@@dutch24that’s how cobras work bro yu hav to be slow or yu will rip IRL that’s why in reality a cobra even in a dog fight is useless there’s so many hints someone’s about to cobra lmfao easy gun kill with a 9m to top it off 😊
@@thatboydre7585 Ok bro spit yo shit. I'm talking about it from mostly an aerodynamic standpoint. In the J35 you need to be stalled out to cobra while it's meant to serve as an airbraking function. I know how cobras work. Look up real footage of a Kort Parad and compare it to the speeds you can do it at in-game. I don't need it for dogfighting purposes, not having it is just a shame.
It's typical Gaijin. They make something great to get people to spend money then once people have spent all their money they nerf it down to where it should be. It shouldn't be surprising at this point.
@@fate3071 Not too smart is the key phrase you hit there. You'd be surprised at the amount of money people spend on GE, RP, and to a lesser extent, SL in order to force their way to a tech tree vehicle/mods they want if they're not already close to getting it. There's a reason Gaijin feeds us a pretty much endless stream of "convertible RP", they just don't call it what it is because then it'd be too obvious: "Buy RP". It's a business first and their first priority is always going to be profit. Player enjoyment is only considered if they're about to start losing money because of it.
The eurocanard update (the real ones like eurofighter and rafale) will for sure be interesting, can't really think of other 4th gens that can match that level of performance + armament
I don’t know if they can move beyond 4+ gen, because what could they add? Only the F-35, SU-57, and F-22, with the F-35 being a brick and the F-22 bitch slapping everything else. I can’t imagine an F-22 being in game, or fighting anything that isn’t the Su-57 or F-22 itself. At least 4+ has some competition with su-30 and thrust vector Russian planes, the super hornets, F15EX, etc so there could be some balance
@@northerngannet3740valid, that would be fun; although in that case, they’d have to be in their own BR bracket cuz fighting an F-22 in an F16 is just unfair. If they add stealth, they should add the same br-block they initially had with sub/supersonic jets
@@gansior4744 The gripen was the best performing fighter in Red Flag Alaska and came out 10 AA kill to 0 losses. And while they did that they still finished all their missions and tasks. 1 Gripen-C took out 5 F-16C Block 50s
@@vauxcorsalol apart from the fact they bleed around 2x more speed than they should. But gaijin knows this is false, even with bug reports with substantial evidence proving it incorrect. Im guessing this is just to balance the planes missile loadouts which are the best in the game arguably.
The MiG-21 flight preformance is wrong too, it's supposed to be capable of pulling a cobra, documented during one of the arab-israeli wars. but russian bias or something like that
I remember when the gripen dropped, just hitting periodic countermeasures, and surviving in a 1 v 5 or 2 v 8 furball and winning. No other plane in game would survive that. While it was funny it was for sure broken. Also its damage model, you can get your wings blown off and itll still fly like nothing happened.
Finally, any WT CC mentions anything about the AAM-4s on the dev server. Even if only briefly touching that it is "very much underperforming," the issue where ALL sources used to bug report the stats of the AAM-4 (its a C&P MICA motor on a 223mm diameter missile which is also 234 kgs and has a C&P warhead/seeker of the AIM120). And the issue will only continue as all guesswork sources, no matter how educated the guesses are, will be denied because gaijin wants unrefutable numbers, and is inconsistent, at best, or willfully ignorant, at worst, on what they call proper sources
I have been talking about this for years! Gaijin has been using history to nerf things in their game, like having the best WW2 fighters/tanks fight Korean war or newer planes/tanks. What is going to happen when Gaijin runs out of history to nerf things??? Just make up UFOs?? They have made their bed and now its time to sleep in it.
It's always a nightmare dealing with these things. I have had massive problems getting the radar to lock it sometimes with the F-15J even though I see no obvious reason why it shouldn't be locking. Sometimes happens with the Su-27 to... they end up locking chaff if they do lock... Pulse Doppler btw... and generally the best way to deal with them has been with radar missiles.
Speaking of the F-22 getting added, I can't help but feel as cool as it would be to fly that thing in WT that the lack of HMD would have me leaning more toward using the F/A-18C (provided both have the AIM-9X at the time) Also what a nightmare the issue of balancing the AIM-9X is going to be lmao.
@@GeneralLee2000 That would be my guess honestly, especially given how long it's been in service without one and outside of testing, still hasn't got one in full service yet.
I’m sure there are hundreds of WarThunder players who watch Lee and others sometimes but I always find myself coming back to LEE!! I’d be proud to support you and also rep your sticker sir!
You must use crew reports not pilot published notes which are next to useless. UK unlike the USA AND RUS never put maximum flight performance charts in the ODM as the UK is a largely built up area where raw performance and reheat takeoffs were never used. There are crew reports that tell you enough of 1v1 encounters which are very accurate. Including 1v2 and 1v 4
It's so massively overperforming it's insane. It literally defies ohysica for anything to turn as hard and fast as this, and yet maintain speed and energy at the same time. It makes absolutely no sense.
@@filipkatila5511 I got the gripen in my account btw, and almost every single top tier jet, if I want to cope I could have just play it, but it not gonna make the game more fair and balance isn't it?
@@binhvuthanh5804 the gripen is fine where it is rn. It didnt need this nerf. The only people who bitch about it are dogshit free aboos and soviet mains. Next patch it would have been fine without the nerf. Other planes would have had more bvr armaments while the gripen trades that for a better flight model.
I wonder how a stock F-16 (12.0 BR) or any other stock 12.0 plane will do after the update... I honestly think 12.0 might just be absolute poop (especially stock) after this update...
Because its over performing issue is only by 1° degree and I believe gaijin even said its difficult to properly balance and nerf the f16's without making them under perform, so I hope they find a way to properly nerf it one day.
@@christopherchartier3017Since all aircraft in the game are allowed to pull 1.5x the amount of G that they normally would be able to IRL, why should the F-16 have it's G Limiter set to exactly what it could pull IRL? I'm not saying the limiter needs to be set at the 1.5x value exactly, but it is stupid to ask for it's exact IRL value when every other plane gets so to pull more than it already does IRL.
They had 2 or 3 nerfs, only one of them was announced and most people think it was a buff because it could pull more but they nerfed sustained rate at optimal speed, the block10 could do 26deg/s on introduction and now it's doing 23
Wanna say something. And probably everyone is going to get mad at me for some reason for saying this. The Griphen, at least in SB, is not this all powerful aircraft ya think it is. Since the very beginning of the Griphen's introduction to the game all the way to nkw, I have been gunned down once. I actually requested the person to continue a duel with me of which they then said they were going lightest fuel load while I had full internal fuel and 2 external tanks. Also a note here is that he was beating me 50% of the time while I had this full fuel setup while the Griphen had minimum fuel load. I then lowered my fuel load to minimum to then flip the tables completely and destroy the Griphen. I did this in the F-16C, and so far the F-16C still has the best FP which I don't expect to ever change tbh. I've done extensive duels with many Griphen players and the results have stayed the same every time. Now the nerfs, I don't see a reason for them unless it is to nerf the airframe to its irl counterpart. Other than that, the Griphen isn't this all powerful aircraft people say it is.
We don't have official information for future vehicles, but do we have access to core information? formulas? basic physics or something? which they utilize by putting in the values or design and let the formula do the rest of the performance overalls? its been done with shell pen, can't it be done with vehicle performance?
Actually, for me as a Gripen player. The nerfs are a good thing because it allows me to have a very good energy retention on both SB and RB. My main problem with the Gripen during the pre nerfs was that it has bad energy retention. Now I can even outrate an F-16C.
