I really love how Rowan can be negative in such a profoundly positive way. These retrospectives are proper, professional-quality documentaries. This channel is a great example of how the divide between TV Networks and Content Creators isn't so significant as many would likely believe. I mean, this Retrospectives series is made by a single person and easily produced something as well researched and structured as anything a television crew could produce. OK, I'm done kissing Rowan's arse now.
I agree with you whole heartedly... Not only about this specific channel that makes great content (I have watched videos over an hour long on this channel, and the quality is always high) BUT what you have said is literally why i KNOW RUclips is such an amazing platform. I know RUclips isn't perfect... But I promise you that I watch the MOST content on this platform... When I was a kid... It was ALL cable tv
After my sister and I watched this movie, I turned to her and said, "Well, that was okay. I wonder what next week's episode will be like?" The movie felt more like a mid-tier TNG episode than an epic feature film. I think that was what disappointed most fans.
I thought the same thing. The part where the villagers was running and all hell broke loose kept expecting the screen go black and we see a To Be Continued... sign.
Yeah, at the time this was the biggest flaw with the film. It's a completely decent Trek episode, but you watched those for free on TV back then when there was seemingly always going to be a Trek series, and you paid money to go see this in theaters. For the value proposition of the price of a theater ticket, the film needed to exceed what a middling episode of a series could do, and this didn't. Unfortunately, Trek fans didn't know how good they had it at this exact moment in time, because soon enough, a "middling TV episode" quality for a film would have been far preferable, and the fact that there was always a Trek series airing on TV was no longer a guarantee.
Can believe how far along this project has come. It’s comprehensiveness is so impressive. Bet you’ll be stoked when Enterprise is done. The ones on the shows seem like so much more work than the movies. They’re always like four or five times as long.
Insurrection never really stood out to me as a kid but recently watching all the TNG movies, it somehow felt the most refreshing. The music is great, the villains are good, the Federation inner conflict plot is interesting. It's just all around safe Star Trek fun.
I enjoyed the fact that it didnt call back to anything and was an actual new story, and Picard's "How many people does it take, Admiral, before it becomes wrong?" Speech was one of the most memorable in all of ST for me.
@@sinistar99 Didn't he actually say that line in "Descent: Part 1" after she chewed his butt for their actions from "I Borg"? I think they missed a big opportunity not having her character in "Insurrection". Imagine the audience response if she was the one who was facelifted in Ru'afo's chair.
I have a GIANT soft spot for this movie. It was the first ST movie I saw at the cinema (on opening night with the old man) and I watched it on video repeatedly. I understand it's failings. But I can't help it. I love it too much. I suppose we all have that one movie you can't help but love.
@@kasterborous1701 bcz like first contact, it feels like a proper movie, good lighting, epic battles, villain, and epic shots. Insurrection is just to forgettable, it would be a good two parter, but the plot really doesn’t work that well for a movie
I've commented on every channel that has reviewed this movie, that Insurrection should've been a Dominion War epic. F. Murray Abraham could've been a great Vorta for Picard to try to outsmart.
Evidently, neither Berman nor Piller was keen on tying this film with the Dominion War that was occurring concurrently on Deep Space Nine - a show that _they_ created.
Well, Worf is a cast member on both shows, and we could justify having the Enterprise stopping at DS9 and have a war briefing with Sisko and Kira or something.
@@davidgorman994 On the contrary, the quadrant-wide war arguably needed the services and participations not only of the DS9 crew, but also those of TNG, and even some of the Original Series (Sulu at least, and perhaps Chekov and Uhura also). Alas, real-life scheduling or financial compensation issues...
@@bonghunezhou5051 Sure, in that universe, but it would have seem disrespectful to the cast and crew of DS9 for TNG to use *their* story and characters. A joint DS9/TNG movie? I could have got on board with that though. A TNG Dominion War story? Nah, come up with your own story, which they did.
“But where can warp-drive take us, except away from here” It’s not Picard’s view, it’s that of the Baku. To me it doesn’t seem off at all UNLESS it’s the writer trying to get us round to that way of thinking. If it’s simply meant as the PoV of the Baku then it feels very Star Trek. Showing the differences in potential cultures. As for Picard’s place in it, I think it’s entirely possible to love exploration and everything that comes with it but still be tempted by the prospect of a simpler life. Humans aren’t black and white, there a huge amount of nuance to it.
also the movie takes place during the Dominion war . in which interstellar powers use warp drive to fight each other . during these dark times Picard might have found the Baku's simplistic peaceful existence appealing
It's very much presented as something Picard is enticed by, though, like he's actually considering it. It's never presented as this ideology that he respects but disagrees with. And, no, "Family" is not a good counter, as the whole point there was that he would still get to explore, just from the safety of Earth. Even when scared enough to be tempted to stay home, he needed the possibility of exploring under the sea. He still needed to live living for the adventure rather than perpetually enjoying the moment
@@ZipplyZane I think you can be tempted by a simpler tech free life while ultimately still needing exploration, tech in your life when all is said and done. The impulses aren't necessarily contradictory. I think you can see the benefits of both. Even if it doesn't fully align in the finished film. Would be nice to see a longer directors cut of insurrection, where the general message has more depth to it all the same.
To me, Insurrection always felt like an elongated TV episode. That's not bad per se given how much I love TNG but it simply feels too small and planet-of-the-week-like for the big screen.
I was slightly let down the first time I watched this (because First Contact was so great and this paled in comparison). But a few months later it was in the dollar theater so I rewatched it with the mindset that "Insurrection is basically a very two hour long episode". And sure enough I had a very enjoyable time. I won't claim it to be earth shattering or genre redefining, but sometimes it is okay for a movie to be adequately entertaining. Insurrection is just that. And compared to Nemesis, it's a gem.
This is perhabs the problem most of the TNG movies had: They were made by the producers of the series, not by real cinema producers, unlike whose made by the TOS movie crew. They had worked so long for the small screen, that they couldn't feather anymore how much more they could do with a feature film.
@@notlobparrot3057 Yea that was the main thing I took away from it, it also had a greater effect because at the time I read it I'd just had a similar realization in my own working life and decided to do something about it. I think Fade In is part of Piller working through the art vs money conflict.
"Well, it's an odd one" is a pretty good summary of this movie to be honest. You see all the pieces there for a good space adventure movie, and it just never gets there.
I felt that Insurrection was a very "Star Trek" movie. It really honed in on the seeds of corruption within the Federation that could cause it to compromise its ideals for selfish gain. It showed the crew of the Enterprise defying unethical orders so that they could defend a boring and somewhat annoying species. That's the whole point: the Baku suck, but they still have rights. Though it took place around an insignificant backwater planet, it really was a battle for the heart and soul of the Federation.
The Baku aren't just boring and uninteresting, they're selfish. 300 People vs Billions who could benefit from the radiation. They didn't evolve on the planet and have advanced technology, so the prime directive should not apply. Picard didn't made that much fuzz when he was ordered to relocate the native americans from Dorvan V... I may have bought it if they had made the Baku natives with no technological knowledge and no ties to the Sona. And they should have somehow tied the movie in with the dominion war and DS9... It could still have been a light hearted reprieve from war. Great Retrospective again, I just love your series :) Looking forward to the next.
Everyone brings up the Native American episode for this movie but no one considers that perhaps, after his inner conflict in that episode, he feels that he acted wrongly and this is now his chance to atone.
@@tineye5100I agree, that thought came to mind after I sent the comment. The rest stands though :D The Baku are still selfish pricks. He may have misjudged the opportunity for atonement.
Please forgive my ignorance if you have answered this before, but did you study film production at uni? Either that or did Sir David Attenborough train you himself? Your quality of documentary genuinely feels at a highly professional level. You never cease to amaze me with all of your retrospectives. Thank you. Cheers.
I'm still baffled to this day that the Cardassians or Dominion were not the villains of this movie. The largest scale war in the history of the Federation is going on just a few light years away from the Briar Patch and it's barely mentioned in the film.
Listening to this is funny to me. I recently heard Dave Cullen's rewrite suggestion using the Dominion as background villains in the movie and a rework for the situation of the movie, having Picard face off against the warmongering militants in the Federation driven by the desperation of the Dominion War. Surprised they didn't use the Dominion honestly, as the timing was great for that war.
Movies can have weird timing. For them to use the dominion, they would have to realize, ahead of time, that Ds9's storyline would be as important and classic as that is. Isn't this producer the one that was against Ds9's serialization in the first place?
