From my understanding, not many teams have a president of hockey operations that is separate from the GM role. That's a huge reason no top GM will go to the Leafs.
@@OWlsfordshire Not quite. The "President of hockey operations" at most teams is basically "chief executive assistant to the GM". Essentially as President, you will manage aspects of the team that the GM either doesn't want to do, can't do or needs help doing. Which is why on some teams the GM is also the president if he's happy doing it all or the team can't afford to pay a second guy the GM will do both roles. Point is that at most teams the actual role of the President of Hockey op's changes based on what the GM needs. At the leaf's however things are extremely rigid, the role rarely changes. The GM has clear defined duties and so does the President. So if your a top GM other teams are more attractive because they offer more flexibility in the GM's, you can mould team management around you instead of moulding yourself around the leaf's.
I just want to say, I think it is about taking people by their words. Kyle's words said, it was either toronto or no where else. Obviously no one thought he would be fired. But being fired still encompasses not being somewhere else if he wasn't back in toronto. If that makes sense, I think that's why people are making a big deal out of those comments Edit: he was using his family for leverage. Probably because he knew he would be able to land any job he could. Gonna miss Kyle. Wish him the best, but sad to see him achieve it elsewhere
@@1madmaxx80his contract was set to expire, yes, but he was told to stop coming into work before the contract was finished. That, to me, is being fired.
I was expecting him not to make a statement he could not back up. No problem with him signing with Pit. Don't say an absolute statement if you don't mean it.
@Danica DeVries the best way to get promoted is to move between companies every few years and get slightly better jobs each time. I know way too many people who have stayed on the same job for 20 years and not been promoted.
10:50 - I had a job interview at a hospital in Pittsburgh years ago and they had me take a tour of the city done by a professional tour guide. While I didn't get the job, I still appreciated that.
As a leaf fan that will wear off... IMO the most overrated guy in Hockey. People act like he is a genius but he really didn't do anything in Toronto but overpay players, trade out all the draft picks, and draft poorly with picks he had (in 5 years only 3 NHL players drafted by Dubas)
@@hankrearden5460 Well yeah of course you don't have many draft picks in the lineup when you trade the draft picks. Of course you trade draft picks if you're not a rebuilding team lol. He was an excellent trader too. Not a perfect GM but you're with a certain crowd that has a vendetta against him.
Since Dubas very much got this job because he's entrenched in the hockey side, it's very likely he'll continue to be involved in setting the direction of the team. But he's also probably not likely to be intent on re-creating the structure he wanted to have changed over in Toronto, so I'd expect if the GM is to report to him, then Dubas would want autonomy to ok things for the GM without going to the board. I'd definitively see Dubas as bringing a lot of value in terms of building out the Pens organization and support structure and perhaps working to leverage some of the advantages that being part of Fenway affords him in terms of sports science and analytics. Everything about him says he's got good administrative instincts and he's a very modern thinker, something which is definitively going to be appealing when recruiting young talent people in the industry.
I agree and still think the "Toronto or nowhere" comment was purely about if they - his family - continue to work in the NHL or if they use this contract expiry to take a pause. Totally fair. I don't think he would have said no Toronto and then popped up in Pittsburgh. They (family) clearly agreed to continue with the Leafs when he countered the offer. I don't think money was an issue and Shanny said that. Those "financial packages" shanny talks about include terms for company jet access etc.. its not exclusively salary. It's also widely reported he wanted a change in reporting structure to streamline discussions with the board - I think this is a personal and emotional decision for Shanny to save his own seat at the table and avoid becoming a redundancy. Dubas got that exact job in Pittsburgh + the interim GM title.
@@Nathanielhiggerson66 I agree. Anyone who signed off on all the bad decisions should be held accountable. Shanahan is probably more responsible for this tire fire than Dubas ever was.
"That's how you end up single." Haha. Thank you. This is the truth. I cringe at all of the comments about people thinking it is ridiculous to consult your wife on life decisions.
The Toronto area is unhinged (looking at TSN and others) when it comes to the Leafs. In Pittsburgh, he'll be able to walk to the local store and buy some Turner's Tea without 50 people bothering him.
The reaction to his press conference baffles me. The guy said he needed a minute on probably the worst day of his career and everyone pooped themselves. Wild.
This is an opportunity to be employed by the Fenway Sports Group. He'd be crazy to pass it up. They own, or are majority stakeholders for the Red Sox, Liverpool FC, the Penguins, NESN broadcasting and much more. His employment possibilities for the future are endless, as long as he gets the penguins back to their championship caliber.
The irony being that both Red Sox and Liverpool fans are not exactly the biggest FSG supporters at the moment. Under FSG management they've had success but arguably squandered away sustained success due to lack of investment. It's a good thing the NHL has a hard cap system or someone like Crosby/Malkin would've been gone under FSG.
This potential for corporate climbing and seeing Dubas as someone who is more focused on job security, than cups or general playoff success, is maybe where some of the external upset comes from (from both people who wanted him gone and who did not). I don't know if he is like this, but he has some pseudo-competitive tendencies that point toward it. That said, I think how he negotiated, played PR, etc. with the Leafs is fine/not really the issue. Anyway, the above could explain some of the negative views that are founded on more than 'good riddance'.
