Do you guys have any extra video business/money tips? Hit me! Corporate Video Guide: academy.dslrvideoshooter.com/courses/corporate-video-guide Full Livestream with Corbyn: ruclips.net/video/ePVqTmrsr0k/видео.html Gear I Used In This Video: kit.com/calebpike/youtube
Yes also have an expenses and travel budget, possibly also catering, if you're shooting on location you'll need a runner driver and a hire car, you may need to pay for permissions to shoot in locations, to use music in the final piece or anyother copyrighted material that you shoot. also say upfront that the first re-edit is free and there'll be additional charges for extra editing as it is *such* a time consuming thing.
Here is a question that maybe you or Corbin can answer. -- When giving or sending quotes, do you ever give them a range? - Reason why I ask is that say for example, a client wants a 2-3 minute corporate video with 3 interviews and some b-roll. Well, there are a few different ways to do that. I could shoot it myself, set interview times further apart so to give me more time to setup in between; do b-roll myself etc.. OR, I can hire a crew (gaffer; mua + pa) - So I feel like when a client contacts us, we not only try our best to learn the most we can about the project they want us to film, but I feel like we need to also figure out who the client is as well. Not so that if its a big client, we charge them more, but so that we can gauge the quality that client is used to. What's your take on this? thanks!
I always have a contingency built in as well. That usually works well for me when the client inevitably changes the project a bit down the line. Unexpected expenses are covered. Great video once again! Thanks for the content - pricing is always something I'm interested to hear how other approach it.
Here's basically a Formula that I use and Works regardless of the Country you live in (Basically this is for 1day Event Shooting, but can be easily adapted): TOTAL_GEAR_WORTH / NUMBER_OF_GIGS_PER_YEAR + HOURLY_WAGE_IN_YOUR_AREA * HOURS_YOU_WORK (including Post) + EXTRAS (Fuel, rental, accommodation, etc). Here's how it works, an example and ideas to scale it up for bigger productions: 1. Pretty much like Corbyn said, your gear breaks, even if it's yours you need to charge to basically "rent it" to the client. Here's why you divide it - Basically it's an idea from articles in economics that you have to "make back" your gear spending in one year. So if you do complex projects and only have 12/year, you divide your gear, let's say it's worth $12000 by 12, so you start with $1000 for your pricing. If your projects are not that complex and you do 24/year, charge $500. Obviously here you can charge an extra 10-25% or even 50% RISK factor (for drones for example), but we'll keep it simple just for now. 2. What does a DP make in your area, hard to find out sometimes, because they factor in the gear and for this Formula you only need his actual hourly wage. Not a problem: What is the Medium Wage in your area. Not just for DPs, but for everyone. This is simpler to find because office workers or other people don't pay for gear. And it makes your price reasonable. Idea: If you are just starting out, ask for below medium wage, if you have experience, ask for above (pretty much how every job works). So find out a /hour number and multiply with no. of hours you work (idea: if your work involves super long hours in a single day, consider doing the same thing that companies do for extra time, charge 200%. E.g: $30/hour is the Medium wage. You are asked to work 14 hours. That's $30*8 hours + $60*6 hours = $600. IMPORTANT: If you do post production after, factor in those hours too. For that 14 hour shoot mentioned above, is it something simple that requires an extra 14 hours, or triple that amount? 3. Finally Extras. You know what these are. If they require you to also invest some time, ad the appropriate Hourly Wage or a percentage of what you are suppose to be spending. E.g. Renting Lenses that you also want to test out first so that you find the right one for the project, that requires time. 4. So How do you Scale it up? Simple! If you work for multiple days you pretty much add the hours that you will be working to the "HOURLY_WAGE_IN_YOUR_AREA * HOURS_YOU_WORK" part of the Formula. The same goes for extra crew. Ad their Wage as well. The TOTAL_GEAR_WORTH / NUMBER_OF_GIGS_PER_YEAR should also increase depending on how many days you have it in the field. It shouldn't be double for 2 days, but it should increase by 10-20% (For further research, I recommend seeing what renting companies are doing. See the difference between renting for 1 day or a 'special offer' for multiple days. Calculate their percentage and fit it into your formula). 5. Now let's give some examples. We'll start with a simple 1 day 14 hour event shoot (just one person that is starting out): Gear=$10000, Events/year=12. We get $833. Wage in area is $15/hour (for first 8 hours, double for the rest): $15*8 + $30*6 = $300 (just for the shoot). Let's say you need 20 more hours to edit (but you are doing it at your own pace so no double wage), that's $15*20 = $300 more. TOTAL (excluding extras) = $1433. How about the final example from this video, let's see if we can factor those in to our formula: You got $1500 for 3 days (assuming that it's a normal 8 hour work day), Hourly wage there is $31 for you $19 for assistant, Rental ( what I call the cost of your gear/number of gigs) is low in your case, so it's either $2400 gear/12 gigs = $200 or $4800/24 (but the former is more likely because you just said you were starting out). And then finally post-production, considering that your wage is still $31 for this one, that's 8 hours of editing (about enough for simple interviews probably). Here is my take on the same situation: Gear = $3000 (if you also edit, your computer has to count for something), Gigs = 6 (you are really just starting out, you estimate this number). You get $500(for one day), let's say 3 days is +50% = $750. Hourly wage (don't sell yourself high), settle for $15/hour when starting out (but check your area first: cashiers, clerks). So $15 * 8 hours * 3 days = $360 + that editing time $15 * 10 hours = $150. Total here $510. Ad another $200 for the assistant ($12.5/hour) and you get $710. TOTAL = $750 + $710 = $1460 with no extra cost added. And I know what some people are going to say: "Why should I charge less for my gear if I'm getting more work?". Well, because investments. You constantly buy new gear. So if you start out with $3000 gear / 6 gigs per year = $500, next year you may get 12 gigs, but you've also invested in another $3000 worth of gear, so $6000/12 is still $500, however your hourly wage will reflect your experience and raise your overall total. The thing with this formula is to keep things realistic. Don't assume that you have $10000 worth of gear and you'll only do 2 projects this year, so you start your pricing at $5000. The formula also reflects how much money you need to stay afloat. So if you only have 2/year, you might as well start charging at $5000 so that you can put food on the table, the problem is that nobody will give you that money.
I was working in a pro audio/video sales/rental place. A woman came in and asked if we did wedding videos. I told her we only rented the gear, and she almost burst into tears. She said she needed a wedding videographer, but everyone wanted $1200 to $1500 dollars, and all she had was $30. I felt so bad for her, I said I would shoot her wedding video (just the ceremony, not the reception), and give her a DVD of it - for $30. She was delighted, and I thought I was pushing the Universe toward eternal karmic harmony... Obviously, it was a disaster. I showed up at the church, got my camera set up, and even got an audio feed from the DJ for the music. Bueno. At the last minute, a bridesmaid came over and said the bride told her to tell me that I needed to move to a different spot, off to the side. I told her that was going to be bad, since I was only going to get the backs of people's heads (which turned out to be true). She shrugged, like "Just do it", and walked away. The wedding was about to start, and arguing with the bride at this point wasn't going to end well. So I shot the backs of people's heads. After the ceremony, I approached the bride, and told her what had happened (I'd rather let someone know about problems at the time, than have it be a total surprise later). "Don't worry about it", she said. "Everything got messed up today.". I shrugged, and went home to edit and make her DVD. After about a week, she returned from her honeymoon and picked up her DVD. Several days later, she and her husband (whom I still call "Anger-Management") stormed in. He starts yelling that I obviously didn't know what I was doing. He said he'd talked to some friends of his who shoot weddings for a living (curiously, none of them offered to shoot his wedding for $30...), and they said I should have done a 2 camera shoot - with one camera on a crane. He didn't like when I pointed out that he didn't really pay for a 1 camera shoot, or a crane. He wanted their money back, but my manager at the time said he could give them the cost of the materials (a couple of dollars back then), but not the cost of my time. Anger-Management yelled "Well, I know exactly what to do with this!" (holding up the DVD), and he stormed out with the bride in tow. I can only assume he thought he'd go to the Better Business Bureau, show them the DVD, and they'd give him a medal, and throw me in prison. That's not exactly what happened. In fact, nothing happened. Except I vowed to never to shoot a wedding video for less than $1200 to $1500 dollars in the future...
