I've been riding bikes since the 90's and followed trends/fads/gimmicks across multiple disciplines from BMX, MTB and Road. The issue with cycling is the pursuit of creating a need for the consumer to keep on consuming. Its a nuanced discussion, but ultimately the most important thing to remember is that riding bikes is awesome and the bike you have, whatever its made out of, brings you health, happiness and takes you to amazing places!
I've often thought that if you're a marketing professional and want to test your marketing chops then go work for a bike company where every year you have to convince the public that the bicycle has been reinvented. The past 20 years in cycling has basically been selling changes in aesthetics. Disk brakes maybe the exception.
I ride the ever living sh*t out of my 1998 Merlin Extralight…I get up AND down the hills faster than all my friends. This is with a 10 speed mechanical derailleur w/ rim brakes. I’ve upgraded the cockpit and have kept up with the maintenance replacing stuff as it wears out. I laugh every time my friends try and talk me into buying a new bike. Most of them have multiple bikes and constantly are upgrading to new completes. The best bike is the one you already have. Take care of it, and it will take care of you.
"... free from unwritten rules, and the pressure to conform..." with fully internal cable routing, dropped seat stays, single chainring drivetrain, and fully NON-adjustable bar/stem combo... yeah, totally not conformist to modern-day bike industry marketing trends actually, the one and only thing i see on this bike that's actually not following trendy marketing rules is the standard round seat post and clamp
At least the bar/stem combo will not be mandatory to make the bike functional as with other bike brands where you need to have the same branded stem etc because nothing else will fit the dimensions and forms of the other components.
@ Yep! You can use a regular non integrated bar and stem, or any brand integrated bar and stem or barstem. 31.6 round seatpost, T47 threaded bottom bracket, SRAM UDH. We try and make everything as simple and future proof as possible 🖤
Back in the day when aluminum frames were 🔥 we were all riding on 19-23mm tires @ 120 psi. The harsh feel has now been muted by wider tires and lower psi . . . Full circle . . .
Yeah I’ve got an allow gravel bike running 50mm tyres at 30ish psi. It could be the stiffest thing in the world and it wouldn’t matter with that much pneumatic help.
Ya I feel like the whole bike industry is in a weird place right now. People buying bikes like they're shoes, what do you mean "is aluminum coming back"? Still riding my 2016 roadie just fine
It's a 7005 double butted basic alloy frame with a lot of color choices. Certainly nothing wrong with marketing that but $2k for frame fork and generic seatpost plus $200+4weeks for matching fork is delusional.
the only frame i would buy for over $1k would be a italian steel bike. 2k for an alloy frame is wild. i just built a carbon bike from longteng with custom paint etc, the frame was $700....
Yup my Marin Gestalt is all aluminium and still going strong after 8+ years of gravel + road commutes + cafe rides. It is stiff, but in a good way, any power I put down just picks up immediately.
Thanks for the comment. Note that the frameset includes an ENVE Gravel In-Route carbon fork, carbon seatpost, and custom Cerakote paint with the frame and logo color of your choice 🖤
yeah pretty much with you on this. Retail on that fork is $575....let's pretend the seat post is $125 (a generic carbon post isn't but it gives us a nice round number here)...Professional Ceracoat kit for less than $100 and an AL frame from China for $150. Problem is there's cost to import from China and the overhead of the website and someplace to store frames, gotta pay people to ship them and they do deserve to make a profit here. Sadly $2k is probably the going rate anymore to buy from a smaller company even if the stuff is just factory catalog offerings. Really it shines a light on how good of a deal a frameset like the Giant Revolt Advanced Pro is at $2,400 retail. Full carbon, Giant actually had to pay a team of engineers to design each part, ride quality is fantastic, light as heck, lifetime carbon warranty against ANYTHING happening to it...even in a crash or your garage. Kudos to small companies like Black Heart for giving it a go and trying to make a living.
I’m going full grouch here : I miss the old DK videos. Big rides with the homies, candid takes, real shit. The internet has a gear problem. The amount of generic, show-n-tell reviews has become nauseating. I understand, it’s what pays the bills anymore but god damn it’s mind numbing. Everyone in here either has waaaay too much gear or does not have the means and is just made to dream about it. DGMW that Blackheart is cool as fuck, but so are 100 other gravel bikes on the market. Should I buy them all. Should I spend more time researching than I do riding. Anyway, if you’re still here, I’m just projecting. I’m not a content creator. I’m just a sucker for consumption, so nothing I can do about it. But man, what happened to just riding.
Yo Dustin, love your reply to Steve Bunn,he asked a good question and your response to being burnt out, made me wake up to the amount of work those vids must take out of you Always admired your work,but a deeper appreciation of the input that goes on to produce your content Bigluv bro
@@EverythingsBeenDone I will always appreciate you and the work you put in man. Keep doing it. Everything’s got to change at some point. Your content has always been a huge motivator and inspiration for me and I’m sure many others to get tf out there. You are a real one.
@@EverythingsBeenDone Refreshing honesty! You've got to do what's best for you, and you're still making great content...........Like the previous guy though I loved the old DK group ride videos, but can appreciate the work involved and disruption they must have created on group rides.
I'm intrigued by the comments regarding the wheel set. What is there to maintain? Bearings? Spokes? I'll bet the bearings are a standard size and could easily be replaced if needed. Are the spokes proprietary? What am I missing? If anything else fails, then so be it.
That mechanic is so full of crap. You only paid $480 for the wheelset. If the hub fails buy another wheelset. You will most likely still come out ahead.
Wide tyres and low pressures is what makes the bike feel so good. Early days of aluminium frames we had skinny tyres and 120psi. Carbon fixed that but since the advent of discs the tyre restrictions have been removed and aluminium is really relevant. Awesome looking bike by the way 👍
Same, I think it’s pretentiousness…steal dudes like the idea of being old school, carbon people like to flex their weight weenie wallets. Aluminum is for the average normal person. That being said, I have never broken a steel frame but I have trashed an aluminum one.
Same, but im shallow so I like the appearance of skinnier steel tubes and lugs. And rim brakes are good enough for anything except mtb. I drank the Rivendell koolaid
Going from a 2003 Steel Jamis quest to a 2011 Felt F1 was jarring, not going to lie. The responsiveness alone was shocking. It's definitely not a fair comparison, since I tried a ~2015 Specialized ruby and truly did not like the feel of it whatsoever. Just because it's Carbon doesn't mean it's better.
All internal routing is a deal breaker for me. It's cool the frame is aluminum. But companies coming out trying to charge carbon prices for aluminum? More sketchy moves from bike brands. And they don't even have cable routing for mechanical shifters. Now that there is no external cables, or partially external cables, it takes them less time and costs less money to make the frame, too.
I've recently bought an aluminium gravel bike from German Brand "Standert" just like you I can't feel the difference in responsiveness, comfort and playfulness of the frame compared to my carbon bike. Thant Standert aluminium bike is awesome !! Made me completely rethink my hierarchy of bikes
My brother just got the Standert Kreissage RS in aluminum and loves it…and he knows his stuff. His other bike is actually a titanium Black Heart. Standert doesn’t use 7075 aluminum, their tubing contains Scandium.
I have 3 Superteam wheel sets. No issues, thousands of miles. Can’t speak to product support but they’re not a “no name” brand. They’ve been around a long time and they are great
Aluminum’s bad reputation started when road bikes used 100+ psi tires and especially when starting to use stiff carbon fiber rims with those high psi tires. Now with adventure/gravel bikes using tubeless tires and low (25-50) psi there is way more comfort from either aluminum or carbon wheels. A carbon fork also is more compliant than aluminum.
Big tires and the amount of exposed seatpost (and seatpost material) will have more impact on harsh vs compliant ride than frame material of a double diamond style frame.
I will say, I rode a Six13 and I own multiple CAAD10s and Supersix Evos, all with the same tire and pressure. That Six13 was ridiculously stiff to the point where I was having fillings shaken. The CAAD10 rear end in comparison is plush
I had 2018 Rocky Mountain Blizzard. So stiff you could feel every knob on the tires. At 4 psi. My carbo BMC with 29mm tires at 65psi feels better than it did.
Aluminum has its place as a light weight and affordable frame material. This allows for cheaper bikes. Much needed in parts of the world where even a 1k bike would be considered astronomically expensive.
On the Superteam wheels: 1. Superteam is not, it's a relatively well known brand. I woulnd't be surprised if they actually have good support. 2. I'm willing to bet the bearings are a standard, widely-available size. I'd also bet that it uses DT-Swiss star ratchets like everything else these days. 3. Sealed bearing hubs are generally pretty good for many years no matter what. Long story shop: they'll be fine.
And to be fair, support for DT Swiss wheels in the UK is shite. It is taking 4 weeks for their official UK distributor / service centre to replace my Spokes as they don't stock them. This is on a 4 year old wheel! So long that I have had to buy a cheap wheel while I wait.
Of course. But a bike shop won't tell you that. They will tell you that you need the most expensive wheelset they have on offer to not be a loser and bring it in for full service every 6 months 😂
yeah this is typical bike shop bullshit where they just passive aggressively shit on Chinese wheelsets. superteam and elite wheels have support and are responsive.