They kind of shoehorn the Dominion into the film but in a very roundabout way. Basically, that the So'naa or whatever they're called are free agents who are working with the Dominion and the Federation during the war, and that the whole reason Dougherty is bending over backwards to get them what they want is at least in part to keep them from going full Dominion allies and potentially turning them into Federation allies. The thing is, this isn't made super clear. It's also not made super clear that the reason Picard and the Enterprise are doing so many diplomatic missions at the start is to use the Enterprise as a flagship on a diplomacy tour to win as many allies to the Federation's side during the Dominion war for the sake of building up a stronger front against them. All of this is mentioned in the movie, it's just done in an often off-handed way. So the Dominion are already basically background villains in the movie, but too indirectly to be noticed really, since the immediate villains are the Sonaa, and the directly background villain is Dougherty, who is under pressure due to the deep background villains the Dominion.
When my friends and I saw this in the theatres we collectively agreed that it was the worst TNG movie and yet the best representation of the TNG series. At this point we were spoiled by DS9 serialized story telling elements that this felt like a standalone run of the mill episode. You could delete this movie from all recorded history and continuity wouldn't suffer from it at all. Great video nonetheless! Thank you!🖖💕
@@Redrally good point. I sometimes forget that people can be invested in character development even if it's the same relationship dynamics they already repeated. Outside of Data and Jordi, I find the TNG crew very boring. They seem like nice people but its like a starship full of mormons.
@@phreadimus4now136 this is why I wasn't a TNG fan. I didn't really like the crew. I only liked Picard after you find out that he was a fuck up that had to get stabbed in the heart to get his shit together
I have to say I personally ranked this the highest of the TNG films. Of course, I could be a little biased because I was in my early 40s when it was released, and well.. you know... Donna Murphy, eye candy for a middle-aged guy like me at the time!!! However, I had no problem with the Baku being understated as that would be consistent with their apparent profile as a humanoid species with a 500+ year lifespan (seen it all, been there, done that). I have wondered if Michael Piller's inspiration for the Baku might have been in part, the humans of the 24th Century in the Twilight Zone episode "Quarantine" (starring Scott Wilson and Tess harper) who are a post WWIII, post-technology society in which individuals have specialized psychic abilities and a direct relationship with the natural world. They could go anywhere in the universe just by imagining it - they wouldn't need warp drive either. On a sadder note, Stephanie Niznik, the actress who played the minor role of Ensign Kell Perim, the Trill you catch a brief glimpse of in this video, died in 2019 from Chronic Liver Disease due to Alcohol abuse. R.I.P. Stephanie !
I used to think that working economically was akin to "selling out" an artistic vision but over your series I've realized the incredible value of doing things within budget. The TOS movies wouldn't exist without people working within budgets. Would they have been better without using redressed sets? Not clear, but redressing sets allowed them to be made.
There is another advantage in forcing yourself to work within a budget. If forces you to think creatively on how to make the biggest impact while being as efficient as possible with the resources made available to you.
@@hypotheticalaxolotl That is another good point. Sometimes it's better to hint at things than to simply show the big monster. Leaving things to the audience's imagination can at times be even scarier than what the director can come up with and put on screen.
It’s so strange to me that people don’t love this movie. It’s my very favorite of the TNG movies and I didn’t learn until many years later that it’s not well received by fans. Even hearing and understanding the criticisms it still doesn’t fully make sense to me that people don’t love this movie as much as I do.
I recently watched this movie here on youtube. I really liked it. It's a masterpiece compared to the more recent Star Trek movies. Patrick Stewart is FANTASTIC!
Whether the movies is good or not, the score ALWAYS hits the nail on the head in these flix. Since the beginning of season 3, the music in this franchise has been A++. The movies have only raised the bar higher. Another great job on this one.
Another great retrospective! I'll be honest, I enjoyed Insurrection alot better than I did First Contact. The Borg didn't just creep me out in First Contact, they scared the absolute shit out of me (I was only ten years old when I first saw it), and I thought Insurrection did a really great job at showcasing pretty much all of the main characters in a way we hadn't seen since the show ended in 1994 since both Generations and First Contact focused the most on Picard. Sure, Troi and Crusher really didn't have anything to do in this movie, something that's been a problem for these movies in general, but at least Crusher got more screentime than she had in Generations.
You know, now that you've said that... it feels like had the centre of the energy-stealing operation affected some alien equivalent of Blue Whales, this would have worked better. In fact showing _any_ wildlife would have improved everything immensely. _That's why_ the Baku are so dull. Their culture is said, not shown. It's painted on. Perfectly healed sheep & lions would still be sheep & lions needing to eat to live. They had no culture at all except wanting to stay there, making them look like The Only Reason That the Federation couldn't use what they had, which left the lingering "well why don't t'all arrange a place on the planet for federation members to visit?" It's not like without $ they had a commercial need to sell this back home.
I thought I disliked this film ... until I saw Nemesis. I think its worst crime was that it repeated a plot first explored in the series - only paradoxically taking the opposite conclusion to the same problem for the climax.
I genuinely like "Insurrection." And I think probably THE key difference between people who like this movie and people who don't is the point Rowan hits on about not caring about the Baku. Obviously, NO offense intended to Rowan whatsoever for his stance, as he's approaching this from a narrative analysis perspective rather than a "real world" perspective, so I know his view is not intended as callous in ANY way (and no offense to anyone else really, because I think this is largely a subconscious process for them, despite the possible implications) . . . but for general audiences, I think it boils down to the disconnect between empathetic personality types: some people default to "why should I care about these nobodies, they're boring, what do they have to offer me" versus "they're people, they don't have to be interesting or special or valuable for us care about their plight." And whether or not the do this in real life, it DEFINITELY affects people's enjoyment of fiction. This is actually part of in-movie narrative, from the standpoint of the Federation ("These people aren't important, we can do what we want") vs Picard ("We don't DECIDE who's important, we do what's RIGHT") and forms the basis of why he's the unambiguous hero of the piece. But it ALSO forms a meta-narrative out of the audience: do you find the Baku disposable, and thus the conflict of the movie doesn't have high stakes? Or do you relate to them simply on the grounds that all living beings are valid, and thus the movie is compelling the full way through? In this regard, making the Baku bland and dull may not have been a compelling narrative (and thus, financial) choice, and thus clearly contributed to the disappointing returns . . . but I think it turned out to be a truly fascinating (if unintended) SOCIAL commentary on the Star Trek fandom as a whole.
I do feel you've hit it right on the head there. At least that's been MY take on it. While not my fave of the whole film series, I do (mostly enjoy it). Some of the humour falls a bit flat/is a lil cringe in spots, but it still fits the character. :) It's a solid outing that addresses power and its responsibility. As Picard argues: how many, admiral, BEFORE it's wrong? One can also point out that this isn't so terribly long after Journey's End in the series where Picard was ordered to do this very thing and, was going to, so that mission would likely still be very much on his mind and open a bit of a wound for him. Thus setting him even MORE squarely on the side of the Baku. - This far, no further! in a sense.
The reason I didn't like it is because the Federation isn't really the "Federation" anymore. Everyone is slight just off kilter. Like, the Admiral wants the "fountain of youth," but, seems to ignore the idea that they can just scan the thing for a decade or two, and get the same effect with their technology. There's an infinite amount of supplies you can get from a replicator, so, why not do that? Or look into cellular regeneration, which IS shown to be possible in the universe. The entire federation seems stagnant technology wise, completely incapable of figuring out the effect, and just how to replicate it.
@@Jaydogg222 . . . Uh . . . where do you see "gatekeeping?" 'Cuz I fail to see, at any point, where I called anyone wrong for their opinion of the film, or for not agreeing with my perspective, or made a moral judgment against anyone who didn't like the Baku or the movie, or at any point said anyone who didn't like it "isn't a true fan," or . . . well, really, ANY of the hallmarks of traditional gatekeeping. So . . . kinda confused? I posited a theory that liking or not liking the movie is very likely tied to caring or not caring about the Baku, and that this might be tied to each individual's (largely subconscious) sense of empathy (whether only in fiction or in real life as well), and could be an interesting social study of the audience, but I quite specifically didn't criticize anyone for falling one way or the other, because it is JUST a theory, and I could be entirely wrong. **shrug**
@@Batman1016 After having watched this part of the retrospective and not agreeing with the makers opinion about the movie, because i do like it quite a bit, i would even go as far and say that your theory is quite right and that Jaydogg here is one of those, that do not empathize with the plight of the Baku or maybe even with people of a similar problem in reality..... but then again i could be wrong and he just said it to get your attention or invalidate your theory "just because". Afterhaving read your inirial commentary i do feel like you're on the right track here. Because i see it like Picard that the Baku don't need to be special or flashy or interesting in any special way to have someone else care about them. They are human beings and this should be enough to care about their plight. And this is probably why i like the movie but i never analysed it any deeper why i do like it. So thank you for your theory, to me it makes sense.
