Improve is an assumption. There is a reason you can easily sync a full bitcoin node but not an Ethereum node…mostly because all of the “improvements” Ethereum has made over bitcoin have been rejected.
I believe that that kind of attitude has benefitted Bitcoin as well. They don't want to mess anything up and that's understandable. Bitcoin is not Ethereum and it doesn't have to be.
As always, a great analysis. Newcomers often wonder if it's too late to navigate the financial market, but the market is always unpredictable. Trading has more advantages than simply holding, so it's important to learn before diving in. Active trades are necessary to ride the market's waves. Thanks to Flora Elkin’s insights, daily trade signals, and my dedication to learning, I've been increasing my daily earnings, managed to grow a nest egg of around 127k to a decent 532k. Kudos to the journey ahead!
It is really refreshing to see a comment about Flora Elkin.I have worked with her also for months now, reached out after reading more about her on the internet. she simplifies matters, whether it's a market surge or drop; her approach consistently keeps you ahead of the trend, She's a guru i'll say
Working with her has been a game-changer for my financial well-being. Her ability to simplify complex financial concepts and provide tailored solutions is commendable. Flora’s passion for her work shines through, making the financial planning process not only effective but also enjoyable.
I think the Bitcoin only money ppl have their life savings in Bitcoin and don’t want ppl fking with it which is understandable. Introducing possible bugs and potential for ppl to lose money because they will 100% not rollback.
Right. And you’ve painted the dilemma perfectly. If they don’t change, then the chain dies a sclerotic death as they fail to pay for enough mining to keep it secure. And if they do change, there’s the risk of bugs. But now they are too far along. Too much VC money to be lost. The time to implement changes was 6 or 8 years ago, like everyone told them. It’s fairly easy to argue that the chain is doomed, longer term. Why ? Because the burden of proof lies with the supporters - they must demonstrate that the network can raise, at minimum, $20 Million per day in fees. And if it can’t be demonstrated, then it follows logically that security weakens each Halving until it can no longer fend off attacks.
'Why can't we have both? Excellent question! Because Nick already knows the fate of those who push with rash, unwanted changes to BTC. They end up as Roger Ver and Craig Wright. His path is also leading there.
I will be forever grateful to you, you changed my entire life and I will continue to preach on your behalf for the whole world to hear you saved me from huge financial debt with just a small investment, thank you Katherine Flores.
Wow. I'm a bit perplexed seeing her been mentioned here also Didn’t know she has been good to so many people too this is wonderful, I'm in my fifth trade with her and it has been super.
She is my family's personal broker and also a personal broker in many families I'm United States, she's a licensed broker and a FINRA AGENT in United states.
Not only has LN not succeed as hoped, it CANNOT! Sunk costs are exactly that - sunk -- move on boys. Stacks, Alex, Arkadiko, Bitflow, Trac, Tap -- These are low market caps with developed tech on BTC blockchain that will be worth billions this cycle. Join the party
Yup. But won’t these L2’s quickly hit the brick wall of L1 capacity ? The data throughput is still limited. Improvement ? For sure. But now we take a 7 TPS network and turn it into, say, a 300-400 TPS network. Still woefully uncompetitive. Still very expensive, slow, without Finality. In a silo, perhaps 6 to 8 years ago - we’d have had a go-to-market product. But 6-8 years from now, when people & institutions have been operating on very fast networks, offering more security, higher throughput, future scaling, infinitesimal fees - how can they be convinced to switch back to dial-up ? What’s the offering ? Especially when - if these new L2’s can’t succeed in raising say $20 Million per day to keep the L1 secure - leaving the future health of the network forever under doubt …. How do you sell that product ?
@@SquareRootOfMinus1 Hey 'i', I don't fully understand the tech challenges on the BTC blockchain as I'm not familiar enough with the dev stack(s) -- So I can only address your insightful concerns in general terms -- I feel BTC is & will always be unique for many reasons, but specifically because BTC will become the global valuation currency & will always remain POW with ~ 10min block times.... So if L2's are always somewhat limited by the limitations of L1, then the applications that survive and thrive on BTC will be valued for their liquidity & security, and perhaps because of the novelty of the network... and not for their transaction throughput. So L2's will flourish on BTC and we will be left with some core financial apps & liquidity pools that will have their own value proposition in spite of the limitations you mention. In the short term, there is a lot of innovation happening & its a great place to build, invest, & speculate
Store of values don’t need technological innovation. If the network is secure, open to everyone and country neutral, people will use it. Bitcoin should not operate like a software company.