@@Chester_C.Pingbat Your comment makes zero sense. Job security is achieved through winning. You're definitely salty. He wouldn't be in the position he is in if he didn't care about winning Hockey games.
It just blows my mind that people are getting upset about him moving to another team. Once he decided to GM Toronto again then got fired, all previous statements became void.
People are upset because of the way he went about this all, he had shanny believing they had a contract worked out, does press conference, come back with a new deal that effectively cuts shanny out. Week later after his press conference where he clearly was trying to leverage more money and more power he does the thing he said he wouldn’t and “pops up somewhere else” it shows he was more interested in himself and his career as opposed to the team itself, which is a problem this team has had with players and staff for decades. They care about the money they make more then winning plain and simple
@@deweyw3737 Your comment is insane frankly. Brendan Shanahan fired a guy who he said did well in all aspects of his job. He laid that out to the media publicly. That's a backstabbing. He said he wasn't going to leave the team for another team. He said nothing about not getting another job after being unceremoniously shit canned.
@@mr.brenman2132 lol your comment is insane frankly, dubas is still technically employed by the leafs until July 1st he wasn’t fired numb nuts. He also laid out publicly how there was a deal in place, Brendan asked him not to do a presser til after contract was announced he did it anyway asking for more money and more power after his presser. It was a snakes move, glad he’s gone.
It's also funny that he gets labelled as immature for getting into it with fans when former Ducks' GM, Bob Murray, allegedly threw a chair at an innocent bystander. Sometimes I feel like a 14 year old has more maturity than a guy in his 60s.
I'm not sure what stage of alcoholic he was at that time, but from what I've heard from people around the Ducks Org he was a chimp with a machine gun in terms of how he acted in his final years with the team.
@@MoreMallards Yeah and it just seems to me that he's known for throwing tempter tantrums from time to time. That's not very mature behavior regardless of circumstance.
I will miss him more than any other manager we've ever had. He was so much more than a manager. I didn't agree with every decision but many of them were impressive. He made some very classy moves too. Hiring Spezza was beautiful. I wept seeing Spezza resign. Both these guys were fantastic people to have representing ownership. Perfect intermediaries for the players -- personable, honourable, respectable and loyal. Say what you will but seeing as he's went from GM of one team to President of another, he's clearly valuable and experienced enough to head a team. He will be missed in Toronto.
Excellent! I have been hearing so much trash about the Toronto press conference and how Dubas betrayed Toronto. You have looked at both media presentations with intelligence and no bias. Well done. I am Canadian, and a strong Pittsburgh fan. I have no idea how this will look at the end of next season, but I see Dubas as a breath of fresh air and someone who has come into the job with aspirations that match those of the team, in particular the core players. Win. I look forward to seeing how this plays out. Thank you for this!
As a Penguins fan, as soon as Dubas was let go by the Maple Leafs I was hoping he would become a part of the Penguins. I am incredibly happy with this news.
Kyles hands were tied it seemed. Shanahan is just a middle man. Treviling shows up, Dubas is in Pittsburgh all within a week. It seems it was all worked out behind the scenes, and then played out for the media. Shanny looked way more nervous than the new GM in his first press conference. Maybe he's next
Bottom line is that if the Leafs didn’t fire him, he’s still there working for them, and that was his preference. Once the leafs made the decision to fire him then his circumstance is different and just like any normal person fired from a job, has every right to go out and try to find a new job. Anyone criticizing him or saying he went back on his word is just bitter.
I'm happy to see that he got a job quickly. He made the Leafs a regular season winner. Just getting to see them in the playoffs again was great. And then this year get into the second round. Hopefully, Treliving can continue that momentum. I can't wait to see the Leafs and Penguins play each other in playoffs.
I, 100% agree with your take. The moment he got fired, anything said before that is a moot point. He got fired, so he is free to pursue other opportunities. Like do you seriously expect him to just sit around unemployed because he said he would not go anywhere else.. The outrage over this is dumb.
I honestly can't imagine the constant pressure of being a GM for a major league sports team, let alone the absurd fanaticism shown by Leafs fans and media. I agree, once fired, all bets are off. A family's gotta eat... ;-)
In tangentially-related news that made me laugh real hard, when the Wild held a press conference for Brett McLean’s promotion to Iowa Wild head coach, Guerin was talking about how McLean had to talk the decision of taking the job over with his family and how he was really glad to hear that - because guys who have that consideration for their families are the kind of guys they want in the Wild organization. Felt like the classiest middle finger in the world to Shanahan, I was laughing *so* hard hearing that
Excellent, well-thought-out analysis. There are no good guys or bad guys here. Shanahan obviously didn't like Dubas, maybe he'll get along with Treliving better. More power to them, maybe it will work better in Toronto. Pittsburgh has got to be super-excited to have a young and talented hockey-minded executive to inject some emotion into their franchise. Best of luck to all of them.
