Connor, I was on the CLA's equipment review committee when this was put into place. The one thing you didn't mention is the main reason for their implementation. These masks have CSA (Canadian Standards Association) certification, the old ones didn't. Players are required to wear a hockey helmet which is CSA certified, and either a hockey/lacrosse cage which is as well. Field lacrosse helmets w/ NOCSAE approval are allowed as well. This is the main reason for the change, insurance.
If you're referring to Chuck Miller (who is the head and runs it), I am not aware of any ties he has with equip manufacturers. If you mean Terry Rowland who USED to own a company with STX, he wasn't even on the committee when the rule was passed. Stew Begg a retired police oficer. Ron McSpadyen works for OLA, Brent McCauley for Wajax. No, nobody anticipated the flaw/dangers, you are right there, it's very unfortunate.
Thank you for your objective and rational perspective, Connor. But, CSA is Canadian Standards Association, they approve SO many pieces of equipment, not just sporting goods (in fact that's a small fraction) but numerous other household and work items. That is again why NOCSAE field lacrosse helmets are allowed, it meets a approval of a regulatory body. People need to just realize how much the CLA guys do for the game, and they at least deserve respect for that.
the problem is the new facemask/ chin strap does make you feel the impact on your jaw, and it can easily ride up your face and knock teeth out of even break your nose
It would be addenda because it comes from the perfect passive participle addendum which would be conjugated addenda in the plural nominative because it takes a neuter-esque form.
I'm a Reff and a player and it bugs me being a player wearing this helmet because even in Junior(A,B) and Senior(A,B) you still have to wear these helmets because some of the Senior players play in the NLL and the change can affect vision and feel of the helmet. And as a reff its annoying having to check if every players cage is legal to wear. overall, THE CLA SHOULD CHANGE THE CAGE!
if it had hard plastic on the bottom and foam on the top when your helmet jars up youre gonna get it in the nose. They should have just left the straight cage and designed a better chin strap. The nose angle could be improved on the straight cage so you can put it closer. I play with my straight cage only a centimeter or two from my nose for better vision by preference.
As a young kid growing up, you play with a hockey helmet and cage, as you got older some kids switched to field buckets and some switched to the face mask that was curved, now which junior lacrosse players have to wear. I've now played a full season of box lacrosse with the new rule, the face masks are obviously annoying with the chin and I can say getting hit hurts the chin alittle . That's why I went out bought a hard cap UA chin and made my chin a floater but still through the cage,
No, CLA is not technically required to use CSA certified gear, but again, it was voted to do so by the Board of all MA's to reduce risk of insurance liability. People need to understand that, rather than make accusations of corruption behind closed doors, that's what is bothering me most. The old ones did NOT have CSA certification. Field lacrosse helmets w/NOCSAE are still legal. Why? They've met a regulatory body standard.... though nobody is suggesting to run out and drop $250 on one.
i’m in my major bantam year rn the year before i worn it throughout the ola/cla season i haven’t been call but for provincials i had changed it just in case i got called (i had 36 goals during the season)
You can't use a field helmet in box, it dosn't have enough visibility, I know kids who use field helmets in box, and they always seem to get freight-trained.... The box cage allows more visibility out the side of the helmet, making it better for the close quarters lacrosse.
The CLA has decided to mandate that masks either be: A) CSA approved hockey helmet with CSA approved cage (hockey cage, or lacrosse cage) B) NOCSAE approved field lacrosse helmet. Think about minor hockey, it would be unheard of for Hockey Canada to allow its associations to permit use of a hockey helmets/cages which were not CSA certified.
2) injuries will occur more. I have used both style cages and the new ones do create a larger issue for injury. And 3) it is iinconvenient to buy a new $60+ mask just because of the rules.
you're missing the point. The main motivation was CSA certification, which means tested standards by a regulatory agency. Goal was to be both safer, and be less liable from an insurance pov. Can you imagine ice hockey allowing its minor hockey members to use non-CSA approved gear? It would be unheard of. CSA also approves so many household items. You have to realize how much red tape there is when it comes to governance like this. CSA deserves more blame than CLA if there was lack of testing
Not entirely sure, I'm out of the loop now, so I'm not speaking on their behalf..... I'm just defending against some of the ridiculous allegations, and giving perspective. It is a very tough job, and as apparent, a thankless one. They recently came out with another update though, and mentioned they are looking into it with manufacturers, and considering the law and government policies. Unfortunately, that red tape takes a lot, lot, lot of time, there's no quick solution.
but what I don't get (when u bring up the field lacrosse helmets) that those are still legal, those do not curve under the chin, and are still NOCSAE approved.