I have a soft spot for Insurerction. Mostly because it was the first ST movie I saw in the cinema. I had seen TNG and the TOS movies prior to this and had yet to know of DS9 and VOY. (Latter two were the odd VHS' in the Sci-Fi section of the local rental shop) Now years later, I am more critical of it, but I still feel is a decent romp to watch. I actually rate it a bit higher than Generations, personally. (A movie I had seen a couple of years earlier on VHS). But that's, in part, due to my preference for banthering comedy, rather than drama´, which I feel flowed better in this movie, rather than Generations. First Contact being my fall back, when I want a Star Trek movie I enjoy, Insurrection is my 2nd alternate, Undiscovered Country, being my 1st alternate.
I think it says a lot that Stewart’s concern was the sort shrift given Data/Spiner and not the size or prominence of his role - and that he was unconcerned about the concept of showing himeslf/Picard as old. It’s almost like the anti-Shatner. Although I greatly dislike the final product
That's typically Stewart's way. Let me tell you a story... A mong time ago, when the seasons of ST:tng started to be released in France, he came to Paris to make a junket type interview (around 10 journalists around a table with him). Since some of the journalists were not fluent in English, someone was here to translate the answers... during one of those pause, Stewart got up, took some coffee, and started to go around the table, reserving everyone with coffee as well. So non-Hollywood attitude, so classy...
I did not know about the additional scenes and the whole 'clutter' theme - you're right in your assessment: that would've made a FAR more interesting and cohesive story for a Star Trek film.
I saw this movie for the first time when I came home from tripping my balls off on magic mushrooms, I was still having some visual effects, although not too severe. What a treat was that. Oh that takes me back to better days, carefree and young...
I know I'm in the minority but this is my favorite of the TNG era movies (Voyage Home is still my favorite overall.) I just love badass Picard going up against the admiral - that scene where he is inspecting his arsenal of weapons in a leather jacket was for me, so iconic.
I agree that the plot and main story of the movie are basically an "alien of the week" episode of tng, but the character interplay of the main cast makes this better than advertised.
The name "Ba'Ku" translates to Federation English as "Sad Beige". Excellent series of retrospectives. It says something, that it's made me want to watch the TNG movies again.
I just finished all of your retrospectives in the last three days. This one is current while I'm writing this comment. Thank you so mich for all the work you put into these. It is a huge undertaking. Great material.
Im honestly wondering if the current fan reaction to Insurrection has more to do with how terrible Nemesis was. It's almost seems like once people saw how bad Nemesis is, the world said "we're sorry. We never should have complained. Please make Nemesis go away. We like Insurrection. We swear. 😰" lol
De evoluting cultures were already seen in Star Trek, "Up the long Ladder" in season 2 of TNG was one of them. It's concievable that after discovering the marvels of the universe, someone wise decides that they have had enough and settle down in a simple way of life. The ship even had both super advanced scientists as well as simple life orientated people on board and the mission split in two. It doesn't seem out of place, it's just a possible way of things turning out, especially if given that gift of eternal youth and remember that not all were in accord with one another or there wouldn't have been the schizm between the Bak'u and the Son'a in the first place. The latter kept their technology, solidified a space faring civilization through slavery and alliance with the Dominion and prepared themselves to get through force what the others sacrificed their way of life for, eternal youth. That's a powerful struggle of abnegation vs selfishness. I don't see what's out of place here. Starfleet was the observer, unaware of the Son'a hidden agenda and origins, thinking that they would get a new miraculous medication for many diseases with peace assured even if it involved displacing "only" 600 people to save millions. The Admiral himself being old, his hubris is also to blame and it blinded him to other possibilities. That just tells us that wisdom is not necessarily correlated with age. Age can also accentuate frustration and hubris in a debilitating manner. Some old people don't age up like good wine but turn to vinager instead, I witnessed it myself. In this regard, Picard's mutiny is perfectly justified. That being said, the Bak'u development is a little thin, I'll give you that. Anij's argument to not have learned to swim in 300 years is quite nonsensical to say the least unless she might just be trolling Picard right there like flirting teenagers would.
Also: The Baku knew everything about Warp etc. They just had found the perfect planet for them. That's perhabs the difference to humanity: a. our planet is not perfect and b. when they invented Warp drive, they just came out of the Eugenic Wars and the Third World War! Going to the Stars was therefore a great opportunity. But when you have everything you espire - why go somewhere else. The Baku are a bit like the Amish. They found their "holy lands" and now they cherish them and stay there. Technology would just disturb their peace.
Ah yes, I saw a trailer for this in the cinema once and a random person behind us uttered "Star Trek...Worf's Errection" And too this day it still tickles me and the film has always been named that to me.
Another fabulous entry, Rowan. Genuinely cannot wait for every installment. Your retrospective always shine a totally neutral light on things whilst retaining your unmissable passion and enthusiasm for all things Trek. It's not to say you shy away from negative opinion but they are all put in such an elegant, evidenced way which is a far cry from many anti-NuTrek 'fans' today. Truthfully I'm so looking forward to your eventual dive into NuTrek overall. Sure to ruffle some feathers and I'm here for it.
To be fair, I have always ranked Inserection highly among Star Trek films. I can find something to like in all four TNG films, but this along with First Contact is one of my favorites. Granted, the core concept wasn't ground breaking, but it was a nice ensemble piece with plenty of character, and gave us a good look at them and the Federation in general. I also loved the chemestry between Picard and Anij. Though a part of me ships him and Beverly a lot of the time, I personally thought that Anij made a good match for him, and had my own personal headcanon of him returning to and settling down with her after he retires from Star Fleet. But that's just my crazy happy ending driven imagination for you.
Honestly, the Ba'ku might have worked better if they'd fled their homeworld after the Son'a turned up, found the Space Fountain of Youth and some of the Ba'ku got assimilated into a sona, who hate the Ba'ku who left them behind. That way, the Ba'ku associate space with scary life stealing aliens who want to kill them, which then slowly transitions into "where can warp drive take us except into Son'a slave pens". I know this isn't quite what Pillar had in mind, but neither was Insurrections final cut.
Huh. One of my favorites tho. Picard, unlike Kirk, tends to solve problems with empathy. Not tech, not violence; empathy. Either to understand an enemy, or bring out the best from his crew, even if the crew is children stuck in a lift. So that line at the end never bothered me. Picard, traumatized by the Borg, family lost, aging... He's tempted to turn inward. To turn away from the universe. He can understand when she says that line: Where could a starship take us except away from here? That is wise. He can see it, see what these people have and how they live. He's lamented before giving up marriage, children, a home, for the ship. But he doesn't want it personally. Anyway, thanks for another great video review.
Really enjoying watching my way through these retrospectives, really well researched and presented with just enough smattering of opinion to give it a personal touch. Edit: another great factor in these retrospectives is that they are narrated and enunciated well enough that RUclips's auto subtitles are actually accurate so makes them good to watch on the quiet. I'd agree that insurrection isnt the strongest film, the only scene that really sticks in my memory and wasn't one dominated by F Murray Abraham, was when they were shooting the transporter tags from the drones, so I guess that says a lot about how impactful the film was on the whole.
I really like this film, flaws and all. Great to hear Goldsmith's score got the respect it deserves here, it's a masterpiece, perhaps his 2nd best ST score after TMP.
as a 14 yo kid, I thought this movie was friggen awesome lol. nowadays I don't like it as much but I still appreciate the good parts and late-version TNG cast, since it was basically the last time they were together in something that wasn't horrible.
I felt a little different; yes, the Baku may be boring, but I felt that the drama wasn't really about them; it was about doing the right thing vs. going along with the Federation.
This is a great video. The disconnect between Piller’s original vision for this film and the final product is a real shame - I think there was a real potential for a really great Star Trek story. Instead, while the film starts off with some intriguing premises, it falls apart in the middle and the genuinely entertaining sequences involving the Enterprise towards the end aren’t really enough to right the ship, so to speak. Nemesis is often stated as bringing the TNG era to its end, but in some ways I think it was Insurrection and it’s failure to maintain the momentum established by the success of First Contact that led to a sort of decline in the image of Star Trek in broader pop culture. Even before Nemesis was released, I remember a general atmosphere when it was being advertised that seemed like Star Trek was a bit tired and out of steam.
The alien Picard idea and the idea of bringing back Lore would have been better. Personally I think they should have made a movie about the Dominion War.
Such well researched and presented media like this series have been a major contributor to my growing interest in research and writing. The quality of work you present is genuinely inspiring. Thanks for the hard work you so obviously put into these videos - it doesn't go unnoticed. It's refreshing in contrast with all the top ten lists being pumped out.