49:14 David is totally in Touch with the Bitcoin culture. Listen to the BitVM episode and David asks if the Bitcoiners would be good with the security assumption of 1 of N.
He and the a whole topic is a dead horse from segwit 2017. Nobody needs Roger's opinion. Roger has only one opinion that Bitcoin Cash is the real BTC. NO!!
@@davidSYcho Don't care I believe in multi coins. I'm not a BTC maxie. BTC is digital gold, let the other coins handle the rest. Folks that believe in only BTC sounds stupid and crazy like telling the world only FORD should make cars.
Building on Bitcoin is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I don't understand why resources are still trying to go down that road... If you want to build and improve, we have a blockchain for that called Ethereum.
I am worried about short-termism like these VC people or devs ruin the core value proposition. You cannot keep adding fun features or contents to entertain users unless solving trilemma. Crypto killer use case stablecoin happens on Tron not Ethereum. Because Ethereum failed to solve trilemma. Tron is highly centralized, which entails tail risks. And now Ethreum try to further lose its core value proposition - composability. There exists this kind of failure in many domains. Another example is Ledger. Adding unnecessary feature lose user confidence.
If BTC is going to be a decentralized payments system it needs to somehow create optimized "silos" for the other functionalities be it on side chains with zk proofs or whatever. It can't be everything to everyone at the base level, and there should be efforts to make things like ordinals better, and easier, but distinctly independent of the core functionality (beyond being secured by BTC proof-of-work). That's the only way I see that you don't break BTC as a currency, or break the other functionality down the line, like trying to send trains toward each other on the same rail- you need a second rail or something to avoid collisions.
' If BTC is going to be a decentralized payments system...' To me it seems obvious that this will never be the case & I'm not sure what the motivation is for those who continue to pursue this. It seems highly probably BTC will become the global currency by which other assets are valued. And for this specific reason & given its fixed supply, no one will want to spend BTC -- Other networks & other currencies will be used for payments -- BTC will be used for store of value, speculation, investment, & lending.
It's just fundamentally too slow to scale effectively even with L2/Zk tech and it's impossible to release anything other than the current consensus. It's basically a guaranteed fork (look into maxi's like Tone Veys threatening miners with 'soft forks' if they take up any non-consensus client)
Just look at the price of BTC vs ETH, it tells the big story. As Peter Thiel talked, BTC doesn’t compete with ETH in the same field. One is global store of value and potentially evolving to global reserve money. One is maybe competing in Defi, as Cathie wood says, facing competition with Solana. I don’t see why people keep comparing ETH with BTC, they should instead compare ETH with Solana.
Every blockchain becomes a software company as many are in reality, just masquerading to be decentralised and all that stuff the moment they start behaving like one.
also, btc being the store of value use case, the digital gold, it literally doesn't need anything else - it's value lies in its simplicity and laser focus.
Bitcoin maxis can be so rude but so obscure and technical. Why can’t they just say: you’re too stupid to see why alt coins are, in the long run, just a joke at your expense. Is it that hard?
This is why decred was created because these disagreements on the direction of BTC have no design to aid solving the decision through a pre design. That's what decred has and the tech stack is huge and getting bigger all the time
David - I wish you, or any other podcaster, would push back on weak claims. At least the most egregious ones. 1:07:13 “People don’t transact in gold very often.” Of course. But what happens to the Gold if all holders just quietly sit on their stacks ? Nothing. What happens if most people quietly sit on their BTC without transacting? It dies. If BTC can’t generate massive amounts of Tx Fees, miners leave. Network security weakens. The chain cannot fend off an attack. This is elementary. Gold does not care if you transact with it. Bitcoin absolutely cares. It’s the very essence of its security. If blocks are not completely full, every day of every month, with very expensive transactions, then the chain weakens. And eventually fails. If everyone puts Gold in cold storage, it just sits there til the end of time. If everyone puts their BTC coins in cold storage, the chain dies.
If you Don't know Nic you should look into him, bit of a bitcoin OG. He just got ousted when some realised that he wasn't a maximalist. Huge respect for that guy though. On the Brink is an excellent pod.
