Why Don't I Just Make A Few Pedals?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Answering questions streamed live on April 2, 2022 - this one is about why I don't just crank out some more pedals. Easy peasy!
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- Intro Music by Fran Blanche -
Fran's Science Blog - www.frantone.co...
FranArt Website - www.contourcors...
Fran: (Twenty minutes of reasoned detailed explanation why not)
Teh Internetz: So...you're saying there's a chance?
Yep the "Cathy argument", if someone says "so what you're saying is" the answer is always "no".
"I don't enjoy doing it". that's enough reason right there for not doing it.
Pretty much this.
Totally agree. Lack of desire.
Hey Fran!!
The quality you describe is a boutique pedal.
Look at the old “Big Muffs”… that case cost about $1, total.
If I buy a pedal, I buy it for the sound… I put it on the floor and stomp my foot on it, and, often, tape my knobs when I find that sweet spot!!
I understand the pride and love you have for the Frantone… but there is a reality… No Secondary Manufacture is going to have the buy in that you’re looking for.
The electronics are everything… the rest is window dressing.
I’m going to bring up the modular idea again.
‘Frandrive’, ‘Franflange’, ‘Franchorus’, even ‘Franloop’… Standard small Eurorack and select modules, and expand as you wish!!
(BTW… register those names!!!)
Lowering expectations is tough, but reality is a double barreled crap storm!!
Stay Safe 😷 & Peaceful ☮️!!!
omfg frantone eurorack modules would honestly be so neat
I agree
Could not agree more---Frandrive and Franloop would be incredible! More Fran, please!
Yes ! Eurorack would be amazing and would seem ro be much easier to manufacture.
Manufacturing is much more difficult and complex than people realize. Details, details, details.
Especially at the level of quality that Fran made. If all people want is the sound of the pedal I'm sure that there people out there that have DIYed Frantone clones. But people are paying 1000s for Frantone pedals because of the quality of the build.
Many year back I worked on a project where the front panel was to be a casting. The casting took a lot of second operations to get the fine details and the surface ready for paint. It turned out to be cheaper to just have a machine shop start with a big slab of aluminum and machine the whole thing out of that. It took more metal being removed but far less "machinist time". The manual labor of setting up was far less on the big slab of aluminum than to grip the casting and machine places to clamp it, then move it to be clamped on those places to do the actual machining of one side and then flip it to do the other.
Yes, for low volumes it makes good sense to simply mill the excess away, and if the designer is any good he will find a way to use the left over pieces as well. Do remember a friend, a tool and die maker, making some bushes, where the starting material was a 50kg block of cast bronze, and the final product was under 1kg, with most of the material landing up as chips in the lathe and milling machine, to make this thin wall complex bushing. Took him a month to make that one, using as details the broken old one, and removing the wear from it, and making all the oversize sections, to fit it back in the machine it came from with "as new" tolerances.
I spent years in manufacturing and product engineering and understand your experience -- however, the problems in manufacturing are due to design constraints set upon them. Based on your process description: while customers view the graphics as attractive, even though the cases are certainly a source of exceptional pride for you as the artist, the reason customers buy the pedals is for the sounds they provide. Start with an industry basic pedal box and put the artwork costs into a single graphics plate that is adhered to the top of the pedal during final assembly with adhesive plus the controls bolted through.That eliminates most of the areas you and the factories have struggled with yet still provides an artist's canvas while getting the tones to more guitarists and the pedal used on more music recordings. Before dismissing the idea, consider it the same as the process Gibson uses to build guitars: The Gibson logo and Les Paul signature are inlaid in a black holly veneer they glue on the face of the headstock. Focus on how you can cleverly design your product for manufacturing success.
Is that something that Fran wants to put her name on? There's a level of pride she wants to be able to take in things that say Frantone. Yeah, you can always engineer the cost out of things, but that makes the product shittier and shittier. That's not what Frantone is about.
Having been a custom Painter/finisher-I fully understand your points !-Having been an Air conditioning Mechanic-I understand the issues with solid components. having been a Tube Amp collector, a song writer- a Guitarist / Bassist, and band leader- I see what you are saying- so , your last Arena of possibilities reside in the software Realm. Fran tone circuit chains, in a Frantone Virtual Universe ! with unique Frantone characteristics ! The end of physical circuits is at hand .
I second the idea of Frantone audio plugins. That would be super cool. No physical limitations of components and shipping and painting and.....
Just no Ilock license management and I'm all for it haha.
It's just a matter of perfectionism. I also catch myself at trying to set my goals way higher than I can, leading up to taking up projects and not finishing them because "it's not ready yet" blah blah.
Just thought about a different process: using an anodized Hammond box, then machining and laser-engraving all the markings and graphics on it, which strips the surface and reveals the unpainted "core", (inspired by Manley :)), and applying a clear finish e.g. by powdercoating.
