Didn't elaborate on the "XC1 has no artstyle" comment here because I've talked about it before but tl;dr the character models and official art weren't based on designs made from a concept artist but instead made to fit the costume designs so they weren't trying to be any particular artist's style. Takahashi quote: "For the original Xenoblade Chronicles game, this character design artwork simply didn’t exist; all we had were costume designs for the clothing the characters wore. This meant we were forced to create the CG character models to fit those costume designs. And what’s more, the only artwork released of those characters were retouched versions of their CG models - there was no concept art to speak of, not like [what XC2 had] at any rate." Source: nintendoeverything.com/tetsuya-takahashi-reflects-on-the-art-of-xenoblade-chronicles-2/
oh yeah the video was also supposed to have this edit I made a few days ago as the intro but it got copyright claimed twitter.com/_Luxin/status/1217195599306600450
The early complaints besides of XC2 looking too anime, and yeah, I also do saw one video talk about how anime make characters more expressive. But you might aware XC2 got the most bash on its fanservice designs, I guess that is the reason why many don't like anime, let alone anime fanservice (big boobs, skimpy outfits, etc...), maybe you can made your retrospective view on that debacle lol.
Just gonna throw this out there, but I think the natural implication of saying "becoming more *thing" is that it becomes more reflective of the generic/stereotypical aspects of whatever that thing is. I don't think anyone is saying it shouldn't be a standout Japanese animation project, I think people just don't want it to become more generic with each passing game. To explain, 2 is still very Xenoblade, but it has a lot of, not just tropes, but cliches that are most common in anime released in recent years. It's like comparing Cowboy Bebop to SAO to... I don't know, black clover or something like that. Bebop is seen as a time standing classic, SAO is seen as red meat for casuals and kinda defined the generic isekai, and Black Clover is seen as totally derivative of Naruto, Fairy Tale, Bleach, etc. That's not to say these don't each have their own audiences or deserve them, but I believe that many of the complaining fans see the franchise as one they want every entry of to feel like a Cowboy Bebop classic, and less of a generic styled show that leads to it being a part of a played out genre as isekais are often seen this day, or, worse yet, nobody wants Xenoblade games to feel derivative, even if they are derivative in many ways to what came before, people just don't want it to feel that way. Does that make sense? Kinda hard to express it in writing. Oh, but most of all, none of the fans want it to feel like that cell phone isekai, the one that feels like it's just reaching for ideas and is isekai fodder anime. Nobody wants Xenoblade to ever feel like a fodder game. I think the X1 remake looks like a nice middle ground, in terms of art style, though there is a bit less detail and the colors do feel a bit less organic to me so far. I personally liked the more organic color palette of the original release, so far, but I'll see how I feel when I get the game. I just hope they don't stick to following the popular mechanic or art design of the day, like being so fan service-y or putting in mechanics like the gatcha system into 2 again. Just cause it's popular now does not mean that those decisions will hold up well in 10 or 20 years. I think games should be designed with the long-term in mind like that
@@Chronoflation The Xeno series has always had the "flavor of the day" anime art style. Xenogears' art style is very typical for anime in that time period. It's only looking at it retroactively that it's unique because it's not the common art style these days. What makes Xeno games stand the test of time is the writing and the themes the story tells. If you push aside the Xenoblade 1 bias for a second, you see many people who end up loving Xenoblade 2 for the characters and the story, and the dark underlying themes used in it. Now everyone has their preferences. People can prefer the story of Xenoblade 1 more and the presentation of it, but Xenoblade 2 has remained as popular if not more since its release. The story has depth that people can revisit and dive into. The main issue people talk about is the character designs. I won't say Xenoblade 2 had the best character designs, but many of the core characters do have good designs. Nia, Morag, Poppi, Zeke, Amalthus, Jin, Malos, etc. But people just focus on Rex and Pyra and complain about them as if all the characters were as off-putting as them. Though I think Rex's design fits him. As for the "generic artstyle," the artist has worked on anime before, and it is identical to that work. But it still has it's own unique flavor that doesn't make it feel entirely generic. More importantly, seeing the characters in motion really emphasizes their personality with how expressive they are. Just look at the countless amounts of memes from just the facial animations. If you were judging the games as just a still image, then most of the Xeno games are generic anime. But these are not still images. They are video games with story telling, character development, choreographed cutscenes, world building, and so on. People can get too wrapped up in one thing they don't like that they ignore the other elements of the game that makes it great. It's not a perfect game. None of the Xeno games are. But they have a dedicated fanbase because of the stories these games have to tell, and the ambition they have to tell them.
Characters still have a cohesive look, and that one is of more realistic facial and body proportions. How can a video game or piece of art not have an artstyle anyway? If you mean that it’s more realistic or generic, then that still counts as an artstyle.
My friend hates how “anime” the last few Nintendo Directs have been. By which she means that she hates JRPGS, and she hates that there are so many of them.
Parcel Form your friend is complaining about Japanese RPGs, arguably one of the largest genres in Japanese gaming, coming to a system primarily designed for a Japanese audience. Hate to be that guy but if she doesn’t like JRPGs then she might prefer systems like Xbox more.
I don't hate anime, I hate the dorky kiddy anime. Stuff like Akira, Ghost in the Shell, and even Evangellion is cool All that cringee ADHD crap that's aimed at the waifubu types needs to burn.
@@ShallBePurified Yeah, that's a great example honestly. It's something that should cement the idea of "not every game will be the way you expect it". It's kind of weird to think about really because Final Fantasy USED to be like that, and it makes sense because none of the Final Fantasy's are really the same as each other and yet since 13, we've gotten this very samey art style for all the modern games now. Even the FF7 remake no longer shares the art style the original had in vision. That's not even down to the graphical limitations. FF7 had official character designs that used a distinct art style. We no have the graphical power to mimic that art style but they choose not to because SE is kinda prideful of how flashy they can make their games look.
@Wil E Heart to hearts are better than Fire Emblem Support conversations prior to Three Houses (which Xenoblade 2 was released before Three Houses). Three Houses really improved the writing and presentation of the support conversations from the prior entries. Social Links/Confidants are also goals you specifically build towards whereas heart to hearts just open up naturally as the bond between the characters increase from just using them in battles and sidequests. A closer comparison to Confidants would be rare blade quests in Xenoblade 2 or affinity missions in Xenoblade X.
@@ShallBePurified I disagree, the support conversations in Fire Emblem Echoes, Sacred Stones, Path of Radiance, and Blazing Sword, and even Awakening all had support conversations with good writing. The ones without good writing were always comedic and funny
You know, Xenoblade 2 is what actually got me back into watching anime after not watching any since the original Pokémon: Indigo League anime; and because of it I've gotten to see so many wonderful, and questionable, anime these past couple years.
@@AdamTheGameBoy I haven't seen it yet. It's one that's on my list of anime that I need to watch; same with FMAB and Death Note. Some notable anime for me has to be the Monogatari Series, Angel Beats, Bunny Girl Senpai, Oresuki, Konosuba, Shield Hero, Love Chunibyo & Other Delusions!, My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU, Toradora, Another, Re:Zero, A Sister's All You Need, and so many more. I'd say the anime that has actually made me laugh out unlike anything I've ever seen has to be Shimoneta. That one somewhat falls into the more questionable side of anime I've seen; along with High School DxD, Oreimo, and Eromanga Sensei just to name a few.
Adam's Analysis Ive watched re zero (my favorite anime) because the opening reminded me of pyra and rex. There was a scene reminiscent of rex first seeing pyra lmao
@@captainmega6310 Eh, I suppose they'd be about a coherent story, sensible terminology, no tech-babble just for the purpose of sounding tech-y, but also consistent naming conventions. Monolith Soft are quite good about that sort of thing already, so if they just dialled down on the goofy and yoinked the gatcha we'd be golden.
Monolithsoft actually decided to make XC2 look more anime because they felt that the character models in 1 looked kind of stiff. If you watch the XCDE trailer again and also look up the new renders for Shulk and Fiora, you can see that they've corrected that problem for Definitive Edition. They struck a nice balance--everyone looks more anime with that cell-shaded style, but without stuff like the "anime eyes" that some of 2's characters had.
I was one of the "rare" fans who was excited to see a more anime art style because Xenoblade X had some of the most unenthusiastic facial expressions. The characters either had a neutral expression or a pissed expression. Seeing the new art style they can actually make good facial expressions and they completely exceeded in that. And now they are giving Xenoblade 1 the same treatment and I am excited for it. People can complain about the art style all they want. What I care about is how expressive they make the characters feel.
This whole "I hate it because it's anime" reminds me a lot of people criticizing some games as "over the top". Aka the characters performing feats far beyond what humans can do like destroying buildings or whatever. Here's my take: It's a fictional story, embrace the insanity, embrace the over the top, you're only limiting your story by trying to be "normal," or "western" in this case.
I was never a fan for realism in games, or the need to make a game look and act like people in real life. Persona 3-5 does this well but other games forget that it's a game and not real life. If people want a game based on things only people in real life could do, how about you either don't play games, or watch a movie. I like the worlds in Xenoblade because of how their world are, it's different from your usual jrpgs/rpgs.
I think if you look at the xeno games as a whole they have a parallel with the legend of heros: trails series, where there have been tropes through out them but they emphasize on them more now because they are making a new cast every game (or every couple of games) and having a character fit into a trope at the beginning help you feel like you know how they will act in certain situations and they don’t have to explain the to the player every time. Even though they grow out of the tropes later in the games
Gonna have to give a hard NO on the idea of an OP. Look, just because both JRPGs and anime are made by the same country, that doesn't mean that literally every single aspect of both has to be exactly the same, or that they should basically copy each other. A simple title screen is good enough for me.
The original Xenoblade’s title screen theme would fit pretty well for an opening though, and it just a better presentation IMO and just a little more welcoming than just a title screen. They wouldn’t even have to make a dedicated one, just some cinematic shots of the playable characters in battle, maybe some cutscene cut outs too. Showing off some areas would be cool too.
I prefer the title screens recent Xeno games have aswell. Just sitting there, listening to the great music and a calm title screen makes me hyped up everytime.
Reminds me of the Fire Emblem peoples, I can understand some of their qualms about the anime tropes in the recent series, but its been in there since the start.
Exactly, but IMO Three Houses has improved on it a bit. It made me feel like the characters aren’t just cookie cutter tropes and actually had more depth to them.
Yeah, but 2 was definitely a genre shift. It's almost like going from Yu Yu Hakusho to Gintama. Both are totally anime, but that doesn't mean they're appealing to the same crowd. Besides, everyone knows that when people complain about it being too anime that they're referring to it taking on too many generic anime tropes/cliches. Kinda like watching a magical school anime that's adapted from a light novel, you basically know what's gonna happen before it happens because they're all so derivative and formulaic, in most cases. Likewise, if you showed me a picture of Rex before the game came out and told me he was from a Ys game or an Atelier game, or any number of other anime franchise games, I wouldn't have doubted you. And, had I not known he was from a Xenoblade game, I would've doubted you when you told me. I think that's the aspect of it that people get nervous about.
