The Deadliest Company In Human History | Answers With Joe
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- Опубликовано: 27 апр 2024
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Spices might be the single thing in history that most shaped our world today. That sounds crazy, but spices once were as valuable as gold. It was an international currency that created and destroyed civilizations and great cities, and enslaved millions. And along the way created the very economy we live under today, by way of the most powerful corporation in human history.
This is a video about the Spice Trade. And the world it created.
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LINKS LINKS LINKS:
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oec.world/en/profile/hs/spices
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_c...
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
2:13 - The Spice Trade
6:04 - Spices As a Status Symbol
7:29 - The History of Spice
11:07 - New Sea Routes
13:45 - Tangent Cam
15:18 - The Dutch East India Company
18:03 - Sponsor
19:08 - The Island of Ran
20:30 - Final thoughts 
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Hi all! I'm seeing a lot of comments saying I should do the Forgotten Atrocities series, well that first episode is up on Nebula. You can find it here: nebula.app/videos/joescott-forgotten-atrocities-the-banda-nutmeg-massacre
Yay
You might well make the argument (@1:35) that the spice trade is the one thing that explains the world as it is, and it's arguably so, but around 500 years ago when the spice trade was revolutionized by circumnavigation the entire world economy became driven by the Americas cotton industry for a couple of hundred years. I think that's a contender in the ring and is my pick. _♪I got the horse right here..._
well you finally did it. a youtuber got me to sign up for something.
edit- wait I have to sign up a subscription to both? CS just gives me access to Nebula? What ?
Do it!
@@MercilessMe it does, but you will have to set a new password for nebula i think, just click forgot password on nebula and your account will already be there
In Dutch we still have the expression of 'peperduur', which literally translates to 'expensive as pepper'. It's used for anything prohibitively expensive.
Huh, I never connected that... Grappig :-D
Factually correct!
kijk opa! een bruin reetje
German has "Pfeffersack", pepper sack, which denotes a man of extreme wealth. The word is a bit old-fashioned, but yeah, same idea.
What about 'Oost-Indisch doof' (East Indian deaf). It basically means you pretend to not hear a question being asked to you. Such a weird saying...
I would definitely watch a Forgotten Atrocities series! As much as I love your science-based videos, Joe, I think you have a very special touch with videos of a historical nature, and I'm always drawn to them.
Check out the "Behind the Bastards" podcast.
THIS! THIS! JUST SO MUCH THIS!
Yes. Please. Oh and... yes please.
@@radaro.9682 Can you be more specific? about the behind the bastards podcast?
100% he should. science , crazy history he does good research, tells facts , theories but doesnt lead you on to believe false information of whats actual facts i watch every episode either way i wanna smoke a bowl with him
I just counted 60-something bottles on our spice shelf. There is this bank in Canada that constantly insists on telling us: ‘’you are richer than you think’’. It took me this video to finally get it.
ahhh Scotia Bank, what a terrible place to bank (in my city that is).
@@unfortunately_fortunate2000 all banks are terrible now.
@@unfortunately_fortunate2000 i'm a TD man myself
From the same bank that will freeze your accounts for not touting the Party line. They should have said "we" instead of "you."
11:50 Portuguese guy here! During the times our sailors were trying to surpass this Cape, they would call it the *Cape of Storms* ("Cabo das Tormentas") because, like you said, the place was constantly under heavy storms.
Only after many tries, when they actually managed to sail arround it, did they name it *Cabo da Boa Esperença* (literally "Cape of Good Hope"), because of the new hope it brought in our quest to get to India.
Hope this explains the name!
As an Indonesian I'm glad more RUclipsrs talk about this part of history. Dutch colonialism maybe not as widely known as other western colonialism, Spanish, Portuguese, British, American. Looking at the map it's amazing how tiny the Netherlands is yet controlling thousands of islands many many miles away for hundred of years. And how influential they're through out history but not many people are realizing it.
It’s good that this story is shared!