This new face mask is a pain and a terrible idea. I'm a referee and a player and I disagree with this rule. 1. It forces everyone to buy a new mask when some players don't have the availability or want to spend $60. 2. More neck and head injuries due to the exposed neck and attached chin. 3. I've still seen these new masked helmets pop off in game.
The refs have looked at my helmet and they said no problems are with it and they let me play, the chin cup is securely to my chin and now when I have gotten hit my chin doesn't absorb impact, as well drake , field buckets are allowed but their a use at your own risk, and this rule strictly applies to junior lacrosse players ages 16/17-21
Also, some more points, to my knowledge, the head of the committee has no ties to equipment manufactures. I was in the room for the meetings, and nothing was mentioned. You might want to check this release out to see how much work they've actually put into this as the main reason, and it's not due to money changing hands as you implied. cla. pointstreaksites. com/view/cla/administration-2/news/news_72897
The various associations will always opt for safety especially for the kids. But Let's face it.. when you're playing at a higher level, like Canadian Jr A, you should be able to wear pretty much Whatever you want. in fact the guys used to wear the old style NHL goalie cage with nothing protecting the chin. Anyway good vid as always.
If lacrosse players can take one look at the cages and determine the faults and failures of the design, the men in charge of making them mandatory should be able to. Ive been involved in CSA hockey mask testing and its well designed for the sport of hockey. However the fact these passed CSA testing shows that what ever tests were used were poorly designed. Is the CLA mandated to use CSA cert? By whom? and why all of a sudden(assuming the old ones weren't, if they were what changed)?
So are you involved with STX/OTNY or Gait as well? or is that just the two heads of the committee? Pretty easy to see the actual motivation behind this move as well as the move behind forcing EVERY minor organization to switch every net they use to a flat bar design. Oh and you want your goalie equipment approved? that will be 300K please, oh dont worry we will be switching up the measurement rules every two years so you have the opportunity to make that back. wheres the money go?
curved under the chin is part of the recommendation for sure, but having NOCSAE approval is the bigger reason. If someone gets hurt using a mask that is CSA or NOCSAE approved, the CLA can say they did their job by mandating players use gear which meets safety standards by regulatory bodies, thus, they're less liable for legal action. They cannot just go back to the old cages, insurance wise, since those are not CSA certified. It's unfortunately not that simple.
Its not very unfortunate. Its negligence and the members of the committee who allowed this to happen should be held responsible for the injuries caused by their incompetence. You cannot dictate to someone what safety gear they must wear then just shake responsibility when said safety gear fails to protect them. The only unfortunate is that the people who made these decisions wont face any discipline.
How are the new nets safer? how do the reduce the risk of injury? They are pointed at the corners unlike most nets used in rinks which have rounded corners. The bottom plate has sharp exposed ends where the netting is tied down. In what way do you justify forcing teams, associations, and towns into spending tens of thousands of dollars for new nets ($1500 per net).
I was just at a Sr B game the other day, they're still using the same facemasks as the ones from previous years (ones that don't curve under, like Gait pro, UA, etc), and the refs didn't care. I think the only time they enforce is with minors (but tht rule has been in place for a few years now)
So you don't know that members of that committee are also employed by lacrosse equipment manufacturers? Yet you claim to have sat in the meetings? SO let me ask you this, did you not foresee the obvious design flaws in both the masks and the testing done by the CSA and how poorly they fit the game of lacrosse? Or did you knowingly endanger your members? Money aside that is a question that the members of that committee MUST answer.
I compltely agree with this. I use a 4 point in my box helmet and I am personally fine but the new cages are outrageous in my opinion. 1) they are ugly
Nice accusation, real classy (the answer is no, btw). Just so you know in terms of nets, that again was an insurance reason. Look at minor hockey, would they ever allow the use of non CSA approved helmets/cages? Or nets that were welded in a garage? Absolutely not. Insurance was the primary reason for the change, believe me, I was on the committee and in the meetings, you're just slinging mud with slanderous acquisitions without knowing what you're talking about.
