I’ve cracked Dan’s algorithm. I’ve been keeping a spreadsheet for over a year now of each top 100 movie that pops onto the list. Dan took everyone’s rating and averaged them. So for Terminator 2 (Alex=1, Cal=100, Clint=7, Dan=7), the average would be 28.7. If someone did not have the movie on their list, it’s considered to be 110th place on their list. (I could have made this post a long time ago, but I’ve been waiting for a long time for enough data to determine this exact number, and the last episode clinched it.) So for The Dark Knight (Michael=110, Alex=18, Clint=110, Dan=110), the average is 87. Then Dan sorted all the movies by their average, and that’s the list. Hopefully someone else out there was as intrigued with this as I was.
Is there anywhere that the top 100 is being shared? I wanted to see what the list is looking like but IGN and Cinefix have not been sharing its progress.
I agree. Striking this movie because producers used its high sales numbers to justify making more movies that also did well, but you personally didn't like, is a petty move IMO.
Annoyance at the general haughty demeanor in this aside, they're not even entirely correct about the Joker's mask being a reference to The Killing. It was more directly an homage to the Joker's mask from his first appearance on Batman '66.
and much higher, I usually agree with Clint but not this time, this is a top 10 movie of all time, though I do agree that it is mostly because of Heath, otherwise it would be a top 50 of all time maybe, the script, the characters, the scenes, the music, the themes, the plot twists, few movies can compete with the tight complexity of this movie, there is no perfect movie but this is a damn near good one
Very surprised at you guys having it in for this film. While I felt for Cal losing his Uncut Gems, I think the reasoning for dumping this was nonsense. Would have been wonderful if the only choice in that envelope was Interstellar 😂. Happy with Hard Boiled. Was blown away watching that when it was released.
This was a bit of a frustrating listen. There’s too much unnecessary nitpicking that really drags down the flow. Alex feels like the only genuine one here, while the other two seem to try too hard to be seen as "cool" by not liking a super popular movie. However, it’s clear they do enjoy it, especially Cal, who seems to appreciate many elements of the film. Yet, they constantly undercut their own enjoyment with little jabs whenever they express something positive.
It's not them trying to be cool, it's the fact that superhero fatigue is a real thing especially for people like the cinefix cast whose jobs revolve around movies. It's hard to enjoy something, even if you can acknowledge the good about it, when the entire genre it's a part of is almost singlehandedly ruining your favorite art form
@@joshstark1862 Alex feeling like the only genuine one is a bit of a constant for the series tbf, it's usually not too bad but it was dire in this one. I'd be very interested to just see her top 100 when it's all said and done, I bet it's banger after banger
And the idea that the car chase is bad because it violates the 180 degree rule is nonsense. Literally no one watched that scene and wasn’t enthralled. New cool things kept happening with characters you were fully invested in. You can break the rules in favour of the spirit of the scene, which Nolan achieved. The idea that you can only make a good movie or scene by slavishly following the rules in a textbook is anti-cinema.
The fact that they struck this film is emblematic of a problem with the retrospective analysis of another movie that they kind of shrugged off in this episode, Citizen Kane. They're both all-time greats, but the fact that they've been so widely accepted as greats for so long it makes it so they can never live up to their reputation on rewatch. That doesn't mean you don't consider them though. There has to be room on a list like this for movies whose legacy precedes them, that made such an indelible mark on the industry and culture that they can't be ignored, no matter how boring or cliche that might seem.
I mean, they kind of do that with Seven Samurai right? Except that, in their opinion (if I understand them correctly), the movie still holds up. I wonder if the most influential movies needs to be seperated from best? Historic? Like, ultimately, it's going to be opinion about what goes on a list or not, but I think they ARE considering the historic impact, but they give it less weight than others might.
A counter-argument to this being struck: This isn't the movie that ruined Hollywood. It was Iron Man which was released during the same summer (as mentioned early in the episode) and is the template for what Marvel movies became.
Ya that was a good movie too though. If there was a problem about the means and formula of the movies getting stale and repetative it would be marvel movies. The Batman franchise has stayed relatively fresh. No one argues that Spiderman caused the MCU. So ya I'd say Iron Man should take the brunt of the blame
If I ever get to be part of making a top 100 list, The Dark Knight would be my number 1. I watch it atleast once a year. After watching the video. It's surprising to me the amount of dislike Clint and Cal had for this movie considering the amount of times The Dark Knight has been mentioned in Cinefix Lists. You have Independence Day higher than The Dark Knight? Come on. This just cements to me that I disagree with Cal's movie tastes for the most part. Striking The Dark knight, considered the best of it's genre, and writing off the superhero genre as a whole is mind boggling. Uncut Gems had it's merits but it was a hard watch.
I think the brilliance behind The Dark Knight is it's a comic book movie, but doesn't feel like a comic book movie. It is so grounded, outside of Batman's gadgets, it could be any "rogue cop" movie from the 70s. If you took away the names Batman and the Joker, and got them out of their costumes, you would never know it's a comic book movie. I don't really compare it to the MCU, or the DCEU, or even the Batman movies before it. It's actual cinema as Scorsese would say. I wouldn't even call it the best Super Hero movie. It's just the best movie to ever feature a Superhero. And Heath Ledger's performance is on the short list of best performances in Movie History.