I always wondered how such a small country could be so powerful. Until I went to Google maps, zoomed in such that I exactly have the whole of Indonesia on my screen, and then scrolled back to Europe, and realized the Dutch controlled a territory as big as the whole of Western Europe (seriously, Indonesia is huge! West to East is basically the same distance as Amsterdam -> Moscow)
As a dutchman, i hate being reminded of the horrible atrocities..
With the golden age being as glorified as it is, most don't like thinking about the bad parts, and just think about the giant ships and the amazing wealth.
How that wealth was gained and those ships were built though.. Is usually left forgotten.
As a dutch person, couldn't agree more. To add, dutch schools don't teach enough about the bad side of it. Only that we got rich from it. (Also that's not true, rich people got rich, not the main population)
They even controlled eengland for a while and are the reason we predominantly use orange carrots... (orange being the national colour of Holland)
A while back, I was stocking spices at work when I turned to the other guy working in the aisle and said, "it's crazy to think that wars were fought over stuff like this". Now it's so common it's just assumed everyone has a cupboard for their forgotten treasures.
Next time you munch on a Hershey Bar, look up The Chocolate Wars.
@@willmfrank Calling Hershey's "chocolate flavoured" product "chocolate" is a bit of a stretch.
@@ckl9390 hershey used to be a lot more chocolate, but yk capitalism stepped in and decreased the actual cocoa in it
@@ckl9390 Hence the Chocolate Wars. I mean, if this is what we've got now, imagine what people had to go through to get the real thing!
@@willmfrank Or when you sip tea the whole opium wars (because of Tea)
"He or she who controls the Spice, controls the universe!" - Dune
Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
Thanks, we never would have gotten the reference if you hadn't added the: "Dune"
The spice must flow!
Apparently you could RENT a pineapple for display at your house back then. Kinda beats the purpose today but at the time it was a status symbol showcasing your wealth. So this became a profitable business.
Also, fun fact: when you’re eating a pineapple, it’s actually eating you too! It’s the only known source in nature with the enzyme Bromelain which digest protein. Both fascinating and unsettling :)
Today people rent a Ferrari or a Lamborghini for a day to show off to their neighbors. Only problem is that the bulk of these people don't know the power of the engines and crash them by putting the pedal to the metal, making the wheels spin out of control and brace themselves with one foot on the throttle, hahahah!
Yes I read an article about a year ago which mentioned that eating pineapple every day can get rid of "eye-floaters", due to the bromelain.
As a kid in the 90s, my mouth would break out in nasty sores from eating pineapple, and my mother joked, "It's like the pineapple is eating YOU." Now it turns out... MY MOTHER WAS RIGHT!
@@rhov-anion Mother knows best!
@@michaelwalsh5048 More likely to have diarrhea eating it everyday.
Was this a scientific article??
Well today I learned that the cyberpunk future everyone fears kind of already happened centuries ago with spices and wooden ships but with the same horrifically huge mega corporations.
Even more fun as Canadian I get to tell people that the company that once owned and controlled the country and the land I lived most my life in is now just a department store in the city.
History moves in cycles.
@@lukeh2556 And in The Netherlands HBC couldn’t successfully run its ventures and left again after only four years of failure.
Everything new under the sun has already been thought of, sort of thing?
Think of stock-issuing multinational slave and cash crop trade corporations.
The plant that produces saffron is something you can actually grow in a lot of places (ranging from Spain to Iran), the reason it's so pricy is because of the tiny window the actual saffron is ready/available to pick on top of the fact the process is SO labor-intensive. The harvesting has to be done manually. It takes 75,000 saffron flowers to make ONE POUND of it
And Dias actually named it the Cabo das Tormentas (Cape of Storms), it wasn't called the Cape of Good Hope until after Vasco da Gama when the Portuguese King John II renamed it
I wonder if perfecting vertical farms will bring the price down.
@@Stevie-J wtf 🤣
I’m growing it in west Michigan. It cost less than $30 for a couple dozen bulbs.
@@jasonjacoby look at OPs name.
@@jasonjacoby Nice last name btw.