Im a Penguins fan. I will say Dubas has said all the right things so far. Just about anyone will be an improvement on Hextall. I agree that all bets are off after you get fired, the man still has to provide for his family. I would say im cautiously optomistic for the future. Only time will tell
@@charleybarley7148 more championships that we can count on 2 hands..? We also built half the shit we sent to Europe on the 40s.. Jarvik 7, first artificial heart, leader in worldwide robotics, medical research, etc etc. Go ahead tho, be the tool bag.
@mr.brenman2132 true, but the pens have had success recently, not nearly as much pressure. I also see pens fans as intelligent, I'm certain they know the window is closing, since all the main pieces are over 35.
I'm just surprised as it looks like this is the first time that Kyle Dubas has ever come out on top in a contract negotiation! He played hardball, asking for more money/ more autonomy and ended up with it, plus a less toxic work environment thrown in as a sweetener! (It does seem ironic that it turns out Shanahan was the one who wants to keep the core 4 + Keefe status quo, while Dubas was potentially looking to make a Masai-esque go big or go home move)
I agree with everything you said here, except when you say that Dubas never talked to Pittsburgh until he got fired. I feel like that's unlikely. Especially considering Shanahan told us that Dubas sent a new financial package to Shanahan. It's pretty clear that Dubas knew Pittsburgh wanted him (it's been rumoured for months) and he knew the monetary value and asked for the same from Toronto, or at least he asked for the extra money to convince him to stay as GM instead of becoming President. Dubas knew Pittsburgh was gonna hire him.
Torontos own fault. Penguins got a good one. You got fired, how dare you get a job with another organization lol also people are stupid. Money doesn’t change how you feel on the inside and it doesn’t change his love in terms of him loving his family. THG with another great video like always
Toronto/Canadian drama has clearly already followed him to Pittsburgh. Honestly I’m down for it. The pens have become so blah lately, some energy needs to be injected back into this group…. And some youth please
Seems to me that Dubas had outgrown Shanahan's oversight and *that* is what Shanahan realized during that press conference. I would've had one of the arrows on the white board pointing to "maybe path needs to shift..." Because, the path in question was laid out by Shanahan. Putting the words "didn't want to be there" in Dubas' mouth was code for "he doesn't want to follow MY plan anymore, and he just went off script and dangled a course correction in front of the world that I didn't sign off on. And *now* he wants more money?" It wasn't because the guy needed to talk it over with his family. Lo and behold, here's Kyle taking a President of Hockey Ops job when he could have just slid laterally to GM of Pittsburgh. He's still young. But he's now fully self aware (if he wasn't before) that he wants to be pulling the strings a level up. As for him saying he wouldn't pop up elsewhere - if he'd been fired for performance reasons, then he would've taken it personally and wanted to reflect before moving on. Because he was fired for going off script at a press conference instead, that no longer applies. Guy probably feels he should have been Shanahan's boss.
This is coming from a leafs fan. I honestly wish him the best and pittsburgh got a good guy in Dubas. He said he wanted to come back and couldnt see himself be a gm for another team and technically he's not lol. Personnally as a leafs fan it did seem like him and his family, (with his family an extension of himself, as it should be), wasnt all in on being a leafs gm. The big difference i see with what you've said is yes, you are allowed to have doubts, and who wouldn't? but should those doubts be publicly displayed? What happens if i went on facebook tagging my employer and said im not sure if i want to do this anymore. You'd have a safe bet I'd be let go too. Have your doubts, but keep those doubts behind closed doors so that the media and the fanbase doesnt see you as wishy washy. I honeslty think him as president makes more sense than gm.
Good luck to Dubas in Pittsburgh. I will just say this since im in the toronto bubble. What got Dubas fired was that several days after the press conference a counter offer was made that was 50% increase in salary and more autonomy over hockey operations. Ehether Shanahan felt he was going for his job? We will never know.
I have no idea what this guy said or didn't say in Toronto. Loyalty? Loyalty is for friends and family. Not for employer / employee. Only fools have loyalty to their employer. Your employer would fire you in a second if it meant for profits. As the employee, you need to do what's best for you. Even if your employer is great you need to look out for yourself above all else
Speaking to your point about the importance of family. Like you said,Dubas specifically said his wife encouraged him to go visit PGH. People really underestimate how important that is to making a decision like that.
In terms of the interim GM title, my understanding is partially what you said, but also it’s now too close to the draft and FA that it’s difficult to be able to get permission to talk to someone and have them able to actively participate with the team before mid-July anyways - See Brad Treliving not being allowed at Toronto’s draft table.
It's just typical Toronto fans being Toronto fans... What were they expecting? Did they really expect Dubas to sit at home all day with no job, no income, and not find a new job?? Toronto fans are something else...
The Penguins’s ownership has short patience with their president and GM. Kyle Dubas will last no more than two seasons if he can’t get the team past Round 1 of the playoffs!
Agreed, I'm a 58 year old life long Leaf fan and I am officially done wth Shanahan and the Leafs. A Penguins fan now, already have my Pens jersey on order.
