I was a 0% when I started my first gamejam, but by the end of it I was 100% that with enough time and coffee, I could figure out anything... Keep at it! Great video, I needed this info. 👍
I'm a programmer with 26 years under my belt professionally, not specifically game development. I can assure you that as the years go by, you will understand more and more and realize just how much more there is to know. It's continuously empowering. You are on an amazing journey, my friend.
The main issue is time usage. Look, i'am making a game for about a year now, i figure out a lot. But some stuff consume a lot of time, like, make sounds, i found some nice ways to make melody, and it work, i found other way to make some effects, but not work for everthing. Art is another problem, i can code anything, or at least i can dive really deep into most type of codes i found on my 10 years working as programmer. Soo, connections TCP UDP, handler of servers, handle 3D collisions, you can pick libs, use default from engines or made your own, import stuff, shaders are actually a think that i never used so far, but i'am aiming to start using item in next project, but my ongoing project is a 2D game pixel art that not exactly have the need to use it that much. Anyway, even if i could implement a shader, not sure if i will understand exactly how to make it beuatifull or something more artist LOL
"You're going to be off" that's a super important thing to understand and something that people might try to use as an excuse to not plan, but actually, it forces you to refocus and rework your plan again and again and it's when you are off of your plan that you realize that maybe you should reduce your scope again, maybe that feature is not that important, maybe it's time to polish and stop adding stuff, even the stuff that you planned, cause the plan will change. But you can't make those changes to the plan if you never make a plan in the first place.
One of the things that helps me is: You are going to overscope every time, new dev or veteran. So lay out your entire idea, then prioritize all the features from most necessary to least necessary. This way you can work from the bottom up, and you can cut later down the road if needed, because you already built the necessary systems.
8:00 Project Mgmt protip: search for *"Early Start, Late Finish"* or the _Critical Path method_ . Basically you estimate how much time each step is likely to take, identify which steps are dependent on others, and then estimate the earliest possible time you could finish, or the latest you can start (or max delay you can afford). It's designed for major construction or software projects, but applies very well to games, too. You can try the same approach with more/less optimistic estimates, and it'll at least give you a decent time range, rather than arbitrarily guessing.
well we are 4.5y in and at this point 10/10. Knowing what we know now, we should have given us a 1/10 at the start. Just stumbled on your channel today. Good stuff. :)
Getting screenshots for the steam page doesn't even need a working version of the game. Just get some models, place them onto a scene and arrange the models to make it look like what the game is expected to look like. These initial screenshots don't need to stay on your steam page forever, they're just so Valve can approve the visibility of the steam page and then the screenshots can be changed once you have real screenshots available.
Great video! I've been a dev for about 13 years now so I 'think' I have the ability to estimate my timelines accurately. I'm working on my fist game now (2 months in) and I plan on having it ready by the end of the year. Guess I'm gonna find out if my timeline estimations are transferable :D
I think the biggest thing is not to fall into the, 'You need a coach' trap. Work at your own pace, set reasonable development goals each week and try to make them. Secondly, focusing more on the actual development of the game vs becoming a 'youtube' bro is also quite helpful. You should keep in mind who you get information from, this individual has two games on steam both poorly received.
First game for me. So ...I have no deadline, no expectations or relative estimation of specified task accomplishment time. So for me it will be what will be. It's like guessing how long to finish a puzzle when you've never made a puzzle before. So we'll see..
Try a game jam! For me having a deadline to work towards gave me the motivation to actually finish something. Yeah it wasn’t great (and I thought it was twice as long), but it helped me stop over analyzing everything about my game. I realized how much of a perfectionist I can be. It was a great learning experience to swallow my pride because everything will be ok in the end, and we’re all learning and doing our best. Good luck on your first game!