Interesting co-occurence, if my memory of history lessons in high school is correct, King Pillip II of Spain was also the one who kicked off the 80-Years War between (catholic) Spain and (mostly protestant) Netherlands; one of the reasons the Dutch set up the VOC was to be able to pay for the war.
I lived in Indonesia for a while and there are a lot of similarities in the language to Afrikaans. It was surprising, but now the Dutch influence makes sense. Very sad about how the influence was brought about, but I suppose similar to how it was in South Africa too.
Interesting, in South Africa we have quite a big Malay influence due to slaves brought back from the East by the Dutch. From our food to our language. Afrikaans at the time mainly spoken by white Europeans in South Africa is an interesting point. While most Afrikaans speakers are Christian (or aligned to descendants of Protestant Christians) the first book written in Afrikaans was the Quran. A fact that most Afrikaans people today does not know.
I'd love to see a video on the story of the "retired" pirate Tomas Bacxter, who was contracted by Nieuw Amsterdam to build a wall to protect against indigenous tribes, but it failed because he used cheap materials and pocketed the money. I love the fact that an act of fraud by a pirate would ultimately be the origin story behind the name Wall Street.
Hah! yes i love that as well.
I had never actually looked up whatever became of that Wall, i only knew that it had a Dutch origin and that the Wallstreet stock market is based on the Dutch capitalist origins as well.
I was looking into it when Donald was going on about how walls work against invasions, and i wanted to make an ironic link to his money and his wall theories, but i guess i got sidetracked, because all i remember from that is that the wall failed.
EDIT: Whoops, forgot to mention the actual irony, of a guy pocketing the money and a shoddy wall as a result, which is exactly what happened with Donald's wall, pity that i didn't connect the dots back then, but thanks for pointing it out.
Americans love their walls !
@@malcolmhardwick4258 yes they do pip - good fences make good neighbors.
That reminds me every Russian general.. Instead of buying their tanks new tread or trucks new tires, they pocketed the money and are using tires from the 1990s.. hence them not working!
@@Stevie-JLets just hope Europe dosent try to destroy itself again !
I went down an East India Company rabbit whole a month or two ago. My favorite part was that the merchants would come up with some crazy ass stories to sell their exotic goods.
"This cinnamon could only be harvested once per year, because the island was guarded by gremlins, who could not protect the crops for one day a year because reasons."
Corporations were around during the Roman era too.
In fact, the Romans even stamped their goods to show where they came from.
@@phillip_iv_planetking6354 , Gold is useless. Spice is anticancer !!! That’s why I’m vegan. 4% cancer if you’re vegan. Gorillas never eat animals, and onepercent cancer in the wild. Humans eating animals, 51% death rate, causes a heart attack clogging up your arteries and cancer and high blood pressure no fibre. Stays in your body and rots a way : ruclips.net/video/KtK3KgSMHe4/видео.html .. ruclips.net/video/oziwBALKCEQ/видео.html 🤮
Nootka
@@phillip_iv_planetking6354 PUBLICLY TRADED companies werent
Part of the reason they did this was to hide their sources. They didn't want competitors thinking just anybody could harvest spices.
This is probably my favorite video of the channel. You guys did an amazing job "simplifying" the subject to make the big picture understandable, while at the same time making clear that are way more details and complex things involved on the process.
Tbf he did make a few mistakes to my knowledge, but the Idea was right
The Netherlands used to be so big in the spice trade, but never learned to properly use them. There is barely anyone here that cooks properly with spices. Most of our food is bland, low salt and no spice. People here think a little bit of black pepper is already spicy enough...
As someone with severe spice sensitivity, and a lot of various northern European ancestry, yes, black pepper is spicy. And besides the lack of salt, I'd probably really like Dutch food. I like German food a lot because they use herbs and spices (but not spicy) that don't rely on the heat. I think if you can't make something thattastes good without burning, ten you aren't really a good cook.