I thought the Pens could be in for a long brutal rebuild but this a great move for the organization. Dubas is a GM that makes star players want to stay and can also put together a solid team. Brendan Shanahan is going to be taking the heat on this one for years to come.
No money is what makes start players want to stay. You think players are loyal to a gm or team? No, maybe in the last few years of their careers a little bit but when they are in their prime it's all about money.
@Planck Snail He's also nearing the end of his career and it was the last contract of his career as I stated there are some exceptions for those at the end. Reading helps you a lot. If he was in his prime do you think he would of taken a cut, no in fact he was the highest paid player in the league when he signed his prior contract. Bottom line, money talks. Or do you think he would of stayed if Pitt was in a rebuilding mode, heck no he wouldn't of. He would of left like you see so many other veterans. Don't kid yourself if you think these guys are sticking around for the good of the team, in fact the players union tells them to get as much as they possibly can because it raises all other salaries in the process. My gosh always has to be that one guy that points out sydney crosby took less, and it's not like he took a few millions less it wasn't much less. AGain read what I said.
It’s always good form to not badmouth a previous employer, and in many cases employers prevent you from making disparaging comments. All good. That’s not signing away your rights to your future, just to maintain decorum. Dubas is handling this in a classy manner.
I am a Toronto fan and agree with you. Once you are fired you owe them nothing. Good for him to go somewhere else.
From my understanding, not many teams have a president of hockey operations that is separate from the GM role. That's a huge reason no top GM will go to the Leafs.
Everyone is salty and want someone to blame.
It was Dubas or Shanny. Shanny had more power so he axed Dubas, can't be mad he dipped after being fired from the team he asked for an extension with
@@OWlsfordshire Not quite.
The "President of hockey operations" at most teams is basically "chief executive assistant to the GM". Essentially as President, you will manage aspects of the team that the GM either doesn't want to do, can't do or needs help doing.
Which is why on some teams the GM is also the president if he's happy doing it all or the team can't afford to pay a second guy the GM will do both roles. Point is that at most teams the actual role of the President of Hockey op's changes based on what the GM needs.
At the leaf's however things are extremely rigid, the role rarely changes. The GM has clear defined duties and so does the President. So if your a top GM other teams are more attractive because they offer more flexibility in the GM's, you can mould team management around you instead of moulding yourself around the leaf's.
I just want to say, I think it is about taking people by their words.
Kyle's words said, it was either toronto or no where else. Obviously no one thought he would be fired. But being fired still encompasses not being somewhere else if he wasn't back in toronto.
If that makes sense, I think that's why people are making a big deal out of those comments
Edit: he was using his family for leverage. Probably because he knew he would be able to land any job he could.
Gonna miss Kyle. Wish him the best, but sad to see him achieve it elsewhere
Imagine my rage, when I discovered that the fry clerk at my local McDonalds was let go and is now cooking fries at Burger King. Unconscionable!
As Vizzini says "Inconceivable!!!"
omg love the post
Is this a meta joke? you know because that's where Dubas should be working
I agree, how dare he get a job promotion from another team after being fired from his previous team.
He wasn't fired. His contract ended at the end of the season and it was not renewed. If he was fired they'd still be paying him. Like Babcock.
Yeah how dare he go after his previous boss'job lol
@@1madmaxx80his contract was set to expire, yes, but he was told to stop coming into work before the contract was finished. That, to me, is being fired.
@@1madmaxx80 No, his contract expires on June 30th and was not being renewed. The Leafs gave Pittsburgh permission to talk with Dubas.
Then he should have shut up about not rushing into another organization
I'm just wondering were people expecting him to just stay at home and not get a new job after getting fired?
I was expecting him not to make a statement he could not back up. No problem with him signing with Pit. Don't say an absolute statement if you don't mean it.
When someone gets fired, they should stay fired!!! /s
Seriously though, as a Pens fan, I like this move.
@@dougtrotter2038 exactly. But most people knew he was bullshitting.
It was in the works before he was officially done in Toronto
Corporate loyalty is over rated.
Eff corporations. Take every dime you can from them.
@@adamsteele6148 exactly
"In 20 years the only people who will remember you worked late is your family"
It's just stupid. How dumb do you have to be to be loyal to a brand or corporation?
@Danica DeVries the best way to get promoted is to move between companies every few years and get slightly better jobs each time. I know way too many people who have stayed on the same job for 20 years and not been promoted.
10:50 - I had a job interview at a hospital in Pittsburgh years ago and they had me take a tour of the city done by a professional tour guide. While I didn't get the job, I still appreciated that.
Couldn't be more excited as Penguins fan. The press conference was such a breath of fresh air after having Hextall
@@edited1325 hextall's plan for the team was "too complicated to write down"
so glad he's gone
As a leaf fan that will wear off... IMO the most overrated guy in Hockey. People act like he is a genius but he really didn't do anything in Toronto but overpay players, trade out all the draft picks, and draft poorly with picks he had (in 5 years only 3 NHL players drafted by Dubas)
@@hankrearden5460 Well yeah of course you don't have many draft picks in the lineup when you trade the draft picks. Of course you trade draft picks if you're not a rebuilding team lol. He was an excellent trader too. Not a perfect GM but you're with a certain crowd that has a vendetta against him.
