The epoxy should be mixed before adding it to the sand. Adding one part first will result in some of it being absorbed into your aggregate and not be able to react with the second part.
This Is a bit of misconception, it is recommended to mix part of the epoxy and mix it with the aggregates before adding the hardener. All research papers on this matter follow that particular method. Mixing the epoxy together and adding it to the aggregate after will lead to an improper mixture and greatly reduce your worktime. You have to consider that even after pouring it you still need to evacuate the air bubbles by using a vibrating table and as the epoxy hardens its more challenging.
@@axyzmachines4941 So are you saying mix like half the epoxy and hardener first then add it to the sand, and once thats mixed in well add in the other half of epoxy.. mix that in well, and then add in the other half of the hardener?
In order to make your granite more compact, you need to add very fine particles to your mix like silica fume witch is a 1000x smaller than a cement particle to fill all the small cavities.
Hi, Thanks for your video, Did you notice any distortion with the extrusion after the epoxy went off, I am just wondering about the effect of heat generated in curing.
People, to clear something first in terminology. Epoxy Granite is special composite group of materials who mainly consist mixture of Granite as natural igneous rock, quartz as fine sand and gravel bonded together with two part epoxy. Color may be added to make some better look to the mix. Sometimes mixtures doesn't consist Granite as key material, then it is called Epoxy Concrete, Epoxy Composites or if its made of just two materials Epoxy + the material used maybe Quartz or Gravel etc Epoxy Quartz, Epoxy Gravel corresponding to it. If you see the properties of Granite as materials, has excellent compressive load capability's (but not so good tensile compered to gray iron), has excellent vibrational dampening characteristics and lower temperature expansion. Granite is second hardest material in the world after diamond and doesn't "flow" because of extremely low stress trapped inside. Also about the temperature, If t rises two materials may deform the shape because of bimetal effect that must be taken in consideration. Also compacting should be done with large amplitude vibrations, because the bubbles of air are formed while mixing the materials and trapped in the mix, We surely want to remove them. Compacting it is not the proper way because also the bubbles are compressed, not removed from the composite material, weakening the composite material characteristics. I must say, many things should be taken in consideration for proper making of composite for cnc bases as Epoxy Granite. This is very ambitious and I am glad that people use their own time to experiment practically with this Mechanical engineering and Material Science. I would love to see some test of compressive load capabilities of this material, and Temperature expansion, Vibration dampening ect. Thank you
Were you not happy with the sand fill only? Does the epoxy+sand perform much better than just sand? I’m building a machine and am not sure which one to go with. Please let me know your experience!!
Daniel DeArco hi, the sand fill extrusions were good. But adding the epoxy will try to fill the smallest gaps between the sand and help a bit more with vibrations.
Друг, два вопроса! 1. к чему ты привязывался когда кронштейн шпинделя регулировал и 2. где купил такую насадку на шпиндель для удаления стружки, прозрачную?
For milling say M3 and M5 holes into a 1/2 inch thick aluminium plate. What type (flutes) and size (width/lenght) end mill did you use for milling the mounting holes in the 1/2 in thick base? BTW - both your CNC builds are awesome :)
@@radikult-custom I take it the 1/4" endmill you use for cutting through the plates. But what size to use for milling the holes for mounting linear blocks and spindle mounts etc?
You mix sand with resin and then add hardener ? You should first mix epoxy with hardener and then add it to sand so it is perfect mixed. Ps...cure time can be 24-48h but max strenght is after 7days up to month
pitu72ger well I mostly use Onsrud lmt end mills and I try to follow their recommended speeds and feeds. But I would recommend using Single Flute over 2-3 flutes end mills and try to cut on Climb
@@radikult-custom No I apologize, the sand\pebbles. Everybody has a different opinion on what the granite in epoxy granite is. Some people just use silica sand, some use playsand. Did you find ground up granite pieces? Did you use a type of sand? Did you mix quartz with silica independently? What is the sand\pebble mixture you used and where did you get it?