Bankless making too many videos about Bitcoin lately. Ethereum maxi’s making videos about bitcoin and talking about bitcoin always has a negative connotation.
I hold btc but im not "inside" the culture. The fact that so many there seem to hate any type of proposal to improve btc is truly baffling
Because any unintended mistake can fuck up the whole network. Fuck ups on eth or anything else are not a huge deal
Improve is an assumption. There is a reason you can easily sync a full bitcoin node but not an Ethereum node…mostly because all of the “improvements” Ethereum has made over bitcoin have been rejected.
Just don’t f it up
I believe that that kind of attitude has benefitted Bitcoin as well. They don't want to mess anything up and that's understandable. Bitcoin is not Ethereum and it doesn't have to be.
Bitcoin is perfect as it is.
As always, a great analysis. Newcomers often wonder if it's too late to navigate the financial market, but the market is always unpredictable. Trading has more advantages than simply holding, so it's important to learn before diving in. Active trades are necessary to ride the market's waves. Thanks to Flora Elkin’s insights, daily trade signals, and my dedication to learning, I've been increasing my daily earnings, managed to grow a nest egg of around 127k to a decent 532k. Kudos to the journey ahead!
It is really refreshing to see a comment about Flora Elkin.I have worked with her also for months now, reached out after reading more about her on the internet. she simplifies matters, whether it's a market surge or drop; her approach consistently keeps you ahead of the trend, She's a guru i'll say
Working with her has been a game-changer for my financial well-being. Her ability to simplify complex financial concepts and provide tailored solutions is commendable. Flora’s passion for her work shines through, making the financial planning process not only effective but also enjoyable.
Scammer
...you dont own any bitcoin? (Record scratch)
Exactly !!!
I think the Bitcoin only money ppl have their life savings in Bitcoin and don’t want ppl fking with it which is understandable. Introducing possible bugs and potential for ppl to lose money because they will 100% not rollback.
Right. And you’ve painted the dilemma perfectly.
If they don’t change, then the chain dies a sclerotic death as they fail to pay for enough mining to keep it secure.
And if they do change, there’s the risk of bugs. But now they are too far along. Too much VC money to be lost.
The time to implement changes was 6 or 8 years ago, like everyone told them.
It’s fairly easy to argue that the chain is doomed, longer term. Why ?
Because the burden of proof lies with the supporters - they must demonstrate that the network can raise, at minimum, $20 Million per day in fees.
And if it can’t be demonstrated, then it follows logically that security weakens each Halving until it can no longer fend off attacks.
correct.. "go slow and don't break anything"
Bitcoin doesn’t need Etherium…
etherium needs bitcoin !!!
Great conversation!
Wen ordinals mint exclusively for Bankless citizens? 🖼️ 🤔
'Why can't we have both? Excellent question! Because Nick already knows the fate of those who push with rash, unwanted changes to BTC. They end up as Roger Ver and Craig Wright. His path is also leading there.
I will be forever grateful to you, you changed my entire life and I will continue to preach on your behalf for the whole world to hear you saved me from huge financial debt with just a small investment, thank you Katherine Flores.
Wow. I'm a bit perplexed seeing her been mentioned here also Didn’t know she has been good to so many people too this is wonderful, I'm in my fifth trade with her and it has been super.
She is my family's personal broker and also a personal broker in many families I'm United States, she's a licensed broker and a FINRA AGENT in United states.
Really you people know her? I was even thinking that I'm the only one she has helped walk through the fears and falls of trading.
I'm new at this, please how can I reach her?
I was skeptical at first till I decided to try. Its huge returns is awesome. I can't say much
Not only has LN not succeed as hoped, it CANNOT! Sunk costs are exactly that - sunk -- move on boys. Stacks, Alex, Arkadiko, Bitflow, Trac, Tap -- These are low market caps with developed tech on BTC blockchain that will be worth billions this cycle. Join the party
Yup. But won’t these L2’s quickly hit the brick wall of L1 capacity ?
The data throughput is still limited. Improvement ? For sure. But now we take a 7 TPS network and turn it into, say, a 300-400 TPS network.
Still woefully uncompetitive. Still very expensive, slow, without Finality.