Just recently I stopped getting model ids for any aircraft, even on the runway an F-5 is just an F-5, it's been very annoying for me having to visually id based on the camos of aircraft, and I've been losing a lot of prop fights because I've misidentified Yak-3Us as Ps and Bf-109Ks as Gs.
@@PzIV-E On my end, the models only identify when I'm close to them. Like, dogfight range. But here, they're showing up from 15 miles away or something.
I want to come back to this game but I cant, at least not top tier. The automatic radar changes that came with Air Superiority destroyed the last bit of motivation I had to play. I'm honestly confused how little the community talks about it but ACM modes are actually useless if the enemy has a single pop of chaff (they do) and PD radar modes cant hold locks they used to since the radar confuses itself by switching modes. Ever since RWR got reworked to be incredibly sensitive to radar signatures, even if the radar is pointed in the opposite direction, I feel as the gameplay loop has continued to get more and more stale.
my hottest take is that the gripen should have kept at least some of its absurd flight performance and characteristics, but should have lost the Rb74Ms as the JAS39A variant didn't use them. ik they are there on a technicality that the gripen itself can use the missile as a platform, as well as for game balance and parity. Rb74 would not have been great at the gripens current BR. and here now its being nerfed again, and i havent felt anything unique about it since it dropped and got nerfed, but then again it was too good in that state with its kit and performance. it was so good that there was nothing pushing me to do better in it, but it is mostly just the fact that right now it is a very bland plane. it flies like an F-16 and the front canards dont do anything in terms of flight performance everything about current top tier feels bland, ive never felt this way about this game ever
The Gripen is never going to have a realistic fight model unless gaijin entirely remakes the planes FM from the ground up and revamps the physics engine in game. The current Gripen in War Thunder is modelled as a statically stable aircraft and the Canards have no effect on the FM (thankfully, since they deflect the wrong direction) because the game is incapable of modelling relaxed static stability and canards with the current physics engine (at least that was the response to the issues being reported on the forums).
man, im so slow to the gripen party that i just got the gripen A couple of weeks ago and ive been just watching it getting nerfed all the time lmao. im all for balanced gameplay but damn.
I have been hoping for a gripen nerf for so long. I hope they nerf it by increasing AOA (thus increasing speed bleed and lowering sustained turn.) Because canard deltas are insane at pulling high AOA second only to planes with thrust vectoring.
The gripen is not built for high AoA though. It's built to pull 9gs sustained. It can pull decent alpha but nothing like the EF2000 or Rafale or even the earlier Swedish deltas. This is all done via the FBW system and the gripen is known for carving through the air
@@jaxastro3072 In its current state you can't pull more than 45 degrees or so. It's appalling. I don't fly much air rb but I do aerobatics but I haven't been able to bring myself to do more than 15 minites on the gripen as it just has no AOA. It feels horrendous to go post stall in if you want to do anything but turn.
@@jaxastro3072 The gripen literally can pull 80 degrees of AoA irl In game it struggles at even 30 It turns as if it's a freaking high G F-14 or something. The WT flight model is completely detached from what the Gripen is in reality.
"Adds a good plane that they used stats for and then nerfs it because they realized the plane is busted" Just wait for the Eurocanards and pray because Gripens, Typhoons and Rafales will be the best planes
It was highly predictable. Gripen was heavily overperforming on release. In order to increase popularity of sweden tree and make some money. Nothing personal, just business.
Shortened. Gaijin saw that the Ukrainian war of 2022 gave a massive bump on MiG23 ML sales (it really outsells the F-4s) and added an OP gripen as a distraction from the BS that is six r27er per russian 12.7 aircraft; to then nerf it once every month til it becomes r27er fodder like the rest of aircraft.
Idk why Gripen players are yapping all over the table because a clearly overpowered aircraft gets nerfed: even the F14A wasn't as oppressive as the gripen rn because you could still kill it - but with the Gripen at low altitude and over 600 flares you are basically invincible to any missile whilst having the uncontested best flight performance at top tier. So you automatically win every 1 vs 1 situation even if the other player is actually better than you...
Honestly half the planes are nerfed without them bringing in stealth. But if they really did these planes true to life usa planes would have too much advantage. In reality half the Soviet planes you can't even see over the dash in real life. This game has gone way out of its way to make these planes equal. But in real life that's not the case. It also needs to bring in maintenance somehow. There's a massive different between all the planes that's a huge deal in real life but not in WT
Especially once we get EW in the game. The gripen E's EW suite is unrivaled amongst 4++ Gen fighters. EW + Meteor is gonna fuck this game up and you got IRIS-T in your back pocket if anyone is so bold as to get within 6-7 KMs of you
@@gansior4744tf is Pantsir? Can’t remember such plane. (I know what Pantsir is, i just can’t understand people who play “run to the corner of the map, sit there for the entire match and click one button as many times as you can” simulator (aka tank RB) and then complaining about mechanics/vehicles in TRB)🙃
The Gripen is my favorite jet currently in War Thunder and I wish they would stop nerfing it. I know I sound bias, but its a small light airframe with a good engine and canards...I mean, you would expect it to do well in dogfights and beat something like an F-15, Su-27. Until thrust vectoring gets put in the game I would expect the Gripen, Rafale and Eurofighter to be the top dogfighting jets when they get added. So I don't really get all these calls for nerfs. The meta is low to the ground furballs, of course missile busses will do bad and small nimble jets designed for maneuverability will do well.
These are warplanes. They’re not supposed to be balanced. Everyone is trying to break the edge over the next country. Don’t need planes simply for balance.
700 countermeasures?! What's the point even bothering to shoot a missile at it? Jesus. Meanwhile mig29 gets a whopping 80. Gotta love gaijin idea of balance 😂
yeah, it removes the whole idea of close range IR missiles or irccm completely since it has a 7 minute imunity timer with those. Can't dogfight it, can't missile it.
@@icantsleepman yeah, and 9-12(12.0 mig29) carrying r-73 is also historical, doesn't change the fact that some things get added and some do not because the snail just is like that
@@icantsleepman who cares, it's a video game. If I want realistic I'll join the military. What I want is a FAIR and BALANCED game that everyone can enjoy and everyone has the same ability to win, or lose. This isn't a game, it's a who has the best shit wins simulator. Mig29 German at 12.0 gets no r73 only the 12.7 29g does. And dodging irccm missiles like the r73 and 9m isn't that hard if you know what you are doing ESPECIALLY if u have 700 counter measures. Get launch warning, cut engine, spam counter measures AND CHANGE DIRECTION. The seeker turns off while flares are active and flies in the direction it last saw u. If u change directions, when the seeker head turns back on your engine isn't there for it to see and it misses. If you rely on the flares but keep flying in same direction it will reacquire lock and kill you.
