Just to add another vote for kayaks. Since switching from canoe to kayaks, the arguments my wife and I had in the canoe have stopped. She can paddle wherever and however she likes, even if she is still wrong. IMHO
Once when my wife was right and she was in a kayak, she walked the river bank back to the truck while the kayak was pinned under a tree. In a canoe, she can be right or wrong because I’m steering.
Paddling a canoe in the ocean, as I do with my partner, definitely has drawbacks, (e.g. limited in high wind and waves, difficulty doing a self rescue, slower), however as you mentioned, there are advantages (e.g. comfort, ease of portaging). Another one to consider assumes that most advanced kayakers prefer to paddle solo because tandem kayaks can be quite cumbersome. Being in a tandem canoe enables couples to be together and each paddle as hard as they want without distancing themselves from the other if they were in solo kayaks. While kayaks are faster, there's not much difference over a whole day. Consider going on an overnight or multi day trip. A kayaker averages 6 km/h. That's just over 4 hours for a 25 km day. We average 5 km/h in our canoe, so we'd take 5 hours, an hour more, for the same distance. However, we load or unload gear and ourselves in under 5 minutes, while a kayaker might take upwards of 30 minutes. Taking that into account, we cover the same distance in roughly the same time. Finally, there's cost. Given similar quality, a canoe costs about the same as a kayak. However, couples who canoe only need one boat. So essentially canoes are half the price.
Great points. I have and love both. One thing is, if you're out with two people, being in a canoe is generally much more social, as it's easier to communicate.
Multi-day kayaking can be easier if you are accustomed to multi-day hiking trips. If you pack half the house and the kitchen sink, the canoe is really the only option. I can fit 3-4 days of gear and food into a single hatch and a single dry bag easily. It's definitely NOT what most people would call comfortable, but many weight conscious hikers would consider my kit "excessive". I don't paddle bays and lakes often, so my portages are usually not much longer than the distance required to get by a low head dam. With that being said, if I was paddling with someone who is not like minded or required more comforts, the canoe would be the way to go. I don't think either is 'better'. It's like deciding between a truck or a car. Both do some things much better than the other.
I can pack double in a kayak than I can comfortably carry on a long distance hike. 80lbs v 40lbs. Seems like a luxury once you're allowed to double your load.
thanks, as an ultralight hiker I didnt see the point when in the video the dude says that you cant be that comfortable in a kaykak, i fit into my small pack everything to stay comfortable in the mountains so why I wouldnt in a river?
@@francescoecobi His comment is about seating positions. In a kayak you sit upright with your legs stretched out for pretty much the entire journey, in a canoe, you can move around. In a canoe you can keep all your gear for camping in a backpack, my pack has to be emptied to fit in the kayak
Key points from the summary: Canoes are praised for: Multi-day trips requiring lots of gear Ease of portaging (carrying over land) Family trips (can accommodate kids, dogs, etc.) Comfort and ability to change sitting positions Kayaks are favored for: Versatility in various water conditions Lower center of gravity and better stability Speed and efficiency Better performance in windy conditions Ease of solo paddling The speaker acknowledges that sea kayaks are preferable for ocean trips due to safety in rough water. While expressing a personal preference for kayaks, the speaker appreciates both vessel types for their respective strengths. The video encourages viewers to share their thoughts in the comments and subscribe to the "Paddle TV" channel for more paddling tips and adventures. The transcript provides a balanced view of both canoes and kayaks, highlighting their strengths in different scenarios without definitively claiming one is universally better than the other.
Right now I'm digging my solo canoe. It's super nice just throwing my gear and not messing about with hatches. Of course, each has its own pros and cons. Just happy to be paddling anything at the end of the day!
I hear you! I tried a Swift Pack Boat this year, which is a canoe/kayak hybrid. It's super light and open like a canoe, but it has a seat and foot pegs so that you can paddle it like a kayak if you want to. Great for inexperienced canoeists to paddle solo in windy conditions.
Ooo do enjoy! I do suggest if you already hadn't, wait until winter to buy it instead and plan for next year. The price triples on beginner kayaks... Oorr buy a good one your first time around :P
Good discussion. I think, in the end, its whatever is most comfortable to you. You didn't include C-1 in your discussion. Perhaps very few people know about them. A C-1 is a decked canoe. To the uninitiated it looks like a kayak. A kayaker sits with on the bottom of the boat with legs in front (under the deck) and uses a double bladed paddle. A C-1 paddler KNEELS in the cockpit on a small seat and uses a single bladed paddle with a T grip. A kayak has more power because each stroke is a power stroke. A canoeist must stroke-recover, stroke-recover -- however a canoe stroke uses more torso muscles and even quadriceps when paddling. A canoeist is sitting up higher & can read water more easily. There are many more fine points to differences, but you should choose what you like best.
Great job! Long time sea kayaker here. The differences show up on river trips! On a mixed (kayak/canoe) river trip, I saw every canoe blown to the wrong side of a wide river, while we kayakers eased along with no problem. On another river trip, the water was shallow and we had to frequently hop out and walk boats. Sea kayaks are not great for hopping in and out. I wished I had a canoe that day! Finally, if anyone in a kayak has a drink from a single-use bottle (less common now!) having someone in a canoe along is great because you can throw the empty in the canoe sort of like a garbage can.
Another point for canoes is they’re cooler in the summer. In extreme heat, such as mid summer in the Deep South, a kayak turns into a pressure cooker. The heat inside becomes miserable. The open air design of the canoe makes it much more comfortable in 100 degree temps with direct sun. That’s why I opt for a hybrid (Old Town Next). Low center of gravity and maneuverability of a kayak, but open air and storage capacity of a canoe. It can swamp like a canoe, but I don’t do any serious rapids so that’s not a concern for me. So it’s a perfect boat for me.
You hit all of the issues that I have experienced especially the wind issue . I paddled in to a bay on the south side of Detroit reservoir in Oregon it was dead calm. 30 minutes after I got to where I was going to start fish I was in 3’ waves and 20 mph wind it took me 4 hours to work my way back to the main lake. I was also having to deal with power boaters blasting by at full throttle. Four multi day trips with a load of gear they are great or family day trips. I to prefer the Kayak for most of my needs.
I agree with everything you've said & I own both a canoe & several kayaks - started with the former first many decades ago. I would add one additional point to your list of pros & cons. If you are doing multiple ins & outs of the craft, especially if you have mobility issues or are aging, the canoe can be easier to get in & out of than a kayak. For solo paddling, the kayak is my choice, especially if there are winds. For 2+ people, the canoe has advantages. Just my opinions FYI. Watch a lot of your vids up here in the north.
I love them all. Most recently I used an NRS inflatable kayak to run the Snake River, it was cool. But my love is my canoe, because I'm a mountain man. It's old and has a a ton of patches from getting banged up on the rivers. I've only run a few Class 3 rapids in my canoe, it's just a big kayak to me.
Hey Ken, I was there when you started at Wilderness Tours! Im a canoe always have been always will be, however, whatever gets you out that's what is best!
That's why you gotta have both for different occasions and needs , it's like 4runner and quad. Awesome choice if you can have both, but all the facts are top notch Sir , as a Canoer I agree with everything. Best short review with strong factors and facts. I do a lot of Bushcraft 2-3 days in the wilderness that's why I'm a canoer. Thanks a lot 🙏
Got a background in small boats of 40 yrs.... rowing, sailing, tidal,, coastal, windsports... recently got kayaks and canoe due for inland waters. I agree 100% with your conclusions.
Good video, thanks. I switched from a kayak to canoe about three years ago after kayaking for maybe 20 years. Two main re3ason I do a limited amount of camping and found that difficult with the kayak as you mentioned. The second reason is that I do a lot of fishing and find an open canoe far superior to a kayak for this.
I just saw this video and wanted to say thank you. your the first person who has reviewed the Kayak and Canoe with true openmindedness. I agree with everything you say. Each has it place and strengths. I have been battling this with my wife for years. Although you must understand I come from a second generation Canoist family, and I use a monster paddle and have extreme upper body strength and endurance. In a kayak, my wife can out run me hands down without a question no matter what I do, however in my dad's 70 year old cedar/canvas 18' trappers canoe with my favorite paddle (12" wide x 36" Long blade), I can out run her solo. I know I am the exception. Again thank you for this video and all of your others, I watch them intently and look forward to more. By the way you should try to promote taking disabled people out in the canoe its great therapy. I know I am a two times cancer survivor who has mobility problems.
Thanks! I agree on using paddling/outdoors as a therapy technique. I have some good friends who are very active and successful doing so with 'Heroes on the Water'. Cheers!
I'd say you nailed it. I paddle both, I've done multi day trips in both, and day fishing trips in both. My kayak is my go to for fun trips in challenging or unknown waters, the canoe when I need to bring more gear, do portages or jump in and out frequently to fish. That's the one point you missed in the comparison, the canoe is easier to get in and out of.
Older people have a real problem just getting In or out of a kayak. I just prefer the canoe over a kayak for fishing because you can get at your gear much easier. And also move around when you start cramping. Can you just imagine trying to get a cramp out of your leg in a kayak. OMG ! Things you must think about as you get older. Thanks for your thoughts.👍🇨🇦
All good points but one. I use a kayak-style paddle in my canoe, and a lot of people do now. So you can canoe having two blades in the water it's becoming more and more popular.
