where do you buy your styrene? i used to buy it at my university but since i graduated i cant buy from them and i havent been able to find affordable styrene anywhere
Hey Bill, it's been a while since vacuuforming for me (worked at a sign company). A little tip: at the end of the vacuum draw, if there are some imperfections where the vacuum didn't pull all the plastic, use a heat gun to reheat the plastic as the vacuum continues to draw. That should fix it.
Although you are heating the plastic (to be formed), you also need to heat up the area around the form and vacuum table. As soon as the hot plastic hits the cold form and table it quickly looses heat and looses detail, thus the webbing around the bottom of the mould. Use an infrared bulb (or two) over the vacuum table to preheat the bed and form.
2 years later and this video is still worth it. For your heater( you may have solved this long ago), I volunteered once building an Open 60 sailboat, they used prepregged carbon fibre/epoxy. The autoclave they built covered the whole boat and they used refective styrofoam panels with minimal wood framing. Worked like a charm! Loved the video and the trouble shooting process. Thank you!
That was kind of difficult to watch. Several years ago (~40 years) I set up a vacuum forming operation for a company that used thousands of parts made on vacuum form machines. Seeing you struggling with starting from scratch to build a vacuum forming machine was hard to watch. All of the things that didn't work, and needed to be fixed, were very common when you're first learning about vacuum forming. I was glad to see you finally pulled a successful batch of parts. Good luck on your continued adventures in vacuum forming from the ground up. A good, wholesome video you made. It showed the good, the bad, and the ugly of starting to learn a new skill set.
This was actually very handy for me as im a younger diesel mechanic and i have loads of tools and this was a perfect way for me to make custom tool organizers for all of my tools even the oddball ones i own and so far its working perfect i just used black plastic and it was slightly thicker for durability. I also made a couple tool trays for a couple other guys in the shop and they love it so far! Great idea. Been trying to solve this problem for a while!
best video Ive ever seen on how to make a vacuum forming table . It seems like most people treat them like its a secret or something they show the end result but no details on how to do it thanks.
Dope! I love how you showed your trials and errors, and talked through the various issues and possible solutions, etc. Super cool to see the realistic process, and appreciative that the time you put in will save us time when we take this project on. Thanks!!
I’ve started keeping a log of all my vacuform pulls: time, temperature, material used, that sort of thing. It makes it easier to keep track of what works well, and what doesn’t- especially what doesn’t.
I very much like the build! I'm moving soon and will finally have room for one in my new workshop space. Something we used to do a place I worked was put carpet padding under the master which let it pull vacuum all around. If there's a few more dollars to throw at the project instead of aluminum foil to line the box you could get a roll of Reflectix- it's great stuff and you'll bake the plastic in no time! You'll lose a LOT less heat. Also you could tape off unused areas and make a smaller vacuum area on the table to use with a smaller frame. Multiple tables in one.
Hey Bill. Just one critique for you. MDF is porous (you can actually pull a vacuum through it) so you're probably losing a lot of your vacuum potential to the underside of the table. Just give the bottom and the sides a coat of polyurethane and that will seal it right up. Good luck!
You are absolutely incorrect, MDF is extremely porous and will not hold a vacuum, try to make a vacuum camber with an MDF lid, you will find out how porous MDF really is.
A couple tips from an aerospace tool maker / metal worker ... now retired. I am making these while watching the video so if you address something after I say it, good on you for seeing something and taking care of it! When cutting angle to make a frame, esp alum, simply notch the top there is no need to cut all the way down the sides, you just cut a "triangle" out of the top and bend the sides, less work and a stronger frame results. Tap magic... unless it is specifically for Alum, is not to be used on alum. There is a chemical reaction with the chloronated fluid and alum, bad things result. Center punching is good, nice work. Interesting use of window hardware! 1,2,3 blocks are GREAT to use for quick measurements! Those heaters should be radiant heat so if you made a closed box and made it deeper IE more distance between the heater and the plastic, you should get a wider pattern of heat. A heat GUN can be used to spot heat for better detail under vacuum. . In addition, a cover over the plastic will also hold the heat in, without a cover you have a large radiating surface. Over all score I would give it a 9.5 out of 10. Nice job!
Nice work. I watched a vacuum form machine work. The big difference is the heat is kept on even as the vacuum is pulled to completion. The heaters were above the plastic and lowered evenly using cables and pulleys.
When casting its a good idea to pull past the object. It gets rid of the webbing ruining the result and means it can be cut off. Either be able pull past the table height or raise the master via a stand. Idk if im making any sense. Also I love the scifi panel idea.
Great build, great video. I haven't built one of these, I'm not an expert at this and I don't play on on TV, but I did think of a couple of suggestions ... here is just one. It's a bit complex, but not so much if you plan the build around it from the start: For the heater box: 1) Cut a slot in one side, about 1-inch down from the top, and for the full width of the box (yes, this would cut through your hinges but it could be planned for in a new build. The height of the slot should be about, but a little bit bigger than 1/4 inch, but see step 5 to plan the slot dimension. 2) Next cut 2 strips of wood, say 3/8 or 1/2 inch (square in cross-section), and as long as the inside dimension of the box. 3) Attach these 2 strips of wood inside the box, on the 2 sides adjacent to the side where you cut the slot, about 1-inch down from the top of the box. The top of the strips should be even with the bottom edge of the slot you cut, in step-1. 4) Optionally, an additional similar strip of wood could be attached in a similar way to the remaining side (the side opposite to the slot). 5) Prepare a piece of wood (Plywood, MDF, Masonite, ...). Logically this would be made of the same material as the material used for the box. The thickness will be 1/4 inch, but this piece of wood has to fit into the slot cut in step-1, so if using a thicker piece of wood, the height of the slot cut in step-1 needs to match. The width of this wood needs to be lightly smaller (narrower) than the inside dimension of the box. The length needs to be about 1 inch longer than the inside dimension of the box. 6) Optionally, cut a strip of the same material, about 1 inch wide, and the length of the box. Mount this strip about 1/2 inch above the slot, using a continuous hinge, or a few individual hinges, or interlocking screw-eyes and hooks. This piece should swing (pivot) to block or allow access to the slot. 7) Insert the piece of wood cut in step-5 into the slot and push it all the way in, until it touches the opposite side of the box. This piece will be a "lid/cover" that you slide in or out as needed. Now, when you use the heat-box, you can pre-heat the box, then place your framed plastic sheet on top, and slide the cover out, and you have full instant heat.
Three things: 1: Use insulation around the box to decrease heat loss. 2: Add a plastic mirror (45 degree angle) to the bottom so you don't have to squat down for the IR Sensors. 3: Blow an air chuck into your form to release it.
Instead of the steel mesh, you use for the vacuum system, stick the pipes just like you would make a floor heating system. but group the above holes and place the pipes, one pipeline every 4-5 rows. also, join the pipes in each group into a single pipe. then fill between the pipes with a filling material such as silicone, liquid plastic, plaster or epoxy. After it hardens, remove the pipes. so you will have pipelines distributed into groups from a single pipe inlet. In this way, you vacuum the air in a controlled and equal amount. You put a lot of effort into making this video. Thank you for keeping us informed.
Great video! I loved watching the struggle and troubleshooting you did. It's nice to know that it is okay to not get it right the first time, and make adjustments when needed.
I’m glad to see you making something that’s not perfect. Designing as you go is how many of us do things, we try one thing, and if it doesn’t work, we try to think of a better way. I think an imperfect build video is very inspiring.