Wassup lee? Yo cant wait to watch this 🙏 cant rn tho 😔 Next sale imma get the TAF and grind Italy (Hungary) for the mig29 and mayyyybe Gripen. Ik the TAF sucks but, fast + bombs = ez grind 🤷🏼♂️
*russian vehicle performs as stated on official sources* "NOOOOO, These animals are from the middle ages. you can't make them have something comparable to our alien tech" *grippen performs better than all public statements and all jets currently in game* "Skill issue"
Stated in official sources? Bro, you are reading propaganda sale Brochure. MiG-23 according to "official data" Was dogfighting like a F-5, while IRL it was not able to compete with a Phantom. BVM, eating DM53 with a UFP, while getting destroyed by a Mango and Stugna in Ukraine. I would love a realistic interpretation, but Russian vehicles are just handheld and you cant change that. Ever wondered why one set of fragments ends at 120mm bracket, just to make Russian cannons fragment more by default, even though they have shorter and weaker penetrators. No, nothing strange to see here
Gripen: Has impressive Turnrate, is quite fast and has many aim9ls and countermeasures. Me in my su27: Hehe, Radar missile go f-youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu*Boom* Seriously this thing is not that good, missile load is bad, IR missiles are generally trash because every flare instantly voids it's utility and this things engine is atrociously bad. Yes it turns well cuz it's small and light but its radar sucks and it has bad missiles. So everything you need, aka good, reliable missiles and speed to get in and out of Engagements it lacks. It's not that good
I honestly think all the Gripen nerfs after the third one are bullshit. An opinion from someone who has played this game since it practically launched and plays with several nations in the top tier. I can say that people complain a lot and the game is unfortunately being dominated by complaining newbie players. I agree with some changes that need to happen to flightmodels but you can't pull absolutely everything down just to "make it easier" for casual players. If the guy just dies, just try to be better... the amount of players I see just going straight and dying or just pressing "s" in simulation mode and hoping to win a dogfight is absurd... player skill should matter again more. The player who says he can't kill a Gripen in today's meta is the same one who says it's impossible to kill a zero with a p51. Airplanes have always had advantages over each other. well... just an opinion from a veteran watching the game's skill factor slowly die... and these fox 3 will only worsen this "skill factor" problem. But as always, we players will adapt
A) The game is a Semi-sim game, so some level of balancing is meant to be achieved. B) The Grippen up until these coming changes is still the slipperiest plane to kill because it can abuse multipath easily, have enough flares to throw off every IR missile, and force a turn fight that it will win against multiple targets while having 9M's on an HMD to boot. For many planes, there was no realistic way of winning even if you were a pro and they were basic in their knowledge of how not to die in that. C) Ah yes, a P-51 from the late 1943's and later going against a plane made in the mid 1930's and upgraded (barely) by 1942-3. . . Definitely a fair fight that is totally not skewed into one side winning of they have a brain. . . Definitely didn't have American mains complaining the Zero was "too good" when they threw their aircraft into a turn fight they COULD disengage from. . . Definitely not American skill issues
In 3 years after all the tweaks and nerfs the only difference the jets will have is visually, some jets are allowed to be better? They’ve been doing it for years why go all clinical with the balancing now?
Because something other than the big 3 have the best fucking plane for once I bought the Hunter FGA.9 nearly 4 years ago now and all the way back when i bought it, it's been facing MiG-21s that completely outperform it in every sense of the word, with only luck to save you. Not a single fucking mention of it ever in all four years. The fact that any MiG-21 fucking obliterate anything ESPECIALLY in downtiers (excluding the 10.3-7 MiGs at their own tier). Hell if anything people were saying the MiG-21 was bad because "muh speed bleed" when that doesnt matter because almost anything below it cant outturn it at any speed anyways lmfao Oh, and also, The F-5C. I don't think i need to explain that one. But as soon as its not a russian or american plane thats some uncounterable autowin meta it's all this song and dance bullshit. Curious.
Now if only they unfucked the MiG-29 and Su-27 FMs and gave the MiG-29 (9-13) and Yak-141 R-73s while moving them to 12.3 and removing the MiG-29's R-27ERs. It's only fair now that the R-27ER is obsolete and the ARH gap is basically non-existant.
Yeah have to disagree with you. First they're giving Germany a very bad 12.7 fox3 carrier, then u think the r27er should go? You must really really hate German tree players. You can take our r27er after they add the typhoon to our tree, not one minute sooner.
Nah, im glad it's getting nerfed, all evidence public available always points out the gripen should have 20° sustained turn rate, and 30° of instantaneous, but it's been over performing, we can't find any other bit of info saying it's able to sustain 21, 22, or even 23°, only one I've found that says it can sustain 23° was for the Gripen E, which we don't have in the game yet, so this nerf fits the aircrafts relatively realistic flight model keep in mind OF WHATS PUBLIC INFORMATION, so I hope we don't get players saying "but an article says the gripen is on par with the EF and Rafale in a dogfight" Yes the Gripen E, not the A and C, the nerf is justified in my opinion. Now aircraft like the 29's and F-16C's even the Flankers can compete with it now. Also, I found public info that both the Rafale and Eurofighter have apparently 24° and 23° of sustained and 100° to 70° of instantaneous, I've also looked at irl footage of airshows for the instantaneous part, and it seems accurate, and as for sustained, I tried to find other sources but they don't mentioned anything of value to flight performance, and this info I found was from 4 different websites talking about those two aircraft as those websites try to compere the differences of them, all I can gareented is that both aircraft have a sustained above 22° and 80° of instantaneous, so we can at least expect that from both the EF and Rafale. That's all I found and know. PS: do take this info about the EF (EuroFighter) and Rafale info with a grain of salt as this is what many others have said and no actual flight data is public for obvious reasons.
@@CruLisP oh what papers are you getting this info from? Because every other paper I find it says the max sustained the gripen A/C has 20° of sustained turn rate, 22° if pushed to higher speeds, so please tell me what for seen flight data papers you could have found that say otherwise, because keep in mind articles don't count as a good source.
They nerf the mirage they nerf the grippen. Whats with gaijin and nerfing minor nations . Especially the mirage like why cant france have a good homebrewed aircraft. I get its getting benelux however let em have a good jet.
If its so hard to get real info on these planes please explain to me how on different games/sims we can get high fidelity flight models and avionics on planes and helis like F16CM Block 50, F18C, F15E, AH64D, Mirage 2000C (This one kinda old if compared to Mirage 2000 5F but mehh) , A10C II, some of those modules receiving extreme praise from retired and active military personnel. Not to mention the miles better missile and radar characteristics on those games which is fucking insane to say since they have AIM9X Block 1 and AIM120C-5. The AIM9M and R73E in this disgrace of a game has a EXTREMELY retarded flare resistance and pull fucking insanely more than what they should 70% of the time. Gaijin is just fucking lazy, the only thing they have to get right is the fucking flight model and they cant even do THAT.
DCS also has flawed FMs for its aircrafts. It's not as bad as wt, but there are a lot of cases for couple of degrees per second missing here and there. Also nowadays wt does way better job at modeling CCM on missiles. DCS just calculates a chances for the ir missile to get distracted in different circumstances, so putting enough flares in the air solves any problem. Wt at least tries to model things like that correctly (not to say that DCS is bad, it's a great game, but isn't perfect by any mean)
You'll be fine since u still have 8 missiles and a radar that seems to track and hold lock on low altitude targets better than any other top tier jet. If u are trying to turn fight dogfight in it, you are playing it wrong.
@TeamValkyrie2023 "playing it wrong" irl it's literally one of the best dogfighters ever built. Gaijin have massively butchered its flight performance
@@TeamValkyrie2023 it has a 2.5x drag nerf to the flight model, a f15 and f14 can dogfight it, its a missile bus, and the radar is very easy to notch if you arent braindead
Because it's all about kills. If you play properly maintaining energy, chances are your target is gonna be killed by your teammates and you get nothing. It's turn, burn, lock, and fire. That's the grind cycle.
"This patch is going to be huge for air" for literally 2 BRs worth of the tech tree. This is one of the emptiest and least worth playing updates in War thunder's entire history
It's not because of the algorithm people are trying to getting nerfed with the info they can find and give to gaijin to support their claim as to why it's over performing, which btw from all public sources found they all say the gripen is over performing, this new nerf should put it to very close irl sustained turn rates.