@@Gambit-YT Thanks Gambit. I have been thinking about it. I'm so new at this, I need to learn more about the communication between different software. And the unreal (beast) way of working..I'm just starting to get a grip on it. 😊 It wouldn't be about pride( I don't think I have any left ) but about not wanting to let anyone down. When I get a little better, I will. Thanks Gambit
No worries, I was just giving my personal experience as to why I waited so long to release something. Everyone's different, a game jam was a great solution for my issues!@@bruceburnett5372
I have one for one page game design docs: ruclips.net/video/xUo0rL2c_LQ/видео.html (in the description) Making some better templates for larger projects is on my to-do list, I just haven't been able to get around to it yet... -M
Where was this video when I crunched from day 1 and burned out HARD? At least one of the most challenging aspects of the game is behind me: the ability system (I needed a custom one which could handle creating new abilities on the fly... Before I reduced the scope, now I don't need the system as much). Now to do AI!
If you are doing your Scrum sprints, don't forget the story point estimations, otherwise you won't be able to adjust your sprint velocity correctly and estimating your progress and remaining time gets increasingly harder.
I'd guess you are a software engineer with a few years of experience under their belt already. One thing here is the part from the agile manifesto "Interactions over processes and tools". Sprintplanning is definitely something you can do, but for a small indie team such as ours, it is too deep in the agile sauce, and doesn't have as good of an ROI for us anymore. Working with sprints and milestones is the bare minimum, but remember that gamedev isn't just software engineers, but also marketing, art, sound design,... where story points can be a lot harder to plan, and having a dedicated PM/Scrum Master isn't always an option. So try it out, but it's not as hard of a science in gamedev vs. traditional software engineering I'd say -M
@bitemegames I agree. I wasn't trying to suggest bloated concepts with more effort than effective use and results. Just specifically stories point based estimates or just estimation based on artificial numbers representing the time consumption. They don't require much effort, increase in precision over time with experience and can offer an easy and visual way of accessing information about your progress and sprint velocity. Dump that other scrum stuff xD
Fuck no. Kanban board, Trello suffice. Make tasks, do them. You will lose more time thinking about story board, estimation, planning, reviewing data than you gain out of it.
@anonimowelwiatko9811 let me repeat and summarize what you skipped in your thought process after reading all of this. I suggested a minimal version of story boards to achieve reliable velocity adjustments. If you do not want to adjust your speed or maybe you don't want to guess the amount of work you can do in a single sprint, then simply don't use it. You can easily work with sprints that don't have a fixed deadline. Also, by skipping time estimation, you will keep your stress low.
Yeah, confidence is my biggest issue, no matter how much I cut my scope it is always at zero. I have technically cut a scope to the point I had somewhat the confidence to complete it, but the end result just left me disappointed.
Start small. It can be pacman clone, tetris, pong, mario lvl 1. Then add up to it. Think about creating systems that are reusable so when you finish one feature, you can make a lot of content inside the game out of it.
Features that I´ll never will put in my games: everything related to game as a service. Pay to win, Free to pay but you have just a few stages to buy almost everything to have the complete game, locked content dlc (not "actual dlc", just locked content from the game that you arlredy own, but you have to pay more to unlock), season pass, paid skins, gacha/lootboxes (aren´t those banned in some countries? thanks EA, you´re the greediest of all), expensive overpowered dlc characters (compared to the characters of the Vanilla version), NFTs, Cryptogames, dlc hell (hundreds of dlcs), exclusive expensive dlc characters, seasonal dlcs (buy it now or you never have it, MOFO)... I really HATE it all as a player.
I don’t believe in sacrifices in choices by development ease improvements. It’s what destroys the main fun part in the game. Nowadays when the market is so rough, this doesn’t work. You either make a masterpiece and do a lot of money, or suffer from financial problems because your mid decisions don’t give you any normal income. It’s a truth of the current Gamedev. You should be dedicated to game dev and should not search for easy ways.
L take. You either take A LOT of time to create something really good (including prototyping, playtesting with people, taking feedback and reiterating) or you make smaller games working up your skills and gaining experience, project by project. You should either be making ideally mobile games for money or work with someone in industry (can be small indie studio). If you setup yourself for solo development, thinking that you can score big without any experience, you are up for a huge disappointment.
@@anonimowelwiatko9811 from my experience the second is not valid. Masterpieces are valuable now, and I don’t see any problem change 1000000 times the same game just to make it fun.