ChronoFlation sorry but are you saying xenoblade 1 ISNT derivative and formulaic? i’m not going to imply xenoblade 2 is a whole lot better in that respect, but xenoblade 1 has a verrrrry unoriginal story. by the time you reach agniritha, the game has commited so hard to being a bootleg xenogears that you can practically get a real life vision seeing the next several hours of cutscenes unfold before they happen. egil has a few lines that are almost word for word copies of miang. i can see why you would prefer the tone of xb1 as it’s more “down to earth,” but it’s just as, if not more derivative than xb2
@@plaip6404 Yeah, but that's the thing, it's derivative of the creators own previous works. That makes sense. Like how every band has a sound that is unmistakably "that band" for most of their soundtracks. Xenoblade 2 feels like it's taking from generic anime tropes/cliches and character art. The point isn't that it's derivative, it's that it's derivative of such common tropes. Games can be good with those elements, but it just felt too aware that it was playing off anime tropes and too aware of its own memes, like Rex's battle dialogue about the power of friendship and that stuff. It's so generic and self-aware it's pretty disgusting to me. But hey, I've watched a lot more anime than I've played games, so maybe I'm just more aware of these sorts of things. I mostly hate 2 for its mechanics, optimization, menus, and story. The derivative stuff is just a general "I hope they don't try to incorporate too many oversaturated anime tropes and jokes into the future games, I'm fine with a one off though"
If you think there's wasn't anything deep in XC2 beyond the tropes then you must not have played the game. Fucking story had so much complexity and emotion going on. Jin and Lora's sad back story is proof of that. Jin is so deep of a character. And there's more to Rex than his design. His personality really makes him stand out IMO. And if u think the badass armor he gets in chapter 7 is generic looking then u need to get your eyes checked. Also just so we're clear I don't see what's so bad about tropes to begin with. I enjoy the medium of anime FOR the tropes it brings. If u don't like the way anime does story telling and comedy etc. then why the fuck are you watching it. I think XC2 was a fantastic game. Through and through 🙌🔥
@@gonisbestboy659 If you're directing this towards me, I played the whole main game and put in 90 hours. And yeah, Jin and Lora had a great backstory. Too bad they were barely in the game. The game is full of red meat for people to get into the lore, but that's all there to cover up the fact that the main story basically shows that the main cast are a bunch of random people who don't know shit about each other going on and on about friendship when they don't even know Morag is a girl. The themes betray the writing, and I'm not gonna forgive poor writing for major points of the main plot just cause the game throws in some deep lore and backstories. And anime comedy is great... in comedy series. But Naruto stepping in shit doesn't make his series as funny as Gintama, and Xenoblade 2 throwing in otaku culture jokes and memes doesn't make it a better written game. On top of that, 2D visual gags tend to look jarring in 3D and this game was full of them. Btw, I don't think I complained about his armor. Whenever I say Rex has a bad design, I'm referring to his face. I've seen better detail in 2D anime. Naruto characters have less flat looking faces than Rex and Pyra. The 2 of them look like their faces were ripped out of a moe anime, not even a shounen. It's pathetic when we have examples like Zeke, Morag, Jin, Malos, and even plenty of child and adult NPCs who all have more detail and depth in their facial designs. So yes, I did play the game. I played the original too, multiple times, and I've played X multiple times. This is the only one that I did not enjoy no matter how hard I tried, and I've put a lot of thought into it because I really wanted to like the game. But, for me, it's shit. That's all there is to it
I think a somewhat simple way to combine the world design and the story is to let you chat with your teammates. One example is the Dragon Quest games, in 4 and 11, you can just talk to your team whenever and they'll talk about what just happened in the story, what's going on around you currently and other little things like that.
My main complaint when things become "too anime" is when their character is shoved aside to become cliched. (I haven't played the Xenogears games) I prefer XC1 and Trona's characters (Torna Mythra excluded) a lot more than XC2 because they felt distincter. XC2's cast relied more on tropes to define their characters. I feel as though saying XC1 didn't count because it didn't have an art style is a cop out. There have always been genres that haven't been defined in art, music, or games but they later became established. So to fully rule it out doesn't sit well.
I'm just gonna say right off the bat that i don't have the JRPG experience as everyone else (I only started playing Xenoblade 2/Torna back in December) and my only real experience with JRPGs is pokemon. However, i will have to say that i believe you are right. Why are people wanting a Japanese company to suddenly switch the artstyle, theme, acting, etc to a more western style? If that's the case why are you even playing JRPGs to begin with? Why aren't you playing western rpgs? Aside from the voice acting and the poor lip syncing with xenoblade 2 (Although im on the side of Nia's voice being amazing in XBC2, welsh cat girl is awesome, fight me) the story was amazing and you could tell the creative juices were flowing in the world builders. I loved the concept of the titans, the cloud sea, and bringing a fantasy more grounded to reality. I personally don't care what art style they use, if they made a good story (even if some PARTS of it weren't great) it's still a good story regardless. Now that being said, i do have some grievances with the art style *cough* Dalia *cough* but im not going to fault them for a couple mistakes in an otherwise amazing game. I will say, i came into this game and was consistently amazed at the size and detail of it. I was a huge player of WoW for a decade, and of course i do have grievances with how the game is being handled right now. But as i played Xenoblade 2, i was consistently impressed with the sheer amount of stuff to do. Side quests everywhere, each character able to be built up and have their own little story, the game getting bigger and bigger as i continued playing, it just sucked me in as an amazing experience. So with that being said, ill take the sub par voice acting and lip syncing, or art choices like the extremely busty Dalia or the trap Floren in stride and just enjoy a game that is rich in player experience.
Xenoblade 2 felt like a generic seasonal anime at first story wise and got good a few chapters in and that made it a bit hard to enjoy at first. It was a bit too comedic and lightheartrd compared to the other games being more serious. Taste is subjunctive and I prefer the franchise being more serious
Finally, someone else says it. It totally feels like a seasonal every-show anime, like this season's isekai or black clover or something like that. I prefer it being more unique, so each game can be looked back on as a classic, like Cowboy Bebop, Yu Yu Hakusho, Baccano, Steins;Gate. These all had varying amounts of comedy and art directions, but they all feel like shows that stand out in some way among their contemporaries, aside from maybe Yu Yu Hakusho's art style (that was pretty quintessential early 90s anime). But even that made up for the more generic look with the occasional use of more unique animation techniques, like the episode where Hiei tames the black flame dragon, or the one where Yusuke had to fight the human doctor, and it had excellent writing and character development. Xenoblade should have a style that can leave an impression like these shows. Also, the characters just shouldn't suffer from flat face syndrome like Mythra and Rex had. But that's maybe more of a nitpick. I just want them to be standalone experiences that will stand the test of time and 2 just feels totally like a late 2010s generic anime to me
Well Tetsuya Takahashi did say that XC2 was always intended to be like that. It was a supposed to be his first attempt at making a light hearted story. Since he never made an RPG like that and he wanted to take a different direction for once, because he felt that all of his previous works had a dark/depressing tone in some way.
gundamzerostrike I can only disagree with this and see it the opposite way: The characters in 2 are based too much on their tropes and they feel like walking memes. 1 is generally a lot more serious and I prefer it’s cast much to 2’s. Tldr: Really, all in all, I’m fine with Anime, but not with overused and unoriginal tropes and the overly comedic aspect of 2 should be kept lower. The plot twists in 1 were also more thrilling than any of 2’s, but 2 at least had a nice throwback twist at the end with the world tree. As someone mentioned before, Anime can also be serious, 2 just isn’t. Dunban’s Blossom Dance quote: “Born in a world of strife, against the odds we choose to fight.” Just describes it perfectly. In a world of strife they choose to fight against the Mechon and every character does have their reason to do so. I was digressing a little there, but even if characters like Reyn (actually pretty much only him and partially Sharla, I guess) have been memed to death, they still have some awesome moments to shine. And Reyn really only is a clown for least of the time, most of the time he’s normal. I just love the relationships the characters build in 1 and being able to change outcomes for all major areas through an actual affinity chart, affecting many side characters. And Shulk is just generally a better protagonist, you really can’t argue with that. I get that Rex goes through some development during the latter story, but he just isn’t really a good main character and should have rather been a side character traveling with the game’s actual main character.
I actually don't want fanservice gone. Sexuality has been demonized a lot as of late in gaming which always results in the western versions of games getting ridiculous censorships while the east keeps the game as is anyway. Fanservice in xenoblade hasn't been intrusive to me personally and I think said sex appeal is offered in scenes that aren't serious in the first place. No real reason to remove it imo, sex appeal isn't a bad thing.
Just going to point out, cutscene animations on Xenoblade 2 (And Torna) where done by Graphinica (A 3D anime studio) not Monolith Soft, Masatsugu Saito (Main character designer) had previously worked with them on a film called Expelled from paradise
Zeke and co kinda felt more like a Team Rocket to me than a rival. Not to say I hate the idea of a Team Rocket type of trope since it was hilarious at times but I wouldn't call that rivalry.
Xeno series have always been anime, the diference is that the artsyle and character acquetypes are based arround in the anime of the time each game was released, Xenogears is a lot like a many 90's seinen anime, Xenosaga has desings and tropes that feel like anime from the early 2000's (it even has a beach episode), and since we are experiencing a rise of shounen anime Xenoblade 2 took a lot of inspiration from there
The 2D anime opening is a topic I KINDA disagree with but at the same time it technically can have one. Things I think a lot of games are missing these days are their Intro scenes. It can be a 2D animation, or it can be a CG render that's simply made to hype the player up before starting. Not a lot of games have them these days, but all the hypest games from back in the day did. Smash Bros Melee, Sonic Adventure, Gotcha Force (literally did have a 2D anime opening), Kirby Air Ride, etc... Really the short answer is that really an anime opening should be an after-thought. That sounds like I'm asking for something with zero passion but really stuff like that needs to be decided once the game is essentially complete. I think games will ALWAYS be worthy of an opening intro but what kind of intro? Decide that once we know what mood it suits. Personally, when it comes to video games I'll always prefer CG rendered cut-scenes despite being an anime fan. As something that's often visualised in 3D, I like to see the visual cohesion of the media it's mostly portrayed in. It's a complete disconnect for me when it wants to be 2 different forms of media. That said, I'm also the type of guy who's easily bothered by the fact that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had WAYYY too many characters artists which meant that a lot of them simply look out of place standing next to each other. I've looked a lot over the internet and realise this is a minority complaint that I haven't heard much elsewhere but to me it'd be the equivalent of having Toon Link from Wind Waker standing next to a more gritty and realistic Samus in her grim alien worlds. But back on topic, I'd have to see what kind of tone they go with for the next Xenoblade game. Personally, I agree with most of your points, but with that in mind I don't want the next game to be as light-hearted as XC2. For me personally, the Original Xenoblade Chronicles had the perfect tone. It was a serious story that didn't take itself too seriously. There were gags but not every situation was turned into one. The first Xenoblade was a good example of "we can have light-hearted moments without making a dumb joke out of it". Xenoblade Chronicles 2 too often tried to make you laugh AT all the characters than with them. I like myself some dumb characters (Reyn is a great example) but I feel like too much was riding on the expense of them. The first Xenoblade felt a lot more like some good old banter and that's the absolute best outcome for a story that still wants to be taken seriously. But before people jump on me, I'm well aware that's not what XC2 was going for. That's simply why I'm saying I'd like XC3 to be more like XC1 in that sense. I feel like it appeals to more people as well. It's very easy to run character tropes into the ground and exhaust them if you don't take a breather every so often.
Oh and if I can chime in late on the art STYLE? As I've mentioned, I wasn't a huge fan how there was no cohesion for the character designs in XC2. This of course would have been something I would be okay with if character designers were reduced drastically to fit together more. I'm someone who wouldn't mind if the art style changes with every new entry in the series however. It simply just goes back to whatever tone they're doing for. Right now, I'm actually in love with whoever's style is behind Shulk and Fiora's updated style. That isn't just simply a re-topology to make their old models look better, that's straight up based on a design someone drew and I'm dying to find out who it was. If THAT designer were to do all the designs for XC3? I think we could rest easy.
I think the next XC3 will be attempt to be closer to Xenogears and go the way of adapting the Perfect Works concepts, since that's what Monolith Soft is clearly building up to by making the connections and all the call backs. Its also Takahashi grand dream project that he could finally achieved now that Xenoblade is a successful series. He also kinda foreshadowed it in an interview when he said “The Xenoblade series might go down a path it hasn't gone to before” So you might see something thats more different then both XC1 and XC2 next time.
This video feels like it cuts off early accidentally. Anyways, good points! I'm okay with Xenoblade taking even more inspiration from anime, but I also do want the next game to have better female character designs, as you noted, and a smaller cast.
My family has always prided itself on tradition. Despite all the chaos and unrest in the world these days, we always find time for the simple things. It's been a calming effect on my life, knowing that however crazy it gets when I'm off on my own, when I come back home I know exactly the warm family welcome I can expect. One tradition I think I can do without, though, is my grandmother's Christmas pie. Every year, she makes an apple pie as a desert for Christmas dinner. When I was a kid, I would help her cut the apples into slices; there was a super neat crank apparatus that would slowly slice its way through. It was very satisfying to turn the crank, and young me was eager to help out. That all changed the first time I tried it, though. I don't know what my grandma did to screw up an apple and cinnamon pie, but that thing was rancid. She was very defensive of it, and insisted everybody try it. As my cousins and I slowly worked our way through our horrible mandatory slices, I had enough. I stood up and told my grandma, "I don't want this pie! I don't want any more Christmas desert!" One thing I do want, however, is to tell you about Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War. It's a tactics game directed by Shouzou Kaga where you take control of a colorful and diverse cast of over 45 characters and command then in strategic turn-based battles. Watch beautiful hand-drawn graphics as your army wields a wide variety of weapons in an easy-to-learn, hard-to-master combat system. Join Sigurd, Paladin of Grannvale on his quest to win back the world from the evil clutches of Dukes Reptor and Langbalt. Play for free today!