Fran I would love a real Peach Fuzz. I am not worried about the case being perfect. I just want the sound. Write the controls with a Sharpie and I would be delighted. If you have the parts to make one in Franlab I would buy one. Serious offer US $500 cash in the mail.
I would be grateful for a verified schematic. I'd figure everything else out.
Totally get it. I used to work for a small company that hand-built our own product, and every time we tried to outsource, it was a disaster. And having built a couple of pedal kits recently, yeah - the PCB is the easy part!
its cost me close to 2 grand to set up a paint room in my shed with proper air treatment, dont blame you for not wanting to build one again Fran.
Having watched to the end, it seems that there are two incompatible goals - making more "real Frantone" pedals, in all their deeply shiny finish and utter perfection of decals, which no doubt the owners treasure, and "getting them out there" so that people can actually plug them into guitars and amps and *play*. To do *that* requires that "new Frantone" pedals are a more spartan and simply-constructed affair.
At a guess, the people who would value them as musical instruments would be happy with a Fran-made PCB in a simple box. As long as they have "that sound". Or even, use a transparent acetate box, so the owner can show off the real Fran-ness inside! Ok, maybe not, then you have "wiring harness pressure" :-)
I am defiantly one for more of an austere, or as you say spartan manufacturing. If I want something to do something, I'd rather it be a tool than a toy.
My love! Fran I'll manufacture anything you want! 😍
Am I hearing slight echo with delay and tone squeezing or just tripping due to butterflys inside me?
Fran: Seeing those photos of your previous paint booths and your beliefs make me want a Frantone pedal even though I rarely use pedals. I fully support a name that believes and stands by their quality. Full and total build quality is NOT something you find in products these days.
I’ve seen it Aerospace Vendor’s work, but that’s not the same caliber of End User.
For drilling raw enclosures these days you'd use a small cnc machine.
For finishing, pedal builders, even small part timers and hobbiests use powder coating and occasionally anodizing these days. Mid sheen and low gloss finishes are on trend, though. I think to get a durable high gloss, and orange peel free finish, you'd have to find a spray painter in the prestige car panel repair and restoration industry. Finding one who loves what he/she does and wants to do a great job for you will be the challenge.
As for silk screening, well that is a dying art. Direct printing with uv inks is what most pedal builders do. Again, finding a local who "gets it", would be the challenge.
Just glancing over the pedal display in any guitar store, you will get a sea of powder coat and direct print. I also look over my own modest collection of vintage and modern pedals and none have, or had, a high gloss finish. I'm afraid I'm not surprised there's no large manufacturer who's willing to do mirror finishing and precision silk screening.
I love your channel Fran, so just keep up the lab content mate!
I'm an artist and a craftsman and I totally get where you're coming from with the perfectionist approach, but as a gear head I don't care what it looks like, it's the sound that counts. Put the electronics in a plain steel stamped out case with a dial and a footswitch and I'm happy. ALL my gear is used and abused, the decals on my pedals are gone within months from the hammer they get and I just don't care. There's a time and a place for perfectionism and footpedals are neither in my humble opinion. I'd rather have the chance to own the electronics inside one of your pedals than the shiny perfectly painted box...and I suspect many MANY more people would feel the same.
What about selling the internals as a kit to build your own pedal in whatever box you can get your hands on?
The tone of what Fran is saying here is familiar to me as a good friend of mine was a real life entrepreneur (and there really aren't that many of them). It boils down to "been there - done that" and "time to move on to something new". I am quite sure that back in her pedal making days she was extremely immersed in the excitement and all the problem solving and the entire process of creating something new. But making something like "Frantone pedals - the Classic" all over again would certainly seem like workaday drudgery unless there was some really new and big twist to the effort. It would largely be a "me too" product, even if the "me too" related to her own product most directly. Entrepreneurs aren't usually "me too" people. They want to find something new, a new niche. I guess Fran's notable imprints have been Frantone products and now RUclips. What will be next? I don't know. But I'll wager she comes up with something. That's what entrepreneurs do.
I totally understand all your frustrations. I had requests to manufacture a small quantity of custom electronics I designed for an intervalometer for the film industry and the price was thousands per unit before I could deliver them, so I resolved that it was simply not worth my time and effort and just cancelled the project after having built just 3 prototypes.
In such a saturated market the pedals that really stand out are those well suited for synths and sound design as well as guitar. like my Strymon Nightsky and EHX Eddy
You have a high standard when it comes to the pedals you made and you should. The going rates of your pedals show that people want that kind of high quality. If you do a thing, do it on your terms and be proud of your work.
Having high standards these days is lost on a lot of people and that shows as well. How many of the pedals made these days will still be around and working in ten years? Much less, how many will be commanding the kind of money that your pedals are going for? Not a lot if you ask me.
