Sullenberger on Air France Flight 447 crash
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- Опубликовано: 30 май 2011
- Harry Smith speaks with CBS News aviation and safety expert Capt. Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger about Air France Flight 447 and what black box recordings from the cockpit tell us about the crash.
The most disturbing part to me was on how clueless the crew members were on handling this situation.
Like you could do any better. Sully would have failed too.
@@michaelkensington2494 I’m not a pilot, so how can I do better?
“Even Sully would fail”? Are you by any chance related to the pilots on Air France?
@@HISHAM931 Exactly. So don't judge the crew. You dont know how difficult it must have been in that situation in those conditions they were under. Yes even Sully would have failed. He admitted as much.
@@michaelkensington2494 where did Sully say even he would fail? You do recognize there was some serious miscommunication between the pilots, right? You don’t have to be a pilot to see that level of incompetency.
I recommend you watch the animation from the RUclipsr “FlightChannel”. It clearly depicts how this could have easily been prevented if there was some level of communication.
The FIRST crises you're taught to handle in flight training is a stall. A simple wings stall is EXTREMELY simple to fix, put the nose down and regain speed and control of the aircraft. ALL pilots are taught this EXTREMELY obvious fix to a simple problem. Let me emphasize ALL pilots are trained on how to recover from a stall -it's basic and simple. You MUST pitch the nose down -the second officer NEVER did.
In fear or panic he keep trying to GO UP when EVERY pilot on planet earth knows the fix is to put the NOSE DOWN to get speed and control. I am serious, ALL pilots are taught this VERY SIMPLE thing -that this pilot didn't know that is CHILLING -it's like not knowing to hits the brakes or steer into a skid in a car. IT IS BASIC to flying. PLUS the second officer never gave up the stick even though the other pilot "took over" and said he was in control -the second office kept holding his stick back as the other pilot tried to lower the nose (doing the right thing) and because he kept pulling the stick back the other pilots nose stick was nullifying the other stick. They aren't saying it but every pilot knows -the second officer's very basic flight ignorance killed everyone on board.
Sully is absolutly right. Those were basic skills the pilots should have applied in that sitation and werent aware on what was happening.
Too much reliance on computer systems and not enough hands-on flight training.
So, did jets have automated tools in the early days of aviation?
@@christerry1773 Less than nowadays, that's for sure.
Though the air speed indicator was broken (iced over) the co-pilot's actions were what ultimately led to the loss of the plane and the people aboard.
he most likely became spatial disorientated
the speed reading was wrong for only less than a minute. even with faulty speed reading any competent pilot should have a clue of the real speed, not to mention not to pull back on the stick like a 5 yr old on the rail of the roller coaster
@@themomentchannel3498 well i thought all people with cpl should have a current IFR
How true, no one can possibly know how horrible conditions were in that cockpit....a raging storm, no flight information whatsoever and, in fact, erroneous information and yet we sit and point fingers at the pilots for not doing the right thing. Captain Sullenberger is class personified. I agree that politics would be a great field for him if he has the interest.
Yeah, expecting airline pilots to know how to fly is way out of line. I hear you.
There was no erroneous information. Just a panickd crew in head lights.
sorry but i have to say the severity of the storm was not as severe as how bad bonin was at flying. i think sully was only being nice to the deceased including the pilot. i wouldn't say the same for the sake of the passengers
The captain should never taken a nap going into a storm. He should have waited until they were fully through the storm. I'm not a pilot, but it's his responsibility for the safety of the passengers. I feel so bad for the families of all of them including the captains family. As usual companies wait till something bad happens to "change the speed detectors" so it doesn't happen again. All airlines have the responsibility to ensure all aspects are covered so even if the airspeed sensors fail there should have been a back up. Now airplanes have triple hydraulics due to many crashes for failed hydraulics, they should not have waited for something bad to happen to fix this air speed sensor problem. This is just so upsetting to me especially because the plane was perfectly operational. Again, god bless the families of this horrible tragedy.
Sully is one of my heroes! And I'm not even a pilot nor really like flying!
Lol 👍
Sully's a chill boss and he knows it
As a professional pilot with many thousands of hours I'm surprised that Capt. Chesley agreed to that interview. He chose his words carefully and that's the best I can say.
