The 3600L and the Orotofon 2m Red both have a frequency response of 20hz - 20khz. (some places say the Red goes up to 22Khz) but STILL what an amazing deal the 3600 is and now with an elliptical stylus - its a great way to get the most out of your records on a budget!
Tonar produce an elliptical stylus that fits the AT3600 it's the 1831-DE. I've tried it and it's a massive improvement over the stock stylus. Here in the UK it can be picked up for £15 on a certain auction site ...
After watching your channel, I got a LP-60X about 8 months ago and love it. I did upgrade to the elliptical stylus from LP Gear and it made an improvement on my ancient LP collection, per your recommendation. I really appreciate your channel, it's so much fun! Great informative video as always!
I have been looking at this for a while now, been in my cart for several weeks. I have just been trying to find reviews on it and luckily saw this. I will be ordering today! Thank you so very much.
I made this change (to the LE stylus)on my 1980's vintage turntable. Had the original stylus for a year. Stupid easy change. Made a large difference in the sound. The performance upgrade in depth of the music and detail retrieval was more than expected. Best $35.00 I have spent on audio upgrades. Just do it!
Seemed like a fairly big improvement to my ears. I just got one of these the other day, but haven’t installed it yet. You’ve given me the motivation to do so now! Thanks for reviewing this one!
My upgrade literally arrives later today! LOL I've heard eliptical reduces inner groove distortion; I'd love to hear a comparison of the final track on either side of that record.
Man, what a good recommendation for a stylus, yesterday the needle of my Aiwa PX-E850 was broken, so I was thinking to get a normal white 3600 stylus, but by watching this video, I just can't regret having bought this stylus, thanks bro for making this video, totally reccomended.
I recently upgraded my Ion LP2CD with an elliptical stylus and I can't believe the difference. I am hearing faint drumming in places where I have never before heard.
I upgraded my 3600L to the LP Gear cartridge almost two years ago and even bought one for my son for his AT LP60X. Since then I upgraded my AT LP60XBT to the Fluance RT83 with the Ortofon 2M red. I had better sound with the LP Gear elliptical stylus over the 3600L conical stylus, and less skips on some LPs.
Hurray! This is what I've been waiting for. I got one, recently. It does seem to fill out the sound and give it more presence on my AT-LPGO-BT. This is $38 well spent!
Hello again Record-ology. This is the video us LP60X lovers have been waiting for from you. I've stressed this many times now, but I use an elliptical on my LP60XBT from LP Gear. I also use an acrylic mat on there as well. It's connected to a 20 year old Goodmans Amplifier with 2 speakers and a sub. It really does feel like I'me listening to quite an expensive turntable, even when using it's aptX hi res bluetooth streaming.
A post came up on YT. "What Really Happened to Glen Miller?" I haven't looked at it yet, but I'm going to. I can tell that the 3600 LE is an improvement, especially the percussion. Anyways, have a good weekend.
I have a question,can you do a tracking test to see if it skips when playing bass heavy records such as daft punks homework album from 97 because it has bass heavy kicks that can skip the needle.
I don't have a 3600 surprisingly but agree it's a great cartridge. An elliptical upgrade for that one is very interesting. I have stayed away from elliptical because I always assumed it would just generate even more surface noise and clicks and pops which I can't stand about records.
1 thing i dont like about 3600l is the channel separation.. i usually have 1 to 1.5 db sound difference in left and right channel. i dont know if this problem still exists in the newer production cartridges.. other than that it sounds fantastic..
very good video I agree with you about the 3600l is a good cartridge. had to buy one cause of mistake of cleaning around my turntable not thinking about putting the guard or taking off the head shell and broke my stylus a Ortofon Concodre. the price to replace it is around $100.00 Canadian . Found a 3600lc on line for cheap and was amazed by the sound of it with my phono pre amp , and by seeing a few reviews on line about them. Running a Denon turntable. Might need to key a eye out now for 3600le
My ears are sensitive. The elliptical does sound like it's tracking better and the high frequencies pop out more. Not just that the top end's boosted, but it's got more dynamic range (the difference between high and low volume peaks). I can see why some can't hear a difference. The sound comparison could've been cut right in the middle of high-frequency peaks (like the guitar sections) so you'd hear the difference more clearly in the transition. Also, the differences are subtle on instrumental music AND on the outermost grooves. They wouldn't be on a loud, challenging cut on the innermost grooves. This is the 3600LE's chance to shine: IGD reduction and accurate tracking. If you could find such a tune that won't get you in bed with the Content ID police...you bet it's gonna be THE BEST followup video!