Ever wondered why everybody and their brother is making carbon wheels now? Might it be the INSANE profit they generate? Seems to me these wheels are just priced the way they all should be.....
7:30 I can't disagree about most of the problems with fringe brand wheels, except for the bearings. It is extremely likely that they use pretty standard bearings that weren't even designed originally for bikes, meaning that they are widely available, or fairly widely available.
You're basically describing by new/old bike. I took my starter Schwinn road bike (Al frame, carbon fork) and overhauled it. Custom paint job (it's the party piece of the build), cheap Chinese carbon 50mm wheel set for $280, cheap carbon bars, Chinese groupset, 32mm tires, carbon seatpost and that SAME EXACT knock off 3d printed saddle (the one with carbon frame and rails) which I can confirm is amazing. It's rim break with mechanical 11s. I even bought a vinyl printer so I could make my own graphics. I now love the bike I had relegated to indoor training duty, and absolutely cannot wait to show it off this spring. Ballin on a budget. All work done by me with the help of the YT. The vibes are real for me on that Schwinn. I only cost me 3lbs more weight.
I picked up a Ripmo AF recently, and it’s been an incredible ride. It’s really made me rethink the need for carbon frames, especially for mountain biking, even though I consider myself a bit of a weight weenie. For the wheels, I’ve found the perfect balance by sourcing rims from China and having them built locally with quality known hubs and spokes.
Internally routed bikes have been around for years, long before electric group sets existed. Yeah sure its easier to maintain an externally routed cable bike... but the whole point of internally routed cables is to protect the housings and cables from the elements and create a neater overall package. This also helps bring the maintenance interval down overall. So the statement that internally routed bikes are made for electric shifting doesn't make any sense. Internally routed bikes are made for cables and hoses that need to get from A to B and be protected from the elements. Electronic group sets and electric bikes are cool and all, but mechanical group sets and bikes still play a very large role in the industry, similar to how electric vehicles relate to internal combustion vehicles, yeah they seem cool and all, they are new, sexy and the hot trend, but they realistically take up a small percentage of the overall cars in use. ALSO, with the increase in electrical cars and group sets, the right to repair/ ability to repair risk is at threat more now than ever, which could devastate the fix it mentality and allow the use once and throw out culture. This both hurts the end user, mechanics, the industry, the cost of entry and the planet as a whole. Furthermore, to break out the full on hippie logic, take a look at the carbon footprint of building a mechanical AL bike versus a plastic (carbon) electric bike, and relate that to the expected life expectancy of the product. Batteries are a nasty thing when you really dig deep into the resources required to manufacture them, not to mention the inability to recycle them in this country, there are a few places, but it is a very infant process in this day and age, hopefully we get better as time goes on, but the future does not look too bright for that industry. - Long time viewer of your videos, hope this message does not seem to aggressive, i work in the automotive field as an mechanical engineer and think about this type of thing regularly. Funny enough, i ride my AL mechanical internally routed gravel bike to work every day (26 mile round trip) with a road wheelset and a nice set of paniers.
@@spinnetti saddle comfort is so individualistic. My wife is on her 5th and still hasn’t found one that works for her. And that starts to get expensive. I feel very lucky to have found one that works for me. Especially lucky that it only costs $65.
As a bike mechanic from the mid 80s - early 2000s Aluminum frames were way more expensive than steel. I got out of the business for about 10 years as the tech was just getting ridiculous. Getting back into it I saw that Aluminun was cheaper and steel cost a premium over it. I have never been a fan of aluminum bikes, but own 2 because of cost. I think builders have Aluminum dialed right now because they feel better and more importantly, they don't break as easy as they used to. Love the channel btw.
Thumbs up on Aluminum. Totally agree that with 40mm+ tires, frame 'compliance' doesn't matter much, especially at 30 psi. For $1900/frame I would expect hydro-formed tubes. In 2014, I paid $400 for a 61cm AL Scattante cross frame that weighs 1800g. My 61cm Crockett weighs 1581g. The older bike is 2x with a 561% range. The newer bike is 1x with 520% range. Both bikes can use 44mm tires. Explain to me again why this Blackheart Gravel frame is differentiated performance-wise?
For that wheelset comment. Nope. They are fast now. They are UCI now certified as well. They have available suppliers in the US. I have been using then to all my recent local races.
$2K for a frameset only is a bit much, is the USA built frame? Because for a little more I can get an Otso Warakin Steel complete with a GRX build kit. The all road AL is priced better imho. Blackheart use to be out of their bike shop Luft in Venice Beach. They still have the bike shop there to test ride their bikes. You should take a winter trip down here to check their shop out. Plus, my friend's shop, LA Cyclery, that's woman owned & part of the dirt culture.
I’ve heard a lot about the limitations of an aluminum bike, I currently have 4 bikes, an aluminum road, Carbon road, aluminum mountain, carbon gravel. Honestly, I love all of them. I’ve never felt any limitations on the aluminum bikes.
I've actually only owned 3 true road bikes. A steel Lemond, an aluminum Ridley, and a carbon Colnago CLX (the one NOT made in Italy). That Ridley descended like a rocketship. It was so fast. I loved that bike, and it ended up as scrap after I was hit by a car. The Colnago rode like a dream, but the chainstays weren't up for my weight + the bad Montreal roads, so I sold it for cheap to someone that was willing to repair it (I was all-in on cyclocross at the time anyway). Aluminum is a fine material, and with big tyres and a carbon bar like that, there was never any doubt in my mind that that would be a great bike.
I’d love to see you do a “blindfold” test ride between the black heart and the willier!! Same wheels and tires. Same route! Put a visor under your eyes to block which bike your on!! Then be honest!!
Once I discovered steel, I cant ride anything else. My custom Samsara MTB is 8.5 years old, still brings a smile to my face and i will never get rid of it. My gravel is a Soma Wolverine, steel, rides great. It is over 5 years old and im looking at steel builders now to replace it. Steel is real! Long live steel! 😂
Really top end steel bikes are becoming increasingly rare now, so I think lots of people just haven't spent enough time on one to realise how good they are. I also remember how horrible aluminium frames were compared to steel when they 1st turned up on the market. Cannondales were just nasty to ride compared to Tange Prestige frames, jittered all over, but they looked cool, were fairly light, & were priced well. Steel is also far tougher than aluminium or carbon, its just a better material for all but top pros where every ounce counts & bikes are free.
@@JoeyMills-y3v Check out Wilde Bikes here in Minnesota, the high end frames are made in our state. But cro-mo also runs the gamut of ride quality and character. My GT Karakom is a bucking bronco but gives me the super precise handling for tech and skate park , my Surly Troll gets smoother and more efficient the more you load it down, and my lugged Trek 750 makes me feel like I am effortlessly swimming through dirt, gravel and singletrack while keeping me comfy for gravel centuries. I have ridden my friends Crust's, they are so compliant it feels like suspension, little too noodly while pedaling for my taste tho.
Thanks for the comment. Outdated thinking based on aluminum bikes from decades ago. Today with modern aluminum alloys, double-butted tubes, and custom tube molds you can make aluminum frames that have great ride quality. Just like you can make a carbon frame that rides like wood or one that is sublime. It comes down to the design, material, and manufacturing.
Great video, and love the bike! Watching, one thought kept jumping into my head… Perhaps you need to ask where the “aluminum is harsh“ theory came from. Sadly, I’m old enough to remember. Back in the day (a.k.a. the late 1980s / early 1990s), when carbon was just coming to bikes and aluminum was “the thing”, it was all about getting a stiffer bike for better ride quality as compared to the then current standard of skinny (aka flexible) steel tubed frame sets. Add new-school oversized aluminum frame tubing to the then currently in use ultra low volume tires (19c-20c on road; 1.75”-1.9” off road), and voilà… hello super harsh ride. Fast-forward 30 years, with the road/gravel space finally catching up and adopting mtn hike evolutions by swap out rim brakes for disc brakes, allowing for internal rim width expansion, in turn allowing for lightweight / high volume tires on road and gravel bikes, and voilà… good bye super harsh ride. Unconstrained by the UCI’s road and CX rules, mountain bike riders figured out the benefits of large volume tires 15-20 years ago. Roadies and gravel riders (who are mostly road or CX converts, and thus broadly unfamiliar with mtn bike design evolution) are just figuring this out now. Welcome to the future!
I suggest you compare it to the Specialized Crux DSW! Would be very interesting, because the media basically doesn‘t cover the crux dsw at all, even though it‘s a great bike, proven geometry etc. (except pretty cockpit). I love mine :)
I have been wondering about Aluminum for an affordable gravel build. I think the biggest difference between a road bike and a gravel bike is the size of the tires. Larger tires soak up so much of the vibrations that plague a skinny tire aluminum road bike. Although, if priced the same I think Carbon is superior. Metal frames are in theory recyclable but are composed of very specific alloys, 6061 for example is a very exact recipe which I am sure they are reluctant to throw some random bike frame parts into the mix, so its probably made from raw materials. There are processes to recycle carbon fiber by burning off the epoxy which leaves you with a pile of raw carbon fibers that can be used again, but it also requires energy. The only green solution is to go bamboo, and or take extremely good care of your bicycles and replace them only when necessary. Great video! Didn’t mean to be a downer, riding a bike is always much greener than driving a car.