What a fun project! For the platen I would've done away with the mesh and added a ring on the elbow as a stop so that it doesn't go all the way to the top. This allows for a higher CFM since there's less air resistance. The other change would be to make your "oven" shorter so that there is less volume for the heaters to heat up alleviating some lost heat calories. Otherwise, great build :D
@@dolfinmagikpro That was my first thought but you would probably want to get yourself an old or replacement oven fan. Catch being that most of the heat is radiant heat from the heat elements so your really only blowing around the secondary heat (from the plastic). Which is also why the "10 min preheat" probably isnt doing a lot. If you sit under those heaters its hot when they are on and cold when they are not but they dont really heat a room very well only surfaces they shine their light on. If you really wanted to spread the heat out changing the curve of the reflector would be the answer although probably a real pain. Making the curve shallower would enable the IR light to spread out more giving a more even heat but the foil box is probably doing similarly assuming you are far enough away with the box height. A V shape of mylar would probably give the profile you are looking for with the reflective box the rabbit hole is never ending. Those heaters are built to focus heat and that isnt really what you want but "modification is the mother of invention" or some such.
Why not use Mylar faced styro-insulation boards for the wall material? dual purpose as it would insulate better and reflect any radiant heat back to the center of the box. Just a thought :)
Great job! You'll get even better definition if you heat the negative with a heat gun or blow dryer. It will help negate some thermal diffusion from the plastic to the negative.
Instead of bolting the aluminum frame together, using some 'low temp aluminum braising rods' would create a joint stronger than tig welded aluminum. and only needs a plumbing blowtorch. as a bonus it will also fill in any imperfections for those who do not have a metal band saw. There are several you tube videos showing how to use it.
wow. I never knew about this. I've been a tig welder a long time and always recommend welding as a last resort. There are so many ways to join things without distorting them like welding has the potential to do. Thanks for the tip on the deal.
Couple of thoughts on the machine, As far as tripping breakers stuff usually draws the most amps at start up so doing what you did and starting one at a time is a good idea and point to make. I think the real thing with the overhead heater not liking life was the large gaps on top. If you had closed the top gaps and do aluminum tape on the inside I bet it would of worked. Also you might want to think about getting on of those foot on/off switchs for the vac
Regarding heat. It rises and will always try to equalise. Life can be hard enough without fighting nature too.... Underside heaters and good insulation is definitely the way to go.
For mechanical connections that are going to go through a lot of movement, like the bolts holding the frame together, it doesn't hurt to put a little Locktite on the bolts so that it won't work its way loose over time. If you're concerned about being able to disassemble it later, use the blue kind. It'll do the job, and if you ever need to disassemble it, it'll come loose with a little force.
This was going to be my comment also, it's common sense that each second that passes the plastic is hardening! Anyway, must rush - I'm going to go throw some room temperature plastic at my mother-in-law to see if I can make a mask for Halloween.
Love this! a few suggestions though. if you put sharpened inserts (5-6) along the edges where the sheet plastic is, it will act as teeth and "bite" the plastic holding it tight. no need to screw and unscrew each piece to hold edges of plastic. also, if you drill very fine holes on edges of the shapes in the form you will get suction from inside the mold, not just the outside making better/crisper forms. you can then reverse airflow when set and the mold will pop/release. To get rid of webs, preheat that area before the oven with a heat gun. the extra heat in that area will help it form.
Bill: "So you're probably wondering..." Me: "Why you counter sunk holes that are going behind a bracket?" Bill: "... why I'm going with this aluminum." Me: "Nope. Not wondering that at all."
Love what you're doing. Just a couple of points about the heaters. They are infrared heaters. That means that they don't heat the air in the box, they only heat surfaces. So you don't need to preheat. White material reflects much of the heat away, that's why it takes so long to heat. Try building a 3"-4" deep box out of sheet metal to put over what you already have and paint the bottom of the sheet metal facing the heaters with flat black engine paint. That will turn the sheet metal box into an oven. You may need to put it closer to the heaters to get the temps you want but I doubt it since your getting close to your desired temp already. You will have to preheat it to get the sheet metal hot but it shouldn't take very long and it will be an even heat. It's pretty easy to build too.
I loved this video. Watching things not work is every bit as instructive as watching everything work on the first take. Your frustration was fun to watch, too. You're very sympathetic as stuff goes wrong. I might suggest adding a lid to your warming box. Heat rises, so you're losing heat while it's warming up.
Ways to get more heat out of that heat box: 1. Insulate 4 or 5 sides of the box. Rock wool is good for high-temperature applications like this. Or you could use fire bricks (such as are used in kilns and forges). 2. Put a sheet of metal, like the one you used on the vacuum table top, behind the heaters, as a reflector to direct heat straight up. 3. Reduce the height of that box by at least half. You’re using mainly radiant heat here, and radiant heat fades quite rapidly as you get farther from the source. You were trying to even out the heat distribution by moving the target farther from the heating elements, but you can do that better by: 4. Put a small fan inside the heat box, to circulate the hot air. Position it so it just recirculates the air in the box, without bringing in any outside air. 5. Put some sort of reflector (such as a sheet of foil or a reflective blanket) above the sheet of plastic, so it gets heated from both sides, and heat doesn’t escape from the top. You may be able to get your plastic hot enough with your current design (although it still seemed a little cold in the tests shown), but if you can heat it faster, you can produce a lot more pieces per hour. Also, your energy bills will be lower.
I think you could do without the extra screws if you glued a thin rubber gasket around the aluminum frame. That would grip the plastic better and more evenly. Also, if you regularly need to vac-form smaller pieces, it seems like you could just cut an adapter matte out two thin metal sheets that would clamp into the larger frame. Name ideas: Ooie-gooey Prop Drop, Shape Sucker, Fantastic Elastic Plastic Press (FEPP)
A great video, most diy videos are edited and only show things going well. You had the courage to shoot from the hip and included the mistakes. I've known for years that the only way to learn is through the mistakes we make, nice job and thank you.
Rather than using a purely radiative heating scheme, which has the unevenness problems that you ran into here, is there any reason you couldn't have added a fan and made this more convective? That would be a more even heat source and would have the added advantage that you should be able to keep the plastic below the heat source, which is less prone to ... letting out smoke ... and would also be much smaller, and thus more efficient. The big issue that I can think of would be sourcing a fan (and connections) that could handle the glass-transition temps you're looking at. This would assume that the fan lives entirely inside the box; if you were to put the fan outside, you would need to heat the inlet air as well as the chamber air, which seems more difficult to me, but might work. As an aside, I found it kind of funny that your shop has a spindle sander but apparently no large hole saws. 8-)
@@punishedprops After thinking about it for a bit (like you do), If you were to keep the motor out of the heated space and just run a shaft through the wall with a metal-bladed fan inside, you could probably use inexpensive components. The hole in the wall of the oven wouldn't let out much heat, especially if it were kept close to the diameter of the shaft. (And you could even use a bearing at the wall if over-engineering is your thing.) 8-)
Great video I wish that I had seen this years ago. I made mine similarly but I added strategically placed holes in the molds to allow more vacuum where the definition needs some help.
Bill you might think about adding some wooden handles on the sides of the frame similar to old metal pans. That way you don't have to worry about gloves
You still need the gloves to help the plastic push through as you vacuum it down... plus you are always at risk of touching the frame while handling the whole thing. Handles can help sure, but keep the gloves !
Love the build and look forward to trying it out soon. Just a friendly bit of advise. Welding that type of aluminum is called brazing a few of the proper brazing rods and a small torch with yellow MAP gas and your set. Lastly at least in the US most electrical code requires receptacles to be wired with 12g wire on a 20amp breaker. Only lighting circuits should on 14g wire with a 15amp breaker.
Yeah...that confused me. I don't understand why it was necessary to heat it without the plastic... if anything... I would assume it would heat faster being closed off.
He was concerned with getting an even temp across the plastic at all times. I agree that pre heating wouldn’t be necessary but if you wanted to, I’d make a temp cover to improve efficiency
My 1962 Mattle vacuform says to test the plastic by pressing the corners to see if they are playable. Also each piece of plastic has wholes all way around each side that seat the plastic on pins for even tension. It would be easy to add a few pins to the frame and drill a few holes on each side of the plastic sheets.
Thank you for the awesome tutorial. I'm not sure how you prepped the sheet metal but you could emphasize that preparation is key when using adhesives. A lot of times they use a protective coating or even petroleum on the sheet metal so I usually clean it really well with 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol and then I'll lightly rough it up with some 220 sandpaper. Thanks again I'm looking forward to building a table for myself for forming and laminating wood.