In a silo, perhaps 6 to 8 years ago - we’d have had a go-to-market product.
But 6-8 years from now, when people & institutions have been operating on very fast networks, offering more security, higher throughput, future scaling, infinitesimal fees - how can they be convinced to switch back to dial-up ?
What’s the offering ?
Especially when - if these new L2’s can’t succeed in raising say $20 Million per day to keep the L1 secure - leaving the future health of the network forever under doubt ….
How do you sell that product ?
@@SquareRootOfMinus1 Hey 'i', I don't fully understand the tech challenges on the BTC blockchain as I'm not familiar enough with the dev stack(s) -- So I can only address your insightful concerns in general terms -- I feel BTC is & will always be unique for many reasons, but specifically because BTC will become the global valuation currency & will always remain POW with ~ 10min block times.... So if L2's are always somewhat limited by the limitations of L1, then the applications that survive and thrive on BTC will be valued for their liquidity & security, and perhaps because of the novelty of the network... and not for their transaction throughput.
So L2's will flourish on BTC and we will be left with some core financial apps & liquidity pools that will have their own value proposition in spite of the limitations you mention. In the short term, there is a lot of innovation happening & its a great place to build, invest, & speculate
Sovryn too
Store of values don’t need technological innovation. If the network is secure, open to everyone and country neutral, people will use it.
Bitcoin should not operate like a software company.
49:14 David is totally in Touch with the Bitcoin culture. Listen to the BitVM episode and David asks if the Bitcoiners would be good with the security assumption of 1 of N.
Outstanding conversation.Thank you both. I m going to look up Nic’s work. My ideas and thoughts resonates with his perfectly
You should bring Roger Ver on the pod for a different perspective on the block size wars
He and the a whole topic is a dead horse from segwit 2017. Nobody needs Roger's opinion. Roger has only one opinion that Bitcoin Cash is the real BTC. NO!!
@@mykalq1MK lightning doesn't work
@@davidSYcho Don't care I believe in multi coins. I'm not a BTC maxie. BTC is digital gold, let the other coins handle the rest. Folks that believe in only BTC sounds stupid and crazy like telling the world only FORD should make cars.
Roger doesn't argue fairly. He obfuscates and twists issues when facts are not convenient. I can't stand listening to him.
@@mykalq1MK you think Roger is a Bitcoin maxi? He’s definitely not as he likes other coins besides BCH
Building on Bitcoin is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I don't understand why resources are still trying to go down that road... If you want to build and improve, we have a blockchain for that called Ethereum.
I am worried about short-termism like these VC people or devs ruin the core value proposition. You cannot keep adding fun features or contents to entertain users unless solving trilemma. Crypto killer use case stablecoin happens on Tron not Ethereum. Because Ethereum failed to solve trilemma. Tron is highly centralized, which entails tail risks. And now Ethreum try to further lose its core value proposition - composability. There exists this kind of failure in many domains. Another example is Ledger. Adding unnecessary feature lose user confidence.
Like he said, he doesn't give a shit about the future, he only gives a shit about right now and how he can invest and make money off of it.
For all your recent flaws, I love that you keep the door open for guests like these. An amazing taproot wizard, I'm sure the episode will be great
Nic hold the #1 spot as most times appeared in a bankless episodes… I could be wrong tho…
@@PatrickAyelle #2 according to david but gunning for that top spot
@@nic9456 either way... your star will continue to rise.
Nic was polite enough not to ask David why he owns NO bitcoin, but I have to say its a head-scratcher. Inquiring minds want to know!
Bitcoin doesn’t need any shitcoin… Shitcoins need Bitcoin…
If BTC is going to be a decentralized payments system it needs to somehow create optimized "silos" for the other functionalities be it on side chains with zk proofs or whatever. It can't be everything to everyone at the base level, and there should be efforts to make things like ordinals better, and easier, but distinctly independent of the core functionality (beyond being secured by BTC proof-of-work). That's the only way I see that you don't break BTC as a currency, or break the other functionality down the line, like trying to send trains toward each other on the same rail- you need a second rail or something to avoid collisions.
' If BTC is going to be a decentralized payments system...' To me it seems obvious that this will never be the case & I'm not sure what the motivation is for those who continue to pursue this. It seems highly probably BTC will become the global currency by which other assets are valued. And for this specific reason & given its fixed supply, no one will want to spend BTC -- Other networks & other currencies will be used for payments -- BTC will be used for store of value, speculation, investment, & lending.