Very true! I recently did a gear review of a Swift Packboat - an ultralight canoe/kayak hybrid. Here's a link if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/iQBFDyOJ5Ks/видео.html
Normally a kayaker myself, I was limited to canoeing because that's all I could rent at the small park in my neighborhood (Bangkok). To keep my kayak skills up, I added about 2' to my kayak paddle and used that in the rental canoes. Made a big, favorable difference in my ability to get around in the canoe. A few weeks in, I started seeing other renters bringing their own kayak paddles.
A very good summary. I would add that a high quality canoe (excellent hull design) has both primary and secondary stability, with secondary stability far exceeding that of most kayaks, so concluding that "stability" of a kayak is better is not really correct when you consider really good canoes. Also (for really good canoes), a spray skirt can cover the entire deck making the boat almost as impervious to rain and waves as a kayak. For this reason numerous world record paddling expeditions (including thousands of km of sea-paddling) have been carried out in canoes that are so equipped, though admittedly, this is not the norm; by default, kayaks are better than "normal" canoes in this respect. Thanks for this excellent comparison!
@@keithmoriyama5421 one could argue that a vessel that is designed to roll over easily is NOT about stability it is about nimble recovery... ye don't learn "the eskimo roll" as a canoeist. :D
We are primarily kayakers. We can each paddle where we want. We do multi day (4-5) and location selection is influenced by portages. We avoid them and prefer Georgian Bay Islands for trips now. I like to think of the kayak as a sports car and the canoe is a pick up truck. We took 2 novice paddlers and put them in the canoe while we took our kayaks. Cargo capacity of the canoe is a game changer on what you can choose to bring with you.
Got my hands onto a canoe only recently, you are so right about the impact of wind while canoeing solo. During a headwind I really have to switch my paddle left and right a lot. Wonder if there’s any technique i can use to make it more manageable.
The easiest thing to do... use a long kayak paddle! That's what I do when paddling solo in the wind. Watch this video: ruclips.net/video/7YWyuWXBdH0/видео.htmlsi=-gllRzjd-j30BsU7
I have canoed for years and recently started kayaking because i feel there are so many cool paddling options available these days, it would be rude not too! The kayak is still scary at the moment being new, but i have found i can utilise strokes from canoeing such as sculling and draw strokes. I will persist and hopefully be as smooth as you make it look one day ! Thank you for your time and effort in making these videos for us. It looks like a terrible job and i don't know how you cope ! ha ha! Happy paddling guy's. Tom from the UK
Seaward (A Canadian company) makes excellent touring kayaks for multiple day excursions. I owned one for a while in Florida. I sold it to a Canadian couple. I only did overtime trips. And didn't need the extra volume.
Good to see you here Champ! I competed in the '97 Worlds on the Ottawa as well, in OC-1. You had a great rodeo. Canoes vs. Kayaks? I'll say what I always say. "Half the paddle, twice the man." : )
Have both, my solo canoe with a double bladed paddle is the winner for me. My canoe can do everything my friends kayaks can (maybe not as well) but their kayaks can’t do what my canoe can. Best of both worlds. I only disagree on one point… stability. I can stand and paddle on my canoe to get a glimpse of the river ahead. Most kayak cockpits, at least those setup with a skirt or more for ww, would undoubtedly tip if you tried to maneuver your way to a standing position. A canoe will displace more water, more stability.
I have been paddling for 40+ years now and started with a pirogue (I grew up in south Louisiana) and moved up to a canoe then moved to the west coast and moved up again to a kayak. I agree completely wit your comments all have their place depending on the situation. Something I learned about a few years ago is a pack canoe which is suppose to be the best of both worlds. They are light like a canoe but you sit on the floor to paddle like a kayak. I haven't paddled one yet but I would like to try one and see if they are as tipsy as a canoe which is what I always hated about canoes.
If you can kneel, canoes are not "tipsy". With any boat, the secret to being secure in rough water is loose hips, letting the boat rock somewhat freely beneath you (within reason, as at some point a brace might be needed). When kneeling you can let the canoe rock an extreme amount while your body remains centered, but at the same time, distributing some of your weight on the floor via your knees (about half your weight is still on the seat when kneeling) greatly reduces the need to worry about such things in the first place. I've been kneeling in canoes for almost 20 years and would never go back to plain old sitting. Even if you can't kneel for hours at a time like some people, you might be able to kneel long enough for those short passages through whitewater or during a windy crossing.
@@ericl2969 I will try that but I don't know how long I can kneel. I like the idea of the weight savings and capacity of a canoe over a kayak but my experience over the past 40 years has been kayak open water on all the coast in the US as well as many small rivers.Have you ever paddled a pack canoe like the swift? You actually sit in it on the floor like a kayak that is what I have been think about getting since I am retiring to Arkansas.
@@kevchard5214 For the coastal paddling you describe, the kayak certainly has the advantage. And it would not be unusual for someone your age (you've been paddling 40 years) to have lost the ability to kneel in a canoe for long periods, but the idea seemed worth mentioning. As to the packboat question, I can only offer this: I have a couple of "canoe-shaped" rowboats with seats that are just a few inches off the floor (one of them is actually has the words "Pack Boat" as part of the model name), and they are stable to the point of being nearly idiot-proof. I would expect similar attributes in a true pack canoe that has the seat set so low. It would be great if you could find a way to test paddle a pack canoe (or any other boat) before buying, but many of us don't get that option.
@@ericl2969 I agree but like you said trying one is not a option for me. It looks like they are popular in Canada but no so much her in the lower 48. I will never give up kayaking I have very fond memories paddling the west , south and east coast but a 60 lbs kayak is a little heavy if you have to portage in small rivers but was great in oceans surf. My oldest kayak(early 1980s vintage) has seen water from north and south California as well as both sides of Florida and Georgia coast but moving inland changes ones perspectives.
I agree with you 100%. I'm a canoe where though . I'm 65 canoeing for 40 years. I'd like the room I like sitting and I can. I like the ice chest and all the goodies that go with it. I have kayak. Much easier to get around especially in the wind.
Don't forget the Klepper style folding kayaks and the Kruger canoes. A folding kayak has a similar payload to a canoe. A Kruger can handle some of the toughest seas. And how about your Trak for a portage? That being said, the largest selling segment in kayaks are now those huge sit on top fishing kayaks which really don't have much in the way of the benefits you mentioned. Sadly, sea kayaking is a dying breed in the US. It's rare to see anyone under 40 in a sea kayak.
I don’t argue over which is better. Each has their advantages and disadvantages, and it all depends on what you want to do. I’ve been around both and I like both. I like the pirogue too, especially in the swamp. It all depends on what I’m doing.
I am a river man. I build my rods and tie my dry flies. I build my kayaks after owning a 16 foot Canuck square ender. Over 50 years ago my buddies and I started floating the S fork ot the Flathead from the Bob Marshal to the dude ranch 12 miles down stream. The last evening, Bob and I were on a sand bar about half mile upstream. We were talking and thinking about how nice it would be to stay on the river and how little we would need to do that. We shared a two man military surplus boat but if each man had his own boat and other necessities, we could go into the Bob Marshal, 30 miles and float out. The following August we checked in to Birch Glen on Swan Lake with our families and the three of us hiked to Holland Lake, up over Pendant Pass and down to Big Salmon Lake, packed up and hiked another mile to the S Fork or the Flathead River. We each had packs just under 50 pounds, containing our Sevylor blow up boats, our beds with a tarp, and gear for a week. We also had kid sized canoe paddles that we used for a walking stick Our fly rods were attached to the side of our packs. We had a pistol, first aid kit, camera, hatchet, dry noodles, canned bacon, fry pan, boiling pot. Turned out that each of us had added snake bite medicine although only one fifth was designated. By 10 am we were on the river and "throwing cutthroats over both shoulders". Our favorite river song was Delta Dawn. What a great trip, 30 miles hiking in and floating 30 miles out. Had to pack out the last two miles when the river turned on edge. I talked to Jim the other day and remined him, that was 45 years ago. We had five more float trips together on the Blackfoot. Bob is gone but we still meet often in our dreams. Iguana
I used a Folbot in the Boundary Waters for a multi day trip. I rigged up a canoe yolk that I could remove easily. It was great when I had a big wave day on one of the larger lakes as I had a spray skirt. But a guy going light and with an UL solo canoe caught up with me at the end of a portage and threw in his pack and was off while I was still packing my kayak. I love canoes but it depends on where you live. It is like bicycles, you got to have a few!
I love that as a kayaker you don't slam canoes but give the advantages of both 🙂 I have a few more awesomnesses to add to the canoe side. When our kids were younger we fit our family of 5 plus everything we needed for a 10-day free crownland holiday into our 17-foot canoe. I'm waterfront director at a kids' camp near Ottawa and I hate when canoes are shunned by beginners because it's easier to track a kayak straight without learning specific strokes. I guard standing in my 14-foot fixer-upper canoe using canoeing strokes with a kayak paddle (keeping a canoeing paddle in the boat, too). It's stable and maneuverable, forward, backward, can turn on a dime ... And I can easily shuttle kids between the docks and the water trampoline by sitting them down by my feet (weight all in one spot) and don't have to worry about banging the paddle into them because I'm standing above them. I leave the fully equipped canoe tied to the dock all summer and it's super easy to empty in seconds after a rain.