Capt Sullenburger actually says a lot if you pay attention. His point is clear - training is even more important as aircraft systems become complex because when they fail, the scenarios they create are equally complex. Going back to basics, if you set the thrust and pitch angle correctly (varies somewhat by aircraft) but roughly 85% thrust and 5 deg up from what I have heard (I am not a pilot), you will be flying at the right speed and right angle to avoid a stall.
What did that man have in mind to keep the nose up till the end?
That seems to be the one question literally nobody has a logic response for 🤦
Why has suicide been ruled out ? Anyone who knows anything about flying knows that if the plane tells you it's stalling, you put the plane into a dive ! How to do that ? Simple, push the control lever, the stick FORWARD ! Not BACKWARD...as the co pilot kept doing . Looks like suicide on the spur of the moment ! Otherwise, he just panicked !
As a pilot, i can say that this crash is a clear indication of what a fly by wire system amplifies. The whole system is designed to relief pilots from workload and, what’s worse, from thinking about how the airplane flies naturally. One more, pilots start to forget the basics of flying and rely more on the automated systems. I don’t believe this accident would’ve happened with Boeing pilots. They would at least have good indication of what the plane is doing.
Quite sad how the pilots were trying to understand whats happening, but the problem is right in front of them. Pierre pulling up, due to that they didn’t recover from the stall. Pilot error was definitely at-least 99% the cause of this crash. 1% is that communication. If Pierre said that he was pulling up like 1 minute into the stall, they could have avoided the crash. But sadly, the captain realized a bit too late. RIP.
thats correct, another technique or method used when airspeed is low is called sacrificing altitude for airspeed. you pitch the nose down in dive and lose altitude however you restore lift by allowing a smooth flow over the wings and you should pull out of the dive wings level, that if you are not flying at a low altitude.
Each plane will have different parameters of course, but that pretty much makes sense. Set the pitch and thrust to the correct settings, and you can fly close to level long enough to contact a radar station for assistance, or wait for the pitot tubes to defrost.
What really surprises me from reading the flight transcript was how clueless the two co-pilots were at what was happening. They knew right from the start that their speed indicators were faulty, but didn't apply the appropriate actions.
For all computerized systems, such as the FD, the GIGO principle applies - that means "garbage in - grarbage out" which means if the data you feed the system is unreliable (such as the faulty airspeed readings), then the output of the system is equally unreliable.
" no flight information whatsoever "
That's just wrong. They lost their speed reading for 58 seconds only. The pitot tubes came back on after 58 seconds.
There simply was no excuse for crashing this plane.
At some point, a pilot has to say: "I'm going to just fly the plane and ASSUME my altitude reading and artificial horizon readings are correct.
With those running and then speed coming back on, no way they should crash.
I wouldn't have let these guys drive a bus.
The misconception is that airplanes are so high tech, they can fly themselves. Not true. My grandfather started flying with twa in the 60's as a first officer on the 707, and in those times, planes had at most, three pilots, third being a flight engineer to look after the various systems aboard the plane. Today, planes still need the human intervention, that only humans can do things computers cannot. On flight 447, the relief first officer was fixated on letting the computer correct the problem, but it could not. I say, that three pilots should still be used to fly commercial airplanes. The third being the flight engineer, just to be that human intervention.
Remember, the stall warning indicator had "given up" and was no longer sounding, even though the plane was in a stall (and HAD been the whole time!). The "Flight Director" may not be able to recognize or account for stall condition. The FD in fact made the *same* mistake as the pilot, thinking that "nose up" equals "plane goes up" -- unless you're in a STALL. The experienced guy knew better but didn't get actual control back soon enough -- and then the FD warning undercut his intent.
So humble
If this man was on board of flight 447, that plane would never go down. I'm not here comparing the flight 447 disaster with the incident in Hudson River, but Sully has something that Bonin, Dubois, and Robert never had in that cockpit : Sully kept is calmness all the time while dealing the situation with the ATC controller and also with co Pilot Jeff. It has to be communication all the time between the pilots, which they didn't have in that doomed flight. The plane was stalling, nobody understood and did nothing and when the captain came back from the rest they should have told him all the situation, when Bonin finally did, it was too late to control the plane and do the right position to reverse the deep stall. Surely the first captain would handle the situation if he had time, and first he shouldn't even have gone to the nap while flying into a thunderstorm. Al the situation involving this plane crash is frustrating
a simple bubble level bolted to the wall beside the pilot would make a cheap, effective backup angle of attack indicator that would not rely on the air data system. but try to sell an aircraft engineer on simple, nearly foolproof solutions.