I used to vacuum forming an RC body a few years ago, in order to have more details you should drill some holes on the panel you want to form, don't have to be too big, just make it 3 or 4 holes depending how big or wide your panel would be, just to help the air sucked not only from the side of the panel but also from the center. That would helps you get more details.
Circuit breakers have a time element to them. So even though you are over current slightly, it can run that way for an hour or more before the breaker gets hot enough to trip. The more over current you are the faster it heats up.
I built a machine a few years ago and used a router to carve the air ways into the mdf board instead of using spacers around the edge so I would have less edge seems to leak. www.vodundesigns.com/project/vacuum-forming-machine/
5 years later. The Garage 54 team bought one. I watched them unbox it and pull door skins. The trick they have that you don't is a vacuum reservoir launch system. In your setup, the shop vac would void an inline series of pipes or a tank ahead of the table. A dump valve would release a super duper initial suck. Your plastic is farther away and upside down in comparison to the commercial ones. A little closer to the flame might do the trick. But it's five years later.
I feel like if you made the heat box shorter you will get more heat and what you are looking for. Great build and had me intrigue from beginning to end👍👍
Love you guys ! We made ours with replacement heating elements for a range oven, only because we needed a higher temp to soften 1/4” plexiglass and lexan. Just as another fan mentioned we also use blower tip to cool down and remove the template from the plastic. Keep up the great videos. Please keep the bloopers coming!
I made one using 16 x 16 piece of pegboard, with about 2.5 inches between top and bottom and put a vacuum attachment on the side. Works fabulous. didn't have all day to drill holes. Mine was just for sanding small parts and not a heat form.
Nice project and video - thank you. An option that might be worth considering when connecting the aluminum angles (at 12:37+): cut off a short, straight section of the angle stock, and use it on the outside corners with rivets as the corner bracket - clamp pieces in place (one corner at a time), make sure pieces are 90 & flat on bottom, then drill two rivet holes through the brackets and long pieces that come together, insert rivets, then drill other rivet holes & insert rivets, remove clamps - this would guarantee better fit/alignment and no fasteners means quicker assembly and nothing coming loose later. 👍
I worked in a modeling shop in the 90's and we built our own oven and vac table...for better definition on fine details, perforate the object being formed, especially the deep central cavities. Also, have the vacuum arrive before dropping your frame. Nice work!
Your work inspired me and I wish to suggest you to connect vacuum board with the heater side by side. Connect the work page with a hinge. After heating it turn the page over the vacuum like book page. This way you will always place the work piece on the right place. Idea😃
Okay let me just start by saying great job with the Platen and the heaters. Very similar to the commercial unit that I had to troubleshoot and Repair a number of times. I spent 17years as a lineman (high voltage electrician) at Fort Irwin Army base the national training center where they trained all the troops for Desert Shield and Desert Storm. They created mauk battles and they made US Military vehicles look like Iraqi vehicles. The parts were all made it that vacuum former. The Platen was 8' x 12' the heaters were 3 groups of elements 9000 watts each this thing ran 480 volts 3 phase. Quite impressive to watch it work. But he's where that one defferred from yours it did not use a Shop Vacuum for the vacuum source because a shop vac can't generate enough vacuum to produce the great details that a high vacuum source can. What they had was a small Rootes blower set up a vacuum pump that pulled a high vacuum on a 150 gallon air storage tank then that was coupled to the Platen through a 2" sellinoid valve and a manifold on the bottom of the Platen. This hole thing was all automated. The heaters were on top like you started to do and they had timers on them it would heat for a preset period of time then the frame that held the heated plastic was attached to 2 air rams like hydraulic cylinders only not as powerful and much faster. When the timer cut off the heater it opened air solenoid valves which quickly pushed the plastic onto the Platen where another sensor triggered the vacuum solenoid valve to open and the high vacuum was instantly applied pulling the hot plastic down to form great details it picked up the smallest of details from the mold. So if you really want to get great details ditch the shop vacuum and get your self a refrigeration service oil type vacuum pump and an old air compressor air tank probably 20 - 30 gallon and you will need to take it to a welding shop and have them cut a 2" hole in it and weld a 2" fitting in so you can connect a 2" ball valve. Those can be opened quickly there not as fast as a solenoid valve but still quite quick enough.
I used peg board for mine, works good, way less drilling. Also, instead of wedging the aluminum tape then cutting all around, try putting a square of it with a corner in the corner and just have to cut 2x inside.
You might add a lid to your frame. You're trapping the heat below the styrene, but you're losing heat (radiation and convection) that comes off the top. If you had an insulating layer above your styrene you can trap that and get a little more heat into the styrene.
Great video I have a recommended tweak for the heat box is to use foil backed ridged insulation board it keeps the heat in and helps with reflecting the heat in.
Suggestions and tips: Heater box: - adjustable height (adjustable heat, faster or slower heating), -single custom element (keeping in mind that this is a build of hardware store bought items, tear the two heaters apart and put the coils where you need them to be) Aluminum frame: -you can braise wield aluminum with a propane or map/pro torch (takes practice and a good torch head), -on the inner side of the frame where it grips the plastic put punch marks (punching from the sides that don't grip the plastic), all around the inner edge of the frame (making gripping dimples), or just puncture through the aluminum altogether with a nail or big punch to make gripping teeth -Also the aluminum frame was best idea, lightweight and cools faster The base: -glue the metal and spacers on before cutting for less work, or just don't cut the corners, -and primer or sealer or vinyl or veneer on any exposed MDF or particleboard (I hate working with the stuff and find that these wood like to attract ambient moisture)
Hey just wanted to pop in and say that according to the 2017 edition of the nec. All outlet receptacles in a house circuit must be rated for 20 amps. So if your building this then make sure they are on two separate circuit that are being used to be safe. I am just a guy who is studying to be an electrician and thought it would help some people out who want to build this
"Vac-zilla" seems appropriate or perhaps "Frankin-vac". In college I worked at a sign company that made vacuum formed signs. The plastic we used was .02" ABS plastic; a poly vinyl I think. It has a lower optimum temperature and holds the heat longer, necessary for the plastic to get into the finer details of the mold. Rather than trying to seal the aluminum frame to both the plastic and table, the commercial table we used had a 1/8 in raised, high temperature, hard rubber bead gasket that sealed the plastic to the table. The frame only held the plastic sheet in place. You should run the vacuum through a sealed 5 gal (or bigger) bucket to a foot valve to the table. Run the vacuum prier to moving the plastic to build up the vacuum in the bucket. This acts like a capacitor or an expansion tank in a water system. The full vacuum is more instantaneous. The vacuum foot valve is used commercially for vacuum forming and silk screen print tables. Also the foundation for your parts should have holes drilled in it to distribute the vacuum evenly throughout the mold.
Don't know if yu are familiar with ShopBot tools or not. But the hold-down boards are made of MDF like the components of your platen. On the ShopBot the boards to be cut are held down by vacuum applied right through the MDF table. So, unless you have sealed the surfaces of your platen you are losing suction all over the place. Admittedly i skipped through a bit, so i may have missed it if you did seal ... but I highly recommend it. There are a number of things i would do dramatically differently with the plastic holder ... but this is your parade. Happy forming!
If you don't have a welder but want to make nice aluminium joints, check out aluminium brazing rods- you just need a mapp gas torch and you're away. It's a nice technique to have available.
For joining the mitered ends of the aluminum frame, try using "aluminum brazing rod". It's not quite as strong as a well penetrated aluminum weld would be, but it's more then strong enough for what you are building in this video.
I think you should get a piece of foam board to put on top of your frame holding the plastic sheet while you are heating it to preserve any heat passing through it. I think you might get cleaner forming out of the 'base' area of your 'buck' if you elevate it off of the platen with something smaller than the buck's outside diameter [base].
