Updates from Spy Nico Carver (@nebulaphotos, check his RUclips and Patreon!) who is on the ground: - The HAC125 won't be brought the US market. It can only be used with 1.25” eyepiece style cameras and only focused in front with a helical. - The ASI2600MC Air will have a wireless Ascom (Alpaca?) driver! phew! Thanks @nebulaphotos for checking on the ground and for the updates (seriously his YT channel is amazing, if you don't know him, check it out)
The HAC125 if priced reasonably is an interesting concept for widefield, though limited to 1.25" camera. Helical focusing manually is'nt a big deal, but I'd think 150mm minimum to have a bit more collection area given the obstruction is significant at 5". Also, from what I've read elsewhere from Nico it will only accept 1.25" filter on the nosecone of the camera. But still it's not a big deal honestly if the price is right, but maybe it isn't which is why it wasnt' indicated for the US market.
@@Visualographer_ Yeah. I have a Pegasus Astro Power Saddle on my AM5, and it makes me cry to have so much redundant power functionality in a separate AIR pro on the OTA, and be missing the controller CPU in the power saddle. So IF they ever do this make sure its >=10A and has Pegasus quality cables plugs, and enviromental dew control. That would be a killer. Sales droids and accountants ruin all the best engineering concepts with stupid compromises so they can ruin the user experience. (and make me buy 3 devices). Or maybe Pegasus Astro could add a miniPC to their saddle?
Yep, that makes the most sense. Yet there is something that feels intentional about using the camera instead, and I'm guessing it has to do with the effectiveness of lock in effect, but that's just me!
Integration into the camera makes a lot more sense in terms of data transfer speed. Main data flow is from the sensor to the ASI AIR and you gain a lot of speed by using an internal data bus instead of a USB cable. Data exchange between mount and ASI AIR is small and doesn't depend on fast transfer speeds. In any case it's another step towards a fully integrated smart scope with a cooled large size sensor. I bet ZWO will provide something like this within the next 2 years.
Given how hot the ASIAir can get, that Air x camera combo is gonna screw up all your dark frames with all the thermal and dark current-based noise that will come out of that. If anything, the added mass means your 80mm triplet frac won't be so front-heavy anymore eh? That Honders telescope though... we have something similar to that already. It's called the Rokinon/Samyang 135mm f2 lens.XD
Thanks for sharing Cuiv, so when you going to do a review on your new scope, Apertura CarbonStar 150 Imaging Newtonian? Does not look unreasonably priced, just curious on the actual usage and results? Thanks again, clear skies.
Thanks for this review. Any news about the ZWO rotator? It was quickly shown last year (but not released) and I think I saw a comment that it was finally announced. Was it shown at NEAF?
I am waiting (impatiently) for your review of the Apertura Carbon 150. It looks to be the perfect rival to your highly modified SW 150 Quattro. It looks to solve all of the issues you corrected and, with the reducer/corrector it costs little more than you invested in the Quattro. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be "stellar"!
What happens if your asiair camera breaks down, and you not only have to replace the brain, but also your not exactly cheap astrocamera. Integration is cool, until something breaks.
There has not been a single clear night this year in the UK, I think I had one or 2 in early jan don't remember, I'll most likely pack in the hobby as there's quite a few bob laying around not doing anything, new stuff doesn't interest me anymore.
@@CuivTheLazyGeekThese SW strain wave mounts look quite nice. I will be interested to see how they perform. As for the price, I assume they will be close to their similar ZWO mount prices: around 2K for the small and 3.5K for the big one? Who knows, but they'll be a cool addition to the mount's market.
I’ve seen quotes at $1700 for the 100i and $2200 for the 150i. They seem to have lower payloads than other similar mounts while looking bulkier. The SmartEye btw (which I’d love!) is quoted at $1500! (Never going to be able to justify that. lol). Being in the uk I fully expect a 1:1 usd to gbp conversion :-(
I wonder if that asiair2600 uses a custom PCB. I bet it does. Doesn't look like a raspberry pi would fit in there. USB ports in conjunction to the vents and the roundness don't look to support that. Asi air has a raspberry pi in it with custom is on a micro usb
Cool stuff. I like the ZWO camera. It reduces cable count by three, if I’m thinking correctly. On that hyperstar-like astrograph, there is a lot of central obstruction, so that would knock down the f/2 to something like T/2.4 to T/2.8 range, making it about 3x to 4x faster than a Redcat. Less than 6x, but still very fast.
Nice seleciton Cuiv! There is also another harmonic drive mount that you may review. If you like please let me know then I would assist to build the bridge to the manufacturer. Details we may talk via email.
The ZWO camera/air unit would likely be for a niche group. Someone who wanted a no-hassle setup, perhaps intimidated by hooking up external mini pc/ASI AIR, OAG, etc. However, the price for this may be the deciding point for some. More interesting to me was the semi-EAA eyepiece. Thanks for the video. I'll be on the lookout for the SW harmonic drives.
Thank you for this information. I share your mixed feelings about the new 2600 Air. One year ago I went the AIR/AM5 route to simplify my astrophotography and to be able to control most of it from inside my house using my iPad. This in place of a rig based on the GTi, an OM System OM-1 with a 100-400mm lens, and a reconditioned Dell laptop running Sharpcap and PhD2-and me dressed like an arctic explorer to sit motionless on my deck with the laptop in a laptop tent to control the whole thing. Overall that wasn’t a rewarding experience for someone who is 74, hence the change to the ZWO ecosystem. The only drawback for me was the inability to use any non-ZWO equipment, such as my excellent Player One Uranus planetary camera, which just resides on a shelf in my office now.😢. Your concern about the possibility that the 2600 AIR might not work with external AIRs is well-founded, especially given what its cost is likely to be. Yes, the new 2600 AIR advances the cause of simplification even more-no need for an external guide scope, fewer cables, etc.-but the question of future proofing remains. Again, thank you for the information. It will be interesting to see what other new equipment is announced at NEAF. I’m especially interested in what William Optics may announce.