WaldvogelReview I end up using just regular “fine play sand” I found at a local hardware store and it’s cheap like $4-5 a bag. In reality you might want to mix supper small grains with bigger ones or gravel. So the end result is all cavities are packed ( I hope that makes sense)
@@radikult-custom Yes it does. Thats very helpful. Ive been interested in this for awhile. I always see conflicting arguments on ratios of grain\granule size mixtures. Youres seemed like a good mix so I might give it a try !
WaldvogelReview you could always use “silica” or other products that are even finer than sand. The issue with that is that either they are kinda hard to acquire or expensive
Hello friend greetings from Venezuela, I congratulate you for your beautiful and spectacular work, I ask you where you bought m probe of setting to 0? What can be seen in the video when your large CNC does the machining. Do you have a purchase link?
Beach&BoardFan I didn’t do any advance testing when it came to thermals. I know aluminum and “granite” don’t have the same thermal expansion. But I’m not worry about that since where I’m putting the machine should stay at a constant temperature and not fluctuating that much. Same thing with testing stiffness. I don’t have advance equipment to try to test that. But what I can say is that they are much heavier now. Also I have dampened vibrations and harmonic noises by a lot.
Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing this when its all done 👍 When you finish it will you do a cost video, I'm curious about the epoxy granite cost. At least here, 8020 rail is pretty expensive itself, but if you can run a smaller rail by filling it with epoxy granite and come out on top cost wise, that will be pretty cool.
Beach&BoardFan I was lucky enough, that on eBay there is a seller selling big pieces of 80/20 for $1 an inch. While on 80/20 the same cost $3-4 an inch. The thing about epoxy granite is that the piece of granite needs to be big enough to matter. If it’s 1x1 inch it’s might not do much
Have you also considered a sand oil mix inside ( or at least tried it ) where you fill it about 95-97% of the way since from i have been teached that is a pretty commen anti vibration method / mixture in the commercial cnc's ( ex. A dmg or hermle cnc) or extremely long compared to diameter drill out bar
@@Z-add it witch regard ? i just know ( after teching and personal experians ) that that combination inside the holow parts of the frame absorbes / reduses a lot of vibrations do to the natior of the sand and the oil is then to absorbtion / resistand to the sand that have been set into motion by the vibration ( bringing it to a stop faster ) though you gotta make sure that the sand is pure and starale plus that it is pure mashine oil ( since if you just use some random oil then the chance for bakterial grown is to high and you would have to throw it out and spend even more money and time then just getting the right one from the start ( aka do your self a faver and spend a little more in the begining and save money on the long run )
btw the oil have to somewhat / pretty thick but not like jell/cream thick but in somewhat if a mid between jell and milk thickness ( around as thick as the brown transparent oil in a car engien )
Very nice work on this new build. What is your aim for this build compared to your current machine? It seems your current machine is very capable, you are getting very nice finishes in aluminium even without lubrication or even air blast. What cutters and feeds/speeds are you using?
Jeremy Young my aim would be about the same. Maybe try to get faster rapids and if I can improve surface finish too The cutter I used are mostly from Onsrud Lmt. And I try to go with their recommended feeds and speeds.
You may already know this trick, You can take a jigsaw or reciprocating saw with no blade and hold them against whatever and they will vibrate out bublbes or help settle sand...
wayne creech that’s a good idea, if everything turn up good, I was going to use a table buffer and offset the pad to vibrate. Or use a orbital sander but I didn’t know how to attach that to the table or casting part
hed420 my main reason is to add extra weight to the frame and base, also it add a bit of dampening to vibrations or resonance. But if done in big cast can also add rigidity
@@radikult-custom i will properly fill my 4mm thk. 100mm steel square sections with sand. Sand will leak and damage to leadscrew if they go there. But in another aspect. if there are any changings need on machine or inside them in case. I can unfill them to do the works. Just sone opinions..