I hear you! I just finished a 5-day canoe trip in Killarney Provincial Park with the family. The 3 of us took an 18-foot canoe, and we had tons of space! Love canoe trips... love that park too! Algonquin is amazing, but I've been finding myself driving the extra 4 hours to go to Killarney for the past 5 years. Cheers!
If I have to chose (ie just one boat) its got to be the traditional open canoe. Its just so versatile. I can solo or take the family, paddle with a single or double paddle, from any position in the boat, kneeling, sitting or even standing. I can pole, row or sail (best way to deal with wind on open water, use it). Plus I know I can do a solo deep water recovery with a canoe, my kayak skills are no where near that good (re-enter and roll? I can't roll reliably). I'd like a sea kayak but it would have to be as well as a canoe, not instead of.
I have 1 canoe and 2 kayaks...fishing kayak...rec kayak...16 foot canoe and a new solo canoe coming...got most bases covered....one or the other does not do everything well...
Regarding speed and lower center of gravity... I would add that a small solo canoe with a pedestal seat for a kneeling position, and using a double bladed paddle will give you a very fast and stable boat. Much easier on your back too
I wonder if you have ever done the bowron lakes chain in British Columbia. It is a chain of lakes connected by a number of portages a little over 100 kilometres. I have done it twice with a kayak taking six days both times and my brother has done it many more times than that. If you know how to pack and what to pack it’s no problem to go for multi day trips in a kayak.
I own both a canoe and sea kayak and like them both, but in reading through most of the comments didn't see any mention that canoeing has more paddle strokes than kayaking. Granted that makes canoeing harder to learn, but I enjoy doing the different canoe strokes over the simple kayak strokes. That said if you want to go fast pick a kayak.
That's one of the reasons I love mixing it up and hopping into both kayaks and canoes. Keeps things interesting, and develops different skills. Cheers!
For most conditions there is a large common overlap between a canoe and kayak . Each has its' advantages that shine in the extremes of this overlap. My solution has always been to use a decked Kruger canoe. Can not hold a family though. But best of both worlds for solo paddling :-)
What it comes down to is that kayaking is easy enough to learn to get into and do a river trip sooner. You can spend a morning solo or tandem learning the basics, pack, and go. Canoeing doesn't work like that especially solo. And tandem can be very difficult to master until you find a practiced enthusiast to partner with. However there is nothing as spectacular as taking a canoe down a set of difficult rapids with all of your gear and with the knowledge and experience to do so safely and efficiently. You are truly self-reliant and free, not to mention the feeling of watching a kayaker make the same run and think to yourself "hmmm...half the paddle, twice the man (or woman)."
nice video i paddled the full length of the river rhine, 1000 plus km two years ago with my dog and so many of your points where valid. at times especially paddling 10 hours a day often i was dreaming of a canoe to stretch my legs out especially since the dog would sit on them somethimes. i was glad though for the kayak as there was some rapid sections and later on big waves from the barges and i wouldnt have fancied being in a canoe then. also was a pain with the portage around dams and i left a lot of plastic on the ground too and eventually a hole in my boat. i didnt find carrying gear a problem with the kayak and i had a lot usually two weeks worth of food and dog food and way too many unnecessary things im sure one could lighten the load even more than i did.
@@PaddleTV lots learnt the hard way my only real regret was not bringing a kayak trolley i had to do 3 trips around the rhine falls with all my gear, about 30km up steep hills it took me the whole day i would recommend everyone brings wheels if you have to portage more than a km. still best decsion i ever made, i'm planning the Danube source to sea for next year now currently.
Didn’t mention fishing. I have a fully rigged pedal drive fishing kayak, and it’s great. But half the time my comfortable little 12’ solo canoe is the perferred craft. 33 lb vs 90. Simpler, lighter, more maneuverable, you stay drier if it’s cold, can handle shallow water where the pedal drive and rudder can’t.
Thank you for the video. I'm looking to get into the sport. I hate swimming but want to enjoy the waterways here in the Pacific northwest. I appreciate your time and content.
I think it's a preference. I can take my kayaks anywhere I canoe.I can't take a canoe everywhere I kayak. Equipment wise, I have loaded upwards of 200 lbs in my Jackson Karma RG. And have done 5 day self contained trips. I prefer my kayak. But I do love paddling all kinds of crafts. And for extremely long trips. I prefer a raft.
Its clear a kayak has the attributes you mention, and worthy of consideration. It all depends on the personal use and situation. Myself I prefer the open canoe, when encountering multiple beaver dams for example the ease of in and out of the boat is greatly appreciated in a canoe. Another aspect Paddle TV should cover is Poling a canoe, with low summer waters a pole is a great tool for your canoe, to slow and pick, snubbing, your way down the river or to push your way up the river.
Good points. Also a spray cover on a canoe makes them more adept at open water and big waves although still no match for a sea kayak in big open water.
Im a kayaker, been in a canoe once and found the stability was a lot better in my old town vapor 10 then what it was in the canoe. However, a canoe has more options for things like mounting a motor or some stabilizers and even a sail. That said, i like to go in many different types of waters such as coastal, so i tend to stay with kayaks but i still can see the uses of a canoe.
Every kayak has a different 'max capacity', which they manufacturer will identify in its specifications. It typically ranges from 300 to 500 lbs, although for practical purposes, I would assume 50 lbs less than the posted 'max capacity'.
I have been canoeing for some years now, I have also owned a kayak. I prefer the canoe because It is more easy to get in and out of. And because I paddle solo, I paddle my canoe with a kayak paddle.
It takes a few years of practice get fairly good at paddling a solo canoe with a standard single-blade paddle, but oh, it opens up a whole new world of boat control. I started out paddling solo with a double-blade paddle too, but would never go back to paddling that way now. To each his own, though.
I am an advid Canoeist , I have canoed various rivers in North America and I have Canoed the south gulf Island in British Columbia were I lived on Mayne Island ,Ive always loved the canoe over the kyake for the same reasone you said , you can bring more gear and is way easyer to portage, I love bring my cast iron and camp as did the explorers did whne they first came to Canada, I have canoed the ocean you just need to make sure you do so on good weather days and dont stray to close to shore is there is a surge of waves that crash up against the rocky shore line , I follow shorelines instead of crossing large bodies of water and if I do have to cross a large bodei of water I fine the shortest rout across, even if it means a whole day or more to get to that crossing, Im getting ready to do the longest trip of my life this spring if I can find some one that would take care of my cat for me , I plan on travleing from the tip of the great lakes threw the chicago river to the Mississippi to the gulf of Mexico threw the Panama Canel up the Pacific to Vancouver Island threw active pass and across to Vancouver Island , Once Ive done this I pland to rest for a year and then continue north to Alaska cross the Barien sea to Russia and south along China untill I come arround Africa and then North up the Atlantic Ocean to Egnland , along these routs north Im going to go off cousre abit and I want to Canoe the Ganges rive aswell I wish to canoe the river Thems
Thanks for the information. I too hate paddling a canoe solo due to winds etc. What I'm wondering is how big water can you take a tripping kayak through? For example the Cline River canyon can be done with a whitewater kayak. What about a tripping one?
It really depends on your skill level and the specifics of a tripping kayak. I follow another channel (Gatewood Brown) and that dude takes fishing kayaks down whitewater regularity. That said, it isn't going to handle that situation like a whitewater boat. A tripping boat is heavier and less maneuverable. I'd approach it like I would if I were running the rapids in a canoe more than a kayak. Never trusting that I can make course corrections quickly. Scout rapids and makes sure to run them at the ideal angle, don't plan to adjust course mid rapid. Also, be willing to line or port rapids that could be risky.
I'm 62 and 5 ' 9 slender build and am going to get the Old Town solo sportsman canoe 119 hybrid for it'll act as a kayak while using the 250cm kayak paddle and can carry more gear as well If I want too for it has both of best world's in a solo boat for my purposes !!!
Both look great to me. I do not have either boat nor have I ever been in either. I understand how the kayak has a greater extreme durability; but, I also enjoy the idea of carrying larger loads. I need to state that I am a hobby photographer so I'd be packing some gear. But, I also consider going past canoes and getting a sea worthy row boat.
I would check out a recreational sit-on-top kayak for photography... something over 30" wide so that it's super stable. You can even look at an inflatable sit-on-top kayak for ease of transport and stowing. Check out the NRS Pike review I just did. I think it would be a great photography boat for calm water.
You pretty much made my argument for me to show my wife. I need both for sure. It’s basically like asking what’s better a Corvette or a pick up. It really depends what you’re doing that day.
The pack boat makes this discussion obsolete. Checkout Swift packboats used by a number of RUclips presenters. I am a 70 year old Canadian canoeist. I use a pack boat which is a 14’ canoe hull with a kayak seat . This I can paddle with a kayak paddle. Or a canoe paddle and it’s capacity is all you need for a multi week trip , held in canoe packs. While weighing under 30 pounds. None portage trips in deep water where you don’t need to disembark due to sandbars is where an ocean kayak shines.