I was like "deadliest company? I wonder what that was." But then Joe started stacking spices, and I was like "I know where this is going "
It went to my country, just sad it turned from one of the worlds biggest to a shadowy empty shell
@@cherrydragon3120 Sad? They killed and enslaved thousands of us Indonesians. It's certainly strange, even fascinating to see a titan fall like that, but not *sad* I don't think!
@@mostlyimpulsive3462 unfair to hold them to today's standards
@@gram. Even by the standards of the time it was brutal.
@@gram. Can you spell "tone deaf"?
I understand the expense of saffron. I grow my own, because I can't afford it. Interesting side note: saffron is not only a spice, it is also a dye. I had a bumper crop, one year, and used the extra for dye. I wanted to see what the historically most expensive dye looked like. It is a beautiful pale yellow.
its charming to hear about very young people discovering things.
Wasn't the historically most expensive dye purple? As in Imperial purple? Saffron is still great though.
@@xJavelin1 Yes, you have a point. I think it was more expensive. Saffron would have cost less than that. Sorry. Wasn't thinking about that.
That's pretty cool that you grow it. Is it still considered a spice if it's the stamen of a flower, or is spice a much more generally defined than say nuts vs. legumes and fruits vs. vegetables? Fairly sure saffron dyes are what give Buddhist monks' robes their distinct colour too; but it's such a dark tone, you'd think it'd take A LOT of saffron to achieve.
@@meesalikeu Did you really have to make a “Aw looka da baby making his vewy first steps” comment?
JOE this was so good…I need more of these historical videos. Love the science, love the weird stuff but this was fabulous!
Love your videos, Joe. Just finished your video on the Nebula and loved it. Can’t wait for more! ☺️
Constantinople wasn't renamed to Istanbul until 1930, seven years after the modern-day Republic of Turkey was declared. The Ottomans called it Kostantiniyye (an Arabic calque of Constantinople) while Istanbul was colloquial.
And Brazil becoming Portuguese had to do with the Treaty of Tordesillas which was signed six years BEFORE Pedro's sail, this divided the Americas with a line. Anything west of the line belonged to Spain, anything east of the line belonged to Portugal. So under this treaty, Portugal got the eastern coast of what is now Brazil. That's why Pedro landed there.
thank you, so very few people know the history of my country. There's still people that think brazillians speak spanish, it's kinda weird.
That's the way I heard it. Something to do with the Pope, also.
Istanbul was Constantinople now it’s Istanbul not Constantinople been a long time gone since Constantinople, Turkish delight on a moonlit night, Istanbul was Constantinople now it’s Istanbul not Constantinople so if you’ve a date in Constantinople she’ll be wating in Istanbul, even old New York was once new Amsterdam, why’d they change it I can’t say, people just liked it better that way, so take me back to Constantinople, no you can’t go back to Constantinople, been a long time gone since Constantinople, why did Constantinople get the works? That’s nobody’s business but the turks
Some even say that Portugal already had discovered Brazil by then but kept it as a secret to better negotiate the Treaty of Tordesillas and claim those lands after.
@@rubenramos8900 i've heard that too, but the tordesillas treaty line was drawn taking to acount spanish discoveries in america and portuguese colony in Africa, being located half way between those two, i don't know if it has much ground to hold itself into
As a citizen of a former Dutch colony, it def feels a bit weird seeing videos about VoC from western creators because we're already learning about it in schools. Keep up the good work, Joe
In dutch schools the VoC is also a reocurring topic, horrible stuff.
What we learned at school and young kids still should be illegal that still those murders being honoured as hero's and have a statue in their birth town..
This is fascinating. What if any perspective differences are there?
@@rvaneman I dont remember them ever being made out to be heroes at school but go off
@@rvaneman history classes in the Netherlands are very objective actually... these people are never treated as heroes in Dutch history classes, but just as big players who were important to significant events... the only way you could NOT see this as objective is if you *wanted* them to be demonized
Your closing remarks reminded me of something from a novel I read. This organization developed time travel and at one point brought an ancient warrior to the present. The thing he was most amazed by? Topical pain relievers.