Keep on being awesome!
Fran - love your dedication to what you do. Long after you're gone - your products will carry your name and reputation to generations of guitarists in the future. That's about as close to immortality as anyone can hope to get. As a retired engineer with a career in NPD - I had to smile at this video - can't think how many times I've told the same basic story. Had some successes - more failures - and struggled daily with the rules and paradoxes of the mfg. game. The customer wants good, fast, and cheap - you have to tell them to choose 2 and then break your as* to even provide that. And you're always walking the quality/schedule/revenue tightrope - and falling off. I must admit - I don't miss it a bit - but when it works, it's a beautiful thing.
Ah, the Triangle of Engineering. It's as fundamental as the mass, energy, momentum and charge preservation principles, LOL.
I hardly believe "people" even take notice of the equipment artists use. It's the players themselves that covet the product. The crowd hears a distortion pedal. The player sees a Cream Puff and is smiling every single time he/she stomps on it and is proud of their investment.
It's a shame manufacturers don't have the patience for the details Fran requires to keep Frantone alive. But I'm also proud of her for not selling out just to make a buck, sacrificing what it means to be called a Frantone pedal.
I just found this and I have extensive experience in finishes. This includes water base, oil base, epoxy, lacquer, automotive, furniture, cabinetry, guitars and sign painting. Keeping a paint room clean isn't too hard. The booth I used, at a cabinet shop, I had to deal with lots of dust from the cabinet builders. I'd sweep the floor in front of the booth, close the door and turn on exhaust fan and blow everything down toward the fan. Blow the surface off your project while using a clean rag and this keep most dust off till you get finished. Easy, just don't turn your gun pressure too high or you'll get a lot of overspray. 25 to 30 psi is enough. I prefer a pressure pot for bigger jobs than a cup gun.
I'm a qualified painter.
Sand them quickly to knock down any crap. Send to powder coaters that do nice work. Have stickers made up in your design, sand the powder coat down dead flat with some 1000 grit wet, then apply your logo/design sticker. 2k clearcoat over the top of it all.
You don't want to paint again because you are used to doing it with a flawed process with old technology.
You could get some amazing stickers made up with whatever pattern you wanted, a couple of coates of of 2k clear and I think it would look amazing. I have done many...many little projects like this and it's not hard once you optimise the process
I remember you mentioning the Frantone pedal and thought cool!, now many years after I started watching youtube tech channels and came across your channel. You are the first live scientist/maker/inventor/musician (all rolled into one) that I ever encountered! It is terrible that you spoke in a loud voice and no "man" heard you. It make me think of Madam Curie , Ada Lovelace Hellen Keller, and Jane Pittman Woman of great indigence who were not recognized till after they past. keep going!
Sometimes the things in life that are your quote/unquote "destiny" in life are not exactly what you picture as your future. But the boutique pedal market is a fruitful place. "JHS pedals"- Josh Scott is your man,he has the care and respect "Frantone" deserves and needs to be resurrected if not he can plug you in to a company that WILL give it the respect and care it deserves. That's my suggestion for you Fran reach out to him unless you already have if your not familiar with him check out his channel. It's what makes the most sense to me. Hope that helps ❤️
Having dealt with these issues of painting we turned to powder coating. That process has a learning curve. But no volatile organics to deal with.
I'm genuinely bummed out i never collected Frantone pedals when i got my first guitar.
I remember browsing guitar sites and just seeing the affordability of all those cool effects i was like, "im gonna get this one, this one, etc." but i ended up getting a Peavy Vypyr as my first amp for a bunch of effects and I've never bought a pedal in all my years of amateur diddling. If id only known hoe much of a relic those pedals would be in less than 10 years time
Finish quality is HARD. I totally get it. I remember when I was a teenager and my brother was making clocks. He built fume-and-draft hoods to do his finishes. It was still an amazing pain in the tush to get the finishes done and give them a draft free, dust-free environment to set. And of course they needed five coats, so there were five chances to mess it up and get a bubble or something in the finish.
Just a thought: go for a bare-metal case, polished, all CNCed with the lettering engraved... yeah, a new look for tomorrow! I use the Pulsar method of PCB-- which finally works well. And remember, this is an easily disposable idea, I hope for your success is all.
Your right: The aesthetic dimension of a guitar pedal, is an important part of the experience, BUT 1) A bare not painted pedal is better than nothing. Though looks ARE important (I'm a painter and very visual and find myself very inspired by just the looks of some pedals, BUT ..) it's the sound that defines a pedal.
2) Why stick to that old aesthetic? Why not take a more stripped approach and create a new aesthetic? The best aesthetic ideas are grounded on necessity anyway. And it isn't just necessity: the new aesthetic will be an authentic expression of your evolution as a person and a builder.