Whenever I read or hear a review of frames, Carbon vs Aluminum vs Steel and read the descriptions. I’m always reminded of snobby wine reviewers talking about how a certain vintage tastes. Something like: “I taste freshness with blueberry notes and just a hint of……..despair.” What we really need is a blindfolded test. So ahhh get on that my man. It would make a great video…….for us. Maybe you can talk Ron into it, that guy’s a trooper, he’s up for anything.😁
Aluminum is more environmentally friendly, which is true. But I think we as a community should talk more about our clothes which are full of PFAS. Your beloved Goretex started it all and now there's this toxic stuff everywhere. And I'm not free of guilt as I have some PFAS rain gear as well, but it's very difficult to find something in the cycling industry which is high quality but free of these chemicals. A carbon frame can easily hold up for a very long time, yes aluminum is better for the environment, but ultimately it's better to only buy a bike when you really need it, not just if you want it.
I ride an Aluminium framed gravel bike from UK brand Mason Cycles. It's a great bike, and certainly not uncomfortable. It's possible to make a good frame that's comfortable and rides well from any of the main bike building materials.
Hey Dustin, I don't ride road, or gravel, but I love your channel. I'm 42. From my early teens through my 30s I rode BMX, specifically skateparks. Those bikes were all 4130 chromoly. I got into MTB about 4 years ago and have had two aluminum bikes. While I imagine that my next build will be steel. It's real. I have to mention that my current aluminum hard tail is a dream to ride. The geometry is aggressive, synonymous with perfect, and the tubing is designed to flex and deaden much of the chatter. I ride it in the skatepark occasionally and definitely feel the flex. Not great. But on the trail it is perfection. The compliant aluminum mixed with the weight savings keeps me from longing too hard for my future steal forever bike. I chose my current bike for the geo and many reviews noting it's "special sauce". I hear that more companies are really trying to tune their aluminum tube thickness and diameter to reduce harshness.
Haha. Carbon isn't evil and has clear advantages in certain applications like you mention. But for the frame aluminum can be superior to carbon in many instances. And if you can reduce your impact then all the better 🖤
I just bought a road Ti from Zack as well. I actually stopped riding my carbon bikes. And I’ve had almost every big name flagship frame. From pinarello to Colnago to factor to Bianchi. I don’t think I’m going back!
I guess gravel frame material matters less than road because the amount of flex the frame provides compared to large tires is a very small amount. I think Peak torque explained it in a video.
Just a heads up for my fellow Clydesdales, I spent some time looking at the Gravel AL today and apparently it's got a 220lbs/100KG weight limit. I asked why and was told it was due to the material they used and should be on the lookout for the Gravel Ti... Sigh, I really wanted to like this one.
Correct. With all materials there are trade offs, and we wanted to make an aluminum frame that rides well meaning thinner tubes for some flex, spring, and compliance. If we made an aluminum frame with a high weight limit then it would require thicker tubes and compromise the ride quality. However, with our Ti frames with similar tube thicknesses we can have beautiful ride quality and a weight limit of 275 lbs. Just the nature of the materials.
I've had a couple of aluminum Cannodale CAAD road bikes that I loved. They were quick and nimble, didn't rust in the Seattle winters, and I didn't notice that they were harsh. My only problem with aluminum is that I've only cracked or broke an aluminum frame. I don't tend to be that guy that's always breaking bike parts, but I cracked the headtube of a Yeti DH303, and snapped the rear triangle of a Foes mountain bike. Maybe aluminum has a shorter shelf life? Cool bike build. Would love a long term review on the Apex AXS stuff
Back in 2001, I bought an all-aluminum Bianchi, with a ChroMoly fork and seat post, and I commuted on it for several years. At one point, I calculated that I put about 12k miles on that bike. Then in 2011, I replaced it with a Specialized that still had an aluminum frame, but had a carbon fork and carbon seat post, and that made an absolute world of difference. It got me probably 80% of the ride quality of the two all-carbon bikes I've had since then - one with aluminum wheels, and the newest with carbon wheels. Each step up the food chain has made a noticeable difference in ride quality, but for sure the biggest bang for your buck is getting a carbon fork and seat post - I think that makes an aluminum frame totally reasonable by modern ride quality standards
What do I think about aluminum? Love 'modern' aluminum and own it on two bikes, one a Specialized Allez roadbike and one a Cannondale 29'er hardtail. Honestly, I notice no difference in ride quality compared to my other Specialized carbon roadbike. Further? The wider the tire, the less frame material matters in ride quality. If building a pure climbing bike, carbon has the edge in weight. Btw, I have owned all materials and prefer Aluminum to steel and Titanium and if the frame designer is adept, he can tune an Aluminum frame give it a very lively feel. I am older than you and a mechanical engineer and could go into some of the physics why 'new' aluminum is so good like weld abuttment and hydroforming, but your channel subscribers can find that elsewhere on the web. Lower pencil seatstays on your frame also help with rear triangle compliance, now common on many aluminum bike frames. Many won't understand this comment but some will. Frame section modulus aka localized moment of inertia trumps frame material modulus of elasticity in terms of ride quality and stiffness in the right places. In other words, frame geometry can compensate for Aluminum to mimic the ride of carbon or very close by frame tubing section shape. Difference in modulus and yield strength can be adjusted by material thickness and tubing cross-section. Hydroforming Aluminum has changed the game. If you put an Aluminum and Carbon bike side by side, this is why the look so similar...but the Aluminum frame tubing material will be thicker because it isn't as strong and the reason it isn't stiffer is because Aluminum is more flexible than carbon fiber. The reason why the 'stiffness' mantra has hung around is because you need 'more volume of Aluminum' compared to carbon fiber to make the frame 'strong enough'. Aluminum fails in tension before carbon pulls apart. Thicker Aluminum tube sections make an Aluminum bike slightly heavier than carbon fiber and you need that Aluminum tube material thickness for 'strength'. Tube flexibility can be adjusted like how Cannondale did it in the old days that rode like a gravel truck...in their early CAAD series. Late model Al CAAD frames ride nice just like the Aluminum Synapse. Nice build and 'you get it'. Well done.
I guess I fallen into the camp that aluminum is harsh and all the other bad things said about it. The fact that it’s recyclable is a big bonus, hey you may be riding on somebody’s old beer cans, lol. I’ve gone to steel, and the frame was made in Austin, Tx.. Steel is also recyclable over and over like aluminum. Like you I’m riding a frame material that is likely recycled. Enjoy the ride.
Aluminum got a bad name because carbon does tend to ride better if all things are equal. But by the time you add carbon wheels and premium tires aluminum's durability far outshines the small gains the average rider gets in a slightly lighter bike. I traded my Trek sl5 in for a al5 added 2 pounds but am glad that I made the swap. Lifetime warranty on the frame and piece of mind. haha I ride for fun and fitness not to go pro.
I have a CAAD 13 and a SuperSix and the CAAD 13 is a darn good and responsive road bike. Not better than the SuperSix, but you can get a lot of performance out of an alu bike. Great videos!
I remember when aluminum was the prized frame material. I have nothing against riding an aluminum bike again. I am kind of curious about the environmental impact of carbon frame manufacturing. That I’ll have to look into.
I’ve been eyeing an all road ti from black heart. But, I love all black bikes, so if the Alu one rides just as nice, I may get that to keep the cost down a little bit, and get their second wheel set option.
Aluminum is the bomb. I love mid tier bikes so I’ve had a few aluminum bikes over the years and I kinda like them more. Put some nice tires on and let it buck. I also just bought a Ron’s bike alumamax gravel bike with steel fork. All built it’s around that 22lbs mark and it’s a sweet ride. USA made and way under the 2k mark. Good video.
Aluminum frames are harsher than carbon ones (assuming the carbon one was made for compliance, instead of maximal aero or something), but that difference is a lot less noticeable when you run wider tires. Put on some 25mm tires, pump them to 110PSI, then test which frame feels more tiring, lol. But, if you are putting on big chunky tires, probably aluminum will feel almost the same as carbon.
I have a Mason Cycles Bokeh for 4 years and this bike is amazing! Unfortunately this model has 42mm tyre clearance which for 2024 standards is limited, but I love this bike and have done very long amazing rides with it. It’s a UK brand and they do amazing stuff
I’m not sure what year you think this is. Aluminum bikes haven’t necessarily been “stiff” (harsh?) or “uninspiring” for quite some time. Manufacturers have been hydroforming aluminum for bicycle frames since 2003 or so. I ride a 2017 BMC ALR01 which is very comfortable/compliant - despite riding in Queens, NYC on some lousy road surfaces - yet stiff in all the right places, and fast after adding Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels. The whole bike with Shimano 105-5800 cost me $1100 in 2017 - a great value.