@@WOLFER. This just prove my point that gaijin only listen to their algorithms, being that the algorithm says gripen is overperforming that they finally nerfing it down while the community said it was long before that. And i also believe that bad gameplay loop play a big part on this problem that has been plaguing warthunder since the first launch of mig 15, when amraam drop f15 going to be "overperforming" because the amount of missiles it can carry. A gameplay where it demand all the plane that is not a dogfighter to be good at dogfighting is not a good gameplay when others type of plane exists in the game. It's a fundamental problem with warthunder, not just because "this plane is not supposed to be ____" type of problem
@@banyanyas839 your point wasnt made because if you go to the forums people provide evidence they found that made the gripen get nerfed, instead of putting the blame on the "algorithm" do the research and if you cna provide any publicly available non classified info to prove the gripne doesnt deserve the nerf then please, go report it to the forums instead of complaining that the aircraft is getting nerfed.
@@WOLFER. I think you're missing my point here, what i point out is that not that gripen doesn't deserve the nerf my point is gaijin only care because the algorithm says it's overperforming. The blatant prove of this is su11, that plane is overpowered in its respective BR but gaijin didn't neef that because it doesn't necessarily overperforming according to their algorithms, because the plane is overpowered but hard to play with. There is a group of people taking a objectively bad plane and doing so good with it the algorithm say that the plane is overperforming in it's BR and what do you know the next update the plane got uptiered. This problems has been plaguing warthunder since ages ago, and the bad gameplay loop is contributing to this aswell, that's why i said instead of improving the gameplay so more plane could get a deserving chance they just take the easy way and nerf "overpowered" plane according to their algorithms. And then again im not saying gripen doesn't deserve its nerf, hell I didn't even know gripen doesn't have accurate performance to begin with im just saying instead of fixing the gameplay they just take the easy way and just nerf things even when sometimes a plane that doesn't deserve to be nerf
The grippen has only need like its first nerf everything after that has pretty much just been everyone complaining because they cant handle the 1v1 and get dunked on in the missle slinging furrball
As a person that has talked to a us engineer that has been in a gripen and has worked on it its underperforming just a bunch of kids that complain about the game and notice how bad they are interesting to see how the euro and rafle turn out to be 😂
Just a quick point and I’m getting sick talking to people about “balance” in warthunder, you cannot balance based off realism, real life is a situation of nations and technology repeatedly leapfrogging each other to get ahead. The BR system is supposed to be the solution to this but it’s horrendously out of date and mismanaged. People and Gaijin need to pick one and stick to it! Realism or Balance, a game or a half assed simulator (this game is not a sim).
@@jansatamme6521 yes but it's lighter than the C while having better IR missiles and at minimum equal radar missiles (depends on if they fix the AAM-4, AMRAAM may be better but it has it too) and possibly getting MAWS too
A video game shouldn't be based on realism. If someone beats me using "the best vehicle in the game" that's not skill, that's "I have better shit than you so you're wasting your time playing this game unless you go spend money".
2:50 What will be interesting is the introduction of the Belgian F-16's, both of which can carry 9M and have roughly block 10 flight performance
they're both blk15 fms im p sure
So the F16AM were already getting?
@@mikeyplayzwrld Yeah, Block 15 with MAWS, AIM 120 and 9m
Also the 12.3 version with exclusively 9M
BEST F-16's IN THE GAME ONLY BEATEN SLIGHTLY BY THE F-16C BLOCK 50 💪💪💪💪
@@moery2435they're probably even better than the C considering it has the worst F16 flight model aside from the Barak II
J35 still can't do a proper cobra and Gaijin just keeps shoveling dirt on it
it legit can use sim controls
@@sirhayden5516 Doesn't cut it, only at very, very low speeds where recovery is a wish
Cry more
@@dutch24that’s how cobras work bro yu hav to be slow or yu will rip IRL that’s why in reality a cobra even in a dog fight is useless there’s so many hints someone’s about to cobra lmfao easy gun kill with a 9m to top it off 😊
@@thatboydre7585 Ok bro spit yo shit. I'm talking about it from mostly an aerodynamic standpoint.
In the J35 you need to be stalled out to cobra while it's meant to serve as an airbraking function. I know how cobras work.
Look up real footage of a Kort Parad and compare it to the speeds you can do it at in-game.
I don't need it for dogfighting purposes, not having it is just a shame.
It's typical Gaijin. They make something great to get people to spend money then once people have spent all their money they nerf it down to where it should be. It shouldn't be surprising at this point.
But it's a tech tree vehicle, so if people spent money on it for more than maybe a talisman then they're not too smart
@@fate3071 🤔 we are talking about wt players so smart isn't usually a way to describe 90% of them
@@TeamValkyrie2023 You right, how silly of me to assume they could have more than a single brain cell
@@fate3071 Not too smart is the key phrase you hit there. You'd be surprised at the amount of money people spend on GE, RP, and to a lesser extent, SL in order to force their way to a tech tree vehicle/mods they want if they're not already close to getting it. There's a reason Gaijin feeds us a pretty much endless stream of "convertible RP", they just don't call it what it is because then it'd be too obvious: "Buy RP". It's a business first and their first priority is always going to be profit. Player enjoyment is only considered if they're about to start losing money because of it.
At least unlike most nerfs, the plane is still stupidly strong overall, it's just not absolutely UFO levels of cracked out now
The eurocanard update (the real ones like eurofighter and rafale) will for sure be interesting, can't really think of other 4th gens that can match that level of performance + armament
And to think that grippen is the weakest of the 3. Rafale and Typhoon will be just scary
I don’t know if they can move beyond 4+ gen, because what could they add? Only the F-35, SU-57, and F-22, with the F-35 being a brick and the F-22 bitch slapping everything else. I can’t imagine an F-22 being in game, or fighting anything that isn’t the Su-57 or F-22 itself.
At least 4+ has some competition with su-30 and thrust vector Russian planes, the super hornets, F15EX, etc so there could be some balance
@@Northern00 j-20 definitely and hopefully yf23
@@northerngannet3740valid, that would be fun; although in that case, they’d have to be in their own BR bracket cuz fighting an F-22 in an F16 is just unfair.
If they add stealth, they should add the same br-block they initially had with sub/supersonic jets
@@gansior4744 The gripen was the best performing fighter in Red Flag Alaska and came out 10 AA kill to 0 losses. And while they did that they still finished all their missions and tasks. 1 Gripen-C took out 5 F-16C Block 50s
MiG-29/Su-27 FM fix when
nothing wrong with them?
@@vauxcorsalol apart from the fact they bleed around 2x more speed than they should. But gaijin knows this is false, even with bug reports with substantial evidence proving it incorrect. Im guessing this is just to balance the planes missile loadouts which are the best in the game arguably.
@@reinni2968 that does make sense the su27 flys like a mig21 lmao
The MiG-21 flight preformance is wrong too, it's supposed to be capable of pulling a cobra, documented during one of the arab-israeli wars.
but russian bias or something like that
Ah yes a upload from the general of wt! Also I saw your meme post last night and I found it funny! Have a good rest of your weekend general!
I'm glad you enjoyed the meme!
I remember when the gripen dropped, just hitting periodic countermeasures, and surviving in a 1 v 5 or 2 v 8 furball and winning. No other plane in game would survive that. While it was funny it was for sure broken. Also its damage model, you can get your wings blown off and itll still fly like nothing happened.
Finally, any WT CC mentions anything about the AAM-4s on the dev server. Even if only briefly touching that it is "very much underperforming," the issue where ALL sources used to bug report the stats of the AAM-4 (its a C&P MICA motor on a 223mm diameter missile which is also 234 kgs and has a C&P warhead/seeker of the AIM120).