Elliptical upgrades to the 3600L have been available for years, though not through Audio-Technica, but rather a 3rd party offering. That said, I could never attest to their quality, as a rule I tend to shy away from generic brands as I've been burned by them before with low quality diamond tips. So its probably a good thing people can now get a good, solid 1st party elliptical upgrade. Remember folks - beware generic styli that cost a few bucks less. It's worth a few extra dollars to get the REAL THING. They're not all built the same!
I am not noticing very much of a difference I don't know if there is something wrong with my headphones but I actually like the older one the white one better it sounds just slightly better but I could see that the at-3600l would be great for older records maybe even flexi disc. Edit would a needle that deep scratch up or wreck a flexi disc because they are so shallow or a picture disc?
What’s the difference between the LP Gear CFN3600 stylus which they claim to be co-developed with AT, or AT finally decided to sell that under the AT brand?
Some turntables have an adjustable Tracking force others do not… I’m slightly concerned about the heavier tracking force of the 3600 on an elliptical. Must elliptical styli track at 1.5 g whereas the conical 3600 tracks at 3.5 to 4.
So there'll be no issues with the tracking force that the atlp60x series has from the factory? I want to upgrade to this new needle but I'm a bit concerned with possible damage to my records if I can't change the tracking force and turns out to be too much
I'd rather *not* run an elliptical stylus at the 3.5 to 4.0g that are typical for the 3600L, and AT ideed has a similar recommendation (3.0-4.0g) for this new stylus. Except for some rather uncommon DJ cartridges, there have been virtually no elliptical styli with such a high tracking force, and for a good reason. Elliptical styli have a much smaller contact area to the groove than conical ones, which results in much more pressure exerted on the groove. The equivalent tracking force for a conical stylus to apply the same pressure to the groove as a 3.5g ellipticel is over 5g. Just imagine what kind of record wear an AT3600L tracking at 5g will cause. Apart from that, you *can* of course design an elliptical stylus for higher tracking forces. You just have to make the suspension stiffer. But that's not good practice. And you can't just reduce the tracking force on the ATN3600LE to mitigate the problem. The stiff suspension will lead to the stylus bouncing around in the groove, leading to even more damage for your records. Too bad AT didn't release an elliptical stylus for the AT91, which is essentially the same as the AT3600(L), but designed for a much smaller tracking force (around 2.0g). That would have made much more sense. BTW: The correct VTA for all stylus shapes is the same. Don't confuse VTA (vertical tracking angle) with tracking force.
confused ???????? you said that 78's are mono ,my father had 78's that were stereo he had the console type system with the bsr player ceramic cart had the flip over stylus and my fathers 78's said stereo sound on all of them I even have a few 78''s they all say stereo the only mono record I have is a beatles album 12 inch 33 rpm ,I even put a 3600l cart on a gatrrad TT that had a ceramic cart i used the 3600l even bought the 78 stylus for it it sounds fine with no hiss can you explain what you meant confused ???? JRo
Got mine last month as an upgrade for my Audio Technica SoundBurger. Definitely an upgrade, noticeable sound improvement! Played A few records recently= Works Awesome! Keep up the good content Recordology! I'm not a big commenter, long time sub though. Couldn't resist A comment this time. For around $30 its money well spent.
I didn't hear any difference. Now I've owned elliptical and conical and conical has good sound but what it does do is produce less cracks and pops. Now elliptical will produce more cracks and pops
I have to beg to differ about your statement regarding playing 78's with a mono cartridge, for several reasons. (1) A true mono cartridge, depending on its design, my have almost no vertical compliance - that is, the stylus won't move up and down at all. This can be very hard on records. (2) While it is usually best when playing a mono record with a stereo cartridge to mix the channels together equally, sometimes a mono recording will sound better on one side of the groove than the other side, due to mistracking or uneven wear from previous playbacks. In these cases, a stereo cartridge lets you choose the channel that sounds better, and mute the more distorted channel. (3) Some mono records are recorded vertically instead of laterally, such as Edison discs, and many older transcription discs. These records CANNOT be played with a modern mono cartridge, but they can be played with a stereo cartridge by either playing just one channel, or, more optimally, inverting the phase of one channel and then mixing them together equally.