People saying $2k for a frame being a lot is in reference to a gravel to road frame right? Because for an aluminum mountain bike, $2k is pretty damn reasonable
I bet the big 45c tires (& Carbon rims/wheels, bar/stem, fork, and seat post all also) 'help' the frame, to not make the ride feel too harsh ... Aluminum's harshness is/was especially felt (back) on road bikes with 23c tires, and/or bikes accompanied with other mostly alloy parts too. That's a sweet bike! (I see on their website it's built for and you can also spec it with the short travel gavel forks too) honestly wasn't familiar with this bike brand, looked them up, really cool looking and quality stuff, also cool they're in Truckee. And as always great video Dustin, keep em coming!
I'm a heavier rider. 100kg and can't afford a new bike every 2nd year. Seen too many failures with Carbon so my mountain bike as well as road are both Aluminium. My gravel build will be much like yours as well. I guess I'm also not a good enough rider to feel or get any benefits from carbon.
Once you put on 40+mm tyres there is no discernible compliance difference between carbon, alloy, Ti, steel. I’ve had them all. Only thing that matters is geo. Plus weight if that’s important to you.
My main road bike (50mm carbon wheels w/ 25mm tires) is aluminum, my gravel bike (38mm carbon wheels/tires and widths vary) is titanium, my mountain bike (AL rims w/ 29x2.6" tires) is aluminum, and my trainer bike is carbon fiber. With that being said, my trainer bike (Ridley Fenix SL) with 30mm tires on it out on the road is like riding a Cadillac in the comfort/smoothness department on rough roads. My titanium gravel bike on rough gravel terrain feels no different than any other frame material (i.e. beats the crap out of me). My road bike is comfortable on good/decent roads, but still snappy/responsive.
@@blackheartbikeco 7005 is inferior to 6061 in every way. More expensive to work with, anodizing, heat treatment and welding needs more precision. Offers nothing over 6061 at bike level tube thickness. Funny hearing cheaper from you when you outsource to China where workrs being paid nothing.
my Mommy bike is a hearty and proven AL hybrid. It tows. Offroad. It's comfy. It won't rust. It doesn't weigh a ton. I have a lithe lugged vintage touring bike, a burly Ti gravel rando, a beast of a carbon MTB and this do almost all AL mommy bike which I also love. Hype is hype. Don't like rust? you have options. don't like weight? you have options.
I'll tell you what I think about aluminium. It's great! My hardtail mtb (Ragley big al) has alot of compliance built in and it is super "comfy"! Aluminium can be very harsh and very comfortable 🤷🏻♂️
I used to have an aluminum Bombtrack that I used for gravel riding some pretty rough stuff and it was surprisingly smooth for what I expected for aluminum. And pretty light to boot.
Love it❤. I like aluminum, my Jamis Supernova is an aluminum frame with carbon fork and wishbone carbon seatstays. It rides real nice as an all road cyclocross/gravel/fall and winter bike. This bike of yours intrigues me. Please ride those wheels until they fail and we’ll get the autopsy from you. I wish the Blackheart could run 2 X however. I definitely would consider getting one!
AWESOME steed. I would LOVE to barrow the bike and put it thru some test here in Michigan, in Detroit and everywhere between. Just saying that would be awesome. 😉
I've been rocking my allez sprint for everything from hard road tours to gravel adventures to crit racing. It rips and I've never been left wanting! Aluminum is performant, sustainable, and more durable. My next bike will def be alu. It's really cool to see these sorts of companies getting showcased. We need higher end aluminum bikes with all the benefits of modern standards. (Saw some guy complaining about dropped seat stays lol, they're not just trends) Other cool brands to check out are trek with their emonda, standert, and fairlight :)
I have been riding aluminum on my road bike for 9 years and it is awesome. I tried carbon but preferred the feedback received from aluminum. Plus, the entire bike only cost $1600 with an Ultegra groupset!
Back in the day, before suspension , we rode aluminum Cannondales and Klein with big tires and they were great. It’s no surprise to me with big tires and low pressure that it’s a nice ride.
Love the bike build, its tempting me to now build a gravel bike. Regarding the wheelset spares, sealed bearings will be the most common thing to go and they are easily obtained as the spec is usually etched on the bearings an d if not then dimension specs is second step. Spokes are an easy match up too. I had no probs getting spares for my Chinese carbon wheels.
Confused… stoked about recycling aluminum but puts all carbon components on? Also mechanical shifting works fine on internal routing. Pretty sure this exact frame is sold on Temu for $250
Thanks for the comment. We believe in the right material for the right application. At times carbon is the superior material. At other times aluminum. And just like riding a bike to work when you own car is a great thing, incorporating aluminum when possible is a great idea. And no, this frame is not sold on Temu for $250. Our frames are designed and tested at our shop in Northern CA, manufactured to our spec in our partner factories, and independently tested to CPSC 1512 and ISO 4210 standards in Southern CA 👍👍
The aluminium frame is very reliable on long rides. Your not gonna worry if u crash it, durable. You got a peace of mind. And, of course to go faster, you need lots of practice...🙂👍🚴♂️
Carbon has caused many companies to reevaluate aluminum and up there game using new manufacturing methods, and are producing high end aluminum bikes and components with great ride quality while approaching a similar weight and ride characteristics of carbon, the specialized chisel comes to mind, as well as some cannondale roadbikes. Some race teams are using aluminum wheel sets again for their ride quality, and they're less likely to catastrophically fail. However I still feel "steel is real"
🔴 SCRAM CAP: bit.ly/EBD__Gear_Shop
You should try the day saver multi tool it super light and really small 👌
Gloves and shoes please???
I've been riding bikes since the 90's and followed trends/fads/gimmicks across multiple disciplines from BMX, MTB and Road. The issue with cycling is the pursuit of creating a need for the consumer to keep on consuming. Its a nuanced discussion, but ultimately the most important thing to remember is that riding bikes is awesome and the bike you have, whatever its made out of, brings you health, happiness and takes you to amazing places!
Strong comment. Absolutely agree. Dont buy bikes.
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I've often thought that if you're a marketing professional and want to test your marketing chops then go work for a bike company where every year you have to convince the public that the bicycle has been reinvented. The past 20 years in cycling has basically been selling changes in aesthetics. Disk brakes maybe the exception.
@@LeonForsterHulst ride what you got!
I ride the ever living sh*t out of my 1998 Merlin Extralight…I get up AND down the hills faster than all my friends. This is with a 10 speed mechanical derailleur w/ rim brakes. I’ve upgraded the cockpit and have kept up with the maintenance replacing stuff as it wears out. I laugh every time my friends try and talk me into buying a new bike. Most of them have multiple bikes and constantly are upgrading to new completes. The best bike is the one you already have. Take care of it, and it will take care of you.
"... free from unwritten rules, and the pressure to conform..." with fully internal cable routing, dropped seat stays, single chainring drivetrain, and fully NON-adjustable bar/stem combo... yeah, totally not conformist to modern-day bike industry marketing trends
actually, the one and only thing i see on this bike that's actually not following trendy marketing rules is the standard round seat post and clamp
Not talking about the bike. Talking about the rider 🖤
It has Ritchey bottle cages.
@@gregoryneal2852 *carbon i think...
At least the bar/stem combo will not be mandatory to make the bike functional as with other bike brands where you need to have the same branded stem etc because nothing else will fit the dimensions and forms of the other components.
@ Yep! You can use a regular non integrated bar and stem, or any brand integrated bar and stem or barstem. 31.6 round seatpost, T47 threaded bottom bracket, SRAM UDH. We try and make everything as simple and future proof as possible 🖤
I feel like Aluminum frames are highly underrated, but there’s zero chance I would spend 2k on one in 2024.
Back in the day when aluminum frames were 🔥 we were all riding on 19-23mm tires @ 120 psi. The harsh feel has now been muted by wider tires and lower psi . . . Full circle . . .
Amen to that !
Yeah I’ve got an allow gravel bike running 50mm tyres at 30ish psi. It could be the stiffest thing in the world and it wouldn’t matter with that much pneumatic help.
2k for a Taiwan made aluminum frame is just bonkers. You can get a complete Marin for that and it rips just as much.
Ya I feel like the whole bike industry is in a weird place right now. People buying bikes like they're shoes, what do you mean "is aluminum coming back"? Still riding my 2016 roadie just fine
It's a 7005 double butted basic alloy frame with a lot of color choices. Certainly nothing wrong with marketing that but $2k for frame fork and generic seatpost plus $200+4weeks for matching fork is delusional.
the only frame i would buy for over $1k would be a italian steel bike. 2k for an alloy frame is wild. i just built a carbon bike from longteng with custom paint etc, the frame was $700....
@@eto2352 every little hipster brand wants you to think their stuff is special when it isn't at all...
Yup my Marin Gestalt is all aluminium and still going strong after 8+ years of gravel + road commutes + cafe rides. It is stiff, but in a good way, any power I put down just picks up immediately.
No way can anyone of any experience level convince me this frameset is worth $2k...
