This coating sounds almost too good to be true... but it's true. Steve, you may want to see how this can work on not only your oil pump, but on your turbos to run at nice sealing, zero clearance. Very interesting tech. Thanks for sharing it!
Steve, we used Line2Line on the compressor-side of the supercharger/turbo assembly on some diesel generator units, and noticed a decent difference. That was probably 10 years ago, and AFAIK they're still in service.
Abradable linings are used in jet engines for blade to case clearances. Modern jet engines also have active blade clearance control. For max efficiency, power, and compressor stall margin, bleed air is modulated around the engine case, expanding and contracting it as needed to hold the blade to case clearance stable. Great to see Kyle back in the game.
This is extremely interesting, I’d read a book about it if I had it. Sounds like new jets are basically flowing “extra” air around the outside of the jet engine to allow the engine case to expand the correct amount to keep the “blade to case” clearance as small as possible without contact. What I’d like to know, is how is this clearance measured? Is there some way of measuring the clearance in real time, or is it just predetermined data collected from known expansion rates of metals?? This sounds like F1 tech where they must circulate warm coolant around the cylinders prior to startup, because the clearances are so tight, starting it cold would prematurely wear and scuff the cylinder walls.
I did that piston coating on a atv race engine I built a couple years ago. The piston rattled very badly before. With the coating, it’s perfect. Been lasting for a couple years. Works really well.
That’s incredible technology. What a great solution to so many problems of clearance being too much. I hope this guys place really blows up after this episode. And I hope Kyle and Steve let us all know what the end result is once it’s time for a tear down 👌. Great video guys 😊👍
Sometimes small mistakes lead to whole new processes. The coating process is amazing with a multitude of uses. Will be watching for updates from Kyles as the season progresses.
This is very interesting to me as a retired machinist. I've cut all kinds of coatings over the years including hard anodized parts for NASA back in the day as well as various types of spray metals. Cant wait to hear the results on how well this stuff works.
This is racing. Its ok to be pissed about breaking stuff but slow down and develop a process to minimize mistakes. Don't assume the worst when bad things happen to motors. We all love watching you guys do things we all wish we're doing. We all live vicariously through both of you. Hold your head high and learn to enjoy both the highs and the lows.
"We all live vicariously through both of you". Wrong! Also, breaking stuff is normal and nothing to be angry about. You build it back stronger and wait for the next weak link to expose itself. Good luck to you and have a great day.
I have a video of my Line 2 Line coated pistons used in my 555 big block. These pistons were worn and had .009" piston to wall clearance. I had to run a vacuum pump to help with crankcase pressure with the F2 Procharger The Line 2 Line coated pistons were installed with a .003" piston to wall clearance and Totalseal gapless top ring. So far I have not had run the vacuum pump after around 250 passes with the F2. When the pistons were new ,they were installed with a .006" to .007" wall clearance and had piston slap until the engine got to operating temperture. The Line2Line coating fixed that issue as well.
It's amazing how much innovation and technology exists in the engine building and racing industry. I wondered what other applications powder coating would be useful for other than just being used as a durable dry coating. I hope it works out well in Kyle's engine as well as in your SMX/SML engines. I look forward to seeing the next video, as always. 👍🏼💯🇬🇺
I have a fair bit of skirt coating experience and I can highly recommend a coating like that. I will say that if you run metal thru one it often embeds in the skirts which saves the cylinder walls but it then needs stripped and reapplied so you aren't continuing to abrade embeded particles against your cylinder walls.
Met a guy that has excellent success with his 2 stroke program. He showed me all the inn's and outs of putting one of them together after coating. 2 stroke he uses a different method but it made me a believer. I have a 535 Hemi that was setup with too much clearance for street use. My pistons are boxed up and waiting for the finish hone size before I send them to Line to Line for the coating.
Reminds me of a dodgy repair I did on my old YZ 250. When I got it it had been soft seized a lot, with deep grooves down the skirt. After getting the barrel smooth the piston was very loose. I took off the high spots in the lathe and knurled the piston then sized it to the proper clearance. Tried it out and it was great for a couple of week ends but got loose again. Still without a piston to replace it I had read about crown coatings in the 80's and it gave me the idea to powder coat it. A friend of mine used to work at a powder coaters and I asked him to paint the piston skirt. I took it back to the proper size and refitted it. It worked no worries and that was only using powder coat that was never made to be inside an engine. Running it on Methanol and caster oil It lasted me a couple of years until I cooked it and replaced the piston and barrel. That stuff should be awesome on a decent hard anodized piston. I don't know about using it inside an oil pump though the first mark the penetrates down to metal might allow the HP oil to lift the coating off. The very same reason why it isn't used on Hydraulic cylinders.
They do Great work at Line to Line! Weve had them coat a few different combo pistons now with GREAT outcome. I have a strong feeling youll be using this alot in the future Steve....
I'd like to see a comparison on the dyno and boost curves of a turbo setup with and without the cold side coated. Tighter clearance is usually a very good thing on turbos and if they claim a near 0 clearance it should have power and efficiency benefits
I think ill be sending them my 2stroke race pistons this winter for a coating. Sounds very cool and looks like it works very well. Definitely going to give them a call.
Thank you for posting this interesting informative video. My macanic friends that keep my very old vehicle's repaired are going to enjoy watching this tonight. Thank you for sharing what very few share with anyone. That man's business may have to expand after you've tested his products .