Hey gang, I know I am really REALLY late to this party but I wanted to add one tidbit. A strip of sandpaper along the edge of your frame can do wonders to hold your plastic sheet in place. I have tried a few things and a 1" roll of grip tape from your local skate shop can do wonders. I have also had success cutting up 1" sanding belts and getting at it with double sided tape.
ive worked in an industrial setting for vacuum forming. Another hint would be to do some mold release also having your part in an oven even at a lower temperature such as 140 that will really help you part mold with out creases or spider webs. Good Job though
Gosh I'm reliving all the trials and tribulations of the 4'x4' one I made 20 or so years ago. 10 years later someone cut it in half and put an overhead gas fired oven. It was literally working in a sweat shop to use the machine for 8 hours...But it was cooking with gas, so about 4 minutes to heat a 4x4 sheet.
to get a better heat on your plastic, after the plastic has heated say 3/4" of the way to temperature, flip the entire piece and finish heating the other side all the way to the finished temperature. Those heaters are INFRARED heaters, so they heat items by reflecting IR light off them. Like standing in the sun makes you feel warm as you absorb the IR light.
We made a similar vacuum table, but on a much larger scale, as we were producing pan faces for cabinet signs. We hung our 10’ X10’ plastic sheets in a cabinet then heated them till they were malleable with a torpedo heater.
Howdy Bill. Very interesting design. I would call it the "Fire Starter". Here's why. All of the commercial vacuum forming equipment that I have seen, always have the heat source at the top. The reason is gravity and how plastics react when they are heated. If you have your heat source on the bottom, the material you are using will droop towards your heat source. If you do not pay close attention to the temperature of the material, it can sag enough to separate from the frame or develop a split and fall onto the heat source and now you have a toxic fire to deal with inside a wooden box. If you are not familiar with the material and or you do not know the exact temperature for vacuum forming you are risking a fire using this method. Also, you are using wood for the frame, which has the potential to smolder and catch fire. The glues that are used in most plywood manufacturing processes are toxic when they are heated and can cause eye and lung irritation when they are released. An aluminum or steel frame would be much safer than the wooden fire box you built. I hope you never have an incident with this apparatus, but I personally would never allow this design to be used where I work and teach. Thanks for posting the build and good luck.
Good points; if you build a machine like this you are assuming a bit risk. I would argue that you should always pay close attention to the temperature of the material for the duration of operating the machine. Many of the other machines I've seen made are built from wood and I've never heard of one catching fire, so I *think* we're OK there too.
Hello Bill. Thanks for the response. Yes, there is always risk. I have yet to see a wooden one. I guess they have not made it up to the Great White North as yet. Must be a slow migration. Take Care.
41:11 Get a sheet of 3/8" ply, set your mold on it and trace an outline about a 1/2" all around. Cut out the shape and add some wood slats to stiffen it up. This will fit over your mold so you want to round the edge that will contact the plastic with a router...make sure its very smooth. Heat your mold so its very warm to hot to the touch. Bring down the hot plastic sheet down enough so the frame you made can slide down (its also warmed). when the both the plastic sheet is on the table apply the vacuum and use the frame to guide the plastic to the table. It takes practice and I was building vac tables and moulds back in the 70's.
to get more detail in your results you need to create vacuum at the top of your form. With the last one you would have to create a channel under the bottom and make small holes up to the top. The holes would be places along edges where you want the plastic to be pulled into. To soften out the webbing and deformation at the edges you can use clay and round out the edges to the table a little bit. I use to work at a place that made pool parts and some were vacuum formed. The guy who designed and built the forms had it down to a science. He could build a form and within a couple tries get the exact parts we needed, adding only a few holes here and there or some molding clay.
A couple of thoughts: 1 - There is a lot of time between pulling the plastic off the heater and starting the vacuum, allowing the plastic to cool. Turn on the vacuum before removing the plastic from the heater. It won't start pulling until you seal the frame to the table, but will then pull immediately, while the plastic is still very hot. 2 - Wire your heaters in series and plug them into a 240v outlet, I'm sure you have one in your shop. It will only pull 12 amps, and you won't have to mess around with all the cords running to different outlets, etc.
Add spikes under spring tension around your frame to keep the plastic from pulling out. Heat from top & bottom quickly poking the plastic to test the playability. Also, try covering the vacuum holes that are not in use for a stronger vacuum. Good luck!
Great video, dig the long format and exploration of mistakes and having to replan halfway. It's always how these sorta projects actually go. Doesn't look like you're having too much trouble with the suction, but might still be worth it to get a proper 4" inlet flange on the bottom of the table to connect to the hose, and caulk seal it down. I'm sure you're leaking at least some vacuum with just the wood-to-pipe connection there.
With that heat, I'd put in a caution to do this in a space as large as Bill's or outside (like drag it out of the garage) because of MDF's propensity to offgas urea-formaldehyde, the glue that creates MDF. Also, Id throw in a tread pedal switch to turn off/on the vacuum, so one person could operate the process.
Thats pretty awesome! Just an FYI, you can weld aluminum fairly easily without a welder. You just need to heat up the corner with a torch and rub an aluminum welding rod in there.
Check out our website to see all the materials used and more build photos: punishedprops.com/2018/10/01/large-vacuumformer/
Call it "The Warm Sucker"
where do you buy your styrene? i used to buy it at my university but since i graduated i cant buy from them and i havent been able to find affordable styrene anywhere
Call it Indica
We have a couple local plastic suppliers in Seattle. Tap Plastics is our favorite!
Hey PPA, you could name it "Shape Sucker"
Hey Bill, it's been a while since vacuuforming for me (worked at a sign company). A little tip: at the end of the vacuum draw, if there are some imperfections where the vacuum didn't pull all the plastic, use a heat gun to reheat the plastic as the vacuum continues to draw. That should fix it.
How thick of material were you doing?
@@ryananthony4840He's still measuring.
Although you are heating the plastic (to be formed), you also need to heat up the area around the form and vacuum table. As soon as the hot plastic hits the cold form and table it quickly looses heat and looses detail, thus the webbing around the bottom of the mould. Use an infrared bulb (or two) over the vacuum table to preheat the bed and form.
2 years later and this video is still worth it. For your heater( you may have solved this long ago), I volunteered once building an Open 60 sailboat, they used prepregged carbon fibre/epoxy. The autoclave they built covered the whole boat and they used refective styrofoam panels with minimal wood framing. Worked like a charm! Loved the video and the trouble shooting process. Thank you!
Thanks so much for watching and for the tips!
That was kind of difficult to watch.
Several years ago (~40 years)
I set up a vacuum forming operation for a company that used thousands of parts made on vacuum form machines. Seeing you struggling with starting from scratch to build a vacuum forming machine was hard to watch. All of the things that didn't work, and needed to be fixed, were very common when you're first learning about vacuum forming. I was glad to see you finally pulled a successful batch of parts. Good luck on your continued adventures in vacuum forming from the ground up. A good, wholesome video you made. It showed the good, the bad, and the ugly of starting to learn a new skill set.
This was actually very handy for me as im a younger diesel mechanic and i have loads of tools and this was a perfect way for me to make custom tool organizers for all of my tools even the oddball ones i own and so far its working perfect i just used black plastic and it was slightly thicker for durability. I also made a couple tool trays for a couple other guys in the shop and they love it so far! Great idea. Been trying to solve this problem for a while!
That's fantastic!
I know its been five years, but what plastic did you use and where did you get it?
best video Ive ever seen on how to make a vacuum forming table . It seems like most people treat them like its a secret or something they show the end result but no details on how to do it thanks.
Thank you for always showing yourself wearing proper safety gear! It makes others more conscious of safety
Dope! I love how you showed your trials and errors, and talked through the various issues and possible solutions, etc. Super cool to see the realistic process, and appreciative that the time you put in will save us time when we take this project on. Thanks!!
I’ve started keeping a log of all my vacuform pulls: time, temperature, material used, that sort of thing. It makes it easier to keep track of what works well, and what doesn’t- especially what doesn’t.
Fantastic tip Alex!
I am making one for the first time what do you recommend
I very much like the build! I'm moving soon and will finally have room for one in my new workshop space.
