Latter-day Saints also sometimes use 2 Thessalonians 2 as a proof text of a Great Apostasy ("that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first). I explained our view of that verse here: ruclips.net/video/NxTrg9EhcgQ/видео.html And if you want a systematic overview explaining why we don't believe in the Great Apostasy - check out this video: ruclips.net/video/ERYIrVnDryg/видео.html If you're on a ROLL and want even MORE videos on apostasy - check out this video exploring the difference between Joseph Smith's version of the Wheat & Tares parable, and Jesus' version given in Matthew 13: ruclips.net/video/J1alNj5xNcY/видео.html
Wrong. St. Paul encouraged celibacy (1 Corinthians 7:7-9,25-27,38 All churches forbid marriage to a certain extent. Do you know of churches that would marry a toddler to an adult? Also you abstain from meats when you fast which Jesus approved of (Matthew 6:16-18, 17:21)
I was once in Mormonism for many years, and then fell away, not sure what to believe. Years later, I had a health incident that caused me to seek the Lord, get a KJV Bible, and started to read, and watch good Christian pastors online. I shortly after found a great Bible preaching / teaching church and never looked back. It is amazing to learn and grow in the true word of God, and knowing what I do regarding Mormonism, I can say with 100% truth that the LDS church and their doctrines are demon lead, that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and honestly think he was deceived by possibly Satan himself, as Joseph stated many times how he was visited by an angel of light. Who can do that? Well, Satan can according to scripture! I agree, many Mormon leaders have a seared mind with the untruth that has been passed down for generations from Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdry. Many forget, Cowdry ran the church as one of the longest sitting proclaimed prophets, for 30 years I believe, and even taught the "God-Adam" doctrine and the "Blood Atonement" doctrine. Of course the Mormon leadership today tries to refute many things, as they have a long history of throwing past prophets of the church under the bus, declaring them essentially as heretics and how it was never the true teachings of the Mormon church, but we know that is not true, seeing as we have original manuscripts from Oliver Cowdry preaching these doctrines at general conference and leading many to hell sadly. I pray all the time for anyone caught up in Mormonism, because they are so caught up with the lies and deceptions and believe they can become "gods" themselves, one day if they live righteously and do good works. That is what Joseph Smith taught, the plurality of Gods and claimed that the God of the Bible, was once a man, who lived on an Earth like ours, and have to prove his worthiness to become exalted into Godhood, and then became our God. Joseph Smith taught that this is a cycle that has been going on for all time. What is interesting to note, who else wanted to be as God, to rule as God? That would be Lucifer, and was the reason he was cast out of heaven, and yet, we see Satan's doctrine being taught in the Mormon church, but they are so blind to see the connection. Pray for them, that their eyes might be opened to the truth.
As I read through 1 Timothy 4:2-3 I believe this is not only on par with what Mormonism teaches with their words of wisdom, but also Roman Catholicism, for they forbid their appointed priests that they cannot marry. We know that Roman Catholicism embraced many of the pagan traditions and combined them together, from when Constantine first took power and combined Christianity with paganism and thus, created the Roman Catholic Empire (Church). The Roman Empire never died, it simply evolved, which is what Roman Catholicism is. Mormonism is (in my opinion) Satan's most cunning deception in which he walks the line of truth in order to subvert the truth and spin in his lies and deceptions. Where does the Mormon doctrine that we can become "gods" ourselves one day come from? Satan, who was cast out of heaven for wanting that very same thing. What is mind boggling, is that even when we show these truths, present factual statements from their own Mormon prophets of what was said, what they taught, many that are heavily indoctrinated in Mormonism would rather stick their head in the sand, on disbelief of these truths and facts, for that would require them to admit they were wrong and fooled for all these many years. I can only keep encouraging LDS members to seek all truth, research and verify what they are being told for themselves instead of blindly following self proclaimed prophets. They have all told their members, "we can never lead you astray" yet we have a long history of seeing Mormon prophets throwing past Mormon prophets under the bus, declaring their teachings as heretics or only as "personal opinion only and not true doctrine".
I would love to also know how you would defend against their use of Amos 8:11:12 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3. In conversations, I have found a good defense of one Biblical proof is “lost” if they can pull out another one and you aren’t ready with another good defense. I had a conversation about Paul’s statement being yet future, but that didn’t go very far before we changed the subject. They started bouncing around using the references at the bottom of their Bible, and we hit a dead end on that point. I believe we got on that because the Thessalonians “proof” was in the pamphlet they were using. I had never noticed the word “some” in Timothy, so thank you! I do talk to missionaries from time to time, and this is a fundamental event, a brick in the bottom row, so to speak. For this reason, I think it’s a topic worth spending time on during a conversation, but I don’t feel ready or confident on how to answer the other verses they could bring up. Being an ex-Mormon who no longer believes the great apostasy has already happened, it would be nice to be able to further articulate why even if just for myself.