Stick to your guns, Fran! It's got your name on it... it should have the quality you want and expect. So few products give a damn about that level of quality... so your take on it is truly refreshing. ❤❤❤
I just looked on the web and found close photos of a bunch of your (new at the time) pedals. The cases ARE great looking.
Link please?
As I get older I have less and less tolerance for VOCs.
I remember a while back I put on some black nail polish for a post punk show,. After I removed it with nail polish remover I was tasting a packing tape taste in my mouth for a day.
If I was in your position I'd do some Fran Tone kits for DIYers.
The DIY subculture has really taken off in the last 10 years.
People like me are paying $150-300 for high quality kits like CAPI 500 series modules and 4MS or Erica Erurorack.
I bought a Brooklyn overdrive from you awhile back and gave it to a guitar playing friend. He likes it, but plays about 95% acoustic (even though he's got a nice strat and a tele to wale on). Anyhow, in five years there's likely to be a nice Brooklyn for sale somewhere, I imagine. You're right to not start making pedals again. The investment you made in quality cannot be duplicated at a cost to mass-market, and I doubt any major manufacturer would be willing to pay the royalty you SHOULD get for your circuit designs. I get it. It's okay. I'm glad to have done my small part to diminish the scale of the loss you took in making pedals.
For a while, I worked with an older guy who was a guitarist. I mentioned Frantone to him. He said he envied those.
About to watch this. Had this exact question in my mind after learning about your history and the pedals. Surely you could still make them occasionally even if they don't sell. Surely there are folk out there willing to pay extra to own the "real thing". Then I started thinking about economies of scale, how the metal housings need to be ordered in bulk etc.
Interesting to hear what the reason actually is.
I hear you Fran. It's difficult to keep a one person pedal operation going and maintain high quality standards. Like you said, hiring out is a huge gamble for a small company, even with escrow. I've also had to junk or reject entire batches of custom enclosures when I've hired out powder coating & custom enclosure fabrication. Mainly due to bait and switch with the prototype samples. Seems to be more common with factories in Asia, but I've had it happen in US as well. I finally found a reputable manufacturer for custom enclosures in USA, but you have to pay a lot of $$$ to get the ball rolling, which many sole proprietors can't do. It takes a while to cover the investment of proper tooling setup or having dies made. If you can only afford small quantity, factories will charge you a retooling/setup fee each time, so better to have the money to mass produce. Luckily, when I had germanium transistors manufactured I worked out a buy back program for out of spec rejects. Without that deal, I never would have got past the engineering/prototyping stage. Incidentally, a lot of my rejected transistors which were sent back were sold off by the factory to another pedal company that advertised them as "NOS", new old stock. It was funny to see them charge more than I do for a pedal which had my rejected transistors in it.
There's still a lot of in house finishing & screen printing if you really want a particular finish like the FranTone pedals, or exacting vintage correct clones. I have a BA in fine arts printmaking, and prior work experience in classic car & scooter restoration. High quality painting and printing is relatively easy for me. It can take years to learn how to properly paint & screen print, or you'd have to hire out, which drives up prices. Even if you have the skill, it is illegal to use industrial solvents in a non industrial or mixed use zoned location. Even if your pedals are in production and in high demand, another factor many people don't realize is that, as one person, you can only build so many pedals, even with assembly line process. Of course, with the prices used FranTone pedals fetch, you could just arbitrarily jack up your prices to recover the setup costs, but that ~limits availability to blues lawyers. Pedals are meant to be used. You could consider a kickstarter to get things set up. Maybe people that really want your pedals AND can afford more than the starving musicians will donate? Something to consider if you are interested in building more Fran Tone pedals. Licensing is also a good option if you can find the right manufacturer.
Like you, I've had to move my entire business, several times. Eviction, arson fire, flood, and the wife demanding we move thousands of miles. It's very hard to build out a workspace and get a flow going like you had in your old lab, then pack everything up, move it, and set up in a new space. Keeping orders shipping on time during a move is stressful. No matter how good you pack, things will get broken by movers & when you have thousands of parts to reorganize you lose productivity. Losing my first shop on Sunset Blvd. due to an illegal eviction in 2013 was very hard because I'd only been in business for a few years, had completely remodeled the shop, & built a custom spray both with ventilation. It looked a lot like your old spray booth in this video. Luckily, they have rent control in LA. Rent is insanely high there. My rent was dirt cheap because the place was condemned when I agreed to rent it & I renovated it myself. The owner of the building died my first year in business. Her daughter, who was connected to local gangs, inherited the building. She tried to sell it, but the family blocked the sale. Then she tried to burn it down for insurance payout & I almost lost everything in the fire. Rather than using legal means to get me out, or simply just asking me to leave, the new owner's boyfriend threatened my life with a firearm, twice. Fun stuff. They ended up renting my shop as an apartment for four times as much after I completely renovated it. Never renovate something you don't own.