They can coat the piston ring area it just costs quite a bit more. They have a few patents on the product and if anyone wants to look up the abradable material the patent number is US5196471A. There's a few components involved such as metal, lubricant and thermal plastics to form a matrix sprayed on like powder coat.
I have very little experience on modern hot rods . Some experience in money pit Harleys. I been told about the line 2k or line 2 line coating on piston skirts . I been told this is the way some engines are built using this product. I dont remember hearing about it here before but on a Harley forum . I believe that was used on both of my engines . Start up and go through a few heat cycles. Ect. . Tune . I had good experience with the oil usage, ring seal , blow by on the money pits Thank you for the information and videos
I would've liked to have seen some before and after diameter and clearance measurements. This process looks to be a game changer. It would've been nice to have done Mullet's oil pump before sending out. Can't wait to see where SM takes this process in the future. Great interview Kyle 👍
Glad the motor wasn't as bad as you thought! We are in the middle of a rebuild now with ours( spun a bearing and broke a rod on our last day of sick summer!) and might be in the same situation with the cylinders after honing! Gonna check these guys out. Pistons are expensive and weeks or months to get! Thanks for the info and as always I learn something every time I watch! Keep it up!
This coating allows manufacturers to bring out of tolerance parts up to tolerance with a cheap solution. It is a dream for a machine shop as junior machinists can turn out parts. Another way to reduce costs.
Hi Steve, here in South Africa, due to very limited supply of parts, we we did it o odd sized bore. the piston rings are replaced and sized, but the piston skirts are knurled. Knurling a piston is the process of rolling a small wheel with a positive sharp design, using adjustable air pressure on the outer piston skirt, with the inside of the skirt on an anvil. This process of rolling the sharp designs on the outer skirt pushes the metal outward around the design, making the skirt diameter larger. As a bonus, the grooves from the image help retain lubrication.
We have been knurling pistons since the 50's. I for one have knurled pistons in 67 with great success. I have also "buttoned" pistons for the same reason as this video is about. Steve is one of the best in the world of machining, designing, racing etc.
Have been using similar products from Tech Line Coatings, on 2 stroke and 4 stroke pistons and cam shafts etc. Works very good, and pretty easy to apply. Just spray it on and bake it in an oven for an hour.
Like on jet engines, abradable coating have been used on OE turbochargers to create “perfect clearance” based on the actual application operating conditions. This improves efficiency (up to 3pts), which in turn improves fuel economy and emissions performance.
The term here is "Abradable Powder Coating" which means as it finds its fit, it abrades, or gently wears away, until interferance or friction stops. At that point its found its perfect fit.
Glad to see your engine is OK! Ours let go on the last day at sick summer. The block is OK but the crank, rods, pan, 1 piston, and 2 valves are not. After watching this, I think we're going to send our pistons out to Line to Line to get coated as well.
Ive done that same process on a real budget subaru recuild, went as far coating the bearings too. Guys that did it say the Cool thing is the material absorbs and holds oil. That's where the extra lubricity comes from. Technically speaking it makes the part stronger under load because Film strength of the oil becomes less of a factor. Like dipping your finger in water vs pushing it into a wet sponge.
I remember the old days with our race motors get low on money. I would neural Pistons make them a little bigger in the skirts. Which was pretty good because those little grooves that left help hold oil
As an old retired machinist that is very interesting about the piston coating. We worked with a lot of different coatings for various machines at the Exxon plant where I was employed.
back in the day, 100 years ago, we knurled the skirts of pistons to take up excessive clearance. mine which i still have somewhere in the shop was made by perfect circle and left the letters PC in the knurled area of the skirt. yeah im really old.
Glad it wasn’t any worse than the gasket hope that coating is a great addition to the setup sounds like it had all the boost lol thanks for sharing I seen a video about a company putting divots in the top of pistons kinda like a golf ball to help make turbulence in the cylinder to help keep fuel and air mixed and suspended above the piston to make it burn cleaner they are called speed of air pistons
This was a very interesting video, I can't wait to see how the pistons run in and if it all works out as hoped. I believe it will be a great tool/fix/maintence item in the future Steve.
This process (under varying name brands) has been used on OEM applications since the 90's typically for any application it's one form of resin graphite-powder matrix. It's one of the main reasons piston-slap on OEM engines are gone. E.g. Piston manufacturer Mahle has its own version of it under the name "Grafal" etc. It's good stuff, and underrated if you ask me. Nothing bad comes out of something that is able to wear in to cause a near perfect running clearance, and a more stable piston as result.
Coming from a background of spraying powder metal coatings for heat protection as well as wear coatings in the airframe and power plant world I love seeing the technology being used over in the high performance automotive world.👍
I had .004 piston skirt clearance and 60 valvoline straightened her out. And with 9 to 1 compression and 38 degrees static timing and 6 degrees mechanical advance AND large valves and proper valve pockets, with a 650 cfm carb it didn't matter how fast you opened the throttle the engine followed almost instantly, it had more throttle response than any thing I ever saw up to that time, that was 1978. it was a 1969 model W-31 with open chamber heads.
Any V8 engine that uses only 10 bolts to secure the cylinder head to the block is more prone to blowing the head gasket than an engine that uses 14 bolts (AMC V8) or 16 bolts (BB Chevy) or 17 bolts (BB Dodge and SB Chevy) or 18 bolts like The SMX...