We made a video on 2 Thess. 2:3 - ruclips.net/video/NxTrg9EhcgQ/видео.html Amos 8:11-12 - seems to be warning about widespread rebellion in OT era...pushing that to post-advent doesn't align with the context of Amos. Also - we're told that God always has a remnant! Even though there was widespread wickedness in Israel, God kept a faithful remnant (cf. Rom. 11:1-5). Will do a video on Amos 8 soon!
1 They in the Lord that firmly trust shall be like Zion hill, Which at no time can be removed, but standeth ever still. 2 As round about Jerusalem the mountains stand alway, The Lord his folk doth compass so, from henceforth and for aye. Psalm 125:1-2
I had never even heard of the great apostasy until moving to Utah -- And even now when I've had some LDS friends try to explain it to me it just doesn't make sense... Also just a random question, can you be a latter-day saint and not believe in the great apostasy??
My “outsider’s” guess is no, at least not a Latter-day Saint in good standing, because one of the questions for a temple recommend it “Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?” There can’t be a restoration without an apostasy. Evangelicals are constantly called out for being anti-mormon, and while I don’t necessarily agree with all the tactics used by evangelicals and (especially) fundamentalists, it’s ironic that the whole foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the premise that the rest of us are all a part of the Great Apostasy. At least that’s the way I understand it.
Mormons have in the recent decades been trying to back peddle the harshness of Joseph smith’s words and condemnation of Christianity supposedly conveyed to him in his “first vision” and kind of just say hey you believe in Jesus we do too we are all alone big family even those belonging to Mormonism, early Mormonism especially has attacked and been critical of the rest of Christendom from its inception
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m Hey K, thanks for the info. I try to be careful with my words and I did say it was my outsider’s guess and that it was the way I understood it. I figured if I was wrong somebody would correct me, and that it might well be you. 😉 So let me think through this. It seems to me that to believe in the Restoration of the gospel, it means at the very least that you believe the keys to the Priesthood once existed, were taken away in the Great Apostasy, and were restored to Joseph Smith, which means that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Sains is the only true church on earth, correct? So you’re saying that you can doubt that but, through discussing your doubts with your bishop, you could still get a temple recommend? What if you just plain didn’t believe it? It seems to me that’s what Marisa’s question was. But you said something that caught my curiosity more than anything else in these comments. You said that the Great apostasy is hard to understand. And yes, you are correct that evangelicals have several issues that are hard to understand-not hard to believe, in my opinion, but definitely hard to understand. For example, it’s hard to understand how the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet the Bible says there is but one God; but I don’t find it hard to believe because I believe in a great God. But it surprised me to hear you say that the Great apostasy is hard to understand. I don’t find it hard to understand (so maybe I misunderstand it?), just hard to believe. What do you find hard to understand about it?
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m Sorry if I’m a little dense, but I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking about the reformation being easy for me to believe. Could you elaborate? Are you asking why I believe there was a need for the Reformation? Or why I believe many of the doctrines that came out of the Reformation? Both of those questions and/or something else?
The main plain and precious truth that was destroyed by emperor Diocletian's edict in 303 AD was that we are intellegent spirits housed in physical bodies of flesh, bones and blood, and that we lived as spirit sons and daughters of God before we were born. The New Testament teaches that our bodies of flesh and bones. Flesh and blood means mortal. Mortals are kept alive by blood, whereas immortals are kept alive by spirit, thys spiritual bodies, but not spirits, as in Christ said handle me and see for a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see me have. So, Considering our bodies of flesh and bones, will be resurrected and immortal, and that we are intelligent spirits, why would we want or need a body? What can we do with a body that we cannot do as a spirit only? The answer to these questions shows why the truth that our spirits lived with God before we were born is critical to understandind the Bible
True, that verse alone does not prove a "Great Apostasy". Jesus gave authority to His apostles to run His church after he left. (Matthew 10:1, Matthew 16:19, John 15:15-16, Acts 10:39-42) After Judas died the remaining 11 chose another to fill the 12th spot. (Acts 1:21-26) The apostles had power and authority to continue to build the church. (Acts 4:33, Acts 8:14-17) The apostles had power to receive revelations and visions. (Acts 10:9-16, Revelation of John) What did the structure of the Church look like after Jesus was gone? (1 Corinthians 12:28-30) When apostles died they chose others to replace them: Paul, Barnabas, and others not specifically mentioned in the text. Eventually the apostles all disappeared. They died, were martyred or were exiled and not replaced. Who was the authority passed to? Where are the Apostles and prophets (1 Cor. 12:28) in the Christian churches today? Who has the power to receive knowledge for clarification of confusing scriptural passages? Christianity continued but the authority from God was gone. The ”Mormons” are not the only ones who ask these questions. This is what led to the reformation and Protestantism. The Catholics claim the authority was passed down in succession and now resides in the Pope. Logically, If that is true, then the Catholics are the standard and all other Christian churches are apostate (the “falling away” 2 Thes. 2:3). If, however, the Catholic claim is not true, then logically all other Christian churches, despite their’ good intentions, are still apostate and the Mormon claim has credibility. As for the abstaining from "Alcohol and Coffee" - these can hardly be considered "foods". Think of all the evil that often comes with intoxication from alcohol.