Madness by Design ayeeeeyaya! Having everything included outlined in a simple contract is great tool if someone gets their dukes up after the fact. The contract is a $50 administration fee btw lol. One would hope for the success of a marriage that that husband and wife actually communicate with one another moreso now than during the wedding planning.
Chosen Idea, Hindsight is 20/20, as they say... If I ever wanted to shoot weddings again (I don't - not ever), I would absolutely have a contract. It's just a good idea that spells everything out and protects everyone's interests... :)
I NEVER mind losing a job on price. There is always someone who charges more and someone who charges less. You have to know what you need to earn to stay in business. Also 50% might sound like a lot BUT what they did not mention were taxes. Depending on where you live by the time you pay federal (and state) taxes that 50% easily drops to 30%. There seems to be a lot confusion about the 50%. What Corbin is saying is this... if the total price of the job is $1000 you NEED to walk away with $500 after all the crew and shoot expenses are paid. BUT what he is not saying is you are making 50%. You need to walk away with 50% because of taxes, overhead and other cost will eat into that 50%. You need 50% because after paying bills, expenses, etc. if you are lucky you will see a PROFIT of hopefully 20%. ($100). You have to know what it cost to run your business. That means taxes, cellphone, hard drive storage, computer upgrades, software, etc. etc. If you do not see a gross profit of 50% then you are losing money. This is what Caleb was trying to explain at the end. If you do not charge enough then you are just moving money from one place to the other and not growing your business.
very true man. A few years ago I just to take any job for any amount of money, but now I feel I can not do that anymore if my goal is to grow as a business.
I have been trying to grow my business for nearly a year now and its slowly getting there. A friend of mine is trying to do the same and he is so adamant that doing big projects for free will benefit in future. I've helped him out on shoots for car dealerships and entrepreneurs for absolutely nothing. He keeps saying that he doesn't want to do the little jobs like I am doing (£250 a day shoots here and there) he'd rather wait for the big £10K jobs to roll in from doing all this free work. He still hasn't made a penny. It would seem from both of our experiences that kindness mostly gets you nowhere in this industry.
Thanks for sharing! Remember to treat everything you do as a business! If you look at it as a hobby, you’re going to get hobby prices. Most likely a client is hiring you as a professional. Be the professional that they’re looking for and you’ll get what you need to build a solid business! Cheers all!
This is THE THING that I struggle with the most. I find that coming right out and asking what the client’s budget is, is often the best way to start the pricing process. From there you can build a 3 level pricing structure. Level 1. Lower than their budget (slightly) - perhaps it’s a lower time investment for them and yourself, sometimes I’ve landed multiple small jobs this way. Level 2. What they asked for. Level 3. Slightly beyond their initial budget, but offers extras that they may be interested in. This can often be a winning way to up-sell. Disclaimer: I’m not a pro. I’ve been pricing small local jobs like this and it seems to work for me. I’m a one man show (director, editor, camera and sound guy) for now 😉.
People that are commenting "If I could charge 15k for a project then I wouldn't need this video" are missing the point. They're not telling you how much to charge per project, they're showing you the factors that play into determining the price of a project. They just used a high budget as an example. And of you watched the entire video you'd see that he used a lower budget example at the end.
The rates Corbyn refers to are corporate rates, but I suspect most viewers of this youtube channel are working smaller budget markets. My advice is to speak with people in your area, shooting the same kinds of projects you are bidding on. Disregard the low ball clients on Craigslist which will only drive the rates down in your market. Be realistic and flexible with clients, but make sure you aren't giving your services away. Also, don't forget other expenses not mentioned in the video (hair & make up, location permits/fees, media storage, craft (food) service for crew, parking/travel expense, and others).
Sadly most clients in Germany would laugh in your face if you confront them with those numbers. The industry over here isn't as "respected" as it is in the states maybe... "what? 15k for a little film? We have someone that does it for less than half!" 😥 Maybe I'll do a video about the prices over here some day.
Wenn du Qualität bringst, musst du die Eier in der Hose haben und einfach das verlangen, was du benötigst. Am Besten machst du deine Rechnungen transparent und zeigst dem Unternehmen/Klienten, dass du/deine Kollegen auch ihren Lebensunterhalt verdienen müssen. Das Problem in der Branche sind nicht die Unternehmen, die Videos für so wenig Geld haben wollen, sondern die Leute, die ihnen die Videos für so wenig Geld machen.
Da kann ich Tobias nur teilweise zustimmen.. Die Zahlen aus dem Clip sind Mittelwerte. Für 5 Tage Arbeit + 3x 3 Manntage sind 14t € nicht überteuert. Ob das jeder Kunde bereit ist zu zahlen steht auf einem anderen Blatt. 🙄 Aber das liegt sicher nicht an den viele kleinen Videographer die auf den Markt kommen.
It's for producers who AREN'T charging 15k for a shoot. You just look at the level of these producers, look at their numbers, consider their market, and then compare your situation. If you know an audio guy in your market who charges half that rate, then you can fill out the rest of the spreadsheet accordingly. It's just a jumping off point... a scale of comparison.
To give people a realistic frame of reference to what things should cost, many people underbid projects small and large and the more you see real numbers the more it helps
Not true, friend. Roughly the level where I’m at. Though my profits are significantly under 40%. Scary low, which is why I watched this video. Though, I am at a period in my life when I’m shooting an $11k music video, I can AFFORD to take less profit, in order to invest those funds into the overall video, therefore beefing up the quality of video to then gain more reputation and securing larger clients. Take a look at my website. Many projects on there were free to $1500 on my reel. Some are $5000. Some are higher. But they all look way way way more expensive than what they were, hence our name “kids with no budget.” Kidswithnobudget.com
Good tips. Aiming for the 50% profit is a great suggestion. I also think it's important after the client agrees to the costs, that they give you 50% of the total before you start shooting. I've made the mistake of not getting money up front, and just ended up chasing the client for payment for months. The bottom line - so to speak - is that when money IS involved, as in the up front payment, the client will be more attentive to you and the project all the way to completion. When they don't pay anything up front, there is no incentive to take care of your needs.
I agree. I have started requiring 50% deposit on all work to get on my calendar. It's great, you find out who is serious about a photoshoot. There are so many people who think they can book an appointment and not show up for a photoshoot if they haven't had to put any money down first.
PhotoJoseph he hagling on the price on photos for 300 and ask for cinematic video as a bonus with only 50 dollar extra. And when I refused he insult the art by saying 'how hard can it be, even my nephew can do that '....
Its really hard to make a living as a photographer because photographers have devalued themselves and work for none livable wages. We can't allow videos to go that route, you have spent more years learning to use a camera than people have spend going to college. Know your worth.
This was a great video Caleb. Please keep doing this I’m a Newby, newby film maker switching careers 50+ thanks so much. Technology has changed the game so much
Glad that some of my favorite video gear review RUclipsrs espouse realistic expectations when it goes to getting paid. There are so many weekend warriors engaged in a race to the bottom when it comes to pricing.
Omg this video was sooo helpful! I just spend over $3.5k on camera gear now I am trying to figure out how to make a return on my investment. What I got from this video is that I should google how much it would cost to rent each peace of equipment I use for however long the shoot is, then add an extra charge for my time and call it a day.
So awesome. Thank you for this! So many video production You tubers won’t touch this subject with a 10 foot pole. And if they do make a video on the subject the main message is “it all depends”
We can sponsor you through RUclips??? DONE. You have provided remarkable content that far exceeds $5/month! From gear setups, audio, editing, etc., this channel is the reason I can work full time and still shoot on the side.
Hey Caleb, Love the video! It helps me so much in my own pricing. Clients sometimes have no clue about the value of skills that artists possessed. Thanks for the educational video. Hope to see more pricing video in the future!
As much as possible demonstrating value from the early stages all the way through. You can always charge more when you first ask the right questions and become a guide to the client.
Ha.. How many of us are doing ALL OF THIS as a 1 man crew? I'd guess 80%. I definitely am. So how do you figure out day rate when you're doing everything? Well, typically for a small biz client in my area, the most anyone is willing to pay is 3k. Most projects fall around $1,500 in my area.