That coating has me thinking about the times I've put Cerakote on parts. The engines didn't run better in a measurable way, but it made the engines much easier to clean. I use it on intake manifold mounting surfaces and where two parts create a 90 degree cusp. They clean readily with soapy water and a plastic bristle brush, then blow down with compressed air.
Kyle, most SBF guys know that head gaskets are like fuses for that platform. I didn’t see how it could’ve hurt the block. Glad to see it’s going back together.
A very interesting technology. I never would have thought it could be used in all the various high wear applications but learned something new. Very cool!
Abradable coating... sounds like a hign tech, better alternative to knurling the skirts. I picked up an Ingersoll Rand type 30 air compressor in the '80's from a Crown Zellerbach paper mill. The IR had put in 30 yrs of 24-7 service for CZ. Couldn't afford cylinders or pistons, so the old timer at the Portland Ingersoll shop sent me to the machine shop he used to have the pistons knurled. I'm still using the same compressor; never had a problem w/ it. Clean enough air for painting &/or sandblasting w/o a filter. Back in the day, IR had corporate parts stores & service centers all over the country. The old timer running the Portland store installed the Type 30 @ CZ; first install he did. He serviced the compressor for 30 years, & removed it, when it was replaced. I bought from somebody completely unassociated w/ him or CZ; they got it from the guy who got it from CZ. I just happened to work on the same block as the IR store when I 1st moved to Portland. Small world...
Interesting coating. When the piston flexes and expands, the coating contacts the bore surface and wears slightly. Because you're accelerating the wear rate from a tighter initial tolerance, the amount of wearable surface area increases, which reduces the pressure on the skirts.
I’ve worked on old junk most of my life. Pistons for antique engines, this might be a game changer! ??? Lifter galleys that are worn? Maybe? I am seeing this possibly as the restorers diamond process!
Be interested in the results. I am always skeptical but I trust you to give an honest review. It sounds like another area this could be a useful product is in impeller clearance in jet boats and jet skis.
Great video, very informative. You mentioned testing for using it on your new builds but only testing it on your own personal engines. If the results are impressive on Kyle's engine I would suggest you build a engine for testing purposes where you can test it out in your controlled dyno environment. After your through, you can still profit by selling it as broken in, tested and here is what the engine does. Just a thought.
I think Kyle need to design his own billet block for the mustang so he can go out and run boost to the max and kick everyone's butt with no heads lifting or blocks breaking in half. Sounds like a great idea right Steve? :)
That coating is a new and I think improved version of a old idea. Back in the day you could get your piston skirts knurled and they would fit a lot tighter. The only ones I ever saw done were used cast pistons in a worn out block. When they came back they were too tight to even go in the cylinder. The guy installing them basically filed them to fit put it together and it sounded and ran good. How long it lasted I have no idea.
Man that is crazy you say that. I have done the exact thing way back when we had lead in gas. Not very often would that happen but to keep cost down for customers we would neural pistons it was pain staking to fit though.
As soon as Steve started talking about the coatings, I wondered if they did screw compressors. Then the guy at the coating shop held up some blower screws. I wonder if they can do industrial screw compressors. I will have to reach out to them.
That's pretty fascinating. It's got me wondering if it could work in the field I used to work in as a machinist. We used to have to fit cast iron surfaces with brass liner surfaces and hand scrap them in flat using bluing. It was a lot of work but you knew things were flat and square when it was done. This could possibly eliminate a lot of that hand scraping.
Goodmorning. My sons 1989 chev truck with a 350 developed a top end knock. He had just bought it and was messing around with a 5 stage chip it came with. On a hot day after climbing a large hill On cruise control, imagine he had the tunes on, the knock started. He’s 2nd year apprenticing under me. Anyways I figured it was probably a broken piston from pre ignition. We tore the motor down and there is a valley between #3 and #5 bores, probably 50 thou deep, and the head has the same valley between #3 and #5 combustion chambers. I’ve never seen anything like it. Have you?
Hey Steve, Tim here, i'd LOVE to see how this coating holds up, and produces wanted results.......VERY hi-tech thing.....i'm ALL EARS, so pls keep us SME sub'rs up to date.....neat vid at the Line 2 Line shop........SO Cool!!!......PEACE to you sir!!
Great video!!! That's pretty cool tech. I'm betting you will be going back to them in the future. Can tell they moved into that building by all the different railing types upstairs :D
we used to use a company called Lovett technology 20yrs. ago that did some kind of hard anodizing process it was baked on and depending on how many coats you baked on minimum was .0025.Supposedly they did it to the solar panels on the space shuttle and John force used to use them? It held up really well never flaked and also worked on steel parts and added 15 point of Rockwell to the steel without any size it only adds size to aluminum. My 2 cents
I've been thinking about a similar thing lately where you. ceramic coat the pistons instead of boring the block to the next full oversize to make you parts last longer
I used to powder coat back in the early 90s for old man treestands. We use the Teflon Wax Powder Coating system, it made for a good durable slick coating.
Exciting stuff! Hoping it works out and Kyle can race the rest of the season. Really wanna see a video of it comming apart at the end of the season with before and after clearences. Wondering if running it many miles on the road will clearence it further then the race only hemi piston Mark showed us.