Thanks for the comment. Note that the frameset includes an ENVE Gravel In-Route carbon fork, carbon seatpost, and custom Cerakote paint with the frame and logo color of your choice 🖤
Also no way can anyone convince me a S-Works frame can worth $6K either. 😅
Yes, not even close to 2k
yeah pretty much with you on this. Retail on that fork is $575....let's pretend the seat post is $125 (a generic carbon post isn't but it gives us a nice round number here)...Professional Ceracoat kit for less than $100 and an AL frame from China for $150. Problem is there's cost to import from China and the overhead of the website and someplace to store frames, gotta pay people to ship them and they do deserve to make a profit here. Sadly $2k is probably the going rate anymore to buy from a smaller company even if the stuff is just factory catalog offerings. Really it shines a light on how good of a deal a frameset like the Giant Revolt Advanced Pro is at $2,400 retail. Full carbon, Giant actually had to pay a team of engineers to design each part, ride quality is fantastic, light as heck, lifetime carbon warranty against ANYTHING happening to it...even in a crash or your garage.
Kudos to small companies like Black Heart for giving it a go and trying to make a living.
@@blackheartbikeco Enve is just a rip-off, not much better than cheaper brands...
I’m going full grouch here : I miss the old DK videos. Big rides with the homies, candid takes, real shit. The internet has a gear problem. The amount of generic, show-n-tell reviews has become nauseating. I understand, it’s what pays the bills anymore but god damn it’s mind numbing.
Everyone in here either has waaaay too much gear or does not have the means and is just made to dream about it.
DGMW that Blackheart is cool as fuck, but so are 100 other gravel bikes on the market. Should I buy them all. Should I spend more time researching than I do riding.
Anyway, if you’re still here, I’m just projecting. I’m not a content creator. I’m just a sucker for consumption, so nothing I can do about it. But man, what happened to just riding.
I got burned out on all the ride videos.
Plus’s not as many views.
@@EverythingsBeenDone That’s the most honest reply I’ve ever seen 👍 Thanks for all you do.
Yo Dustin, love your reply to Steve Bunn,he asked a good question and your response to being burnt out, made me wake up to the amount of work those vids must take out of you
Always admired your work,but a deeper appreciation of the input that goes on to produce your content
Bigluv bro
@@EverythingsBeenDone I will always appreciate you and the work you put in man. Keep doing it. Everything’s got to change at some point. Your content has always been a huge motivator and inspiration for me and I’m sure many others to get tf out there. You are a real one.
@@EverythingsBeenDone Refreshing honesty! You've got to do what's best for you, and you're still making great content...........Like the previous guy though I loved the old DK group ride videos, but can appreciate the work involved and disruption they must have created on group rides.
I'm intrigued by the comments regarding the wheel set. What is there to maintain? Bearings? Spokes? I'll bet the bearings are a standard size and could easily be replaced if needed. Are the spokes proprietary? What am I missing? If anything else fails, then so be it.
That mechanic is so full of crap. You only paid $480 for the wheelset. If the hub fails buy another wheelset. You will most likely still come out ahead.
Ive put nearly 10k miles on alluminium Allez Sprint the last two years and I love it, No notes
Wide tyres and low pressures is what makes the bike feel so good. Early days of aluminium frames we had skinny tyres and 120psi. Carbon fixed that but since the advent of discs the tyre restrictions have been removed and aluminium is really relevant. Awesome looking bike by the way 👍
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2k puts you in gucci steel frame territory
I like the way you’re thinking 😉
@@EverythingsBeenDone and also - I have NEVER had an AL MTB frame that didnt crack at some point...
and I have had many many
Steel frames can be awesome, but offering a high end aluminum alternative is our goal 🖤
@@blackheartbikeco”high end aluminum “ 😂😂😂😂
I’ve ridden steel, carbon and aluminium bikes…they all felt good…perhaps I’m not discerning enough 🤷🏻♂️
Same, I think it’s pretentiousness…steal dudes like the idea of being old school, carbon people like to flex their weight weenie wallets. Aluminum is for the average normal person. That being said, I have never broken a steel frame but I have trashed an aluminum one.
Same, but im shallow so I like the appearance of skinnier steel tubes and lugs. And rim brakes are good enough for anything except mtb. I drank the Rivendell koolaid
Because there is 0 perceivable difference and people like to believe myths. Always have and always will lol
Going from a 2003 Steel Jamis quest to a 2011 Felt F1 was jarring, not going to lie. The responsiveness alone was shocking. It's definitely not a fair comparison, since I tried a ~2015 Specialized ruby and truly did not like the feel of it whatsoever. Just because it's Carbon doesn't mean it's better.
All internal routing is a deal breaker for me. It's cool the frame is aluminum. But companies coming out trying to charge carbon prices for aluminum? More sketchy moves from bike brands. And they don't even have cable routing for mechanical shifters. Now that there is no external cables, or partially external cables, it takes them less time and costs less money to make the frame, too.
I detest internal routing !
I've recently bought an aluminium gravel bike from German Brand "Standert" just like you I can't feel the difference in responsiveness, comfort and playfulness of the frame compared to my carbon bike. Thant Standert aluminium bike is awesome !! Made me completely rethink my hierarchy of bikes
I ride a Liteville😃
My brother just got the Standert Kreissage RS in aluminum and loves it…and he knows his stuff. His other bike is actually a titanium Black Heart. Standert doesn’t use 7075 aluminum, their tubing contains Scandium.
frame material's effect on ride quality is so over stated. your tires, seat, grips, and suspension reduce vibration FAR more than frame material
I have 3 Superteam wheel sets. No issues, thousands of miles. Can’t speak to product support but they’re not a “no name” brand. They’ve been around a long time and they are great
I appreciate reading this. Thanks for the report
Aluminum’s bad reputation started when road bikes used 100+ psi tires and especially when starting to use stiff carbon fiber rims with those high psi tires. Now with adventure/gravel bikes using tubeless tires and low (25-50) psi there is way more comfort from either aluminum or carbon wheels. A carbon fork also is more compliant than aluminum.
I've been riding Superteam wheels, rim brake, for 4 years. I love them. Zero problems.
This is what Im talking about! Thank you for the real world insights
When we said alu was harsh maybe it was a mix of the frame and probably the tiny tires we used to run at like 180psi.
Big tires and the amount of exposed seatpost (and seatpost material) will have more impact on harsh vs compliant ride than frame material of a double diamond style frame.
I will say, I rode a Six13 and I own multiple CAAD10s and Supersix Evos, all with the same tire and pressure. That Six13 was ridiculously stiff to the point where I was having fillings shaken.
The CAAD10 rear end in comparison is plush
I had 2018 Rocky Mountain Blizzard. So stiff you could feel every knob on the tires. At 4 psi. My carbo BMC with 29mm tires at 65psi feels better than it did.
And what else?
No it's always felt harsh 😂
Aluminum has its place as a light weight and affordable frame material. This allows for cheaper bikes. Much needed in parts of the world where even a 1k bike would be considered astronomically expensive.
meanwhile broh goes ahead and pay 2000 for an aluminum frame lol
The whole frame have like 40€ worth of aluminium in it.
geometry is more important than frame material
Along with a proper fit. Nothing wrong with carbon, but it is overpriced and overrated.
On the Superteam wheels: 1. Superteam is not, it's a relatively well known brand. I woulnd't be surprised if they actually have good support. 2. I'm willing to bet the bearings are a standard, widely-available size. I'd also bet that it uses DT-Swiss star ratchets like everything else these days. 3. Sealed bearing hubs are generally pretty good for many years no matter what. Long story shop: they'll be fine.
And to be fair, support for DT Swiss wheels in the UK is shite. It is taking 4 weeks for their official UK distributor / service centre to replace my Spokes as they don't stock them. This is on a 4 year old wheel! So long that I have had to buy a cheap wheel while I wait.
Of course. But a bike shop won't tell you that. They will tell you that you need the most expensive wheelset they have on offer to not be a loser and bring it in for full service every 6 months 😂
yeah this is typical bike shop bullshit where they just passive aggressively shit on Chinese wheelsets. superteam and elite wheels have support and are responsive.
Ever wondered why everybody and their brother is making carbon wheels now? Might it be the INSANE profit they generate? Seems to me these wheels are just priced the way they all should be.....
@@Nintendo0994 they want to sell you stuff they get margin on 😂
7:30 I can't disagree about most of the problems with fringe brand wheels, except for the bearings. It is extremely likely that they use pretty standard bearings that weren't even designed originally for bikes, meaning that they are widely available, or fairly widely available.
You're basically describing by new/old bike. I took my starter Schwinn road bike (Al frame, carbon fork) and overhauled it. Custom paint job (it's the party piece of the build), cheap Chinese carbon 50mm wheel set for $280, cheap carbon bars, Chinese groupset, 32mm tires, carbon seatpost and that SAME EXACT knock off 3d printed saddle (the one with carbon frame and rails) which I can confirm is amazing. It's rim break with mechanical 11s. I even bought a vinyl printer so I could make my own graphics. I now love the bike I had relegated to indoor training duty, and absolutely cannot wait to show it off this spring. Ballin on a budget. All work done by me with the help of the YT. The vibes are real for me on that Schwinn. I only cost me 3lbs more weight.