It's just fundamentally too slow to scale effectively even with L2/Zk tech and it's impossible to release anything other than the current consensus. It's basically a guaranteed fork (look into maxi's like Tone Veys threatening miners with 'soft forks' if they take up any non-consensus client)
Just look at the price of BTC vs ETH, it tells the big story. As Peter Thiel talked, BTC doesn’t compete with ETH in the same field. One is global store of value and potentially evolving to global reserve money. One is maybe competing in Defi, as Cathie wood says, facing competition with Solana. I don’t see why people keep comparing ETH with BTC, they should instead compare ETH with Solana.
Arbitrary Data is completely unnecessary on the bitcoin blockchain…
Every blockchain becomes a software company as many are in reality, just masquerading to be decentralised and all that stuff the moment they start behaving like one.
ess team, after your deep dive on the Second Bitcoin Civil War, could you explore Long Dragon's $LD? Their approach to DeFi could be revolutionary!
Too little disagreement in these conversations lately. Now get a purist on and let’s hear their PoV.
also, btc being the store of value use case, the digital gold, it literally doesn't need anything else - it's value lies in its simplicity and laser focus.
Lol bitcoiner but doesn’t own any bitcoin. Ok guy.
Bitcoin maxis can be so rude but so obscure and technical. Why can’t they just say: you’re too stupid to see why alt coins are, in the long run, just a joke at your expense. Is it that hard?
Love the channel, thanks for everything!
This show is a “pro shitcoin”show… masked as pro bitcoin !!!
Excellent talk, stay Sovryn
Awesome episode. thank you.
imagine people who are so smart when they see p2p cash they are able to read p2p spam.
This is why decred was created because these disagreements on the direction of BTC have no design to aid solving the decision through a pre design.
That's what decred has and the tech stack is huge and getting bigger all the time
Thanks to the guest for speaking not as if you're reading a riddle 😅
Fork it, change it and play with it as you see fit 🤷♂️
Have you explored how Tectum is tackling Bitcoin's scale issues with Softnote? It could be a game-changer like $TET!
They can do the same on litecoin
Nic is a wonderfully bizarre weirdo
Doesn't own Bitcoin? Shameful. Everyone in the industry should own even a symbolic amount of Bitcoin.
David - I wish you, or any other podcaster, would push back on weak claims. At least the most egregious ones.
1:07:13 “People don’t transact in gold very often.”
Of course.
But what happens to the Gold if all holders just quietly sit on their stacks ?
Nothing.
What happens if most people quietly sit on their BTC without transacting?
It dies.
If BTC can’t generate massive amounts of Tx Fees, miners leave. Network security weakens. The chain cannot fend off an attack.
This is elementary.
Gold does not care if you transact with it.
Bitcoin absolutely cares.
It’s the very essence of its security. If blocks are not completely full, every day of every month, with very expensive transactions, then the chain weakens. And eventually fails.
If everyone puts Gold in cold storage, it just sits there til the end of time.
If everyone puts their BTC coins in cold storage, the chain dies.
Nic carter ❤
Bitcoiners own bitcoin
How can you have a podcast about crypto currency and name it Bankless and not even own one Satoshi? I unsubscribed from your channel.
Is nic carter actually a shitcoiner ? While @ th same time, claiming he dedicated his life 2 Bitcoin ?
Dash… yet another Shitcoin…
Nic is a tool
Don’t know the invitee, but the host is a declared “not a fan of” Bitcoin and doesn’t hold any Bitcoin. => the episode can only be biased.
Maxi please
If you Don't know Nic you should look into him, bit of a bitcoin OG. He just got ousted when some realised that he wasn't a maximalist. Huge respect for that guy though. On the Brink is an excellent pod.
You guys are so wrong about btc
Bankless making too many videos about Bitcoin lately.
Ethereum maxi’s making videos about bitcoin and talking about bitcoin always has a negative connotation.
Man this guy really misses the whole point, huh?
This dude doesn’t even own any bitcoin and saying there’s a bitcoin civil war…
How would you describe the divide between the those trying to scale the use and hence adoption of bitcoin, and those trying to ossify the chain?