I would want to see like a 1,25" mini motofocus for planetary imaging. Not connected to the focuser, just either a 1,25" or T2 extender with a motor controlled via remore for fast back/forth focusing. Then some large aperture planetary or general purpose compact telescopes. GSO Cass didn't went up to 12-14" sadly, SW has sub-aperture mak prototype somewhere (similar to that hyperstart look-alike). And don't forget the anti-cloud spray ;)
Of course, the active eyepiece is pretty cool as well and maybe even better than an image intensifier (night vision) tube. And is not affected by ITAR ;-)
The ZWO thing - that's a lot of combined kit when one part dies. The Honders - going to be very temperamental for a 250mm fl, probs outweighing the benefits of f2. 500mm and above more interesting - also the built in camera......hmmmm. SW harmonic mounts look good, especially for travel (EQ6 R Pro is kind of heavy for check in baggage).
Thanks for the heads up on the SW 150i, I am looking to buy a strainwave mount so I will hang fire a bit longer and see what SW have to offer. As for the ZWO camera, this is probably aimed at people who started of with their See Star50 smart scopes, it would be a natural progression if you think about it because you would already be familiar with ZWOs software, buy this camera, a scope with an EAF, and an AM mount, plug in and away you go. I think ZWO will sell a lot of these, particularly to people who started their astro photography journey recently with the See Star. I wont be one of them tough, I like my non ZWO gear and software to much. That final lens/scope looks awesome but I suspect that it will come at an awesome price, and I don't mean awesomely cheap either. Great round up Cuiv anyway, clear skies.
The Sky Watcher 150i has the cable management built-in and appear on the lower dove tail. Exactly where they should be. This is a good thing, since the power and USB connectors will move with the OTA. I don't understand your statement ... "The connectors are on the declination" ?
The smart eyepiece would be fantastic for education and getting people interested in astronomy for the first time. It think such a device is a wonderful idea. The ASI 2600 solves some major problems for astrophotography setups. However, this comes at a few costs. Foremost, this allows more compact and portable setups. The issue I have, is that you're stuck with the camera and computer. You can't swap it out with anything else. I think they should've went with a modular design where the camera and the computer can be connected together while still in a compact and elegant package. Another issue, well, it's ZWO. They try to lock you into their ecosystem, and you're dependent on them continuing to support the device and maintaining the software years later. ZWO build their proprietary software on top of existing open source software, I generally wouldn't have a problem with this if they supported the projects they use, and last time I checked, they usually don't. As always, fantastic video.
Thanks for summing it up - I feel compared to last year this is all a bit underwhelming. And I guess that ZWO calls the combination of two of their devices the "ultimate innovation" tells us a lot about how high their innovation level presently is.... Next year they offer the 2600 MC Air fixed on one of their scopes and call it the "ultimate innovation"..... 🤣 Something to look out for: The ZWO Rotator...... I heard they have three pieces for presentation there but it seems still not ready..... Really hard for me to grasp.... 🤯
I'm not so worried about that since the Peltier produces far, far more heat on its hot side (that needs to be expelled anyway), and I assume they designed it to be well separated. Heck, maybe they have a more powerful processor in there because for the first time an ASIAir has proper ventilation?
the asi2600 with asiair all in one, i doubt that a newbie would jump on an asi2600 right away, they always fall first between the asi533 or asi294, but as you say it's a risky bet if you want to switch to a NUC to use n.i.n.a for example, you'll be tied to zwo. i loved the first camera (smarteye), a digital eyepiece is not a bad idea and the imx533 camera is not bad, it would be good to try it for planetary images which is the first thing people want to see in a telescope, jupiter and saturn.
There is nothing wrong with your telescope. Do not attempt to adjust the focus. We are controlling your equipment. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. For the next session, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: There is nothing wrong with your telescope. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The ZWO Limits.
@@erewhon42 I am a big ZWO fan. But that doesn't mean I won't take a shot at their proprietary system once and awhile. That said I might end up with one of these new cameras if they become available. But for those to young to know, there was a tv show years ago called the Outer Limits that started with that basic intro.
@@marvinwhisman3333 I use the control the vertical / horizontal line on my kids sometimes. :-) Yeah that camera is interesting. I appreciate there might be benefits to the integration. I guess my biggest concern is more on the sensor side... that you're paying extra for the Air part. Then again, maybe at the price point people aren't going to upgrade the camera every couple of years.
I’m wanting to get an asi duo (not air) & i would hope a price drop will be coming for the base duo model. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to have a camera w/ an air be the same price as a camera without. Also have been wanting to get another harmonic drive mount for travel. Was eyeing an ioptron hem but the fact you can mount two cameras is making me lean towards skywatcher
The 2600air is interesting. I think it will have a market for beginners and travel scopes.im most interested in the skywatcher hca150. I look forward to your video on the apatura newt. Im kinda eyeing the 10in one for imaging from home
Shame about the HAC125 but sounds like a PITA like the Coronado PST (also only compatible with an eyepiece camera) with an added need to collimate, yikes! The ZWO ASI2600MC Air is just plain weird. Sounds good for travel. Would the ASCOM driver allow the camera to be used in NINA with a Windows PC? I would rather get the ASI2600MC Pro by itself and get the damn CAA!
That little "hyperstar" type scope is the thing I am most interested in. I would love to have a baby RASA and if the price is right (less than a C6 with a hyperstar" that may be a my next scope if we can get in in the US!