I think 1500 to 3k is actually pretty reasonable for a 1 man crew. The goal is you produce enough of that type of stuff until you are pretty well established in that space. Then from there you try to move into the next level of clients. I think this shit is insanely hard and a lot of people do devalue videographers, filmmakers, etc. That said, the other option is switching careers and not chasing the creative career. Careers are freaking hard. As a filmmaker you're becoming an entrepreneur and building a business is a bitch, especially a service oriented business where everyone has the basic tech in their pockets to shoot stuff now. Idk where I'm going with this, I just felt like I need to rant.
Great video First time I see someone gives real numbers...and as you said...it's important to look at the profit otherwise you need to look for a job as an employee not as an Entrepreneur...it's all about the mindset I guess
Awesome stuff as always Caleb! One of the things I struggled with when negotiating with clients, was having to be a hard ass when it comes to shooting day rate vs hour rate. The way I've managed to work that is that I say if I have to travel anywhere for a shoot, it's my day wrapped up, I'm not going to be working on anything else, and so I charge a full day. If I'm working on post-production which I mostly do from my studio, then I'll offer a full day at 100% price, or a half day at 75% price of full day. That way the client can save a little if they don't want to commit to a full day's hire, and I can potentially get some other Post work done for the second half of the day for a different client without feeling like I'm cheating either client. So when a client asks what my hourly rate is, I don't try and dance around it or try and count how many hours it'll take. I just say I charge by the day and most of the time they're happy with that.
I've been out of the business for years, I mean for about 20 years. Now getting back into it. This is Great info to see how things may or may have NOT changed. Nicely done.
Caleb, do you have a video for smaller youtubers who are getting first requests for sponsored video content? You might say to scale it down, but i feel the scenario and equation for a first timer for a first gig is different, am I wrong?
This video is so important. Just subscribed a week ago and really enjoy your content. You seem like you actually care about providing information to your viewers as apposed to just getting views and subs. Cheers!
I've come back to this vid a couple times since it went live, and it's been really helpful. My big company recently got rid of most of it's media team, so I'm slowly, patiently transitioning to freelance, even though I don't really wanna'. Regardless, thanks for the help, team.
Pricing by the hour is so limiting. You cannot scale that to make money. Does the client really care how much hours you spend on creating the video ? No. He only cares because he knows it's often linked to price. He just wants a kickass video for his biz. To add to this paradox, imagine he asks you "I absolutely needs a video in 3 days from now". And you know it's going to be hard because you know it should be a 5 to 6 days work. Will you charge half of the price for that ? No you will work faster and pull strings to do it, but most importantly you should ask your client 50% more on price to get it done on such a short timeframe because it's going to be hard. Therefore, what I am doing these days is this. I say to the client for that video, it will cost you X and it's planned over Y days for an ideal situation. (Maybe I specify X = pre prod + production + post prod + gear + set & props + expenses Note you should never talk cost/hour of crew members neither number of crew members with your client. As long as their video is done how they want it, why should they care ?) Then the only way to cut costs is not by reducing time. It's reducing features of the video (which could reduce time) or find some other kind of agreement to cut costs that would work for you. And if the shoot has to be more or less that Y days, then it will cost MORE in BOTH cases. If more days than Y, it costs more because you're using days you cannot do something else. If it's less than Y days, it costs more because the client requests a feature : quick delivery.
we go by the rule of pick two of the three: fast, cheap. good fast and good is higher cost, more people fast and cheap, its just you and a camera real cheap is the phone with your 9 yr old niece
Sorry for bad English btw. This topic i have been fight with my teammates all the time that we should charge more and realisticly pricing our clients. It was true for the mid-level and high-level works that you need to profit and seriously calculate your price. But in entry-level, I found that charging less is like buying our experience. You can't do 100,000$ budget if you haven't worked for 1,000$ before. Artistic Career takes time and I think charging less benefit you in the long run in entry level
Honestly in my opinion if they ask how much do you charge I would say “Well what’s your budget” and that should kinda help you out a ton so you don’t under and over bid yourself...
That doesn't work. You will get this answer: $500 Nobody will tell you what their "actual" budget is. They will always give you a low ball answer and then what do you do. Just my thoughts from years of making similar mistakes. You must know what you are worth and stick to it. Maybe their project just can't afford a pro like you. ;)
great video with a lot of great info! only thing I'd like to know is what you charge for as far as licensing goes or how you structure contracts for your media. Do you let them use the commercial forever? can they only play it via web? etc etc.
Great how candid you are in this video. I would love to see you guys get more savvy on pricing vs costing. What you've done here is the costing of a one-size-fits-all level of production. Wiggle room in production costs is one way of presenting different levels of investment to a client but ultimately focuses only on the effort put in. That way of thinking reduces you to a commodity and creates a self-imposed ceiling on your revenue. Maybe interview someone who is an expert on value-based billing?
Great info here. And yeah that corporate money is GOOD 💰 money. Got our first $50k+ gig doing internal video for a corporate entity. But like you guys said only 50% of that is profit.
Keep doing more of these! Very informative for those starting out. Would it be possible to do a segment on "How Much Money Should You Charge For Motion Graphics Work?"
OMG, this was so helpful!!!! This question came up today while I was talking to another business person who does photo shoots. She said I charge too much for small business persons who have very small businesses/sole proprietorships. Seeing this, I understand why. She wouldn't have $10k. For people like me and her, $1k is a huge amt of cash. So I have to rethink my business model and evaluate if my target market needs tweaking...otherwise I won't make any money, even alone. I did ask someone else more experienced for help, but he didn't give me his way of charging. His scale is more like the example they gave here. Gives me something to shoot for! (Pun intended.)
Thanks for sharing this. Two questions. Corbin mentioned having 50% profit for the business set aside but based on the numbers, where would that come from? Did he mean that you should double the project rate or is that amount supposed to come from the director pay (since he was paying himself)? The second question is was the editing included in his director rate or did he mean for that to come from post production? I've done a couple projects where, like your second example, i played all roles including the editor and animator in post but did bring along an assistant. Did corbin mean to add the editor in and forget to by accident? The overall project rates make sense I was just asking for clarification on those two questions.
I think I agree with Dub in that it should be across the board. Because, what you are essentially factoring in is company growth. People tend not to factor this in. For example, were you to increase the crew size, it's not merely just doubling hours, because now there is coordination work, and backend /admin/ payroll etc that needs to support it. So even though he worded it as Profit, it actually should be thought of as margin or markup, which will give you some money you can pile back into growing your company.
Where do you find clients who are willing to spend $15000 on a three day production? I'm a professional videographer since 1990 and my experience is that virtually all clients are CHEAPSKATES with no appreciation for the talent, skill, effort and time it takes to produce quality commercial videos. Their budget is usually something less than it would cost to rent the gear and do the job themselves. I would love to know where to find clients with a realistic budget.
That advice would make sense if I said I live in India or Bangladesh. But, I live in southern California, USA. The rates here should be at the higher end of the scale compared to just about anywhere else. The truth is, clients here want to pay rates that would be unrealistically low even for India or Bangladesh!
Bitching about pricing is nothing new. It happens in EVERY industry. But frankly the solution is pretty simple... 1.) Target your services to clients who have a budget. 2.) Learn to differentiate and communicate your value. 3.) If the potential client does not have a budget that fits your services then they are NOT your client. Move on. In every industry there is a wide range of products and service. Ford is not Ferrari and they are not after the same customer. There are Walmart customers and there are Nordstroms customers. Both of these companies make money but you have to decide where your services fit and who you want as a client.
Lee Love Exactly. Nothing wrong with firing your client - I've been working for myself in a different industry, but it still applies. Or if you know some kids that need the experience more than the money (and you know they will do an OK job) tossing it their way can get you friends in both houses.
The money in any creative field is being able to sell ideas first, then technical skills and talent second. You have to stay far, far away from small businesses and really just gear yourself towards commercial endeavors. There are a lot of people doing it and making a living, but you need to be damn good. It's all about vision + style + strategy + execution. People will of course cheapskate out on corporate video or videography because they really just need you to press buttons. But if you come up with a branding idea that can actually bring them revenue, you're on to something. Go to ad school. Work your way into creative agencies that charge these rates + media fees and see how different the process is. I've read your blog (I think) and seen your work. Stay away from small businesses and the dreaded start ups until you get a big client. But to get that big client, you also need to be an idea person that has a clear strategy and creative process in mind.