All airlines must invest in better cockpit resource management
Why did the "Flight Director" (part of the computer system) advise a "nose up" pitch?
I dont understand how this had happened. I still dont believe these pilots dont know how to keep the aircraft flying and how to do anticstall maneuver. There must be something missing. Anyone has questioned the capability of such plane going through a storm at all?
85% thrust/5% pitch up. To maintain speed. I had zero training.. and I knew that from being scared of flying and my appreciation to aerodynamics.
Flight 101- If your Stalling tilt the nose down slightly and give a bit more power to the engines to maintain a safe airspeed.
What's weird is that seems more like common sense than even flight 101...like if ur flying a plane in a game (gta for example) and u climb and it stalls...you tilt back down to regain speed. Seems to me like common sense 101...something doesn't add up.
@@KBP120 People be stupid sometimes. After I did more research into the crash and found that as the pilot had the nose up the co-pilot was trying to push the nose down. The flight computer was only taking input from the pilot when there are conflicting inputs. They didn't realize the mistake till it was too late. Now Boeing planes yoke system may have saved them. As one control yoke is pulled the other moves with it. lets both pilots know where the plane is going. Just really sad.
@@traemaxwell I thought it was the (2nd) co pilot?trying to put nose up and pilot (actual co-pilot to the captain) trying to put it down. The captain was snoring most of the time out of the cockpit as this went on (great job- he got his beauty rest). My point is that from the reports about this flight...it seems like this guy who kept trying to continually climb while the plane was stalling (after being told to stop multiple times mind you) has a very low intelligence level...lower than most common Joe Schmo's..to actually be doing that and legitimately think he's doing the correct thing the whole time. He either knew what he was doing and wanted them to go down...or he's dumb to a very high end level..like extreme. It's not even something you have to be trained in...if a plane is stalling...you don't try to keep climbing. It's literally a matter of common sense.
@@KBP120 Agreed ;)
@@KBP120 Feels almost like a suicide or substances to me.
Like he was playing dumb.
Also I never fly overnight if I can help it. Fatigue level is highest, and visibility is poorest.
sad RIP
The FIRST crises you're taught to handle in flight training is a stall. A simple wings stall is EXTREMELY simple to fix, put the nose down and regain speed and control of the aircraft. ALL pilots are taught this EXTREMELY obvious fix to a simple problem. Let me emphasize ALL pilots are trained on how to recover from a stall -it's basic and simple. You MUST pitch the nose down -the second officer NEVER did. In fear or panic he keep trying to GO UP when EVERY pilot on planet earth knows the fix is to put the NOSE DOWN to get speed and control. I am serious, ALL pilots are taught this VERY SIMPLE thing -that this pilot didn't know that is CHILLING -it's like not knowing to hits the brakes or steer into a skid in a car. IT IS BASIC to flying. PLUS the second officer never gave up the stick even though the other pilot "took over" and said he was in control -the second office kept holding his stick back as the other pilot tried to lower the nose (doing the right thing) and because he kept pulling the stick back the other pilots nose stick was nullifying the other stick. They aren't saying it but every pilot knows -the second officer's very basic flight ignorance killed everyone on board.
I love his voice.
Sully's appraisal has held true.
There is a Boeing bulletin on "Erroneous Flight Instruments" that is very informative. Read the analyses of two Boeing 757 crashes that originated with erroneous pitot tube airspeed indications and led to fatal stall situations. The resulting situations were dire and the crews were unable to recover from the confusing instrument readings.
Don't forget the first officers of all those flights. It not only takes a good captain, but also a good crew. With as many layoffs as there have been in the past few years, chances are good that the first officer has as much or even more experience than the captains
Personally, I think the only situation that excuses crashing a plane is faulty altimeter readings at night or in clouds.
Yeah. Your speed is critical but you can assume a speed based on power for a time - especially considering that their pitot tubes were only offline for 58 seconds.
If they had simply switched the autopilot back on after that, they'd have been fine.