2600 AIR is such a huge L and stupid sidestep for the consumer whichever way you look at it. The biggest hurdle beginner astrophotographers face is the processing, not the capturing. This isn't just my opinion, I've done multiple polls to the community on my Twitter and Instagram and the large majority agree with this. You can have an awesome 2600 sensor, but if you still struggle with even doing flats or dealing with gradients, then the simplistic nature of the hugely closed ecosystem doesn't matter. Ignoring all the other obvious problems like 0 upgrade path, eggs all in one basket in terms of single point of failure. The Skywatcher HAC125 is mega cool, so is the Pegasus eyepiece, those are niche products for niche use cases and actual slight progression. Meanwhile, 2026 will come and ZWO will be releasing more 'ground breaking products' by integrating the EAF and CAA to the 2600 AIR and call it the 2600 DUO AIR Plus CAA EAF... smh.
Also I'm calling it now, electrical interference happening on the 2600 AIR is inevitable. Running Wifi, data and power all in an enclosed shell is asking for trouble.
That ZWO camera, classic case of packing in three major componants (main cam, guide cam, Air) and only one of them has to be faulty and you have literally lost your entire imaging setup with nothing swapoutable. Really a bridge too far especially considered the reputation ZWO is getting for managing faults and returns.
I think the 2600mc Air is interesting. Cable and equipment management is one thing that is very off-putting for beginners. Even veterans. Reducing cables is always welcome. It'll be even better if they can build in a battery so that you can have a zero-cable setup (or one cable for the EAF). Would be great for a RASA/HyperStar setup. No cable going out of the camera.
does the 2600 Air have an SD Card slot? What happens if something breaks in the "Air" controller? Do you end up with a 2k useless piece of metal? I don't know... I'm skeptic :D
Thanks for the update. I predict that EAA scopes are going to take over. They are going to get better. And the price of traditional scopes / refractors is going to continue to collapse. I have a Skywatcher Esprit 100 ED, HEQ5 mount, ZWO ASIAir & Eaf. I also have a Seestar and a Vespera. Know what I use mostly? Seestar & Vespera. I'm 70, and setting up the Skywatcher, polar align etc is getting old. And I have a Terabit of images. If I could get a Vanois type scope of say 70mm F4 or 5 removable micro sd. I would sell everything else.
Interesting idea (the combination of the ASI2600 Duo and the ASIair). In my opinion, the Duo is the most practical (because you avoid the OAG weight and backfocus consumption), and it seems very suitable for operating on camera lenses using a filter wheel (normally, you would want an OAG for guiding, I think). The new strain mount from Skywatcher is quite intriguing, I have to admit. It seems good enough for a Skymax 180 or C9.25 at the top end at a first glance
I’m going to bet that that USB-C port on the 2600 will allow external control of some sort. Personally as a 2600 MC duo owner I don’t have much interest in this camera since I do prefer to keep the control portion of my rig separate from the Optics and camera. But I could see why it would appeal to some people.
I might have to stop watching yours and others channels doing reviews of new stuff... I can't afford this hobby anymore!! lol What I'd really like to see is someone put out some kind of strain wave mount 'kits' so you could modify older mounts to this technology.
Skywatcher does not have the HAC125 at Neaf. They say that it's not ready for release for various reasons including only taking a 1.25 cam and difficult focusing.
I've been to NEAF a few times, and I always enjoy it. The Honders looks interesting.... also the Wave 150i. However, I'm very confused about that ASI Air camera combo 🤔
Zwo's new cam is interesting but it's kind of like the apple vs android camps. (?) Skywatcher is kicking tail this year! I can't wait to see the hac125 and the wave mounts reviews! (even though I just picked up a cgem 2 for an I can't pass this up price. I hope it's a good one without the typical troubles...)
Maybe iOS vs Android, but not macOS vs Windows ;-) A Mac computer is very open and the new Apple silicon allows the installation of iPadOS and iOS software…
the honders is similar to a RH200 but with the camera in the front...so pretty shit vs the camera at the back, collimation isn't that bad mate:) my scope if F3 and it's not that hard
interesting - can we all agree to just start calling the ZWO all-in-one the Frankencam? I think that works. The Skywatcher scope you showed at the end - VERY interesting. I would love to hear about pricing on that. Honestly, I like the fact we're seeing more and more competition for the strain wave mounts. That's only going to benefit the consumer in driving prices down.
Hi, thanks for this vidoe, just a comment on ASCOM Driver over wifi it, already exist and it's called Ascom Alpaga. Just setup a windows PC with your ASCOM driver on it, that control your mount. And with another PC with NINA and ASCOM Alpaga (1 alpaga driver per ASCOM driver) and that's it
Cuiv, Luis from NY here. Will be at NEAF Saturday gathering content for my new channel so I will do some interviews with Skywatcher and ZWO and see what’s what. Will send you a report back! Excellent video as always Cuiv! Still idk v the Stellarmate pro? Im thinking of getting one but still on the fence about it and the price of it.
My vixen sxd2 mount will not be able to work with the zwo camera, it needs to have an ethernet port, with this product they killed the connections to wired vixen mounts.
Although tour SXD2 should be compatible with the Starbook Wireless which is compatible with the ASIAir in Station mode... But yeah not as good as wired...
I think Skywatcher is trying to out-do the current strain wave mounts on the market with a cheaper one. Which is good, I like when companies compete and race to the bottom in price. 😁
Unfortunately, now that ZWO has their own mounts, I think you’re going to see less and less compatibility….. They want you to be fully assimilated into the ZWO universe……. Just my humble opinion
I saw a picture of the 2600MC Air what is showing the back, and that has a type c port, right next to (or below - if you see it from this angle what you showed in the video) the wifi antenna.