For your first point… I agree completely and that’s exactly what I described in the video. Your second point is fair enough… The biggest issue is the vertical compliance which adds unnecessary noise potential to the signal. Your third point is also correct… Hill and Dale modulation does exist, but it is rare (for my audience) and that is why I did not mention it. Diamond discs,Pathe discs, and of course, cylinder records are vertically modulated.
The angle of the cartridge is way off, this means that the softer cantilever of the new 3600LE will bend overtime and the needle will wear out more on one side. It also can damage the inside groove wall because there is too much pressure on one side. There is a reason like this I avoid turntables like this AT with a fixed headshell. The difference between both is not that huge to my ears, the benefit of the conical is that on older records the wear is less notabele wich is a good thing, specially on 45's. As an ex-DJ I prefer a conical stylus because of that one and only thing.
The 3600L and the Orotofon 2m Red both have a frequency response of 20hz - 20khz. (some places say the Red goes up to 22Khz) but STILL what an amazing deal the 3600 is and now with an elliptical stylus - its a great way to get the most out of your records on a budget!
Tonar produce an elliptical stylus that fits the AT3600 it's the 1831-DE. I've tried it and it's a massive improvement over the stock stylus. Here in the UK it can be picked up for £15 on a certain auction site ...
It's a great upgrade, got one for my Soundburger, and it really makes quite a difference, and it was not that expensive either.
After watching your channel, I got a LP-60X about 8 months ago and love it. I did upgrade to the elliptical stylus from LP Gear and it made an improvement on my ancient LP collection, per your recommendation. I really appreciate your channel, it's so much fun! Great informative video as always!
Thank you! :)
I have been looking at this for a while now, been in my cart for several weeks. I have just been trying to find reviews on it and luckily saw this. I will be ordering today! Thank you so very much.
I made this change (to the LE stylus)on my 1980's vintage turntable. Had the original stylus for a year. Stupid easy change. Made a large difference in the sound. The performance upgrade in depth of the music and detail retrieval was more than expected. Best $35.00 I have spent on audio upgrades. Just do it!
I should consider this upgrade at some point! Thank you and great video as always!
Thank you!
Seemed like a fairly big improvement to my ears. I just got one of these the other day, but haven’t installed it yet. You’ve given me the motivation to do so now! Thanks for reviewing this one!
Years ago there was an elliptical Stylus for the 3600 cartridge made by Lp Gear. I don't know if it's still in production.
This is a very welcome upgrade. I hope it lives up to expectations.
My upgrade literally arrives later today! LOL
I've heard eliptical reduces inner groove distortion; I'd love to hear a comparison of the final track on either side of that record.
You heard correctly!
I have made this upgrade some time ago but with a elliptical LP Gear stylus. Great results. Maybe I will buy this one to compare.
I wondered what difference the stylus style made and this was very educational!
Man, what a good recommendation for a stylus, yesterday the needle of my Aiwa PX-E850 was broken, so I was thinking to get a normal white 3600 stylus, but by watching this video, I just can't regret having bought this stylus, thanks bro for making this video, totally reccomended.
I recently upgraded my Ion LP2CD with an elliptical stylus and I can't believe the difference. I am hearing faint drumming in places where I have never before heard.
I upgraded my 3600L to the LP Gear cartridge almost two years ago and even bought one for my son for his AT LP60X. Since then I upgraded my AT LP60XBT to the Fluance RT83 with the Ortofon 2M red. I had better sound with the LP Gear elliptical stylus over the 3600L conical stylus, and less skips on some LPs.
Thank you so very much!! Awesome share 👏 getting the newest one soon.
You're very welcome!
Hurray! This is what I've been waiting for. I got one, recently. It does seem to fill out the sound and give it more presence on my AT-LPGO-BT. This is $38 well spent!
Agreed! :)
Put one on my Sound Burger. The 3600LE punches well above it's price point. The 3600L(C) was already doing a good job.
Hello again Record-ology. This is the video us LP60X lovers have been waiting for from you. I've stressed this many times now, but I use an elliptical on my LP60XBT from LP Gear. I also use an acrylic mat on there as well. It's connected to a 20 year old Goodmans Amplifier with 2 speakers and a sub. It really does feel like I'me listening to quite an expensive turntable, even when using it's aptX hi res bluetooth streaming.