Jacob, really, considering you likely have never flown a plane, a commercial airliner for that matter, your comments are extremely ignorant and baseless. This post is ridiculous.
@preemptivestrike20 still to this date all LRU ( Line Replaceable Units ) are black in color, reason why early Flight Data Recorders were also black. as you state it was in the sixties that the requirement came to paint the armature in bright orange to ease search.
Look at Sully, how cool and calm he is all the time... I'd be happy having him fly me in a wingless plastic model airplane!
Barbiturates
Sully isn't going to criticise the pilot in charge who stupidly, almost intentionally it seemed, crashed the plane. May seem harsh, but this pilot inexplicably put the stable aircraft into a steep climb following the auto pilot switching off due to icing up of the pitot tubes. He pulled back on the stick fully, causing the plane to slow down ' going up hill ' ! Eventually, the slowness of the plane reduced the lift of the wings causing the plane to fall like a stone. The Captain realised what the co pilot was doing when he returned to the cockpit but it was too late. The plane had run out of height and putting the nose down to speed up and fly wasn't going to work. The plane had stalled. Simple recovery needs adequate height and an increase in speed once the nose points down, not up which the copilot had kept doing. RIP.
Unfortunately social constructs among different cultures carry over into the cockpit just like in the KAG flight you mentioned. Where the FO may have or have not said something, but because of the Captain's seniority, it's out of place for a person in that culture to question the judgement of someone senior to them. That's where training was lacking. Blame can't sit fully on the FO. As many years as that Captain had been flying, he should've caught the issue quickly.
@allmusicfoodoflove it wasnt an interview. he was being paid. the guy said "sully joins abc news".... sully is so smart it is scary
Sully is one of the best.
listen to the aeroperu crash in 96. that was a pilots worst nightmare
Ever heard of China Airlines 006. Well the Captain unintentional stalled the plane by forgetting a rudder input to correct a right bank assuming the auto pilot will correct it which in the 747 is not programmed to do so, the plane spiralled out of control at 41,000 ft and the captain levelled the plane at 9,000ft. when it broke from the clouds it's still not impossible to save aircraft.
Pilot error 100%. Step one: call the Command Pilot FIRST! Copilot and FO must have had very little flying hours on light aircraft, panicked and completely forgot basic flight rules. Once they had true airspeed indication, all they (including the “real” Pilot) to do was re-engage the Auto Pilot. This is one of the reasons for MCAS and the current 787 Max problems. I do not fly AF anymore!
You got me there, but in those situations the captain was in command so thats what im relating to to BUT you are correct a good example is British Airways Flight 5390. a healthy cockpit and crew are key factors. A tragic example to what you are saying is Korean Air Cargo Flight 8509 were the first officer had the upper hand over the captain but tragically they crashed.
I look at people like Cpt. Chesley Sullenburger US Airways Flight 1458, Cpt. Bob Person Air Canada Flight 143, Cpt. Eric Moodt British Airways Flight 9 and so on as heros becasuse these people saved there planes and are competent flyers by experience. The more we automate the more we need to get back the basics !!
unfortunately, it was not so easy for the AF447 crew. they were in the middle of a thunderstorm with heavy turbulences. at this altitude the slightest change of pitch & speed can cause a catastrophe.. and in such a storm it's impossible to keep a steady pitch & thrust. you need to correct all the time. PF Bonin made some big mistakes, but there's no guarantee a more-experienced pilot could have saved AF447. malfunctioning instruments+bad weather+a panicked PF - a fatal combination
Flow198812 still no excuses
Captain left cocpit to have break if situation is that bad he should stay in cocpit
Personally, they need to change the way computers interface with humans. You know if some idiot pilot decides to ignore a stall warning, the computer should, in a sarcastic tone, come on and say something like:
"You know, moron, you actually are stalling this airplane. I'm not kidding. Pitch the nose down now or you will crash in the ocean. Idiots!"
Yeah! Like Jarvis or Friday from Ironman/MCU movies 🙃😉😛😊
They tell the sleepy pilot "We can't control the plane!" He wipes his eyes, yawns and says "That's your problem. I'm going back to bed."
how bonin gets his ifr is still a mystery
Maybe don’t fly through lighting storms?