@@anonimowelwiatko9811 although of course you improve your skills, but it’s something what I don’t see valid in this case. You just can improve your main game-masterpiece
I'm sorry but you guys failed miserably with your game. You have no success in the industry. And I don't think you are someone who can give advice based on your skill level.
They never even claimed to, they only show how they did it and are very open about their mistakes and fails and give input in what one can try, giving tips and tricks and sharing their thoughts, which is very much appreciated by a lot of people who are also trying to make a game, but thank you so much for your 'constructive' feedback.
They finished and released a game, which is more than 90 percent of indie game devs can claim. Having guys like this explain the reality versus a Cinderella story is way more useful for everyone. Especially since the wildly successful devs aren't giving away their secrets.
Seeing comments like this make me so much more thankful for BiteMe Games, who take their time to support other game devs with honest and constructive advice and reflection. The gamedev community should be more supportive and share actual insights of their gamedev journey - especially when it is not a commercial success. Because it takes a lot of failures before you reach success (but people tend to forget about that and just sell success stories) - and now we get the reflections and learnings for free
@@channyh.221B These guys are the REAL deal. They openly share their fails and their successes. So many "Making a game with zero experience" vids. BM focuses entirely on the aspects of Game Dev that are not related to the engine, and the work around it to build success. Edit: Most of their content is being released under the banner of "This how we're doing this. It may work for you." They present the information and it's up to the viewer to walk away and utilize it or not. Basically YMMV.
![I Completed 100% of Stacklands! [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MXw5jf9CvsA/mqdefault.jpg)
I was a 0% when I started my first gamejam, but by the end of it I was 100% that with enough time and coffee, I could figure out anything...
Keep at it!
Great video, I needed this info. 👍
I'm a programmer with 26 years under my belt professionally, not specifically game development.
I can assure you that as the years go by, you will understand more and more and realize just how much more there is to know.
It's continuously empowering.
You are on an amazing journey, my friend.
The main issue is time usage. Look, i'am making a game for about a year now, i figure out a lot. But some stuff consume a lot of time, like, make sounds, i found some nice ways to make melody, and it work, i found other way to make some effects, but not work for everthing. Art is another problem, i can code anything, or at least i can dive really deep into most type of codes i found on my 10 years working as programmer. Soo, connections TCP UDP, handler of servers, handle 3D collisions, you can pick libs, use default from engines or made your own, import stuff, shaders are actually a think that i never used so far, but i'am aiming to start using item in next project, but my ongoing project is a 2D game pixel art that not exactly have the need to use it that much. Anyway, even if i could implement a shader, not sure if i will understand exactly how to make it beuatifull or something more artist LOL
"You're going to be off"
that's a super important thing to understand and something that people might try to use as an excuse to not plan, but actually, it forces you to refocus and rework your plan again and again and it's when you are off of your plan that you realize that maybe you should reduce your scope again, maybe that feature is not that important, maybe it's time to polish and stop adding stuff, even the stuff that you planned, cause the plan will change. But you can't make those changes to the plan if you never make a plan in the first place.
One of the things that helps me is: You are going to overscope every time, new dev or veteran. So lay out your entire idea, then prioritize all the features from most necessary to least necessary. This way you can work from the bottom up, and you can cut later down the road if needed, because you already built the necessary systems.
Solid video - perfect timing for where im at as a newby dev! Definitely will be rewatching it and taking notes! Thanks!
8:00 Project Mgmt protip: search for *"Early Start, Late Finish"* or the _Critical Path method_ . Basically you estimate how much time each step is likely to take, identify which steps are dependent on others, and then estimate the earliest possible time you could finish, or the latest you can start (or max delay you can afford).
It's designed for major construction or software projects, but applies very well to games, too. You can try the same approach with more/less optimistic estimates, and it'll at least give you a decent time range, rather than arbitrarily guessing.
This is great information for new devs. Learn to plan and understand the scope you can handle.
I think this is the most useful video you guys have ever posted. ❤
well we are 4.5y in and at this point 10/10. Knowing what we know now, we should have given us a 1/10 at the start.