And the issue will only continue as all guesswork sources, no matter how educated the guesses are, will be denied because gaijin wants unrefutable numbers, and is inconsistent, at best, or willfully ignorant, at worst, on what they call proper sources
im pretty sure the BOL flares are supposed to be invisible in daylight so they should model that too
Imagine the Ef2000 nerf when it dropped it's gonna be crazy
I have been talking about this for years! Gaijin has been using history to nerf things in their game, like having the best WW2 fighters/tanks fight Korean war or newer planes/tanks. What is going to happen when Gaijin runs out of history to nerf things??? Just make up UFOs?? They have made their bed and now its time to sleep in it.
It's always a nightmare dealing with these things. I have had massive problems getting the radar to lock it sometimes with the F-15J even though I see no obvious reason why it shouldn't be locking. Sometimes happens with the Su-27 to... they end up locking chaff if they do lock... Pulse Doppler btw... and generally the best way to deal with them has been with radar missiles.
Speaking of the F-22 getting added, I can't help but feel as cool as it would be to fly that thing in WT that the lack of HMD would have me leaning more toward using the F/A-18C (provided both have the AIM-9X at the time)
Also what a nightmare the issue of balancing the AIM-9X is going to be lmao.
Hye 5 of the F-22 got HMD last year for testing, so it'll probably get it ingame unless they wanna do "F-22 Early"
@@GeneralLee2000 That would be my guess honestly, especially given how long it's been in service without one and outside of testing, still hasn't got one in full service yet.
@@GeneralLee2000f22a
Not convincing me to actually come back, Gaijin.
I’m sure there are hundreds of WarThunder players who watch Lee and others sometimes but I always find myself coming back to LEE!! I’d be proud to support you and also rep your sticker sir!
SO REAL! Look forward to it.
You must use crew reports not pilot published notes which are next to useless. UK unlike the USA AND RUS never put maximum flight performance charts in the ODM as the UK is a largely built up area where raw performance and reheat takeoffs were never used. There are crew reports that tell you enough of 1v1 encounters which are very accurate. Including 1v2 and 1v 4
It's so massively overperforming it's insane. It literally defies ohysica for anything to turn as hard and fast as this, and yet maintain speed and energy at the same time. It makes absolutely no sense.
Literally turn 180° and still catches u and launching aim9m, F5C at top tier
Cope
@@filipkatila5511 I got the gripen in my account btw, and almost every single top tier jet, if I want to cope I could have just play it, but it not gonna make the game more fair and balance isn't it?
@@binhvuthanh5804 the gripen is fine where it is rn. It didnt need this nerf. The only people who bitch about it are dogshit free aboos and soviet mains. Next patch it would have been fine without the nerf. Other planes would have had more bvr armaments while the gripen trades that for a better flight model.
@@filipkatila5511 it is acceptable in this patch because it have no radar missiles the next patch gonna make it very competitive tho
I wonder how a stock F-16 (12.0 BR) or any other stock 12.0 plane will do after the update...
I honestly think 12.0 might just be absolute poop (especially stock) after this update...
funny how they nerfed the gripen 5 times yet the F-16A block 10 still havent had the airframe nerfs
It’s airframe is mostly fine but the G-Limiter is absent and it’s pulling too much AoA
Because its over performing issue is only by 1° degree and I believe gaijin even said its difficult to properly balance and nerf the f16's without making them under perform, so I hope they find a way to properly nerf it one day.
The block 10 is also getting a very small nerf this update, much less than the Gripen tho lol
@@christopherchartier3017Since all aircraft in the game are allowed to pull 1.5x the amount of G that they normally would be able to IRL, why should the F-16 have it's G Limiter set to exactly what it could pull IRL? I'm not saying the limiter needs to be set at the 1.5x value exactly, but it is stupid to ask for it's exact IRL value when every other plane gets so to pull more than it already does IRL.
They had 2 or 3 nerfs, only one of them was announced and most people think it was a buff because it could pull more but they nerfed sustained rate at optimal speed, the block10 could do 26deg/s on introduction and now it's doing 23
Wanna say something. And probably everyone is going to get mad at me for some reason for saying this.
The Griphen, at least in SB, is not this all powerful aircraft ya think it is. Since the very beginning of the Griphen's introduction to the game all the way to nkw, I have been gunned down once. I actually requested the person to continue a duel with me of which they then said they were going lightest fuel load while I had full internal fuel and 2 external tanks. Also a note here is that he was beating me 50% of the time while I had this full fuel setup while the Griphen had minimum fuel load. I then lowered my fuel load to minimum to then flip the tables completely and destroy the Griphen. I did this in the F-16C, and so far the F-16C still has the best FP which I don't expect to ever change tbh.
I've done extensive duels with many Griphen players and the results have stayed the same every time.
Now the nerfs, I don't see a reason for them unless it is to nerf the airframe to its irl counterpart. Other than that, the Griphen isn't this all powerful aircraft people say it is.
We don't have official information for future vehicles, but do we have access to core information? formulas? basic physics or something? which they utilize by putting in the values or design and let the formula do the rest of the performance overalls? its been done with shell pen, can't it be done with vehicle performance?
Lots of ppl re saying Su27's FM fixing. If Gaijin fixed it, wat will happen to Su27? Better turn rate? or better energy retention?
Better retention
Better energy retention
Worse g pull, worse energy retention, worse sustain
It should loose roughly 2 times less speed in subsonic turns
Actually, for me as a Gripen player. The nerfs are a good thing because it allows me to have a very good energy retention on both SB and RB. My main problem with the Gripen during the pre nerfs was that it has bad energy retention. Now I can even outrate an F-16C.
U always could out-rate and f16c lol and f16a in the games current state
What setting does he have that shows the modifications of aircraft in-game from so far away?
IE:
F-15 *A*
F-16 *C* or *A*
Su-27 *S* etc
Just recently I stopped getting model ids for any aircraft, even on the runway an F-5 is just an F-5, it's been very annoying for me having to visually id based on the camos of aircraft, and I've been losing a lot of prop fights because I've misidentified Yak-3Us as Ps and Bf-109Ks as Gs.
@@PzIV-E
On my end, the models only identify when I'm close to them.
Like, dogfight range.
But here, they're showing up from 15 miles away or something.
OMG a minor nation got a competitive aircraft?!??!? Gaijin nerf it NOW!!!!!!!
since UK also got it they are nerfing it extra hard. britain can't have shit
The Gripen is more than competitive. Stop being an ass.
Competitive? No, it was the best
sweden is not a minor nation, they havent been for a while
@@remdr231lmfao sweden is a minor nation wtf are u talking about bozo
I want to come back to this game but I cant, at least not top tier. The automatic radar changes that came with Air Superiority destroyed the last bit of motivation I had to play. I'm honestly confused how little the community talks about it but ACM modes are actually useless if the enemy has a single pop of chaff (they do) and PD radar modes cant hold locks they used to since the radar confuses itself by switching modes. Ever since RWR got reworked to be incredibly sensitive to radar signatures, even if the radar is pointed in the opposite direction, I feel as the gameplay loop has continued to get more and more stale.
I might return to top tier if the planes are on equal level. Today dealing with gripens is possible, but straight up unfun.
my hottest take is that the gripen should have kept at least some of its absurd flight performance and characteristics, but should have lost the Rb74Ms as the JAS39A variant didn't use them. ik they are there on a technicality that the gripen itself can use the missile as a platform, as well as for game balance and parity. Rb74 would not have been great at the gripens current BR.
and here now its being nerfed again, and i havent felt anything unique about it since it dropped and got nerfed, but then again it was too good in that state with its kit and performance. it was so good that there was nothing pushing me to do better in it, but it is mostly just the fact that right now it is a very bland plane. it flies like an F-16 and the front canards dont do anything in terms of flight performance
everything about current top tier feels bland, ive never felt this way about this game ever
Perhaps a forshadowing of smaller players in battles? Cause one v one dogfights are quite rare at top tier
I'm just getting the mirage 4k and now it's going to be useless. Can't wait
itll still be pretty competitive as a furballer, the m2k is getting nerfed so.