Given the intro I thought you were very fair to canoes. I’m a canoe guy, and would’ve explained it the exact same way. I canoe because I can get to better hunting spots and can put the whole family in when we go fishing at the lake. An extra plus I’d give to kayaks is that the seem easier to travel with on vehicles. Canoes are tricky for trucks and easier for SUVs I had to get a 13’ canoe so I could just put it in the truck bed.
In addition in a canoe solo in the wind you sit in the back vs in the center making it more susceptible to the wind. The rudder or skeg also helps with tracking in wind. The balanced stroke of a double bladed paddle is more efficient than a j stroke with a canoe that looses efficiency paddling backwards.
My Issue has been Heat. Was curious if U have kayaked in Hot climates, Slow water..? And Ur thoughts..? Wrapped Up in the Yak, it can get warm here in the Texas/OKL Summer..
Absolutely. It can be hot in a sit-inside kayak... but the flip side is that your legs are shaded from the sun. In really hot environments (like Texas and OKL in the summer) sit-on-top kayaks are very popular because you can just swing your legs over the sides of the kayak and into the water... or even just splash your legs with water, because the water will just drain out. If you do that in a canoe or sit-inside kayak, the water stays in your boat until you get to shore and empty it, or use a sponge, which is something I always bring.
I am a pro Photographer and canoe is the way to go if you're going to do wildlife and landscape photography can carry all the equipment you need easily and also very easy to get in and out of
Great breakdown. Those have been my takes too. I love the excitement of WW, and a kayak can handle it easier, faster learn time, I believe, but.. I am looking towards longer trekking tandem trips, and thus packing gear , the canoe is my directional focus. Learning rapids on a canoe with good rocker, but then plan to spend most of my time treking or with grandkids fishing in canoe. Thank you.
Actually, a whitewater canoe can go anywhere a kayak can. I have a large poster of a local (Washington D.C.) champion canoe paddler going over a waterfall on the Potomac River!
My Mad River Slipper weighs only 42 lbs. and is easy to portage plus it loads quickly with my 50 lbs. of gear. Also very easy to car-top. Of course it is not as fast as a kayak and needs to avoid the big waves. But I can paddle it into a small chop. I will probably never own a kayak because I don't like not being able to change my position. On the canoe one can easily change from sitting to kneeling and can move legs as desired.
I understand carrying a kayak when doing a trip is hard, definitely if your yak is bigger than 11’ but I find kayak are a lot easier to anchor and fish and stand on, I have a 128x by ascend and it’s wide enough to stand in without tipping, canoe’s are a lot more fun if I want to do trips with others make it much easier to carry two peoples things and balance the weight better, another good thing about canoes is I can carry a lot of my gear more that I truly need but it’s nice to bring more than you need rather than not enough. Now when it does come to tipping it much easier to push over a yak and drain the water then it is a canoe and get all your gear back!! Hopefully this helps anyone trying to decide on what to get!
Enrolled in a sea kayak intro course and I will then progress gradually in kayaking. Does kayaking knowledge help to paddle and handle a canoe or does one also need to learn some canoeing basics?
Kayaking skills definitely help for handling a canoe. Even though the strokes are a little different, the paddle dexterity you develop from learning one craft helps with the other. You'll also develop an awareness for how your boat will react to different conditions/situations, which transfers over nicely. Of course, if you plan on doing some serious canoeing, like a multi-day river trip with current or whitewater, a canoeing course will still be invaluable.
I grew up canoeing on streams, lakes and bays in summertime South Jersey, so a canoe feels more "normal" to me, but I love my inflatable open kayak. Inflated I can load it on the car roof and port if myself to any of the lakes near Seattle and be in the water quickly.
Whats better Pickup Truck or Sedan?... Depends on your needs/wants, it is really like comparing Apples to Oranges. With that said, I'll share my experiences with Canoes/Kayaks. Just a quick disclaimer, this has been "my" experience with my canoe and kayaks, canoe's are not all the same, just like kayaks are not all the same. First off, the ease of me tossing the Kayak in the car and headed out for a quick paddle is a lot more doable then with the canoe. My back would kill me after a 5 hour day in the canoe, even with the sit-backers, in the Kayak, no problem. Ever year we do a multi-day winter River trip down the Delaware River, "Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area". and what I can tell you is, I'll never take a canoe down the river again. My latest trip down the river was in a kayak and it was the most pleasant trip I have had so far. Wind nearly killed me in the Canoe, we were in a head wind that literally would turn us sideways and blow us upstream. This year in the Kayak, we had a pretty rough headwind, the worst yet...no problem in the Kayak. As far as portaging, I look at it like this, 2 guys in a canoe with gear vs. 2 guys in 2 kayaks with gear. The canoe would be more of a chore to portage, two guys can easily carry 2 kayaks fully loaded. This is why I believe that to be true, well for me anyway...when you multi-day with a canoe, you unintentionally or intentionally bring too much crap, the Kayak sort of forces you to make better choices, anyhow that's my take on it.
Listened to your whole video. Very informative excellent presentation. Didn't want to have preconceived notions as i am a canoe guy(former 120 mile Marathon racer). When i started i had a 90 lb. Sawyer canoe built for abuse(2-person). My first years of practice were on the Devil River, Ossineke, Michigan(near Alpena, Mi.). Only a top guy in a short single kayak could even think about the extreme gradient, short hair pin turns, super fast water, fallen trees piled up on corners, narrow, some pure 2 foot deep white foam water, and not hurt himself or equipment. Later as i built 22--3/27--cedar strippers (racers-2 person C-2's) 18'-6" lg. we learned skills, and kept from damaging them. Knew Ralph Sawyer, Verlin Kruger(man paddled a 29,000 mile trip down the west coast to the tip of South America).
I have a question. I have a 16 ft. Mohawk canoe. I would like to try and paddle it solo. I had it for along time but it never really got used alot. It's in really good shape kept inside all the time. I see people paddling from the front seat facing toward the rear. I can't do that with this one because one of the support cross pieces only sits 4 inches from the seat. How can I paddle safely from the rear seat solo? Or should I try to find a third seat and put it in front of the cross menber?member? I'd be just behind center.
Paddling solo from the rear seat will never work well because the canoe's trim will be totally out of whack. The closer to the centre you get the, better. Putting in a third seat could definitely work. Another option would be to sell that canoe, and buy another 2nd hand canoe. It might not cost you anything extra, and you'd have a canoe designed to paddle solo.
@@PaddleTV thank you for the advise. I appreciate it. I thought about buying a 12 or 13 foot for Solo. I have a Old Town 10 foot trip deluxe Fishing Kayak now also. But I want to Canoe you be able to carry more weight to overnight with. I weigh 285 so I'm not a little guy. My Kayak is rated for 325#. So I'm good for day tripping.
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Good points. I paddle both, but consider myself more of a canoeist. I think of the kayak as the sports car and the canoe as the SUV.
Yep! I totally agree! Great way to look at it.
I love that analogy I’m more of kayaker myself but you can’t argue with the utility of a canoe.
I believe the technical term is canoodler 😉
A Canoe
I always thought of both as bikes of the water. Small motorboats as motorcycles, and big boats as cars
Just to add another vote for kayaks. Since switching from canoe to kayaks, the arguments my wife and I had in the canoe have stopped. She can paddle wherever and however she likes, even if she is still wrong. IMHO
Nononono, my friend, your wife is ALWAYS right
Lol. Great point!
Once when my wife was right and she was in a kayak, she walked the river bank back to the truck while the kayak was pinned under a tree. In a canoe, she can be right or wrong because I’m steering.
Then never buy a tandem kayak-- They're called divorce boats.
@@keithmoriyama5421 I think the issue isn't the kayak :P
Paddling a canoe in the ocean, as I do with my partner, definitely has drawbacks, (e.g. limited in high wind and waves, difficulty doing a self rescue, slower), however as you mentioned, there are advantages (e.g. comfort, ease of portaging).
Another one to consider assumes that most advanced kayakers prefer to paddle solo because tandem kayaks can be quite cumbersome. Being in a tandem canoe enables couples to be together and each paddle as hard as they want without distancing themselves from the other if they were in solo kayaks.
While kayaks are faster, there's not much difference over a whole day. Consider going on an overnight or multi day trip. A kayaker averages 6 km/h. That's just over 4 hours for a 25 km day. We average 5 km/h in our canoe, so we'd take 5 hours, an hour more, for the same distance. However, we load or unload gear and ourselves in under 5 minutes, while a kayaker might take upwards of 30 minutes. Taking that into account, we cover the same distance in roughly the same time.
Finally, there's cost. Given similar quality, a canoe costs about the same as a kayak. However, couples who canoe only need one boat. So essentially canoes are half the price.
Great points. I have and love both. One thing is, if you're out with two people, being in a canoe is generally much more social, as it's easier to communicate.
Good video. I'm a canoeist through and through. I'd rather paddle a canoe solo than go kayaking any day of the week.
Multi-day kayaking can be easier if you are accustomed to multi-day hiking trips. If you pack half the house and the kitchen sink, the canoe is really the only option. I can fit 3-4 days of gear and food into a single hatch and a single dry bag easily. It's definitely NOT what most people would call comfortable, but many weight conscious hikers would consider my kit "excessive". I don't paddle bays and lakes often, so my portages are usually not much longer than the distance required to get by a low head dam. With that being said, if I was paddling with someone who is not like minded or required more comforts, the canoe would be the way to go. I don't think either is 'better'. It's like deciding between a truck or a car. Both do some things much better than the other.