Great price/quality balance. I got one recently. Sounds as way more expensive cartridges.
A post came up on YT. "What Really Happened to Glen Miller?" I haven't looked at it yet, but I'm going to. I can tell that the 3600 LE is an improvement, especially the percussion. Anyways, have a good weekend.
About time too!
I have a question,can you do a tracking test to see if it skips when playing bass heavy records such as daft punks homework album from 97 because it has bass heavy kicks that can skip the needle.
Guilty, I have a Sony with that cart. Gathering dust these days but when I start digitizing records again it will get use.
I don't have a 3600 surprisingly but agree it's a great cartridge. An elliptical upgrade for that one is very interesting. I have stayed away from elliptical because I always assumed it would just generate even more surface noise and clicks and pops which I can't stand about records.
Its a fair assesment.....
This stylus will be my next when my original on my backup turntable needs to be replaced. 😎
Audio Technica should make a stylus to play records from Steve Martin & George Carlin.
They could call it the "Comical" stylus.
lol
How about the rigid body upgrade for the 3600 ?
1 thing i dont like about 3600l is the channel separation.. i usually have 1 to 1.5 db sound difference in left and right channel. i dont know if this problem still exists in the newer production cartridges.. other than that it sounds fantastic..
very good video I agree with you about the 3600l is a good cartridge.
had to buy one cause of mistake of cleaning around my turntable not thinking about putting the guard or taking off the head shell and broke my stylus a Ortofon Concodre.
the price to replace it is around $100.00 Canadian .
Found a 3600lc on line for cheap and was amazed by the sound of it with my phono pre amp , and by seeing a few reviews on line about them.
Running a Denon turntable.
Might need to key a eye out now for 3600le
My ears are sensitive. The elliptical does sound like it's tracking better and the high frequencies pop out more. Not just that the top end's boosted, but it's got more dynamic range (the difference between high and low volume peaks).
I can see why some can't hear a difference. The sound comparison could've been cut right in the middle of high-frequency peaks (like the guitar sections) so you'd hear the difference more clearly in the transition.
Also, the differences are subtle on instrumental music AND on the outermost grooves. They wouldn't be on a loud, challenging cut on the innermost grooves. This is the 3600LE's chance to shine: IGD reduction and accurate tracking. If you could find such a tune that won't get you in bed with the Content ID police...you bet it's gonna be THE BEST followup video!
where did you order it from
Amazon
I was just thinking. Might make a good Soundburger upgrade also. :O
Elliptical upgrades to the 3600L have been available for years, though not through Audio-Technica, but rather a 3rd party offering. That said, I could never attest to their quality, as a rule I tend to shy away from generic brands as I've been burned by them before with low quality diamond tips. So its probably a good thing people can now get a good, solid 1st party elliptical upgrade. Remember folks - beware generic styli that cost a few bucks less. It's worth a few extra dollars to get the REAL THING. They're not all built the same!
People have reported skipping issues with the at lp 70. Are you experiencing the same issues or is yours still working fine?
You know......sometimes! Ive noticed it one or two times literally.
I assume these will fit the Crosley's that use the atn3600. I have like 4 of the Beatles ones.
That turntable is preset at 3.5 grams tracking force! I don't think you should play an elliptical at that weight!!
I truly wonder about this as well
I am not noticing very much of a difference I don't know if there is something wrong with my headphones but I actually like the older one the white one better it sounds just slightly better but I could see that the at-3600l would be great for older records maybe even flexi disc. Edit would a needle that deep scratch up or wreck a flexi disc because they are so shallow or a picture disc?
What’s the difference between the LP Gear CFN3600 stylus which they claim to be co-developed with AT, or AT finally decided to sell that under the AT brand?
Not gonna lie, I have a Ortofon 2M Red and I was a bit crestfallen to find out it has the same frequency response as the 3600L, lol!
Is the trackingforce the same?
Yes. Easy drop in replacement.
Some turntables have an adjustable Tracking force others do not… I’m slightly concerned about the heavier tracking force of the 3600 on an elliptical. Must elliptical styli track at 1.5 g whereas the conical 3600 tracks at 3.5 to 4.
So there'll be no issues with the tracking force that the atlp60x series has from the factory? I want to upgrade to this new needle but I'm a bit concerned with possible damage to my records if I can't change the tracking force and turns out to be too much
Also, great video as always!