Long story short. There is a lot more to maintaining a high quality pedal business as a sole proprietor than most who haven't done it realize. I get a lot of emails of people requesting this or that pedal NOW, stating they'll pay whatever price I ask. Many don't realize you can't just stop current production & set everything up to to ONE pedal.
P.S. A tip to cut out VOC's when using enamel inks is to do your initial wash out with vegetable oil. Vegetable oil mixes will with most enamels, then you only need a little mineral spirits or other solvent screen wash to clean the residue before it dries in the screen.
Such a kewl & precise explanation. Brilliant!
How about a ‘Frankit’?
You supply the board and the casing, components/instructions etc... we do the soldering and assembly work. A bit like the fun projects a lot of us did as kids. Just a thought
Redesign the case so you can produce them effortlessly, remove the barriers?
In the land of the blind, the one eyed person is royalty. Just sharpie on the basics + a maybe autograph and let the buyer assume the upkeep.
Hate to say with all the cheap electric effect tone pedals it's hard to compete. My son just bought one with 140 effects made of metal with an app to download beats tones and sound effects. Frantones on another level but most won't pay more for less features. Some will but it's a limited market most kids want quick electric pleasure delivered in a day from Amazon 😉👍
Yeah that's not her demographic.
I always sand/buff up the die cast aluminium case and then let them sit in a container of acetone. Then I dry them and hit them with a coat of spray putty. This is the sanded back until
back to base metal. On goes a coat of undercoat then wet sand. next goes couple of coats of top colour followed by clear coat with wet sanding in between. Very time consuming but it gives that ultra smooth glass like finish you speak of. For one offs, built to order and low volume the cost/time can be justified and profitable. If you were producing in volume, you'd be broke real quick.
A friend of mine converted a household oven and an industrial size filing cabinet into a powder coating paint station. We use it for bicycle frames and other components. Works extremely well, lasts forever. Can send you specifications if you want.
Fran isn't looking for solutions to a problem, Fran is looking for wish fulfillment. See prior rants about rent in Philadelphia, the loss of cheap basically abandoned industrial space for pennies, why owning isn't a possibility etc. Fran won't be satisfied with anything that doesn't cater to her specific desires.
Another excellent video. Thanks Fran
Life is too short not to do what makes us happy and fulfilled. and I think part of that comes as a result of peace, serenity, security, and so forth. As a founder of several businesses, and i like to think a kindred spirit, I feel privileged that I have come to the same conclusions you have about business / entrepreneurship (I have watched most of your videos on this subject this evening as I have reached a crisis in one of my businesses this past couple months which has caused me to shut it down essentially). I think all successful entrepreneurs more or less come to the same place. It is easy if you are unscrupulous, but when you actually care it is about the hardest thing in the world. That being said, I think the Gods cursed us when they built us an Entrepreneurs. being a pioneer is an often thankless, lonely task, and sometimes far worse. But the thrill of systematizing a dream is one of the most beautiful, fulfilling, empowering feelings in the world. While also being thankless place in Society (maybe about 5o% of the time). It is like a can't live without / can't live with it sort of situation. I dont know what is worse - the excruciating process of being a Pioneer (Entrepreneur) - or letting a dream go dormant, dying and spending the rest of one's life wondering what could have been. Every person has to make that decision for themselves. And that's okay. I will say that history has shown that people who have a comeback often are better received the 2nd time. Especially when they have already accomplished a great thing. there is a lot of wisdom to "Dont die with your music still in you." - I think that applies to someone of any age. And sometimes I think, you just have to do it out of Spite. Especially as a queer person in society - which is probably where a lot of the pushback comes from, I hate to say it. Society has always been trying to push us off into the outer orbit. Sometimes, it just has to be done for ourselves - so we know that we still are in our power, and sometimes for the sheer delight of showing people we won't let them push us around.
Not that I think I'll change your mind, but for a small run at home, anodizing would probably be a better approach than paint since you don't need such a tightly controlled environment for it to produce good results. The only part that really stinks is the acid bath, and that's with sulfuric acid, there may be less stinky forms of acid one could use.
I think a lot of comments have merit, yet what almost everyone is ignoring is your best interests and wishes. You’re not just assembling a pedal. You’re doing everything in every single step of manufacturing, from design, R&D, to assembly, QC and finally being satisfied to sell an extremely well made product with confidence.
The truth is, if you broke down the hourly rate of this process vs the retail price you sell a pedal, you’ll likely quit doing it. Sadly, love and passion alone won’t pay bills.
I think you do you. Everyone will have suggestions, and while all of them are valid points to dwell on, they’re not your goal and what you desire.
People who've never run a business have no idea of the 99 percent of work under the surface.
