Masonry, Architecture, and Building Armor in AoE2
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- Ever notice that units never seem to do the damage vs buildings that you're expecting? That's because it's a LOT more complicated than the descriptions let on. Let's check it out!
1:20 Melee armor for various buildings
1:58 Changes to melee armor and HP when advancing
3:28 Pierce armor for various buildings
5:05 Why isn't the "minimum" damage added to bonus damage?
5:30 Siege bonus damage and anti-siege building armor
6:40 Using the Advanced Genie Editor to reveal armor types
9:40 Masonry & Architecture
12:12 Byzantine +40% HP vs Masonry & Architecture
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Full intro song: • Spirit of the Law Chan...
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires 2 HD with Forgotten Empires, African Kingdoms, and Rise the Rajas expansions 
Игры
The transition to inspecting the game files was perfection
The real annoyance about rams is that their sound effect AND attack animation do not sync with their damage output.
ikr
@@Bigbot-qb2fl maybe that will be addressed in DE..... maybe not.
Similarly camels: Imagine if camels had the fire rate of their attack animation. XD
Also the spearline units. In the Incas overview, you can see that the halberdiers animation looks like they're attacking a lot more frequently than their actual attack speed.
@@ekim613 hopefully
My mind set is...
*Buildings important*
*Armour good*
*Technology increase armour on building?*
*Technology good because building good*
It doesn't get more overcomplicated than this.
as a coder im actually amazed how elegant and simple they kept it actually xD
@Aliyan S I think he was talking about the game
@Aliyan S He who?
@Aliyan S to all non anti-swj's it was pretty intuitive that @MacBlackCat was talking about the game developers
Leitis: allow me to introduce myself
Well, that was shockingly complex
I had no idea you were into Spirit of the Law or Age of Empires, MDB! You gotta do an AoE2 vid or challenge sometime. Even just the memey Supremely Unexpected achievement.
SotL: Hey guys, Spirit of the Law here
Me: Spirit of the LA HIRE
oh wow lol
La Hire need to counts something!
Video: _Is 30 seconds old_
Comments: *_LOVE IT!!!_*
Help me I died yesterday
@@benjaminjones8782 F
Come on ! you gotta love the intro !
@@Suzumiyaa100 But the intro went missing:(....
@@Morgan_Black Oh yeah, my bad bro, just love the guy ...
Yes... Finally an explanation about building armor... I've been waiting for this...
Nice to see you going into the game files to get more technical information and 100% confirmation on these more complex things, even if it may be excessive seeing how the developers laid things out is interesting. You already seem to be the most in depth explainer of all things AOE2 and you are only getting better versed in the inner workings as time goes on.
me: alright, time to research arson!
infantry: what's arson?
me: basically means setting buildings on fire
infantry: but we already set buildings on fire by hitting them with our swords.
me: yeah, but now you'll be able to do more damage to the buildings per hit!
infantry: so why is it called arson if it has nothing to do with buildings catching fire?
me: because there's only so many scary words relating to buildings that we can use for research names, okay?
Lulz. Or maybe it's something along the lines of:
"Learn arson!"
Why?
"To put the buildings on fire"
But we already do it!
"Yes but more!"
Something like deconstruction or Stress points would be a better name. Much easier to tear a building down through pulling out its prime support vs setting stone building ablaze.
@@jcpkill1175 sword sparks can't melt stone blocks!
@@tortron Neither can a torch. Unless your telling me thats a 1200*C flame ya got there. Tearing it down by pulling a couple pillars out does the same job.
@@jcpkill1175 It was a 9/11 steel beam joke. XD
Teacher: The test it's not that confusing
The test: *this video*
Lately, I don't get my opening song.
Where is my intro!!!
seriously how the hell are we supposed to know who you are with no intro
@Meeralia You're on Malachor V, possessed by an irresistible desire to devour all Light in the universe, and-- oh wait wrong franchise
I already forgot how to play with Goths.
My daily schedule stops when spirit uploads a video
ME: ILL BE 15 MINS LATE
WORK: YOURE FIRED
ALSO ME: 5
I honest believe that once AoE II DE is released, Spirit of The Law will spend 2 to 3 years making videos about every single aspect of the game's mechanic.
I'm expecting several videos on changelist for various topics, as well as several videos on new civs and new unique topics for some civs
@@tomh4754 Congrats, you were right on the internet. I hope you're proud of yourself. How many internet points did you get?
@@tomh4754 I'm trying to show you that you are acting like a condescending, stuck up jerk. But if you have to ask, I guess I overestimated your intellect, sorry for that.
I will try to keep it simple for you:
Original commenter was excited about more videos by SotL AND a new game. Why not let him enjoy it?