@@Mrhunterfishermen yeah finally the Leafs can go back to all that success they had before 2018 :P
You guys lucked out with Dubas, straight up
Always coming through with reasonable and level-headed takes. Great stuff.
Since Dubas very much got this job because he's entrenched in the hockey side, it's very likely he'll continue to be involved in setting the direction of the team. But he's also probably not likely to be intent on re-creating the structure he wanted to have changed over in Toronto, so I'd expect if the GM is to report to him, then Dubas would want autonomy to ok things for the GM without going to the board. I'd definitively see Dubas as bringing a lot of value in terms of building out the Pens organization and support structure and perhaps working to leverage some of the advantages that being part of Fenway affords him in terms of sports science and analytics. Everything about him says he's got good administrative instincts and he's a very modern thinker, something which is definitively going to be appealing when recruiting young talent people in the industry.
I bet he hires Spezza as GM, given how close spezza worked with Dubas in Toronto as his assistant.
At least he led the maple leafs out of the first round
I love Pittsburgh. Not just any Pittsburgh though, “The Pittsburgh”.
@@dantran9962 Ah dammit 😔
Or as some people from there call it, Pixburgh
@@woodsie22 n’@
“I cant, can you see how he betrayed the team that fired him?” is such a perfect quote
I agree and still think the "Toronto or nowhere" comment was purely about if they - his family - continue to work in the NHL or if they use this contract expiry to take a pause. Totally fair. I don't think he would have said no Toronto and then popped up in Pittsburgh. They (family) clearly agreed to continue with the Leafs when he countered the offer. I don't think money was an issue and Shanny said that. Those "financial packages" shanny talks about include terms for company jet access etc.. its not exclusively salary. It's also widely reported he wanted a change in reporting structure to streamline discussions with the board - I think this is a personal and emotional decision for Shanny to save his own seat at the table and avoid becoming a redundancy. Dubas got that exact job in Pittsburgh + the interim GM title.
“That’s how you end up single!” Priceless
He will probably do even better not having Shanahan blocking his moves
You are a funny man.
What moves were blocked? If anything Shanahan and MLSE should have blocked more of the decisions that were made.
@@astrobot3038 Keep in mind each move you didnt like MLSE and Shanny went with. Shanahan should be gone too lol
Buddy gets it
@@Nathanielhiggerson66 I agree. Anyone who signed off on all the bad decisions should be held accountable. Shanahan is probably more responsible for this tire fire than Dubas ever was.
Brilliant job on this !! - thanks for the insight. A mighty thorough connection of the dots.
"That's how you end up single." Haha. Thank you. This is the truth. I cringe at all of the comments about people thinking it is ridiculous to consult your wife on life decisions.
The Toronto area is unhinged (looking at TSN and others) when it comes to the Leafs. In Pittsburgh, he'll be able to walk to the local store and buy some Turner's Tea without 50 people bothering him.
Exactly correct.
The reaction to his press conference baffles me. The guy said he needed a minute on probably the worst day of his career and everyone pooped themselves. Wild.
I wish Dubas all the best, can't wait to see what he cooks up in Pittsburgh.
This is an opportunity to be employed by the Fenway Sports Group. He'd be crazy to pass it up. They own, or are majority stakeholders for the Red Sox, Liverpool FC, the Penguins, NESN broadcasting and much more. His employment possibilities for the future are endless, as long as he gets the penguins back to their championship caliber.
The irony being that both Red Sox and Liverpool fans are not exactly the biggest FSG supporters at the moment. Under FSG management they've had success but arguably squandered away sustained success due to lack of investment. It's a good thing the NHL has a hard cap system or someone like Crosby/Malkin would've been gone under FSG.
This potential for corporate climbing and seeing Dubas as someone who is more focused on job security, than cups or general playoff success, is maybe where some of the external upset comes from (from both people who wanted him gone and who did not).
I don't know if he is like this, but he has some pseudo-competitive tendencies that point toward it. That said, I think how he negotiated, played PR, etc. with the Leafs is fine/not really the issue. Anyway, the above could explain some of the negative views that are founded on more than 'good riddance'.
@@stevendchu Malkin and Letang signed new contracts last year already under FSG ownership, so... ther's that.
@@Chester_C.Pingbat Your comment makes zero sense. Job security is achieved through winning. You're definitely salty. He wouldn't be in the position he is in if he didn't care about winning Hockey games.
@@stevendchu Mario Lemieux still has minority ownership.
It just blows my mind that people are getting upset about him moving to another team. Once he decided to GM Toronto again then got fired, all previous statements became void.
Pens must have been talking to him way before, maybe months ago since, people were already talking about it.