I know this is unrelated to this vid but I hope we get a game where u play as a prequel of xenoblade chronicles 1&2 for either Zanzas or the architect point of view to before the explosion
Rex is what I don't want a repeat of tbh. I really don't like shounen protagonists. Granted, I don't really want more of X's protagonist situation either. I want a unique and well developed protagonist, not a shounen archetype or a blank slate. Shulk kinda sorta falls under the shounen story archetype, but at least he's not nearly as infuriatingly immature as Rex.
I will always believe an Anime artstyle is better than attempting photo realism it gives them more personality and allows the game to stand out from others, not to mention that an anime style allows for more expressive characters
My problem with XC2 was that the story and character moments got super trope-y. XC1 and XG mostly bucked the tropes of anime by taking them into new and fascinating areas. XC2 fell back on them and let it sit. XC2 also had a poor world-building in the second half of the game. I was super invested in the first 4 or so chapters, but once you got to Indol, things just kinda drifted apart and didn't make sense.
I actually kinda like the more light-hearted, tropes but with actual detail in them, character-focused vibe of 2 a bit more. Same with the art style. The characters feel like Jojo's part 4 or Persona 4 to me, and those were my favorite parts of those series. I also just weirdly enjoy the way they colored skin and eyes in 2. I kinda couldn't help looking at the various eyes and mentally noting how simultaneously grounded and detailed textures looked, from Titan to Nopon to Blade. Also the cloud sea reminds me of Skylanders, and that's legitimately one of the only series I can claim to be nostalgic for.
2:47 Well that's part of the problem, I think there ARE tons of xeno fans that DO want the series to become a western RPG. I think it's stupid to think that a Japanese company should do such a drastic 180 in style just because some fans want it to but...here we are. Generally I would also say that people who feel this way are kind of cherry picking what they like about the series. Maybe they like the characters but dislike the occasional inclusion of anime-esque comedy sprinkled throughout. Unfortunately the issue is that you can't decouple the good character writing from the Japanese influence and tropes. Neither one is any more or less central to the identity of the series at a whole. Also, in my personal opinion, no game is perfect, and if you are really a fan, you have to take the good with the bad. Both of those sides of xenoblade are what xenoblade is at its core. You can't have one without the other
“Ugh, I hate anime. Monolithsoft should make this stuff more western, so it’ll be more acceptable instead of all that Japanese BS.” -People who forget that Monolithsoft is a Japanese company.
If the franchise going more anime means the XC2 action scenes staying then I’m all for it. Also all the complaints about the tropes in XC2 I never really got because I never really noticed it when playing and I have about 331 hours played at the time making this comment. It seems to me the tropes in XC2 get really overblown like I only noticed them in two scenes and they’re scenes I like. Also wasn’t the reason why the game had a more anime art style is because people complained about X being to western?
I still want a Xenoblade X prequel or gaiden anime. Follow the adventures of the people on the whale or another ship during the journey, have them deal with minor and season long difficulties like gathering and conserving resources, dealing with the trauma of earth and family being gone, fighting off and hiding from ganglion or ghosts, wondering if they should cull a portion of their passengers to reduce the resource drain and ensure some survive. There's a long of interesting and mature things they could cover. The best animes touch on the gray where there isn't an easy or right answer; sometimes there are just bad choices or a safe, but bad choice and a very risky good choice. An X anime would have the recipe to be one of the best animes
I’m sorry I commented twice I usually don’t but every time Lora does her little one kick in he malos fight scene and how pissed he looks is the funniest thing
I disagree, I liked Xenoblade for its mature yet at times funny themes and interesting interpersonal relationships. Xenoblade 2 lost some of its authenticity with how it implemented certain anime tropes and designs. I beat Xenoblade 2 but couldn't take the game seriously after I realized that the game is drastically different in themes from Xenoblade 1. It's so bad that I wouldn't want to replay Xenoblade 2
Okan Cihan personally I feel the opposite way, Xenoblade 1 imo felt like it lost a lot of “authenticity” from the previous games with its much simpler story and characters. Especially after you meet egil and the whole story became very predictable and boring. Xenoblade 2 has a lot more obvious stupid “anime” stuff like character designs and fanservice. But it was a lot darker, had more interesting characters and I found the interpersonal relationships and politics a lot more interesting than blade1. Idk blade1 never really felt “xeno” to me, it was very simple and basic. But I think it literally wasn’t a xeno game when it started development so maybe that’s why
I agree, the cliche tropes were far too much. The implementation of 2D gags into the 3D cutscenes were jarring, and the implementations of mechanics like time limited pouch items that continue use until you run out were horrible. The map is also one of the worst I've ever had the displeasure of using. And they totally put in the gatcha system just cause gatcha is super popular in japan right now. Between the fan service, gatcha, and art direction, it is clear that the game was appealing to the lowest common denominator of Japanese fan. The older games gave the player far more direct control of their stats, bluffs, and gameplay style, which I vastly prefer, and the art direction, while clearly limited due to hardware, was very unique and fit with the more down to earth tone of the games (despite 1 being on 2 titans and X being on an alien world). It's like the entire franchise shifted from a series of passion project dramas (maybe X was a space opera?) into being an action-comedy with 2. Not my thing at all.
Xenoblade 2 has a much darker theme than Xenoblade 1 did. Xenoblade 1 was darker on the surface with a grittier style and execution of its story, but Xenoblade 2 had more realistic themes to our reality and it hits harder when you pick up on those themes.
@@plaip6404 It wasn't meant to be a Xeno game. Takahashi had an interview talking about it and how it was supposed to be a standalone thing with a basic narrative structure. It's just the game had amazing execution for the story so even if you saw it coming, it was a spectacle to witness it.
I'm okay with this actually. However if Xenoblade X were to get a sequel, it should be a more western approach. Doesn't mean it won't be anime like, it should just have more western themes.
Frank HardyI find that highly unlikely, considering the last time a Xeno game went with a realistic art style was Xenosaga Ep2 and everyone even some of the devs hated it, sooo
And just like that, you lost me, I'm honestly tired of seeing over used anime tropes in JRPGs. Edit: I suppose I should've been more clear with what I'm trying to say. Anime tropes in JRPGs are pretty much unavoidable, but what does matter is how well it's done and whether or not those tropes are portrayed in a way that hinders the overall immersion and feel if the experience. I'm aware that even my favorite JRPGs of all time (Final Fantasy series, SMT series and spinoffs, The Xeno series, Drakengard/Nier, Radiant Historia, Bravely series, Octopath Traveler, TWEWY, and so many more) have anime tropes in them, but are written in a way that doesn't pander to the lowest common denominator (weeaboos). However, if you were to recommend me a game like persay, any Compile Heart game, any Persona game after P3, ANY Dragon Quest game, I'd decline respectively because the tropes written in those games get annoying pretty fast. What I'm trying to say or what I should've said is that the Xeno series is perfectly fine the way it is, but if the games were to start pandering to weeaboos (to an even greater extent than XB2), I would drop the franchises outright like I did with Persona 4. TL;DL, I'm talking about the cringe inducing weeaboo stuff.
Yea the series has always been anime but imo done tastefully and not in a fan service way. The anime aesthetic compliments the game as whole. I was done with XC2 after fighting that Lolita mech. It really diminishes the impact of the scene after.
The big thing that made me prefer Xenoblade 1 over 2 was that certain aspects, such as the character interactions, in 2 felt too over the top for me. I'm down with crazy over the top attacks/enemies/etc., but seeing Addam fall over dead from eating Mythra's cooking is annoying and takes me out of the experience. Fiora complaining about Shulk always saying her cooking is great feels more like a real interaction, and makes me invested in the characters while also being kind of funny. I would say that over the top character interactions is more commonly associated with anime. There are certainly "anime" aspects that I love, but the melodrama is not one of them.
I think that comes down to personal preference. I personally loved those over the top moments. I think the games being so tonally different is what causes people to be disinterested. It's kinda like the Zelda series where each game have a distinctly different art style and tone for the story. But I love all the Xenoblade games because what they do have in common is amazing world building, lore, and cutscene choreography.
@@ShallBePurified Yes, it definitely is subjective. My intended point, which I didn't actually say, was that the Xeno games shouldn't be more "anime". But neither should they be less "anime". Neither option is objectively better, since different aspects of the games will satisfy different people. For me the story of Xenoblade 1 made me feel much more attached to the characters than 2 did. I still loved 2, but 1 is one of my favorite games of all time, with 2 being nowhere close. I'll also continue to play, and presumably enjoy, future Xeno games. But I don't think you can say they "should" be more anime, since certain aspects of that are more subjective.
Oh but that high school is in an alternate fantasy world. Also all the girls love the black-haired overpowered otaku. Also the big twist is that its actually a video game
“Xenoblade 1 effectively doesn’t have an art style...” Boi, now you lost me; Xenoblade 1’s Artstyle is the least “Anime” of them all, yes, but it is still an artstyle (although I do agree with the statement that ‘Anime’ is mostly a blanket term): 1’s artstyle was meant to fit with the horrendous graphics of the Wii, and rather than try and over exert the console on something as meaningless as it’s graphics, it’s artstyle chose to take advantage of it’s limited console performance by allowing for a more ‘scenic’ approach to its art; emphasizing landscapes and its background instead of its more minute and up close details. Xenoblade X does this as well but with higher res graphics, making the minute details much more noticeable and revealing the less appealing style of the character designs. 2 fixes this single problem again by saying; fuck it, back to generic ‘anime’-esque. Just for an elaboration on 1’s style, it uses the blurring effect of the Wii’s graphical prowess to give a sort of Watercolor or Pastel effect on backgrounds, while hiding character details. Other than that, yeah, the anime style is something I do prefer (I just don’t think that warrants knocking down what 1 accomplished).
No, what he meant was Xenoblade 1 literally did not have an art style before the game was made. They didn't have any character designs or a style. They only had clothing designs, and they made models that would match the clothing. The artwork was drawn after the character models. You could make the argument that the artstyle is the character models they used, but in the context of what Luxin meant, he means Xenoblade 1 didn't have a specific style of character art when it was made. Usually most Japanese developed games have concept art of how the characters look before making a model of them. Xenoblade 1 was the opposite.
btw, Xenoblade is somewhat like tales of series but with greater quality. I do agree that Xenoblade should be more like Trails series (legend of heroes) but with lots of action cutscenes. And I highly highly doubt Xenogears will be used for anything. This is not the focus of squaresoft neither nintendo. Xenoblade succeded, not Xenogears neither Xenosaga. And I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong but, Xenogears will not happen in this decade.
Instantly disagree. You know for a fact that it's just shorthand. The series should not become too referential. That will date the games if they're explicitly doing that. Of course small things, like using Eva color schemes for a mechanical character or robot, or other visual references to classics basically never hurts, but any spoken references can easily become too "on the nose". I also agree about being more expressive, but that does not mean that they need to completely change the art style to do that. Shulk was able to show some pretty good expression at the climax of the first Metal Face fight, despite the limited animations of that game, and I think just improving the animations and properly modeling the characters would do plenty to enable emotional expression without going for the stereotypical anime art style. Just look at Megalobox, Cowboy Bebop, Baccano, etc, there are plenty of expressive designs that do not require the stereotypical anime art styles like they used in 2 for the main cast. Heck, even in 2, look at the Jin and Malos. The 2 of them had designs that looked almost like they were ripped out of X and they were easily able to emote and have their emotions recognized. They also had more depth to their features due to the art style, as opposed to Rex or Mythra who suffer from flat-face syndrome. That said, I agree with you that they should cut back on the ecchi-styled fan service and not go too far into shounen cliche tropes. Using the in service power system more in cut scenes would definitely be good, especially if they do that instead of having cutscene exclusive mechanics, like how Rex's foresight skill is used only in cutscenes. Slowing down the point a to point b aspects of the game to emphasize exploring the new areas would be a great upgrade too. The friendly rival thing I'm not for. If we're taking notes from Pokemon, I'd prefer an asshole like Gary, and have his pre joining party arc be a redemption arc where he acknowledges the main party and only then becomes a friend. Let him keep his snark, not be an asshole per se, but not have him be standoffish either. Just make him snarky and it'll be a good transition, I think. I also like the OP idea, but let's take reference from another Nintendo game for this too. Namely, Fire Emblem Three Houses. They don't need to be exposition over a cathedral's image like that game, but a shorter piece of animation that updates the player to the current events. Like a 20 second opening for each chapter as opposed to 3 or 4 openings used for a third or quarter of the game. I think that'll make it less repetitive and it can help with world building more. I do not want them to hint at future events too much with openings. A lot of them accidentally expose the major villains or secrets in them, and I know that isn't required, but I would be far too nervous to watch any of the openings in my first playthroughs if they did take that anime opening structure. That's just my perspective
I don’t mind the anime art style, but the constant reliance on tropes in XC2 really dulled my enjoyment of the game. They need to get rid of the one dimensional trope characters, their cutscenes were painful to get through.