When its finished I'll give you my address. I just hope you are going to cover the freight charges. You are such a generous guy Mario. I really appreciate you making this for me and then just giving it to me for free. What a guy!
adamfilip my business is expanding and I needed a second CNC. At the same time I found the X and Y table for a really good price. So I decided to make a cnc out of it
Hi; I don't wanna be a jerk, but epoxy won't make a difference there. Torsion acts on the outer skin of the beam ; on the other hand bending forces , should they be high enough (not the case here), would not be ''impressed'' by epoxy. Epoxy works best in compression only. Sorry to convey such a message. Keep up the good work !
Mihai Dumitrescu hi, you are correct. Epoxy granite won’t do much (is any) inside the beans when it comes to torsion or bending. I did it mostly to add weight to the frame so the machine won’t be bouncing around when cutting at high speeds. But thanks for that information
Very cool 👌 I see you're trying to limit the vibrations and harmonics when machining so you can have a better-machined surface, nice 👍 Looking forward to the next video
I'm glad to see that you decided to go with epoxy granite instead of just sand with this build!
The epoxy should be mixed before adding it to the sand. Adding one part first will result in some of it being absorbed into your aggregate and not be able to react with the second part.
This Is a bit of misconception, it is recommended to mix part of the epoxy and mix it with the aggregates before adding the hardener. All research papers on this matter follow that particular method.
Mixing the epoxy together and adding it to the aggregate after will lead to an improper mixture and greatly reduce your worktime.
You have to consider that even after pouring it you still need to evacuate the air bubbles by using a vibrating table and as the epoxy hardens its more challenging.
@@axyzmachines4941 So are you saying mix like half the epoxy and hardener first then add it to the sand, and once thats mixed in well add in the other half of epoxy.. mix that in well, and then add in the other half of the hardener?
In order to make your granite more compact, you need to add very fine particles to your mix like silica fume witch is a 1000x smaller than a cement particle to fill all the small cavities.
I really enjoy these videos. Your doing some outstanding work, can’t wait to see it finished.
very intelligent adding the colorant to 1 part before mixing
Hi, Thanks for your video, Did you notice any distortion with the extrusion after the epoxy went off, I am just wondering about the effect of heat generated in curing.
people usually use slow-curing epoxy for things like this, which gives off much less heat and causes less warping.
This is really great to see. I like your solutions for the build. I cant wait to see how the machine works. Thanks for posting!
Did you measure the difference of stiffness with and without the epoxy granite?
really love the dust boot, may i ask where you got it?
I actually made it myself
People, to clear something first in terminology. Epoxy Granite is special composite group of materials who mainly consist mixture of Granite as natural igneous rock, quartz as fine sand and gravel bonded together with two part epoxy. Color may be added to make some better look to the mix. Sometimes mixtures doesn't consist Granite as key material, then it is called Epoxy Concrete, Epoxy Composites or if its made of just two materials Epoxy + the material used maybe Quartz or Gravel etc Epoxy Quartz, Epoxy Gravel corresponding to it. If you see the properties of Granite as materials, has excellent compressive load capability's (but not so good tensile compered to gray iron), has excellent vibrational dampening characteristics and lower temperature expansion. Granite is second hardest material in the world after diamond and doesn't "flow" because of extremely low stress trapped inside. Also about the temperature, If t rises two materials may deform the shape because of bimetal effect that must be taken in consideration. Also compacting should be done with large amplitude vibrations, because the bubbles of air are formed while mixing the materials and trapped in the mix, We surely want to remove them. Compacting it is not the proper way because also the bubbles are compressed, not removed from the composite material, weakening the composite material characteristics. I must say, many things should be taken in consideration for proper making of composite for cnc bases as Epoxy Granite. This is very ambitious and I am glad that people use their own time to experiment practically with this Mechanical engineering and Material Science. I would love to see some test of compressive load capabilities of this material, and Temperature expansion, Vibration dampening ect. Thank you
you can use a dental plaster vibrator to compact the product does an excellent job.
Were you not happy with the sand fill only? Does the epoxy+sand perform much better than just sand? I’m building a machine and am not sure which one to go with. Please let me know your experience!!
Daniel DeArco hi, the sand fill extrusions were good. But adding the epoxy will try to fill the smallest gaps between the sand and help a bit more with vibrations.