This is still my favorite theater experience ever. I saw the midnight showing on my birthday, July 18th, with all my close friends at the time. The theater joined my friends in singing ‘Happy Birthday’ to me right before the movie started. Experiencing that and then watching this masterpiece of a film! That’s what you call a core memory
To me, one of the greatest movies of that year, and a general movie. I do think this movies wasn’t guilty of the ruin of current Hollywood. This was mostly because of the MCU, despite their highs sometime. It’s guilty of two part: 1) the urgency of making dark-tone blockbuster (or at least promoting them that way) -this includes the DCEU-; 2) Nolan’s toxic fanboyism (there’s a fun joke about it the Dark Knight honest trailer and Citizen Kane)
You really striked this movie, Cal? This movie is absolutely fucking awesome! This might be the first time, that I am completely on Team Alex! Also: there are ridiculous choices in all of your Top 100s: Uncut Gems? Independence Day? Anchorman? Disneys Robin Hood? Three Amigos? The Burbs? And you guys really put your dislike in this movie, probably just because it's fun now to jump on the 'this-movie-is-overrated"-train. THIS MOVIE FUCKING BELONGS ON THE TOP 100!!!!
This is the one of the very very few movies where the antagonist is truly, in every sense of the words, equal and opposite to the protagonist and coming up a with script where all that makes even a little bit of sense is a massive achievement let alone doing it in a superhero movie
The best years in cinema were 1993 (Schindler's List, Jurassic Park, Name Of The Father, Groundhog Day, True Romance, Nightmare Before Christmas, Carlito's Way, The Fugitive, Philadelphia), 1994 (Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, Forrest Gump, Léon, Lion King) and 1995 (Se7en, The Usual Suspects, Heat, Braveheart, Toy Story, Casino, Before Sunrise, 12 Monkeys, Apollo 13).
I think the choice to bash this movie for two hours hurts Cinefix’s brand. This podcast has raved about The Burbs and Three Amigos, but the Dark Knight is crap? If the only factor you judge by is childhood nostalgia, I don’t know if I want to watch this anymore
to blame the current comic book glut on the Dark Knight… does the MCU happen if TDK doesnt exist? yes, it absolutely would..only films the “grit” affected was the DC line…everyone else that had shifted to “grit” took it from Bourne Conspiracy
Harvey Dents arc as the ultimate tragic foil/contagonist is a chefs kiss and a highly unrecognized yet key foundational ingredient to what makes this film perfect.
I'm a bit older, but 1982 was the best year for genre cinema. The Thing, Poltergeist, Blade Runner, Conan, ET (not my taste), Creepshow, The Verdict, Sophie's Choice, Halloween 3, Tron, Star Trek Wrath of Khan, Cat People, etc...
I am Alex on this. I love this movie and it was the first movie ever that made me go: “wow, this is what you can do with movies”. All its flaws don’t matter to me and never will. I’ll gladly watch it at any moment of the day!
@@timleegte9375 first movie I sat through at 3 hours and thought I could easily do it again, even Fellowship I felt coulda been cut down originally (love it now though)
I also love Bruces arc in this film ... He realizes his childhhood trauma in not simply the source of why he cant have the good qualties of Harvey ... outward charisma, fight crime lawfully, healthy relationships ... its also the source of his strength and armor against becoming what a naive, ignorant, and untested Dent became in the face of adult trauma .. unlawful, morally fluid, and vengeful. Bruce then realizing he cant take off the costume figuratively .. it is him and he is it. There are things he cannot be which his trauma has made him go without but you cant miss what you've never had and thats a sacrifuce he can afford to make because its the life he has always lived and one he can keep living. Whats one more day. Beautiful.
I remember seeing this in a packed theater. Best movie-going experience ever. Everytime the Joker was onscreen was palpably exciting. I used all of my allowance to go and see this movie about 11 times in theaters haha
I got to see this on first day of release at midnight screening, and seeing with the crowd i watched it with is a hightlight in my movie going experience.
Full disclosure...I LOVE the "Dark Knight"! For my money, it's the finest superhero film of all time, and it's not close. Conversely, "I feel "Heat" is totally overrated and overhyped. The legacy and impact of the "Dark Knight" cannot be overstated.
Hi guys just letting you know this is of my favourite things ever, this list has been incredible and three make every episode engaging and fun. Cal is the goat. Dan should be destroyed. Also I've been hearing Clint's voice for probably more than 7 years by now and I've never gotten tired of it
The Dark Knight is my #1 film. I don't care if there are better films out there, this is my #1. But the spiel about how ridiculous the "find a bullet - build a machine to replicate the destroyed bullet - to get a thumb print off he bullet (which wouldn't be on the bullet, the print would be on the casing) - only for Joker to somehow plan for Batman to somehow find out about the location of the swat-team-held-hostage" is 100% accurate. Doesn't change my mind on this being one of the best movies of all time.
Something I'm loving about the top 100 is how often I return to a movie I didn't really like my initial viewing but on the rewatch I like it a lot more Dark Knight still isn't in the upper echelon of superhero movies for me but I finally get why it is for other people now
1987 was the best year for cinema. Predator, Robocop, Spaceballs, The Princess Bride, The Lost Boys, The Untouchables, The Running Man, Fatal Attraction, Lethal Weapon, Raising Arizona, Adventures in Babysitting, No Way Out, Wall Street, The Last Emperor, Over the Top, Harry and the Hendersons, Innerspace, La Bamba, Dirty Dancing, Full Metal Jacket, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, Platoon, Beverly Hills Cop 2, Three Men and a Baby, Crocodile Dundee, The Golden Child, and Three Amigos!