Just stumbled on your channel today. Good stuff. :)
Getting screenshots for the steam page doesn't even need a working version of the game. Just get some models, place them onto a scene and arrange the models to make it look like what the game is expected to look like. These initial screenshots don't need to stay on your steam page forever, they're just so Valve can approve the visibility of the steam page and then the screenshots can be changed once you have real screenshots available.
Solid as always, thankyou!
Open world Massive Online Multiplayer RPG and.... GO! There is no scope creep if you jump to maximum scope! 😁
But what's your confidence ;) -M
Great video! I've been a dev for about 13 years now so I 'think' I have the ability to estimate my timelines accurately. I'm working on my fist game now (2 months in) and I plan on having it ready by the end of the year. Guess I'm gonna find out if my timeline estimations are transferable :D
I think the biggest thing is not to fall into the, 'You need a coach' trap. Work at your own pace, set reasonable development goals each week and try to make them. Secondly, focusing more on the actual development of the game vs becoming a 'youtube' bro is also quite helpful. You should keep in mind who you get information from, this individual has two games on steam both poorly received.
First game for me. So ...I have no deadline, no expectations or relative estimation of specified task accomplishment time. So for me it will be what will be. It's like guessing how long to finish a puzzle when you've never made a puzzle before. So we'll see..
Well Saïd - Same here
I think if you don't put pressure on yourself to finish and just relax and enjoy the process of building, definitely this is a good way to go.
Try a game jam! For me having a deadline to work towards gave me the motivation to actually finish something. Yeah it wasn’t great (and I thought it was twice as long), but it helped me stop over analyzing everything about my game. I realized how much of a perfectionist I can be. It was a great learning experience to swallow my pride because everything will be ok in the end, and we’re all learning and doing our best. Good luck on your first game!
@@Gambit-YT Thanks Gambit. I have been thinking about it. I'm so new at this, I need to learn more about the communication between different software. And the unreal (beast) way of working..I'm just starting to get a grip on it. 😊
It wouldn't be about pride( I don't think I have any left ) but about not wanting to let anyone down. When I get a little better, I will. Thanks Gambit
No worries, I was just giving my personal experience as to why I waited so long to release something. Everyone's different, a game jam was a great solution for my issues!@@bruceburnett5372
Any template you use for long term planning / game design doc?
I have one for one page game design docs: ruclips.net/video/xUo0rL2c_LQ/видео.html (in the description)
Making some better templates for larger projects is on my to-do list, I just haven't been able to get around to it yet... -M
Nice
Where was this video when I crunched from day 1 and burned out HARD?
At least one of the most challenging aspects of the game is behind me: the ability system (I needed a custom one which could handle creating new abilities on the fly... Before I reduced the scope, now I don't need the system as much). Now to do AI!
What is the name of the game at 00:21 ?
It's just a Unity prototype, not a full game, so it doesn't have a name -M
@@bitemegames Oh, ok. Thank you for the answer. :)
I really like this ♫♪♫♪
If you are doing your Scrum sprints, don't forget the story point estimations, otherwise you won't be able to adjust your sprint velocity correctly and estimating your progress and remaining time gets increasingly harder.
I'd guess you are a software engineer with a few years of experience under their belt already. One thing here is the part from the agile manifesto "Interactions over processes and tools".
Sprintplanning is definitely something you can do, but for a small indie team such as ours, it is too deep in the agile sauce, and doesn't have as good of an ROI for us anymore. Working with sprints and milestones is the bare minimum, but remember that gamedev isn't just software engineers, but also marketing, art, sound design,... where story points can be a lot harder to plan, and having a dedicated PM/Scrum Master isn't always an option.
So try it out, but it's not as hard of a science in gamedev vs. traditional software engineering I'd say -M
@bitemegames I agree. I wasn't trying to suggest bloated concepts with more effort than effective use and results.
Just specifically stories point based estimates or just estimation based on artificial numbers representing the time consumption. They don't require much effort, increase in precision over time with experience and can offer an easy and visual way of accessing information about your progress and sprint velocity.
Dump that other scrum stuff xD
Fuck no. Kanban board, Trello suffice. Make tasks, do them. You will lose more time thinking about story board, estimation, planning, reviewing data than you gain out of it.