I highly disagree that they are one dimensional. There are tropes used for comedic moments and for shorthand story telling to get the general idea of the character (literally every story uses tropes to some degree), but there is more to each of the characters than what they show on the surface, and we see this through their small interactions with each other and their dialogue outside of cutscenes. It adds context to their actions in the story and their motives all feel realistic for their history.
Maybe you should look up what a trope actually is instead of parroting a complaint formula from the school of Sarkeesian. Identifying a trope does not prove that you have conquered some art with cleverness. Itemizing the tropes in some piece of culture is just an utterly worthless, self-importantly boring thing to do. At best you are identifying a cliché and nothing more. Instead of trying to sound smart (in reality sounding stupid) just say you don't like this or that because reason. But for the love of God do us all a favour and frame it as a critique and not a complaint and why you're personally offended.
@@mrpyrostorm3165 Uh... Are you sure you're not the one offended? I just simply disagreed and explained why I disagreed. This isn't a competition on who can act the most pretentious.
*Ah shit, here we go again.* Fuck Nintendo, give us the damn Direct with some Xenoblade DE news already, cus I'm just tired of these "Xenoblade should/shouldn't be this or that" discussions lol.
Is after playing The 3rd game I will say like this. I feel the best part about how they handle the anime troops stuff, Is dad they did their best to avoid some of the things they Avoided some of the more annoying cringe anime stuff in the 2nd game. By dad i'm referring to in the main game when they start doing anime stuff like the white eyes and stuff like that. Now I did find it funny. I just found it while off putting in the 3D Space like I was looking at Early seasons RWBY Or the like. While with the third game they were able to do that without any of the extra It's stuff which I liked especially that 1 anime Trope part where when you're fighting mobius P and O When they interlink And of course when they monologue about how threatening they are just after you watch 2 important characters die. Mio ups and punches P in the face sending them flying without even being interlink. And give the two what for. I'm gonna say the girls doing their little pose was a lot better than that girl moment c*** that was an endgame (once Again anime beats comics even in the films lol) I'm just gonna say it though I don't think anime signatures like the giant white eyes Or well I don't know I think when nia saw her wanted Poster and ended up glaring at Dormach When he insinuated that the picture of her was close to reality. Stuff like that was a bit silly. Everything involving Zeke That's an exception lol Especially when revolving around how fast he moves is taken into account When pyra picks up His turtle and he ups and grabs it from her even rex pointed out that he could have taken that moment to grab her but didn't. Suffice to say if you balance it out that's good I mean look at torna the golden kingdom. I believe that was foreshadowing for how they would handle the anime stuff in The third game. I mean the other part I disliked about the 2nd game was just how the art direction was all over the d*** place because of all the guest artists. Many of them are good and they are good all of them the differences Is that because their artwork is stitched up all over the d*** game It's all over the place and I almost went blind from some of them especially a certain bit ball Blade. I get that she was meant to be homage to the old anime days where the women had to start their eyes but good f****** God that does not work. Well in the 3D format. Happy when they redid the 1st game and we're doing the dirt game. They did not make the same mistake again and use a consistent artist. Who does a good job I will give that. I can even see myself going back to the original 1st game with. How everyone's faces felt like they were painted on like. I was playing forbidden siren or something lol. It had its charm but I'm happy to move forward with. How. Things were that's the plus that the second game brought about especially with the remaster Of the first game
Xenosaga Ep3 characters designs were done by Mugitani Koichi who worked on XCX and XC2. I think he designed some for Skells for X. While for 2 he designed some rare Blades along with Telos. He does some great work. Unfortunately though, MS is planning to have their own in-house artists handle the character designs for future games, so they aren't gonna ask him again probably.
I think Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition hits the sweet spot for me artstyle-wise. I didn't like how a lot of faces in XC2 looked very samey. XCDE is undeniably anime, but it doesn't suffer from the "samey-face syndrome" that XC2 did. Also XC1 isn't filled with cringey tropes and relentless fanservice.
As an anime watcher, Xenoblade 2s art style doesn't even look very "anime" to me. Off-topic but most of the problems that people have with anime (things like extremely large boobs) aren't even prominent in a lot of actual good anime.
Yeah, that's cause those are the good ones, lol. As someone who watches plenty of bad anime, I can confirm that there is a reason those negative stereotypes exist
I think we need more ginormous tiddie waifus, that's for sure. However, I would hate, though, that they went too shonen on the next game. The way they treated a lot of the situations in XC2 seemed a little too shonen to me (meaning, oriented to male male teens) while XC1 was definetely more seinen (adult or young adult men). I think when people say the last game is too anime is simply that they think they're too colorful, they've got too many skimpy clothed big tiddie female characters and that the situations (at the start of the game) seem a bit too childish (very common in shonen anime). As I said, I'm cool with the hot chicks (cause, frankly, if I have to stare to a character for lile 200 hours like I put into XC2, I'd rather she's hot; that's just how it is), but I would prefer they cut the comedy a tad cause in XC2 the beginning is way too relaxed.
(Read everything) I agree, however I don't want xenoblade to be "more anime" if that means "new" anime (cute, weird, exaggerated) now, if we are talking old anime... style-wise I'd love that The thing I really didn't like about Xenoblade 2 was the character design, it quite literally screamed at your face "ANIIIMEEEE" and not old anime, new anime (weird, exaggerated, cute) I still agree with you tho More expressive characters? That'd be good Better animation, etc? That'd be good Better world building? That'd be good Slice of li- what? NO, character development is good and can totally happen in "slice of life" scenarios, just don't overdo it to the point it becomes like "new anime" I don't want the game to be style over substance (like many new Nintendo games lately sadly...) I agree on that too
Anime has tendencies, tropes and cliches. It has meaning to refer to something as anime. Xenoblade Chronicles 1 obviously did have an artstyle. Just because it didn’t have a single art director doesn’t mean it didn’t have an art style. There is a cohesive style among the designs, if a vague one. They are more realistic and less stylised than 2, at least in the faces and proportions. Xenoblade Chronicles X followed this, 2 did not. I don’t care about the storyboards, this is how it turned out. How hard is this to understand? I definitely wouldn’t have played 2 if 1 didn’t exist. It’s just another JRPG, going back to the trends that 1 defied. We’ve come to the point where XC is more anime than Kingdom Hearts, and that makes me want to die.
To me, anime refers to a certain storytelling, animation, and visual style. So yeah, if Xenoblade gets more "anime" that'd be really neat. I don't really care for the tropes all that much. Pyra is still my favorite character in the game, and that wouldn't change for any other reason than her character.
But, seriously I don't mind anime that much so as long as the games are good so I'm down with whatever. Great video, I love hearing your vision for the future of the series ! Edit: Phrasing
Nah. I hated the cringey ADHD-geeky anime stuff. I also hate the cheap looking character art of Xenoblade Chronicles 2. I'd prefer Xeno to start taking itself seriously again, the series could be HUGE if it did. The kiddy ADHD-wyfuaboo stuff is what's holding it back at this point. Also, it would be a travesty if they replaced Xenoblade's beautiful environments with some kind of weird anime crap.
Anime tends to equal fan service and super oversexualized designs. If you aren't into it, its cringy and stupid as hell. I don't mind it in anime. I don"t want it in my xenoblade game. No one takes you seriously when you say the video game with head-sized tits on it has substance, and I wouldn't blame them. On the other hand, having a more defined art style is good. I am committed to monolith soft regardless. Loved all 3 games in the xenoblade series.
My thoughts exactly. Let the next Xenoblade game just take what XB2 did and improve upon it. Just tone down fan service and troupes and maybe add a more original protagonist (Rex is still a great protagonist but he is a little generic). Overall, XB2 did lots of great things for the series in terms of visuals and makes me excited to see XB3 in like 2029
@@dinglberry3320 I mean, Monolith has to release their new IP which is probably late 2021 or early 2022 Then they will work on the follow up to XenoX which will release at least 3 years after that 2024-2025 Then it's XB3 at the earliest of 2028
Didn't elaborate on the "XC1 has no artstyle" comment here because I've talked about it before but tl;dr the character models and official art weren't based on designs made from a concept artist but instead made to fit the costume designs so they weren't trying to be any particular artist's style.
Takahashi quote:
"For the original Xenoblade Chronicles game, this character design artwork simply didn’t exist; all we had were costume designs for the clothing the characters wore. This meant we were forced to create the CG character models to fit those costume designs. And what’s more, the only artwork released of those characters were retouched versions of their CG models - there was no concept art to speak of, not like [what XC2 had] at any rate."
Source: nintendoeverything.com/tetsuya-takahashi-reflects-on-the-art-of-xenoblade-chronicles-2/
oh yeah the video was also supposed to have this edit I made a few days ago as the intro but it got copyright claimed
twitter.com/_Luxin/status/1217195599306600450
The early complaints besides of XC2 looking too anime, and yeah, I also do saw one video talk about how anime make characters more expressive.
But you might aware XC2 got the most bash on its fanservice designs, I guess that is the reason why many don't like anime, let alone anime fanservice (big boobs, skimpy outfits, etc...), maybe you can made your retrospective view on that debacle lol.
Just gonna throw this out there, but I think the natural implication of saying "becoming more *thing" is that it becomes more reflective of the generic/stereotypical aspects of whatever that thing is. I don't think anyone is saying it shouldn't be a standout Japanese animation project, I think people just don't want it to become more generic with each passing game.
To explain, 2 is still very Xenoblade, but it has a lot of, not just tropes, but cliches that are most common in anime released in recent years. It's like comparing Cowboy Bebop to SAO to... I don't know, black clover or something like that. Bebop is seen as a time standing classic, SAO is seen as red meat for casuals and kinda defined the generic isekai, and Black Clover is seen as totally derivative of Naruto, Fairy Tale, Bleach, etc. That's not to say these don't each have their own audiences or deserve them, but I believe that many of the complaining fans see the franchise as one they want every entry of to feel like a Cowboy Bebop classic, and less of a generic styled show that leads to it being a part of a played out genre as isekais are often seen this day, or, worse yet, nobody wants Xenoblade games to feel derivative, even if they are derivative in many ways to what came before, people just don't want it to feel that way. Does that make sense? Kinda hard to express it in writing. Oh, but most of all, none of the fans want it to feel like that cell phone isekai, the one that feels like it's just reaching for ideas and is isekai fodder anime. Nobody wants Xenoblade to ever feel like a fodder game.
I think the X1 remake looks like a nice middle ground, in terms of art style, though there is a bit less detail and the colors do feel a bit less organic to me so far. I personally liked the more organic color palette of the original release, so far, but I'll see how I feel when I get the game. I just hope they don't stick to following the popular mechanic or art design of the day, like being so fan service-y or putting in mechanics like the gatcha system into 2 again. Just cause it's popular now does not mean that those decisions will hold up well in 10 or 20 years. I think games should be designed with the long-term in mind like that
@@Chronoflation The Xeno series has always had the "flavor of the day" anime art style. Xenogears' art style is very typical for anime in that time period. It's only looking at it retroactively that it's unique because it's not the common art style these days.
What makes Xeno games stand the test of time is the writing and the themes the story tells. If you push aside the Xenoblade 1 bias for a second, you see many people who end up loving Xenoblade 2 for the characters and the story, and the dark underlying themes used in it. Now everyone has their preferences. People can prefer the story of Xenoblade 1 more and the presentation of it, but Xenoblade 2 has remained as popular if not more since its release. The story has depth that people can revisit and dive into.
The main issue people talk about is the character designs. I won't say Xenoblade 2 had the best character designs, but many of the core characters do have good designs. Nia, Morag, Poppi, Zeke, Amalthus, Jin, Malos, etc. But people just focus on Rex and Pyra and complain about them as if all the characters were as off-putting as them. Though I think Rex's design fits him. As for the "generic artstyle," the artist has worked on anime before, and it is identical to that work. But it still has it's own unique flavor that doesn't make it feel entirely generic. More importantly, seeing the characters in motion really emphasizes their personality with how expressive they are. Just look at the countless amounts of memes from just the facial animations.