A 7% improvement in turbocharger efficiency? WOW! Tight clearances to the compressor wheel keeps the pressurized air from blowing back out. HEY! Steve! You need to get the Wagon's turbos coated........
Two things I'm thinking about. 1: Will this affect wear of the cross hatch in the bore. 2: If you can only get 20 psi of oil pressure in your LS7, the pump is not the issue I'd say.
1. The coating has no effect on the cross hatch whatsoever. 2. 20 psi was only at idle or very low RPM with hot, thin oil. With the only change being the addition of the coating to the pump internals, the oil pressure more than doubled under the exact same operating conditions. Numerous examples of the same results have been reported in everything from a Buick Grand National race engine to a 1932 Auburn Brougham V-12 restoration.
So have a short block built with a course cylinder finish driven by a 3600 rpm electric motor driven with a VFD drive, and use it to wear in the skirts. Don't even put heads on it. Same thing with a SMX block. Hell, have one big bore block that has BBC, SMX, SBC sleeve in it. Just choose which he hole you want and stick the piston in it and break it in
Old pumps and compressor side of turbochargers is very impressive. The owner spoke about the improvement in fuel economy and throttle response on turbochargers and said who needs fuel efficiency on a race car but maybe there is an increase in efficiency on a race engine from this. Possibly two turbochargers that perform the same. Possibly more horsepower and ease of tuning. (efficiency) I like the fact that the surface of this material can retain oil for lubrication of the piston, rings, and cylinder.
The turbos spool up time and response? 🤔 I am envisioning things are going to get really spicy in the near future. Kind of reminds me of carbon ceramic seal on jet engines application….
Ive actually used line 2 line coatings a few times on my race car also on a very expensive gsxr1000 motor build that a machine shop absolutely butchered the bore process and left me in a very bad spot so before taking a over 10K loss i tried the coating with great success so then had a similar situation to this 1 here i ordered some very expensive pistons mid pandemic waited about 6mnths for them when them came i was off by 8thou so sent them off for the coating unfortunately about 12 passes later the car was is in a terrible wreck and burnt to the ground total loss but the bike i actually still own ive since put idk close to 8K miles on it and still running strong over the winter it was compression tested showed no loss also no oil burning to date no blow by nothing so id say the coating is very durable at least for what im putting it threw
I was first thinking some sort of ceramic coating .it sounds like a great product ,I will check with my local engine builder about doing this to my engines
Its like a Micro Wrinkle Wall finish that once wore down will have OIL POCKETS due to the wavy texture of the coating and oil will travel with it better!!!!
Thanks for sharing! That's incredibly interesting and something I'd never heard of. Looking forward to seeing how it performs, I'm sure it'll be great! Big shout out to Line2Line!
This is the first time I hear of this process, interesting. So basically ANYTHING that rotates & creates pressure runs more efficient if clearances get tighter (=less pressure losses). What an awesome technology that gives used parts a new life. 😎 And I also understood the concept of the piston skirts trapping an oil film - because like the cylinder hone a "rough" surface is much better at holding an oil film under pressure than a smooth/polished surface. ✌️
I feel your pain on expensive pistons... Mine cost about the same as a set for a V8 from Diamond and I'm short two pistons! lol I lost a set due to ring flutter last year and had to buy a new set for this year... One season on a set of double diamond coated V6 pistons is quite expensive. :)
From a fatherly's perspective - K - you are blessed by Him and your father. S - you have a tremendously respectful son...just saying for a friend. Continue...thumbs up...
The tradesmen where I did my apprenticeship as a fitter/machinist taught me a motto,” it’ll wear in before it wears out”😂 sounds like the case here.
Sir me and you are dinosaurs, me and you can't be bought, old school the way to go and apply a computer
…and my Dad told me “it’ll stretch a foot before it wears an inch”. 😂
I like to say, “it’ll self clearance.”
This coating sounds almost too good to be true... but it's true. Steve, you may want to see how this can work on not only your oil pump, but on your turbos to run at nice sealing, zero clearance. Very interesting tech. Thanks for sharing it!
Steve, we used Line2Line on the compressor-side of the supercharger/turbo assembly on some diesel generator units, and noticed a decent difference. That was probably 10 years ago, and AFAIK they're still in service.
We are! Shoot us a call if you want to freshen up some turbos!
Abradable linings are used in jet engines for blade to case clearances. Modern jet engines also have active blade clearance control. For max efficiency, power, and compressor stall margin, bleed air is modulated around the engine case, expanding and contracting it as needed to hold the blade to case clearance stable. Great to see Kyle back in the game.
Fascinating! 👍
No idea what the hell you just said, but I like you man.
This is extremely interesting, I’d read a book about it if I had it. Sounds like new jets are basically flowing “extra” air around the outside of the jet engine to allow the engine case to expand the correct amount to keep the “blade to case” clearance as small as possible without contact. What I’d like to know, is how is this clearance measured? Is there some way of measuring the clearance in real time, or is it just predetermined data collected from known expansion rates of metals?? This sounds like F1 tech where they must circulate warm coolant around the cylinders prior to startup, because the clearances are so tight, starting it cold would prematurely wear and scuff the cylinder walls.
I did that piston coating on a atv race engine I built a couple years ago. The piston rattled very badly before. With the coating, it’s perfect. Been lasting for a couple years. Works really well.