Modern day pilots are little better than passengers ! They drive the plane out, take off, wheels up and a computer flies the plane from there, until it's time to land, with wheels down. Any emergencies in between and they panic and crash ! Sully belongs to a different generation of pilots !
I think they should just hand out parachutes.
Jacob Becomes Israel Weight issues. Jumping into -30F temps is deadly. Opening the door is impossible.
KISS
@johndotadothays bold statements help the audience which is by and large lay people. he was speaking to the audience he was being paid to speak to, i dont see what is sad about that.
The entire tragedy lasted roughly four mintues. There was no way someone outside the flight deck could have done something - after all the pilots had the same fault indications that were being broadcast to AF on their screens.
Not only The pilots made a mistake!!!
They have as a result of the Korean Air accident
they need to invest in teaching the pilots basic flight skills, these automated aircraft require no real skill to fly as the computer does all the flying normally. but when something goes wrong the computer is lost & the pilot must have the skill & experience to be able to fly seat of the pants. the Air France flight crew when the pitot tubes froze lost flight data, without the computer to tell them the planes speed, angle of attack, etc. lacked the basic knowlege to compensate.
assuming you are an adult, don't use language that only children use behind a screen, put forward your point of view and correct others without your jungle language. Thanks.
seminal incident? really.. damn it it was stalling, when you stall you bring the nose down.. and Af didnt know that?
Seminal in the sense he was describing it, that the pilots did not understood what was happening to the plane after loosing the pitot sensors and after receiving faulty data that caused co-pilot Bonin act irrationally by pulling the stick up. The pilots then did not communicate between them, who was doing what and this lead to a tragedy that was easily avoidable.
This accident raised and still raises lots of alarms about machine and human factors being in conflict - the pilots are not trained to deal with modern aeroplanes.
If Sully had been flying that plane, they would all still be alive!! He is incredibly intelligent and an exceptional pilot. That FO Pierre was the dumbest pilot on the planet and the Captain had a hangover and couldn’t be bothered to take over in the cockpit until it was too late!! Been on Air France 3 times, can honestly say it is a dreadful airline!
I’m curious. How do you know the condition the captain was in. Is that from a fact on the accident report or just an opinion just your small brain came up with? Also, how does flying on Air France 3 times link to this accident? This was a crash due to human error and technology failure, and could have happened to any pilot.
@omgwtfbbq6666 I'm glad you're not the only one that knows this! And now GovCo wants to put those in all production cars. Won't that be nice?? Yeah, right. Prison orange is easier to find in a pile of burning wreckage than BLACK. Lets just call it a racist box.
this is why i dont fly european or american airlines if i dont have to - too many inexperienced, unknowledgeable pilots.
Byron Lin same.
5 years ago our Creator, the Almighty God, Who controls our heart bit, life, health and wealth saved these people on the Hudson river, and gave the credit to the pilot. But, no one talked about God, Who saved them. The only one got some message from this incident, was a man who fell in love with a Red Cross Blanket, so he gathered some money for Red Cross. We are definitely turned to a Godless nation. May God save us from Godless people.
The pilot and only the pilot is responsible for saving all those lives...
TV, sex and intoxicants paralyzed our nation to the point that we are not able to think anymore. That is why we turned to a Godless nation. This temporary dwelling given to us by our Creator has a house rule. If we do not follow the house rule we are going to suffer the consequences. That is why we have so many disasters in our nation. Poisoned foods with chemicals, processed foods, resulting the sickest people in the word, homosexuality's, 50 million hungry relatives waiting for their next meal. More than a 1 million Homeless relatives sleeping on the streets, tornados, floods, cold weather, drought and so ... Everything we do is wrong. May God save us from Godless people. You just proved my point. Now we have the scientifically proven message of God, the untouched message of God, supported by mathematics, the exact science. The truth has come and falsehood will be vanished. And all of these 4200 false, fake, and manmade religions will be wiped out.
ThankGOD4music2014
And whats so wrong with a Godless nation?? Religion is responsible for so much pain and suffering in this world... do away with religion and world would be a much happier place.
And Who will save us from the nation of God ?
Only satan can help you...
Some of us wake up here but majority will wake up on the other side. I do not blame you, TV, sex and intoxicants paralyzed our people to the pint that are not able to think anymore... Media does not allow you to think.