Not sure about this. Have you ever bumped you head against the eyepiece while observing? This electronic eyepiece does live stacking. No bumping allowed...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I looked that one. It is not serious mount. I made research. There is a prototype (but it can be ordered now) of strain geared mount from JWT Astronomy. Looks powerful: backlash free, 0.02” resolution, encoders on both axis, 15kg payload. This mount doesn’t need guiding. Price €5K including VAT. Great name as well FireANT. Generally, selection of mounts from JWT is impressive. There is one - Chimera - weight 10kg, payload 35kg and loaded with features. €8K.
The Air-camera is ideal for portability and I would say EAA use with the Wifi. And honestly lets consider the possibilities for a smart-telescope based off this as part of a modular system where the Air-camera could be combined with a focuser/filter wheel module and port into an AM5.
As a lifelong marketing guy, a new product announcement without a price is a HUGE blunder. Is Pegasus Astro embarrassed by their price? Afraid they’ll scare off buyers? In truth, the price is what it is: specify it. When I couldn’t find a price, I moved on.
I was at NEAF 2024 Saturday! Cuiv, I encourage you to keep your eye on Celestron, new player to the game of electronically assisted astronomy. Their “Origin”, not released yet is based upon RASA design! I only got a glimpse of it and brief chat with reps. The potential outreach of these sorts of user friendly tools to create celestial enthusiasts is staggering, especially when small groups can simultaneously tap into the evolving image as subs accumulate, then download and save those objects explored, same day! What a user friendly concept. Can’t help but believe this exciting technology is destined to grow!
Updates from Spy Nico Carver (@nebulaphotos, check his RUclips and Patreon!) who is on the ground:
- The HAC125 won't be brought the US market. It can only be used with 1.25” eyepiece style cameras and only focused in front with a helical.
- The ASI2600MC Air will have a wireless Ascom (Alpaca?) driver! phew!
Thanks @nebulaphotos for checking on the ground and for the updates (seriously his YT channel is amazing, if you don't know him, check it out)
It's real (ASI2600MC AIR), They introduced it in China social networks.
The HAC125 if priced reasonably is an interesting concept for widefield, though limited to 1.25" camera. Helical focusing manually is'nt a big deal, but I'd think 150mm minimum to have a bit more collection area given the obstruction is significant at 5". Also, from what I've read elsewhere from Nico it will only accept 1.25" filter on the nosecone of the camera. But still it's not a big deal honestly if the price is right, but maybe it isn't which is why it wasnt' indicated for the US market.
Got to meet Nico and Trevor, but not you Cuiv😢
Instead of building the air into the camera, they should build it into the mount, with all the ports on the top.
Exactly
@@Visualographer_ Yeah. I have a Pegasus Astro Power Saddle on my AM5, and it makes me cry to have so much redundant power functionality in a separate AIR pro on the OTA, and be missing the controller CPU in the power saddle. So IF they ever do this make sure its >=10A and has Pegasus quality cables plugs, and enviromental dew control. That would be a killer. Sales droids and accountants ruin all the best engineering concepts with stupid compromises so they can ruin the user experience. (and make me buy 3 devices). Or maybe Pegasus Astro could add a miniPC to their saddle?
Yep, that makes the most sense. Yet there is something that feels intentional about using the camera instead, and I'm guessing it has to do with the effectiveness of lock in effect, but that's just me!
Integration into the camera makes a lot more sense in terms of data transfer speed. Main data flow is from the sensor to the ASI AIR and you gain a lot of speed by using an internal data bus instead of a USB cable. Data exchange between mount and ASI AIR is small and doesn't depend on fast transfer speeds. In any case it's another step towards a fully integrated smart scope with a cooled large size sensor. I bet ZWO will provide something like this within the next 2 years.
this is the right answer
Awesome break down mate!! That little honders f2 is a rather nifty looking scope haha!
He's right. Collimating f/2 is a bugger of a job. And keeping it collimated is a challenge.
Woohoo, thanks Luke!
the 2600mc air is a really good idea for travel i think, ultra compact and the need for cables is minimised
Good point! Although I'm not convinced about it being so fully integrated into a camera. It's a great strategic move though!
Agreed. I use a 2600MC with the air and a guide scope for travelling. This one takes two of them out of the equation. That’s big!
Given how hot the ASIAir can get, that Air x camera combo is gonna screw up all your dark frames with all the thermal and dark current-based noise that will come out of that. If anything, the added mass means your 80mm triplet frac won't be so front-heavy anymore eh?
That Honders telescope though... we have something similar to that already. It's called the Rokinon/Samyang 135mm f2 lens.XD
Thanks for sharing Cuiv, so when you going to do a review on your new scope, Apertura CarbonStar 150 Imaging Newtonian? Does not look unreasonably priced, just curious on the actual usage and results?
Thanks again, clear skies.
It's actually quite reasonably priced - currently still working on the review, there's a lot to edit :)
Pegasus @ NEAF was quoting around $1500. The views in the eyepiece were very impressive.
Wow, that's more expensive than I thought... Not sure if it makes sense at that price...
Ther is a video about a new Skywatcher newtonian for astrophotography: ruclips.net/video/MdBN-P43yaw/видео.html
Thanks!
Thanks for this review. Any news about the ZWO rotator? It was quickly shown last year (but not released) and I think I saw a comment that it was finally announced. Was it shown at NEAF?
They had three on display this year apparently - might be released in the next few months? Maybe?
I am waiting (impatiently) for your review of the Apertura Carbon 150. It looks to be the perfect rival to your highly modified SW 150 Quattro. It looks to solve all of the issues you corrected and, with the reducer/corrector it costs little more than you invested in the Quattro. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be "stellar"!
A great match for sure :-)
The electronic eyepiece seems kind of bonkers too, unless it was a night vision one but it’s not
What happens if your asiair camera breaks down, and you not only have to replace the brain, but also your not exactly cheap astrocamera. Integration is cool, until something breaks.
Yep!