First of all, what is Faith. If some are going to fall away from something, we should know the meaning of that something. Faith means “To hear God’s voice” in some manner. In other words, there is a huge difference between Faith and Believe. If one has Faith, then they are hearing from the spirit of God, and they are being obedient to what they hear in its full form. Amos 8:11 tells us that there will come a time when people will not hear the word of God, or hear His voice. This has been going on for the last 2000 years, as the lack of hearing has created all of the denominations within the earth. Each denomination reads the same Bible yet they believe different things. This means that they are not getting their information from the spirit, they are getting it from their carnal mind, which is false intel. 1 John 2:27 says “But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things.” This means that we should be understanding the scriptures because the spirit will teach us the meaning, not another man (pastor). This is the true church of Christ, those who hear and obey God through Jesus, not a man made denomination. All church denominations are false churches, all of them, not just the LDS. Jesus is currently teaching a select group of people on the earth the truth of the scriptures, yet the denominations will not hear them, they call these people heretics. For even Jesus says that His people Hear His Voice. Most do not believe that God speaks to His created, because they themselves do not hear, therefore they deny that Faith means to Hear God. But this is ok, for God has shown me that He will remove the church denominations so that all can hear His voice, and when this happens all will come to know the truth. Blessings PS: BTW, the word “believe” toward the end of verse 3 should actually be translated to “Faith.” This is true in many places within scripture.
Can you make a video concerning Deuteronomy 4:2? Mormons will use this verse to suggest the New Testament is a 'new' book. They will also use Revelation 22 to conclude John was only referring to his epistle and not the New Testament in general.
Christians in the early reformation period knew there was an apostacy. That is why the reformation occurred . You have no idea why Protestantism happened.
When your channel is called “God loves Mormons” but you start off the episode with “one of the main differences between Mormons and Christians…” Let me ask you a question since you’re gatekeeping christianity: do true Christians believe the creation period took place in six literal days or is it figurative for periods of creation? Do Christians believe God has already chosen who will be saved and who will be damned? Do Christians believe in Sola Scriptura, and if they do does that mean everyone can interpret it accurately? If so then why are there so many different faiths which understand the Bible differently and how do you know your interpretation of a perfect work is actually perfect understanding?
You might consider watching GLM’s video, “Are All Denominations Divided” In short, of course people are going to have differences in understanding over various passages. But there are certain core doctrines which unite Christians together and are clearly communicated in Scripture. To compromise on those core doctrines would be an affront to God.
@@BNichols021 so are “Christians” United in the belief of Sola Scriptura? Seems like a pretty prominent point that can lead to many differing beliefs You didn’t really answer any of the questions
@kaylunrice Why is it that the LDS church's interpretation of scripture is correct but other religions are not? Why does the LDS church have the TRUE church but other religions don't? Why does Joseph Smith have authority but the Pope or other religious leaders do not have it?
Also to answer your questions. The list of things you asked are not salvation issues. Regardless of what each church believes on those topics it does not add or take away from what all Christian churches believe. Core beliefs like who God is (one God), Who Christ is (1 person of God), not one of many God's that have existed which is what the LDS teach. Not even the book of Mormon teaches many God's (because it was most likely a copy of the Bible the BoM teaches a Trinity teaching). Many God's is a teaching that came later in Joseph Smith's life. He changed his belief on God(s) over time.
hahaha the very fact that you are not Greek or Roman Catholic is because reformers of Christianity admitted that there was a falling away. Best study up.
How is this even an argument against the Latter Day Saints? Amos 3:7 God will reveal his secrets to his prophets, If all the apostles were killed off except John who was translated. The Catholic church would be the true church IF the priesthood had been passed to them. However it would also show that they wouldn't baptize babies. The authority to baptize which John the Baptist had since Christ walked forty miles to be baptized by him. If the Priesthood authority is not needed, why even do it? And if it was ok to baptized babies, why wouldn't Christ of been baptized then? Also if Christ is Perfect why did he even need baptizm? Another thought, 1 corinthians 15 Paul speaks that if Christ didn't atone for our sins and was resurrected, why do baptism for the dead? meaning, not only during Christ time were they practicing baptism, they were also doing baptism for the dead. How many church's since the fall of the apostles has been practicing baptisms for the dead? Also something to think about, in the last days two Prophets will be killed in the holy land, of what faith? Christians are so broad that if Amos 3:7 is in fact true (all christians seem to think one verse will prove the LDS church false), however the Power of the Priesthood is real and the LDS church is only going to get stronger as the days of darkness gets darker.