This was the movie that set me on the track to being a cinephile. My parents took me to see it in theaters at 10 and it was one of the first movies of that kind that I saw in the theater. I remember staring at the screen in awe thinking “movies can do THAT??” It might be cliche but I will always always love this movie and be grateful for it. Alex, you HOLD the line! Lol. I’m pretty sure I agreed with everything you said. It’s a superhero movie first and Gotham is just absurd in every Batman product as is Batman’s whole deal, so I think some of the issues discussed are just issues with source material. A lot of it was ridiculous but calling out that broken glass or property damage…it’s a superhero movie first and foremost! It gave us enough realism to be a great transitional movie. Also agreed with the fast pace…this was probably the first movie I could hold focus for that long which likely enabled me to try other movies at that age. I can acknowledge that saying it was effective for a 10 year old is NOT objectively helpful, but I think this was the introduction for so many people of my generation for movies as art and not just entertainment, and openness to superhero movies! I loved Spiderman and X-men but this was more impactful to me and the world at the time. Alex is only 6 years older than me so I’m glad someone closer to my age group was there to speak to it. But as ALWAYS I feel I benefit and learn from discussion and dissent so the other perspectives are valuable even if I think they’re unfair at times. While for some of this I kinda clutched my pearls, a great episode for a GREAT😉 movie.
I really liked most of Dark Knight except for the boat scene. I dont believe no one wouldve pushed the button on the civilian boat. It only takes one person to escalate the tension, and everyone wouldve went crazy, and someone wouldve pushed that button. I liked what happened on the prison boat
I think Heath Ledger's performance was the exact reason everyone cites this movie as the best of the trilogy. I've always thought Begins was the better movie! Everything established in Begins gets thrown out the window in TDK and I've never thought it was better for those reasons.
I think Clint's issues with the movie's pacing are only exacerbated by the score. I haven't seen this in a while, and only 2 or 3 times, but my recollection is that Hans Zimmer never shuts up in this movie.
2008 as the greatest movie year? Really..? 2000 gave us Snatch, Gladiator, Memento, In the Mood for Love, Remember the Titans, O Brother, Where Art Thou?, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Dancer in the Dark, Shadow of the Vampire, The Emperor's New Groove, Yi yi, Amores Perros, Werckmeister Harmonies, Billy Elliot, Best in Show, and of course Requiem for a Dream - possibly the best movie of the 00's...
i can understand not thinking that the dark knight deserves it's current #3 spot on the imdb top 250..... fair enough. but you guys are trying to tell me that Hot Fuzz, La Haine, Robin Hood, Independence Day, Being There, and Anchorman are all better movies? GTFO.......
18:02 the actual quote is “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness” which I think makes your point even more strongly.
There is another instance of blood. Gotta play it slow, but there's a huge ass squib on Gary Oldman's back when he gets shots in the funeral scene. Arguably, this is not 'blood' because Gordon faked his death, but it is certainly made to look like blood.
Okay, I'm gonna put this down and anyone can correct me if I'm off-base, but either everyone is wrong about this or I am: The Joker doesn't have a plan. He's not lying to Harvey when he says he's an "Agent of Chaos" he simply has a goal and a set of contingencies in response to other people's plans. He's "Ahead of the Curve." Here's how it works: - He doesn't know that anyone is going to find the fingerprint on the bullet, but he has an egg-timer path set up in case someone does. - He doesn't know that Gordon is going to fake his death or that he is going to get caught, but he has a man with a bomb in place in case he does. He is finding a path of least resistance between his starting point and his goal by acting in response to plans. I think we all get it wrong when we envision his "Plan" as this linear path, but in reality it's a sprawling web where he can constantly adapt to the chaos as it's presented. I'm not suggesting that this direction is less contrived or more realistic, but I just think everyone seems to fail to grasp it because we (like the Joker's enemies) can only seem to perceive order where he thrives on chaos.
"In case he does" is having a plan. Youre just describing contingencies to the plan. I think it makes more sense that he is just lying and trying to force his ideology about chaos
@ Perhaps, I mean it’s a counter-plan. The point within the point, however, is that the Joker’s “plan” isn’t some neigh-psychic, hyper-convoluted game of 4D chess. It’s an ever-evolving series of responses.
I unironically agree. At the time I was mad that we were losing Keaton, so that definitely coloured my perception of his performance. When I watched it again earlier this year, it struck me how much better his Batman was compared to my memory of it. I still prefer Keaton, but I respect Kilmer's rendition.
"The Dark Knight" is a genuine moral epic about two individuals driven by opposing views of human nature and I am so glad Christopher Nolan took it to the extreme that he did. I keep hearing that this is not an origin story for the Joker, but if that's true why does he tell so many stories about his life?
The hatred for this film is out of proportion to its quality (script, acting, visuals, score). I was disappointed with the dismissal of what is the most important scene in the film, the interrogation scene. It's not just a narrative bridge between plot points, but THE moment in film that reveals the story's best secret: the Joker is not crazy. We're thrown a curveball when Alfred says "Some men just want to watch the world burn," but the Joker has a tangible purpose. Ostensibly he's being paid to destroy Batman, but that's just for show. He actually wants to win an argument against his only equal that all the people of Gotham that Batman's trying to save are villains at heart. Following his dialogue in that scene: (I've skipped a few lines, but it's still a little long) "You didn't disappoint. You let five people die." - I'm in control here. "Those mob fools want you gone so they get back to the way things were." -- I made them beg me to get rid of you. "But I know the truth. There's no going back." -- But I'm not doing it for them. "I don't want to kill you!" -- In fact, I'm not going to do it at all. "You, you complete me." -- You're my only equal who understands true evil. You are my real purpose. "Don't talk like one of them. You're not." -- Admit it. You do. "Their morals, their code, is a bad joke." -- I'm not the clown. They are. "They're only as good as the world allows them to be." -- Good has a glass ceiling, evil does not, and will win by its magnitude. "See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve." -- I AM NOT CRAZY. I see the world as it really is. "You have all these rules and you think they'll save you." -- And I'm going to make you see it as it really is. "The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules." -- Your code will betray you and I will win. "Look at you go." -- Just as I planned. I am controlling you. "Killing is making a choice." -- But I've given you this one choice. "You have nothing, nothing to threaten me with." -- But's that's also an illusion. You've already lost, you just don't realize it yet. That's my interpretation, anyway, but knowing the Joker isn't crazy makes the film soooo much better.