That’s incredible technology. What a great solution to so many problems of clearance being too much. I hope this guys place really blows up after this episode. And I hope Kyle and Steve let us all know what the end result is once it’s time for a tear down 👌. Great video guys 😊👍
Sometimes small mistakes lead to whole new processes. The coating process is amazing with a multitude of uses. Will be watching for updates from Kyles as the season progresses.
This is very interesting to me as a retired machinist.
I've cut all kinds of coatings over the years including hard anodized parts for NASA back in the day as well as various types of spray metals.
Cant wait to hear the results on how well this stuff works.
Powder coating cast/swaged bullets is a thing for similar reasons. It has changed volume shooting significantly
@@realblakrawb
I shoot a lot of hardcast rounds.
That gentleman from Line2Line Coatings was a neat guy. Like he couldn't do enough for a customer. Cheers from New Zealand 🇳🇿
This is racing. Its ok to be pissed about breaking stuff but slow down and develop a process to minimize mistakes. Don't assume the worst when bad things happen to motors. We all love watching you guys do things we all wish we're doing. We all live vicariously through both of you. Hold your head high and learn to enjoy both the highs and the lows.
"We all live vicariously through both of you". Wrong! Also, breaking stuff is normal and nothing to be angry about. You build it back stronger and wait for the next weak link to expose itself. Good luck to you and have a great day.
I have a video of my Line 2 Line coated pistons used in my 555 big block.
These pistons were worn and had .009" piston to wall clearance.
I had to run a vacuum pump to help with crankcase pressure with the F2 Procharger
The Line 2 Line coated pistons were installed with a .003" piston to wall clearance and Totalseal gapless top ring.
So far I have not had run the vacuum pump after around 250 passes with the F2.
When the pistons were new ,they were installed with a .006" to .007" wall clearance and had piston slap until the engine got to operating temperture.
The Line2Line coating fixed that issue as well.
I've done the coating to take up gaps on many engines. Great if you don't want to bore a worn factory bore block.
Sounds like you guys need to get your oil pumps and turbos lined up also.
It's amazing how much innovation and technology exists in the engine building and racing industry. I wondered what other applications powder coating would be useful for other than just being used as a durable dry coating. I hope it works out well in Kyle's engine as well as in your SMX/SML engines. I look forward to seeing the next video, as always. 👍🏼💯🇬🇺
I have a fair bit of skirt coating experience and I can highly recommend a coating like that. I will say that if you run metal thru one it often embeds in the skirts which saves the cylinder walls but it then needs stripped and reapplied so you aren't continuing to abrade embeded particles against your cylinder walls.
Met a guy that has excellent success with his 2 stroke program. He showed me all the inn's and outs of putting one of them together after coating. 2 stroke he uses a different method but it made me a believer. I have a 535 Hemi that was setup with too much clearance for street use. My pistons are boxed up and waiting for the finish hone size before I send them to Line to Line for the coating.
Reminds me of a dodgy repair I did on my old YZ 250. When I got it it had been soft seized a lot, with deep grooves down the skirt.
After getting the barrel smooth the piston was very loose. I took off the high spots in the lathe and knurled the piston then sized it to the proper clearance.
Tried it out and it was great for a couple of week ends but got loose again. Still without a piston to replace it I had read about crown coatings in the 80's and it gave me the idea to powder coat it.
A friend of mine used to work at a powder coaters and I asked him to paint the piston skirt. I took it back to the proper size and refitted it. It worked no worries and that was only using powder coat that was never made to be inside an engine. Running it on Methanol and caster oil It lasted me a couple of years until I cooked it and replaced the piston and barrel.
That stuff should be awesome on a decent hard anodized piston. I don't know about using it inside an oil pump though the first mark the penetrates down to metal might allow the HP oil to lift the coating off. The very same reason why it isn't used on Hydraulic cylinders.
Its an abradable coating. I used to have it done on big industrial engine turbos (16-24" turbine wheel).
They do Great work at Line to Line! Weve had them coat a few different combo pistons now with GREAT outcome.
I have a strong feeling youll be using this alot in the future Steve....
I'd like to see a comparison on the dyno and boost curves of a turbo setup with and without the cold side coated. Tighter clearance is usually a very good thing on turbos and if they claim a near 0 clearance it should have power and efficiency benefits
that would be vary interesting to see.
i am a diesel guy my self but i do really enjoy this channel .
I think ill be sending them my 2stroke race pistons this winter for a coating. Sounds very cool and looks like it works very well. Definitely going to give them a call.
There's also
WPC treatment. I gained 2-300 rpm on my m8000 by sing the top end. It does not wear off because it's not a coating too
Give us a call! Ask for either Cody or Mark, we'll be happy to help ya!
Thank you for posting this interesting informative video. My macanic friends that keep my very old vehicle's repaired are going to enjoy watching this tonight. Thank you for sharing what very few share with anyone. That man's business may have to expand after you've tested his products .
The word you were looking for describing the coating is ablative material
They can coat the piston ring area it just costs quite a bit more. They have a few patents on the product and if anyone wants to look up the abradable material the patent number is US5196471A. There's a few components involved such as metal, lubricant and thermal plastics to form a matrix sprayed on like powder coat.
Very interesting video. Always nice to see new technology implemented especially if it’s used on go fast parts!!