You have a very bad mind set. With that mind set you better don't play warthunder at all.
Yeah same,
The Gripen is never going to have a realistic fight model unless gaijin entirely remakes the planes FM from the ground up and revamps the physics engine in game. The current Gripen in War Thunder is modelled as a statically stable aircraft and the Canards have no effect on the FM (thankfully, since they deflect the wrong direction) because the game is incapable of modelling relaxed static stability and canards with the current physics engine (at least that was the response to the issues being reported on the forums).
man, im so slow to the gripen party that i just got the gripen A couple of weeks ago and ive been just watching it getting nerfed all the time lmao. im all for balanced gameplay but damn.
General Lee upload, so this day is automatically a good day to be alive
if it still works I will still fly it because I love the gripen irl, just havent unlocked it yet
Can't wait for someone to say that the F4F ice isn't dog shite
Based
I have been hoping for a gripen nerf for so long. I hope they nerf it by increasing AOA (thus increasing speed bleed and lowering sustained turn.) Because canard deltas are insane at pulling high AOA second only to planes with thrust vectoring.
The gripen is not built for high AoA though. It's built to pull 9gs sustained. It can pull decent alpha but nothing like the EF2000 or Rafale or even the earlier Swedish deltas. This is all done via the FBW system and the gripen is known for carving through the air
@@jaxastro3072 In its current state you can't pull more than 45 degrees or so. It's appalling. I don't fly much air rb but I do aerobatics but I haven't been able to bring myself to do more than 15 minites on the gripen as it just has no AOA. It feels horrendous to go post stall in if you want to do anything but turn.
Learn to play instead of wishing something gets nerfed lol
@@jaxastro3072 The gripen literally can pull 80 degrees of AoA irl
In game it struggles at even 30
It turns as if it's a freaking high G F-14 or something. The WT flight model is completely detached from what the Gripen is in reality.
Deserved…
Oh sorry I mean, “all nerfs not to Russia are not warranted and should not happen. Oh yeah and something something Russian bias.”
5 nerfs wasn't enough please keep the nerfs coming 🙏🙏🙏
No don’t nerf my grippy boi:(
Tf do i play in itally than?
Diagnosis: Skill Issue
@@Elbereth_TV and my diagnosis of you, countermeasure spammer most likely
and after seek and destroy teh gripen A is almost imposible to lpay
But when su27 and mig29 fm buff????
"Adds a good plane that they used stats for and then nerfs it because they realized the plane is busted" Just wait for the Eurocanards and pray because Gripens, Typhoons and Rafales will be the best planes
The South African Gripen having the R darter is bad enough. That thing is a piece of shit.
Meanwhile the yak 141 laughing its ass off for having 0 nerfs with arguably the same or better dogfight performance
It was nerfed pretty significantly in the past, what are you talking about?
the yak141 doesnt even come close to the gripen brother
all current russian jets have nerfed flight models
It was highly predictable. Gripen was heavily overperforming on release. In order to increase popularity of sweden tree and make some money. Nothing personal, just business.
Shortened. Gaijin saw that the Ukrainian war of 2022 gave a massive bump on MiG23 ML sales (it really outsells the F-4s) and added an OP gripen as a distraction from the BS that is six r27er per russian 12.7 aircraft; to then nerf it once every month til it becomes r27er fodder like the rest of aircraft.
the ukraine war did not sell premiums lol, and the r27 cope dawg, litteraly just notch the radar, dont headon a su27, same with the f15
@@daftcow706 average su27 player
now complain that the r73 is worse than aim9m and that su27 sucks at 1v1.
we think the updates is this month? i thought they said like late/mid summer?
The nerfs on the flares are unrealistic but needed for now.
Why can’t they just move planes up in br instead of nerfing the hell out of the flight models?
F16 nerfs when?
Never because of freeaboos
@@lucarelli25_68No it’s because gaijin literally said themselves they can’t model it properly
There's an itty bitty F-16A nerf coming apparently, it's already been changed on dev
Get rid of the grippen A’s hmd it never had one get rid of it, also it shit ton of German aircraft have missles it never got
💀 so you want the gripen A at 12.0? With the same FM it has now. Sure go ahead 😂
Idk why Gripen players are yapping all over the table because a clearly overpowered aircraft gets nerfed: even the F14A wasn't as oppressive as the gripen rn because you could still kill it - but with the Gripen at low altitude and over 600 flares you are basically invincible to any missile whilst having the uncontested best flight performance at top tier. So you automatically win every 1 vs 1 situation even if the other player is actually better than you...
Honestly half the planes are nerfed without them bringing in stealth. But if they really did these planes true to life usa planes would have too much advantage. In reality half the Soviet planes you can't even see over the dash in real life. This game has gone way out of its way to make these planes equal. But in real life that's not the case. It also needs to bring in maintenance somehow. There's a massive different between all the planes that's a huge deal in real life but not in WT
If gaijin cares at all about top tier being remotely fun. Stealth will never come and possibly EW systems.
I cant wait when war thunder gets to modern age and people will complain that without stealth bvr the 39E/F cant be defeated in a 1v1.
Especially once we get EW in the game. The gripen E's EW suite is unrivaled amongst 4++ Gen fighters. EW + Meteor is gonna fuck this game up and you got IRIS-T in your back pocket if anyone is so bold as to get within 6-7 KMs of you
@jaxastro3072 You don't have any idea on what has the best EW suite or how effective any of them actually are.
4:26 6 months of gripen meta
Soviets *die of laughter with his years of being meta*
Imagine if anyone had a counter or a counterpart to a Pantsir
@@gansior4744the counter is more SEAD aka 4 F-16s
I mean it’s really just US USSR US USSR US SWEDEN USSR
So we are just gonna ignore the 3 years of USA meta?
@@gansior4744tf is Pantsir? Can’t remember such plane.
(I know what Pantsir is, i just can’t understand people who play “run to the corner of the map, sit there for the entire match and click one button as many times as you can” simulator (aka tank RB) and then complaining about mechanics/vehicles in TRB)🙃
The Gripen is my favorite jet currently in War Thunder and I wish they would stop nerfing it. I know I sound bias, but its a small light airframe with a good engine and canards...I mean, you would expect it to do well in dogfights and beat something like an F-15, Su-27. Until thrust vectoring gets put in the game I would expect the Gripen, Rafale and Eurofighter to be the top dogfighting jets when they get added. So I don't really get all these calls for nerfs. The meta is low to the ground furballs, of course missile busses will do bad and small nimble jets designed for maneuverability will do well.
They will nerf them into the ground. Britain and Franch can't have shit
These are warplanes. They’re not supposed to be balanced. Everyone is trying to break the edge over the next country. Don’t need planes simply for balance.
And it's a good thing they perform it, Gripped isn't as good as many ppl think it is
700 countermeasures?! What's the point even bothering to shoot a missile at it? Jesus. Meanwhile mig29 gets a whopping 80. Gotta love gaijin idea of balance 😂
yeah, it removes the whole idea of close range IR missiles or irccm completely since it has a 7 minute imunity timer with those. Can't dogfight it, can't missile it.