When say someone is starting out into video production. These are some ways to look at a structure (this is internal and wont be shared with your clients of-course). Im talking with primarily one man bands in mind who do promo video work etc. Because a large portion of us here fall under that category. The video company, huge team kind of setup etc that the OP is talking about, those kinda guys wont be hanging around youtube for ideas on how to do their pricing im sure. Its after you know pricing techniques welllll enough is where you grow to that level. OPTION 1 : Say an entrepreneur (videographer) invests about $6000 onto his video production equipment. Now if you charge a certain sum for production, you may only be recovering the equipment cost you invested. And when hit the $6000 mark, your equipment already needs revamping or upgrades. So some banking people suggest that you should be able to recover the entire amount you invested in a business within the first year at least. Or 2 years maybe. And after that what you charge is profit or income (in which there will be running expenses too) but anyway you get the picture. So some work for a year or 2 to recover their investment and then later on whatever comes thru is for running expenses + profit. Whats your comment on this revenue model ? Or how do you guys look at it. OPTION 2 : Do you think of the equipment as your asset (not consider it) and whatever comes from day 1 is your profit/income and you set aside a small portion on each project towards equipment renewal which will accrue after say 3-5 years in a fixed deposit etc. Then after 5 years that corpus will pay for your new equipment and/or upgrades. OPTION 3 : Some finance people say to take what you invested and divide it by say 10. So 10% will be your equipment recovery cost. So in 10 projects you should recover that equipment cost. Because that 10 projects is assumed as the life of that equipment. This is hypothetical so don't get too hooked onto the actual numbers and say the life of a camera/lenses/lighting/edit system is more than just 10 projects. Its all relative and for someone doing it as a side business 10 projects may pan out in maybe 2 or even 3 years. For another individual they may complete 10 projects in a year. So the base is 1 year or 10 projects (whichever comes first). Within this period you should recover that equipment investment. So the videographer charges 10% or 1/10th as his equipment recovery charge. So $600 will be that part. That is nothing but life of equipment and wont help you a penny. The rest that you charge above this will cover your COB (cost of doing business) and your profit. So cost of business is what you spend on your office/electricity/running expenses/mktg/advertising etc. This is something you can assimilate over a year and divide that by your number of projects. So say $200 overhead for that. The rest is your profit that you charge. Dont complicate with taxes etc, we can get into that later and it varies by each country. But this is the backbone of charging a client. What do you guys feel. Because you can end up doing productions at a certain fee and then only after 3 years realize that you only recovered what you invested and by then the equipment is dated (which happens to be the current superfast trend) thereby realizing that you ended up doing free work, for just passion. Some might even be ok with that, if they are working a day job and do this just for pleasure, knowing that their hobby investments are paid for. But for someone wanting to "earn a profit" out of this then we need to go with something like option 3. So that in a certain number of projects you recovered the cost of equipment, which enables you to pay for some inflation alone and upgrade to new current equipment.
I was thinking of shooting behind the scenes and Day in the life videos fir local artist but I don’t know how much to charge... what are your thoughts. The videos would be for RUclips
In Corbyn's example is the DP rate with or with out camera package? if it's with camera package what is included? And what is a "standard" camera package for most DP's, camera op's, shooters consist of? Not looking for types of cameras, but in that camera package does that included lenses (Primes, zooms, still lenses with an adapter) media, tripod, batteries, etc... Another great video @DSLR Video Shooter
I've been struggling with this for the longest. I used to go hourly rates until someone asked if I had a "package" and I completely blanked out... actually this happened last week 😂 😂
The breakdown is good info for sure. Still seems too low based on 3-5 days of work with that many people. But depends on where you live I suppose as well. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for this very important video, so do have an idea how much should I charge for 3 min Tv segment? Including editing. I do all the pre/post production my self using my gears.
Hello Caleb how are you? Thanks for this. I like to guess lighting setups I would like to guess what type of lighting you're using right now for this talkin head portion. I'm thinking it's a fluorescent daylight softbox with a greeted modifier. Let me know if I'm close. Peace
How about just editing someone’s vlog that’s 5-6 minutes long ? Any tips on pricing? How about an edit on a 10 min vlog? Hope to hear from you! Thanks for the vid!
I've learned just to charge hourly.. don't work for less than it's worth it to you, otherwise you get stuck on a budget and end up spending way more time on a project when a client starts nitpicking and wanting something perfect.
FilmIn5D a project cost estimate, is usually based on an hourly/day rate in the first place (like what these guys did). My quote usually includes three rounds of changes, each round with an hourly rate attached. When changes start happening I keep the client in the loop if their changes are going beyond the quoted hours. Clients normally have a deadline and ballpark budget, so getting away without quoting more than your hourly rate is a tough one when most clients aren't going to know how long things take (I'm saying an hourly rate doesn't really tell them anything).
I will never hire a DP that exceed my fee as a director for a corporate gig. He didn’t value the workload from pitching to the client, preview and deliverables. The directors credibility will determine to win the gig or not.
Hey Caleb. I am a 15 year old filmmaker who kinda does it all. I have a G7 and 25mm 1.7 lens but it’s time for me to invest in some serious glass. Should I invest in panasonic glass for a future gh5 or sony glass with an a7iii? I’m torn because I need autofocus lenses but not necessarily afc just to grab focus quickly, so I don’t really want to adapt but if adapting is good I guess I would go for it, but i’m looking at like 2k budget. Any thoughts?
Do you guys have any extra video business/money tips? Hit me!
Corporate Video Guide: academy.dslrvideoshooter.com/courses/corporate-video-guide
Full Livestream with Corbyn: ruclips.net/video/ePVqTmrsr0k/видео.html
Gear I Used In This Video: kit.com/calebpike/youtube
Yes also have an expenses and travel budget, possibly also catering, if you're shooting on location you'll need a runner driver and a hire car, you may need to pay for permissions to shoot in locations, to use music in the final piece or anyother copyrighted material that you shoot. also say upfront that the first re-edit is free and there'll be additional charges for extra editing as it is *such* a time consuming thing.
Here is a question that maybe you or Corbin can answer. -- When giving or sending quotes, do you ever give them a range? - Reason why I ask is that say for example, a client wants a 2-3 minute corporate video with 3 interviews and some b-roll. Well, there are a few different ways to do that. I could shoot it myself, set interview times further apart so to give me more time to setup in between; do b-roll myself etc.. OR, I can hire a crew (gaffer; mua + pa) - So I feel like when a client contacts us, we not only try our best to learn the most we can about the project they want us to film, but I feel like we need to also figure out who the client is as well. Not so that if its a big client, we charge them more, but so that we can gauge the quality that client is used to. What's your take on this? thanks!
very good this type of content 😊
I always have a contingency built in as well. That usually works well for me when the client inevitably changes the project a bit down the line. Unexpected expenses are covered. Great video once again! Thanks for the content - pricing is always something I'm interested to hear how other approach it.
Here's basically a Formula that I use and Works regardless of the Country you live in (Basically this is for 1day Event Shooting, but can be easily adapted):
TOTAL_GEAR_WORTH / NUMBER_OF_GIGS_PER_YEAR + HOURLY_WAGE_IN_YOUR_AREA * HOURS_YOU_WORK (including Post) + EXTRAS (Fuel, rental, accommodation, etc).
Here's how it works, an example and ideas to scale it up for bigger productions:
1. Pretty much like Corbyn said, your gear breaks, even if it's yours you need to charge to basically "rent it" to the client. Here's why you divide it - Basically it's an idea from articles in economics that you have to "make back" your gear spending in one year. So if you do complex projects and only have 12/year, you divide your gear, let's say it's worth $12000 by 12, so you start with $1000 for your pricing. If your projects are not that complex and you do 24/year, charge $500. Obviously here you can charge an extra 10-25% or even 50% RISK factor (for drones for example), but we'll keep it simple just for now.