I have very little experience on modern hot rods . Some experience in money pit Harleys. I been told about the line 2k or line 2 line coating on piston skirts . I been told this is the way some engines are built using this product. I dont remember hearing about it here before but on a Harley forum . I believe that was used on both of my engines . Start up and go through a few heat cycles. Ect. . Tune . I had good experience with the oil usage, ring seal , blow by on the money pits Thank you for the information and videos
I would've liked to have seen some before and after diameter and clearance measurements. This process looks to be a game changer. It would've been nice to have done Mullet's oil pump before sending out. Can't wait to see where SM takes this process in the future. Great interview Kyle 👍
Glad the motor wasn't as bad as you thought! We are in the middle of a rebuild now with ours( spun a bearing and broke a rod on our last day of sick summer!) and might be in the same situation with the cylinders after honing! Gonna check these guys out. Pistons are expensive and weeks or months to get! Thanks for the info and as always I learn something every time I watch! Keep it up!
This coating allows manufacturers to bring out of tolerance parts up to tolerance with a cheap solution. It is a dream for a machine shop as junior machinists can turn out parts. Another way to reduce costs.
Hi Steve, here in South Africa, due to very limited supply of parts, we we did it o odd sized bore. the piston rings are replaced and sized, but the piston skirts are knurled.
Knurling a piston is the process of rolling a small wheel with a positive sharp design, using adjustable air pressure on the outer piston skirt, with the inside of the skirt on an anvil. This process of rolling the sharp designs on the outer skirt pushes the metal outward around the design, making the skirt diameter larger. As a bonus, the grooves from the image help retain lubrication.
We have been knurling pistons since the 50's. I for one have knurled pistons in 67 with great success. I have also "buttoned" pistons for the same reason as this video is about. Steve is one of the best in the world of machining, designing, racing etc.
Great to see the new technology being applied in the real world. Got my Steve Morris hat today,it's nice and got here quick.Thanks
Man... what an awesome tattletale for wear and clearances !!!
Have been using similar products from Tech Line Coatings, on 2 stroke and 4 stroke pistons and cam shafts etc. Works very good, and pretty easy to apply. Just spray it on and bake it in an oven for an hour.
Like on jet engines, abradable coating have been used on OE turbochargers to create “perfect clearance” based on the actual application operating conditions. This improves efficiency (up to 3pts), which in turn improves fuel economy and emissions performance.
The term here is "Abradable Powder Coating" which means as it finds its fit, it abrades, or gently wears away, until interferance or friction stops. At that point its found its perfect fit.
Very cool 😎.. looking forward to see the coating on how it wears..👍🏻😎🇺🇸
Glad to see your engine is OK! Ours let go on the last day at sick summer. The block is OK but the crank, rods, pan, 1 piston, and 2 valves are not. After watching this, I think we're going to send our pistons out to Line to Line to get coated as well.
I used the coating technology in Germany on obsolete motorcycle race pistons. Great product.
Ive done that same process on a real budget subaru recuild, went as far coating the bearings too. Guys that did it say the Cool thing is the material absorbs and holds oil. That's where the extra lubricity comes from. Technically speaking it makes the part stronger under load because Film strength of the oil becomes less of a factor. Like dipping your finger in water vs pushing it into a wet sponge.
mine were lined to line coated. seems to work well. Be sure to follow the break in procedure
I remember the old days with our race motors get low on money. I would neural Pistons make them a little bigger in the skirts. Which was pretty good because those little grooves that left help hold oil
Been there done that. Worked great for me as well!
That's old school brother I remember those days.
Just had my pistons knurled thought about this coating but didn't wanna wait
As an old retired machinist that is very interesting about the piston coating. We worked with a lot of different coatings for various machines at the Exxon plant where I was employed.
back in the day, 100 years ago, we knurled the skirts of pistons to take up excessive clearance. mine which i still have somewhere in the shop was made by perfect circle and left the letters PC in the knurled area of the skirt. yeah im really old.
Glad it wasn’t any worse than the gasket hope that coating is a great addition to the setup sounds like it had all the boost lol thanks for sharing
I seen a video about a company putting divots in the top of pistons kinda like a golf ball to help make turbulence in the cylinder to help keep fuel and air mixed and suspended above the piston to make it burn cleaner they are called speed of air pistons
This was a very interesting video, I can't wait to see how the pistons run in and if it all works out as hoped. I believe it will be a great tool/fix/maintence item in the future Steve.
This process (under varying name brands) has been used on OEM applications since the 90's typically for any application it's one form of resin graphite-powder matrix. It's one of the main reasons piston-slap on OEM engines are gone. E.g. Piston manufacturer Mahle has its own version of it under the name "Grafal" etc. It's good stuff, and underrated if you ask me. Nothing bad comes out of something that is able to wear in to cause a near perfect running clearance, and a more stable piston as result.
Coming from a background of spraying powder metal coatings for heat protection as well as wear coatings in the airframe and power plant world I love seeing the technology being used over in the high performance automotive world.👍
If this engine building thing doesn’t work out you would be a great shop teacher. Good morning Mr Morris. Lol
I had .004 piston skirt clearance and 60 valvoline straightened her out. And with 9 to 1 compression and 38 degrees static timing and 6 degrees mechanical advance AND large valves and proper valve pockets, with a 650 cfm carb it didn't matter how fast you opened the throttle the engine followed almost instantly, it had more throttle response than any thing I ever saw up to that time, that was 1978. it was a 1969 model W-31 with open chamber heads.