If you were judging the games as just a still image, then most of the Xeno games are generic anime. But these are not still images. They are video games with story telling, character development, choreographed cutscenes, world building, and so on. People can get too wrapped up in one thing they don't like that they ignore the other elements of the game that makes it great. It's not a perfect game. None of the Xeno games are. But they have a dedicated fanbase because of the stories these games have to tell, and the ambition they have to tell them.
Characters still have a cohesive look, and that one is of more realistic facial and body proportions.
How can a video game or piece of art not have an artstyle anyway? If you mean that it’s more realistic or generic, then that still counts as an artstyle.
I'll never understand JRPG fans that hate everything anime. Mental gymnastics for the win.
My friend hates how “anime” the last few Nintendo Directs have been. By which she means that she hates JRPGS, and she hates that there are so many of them.
Yeah, like the backlash of XC2 design is one thing, people seems to have anime fanservice for the most, which I think it was pretty bogus.
Parcel Form your friend is complaining about Japanese RPGs, arguably one of the largest genres in Japanese gaming, coming to a system primarily designed for a Japanese audience. Hate to be that guy but if she doesn’t like JRPGs then she might prefer systems like Xbox more.
Have you seen the anime that's popular, lately?
I don't hate anime, I hate the dorky kiddy anime.
Stuff like Akira, Ghost in the Shell, and even Evangellion is cool
All that cringee ADHD crap that's aimed at the waifubu types needs to burn.
I am completely fine with the art style changes from game to game. I think it helps further differentiate each game
It's kinda like the Zelda series that way.
@@ShallBePurified Yeah, that's a great example honestly. It's something that should cement the idea of "not every game will be the way you expect it".
It's kind of weird to think about really because Final Fantasy USED to be like that, and it makes sense because none of the Final Fantasy's are really the same as each other and yet since 13, we've gotten this very samey art style for all the modern games now. Even the FF7 remake no longer shares the art style the original had in vision. That's not even down to the graphical limitations. FF7 had official character designs that used a distinct art style. We no have the graphical power to mimic that art style but they choose not to because SE is kinda prideful of how flashy they can make their games look.
I agree, but also think not every game should have an anime art style. Maybe they can go back to a realistic art style for a game.
You want more slice of life? Heart to hearts.
A friendly rival? Zeke.
Ok, maybe it's not EXACTLY what you ask for, but it's pretty close already.
Yeah, heart to hearts would be better if they actually had the characters doing stuff rather than just chatting with basic talking animations.
@Wil E Heart to hearts are better than Fire Emblem Support conversations prior to Three Houses (which Xenoblade 2 was released before Three Houses). Three Houses really improved the writing and presentation of the support conversations from the prior entries. Social Links/Confidants are also goals you specifically build towards whereas heart to hearts just open up naturally as the bond between the characters increase from just using them in battles and sidequests. A closer comparison to Confidants would be rare blade quests in Xenoblade 2 or affinity missions in Xenoblade X.
@@ShallBePurified I disagree, the support conversations in Fire Emblem Echoes, Sacred Stones, Path of Radiance, and Blazing Sword, and even Awakening all had support conversations with good writing. The ones without good writing were always comedic and funny
hating anime, but playing jrpgs is like being vegan, but going to arby's
Not really, the FF series is a jrpg that doesn't look like anime.
Have you seen Cloud?
@@Player-jh4ko have you seen any FF character?
@@Alam_Gutz Yes I have, the 10th game doesn't really feel or look like anime tho.
@@Alam_Gutz FF went anime after Tetsuya Nomura in FF VII. Previous games werent anime.
The anime cutscenes is what kept me playing Xenoblade 2 after I didn't like the gameplay when I was a noob. Love the artstyle.
You know, Xenoblade 2 is what actually got me back into watching anime after not watching any since the original Pokémon: Indigo League anime; and because of it I've gotten to see so many wonderful, and questionable, anime these past couple years.
Have you seen Cautious Hero? It's hilarious, but really feely at the end, it's up there with FMAB and Death Note for me
@@AdamTheGameBoy I haven't seen it yet. It's one that's on my list of anime that I need to watch; same with FMAB and Death Note. Some notable anime for me has to be the Monogatari Series, Angel Beats, Bunny Girl Senpai, Oresuki, Konosuba, Shield Hero, Love Chunibyo & Other Delusions!, My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU, Toradora, Another, Re:Zero, A Sister's All You Need, and so many more. I'd say the anime that has actually made me laugh out unlike anything I've ever seen has to be Shimoneta. That one somewhat falls into the more questionable side of anime I've seen; along with High School DxD, Oreimo, and Eromanga Sensei just to name a few.
Adam's Analysis Ive watched re zero (my favorite anime) because the opening reminded me of pyra and rex. There was a scene reminiscent of rex first seeing pyra lmao
*Hotter take!*
I think Xeno-games should be more *good* sci-fi anime.
What is good Sci-Fi anime?
@@captainmega6310 Eh, I suppose they'd be about a coherent story, sensible terminology, no tech-babble just for the purpose of sounding tech-y, but also consistent naming conventions. Monolith Soft are quite good about that sort of thing already, so if they just dialled down on the goofy and yoinked the gatcha we'd be golden.
@@ArveEriksson I think they should keep the goofy and make it more serious. Otherwise agree
Monolithsoft actually decided to make XC2 look more anime because they felt that the character models in 1 looked kind of stiff. If you watch the XCDE trailer again and also look up the new renders for Shulk and Fiora, you can see that they've corrected that problem for Definitive Edition. They struck a nice balance--everyone looks more anime with that cell-shaded style, but without stuff like the "anime eyes" that some of 2's characters had.
I was one of the "rare" fans who was excited to see a more anime art style because Xenoblade X had some of the most unenthusiastic facial expressions. The characters either had a neutral expression or a pissed expression. Seeing the new art style they can actually make good facial expressions and they completely exceeded in that. And now they are giving Xenoblade 1 the same treatment and I am excited for it. People can complain about the art style all they want. What I care about is how expressive they make the characters feel.
@@ShallBePurified thank you
This whole "I hate it because it's anime" reminds me a lot of people criticizing some games as "over the top". Aka the characters performing feats far beyond what humans can do like destroying buildings or whatever.
Here's my take: It's a fictional story, embrace the insanity, embrace the over the top, you're only limiting your story by trying to be "normal," or "western" in this case.
I was never a fan for realism in games, or the need to make a game look and act like people in real life. Persona 3-5 does this well but other games forget that it's a game and not real life. If people want a game based on things only people in real life could do, how about you either don't play games, or watch a movie. I like the worlds in Xenoblade because of how their world are, it's different from your usual jrpgs/rpgs.
I think if you look at the xeno games as a whole they have a parallel with the legend of heros: trails series, where there have been tropes through out them but they emphasize on them more now because they are making a new cast every game (or every couple of games) and having a character fit into a trope at the beginning help you feel like you know how they will act in certain situations and they don’t have to explain the to the player every time. Even though they grow out of the tropes later in the games
Gonna have to give a hard NO on the idea of an OP. Look, just because both JRPGs and anime are made by the same country, that doesn't mean that literally every single aspect of both has to be exactly the same, or that they should basically copy each other. A simple title screen is good enough for me.
Why draw a line at an opening? I don’t get how an openin/is exclusively anime
Astral Chain pulled it off though.
The original Xenoblade’s title screen theme would fit pretty well for an opening though, and it just a better presentation IMO and just a little more welcoming than just a title screen.
They wouldn’t even have to make a dedicated one, just some cinematic shots of the playable characters in battle, maybe some cutscene cut outs too. Showing off some areas would be cool too.
I prefer the title screens recent Xeno games have aswell. Just sitting there, listening to the great music and a calm title screen makes me hyped up everytime.
Reminds me of the Fire Emblem peoples, I can understand some of their qualms about the anime tropes in the recent series, but its been in there since the start.
Exactly, but IMO Three Houses has improved on it a bit. It made me feel like the characters aren’t just cookie cutter tropes and actually had more depth to them.
It's always been anime
Yeah, but 2 was definitely a genre shift. It's almost like going from Yu Yu Hakusho to Gintama. Both are totally anime, but that doesn't mean they're appealing to the same crowd. Besides, everyone knows that when people complain about it being too anime that they're referring to it taking on too many generic anime tropes/cliches. Kinda like watching a magical school anime that's adapted from a light novel, you basically know what's gonna happen before it happens because they're all so derivative and formulaic, in most cases. Likewise, if you showed me a picture of Rex before the game came out and told me he was from a Ys game or an Atelier game, or any number of other anime franchise games, I wouldn't have doubted you. And, had I not known he was from a Xenoblade game, I would've doubted you when you told me. I think that's the aspect of it that people get nervous about.
ChronoFlation sorry but are you saying xenoblade 1 ISNT derivative and formulaic? i’m not going to imply xenoblade 2 is a whole lot better in that respect, but xenoblade 1 has a verrrrry unoriginal story. by the time you reach agniritha, the game has commited so hard to being a bootleg xenogears that you can practically get a real life vision seeing the next several hours of cutscenes unfold before they happen. egil has a few lines that are almost word for word copies of miang.
i can see why you would prefer the tone of xb1 as it’s more “down to earth,” but it’s just as, if not more derivative than xb2
@@plaip6404 Yeah, but that's the thing, it's derivative of the creators own previous works. That makes sense. Like how every band has a sound that is unmistakably "that band" for most of their soundtracks. Xenoblade 2 feels like it's taking from generic anime tropes/cliches and character art. The point isn't that it's derivative, it's that it's derivative of such common tropes. Games can be good with those elements, but it just felt too aware that it was playing off anime tropes and too aware of its own memes, like Rex's battle dialogue about the power of friendship and that stuff. It's so generic and self-aware it's pretty disgusting to me. But hey, I've watched a lot more anime than I've played games, so maybe I'm just more aware of these sorts of things. I mostly hate 2 for its mechanics, optimization, menus, and story. The derivative stuff is just a general "I hope they don't try to incorporate too many oversaturated anime tropes and jokes into the future games, I'm fine with a one off though"
If you think there's wasn't anything deep in XC2 beyond the tropes then you must not have played the game. Fucking story had so much complexity and emotion going on. Jin and Lora's sad back story is proof of that. Jin is so deep of a character. And there's more to Rex than his design. His personality really makes him stand out IMO. And if u think the badass armor he gets in chapter 7 is generic looking then u need to get your eyes checked. Also just so we're clear I don't see what's so bad about tropes to begin with. I enjoy the medium of anime FOR the tropes it brings. If u don't like the way anime does story telling and comedy etc. then why the fuck are you watching it. I think XC2 was a fantastic game. Through and through 🙌🔥
@@gonisbestboy659 If you're directing this towards me, I played the whole main game and put in 90 hours. And yeah, Jin and Lora had a great backstory. Too bad they were barely in the game. The game is full of red meat for people to get into the lore, but that's all there to cover up the fact that the main story basically shows that the main cast are a bunch of random people who don't know shit about each other going on and on about friendship when they don't even know Morag is a girl. The themes betray the writing, and I'm not gonna forgive poor writing for major points of the main plot just cause the game throws in some deep lore and backstories.
And anime comedy is great... in comedy series. But Naruto stepping in shit doesn't make his series as funny as Gintama, and Xenoblade 2 throwing in otaku culture jokes and memes doesn't make it a better written game. On top of that, 2D visual gags tend to look jarring in 3D and this game was full of them. Btw, I don't think I complained about his armor. Whenever I say Rex has a bad design, I'm referring to his face. I've seen better detail in 2D anime. Naruto characters have less flat looking faces than Rex and Pyra. The 2 of them look like their faces were ripped out of a moe anime, not even a shounen. It's pathetic when we have examples like Zeke, Morag, Jin, Malos, and even plenty of child and adult NPCs who all have more detail and depth in their facial designs.
So yes, I did play the game. I played the original too, multiple times, and I've played X multiple times. This is the only one that I did not enjoy no matter how hard I tried, and I've put a lot of thought into it because I really wanted to like the game. But, for me, it's shit. That's all there is to it
This is luxin talking about anime op ideas for 10 minutes
Hopefully Xenoblade Chronicles 3 will exceed expectations once it comes out.
I think a somewhat simple way to combine the world design and the story is to let you chat with your teammates. One example is the Dragon Quest games, in 4 and 11, you can just talk to your team whenever and they'll talk about what just happened in the story, what's going on around you currently and other little things like that.