They really got hung up on the window shattering in a loud busy city and the bank robbers making the hostages hold grenades… the movie wasn’t for you because of that? 😂
34:02 argument on whether Dent broke the gun or not. He removed the slide. This is an action movie trope. Jet Li did it in Lethal Weapon 4, except Dent was a little slow. If the gun didn't jam (it didn't fire), he would have been shot. He disarmed the man only after it jammed.
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who doesn't really care for this movie. I understand why people like it but it didn't connect with me. I do love Heath Ledger's performance and some of the visuals but that's about it. I've always felt like I'm committing a true offense when I say I don't care for it
If not the best (could be 🤔), it is the most important quality superhero movie of all times - it really ''changed everything'' - RIP magnificent Heath Ledger who elevated this movie to the rank of masterpieces 🙌 To strike this movie out of your list is just WRONG.
The more of these videos I watch, the less I feel inclined to continue. It's become increasingly clear that Clint is the only one with a suitably wide frame of reference to formulate critical assessments, and a capacity to explain his opinions with nuance and value. I appreciate you guys are having fun with these, but every episode feels more and more like movie critic 'amateur hour'.
Even back in the day I liked "Batman Begins" more. This is in large part because Nolan's dialogue often rubs me the wrong way, and it was at it's worst IMO in TDK. Heath Ledger aside, the movie kind of drags.
Clint and Cal need to get outside and touch some grass. This movie is great if you havent been stuck in an internet hot-take vortex for the last 15 years
Great work having multiple Kraven The Hunter ads during your rant against comic book movies. Mama Mia is a banger movie? Meryl sounds good only because of Pierce At least in Ironweed Meryl knew people wanting to hear her sing was delusional.
Saying Dark Knight is one of the best films of the 21st century while simultaneously comparing it to Cocomelon is pretty bonkers and embarrassing. Are yall listening to yourselves?
At what point does the 'cape shit' bit (and stuff like it) just become basic bitch stuff? I think it might've been a couple of years ago, tbh. Couldn't help but roll my eyes every time.
![[FULL] RETROSPECTIVE : Final Fantasy Tactics](/img/1.gif)
I’ve cracked Dan’s algorithm. I’ve been keeping a spreadsheet for over a year now of each top 100 movie that pops onto the list. Dan took everyone’s rating and averaged them. So for Terminator 2 (Alex=1, Cal=100, Clint=7, Dan=7), the average would be 28.7. If someone did not have the movie on their list, it’s considered to be 110th place on their list. (I could have made this post a long time ago, but I’ve been waiting for a long time for enough data to determine this exact number, and the last episode clinched it.) So for The Dark Knight (Michael=110, Alex=18, Clint=110, Dan=110), the average is 87. Then Dan sorted all the movies by their average, and that’s the list. Hopefully someone else out there was as intrigued with this as I was.
That is truly an ungodly algorithm.
Is there anywhere that the top 100 is being shared? I wanted to see what the list is looking like but IGN and Cinefix have not been sharing its progress.
Not the hero we deserve but a hero we needed.
Who's Dan?
@@jackwoolnough6684It's in the description.
No mention of Michael Cain and his awesome performance. And the great line "Some men just want to watch the world burn".
Some of the nit-picking here is very silly. You can do this to pretty much any movie. Still, fun to watch folks discuss it.
Cal striking isn't an issue, but his rant was total nonsense, Team Alex once again, increasingly she's the only voice of reason and good taste lol
I agree. Striking this movie because producers used its high sales numbers to justify making more movies that also did well, but you personally didn't like, is a petty move IMO.
It's great that Tarantino "steals" from the classics but if Nolan does that's bad?
26:50
In the words of the Joker, "And here we go..."
Annoyance at the general haughty demeanor in this aside, they're not even entirely correct about the Joker's mask being a reference to The Killing. It was more directly an homage to the Joker's mask from his first appearance on Batman '66.
"When the chips are down, these...'civilized'...people, they'll EAT eachother."
I came here to comment this as well. All too true.
You saw The Dark Knight too?
but they ultimately didn't
We are about to find out for reals..
Leopards are about to eat lots of peoples faces..
The Dark Knight totally deserved to be on the list #TEAMALEX
and much higher, I usually agree with Clint but not this time, this is a top 10 movie of all time, though I do agree that it is mostly because of Heath, otherwise it would be a top 50 of all time maybe, the script, the characters, the scenes, the music, the themes, the plot twists, few movies can compete with the tight complexity of this movie, there is no perfect movie but this is a damn near good one
I feel like Transformers is more responsible for bad Hollywood decisions
Anchorman stays and this gets struck? Kay...
“I think he breaks the gun.” C’mon, son.