Electricity, telephones, cars, airplanes, guns? All impressive stuff. But lidocaine was *magic*.
You always give me a chuckle, even when I’m low. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Love to you and your team 😊
joe: "not making a dune reference"
also joe: "THE SPICE MUST FLOW!"
Frank Herbert was a bit of a scholar himself with a deep interest in history and ecology, which is why Arrakis was such a detailed creation. I have no doubt at all that Herbert researched and had a deep understanding of the historical spice trade when he began writing Dune. One thing that makes his complex books so accessible to the average reader is his tying in parts of the story to actual historical events and concepts that the reader likely already has some knowledge of.
That's one of the reasons Herbert was one of the best SF writers in history. With books like Dune and others, for every single fact written in the book there was probably ten or twenty pages of background and backstory material that Herbert researched and wrote to prepare for writing that into the book.
His overriding interest in ecology (in a scientific sense, not as an environmentalist) can be seen in most of his books, with _Hellstrom's Hive_ and _The Jesus Incident_ being great examples. The amount of research he must have done to prepare for writing his books must have been absolutely staggering. For most of his stories, the story itself is only the very tip of a vast, unseen iceberg. It's a reason why he was the best, period.
A dune reference
of a Dune's reference to the real world history
I would love to see the "forgotten Atrocities" series!
An interesting part of that could be how these subjects are taught in current history classes in those countries. For instance: 30 years ago I was taught to be proud of the dutch history in Indonesia. I was never taught the horrible things my country did to the local people.
I don´t know if it counts as an atrocity, but I was fascinated to hear the origin of "to the shores of Tripoli" and the founding of the US Navy... being the result of Barbary coast pirates and how they used to raid Europe, as far north as England? but mostly by capturing ships in the mediterranean, to enslave europeans to sell ... somewhere... was never clear where. It sounds completely wacky to modern ears, but there it is.
25 years ago I was tought that the VOC brought us great wealth, but that we got that wealth through many atrosities. The statue at 17:46 is Jan Pieterszoon Coen. It stands on the Roode steen in Hoorn. (which used to be a major port for the VOC) During history class we went in to town to see all the old buildings and learn of their history. At the statue we were tought that this man slaughtered whole villages for daring to trade with the English. Now there are people who want to remove the statue. But I don't know if I would have learned of the bad side of our history if it hadn't been there.
The first episode was excellent. Nebula subscription is cheap, and just the companion videos for Joe Scott and Real Life Lore are worth the price. Yes, I'm giving free advertisement for a company. If they become shitty in the future, please don't quote me.
@@camiloaa I just wish they accepted PayPal...
@@petersilva037 This was the US joining the already establish British slavery blockades 35 years after Britain ended slavery and set up the West Africa Squadron, to prevent any more slave trade from Africa and to blockade the Barbary Coast Pirates from raiding into Europe for white slaves (which got a higher price than their local peoples). Reports of Barbary raids and kidnappings of those in Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, England, Netherlands, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and as far north as Iceland exist from between the 16th to the 19th centuries..
Stunningly good overview with a broad perspective! Excellent storyline pulling one thread that ties so much together. Bravo!!
Great video. I appreciate your care in discussing tough subjects. I learned, in American schools, about the VoC. I think some people do not realize that students in America can often elect to take more advanced or specific history classes. Mine was AP European History in high school, and the instructor was well-versed in the subject. He did not hold back on his disdain for the EIC, VoC, and other organizations and governments that committed atrocities in the name of money and power. Keep it up, Mr. Scott.
Forgotten Atrocities! Yes, history suddenly becomes interesting to a committed technophile like me when presented in your inimitable way.
I think my love of tech actually stems from my enjoyment of history. There’s something amazing about how far we’ve come (for better or worse)
Have a look at Simon Whistler's "Into the Shadows".
Both my parents were Dutch. They moved to South Africa after the second world war. As a kid born in South Africa were taught amount Dutch East India Company at school. The Portuguese came to South Africa first, then Dutch "kick them out", then the English came and got rid of the Dutch. To make things even more messed up my wife is Portuguese. 🤣.