This paint process is identical to lacquering a brass instrument, even the acid bath.
I don't know how it is where you are, but now in California there are more restrictions for having a paint booth, and emitting/controlling the spurious paint which is sucked up into the filtering system. To make it cost effective of course, if you must order enclosures, how many must you have made to make it cost effective? 100? 1000? 10,000? With the circuit boards it's the same thing. Then the electronic components of which such as electrolytic capacitors have a shelf life. etc. etc.
If you have the enclosures made over seas, and the painting done over seas this too creates problems. It's no longer anything like walking down the hall of the big musical instrument manufacturing facility to point out changes which need to be made.
It's also turned into a Boutique market. The person in the service department of Hammond USA has mentioned this many times. Aside from it's other Hammond USA manufactures two Leslie effects pedals.
Maybe there is a Frantone lover over at the Harley Davidson factory in York, PA. That paint shop could do the job.
I can't quite understand why painting is such a problem, every car painter should be able to do it in reasonable and robust quality i would think. You could do surface pre-treatment and sanding yourself without a realy complex workshop 😁
Instead of screen printing, I would think about digital printing, a lot has developed there in recent years 😉
Chris
The problem is the cast box. The surface of the mild steel of a car body is far easier to work with. All of the steel surface has the same attraction to the paint so if you put paint on it, the surface tension makes it get smooth.
@@kensmith5694 epoxy sealers and primers are a thing. They're designed to make paint adhere to an imperfectly prepped surface. Auto body guys know all about epoxy sealers and primers, and they use them to get perfect paint finishes day-in day-out.
@@kensmith5694 Yes, that's exactly why I said eventually do the preparatory work yourself. I've already painted some of these aluminum housings with a spray can, even that works if you sand it down well beforehand. I didn't know the idea of putting it in solvent - I'll remember it for my DIY projects. You don't need a large workshop for the preparatory work, a good random orbit sander, a decent vacuum cleaner and a workbench with a few jigs to clamp it are enough
Enclosures have always been the hardest part of any electronic project. I've even used PCBs as front panels to get the holes and legends in the right place. Not quite as nice as a 'proper' panel but much easier.
You can get paint printers like laser printers that you put the housing into the printer and the printer comes down and applies the finish color by color, layer by layer.. like a robot silkscreen. Keeley effects uses one for most of his/
I found your channel from the Lumitime clock video, had no idea I was listening to THE Fran Blanche! Absolute legend
I mean you could sand cast the pedal cases, have them low powered sand blasted, then powder coated by a powder coat painter. The painter could include your logo by using heat resistant tape and removing it before the parts are done. I think you could make the pedals.
A really clear explanation of why manufacturing has so much hidden cost. Do you think kits might be a way forward? I’m thinking of Moog’s Etherwave, where they supplied circuit board and case parts, but all wood lacquering and fitting was done by the user? Obviously this wouldn’t be a Frantone, but it could be a Frankit.
A "FranKit" would be pretty good.
Fran just posted a video about this. Short answer is “no”
Though I play, I think considering ones self an "aficionado" or an "enthusiast" is just physically exhausting. Therefore, i am unrelated to what you make, especially when it comes to your music because I love when you learn, I could care less what makes you popular. Im not sure what musical knowledge spectrum to align with if any, but its one that I can accept and participate in without the slightest hint ego, and that means a lot.
Even if you do get a company willing to make them under license, how will that fit with your quality standards? Will any company insure that each and every pedal case is 110% perfect? And if not, how would you feel knowing that some of the new pedals would not be up to your original standard?
That's why she'd need to find a company whose standards are AT LEAST as high as her own. If not, then she'd have to be involved in day-to-day quality control, which would be a full time job in itself. Based on this video and others, that's a job that she has no interest in doing.
Fran, I think you should make a series of popular quality pedals and see how it works.
You can label them with all information you think is neccessary and clash your perception of your clients with the market existing out there after so many people meet you here on youtube.
Ask people about recommendations which cases they find best, use the platform to reach out to manufacturers who can deliver the popular quality. You have fansm they might help.
After you do this and it fails your story reception will be much different than now.
Please dont threat my post as critique. Its an opinion. I would do it this way. Honestly.
Good luck!
I get it. I did the architecture for an Aerospace Vendor’s new Clean Room.
As time goes by, the AQMD, OSHA, EPA and the other alphabet soup agencies are limiting the allowable VOC’s in paints and painting chemicals.
I'm sure you're thought of this... auto body shop. They paint things candy apple every day, understand metal surface prep, and you can prob see examples of the work they do.
It's always really interesting to hear how stuff is made, and the real trials in getting something like this done.