I picked up a Ripmo AF recently, and it’s been an incredible ride. It’s really made me rethink the need for carbon frames, especially for mountain biking, even though I consider myself a bit of a weight weenie. For the wheels, I’ve found the perfect balance by sourcing rims from China and having them built locally with quality known hubs and spokes.
Internally routed bikes have been around for years, long before electric group sets existed. Yeah sure its easier to maintain an externally routed cable bike... but the whole point of internally routed cables is to protect the housings and cables from the elements and create a neater overall package. This also helps bring the maintenance interval down overall. So the statement that internally routed bikes are made for electric shifting doesn't make any sense. Internally routed bikes are made for cables and hoses that need to get from A to B and be protected from the elements. Electronic group sets and electric bikes are cool and all, but mechanical group sets and bikes still play a very large role in the industry, similar to how electric vehicles relate to internal combustion vehicles, yeah they seem cool and all, they are new, sexy and the hot trend, but they realistically take up a small percentage of the overall cars in use. ALSO, with the increase in electrical cars and group sets, the right to repair/ ability to repair risk is at threat more now than ever, which could devastate the fix it mentality and allow the use once and throw out culture. This both hurts the end user, mechanics, the industry, the cost of entry and the planet as a whole. Furthermore, to break out the full on hippie logic, take a look at the carbon footprint of building a mechanical AL bike versus a plastic (carbon) electric bike, and relate that to the expected life expectancy of the product. Batteries are a nasty thing when you really dig deep into the resources required to manufacture them, not to mention the inability to recycle them in this country, there are a few places, but it is a very infant process in this day and age, hopefully we get better as time goes on, but the future does not look too bright for that industry. - Long time viewer of your videos, hope this message does not seem to aggressive, i work in the automotive field as an mechanical engineer and think about this type of thing regularly. Funny enough, i ride my AL mechanical internally routed gravel bike to work every day (26 mile round trip) with a road wheelset and a nice set of paniers.
this is such a great channel. love this dudes glases :DDDDD
liking the product review videos very much! more of these, less races/events lol
I just bought my 2nd aliexpress fake saddle. I absolutely love that thing. Thank you again for that recommendation!
I got one too, but it wasn't as comfortable as the basic saddle that came with my bike.
@@spinnetti saddle comfort is so individualistic. My wife is on her 5th and still hasn’t found one that works for her. And that starts to get expensive. I feel very lucky to have found one that works for me. Especially lucky that it only costs $65.
@@rug212are you able to share a link to it or otherwise share the seller/name so I can find it?
I have the real one, have you compared? Thinking about buying the fake one for my gravel bike
@@rug212Get your wife a proper bike fit. My saddle was uncomfortable until i found out my saddle is 1.5 cm too high
As a bike mechanic from the mid 80s - early 2000s Aluminum frames were way more expensive than steel. I got out of the business for about 10 years as the tech was just getting ridiculous. Getting back into it I saw that Aluminun was cheaper and steel cost a premium over it. I have never been a fan of aluminum bikes, but own 2 because of cost. I think builders have Aluminum dialed right now because they feel better and more importantly, they don't break as easy as they used to. Love the channel btw.
Been riding for real since 1999. The only frames I’ve ever broken have been aluminum.
I’m 6’6 and 230lbs.
Carbon has payed out well for me.
Thumbs up on Aluminum. Totally agree that with 40mm+ tires, frame 'compliance' doesn't matter much, especially at 30 psi. For $1900/frame I would expect hydro-formed tubes. In 2014, I paid $400 for a 61cm AL Scattante cross frame that weighs 1800g. My 61cm Crockett weighs 1581g. The older bike is 2x with a 561% range. The newer bike is 1x with 520% range. Both bikes can use 44mm tires. Explain to me again why this Blackheart Gravel frame is differentiated performance-wise?
I don’t think DK needs to explain anything to you. You should just go back to 2014 and keep buying $400 frames.
Got a TI from Blackheart and really like that. Happy that they keep it good to all of their frames.
🖤🖤🖤
It’s not all about the frame material, but rather, the frame design that makes how a bike feels.
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It would be interesting for a comparison between this frame and your aluminum Canyon
I was thinking the exact same thing I appreciate this comment because it helps encourage me to actually do it
Pretty cool idea Dustin! My second bike is aluminum too with carbon fork and I too just use it as something to experiment with.
I’ve got two bikes with internal routed mechanical and they’re completely fine-shift great no issues. Not sure why that’s “not advised”
You can build with mechanical 1x. Using a flexi section of Jagwire cable housing (which we include) solves the problem
It's probably not advised because changing the cables is a much bigger hassle with fully internal
@@youdontgettoknowthat1928 mountain bikes have been doing it for years!
Dude, I ride flat bar big tires but I love your channel and I watch in a religious fashion solely because your attitude is correct. Don't go changin'.
🤜❤️🤛
For that wheelset comment. Nope. They are fast now. They are UCI now certified as well. They have available suppliers in the US. I have been using then to all my recent local races.
This is great to know! thanks for the update.
$2K for a frameset only is a bit much, is the USA built frame? Because for a little more I can get an Otso Warakin Steel complete with a GRX build kit. The all road AL is priced better imho. Blackheart use to be out of their bike shop Luft in Venice Beach. They still have the bike shop there to test ride their bikes. You should take a winter trip down here to check their shop out. Plus, my friend's shop, LA Cyclery, that's woman owned & part of the dirt culture.
I don't think these are USA made, they'd be flexing that in all their marketing material if it was, and they don't.
I’ve heard a lot about the limitations of an aluminum bike, I currently have 4 bikes, an aluminum road, Carbon road, aluminum mountain, carbon gravel. Honestly, I love all of them. I’ve never felt any limitations on the aluminum bikes.
Glad to hear all the fun facts about aluminum. It’s a good looking whip too. 👌
Stoked you like those bits about aluminum Teve I was also very surprised by them
I've actually only owned 3 true road bikes. A steel Lemond, an aluminum Ridley, and a carbon Colnago CLX (the one NOT made in Italy). That Ridley descended like a rocketship. It was so fast. I loved that bike, and it ended up as scrap after I was hit by a car. The Colnago rode like a dream, but the chainstays weren't up for my weight + the bad Montreal roads, so I sold it for cheap to someone that was willing to repair it (I was all-in on cyclocross at the time anyway).
Aluminum is a fine material, and with big tyres and a carbon bar like that, there was never any doubt in my mind that that would be a great bike.
I’d love to see you do a “blindfold” test ride between the black heart and the willier!! Same wheels and tires. Same route! Put a visor under your eyes to block which bike your on!! Then be honest!!
Once I discovered steel, I cant ride anything else. My custom Samsara MTB is 8.5 years old, still brings a smile to my face and i will never get rid of it. My gravel is a Soma Wolverine, steel, rides great. It is over 5 years old and im looking at steel builders now to replace it.
Steel is real! Long live steel! 😂
Really top end steel bikes are becoming increasingly rare now, so I think lots of people just haven't spent enough time on one to realise how good they are. I also remember how horrible aluminium frames were compared to steel when they 1st turned up on the market. Cannondales were just nasty to ride compared to Tange Prestige frames, jittered all over, but they looked cool, were fairly light, & were priced well. Steel is also far tougher than aluminium or carbon, its just a better material for all but top pros where every ounce counts & bikes are free.
@@JoeyMills-y3v Check out Wilde Bikes here in Minnesota, the high end frames are made in our state. But cro-mo also runs the gamut of ride quality and character. My GT Karakom is a bucking bronco but gives me the super precise handling for tech and skate park , my Surly Troll gets smoother and more efficient the more you load it down, and my lugged Trek 750 makes me feel like I am effortlessly swimming through dirt, gravel and singletrack while keeping me comfy for gravel centuries. I have ridden my friends Crust's, they are so compliant it feels like suspension, little too noodly while pedaling for my taste tho.
Doesn't aluminum have next to zero compliance when going over bumps? Isn't it generally uncomfortable compared to a carbon bike?
Thanks for the comment. Outdated thinking based on aluminum bikes from decades ago. Today with modern aluminum alloys, double-butted tubes, and custom tube molds you can make aluminum frames that have great ride quality. Just like you can make a carbon frame that rides like wood or one that is sublime. It comes down to the design, material, and manufacturing.
Great video, and love the bike! Watching, one thought kept jumping into my head…
Perhaps you need to ask where the “aluminum is harsh“ theory came from.
Sadly, I’m old enough to remember. Back in the day (a.k.a. the late 1980s / early 1990s), when carbon was just coming to bikes and aluminum was “the thing”, it was all about getting a stiffer bike for better ride quality as compared to the then current standard of skinny (aka flexible) steel tubed frame sets. Add new-school oversized aluminum frame tubing to the then currently in use ultra low volume tires (19c-20c on road; 1.75”-1.9” off road), and voilà… hello super harsh ride.