It’s also worth remembering that this plot is quite similar to the seventh season episode “journey’s end” where they are asked to remove the Native Americans (federation citizens no less) and do, but decide to help the current residents of a disputed planet this time.
Which is odd, that we have this supposedly morally superior federation that is above material wants, deciding that they need this specific plot of land, instead of using their infinite supplies, and they are going into the "Fountain of Youth." And that is even With technology to effectively remain youthful anyway. I don't think plastic surgery is going to be this big taboo, and remain unresearched since the time of First Contact. That doesn't even consider the idea of celluar regeneration and cloning.
@@SImrobert2001 Well by this time (as DS9 was on the air) the Federation has been shown to be more nuanced than the utopian vision presented in the TOS. It's not hard to see some rogue admirals wanting to do something, or even a "needs of the many" argument from the federation as a whole. I just am amused by the same script getting the different treatment as the episode on tv.
The part where Stewart is told they didn't want to do a the story because they thought it would upset him is kinda funny because it is one of these US problems they have with youth. They forgot that he is British and he has no issues with it as most of our TV shows and movies are filled with average old people, especially in the 90s. They projected their own issues onto him and almost lost a good story because of it.
Looking forward to your Nemesis video. It had a director that wasn't familiar with Star Trek at all, which lead to the deletion of a lot of really good scenes and the insertion of an early action sequence where Picard blatantly violates the Prime Directive. Wish Frakes had directed the John Logan screenplay.
Good video on a semi-forgotten movie. The one thing I never understood about ST Insurrection was how non-existent the marketing was for this film. I don’t know how accessible data on movie marketing is but it would be interesting to see that mentioned in your video to get some idea of how hard tge studio was pushing a film or how much they believed in it. With this film I get the distinct impression that Paramount knew they had a dud before it ever came out. I remember that there was lots of summertime excitement in the weeks before First Contact came out and everyone I knew had downloaded the trailer and pre-purchased their tickets for First Contact. With Insurrection I remember being at work on a Tuesday or Wednesday in Dec 98 and discovering that a new Star Trek movie was coming out. It almost felt like the film was just being dumped into theaters. I don’t remember seeing a trailer for the film in a theater or a tv or web ad until the week it came out. It also felt weird seeing Insurrection released in December, as big space franchise movies just feel like they should be summer blockbuster movies. ST Generations felt like that for me too as I think I saw it around Thanksgiving.
1:59 They already did that in an episode of TNG. Which is a bad sign at the start-- they were making a two-hour TV episode rather than a movie. The only thing missing from _Insurrection_ were the commercial breaks.
Rowan your detailed insights into star trek are always appreciated but when you say the Baku are boring, hinting at why would anyone want to save them, I think that is selling them short. I think that’s not the reason it was not as beloved as some other Next Generation movies, I think the baddies (the rejected Baku) were just a bit too over the top. It could have been a bit more nuanced. I can imagine a people that have almost eternal life becoming quite relaxed in their existence. Which I think was portrayed pretty well.
Another wonderful Retro, Brother! Brings me back a few. Always look forward to your vids. Always felt this could've been shortened into a decent TNG episode if they cut a bunch of the goofyness. I remember talking the same idea with a buddy as we were coming out of the theater. Definitely some annoying and unnecessary baku characters. Ok, all of'em. Michael Horton was great as Lt. Daniels in this and First Contact. Did they explain why Geordi's eyes grew 'back' even though he was born blind? The baku's slow-mo power thing was never used in any practical way? They Weren't Indigenous To That Planet!!
SOME TIMES THE TREK MUST END AND I CAN SEE NO BETTER PLACE TO END THAN IN PARADISE. IT IS A GREAT THING IF TECHNOLOGY TAKES YOU TO NEW WORLDS BUT IT IS ALSO STRESS INDUCING. A NATURAL BALANCE IS THE BEST, THAT IS WHAT IS FOUND IN THIS MOVIE.
In regards to technology being so transformative it was for earth after cochran. But Q tells Picard that it’s not about exploring planets and the universe but their minds. The Baku seem to be on there way to understanding and manipulating time in a way Picard and the federation aren’t going to get to with technology.
Insurrection is a good movie. It's just not "First Contact 2", like a lot of people expected. This has harmed its reputation much more than any actual issues with quality. Taken in isolation as a TNG adventure, it's actually very entertaining and more in line with the feel of TNG series than any of the other TNG movies. For me, Generations is a jumbled mess that feels like a cross between Search for Spoke and The Motion Picture. First Contact is a great action movie. Insurrection is a good adventure movie. Nemesis was TNG cast shoehorned into DS9-eque story that forget it could build from already well-established Romulan lore from TNG and DS9.
I'm glad you touched on the reversal of the "core ethos" in this film. I never understood how the anti-religion, anti-superstition, anti-dark-ages Picard could suddenly give up space travel, his "home," so quickly.
Honestly I think it's one of the more underrated Star Trek movies personally. I like it more than IV. It's not top tier, I know. But I can't help but enjoy almost everything about the movie.
You pointed out that you could forget Artim's father was in the film, but this guy is a legend. Go and check out a 1980s video and you'll find he was McCormack in Hardcastle and McCormack.
HELP THE CHANNEL GROW: www.patreon.com/rowanjcoleman
"Let's make this a light-hearted adventure story! Like Heart of Darkness!"
i'm dead xD
😂😂😂
holy F i'm dying, these white people 😂😂
I'm trying to process the idea that someone thought they'd improve a Star Trek movie by taking Quark out of it, and failing miserably.
I dunno, it would feel like fanservice to me unless there was a real reason for him to be there
Hoomans, what are they good for?
Should be a rule for that. Some kind along the way of "Rule of Action in a Movie"
adding two hours of Quark cameos wouldn't have saved this turkey
I’m certain removing a popular item from a product for no good reason breaks one of the Rules of Acquisition.
I really love how Rowan can be negative in such a profoundly positive way.
These retrospectives are proper, professional-quality documentaries.
This channel is a great example of how the divide between TV Networks and Content Creators isn't so significant as many would likely believe.
I mean, this Retrospectives series is made by a single person and easily produced something as well researched and structured as anything a television crew could produce.
OK, I'm done kissing Rowan's arse now.
I agree with you whole heartedly... Not only about this specific channel that makes great content (I have watched videos over an hour long on this channel, and the quality is always high) BUT what you have said is literally why i KNOW RUclips is such an amazing platform. I know RUclips isn't perfect... But I promise you that I watch the MOST content on this platform... When I was a kid... It was ALL cable tv
You can tell that he sees all the people involved as human.
Well said!!!
Such kind words thank you
@@RowanCharlton
I assume it's a quality all Rowans share. I've never met a bad one yet.
The ending where F. Murray Abraham is de-aged to death sounds amazing. I wish they'd used that instead of killing him in a generic explosion.
Exactly. It's the "Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it."
They already had that in a TNG episode though and apparently it simply didnt look that good.
I hate the ending we got. The Enterprise commit murder by not beaming up Ruafo. Sure, he’s the bad guy but everyone deserves a fair trial.
Oh, Salieri... will you ever stop yearning for that which you cannot have?
After my sister and I watched this movie, I turned to her and said, "Well, that was okay. I wonder what next week's episode will be like?"
The movie felt more like a mid-tier TNG episode than an epic feature film. I think that was what disappointed most fans.
I thought the same thing. The part where the villagers was running and all hell broke loose kept expecting the screen go black and we see a To Be Continued... sign.
Which is why I like this movie!
I don't enjoy when Star Trek does bombastic action at all....
Yeah, at the time this was the biggest flaw with the film. It's a completely decent Trek episode, but you watched those for free on TV back then when there was seemingly always going to be a Trek series, and you paid money to go see this in theaters. For the value proposition of the price of a theater ticket, the film needed to exceed what a middling episode of a series could do, and this didn't.
Unfortunately, Trek fans didn't know how good they had it at this exact moment in time, because soon enough, a "middling TV episode" quality for a film would have been far preferable, and the fact that there was always a Trek series airing on TV was no longer a guarantee.
Also, I kept thinking that the crew was in the wrong. The good of many outweighs the good of few.
the sad thing was there was a TNG episode exactly like this one and a bad one at that
Can believe how far along this project has come. It’s comprehensiveness is so impressive. Bet you’ll be stoked when Enterprise is done. The ones on the shows seem like so much more work than the movies. They’re always like four or five times as long.
Insurrection never really stood out to me as a kid but recently watching all the TNG movies, it somehow felt the most refreshing. The music is great, the villains are good, the Federation inner conflict plot is interesting. It's just all around safe Star Trek fun.