My main complaint when things become "too anime" is when their character is shoved aside to become cliched. (I haven't played the Xenogears games) I prefer XC1 and Trona's characters (Torna Mythra excluded) a lot more than XC2 because they felt distincter. XC2's cast relied more on tropes to define their characters.
I feel as though saying XC1 didn't count because it didn't have an art style is a cop out. There have always been genres that haven't been defined in art, music, or games but they later became established. So to fully rule it out doesn't sit well.
I'm just gonna say right off the bat that i don't have the JRPG experience as everyone else (I only started playing Xenoblade 2/Torna back in December) and my only real experience with JRPGs is pokemon.
However, i will have to say that i believe you are right. Why are people wanting a Japanese company to suddenly switch the artstyle, theme, acting, etc to a more western style? If that's the case why are you even playing JRPGs to begin with? Why aren't you playing western rpgs? Aside from the voice acting and the poor lip syncing with xenoblade 2 (Although im on the side of Nia's voice being amazing in XBC2, welsh cat girl is awesome, fight me) the story was amazing and you could tell the creative juices were flowing in the world builders. I loved the concept of the titans, the cloud sea, and bringing a fantasy more grounded to reality. I personally don't care what art style they use, if they made a good story (even if some PARTS of it weren't great) it's still a good story regardless. Now that being said, i do have some grievances with the art style *cough* Dalia *cough* but im not going to fault them for a couple mistakes in an otherwise amazing game.
I will say, i came into this game and was consistently amazed at the size and detail of it. I was a huge player of WoW for a decade, and of course i do have grievances with how the game is being handled right now. But as i played Xenoblade 2, i was consistently impressed with the sheer amount of stuff to do. Side quests everywhere, each character able to be built up and have their own little story, the game getting bigger and bigger as i continued playing, it just sucked me in as an amazing experience. So with that being said, ill take the sub par voice acting and lip syncing, or art choices like the extremely busty Dalia or the trap Floren in stride and just enjoy a game that is rich in player experience.
Interesting of you, to mention WoW in that context.
Xenoblade and WoW do have rather similar gameplay, after all.
Xenoblade 2 felt like a generic seasonal anime at first story wise and got good a few chapters in and that made it a bit hard to enjoy at first. It was a bit too comedic and lightheartrd compared to the other games being more serious. Taste is subjunctive and I prefer the franchise being more serious
More anime doesn't mean less serious
@@bonehead8784 he's not saying it is. All he's saying is he would prefer say ergo proxy as opposed to excel saga
Finally, someone else says it. It totally feels like a seasonal every-show anime, like this season's isekai or black clover or something like that. I prefer it being more unique, so each game can be looked back on as a classic, like Cowboy Bebop, Yu Yu Hakusho, Baccano, Steins;Gate. These all had varying amounts of comedy and art directions, but they all feel like shows that stand out in some way among their contemporaries, aside from maybe Yu Yu Hakusho's art style (that was pretty quintessential early 90s anime). But even that made up for the more generic look with the occasional use of more unique animation techniques, like the episode where Hiei tames the black flame dragon, or the one where Yusuke had to fight the human doctor, and it had excellent writing and character development. Xenoblade should have a style that can leave an impression like these shows.
Also, the characters just shouldn't suffer from flat face syndrome like Mythra and Rex had. But that's maybe more of a nitpick. I just want them to be standalone experiences that will stand the test of time and 2 just feels totally like a late 2010s generic anime to me
Well Tetsuya Takahashi did say that XC2 was always intended to be like that. It was a supposed to be his first attempt at making a light hearted story. Since he never made an RPG like that and he wanted to take a different direction for once, because he felt that all of his previous works had a dark/depressing tone in some way.
gundamzerostrike
I can only disagree with this and see it the opposite way:
The characters in 2 are based too much on their tropes and they feel like walking memes.
1 is generally a lot more serious and I prefer it’s cast much to 2’s.
Tldr: Really, all in all, I’m fine with Anime, but not with overused and unoriginal tropes and the overly comedic aspect of 2 should be kept lower.
The plot twists in 1 were also more thrilling than any of 2’s, but 2 at least had a nice throwback twist at the end with the world tree.
As someone mentioned before, Anime can also be serious, 2 just isn’t.
Dunban’s Blossom Dance quote: “Born in a world of strife, against the odds we choose to fight.” Just describes it perfectly. In a world of strife they choose to fight against the Mechon and every character does have their reason to do so.
I was digressing a little there, but even if characters like Reyn (actually pretty much only him and partially Sharla, I guess) have been memed to death, they still have some awesome moments to shine. And Reyn really only is a clown for least of the time, most of the time he’s normal.
I just love the relationships the characters build in 1 and being able to change outcomes for all major areas through an actual affinity chart, affecting many side characters.
And Shulk is just generally a better protagonist, you really can’t argue with that.
I get that Rex goes through some development during the latter story, but he just isn’t really a good main character and should have rather been a side character traveling with the game’s actual main character.
I actually don't want fanservice gone. Sexuality has been demonized a lot as of late in gaming which always results in the western versions of games getting ridiculous censorships while the east keeps the game as is anyway. Fanservice in xenoblade hasn't been intrusive to me personally and I think said sex appeal is offered in scenes that aren't serious in the first place. No real reason to remove it imo, sex appeal isn't a bad thing.
Just going to point out, cutscene animations on Xenoblade 2 (And Torna) where done by Graphinica (A 3D anime studio) not Monolith Soft, Masatsugu Saito (Main character designer) had previously worked with them on a film called Expelled from paradise
The rival thing was in XC2.
That’s kinda how I saw Zeke, at least.
He’s actually a joke character
Zeke and co kinda felt more like a Team Rocket to me than a rival. Not to say I hate the idea of a Team Rocket type of trope since it was hilarious at times but I wouldn't call that rivalry.
Why does everything need to get compared to Team Rocket?
Also they’re joke characters
Wil E
Metal Face is not only your rival, but your nemesis for quite some time.
Xeno series have always been anime, the diference is that the artsyle and character acquetypes are based arround in the anime of the time each game was released, Xenogears is a lot like a many 90's seinen anime, Xenosaga has desings and tropes that feel like anime from the early 2000's (it even has a beach episode), and since we are experiencing a rise of shounen anime Xenoblade 2 took a lot of inspiration from there
For once, there WONT be spoilers in this video
*shows huge chunks of the final boss fight of Torna*
The 2D anime opening is a topic I KINDA disagree with but at the same time it technically can have one. Things I think a lot of games are missing these days are their Intro scenes. It can be a 2D animation, or it can be a CG render that's simply made to hype the player up before starting. Not a lot of games have them these days, but all the hypest games from back in the day did.
Smash Bros Melee, Sonic Adventure, Gotcha Force (literally did have a 2D anime opening), Kirby Air Ride, etc...
Really the short answer is that really an anime opening should be an after-thought. That sounds like I'm asking for something with zero passion but really stuff like that needs to be decided once the game is essentially complete. I think games will ALWAYS be worthy of an opening intro but what kind of intro? Decide that once we know what mood it suits. Personally, when it comes to video games I'll always prefer CG rendered cut-scenes despite being an anime fan. As something that's often visualised in 3D, I like to see the visual cohesion of the media it's mostly portrayed in. It's a complete disconnect for me when it wants to be 2 different forms of media. That said, I'm also the type of guy who's easily bothered by the fact that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had WAYYY too many characters artists which meant that a lot of them simply look out of place standing next to each other. I've looked a lot over the internet and realise this is a minority complaint that I haven't heard much elsewhere but to me it'd be the equivalent of having Toon Link from Wind Waker standing next to a more gritty and realistic Samus in her grim alien worlds.
But back on topic, I'd have to see what kind of tone they go with for the next Xenoblade game. Personally, I agree with most of your points, but with that in mind I don't want the next game to be as light-hearted as XC2.
For me personally, the Original Xenoblade Chronicles had the perfect tone. It was a serious story that didn't take itself too seriously. There were gags but not every situation was turned into one. The first Xenoblade was a good example of "we can have light-hearted moments without making a dumb joke out of it". Xenoblade Chronicles 2 too often tried to make you laugh AT all the characters than with them. I like myself some dumb characters (Reyn is a great example) but I feel like too much was riding on the expense of them. The first Xenoblade felt a lot more like some good old banter and that's the absolute best outcome for a story that still wants to be taken seriously.
But before people jump on me, I'm well aware that's not what XC2 was going for. That's simply why I'm saying I'd like XC3 to be more like XC1 in that sense. I feel like it appeals to more people as well. It's very easy to run character tropes into the ground and exhaust them if you don't take a breather every so often.
Oh and if I can chime in late on the art STYLE? As I've mentioned, I wasn't a huge fan how there was no cohesion for the character designs in XC2. This of course would have been something I would be okay with if character designers were reduced drastically to fit together more.
I'm someone who wouldn't mind if the art style changes with every new entry in the series however. It simply just goes back to whatever tone they're doing for.
Right now, I'm actually in love with whoever's style is behind Shulk and Fiora's updated style. That isn't just simply a re-topology to make their old models look better, that's straight up based on a design someone drew and I'm dying to find out who it was.
If THAT designer were to do all the designs for XC3? I think we could rest easy.
I think the next XC3 will be attempt to be closer to Xenogears and go the way of adapting the Perfect Works concepts, since that's what Monolith Soft is clearly building up to by making the connections and all the call backs. Its also Takahashi grand dream project that he could finally achieved now that Xenoblade is a successful series. He also kinda foreshadowed it in an interview when he said “The Xenoblade series might go down a path it hasn't gone to before”
So you might see something thats more different then both XC1 and XC2 next time.
This video feels like it cuts off early accidentally. Anyways, good points! I'm okay with Xenoblade taking even more inspiration from anime, but I also do want the next game to have better female character designs, as you noted, and a smaller cast.
My family has always prided itself on tradition. Despite all the chaos and unrest in the world these days, we always find time for the simple things. It's been a calming effect on my life, knowing that however crazy it gets when I'm off on my own, when I come back home I know exactly the warm family welcome I can expect.
One tradition I think I can do without, though, is my grandmother's Christmas pie. Every year, she makes an apple pie as a desert for Christmas dinner. When I was a kid, I would help her cut the apples into slices; there was a super neat crank apparatus that would slowly slice its way through. It was very satisfying to turn the crank, and young me was eager to help out. That all changed the first time I tried it, though. I don't know what my grandma did to screw up an apple and cinnamon pie, but that thing was rancid. She was very defensive of it, and insisted everybody try it. As my cousins and I slowly worked our way through our horrible mandatory slices, I had enough. I stood up and told my grandma, "I don't want this pie! I don't want any more Christmas desert!"
One thing I do want, however, is to tell you about Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War. It's a tactics game directed by Shouzou Kaga where you take control of a colorful and diverse cast of over 45 characters and command then in strategic turn-based battles. Watch beautiful hand-drawn graphics as your army wields a wide variety of weapons in an easy-to-learn, hard-to-master combat system. Join Sigurd, Paladin of Grannvale on his quest to win back the world from the evil clutches of Dukes Reptor and Langbalt. Play for free today!
The last part just sounds like advertising, man. It’s not at all a bad game, but your way of presenting it just doesn’t feel right.
I know this is unrelated to this vid but I hope we get a game where u play as a prequel of xenoblade chronicles 1&2 for either
Zanzas or the architect point of view to before the explosion
Rex is what I don't want a repeat of tbh. I really don't like shounen protagonists. Granted, I don't really want more of X's protagonist situation either. I want a unique and well developed protagonist, not a shounen archetype or a blank slate. Shulk kinda sorta falls under the shounen story archetype, but at least he's not nearly as infuriatingly immature as Rex.
I like the way you think! - Reyn.
Reyn preceded Rexes I like your attitude by a long way, btw.
Damn, Haze is a beauty.
Can’t disagree with that.
So it's 1:15am in my part of the globe and I was just about to go to sleep... guess not now
I can't reallly see the opening working unless if it only played at the start like Dragon Quest 11
I will always believe an Anime artstyle is better than attempting photo realism it gives them more personality and allows the game to stand out from others, not to mention that an anime style allows for more expressive characters
My problem with XC2 was that the story and character moments got super trope-y. XC1 and XG mostly bucked the tropes of anime by taking them into new and fascinating areas. XC2 fell back on them and let it sit. XC2 also had a poor world-building in the second half of the game. I was super invested in the first 4 or so chapters, but once you got to Indol, things just kinda drifted apart and didn't make sense.