Fast-forward 30 years, with the road/gravel space finally catching up and adopting mtn hike evolutions by swap out rim brakes for disc brakes, allowing for internal rim width expansion, in turn allowing for lightweight / high volume tires on road and gravel bikes, and voilà… good bye super harsh ride.
Unconstrained by the UCI’s road and CX rules, mountain bike riders figured out the benefits of large volume tires 15-20 years ago. Roadies and gravel riders (who are mostly road or CX converts, and thus broadly unfamiliar with mtn bike design evolution) are just figuring this out now.
Welcome to the future!
I suggest you compare it to the Specialized Crux DSW! Would be very interesting, because the media basically doesn‘t cover the crux dsw at all, even though it‘s a great bike, proven geometry etc. (except pretty cockpit).
I love mine :)
I have been wondering about Aluminum for an affordable gravel build. I think the biggest difference between a road bike and a gravel bike is the size of the tires. Larger tires soak up so much of the vibrations that plague a skinny tire aluminum road bike. Although, if priced the same I think Carbon is superior. Metal frames are in theory recyclable but are composed of very specific alloys, 6061 for example is a very exact recipe which I am sure they are reluctant to throw some random bike frame parts into the mix, so its probably made from raw materials. There are processes to recycle carbon fiber by burning off the epoxy which leaves you with a pile of raw carbon fibers that can be used again, but it also requires energy. The only green solution is to go bamboo, and or take extremely good care of your bicycles and replace them only when necessary. Great video! Didn’t mean to be a downer, riding a bike is always much greener than driving a car.
Whenever I read or hear a review of frames, Carbon vs Aluminum vs Steel and read the descriptions. I’m always reminded of snobby wine reviewers talking about how a certain vintage tastes. Something like: “I taste freshness with blueberry notes and just a hint of……..despair.” What we really need is a blindfolded test. So ahhh get on that my man. It would make a great video…….for us. Maybe you can talk Ron into it, that guy’s a trooper, he’s up for anything.😁
Aluminum is more environmentally friendly, which is true.
But I think we as a community should talk more about our clothes which are full of PFAS.
Your beloved Goretex started it all and now there's this toxic stuff everywhere. And I'm not free of guilt as I have some PFAS rain gear as well, but it's very difficult to find something in the cycling industry which is high quality but free of these chemicals.
A carbon frame can easily hold up for a very long time, yes aluminum is better for the environment, but ultimately it's better to only buy a bike when you really need it, not just if you want it.
That's some serious schizzle Yo. Time to rethink my frame snobbery. Nice review Amigo!
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I ride an Aluminium framed gravel bike from UK brand Mason Cycles. It's a great bike, and certainly not uncomfortable. It's possible to make a good frame that's comfortable and rides well from any of the main bike building materials.
Hey Dustin, I don't ride road, or gravel, but I love your channel. I'm 42. From my early teens through my 30s I rode BMX, specifically skateparks. Those bikes were all 4130 chromoly. I got into MTB about 4 years ago and have had two aluminum bikes. While I imagine that my next build will be steel. It's real. I have to mention that my current aluminum hard tail is a dream to ride. The geometry is aggressive, synonymous with perfect, and the tubing is designed to flex and deaden much of the chatter. I ride it in the skatepark occasionally and definitely feel the flex. Not great. But on the trail it is perfection. The compliant aluminum mixed with the weight savings keeps me from longing too hard for my future steal forever bike. I chose my current bike for the geo and many reviews noting it's "special sauce". I hear that more companies are really trying to tune their aluminum tube thickness and diameter to reduce harshness.
Talks about recyclability of aluminum as opposed to carbon. Proceeds with carbon fork, bars, wheels, seatpost and saddle.
Haha. Carbon isn't evil and has clear advantages in certain applications like you mention. But for the frame aluminum can be superior to carbon in many instances. And if you can reduce your impact then all the better 🖤
@@trilitronikas so do you ride an aluminum or glass saddle?
I just bought a road Ti from Zack as well. I actually stopped riding my carbon bikes. And I’ve had almost every big name flagship frame. From pinarello to Colnago to factor to Bianchi. I don’t think I’m going back!
Thanks for being part of the fam 🖤
@ thank you I’m super happy with my bike frame. Love the aesthetics and the ride quality and performance. She’s fast!
I guess gravel frame material matters less than road because the amount of flex the frame provides compared to large tires is a very small amount. I think Peak torque explained it in a video.
Just a heads up for my fellow Clydesdales, I spent some time looking at the Gravel AL today and apparently it's got a 220lbs/100KG weight limit. I asked why and was told it was due to the material they used and should be on the lookout for the Gravel Ti... Sigh, I really wanted to like this one.
Correct. With all materials there are trade offs, and we wanted to make an aluminum frame that rides well meaning thinner tubes for some flex, spring, and compliance. If we made an aluminum frame with a high weight limit then it would require thicker tubes and compromise the ride quality. However, with our Ti frames with similar tube thicknesses we can have beautiful ride quality and a weight limit of 275 lbs. Just the nature of the materials.
@@blackheartbikeco I get it, it's just that most folks don't think about AL frames having a weight limit.
@@scottjones9670 Totally! Thanks for checking.
I've had a couple of aluminum Cannodale CAAD road bikes that I loved. They were quick and nimble, didn't rust in the Seattle winters, and I didn't notice that they were harsh. My only problem with aluminum is that I've only cracked or broke an aluminum frame. I don't tend to be that guy that's always breaking bike parts, but I cracked the headtube of a Yeti DH303, and snapped the rear triangle of a Foes mountain bike. Maybe aluminum has a shorter shelf life? Cool bike build. Would love a long term review on the Apex AXS stuff
Back in 2001, I bought an all-aluminum Bianchi, with a ChroMoly fork and seat post, and I commuted on it for several years. At one point, I calculated that I put about 12k miles on that bike. Then in 2011, I replaced it with a Specialized that still had an aluminum frame, but had a carbon fork and carbon seat post, and that made an absolute world of difference. It got me probably 80% of the ride quality of the two all-carbon bikes I've had since then - one with aluminum wheels, and the newest with carbon wheels. Each step up the food chain has made a noticeable difference in ride quality, but for sure the biggest bang for your buck is getting a carbon fork and seat post - I think that makes an aluminum frame totally reasonable by modern ride quality standards
What do I think about aluminum? Love 'modern' aluminum and own it on two bikes, one a Specialized Allez roadbike and one a Cannondale 29'er hardtail.
Honestly, I notice no difference in ride quality compared to my other Specialized carbon roadbike.
Further? The wider the tire, the less frame material matters in ride quality. If building a pure climbing bike, carbon has the edge in weight. Btw, I have owned all materials and prefer Aluminum to steel and Titanium and if the frame designer is adept, he can tune an Aluminum frame give it a very lively feel.
I am older than you and a mechanical engineer and could go into some of the physics why 'new' aluminum is so good like weld abuttment and hydroforming, but your channel subscribers can find that elsewhere on the web. Lower pencil seatstays on your frame also help with rear triangle compliance, now common on many aluminum bike frames. Many won't understand this comment but some will. Frame section modulus aka localized moment of inertia trumps frame material modulus of elasticity in terms of ride quality and stiffness in the right places. In other words, frame geometry can compensate for Aluminum to mimic the ride of carbon or very close by frame tubing section shape. Difference in modulus and yield strength can be adjusted by material thickness and tubing cross-section. Hydroforming Aluminum has changed the game. If you put an Aluminum and Carbon bike side by side, this is why the look so similar...but the Aluminum frame tubing material will be thicker because it isn't as strong and the reason it isn't stiffer is because Aluminum is more flexible than carbon fiber. The reason why the 'stiffness' mantra has hung around is because you need 'more volume of Aluminum' compared to carbon fiber to make the frame 'strong enough'. Aluminum fails in tension before carbon pulls apart. Thicker Aluminum tube sections make an Aluminum bike slightly heavier than carbon fiber and you need that Aluminum tube material thickness for 'strength'. Tube flexibility can be adjusted like how Cannondale did it in the old days that rode like a gravel truck...in their early CAAD series. Late model Al CAAD frames ride nice just like the Aluminum Synapse.
Nice build and 'you get it'.
Well done.
What? Why would you never run mechanical with an internally routed frame? I understand it can be tricky to thread the cable but it's not that hard.
It works fine. We recommend using a section of Jagwire Flexible Housing through the BB area and include with our framesets.
I guess I fallen into the camp that aluminum is harsh and all the other bad things said about it. The fact that it’s recyclable is a big bonus, hey you may be riding on somebody’s old beer cans, lol. I’ve gone to steel, and the frame was made in Austin, Tx.. Steel is also recyclable over and over like aluminum. Like you I’m riding a frame material that is likely recycled.
Enjoy the ride.
Don't be scared of Aluminum. There are a bunch of companies making great frames these days.
Aluminum got a bad name because carbon does tend to ride better if all things are equal. But by the time you add carbon wheels and premium tires aluminum's durability far outshines the small gains the average rider gets in a slightly lighter bike. I traded my Trek sl5 in for a al5 added 2 pounds but am glad that I made the swap. Lifetime warranty on the frame and piece of mind. haha I ride for fun and fitness not to go pro.