There has not been a single clear night this year in the UK, I think I had one or 2 in early jan don't remember, I'll most likely pack in the hobby as there's quite a few bob laying around not doing anything, new stuff doesn't interest me anymore.
Oh no :( I do hope you get some good weather soon...
That SW 150i Strain Wave mount is high up on my list of things to get. Probably this summer when I start building the second observatory.
Better get an UMi :)
Will be interesting to see the prices, etc!
@@CuivTheLazyGeekThese SW strain wave mounts look quite nice. I will be interested to see how they perform. As for the price, I assume they will be close to their similar ZWO mount prices: around 2K for the small and 3.5K for the big one? Who knows, but they'll be a cool addition to the mount's market.
I’ve seen quotes at $1700 for the 100i and $2200 for the 150i. They seem to have lower payloads than other similar mounts while looking bulkier. The SmartEye btw (which I’d love!) is quoted at $1500! (Never going to be able to justify that. lol). Being in the uk I fully expect a 1:1 usd to gbp conversion :-(
Those Skywatcher harmonic drives look nice. Also very Excited to see the New Apertura 150mm review!
SkyWatcher @ NEAF said that scope hasn’t made it across the ocean yet.
Thanks for the update!
And what about the ZWO rotator? Zero news since last year. Have they given up?…..
They have three on display - but then they had one last year too...
I wonder if that asiair2600 uses a custom PCB. I bet it does. Doesn't look like a raspberry pi would fit in there. USB ports in conjunction to the vents and the roundness don't look to support that. Asi air has a raspberry pi in it with custom is on a micro usb
*custom os
It's an ASIAir Mini, so yes it's a custom PCB. The ASIAir Mini doesn't use the Rpi
Does the eyepiece camera have a video output so that you can observe on a larger screen?
I think you can also get the images wirelessly to a tablet or smartphone
Cool stuff. I like the ZWO camera. It reduces cable count by three, if I’m thinking correctly. On that hyperstar-like astrograph, there is a lot of central obstruction, so that would knock down the f/2 to something like T/2.4 to T/2.8 range, making it about 3x to 4x faster than a Redcat. Less than 6x, but still very fast.
Nice seleciton Cuiv! There is also another harmonic drive mount that you may review. If you like please let me know then I would assist to build the bridge to the manufacturer. Details we may talk via email.
Let me know at cuivlazygeek at gmail com
@@CuivTheLazyGeek the email is on it's way from Germany to Japan. I hope the carrier pigeon can make such long distance for some mail. 😄
The ZWO camera/air unit would likely be for a niche group. Someone who wanted a no-hassle setup, perhaps intimidated by hooking up external mini pc/ASI AIR, OAG, etc. However, the price for this may be the deciding point for some. More interesting to me was the semi-EAA eyepiece. Thanks for the video. I'll be on the lookout for the SW harmonic drives.
Thank you for this information. I share your mixed feelings about the new 2600 Air. One year ago I went the AIR/AM5 route to simplify my astrophotography and to be able to control most of it from inside my house using my iPad. This in place of a rig based on the GTi, an OM System OM-1 with a 100-400mm lens, and a reconditioned Dell laptop running Sharpcap and PhD2-and me dressed like an arctic explorer to sit motionless on my deck with the laptop in a laptop tent to control the whole thing. Overall that wasn’t a rewarding experience for someone who is 74, hence the change to the ZWO ecosystem. The only drawback for me was the inability to use any non-ZWO equipment, such as my excellent Player One Uranus planetary camera, which just resides on a shelf in my office now.😢. Your concern about the possibility that the 2600 AIR might not work with external AIRs is well-founded, especially given what its cost is likely to be. Yes, the new 2600 AIR advances the cause of simplification even more-no need for an external guide scope, fewer cables, etc.-but the question of future proofing remains. Again, thank you for the information. It will be interesting to see what other new equipment is announced at NEAF. I’m especially interested in what William Optics may announce.
Exactly, fully agreed! And yes, always interested in what WO will show off!
The HAC125 is now sold at around 500USD equivalent here in China. At this price I feel it's worth trying.
I would want to see like a 1,25" mini motofocus for planetary imaging. Not connected to the focuser, just either a 1,25" or T2 extender with a motor controlled via remore for fast back/forth focusing. Then some large aperture planetary or general purpose compact telescopes. GSO Cass didn't went up to 12-14" sadly, SW has sub-aperture mak prototype somewhere (similar to that hyperstart look-alike). And don't forget the anti-cloud spray ;)
Oh yes that would be super cool!! And anti cloud spray lol
Of course, the active eyepiece is pretty cool as well and maybe even better than an image intensifier (night vision) tube. And is not affected by ITAR ;-)
Exactly! Will be cool to see how it's priced and how well it works
The eye piece camera is worthless as it will cause more movement to your scope !
Only when you're looking through it, at which time it would just stop stacking afaik
The ZWO thing - that's a lot of combined kit when one part dies. The Honders - going to be very temperamental for a 250mm fl, probs outweighing the benefits of f2. 500mm and above more interesting - also the built in camera......hmmmm. SW harmonic mounts look good, especially for travel (EQ6 R Pro is kind of heavy for check in baggage).
Thanks for the heads up on the SW 150i, I am looking to buy a strainwave mount so I will hang fire a bit longer and see what SW have to offer. As for the ZWO camera, this is probably aimed at people who started of with their See Star50 smart scopes, it would be a natural progression if you think about it because you would already be familiar with ZWOs software, buy this camera, a scope with an EAF, and an AM mount, plug in and away you go. I think ZWO will sell a lot of these, particularly to people who started their astro photography journey recently with the See Star. I wont be one of them tough, I like my non ZWO gear and software to much.
That final lens/scope looks awesome but I suspect that it will come at an awesome price, and I don't mean awesomely cheap either. Great round up Cuiv anyway, clear skies.