Something we used to do a place I worked was put carpet padding under the master which let it pull vacuum all around.
If there's a few more dollars to throw at the project instead of aluminum foil to line the box you could get a roll of Reflectix- it's great stuff and you'll bake the plastic in no time! You'll lose a LOT less heat.
Also you could tape off unused areas and make a smaller vacuum area on the table to use with a smaller frame. Multiple tables in one.
Great tips, thanks for sharing! =D
Hey Bill. Just one critique for you. MDF is porous (you can actually pull a vacuum through it) so you're probably losing a lot of your vacuum potential to the underside of the table. Just give the bottom and the sides a coat of polyurethane and that will seal it right up. Good luck!
Great addition Mark, thanks!
No way you are losing any vacuum through MDF.
That is not possible as mdf is gas tight. As it's a compressed fibres impregnated with its own binder. as. Really shitty advice doctor mdf
You are absolutely incorrect, MDF is extremely porous and will not hold a vacuum, try to make a vacuum camber with an MDF lid, you will find out how porous MDF really is.
@@cohode6290 bullshit
A couple tips from an aerospace tool maker / metal worker ... now retired. I am making these while watching the video so if you address something after I say it, good on you for seeing something and taking care of it!
When cutting angle to make a frame, esp alum, simply notch the top there is no need to cut all the way down the sides, you just cut a "triangle" out of the top and bend the sides, less work and a stronger frame results.
Tap magic... unless it is specifically for Alum, is not to be used on alum. There is a chemical reaction with the chloronated fluid and alum, bad things result.
Center punching is good, nice work.
Interesting use of window hardware!
1,2,3 blocks are GREAT to use for quick measurements!
Those heaters should be radiant heat so if you made a closed box and made it deeper IE more distance between the heater and the plastic, you should get a wider pattern of heat.
A heat GUN can be used to spot heat for better detail under vacuum. .
In addition, a cover over the plastic will also hold the heat in, without a cover you have a large radiating surface.
Over all score I would give it a 9.5 out of 10. Nice job!
Ha! Thanks and great tips! =)
Ah, that book is such an awesome resource! Awesome build. Loving the new "as we go" style.
ruclips.net/video/hTdpXFmikvk/видео.html
Nice work. I watched a vacuum form machine work. The big difference is the heat is kept on even as the vacuum is pulled to completion. The heaters were above the plastic and lowered evenly using cables and pulleys.
When casting its a good idea to pull past the object. It gets rid of the webbing ruining the result and means it can be cut off. Either be able pull past the table height or raise the master via a stand. Idk if im making any sense. Also I love the scifi panel idea.
I get what you mean. Probably a down side to the way I built this frame. It stops at the platen.
You just need a shallow spacer under the buck that's smaller than the buck so it has some undercut.
@@punishedprops Adam Savage has the video you need :-) ruclips.net/video/Cacr1WeKOzY/видео.html
Great build, great video.
I haven't built one of these, I'm not an expert at this and I don't play on on TV, but I did think of a couple of suggestions ... here is just one.
It's a bit complex, but not so much if you plan the build around it from the start:
For the heater box:
1) Cut a slot in one side, about 1-inch down from the top, and for the full width of the box (yes, this would cut through your hinges but it could be planned for in a new build. The height of the slot should be about, but a little bit bigger than 1/4 inch, but see step 5 to plan the slot dimension.
2) Next cut 2 strips of wood, say 3/8 or 1/2 inch (square in cross-section), and as long as the inside dimension of the box.
3) Attach these 2 strips of wood inside the box, on the 2 sides adjacent to the side where you cut the slot, about 1-inch down from the top of the box. The top of the strips should be even with the bottom edge of the slot you cut, in step-1.
4) Optionally, an additional similar strip of wood could be attached in a similar way to the remaining side (the side opposite to the slot).
5) Prepare a piece of wood (Plywood, MDF, Masonite, ...). Logically this would be made of the same material as the material used for the box. The thickness will be 1/4 inch, but this piece of wood has to fit into the slot cut in step-1, so if using a thicker piece of wood, the height of the slot cut in step-1 needs to match. The width of this wood needs to be lightly smaller (narrower) than the inside dimension of the box. The length needs to be about 1 inch longer than the inside dimension of the box.
6) Optionally, cut a strip of the same material, about 1 inch wide, and the length of the box. Mount this strip about 1/2 inch above the slot, using a continuous hinge, or a few individual hinges, or interlocking screw-eyes and hooks. This piece should swing (pivot) to block or allow access to the slot.
7) Insert the piece of wood cut in step-5 into the slot and push it all the way in, until it touches the opposite side of the box. This piece will be a "lid/cover" that you slide in or out as needed.
Now, when you use the heat-box, you can pre-heat the box, then place your framed plastic sheet on top, and slide the cover out, and you have full instant heat.
Three things:
1: Use insulation around the box to decrease heat loss.
2: Add a plastic mirror (45 degree angle) to the bottom so you don't have to squat down for the IR Sensors.
3: Blow an air chuck into your form to release it.
Instead of the steel mesh, you use for the vacuum system, stick the pipes just like you would make a floor heating system. but group the above holes and place the pipes, one pipeline every 4-5 rows. also, join the pipes in each group into a single pipe. then fill between the pipes with a filling material such as silicone, liquid plastic, plaster or epoxy. After it hardens, remove the pipes. so you will have pipelines distributed into groups from a single pipe inlet. In this way, you vacuum the air in a controlled and equal amount. You put a lot of effort into making this video. Thank you for keeping us informed.
Great video! I loved watching the struggle and troubleshooting you did. It's nice to know that it is okay to not get it right the first time, and make adjustments when needed.
ruclips.net/video/hTdpXFmikvk/видео.html
I’m glad to see you making something that’s not perfect. Designing as you go is how many of us do things, we try one thing, and if it doesn’t work, we try to think of a better way. I think an imperfect build video is very inspiring.
What a fun project! For the platen I would've done away with the mesh and added a ring on the elbow as a stop so that it doesn't go all the way to the top. This allows for a higher CFM since there's less air resistance. The other change would be to make your "oven" shorter so that there is less volume for the heaters to heat up alleviating some lost heat calories. Otherwise, great build :D
you need the distance to distribute the heat more evenly to the corners
Thanks for the tips!
@Brandon Winters - Wouldn't putting a small fan to circulate the air help alleviate this issue? Just a thought.
@@dolfinmagikpro That was my first thought but you would probably want to get yourself an old or replacement oven fan. Catch being that most of the heat is radiant heat from the heat elements so your really only blowing around the secondary heat (from the plastic). Which is also why the "10 min preheat" probably isnt doing a lot. If you sit under those heaters its hot when they are on and cold when they are not but they dont really heat a room very well only surfaces they shine their light on.
If you really wanted to spread the heat out changing the curve of the reflector would be the answer although probably a real pain. Making the curve shallower would enable the IR light to spread out more giving a more even heat but the foil box is probably doing similarly assuming you are far enough away with the box height. A V shape of mylar would probably give the profile you are looking for with the reflective box the rabbit hole is never ending. Those heaters are built to focus heat and that isnt really what you want but "modification is the mother of invention" or some such.
Why not use Mylar faced styro-insulation boards for the wall material? dual purpose as it would insulate better and reflect any radiant heat back to the center of the box. Just a thought :)
Great job! You'll get even better definition if you heat the negative with a heat gun or blow dryer. It will help negate some thermal diffusion from the plastic to the negative.
ruclips.net/video/hTdpXFmikvk/видео.html
Instead of bolting the aluminum frame together, using some 'low temp aluminum braising rods' would create a joint stronger than tig welded aluminum. and only needs a plumbing blowtorch. as a bonus it will also fill in any imperfections for those who do not have a metal band saw. There are several you tube videos showing how to use it.
Very cool!... or... HOT!?
wow. I never knew about this. I've been a tig welder a long time and always recommend welding as a last resort. There are so many ways to join things without distorting them like welding has the potential to do. Thanks for the tip on the deal.