I can pack double in a kayak than I can comfortably carry on a long distance hike. 80lbs v 40lbs. Seems like a luxury once you're allowed to double your load.
thanks, as an ultralight hiker I didnt see the point when in the video the dude says that you cant be that comfortable in a kaykak, i fit into my small pack everything to stay comfortable in the mountains so why I wouldnt in a river?
@@francescoecobi His comment is about seating positions. In a kayak you sit upright with your legs stretched out for pretty much the entire journey, in a canoe, you can move around. In a canoe you can keep all your gear for camping in a backpack, my pack has to be emptied to fit in the kayak
Key points from the summary:
Canoes are praised for:
Multi-day trips requiring lots of gear
Ease of portaging (carrying over land)
Family trips (can accommodate kids, dogs, etc.)
Comfort and ability to change sitting positions
Kayaks are favored for:
Versatility in various water conditions
Lower center of gravity and better stability
Speed and efficiency
Better performance in windy conditions
Ease of solo paddling
The speaker acknowledges that sea kayaks are preferable for ocean trips due to safety in rough water.
While expressing a personal preference for kayaks, the speaker appreciates both vessel types for their respective strengths.
The video encourages viewers to share their thoughts in the comments and subscribe to the "Paddle TV" channel for more paddling tips and adventures.
The transcript provides a balanced view of both canoes and kayaks, highlighting their strengths in different scenarios without definitively claiming one is universally better than the other.
I totally agree with everything you said, on both boats. I've been doing both for 45 years. Love them both. That why I agree with you 100%.
Right now I'm digging my solo canoe. It's super nice just throwing my gear and not messing about with hatches. Of course, each has its own pros and cons. Just happy to be paddling anything at the end of the day!
I hear you! I tried a Swift Pack Boat this year, which is a canoe/kayak hybrid. It's super light and open like a canoe, but it has a seat and foot pegs so that you can paddle it like a kayak if you want to. Great for inexperienced canoeists to paddle solo in windy conditions.
@@PaddleTV did you try the 12ft vs.the 14ft?I want one,but undecided
I used the 14' foot boat. I actually did a full boat review on it too. Here's the link ruclips.net/video/iQBFDyOJ5Ks/видео.html
Amen
I agree with all your points. It really comes down to what your individual needs are to which one is more versatile too.
I love canoeing with my daughter and kayaking on my own. Both are delightful.
I've done both, but both have great attributes... Love em both!
For my 65th birthday in the spring I am buying my first kayak. I can't wait and already have a trip planned. Thanks for your tips as I am new to this.
Ooo do enjoy! I do suggest if you already hadn't, wait until winter to buy it instead and plan for next year. The price triples on beginner kayaks...
Oorr buy a good one your first time around :P
Good discussion. I think, in the end, its whatever is most comfortable to you. You didn't include C-1 in your discussion. Perhaps very few people know about them. A C-1 is a decked canoe. To the uninitiated it looks like a kayak. A kayaker sits with on the bottom of the boat with legs in front (under the deck) and uses a double bladed paddle. A C-1 paddler KNEELS in the cockpit on a small seat and uses a single bladed paddle with a T grip. A kayak has more power because each stroke is a power stroke. A canoeist must stroke-recover, stroke-recover -- however a canoe stroke uses more torso muscles and even quadriceps when paddling. A canoeist is sitting up higher & can read water more easily. There are many more fine points to differences, but you should choose what you like best.
Great job! Long time sea kayaker here. The differences show up on river trips! On a mixed (kayak/canoe) river trip, I saw every canoe blown to the wrong side of a wide river, while we kayakers eased along with no problem. On another river trip, the water was shallow and we had to frequently hop out and walk boats. Sea kayaks are not great for hopping in and out. I wished I had a canoe that day! Finally, if anyone in a kayak has a drink from a single-use bottle (less common now!) having someone in a canoe along is great because you can throw the empty in the canoe sort of like a garbage can.
Another point for canoes is they’re cooler in the summer. In extreme heat, such as mid summer in the Deep South, a kayak turns into a pressure cooker. The heat inside becomes miserable. The open air design of the canoe makes it much more comfortable in 100 degree temps with direct sun. That’s why I opt for a hybrid (Old Town Next). Low center of gravity and maneuverability of a kayak, but open air and storage capacity of a canoe. It can swamp like a canoe, but I don’t do any serious rapids so that’s not a concern for me. So it’s a perfect boat for me.
Solo canoe/ pack boat. With covers made, they are awesome on the open ocean also
You hit all of the issues that I have experienced especially the wind issue . I paddled in to a bay on the south side of Detroit reservoir in Oregon it was dead calm. 30 minutes after I got to where I was going to start fish I was in 3’ waves and 20 mph wind it took me 4 hours to work my way back to the main lake. I was also having to deal with power boaters blasting by at full throttle. Four multi day trips with a load of gear they are great or family day trips. I to prefer the Kayak for most of my needs.
Yikes! 4 hours to get back! Glad it worked out! :)
Great points, I agree totally as a River guide and a Maine sea kayak guide.
I agree with everything you've said & I own both a canoe & several kayaks - started with the former first many decades ago. I would add one additional point to your list of pros & cons. If you are doing multiple ins & outs of the craft, especially if you have mobility issues or are aging, the canoe can be easier to get in & out of than a kayak. For solo paddling, the kayak is my choice, especially if there are winds. For 2+ people, the canoe has advantages. Just my opinions FYI. Watch a lot of your vids up here in the north.
I love them all. Most recently I used an NRS inflatable kayak to run the Snake River, it was cool. But my love is my canoe, because I'm a mountain man. It's old and has a a ton of patches from getting banged up on the rivers. I've only run a few Class 3 rapids in my canoe, it's just a big kayak to me.
Hey Ken, I was there when you started at Wilderness Tours! Im a canoe always have been always will be, however, whatever gets you out that's what is best!
This is the first good explanation of the differences between the two I've watched.
That's why you gotta have both for different occasions and needs , it's like 4runner and quad. Awesome choice if you can have both, but all the facts are top notch Sir , as a Canoer I agree with everything. Best short review with strong factors and facts. I do a lot of Bushcraft 2-3 days in the wilderness that's why I'm a canoer. Thanks a lot 🙏
Got a background in small boats of 40 yrs.... rowing, sailing, tidal,, coastal, windsports... recently got kayaks and canoe due for inland waters. I agree 100% with your conclusions.
Different boats for different conditions. I really enjoy both.
Good video, thanks. I switched from a kayak to canoe about three years ago after kayaking for maybe 20 years. Two main re3ason I do a limited amount of camping and found that difficult with the kayak as you mentioned. The second reason is that I do a lot of fishing and find an open canoe far superior to a kayak for this.
I just saw this video and wanted to say thank you. your the first person who has reviewed the Kayak and Canoe with true openmindedness. I agree with everything you say. Each has it place and strengths. I have been battling this with my wife for years. Although you must understand I come from a second generation Canoist family, and I use a monster paddle and have extreme upper body strength and endurance. In a kayak, my wife can out run me hands down without a question no matter what I do, however in my dad's 70 year old cedar/canvas 18' trappers canoe with my favorite paddle (12" wide x 36" Long blade), I can out run her solo. I know I am the exception. Again thank you for this video and all of your others, I watch them intently and look forward to more. By the way you should try to promote taking disabled people out in the canoe its great therapy. I know I am a two times cancer survivor who has mobility problems.
Please contact me if you want to chat further.
Thanks! I agree on using paddling/outdoors as a therapy technique. I have some good friends who are very active and successful doing so with 'Heroes on the Water'. Cheers!
Nice makes since I go Jeeping in the mountains and can't fit 2 or 3 kayaks on the roof rack. Thanks
I'd say you nailed it. I paddle both, I've done multi day trips in both, and day fishing trips in both. My kayak is my go to for fun trips in challenging or unknown waters, the canoe when I need to bring more gear, do portages or jump in and out frequently to fish. That's the one point you missed in the comparison, the canoe is easier to get in and out of.
Depends on which kind of kayak you have. That used to be more true, but now they have sit on and sit in.
@@DennyT71 good point. But I've still never seen a sit on top that will carry as much as a 15' canoe.
Your right. Can't disagree euthanasia you on that.
Older people have a real problem just getting In or out of a kayak. I just prefer the canoe over a kayak for fishing because you can get at your gear much easier. And also move around when you start cramping. Can you just imagine trying to get a cramp out of your leg in a kayak. OMG ! Things you must think about as you get older. Thanks for your thoughts.👍🇨🇦
All good points but one. I use a kayak-style paddle in my canoe, and a lot of people do now. So you can canoe having two blades in the water it's becoming more and more popular.
Very true! I recently did a gear review of a Swift Packboat - an ultralight canoe/kayak hybrid. Here's a link if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/iQBFDyOJ5Ks/видео.html
Normally a kayaker myself, I was limited to canoeing because that's all I could rent at the small park in my neighborhood (Bangkok). To keep my kayak skills up, I added about 2' to my kayak paddle and used that in the rental canoes. Made a big, favorable difference in my ability to get around in the canoe. A few weeks in, I started seeing other renters bringing their own kayak paddles.