I guess Cal's not a gun guy
It is because he takes out the slide and it makes the gun look broken. But
carmawarlock is right that Cal is obviously not a gun guy.
You guys actually striked The Dark Knight!!!!
Very surprised at you guys having it in for this film. While I felt for Cal losing his Uncut Gems, I think the reasoning for dumping this was nonsense.
Would have been wonderful if the only choice in that envelope was Interstellar 😂.
Happy with Hard Boiled. Was blown away watching that when it was released.
This was a bit of a frustrating listen. There’s too much unnecessary nitpicking that really drags down the flow. Alex feels like the only genuine one here, while the other two seem to try too hard to be seen as "cool" by not liking a super popular movie. However, it’s clear they do enjoy it, especially Cal, who seems to appreciate many elements of the film. Yet, they constantly undercut their own enjoyment with little jabs whenever they express something positive.
It's not them trying to be cool, it's the fact that superhero fatigue is a real thing especially for people like the cinefix cast whose jobs revolve around movies. It's hard to enjoy something, even if you can acknowledge the good about it, when the entire genre it's a part of is almost singlehandedly ruining your favorite art form
@@joshstark1862 Alex feeling like the only genuine one is a bit of a constant for the series tbf, it's usually not too bad but it was dire in this one. I'd be very interested to just see her top 100 when it's all said and done, I bet it's banger after banger
And the idea that the car chase is bad because it violates the 180 degree rule is nonsense. Literally no one watched that scene and wasn’t enthralled. New cool things kept happening with characters you were fully invested in. You can break the rules in favour of the spirit of the scene, which Nolan achieved.
The idea that you can only make a good movie or scene by slavishly following the rules in a textbook is anti-cinema.
The fact that they struck this film is emblematic of a problem with the retrospective analysis of another movie that they kind of shrugged off in this episode, Citizen Kane. They're both all-time greats, but the fact that they've been so widely accepted as greats for so long it makes it so they can never live up to their reputation on rewatch. That doesn't mean you don't consider them though. There has to be room on a list like this for movies whose legacy precedes them, that made such an indelible mark on the industry and culture that they can't be ignored, no matter how boring or cliche that might seem.
I mean, they kind of do that with Seven Samurai right? Except that, in their opinion (if I understand them correctly), the movie still holds up.
I wonder if the most influential movies needs to be seperated from best? Historic? Like, ultimately, it's going to be opinion about what goes on a list or not, but I think they ARE considering the historic impact, but they give it less weight than others might.
A counter-argument to this being struck: This isn't the movie that ruined Hollywood. It was Iron Man which was released during the same summer (as mentioned early in the episode) and is the template for what Marvel movies became.
Ya that was a good movie too though. If there was a problem about the means and formula of the movies getting stale and repetative it would be marvel movies. The Batman franchise has stayed relatively fresh. No one argues that Spiderman caused the MCU. So ya I'd say Iron Man should take the brunt of the blame
@@AkiVainio yup, how Cal with a straight face can claim TDK is responsible for the MCU when Iron Man is literally right there.....
If I ever get to be part of making a top 100 list, The Dark Knight would be my number 1. I watch it atleast once a year.
After watching the video. It's surprising to me the amount of dislike Clint and Cal had for this movie considering the amount of times The Dark Knight has been mentioned in Cinefix Lists. You have Independence Day higher than The Dark Knight? Come on. This just cements to me that I disagree with Cal's movie tastes for the most part. Striking The Dark knight, considered the best of it's genre, and writing off the superhero genre as a whole is mind boggling. Uncut Gems had it's merits but it was a hard watch.
I think the brilliance behind The Dark Knight is it's a comic book movie, but doesn't feel like a comic book movie. It is so grounded, outside of Batman's gadgets, it could be any "rogue cop" movie from the 70s. If you took away the names Batman and the Joker, and got them out of their costumes, you would never know it's a comic book movie. I don't really compare it to the MCU, or the DCEU, or even the Batman movies before it. It's actual cinema as Scorsese would say. I wouldn't even call it the best Super Hero movie. It's just the best movie to ever feature a Superhero. And Heath Ledger's performance is on the short list of best performances in Movie History.
This is still my favorite theater experience ever. I saw the midnight showing on my birthday, July 18th, with all my close friends at the time. The theater joined my friends in singing ‘Happy Birthday’ to me right before the movie started. Experiencing that and then watching this masterpiece of a film! That’s what you call a core memory
I remember it being so packed I had to sit on the steps
To me, one of the greatest movies of that year, and a general movie. I do think this movies wasn’t guilty of the ruin of current Hollywood. This was mostly because of the MCU, despite their highs sometime. It’s guilty of two part: 1) the urgency of making dark-tone blockbuster (or at least promoting them that way) -this includes the DCEU-; 2) Nolan’s toxic fanboyism (there’s a fun joke about it the Dark Knight honest trailer and Citizen Kane)
Im shocked by you two, utterly. I dont see any of what you see, i just let it all flow without analysing. I adore this film.
not having this on your list is a straight up crime...
frankly this discussion was extremely disapointing from the guys.
You really striked this movie, Cal? This movie is absolutely fucking awesome!
This might be the first time, that I am completely on Team Alex!
Also: there are ridiculous choices in all of your Top 100s: Uncut Gems? Independence Day? Anchorman? Disneys Robin Hood? Three Amigos? The Burbs?
And you guys really put your dislike in this movie, probably just because it's fun now to jump on the 'this-movie-is-overrated"-train.
THIS MOVIE FUCKING BELONGS ON THE TOP 100!!!!