Друг, два вопроса! 1. к чему ты привязывался когда кронштейн шпинделя регулировал и 2. где купил такую насадку на шпиндель для удаления стружки, прозрачную?
Do you mean the spindle holder? You can find similar ones on eBay Amazon and other sites
The dust shoe, I made it out of clear cast acrylic
For milling say M3 and M5 holes into a 1/2 inch thick aluminium plate. What type (flutes) and size (width/lenght) end mill did you use for milling the mounting holes in the 1/2 in thick base?
BTW - both your CNC builds are awesome :)
@@MP-mu1kw I think I used a O-Flute 1/4 size 3/4 length from Onsrud.
@@radikult-custom I take it the 1/4" endmill you use for cutting through the plates. But what size to use for milling the holes for mounting linear blocks and spindle mounts etc?
You mix sand with resin and then add hardener ? You should first mix epoxy with hardener and then add it to sand so it is perfect mixed.
Ps...cure time can be 24-48h but max strenght is after 7days up to month
I agree !
love the filled extrusions.. nice
Looking good, im exciting for next part. Keep up the good work. Thumbs up
Where and what size are those? Thank you in advance
Nice stuff. Interesting you seemed to cut the 6061 without lubricant just fine with no chip welding. Any special advice on that?
pitu72ger well I mostly use Onsrud lmt end mills and I try to follow their recommended speeds and feeds.
But I would recommend using Single Flute over 2-3 flutes end mills and try to cut on Climb
@@radikult-custom thx for the reply!
I suggest doing in short 4" sections then packing down.
What did you use for the sand\mix in the epoxy granite?
WaldvogelReview you mean the paint mixer? The metal thing attached to the drill?
@@radikult-custom No I apologize, the sand\pebbles. Everybody has a different opinion on what the granite in epoxy granite is. Some people just use silica sand, some use playsand. Did you find ground up granite pieces? Did you use a type of sand? Did you mix quartz with silica independently? What is the sand\pebble mixture you used and where did you get it?
WaldvogelReview I end up using just regular “fine play sand” I found at a local hardware store and it’s cheap like $4-5 a bag. In reality you might want to mix supper small grains with bigger ones or gravel.
So the end result is all cavities are packed ( I hope that makes sense)
@@radikult-custom Yes it does. Thats very helpful. Ive been interested in this for awhile. I always see conflicting arguments on ratios of grain\granule size mixtures. Youres seemed like a good mix so I might give it a try !
WaldvogelReview you could always use “silica” or other products that are even finer than sand. The issue with that is that either they are kinda hard to acquire or expensive
Hello friend greetings from Venezuela, I congratulate you for your beautiful and spectacular work, I ask you where you bought m probe of setting to 0? What can be seen in the video when your large CNC does the machining. Do you have a purchase link?
Jose Pastor Jimenez the probe is from drewtronics.org/ or you can find them on eBay too
That is going to be one awesome machine! Im subscribing to follow along.
If you don't mind me asking, from what country do you hail?
I live in Georgia USA.
What kind of info did you get from your test pieces, are the epoxy granite and aluminum thermally compatible? Are they much stiffer?
Beach&BoardFan I didn’t do any advance testing when it came to thermals. I know aluminum and “granite” don’t have the same thermal expansion. But I’m not worry about that since where I’m putting the machine should stay at a constant temperature and not fluctuating that much.
Same thing with testing stiffness. I don’t have advance equipment to try to test that. But what I can say is that they are much heavier now. Also I have dampened vibrations and harmonic noises by a lot.
Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing this when its all done 👍 When you finish it will you do a cost video, I'm curious about the epoxy granite cost. At least here, 8020 rail is pretty expensive itself, but if you can run a smaller rail by filling it with epoxy granite and come out on top cost wise, that will be pretty cool.
Beach&BoardFan I was lucky enough, that on eBay there is a seller selling big pieces of 80/20 for $1 an inch. While on 80/20 the same cost $3-4 an inch.