I have a CAAD 13 and a SuperSix and the CAAD 13 is a darn good and responsive road bike. Not better than the SuperSix, but you can get a lot of performance out of an alu bike. Great videos!
I remember when aluminum was the prized frame material.
I have nothing against riding an aluminum bike again.
I am kind of curious about the environmental impact of carbon frame manufacturing. That I’ll have to look into.
I'd bet the origin of the aluminum being uncomfortable comes from road racing. What size are those tires?
The tire size is mentioned in the video
Lol no, the original Cannondale MTBs were absolutely horrid to ride, that where it comes from.
I’ve been eyeing an all road ti from black heart. But, I love all black bikes, so if the Alu one rides just as nice, I may get that to keep the cost down a little bit, and get their second wheel set option.
They ride really similarly. Hit us up and we'll schedule a time to jump on a call to discuss 🖤
Join the club Dustin,my two gravel and cross bike are Ali,I don't do plastic,I think Kona and Fuji have been in the game nuff time to get it right
Aluminum is the bomb. I love mid tier bikes so I’ve had a few aluminum bikes over the years and I kinda like them more. Put some nice tires on and let it buck. I also just bought a Ron’s bike alumamax gravel bike with steel fork. All built it’s around that 22lbs mark and it’s a sweet ride. USA made and way under the 2k mark. Good video.
Aluminum frames are harsher than carbon ones (assuming the carbon one was made for compliance, instead of maximal aero or something), but that difference is a lot less noticeable when you run wider tires.
Put on some 25mm tires, pump them to 110PSI, then test which frame feels more tiring, lol.
But, if you are putting on big chunky tires, probably aluminum will feel almost the same as carbon.
What's really shown here is how much carbon wheels can make any frame fun and rideable.
It's part of the sauce, but modern materials and frame design have come a long way! 🖤
I have a Mason Cycles Bokeh for 4 years and this bike is amazing! Unfortunately this model has 42mm tyre clearance which for 2024 standards is limited, but I love this bike and have done very long amazing rides with it. It’s a UK brand and they do amazing stuff
I’m not sure what year you think this is. Aluminum bikes haven’t necessarily been “stiff” (harsh?) or “uninspiring” for quite some time. Manufacturers have been hydroforming aluminum for bicycle frames since 2003 or so. I ride a 2017 BMC ALR01 which is very comfortable/compliant - despite riding in Queens, NYC on some lousy road surfaces - yet stiff in all the right places, and fast after adding Fulcrum Racing 3 wheels. The whole bike with Shimano 105-5800 cost me $1100 in 2017 - a great value.
People saying $2k for a frame being a lot is in reference to a gravel to road frame right? Because for an aluminum mountain bike, $2k is pretty damn reasonable
I bet the big 45c tires (& Carbon rims/wheels, bar/stem, fork, and seat post all also) 'help' the frame, to not make the ride feel too harsh ...
Aluminum's harshness is/was especially felt (back) on road bikes with 23c tires, and/or bikes accompanied with other mostly alloy parts too.
That's a sweet bike! (I see on their website it's built for and you can also spec it with the short travel gavel forks too) honestly wasn't familiar with this bike brand, looked them up, really cool looking and quality stuff, also cool they're in Truckee. And as always great video Dustin, keep em coming!
Would love to see you get a carbonda 696 frame and compare against this one.
I'm a heavier rider. 100kg and can't afford a new bike every 2nd year. Seen too many failures with Carbon so my mountain bike as well as road are both Aluminium. My gravel build will be much like yours as well. I guess I'm also not a good enough rider to feel or get any benefits from carbon.
Once you put on 40+mm tyres there is no discernible compliance difference between carbon, alloy, Ti, steel. I’ve had them all. Only thing that matters is geo. Plus weight if that’s important to you.
My main road bike (50mm carbon wheels w/ 25mm tires) is aluminum, my gravel bike (38mm carbon wheels/tires and widths vary) is titanium, my mountain bike (AL rims w/ 29x2.6" tires) is aluminum, and my trainer bike is carbon fiber. With that being said, my trainer bike (Ridley Fenix SL) with 30mm tires on it out on the road is like riding a Cadillac in the comfort/smoothness department on rough roads. My titanium gravel bike on rough gravel terrain feels no different than any other frame material (i.e. beats the crap out of me). My road bike is comfortable on good/decent roads, but still snappy/responsive.
IIRC Blackheart uses 7005 aluminum , not like the 6000 series alloy used for most most other bike frames.
That frame is not going to last. There is a reason why most companies use 6061 aluminium for their frames and forks.
@@kazuviking It will and we stand by our products. And there is a reason why most companies use 6061, it's cheaper 🖤
@@blackheartbikeco 7005 is inferior to 6061 in every way. More expensive to work with, anodizing, heat treatment and welding needs more precision. Offers nothing over 6061 at bike level tube thickness. Funny hearing cheaper from you when you outsource to China where workrs being paid nothing.
@@kazuviking Disagree, but all good. You can use 6061 when you manufacture your bikes. 🖤
my Mommy bike is a hearty and proven AL hybrid. It tows. Offroad. It's comfy. It won't rust. It doesn't weigh a ton. I have a lithe lugged vintage touring bike, a burly Ti gravel rando, a beast of a carbon MTB and this do almost all AL mommy bike which I also love. Hype is hype. Don't like rust? you have options. don't like weight? you have options.
I'll tell you what I think about aluminium. It's great! My hardtail mtb (Ragley big al) has alot of compliance built in and it is super "comfy"! Aluminium can be very harsh and very comfortable 🤷🏻♂️
I used to have an aluminum Bombtrack that I used for gravel riding some pretty rough stuff and it was surprisingly smooth for what I expected for aluminum. And pretty light to boot.
Love it❤. I like aluminum, my Jamis Supernova is an aluminum frame with carbon fork and wishbone carbon seatstays. It rides real nice as an all road cyclocross/gravel/fall and winter bike. This bike of yours intrigues me. Please ride those wheels until they fail and we’ll get the autopsy from you. I wish the Blackheart could run 2 X however. I definitely would consider getting one!
AWESOME steed. I would LOVE to barrow the bike and put it thru some test here in Michigan, in Detroit and everywhere between. Just saying that would be awesome. 😉
I've been rocking my allez sprint for everything from hard road tours to gravel adventures to crit racing. It rips and I've never been left wanting!
Aluminum is performant, sustainable, and more durable. My next bike will def be alu.
It's really cool to see these sorts of companies getting showcased. We need higher end aluminum bikes with all the benefits of modern standards. (Saw some guy complaining about dropped seat stays lol, they're not just trends)
Other cool brands to check out are trek with their emonda, standert, and fairlight :)
Hunt Wheels!! Best of both worlds...Great Value. Been on a gravel wheel set for 5 years, still true.
The only composite bike I own is my 1988 Mantis X/C R. Literally thousands of miles later, still riding.
I have been riding aluminum on my road bike for 9 years and it is awesome. I tried carbon but preferred the feedback received from aluminum. Plus, the entire bike only cost $1600 with an Ultegra groupset!
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing
Back in the day, before suspension , we rode aluminum Cannondales and Klein with big tires and they were great. It’s no surprise to me with big tires and low pressure that it’s a nice ride.
Love the bike build, its tempting me to now build a gravel bike. Regarding the wheelset spares, sealed bearings will be the most common thing to go and they are easily obtained as the spec is usually etched on the bearings an d if not then dimension specs is second step. Spokes are an easy match up too. I had no probs getting spares for my Chinese carbon wheels.
Confused… stoked about recycling aluminum but puts all carbon components on?
Also mechanical shifting works fine on internal routing.
Pretty sure this exact frame is sold on Temu for $250
Thanks for the comment. We believe in the right material for the right application. At times carbon is the superior material. At other times aluminum. And just like riding a bike to work when you own car is a great thing, incorporating aluminum when possible is a great idea.
And no, this frame is not sold on Temu for $250. Our frames are designed and tested at our shop in Northern CA, manufactured to our spec in our partner factories, and independently tested to CPSC 1512 and ISO 4210 standards in Southern CA 👍👍
The aluminium frame is very reliable on long rides. Your not gonna worry if u crash it, durable. You got a peace of mind. And, of course to go faster, you need lots of practice...🙂👍🚴♂️
The bounce test is the golden standard
🖤🖤🖤
Im glad Im not alone ;)
I have ridden my aluminum check point over those same forest park roads and it is pretty great.
Carbon has caused many companies to reevaluate aluminum and up there game using new manufacturing methods, and are producing high end aluminum bikes and components with great ride quality while approaching a similar weight and ride characteristics of carbon, the specialized chisel comes to mind, as well as some cannondale roadbikes. Some race teams are using aluminum wheel sets again for their ride quality, and they're less likely to catastrophically fail. However I still feel "steel is real"
Thank you for trying all this combo! I’d like to see you doing upgrades to ebikes with the sx motor ;)