Traitor !!!
@@babagandu Valindaba.
robert eerlijk gezegd voc was niet alleen bezig met slaven handel maar ook geobsedeerd door specerijen(english translation robert to be fair the voc wasnt only bussy with slavery but they also where obsessed with spices and herbs, they would go nuts for that btw besides your parents, any other dutch people on here? laat het me weten, het is altijd interessant om andermans mening te horen over dit onderwerp, plus we krijgen dit al jong geleerd in school, zelfs kinderen van 6 /7 krijgen al les over wereld oorlog twee in bepaalde scholen
It happens, I have Native American and European blood, not to mention US North AND South - a walking war.
One of my favorite documentary series in the 80's was a BBC production called "The Spice of Life". Presented by Edward Woodward, it was in equal parts a history of the spice trade, a cooking show and a travelogue. Well worth a look if you can find it.
My man, I’m a Brazilian, and Pedro Álvares Cabral is one of the few things I remember from our history lessons. THANK YOU so much for finally explaining why the heck do the Portuguese sail further west when their goal was in the east! Why couldn’t history teachers have touched on the geography of ocean currents?!? Simply amazing how you me understand my own history better than my teachers! And yes please make that Nebula show! Can’t wait!
He has an additional video but the nebula thing is on curiosity isn't it?
"I have something downstairs that's actually pretty impressive. C'mere, let me just show you." Also Joe's best pickup line. 🤣
@@i.b.640 Don't we all.
I used to smoke spices until they banned them. That was some wicked shit. Felt like you were dying if you smoked too much. (Some people did die.)
This video is AMAZING! Im so glad I stumbled upon it!
I love that I've found you, I love the way you present things
As a Portuguese, I can tell you that it's pretty commun knowledge that Brasil was not a happy coincidence, but had already been discovered before 1500. That's why on the Tordesilhas treaty Portugal insisted on moving the line that devided the world a 100 miles west, so it would include Brasil
there are many things wrong with this video in terms of specifics... he also says New Amsterdam was traded for some small island but the Dutch also got back Suriname after the British occupied it
@@sig5816 yeah but the main point was good, spice and how companies influenced the world? it good to talk out this to unders=tan urrent events.
lol yeah I’d say Brasil had been discovered before 1500… people had been living there thousands of years before that!
Joe, the eclectic nature of your catalog is invigorating as well as educational. I feel your work has gone beyond "info-tainment" and can truly be regarded as simply-
important.
I do love your history/science mashups
I knew this story, but you make it sound so interesting that I enjoyed listening to it eventhough I knew all the info from before. Great video! :D
Could you just imagine how boring and tedious food would be without such commodity... it isn't surprising people would pay soo much for it! How lucky we are today to experience the power of spices for fraction of the price! Great video!
Timelapse, 5-10 days 🧟♂️🦠🍖🔴... (inside your stomach) ruclips.net/video/KtK3KgSMHe4/видео.html .. ruclips.net/video/oziwBALKCEQ/видео.html 🤮 NO fibre !!! Stays in your body and rots away 🤮🤮🤮🤮.....
That’s why I’m vegan, lots of fibre if you eat plants and fruit and nuts and berries and tubers and lentils beans et cetera. PH 7, no smell.
Which side of history are you on, Jeeffrey Dahmer 👓😩🦠🍖🔴... Or veganism ✅❤️💪😬😉 ??. You don’t hurt your cute little dog 😍🤗🐶🤥🤥🤥......
And yet us white people still don't know how to use them to this day.
It’s no wonder people were thinner back then. Some people just don’t use spices and yeah, their food is bland. While it’s technically not bad, it is bland.
I'd give up a lot of that to reduce human suffering. I kinda hate that our lives are only a thing because of how much people and the world's resources are exploited to make possible. I'd limit myself to locally sourced foodstuffs to reduce the impact of that. Easily. My quality of life isn't worth others pain. The world doesn't have to be zero sum like that.