I wanna say Pete at HED has been using Line2Line for a good while, and has been super pleased.
He has
Any V8 engine that uses only 10 bolts to secure the cylinder head to the block is more prone to blowing the head gasket than an engine that uses 14 bolts (AMC V8) or 16 bolts (BB Chevy) or 17 bolts (BB Dodge and SB Chevy) or 18 bolts like The SMX...
That coating has me thinking about the times I've put Cerakote on parts. The engines didn't run better in a measurable way, but it made the engines much easier to clean. I use it on intake manifold mounting surfaces and where two parts create a 90 degree cusp. They clean readily with soapy water and a plastic bristle brush, then blow down with compressed air.
Kyle, most SBF guys know that head gaskets are like fuses for that platform. I didn’t see how it could’ve hurt the block. Glad to see it’s going back together.
A very interesting technology. I never would have thought it could be used in all the various high wear applications but learned something new. Very cool!
Very interesting clip. High-performance powder coating sounds like a win all around.
Very interesting product and process, it has so many possibilities and all appear to be positive.
Wow that piston coating thing is awesome.
I know a lot of motoreads gonna wanna know about this. Two and 4 stroke wheeler and dirt bike racers.
Ive spoken to this guy, awesome person. Even with a new build, it would benifit to use this coating on pistons and turbos/superchargers!
Thanks Steve for the update on Kyle Morris racing wild pony.
That's an awesome idea. A lot of applications that coating can work on.
Abradable coating... sounds like a hign tech, better alternative to knurling the skirts.
I picked up an Ingersoll Rand type 30 air compressor in the '80's from a Crown Zellerbach paper mill. The IR had put in 30 yrs of 24-7 service for CZ.
Couldn't afford cylinders or pistons, so the old timer at the Portland Ingersoll shop sent me to the machine shop he used to have the pistons knurled. I'm still using the same compressor; never had a problem w/ it. Clean enough air for painting &/or sandblasting w/o a filter.
Back in the day, IR had corporate parts stores & service centers all over the country. The old timer running the Portland store installed the Type 30 @ CZ; first install he did. He serviced the compressor for 30 years, & removed it, when it was replaced.
I bought from somebody completely unassociated w/ him or CZ; they got it from the guy who got it from CZ. I just happened to work on the same block as the IR store when I 1st moved to Portland.
Small world...
I dropped a solid roller lifter last year. It damaged cylinders #5&7. We used that “self clearance” coating and it seems to be working very good.
Perfect for the Tuesday night after work video! Time to learn some stuff boys!
Andy at Line To Line is my neighbor,,,his stuff really works well and has many applications,,,works extremely well in blower cases
Interesting coating. When the piston flexes and expands, the coating contacts the bore surface and wears slightly. Because you're accelerating the wear rate from a tighter initial tolerance, the amount of wearable surface area increases, which reduces the pressure on the skirts.
I’ve worked on old junk most of my life. Pistons for antique engines, this might be a game changer! ??? Lifter galleys that are worn? Maybe? I am seeing this possibly as the restorers diamond process!
Be interested in the results. I am always skeptical but I trust you to give an honest review. It sounds like another area this could be a useful product is in impeller clearance in jet boats and jet skis.
Great video, very informative.
You mentioned testing for using it on your new builds but only testing it on your own personal engines. If the results are impressive on Kyle's engine I would suggest you build a engine for testing purposes where you can test it out in your controlled dyno environment. After your through, you can still profit by selling it as broken in, tested and here is what the engine does. Just a thought.
I think Kyle need to design his own billet block for the mustang so he can go out and run boost to the max and kick everyone's butt with no heads lifting or blocks breaking in half. Sounds like a great idea right Steve? :)
I swear the production quality of these videos improve every episode! Nice job yall!
That coating is a new and I think improved version of a old idea. Back in the day you could get your piston skirts knurled and they would fit a lot tighter. The only ones I ever saw done were used cast pistons in a worn out block. When they came back they were too tight to even go in the cylinder. The guy installing them basically filed them to fit put it together and it sounded and ran good. How long it lasted I have no idea.
Man that is crazy you say that. I have done the exact thing way back when we had lead in gas. Not very often would that happen but to keep cost down for customers we would neural pistons it was pain staking to fit though.
As soon as Steve started talking about the coatings, I wondered if they did screw compressors. Then the guy at the coating shop held up some blower screws. I wonder if they can do industrial screw compressors. I will have to reach out to them.
That's pretty fascinating. It's got me wondering if it could work in the field I used to work in as a machinist. We used to have to fit cast iron surfaces with brass liner surfaces and hand scrap them in flat using bluing. It was a lot of work but you knew things were flat and square when it was done. This could possibly eliminate a lot of that hand scraping.
Goodmorning. My sons 1989 chev truck with a 350 developed a top end knock. He had just bought it and was messing around with a 5 stage chip it came with. On a hot day after climbing a large hill On cruise control, imagine he had the tunes on, the knock started. He’s 2nd year apprenticing under me. Anyways I figured it was probably a broken piston from pre ignition. We tore the motor down and there is a valley between #3 and #5 bores, probably 50 thou deep, and the head has the same valley between #3 and #5 combustion chambers. I’ve never seen anything like it. Have you?