You made this look incredibly easy to do. Wow. You made this look incredibly easy to do. Wow.
Couple of thoughts on the machine, As far as tripping breakers stuff usually draws the most amps at start up so doing what you did and starting one at a time is a good idea and point to make. I think the real thing with the overhead heater not liking life was the large gaps on top. If you had closed the top gaps and do aluminum tape on the inside I bet it would of worked. Also you might want to think about getting on of those foot on/off switchs for the vac
Regarding heat. It rises and will always try to equalise. Life can be hard enough without fighting nature too.... Underside heaters and good insulation is definitely the way to go.
For mechanical connections that are going to go through a lot of movement, like the bolts holding the frame together, it doesn't hurt to put a little Locktite on the bolts so that it won't work its way loose over time. If you're concerned about being able to disassemble it later, use the blue kind. It'll do the job, and if you ever need to disassemble it, it'll come loose with a little force.
Thanks!
start the vac before you lay the sheet on.it needs no delay when applying.
This was going to be my comment also, it's common sense that each second that passes the plastic is hardening! Anyway, must rush - I'm going to go throw some room temperature plastic at my mother-in-law to see if I can make a mask for Halloween.
Your mother-in-law needs a mask? Mine came with her own!
Love this! a few suggestions though. if you put sharpened inserts (5-6) along the edges where the sheet plastic is, it will act as teeth and "bite" the plastic holding it tight. no need to screw and unscrew each piece to hold edges of plastic. also, if you drill very fine holes on edges of the shapes in the form you will get suction from inside the mold, not just the outside making better/crisper forms. you can then reverse airflow when set and the mold will pop/release. To get rid of webs, preheat that area before the oven with a heat gun. the extra heat in that area will help it form.
Bill: "So you're probably wondering..."
Me: "Why you counter sunk holes that are going behind a bracket?"
Bill: "... why I'm going with this aluminum."
Me: "Nope. Not wondering that at all."
He's "removing" the "burrs" so the brackets are flush. Yeaaaaa, that's it.
De-burring the holes
You should look at frank's at tested. He has one he got from Jamie thats very simple and powerful...same above type heater assembly.
I for one have never seen Frank and Bill in the same video. I'm convinced they're the same person!!
Love what you're doing. Just a couple of points about the heaters. They are infrared heaters. That means that they don't heat the air in the box, they only heat surfaces. So you don't need to preheat. White material reflects much of the heat away, that's why it takes so long to heat. Try building a 3"-4" deep box out of sheet metal to put over what you already have and paint the bottom of the sheet metal facing the heaters with flat black engine paint. That will turn the sheet metal box into an oven. You may need to put it closer to the heaters to get the temps you want but I doubt it since your getting close to your desired temp already. You will have to preheat it to get the sheet metal hot but it shouldn't take very long and it will be an even heat. It's pretty easy to build too.
*tosses duplicator sitck in the trash* welp guess it wont work anymore *turns away* *looks back* and now there is 16 trash cans, ugh.
I loved this video. Watching things not work is every bit as instructive as watching everything work on the first take. Your frustration was fun to watch, too. You're very sympathetic as stuff goes wrong.
I might suggest adding a lid to your warming box. Heat rises, so you're losing heat while it's warming up.
I'm glad you could benefit from our frustration. =D
FYI: Highly recommend wearing at least a dust-mask when working with MDF- creates super fine dust that is terrible for your lungs.
Sandriell he had one?
Ways to get more heat out of that heat box:
1. Insulate 4 or 5 sides of the box. Rock wool is good for high-temperature applications like this. Or you could use fire bricks (such as are used in kilns and forges).
2. Put a sheet of metal, like the one you used on the vacuum table top, behind the heaters, as a reflector to direct heat straight up.
3. Reduce the height of that box by at least half. You’re using mainly radiant heat here, and radiant heat fades quite rapidly as you get farther from the source. You were trying to even out the heat distribution by moving the target farther from the heating elements, but you can do that better by:
4. Put a small fan inside the heat box, to circulate the hot air. Position it so it just recirculates the air in the box, without bringing in any outside air.
5. Put some sort of reflector (such as a sheet of foil or a reflective blanket) above the sheet of plastic, so it gets heated from both sides, and heat doesn’t escape from the top.
You may be able to get your plastic hot enough with your current design (although it still seemed a little cold in the tests shown), but if you can heat it faster, you can produce a lot more pieces per hour. Also, your energy bills will be lower.
Heat reflective fabric would be better. It's lighter and more mobile.
I think you could do without the extra screws if you glued a thin rubber gasket around the aluminum frame. That would grip the plastic better and more evenly. Also, if you regularly need to vac-form smaller pieces, it seems like you could just cut an adapter matte out two thin metal sheets that would clamp into the larger frame.
Name ideas: Ooie-gooey Prop Drop, Shape Sucker, Fantastic Elastic Plastic Press (FEPP)
That's a pretty great idea!
Another suggestion: You might get more even heating if you added a PC muffin fan inside to create internal convection (not to draw in or exhaust air).
A great video, most diy videos are edited and only show things going well. You had the courage to shoot from the hip and included the mistakes. I've known for years that the only way to learn is through the mistakes we make, nice job and thank you.
We're really glad you found it so helpful!
Rather than using a purely radiative heating scheme, which has the unevenness problems that you ran into here, is there any reason you couldn't have added a fan and made this more convective? That would be a more even heat source and would have the added advantage that you should be able to keep the plastic below the heat source, which is less prone to ... letting out smoke ... and would also be much smaller, and thus more efficient.
The big issue that I can think of would be sourcing a fan (and connections) that could handle the glass-transition temps you're looking at. This would assume that the fan lives entirely inside the box; if you were to put the fan outside, you would need to heat the inlet air as well as the chamber air, which seems more difficult to me, but might work.
As an aside, I found it kind of funny that your shop has a spindle sander but apparently no large hole saws. 8-)
I've considered it, but I've never heard off anyone else using a fan for their vacuum former heating elements. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@punishedprops After thinking about it for a bit (like you do), If you were to keep the motor out of the heated space and just run a shaft through the wall with a metal-bladed fan inside, you could probably use inexpensive components. The hole in the wall of the oven wouldn't let out much heat, especially if it were kept close to the diameter of the shaft. (And you could even use a bearing at the wall if over-engineering is your thing.)
8-)
Great video I wish that I had seen this years ago. I made mine similarly but I added strategically placed holes in the molds to allow more vacuum where the definition needs some help.
Bill you might think about adding some wooden handles on the sides of the frame similar to old metal pans. That way you don't have to worry about gloves
That's a pretty fantastic idea!
You still need the gloves to help the plastic push through as you vacuum it down... plus you are always at risk of touching the frame while handling the whole thing. Handles can help sure, but keep the gloves !
Love the build and look forward to trying it out soon. Just a friendly bit of advise. Welding that type of aluminum is called brazing a few of the proper brazing rods and a small torch with yellow MAP gas and your set. Lastly at least in the US most electrical code requires receptacles to be wired with 12g wire on a 20amp breaker. Only lighting circuits should on 14g wire with a 15amp breaker.
There is no reason to preheat the box.
Yeah...that confused me. I don't understand why it was necessary to heat it without the plastic... if anything... I would assume it would heat faster being closed off.
I jumped in here to say the exact same thing. All he's doing there is wasting the initial heat (electricity). Yes, I know it's been two years...
He was concerned with getting an even temp across the plastic at all times. I agree that pre heating wouldn’t be necessary but if you wanted to, I’d make a temp cover to improve efficiency
My 1962 Mattle vacuform says to test the plastic by pressing the corners to see if they are playable. Also each piece of plastic has wholes all way around each side that seat the plastic on pins for even tension. It would be easy to add a few pins to the frame and drill a few holes on each side of the plastic sheets.
I made a foot switch to operate the heating coils and the vacuum, leaving my hands free. Don't need any help.
Thank you for the awesome tutorial.
I'm not sure how you prepped the sheet metal but you could emphasize that preparation is key when using adhesives.