2. What does a DP make in your area, hard to find out sometimes, because they factor in the gear and for this Formula you only need his actual hourly wage. Not a problem: What is the Medium Wage in your area. Not just for DPs, but for everyone. This is simpler to find because office workers or other people don't pay for gear. And it makes your price reasonable. Idea: If you are just starting out, ask for below medium wage, if you have experience, ask for above (pretty much how every job works). So find out a /hour number and multiply with no. of hours you work (idea: if your work involves super long hours in a single day, consider doing the same thing that companies do for extra time, charge 200%. E.g: $30/hour is the Medium wage. You are asked to work 14 hours. That's $30*8 hours + $60*6 hours = $600.
IMPORTANT: If you do post production after, factor in those hours too. For that 14 hour shoot mentioned above, is it something simple that requires an extra 14 hours, or triple that amount?
3. Finally Extras. You know what these are. If they require you to also invest some time, ad the appropriate Hourly Wage or a percentage of what you are suppose to be spending. E.g. Renting Lenses that you also want to test out first so that you find the right one for the project, that requires time.
4. So How do you Scale it up? Simple!
If you work for multiple days you pretty much add the hours that you will be working to the "HOURLY_WAGE_IN_YOUR_AREA * HOURS_YOU_WORK" part of the Formula. The same goes for extra crew. Ad their Wage as well. The TOTAL_GEAR_WORTH / NUMBER_OF_GIGS_PER_YEAR should also increase depending on how many days you have it in the field. It shouldn't be double for 2 days, but it should increase by 10-20% (For further research, I recommend seeing what renting companies are doing. See the difference between renting for 1 day or a 'special offer' for multiple days. Calculate their percentage and fit it into your formula).
5. Now let's give some examples. We'll start with a simple 1 day 14 hour event shoot (just one person that is starting out):
Gear=$10000, Events/year=12. We get $833. Wage in area is $15/hour (for first 8 hours, double for the rest): $15*8 + $30*6 = $300 (just for the shoot). Let's say you need 20 more hours to edit (but you are doing it at your own pace so no double wage), that's $15*20 = $300 more.
TOTAL (excluding extras) = $1433.
How about the final example from this video, let's see if we can factor those in to our formula:
You got $1500 for 3 days (assuming that it's a normal 8 hour work day), Hourly wage there is $31 for you $19 for assistant, Rental ( what I call the cost of your gear/number of gigs) is low in your case, so it's either $2400 gear/12 gigs = $200 or $4800/24 (but the former is more likely because you just said you were starting out). And then finally post-production, considering that your wage is still $31 for this one, that's 8 hours of editing (about enough for simple interviews probably).
Here is my take on the same situation: Gear = $3000 (if you also edit, your computer has to count for something), Gigs = 6 (you are really just starting out, you estimate this number). You get $500(for one day), let's say 3 days is +50% = $750. Hourly wage (don't sell yourself high), settle for $15/hour when starting out (but check your area first: cashiers, clerks). So $15 * 8 hours * 3 days = $360 + that editing time $15 * 10 hours = $150. Total here $510. Ad another $200 for the assistant ($12.5/hour) and you get $710. TOTAL = $750 + $710 = $1460 with no extra cost added.
And I know what some people are going to say: "Why should I charge less for my gear if I'm getting more work?". Well, because investments. You constantly buy new gear. So if you start out with $3000 gear / 6 gigs per year = $500, next year you may get 12 gigs, but you've also invested in another $3000 worth of gear, so $6000/12 is still $500, however your hourly wage will reflect your experience and raise your overall total.
The thing with this formula is to keep things realistic. Don't assume that you have $10000 worth of gear and you'll only do 2 projects this year, so you start your pricing at $5000. The formula also reflects how much money you need to stay afloat. So if you only have 2/year, you might as well start charging at $5000 so that you can put food on the table, the problem is that nobody will give you that money.
I was working in a pro audio/video sales/rental place. A woman came in and asked if we did wedding videos. I told her we only rented the gear, and she almost burst into tears. She said she needed a wedding videographer, but everyone wanted $1200 to $1500 dollars, and all she had was $30. I felt so bad for her, I said I would shoot her wedding video (just the ceremony, not the reception), and give her a DVD of it - for $30. She was delighted, and I thought I was pushing the Universe toward eternal karmic harmony...
Obviously, it was a disaster. I showed up at the church, got my camera set up, and even got an audio feed from the DJ for the music. Bueno. At the last minute, a bridesmaid came over and said the bride told her to tell me that I needed to move to a different spot, off to the side. I told her that was going to be bad, since I was only going to get the backs of people's heads (which turned out to be true). She shrugged, like "Just do it", and walked away. The wedding was about to start, and arguing with the bride at this point wasn't going to end well. So I shot the backs of people's heads. After the ceremony, I approached the bride, and told her what had happened (I'd rather let someone know about problems at the time, than have it be a total surprise later). "Don't worry about it", she said. "Everything got messed up today.". I shrugged, and went home to edit and make her DVD.
After about a week, she returned from her honeymoon and picked up her DVD. Several days later, she and her husband (whom I still call "Anger-Management") stormed in. He starts yelling that I obviously didn't know what I was doing. He said he'd talked to some friends of his who shoot weddings for a living (curiously, none of them offered to shoot his wedding for $30...), and they said I should have done a 2 camera shoot - with one camera on a crane. He didn't like when I pointed out that he didn't really pay for a 1 camera shoot, or a crane. He wanted their money back, but my manager at the time said he could give them the cost of the materials (a couple of dollars back then), but not the cost of my time. Anger-Management yelled "Well, I know exactly what to do with this!" (holding up the DVD), and he stormed out with the bride in tow.
I can only assume he thought he'd go to the Better Business Bureau, show them the DVD, and they'd give him a medal, and throw me in prison. That's not exactly what happened. In fact, nothing happened. Except I vowed to never to shoot a wedding video for less than $1200 to $1500 dollars in the future...
best story I read this week :D
Glad you liked my cautionary tale! :)
Madness by Design ayeeeeyaya! Having everything included outlined in a simple contract is great tool if someone gets their dukes up after the fact. The contract is a $50 administration fee btw lol. One would hope for the success of a marriage that that husband and wife actually communicate with one another moreso now than during the wedding planning.
Chosen Idea, Hindsight is 20/20, as they say... If I ever wanted to shoot weddings again (I don't - not ever), I would absolutely have a contract. It's just a good idea that spells everything out and protects everyone's interests... :)
@@madnessbydesignVria why don't you want to?
I NEVER mind losing a job on price. There is always someone who charges more and someone who charges less. You have to know what you need to earn to stay in business. Also 50% might sound like a lot BUT what they did not mention were taxes. Depending on where you live by the time you pay federal (and state) taxes that 50% easily drops to 30%.
There seems to be a lot confusion about the 50%. What Corbin is saying is this... if the total price of the job is $1000 you NEED to walk away with $500 after all the crew and shoot expenses are paid. BUT what he is not saying is you are making 50%. You need to walk away with 50% because of taxes, overhead and other cost will eat into that 50%. You need 50% because after paying bills, expenses, etc. if you are lucky you will see a PROFIT of hopefully 20%. ($100). You have to know what it cost to run your business. That means taxes, cellphone, hard drive storage, computer upgrades, software, etc. etc. If you do not see a gross profit of 50% then you are losing money. This is what Caleb was trying to explain at the end. If you do not charge enough then you are just moving money from one place to the other and not growing your business.
very true man. A few years ago I just to take any job for any amount of money, but now I feel I can not do that anymore if my goal is to grow as a business.
I have been trying to grow my business for nearly a year now and its slowly getting there. A friend of mine is trying to do the same and he is so adamant that doing big projects for free will benefit in future. I've helped him out on shoots for car dealerships and entrepreneurs for absolutely nothing. He keeps saying that he doesn't want to do the little jobs like I am doing (£250 a day shoots here and there) he'd rather wait for the big £10K jobs to roll in from doing all this free work. He still hasn't made a penny.
It would seem from both of our experiences that kindness mostly gets you nowhere in this industry.
Thanks for sharing! Remember to treat everything you do as a business! If you look at it as a hobby, you’re going to get hobby prices. Most likely a client is hiring you as a professional. Be the professional that they’re looking for and you’ll get what you need to build a solid business! Cheers all!