I enjoyed the fact that it didnt call back to anything and was an actual new story, and Picard's "How many people does it take, Admiral, before it becomes wrong?" Speech was one of the most memorable in all of ST for me.
Yes I just couldn’t help but keep seeing his speech in “Journey’s End”. I guess Admiral Nechayev intimidated him too much to have an Insurrection.
@@Restitutor_Orbis_214 Sure but in I Borg he really lets her have it with the strong rebuttal: "Yes, Sir!" :)
He showed her!
@@sinistar99 Didn't he actually say that line in "Descent: Part 1" after she chewed his butt for their actions from "I Borg"? I think they missed a big opportunity not having her character in "Insurrection". Imagine the audience response if she was the one who was facelifted in Ru'afo's chair.
@@Restitutor_Orbis_214 That's right Descent! They were talking about I Borg! Still he really let her have it!
I have a GIANT soft spot for this movie. It was the first ST movie I saw at the cinema (on opening night with the old man) and I watched it on video repeatedly. I understand it's failings. But I can't help it. I love it too much. I suppose we all have that one movie you can't help but love.
I love Insurrection. It’s the movie most like an actual TNG episode.
If this had been a two-part episode, it would have been great. It just didn't have the panache of a film.
thats exactly why people don't like it
@@sametortoise4125 "This Star Trek is too much like Star Trek, therefore I don't like it" is certainly an interesting take...
@@kasterborous1701 bcz like first contact, it feels like a proper movie, good lighting, epic battles, villain, and epic shots. Insurrection is just to forgettable, it would be a good two parter, but the plot really doesn’t work that well for a movie
@@sametortoise4125 why? It’s Star Trek. Have you really got to a stage where you need big bang whallop explosions to make a movie good?
I've commented on every channel that has reviewed this movie, that Insurrection should've been a Dominion War epic. F. Murray Abraham could've been a great Vorta for Picard to try to outsmart.
Evidently, neither Berman nor Piller was keen on tying this film with the Dominion War that was occurring concurrently on Deep Space Nine - a show that _they_ created.
I'd only want a Dominion War movie if it involved the DS9 crew. It would feel disrespectful to use that plot otherwise.
Well, Worf is a cast member on both shows, and we could justify having the Enterprise stopping at DS9 and have a war briefing with Sisko and Kira or something.
@@davidgorman994 On the contrary, the quadrant-wide war arguably needed the services and participations not only of the DS9 crew, but also those of TNG, and even some of the Original Series (Sulu at least, and perhaps Chekov and Uhura also). Alas, real-life scheduling or financial compensation issues...
@@bonghunezhou5051 Sure, in that universe, but it would have seem disrespectful to the cast and crew of DS9 for TNG to use *their* story and characters. A joint DS9/TNG movie? I could have got on board with that though. A TNG Dominion War story? Nah, come up with your own story, which they did.
“But where can warp-drive take us, except away from here”
It’s not Picard’s view, it’s that of the Baku. To me it doesn’t seem off at all UNLESS it’s the writer trying to get us round to that way of thinking. If it’s simply meant as the PoV of the Baku then it feels very Star Trek. Showing the differences in potential cultures. As for Picard’s place in it, I think it’s entirely possible to love exploration and everything that comes with it but still be tempted by the prospect of a simpler life. Humans aren’t black and white, there a huge amount of nuance to it.
Picard expressed as much in the TNG episode "Family" when tempted to accept a job on earth.
also the movie takes place during the Dominion war . in which interstellar powers use warp drive to fight each other . during these dark times Picard might have found the Baku's simplistic peaceful existence appealing
It's very much presented as something Picard is enticed by, though, like he's actually considering it. It's never presented as this ideology that he respects but disagrees with.
And, no, "Family" is not a good counter, as the whole point there was that he would still get to explore, just from the safety of Earth. Even when scared enough to be tempted to stay home, he needed the possibility of exploring under the sea. He still needed to live living for the adventure rather than perpetually enjoying the moment
@@ZipplyZane I think you can be tempted by a simpler tech free life while ultimately still needing exploration, tech in your life when all is said and done. The impulses aren't necessarily contradictory. I think you can see the benefits of both. Even if it doesn't fully align in the finished film. Would be nice to see a longer directors cut of insurrection, where the general message has more depth to it all the same.
To me, Insurrection always felt like an elongated TV episode. That's not bad per se given how much I love TNG but it simply feels too small and planet-of-the-week-like for the big screen.
I was slightly let down the first time I watched this (because First Contact was so great and this paled in comparison). But a few months later it was in the dollar theater so I rewatched it with the mindset that "Insurrection is basically a very two hour long episode". And sure enough I had a very enjoyable time. I won't claim it to be earth shattering or genre redefining, but sometimes it is okay for a movie to be adequately entertaining. Insurrection is just that. And compared to Nemesis, it's a gem.
This is perhabs the problem most of the TNG movies had: They were made by the producers of the series, not by real cinema producers, unlike whose made by the TOS movie crew. They had worked so long for the small screen, that they couldn't feather anymore how much more they could do with a feature film.
"Fade In" is SOOOO good. I've never read a Behind-The-Scenes account quite like it.
I think I still have it saved on an old HDD. It's a great read, the script excerpts are not. It never read like it would be a good movie.
@@keyserni I think that's one of the things I love about it. That disconnect between the passion and the product.
@@notlobparrot3057 Yea that was the main thing I took away from it, it also had a greater effect because at the time I read it I'd just had a similar realization in my own working life and decided to do something about it. I think Fade In is part of Piller working through the art vs money conflict.
@@keyserni 100%
"Well, it's an odd one" is a pretty good summary of this movie to be honest. You see all the pieces there for a good space adventure movie, and it just never gets there.
I felt that Insurrection was a very "Star Trek" movie. It really honed in on the seeds of corruption within the Federation that could cause it to compromise its ideals for selfish gain. It showed the crew of the Enterprise defying unethical orders so that they could defend a boring and somewhat annoying species. That's the whole point: the Baku suck, but they still have rights. Though it took place around an insignificant backwater planet, it really was a battle for the heart and soul of the Federation.
The Baku aren't just boring and uninteresting, they're selfish. 300 People vs Billions who could benefit from the radiation. They didn't evolve on the planet and have advanced technology, so the prime directive should not apply. Picard didn't made that much fuzz when he was ordered to relocate the native americans from Dorvan V...
I may have bought it if they had made the Baku natives with no technological knowledge and no ties to the Sona. And they should have somehow tied the movie in with the dominion war and DS9... It could still have been a light hearted reprieve from war.
Great Retrospective again, I just love your series :) Looking forward to the next.
Everyone brings up the Native American episode for this movie but no one considers that perhaps, after his inner conflict in that episode, he feels that he acted wrongly and this is now his chance to atone.
@@tineye5100I agree, that thought came to mind after I sent the comment.
The rest stands though :D The Baku are still selfish pricks. He may have misjudged the opportunity for atonement.
Just finished watching Undiscovered Country and this popped up. What a trekkiey day!
Please forgive my ignorance if you have answered this before, but did you study film production at uni? Either that or did Sir David Attenborough train you himself? Your quality of documentary genuinely feels at a highly professional level. You never cease to amaze me with all of your retrospectives. Thank you. Cheers.
Yes I have a Bachelors in TV and Film :)
@@RowanJColeman well, it didn't go to waste.
@@gabsrants damn straight
So THERE WAS at least a suggestion for a Lore movie??
There you have it: Star Trek's biggest missed cinematic opportunity. That's heartbreaking.
I'm still baffled to this day that the Cardassians or Dominion were not the villains of this movie. The largest scale war in the history of the Federation is going on just a few light years away from the Briar Patch and it's barely mentioned in the film.
Which is ironic, as the Baku would have made way more sense if they were Bajorans.
Can't wait to see you tackle Nemesis!
Listening to this is funny to me.
I recently heard Dave Cullen's rewrite suggestion using the Dominion as background villains in the movie and a rework for the situation of the movie, having Picard face off against the warmongering militants in the Federation driven by the desperation of the Dominion War.
Surprised they didn't use the Dominion honestly, as the timing was great for that war.
It was such a missed opportunity to use the Dominion.
Movies can have weird timing. For them to use the dominion, they would have to realize, ahead of time, that Ds9's storyline would be as important and classic as that is. Isn't this producer the one that was against Ds9's serialization in the first place?
@@SImrobert2001 Rick Berman was against serializing DS9.
@@Xondar11223344 That is right. And Rick is the one in charge of insurrection, correct? Of course he would hate the dominion plotline.