Ok, that explanation makes it totally clear why you wouldn't do it yourself. Holy cow that level of work is crazy!
yes why not I will buy one of each you make
Fran, I disagree with you! they’re buying the name, not what kind of paint is on the chassis. You could have a plain aluminum box with your logo etched in and as long as it’s your electronics, people will buy it. Like they always say, “Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good” or in this case GREAT.
Peter, I disagree with you. If I find an used Frantone pedal, I'm not buying it because of the electronics....there are "thousands" of ways to make a pedal electronically and so many can make them....you can make them at home if you want! The desirability of her pedals would be how much effort her company "Frantone" put into making the product to the best of their ability. I could have a board full of pedals that all look janky and ugly but sound fantastic....but if there was a Frantone on that pedal board (with it's quality of build and finish) with the others, it's going to stand out.
If it's just about the electronics, then what's the added value of it being a Frantone? Just get a clone (Franclone? ;), different brand, or build your own.
Like Fran said, she's put so much blood, sweat and tears into Frantone to make it into the high-quality product she envisioned, that lowering that standard would result in something that isn't really a Frantone anymore.
I agree with Peter. Fran should let her fans decide if they want the simple finish. Thats it. If they complain or not buy it - ok. No loss there. If they buy - great.
The attitude of make it perfect or not at all is wrong. If the frantone quality must be so high so it does not exist it is practically gone.
Sometimes you need to let something go to have the rest of it back.
@@jasonbrindamour903 Oh, good, you’re reinforcing the idea that she shouldn’t make more pedals…. nice going.
For one of my own products the functionality and cost outweighs by an order of magnitude the paint and finish. It's about the same size of a pedal and uses PP3's etc, so I got a chinese company to CNC a nice low cost anodized Alu enclosure, and the front panel I laser cut/engrave myself from transparent acrylic. Nobody has EVER complained about the quality, in fact it looks kinda neat! The only aspect I might agree with Fran on is that her pedals have to sit alongside others on the same board......however, Fran seems stuck on her current design and can't see past it, but I see an opportunity to completely re-design the enclosure and call them Version 2.....a nice marketing point.
Stupid question because I'm sure you have, but I wonder if you've talked with Josh Scott?
Hi Fran, just wondered if you had ever thought about offering the pedal internals as a DIY kit for folks to assemble into their own cases? I imagine a lot of the parts would be off the shelf, with maybe a custom PCB? As others have said here, the players are after the sound, not necessarily the looks (says he, singing with a Shure Super 55 instead of an sm58, just for the looks!).
She's discussed kits in the past, the margins are pretty much non-existent and actually producing kits is a lot more labour intensive than most people realise (I've put together simple kits in hundred-off quantities for conferences, I'd never want to do it as a job), in short you're more likely to lose money on kits than making money on them.
Could you not outsource the painting to a specialist automotive paint shop? The kind that do super-custom jobs for obsessive car collectors?
It certainly eludes people on just how much bespoken prototypes take to build to yield what would be a modestly priced commercial product in quantity.
22 m8nutes and whole plate of bacon and eggs later, no frantone because Francine has to be perfect
Nor will I ever be seeing one.
Hey Fran I enjoy your videos and I’m listening to your experience with manufacturing pedals .
what about selling the electronics only populated board or in kit form ?
What’s sad about the music industry as a player on a gig you’re not making a lot of money as a musician you probably have another job and playing for the love of it. But when it comes time to buy instruments and devices 200 here 300 there it’s brutal. So I wonder how many folks like myself would be willing to put the board in a case solder a few switches and jacks and be happy because the end result is that sound. Also maybe just sell the case that they can work on themselves so another words just supplying parts that’s a big business. I’m looking to come up with a river board I’m a harmonica player so something small so I see there’s a couple reverb modules one can purchase and add a few discrete components to make this thing work in the module is 20 bucks few resistors passengers diode‘s pot. Anyways just a thought… Ken
She answered the bit about kits right after in stream, ruclips.net/video/TTvQ_gZg5LU/видео.html - They aren't any easier, it's a lot of work and after sales support.
Try to find a new design that supports new modern materials, take a look at the synthesizer modular boutique scene maybe you get inspired to build a fran tone 2.0 lineup.
I myself don't care at all what the case looks like. I would buy one for purely for the sound it produces. After all it gets stomped on with your grimy shoes in the end. So most people buy them and never use them for fear of scratching the paint?
Comparing a pedal to Saturn 5 ! Its just a fuzz box and what do they look like after a year on tour ? If they still look great then they aint being used get over it.
Yes Fran, just wave your magic soldering pen and POOF a pedal appears! 🤣
Excuses, excuses... Oh. Ohhh. Whaa? Ooph. Uhhu. Hmm. Oh.