People are upset because of the way he went about this all, he had shanny believing they had a contract worked out, does press conference, come back with a new deal that effectively cuts shanny out. Week later after his press conference where he clearly was trying to leverage more money and more power he does the thing he said he wouldn’t and “pops up somewhere else” it shows he was more interested in himself and his career as opposed to the team itself, which is a problem this team has had with players and staff for decades. They care about the money they make more then winning plain and simple
@@willsk7068 Nope. They starting talking to him right after he got fired.
@@deweyw3737 Your comment is insane frankly. Brendan Shanahan fired a guy who he said did well in all aspects of his job. He laid that out to the media publicly. That's a backstabbing. He said he wasn't going to leave the team for another team. He said nothing about not getting another job after being unceremoniously shit canned.
@@mr.brenman2132 lol your comment is insane frankly, dubas is still technically employed by the leafs until July 1st he wasn’t fired numb nuts. He also laid out publicly how there was a deal in place, Brendan asked him not to do a presser til after contract was announced he did it anyway asking for more money and more power after his presser. It was a snakes move, glad he’s gone.
It's also funny that he gets labelled as immature for getting into it with fans when former Ducks' GM, Bob Murray, allegedly threw a chair at an innocent bystander. Sometimes I feel like a 14 year old has more maturity than a guy in his 60s.
I'm not sure what stage of alcoholic he was at that time, but from what I've heard from people around the Ducks Org he was a chimp with a machine gun in terms of how he acted in his final years with the team.
@@MoreMallards Yeah and it just seems to me that he's known for throwing tempter tantrums from time to time. That's not very mature behavior regardless of circumstance.
Great content !
I will miss him more than any other manager we've ever had.
He was so much more than a manager. I didn't agree with every decision but many of them were impressive. He made some very classy moves too.
Hiring Spezza was beautiful. I wept seeing Spezza resign. Both these guys were fantastic people to have representing ownership. Perfect intermediaries for the players -- personable, honourable, respectable and loyal.
Say what you will but seeing as he's went from GM of one team to President of another, he's clearly valuable and experienced enough to head a team. He will be missed in Toronto.
Great insight, thanks HG
As a Leafs fan I am really disappointed he is not part of our organization anymore. The Penguins are going to be much better with Dubas leading them.
It’s kinda funny how this has to be a video 😂
Because it's the leafs.. All bow to the leafs🤪..
Well stated Shannon. I feel a lot of people are missing some of these key points that you touched on about the situation.
Excellent! I have been hearing so much trash about the Toronto press conference and how Dubas betrayed Toronto. You have looked at both media presentations with intelligence and no bias. Well done. I am Canadian, and a strong Pittsburgh fan. I have no idea how this will look at the end of next season, but I see Dubas as a breath of fresh air and someone who has come into the job with aspirations that match those of the team, in particular the core players. Win. I look forward to seeing how this plays out. Thank you for this!
As a Penguins fan, as soon as Dubas was let go by the Maple Leafs I was hoping he would become a part of the Penguins. I am incredibly happy with this news.
How dare he want to take a job so he can feed his family. How dare he.
Shannon you need to bring back the GM Series, one of my favorites. Years ago you used to do these gm videos with discussion of their transactions
Kyles hands were tied it seemed. Shanahan is just a middle man. Treviling shows up, Dubas is in Pittsburgh all within a week. It seems it was all worked out behind the scenes, and then played out for the media. Shanny looked way more nervous than the new GM in his first press conference. Maybe he's next
Bottom line is that if the Leafs didn’t fire him, he’s still there working for them, and that was his preference. Once the leafs made the decision to fire him then his circumstance is different and just like any normal person fired from a job, has every right to go out and try to find a new job. Anyone criticizing him or saying he went back on his word is just bitter.
"Do you see how he betrayed the team that fired him?" 🤣Quote of the Year. Great stuff as always, THG. Love the content.
Thank you. The discourse on this has been so wacky.
I'm happy to see that he got a job quickly. He made the Leafs a regular season winner. Just getting to see them in the playoffs again was great. And then this year get into the second round. Hopefully, Treliving can continue that momentum.
I can't wait to see the Leafs and Penguins play each other in playoffs.
Dubas moving to Pittsburgh makes me happy
6:46 "Who's the dead man that hit me with the salt shaker?"!
I, 100% agree with your take. The moment he got fired, anything said before that is a moot point. He got fired, so he is free to pursue other opportunities. Like do you seriously expect him to just sit around unemployed because he said he would not go anywhere else.. The outrage over this is dumb.
I honestly can't imagine the constant pressure of being a GM for a major league sports team, let alone the absurd fanaticism shown by Leafs fans and media. I agree, once fired, all bets are off. A family's gotta eat... ;-)
Can't imagine putting up with it for a few mill a year yup, not me... 😂
@@andre97621 He can make the same few mil somewhere else, so he might as well go to a place less toxic than Toronto.
Shannon you are a very good person.
The Pittsburgh!
leaf fans are toxic. end of discussion
Many.. but not all of us
All fans are toxic. end of discussion. FTFY.