You go anywhere in Canada and ask what the popular opinion is and you'll find corruption in the top 3. Its far to obvious whether it bothers you or not. The intentions may have been to reduce liability but they've caused injuries that before happened but were few and far between. Common sense seems to be lacking at most upper levels of this sports governing bodies, and the evidence is pouring in with every game played. Broken Jaws and changed lives and you will walk away scot free.
To be honest it's nothing to do with protection it's to do with insurance they don't wanna get sued its too big of a issue it's just precautionary just saying
USA is actually very good at lacrosse, and have won many world championships I think they have won more championships then any other country Canada is the next best with next most championships, most of the finals have been between Canada and the USA.
This is gay I play box in Canada and everyone is completely fine with the new cage it's not a whole lot different then the old one and this idea is retarted
LAS & Connor Wilson help explain The Great Canadian Box Lacrosse Face Mask Controversy... great insight, We'd be lost without you con!
Connor, I was on the CLA's equipment review committee when this was put into place. The one thing you didn't mention is the main reason for their implementation. These masks have CSA (Canadian Standards Association) certification, the old ones didn't. Players are required to wear a hockey helmet which is CSA certified, and either a hockey/lacrosse cage which is as well. Field lacrosse helmets w/ NOCSAE approval are allowed as well. This is the main reason for the change, insurance.
If you're referring to Chuck Miller (who is the head and runs it), I am not aware of any ties he has with equip manufacturers. If you mean Terry Rowland who USED to own a company with STX, he wasn't even on the committee when the rule was passed. Stew Begg a retired police oficer. Ron McSpadyen works for OLA, Brent McCauley for Wajax.
No, nobody anticipated the flaw/dangers, you are right there, it's very unfortunate.
Thank you for your objective and rational perspective, Connor. But, CSA is Canadian Standards Association, they approve SO many pieces of equipment, not just sporting goods (in fact that's a small fraction) but numerous other household and work items.
That is again why NOCSAE field lacrosse helmets are allowed, it meets a approval of a regulatory body.
People need to just realize how much the CLA guys do for the game, and they at least deserve respect for that.
the problem is the new facemask/ chin strap does make you feel the impact on your jaw, and it can easily ride up your face and knock teeth out of even break your nose
It would be addenda because it comes from the perfect passive participle addendum which would be conjugated addenda in the plural nominative because it takes a neuter-esque form.
I'm a Reff and a player and it bugs me being a player wearing this helmet because even in Junior(A,B) and Senior(A,B) you still have to wear these helmets because some of the Senior players play in the NLL and the change can affect vision and feel of the helmet. And as a reff its annoying having to check if every players cage is legal to wear. overall, THE CLA SHOULD CHANGE THE CAGE!
if it had hard plastic on the bottom and foam on the top when your helmet jars up youre gonna get it in the nose. They should have just left the straight cage and designed a better chin strap. The nose angle could be improved on the straight cage so you can put it closer. I play with my straight cage only a centimeter or two from my nose for better vision by preference.
Nice work Connor! We read LAS everyday
As a young kid growing up, you play with a hockey helmet and cage, as you got older some kids switched to field buckets and some switched to the face mask that was curved, now which junior lacrosse players have to wear. I've now played a full season of box lacrosse with the new rule, the face masks are obviously annoying with the chin and I can say getting hit hurts the chin alittle . That's why I went out bought a hard cap UA chin and made my chin a floater but still through the cage,
No, CLA is not technically required to use CSA certified gear, but again, it was voted to do so by the Board of all MA's to reduce risk of insurance liability. People need to understand that, rather than make accusations of corruption behind closed doors, that's what is bothering me most.
The old ones did NOT have CSA certification.
Field lacrosse helmets w/NOCSAE are still legal. Why? They've met a regulatory body standard.... though nobody is suggesting to run out and drop $250 on one.
Vintage Junior "A" lacrosse 1988
Amazing how much faster it is nowadays.
Honestly now In 2018 I think the mask problem has been defiantly solved , I love my Under armour face mask , completely safe looks great and reliable.
i’m in my major bantam year rn the year before i worn it throughout the ola/cla season i haven’t been call but for provincials i had changed it just in case i got called (i had 36 goals during the season)
You can't use a field helmet in box, it dosn't have enough visibility, I know kids who use field helmets in box, and they always seem to get freight-trained.... The box cage allows more visibility out the side of the helmet, making it better for the close quarters lacrosse.
that cage is ultra ridiculious....i laughed my ass off when you pulled that out.