To be fair, radar slaving and firing from rear or side aspect does wonders for the 9M against flarespam
It's historical
@@icantsleepman yeah, and 9-12(12.0 mig29) carrying r-73 is also historical, doesn't change the fact that some things get added and some do not because the snail just is like that
@@icantsleepman who cares, it's a video game. If I want realistic I'll join the military. What I want is a FAIR and BALANCED game that everyone can enjoy and everyone has the same ability to win, or lose. This isn't a game, it's a who has the best shit wins simulator. Mig29 German at 12.0 gets no r73 only the 12.7 29g does. And dodging irccm missiles like the r73 and 9m isn't that hard if you know what you are doing ESPECIALLY if u have 700 counter measures. Get launch warning, cut engine, spam counter measures AND CHANGE DIRECTION. The seeker turns off while flares are active and flies in the direction it last saw u. If u change directions, when the seeker head turns back on your engine isn't there for it to see and it misses. If you rely on the flares but keep flying in same direction it will reacquire lock and kill you.
General lee the number 1 gripen hater. Waaah my f15 isnt dominating everyone and everything waaaah 😂
Wassup lee?
Yo cant wait to watch this 🙏 cant rn tho 😔
Next sale imma get the TAF and grind Italy (Hungary) for the mig29 and mayyyybe Gripen. Ik the TAF sucks but, fast + bombs = ez grind 🤷🏼♂️
70 dollar pencil go brrrr
Me just waiting for eurofighter
@@GeneralLee2000 that's me rn too. I'm just coping with the f4f ice😂
@@Migthunder OOF
Bruh I get the Griphen and weeks later it gets nerfed a bunch of times
*russian vehicle performs as stated on official sources* "NOOOOO, These animals are from the middle ages. you can't make them have something comparable to our alien tech"
*grippen performs better than all public statements and all jets currently in game* "Skill issue"
Stated in official sources? Bro, you are reading propaganda sale Brochure. MiG-23 according to "official data" Was dogfighting like a F-5, while IRL it was not able to compete with a Phantom. BVM, eating DM53 with a UFP, while getting destroyed by a Mango and Stugna in Ukraine. I would love a realistic interpretation, but Russian vehicles are just handheld and you cant change that. Ever wondered why one set of fragments ends at 120mm bracket, just to make Russian cannons fragment more by default, even though they have shorter and weaker penetrators. No, nothing strange to see here
@@gansior4744 literally what i said above lmao.
@@gansior4744 erm u are literally proving his point
Gripen: Has impressive Turnrate, is quite fast and has many aim9ls and countermeasures.
Me in my su27: Hehe, Radar missile go f-youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu*Boom*
Seriously this thing is not that good, missile load is bad, IR missiles are generally trash because every flare instantly voids it's utility and this things engine is atrociously bad. Yes it turns well cuz it's small and light but its radar sucks and it has bad missiles. So everything you need, aka good, reliable missiles and speed to get in and out of Engagements it lacks. It's not that good
FM's should be to the best of Gaijins ability be based on reality, Im not interested in arcade flightmodels at all. arcade exists for a reason.
It's not overpowered. It's straight up broken, like, completely
I honestly think all the Gripen nerfs after the third one are bullshit. An opinion from someone who has played this game since it practically launched and plays with several nations in the top tier. I can say that people complain a lot and the game is unfortunately being dominated by complaining newbie players. I agree with some changes that need to happen to flightmodels but you can't pull absolutely everything down just to "make it easier" for casual players. If the guy just dies, just try to be better... the amount of players I see just going straight and dying or just pressing "s" in simulation mode and hoping to win a dogfight is absurd... player skill should matter again more. The player who says he can't kill a Gripen in today's meta is the same one who says it's impossible to kill a zero with a p51. Airplanes have always had advantages over each other. well... just an opinion from a veteran watching the game's skill factor slowly die... and these fox 3 will only worsen this "skill factor" problem. But as always, we players will adapt
A) The game is a Semi-sim game, so some level of balancing is meant to be achieved.
B) The Grippen up until these coming changes is still the slipperiest plane to kill because it can abuse multipath easily, have enough flares to throw off every IR missile, and force a turn fight that it will win against multiple targets while having 9M's on an HMD to boot. For many planes, there was no realistic way of winning even if you were a pro and they were basic in their knowledge of how not to die in that.
C) Ah yes, a P-51 from the late 1943's and later going against a plane made in the mid 1930's and upgraded (barely) by 1942-3. . . Definitely a fair fight that is totally not skewed into one side winning of they have a brain. . . Definitely didn't have American mains complaining the Zero was "too good" when they threw their aircraft into a turn fight they COULD disengage from. . . Definitely not American skill issues
dude if someone tries to leak 5th gen documents they will disappear, surely nobody's that stupid right?
In 3 years after all the tweaks and nerfs the only difference the jets will have is visually, some jets are allowed to be better? They’ve been doing it for years why go all clinical with the balancing now?
Because something other than the big 3 have the best fucking plane for once
I bought the Hunter FGA.9 nearly 4 years ago now and all the way back when i bought it, it's been facing MiG-21s that completely outperform it in every sense of the word, with only luck to save you.
Not a single fucking mention of it ever in all four years. The fact that any MiG-21 fucking obliterate anything ESPECIALLY in downtiers (excluding the 10.3-7 MiGs at their own tier).
Hell if anything people were saying the MiG-21 was bad because "muh speed bleed" when that doesnt matter because almost anything below it cant outturn it at any speed anyways lmfao
Oh, and also, The F-5C. I don't think i need to explain that one.
But as soon as its not a russian or american plane thats some uncounterable autowin meta it's all this song and dance bullshit. Curious.
Now if only they unfucked the MiG-29 and Su-27 FMs and gave the MiG-29 (9-13) and Yak-141 R-73s while moving them to 12.3 and removing the MiG-29's R-27ERs. It's only fair now that the R-27ER is obsolete and the ARH gap is basically non-existant.
And also give the F-16A and F-16ADF aim-9ms yh?
One can dream about the mig-29 and Su-27 fix
I regret playing Russia it's so aids compared to everything else. OOHHHHH RUSSIAN BIAAAAAASS yea right
Yeah have to disagree with you. First they're giving Germany a very bad 12.7 fox3 carrier, then u think the r27er should go? You must really really hate German tree players. You can take our r27er after they add the typhoon to our tree, not one minute sooner.
@@TeamValkyrie2023 suffer with us
Welp, updates tomorrow. Sorry Lee, but you’re screwed
The Grippen getting nerfed sucks, period.
If they add the Eurofighter or the F-18/F-22, I might consider coming back to the game, but right now, it's boring as all hell
What happened to the mig23 nerf?
Coming with the next update! The FM change was live on dev
Nah, im glad it's getting nerfed, all evidence public available always points out the gripen should have 20° sustained turn rate, and 30° of instantaneous, but it's been over performing, we can't find any other bit of info saying it's able to sustain 21, 22, or even 23°, only one I've found that says it can sustain 23° was for the Gripen E, which we don't have in the game yet, so this nerf fits the aircrafts relatively realistic flight model keep in mind OF WHATS PUBLIC INFORMATION, so I hope we don't get players saying "but an article says the gripen is on par with the EF and Rafale in a dogfight" Yes the Gripen E, not the A and C, the nerf is justified in my opinion. Now aircraft like the 29's and F-16C's even the Flankers can compete with it now.
Also, I found public info that both the Rafale and Eurofighter have apparently 24° and 23° of sustained and 100° to 70° of instantaneous, I've also looked at irl footage of airshows for the instantaneous part, and it seems accurate, and as for sustained, I tried to find other sources but they don't mentioned anything of value to flight performance, and this info I found was from 4 different websites talking about those two aircraft as those websites try to compere the differences of them, all I can gareented is that both aircraft have a sustained above 22° and 80° of instantaneous, so we can at least expect that from both the EF and Rafale.