@@GreenAppelPie people were smaller because of less nutritional content while lack of wealth meant less access to concentrated fats and sugars. Processed food has kinda done the worst of both worlds. Lacks nutrition and ups fat and sugar to addict. That plus general lack of time and money to care for oneself always has poor health consequences regardless of size of person. And this is a problem that has plagued humanity as long as we have had disparity in power. Leaders never seem to starve, do they?
Edited for clarity of meaning and to remove fat phobic reasoning.
He who controls the spice, controls the universe.
Dune...
The spice must flow.
One of your best videos yet! Quite fascinating. Please do more of these plus the Atrocities video (eeek!) and more Nebula videos. Woo hoo! 😃
Joe, your videos are just fantastic. Really love your work!!
As a dutch guy i can say the dark history of the voc is really interesting great video 👍🏻
The Netherlands and Portugal really are WAY up there with Poland in the ranks of "Holy shit how does this tiny country I only know about because they bordered fascist monsters in WW2 have such a long, blood soaked history?!"
thats true its dark but still the beginning of the world economic system. and so much more we the dutch are small but we sure made our impact in human and world history.
As an Indonesian, the VOC is like a main antagonist in our history books.
I don't even like nutmeg ~ and Dutch food (sorry) seems so bland - ???? (Facepalm - a very dark - dark -dark facepalm...).
@@painterly_porcine262 honestly our food is indeed really bland but thats fine we have foods from other countrys to enjoy
I just watched the forgotten Atrocity video and all I can say is please make it a semi-regular series, so much of our world is underpinned by this stuff that gets glossed over.
One of the best videos I´ve ever seen on YT. Congrats!
Thank you for sharing information that I was not aware of. Very interesting.
It's always a good idea to expose the horrors that were committed in the past, as it's one of the best ways to warn people about the possibilities of them happening again (if maybe not in the exact same way).
It was not only white people wiping out other tribes/peoples - In Africa, Black tribes were contastnly waring and wiping each other out. The Zulus for one erased many other peoples. The muslims have done it. The chinese have done it. The Japanese and on and on.
Not really ...
@@babagandu what about the food Africa wants out of Ukraine right now? Definitely not 1:1 comparable but still quite similar… don’t just use one source/stream for something food related…
Except people only expect horrors to be exposed one-way, the same old way, the white people bad way, if you dare to talk about the role african empires and the already-existing trans-saharan trade had in slavery you get discredited and called a racist. So if people aren't willing to discuss the horrors that aren't convenient to their narrative i'm not interested in discussing the ones that are.
We should also expose current atrocities and try to stop them.
I was confused about the spices then realized "oh yeah that's a thing that has happened"
Thanks Joe...just signed up for Curiosity to also get Nebula so I can watch your other videos. And I’m gonna also enjoy much of the other content. Dig your videos man. 👍
yes!! please do the forgotten atrocities series! I am sooooo interested!
Good job in compacting this theme and complex history in a short video. I follow you in Portugal and it's always nice to hear from others about our history (the good and the bad).
This was so good! Thank you, Joe!
Wow, Joe. I think this was your best video. Fascinating. Thanks!
The spice Melange is the perfect marriage of everything wrong about the history of spices and oil.
I am a Dutch guy, and I was completely shook when I first learned about the business practice of the VOC. In high school we were taught that this era was the 'Golden Age' for the Netherlands, and the slave trade and genocide was conveniently left out. I read a book recently by a Dutch writer, Roofstaat (roughly translates as 'State of Plunderers') by Ewald Vanvugt, which details the history of the Netherlands in much more detail. I am not sure if it has been translated into English, but if so, I would highly recommend it!
What I would like to understand is: was it common in those days or did the Dutch do far worse than others.
@@autohmae It was common but the VOC just did it on a larger scale
Everyone did it, and jt was practiced for much longer than you even realized. It's just the nations that were top great powers that committed some of the most memorable crimes because well, they were the big boys
What is interesting to think about is, the fact that you recognize some of the behavior from back then as being bad, is not as obvious as you might think. That thinking had to be developed by philosophers, writers, politicians and other thinkers. In that time it was regarded as normal for any conqueror to subjugate the conquered.