Don't knock it til ya try it. Or something like that.
I've waited 12 years to use a pro 20/20 and as soon as I get to junior their illegal...
The CLA has decided to mandate that masks either be:
A) CSA approved hockey helmet with CSA approved cage (hockey cage, or lacrosse cage)
B) NOCSAE approved field lacrosse helmet.
Think about minor hockey, it would be unheard of for Hockey Canada to allow its associations to permit use of a hockey helmets/cages which were not CSA certified.
2) injuries will occur more. I have used both style cages and the new ones do create a larger issue for injury. And 3) it is iinconvenient to buy a new $60+ mask just because of the rules.
you're missing the point. The main motivation was CSA certification, which means tested standards by a regulatory agency. Goal was to be both safer, and be less liable from an insurance pov. Can you imagine ice hockey allowing its minor hockey members to use non-CSA approved gear? It would be unheard of. CSA also approves so many household items. You have to realize how much red tape there is when it comes to governance like this. CSA deserves more blame than CLA if there was lack of testing
Not entirely sure, I'm out of the loop now, so I'm not speaking on their behalf..... I'm just defending against some of the ridiculous allegations, and giving perspective. It is a very tough job, and as apparent, a thankless one.
They recently came out with another update though, and mentioned they are looking into it with manufacturers, and considering the law and government policies. Unfortunately, that red tape takes a lot, lot, lot of time, there's no quick solution.
but what I don't get (when u bring up the field lacrosse helmets) that those are still legal, those do not curve under the chin, and are still NOCSAE approved.
@goldensnitch23 we don't wear field helmets cause of the sun visor it stops from the view of the ball and just looks stupid
This new face mask is a pain and a terrible idea. I'm a referee and a player and I disagree with this rule. 1. It forces everyone to buy a new mask when some players don't have the availability or want to spend $60. 2. More neck and head injuries due to the exposed neck and attached chin. 3. I've still seen these new masked helmets pop off in game.
The refs have looked at my helmet and they said no problems are with it and they let me play, the chin cup is securely to my chin and now when I have gotten hit my chin doesn't absorb impact, as well drake , field buckets are allowed but their a use at your own risk, and this rule strictly applies to junior lacrosse players ages 16/17-21
you play Sr's?
Also, some more points, to my knowledge, the head of the committee has no ties to equipment manufactures. I was in the room for the meetings, and nothing was mentioned. You might want to check this release out to see how much work they've actually put into this as the main reason, and it's not due to money changing hands as you implied.
cla. pointstreaksites. com/view/cla/administration-2/news/news_72897
The various associations will always opt for safety especially for the kids. But Let's face it.. when you're playing at a higher level, like Canadian Jr A, you should be able to wear pretty much Whatever you want. in fact the guys used to wear the old style NHL goalie cage with nothing protecting the chin. Anyway good vid as always.
If lacrosse players can take one look at the cages and determine the faults and failures of the design, the men in charge of making them mandatory should be able to. Ive been involved in CSA hockey mask testing and its well designed for the sport of hockey. However the fact these passed CSA testing shows that what ever tests were used were poorly designed. Is the CLA mandated to use CSA cert? By whom? and why all of a sudden(assuming the old ones weren't, if they were what changed)?
So are you involved with STX/OTNY or Gait as well? or is that just the two heads of the committee? Pretty easy to see the actual motivation behind this move as well as the move behind forcing EVERY minor organization to switch every net they use to a flat bar design. Oh and you want your goalie equipment approved? that will be 300K please, oh dont worry we will be switching up the measurement rules every two years so you have the opportunity to make that back. wheres the money go?
curved under the chin is part of the recommendation for sure, but having NOCSAE approval is the bigger reason. If someone gets hurt using a mask that is CSA or NOCSAE approved, the CLA can say they did their job by mandating players use gear which meets safety standards by regulatory bodies, thus, they're less liable for legal action.
They cannot just go back to the old cages, insurance wise, since those are not CSA certified. It's unfortunately not that simple.