Hey Steve,
Tim here, i'd LOVE to see how this coating holds up, and produces wanted results.......VERY hi-tech thing.....i'm ALL EARS, so pls keep us SME sub'rs up to date.....neat vid at the Line 2 Line shop........SO Cool!!!......PEACE to you sir!!
Great video!!! That's pretty cool tech. I'm betting you will be going back to them in the future. Can tell they moved into that building by all the different railing types upstairs :D
we used to use a company called Lovett technology 20yrs. ago that did some kind of hard anodizing process it was baked on and depending on how many coats you baked on minimum was .0025.Supposedly they did it to the solar panels on the space shuttle and John force used to use them? It held up really well never flaked and also worked on steel parts and added 15 point of Rockwell to the steel without any size it only adds size to aluminum. My 2 cents
I've been thinking about a similar thing lately where you. ceramic coat the pistons instead of boring the block to the next full oversize to make you parts last longer
I used to powder coat back in the early 90s for old man treestands. We use the Teflon Wax Powder Coating system, it made for a good durable slick coating.
Exciting stuff! Hoping it works out and Kyle can race the rest of the season. Really wanna see a video of it comming apart at the end of the season with before and after clearences. Wondering if running it many miles on the road will clearence it further then the race only hemi piston Mark showed us.
I use line2line coatings to get more life out of all my worn out two stroke cylinders! Life saver and huge money saver!
A 7% improvement in turbocharger efficiency? WOW! Tight clearances to the compressor wheel keeps the pressurized air from blowing back out. HEY! Steve! You need to get the Wagon's turbos coated........
interesting to see Steve face thinking where he can try this product in a current project...it is amazing the things you can find nowadays
Two things I'm thinking about.
1: Will this affect wear of the cross hatch in the bore.
2: If you can only get 20 psi of oil pressure in your LS7, the pump is not the issue I'd say.
1. The coating has no effect on the cross hatch whatsoever.
2. 20 psi was only at idle or very low RPM with hot, thin oil. With the only change being the addition of the coating to the pump internals, the oil pressure more than doubled under the exact same operating conditions. Numerous examples of the same results have been reported in everything from a Buick Grand National race engine to a 1932 Auburn Brougham V-12 restoration.
Ablative (?) kinda like boat bottoms. When you run the boat the paint wears off to drop the growth.
Very intriguing process and product. It’ll be interesting to see how well it works and if there is any type of measurable improvements.
So have a short block built with a course cylinder finish driven by a 3600 rpm electric motor driven with a VFD drive, and use it to wear in the skirts. Don't even put heads on it. Same thing with a SMX block. Hell, have one big bore block that has BBC, SMX, SBC sleeve in it. Just choose which he hole you want and stick the piston in it and break it in
Old pumps and compressor side of turbochargers is very impressive.
The owner spoke about the improvement in fuel economy and throttle response on turbochargers and said who needs fuel efficiency on a race car but maybe there is an increase in efficiency on a race engine from this. Possibly two turbochargers that perform the same. Possibly more horsepower and ease of tuning.
(efficiency)
I like the fact that the surface of this material can retain oil for lubrication of the piston, rings, and cylinder.
The turbos spool up time and response? 🤔 I am envisioning things are going to get really spicy in the near future.
Kind of reminds me of carbon ceramic seal on jet engines application….
I did the same thing on the pistons for a 347 I built years ago. It works.
Ive actually used line 2 line coatings a few times on my race car also on a very expensive gsxr1000 motor build that a machine shop absolutely butchered the bore process and left me in a very bad spot so before taking a over 10K loss i tried the coating with great success so then had a similar situation to this 1 here i ordered some very expensive pistons mid pandemic waited about 6mnths for them when them came i was off by 8thou so sent them off for the coating unfortunately about 12 passes later the car was is in a terrible wreck and burnt to the ground total loss but the bike i actually still own ive since put idk close to 8K miles on it and still running strong over the winter it was compression tested showed no loss also no oil burning to date no blow by nothing so id say the coating is very durable at least for what im putting it threw
Very cool process. Thx Kyle for sharing.
Man, I am always learning great stuff on this channel! Thanks Steve.
I was first thinking some sort of ceramic coating .it sounds like a great product ,I will check with my local engine builder about doing this to my engines
Its like a Micro Wrinkle Wall finish that once wore down will have OIL POCKETS due to the wavy texture of the coating and oil will travel with it better!!!!
Thanks for sharing! That's incredibly interesting and something I'd never heard of. Looking forward to seeing how it performs, I'm sure it'll be great! Big shout out to Line2Line!
Much love from Guam/ Washington state 🇬🇺🍻🤙🏾🍻 y’all hiring for mechanic
This is the first time I hear of this process, interesting. So basically ANYTHING that rotates & creates pressure runs more efficient if clearances get tighter (=less pressure losses). What an awesome technology that gives used parts a new life. 😎
And I also understood the concept of the piston skirts trapping an oil film - because like the cylinder hone a "rough" surface is much better at holding an oil film under pressure than a smooth/polished surface. ✌️
I feel your pain on expensive pistons... Mine cost about the same as a set for a V8 from Diamond and I'm short two pistons! lol I lost a set due to ring flutter last year and had to buy a new set for this year... One season on a set of double diamond coated V6 pistons is quite expensive. :)
From a fatherly's perspective - K - you are blessed by Him and your father. S - you have a tremendously respectful son...just saying for a friend. Continue...thumbs up...