There lies at the heart of your argument one major problem-the apostles didn’t have the Aaronic(Levitical) or Melchizedek priesthoods. Amos 3:7 is in the context of the prophets of the Old Testament, which the Bible says were until John the Baptist (Luke 16:16). Why do you think the veil in the temple was torn in two? (Matthew 27:51) You have every right just as we do to ask the Catholic Church where their priesthood comes from considering they are not blood descendants of Aaron, and they definitely don’t claim to have the Melchizedek priesthood. So, what is their priesthood exactly? But I’m sure you’re aware that many Christians do not believe in or support infant baptism. I would actually ask the same question about Jesus’s baptism. If water baptism is for the cleansing of sins, why did the sinless do it? My point being that water baptism isn’t what the LDS church claims it is. Remember that John the Baptist wanted to be baptized by Jesus, thinking himself unworthy to baptize Jesus (Mathew 3:14), unworthy to even loosen Jesus’s sandals (John 1:27). John the Baptist was the “voice crying in the wilderness” calling people to repentance (Isaiah 40:3). By baptizing Jesus, he was declaring to everyone publicly that this is the one we were waiting for. Another important thing to remember is the purpose of the priests. They were the ones who presented the animal sacrifices to God to cover sins. John the Baptist was a son of parents whom were both descendants of Aaron (Luke 1:5). So John the Baptist was actually qualified to be a priest, himself being a blood descendant of Aaron. In John 1:29, John the Baptist refers to Jesus as “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.” How fitting is it then that he would be the one to present the “Lamb of God,” the ultimate sacrifice. Jesus said His baptism was “to fulfill all righteousness,” alluding to the righteousness He provides for all those who come to Him, that we might be made the righteousness of God. You are correct in the point Paul is asking. But you’re reading into and assuming things about the baptism for the dead part. Paul separates himself from those doing it by saying THEY, not WE. There is no evidence in the New Testament of vicarious water baptism. Paul’s primary concern is defending the resurrection and pointing out their inconsistency. He’s not endorsing this with his rhetorical question. This is also the only mention of it in the entire Bible. We don’t know why this group Paul was referring to was doing this, how many there were, or if it even means vicarious water baptism. It could just mean baptizing new converts to replace the ones being killed at that time. But one thing is for certain, Paul was absolutely not endorsing or encouraging this, simply using it to point out the inconsistency. This is not a command to do so. There is also no evidence of the early church practicing vicarious work for the dead as the LDS church does. I think it is irrelevant what group the two witnesses (prophets) will be a part of. I’m guessing by “faith” you mean Catholic, Methodist, baptist, etc. Some Christians theorize that the two witnesses will actually be Moses and Elijah, so I don’t see any relevance to your question. Your statement of “all Christians seem to think one verse will prove the LDS church false” is… false. We actually reference many verses and passages, as well as look at and point to the history of Joseph Smith and the LDS church. Just watch more of GLM’s videos and you’ll see we use a LOT more than just one verse. The power of the priesthood is, indeed real, but only descendants of Aaron could hold the Aaronic priesthood, and only Jesus has the Melchizedek priesthood. This video isn’t meant to be a be-all and end-all that proves Mormonism wrong. There are plenty of other videos and channels that discuss Mormonism. Mormonism Research Ministry (mrm.org) is another invaluable resource that really gets into the details of things that a single 4 minute video cannot possibly cover.
I find it interesting that many protestants and evangelicals feel the need to attack and denounce the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It seems to be an obsession. Interesting that you bring soo much attention to our faith.
From its inception, Mormonism claimed that the LDS Church was the only true church, and that it alone held the priesthood necessary to inherit all that God has to offer us. So……
Some departed from the faith in Galatia, accepting a false gospel by adding a ceremony of works to their understanding of what makes a person right before God. Paul called them to repent from it and hold to the truth (See Galatians). Some have departed from the faith since the beginning, but never all. Friend, why would you say the “Mormons indisputably got it right” when they understand “some” to be “all”? Not only is that a rejection of a plain reading of the text, but wouldn’t you at least agree it’s disputable to distort the text like that?
Latter-day Saints also sometimes use 2 Thessalonians 2 as a proof text of a Great Apostasy ("that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first). I explained our view of that verse here: ruclips.net/video/NxTrg9EhcgQ/видео.html
And if you want a systematic overview explaining why we don't believe in the Great Apostasy - check out this video: ruclips.net/video/ERYIrVnDryg/видео.html
If you're on a ROLL and want even MORE videos on apostasy - check out this video exploring the difference between Joseph Smith's version of the Wheat & Tares parable, and Jesus' version given in Matthew 13: ruclips.net/video/J1alNj5xNcY/видео.html
0:50 "liars who forbid marriage, and require abstinence from foods"
The RCC: 😬👀
Wrong. St. Paul encouraged celibacy (1 Corinthians 7:7-9,25-27,38
All churches forbid marriage to a certain extent. Do you know of churches that would marry a toddler to an adult?