This is THE THING that I struggle with the most. I find that coming right out and asking what the client’s budget is, is often the best way to start the pricing process. From there you can build a 3 level pricing structure.
Level 1. Lower than their budget (slightly) - perhaps it’s a lower time investment for them and yourself, sometimes I’ve landed multiple small jobs this way.
Level 2. What they asked for.
Level 3. Slightly beyond their initial budget, but offers extras that they may be interested in. This can often be a winning way to up-sell.
Disclaimer: I’m not a pro. I’ve been pricing small local jobs like this and it seems to work for me. I’m a one man show (director, editor, camera and sound guy) for now 😉.
Mike Barker that's not a bad strategy Mike, I do a similar thing with my design and motion graphics work.
and how much do you actually charge? What are the price for your level?
You make money doing it= you "are" a pro. I know what you are getting at though. Respect.
People that are commenting "If I could charge 15k for a project then I wouldn't need this video" are missing the point. They're not telling you how much to charge per project, they're showing you the factors that play into determining the price of a project. They just used a high budget as an example. And of you watched the entire video you'd see that he used a lower budget example at the end.
The rates Corbyn refers to are corporate rates, but I suspect most viewers of this youtube channel are working smaller budget markets. My advice is to speak with people in your area, shooting the same kinds of projects you are bidding on. Disregard the low ball clients on Craigslist which will only drive the rates down in your market. Be realistic and flexible with clients, but make sure you aren't giving your services away. Also, don't forget other expenses not mentioned in the video (hair & make up, location permits/fees, media storage, craft (food) service for crew, parking/travel expense, and others).
Sadly most clients in Germany would laugh in your face if you confront them with those numbers. The industry over here isn't as "respected" as it is in the states maybe... "what? 15k for a little film? We have someone that does it for less than half!" 😥
Maybe I'll do a video about the prices over here some day.
your not alone.
Wenn du Qualität bringst, musst du die Eier in der Hose haben und einfach das verlangen, was du benötigst. Am Besten machst du deine Rechnungen transparent und zeigst dem Unternehmen/Klienten, dass du/deine Kollegen auch ihren Lebensunterhalt verdienen müssen.
Das Problem in der Branche sind nicht die Unternehmen, die Videos für so wenig Geld haben wollen, sondern die Leute, die ihnen die Videos für so wenig Geld machen.
Da kann ich Tobias nur teilweise zustimmen.. Die Zahlen aus dem Clip sind Mittelwerte. Für 5 Tage Arbeit + 3x 3 Manntage sind 14t € nicht überteuert. Ob das jeder Kunde bereit ist zu zahlen steht auf einem anderen Blatt. 🙄 Aber das liegt sicher nicht an den viele kleinen Videographer die auf den Markt kommen.
I find this very surprising. Here in Dubai, they charge almost twice the amount that dude was talking about. Minimum 30k$ for a major shoot.
Same here in Slovakia :D :'(
If you're at a level where you're charging 15k for a shoot I don't think you need this video, not sure who this is suppose to be for
James Brooks So true
It's for producers who AREN'T charging 15k for a shoot. You just look at the level of these producers, look at their numbers, consider their market, and then compare your situation. If you know an audio guy in your market who charges half that rate, then you can fill out the rest of the spreadsheet accordingly. It's just a jumping off point... a scale of comparison.
To give people a realistic frame of reference to what things should cost, many people underbid projects small and large and the more you see real numbers the more it helps
James Brooks they're not telling you how much to charge, they're showing you the process of determining the expenses of a project.
Not true, friend.
Roughly the level where I’m at. Though my profits are significantly under 40%. Scary low, which is why I watched this video. Though, I am at a period in my life when I’m shooting an $11k music video, I can AFFORD to take less profit, in order to invest those funds into the overall video, therefore beefing up the quality of video to then gain more reputation and securing larger clients.
Take a look at my website. Many projects on there were free to $1500 on my reel. Some are $5000. Some are higher. But they all look way way way more expensive than what they were, hence our name “kids with no budget.” Kidswithnobudget.com
Good tips. Aiming for the 50% profit is a great suggestion. I also think it's important after the client agrees to the costs, that they give you 50% of the total before you start shooting. I've made the mistake of not getting money up front, and just ended up chasing the client for payment for months. The bottom line - so to speak - is that when money IS involved, as in the up front payment, the client will be more attentive to you and the project all the way to completion. When they don't pay anything up front, there is no incentive to take care of your needs.
VFX Todd I say get it all up front
not paying up front doesn't stop them from asking "is it finished?" every day tho lmao
I agree. I have started requiring 50% deposit on all work to get on my calendar. It's great, you find out who is serious about a photoshoot. There are so many people who think they can book an appointment and not show up for a photoshoot if they haven't had to put any money down first.
So good. Next time a prospective client wants a $10,000 video for $500 I think I’ll send them this link ;-)
PhotoJoseph 500 is generous...
Ive got offer to do a wedding with all the cinematic look and drone and shit.... For 50 dollars
Dub yeah.. i had to say go fuck yourself in the most polite and humble way as i coukd be
$50?!?! Wow that’s harsh. People are insane.
Shivakumar L Narayan 😮
PhotoJoseph he hagling on the price on photos for 300 and ask for cinematic video as a bonus with only 50 dollar extra. And when I refused he insult the art by saying 'how hard can it be, even my nephew can do that '....
Its really hard to make a living as a photographer because photographers have devalued themselves and work for none livable wages. We can't allow videos to go that route, you have spent more years learning to use a camera than people have spend going to college. Know your worth.
This was a great video Caleb. Please keep doing this I’m a Newby, newby film maker switching careers 50+ thanks so much. Technology has changed the game so much
Glad that some of my favorite video gear review RUclipsrs espouse realistic expectations when it goes to getting paid. There are so many weekend warriors engaged in a race to the bottom when it comes to pricing.
Omg this video was sooo helpful! I just spend over $3.5k on camera gear now I am trying to figure out how to make a return on my investment. What I got from this video is that I should google how much it would cost to rent each peace of equipment I use for however long the shoot is, then add an extra charge for my time and call it a day.
So awesome. Thank you for this! So many video production You tubers won’t touch this subject with a 10 foot pole. And if they do make a video on the subject the main message is “it all depends”
We can sponsor you through RUclips??? DONE.
You have provided remarkable content that far exceeds $5/month! From gear setups, audio, editing, etc., this channel is the reason I can work full time and still shoot on the side.
I love how the shelving works as like a practical rule of thirds!
Hey Caleb, Love the video! It helps me so much in my own pricing. Clients sometimes have no clue about the value of skills that artists possessed. Thanks for the educational video. Hope to see more pricing video in the future!
I am so new in this industry and your video was a life saver for me.... Thank you sooo much ... Lots of love from India :3
As much as possible demonstrating value from the early stages all the way through. You can always charge more when you first ask the right questions and become a guide to the client.
Ha.. How many of us are doing ALL OF THIS as a 1 man crew? I'd guess 80%. I definitely am. So how do you figure out day rate when you're doing everything? Well, typically for a small biz client in my area, the most anyone is willing to pay is 3k. Most projects fall around $1,500 in my area.
Dude you are rich, I'm in spain and clients ask me if they can pay 200 fractioned XD
I think 1500 to 3k is actually pretty reasonable for a 1 man crew. The goal is you produce enough of that type of stuff until you are pretty well established in that space. Then from there you try to move into the next level of clients. I think this shit is insanely hard and a lot of people do devalue videographers, filmmakers, etc. That said, the other option is switching careers and not chasing the creative career. Careers are freaking hard. As a filmmaker you're becoming an entrepreneur and building a business is a bitch, especially a service oriented business where everyone has the basic tech in their pockets to shoot stuff now. Idk where I'm going with this, I just felt like I need to rant.
That was actually SO helpful! I loved the, if you're not scared crapless it's too low! Made me feel better about my quotes!
Great video
First time I see someone gives real numbers...and as you said...it's important to look at the profit otherwise you need to look for a job as an employee not as an Entrepreneur...it's all about the mindset I guess
Awesome stuff as always Caleb! One of the things I struggled with when negotiating with clients, was having to be a hard ass when it comes to shooting day rate vs hour rate. The way I've managed to work that is that I say if I have to travel anywhere for a shoot, it's my day wrapped up, I'm not going to be working on anything else, and so I charge a full day. If I'm working on post-production which I mostly do from my studio, then I'll offer a full day at 100% price, or a half day at 75% price of full day. That way the client can save a little if they don't want to commit to a full day's hire, and I can potentially get some other Post work done for the second half of the day for a different client without feeling like I'm cheating either client.