Im completely fine with games being anime i just thought that xc2 was too anime much anime and needed to dial it back a little
I actually kinda like the more light-hearted, tropes but with actual detail in them, character-focused vibe of 2 a bit more. Same with the art style. The characters feel like Jojo's part 4 or Persona 4 to me, and those were my favorite parts of those series. I also just weirdly enjoy the way they colored skin and eyes in 2. I kinda couldn't help looking at the various eyes and mentally noting how simultaneously grounded and detailed textures looked, from Titan to Nopon to Blade.
Also the cloud sea reminds me of Skylanders, and that's legitimately one of the only series I can claim to be nostalgic for.
2:47
Well that's part of the problem, I think there ARE tons of xeno fans that DO want the series to become a western RPG. I think it's stupid to think that a Japanese company should do such a drastic 180 in style just because some fans want it to but...here we are. Generally I would also say that people who feel this way are kind of cherry picking what they like about the series. Maybe they like the characters but dislike the occasional inclusion of anime-esque comedy sprinkled throughout. Unfortunately the issue is that you can't decouple the good character writing from the Japanese influence and tropes. Neither one is any more or less central to the identity of the series at a whole. Also, in my personal opinion, no game is perfect, and if you are really a fan, you have to take the good with the bad. Both of those sides of xenoblade are what xenoblade is at its core. You can't have one without the other
I feel so stupid, but what did Luxin mean by Mecha Porn?
If someone refers to something as porn in a non-sexual context, it basically just means it's really pretty and there's a lot of it.
That feels weird
Just think of how people refer to "food porn". It's essentially just that but cool robots and mechanical details.
“Ugh, I hate anime. Monolithsoft should make this stuff more western, so it’ll be more acceptable instead of all that Japanese BS.”
-People who forget that Monolithsoft is a Japanese company.
If the franchise going more anime means the XC2 action scenes staying then I’m all for it. Also all the complaints about the tropes in XC2 I never really got because I never really noticed it when playing and I have about 331 hours played at the time making this comment. It seems to me the tropes in XC2 get really overblown like I only noticed them in two scenes and they’re scenes I like. Also wasn’t the reason why the game had a more anime art style is because people complained about X being to western?
I mean fair enough.
Zeke is a Joestar.
The blades in two are functionally stands.
All we need is a flamboyant vampire Law school grad.
I still want a Xenoblade X prequel or gaiden anime. Follow the adventures of the people on the whale or another ship during the journey, have them deal with minor and season long difficulties like gathering and conserving resources, dealing with the trauma of earth and family being gone, fighting off and hiding from ganglion or ghosts, wondering if they should cull a portion of their passengers to reduce the resource drain and ensure some survive. There's a long of interesting and mature things they could cover. The best animes touch on the gray where there isn't an easy or right answer; sometimes there are just bad choices or a safe, but bad choice and a very risky good choice. An X anime would have the recipe to be one of the best animes
I’m sorry I commented twice I usually don’t but every time Lora does her little one kick in he malos fight scene and how pissed he looks is the funniest thing
Persona is my favorite series of all time and its super anime
References like Alvis saying "I'm afraid I can't let you do that" and "Resistance is futile".
Just do more then one!!" 16:45
You gave me Albedo vibes there!
Hey luxin, you wanna know what isn't a hot take and probably won't spoil anything? Finch's greatness. C'mon you know you want to make Finch videos
Yes, and we want more Finch videos: Petition for Luxin to stream 100 24 hr. Finch based Content for the channel!
Tbh, I don't think he would be opposed to that
Totally agree 100%.
Dude we just need a xenoblade 2 hentai simulator so everyone will shit up
AAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! Melia looks so cute in that storyboard panel!!
Time to find a new xenoblade youtuber.
*Looks for 3 years*
Guess it's Luxin or the guy who posts meme compilations once every 6.9 months.
Are you referring to BlunZ? Lol
@@xerox2678/videos yes
@@tylerhouston69
Also check out Enel & Kay Julers
@@lordofhostsappreciator3075/videos Your name is trash but Enel looks cool.
Kay Julers has been lost to the brand of jewelry.
@@tylerhouston69
Ain't no reason to get upset at the truth
And what do you mean with "has been lost to the brand of jewelry"?
Only read the title. Yes they should be. Everything should be more anime.
I disagree, I liked Xenoblade for its mature yet at times funny themes and interesting interpersonal relationships. Xenoblade 2 lost some of its authenticity with how it implemented certain anime tropes and designs. I beat Xenoblade 2 but couldn't take the game seriously after I realized that the game is drastically different in themes from Xenoblade 1. It's so bad that I wouldn't want to replay Xenoblade 2
Go play Xenogears and Xenosaga
Okan Cihan personally I feel the opposite way, Xenoblade 1 imo felt like it lost a lot of “authenticity” from the previous games with its much simpler story and characters. Especially after you meet egil and the whole story became very predictable and boring. Xenoblade 2 has a lot more obvious stupid “anime” stuff like character designs and fanservice. But it was a lot darker, had more interesting characters and I found the interpersonal relationships and politics a lot more interesting than blade1. Idk blade1 never really felt “xeno” to me, it was very simple and basic. But I think it literally wasn’t a xeno game when it started development so maybe that’s why
I agree, the cliche tropes were far too much. The implementation of 2D gags into the 3D cutscenes were jarring, and the implementations of mechanics like time limited pouch items that continue use until you run out were horrible. The map is also one of the worst I've ever had the displeasure of using. And they totally put in the gatcha system just cause gatcha is super popular in japan right now. Between the fan service, gatcha, and art direction, it is clear that the game was appealing to the lowest common denominator of Japanese fan. The older games gave the player far more direct control of their stats, bluffs, and gameplay style, which I vastly prefer, and the art direction, while clearly limited due to hardware, was very unique and fit with the more down to earth tone of the games (despite 1 being on 2 titans and X being on an alien world). It's like the entire franchise shifted from a series of passion project dramas (maybe X was a space opera?) into being an action-comedy with 2. Not my thing at all.
Xenoblade 2 has a much darker theme than Xenoblade 1 did. Xenoblade 1 was darker on the surface with a grittier style and execution of its story, but Xenoblade 2 had more realistic themes to our reality and it hits harder when you pick up on those themes.
@@plaip6404 It wasn't meant to be a Xeno game. Takahashi had an interview talking about it and how it was supposed to be a standalone thing with a basic narrative structure. It's just the game had amazing execution for the story so even if you saw it coming, it was a spectacle to witness it.
I'm okay with this actually. However if Xenoblade X were to get a sequel, it should be a more western approach. Doesn't mean it won't be anime like, it should just have more western themes.
True X is much more suited for a more realistic art style. Still i like the varied artstyles.
Frank HardyI find that highly unlikely, considering the last time a Xeno game went with a realistic art style was Xenosaga Ep2 and everyone even some of the devs hated it, sooo
@@dinglberry3320 I'm thinking more of story than art style. I can see them sticking with X's artstyle if anything.
@@RemasterXenobladeX I hate X's art style.
I'm just popping in to give mention to the different opening's for Wild arm's 3 that is all.
And just like that, you lost me, I'm honestly tired of seeing over used anime tropes in JRPGs.
Edit: I suppose I should've been more clear with what I'm trying to say. Anime tropes in JRPGs are pretty much unavoidable, but what does matter is how well it's done and whether or not those tropes are portrayed in a way that hinders the overall immersion and feel if the experience. I'm aware that even my favorite JRPGs of all time (Final Fantasy series, SMT series and spinoffs, The Xeno series, Drakengard/Nier, Radiant Historia, Bravely series, Octopath Traveler, TWEWY, and so many more) have anime tropes in them, but are written in a way that doesn't pander to the lowest common denominator (weeaboos). However, if you were to recommend me a game like persay, any Compile Heart game, any Persona game after P3, ANY Dragon Quest game, I'd decline respectively because the tropes written in those games get annoying pretty fast. What I'm trying to say or what I should've said is that the Xeno series is perfectly fine the way it is, but if the games were to start pandering to weeaboos (to an even greater extent than XB2), I would drop the franchises outright like I did with Persona 4.
TL;DL, I'm talking about the cringe inducing weeaboo stuff.
Somebody's never played Xenogears or Xenosaga
@Wil E Exactly
@Wil E and XC2 isn't shonen?
@Wil E the person's point was that XC2 wasn't any more or less anime than Xenogears/Xenosaga.
Then stop playing JRPGs then.
20:08 That idea will only reach its full potential if Nintendo gets Lotus Juice in on it.
Yea the series has always been anime but imo done tastefully and not in a fan service way. The anime aesthetic compliments the game as whole. I was done with XC2 after fighting that Lolita mech. It really diminishes the impact of the scene after.
The big thing that made me prefer Xenoblade 1 over 2 was that certain aspects, such as the character interactions, in 2 felt too over the top for me. I'm down with crazy over the top attacks/enemies/etc., but seeing Addam fall over dead from eating Mythra's cooking is annoying and takes me out of the experience. Fiora complaining about Shulk always saying her cooking is great feels more like a real interaction, and makes me invested in the characters while also being kind of funny. I would say that over the top character interactions is more commonly associated with anime. There are certainly "anime" aspects that I love, but the melodrama is not one of them.
I think that comes down to personal preference. I personally loved those over the top moments. I think the games being so tonally different is what causes people to be disinterested. It's kinda like the Zelda series where each game have a distinctly different art style and tone for the story. But I love all the Xenoblade games because what they do have in common is amazing world building, lore, and cutscene choreography.
But that's the thing though. XC2 wasn't trying to be like XC1. It was trying to be different in tone, execution, and themes.
@@ShallBePurified Yes, it definitely is subjective. My intended point, which I didn't actually say, was that the Xeno games shouldn't be more "anime". But neither should they be less "anime". Neither option is objectively better, since different aspects of the games will satisfy different people. For me the story of Xenoblade 1 made me feel much more attached to the characters than 2 did. I still loved 2, but 1 is one of my favorite games of all time, with 2 being nowhere close. I'll also continue to play, and presumably enjoy, future Xeno games. But I don't think you can say they "should" be more anime, since certain aspects of that are more subjective.
Xenoblade Chronicles 3 should be set in highschool.
Basically academic theme like Fire Emblem Three Houses right? This is actually a good idea lol.
Oh but that high school is in an alternate fantasy world.
Also all the girls love the black-haired overpowered otaku.
Also the big twist is that its actually a video game
No
@@lordofhostsappreciator3075 🤔, explain?
@@aydensmith9745... Isn't this Isekai? Lol
“Xenoblade 1 effectively doesn’t have an art style...”
Boi, now you lost me; Xenoblade 1’s Artstyle is the least “Anime” of them all, yes, but it is still an artstyle (although I do agree with the statement that ‘Anime’ is mostly a blanket term):
1’s artstyle was meant to fit with the horrendous graphics of the Wii, and rather than try and over exert the console on something as meaningless as it’s graphics, it’s artstyle chose to take advantage of it’s limited console performance by allowing for a more ‘scenic’ approach to its art; emphasizing landscapes and its background instead of its more minute and up close details. Xenoblade X does this as well but with higher res graphics, making the minute details much more noticeable and revealing the less appealing style of the character designs. 2 fixes this single problem again by saying; fuck it, back to generic ‘anime’-esque.
Just for an elaboration on 1’s style, it uses the blurring effect of the Wii’s graphical prowess to give a sort of Watercolor or Pastel effect on backgrounds, while hiding character details.
Other than that, yeah, the anime style is something I do prefer (I just don’t think that warrants knocking down what 1 accomplished).
No, what he meant was Xenoblade 1 literally did not have an art style before the game was made. They didn't have any character designs or a style. They only had clothing designs, and they made models that would match the clothing. The artwork was drawn after the character models.
You could make the argument that the artstyle is the character models they used, but in the context of what Luxin meant, he means Xenoblade 1 didn't have a specific style of character art when it was made. Usually most Japanese developed games have concept art of how the characters look before making a model of them. Xenoblade 1 was the opposite.
Maybe... (loking at Trails in the Sky)
btw, Xenoblade is somewhat like tales of series but with greater quality. I do agree that Xenoblade should be more like Trails series (legend of heroes) but with lots of action cutscenes.
And I highly highly doubt Xenogears will be used for anything. This is not the focus of squaresoft neither nintendo. Xenoblade succeded, not Xenogears neither Xenosaga. And I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong but, Xenogears will not happen in this decade.