Also you abstain from meats when you fast which Jesus approved of (Matthew 6:16-18, 17:21)
Right fasting is something different than forbidden drinking Hot tea of coffee
I was once in Mormonism for many years, and then fell away, not sure what to believe. Years later, I had a health incident that caused me to seek the Lord, get a KJV Bible, and started to read, and watch good Christian pastors online. I shortly after found a great Bible preaching / teaching church and never looked back.
It is amazing to learn and grow in the true word of God, and knowing what I do regarding Mormonism, I can say with 100% truth that the LDS church and their doctrines are demon lead, that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and honestly think he was deceived by possibly Satan himself, as Joseph stated many times how he was visited by an angel of light. Who can do that? Well, Satan can according to scripture!
I agree, many Mormon leaders have a seared mind with the untruth that has been passed down for generations from Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdry. Many forget, Cowdry ran the church as one of the longest sitting proclaimed prophets, for 30 years I believe, and even taught the "God-Adam" doctrine and the "Blood Atonement" doctrine.
Of course the Mormon leadership today tries to refute many things, as they have a long history of throwing past prophets of the church under the bus, declaring them essentially as heretics and how it was never the true teachings of the Mormon church, but we know that is not true, seeing as we have original manuscripts from Oliver Cowdry preaching these doctrines at general conference and leading many to hell sadly.
I pray all the time for anyone caught up in Mormonism, because they are so caught up with the lies and deceptions and believe they can become "gods" themselves, one day if they live righteously and do good works. That is what Joseph Smith taught, the plurality of Gods and claimed that the God of the Bible, was once a man, who lived on an Earth like ours, and have to prove his worthiness to become exalted into Godhood, and then became our God.
Joseph Smith taught that this is a cycle that has been going on for all time. What is interesting to note, who else wanted to be as God, to rule as God? That would be Lucifer, and was the reason he was cast out of heaven, and yet, we see Satan's doctrine being taught in the Mormon church, but they are so blind to see the connection.
Pray for them, that their eyes might be opened to the truth.
Well said but I thought it was Brigham Young who taught the Adam God theory. Maybe it was both of them.
Excellent teaching as always! Thank-you!
As I read through 1 Timothy 4:2-3 I believe this is not only on par with what Mormonism teaches with their words of wisdom, but also Roman Catholicism, for they forbid their appointed priests that they cannot marry.
We know that Roman Catholicism embraced many of the pagan traditions and combined them together, from when Constantine first took power and combined Christianity with paganism and thus, created the Roman Catholic Empire (Church).
The Roman Empire never died, it simply evolved, which is what Roman Catholicism is.
Mormonism is (in my opinion) Satan's most cunning deception in which he walks the line of truth in order to subvert the truth and spin in his lies and deceptions. Where does the Mormon doctrine that we can become "gods" ourselves one day come from? Satan, who was cast out of heaven for wanting that very same thing.
What is mind boggling, is that even when we show these truths, present factual statements from their own Mormon prophets of what was said, what they taught, many that are heavily indoctrinated in Mormonism would rather stick their head in the sand, on disbelief of these truths and facts, for that would require them to admit they were wrong and fooled for all these many years.
I can only keep encouraging LDS members to seek all truth, research and verify what they are being told for themselves instead of blindly following self proclaimed prophets. They have all told their members, "we can never lead you astray" yet we have a long history of seeing Mormon prophets throwing past Mormon prophets under the bus, declaring their teachings as heretics or only as "personal opinion only and not true doctrine".
I would love to also know how you would defend against their use of Amos 8:11:12 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3. In conversations, I have found a good defense of one Biblical proof is “lost” if they can pull out another one and you aren’t ready with another good defense. I had a conversation about Paul’s statement being yet future, but that didn’t go very far before we changed the subject. They started bouncing around using the references at the bottom of their Bible, and we hit a dead end on that point. I believe we got on that because the Thessalonians “proof” was in the pamphlet they were using. I had never noticed the word “some” in Timothy, so thank you! I do talk to missionaries from time to time, and this is a fundamental event, a brick in the bottom row, so to speak. For this reason, I think it’s a topic worth spending time on during a conversation, but I don’t feel ready or confident on how to answer the other verses they could bring up. Being an ex-Mormon who no longer believes the great apostasy has already happened, it would be nice to be able to further articulate why even if just for myself.
We made a video on 2 Thess. 2:3 - ruclips.net/video/NxTrg9EhcgQ/видео.html
Amos 8:11-12 - seems to be warning about widespread rebellion in OT era...pushing that to post-advent doesn't align with the context of Amos. Also - we're told that God always has a remnant! Even though there was widespread wickedness in Israel, God kept a faithful remnant (cf. Rom. 11:1-5).