A lot of times they use a protective coating or even petroleum on the sheet metal so I usually clean it really well with 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol and then I'll lightly rough it up with some 220 sandpaper.
Thanks again I'm looking forward to building a table for myself for forming and laminating wood.
So glad you enjoyed the video!
I suggest you throw that vac in reverse and invite me over for some air hockey!!
I used to vacuum forming an RC body a few years ago, in order to have more details you should drill some holes on the panel you want to form, don't have to be too big, just make it 3 or 4 holes depending how big or wide your panel would be, just to help the air sucked not only from the side of the panel but also from the center. That would helps you get more details.
This should be the "Carbonite Chamber", also you should vacuum form a Han Solo 3D print and paint it to look like carbonite from Star Wars.
Circuit breakers have a time element to them. So even though you are over current slightly, it can run that way for an hour or more before the breaker gets hot enough to trip. The more over current you are the faster it heats up.
Thanks for sharing that info!
Would have been cheaper to just cut some wood spacers and not use the wire mesh.
That's a great alternative!
I built a machine a few years ago and used a router to carve the air ways into the mdf board instead of using spacers around the edge so I would have less edge seems to leak. www.vodundesigns.com/project/vacuum-forming-machine/
@@vodundesigns3076 Wow, nice website and projects!
Yep did spacer blocks with mine. For the platen I stole the biggest cookie sheet my wife had. Been using it over 10 years now.
i was thinking about that material they use in office ceilings over lighting.
its a plastic mesh that has some height to it.
5 years later. The Garage 54 team bought one. I watched them unbox it and pull door skins. The trick they have that you don't is a vacuum reservoir launch system. In your setup, the shop vac would void an inline series of pipes or a tank ahead of the table. A dump valve would release a super duper initial suck.
Your plastic is farther away and upside down in comparison to the commercial ones. A little closer to the flame might do the trick. But it's five years later.
“Acme Atomic Styrene Transmutational Energy Amplification Device”
I feel like if you made the heat box shorter you will get more heat and what you are looking for. Great build and had me intrigue from beginning to end👍👍
The hot box
Love you guys ! We made ours with replacement heating elements for a range oven, only because we needed a higher temp to soften 1/4” plexiglass and lexan. Just as another fan mentioned we also use blower tip to cool down and remove the template from the plastic.
Keep up the great videos. Please keep the bloopers coming!
Woah 1/4" thick is serious! Color me impressed. =D
Call it the holey Grill
HA! Yes!!!
I made one using 16 x 16 piece of pegboard, with about 2.5 inches between top and bottom and put a vacuum attachment on the side. Works fabulous. didn't have all day to drill holes. Mine was just for sanding small parts and not a heat form.
Super cool!
OMG I already own that book! That almost never happens :D
It's such a great book!
It's one of the best books on the subject. There is so much to learn from it!
:)
Nice project and video - thank you. An option that might be worth considering when connecting the aluminum angles (at 12:37+): cut off a short, straight section of the angle stock, and use it on the outside corners with rivets as the corner bracket - clamp pieces in place (one corner at a time), make sure pieces are 90 & flat on bottom, then drill two rivet holes through the brackets and long pieces that come together, insert rivets, then drill other rivet holes & insert rivets, remove clamps - this would guarantee better fit/alignment and no fasteners means quicker assembly and nothing coming loose later. 👍
14:57 "0 days glitter free" hahaha.
I worked in a modeling shop in the 90's and we built our own oven and vac table...for better definition on fine details, perforate the object being formed, especially the deep central cavities. Also, have the vacuum arrive before dropping your frame. Nice work!
Thanks so much!
hrmmm... 24 x 24 = 576..?
23x23=529
He said 24 by 24 in the video.
He also says 525 not 529.
Yeah, it's like nobody learns what factoring is good for anymore:
24^2 = (4 * 6)^2 = (2 * 2 * 2 * 3)^2 = 2 * 2 * 2 * 3 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 3 =
2^6 * 3^2 = 64 * 3 * 3 = 192 * 3 = *576*
haha, clever.
Your work inspired me and I wish to suggest you to connect vacuum board with the heater side by side. Connect the work page with a hinge. After heating it turn the page over the vacuum like book page. This way you will always place the work piece on the right place. Idea😃
Thanks for the suggestion!
The Suk-o-matic 9000!!!
Okay let me just start by saying great job with the Platen and the heaters. Very similar to the commercial unit that I had to troubleshoot and Repair a number of times. I spent 17years as a lineman (high voltage electrician) at Fort Irwin Army base the national training center where they trained all the troops for Desert Shield and Desert Storm. They created mauk battles and they made US Military vehicles look like Iraqi vehicles. The parts were all made it that vacuum former. The Platen was 8' x 12' the heaters were 3 groups of elements 9000 watts each this thing ran 480 volts 3 phase. Quite impressive to watch it work. But he's where that one defferred from yours it did not use a Shop Vacuum for the vacuum source because a shop vac can't generate enough vacuum to produce the great details that a high vacuum source can. What they had was a small Rootes blower set up a vacuum pump that pulled a high vacuum on a 150 gallon air storage tank then that was coupled to the Platen through a 2" sellinoid valve and a manifold on the bottom of the Platen. This hole thing was all automated. The heaters were on top like you started to do and they had timers on them it would heat for a preset period of time then the frame that held the heated plastic was attached to 2 air rams like hydraulic cylinders only not as powerful and much faster. When the timer cut off the heater it opened air solenoid valves which quickly pushed the plastic onto the Platen where another sensor triggered the vacuum solenoid valve to open and the high vacuum was instantly applied pulling the hot plastic down to form great details it picked up the smallest of details from the mold.
So if you really want to get great details ditch the shop vacuum and get your self a refrigeration service oil type vacuum pump and an old air compressor air tank probably 20 - 30 gallon and you will need to take it to a welding shop and have them cut a 2" hole in it and weld a 2" fitting in so you can connect a 2" ball valve. Those can be opened quickly there not as fast as a solenoid valve but still quite quick enough.
Its name is Mr melty
I like it!
I used peg board for mine, works good, way less drilling. Also, instead of wedging the aluminum tape then cutting all around, try putting a square of it with a corner in the corner and just have to cut 2x inside.
Name recommendation: The Vacuumator.
Try using a strip of sandpaper around the inside of the frame to help hold the plastic in place. You will need it on both the top and the bottom.
You might add a lid to your frame. You're trapping the heat below the styrene, but you're losing heat (radiation and convection) that comes off the top. If you had an insulating layer above your styrene you can trap that and get a little more heat into the styrene.
A sheet of foil clad insulation would work well for the lid.
Great video I have a recommended tweak for the heat box is to use foil backed ridged insulation board it keeps the heat in and helps with reflecting the heat in.
Good tip!
Suggestions and tips:
Heater box:
- adjustable height (adjustable heat, faster or slower heating),
-single custom element (keeping in mind that this is a build of hardware store bought items, tear the two heaters apart and put the coils where you need them to be)
Aluminum frame:
-you can braise wield aluminum with a propane or map/pro torch (takes practice and a good torch head),
-on the inner side of the frame where it grips the plastic put punch marks (punching from the sides that don't grip the plastic), all around the inner edge of the frame (making gripping dimples), or just puncture through the aluminum altogether with a nail or big punch to make gripping teeth
-Also the aluminum frame was best idea, lightweight and cools faster
The base:
-glue the metal and spacers on before cutting for less work, or just don't cut the corners,
-and primer or sealer or vinyl or veneer on any exposed MDF or particleboard (I hate working with the stuff and find that these wood like to attract ambient moisture)
What a nice job for making molds for casting gypsum
Hey just wanted to pop in and say that according to the 2017 edition of the nec. All outlet receptacles in a house circuit must be rated for 20 amps. So if your building this then make sure they are on two separate circuit that are being used to be safe. I am just a guy who is studying to be an electrician and thought it would help some people out who want to build this
"Vac-zilla" seems appropriate or perhaps "Frankin-vac". In college I worked at a sign company that made vacuum formed signs. The plastic we used was .02" ABS plastic; a poly vinyl I think. It has a lower optimum temperature and holds the heat longer, necessary for the plastic to get into the finer details of the mold. Rather than trying to seal the aluminum frame to both the plastic and table, the commercial table we used had a 1/8 in raised, high temperature, hard rubber bead gasket that sealed the plastic to the table. The frame only held the plastic sheet in place. You should run the vacuum through a sealed 5 gal (or bigger) bucket to a foot valve to the table. Run the vacuum prier to moving the plastic to build up the vacuum in the bucket. This acts like a capacitor or an expansion tank in a water system. The full vacuum is more instantaneous. The vacuum foot valve is used commercially for vacuum forming and silk screen print tables. Also the foundation for your parts should have holes drilled in it to distribute the vacuum evenly throughout the mold.