That's all I found and know.
PS: do take this info about the EF (EuroFighter) and Rafale info with a grain of salt as this is what many others have said and no actual flight data is public for obvious reasons.
gripen already underperform on paper idk what gaijin smoking
@@CruLisP oh what papers are you getting this info from? Because every other paper I find it says the max sustained the gripen A/C has 20° of sustained turn rate, 22° if pushed to higher speeds, so please tell me what for seen flight data papers you could have found that say otherwise, because keep in mind articles don't count as a good source.
Cope and skill issue lol. Least malding freeabo out there
Also i found a picture of you: 🤓
@filipkatila5511 aw well aren't you a pathetic little guy, look at how adorable you are, XD.
Come on Britain ain’t got nothing defining at top teir
They nerf the mirage they nerf the grippen. Whats with gaijin and nerfing minor nations . Especially the mirage like why cant france have a good homebrewed aircraft. I get its getting benelux however let em have a good jet.
Why are they nerfing it? It’s fine where it is
If its so hard to get real info on these planes please explain to me how on different games/sims we can get high fidelity flight models and avionics on planes and helis like F16CM Block 50, F18C, F15E, AH64D, Mirage 2000C (This one kinda old if compared to Mirage 2000 5F but mehh) , A10C II, some of those modules receiving extreme praise from retired and active military personnel.
Not to mention the miles better missile and radar characteristics on those games which is fucking insane to say since they have AIM9X Block 1 and AIM120C-5. The AIM9M and R73E in this disgrace of a game has a EXTREMELY retarded flare resistance and pull fucking insanely more than what they should 70% of the time.
Gaijin is just fucking lazy, the only thing they have to get right is the fucking flight model and they cant even do THAT.
DCS also has flawed FMs for its aircrafts. It's not as bad as wt, but there are a lot of cases for couple of degrees per second missing here and there.
Also nowadays wt does way better job at modeling CCM on missiles. DCS just calculates a chances for the ir missile to get distracted in different circumstances, so putting enough flares in the air solves any problem. Wt at least tries to model things like that correctly (not to say that DCS is bad, it's a great game, but isn't perfect by any mean)
Grippy Wippy Stay Winning. Cope Harder Grippy Hater
To the person who said first
Womp womp
Not looking good for when the euro fighters come
😭poor su27
You'll be fine since u still have 8 missiles and a radar that seems to track and hold lock on low altitude targets better than any other top tier jet. If u are trying to turn fight dogfight in it, you are playing it wrong.
@TeamValkyrie2023 "playing it wrong" irl it's literally one of the best dogfighters ever built. Gaijin have massively butchered its flight performance
@@TeamValkyrie2023 it has a 2.5x drag nerf to the flight model, a f15 and f14 can dogfight it, its a missile bus, and the radar is very easy to notch if you arent braindead
*Gajin adds the most manouverable fighter jet ever made*
(Suprised pikachu face) "Gripen is too op"
Meanwhile sweden and britain stans still trying to explain their 5 times as high as usual KD in this plane by saying "it just clicked with me"
It's not OP warthunder players just can't conceive of not trying to turn fight everything
I MUST TURN
Because it's all about kills. If you play properly maintaining energy, chances are your target is gonna be killed by your teammates and you get nothing. It's turn, burn, lock, and fire. That's the grind cycle.
whatchu gonna do about it? turn your back and try to run away? its top tier bro, missiles are faster.
You HAVE to turn, else fox2 up your engine
Try to extend at top tier? Bait used to be believable.
Baby plane nerf? I will be there no matter what.
no more fake FMs, plz
Only fake FMs from this point on. Stuff is too classified and even if you have it gaijin won't use it.
@@NineSeptims well the answer is dont add it then kekW
"This patch is going to be huge for air" for literally 2 BRs worth of the tech tree. This is one of the emptiest and least worth playing updates in War thunder's entire history
Fixing the clearly flawed gameplay loop ❎
Nerf a plane because the algorithm said so ✅
Substitute 'Algorithm' with 'content creator's'
It's not because of the algorithm people are trying to getting nerfed with the info they can find and give to gaijin to support their claim as to why it's over performing, which btw from all public sources found they all say the gripen is over performing, this new nerf should put it to very close irl sustained turn rates.
@@WOLFER. This just prove my point that gaijin only listen to their algorithms, being that the algorithm says gripen is overperforming that they finally nerfing it down while the community said it was long before that.
And i also believe that bad gameplay loop play a big part on this problem that has been plaguing warthunder since the first launch of mig 15, when amraam drop f15 going to be "overperforming" because the amount of missiles it can carry.
A gameplay where it demand all the plane that is not a dogfighter to be good at dogfighting is not a good gameplay when others type of plane exists in the game.
It's a fundamental problem with warthunder, not just because "this plane is not supposed to be ____" type of problem
@@banyanyas839 your point wasnt made because if you go to the forums people provide evidence they found that made the gripen get nerfed, instead of putting the blame on the "algorithm" do the research and if you cna provide any publicly available non classified info to prove the gripne doesnt deserve the nerf then please, go report it to the forums instead of complaining that the aircraft is getting nerfed.
@@WOLFER. I think you're missing my point here, what i point out is that not that gripen doesn't deserve the nerf my point is gaijin only care because the algorithm says it's overperforming.
The blatant prove of this is su11, that plane is overpowered in its respective BR but gaijin didn't neef that because it doesn't necessarily overperforming according to their algorithms, because the plane is overpowered but hard to play with.
There is a group of people taking a objectively bad plane and doing so good with it the algorithm say that the plane is overperforming in it's BR and what do you know the next update the plane got uptiered.
This problems has been plaguing warthunder since ages ago, and the bad gameplay loop is contributing to this aswell, that's why i said instead of improving the gameplay so more plane could get a deserving chance they just take the easy way and nerf "overpowered" plane according to their algorithms.
And then again im not saying gripen doesn't deserve its nerf, hell I didn't even know gripen doesn't have accurate performance to begin with im just saying instead of fixing the gameplay they just take the easy way and just nerf things even when sometimes a plane that doesn't deserve to be nerf
6th one coming?
5th one I think, I'm not sure 😅
so nato plane never will get into meta must be russian
The grippen has only need like its first nerf everything after that has pretty much just been everyone complaining because they cant handle the 1v1 and get dunked on in the missle slinging furrball
As a person that has talked to a us engineer that has been in a gripen and has worked on it its underperforming just a bunch of kids that complain about the game and notice how bad they are interesting to see how the euro and rafle turn out to be 😂
Just a quick point and I’m getting sick talking to people about “balance” in warthunder, you cannot balance based off realism, real life is a situation of nations and technology repeatedly leapfrogging each other to get ahead. The BR system is supposed to be the solution to this but it’s horrendously out of date and mismanaged. People and Gaijin need to pick one and stick to it! Realism or Balance, a game or a half assed simulator (this game is not a sim).
Gripen is still the best aircraft in game
Hysterical take
That remains to be seen, personally my bet is on the F-15J(M) being the best next update.
@@GeneralLee2000 doesnt it currently have weaker engines than the previous one?
@@jansatamme6521 yes but it's lighter than the C while having better IR missiles and at minimum equal radar missiles (depends on if they fix the AAM-4, AMRAAM may be better but it has it too) and possibly getting MAWS too
A video game shouldn't be based on realism. If someone beats me using "the best vehicle in the game" that's not skill, that's "I have better shit than you so you're wasting your time playing this game unless you go spend money".
why nerf cuz FPS gamers cant hack it ?? dang Br cry babys all of em