Will do a video on Amos 8 soon!
@@GLM Super! Thanks so much!
1 They in the Lord that firmly trust
shall be like Zion hill,
Which at no time can be removed,
but standeth ever still.
2 As round about Jerusalem
the mountains stand alway,
The Lord his folk doth compass so,
from henceforth and for aye.
Psalm 125:1-2
The apostasy in 1 Timothy 4 is talking about the time of the Anti-Christ. It has not happened yet. It is not talking about the early church.
I had never even heard of the great apostasy until moving to Utah -- And even now when I've had some LDS friends try to explain it to me it just doesn't make sense...
Also just a random question, can you be a latter-day saint and not believe in the great apostasy??
My “outsider’s” guess is no, at least not a Latter-day Saint in good standing, because one of the questions for a temple recommend it “Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?” There can’t be a restoration without an apostasy.
Evangelicals are constantly called out for being anti-mormon, and while I don’t necessarily agree with all the tactics used by evangelicals and (especially) fundamentalists, it’s ironic that the whole foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the premise that the rest of us are all a part of the Great Apostasy. At least that’s the way I understand it.
The great apostasy is one of the most central core doctrines of Mormonism, there is no need for a “restoration” if there was no “Great apostasy”
Mormons have in the recent decades been trying to back peddle the harshness of Joseph smith’s words and condemnation of Christianity supposedly conveyed to him in his “first vision” and kind of just say hey you believe in Jesus we do too we are all alone big family even those belonging to Mormonism, early Mormonism especially has attacked and been critical of the rest of Christendom from its inception
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m Hey K, thanks for the info. I try to be careful with my words and I did say it was my outsider’s guess and that it was the way I understood it. I figured if I was wrong somebody would correct me, and that it might well be you. 😉 So let me think through this. It seems to me that to believe in the Restoration of the gospel, it means at the very least that you believe the keys to the Priesthood once existed, were taken away in the Great Apostasy, and were restored to Joseph Smith, which means that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Sains is the only true church on earth, correct? So you’re saying that you can doubt that but, through discussing your doubts with your bishop, you could still get a temple recommend? What if you just plain didn’t believe it? It seems to me that’s what Marisa’s question was.
But you said something that caught my curiosity more than anything else in these comments. You said that the Great apostasy is hard to understand. And yes, you are correct that evangelicals have several issues that are hard to understand-not hard to believe, in my opinion, but definitely hard to understand. For example, it’s hard to understand how the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet the Bible says there is but one God; but I don’t find it hard to believe because I believe in a great God. But it surprised me to hear you say that the Great apostasy is hard to understand. I don’t find it hard to understand (so maybe I misunderstand it?), just hard to believe. What do you find hard to understand about it?
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m Sorry if I’m a little dense, but I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking about the reformation being easy for me to believe. Could you elaborate? Are you asking why I believe there was a need for the Reformation? Or why I believe many of the doctrines that came out of the Reformation? Both of those questions and/or something else?
The main plain and precious truth that was destroyed by emperor Diocletian's edict in 303 AD was that we are intellegent spirits housed in physical bodies of flesh, bones and blood, and that we lived as spirit sons and daughters of God before we were born.
The New Testament teaches that our bodies of flesh and bones. Flesh and blood means mortal. Mortals are kept alive by blood, whereas immortals are kept alive by spirit, thys spiritual bodies, but not spirits, as in Christ said handle me and see for a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see me have.
So,
Considering our bodies of flesh and bones, will be resurrected and immortal, and that we are intelligent spirits, why would we want or need a body? What can we do with a body that we cannot do as a spirit only?
The answer to these questions shows why the truth that our spirits lived with God before we were born is critical to understandind the Bible
True, that verse alone does not prove a "Great Apostasy".
Jesus gave authority to His apostles to run His church after he left. (Matthew 10:1, Matthew 16:19, John 15:15-16, Acts 10:39-42)
After Judas died the remaining 11 chose another to fill the 12th spot. (Acts 1:21-26)
The apostles had power and authority to continue to build the church. (Acts 4:33, Acts 8:14-17)
The apostles had power to receive revelations and visions. (Acts 10:9-16, Revelation of John)
What did the structure of the Church look like after Jesus was gone? (1 Corinthians 12:28-30)
When apostles died they chose others to replace them: Paul, Barnabas, and others not specifically mentioned in the text.
Eventually the apostles all disappeared. They died, were martyred or were exiled and not replaced. Who was the authority passed to? Where are the Apostles and prophets (1 Cor. 12:28) in the Christian churches today? Who has the power to receive knowledge for clarification of confusing scriptural passages?
Christianity continued but the authority from God was gone. The ”Mormons” are not the only ones who ask these questions. This is what led to the reformation and Protestantism.