No. Audio technica made it as an upgrade for your turntable model 😊
That is correct - thank you!
The only shocking thing about that was it sounded no different whatsoever! 😂
This isn't new. An elliptical stylus has been available for the 3600 for some time now.
Though, admittedly, it was from Pfanstiehl.
I'd rather *not* run an elliptical stylus at the 3.5 to 4.0g that are typical for the 3600L, and AT ideed has a similar recommendation (3.0-4.0g) for this new stylus.
Except for some rather uncommon DJ cartridges, there have been virtually no elliptical styli with such a high tracking force, and for a good reason. Elliptical styli have a much smaller contact area to the groove than conical ones, which results in much more pressure exerted on the groove. The equivalent tracking force for a conical stylus to apply the same pressure to the groove as a 3.5g ellipticel is over 5g. Just imagine what kind of record wear an AT3600L tracking at 5g will cause.
Apart from that, you *can* of course design an elliptical stylus for higher tracking forces. You just have to make the suspension stiffer. But that's not good practice.
And you can't just reduce the tracking force on the ATN3600LE to mitigate the problem. The stiff suspension will lead to the stylus bouncing around in the groove, leading to even more damage for your records.
Too bad AT didn't release an elliptical stylus for the AT91, which is essentially the same as the AT3600(L), but designed for a much smaller tracking force (around 2.0g). That would have made much more sense.
BTW: The correct VTA for all stylus shapes is the same. Don't confuse VTA (vertical tracking angle) with tracking force.
nice 😊👏👏
I don’t hear any difference. Sorry.
it is VERY subtle.
confused ???????? you said that 78's are mono ,my father had 78's that were stereo he had the console type system with the bsr player ceramic cart had the flip over stylus and my fathers 78's said stereo sound on all of them I even have a few 78''s they all say stereo the only mono record I have is a beatles album 12 inch 33 rpm ,I even put a 3600l cart on a gatrrad TT that had a ceramic cart i used the 3600l even bought the 78 stylus for it it sounds fine with no hiss can you explain what you meant confused ???? JRo
Stereo 78 RPM records are exceedingly rare… Most of them were made long before stereophonic sound was introduced in the late 1950s
Got mine last month as an upgrade for my Audio Technica SoundBurger. Definitely an upgrade, noticeable sound improvement! Played A few records recently= Works Awesome! Keep up the good content Recordology! I'm not a big commenter, long time sub though. Couldn't resist A comment this time. For around $30 its money well spent.
Great to hear!
Definitely won’t get a copyright strike 😂
I didn't hear any difference. Now I've owned elliptical and conical and conical has good sound but what it does do is produce less cracks and pops. Now elliptical will produce more cracks and pops
I have to beg to differ about your statement regarding playing 78's with a mono cartridge, for several reasons.
(1) A true mono cartridge, depending on its design, my have almost no vertical compliance - that is, the stylus won't move up and down at all. This can be very hard on records.
(2) While it is usually best when playing a mono record with a stereo cartridge to mix the channels together equally, sometimes a mono recording will sound better on one side of the groove than the other side, due to mistracking or uneven wear from previous playbacks. In these cases, a stereo cartridge lets you choose the channel that sounds better, and mute the more distorted channel.
(3) Some mono records are recorded vertically instead of laterally, such as Edison discs, and many older transcription discs. These records CANNOT be played with a modern mono cartridge, but they can be played with a stereo cartridge by either playing just one channel, or, more optimally, inverting the phase of one channel and then mixing them together equally.
For your first point… I agree completely and that’s exactly what I described in the video. Your second point is fair enough… The biggest issue is the vertical compliance which adds unnecessary noise potential to the signal. Your third point is also correct… Hill and Dale modulation does exist, but it is rare (for my audience) and that is why I did not mention it. Diamond discs,Pathe discs, and of course, cylinder records are vertically modulated.
First!
The angle of the cartridge is way off, this means that the softer cantilever of the new 3600LE will bend overtime and the needle will wear out more on one side.
It also can damage the inside groove wall because there is too much pressure on one side.
There is a reason like this I avoid turntables like this AT with a fixed headshell.
The difference between both is not that huge to my ears, the benefit of the conical is that on older records the wear is less notabele wich is a good thing, specially on 45's.
As an ex-DJ I prefer a conical stylus because of that one and only thing.