A very good summary. I would add that a high quality canoe (excellent hull design) has both primary and secondary stability, with secondary stability far exceeding that of most kayaks, so concluding that "stability" of a kayak is better is not really correct when you consider really good canoes. Also (for really good canoes), a spray skirt can cover the entire deck making the boat almost as impervious to rain and waves as a kayak. For this reason numerous world record paddling expeditions (including thousands of km of sea-paddling) have been carried out in canoes that are so equipped, though admittedly, this is not the norm; by default, kayaks are better than "normal" canoes in this respect.
Thanks for this excellent comparison!
A sea kayak is ALL about secondary stability! They are poor performers in primary stability.
@@keithmoriyama5421 one could argue that a vessel that is designed to roll over easily is NOT about stability it is about nimble recovery... ye don't learn "the eskimo roll" as a canoeist. :D
We are primarily kayakers. We can each paddle where we want. We do multi day (4-5) and location selection is influenced by portages. We avoid them and prefer Georgian Bay Islands for trips now. I like to think of the kayak as a sports car and the canoe is a pick up truck. We took 2 novice paddlers and put them in the canoe while we took our kayaks. Cargo capacity of the canoe is a game changer on what you can choose to bring with you.
Got my hands onto a canoe only recently, you are so right about the impact of wind while canoeing solo. During a headwind I really have to switch my paddle left and right a lot. Wonder if there’s any technique i can use to make it more manageable.
The easiest thing to do... use a long kayak paddle! That's what I do when paddling solo in the wind. Watch this video: ruclips.net/video/7YWyuWXBdH0/видео.htmlsi=-gllRzjd-j30BsU7
I have canoed for years and recently started kayaking because i feel there are so many cool paddling options available these days, it would be rude not too! The kayak is still scary at the moment being new, but i have found i can utilise strokes from canoeing such as sculling and draw strokes. I will persist and hopefully be as smooth as you make it look one day ! Thank you for your time and effort in making these videos for us. It looks like a terrible job and i don't know how you cope ! ha ha! Happy paddling guy's. Tom from the UK
Seaward (A Canadian company) makes excellent touring kayaks for multiple day excursions.
I owned one for a while in Florida. I sold it to a Canadian couple. I only did overtime trips. And didn't need the extra volume.
Good to see you here Champ! I competed in the '97 Worlds on the Ottawa as well, in OC-1. You had a great rodeo. Canoes vs. Kayaks? I'll say what I always say. "Half the paddle, twice the man." : )
Ha! I'm pretty sure the saying goes 'Twice the paddle, twice the man!' :)
Have both, my solo canoe with a double bladed paddle is the winner for me. My canoe can do everything my friends kayaks can (maybe not as well) but their kayaks can’t do what my canoe can. Best of both worlds.
I only disagree on one point… stability. I can stand and paddle on my canoe to get a glimpse of the river ahead. Most kayak cockpits, at least those setup with a skirt or more for ww, would undoubtedly tip if you tried to maneuver your way to a standing position. A canoe will displace more water, more stability.
I have been paddling for 40+ years now and started with a pirogue (I grew up in south Louisiana) and moved up to a canoe then moved to the west coast and moved up again to a kayak. I agree completely wit your comments all have their place depending on the situation. Something I learned about a few years ago is a pack canoe which is suppose to be the best of both worlds. They are light like a canoe but you sit on the floor to paddle like a kayak. I haven't paddled one yet but I would like to try one and see if they are as tipsy as a canoe which is what I always hated about canoes.
If you can kneel, canoes are not "tipsy". With any boat, the secret to being secure in rough water is loose hips, letting the boat rock somewhat freely beneath you (within reason, as at some point a brace might be needed). When kneeling you can let the canoe rock an extreme amount while your body remains centered, but at the same time, distributing some of your weight on the floor via your knees (about half your weight is still on the seat when kneeling) greatly reduces the need to worry about such things in the first place. I've been kneeling in canoes for almost 20 years and would never go back to plain old sitting. Even if you can't kneel for hours at a time like some people, you might be able to kneel long enough for those short passages through whitewater or during a windy crossing.
@@ericl2969 I will try that but I don't know how long I can kneel. I like the idea of the weight savings and capacity of a canoe over a kayak but my experience over the past 40 years has been kayak open water on all the coast in the US as well as many small rivers.Have you ever paddled a pack canoe like the swift? You actually sit in it on the floor like a kayak that is what I have been think about getting since I am retiring to Arkansas.
@@kevchard5214 For the coastal paddling you describe, the kayak certainly has the advantage. And it would not be unusual for someone your age (you've been paddling 40 years) to have lost the ability to kneel in a canoe for long periods, but the idea seemed worth mentioning.
As to the packboat question, I can only offer this: I have a couple of "canoe-shaped" rowboats with seats that are just a few inches off the floor (one of them is actually has the words "Pack Boat" as part of the model name), and they are stable to the point of being nearly idiot-proof. I would expect similar attributes in a true pack canoe that has the seat set so low. It would be great if you could find a way to test paddle a pack canoe (or any other boat) before buying, but many of us don't get that option.
@@ericl2969 I agree but like you said trying one is not a option for me. It looks like they are popular in Canada but no so much her in the lower 48. I will never give up kayaking I have very fond memories paddling the west , south and east coast but a 60 lbs kayak is a little heavy if you have to portage in small rivers but was great in oceans surf. My oldest kayak(early 1980s vintage) has seen water from north and south California as well as both sides of Florida and Georgia coast but moving inland changes ones perspectives.
I agree with you 100%. I'm a canoe where though . I'm 65 canoeing for 40 years. I'd like the room I like sitting and I can. I like the ice chest and all the goodies that go with it. I have kayak. Much easier to get around especially in the wind.
Yup! I think everyone needs one of each! :)
Don't forget the Klepper style folding kayaks and the Kruger canoes. A folding kayak has a similar payload to a canoe. A Kruger can handle some of the toughest seas.
And how about your Trak for a portage?
That being said, the largest selling segment in kayaks are now those huge sit on top fishing kayaks which really don't have much in the way of the benefits you mentioned. Sadly, sea kayaking is a dying breed in the US. It's rare to see anyone under 40 in a sea kayak.
I don’t argue over which is better. Each has their advantages and disadvantages, and it all depends on what you want to do. I’ve been around both and I like both. I like the pirogue too, especially in the swamp. It all depends on what I’m doing.
I am a river man. I build my rods and tie my dry flies. I build my kayaks after owning a 16 foot Canuck square ender. Over 50 years ago my buddies and I started floating the S fork ot the Flathead from the Bob Marshal to the dude ranch 12 miles down stream. The last evening, Bob and I were on a sand bar about half mile upstream. We were talking and thinking about how nice it would be to stay on the river and how little we would need to do that. We shared a two man military surplus boat but if each man had his own boat and other necessities, we could go into the Bob Marshal, 30 miles and float out. The following August we checked in to Birch Glen on Swan Lake with our families and the three of us hiked to Holland Lake, up over Pendant Pass and down to Big Salmon Lake, packed up and hiked another mile to the S Fork or the Flathead River. We each had packs just under 50 pounds, containing our Sevylor blow up boats, our beds with a tarp, and gear for a week. We also had kid sized canoe paddles that we used for a walking stick Our fly rods were attached to the side of our packs. We had a pistol, first aid kit, camera, hatchet, dry noodles, canned bacon, fry pan, boiling pot. Turned out that each of us had added snake bite medicine although only one fifth was designated. By 10 am we were on the river and "throwing cutthroats over both shoulders". Our favorite river song was Delta Dawn. What a great trip, 30 miles hiking in and floating 30 miles out. Had to pack out the last two miles when the river turned on edge. I talked to Jim the other day and remined him, that was 45 years ago. We had five more float trips together on the Blackfoot. Bob is gone but we still meet often in our dreams.
Iguana
"Spot on" Good point's!
I used a Folbot in the Boundary Waters for a multi day trip. I rigged up a canoe yolk that I could remove easily. It was great when I had a big wave day on one of the larger lakes as I had a spray skirt. But a guy going light and with an UL solo canoe caught up with me at the end of a portage and threw in his pack and was off while I was still packing my kayak. I love canoes but it depends on where you live. It is like bicycles, you got to have a few!
I love that as a kayaker you don't slam canoes but give the advantages of both 🙂 I have a few more awesomnesses to add to the canoe side. When our kids were younger we fit our family of 5 plus everything we needed for a 10-day free crownland holiday into our 17-foot canoe. I'm waterfront director at a kids' camp near Ottawa and I hate when canoes are shunned by beginners because it's easier to track a kayak straight without learning specific strokes. I guard standing in my 14-foot fixer-upper canoe using canoeing strokes with a kayak paddle (keeping a canoeing paddle in the boat, too). It's stable and maneuverable, forward, backward, can turn on a dime ... And I can easily shuttle kids between the docks and the water trampoline by sitting them down by my feet (weight all in one spot) and don't have to worry about banging the paddle into them because I'm standing above them. I leave the fully equipped canoe tied to the dock all summer and it's super easy to empty in seconds after a rain.