The Catholics claim the authority was passed down in succession and now resides in the Pope. Logically, If that is true, then the Catholics are the standard and all other Christian churches are apostate (the “falling away” 2 Thes. 2:3). If, however, the Catholic claim is not true, then logically all other Christian churches, despite their’ good intentions, are still apostate and the Mormon claim has credibility.
As for the abstaining from "Alcohol and Coffee" - these can hardly be considered "foods". Think of all the evil that often comes with intoxication from alcohol.
Only cursed apostles were replaced in the Book of Acts.
If you keep replacing all your apostles, that's a bad sign.
First of all, what is Faith. If some are going to fall away from something, we should know the meaning of that something. Faith means “To hear God’s voice” in some manner. In other words, there is a huge difference between Faith and Believe. If one has Faith, then they are hearing from the spirit of God, and they are being obedient to what they hear in its full form.
Amos 8:11 tells us that there will come a time when people will not hear the word of God, or hear His voice. This has been going on for the last 2000 years, as the lack of hearing has created all of the denominations within the earth. Each denomination reads the same Bible yet they believe different things. This means that they are not getting their information from the spirit, they are getting it from their carnal mind, which is false intel.
1 John 2:27 says “But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things.” This means that we should be understanding the scriptures because the spirit will teach us the meaning, not another man (pastor). This is the true church of Christ, those who hear and obey God through Jesus, not a man made denomination. All church denominations are false churches, all of them, not just the LDS.
Jesus is currently teaching a select group of people on the earth the truth of the scriptures, yet the denominations will not hear them, they call these people heretics. For even Jesus says that His people Hear His Voice.
Most do not believe that God speaks to His created, because they themselves do not hear, therefore they deny that Faith means to Hear God. But this is ok, for God has shown me that He will remove the church denominations so that all can hear His voice, and when this happens all will come to know the truth.
Blessings
PS: BTW, the word “believe” toward the end of verse 3 should actually be translated to “Faith.” This is true in many places within scripture.
Can you make a video concerning Deuteronomy 4:2? Mormons will use this verse to suggest the New Testament is a 'new' book. They will also use Revelation 22 to conclude John was only referring to his epistle and not the New Testament in general.
That what jesus said
Christians in the early reformation period knew there was an apostacy. That is why the reformation occurred . You have no idea why Protestantism happened.
When your channel is called “God loves Mormons” but you start off the episode with “one of the main differences between Mormons and Christians…”
Let me ask you a question since you’re gatekeeping christianity: do true Christians believe the creation period took place in six literal days or is it figurative for periods of creation? Do Christians believe God has already chosen who will be saved and who will be damned? Do Christians believe in Sola Scriptura, and if they do does that mean everyone can interpret it accurately? If so then why are there so many different faiths which understand the Bible differently and how do you know your interpretation of a perfect work is actually perfect understanding?
You might consider watching GLM’s video, “Are All Denominations Divided”
In short, of course people are going to have differences in understanding over various passages. But there are certain core doctrines which unite Christians together and are clearly communicated in Scripture. To compromise on those core doctrines would be an affront to God.
@@BNichols021 so are “Christians” United in the belief of Sola Scriptura? Seems like a pretty prominent point that can lead to many differing beliefs
You didn’t really answer any of the questions
@kaylunrice Why is it that the LDS church's interpretation of scripture is correct but other religions are not? Why does the LDS church have the TRUE church but other religions don't? Why does Joseph Smith have authority but the Pope or other religious leaders do not have it?
Also to answer your questions. The list of things you asked are not salvation issues. Regardless of what each church believes on those topics it does not add or take away from what all Christian churches believe. Core beliefs like who God is (one God), Who Christ is (1 person of God), not one of many God's that have existed which is what the LDS teach. Not even the book of Mormon teaches many God's (because it was most likely a copy of the Bible the BoM teaches a Trinity teaching). Many God's is a teaching that came later in Joseph Smith's life. He changed his belief on God(s) over time.
hahaha the very fact that you are not Greek or Roman Catholic is because reformers of Christianity admitted that there was a falling away. Best study up.
How is this even an argument against the Latter Day Saints? Amos 3:7 God will reveal his secrets to his prophets, If all the apostles were killed off except John who was translated. The Catholic church would be the true church IF the priesthood had been passed to them. However it would also show that they wouldn't baptize babies. The authority to baptize which John the Baptist had since Christ walked forty miles to be baptized by him. If the Priesthood authority is not needed, why even do it? And if it was ok to baptized babies, why wouldn't Christ of been baptized then? Also if Christ is Perfect why did he even need baptizm? Another thought, 1 corinthians 15 Paul speaks that if Christ didn't atone for our sins and was resurrected, why do baptism for the dead? meaning, not only during Christ time were they practicing baptism, they were also doing baptism for the dead. How many church's since the fall of the apostles has been practicing baptisms for the dead? Also something to think about, in the last days two Prophets will be killed in the holy land, of what faith? Christians are so broad that if Amos 3:7 is in fact true (all christians seem to think one verse will prove the LDS church false), however the Power of the Priesthood is real and the LDS church is only going to get stronger as the days of darkness gets darker.
