How to adjust a long saddle on a Martin guitar
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- This is how I adjust a long saddle to lower the action. I adjust ALL saddles from the top, just like this. If I remove it from the guitar, then I clamp it in a vise and measure the saddle itself and subtract accordingly.
I just did my 1944 D-18 this morning. I did it the hard way before watching this video. I filed and intonated my low E, then my G, then I feathered the A an D between them to a pleasing arc while checking height and intonation. Then I did my B string, and left my high E alone as it was good. It was more work than the method here, but I did it and checked the feel at the same time, with the result that it plays perfectly to the feel I want. I went from .115 to .100 on the Low E. So much easier to play. I may touch it a bit more, but feels pretty good the way it is. I wouldn’t want the low E lower that .095, so I’m just about to my perfect set up. I usually don’t like to go the full distance the first pass, and may just leave alone.
I just lowered the action on a guitar with a long saddle for the first time. This video was a great guide. Thanks a ton!
Thanks a million for uploading videos like these... these are the most interesting videos: craftsmen at work.
Thank u for this!!!
Now I can tackle all my long cut thru glued in saddles.
Thank you for this
Watching your videos makes feel like I really want to be a luthier :)
Thank you, great job sharing your tricks of the trade.
Glad it was helpful!
I love the long glued in saddle, my D18 has it, but they can be a little cantankerous in weather changes. lol
Go Bryan I'm for sure going to buy them. you are amazing
Great video thank you
Really great, thank you
Thanks! for the VIDEO
now I've been vindicated!
🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋
How have you been vindicated?
I don't think I have this delicate manual skill. I tried but simply replaced with a standard Martin bone saddle at the end of the day.
Most blanks are high on purpose and need to be adjusted down. Reason being is every guitar and player is different, so a "standard" preadjusted saddle doesn't exist. If your guitar is correct without an adjustment on a new saddle, it likely means your neck is backset or you are a very tolerant player. Adjusting the saddle is not hard to do. Just need to go slow and sneak up on it, with constant measuring.
Bryan,
Thanks for sharing. One question/comment.
I appreciate the accuracy & precision you desire in taking measurements but I question your technique in doing so. I wonder if resting the neck on your shoulder "might" introduce some unwanted movement of the neck adversely affecting your action measurements. I've seen others take these measurements while holding the instrument in a playing position. Have you ever checked to see if this is an issue?
I have. It's a TINY difference. Almost immeasurable. If your neck moves a significant amount from the shoulder to playing position, that neck has issues. I mean, people tie their strap to the headstock, ya know? And besides all that... the measurement itself isn't important... there's nothing magical about 0.094" for instance. What matters is a) how the guitar plays and b) that YOU measure consistently. So, I didn't start by setting guitars to some number... I found guitars that played really well for me FIRST and then measured them. I did so by setting the headstock on my shoulder, because a) it's a lot easier to see the light, b) it frees up your hands, c) if you drop your feeler gauges... well, you'll see!!
Good question, though.
Here's a quick and easy test.... put the guitar on your shoulder like I'm doing it and tune it (with a strobe, hopefully). Now move it to the playing position and re-check the tune. It'll change- indicating a change in neck tension- but usually only a cent or two. Then, with the neck in playing position, pull the nut back and forth a little, see how much (how _little_!!!!) motion it takes to create the same amount of tuning change. Watch the string action while you do this. FWIW, I have found that simply leaving my hand on the tuners while tuning can change the pitch a few cycles!!!
A really fun thing to do would be to pass a guitar around a group of experienced action measurers and have them write down their readings. Post it up on the whiteboard and compare.
un immense MERCI
Hey Bryan, this is Farmer, I picked up my guitar a few weeks ago. Absolutely love it. Have you ever thought about doing an instructional series about all the work you do? I'm sure you could set it up on a website and charge x dollars per video. They would probably be popular. I know I would buy them. Just a thought.
blueshirttail Thought about it. Haven't done it yet. Maybe! Glad you like your guitar.
thanks for uploading this video Bryan. I wonder how you shave and scallop the braces from the inside.
+Dino Kintanar A variety of tools- curved shur-form scrapers, fingerplanes, curved sanding sticks. Mostly feel with frequent inspection via mirror.
I would like to know too how you know when you have 'the sound'... I tried it on a el cheapo guitar once but I'm not really sure if it was better or not (i had also enlarged the soundhole to a Full Tony).
I'm gonna answer this on my Facebook channel as it's easier to type and edit over there. See ya there!
facebook.com/KimseyLutherie
so you do the compensation visually without checking the intonation? And you do not need to read the radius of the neck and match the saddle radius to it?
It's a Martin D sized guitar... the scale doesn't vary. If it DOES vary, you probably have a chip in the nut or flat-topped frets, both of which you should correct. Besides, you can only vary intonation on a 3/32" saddle so much. From the center of the saddle, you've only got 3/64ths (0.047") to work with in either direction. It's really not that much and in any case, unless the saddle slot has been scooted, the low E and B will always have to go back as far as they can, the D and G as far forward. So.... you can measure every time, but you're gonna come out with the same results every time. Now. on a _different_ guitar, like a 25.6" scale Mossman or a Gibson B-25... yeah, I'll test it with toothpicks on the bridge.