@anonimowelwiatko9811 let me repeat and summarize what you skipped in your thought process after reading all of this. I suggested a minimal version of story boards to achieve reliable velocity adjustments. If you do not want to adjust your speed or maybe you don't want to guess the amount of work you can do in a single sprint, then simply don't use it. You can easily work with sprints that don't have a fixed deadline. Also, by skipping time estimation, you will keep your stress low.
🔥🔥
Yeah, confidence is my biggest issue, no matter how much I cut my scope it is always at zero.
I have technically cut a scope to the point I had somewhat the confidence to complete it, but the end result just left me disappointed.
Start small. It can be pacman clone, tetris, pong, mario lvl 1. Then add up to it. Think about creating systems that are reusable so when you finish one feature, you can make a lot of content inside the game out of it.
Wen👏 Japanese👏 fountain girl👏sim👏
Features that I´ll never will put in my games: everything related to game as a service.
Pay to win, Free to pay but you have just a few stages to buy almost everything to have the complete game, locked content dlc (not "actual dlc", just locked content from the game that you arlredy own, but you have to pay more to unlock), season pass, paid skins, gacha/lootboxes (aren´t those banned in some countries? thanks EA, you´re the greediest of all), expensive overpowered dlc characters (compared to the characters of the Vanilla version), NFTs, Cryptogames, dlc hell (hundreds of dlcs), exclusive expensive dlc characters, seasonal dlcs (buy it now or you never have it, MOFO)...
I really HATE it all as a player.
Here's a great anti-feature: never build your engine.
1000% true. Been there, tried to do that. You will never make better tool than what already exists. Pick Godot, roll with it.
I don’t believe in sacrifices in choices by development ease improvements. It’s what destroys the main fun part in the game. Nowadays when the market is so rough, this doesn’t work. You either make a masterpiece and do a lot of money, or suffer from financial problems because your mid decisions don’t give you any normal income. It’s a truth of the current Gamedev. You should be dedicated to game dev and should not search for easy ways.
L take. You either take A LOT of time to create something really good (including prototyping, playtesting with people, taking feedback and reiterating) or you make smaller games working up your skills and gaining experience, project by project. You should either be making ideally mobile games for money or work with someone in industry (can be small indie studio). If you setup yourself for solo development, thinking that you can score big without any experience, you are up for a huge disappointment.
@@anonimowelwiatko9811 from my experience the second is not valid. Masterpieces are valuable now, and I don’t see any problem change 1000000 times the same game just to make it fun.
@@anonimowelwiatko9811 although of course you improve your skills, but it’s something what I don’t see valid in this case. You just can improve your main game-masterpiece
I'm sorry but you guys failed miserably with your game. You have no success in the industry. And I don't think you are someone who can give advice based on your skill level.
They never even claimed to, they only show how they did it and are very open about their mistakes and fails and give input in what one can try, giving tips and tricks and sharing their thoughts, which is very much appreciated by a lot of people who are also trying to make a game, but thank you so much for your 'constructive' feedback.
They finished and released a game, which is more than 90 percent of indie game devs can claim.
Having guys like this explain the reality versus a Cinderella story is way more useful for everyone. Especially since the wildly successful devs aren't giving away their secrets.
Seeing comments like this make me so much more thankful for BiteMe Games, who take their time to support other game devs with honest and constructive advice and reflection. The gamedev community should be more supportive and share actual insights of their gamedev journey - especially when it is not a commercial success. Because it takes a lot of failures before you reach success (but people tend to forget about that and just sell success stories) - and now we get the reflections and learnings for free
@@channyh.221B These guys are the REAL deal. They openly share their fails and their successes. So many "Making a game with zero experience" vids. BM focuses entirely on the aspects of Game Dev that are not related to the engine, and the work around it to build success.
Edit: Most of their content is being released under the banner of "This how we're doing this. It may work for you." They present the information and it's up to the viewer to walk away and utilize it or not. Basically YMMV.
Bad take.
Learning from mistakes is extremely effective. Not to mention, completing a game and selling it is a success within itself.