Oooor, you could start a normal discussion. "You really think there's enough new material to make 3 years of videos?". Looks like someone lacks in social development.
@@kiddhkane wow you're pretty butthurt
@@kiddhkane Quit it. Your feelings about his comment aren't shared by many others here, as evidenced by the votes you can see below them. And if the only person who feels he's being "a condescending, stuck up jerk" is you (with at most a few others), you might want to reconsider why that may be. Those 'internet points' are a measure of social approval / disapproval, which makes it ironic for you to be criticizing him for not behaving in a sufficiently socially acceptable manner while simultaneously dismissing them.
What about cannon galleons, demolition ships and turtle ships? Do they have any bonus damage vs buildings?
Cannon Galleons do +200 bonus damage vs Buildings (+275 for Elite)
The Demo ship line is in order: Demo Raft (+180), Demo Ship (+220) and Heavy Demo Ship (+280)
While the Turtle Ships do no bonus damage at all. (And they are one of a few units don't have any bonus damage, the others are the Militia, the Knight line and the Boyars)
That's what I know from testing and from the AoE wiki. :))
@@JewelManDLN069 But the question is, what class?
@@Zappygunshot Class 11, Buildings.
Anti-building units in AoE II: Scorpions, mangonels, Tarkans and.... villagers XD
They construct those buildings.
Of course, they would know how to deconstruct them XD
@@satyakisil9711 It's true, it's always easier to break something than to make it :P
I mean have you see Spanish villagers?
That's a big part of why tower rushes can work.
Arshia Aghaei was it mbl destroying castles with spanish villagers in kotd 1 ?? Cant remember
Holy shit that was complicated. Might have to rewatch this one in a week.
I so miss your intro.
Gotta watch it before every new video.
Wow. Architecture and Masonry are way worse than I thought... and Obsidian Arrows is way better! Excellent video, I learned a lot.
Obsidian Arrows is almost definitely getting nerfed in DE.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn hope not.
After your "Spirit of the La Hire" pun, I keep hearing it every time you start a new video xD
The advance Genie editor was really cool to look at! :D
A legitimately interesting video behind these mechanics. I've been playing so long and never knew how those techs and armour actually worked. Cheers!
Love the deep dive into the data and how this works out in the end!
I swear, I cannot your videos enough. I'm so glad we have someone like you doing videos for such an amazing game~
I thought SOTL had covered all the juicy parts about AOE numbers already, but this one absolutely blew my mind...
You are litereally our only source to understand the game and thanks for that.
Teal Teutonic Knights are majestic.
Thanks for the great video! Very informative.
I always though obsidian arrows didn't make any sense (wanna do more damage to buildings ? shoot glass at them !). It should be 1 bonus damage against infantry or something like that.
Glass?
@@adwans1491 Obsidian is a special stone that is more akin to glass than metal; it can cut flesh extremely well, but is so brittle that you would probably break it if you hit metal... or wood... or stone.
Obisdian was used as weapons by many cultures across the world, but generally as spears and blades, not clubs and hammers.
@@adwans1491 Obsidian is a product of cooled lava flow and is considered a type of glass (it breaks like grass, is non-crystalline, is somewhat transparent in small enough sheets, etc). It turns out Obsidian is actually extremely good at making tools; a well-sharpened blade of Obsidian thousands of years ago can be far thinner than most *modern* consumer knifes. Obsidian is unfortunately not as strong as steel (being glass and all) but is a surprisingly strong form of glass and can at least penetrate skin and armor without usually breaking. It is thus somewhat reasonable that Obsidian would be used, though in truth the chronology would probably be Midieval People switching **from** Obsidian to Steel once techniques and infrastructure were sufficient to make the Steel thin enough and strong enough.
@@adwans1491 Obsidian is a naturally occurring volcanic *glass* formed as an extrusive igneous rock.
I love these videos! Even if I didn't play AoE2 i'd still watch them. The math in them and your way of breaking it up, i love it!
"But now you know what's going on behind the scens"
No, I don't, I didn't understand much, and I'm sure I won't actually remember anything when it matters the most xD
Thank you for the video, man. Not only I watch it, but so does my father (he's a fan since the first game, back when it was new). He probably has more hours in this than I do in most games combined :P
Now we're both waiting for AoE2 DE, I hope it will be worth the wait :D
Early for a SOTL video? My, my.... good things must be happening. 😍😍😍
First time I've ever been early for a video and I am glad it is yours
Same
So...
The building armors types are:
-Stone vs swords and spears
-Stone vs arrows
-stone vs 6 wheeled wooden carts
-stones vs multiples rocks thrown
-stones vs big rock launched from too far for ours arches range
-stones vs pyromaniac cavalry.