Yep fully agree there - we'll see how that ZWO strategy goes!
The Sky Watcher 150i has the cable management built-in and appear on the lower dove tail. Exactly where they should be. This is a good thing, since the power and USB connectors will move with the OTA. I don't understand your statement ... "The connectors are on the declination" ?
The smart eyepiece would be fantastic for education and getting people interested in astronomy for the first time. It think such a device is a wonderful idea.
The ASI 2600 solves some major problems for astrophotography setups. However, this comes at a few costs. Foremost, this allows more compact and portable setups. The issue I have, is that you're stuck with the camera and computer. You can't swap it out with anything else. I think they should've went with a modular design where the camera and the computer can be connected together while still in a compact and elegant package. Another issue, well, it's ZWO. They try to lock you into their ecosystem, and you're dependent on them continuing to support the device and maintaining the software years later. ZWO build their proprietary software on top of existing open source software, I generally wouldn't have a problem with this if they supported the projects they use, and last time I checked, they usually don't.
As always, fantastic video.
Thanks for summing it up - I feel compared to last year this is all a bit underwhelming. And I guess that ZWO calls the combination of two of their devices the "ultimate innovation" tells us a lot about how high their innovation level presently is.... Next year they offer the 2600 MC Air fixed on one of their scopes and call it the "ultimate innovation"..... 🤣 Something to look out for: The ZWO Rotator...... I heard they have three pieces for presentation there but it seems still not ready..... Really hard for me to grasp.... 🤯
Fully agreed! And yes, it's weird the rotator is causing them so much trouble!!
1. AM7 Mount?
2. Skywatcher 130p for USA market?
3. ZWO eyepiece cameras like qhy?
4. USA market carbon fiber 150-200mm f4 scope with rack pinion focuser?
5. RGBL sensor?
4 sounds like the Apertura CarbonStar, although it has a high quality Crayford instead
Wouldn't connecting a heat source to a cooled camera be counterproductive?
Looks like there is the big air gap in between, so I guess it is OK….
I'm not so worried about that since the Peltier produces far, far more heat on its hot side (that needs to be expelled anyway), and I assume they designed it to be well separated. Heck, maybe they have a more powerful processor in there because for the first time an ASIAir has proper ventilation?
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Exactly. Did not even think of that. TEC generates heat !!! ☝️
the asi2600 with asiair all in one, i doubt that a newbie would jump on an asi2600 right away, they always fall first between the asi533 or asi294, but as you say it's a risky bet if you want to switch to a NUC to use n.i.n.a for example, you'll be tied to zwo. i loved the first camera (smarteye), a digital eyepiece is not a bad idea and the imx533 camera is not bad, it would be good to try it for planetary images which is the first thing people want to see in a telescope, jupiter and saturn.
Look out for Starpoint Australis' observatory tents at NEAF! Octans and Phoenix
Oooh nice!
There is nothing wrong with your telescope. Do not attempt to adjust the focus. We are controlling your equipment. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. For the next session, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: There is nothing wrong with your telescope. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The ZWO Limits.
Now that's a deep cut!
@@erewhon42 I am a big ZWO fan. But that doesn't mean I won't take a shot at their proprietary system once and awhile. That said I might end up with one of these new cameras if they become available. But for those to young to know, there was a tv show years ago called the Outer Limits that started with that basic intro.
@@marvinwhisman3333 I use the control the vertical / horizontal line on my kids sometimes. :-)
Yeah that camera is interesting. I appreciate there might be benefits to the integration. I guess my biggest concern is more on the sensor side... that you're paying extra for the Air part. Then again, maybe at the price point people aren't going to upgrade the camera every couple of years.
Hahahah I LOVE this characterization Marvin!
new WAVE SW mounts. nobody could have made a more boring looking mount. looks like a coffee tin can.
I don't think the 2600MC-Air is going to be for beginners, thats going to be a $3000 item based on the base Duo model.
Some are saying it's going to be $2000 (!?), which would mean the same price as the Duo!
For all us mere mortals, don't expect anything you just saw to be less than £2000. 😕
I’m wanting to get an asi duo (not air) & i would hope a price drop will be coming for the base duo model. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to have a camera w/ an air be the same price as a camera without. Also have been wanting to get another harmonic drive mount for travel. Was eyeing an ioptron hem but the fact you can mount two cameras is making me lean towards skywatcher
Just wish ZWO would hurry up with the CAA they showcased last year and it's still not ready :(
Could you please do a walkthrough tutorial guide on how to use startnet ++ for siril?
I do love your vids of course.
The 2600air is interesting. I think it will have a market for beginners and travel scopes.im most interested in the skywatcher hca150. I look forward to your video on the apatura newt. Im kinda eyeing the 10in one for imaging from home
Shame about the HAC125 but sounds like a PITA like the Coronado PST (also only compatible with an eyepiece camera) with an added need to collimate, yikes!
The ZWO ASI2600MC Air is just plain weird. Sounds good for travel. Would the ASCOM driver allow the camera to be used in NINA with a Windows PC? I would rather get the ASI2600MC Pro by itself and get the damn CAA!
Yep, i agree, it remains to be seen how exactly it will work...
That little "hyperstar" type scope is the thing I am most interested in. I would love to have a baby RASA and if the price is right (less than a C6 with a hyperstar" that may be a my next scope if we can get in in the US!
It looks so cute!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek it really is! Can't wait to see more about it.
There's a ZWO Rotator there that is supposedly going to release in 4 months.
hac 125 , just why , camera lense spec, rather f4 refractor to attach filter wheel and auto focuser
LMAO at your ZWO Franken-camera comment. Really limits future upgradeability.