❤❤beautifully said
There lies at the heart of your argument one major problem-the apostles didn’t have the Aaronic(Levitical) or Melchizedek priesthoods.
Amos 3:7 is in the context of the prophets of the Old Testament, which the Bible says were until John the Baptist (Luke 16:16). Why do you think the veil in the temple was torn in two? (Matthew 27:51)
You have every right just as we do to ask the Catholic Church where their priesthood comes from considering they are not blood descendants of Aaron, and they definitely don’t claim to have the Melchizedek priesthood. So, what is their priesthood exactly? But I’m sure you’re aware that many Christians do not believe in or support infant baptism.
I would actually ask the same question about Jesus’s baptism. If water baptism is for the cleansing of sins, why did the sinless do it? My point being that water baptism isn’t what the LDS church claims it is. Remember that John the Baptist wanted to be baptized by Jesus, thinking himself unworthy to baptize Jesus (Mathew 3:14), unworthy to even loosen Jesus’s sandals (John 1:27). John the Baptist was the “voice crying in the wilderness” calling people to repentance (Isaiah 40:3). By baptizing Jesus, he was declaring to everyone publicly that this is the one we were waiting for.
Another important thing to remember is the purpose of the priests. They were the ones who presented the animal sacrifices to God to cover sins. John the Baptist was a son of parents whom were both descendants of Aaron (Luke 1:5). So John the Baptist was actually qualified to be a priest, himself being a blood descendant of Aaron. In John 1:29, John the Baptist refers to Jesus as “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.” How fitting is it then that he would be the one to present the “Lamb of God,” the ultimate sacrifice. Jesus said His baptism was “to fulfill all righteousness,” alluding to the righteousness He provides for all those who come to Him, that we might be made the righteousness of God.
You are correct in the point Paul is asking. But you’re reading into and assuming things about the baptism for the dead part. Paul separates himself from those doing it by saying THEY, not WE. There is no evidence in the New Testament of vicarious water baptism. Paul’s primary concern is defending the resurrection and pointing out their inconsistency. He’s not endorsing this with his rhetorical question. This is also the only mention of it in the entire Bible. We don’t know why this group Paul was referring to was doing this, how many there were, or if it even means vicarious water baptism. It could just mean baptizing new converts to replace the ones being killed at that time. But one thing is for certain, Paul was absolutely not endorsing or encouraging this, simply using it to point out the inconsistency. This is not a command to do so. There is also no evidence of the early church practicing vicarious work for the dead as the LDS church does.
I think it is irrelevant what group the two witnesses (prophets) will be a part of. I’m guessing by “faith” you mean Catholic, Methodist, baptist, etc. Some Christians theorize that the two witnesses will actually be Moses and Elijah, so I don’t see any relevance to your question.
Your statement of “all Christians seem to think one verse will prove the LDS church false” is… false. We actually reference many verses and passages, as well as look at and point to the history of Joseph Smith and the LDS church. Just watch more of GLM’s videos and you’ll see we use a LOT more than just one verse. The power of the priesthood is, indeed real, but only descendants of Aaron could hold the Aaronic priesthood, and only Jesus has the Melchizedek priesthood.
This video isn’t meant to be a be-all and end-all that proves Mormonism wrong. There are plenty of other videos and channels that discuss Mormonism. Mormonism Research Ministry (mrm.org) is another invaluable resource that really gets into the details of things that a single 4 minute video cannot possibly cover.
I find it interesting that many protestants and evangelicals feel the need to attack and denounce the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It seems to be an obsession. Interesting that you bring soo much attention to our faith.
From its inception, Mormonism claimed that the LDS Church was the only true church, and that it alone held the priesthood necessary to inherit all that God has to offer us. So……
On a more serious note, the Bible explicitly commands believers to address false teachings. GLM does this with a good demeanor, I think.
If there was no apostasy you would be Catholic pal. Or did you not understand the Reformation?
And just think of 46000 Christian faiths out there. Amazing!
You should rename this “attempting to refute the plain language of the Bible” . . . Which the MORMONS indisputably got right ❤
I mean... "some" is pretty plain language... did you happen to watch the video?
Some departed from the faith in Galatia, accepting a false gospel by adding a ceremony of works to their understanding of what makes a person right before God. Paul called them to repent from it and hold to the truth (See Galatians). Some have departed from the faith since the beginning, but never all.
Friend, why would you say the “Mormons indisputably got it right” when they understand “some” to be “all”? Not only is that a rejection of a plain reading of the text, but wouldn’t you at least agree it’s disputable to distort the text like that?
Ummm no they didn’t