What a great explaination, thank you! :)
This sounds really out there, but have you considered a completely different martial? One that is tough (I have a watch made of it), its finish is already there and can be machined, and is reflective of contemporary environmental considerations - Bamboo. Tests, structure assessment and development would have to be done to see if it's 'stomp proof'. FranBam and FranBoo sound good to me. I've been involved in small and my own companies all my life(nearly 70 now), and I feel your pain. All the best, Beamer.
It might be possible to get a generic footswitch and put a Frantone circuit in it. It will sound exactly the same as a proper Frantone pedal but it won't be Frantone.
Sounds like it's time for a better mold release.
Would people want a Frantone-L, a finished board you need your own case for (3d print, generic project box,etc.).
I worked at BBC Engineering in Chiswick and just making a single PCB could take an afternoon with all the different stages and that was from being handed the design sheet cel from another department.
I totally agree with you about painting your casings, a never ending job with often frustrating results. Aluminium is the worse metal to paint. The best solution if available for small batches, would be sending the pre-drilled casings to be anodized. There are different colors to chose from than the standard silver or black, I have seen gold, blue, and red, great looking colors. Anodized aluminium is a very durable finish. For the writings on the box, a personalized sticker decal could complete the box.
I guess it's like taking up flyfishing - that first trout costs about $2000 per pound. Your thousandth fish is finally cheaper than buying it.
One idea might be to teach how to build a pedal. Do it with your patreons. Release it as open source.
Got to respect your dedication to the principles of what made frantone such a desirable product today.
I'll admit I hadn't fully appreciated the complexities. A well reasoned argument if why small scale production isn't an option.
I do disagree about outsourcing the paint though, a friendly local car body shop would be used to the mirror finish you're aiming for.
You assume that the car paint place can do work that a person will examine at inches away.... The reality is different. As I said...
@@FranLab Your telling me that high end car paint shops dont look inches away ? your off your head.
@@FranLab yes, absolutely, I assume that.
Car paint place I deal with wouldn't dream of giving a finish that wasn't 100% from inches away. They take as much pride in perfection as you do.
Guess you have had a worse experience.
As I say, respect your argument and reasoning - the other reasons you explained make the paint issue irrelevant anyway.
Hi Fran, any idea where one could get this alphanumeric "nixie" tube that you've got on your desk?
It seems to be very rare and cost an arm!
Someone gave it to her - look through the channel history and you'll find an article about it. Yes, they're very rare.
I am assuming that the pedal enclosure is a die cast aluminum box.
So why not powder-coat it?
These days powder-coating can be super scuff and wear resistant and any color.
As to the printing, a pad printer would do the job cheaply, accurately and neatly - also with scuff resistant inks.
One of the plus points about powder is that the heat-curing lets the powder "level" out and it can be used to cover some pretty nasty die casting imperfections.
In fact a light sand blasting before coating would make the powder coating stick like $h1t to a wool blanket.
The holes could be done on a small inexpensive CNC router using a step drill to allow for different diameter holes. (led's, pots and switch)
This could be done on a jig that is 10 or 12 up which saves time (and money) and you could mill your own pcb's
And there are probably more than enough knowledgeable followers near to you who would jump at the chance to help you set it all up.
Get the brand up and going again - whats to loose?
I think you are overestimating how much pedal buyers (I am one) care about the finishing process.
Love your work but it seams like this is a self defeating line of thought.
Very instructional, shows a genuine boutique level love and quality. Why not trying to get the case work to your exact standard done in a not too far low cost country like Mexico ?
I wish I had the money to setup a FranLab-NJ, with all the steps and all the people needed to let you churn out Frantone pedals. I want the money that would let me lose money on this, until everyone accepts the correct way to do things. >_
Herblock's Law: "If it's good they'll stop making it"
The paint anomaly is loving called "fish eye".. But you knew that :) And yes, it's a $#^&!!
These are your babies, they and their quality are important to you. Nothing wrong with that. If you do license them out then you lose a lot of control over them and they become mass market junk unless you spend a fortune policing it. The other choice is for you to be the manufacturer, bring on the painter and silk screeners, but then you need the volume to make that work and you need to find the good people with the same standards. So... yeah, it's a game of compromise any way you go.
Why not anodize aluminum and use a laser to etch instead of silk screen no finish needed.
What about Sweetwater, they make Butike pedals ?
Fran, to get that level of detail and finish, would require a quality setup & attention to detail. As you say,
The amount of work you put into it is a testament of your drive to make it happen, albeit at your expense of health and well-being...a one person band of design, manufacture, QC and sales...
What I would ask is...would you consider a "kit" type of item? all certified as being approved by you...something that the buyer could finish (personalise) and assemble?
Or is that in itself, too much, for the average musio?....it may not be a big seller but it would be available...
She's discussed kits in the past. Bottom line is that the margins on kits are marginal to non-existent to (more often than not) negative, and it's also more labour intensive than people realise to produce kits.
Wow amazing work on your pedals 😲