As for the saddle radius.... the saddle's purpose is to set the action. So, I don't bother with a secondary measurement (the saddle radius) but I measure the action and saddle directly and set the saddle where it needs to be. If you step down in action: .093, .092, .087, .084.... etc... you'll find that the saddle radius is _flatter_ than the f/board radius. On a 16" board, the saddle will be more like 20" radius. But again... I don't care what the radius of the saddle is. I only care what the action is.
@@Bryankimsey wow, thanks for your fantastic answer to my question
I've seen other videos where some luthiers put a capo directly on top of the first fret (to take the nut out of the equation) in order to measure the true 12th fret action. Do you do that or not?
No... If they do that, then the nut's not set correctly, right? I set the nut slot height before I do anything to the saddle. Order: 1) neck relief, 2) nut slots, 3) then and only then, saddle.
ruclips.net/video/6WEXmg0kOuw/видео.html
@@Bryankimsey thanks again for your great response. Your order of doing things makes perfect sense. Its not exactly rocket science, yet there is so much misinformation out there and so how many so many people do it ass backwards. Armed with the info i gained from your excellent videos, i feel confident to set up my SSD45 (with long saddle). I'm surprised that the Martin factory let it go out the door with such high action. Even more amazing is that I have lived with it this way for 23 years. Im living in Chile now and I don't trust any of the luthiers here to work on this guitar. THANKS AGAIN!
I'm curious, what tone quality do you get on guitars that have thru-cut bridge's? Thanks
If you take the same guitar and cut a long thru saddle and then glue it in, you will generally a little warmer or fuller sound. A short saddle will tend to be a little more focused. The slot depth and whether it's glued in or not will affect things, too. And it's not a big difference at all. Here's something that's easy to try, though... if you have a long saddle guitar and you're gonna be making a new saddle anyway for some reason, take the current saddle and cut the ends off, making it a short saddle. Compare Before/After with a control guitar (one that you don't change anything on). See if you hear a difference and/or which one you like better.
Mostly... I like the way long saddles look. ;)
Out of a desire to learn, why wouldn't you remove the saddle and file the underside? I'd appreciate your insight on the dis-advantage of filing from the underside and simply lowering the action that way, without worrying about the top side's precise curvature and existing notching (or what have you)... That is a novice quesiton coming from this novice, but I appreciate any of your thoughts on that. Thank you, Bryan!
Lots of reasons: 1) I'm paid to do precision work therefore I'm going to set the action exactly where I want it. This is not always possible when sanding from the bottom. 2) to sand a long saddle from the bottom I'd have to remove it. Most of them are glued in. I can remove glued in ones but I'm still going to shape it from the top, so why bother? 3) when you lower a long saddle from the bottom it gets shorter and lower and the curve of the saddle no longer matches the wings of the bridge. 4) it's faster, easier, and more accurate to just do it the way shown in the video.
Thank you!
That's crap ! just take it of the bottom...….. so you don't mess with the factory set intonation, you will notice that the top of the saddle has been filed backwards and forwards. Get it right mate or I shall inform the international guild of luthiers and they will unleash the krakin on thee!!
LOL.... it's pretty easy to add compensation- I do it right there in the video!- and if YOU pay attention, you'll notice that no vintage models have compensation from the factory. Furthermore, the amount of actual compensation available on a 3/32" wide saddle really is miniscule. If you take a long vintage saddle down from the bottom, it will be shorter and you'll lose the matching scallop on the bridge ends. Go ahead and report me.
great job - great instruction thanks!!!
Why can’t u just sand the bottom of saddle to get the right heighth
1) the wings won't sit flush with the bridge anymore, 2) the saddle will get shorter as it also goes down, since you're sanding the curve, 3) I probably don't want to lower it evenly- I probably want to lower 1-2 strings more than the others, 4) if the saddle is glued in, you'll have to un-glue it a remove it.
Makes sense now,thanks
@@Bryankimsey I think it makes more sense than screwing with the top of it. I used to make jewelry and I can sand something flat.
The ability to sand flat has nothing to do with it. See (1), (2), (3) above. You can sand a _short_ saddle down from the bottom, but that doesn't give you the ability to adjust individual strings (3). And since this video is about LONG saddles.... working from the top is way better than from the bottom. I do about 125 saddles a year x 20 years and all but the very cheapest/quickest are done top down, no matter if they're long or short. You, of course, may adjust your saddle however you want. :)
Remove, mark and file the BOTTOM of that saddle, not the top where all the angles are, you're changing the whole sound of that guitar.
Any real repair guy can put the compensation back in. It's simple and I do it right there in the video. Or leave it uncompensated, like it was originally.
As I've explained a dozen times, if you remove from the bottom of a long vintage saddle, you shorten it, you disrupt the saddle/bridge interface, and the curve of the saddle/bridge will no longer match. You also have no opportunity to adjust individual string heights, like I'm doing here. Furthermore, this saddle is glued and to remove it means breaking the glue bond.
Hi so the top of the saddle when originally made comes from the factory simply rounded ? Thank you
On the vintage replicas, yes. I'm modifying the stock saddle, so I can do whatever I want and I nearly always put compensation in.