They kind of shoehorn the Dominion into the film but in a very roundabout way. Basically, that the So'naa or whatever they're called are free agents who are working with the Dominion and the Federation during the war, and that the whole reason Dougherty is bending over backwards to get them what they want is at least in part to keep them from going full Dominion allies and potentially turning them into Federation allies.
The thing is, this isn't made super clear. It's also not made super clear that the reason Picard and the Enterprise are doing so many diplomatic missions at the start is to use the Enterprise as a flagship on a diplomacy tour to win as many allies to the Federation's side during the Dominion war for the sake of building up a stronger front against them.
All of this is mentioned in the movie, it's just done in an often off-handed way. So the Dominion are already basically background villains in the movie, but too indirectly to be noticed really, since the immediate villains are the Sonaa, and the directly background villain is Dougherty, who is under pressure due to the deep background villains the Dominion.
Never quite understood the hatred for this film. Granted it's not the best, but it's still an thoroughly enjoyable romp.
I think the problem it's too much like an episode then a movie. certainingly not a horrible movie but the weakest of the TNG era
Then Worf suddenly has a purple space bazooka.
When my friends and I saw this in the theatres we collectively agreed that it was the worst TNG movie and yet the best representation of the TNG series. At this point we were spoiled by DS9 serialized story telling elements that this felt like a standalone run of the mill episode. You could delete this movie from all recorded history and continuity wouldn't suffer from it at all. Great video nonetheless! Thank you!🖖💕
Well apart from Will and Deanna rekindling their feelings for each other
Watched in in the theatre with my friend who said "that was a decent TNG episode."
@@Redrally good point. I sometimes forget that people can be invested in character development even if it's the same relationship dynamics they already repeated. Outside of Data and Jordi, I find the TNG crew very boring. They seem like nice people but its like a starship full of mormons.
@@phreadimus4now136 this is why I wasn't a TNG fan. I didn't really like the crew. I only liked Picard after you find out that he was a fuck up that had to get stabbed in the heart to get his shit together
I have to say I personally ranked this the highest of the TNG films. Of course, I could be a little biased because I was in my early 40s when it was released, and well.. you know... Donna Murphy, eye candy for a middle-aged guy like me at the time!!! However, I had no problem with the Baku being understated as that would be consistent with their apparent profile as a humanoid species with a 500+ year lifespan (seen it all, been there, done that). I have wondered if Michael Piller's inspiration for the Baku might have been in part, the humans of the 24th Century in the Twilight Zone episode "Quarantine" (starring Scott Wilson and Tess harper) who are a post WWIII, post-technology society in which individuals have specialized psychic abilities and a direct relationship with the natural world. They could go anywhere in the universe just by imagining it - they wouldn't need warp drive either.
On a sadder note, Stephanie Niznik, the actress who played the minor role of Ensign Kell Perim, the Trill you catch a brief glimpse of in this video, died in 2019 from Chronic Liver Disease due to Alcohol abuse. R.I.P. Stephanie !
I used to think that working economically was akin to "selling out" an artistic vision but over your series I've realized the incredible value of doing things within budget.
The TOS movies wouldn't exist without people working within budgets. Would they have been better without using redressed sets? Not clear, but redressing sets allowed them to be made.
There is another advantage in forcing yourself to work within a budget. If forces you to think creatively on how to make the biggest impact while being as efficient as possible with the resources made available to you.
@@hypotheticalaxolotl That is another good point. Sometimes it's better to hint at things than to simply show the big monster. Leaving things to the audience's imagination can at times be even scarier than what the director can come up with and put on screen.
It’s so strange to me that people don’t love this movie. It’s my very favorite of the TNG movies and I didn’t learn until many years later that it’s not well received by fans. Even hearing and understanding the criticisms it still doesn’t fully make sense to me that people don’t love this movie as much as I do.
I recently watched this movie here on youtube. I really liked it. It's a masterpiece compared to the more recent Star Trek movies. Patrick Stewart is FANTASTIC!
Whether the movies is good or not, the score ALWAYS hits the nail on the head in these flix. Since the beginning of season 3, the music in this franchise has been A++. The movies have only raised the bar higher. Another great job on this one.
The Fountain of Youth being a concern for Patrick Stewart story was great! Thanks for sharing it! 😃
EDIT: I mean, NOT that he was concerned! 😉
The problem with Insurrection is that Picard is the villain but the movie doesn’t know it
My big brother was one of the Baku people! He was the baker! Much love sir!
Another great retrospective! I'll be honest, I enjoyed Insurrection alot better than I did First Contact. The Borg didn't just creep me out in First Contact, they scared the absolute shit out of me (I was only ten years old when I first saw it), and I thought Insurrection did a really great job at showcasing pretty much all of the main characters in a way we hadn't seen since the show ended in 1994 since both Generations and First Contact focused the most on Picard. Sure, Troi and Crusher really didn't have anything to do in this movie, something that's been a problem for these movies in general, but at least Crusher got more screentime than she had in Generations.
"They sought to replicate the success of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home" and they failed miserably.
This one really derailed the TNG films and Nemesis completely finished them off.
You know, now that you've said that... it feels like had the centre of the energy-stealing operation affected some alien equivalent of Blue Whales, this would have worked better. In fact showing _any_ wildlife would have improved everything immensely.
_That's why_ the Baku are so dull. Their culture is said, not shown. It's painted on. Perfectly healed sheep & lions would still be sheep & lions needing to eat to live. They had no culture at all except wanting to stay there, making them look like The Only Reason That the Federation couldn't use what they had, which left the lingering "well why don't t'all arrange a place on the planet for federation members to visit?" It's not like without $ they had a commercial need to sell this back home.
I thought I disliked this film ... until I saw Nemesis. I think its worst crime was that it repeated a plot first explored in the series - only paradoxically taking the opposite conclusion to the same problem for the climax.
Does anyone other than me really wish that Insurrection had gone with the first treatment? That sounds amazing!
Anything would have been an improvement.
I genuinely like "Insurrection." And I think probably THE key difference between people who like this movie and people who don't is the point Rowan hits on about not caring about the Baku. Obviously, NO offense intended to Rowan whatsoever for his stance, as he's approaching this from a narrative analysis perspective rather than a "real world" perspective, so I know his view is not intended as callous in ANY way (and no offense to anyone else really, because I think this is largely a subconscious process for them, despite the possible implications) . . . but for general audiences, I think it boils down to the disconnect between empathetic personality types: some people default to "why should I care about these nobodies, they're boring, what do they have to offer me" versus "they're people, they don't have to be interesting or special or valuable for us care about their plight." And whether or not the do this in real life, it DEFINITELY affects people's enjoyment of fiction.
This is actually part of in-movie narrative, from the standpoint of the Federation ("These people aren't important, we can do what we want") vs Picard ("We don't DECIDE who's important, we do what's RIGHT") and forms the basis of why he's the unambiguous hero of the piece. But it ALSO forms a meta-narrative out of the audience: do you find the Baku disposable, and thus the conflict of the movie doesn't have high stakes? Or do you relate to them simply on the grounds that all living beings are valid, and thus the movie is compelling the full way through?
In this regard, making the Baku bland and dull may not have been a compelling narrative (and thus, financial) choice, and thus clearly contributed to the disappointing returns . . . but I think it turned out to be a truly fascinating (if unintended) SOCIAL commentary on the Star Trek fandom as a whole.
I do feel you've hit it right on the head there. At least that's been MY take on it. While not my fave of the whole film series, I do (mostly enjoy it). Some of the humour falls a bit flat/is a lil cringe in spots, but it still fits the character. :) It's a solid outing that addresses power and its responsibility. As Picard argues: how many, admiral, BEFORE it's wrong? One can also point out that this isn't so terribly long after Journey's End in the series where Picard was ordered to do this very thing and, was going to, so that mission would likely still be very much on his mind and open a bit of a wound for him. Thus setting him even MORE squarely on the side of the Baku. - This far, no further! in a sense.
Sounds like you are doing a little bit of gatekeeping but ok...
The reason I didn't like it is because the Federation isn't really the "Federation" anymore. Everyone is slight just off kilter. Like, the Admiral wants the "fountain of youth," but, seems to ignore the idea that they can just scan the thing for a decade or two, and get the same effect with their technology. There's an infinite amount of supplies you can get from a replicator, so, why not do that? Or look into cellular regeneration, which IS shown to be possible in the universe. The entire federation seems stagnant technology wise, completely incapable of figuring out the effect, and just how to replicate it.
@@Jaydogg222 . . . Uh . . . where do you see "gatekeeping?" 'Cuz I fail to see, at any point, where I called anyone wrong for their opinion of the film, or for not agreeing with my perspective, or made a moral judgment against anyone who didn't like the Baku or the movie, or at any point said anyone who didn't like it "isn't a true fan," or . . . well, really, ANY of the hallmarks of traditional gatekeeping. So . . . kinda confused?