I think it’s more like trails of cold steel than in the sky
And here I am, stuck on FC
Gats T just wait till SC your mind will be blown compared to FC
@@xenoair156
Oh I know, it's just a matter of sitting down and playing it
19:07 LUXIN SAYS TRANS RIGHTS!!!!
🏳️🌈
Wtf is he talking about lol
@@Chelaxim
🤮
FF & Pokémon will NEVER be good again Can you vomit somewhere else please? I don’t wanna catch your prejudice.
@@thestormwizard6447
I'm good thanks
Instantly disagree. You know for a fact that it's just shorthand. The series should not become too referential. That will date the games if they're explicitly doing that. Of course small things, like using Eva color schemes for a mechanical character or robot, or other visual references to classics basically never hurts, but any spoken references can easily become too "on the nose". I also agree about being more expressive, but that does not mean that they need to completely change the art style to do that. Shulk was able to show some pretty good expression at the climax of the first Metal Face fight, despite the limited animations of that game, and I think just improving the animations and properly modeling the characters would do plenty to enable emotional expression without going for the stereotypical anime art style. Just look at Megalobox, Cowboy Bebop, Baccano, etc, there are plenty of expressive designs that do not require the stereotypical anime art styles like they used in 2 for the main cast. Heck, even in 2, look at the Jin and Malos. The 2 of them had designs that looked almost like they were ripped out of X and they were easily able to emote and have their emotions recognized. They also had more depth to their features due to the art style, as opposed to Rex or Mythra who suffer from flat-face syndrome.
That said, I agree with you that they should cut back on the ecchi-styled fan service and not go too far into shounen cliche tropes. Using the in service power system more in cut scenes would definitely be good, especially if they do that instead of having cutscene exclusive mechanics, like how Rex's foresight skill is used only in cutscenes. Slowing down the point a to point b aspects of the game to emphasize exploring the new areas would be a great upgrade too.
The friendly rival thing I'm not for. If we're taking notes from Pokemon, I'd prefer an asshole like Gary, and have his pre joining party arc be a redemption arc where he acknowledges the main party and only then becomes a friend. Let him keep his snark, not be an asshole per se, but not have him be standoffish either. Just make him snarky and it'll be a good transition, I think. I also like the OP idea, but let's take reference from another Nintendo game for this too. Namely, Fire Emblem Three Houses. They don't need to be exposition over a cathedral's image like that game, but a shorter piece of animation that updates the player to the current events. Like a 20 second opening for each chapter as opposed to 3 or 4 openings used for a third or quarter of the game. I think that'll make it less repetitive and it can help with world building more. I do not want them to hint at future events too much with openings. A lot of them accidentally expose the major villains or secrets in them, and I know that isn't required, but I would be far too nervous to watch any of the openings in my first playthroughs if they did take that anime opening structure. That's just my perspective
I don’t mind the anime art style, but the constant reliance on tropes in XC2 really dulled my enjoyment of the game. They need to get rid of the one dimensional trope characters, their cutscenes were painful to get through.
I highly disagree that they are one dimensional. There are tropes used for comedic moments and for shorthand story telling to get the general idea of the character (literally every story uses tropes to some degree), but there is more to each of the characters than what they show on the surface, and we see this through their small interactions with each other and their dialogue outside of cutscenes. It adds context to their actions in the story and their motives all feel realistic for their history.
Maybe you should look up what a trope actually is instead of parroting a complaint formula from the school of Sarkeesian.
Identifying a trope does not prove that you have conquered some art with cleverness. Itemizing the tropes in some piece of culture is just an utterly worthless, self-importantly boring thing to do. At best you are identifying a cliché and nothing more.
Instead of trying to sound smart (in reality sounding stupid) just say you don't like this or that because reason.
But for the love of God do us all a favour and frame it as a critique and not a complaint and why you're personally offended.
@@mrpyrostorm3165 Uh... Are you sure you're not the one offended? I just simply disagreed and explained why I disagreed. This isn't a competition on who can act the most pretentious.
@@ShallBePurified I wasn't talking to you. Never even saw your comment.
Edit. After reading your comment I actually agree with what you said.
@@mrpyrostorm3165 That's my bad then. I was confused.
16:09 let Ufotable do the 2D.
I'm one of those people who is heavily against Xenoblade getting more anime than XC2. It's one of the reasons why I kind of utterly despise the game.
*Ah shit, here we go again.*
Fuck Nintendo, give us the damn Direct with some Xenoblade DE news already, cus I'm just tired of these "Xenoblade should/shouldn't be this or that" discussions lol.
19:58 That just sounds like Xenosaga
Is after playing The 3rd game I will say like this. I feel the best part about how they handle the anime troops stuff, Is dad they did their best to avoid some of the things they Avoided some of the more annoying cringe anime stuff in the 2nd game. By dad i'm referring to in the main game when they start doing anime stuff like the white eyes and stuff like that. Now I did find it funny. I just found it while off putting in the 3D Space like I was looking at Early seasons RWBY Or the like. While with the third game they were able to do that without any of the extra It's stuff which I liked especially that 1 anime Trope part where when you're fighting mobius P and O When they interlink And of course when they monologue about how threatening they are just after you watch 2 important characters die. Mio ups and punches P in the face sending them flying without even being interlink. And give the two what for. I'm gonna say the girls doing their little pose was a lot better than that girl moment c*** that was an endgame (once Again anime beats comics even in the films lol)
I'm just gonna say it though I don't think anime signatures like the giant white eyes Or well I don't know I think when nia saw her wanted Poster and ended up glaring at Dormach When he insinuated that the picture of her was close to reality. Stuff like that was a bit silly. Everything involving Zeke That's an exception lol Especially when revolving around how fast he moves is taken into account When pyra picks up His turtle and he ups and grabs it from her even rex pointed out that he could have taken that moment to grab her but didn't.
Suffice to say if you balance it out that's good I mean look at torna the golden kingdom. I believe that was foreshadowing for how they would handle the anime stuff in The third game. I mean the other part I disliked about the 2nd game was just how the art direction was all over the d*** place because of all the guest artists. Many of them are good and they are good all of them the differences Is that because their artwork is stitched up all over the d*** game It's all over the place and I almost went blind from some of them especially a certain bit ball Blade. I get that she was meant to be homage to the old anime days where the women had to start their eyes but good f****** God that does not work. Well in the 3D format. Happy when they redid the 1st game and we're doing the dirt game. They did not make the same mistake again and use a consistent artist. Who does a good job I will give that. I can even see myself going back to the original 1st game with. How everyone's faces felt like they were painted on like. I was playing forbidden siren or something lol. It had its charm but I'm happy to move forward with. How. Things were that's the plus that the second game brought about especially with the remaster Of the first game
Xenosaga III had the best artstyle of the Xeno series and all future Xeno games should stick to that artstyle. Change my mind.
Xenosaga Ep3 characters designs were done by Mugitani Koichi who worked on XCX and XC2. I think he designed some for Skells for X. While for 2 he designed some rare Blades along with Telos.
He does some great work. Unfortunately though, MS is planning to have their own in-house artists handle the character designs for future games, so they aren't gonna ask him again probably.
Yes
Honestly I just want them to go further with the art style of X
Follow my streams at twitch.tv/mikedaddymcss
Definitely want Xeno to stay anime. I don't want the series to go down the path of Final Fantasy
Bro you used torna footage.
You are going to gain subscriber
I'm fine with some classically anime tropes, barring female party members smacking around the males for no reason.
Xenoblade has always been designed and intended to be an anime series in every way just in video game form
I think Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition hits the sweet spot for me artstyle-wise. I didn't like how a lot of faces in XC2 looked very samey. XCDE is undeniably anime, but it doesn't suffer from the "samey-face syndrome" that XC2 did. Also XC1 isn't filled with cringey tropes and relentless fanservice.
As an anime watcher, Xenoblade 2s art style doesn't even look very "anime" to me.
Off-topic but most of the problems that people have with anime (things like extremely large boobs) aren't even prominent in a lot of actual good anime.
Yeah, that's cause those are the good ones, lol. As someone who watches plenty of bad anime, I can confirm that there is a reason those negative stereotypes exist
I think we need more ginormous tiddie waifus, that's for sure. However, I would hate, though, that they went too shonen on the next game. The way they treated a lot of the situations in XC2 seemed a little too shonen to me (meaning, oriented to male male teens) while XC1 was definetely more seinen (adult or young adult men). I think when people say the last game is too anime is simply that they think they're too colorful, they've got too many skimpy clothed big tiddie female characters and that the situations (at the start of the game) seem a bit too childish (very common in shonen anime). As I said, I'm cool with the hot chicks (cause, frankly, if I have to stare to a character for lile 200 hours like I put into XC2, I'd rather she's hot; that's just how it is), but I would prefer they cut the comedy a tad cause in XC2 the beginning is way too relaxed.
(Read everything)
I agree, however
I don't want xenoblade to be "more anime" if that means "new" anime (cute, weird, exaggerated) now, if we are talking old anime... style-wise I'd love that
The thing I really didn't like about Xenoblade 2 was the character design, it quite literally screamed at your face "ANIIIMEEEE" and not old anime, new anime (weird, exaggerated, cute)
I still agree with you tho
More expressive characters? That'd be good
Better animation, etc? That'd be good
Better world building? That'd be good
Slice of li- what? NO, character development is good and can totally happen in "slice of life" scenarios, just don't overdo it to the point it becomes like "new anime"
I don't want the game to be style over substance (like many new Nintendo games lately sadly...) I agree on that too
They can off pull more with the Animestic Artstyle look at XC2 the definitive edition will benefit greatly from it.
Anime has tendencies, tropes and cliches. It has meaning to refer to something as anime.
Xenoblade Chronicles 1 obviously did have an artstyle. Just because it didn’t have a single art director doesn’t mean it didn’t have an art style. There is a cohesive style among the designs, if a vague one. They are more realistic and less stylised than 2, at least in the faces and proportions. Xenoblade Chronicles X followed this, 2 did not. I don’t care about the storyboards, this is how it turned out.
How hard is this to understand?
I definitely wouldn’t have played 2 if 1 didn’t exist. It’s just another JRPG, going back to the trends that 1 defied.
We’ve come to the point where XC is more anime than Kingdom Hearts, and that makes me want to die.
For fight choreography, yes. For literally anything else, no.
Looks like someone didn't watch the video
To me, anime refers to a certain storytelling, animation, and visual style. So yeah, if Xenoblade gets more "anime" that'd be really neat. I don't really care for the tropes all that much. Pyra is still my favorite character in the game, and that wouldn't change for any other reason than her character.
I’m not a huge fan of the trashy ecchi tropes in x2, like the hots springs scene. Other than that, I don’t dislike any “anime” aspects of xenonlade.
Ah, finally. A good take.
I would love a Kingdom hearts like, Xenoblade opening
You lost me at the OP
But, seriously I don't mind anime that much so as long as the games are good so I'm down with whatever. Great video, I love hearing your vision for the future of the series !
Edit: Phrasing
Nah. I hated the cringey ADHD-geeky anime stuff.
I also hate the cheap looking character art of Xenoblade Chronicles 2.
I'd prefer Xeno to start taking itself seriously again, the series could be HUGE if it did. The kiddy ADHD-wyfuaboo stuff is what's holding it back at this point.
Also, it would be a travesty if they replaced Xenoblade's beautiful environments with some kind of weird anime crap.
YES! The games are straight up anime and always have been. Why do people who hate anime play JRPGs?
Finally an intellectual
19:07 Luxin says trans rights?
No they should be more like X style wise
What the heck is OP!?
An opening, an intro, if you want.
I love you
Anime tends to equal fan service and super oversexualized designs. If you aren't into it, its cringy and stupid as hell. I don't mind it in anime. I don"t want it in my xenoblade game. No one takes you seriously when you say the video game with head-sized tits on it has substance, and I wouldn't blame them.
On the other hand, having a more defined art style is good. I am committed to monolith soft regardless. Loved all 3 games in the xenoblade series.
E Q U A L .
My thoughts exactly. Let the next Xenoblade game just take what XB2 did and improve upon it. Just tone down fan service and troupes and maybe add a more original protagonist (Rex is still a great protagonist but he is a little generic). Overall, XB2 did lots of great things for the series in terms of visuals and makes me excited to see XB3 in like 2029
Uhhhhhh 2029???
@@dinglberry3320 I mean, Monolith has to release their new IP which is probably late 2021 or early 2022
Then they will work on the follow up to XenoX which will release at least 3 years after that 2024-2025
Then it's XB3 at the earliest of 2028
naaa the fanservice is fine