I hear you! I just finished a 5-day canoe trip in Killarney Provincial Park with the family. The 3 of us took an 18-foot canoe, and we had tons of space! Love canoe trips... love that park too! Algonquin is amazing, but I've been finding myself driving the extra 4 hours to go to Killarney for the past 5 years. Cheers!
If I have to chose (ie just one boat) its got to be the traditional open canoe. Its just so versatile. I can solo or take the family, paddle with a single or double paddle, from any position in the boat, kneeling, sitting or even standing. I can pole, row or sail (best way to deal with wind on open water, use it). Plus I know I can do a solo deep water recovery with a canoe, my kayak skills are no where near that good (re-enter and roll? I can't roll reliably). I'd like a sea kayak but it would have to be as well as a canoe, not instead of.
I have 1 canoe and 2 kayaks...fishing kayak...rec kayak...16 foot canoe and a new solo canoe coming...got most bases covered....one or the other does not do everything well...
I paddle my canoe in the ocean with side stabilizers with a long kayak paddle. Also with a 2 HP outboard.
Regarding speed and lower center of gravity... I would add that a small solo canoe with a pedestal seat for a kneeling position, and using a double bladed paddle will give you a very fast and stable boat. Much easier on your back too
I wonder if you have ever done the bowron lakes chain in British Columbia. It is a chain of lakes connected by a number of portages a little over 100 kilometres. I have done it twice with a kayak taking six days both times and my brother has done it many more times than that. If you know how to pack and what to pack it’s no problem to go for multi day trips in a kayak.
That sounds like a sweet trip! Never done it myself. Another one for the list...
I own both a canoe and sea kayak and like them both, but in reading through most of the comments didn't see any mention that canoeing has more paddle strokes than kayaking. Granted that makes canoeing harder to learn, but I enjoy doing the different canoe strokes over the simple kayak strokes. That said if you want to go fast pick a kayak.
That's one of the reasons I love mixing it up and hopping into both kayaks and canoes. Keeps things interesting, and develops different skills. Cheers!
For most conditions there is a large common overlap between a canoe and kayak . Each has its' advantages that shine in the extremes of this overlap. My solution has always been to use a decked Kruger canoe. Can not hold a family though. But best of both worlds for solo paddling :-)
Answered the debate for me .. thank you
Having owned both myself. I agree wholeheartedly.
What it comes down to is that kayaking is easy enough to learn to get into and do a river trip sooner. You can spend a morning solo or tandem learning the basics, pack, and go. Canoeing doesn't work like that especially solo. And tandem can be very difficult to master until you find a practiced enthusiast to partner with. However there is nothing as spectacular as taking a canoe down a set of difficult rapids with all of your gear and with the knowledge and experience to do so safely and efficiently. You are truly self-reliant and free, not to mention the feeling of watching a kayaker make the same run and think to yourself "hmmm...half the paddle, twice the man (or woman)."
For a beginner adult, which is easier and better to learn for recreational purpose, kayak or canoe?
nice video i paddled the full length of the river rhine, 1000 plus km two years ago with my dog and so many of your points where valid. at times especially paddling 10 hours a day often i was dreaming of a canoe to stretch my legs out especially since the dog would sit on them somethimes. i was glad though for the kayak as there was some rapid sections and later on big waves from the barges and i wouldnt have fancied being in a canoe then. also was a pain with the portage around dams and i left a lot of plastic on the ground too and eventually a hole in my boat. i didnt find carrying gear a problem with the kayak and i had a lot usually two weeks worth of food and dog food and way too many unnecessary things im sure one could lighten the load even more than i did.
Wow!! 1000 km mission! That sounds awesome. Congrats! I can imagine you learned a lot of lessons... many likely the hard way. :)
@@PaddleTV lots learnt the hard way my only real regret was not bringing a kayak trolley i had to do 3 trips around the rhine falls with all my gear, about 30km up steep hills it took me the whole day i would recommend everyone brings wheels if you have to portage more than a km. still best decsion i ever made, i'm planning the Danube source to sea for next year now currently.
Very well explained. Thanks for sharing.
You’re not a fool. Great info. Thank you. ✌️
Well... not a complete fool at least. :)
Living in an island there is not argue. Sea kayak of course 😉
Didn’t mention fishing. I have a fully rigged pedal drive fishing kayak, and it’s great. But half the time my comfortable little 12’ solo canoe is the perferred craft. 33 lb vs 90. Simpler, lighter, more maneuverable, you stay drier if it’s cold, can handle shallow water where the pedal drive and rudder can’t.
Good points!
Thank you for the video. I'm looking to get into the sport. I hate swimming but want to enjoy the waterways here in the Pacific northwest. I appreciate your time and content.
What about the hybrids? I have a NEXT, Old Town, but I have not got out this year because of the virus. Opinions on hybrids.
Its safe to go out solo in a canoe during this pandemic. Just do it.
downeast primitive skills thank you 😊
I was always a kayak person through and through but after seeing deliverance I decided to try canoeing 🛶 and I love it I am now a canoe person
I think it's a preference. I can take my kayaks anywhere I canoe.I can't take a canoe everywhere I kayak. Equipment wise, I have loaded upwards of 200 lbs in my Jackson Karma RG. And have done 5 day self contained trips. I prefer my kayak. But I do love paddling all kinds of crafts. And for extremely long trips. I prefer a raft.
Its clear a kayak has the attributes you mention, and worthy of consideration. It all depends on the personal use and situation. Myself I prefer the open canoe, when encountering multiple beaver dams for example the ease of in and out of the boat is greatly appreciated in a canoe. Another aspect Paddle TV should cover is Poling a canoe, with low summer waters a pole is a great tool for your canoe, to slow and pick, snubbing, your way down the river or to push your way up the river.
Good points. Also a spray cover on a canoe makes them more adept at open water and big waves although still no match for a sea kayak in big open water.
Im a kayaker, been in a canoe once and found the stability was a lot better in my old town vapor 10 then what it was in the canoe. However, a canoe has more options for things like mounting a motor or some stabilizers and even a sail. That said, i like to go in many different types of waters such as coastal, so i tend to stay with kayaks but i still can see the uses of a canoe.
I hear you... it's hard to have just one boat, isn't it?
Is it common to have kids ride in cargo spaces of a kayak? Definitely only calm waters though with little to no risk of rolling. Just curious
I don’t see it too much. More common would be to have an open tandem kayak, and the kid sits in between the two adults.
What is the max safe weight for a kayak? Thinking of back packing but using a boat for fishing.the lighter the better but I'll have an army style bag.
Every kayak has a different 'max capacity', which they manufacturer will identify in its specifications. It typically ranges from 300 to 500 lbs, although for practical purposes, I would assume 50 lbs less than the posted 'max capacity'.
@@PaddleTV awesome ty for your advice
I have been canoeing for some years now, I have also owned a kayak. I prefer the canoe because It is more easy to get in and out of. And because I paddle solo, I paddle my canoe with a kayak paddle.
It takes a few years of practice get fairly good at paddling a solo canoe with a standard single-blade paddle, but oh, it opens up a whole new world of boat control. I started out paddling solo with a double-blade paddle too, but would never go back to paddling that way now. To each his own, though.
Good overview for people like me. Many thanks (UK)
Excelente charla!
I am an advid Canoeist , I have canoed various rivers in North America and I have Canoed the south gulf Island in British Columbia were I lived on Mayne Island ,Ive always loved the canoe over the kyake for the same reasone you said , you can bring more gear and is way easyer to portage, I love bring my cast iron and camp as did the explorers did whne they first came to Canada, I have canoed the ocean you just need to make sure you do so on good weather days and dont stray to close to shore is there is a surge of waves that crash up against the rocky shore line , I follow shorelines instead of crossing large bodies of water and if I do have to cross a large bodei of water I fine the shortest rout across, even if it means a whole day or more to get to that crossing, Im getting ready to do the longest trip of my life this spring if I can find some one that would take care of my cat for me , I plan on travleing from the tip of the great lakes threw the chicago river to the Mississippi to the gulf of Mexico threw the Panama Canel up the Pacific to Vancouver Island threw active pass and across to Vancouver Island , Once Ive done this I pland to rest for a year and then continue north to Alaska cross the Barien sea to Russia and south along China untill I come arround Africa and then North up the Atlantic Ocean to Egnland , along these routs north Im going to go off cousre abit and I want to Canoe the Ganges rive aswell I wish to canoe the river Thems
Thanks for the information. I too hate paddling a canoe solo due to winds etc. What I'm wondering is how big water can you take a tripping kayak through? For example the Cline River canyon can be done with a whitewater kayak. What about a tripping one?
It really depends on your skill level and the specifics of a tripping kayak. I follow another channel (Gatewood Brown) and that dude takes fishing kayaks down whitewater regularity. That said, it isn't going to handle that situation like a whitewater boat. A tripping boat is heavier and less maneuverable. I'd approach it like I would if I were running the rapids in a canoe more than a kayak. Never trusting that I can make course corrections quickly. Scout rapids and makes sure to run them at the ideal angle, don't plan to adjust course mid rapid. Also, be willing to line or port rapids that could be risky.
I'm 62 and 5 ' 9 slender build and am going to get the Old Town solo sportsman canoe 119 hybrid for it'll act as a kayak while using the 250cm kayak paddle and can carry more gear as well If I want too for it has both of best world's in a solo boat for my purposes !!!