I posited a theory that liking or not liking the movie is very likely tied to caring or not caring about the Baku, and that this might be tied to each individual's (largely subconscious) sense of empathy (whether only in fiction or in real life as well), and could be an interesting social study of the audience, but I quite specifically didn't criticize anyone for falling one way or the other, because it is JUST a theory, and I could be entirely wrong. **shrug**
@@Batman1016 After having watched this part of the retrospective and not agreeing with the makers opinion about the movie, because i do like it quite a bit, i would even go as far and say that your theory is quite right and that Jaydogg here is one of those, that do not empathize with the plight of the Baku or maybe even with people of a similar problem in reality..... but then again i could be wrong and he just said it to get your attention or invalidate your theory "just because". Afterhaving read your inirial commentary i do feel like you're on the right track here. Because i see it like Picard that the Baku don't need to be special or flashy or interesting in any special way to have someone else care about them. They are human beings and this should be enough to care about their plight. And this is probably why i like the movie but i never analysed it any deeper why i do like it. So thank you for your theory, to me it makes sense.
I really enjoy this movie. It's definitely a nice casual movie. The Sona are a great addition to the Star Trek canon
I have a soft spot for Insurerction.
Mostly because it was the first ST movie I saw in the cinema.
I had seen TNG and the TOS movies prior to this and had yet to know of DS9 and VOY. (Latter two were the odd VHS' in the Sci-Fi section of the local rental shop)
Now years later, I am more critical of it, but I still feel is a decent romp to watch.
I actually rate it a bit higher than Generations, personally. (A movie I had seen a couple of years earlier on VHS).
But that's, in part, due to my preference for banthering comedy, rather than drama´, which I feel flowed better in this movie, rather than Generations.
First Contact being my fall back, when I want a Star Trek movie I enjoy, Insurrection is my 2nd alternate, Undiscovered Country, being my 1st alternate.
This is 1 of my favorite of my Star Trek movies. I LOVE IT!
I think it says a lot that Stewart’s concern was the sort shrift given Data/Spiner and not the size or prominence of his role - and that he was unconcerned about the concept of showing himeslf/Picard as old. It’s almost like the anti-Shatner.
Although I greatly dislike the final product
That's typically Stewart's way.
Let me tell you a story...
A mong time ago, when the seasons of ST:tng started to be released in France, he came to Paris to make a junket type interview (around 10 journalists around a table with him). Since some of the journalists were not fluent in English, someone was here to translate the answers... during one of those pause, Stewart got up, took some coffee, and started to go around the table, reserving everyone with coffee as well.
So non-Hollywood attitude, so classy...
I can just see the twinkle in his eye when he said that "darling" line! :-)
@@jean-mi1825 one of the journalists should have pushed the coffee away and said "tea, Earl Grey, hot."
@@masere
Hahaha 👍🏻 👍🏻
@@jean-mi1825 I always assumed he was fluent in french.
The soundtrack to this movie is fire 🔥
I did not know about the additional scenes and the whole 'clutter' theme - you're right in your assessment: that would've made a FAR more interesting and cohesive story for a Star Trek film.
I saw this movie for the first time when I came home from tripping my balls off on magic mushrooms, I was still having some visual effects, although not too severe. What a treat was that. Oh that takes me back to better days, carefree and young...
I like the movie more now than I used to. The main theme is just absolutely beautiful and I cry hearing it.
I have absolutely loved watching every part of this series that you have put together, man. Great work on all spots.
I don’t know how you can like this least of all, with Nemesis hanging out there in all its misery.
I know I'm in the minority but this is my favorite of the TNG era movies (Voyage Home is still my favorite overall.) I just love badass Picard going up against the admiral - that scene where he is inspecting his arsenal of weapons in a leather jacket was for me, so iconic.
I agree that the plot and main story of the movie are basically an "alien of the week" episode of tng, but the character interplay of the main cast makes this better than advertised.
The name "Ba'Ku" translates to Federation English as "Sad Beige".
Excellent series of retrospectives. It says something, that it's made me want to watch the TNG movies again.
The best thing that can be said about Insurrection is that at least it's better than Generations.
Controversial take:
This is the best Trek movie for my money.
Yes I'm serious.
I bloody love it.
We, the readers, will decide whether or not your take is controversial.
I just finished all of your retrospectives in the last three days. This one is current while I'm writing this comment. Thank you so mich for all the work you put into these. It is a huge undertaking. Great material.
Im honestly wondering if the current fan reaction to Insurrection has more to do with how terrible Nemesis was.
It's almost seems like once people saw how bad Nemesis is, the world said "we're sorry. We never should have complained. Please make Nemesis go away. We like Insurrection. We swear. 😰" lol
I have a soft spot for this one. It feels smaller and more personal in scale, giving it a sort of 'feature length episode' vibe to its plot.
De evoluting cultures were already seen in Star Trek, "Up the long Ladder" in season 2 of TNG was one of them. It's concievable that after discovering the marvels of the universe, someone wise decides that they have had enough and settle down in a simple way of life. The ship even had both super advanced scientists as well as simple life orientated people on board and the mission split in two.
It doesn't seem out of place, it's just a possible way of things turning out, especially if given that gift of eternal youth and remember that not all were in accord with one another or there wouldn't have been the schizm between the Bak'u and the Son'a in the first place. The latter kept their technology, solidified a space faring civilization through slavery and alliance with the Dominion and prepared themselves to get through force what the others sacrificed their way of life for, eternal youth. That's a powerful struggle of abnegation vs selfishness.
I don't see what's out of place here. Starfleet was the observer, unaware of the Son'a hidden agenda and origins, thinking that they would get a new miraculous medication for many diseases with peace assured even if it involved displacing "only" 600 people to save millions. The Admiral himself being old, his hubris is also to blame and it blinded him to other possibilities. That just tells us that wisdom is not necessarily correlated with age. Age can also accentuate frustration and hubris in a debilitating manner. Some old people don't age up like good wine but turn to vinager instead, I witnessed it myself.
In this regard, Picard's mutiny is perfectly justified.
That being said, the Bak'u development is a little thin, I'll give you that. Anij's argument to not have learned to swim in 300 years is quite nonsensical to say the least unless she might just be trolling Picard right there like flirting teenagers would.
Also: The Baku knew everything about Warp etc. They just had found the perfect planet for them. That's perhabs the difference to humanity: a. our planet is not perfect and b. when they invented Warp drive, they just came out of the Eugenic Wars and the Third World War! Going to the Stars was therefore a great opportunity. But when you have everything you espire - why go somewhere else. The Baku are a bit like the Amish. They found their "holy lands" and now they cherish them and stay there. Technology would just disturb their peace.
Great retrospective! While this film has never been in my top 5 trek films of all time, I always have fun with it. It felt like a great 2 part episode
Ah yes, I saw a trailer for this in the cinema once and a random person behind us uttered "Star Trek...Worf's Errection" And too this day it still tickles me and the film has always been named that to me.
Another fabulous entry, Rowan. Genuinely cannot wait for every installment. Your retrospective always shine a totally neutral light on things whilst retaining your unmissable passion and enthusiasm for all things Trek. It's not to say you shy away from negative opinion but they are all put in such an elegant, evidenced way which is a far cry from many anti-NuTrek 'fans' today.
Truthfully I'm so looking forward to your eventual dive into NuTrek overall. Sure to ruffle some feathers and I'm here for it.
To be fair, I have always ranked Inserection highly among Star Trek films. I can find something to like in all four TNG films, but this along with First Contact is one of my favorites. Granted, the core concept wasn't ground breaking, but it was a nice ensemble piece with plenty of character, and gave us a good look at them and the Federation in general. I also loved the chemestry between Picard and Anij. Though a part of me ships him and Beverly a lot of the time, I personally thought that Anij made a good match for him, and had my own personal headcanon of him returning to and settling down with her after he retires from Star Fleet. But that's just my crazy happy ending driven imagination for you.
While First Contact is probably the best TNG film, I personally like this film. If I want to relax with a Trek film, this is the one I go to.
Honestly, the Ba'ku might have worked better if they'd fled their homeworld after the Son'a turned up, found the Space Fountain of Youth and some of the Ba'ku got assimilated into a sona, who hate the Ba'ku who left them behind. That way, the Ba'ku associate space with scary life stealing aliens who want to kill them, which then slowly transitions into "where can warp drive take us except into Son'a slave pens". I know this isn't quite what Pillar had in mind, but neither was Insurrections final cut.