Of all the things to fucking strike
This is the one of the very very few movies where the antagonist is truly, in every sense of the words, equal and opposite to the protagonist and coming up a with script where all that makes even a little bit of sense is a massive achievement let alone doing it in a superhero movie
The best years in cinema were 1993 (Schindler's List, Jurassic Park, Name Of The Father, Groundhog Day, True Romance, Nightmare Before Christmas, Carlito's Way, The Fugitive, Philadelphia), 1994 (Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, Forrest Gump, Léon, Lion King) and 1995 (Se7en, The Usual Suspects, Heat, Braveheart, Toy Story, Casino, Before Sunrise, 12 Monkeys, Apollo 13).
I think the choice to bash this movie for two hours hurts Cinefix’s brand. This podcast has raved about The Burbs and Three Amigos, but the Dark Knight is crap? If the only factor you judge by is childhood nostalgia, I don’t know if I want to watch this anymore
to blame the current comic book glut on the Dark Knight… does the MCU happen if TDK doesnt exist? yes, it absolutely would..only films the “grit” affected was the DC line…everyone else that had shifted to “grit” took it from Bourne Conspiracy
98 minutes for “the jokers best line”
Harvey Dents arc as the ultimate tragic foil/contagonist is a chefs kiss and a highly unrecognized yet key foundational ingredient to what makes this film perfect.
I'm a bit older, but 1982 was the best year for genre cinema. The Thing, Poltergeist, Blade Runner, Conan, ET (not my taste), Creepshow, The Verdict, Sophie's Choice, Halloween 3, Tron, Star Trek Wrath of Khan, Cat People, etc...
I am Alex on this. I love this movie and it was the first movie ever that made me go: “wow, this is what you can do with movies”. All its flaws don’t matter to me and never will. I’ll gladly watch it at any moment of the day!
@@timleegte9375 first movie I sat through at 3 hours and thought I could easily do it again, even Fellowship I felt coulda been cut down originally (love it now though)
I also love Bruces arc in this film ...
He realizes his childhhood trauma in not simply the source of why he cant have the good qualties of Harvey ... outward charisma, fight crime lawfully, healthy relationships ... its also the source of his strength and armor against becoming what a naive, ignorant, and untested Dent became in the face of adult trauma .. unlawful, morally fluid, and vengeful.
Bruce then realizing he cant take off the costume figuratively .. it is him and he is it.
There are things he cannot be which his trauma has made him go without but you cant miss what you've never had and thats a sacrifuce he can afford to make because its the life he has always lived and one he can keep living.
Whats one more day.
Beautiful.
I remember seeing this in a packed theater. Best movie-going experience ever. Everytime the Joker was onscreen was palpably exciting. I used all of my allowance to go and see this movie about 11 times in theaters haha
I got to see this on first day of release at midnight screening, and seeing with the crowd i watched it with is a hightlight in my movie going experience.
It was this episode where Cal showcased his pretentious attitude to movies
This movie shouldn't be on the list BUT, for the love of Alex, it shouldn't have been struck!
When Joker tells Batman, "You complete me!" , is he quoting Jerry Maguire? I like to think he is.
Lego Batman seemed to think so
Ive lost trust in Cal. These arguments are misplaced and causally incoherent. This was a highly unenjoyable watch.
Only thing more criminal than striking this, is not mentioning Love Exposure while going through what 2008 had to offer
Full disclosure...I LOVE the "Dark Knight"! For my money, it's the finest superhero film of all time, and it's not close. Conversely, "I feel "Heat" is totally overrated and overhyped. The legacy and impact of the "Dark Knight" cannot be overstated.
I've tried to watch "Heat" three times and never made it to the halfway point. Something about it just doesn't interest me in the slightest.
@@stingfan16ify Heat is a snorefest, I'm glad Nolan renewed it
I saw this movie in the theatre. I was the only one in the audience who laughed when Joker made the pencil disappear.
Hi guys just letting you know this is of my favourite things ever, this list has been incredible and three make every episode engaging and fun. Cal is the goat. Dan should be destroyed. Also I've been hearing Clint's voice for probably more than 7 years by now and I've never gotten tired of it
Clint's batman voice is pretty good! I'm sad Dark Knight was pushed out, but now no one has a strike and all movies will stand from here.
The Dark Knight is my #1 film. I don't care if there are better films out there, this is my #1.
But the spiel about how ridiculous the "find a bullet - build a machine to replicate the destroyed bullet - to get a thumb print off he bullet (which wouldn't be on the bullet, the print would be on the casing) - only for Joker to somehow plan for Batman to somehow find out about the location of the swat-team-held-hostage" is 100% accurate.
Doesn't change my mind on this being one of the best movies of all time.
Cal just wants to watch the world burn
Something I'm loving about the top 100 is how often I return to a movie I didn't really like my initial viewing but on the rewatch I like it a lot more
Dark Knight still isn't in the upper echelon of superhero movies for me but I finally get why it is for other people now
#JusticeForSpeedRacer
1987 was the best year for cinema. Predator, Robocop, Spaceballs, The Princess Bride, The Lost Boys, The Untouchables, The Running Man, Fatal Attraction, Lethal Weapon, Raising Arizona, Adventures in Babysitting, No Way Out, Wall Street, The Last Emperor, Over the Top, Harry and the Hendersons, Innerspace, La Bamba, Dirty Dancing, Full Metal Jacket, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, Platoon, Beverly Hills Cop 2, Three Men and a Baby, Crocodile Dundee, The Golden Child, and Three Amigos!