Its not very unfortunate. Its negligence and the members of the committee who allowed this to happen should be held responsible for the injuries caused by their incompetence. You cannot dictate to someone what safety gear they must wear then just shake responsibility when said safety gear fails to protect them. The only unfortunate is that the people who made these decisions wont face any discipline.
I play hockey and those cages aren't that bad. But I just loosen the straps so its not tight to my chin.
Good idea but it looks funky
so basically the CSA and NOCSAE make the CLA's helmet/facemask rules? not the league itself?
funny cause marty oneil is one of my dads best friends hes from victoria british coloumbia!! his grand parents live ony my street
ok I wrote this too soon!
How are the new nets safer? how do the reduce the risk of injury? They are pointed at the corners unlike most nets used in rinks which have rounded corners. The bottom plate has sharp exposed ends where the netting is tied down. In what way do you justify forcing teams, associations, and towns into spending tens of thousands of dollars for new nets ($1500 per net).
I was just at a Sr B game the other day, they're still using the same facemasks as the ones from previous years (ones that don't curve under, like Gait pro, UA, etc), and the refs didn't care. I think the only time they enforce is with minors (but tht rule has been in place for a few years now)
So you don't know that members of that committee are also employed by lacrosse equipment manufacturers? Yet you claim to have sat in the meetings? SO let me ask you this, did you not foresee the obvious design flaws in both the masks and the testing done by the CSA and how poorly they fit the game of lacrosse? Or did you knowingly endanger your members? Money aside that is a question that the members of that committee MUST answer.
AS A HOCKEY REF POINT OF VIEW ... I THINK IT'S NOT BAD .. BUD INSTED OF PUTING FOAM ON THE CAGE I WOULD PUT MORE CAGE BUT ON A Angle ???
huh?
that is actually not a bad idea
addenda/addendum... of course a lax bro like connor wilson knows his latin
Why don't they just use field lacrosse helmets. Why would someone use a hockey helmet for lacrosse, hockey helmets where meant for hockey no lacrosse.
I compltely agree with this. I use a 4 point in my box helmet and I am personally fine but the new cages are outrageous in my opinion. 1) they are ugly
I just use a field
Can you see your feet when you have that bottom part there?
you can make it see-through dee dee deeeeee
when you are 6-14 you have to wear that face mask
Nice accusation, real classy (the answer is no, btw). Just so you know in terms of nets, that again was an insurance reason. Look at minor hockey, would they ever allow the use of non CSA approved helmets/cages? Or nets that were welded in a garage? Absolutely not. Insurance was the primary reason for the change, believe me, I was on the committee and in the meetings, you're just slinging mud with slanderous acquisitions without knowing what you're talking about.
Ive never had complications with kids being hit in the face while wearing there mask. Its been a clean gams no matter what mask has been worn
You go anywhere in Canada and ask what the popular opinion is and you'll find corruption in the top 3. Its far to obvious whether it bothers you or not. The intentions may have been to reduce liability but they've caused injuries that before happened but were few and far between. Common sense seems to be lacking at most upper levels of this sports governing bodies, and the evidence is pouring in with every game played. Broken Jaws and changed lives and you will walk away scot free.
Easy solution. Dump off the box helmets and wear cascade field lacrosse helmets
We all already bought the new ones and they're 60 dollars so if they go back who's going to pay for them cause we aren't !!
To be honest it's nothing to do with protection it's to do with insurance they don't wanna get sued its too big of a issue it's just precautionary just saying
why is it any different than the NHL?
lol... poor petr.. @ 1:50
The new masks are terrible my friend split his Chen form a slash
why don't they just wear normal lacrosse helmets someone please tell me i don't understand
the visor and it is easier to look down with a hockey helmet that a box helmet
Darius Ruckers i meant field
where i said box
Fuckin purge trailor
USA is actually very good at lacrosse, and have won many world championships I think they have won more championships then any other country Canada is the next best with next most championships, most of the finals have been between Canada and the USA.
We should switch to field helmets only
i would like it if we could just use normal lacrosse helmets
This is gay I play box in Canada and everyone is completely fine with the new cage it's not a whole lot different then the old one and this idea is retarted
We should switch to field helmets only
shut up , you are stupid for even implying that, the cages should be switched back not switch helmets
dip lip youre mean
dip lip Lol