So when a client asks what my hourly rate is, I don't try and dance around it or try and count how many hours it'll take. I just say I charge by the day and most of the time they're happy with that.
I've been out of the business for years, I mean for about 20 years. Now getting back into it. This is Great info to see how things may or may have NOT changed. Nicely done.
Good video showing a beginner how to start charging as well as how to increase rates when you're more experienced.
EXcellent Video. Your material is always hi quality and very helpful.
Extremely useful and good information! I really appreciate you guys coming together and making this video possible! Thanks!
Caleb, do you have a video for smaller youtubers who are getting first requests for sponsored video content? You might say to scale it down, but i feel the scenario and equation for a first timer for a first gig is different, am I wrong?
WHOA! This is waaaaayyyyyy over my head. I'd like to know how to charge for your first gig. No, how to land your first gig.
LOL
This video is so important. Just subscribed a week ago and really enjoy your content. You seem like you actually care about providing information to your viewers as apposed to just getting views and subs.
Cheers!
Awesome info. Its really awesome to see your perspective on the pricing of projects! Thanks.
I've come back to this vid a couple times since it went live, and it's been really helpful. My big company recently got rid of most of it's media team, so I'm slowly, patiently transitioning to freelance, even though I don't really wanna'. Regardless, thanks for the help, team.
Pricing by the hour is so limiting. You cannot scale that to make money. Does the client really care how much hours you spend on creating the video ? No. He only cares because he knows it's often linked to price. He just wants a kickass video for his biz.
To add to this paradox, imagine he asks you "I absolutely needs a video in 3 days from now". And you know it's going to be hard because you know it should be a 5 to 6 days work. Will you charge half of the price for that ? No you will work faster and pull strings to do it, but most importantly you should ask your client 50% more on price to get it done on such a short timeframe because it's going to be hard.
Therefore, what I am doing these days is this.
I say to the client for that video, it will cost you X and it's planned over Y days for an ideal situation.
(Maybe I specify X = pre prod + production + post prod + gear + set & props + expenses
Note you should never talk cost/hour of crew members neither number of crew members with your client.
As long as their video is done how they want it, why should they care ?)
Then the only way to cut costs is not by reducing time. It's reducing features of the video (which could reduce time) or find some other kind of agreement to cut costs that would work for you.
And if the shoot has to be more or less that Y days, then it will cost MORE in BOTH cases.
If more days than Y, it costs more because you're using days you cannot do something else.
If it's less than Y days, it costs more because the client requests a feature : quick delivery.
we go by the rule of pick two of the three: fast, cheap. good
fast and good is higher cost, more people
fast and cheap, its just you and a camera
real cheap is the phone with your 9 yr old niece
Oh I watched this on the live stream. Still worth watching again for sure. Great little nugget. Live streams are ace.
Man thank you so much!
This video will help a lot of people all around the world.
Love from France buddy!
This is a great video, I’ve been doing video now for about year and recently started getting clients. Thanks Caleb for sharing this info!
David Lopez
I need more of this videos. Thank you Caleb!
Thank you for sharing this. It’s surprisingly hard to find pros talking about pricing, even though it’s what everyone asks for. :-)
Love this content! These are the answers that I need! I will definitely pick up your corporate video package!
Sorry for bad English btw.
This topic i have been fight with my teammates all the time that we should charge more and realisticly pricing our clients.
It was true for the mid-level and high-level works that you need to profit and seriously calculate your price.
But in entry-level, I found that charging less is like buying our experience. You can't do 100,000$ budget if you haven't worked for 1,000$ before.
Artistic Career takes time and I think charging less benefit you in the long run in entry level
Incredible value!! Thanks guys!
Honestly in my opinion if they ask how much do you charge I would say “Well what’s your budget” and that should kinda help you out a ton so you don’t under and over bid yourself...
That doesn't work. You will get this answer: $500 Nobody will tell you what their "actual" budget is. They will always give you a low ball answer and then what do you do. Just my thoughts from years of making similar mistakes. You must know what you are worth and stick to it. Maybe their project just can't afford a pro like you. ;)
great video with a lot of great info! only thing I'd like to know is what you charge for as far as licensing goes or how you structure contracts for your media.
Do you let them use the commercial forever? can they only play it via web? etc etc.
This is a great question coming from the commercial still photography world usage is everything. WIth video, buyers tend to glaze over that?
@@imnaugle hmmm thats a damn good question
WOW! Thank you for a great video. And for also breaking things down into numbers.
a client just asked me what i charge, this video has saved me from anxious feels
Great video! I love how the numbers were broken down and how you guys discussed budget wiggle room!
This was really good. Helps me to set my pricing. Thanks man
Really helpful! Thanks Caleb!
Great video! Pricing is always very hard! Clients either think too much money or too little. It’s hard to pinpoint it.
Great how candid you are in this video. I would love to see you guys get more savvy on pricing vs costing. What you've done here is the costing of a one-size-fits-all level of production. Wiggle room in production costs is one way of presenting different levels of investment to a client but ultimately focuses only on the effort put in. That way of thinking reduces you to a commodity and creates a self-imposed ceiling on your revenue. Maybe interview someone who is an expert on value-based billing?
Great video, this no one teaches anywhere
are you using a filter in this video? IDK if it's because your lighting is really soft but the color in this video is SO warm and appealing!
Great info here. And yeah that corporate money is GOOD 💰 money. Got our first $50k+ gig doing internal video for a corporate entity. But like you guys said only 50% of that is profit.
Really love your studio . looks so comfortable . Love all your camara gears )))
Keep doing more of these! Very informative for those starting out. Would it be possible to do a segment on "How Much Money Should You Charge For Motion Graphics Work?"
Holy crap the client paid $96,000?!! We're lucky enough to get $9,000! 0_0
This was super helpful!! Will watch the full vid now!
This was good. You never disappoint man.
Ha. I’m doing $500 commercials. 🤷🏻♂️
OMG, this was so helpful!!!! This question came up today while I was talking to another business person who does photo shoots. She said I charge too much for small business persons who have very small businesses/sole proprietorships. Seeing this, I understand why. She wouldn't have $10k. For people like me and her, $1k is a huge amt of cash. So I have to rethink my business model and evaluate if my target market needs tweaking...otherwise I won't make any money, even alone. I did ask someone else more experienced for help, but he didn't give me his way of charging. His scale is more like the example they gave here. Gives me something to shoot for! (Pun intended.)
I dig the background. Especially the retro Mac. Nice.
Thanks for sharing this. Two questions. Corbin mentioned having 50% profit for the business set aside but based on the numbers, where would that come from? Did he mean that you should double the project rate or is that amount supposed to come from the director pay (since he was paying himself)? The second question is was the editing included in his director rate or did he mean for that to come from post production? I've done a couple projects where, like your second example, i played all roles including the editor and animator in post but did bring along an assistant. Did corbin mean to add the editor in and forget to by accident? The overall project rates make sense I was just asking for clarification on those two questions.
I think I agree with Dub in that it should be across the board. Because, what you are essentially factoring in is company growth. People tend not to factor this in. For example, were you to increase the crew size, it's not merely just doubling hours, because now there is coordination work, and backend /admin/ payroll etc that needs to support it. So even though he worded it as Profit, it actually should be thought of as margin or markup, which will give you some money you can pile back into growing your company.
Thank you for this! Topic not touched on enough, maybe because not many people know
Where do you find clients who are willing to spend $15000 on a three day production? I'm a professional videographer since 1990 and my experience is that virtually all clients are CHEAPSKATES with no appreciation for the talent, skill, effort and time it takes to produce quality commercial videos. Their budget is usually something less than it would cost to rent the gear and do the job themselves. I would love to know where to find clients with a realistic budget.
you need to live in a different country mate. Where I live directors/dops charge 2k per day
That advice would make sense if I said I live in India or Bangladesh. But, I live in southern California, USA. The rates here should be at the higher end of the scale compared to just about anywhere else. The truth is, clients here want to pay rates that would be unrealistically low even for India or Bangladesh!