This was the movie that set me on the track to being a cinephile. My parents took me to see it in theaters at 10 and it was one of the first movies of that kind that I saw in the theater. I remember staring at the screen in awe thinking “movies can do THAT??” It might be cliche but I will always always love this movie and be grateful for it.
Alex, you HOLD the line! Lol. I’m pretty sure I agreed with everything you said. It’s a superhero movie first and Gotham is just absurd in every Batman product as is Batman’s whole deal, so I think some of the issues discussed are just issues with source material. A lot of it was ridiculous but calling out that broken glass or property damage…it’s a superhero movie first and foremost! It gave us enough realism to be a great transitional movie.
Also agreed with the fast pace…this was probably the first movie I could hold focus for that long which likely enabled me to try other movies at that age. I can acknowledge that saying it was effective for a 10 year old is NOT objectively helpful, but I think this was the introduction for so many people of my generation for movies as art and not just entertainment, and openness to superhero movies! I loved Spiderman and X-men but this was more impactful to me and the world at the time.
Alex is only 6 years older than me so I’m glad someone closer to my age group was there to speak to it. But as ALWAYS I feel I benefit and learn from discussion and dissent so the other perspectives are valuable even if I think they’re unfair at times. While for some of this I kinda clutched my pearls, a great episode for a GREAT😉 movie.
i think clint was enjoying meming on the batman voice a little more than he could admit XD
Alfred as Bruce's Ghislaine Maxwell had me rolling
I watch this movie probably 13-15 times annually. It’s been a legit comfort movie for me for over 16 years. And it has aged like a fine wine.
Robert Downey Jr deserved the Oscar for supporting actor over Heath Ledger that year for Tropic Thunder.
I really liked most of Dark Knight except for the boat scene. I dont believe no one wouldve pushed the button on the civilian boat. It only takes one person to escalate the tension, and everyone wouldve went crazy, and someone wouldve pushed that button. I liked what happened on the prison boat
I think Heath Ledger's performance was the exact reason everyone cites this movie as the best of the trilogy. I've always thought Begins was the better movie! Everything established in Begins gets thrown out the window in TDK and I've never thought it was better for those reasons.
Curious what the quote is but not enough to watch and hour and a half video lol
Something something dogs chasing cars
I think Clint's issues with the movie's pacing are only exacerbated by the score. I haven't seen this in a while, and only 2 or 3 times, but my recollection is that Hans Zimmer never shuts up in this movie.
2008 as the greatest movie year? Really..? 2000 gave us Snatch, Gladiator, Memento, In the Mood for Love, Remember the Titans, O Brother, Where Art Thou?, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Dancer in the Dark, Shadow of the Vampire, The Emperor's New Groove, Yi yi, Amores Perros, Werckmeister Harmonies, Billy Elliot, Best in Show, and of course Requiem for a Dream - possibly the best movie of the 00's...
i can understand not thinking that the dark knight deserves it's current #3 spot on the imdb top 250..... fair enough.
but you guys are trying to tell me that Hot Fuzz, La Haine, Robin Hood, Independence Day, Being There, and Anchorman are all better movies?
GTFO.......
18:02 the actual quote is “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness” which I think makes your point even more strongly.
finally, "MY DOGS ARE HuNGRY!!"
There is another instance of blood. Gotta play it slow, but there's a huge ass squib on Gary Oldman's back when he gets shots in the funeral scene. Arguably, this is not 'blood' because Gordon faked his death, but it is certainly made to look like blood.
Okay, I'm gonna put this down and anyone can correct me if I'm off-base, but either everyone is wrong about this or I am:
The Joker doesn't have a plan. He's not lying to Harvey when he says he's an "Agent of Chaos" he simply has a goal and a set of contingencies in response to other people's plans. He's "Ahead of the Curve." Here's how it works:
- He doesn't know that anyone is going to find the fingerprint on the bullet, but he has an egg-timer path set up in case someone does.
- He doesn't know that Gordon is going to fake his death or that he is going to get caught, but he has a man with a bomb in place in case he does.
He is finding a path of least resistance between his starting point and his goal by acting in response to plans. I think we all get it wrong when we envision his "Plan" as this linear path, but in reality it's a sprawling web where he can constantly adapt to the chaos as it's presented.
I'm not suggesting that this direction is less contrived or more realistic, but I just think everyone seems to fail to grasp it because we (like the Joker's enemies) can only seem to perceive order where he thrives on chaos.
"In case he does" is having a plan. Youre just describing contingencies to the plan. I think it makes more sense that he is just lying and trying to force his ideology about chaos
@ Perhaps, I mean it’s a counter-plan. The point within the point, however, is that the Joker’s “plan” isn’t some neigh-psychic, hyper-convoluted game of 4D chess. It’s an ever-evolving series of responses.
I love this film, but I couldn’t make it 5 minutes through this pretentious bunch of charlatans
Nothing says movie snobbery quite like “I hate all superhero movies”
It’s true, I am not wearing hockey pads
Clint: I'm a big fan of movie shorthands
Clint, 30 seconds later: every shorthand this movie takes is bad and ruins the whole thing for me.
Eerie in 2008, just sad now: "I'm not a monster...I'm just ahead of the curve"
I will not do anything to defend this opinion, so do not expect a comment war. VAL KILMER IS GOOD AS BATMAN
I unironically agree. At the time I was mad that we were losing Keaton, so that definitely coloured my perception of his performance. When I watched it again earlier this year, it struck me how much better his Batman was compared to my memory of it. I still prefer Keaton, but I respect Kilmer's rendition.