In tangentially-related news that made me laugh real hard, when the Wild held a press conference for Brett McLean’s promotion to Iowa Wild head coach, Guerin was talking about how McLean had to talk the decision of taking the job over with his family and how he was really glad to hear that - because guys who have that consideration for their families are the kind of guys they want in the Wild organization. Felt like the classiest middle finger in the world to Shanahan, I was laughing *so* hard hearing that
Excellent, well-thought-out analysis. There are no good guys or bad guys here. Shanahan obviously didn't like Dubas, maybe he'll get along with Treliving better. More power to them, maybe it will work better in Toronto. Pittsburgh has got to be super-excited to have a young and talented hockey-minded executive to inject some emotion into their franchise. Best of luck to all of them.
Huh? Shanny made Dumbass's career.
Im a Penguins fan. I will say Dubas has said all the right things so far. Just about anyone will be an improvement on Hextall. I agree that all bets are off after you get fired, the man still has to provide for his family. I would say im cautiously optomistic for the future. Only time will tell
I'm so excited to have Dubas on board. I do think he's really gonna help us. The pens situation isn't as bad as people make it out to be
I’m proud to be from the Pittsburgh.
Cool..Nobody cares 😉
Just kidding 😂
Northside of the Pittsburgh - guy from the Pittsburgh.
Lmao why?
@@charleybarley7148 more championships that we can count on 2 hands..?
We also built half the shit we sent to Europe on the 40s..
Jarvik 7, first artificial heart, leader in worldwide robotics, medical research, etc etc.
Go ahead tho, be the tool bag.
@@charleybarley7148 Why not?
I think being in a less stressful environment, he's going to see a lot of success.
Maybe a litte bit. American sports fans still demand winning. Pittsburgh is a top hockey market.
@mr.brenman2132 true, but the pens have had success recently, not nearly as much pressure. I also see pens fans as intelligent, I'm certain they know the window is closing, since all the main pieces are over 35.
His kids are 6 and 2? Still over 500 but maybe not the best start. There's still lots of time to improve though
6-2 is a .750 percentage. That's pretty darn good.
@@JarradBruessel32 yeah it's just that they haven't played many games yet
@@WatermelonCat941 may be the first team to go 66-62.
I'm just surprised as it looks like this is the first time that Kyle Dubas has ever come out on top in a contract negotiation! He played hardball, asking for more money/ more autonomy and ended up with it, plus a less toxic work environment thrown in as a sweetener!
(It does seem ironic that it turns out Shanahan was the one who wants to keep the core 4 + Keefe status quo, while Dubas was potentially looking to make a Masai-esque go big or go home move)
Another great video Shannon! 👍
loved watching it ❤
I agree with everything you said here, except when you say that Dubas never talked to Pittsburgh until he got fired. I feel like that's unlikely. Especially considering Shanahan told us that Dubas sent a new financial package to Shanahan. It's pretty clear that Dubas knew Pittsburgh wanted him (it's been rumoured for months) and he knew the monetary value and asked for the same from Toronto, or at least he asked for the extra money to convince him to stay as GM instead of becoming President. Dubas knew Pittsburgh was gonna hire him.
Possibly, and good on him. Most people like to make sure they have another job before they leave the one they are at.
He told them he wanted to stay and they canned him. What is then disloyal about getting another job?
Not even Harold Ballard was capable of creating a soap opera like this.
Torontos own fault. Penguins got a good one. You got fired, how dare you get a job with another organization lol also people are stupid. Money doesn’t change how you feel on the inside and it doesn’t change his love in terms of him loving his family. THG with another great video like always
Unless you are wealthy-everyone needs a job.Dubas is no different.
Another great video! Hope he turns the Penguins into a playoff team again
Dubas clear win here he was unemployed what he suppose to do sit there and do nothing lol obviously not mans gotta eat and feed his family
Excellent points Shannon!!!
Toronto/Canadian drama has clearly already followed him to Pittsburgh. Honestly I’m down for it. The pens have become so blah lately, some energy needs to be injected back into this group…. And some youth please
Seems to me that Dubas had outgrown Shanahan's oversight and *that* is what Shanahan realized during that press conference. I would've had one of the arrows on the white board pointing to "maybe path needs to shift..." Because, the path in question was laid out by Shanahan. Putting the words "didn't want to be there" in Dubas' mouth was code for "he doesn't want to follow MY plan anymore, and he just went off script and dangled a course correction in front of the world that I didn't sign off on. And *now* he wants more money?" It wasn't because the guy needed to talk it over with his family.
Lo and behold, here's Kyle taking a President of Hockey Ops job when he could have just slid laterally to GM of Pittsburgh. He's still young. But he's now fully self aware (if he wasn't before) that he wants to be pulling the strings a level up.
As for him saying he wouldn't pop up elsewhere - if he'd been fired for performance reasons, then he would've taken it personally and wanted to reflect before moving on. Because he was fired for going off script at a press conference instead, that no longer applies. Guy probably feels he should have been Shanahan's boss.
This is coming from a leafs fan. I honestly wish him the best and pittsburgh got a good guy in Dubas.
He said he wanted to come back and couldnt see himself be a gm for another team and technically he's not lol.