Bitching about pricing is nothing new. It happens in EVERY industry. But frankly the solution is pretty simple... 1.) Target your services to clients who have a budget. 2.) Learn to differentiate and communicate your value. 3.) If the potential client does not have a budget that fits your services then they are NOT your client. Move on. In every industry there is a wide range of products and service. Ford is not Ferrari and they are not after the same customer. There are Walmart customers and there are Nordstroms customers. Both of these companies make money but you have to decide where your services fit and who you want as a client.
Lee Love Exactly. Nothing wrong with firing your client - I've been working for myself in a different industry, but it still applies. Or if you know some kids that need the experience more than the money (and you know they will do an OK job) tossing it their way can get you friends in both houses.
The money in any creative field is being able to sell ideas first, then technical skills and talent second. You have to stay far, far away from small businesses and really just gear yourself towards commercial endeavors. There are a lot of people doing it and making a living, but you need to be damn good. It's all about vision + style + strategy + execution. People will of course cheapskate out on corporate video or videography because they really just need you to press buttons. But if you come up with a branding idea that can actually bring them revenue, you're on to something. Go to ad school. Work your way into creative agencies that charge these rates + media fees and see how different the process is.
I've read your blog (I think) and seen your work. Stay away from small businesses and the dreaded start ups until you get a big client. But to get that big client, you also need to be an idea person that has a clear strategy and creative process in mind.
Great video, great!!!!!!
Amazing, super helpful video! Thanks for this.
When say someone is starting out into video production. These are some ways to look at a structure (this is internal and wont be shared with your clients of-course). Im talking with primarily one man bands in mind who do promo video work etc. Because a large portion of us here fall under that category. The video company, huge team kind of setup etc that the OP is talking about, those kinda guys wont be hanging around youtube for ideas on how to do their pricing im sure. Its after you know pricing techniques welllll enough is where you grow to that level.
OPTION 1 : Say an entrepreneur (videographer) invests about $6000 onto his video production equipment. Now if you charge a certain sum for production, you may only be recovering the equipment cost you invested. And when hit the $6000 mark, your equipment already needs revamping or upgrades. So some banking people suggest that you should be able to recover the entire amount you invested in a business within the first year at least. Or 2 years maybe. And after that what you charge is profit or income (in which there will be running expenses too) but anyway you get the picture. So some work for a year or 2 to recover their investment and then later on whatever comes thru is for running expenses + profit. Whats your comment on this revenue model ? Or how do you guys look at it.
OPTION 2 : Do you think of the equipment as your asset (not consider it) and whatever comes from day 1 is your profit/income and you set aside a small portion on each project towards equipment renewal which will accrue after say 3-5 years in a fixed deposit etc. Then after 5 years that corpus will pay for your new equipment and/or upgrades.
OPTION 3 : Some finance people say to take what you invested and divide it by say 10. So 10% will be your equipment recovery cost. So in 10 projects you should recover that equipment cost. Because that 10 projects is assumed as the life of that equipment. This is hypothetical so don't get too hooked onto the actual numbers and say the life of a camera/lenses/lighting/edit system is more than just 10 projects. Its all relative and for someone doing it as a side business 10 projects may pan out in maybe 2 or even 3 years. For another individual they may complete 10 projects in a year. So the base is 1 year or 10 projects (whichever comes first). Within this period you should recover that equipment investment. So the videographer charges 10% or 1/10th as his equipment recovery charge. So $600 will be that part. That is nothing but life of equipment and wont help you a penny. The rest that you charge above this will cover your COB (cost of doing business) and your profit. So cost of business is what you spend on your office/electricity/running expenses/mktg/advertising etc. This is something you can assimilate over a year and divide that by your number of projects. So say $200 overhead for that. The rest is your profit that you charge.
Dont complicate with taxes etc, we can get into that later and it varies by each country. But this is the backbone of charging a client. What do you guys feel. Because you can end up doing productions at a certain fee and then only after 3 years realize that you only recovered what you invested and by then the equipment is dated (which happens to be the current superfast trend) thereby realizing that you ended up doing free work, for just passion. Some might even be ok with that, if they are working a day job and do this just for pleasure, knowing that their hobby investments are paid for. But for someone wanting to "earn a profit" out of this then we need to go with something like option 3. So that in a certain number of projects you recovered the cost of equipment, which enables you to pay for some inflation alone and upgrade to new current equipment.
Deff gave me a better perspective on pricing, would love to hear more about licensing your work/usage terms.
Thanks guys, great job!
I was thinking of shooting behind the scenes and Day in the life videos fir local artist but I don’t know how much to charge... what are your thoughts. The videos would be for RUclips
SUPER helpful- thanks for this video!
This was very, very helpful. Thanks, you guys!
In Corbyn's example is the DP rate with or with out camera package? if it's with camera package what is included? And what is a "standard" camera package for most DP's, camera op's, shooters consist of? Not looking for types of cameras, but in that camera package does that included lenses (Primes, zooms, still lenses with an adapter) media, tripod, batteries, etc... Another great video @DSLR Video Shooter
This video is very valuable respect to you brother.
Thanks for sharing! Can you break down the 50% structure a little more?
I've been struggling with this for the longest. I used to go hourly rates until someone asked if I had a "package" and I completely blanked out... actually this happened last week 😂 😂
When it comes to hitting that 50% profit mark, is that 50% on top of whatever your total is, or 50% of your total?
Great educational video for beginners !
In time brother. Thanks a bunch for this.
Wow, this video is so on point. Just this morning i was asked how much i charge :D
The breakdown is good info for sure. Still seems too low based on 3-5 days of work with that many people. But depends on where you live I suppose as well. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for this very important video, so do have an idea how much should I charge for 3 min Tv segment? Including editing. I do all the pre/post production my self using my gears.
This is super helpful!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!
Solid content, I thought all the info was spot on.
SO HELPFUL!!!!
Hello Caleb how are you? Thanks for this. I like to guess lighting setups I would like to guess what type of lighting you're using right now for this talkin head portion. I'm thinking it's a fluorescent daylight softbox with a greeted modifier. Let me know if I'm close. Peace
Great topic! Not a lot of people cover this.
How about just editing someone’s vlog that’s 5-6 minutes long ? Any tips on pricing? How about an edit on a 10 min vlog? Hope to hear from you! Thanks for the vid!
honest and straightforward!!!!gj
Love this talk!
beautiful video!very helpfull,thanks a lot
I've learned just to charge hourly.. don't work for less than it's worth it to you, otherwise you get stuck on a budget and end up spending way more time on a project when a client starts nitpicking and wanting something perfect.
FilmIn5D a project cost estimate, is usually based on an hourly/day rate in the first place (like what these guys did). My quote usually includes three rounds of changes, each round with an hourly rate attached. When changes start happening I keep the client in the loop if their changes are going beyond the quoted hours. Clients normally have a deadline and ballpark budget, so getting away without quoting more than your hourly rate is a tough one when most clients aren't going to know how long things take (I'm saying an hourly rate doesn't really tell them anything).
this is great and all but what about those of us who are just starting out and dont have clients with 50K$ budgets?
I will never hire a DP that exceed my fee as a director for a corporate gig. He didn’t value the workload from pitching to the client, preview and deliverables. The directors credibility will determine to win the gig or not.
I think the DP's rate in this example includes gear.
Vanguard Media and Entertainment, Inc. oh ok if thats the case it makes sense
Thanks man, that was really helpful!!
Hey Caleb. I am a 15 year old filmmaker who kinda does it all. I have a G7 and 25mm 1.7 lens but it’s time for me to invest in some serious glass. Should I invest in panasonic glass for a future gh5 or sony glass with an a7iii? I’m torn because I need autofocus lenses but not necessarily afc just to grab focus quickly, so I don’t really want to adapt but if adapting is good I guess I would go for it, but i’m looking at like 2k budget. Any thoughts?
Love your videos! Keep up the good work!
Umm, what should I charge if I have medium experience and am a one man crew? Also, where's a good place to find clients?
What do you think of the Nikon D5500 for shooting videos or am I better off to rent a better camera? Thanks!