Huh. One of my favorites tho. Picard, unlike Kirk, tends to solve problems with empathy. Not tech, not violence; empathy. Either to understand an enemy, or bring out the best from his crew, even if the crew is children stuck in a lift. So that line at the end never bothered me. Picard, traumatized by the Borg, family lost, aging... He's tempted to turn inward. To turn away from the universe. He can understand when she says that line: Where could a starship take us except away from here? That is wise. He can see it, see what these people have and how they live. He's lamented before giving up marriage, children, a home, for the ship. But he doesn't want it personally. Anyway, thanks for another great video review.
These retrospectives are so good. Loved every one of them 👏👏
Really enjoying watching my way through these retrospectives, really well researched and presented with just enough smattering of opinion to give it a personal touch.
Edit: another great factor in these retrospectives is that they are narrated and enunciated well enough that RUclips's auto subtitles are actually accurate so makes them good to watch on the quiet.
I'd agree that insurrection isnt the strongest film, the only scene that really sticks in my memory and wasn't one dominated by F Murray Abraham, was when they were shooting the transporter tags from the drones, so I guess that says a lot about how impactful the film was on the whole.
I watched it with four non trek people, two of who were not even into any sci-fi, and they all loved it.
I really like this film, flaws and all. Great to hear Goldsmith's score got the respect it deserves here, it's a masterpiece, perhaps his 2nd best ST score after TMP.
The single biggest clunk is quite simply that the Baku aren't indigenous to the planet and so to them the Prime Directive does not apply.
as a 14 yo kid, I thought this movie was friggen awesome lol. nowadays I don't like it as much but I still appreciate the good parts and late-version TNG cast, since it was basically the last time they were together in something that wasn't horrible.
I felt a little different; yes, the Baku may be boring, but I felt that the drama wasn't really about them; it was about doing the right thing vs. going along with the Federation.
This is a great video.
The disconnect between Piller’s original vision for this film and the final product is a real shame - I think there was a real potential for a really great Star Trek story. Instead, while the film starts off with some intriguing premises, it falls apart in the middle and the genuinely entertaining sequences involving the Enterprise towards the end aren’t really enough to right the ship, so to speak.
Nemesis is often stated as bringing the TNG era to its end, but in some ways I think it was Insurrection and it’s failure to maintain the momentum established by the success of First Contact that led to a sort of decline in the image of Star Trek in broader pop culture. Even before Nemesis was released, I remember a general atmosphere when it was being advertised that seemed like Star Trek was a bit tired and out of steam.
It is one of my favourite Star Trek films and the one I have watched the most times. For some reason I always found it comforting.
The alien Picard idea and the idea of bringing back Lore would have been better. Personally I think they should have made a movie about the Dominion War.
Those original ideas sound so much better. Instead we got the Luddite Space Elves
Such well researched and presented media like this series have been a major contributor to my growing interest in research and writing. The quality of work you present is genuinely inspiring. Thanks for the hard work you so obviously put into these videos - it doesn't go unnoticed. It's refreshing in contrast with all the top ten lists being pumped out.
It’s also worth remembering that this plot is quite similar to the seventh season episode “journey’s end” where they are asked to remove the Native Americans (federation citizens no less) and do, but decide to help the current residents of a disputed planet this time.
Which is odd, that we have this supposedly morally superior federation that is above material wants, deciding that they need this specific plot of land, instead of using their infinite supplies, and they are going into the "Fountain of Youth." And that is even With technology to effectively remain youthful anyway. I don't think plastic surgery is going to be this big taboo, and remain unresearched since the time of First Contact.
That doesn't even consider the idea of celluar regeneration and cloning.
@@SImrobert2001 Well by this time (as DS9 was on the air) the Federation has been shown to be more nuanced than the utopian vision presented in the TOS.
It's not hard to see some rogue admirals wanting to do something, or even a "needs of the many" argument from the federation as a whole.
I just am amused by the same script getting the different treatment as the episode on tv.
You deserve far more subs then you currently have. Great job!!!!
The part where Stewart is told they didn't want to do a the story because they thought it would upset him is kinda funny because it is one of these US problems they have with youth. They forgot that he is British and he has no issues with it as most of our TV shows and movies are filled with average old people, especially in the 90s. They projected their own issues onto him and almost lost a good story because of it.
These are great, look forward to everyone
Looking forward to your Nemesis video. It had a director that wasn't familiar with Star Trek at all, which lead to the deletion of a lot of really good scenes and the insertion of an early action sequence where Picard blatantly violates the Prime Directive. Wish Frakes had directed the John Logan screenplay.
Good video on a semi-forgotten movie.
The one thing I never understood about ST Insurrection was how non-existent the marketing was for this film. I don’t know how accessible data on movie marketing is but it would be interesting to see that mentioned in your video to get some idea of how hard tge studio was pushing a film or how much they believed in it.
With this film I get the distinct impression that Paramount knew they had a dud before it ever came out.
I remember that there was lots of summertime excitement in the weeks before First Contact came out and everyone I knew had downloaded the trailer and pre-purchased their tickets for First Contact.
With Insurrection I remember being at work on a Tuesday or Wednesday in Dec 98 and discovering that a new Star Trek movie was coming out. It almost felt like the film was just being dumped into theaters. I don’t remember seeing a trailer for the film in a theater or a tv or web ad until the week it came out.
It also felt weird seeing Insurrection released in December, as big space franchise movies just feel like they should be summer blockbuster movies. ST Generations felt like that for me too as I think I saw it around Thanksgiving.
1:59 They already did that in an episode of TNG. Which is a bad sign at the start-- they were making a two-hour TV episode rather than a movie. The only thing missing from _Insurrection_ were the commercial breaks.
That was great! Keep up the awesome work!
Rowan your detailed insights into star trek are always appreciated but when you say the Baku are boring, hinting at why would anyone want to save them, I think that is selling them short. I think that’s not the reason it was not as beloved as some other Next Generation movies, I think the baddies (the rejected Baku) were just a bit too over the top. It could have been a bit more nuanced. I can imagine a people that have almost eternal life becoming quite relaxed in their existence. Which I think was portrayed pretty well.
Another wonderful Retro, Brother! Brings me back a few. Always look forward to your vids.
Always felt this could've been shortened into a decent TNG episode if they cut a bunch of the goofyness.
I remember talking the same idea with a buddy as we were coming out of the theater.
Definitely some annoying and unnecessary baku characters. Ok, all of'em.
Michael Horton was great as Lt. Daniels in this and First Contact.
Did they explain why Geordi's eyes grew 'back' even though he was born blind?
The baku's slow-mo power thing was never used in any practical way?
They Weren't Indigenous To That Planet!!
SOME TIMES THE TREK MUST END AND I CAN SEE NO BETTER PLACE TO END THAN IN PARADISE. IT IS A GREAT THING IF TECHNOLOGY TAKES YOU TO NEW WORLDS BUT IT IS ALSO STRESS INDUCING. A NATURAL BALANCE IS THE BEST, THAT IS WHAT IS FOUND IN THIS MOVIE.
That it? This the last one? Binged watched the whole series. Enjoyed them all. Thanks! You did a wonderful job of this.
Part 14 is out this Sunday.
In regards to technology being so transformative it was for earth after cochran. But Q tells Picard that it’s not about exploring planets and the universe but their minds. The Baku seem to be on there way to understanding and manipulating time in a way Picard and the federation aren’t going to get to with technology.
I loved Insurrection but I found it more like an extended episode instead of a feature length film
Insurrection is a good movie. It's just not "First Contact 2", like a lot of people expected. This has harmed its reputation much more than any actual issues with quality. Taken in isolation as a TNG adventure, it's actually very entertaining and more in line with the feel of TNG series than any of the other TNG movies.
For me, Generations is a jumbled mess that feels like a cross between Search for Spoke and The Motion Picture. First Contact is a great action movie. Insurrection is a good adventure movie. Nemesis was TNG cast shoehorned into DS9-eque story that forget it could build from already well-established Romulan lore from TNG and DS9.
Not Enterprise just yet, I will continue to watch!
The worst part was the purple space bazooka, and the joystick for the enterprise E.
I'm glad you touched on the reversal of the "core ethos" in this film. I never understood how the anti-religion, anti-superstition, anti-dark-ages Picard could suddenly give up space travel, his "home," so quickly.
Honestly I think it's one of the more underrated Star Trek movies personally. I like it more than IV. It's not top tier, I know. But I can't help but enjoy almost everything about the movie.
You pointed out that you could forget Artim's father was in the film, but this guy is a legend. Go and check out a 1980s video and you'll find he was McCormack in Hardcastle and McCormack.
I think this movie was great. I really don't care about your narrative. The sets, script, and story is all fantastic. The acting was wonderful.