Both look great to me. I do not have either boat nor have I ever been in either. I understand how the kayak has a greater extreme durability; but, I also enjoy the idea of carrying larger loads. I need to state that I am a hobby photographer so I'd be packing some gear.
But, I also consider going past canoes and getting a sea worthy row boat.
I would check out a recreational sit-on-top kayak for photography... something over 30" wide so that it's super stable. You can even look at an inflatable sit-on-top kayak for ease of transport and stowing. Check out the NRS Pike review I just did. I think it would be a great photography boat for calm water.
You pretty much made my argument for me to show my wife. I need both for sure. It’s basically like asking what’s better a Corvette or a pick up. It really depends what you’re doing that day.
The pack boat makes this discussion obsolete. Checkout Swift packboats used by a number of RUclips presenters. I am a 70 year old Canadian canoeist. I use a pack boat which is a 14’ canoe hull with a kayak seat . This I can paddle with a kayak paddle. Or a canoe paddle and it’s capacity is all you need for a multi week trip , held in canoe packs. While weighing under 30 pounds. None portage trips in deep water where you don’t need to disembark due to sandbars is where an ocean kayak shines.
The Swift Packboat was actually the first boat I ever reviewed on RUclips! ruclips.net/video/iQBFDyOJ5Ks/видео.html Loved it...
Most of the time...a Canoe. I have both and there are times when the Sea Kayak has a distinctive advantage but I mostly prefer a Canoe.
Given the intro I thought you were very fair to canoes. I’m a canoe guy, and would’ve explained it the exact same way. I canoe because I can get to better hunting spots and can put the whole family in when we go fishing at the lake. An extra plus I’d give to kayaks is that the seem easier to travel with on vehicles. Canoes are tricky for trucks and easier for SUVs I had to get a 13’ canoe so I could just put it in the truck bed.
In addition in a canoe solo in the wind you sit in the back vs in the center making it more susceptible to the wind. The rudder or skeg also helps with tracking in wind. The balanced stroke of a double bladed paddle is more efficient than a j stroke with a canoe that looses efficiency paddling backwards.
You buy a solo canoe then you sit in the centre. Easy Peasy
You move to the centre, or even forward of centre to adjust for wind.
My Issue has been Heat.
Was curious if U have kayaked in Hot climates, Slow water..? And Ur thoughts..?
Wrapped Up in the Yak, it can get warm here in the Texas/OKL Summer..
Absolutely. It can be hot in a sit-inside kayak... but the flip side is that your legs are shaded from the sun. In really hot environments (like Texas and OKL in the summer) sit-on-top kayaks are very popular because you can just swing your legs over the sides of the kayak and into the water... or even just splash your legs with water, because the water will just drain out. If you do that in a canoe or sit-inside kayak, the water stays in your boat until you get to shore and empty it, or use a sponge, which is something I always bring.
Thanks for the great video. I’ve been looking into outfitting a kayak for wildlife photography. Now I’m thinking a canoe may be the better option.
I have a canoe I use it for wildlife photography and I love it there is lots of room and I can sometimes fit s tripod when my lens gets too heavy
I am a pro Photographer and canoe is the way to go if you're going to do wildlife and landscape photography can carry all the equipment you need easily and also very easy to get in and out of
Definitely canoe for that. Much more initial stability, so you can put the paddle down without going over, plus near silent paddling (Indian stroke).
Great breakdown. Those have been my takes too. I love the excitement of WW, and a kayak can handle it easier, faster learn time, I believe, but.. I am looking towards longer trekking tandem trips, and thus packing gear , the canoe is my directional focus. Learning rapids on a canoe with good rocker, but then plan to spend most of my time treking or with grandkids fishing in canoe. Thank you.
Actually, a whitewater canoe can go anywhere a kayak can. I have a large poster of a local (Washington D.C.) champion canoe paddler going over a waterfall on the Potomac River!
So, neither is better! They are just 'different' as you have described
Where would the best to buy a canoe? Big box stores?
My Mad River Slipper weighs only 42 lbs. and is easy to portage plus it loads quickly with my 50 lbs. of gear. Also very easy to car-top. Of course it is not as fast as a kayak and needs to avoid the big waves. But I can paddle it into a small chop. I will probably never own a kayak because I don't like not being able to change my position. On the canoe one can easily change from sitting to kneeling and can move legs as desired.
I understand carrying a kayak when doing a trip is hard, definitely if your yak is bigger than 11’ but I find kayak are a lot easier to anchor and fish and stand on, I have a 128x by ascend and it’s wide enough to stand in without tipping, canoe’s are a lot more fun if I want to do trips with others make it much easier to carry two peoples things and balance the weight better, another good thing about canoes is I can carry a lot of my gear more that I truly need but it’s nice to bring more than you need rather than not enough. Now when it does come to tipping it much easier to push over a yak and drain the water then it is a canoe and get all your gear back!! Hopefully this helps anyone trying to decide on what to get!
All good points!
Enrolled in a sea kayak intro course and I will then progress gradually in kayaking. Does kayaking knowledge help to paddle and handle a canoe or does one also need to learn some canoeing basics?
Kayaking skills definitely help for handling a canoe. Even though the strokes are a little different, the paddle dexterity you develop from learning one craft helps with the other. You'll also develop an awareness for how your boat will react to different conditions/situations, which transfers over nicely. Of course, if you plan on doing some serious canoeing, like a multi-day river trip with current or whitewater, a canoeing course will still be invaluable.
All good points and lately I'm liking my outrigger the most, but the SUP is easiest for the short after work paddle.
Hi can a 17 feet aluminum canoe square stern with motor go in the ocean
I grew up canoeing on streams, lakes and bays in summertime South Jersey, so a canoe feels more "normal" to me, but I love my inflatable open kayak. Inflated I can load it on the car roof and port if myself to any of the lakes near Seattle and be in the water quickly.
Whats better Pickup Truck or Sedan?... Depends on your needs/wants, it is really like comparing Apples to Oranges. With that said, I'll share my experiences with Canoes/Kayaks.
Just a quick disclaimer, this has been "my" experience with my canoe and kayaks, canoe's are not all the same, just like kayaks are not all the same.
First off, the ease of me tossing the Kayak in the car and headed out for a quick paddle is a lot more doable then with the canoe.
My back would kill me after a 5 hour day in the canoe, even with the sit-backers, in the Kayak, no problem.
Ever year we do a multi-day winter River trip down the Delaware River, "Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area". and what I can tell you is, I'll never take a canoe down the river again.
My latest trip down the river was in a kayak and it was the most pleasant trip I have had so far.
Wind nearly killed me in the Canoe, we were in a head wind that literally would turn us sideways and blow us upstream. This year in the Kayak, we had a pretty rough headwind, the worst yet...no problem in the Kayak.
As far as portaging, I look at it like this, 2 guys in a canoe with gear vs. 2 guys in 2 kayaks with gear. The canoe would be more of a chore to portage, two guys can easily carry 2 kayaks fully loaded.
This is why I believe that to be true, well for me anyway...when you multi-day with a canoe, you unintentionally or intentionally bring too much crap, the Kayak sort of forces you to make better choices, anyhow that's my take on it.
100% depends on what your doing, that's for sure!
Listened to your whole video. Very informative excellent presentation. Didn't want to have preconceived notions as i am a canoe guy(former 120 mile Marathon racer). When i started i had a 90 lb. Sawyer canoe built for abuse(2-person). My first years of practice were on the Devil River, Ossineke, Michigan(near Alpena, Mi.). Only a top guy in a short single kayak could even think about the extreme gradient, short hair pin turns, super fast water, fallen trees piled up on corners, narrow, some pure 2 foot deep white foam water, and not hurt himself or equipment. Later as i built 22--3/27--cedar strippers (racers-2 person C-2's) 18'-6" lg. we learned skills, and kept from damaging them. Knew Ralph Sawyer, Verlin Kruger(man paddled a 29,000 mile trip down the west coast to the tip of South America).
Canoeist here; love taking the cooler on river trips for all the freshies! 😋
I have a question. I have a 16 ft. Mohawk canoe. I would like to try and paddle it solo. I had it for along time but it never really got used alot. It's in really good shape kept inside all the time. I see people paddling from the front seat facing toward the rear. I can't do that with this one because one of the support cross pieces only sits 4 inches from the seat. How can I paddle safely from the rear seat solo? Or should I try to find a third seat and put it in front of the cross menber?member? I'd be just behind center.
Paddling solo from the rear seat will never work well because the canoe's trim will be totally out of whack. The closer to the centre you get the, better. Putting in a third seat could definitely work. Another option would be to sell that canoe, and buy another 2nd hand canoe. It might not cost you anything extra, and you'd have a canoe designed to paddle solo.
@@PaddleTV thank you for the advise. I appreciate it. I thought about buying a 12 or 13 foot for Solo. I have a Old Town 10 foot trip deluxe Fishing Kayak now also. But I want to Canoe you be able to carry more weight to overnight with. I weigh 285 so I'm not a little guy. My Kayak is rated for 325#. So I'm good for day tripping.
I paddle my 18-foot Grumman "backwards" sitting on the "bow" seat all the time. The thwart doesn't bother me at all. Usually solo with no cargo.