Don't know if yu are familiar with ShopBot tools or not. But the hold-down boards are made of MDF like the components of your platen. On the ShopBot the boards to be cut are held down by vacuum applied right through the MDF table. So, unless you have sealed the surfaces of your platen you are losing suction all over the place. Admittedly i skipped through a bit, so i may have missed it if you did seal ... but I highly recommend it. There are a number of things i would do dramatically differently with the plastic holder ... but this is your parade. Happy forming!
If you don't have a welder but want to make nice aluminium joints, check out aluminium brazing rods- you just need a mapp gas torch and you're away. It's a nice technique to have available.
A good reason to have multiple miter box sizes. Yeah, a bigger box can facilitate larger stock, but a smaller box is good for longer saw throws.
You made this look incredibly easy to do. Wow
For joining the mitered ends of the aluminum frame, try using "aluminum brazing rod". It's not quite as strong as a well penetrated aluminum weld would be, but it's more then strong enough for what you are building in this video.
I think you should get a piece of foam board to put on top of your frame holding the plastic sheet while you are heating it to preserve any heat passing through it.
I think you might get cleaner forming out of the 'base' area of your 'buck' if you elevate it off of the platen with something smaller than the buck's outside diameter [base].
Hey gang, I know I am really REALLY late to this party but I wanted to add one tidbit. A strip of sandpaper along the edge of your frame can do wonders to hold your plastic sheet in place. I have tried a few things and a 1" roll of grip tape from your local skate shop can do wonders. I have also had success cutting up 1" sanding belts and getting at it with double sided tape.
thanks!
ive worked in an industrial setting for vacuum forming. Another hint would be to do some mold release also having your part in an oven even at a lower temperature such as 140 that will really help you part mold with out creases or spider webs. Good Job though
Gosh I'm reliving all the trials and tribulations of the 4'x4' one I made 20 or so years ago. 10 years later someone cut it in half and put an overhead gas fired oven. It was literally working in a sweat shop to use the machine for 8 hours...But it was cooking with gas, so about 4 minutes to heat a 4x4 sheet.
I absolutely love the ingenuity involved in this build. This gives me great ideas for building mine with a few revisions. Great video thanks.
Thanks for watching! We're super glad you found it helpful :)
Nice build!
Loved the panel!
Your a biilder and an artist!
Congratulations!
to get a better heat on your plastic, after the plastic has heated say 3/4" of the way to temperature, flip the entire piece and finish heating the other side all the way to the finished temperature. Those heaters are INFRARED heaters, so they heat items by reflecting IR light off them. Like standing in the sun makes you feel warm as you absorb the IR light.
Thanks for the tip!
We made a similar vacuum table, but on a much larger scale, as we were producing pan faces for cabinet signs. We hung our 10’ X10’ plastic sheets in a cabinet then heated them till they were malleable with a torpedo heater.
Oh wow!
Howdy Bill. Very interesting design. I would call it the "Fire Starter". Here's why. All of the commercial vacuum forming equipment that I have seen, always have the heat source at the top. The reason is gravity and how plastics react when they are heated. If you have your heat source on the bottom, the material you are using will droop towards your heat source. If you do not pay close attention to the temperature of the material, it can sag enough to separate from the frame or develop a split and fall onto the heat source and now you have a toxic fire to deal with inside a wooden box. If you are not familiar with the material and or you do not know the exact temperature for vacuum forming you are risking a fire using this method. Also, you are using wood for the frame, which has the potential to smolder and catch fire. The glues that are used in most plywood manufacturing processes are toxic when they are heated and can cause eye and lung irritation when they are released. An aluminum or steel frame would be much safer than the wooden fire box you built. I hope you never have an incident with this apparatus, but I personally would never allow this design to be used where I work and teach. Thanks for posting the build and good luck.
Good points; if you build a machine like this you are assuming a bit risk. I would argue that you should always pay close attention to the temperature of the material for the duration of operating the machine. Many of the other machines I've seen made are built from wood and I've never heard of one catching fire, so I *think* we're OK there too.
Hello Bill. Thanks for the response. Yes, there is always risk. I have yet to see a wooden one. I guess they have not made it up to the Great White North as yet. Must be a slow migration. Take Care.
41:11 Get a sheet of 3/8" ply, set your mold on it and trace an outline about a 1/2" all around. Cut out the shape and add some wood slats to stiffen it up. This will fit over your mold so you want to round the edge that will contact the plastic with a router...make sure its very smooth. Heat your mold so its very warm to hot to the touch. Bring down the hot plastic sheet down enough so the frame you made can slide down (its also warmed). when the both the plastic sheet is on the table apply the vacuum and use the frame to guide the plastic to the table. It takes practice and I was building vac tables and moulds back in the 70's.
Regarding the vacuum on/off, always handy to have someone hidden behind the counter, but a foot switch count be a nice addition!
Oh, I am definitely building one of these for my classroom! Yes! Vacuum forming AND VR all in the same year! Thanks again, guys.
Right on!
to get more detail in your results you need to create vacuum at the top of your form. With the last one you would have to create a channel under the bottom and make small holes up to the top. The holes would be places along edges where you want the plastic to be pulled into. To soften out the webbing and deformation at the edges you can use clay and round out the edges to the table a little bit. I use to work at a place that made pool parts and some were vacuum formed. The guy who designed and built the forms had it down to a science. He could build a form and within a couple tries get the exact parts we needed, adding only a few holes here and there or some molding clay.
A couple of thoughts:
1 - There is a lot of time between pulling the plastic off the heater and starting the vacuum, allowing the plastic to cool. Turn on the vacuum before removing the plastic from the heater. It won't start pulling until you seal the frame to the table, but will then pull immediately, while the plastic is still very hot.
2 - Wire your heaters in series and plug them into a 240v outlet, I'm sure you have one in your shop. It will only pull 12 amps, and you won't have to mess around with all the cords running to different outlets, etc.
Thanks for the suggestions! =)
Add spikes under spring tension around your frame to keep the plastic from pulling out. Heat from top & bottom quickly poking the plastic to test the playability. Also, try covering the vacuum holes that are not in use for a stronger vacuum. Good luck!
Great video, dig the long format and exploration of mistakes and having to replan halfway. It's always how these sorta projects actually go.
Doesn't look like you're having too much trouble with the suction, but might still be worth it to get a proper 4" inlet flange on the bottom of the table to connect to the hose, and caulk seal it down. I'm sure you're leaking at least some vacuum with just the wood-to-pipe connection there.
I think the first thing I upgrade on this will be the suction, thanks for the tips!
With that heat, I'd put in a caution to do this in a space as large as Bill's or outside (like drag it out of the garage) because of MDF's propensity to offgas urea-formaldehyde, the glue that creates MDF.
Also, Id throw in a tread pedal switch to turn off/on the vacuum, so one person could operate the process.
A tread pedal would be ideal for sure! And yes, it's definitely good to be cautious with high heat in small areas!
Thats pretty awesome! Just an FYI, you can weld aluminum fairly easily without a welder. You just need to heat up the corner with a torch and rub an aluminum welding rod in there.
Thank you for sharing this informative and educational video. It demystifies the process of thermoforming.
Wonderful!