Personnally as a leafs fan it did seem like him and his family, (with his family an extension of himself, as it should be), wasnt all in on being a leafs gm.
The big difference i see with what you've said is yes, you are allowed to have doubts, and who wouldn't? but should those doubts be publicly displayed? What happens if i went on facebook tagging my employer and said im not sure if i want to do this anymore. You'd have a safe bet I'd be let go too.
Have your doubts, but keep those doubts behind closed doors so that the media and the fanbase doesnt see you as wishy washy.
I honeslty think him as president makes more sense than gm.
Good luck to Dubas in Pittsburgh.
I will just say this since im in the toronto bubble. What got Dubas fired was that several days after the press conference a counter offer was made that was 50% increase in salary and more autonomy over hockey operations. Ehether Shanahan felt he was going for his job? We will never know.
1:58 thats a great take, 5:59 another amazing take
I have no idea what this guy said or didn't say in Toronto.
Loyalty? Loyalty is for friends and family. Not for employer / employee.
Only fools have loyalty to their employer.
Your employer would fire you in a second if it meant for profits.
As the employee, you need to do what's best for you. Even if your employer is great you need to look out for yourself above all else
Welcome back
if demko and/or swayman are available that would help the penguins quite a bit.
Speaking to your point about the importance of family. Like you said,Dubas specifically said his wife encouraged him to go visit PGH. People really underestimate how important that is to making a decision like that.
“That’s how you end up single”.
Yup! Lol
Hockey guy i loved those early 90s jerseys that grey was sweet very colorful
When he says longterm he is talking about me his hockey son, keep up the good work Hockey Dad! I enjoy Dubas interviews
Good for Dubas. He’ll likely win a cup before Shanny.
Maybe if he won more than 1 playoff round, he would have had an easier time.
Maybe if the players played better....
@@penguinsfan251 Maybe,
Great commentary
Insightful video, from a far tooo long leaf fan. Thanks
Jump ship.
I’m so happy rn LGP! 🐧
In terms of the interim GM title, my understanding is partially what you said, but also it’s now too close to the draft and FA that it’s difficult to be able to get permission to talk to someone and have them able to actively participate with the team before mid-July anyways - See Brad Treliving not being allowed at Toronto’s draft table.
Love this hire
Shannon reads a tweet and reacts. He is officially a man of the internet.
Been here since 2016….you were definitely a lot less organized back in the day lol. But you still had the charm haha. Siiiick Pens gear.
This entire time I thought the Hockey Guy's name was Shelby lol
So the NHL can cycle through the same coaches and GM's and nobody bats an eye but GOD FORBID Dubas get another job!
I love this as a pens fan. I believe Kyle will turn things around and get us back in the playoffs!
Really love this as a Pens fan.
In every corporation loyalty only applies in one direction....
It's just typical Toronto fans being Toronto fans... What were they expecting? Did they really expect Dubas to sit at home all day with no job, no income, and not find a new job?? Toronto fans are something else...
THANK YOU FOR THIS.
That Fischler tweet was straight-up garbage.
The Penguins’s ownership has short patience with their president and GM. Kyle Dubas will last no more than two seasons if he can’t get the team past Round 1 of the playoffs!
I wish Dubas the best in Pittsburgh.
The only real question I had over his time in Toronto was some of the money spent, but I'm not an NHL GM.
Great analysis. Thanks for doing this. I wouldn’t bet against Syd and company either.
Leaf fan here, my point of view is he's no longer apart of the team so who cares what he does lol
Agreed, I'm a 58 year old life long Leaf fan and I am officially done wth Shanahan and the Leafs.
A Penguins fan now, already have my Pens jersey on order.
I'm surprised they let Fischler have a cell phone at the nursing home
Stan never fails to amaze me with his tweets
I thought the Pens could be in for a long brutal rebuild but this a great move for the organization. Dubas is a GM that makes star players want to stay and can also put together a solid team. Brendan Shanahan is going to be taking the heat on this one for years to come.
No money is what makes start players want to stay. You think players are loyal to a gm or team? No, maybe in the last few years of their careers a little bit but when they are in their prime it's all about money.
@Planck Snail He's also nearing the end of his career and it was the last contract of his career as I stated there are some exceptions for those at the end. Reading helps you a lot. If he was in his prime do you think he would of taken a cut, no in fact he was the highest paid player in the league when he signed his prior contract. Bottom line, money talks. Or do you think he would of stayed if Pitt was in a rebuilding mode, heck no he wouldn't of. He would of left like you see so many other veterans. Don't kid yourself if you think these guys are sticking around for the good of the team, in fact the players union tells them to get as much as they possibly can because it raises all other salaries in the process. My gosh always has to be that one guy that points out sydney crosby took less, and it's not like he took a few millions less it wasn't much less. AGain read what I said.
It’s always good form to not badmouth a previous employer, and in many cases employers prevent you from making disparaging comments. All good. That’s not signing away your rights to your future, just to maintain decorum. Dubas is handling this in a classy manner.
You don't mess with Sea Bass! 😅
His wife sounds pretty smart 😁