-stones vs ivory armed cavalry.
-stones vs big arrows launched from wheeled bows that walk by their own.
-stones vs big arrows launched from somewhere on the deck of ships. (Really, where these arpoons come from???)
-stones vs canons dragged by one really strong person.
-stones vs poison darts.
-stones vs balloons thrown from ships.
-stones vs flamethrower attached on ships.
-stone vs smooth monk talk.
-stone vs rocket launched from Shelby Cobras.
-stone vs the low class enraged by economics conditions of their empire.
-stone vs "torpedo#" ???
Did I miss any armor type?
Jokes aside, This shows the game was coded realistically. 20 years ago.
Wow, 14 minutes! Can't wait to watch this on the bus home
I'm gonna roll petards way more often, or at least a control group of them, when attacking from now on. Thanks for the vid
Spirit uploaded, wow nice
Very nice video. Interesting to see the game files and how that relates to the game itself. My only small criticism is that I found the numbers at 6.11 a little confusing. Before and after that, when you have numbers next to buildings it's the building's armour, but for that part it's the damage scorpions do, which is kind of inverted compared to the other examples.
13:40 teal capes look so great on Teutonic knights.
I now understand why this video has taken so long! I've wondered so long and know I see it's just a mess of armor classes!
It's amazing how you can show us something new 20 years after game release.
been waiting for a new vid for a while!
Easily one of your best videos.
I have been waiting for explanation of these mechanics for like 20 years. Not even joking.
Video showed elephants, but no elephant fact. Unsubbed.
Fact, elephants feel sadness when their fellow animals die. Didn't say it would be a fun fact, now did I?
Fact, in elephants´ brains the same area lights up as what light up in humans when we see puppies; elephants think we are cute.
Yeah men what a disappointment, dislike unsubbed and hater for life
@@pietervanrossum7820 awwww
@@pietervanrossum7820 Wasn't that debunked?
Crap, I missed this video during to T90's 24 hour stream. Anyway, SOTL you should've made a cameo appearance in the stream man. It was amazing.
for this one, good old zero empires actually did a really good explanation in his chukonu video
Excellent Choice!
i dont know half of what spirit of the law is saying usually but i feel super smart when i watch his videos, i love it
If you watch some of the footage for DE (or are in the beta) you can see the building armor values in game when hovering over them in the build menus. Only shows melee and pierce armor though.
Dude, miss the intro
Nice video!
On obsidian arrows: I'm fairly sure that it's a bug.
In the original FE mod when it was released, I think this was introduced to offset the building armor of walls. However, because they used class 21 damage, it wasn't affected by that anyway.
HOWEVER, originally the archer-line had pierce damage and 0 building damage, but no entry for stone defense. The +6 vs stone defense didn't register because of that, so in testing they would the same amount of damage to walls as to regular buildings (as probably intended).
At some point later, it was pointed out that the stone defense part of obsidian arrows didn't work, the devs fixed that, with the result being +12 damage vs stone walls - but that probably was never the original intention, and when fixing it, the devs didn't think about original intentions.
"Indulge this spreadsheet loving nerd" I'm kinda surprised you didn't give us a spreadsheet of units, buildings and damage types. Good video regardless.
I’m just excited for when you start making definitive edition vids :)
I'm a simple man: I see a Spirit of the Law video about Building Armor/HP, I click ''Like''
All Building armours are equal,
but some building armours are more equal than others....
Another fun fact that I missed: if you do the 'Hoardings' upgrade before 'masonry' and 'architecture', you get extra HP on your castle :).
O, really?
Imagine a scenario where all units get class 11 armor. Siege rams would be so op.
Loved 6:40, thank you! :D
Researching Architecture and Hoardings has a huge psychological effect too. If I click a castle and see it has 7028 hp, I will definitely think twice before trying to attack it, not so much if it has only 5280 hp.
6:43 You had me chuckling for a long time.
I don't need to think twice about it... SOTL uploads new video = I click + I like...
Would be interesting to include wonders in the mix
Still another great video though!
I always love destroying buildings with gunpowder units.
There's something cathartic about cannonballs destroying a medieval kingdom.
I'm now stuck with his intro as Spirit of the La Hire since the Joan of Arc campaign videos. :P
Great video once again! So when is the Herbal Medicine video coming out?
So you're telling me If someone is walled use archers with obsidian arrow
2:33 Wait... lumber camp and mining camp doesn't change appearance.🤔
Wow! Really! Wow! Nice job! Thanks :)!
You say Byzantines come out about the same, but I wonder though more hp vs more armor, wouldn't that mean you would have to repair with more villagers and use more stone when under attack by similar amount of enemy fire?
So that's why the Saracens team bonus is considered garbage.