Will be very interesting to see what the future holds
So am I! This is probably worse than Apple marketing.😊
I don't really care about new mounts or cameras unless it means they are becoming more affordable.
The Honders F2 seems to be available in one of the astronomy shops in Australia.
2600 AIR is such a huge L and stupid sidestep for the consumer whichever way you look at it. The biggest hurdle beginner astrophotographers face is the processing, not the capturing. This isn't just my opinion, I've done multiple polls to the community on my Twitter and Instagram and the large majority agree with this. You can have an awesome 2600 sensor, but if you still struggle with even doing flats or dealing with gradients, then the simplistic nature of the hugely closed ecosystem doesn't matter. Ignoring all the other obvious problems like 0 upgrade path, eggs all in one basket in terms of single point of failure.
The Skywatcher HAC125 is mega cool, so is the Pegasus eyepiece, those are niche products for niche use cases and actual slight progression. Meanwhile, 2026 will come and ZWO will be releasing more 'ground breaking products' by integrating the EAF and CAA to the 2600 AIR and call it the 2600 DUO AIR Plus CAA EAF... smh.
Also I'm calling it now, electrical interference happening on the 2600 AIR is inevitable. Running Wifi, data and power all in an enclosed shell is asking for trouble.
ZWO is the Apple of the astronomy world.
I've been very disconected from Astro lately, too much work, thank you for keeping me informed
No worries!
That ZWO combo camera is ?? Someone thought it was a built-in rotator, but I guess that wasn't it! Thanks so much for the great video, Cuiv!
Thanks Greg! It's a very interesting camera for sure lol
That ZWO camera, classic case of packing in three major componants (main cam, guide cam, Air) and only one of them has to be faulty and you have literally lost your entire imaging setup with nothing swapoutable. Really a bridge too far especially considered the reputation ZWO is getting for managing faults and returns.
Yeah, to be seen...
I think the 2600mc Air is interesting. Cable and equipment management is one thing that is very off-putting for beginners. Even veterans. Reducing cables is always welcome. It'll be even better if they can build in a battery so that you can have a zero-cable setup (or one cable for the EAF). Would be great for a RASA/HyperStar setup. No cable going out of the camera.
I see what you mean, although I still see many potential issues with this!
does the 2600 Air have an SD Card slot? What happens if something breaks in the "Air" controller? Do you end up with a 2k useless piece of metal?
I don't know... I'm skeptic :D
Yeah...
Thanks for the update. I predict that EAA scopes are going to take over. They are going to get better. And the price of traditional scopes / refractors is going to continue to collapse.
I have a Skywatcher Esprit 100 ED, HEQ5 mount, ZWO ASIAir & Eaf. I also have a Seestar and a Vespera. Know what I use mostly? Seestar & Vespera. I'm 70, and setting up the Skywatcher, polar align etc is getting old. And I have a Terabit of images. If I could get a Vanois type scope of say 70mm F4 or 5 removable micro sd. I would sell everything else.
Fully understand the logic! Yeah the Seestar and Vespera have that "just plop it down" quality...
Interesting idea (the combination of the ASI2600 Duo and the ASIair). In my opinion, the Duo is the most practical (because you avoid the OAG weight and backfocus consumption), and it seems very suitable for operating on camera lenses using a filter wheel (normally, you would want an OAG for guiding, I think).
The new strain mount from Skywatcher is quite intriguing, I have to admit. It seems good enough for a Skymax 180 or C9.25 at the top end at a first glance
Yep, I agree on the 2600 air, we'll see how it goes!
I’m going to bet that that USB-C port on the 2600 will allow external control of some sort. Personally as a 2600 MC duo owner I don’t have much interest in this camera since I do prefer to keep the control portion of my rig separate from the Optics and camera. But I could see why it would appeal to some people.
I really really hope so!
I might have to stop watching yours and others channels doing reviews of new stuff... I can't afford this hobby anymore!! lol
What I'd really like to see is someone put out some kind of strain wave mount 'kits' so you could modify older mounts to this technology.
Hahaha it's still fun to watch reviews of stuff you can't buy :-) oh a do it yourself OnStep SWG retrofit would be super cool!
see good use of the new ZWO for outreach EAA stuff, simple not a lot to set up just link in with tablet or phone and off to the viewing.
Skywatcher does not have the HAC125 at Neaf. They say that it's not ready for release for various reasons including only taking a 1.25 cam and difficult focusing.
So maybe a failed project then :/
I've been to NEAF a few times, and I always enjoy it. The Honders looks interesting.... also the Wave 150i. However, I'm very confused about that ASI Air camera combo 🤔
Yeah you're not alone in being confused about that :)
Zwo's new cam is interesting but it's kind of like the apple vs android camps. (?)
Skywatcher is kicking tail this year! I can't wait to see the hac125 and the wave mounts reviews! (even though I just picked up a cgem 2 for an I can't pass this up price. I hope it's a good one without the typical troubles...)
Maybe iOS vs Android, but not macOS vs Windows ;-) A Mac computer is very open and the new Apple silicon allows the installation of iPadOS and iOS software…
ASI2600MC Air is real? I thought it’s an April’s Fool joke!
I thought so too!
the honders is similar to a RH200 but with the camera in the front...so pretty shit vs the camera at the back, collimation isn't that bad mate:) my scope if F3 and it's not that hard
Right, but I'm assuming it's going to be less expensive :)
interesting - can we all agree to just start calling the ZWO all-in-one the Frankencam? I think that works. The Skywatcher scope you showed at the end - VERY interesting. I would love to hear about pricing on that. Honestly, I like the fact we're seeing more and more competition for the strain wave mounts. That's only going to benefit the consumer in driving prices down.