The thing about epoxy granite is that the piece of granite needs to be big enough to matter. If it’s 1x1 inch it’s might not do much
I forgot to mention, the eBay seller is 1 hr away from me, so I was able to select the pieces and didn’t have to pay the shipping
Have you also considered a sand oil mix inside ( or at least tried it ) where you fill it about 95-97% of the way since from i have been teached that is a pretty commen anti vibration method / mixture in the commercial cnc's ( ex. A dmg or hermle cnc) or extremely long compared to diameter drill out bar
Can you give more details of the process you're mentioning
@@Z-add it witch regard ?
i just know ( after teching and personal experians ) that that combination inside the holow parts of the frame absorbes / reduses a lot of vibrations do to the natior of the sand and the oil is then to absorbtion / resistand to the sand that have been set into motion by the vibration ( bringing it to a stop faster )
though you gotta make sure that the sand is pure and starale
plus that it is pure mashine oil ( since if you just use some random oil then the chance for bakterial grown is to high and you would have to throw it out and spend even more money and time then just getting the right one from the start ( aka do your self a faver and spend a little more in the begining and save money on the long run )
btw the oil have to somewhat / pretty thick but not like jell/cream thick but in somewhat if a mid between jell and milk thickness ( around as thick as the brown transparent oil in a car engien )
Very nice work on this new build. What is your aim for this build compared to your current machine? It seems your current machine is very capable, you are getting very nice finishes in aluminium even without lubrication or even air blast. What cutters and feeds/speeds are you using?
Jeremy Young my aim would be about the same. Maybe try to get faster rapids and if I can improve surface finish too
The cutter I used are mostly from Onsrud Lmt. And I try to go with their recommended feeds and speeds.
Nice work so far.
Thank you.
You may already know this trick, You can take a jigsaw or reciprocating saw with no blade and hold them against whatever and they will vibrate out bublbes or help settle sand...
wayne creech that’s a good idea, if everything turn up good, I was going to use a table buffer and offset the pad to vibrate. Or use a orbital sander but I didn’t know how to attach that to the table or casting part
very good work
dude that is awesome! really cool!
great job!
What's the purpose of the epoxy / sand mixture ?
hed420 my main reason is to add extra weight to the frame and base, also it add a bit of dampening to vibrations or resonance.
But if done in big cast can also add rigidity
Is it a big different than that you did them using sand instead?
raychar c if you going to fill extrusions with sand only instead of epoxy and sand there shouldn’t be that much difference between the two.
@@radikult-custom i will properly fill my 4mm thk. 100mm steel square sections with sand. Sand will leak and damage to leadscrew if they go there. But in another aspect. if there are any changings need on machine or inside them in case. I can unfill them to do the works. Just sone opinions..
It's mostly to add dampening.
When its finished I'll give you my address. I just hope you are going to cover the freight charges. You are such a generous guy Mario. I really appreciate you making this for me and then just giving it to me for free. What a guy!
i wish i could buy that kind of alu plate.
i live next to the graeatest aluminium factory of latin america. impossibru.
curious why you are making this machine if you already have a sweet CNC machine?
adamfilip my business is expanding and I needed a second CNC. At the same time I found the X and Y table for a really good price. So I decided to make a cnc out of it
Какой-то акцент прослеживается.
Start selling those dust boots my dude.
Why not regular reinforced concrete cement instead of epoxy .. would be much cheaper
Avinash Narode epoxy granite has the ability to absorb vibrations
Ohh yes.. thanks for the reply
Hi; I don't wanna be a jerk, but epoxy won't make a difference there. Torsion acts on the outer skin of the beam ; on the other hand bending forces , should they be high enough (not the case here), would not be ''impressed'' by epoxy. Epoxy works best in compression only. Sorry to convey such a message. Keep up the good work !
Mihai Dumitrescu hi, you are correct. Epoxy granite won’t do much (is any) inside the beans when it comes to torsion or bending.
I did it mostly to add weight to the frame so the machine won’t be bouncing around when cutting at high speeds.
But thanks for that information
Very cool 👌 I see you're trying to limit the vibrations and harmonics when machining so you can have a better-machined surface, nice 👍 Looking forward to the next video