It's considered garbage only by inexperienced players. It's actually a decent team bonus that can make a big difference when breaking through early walls.
@@freefallintoflames they're buffing it in DE. Clearly was a bit weak if not garbage.
@@AhaanM Where did you get that idea?
Question about the attack/defence classes!
If a unit has multiple attack classes that coincide with its target's defence classes, and the target's armor in these classes is much higher than the unit's damage, does the game round each class's 0 damage to 1 and sum them up, or does the game sum up all the 0's and then round it up to 1?
Hey Spirit, since there's been some extra stuff revealed about Definitive Edition, I was wondering if you'd do a video on it.
Specifically, I was hoping you'd do one on the new Supplies tech, which replaces Tracking, costs 150f + 100g, and reduces the Food cost of the Militia line by 15. Tracking instead is now an immediate Feudal Age bonus (much like the Scout Cavalry getting +2 LOS upon reaching Feudal), and the Slavs get Supplies for free. The only civ that doesn't get Supplies is the Goths, for obvious reasons, and the addition of Supplies caused the Malay Forced Levy tech to be changed (it now converts the gold cost into food rather than just removing the gold cost, so the Militia line would cost 80f instead of 60f 20g, but you can still reduce it down to 65f for Malay via Supplies).
What are your thoughts on all these new additions?
devs should really check the obsidian vs walls thing
The "base armor" is used for attack types that have no corresponding armor type, which has default value = 1000.
Hey spirit, in the video where you show the units attacking the buildings you say a lot "you can see that this building has x armor" but I cannot, since you didn't show the damage being dealt in real time
Watching this video gave me +3 to my class 42 armor.
Just a random idea for a future video, but maybe you can do one talking about what a player's favorite civ says about them.
Thank you Spirit. I will go use this information to lose to someone who doesn't know it right away.
So armor classes actually are visible in-game: A Voobly/Userpatch install has additional information in the tech tree, including every unit's attack bonuses and armor classes; a Steam Workshop mod exists to provide the same information for HD players. So you can see (and possibly comprehend better, or possibly not) most of this in-game, including that Masonry/Architecture does not block infantry bonus damage and that it does block half of Manipur Cavalry's.
It's still somewhat confusing.
@6:50 holy nostalgic reference, batman!
We need an in depth video about the eagle warrior line!
Yes, I wanna know it too. Why they're so expensive (50 gold) and why most infantry have an attack bonus against them.
I agree. They seem really weak, but are still very effective.
6:41 Great transition lol
from mid video to the end I non stopped thinked : what about petards ? because you said 2 times that "only petards and tarkans..." but in the end I still wanted to know :)
Masonry/architecture is something I always never research. I forget it exists half the time like arrow slits and sappers
Spirit of the law can you make a video about trigger, conditions, effect?
So I have a question about wall armor, if you're getting attacked and they're using heavy rams, would it be better to leave your walls unupgraded or upgrade and lose that extra bit of armor for the hp?
I'm to wasted to followw any of this
I'll watch it again tomorrow.
Maybe again, the next day.
Spirit of The Law, can you make a video about resources last longer civs? and how it works?
Hey, out of curiosity what is the track that you use in the background for going into the game files? I hear it a lot in your videos but I can't find it anywhere else, not even on Epidemic Sound's website.
I'm guessing this one: www.epidemicsound.com/search/?term=simple%20pleasantries%201
Most mind boggling video ever..
Love it !!!!
Sooooo, you’re saying use elephants against Byzantine castles but not castles with masonry or architecture?
That's weird, the Avatar of the channel is completely different in the recommended page. I even took a screenshot of it.
Honestly the difference can be fairly huge, with or without these techs, with certain units, there is a mile of a difference in razing a town with cavalry in imperial of someone with and without building armor techs. Without them it feels like your army is literally cutting through butter at times and with them it's pretty much a slog without siege equipment. Sure for a lot of units you are technically reducing the attack by just 2 damage, but that can be fairly significant percentage of anywhere between 20% - 67% damage reduction per attack. I'm honestly surprised at the amount of people who outright ignore these techs when under pressure when it can buy you quite a nice chunk of time.
Thumbs up just for the Batman transition. all other info was just a bonus. PLZ KEEP BATMAN TRANSITION!!
@spirit of the law, what about Byzantines with hoardings?
So basically if i fill a capp3d ram with bowmen who have obsidian arrow tech, then...
Your videos are a great resource for modders! Thanks for breaking down how these damage systems work
Note that in recent patches since the original vid, house armor is now -2 in dark age. And feudal stone wall HP is increased.
I think Byzantine's building HP bonus really shines with walls
Your start really sounded like 'Spirit of the La Hire' again