Fully agree! And yes, Frankencam is a good name :-)
Hi, thanks for this vidoe, just a comment on ASCOM Driver over wifi it, already exist and it's called Ascom Alpaga. Just setup a windows PC with your ASCOM driver on it, that control your mount. And with another PC with NINA and ASCOM Alpaga (1 alpaga driver per ASCOM driver) and that's it
Yes, aware of Alpaca! Thanks!
Cuiv, Luis from NY here. Will be at NEAF Saturday gathering content for my new channel so I will do some interviews with Skywatcher and ZWO and see what’s what. Will send you a report back! Excellent video as always Cuiv! Still idk v the Stellarmate pro? Im thinking of getting one but still on the fence about it and the price of it.
Awesome Luis!! On the SM Pro, I've heard some struggle with it, so it's really if you like full control!
I was scared as you stared into the camera and said “I’m looking at you” Pause “ZWO” because I was afraid you ment me.
Escaped again one more time 😂
Hahaha sorry!
*** Oh no, I have puchased a Quattro 200P now! But I'm choosing my new camera! So very good newsssssssss
Congrats on your scope!
My vixen sxd2 mount will not be able to work with the zwo camera, it needs to have an ethernet port, with this product they killed the connections to wired vixen mounts.
Although tour SXD2 should be compatible with the Starbook Wireless which is compatible with the ASIAir in Station mode... But yeah not as good as wired...
HEM27 from Ioptron has through the mount cabling ;-)
Nice! Thanks for correcting me!
I think Skywatcher is trying to out-do the current strain wave mounts on the market with a cheaper one. Which is good, I like when companies compete and race to the bottom in price. 😁
I hope so!! The SWG market needs more competition and lower prices!
Great video man! So just by the specs, thoughts on AM5 vs SW150i ?
Honestly they feel very similar, the price will also be a factor!
Very cool!
ZWO should make the ASI air as a separate product that can be used on any mount, with any camera.
Unfortunately, now that ZWO has their own mounts, I think you’re going to see less and less compatibility….. They want you to be fully assimilated into the ZWO universe……. Just my humble opinion
It's the reason why they can sell their camera with higher price.
This is what ToupTek is doing now!
I saw a picture of the 2600MC Air what is showing the back, and that has a type c port, right next to (or below - if you see it from this angle what you showed in the video) the wifi antenna.
Right, but from what I hear it can't be used to control the camera (e.g. so it's the same USB C port as is in the ASIAir mini), time will tell though!
That eyepiece with 20-25” DOB will be very interesting.
Not sure about this. Have you ever bumped you head against the eyepiece while observing? This electronic eyepiece does live stacking. No bumping allowed...
@@justklaas4703 it depends on eyepiece. I don’t bump, if eyepiece is from Pentax.
Yep, it will also depend on how it does stacking, so it will be interesting to see!
as far as I know the hac125 largest usable sensor it he 585 which is a bit of a shame but at the same time it could be a budget f2 scope? hopefully?
Yeah, it does look like it would only support small sensors, I'll be very interested in learning more about that scope!
We need more videos! More...MORE...MOOOOOOORE! Muahahahaha ;)
Moooooooooooooaaaaaaaare!
I just subscribed. I already have the new Apertura 150 in my Highpoint cart..... CAN'T WAIT FOR YOUR REVIEW!!!!!
Coming as soon as I have several clear nights lol
@@CuivTheLazyGeek You're my hero!
Sky-Watcher wake up ! ZWO heating the market 😁
And their camera!
What happened to the ZWO rotator from last year? Still not on the market.
It's on display at NEAIC and NEAF, but not released yet...
peg-a-sus , or peg-ah-sis. NOT peg-assus :)
Do we have strain gear mounts made in Japan, Europe or the US (except Pegasus)? What is PlaneWave, AP, etc waiting for?
Sure, there's the SS One Traveler for instance , but I don't know of others - hopefully Vixen is working on something!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I looked that one. It is not serious mount.
I made research. There is a prototype (but it can be ordered now) of strain geared mount from JWT Astronomy. Looks powerful: backlash free, 0.02” resolution, encoders on both axis, 15kg payload. This mount doesn’t need guiding. Price €5K including VAT. Great name as well FireANT.
Generally, selection of mounts from JWT is impressive. There is one - Chimera - weight 10kg, payload 35kg and loaded with features. €8K.
The Air-camera is ideal for portability and I would say EAA use with the Wifi. And honestly lets consider the possibilities for a smart-telescope based off this as part of a modular system where the Air-camera could be combined with a focuser/filter wheel module and port into an AM5.
There are lots of all in one solutions. Like smart eyepiece or asiair camera.
I think I'm going to right direction with my Android stacking app.
I know I need to get to it :-) keep reminding me!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek actually I'm really surprised so many all-on one solutions
So, no ZWO rotator so far... Hm...
They apparently have three on display... But they also had one on display last year...
How about a see star S80
I'll be in Tokyo tomorrow! Currently working as Resident Astronomer on a cruise ship.
I loved the eyepiece concept until I thought about power.
Seems to be USB-C powered
As a lifelong marketing guy, a new product announcement without a price is a HUGE blunder. Is Pegasus Astro embarrassed by their price? Afraid they’ll scare off buyers? In truth, the price is what it is: specify it. When I couldn’t find a price, I moved on.
When will we see the AM7?
Thank you for the update!
You bet!
I was at NEAF 2024 Saturday! Cuiv, I encourage you to keep your eye on Celestron, new player to the game of electronically assisted astronomy. Their “Origin”, not released yet is based upon RASA design! I only got a glimpse of it and brief chat with reps. The potential outreach of these sorts of user friendly tools to create celestial enthusiasts is staggering, especially when small groups can simultaneously tap into the evolving image as subs accumulate, then download and save those objects explored, same day! What a user friendly concept. Can’t help but believe this exciting technology is destined to grow!
Leaving for NEAF in a few minutes!
Enjoy!