"The Dark Knight" is a genuine moral epic about two individuals driven by opposing views of human nature and I am so glad Christopher Nolan took it to the extreme that he did. I keep hearing that this is not an origin story for the Joker, but if that's true why does he tell so many stories about his life?
The hatred for this film is out of proportion to its quality (script, acting, visuals, score). I was disappointed with the dismissal of what is the most important scene in the film, the interrogation scene. It's not just a narrative bridge between plot points, but THE moment in film that reveals the story's best secret: the Joker is not crazy. We're thrown a curveball when Alfred says "Some men just want to watch the world burn," but the Joker has a tangible purpose. Ostensibly he's being paid to destroy Batman, but that's just for show. He actually wants to win an argument against his only equal that all the people of Gotham that Batman's trying to save are villains at heart. Following his dialogue in that scene: (I've skipped a few lines, but it's still a little long)
"You didn't disappoint. You let five people die." - I'm in control here.
"Those mob fools want you gone so they get back to the way things were." -- I made them beg me to get rid of you.
"But I know the truth. There's no going back." -- But I'm not doing it for them.
"I don't want to kill you!" -- In fact, I'm not going to do it at all.
"You, you complete me." -- You're my only equal who understands true evil. You are my real purpose.
"Don't talk like one of them. You're not." -- Admit it. You do.
"Their morals, their code, is a bad joke." -- I'm not the clown. They are.
"They're only as good as the world allows them to be." -- Good has a glass ceiling, evil does not, and will win by its magnitude.
"See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve." -- I AM NOT CRAZY. I see the world as it really is.
"You have all these rules and you think they'll save you." -- And I'm going to make you see it as it really is.
"The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules." -- Your code will betray you and I will win.
"Look at you go." -- Just as I planned. I am controlling you.
"Killing is making a choice." -- But I've given you this one choice.
"You have nothing, nothing to threaten me with." -- But's that's also an illusion. You've already lost, you just don't realize it yet.
That's my interpretation, anyway, but knowing the Joker isn't crazy makes the film soooo much better.
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stranger!
Has anyone here ever watched Patrick Willem's video about how Imax made Christopher Nolan a better filmmaker?
They really got hung up on the window shattering in a loud busy city and the bank robbers making the hostages hold grenades… the movie wasn’t for you because of that? 😂
This was a really annoying episode. Why don’t you guys hold up that microscope to movies that actually deserve it?
34:02 argument on whether Dent broke the gun or not. He removed the slide. This is an action movie trope. Jet Li did it in Lethal Weapon 4, except Dent was a little slow. If the gun didn't jam (it didn't fire), he would have been shot. He disarmed the man only after it jammed.
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who doesn't really care for this movie. I understand why people like it but it didn't connect with me. I do love Heath Ledger's performance and some of the visuals but that's about it. I've always felt like I'm committing a true offense when I say I don't care for it
Captain America: The Winter Soldier also follows the alone against the world theme. Even more than The Dark Knight, in my opinion.
People got swept up in Marvel between Raimi Spider-Man and the MCU later on. But this movie showed comic book movies could be art.
I would argue that Begins was equally artistic, but to each their own.
I love Memento so much :(
I wonder how long it will be, before we get to number 1 on the list.
If not the best (could be 🤔), it is the most important quality superhero movie of all times - it really ''changed everything'' - RIP magnificent Heath Ledger who elevated this movie to the rank of masterpieces 🙌 To strike this movie out of your list is just WRONG.
This movie doesn't get interesting for me until the body hits the window. After that, I'm all in.
The more of these videos I watch, the less I feel inclined to continue. It's become increasingly clear that Clint is the only one with a suitably wide frame of reference to formulate critical assessments, and a capacity to explain his opinions with nuance and value.
I appreciate you guys are having fun with these, but every episode feels more and more like movie critic 'amateur hour'.
Yes!! Finally 🎉
Guys please get a platform for updates 😅
batman begins IS better than TDK - yes, Clint! Bravo
I say thru 40+ episodes of movies I’ve either liked or tolerated to get to my favorite super hero movie and they dump on it.
Even back in the day I liked "Batman Begins" more. This is in large part because Nolan's dialogue often rubs me the wrong way, and it was at it's worst IMO in TDK. Heath Ledger aside, the movie kind of drags.
the lack of establishing shots is a valid critique? lol
clint i forgive you for uncut gems since you admitted that batman begins is better than TDK. I always knew you were enlightened.
Clint, I'm sorry that TDK doesn't have the same glib whimsy of Jaws...
Nolan forever! (
Clint and Cal need to get outside and touch some grass. This movie is great if you havent been stuck in an internet hot-take vortex for the last 15 years
This Dark Knight slander cannot stand!
Great work having multiple Kraven The Hunter ads during your rant against comic book movies.
Mama Mia is a banger movie? Meryl sounds good only because of Pierce At least in Ironweed Meryl knew people wanting to hear her sing was delusional.
Nitpicking is the displacement activity of the film critic.
Saying Dark Knight is one of the best films of the 21st century while simultaneously comparing it to Cocomelon is pretty bonkers and embarrassing. Are yall listening to yourselves?
At what point does the 'cape shit' bit (and stuff like it) just become basic bitch stuff?
I think it might've been a couple of years ago, tbh. Couldn't help but roll my eyes every time.
Most modern car chases are confusing/hard to follow.
One of Cinefix’s Top 100…and yet this is just nonstop nonsense about how bad it is.