Just as today people find it normal to put pigs in small boxes, cut down forests for growing soy, feed the pigs with this soy, then kill the pigs after a worthless life, and eat this.
@@wp12mv It's still going. The wealth of the rich is still based on exploiting poor and unschooled human beings around the globe. And not just the ones in poor and developping countries either. Just take a look at the environment the poor are living in your own country and how much of a chance they really have to turn their situation around.
This may be the best/most interesting video you've made. Fascinating!
I’ve been slogging my way through the book Merchant Kings, which goes into detail about the progression of events of the spice trade. Absolutely mind blowing information
Thanks. I really like these videos. I especially like that you delve into the background or history of a topic so that it can be better understood.
it was only a side comment, but i think it would be fascinating to see a video on why tulips were so valuable. i think tulip mania is getting to be fairly common knowledge, but what's more fascinating to me than the market crash, is how the biology of tulips played a role in their value
If you're wondering about how it happened, just look at Prime drinks at the moment.
Love your historical vids Joe! You're the best !
Joe thank you for all the Great videos you’ve given us!! Please you have to do the Forgotten Atrocities series!!
It’s maddening to me how so much of the world has totally forgotten or never even knew about the terrible pasts of the world which like the saying goes if we don’t learn from our pasts we’re doomed to repeat.
Have a look at Simon Whistler's "Into the Shadows".
Fascinating video. Would love to see the new series idea as well
100% support the idea of Forgotten Atrocities. If we forget history, we are doomed to repeat it
Have a look at Simon Whistler's "Into the Shadows".
I think this may quietly be one of your best videos. Loved it! And Forgotten Atrocities would be awesome!
This is the first video of yours I've ever seen and the nerdy spice joke at the beginning is right up my alley.
Great vid as always.
Dutch history lessons in school have entire chapters devoted to the VOC, but as far as I can remember they never really went into the gruesome details. Really a shame in my opinion
Same, it mostly glorified it, talking about how rich and influential the VOC was
maar het is wel ongeveer de enige reden dat nederland nu zo rijk is, dus ik ben wel trots op de nederlandse geschiedenis
@@duckboi8794 gaat altijd 2 kanten op, we mogen best trots zijn op de VOC en het tegelijkertijd niet eens zijn met een aantal dingen die ze hebben gedaan
Depends on the school in the Netherlands. I am 50 years old now. And in my classes on history and about the VoC, all gruesome details where certainly mentioned. Maybe you had a lesser version of what happened. But overall this harsch details, where certainly mentioned in some schools. I can be a living example of that. So I can imagine what you say, but hereby, I can verify, that not every Dutch school, shoved the gruesome details under the carpet. It depends on the school. In my class, we had also people from many cultures. So maybe that was a reason to be honest about all details. It might have been a reason. I don't know, but what I do know is that most details known also today, I was certainly thought about. Have a great day!
@@Incorruptus1 thanks for your comment, good to hear not every school ignores it. I grew up in a small town in the east so most my classmates were white, maybe that had influence like you say. Have a great day, good luck with the cold today😉
As someone who lives in NL, I can tell you that many of the families of the "heroes" that you mention from the VOC are super rich today due to wealth being in their families for over 400 years
Yeap, sadly enough
as someone who lives in Indonesia, that's quite shocking
Can you name those families?
@@josephk4932 seconded.
@@josephk4932 Third
Bloody brilliant vid. Again. You rock.
I would LOVE if it you made the Forgotten Atrocities channel! Sounds very interesting. Thanks Joe.
Tea was also big.
I once read a book about 19th century British naval strategies, and one thing in it was really telling. When convoys left India, loaded with tea and spice, the whole navy went to defend them. Even ship that were in the middle of a battle.
One of the very, very few times I've known just about everything in a video you've shared... Year 9 history teacher to thank!
Same here, as i am Dutch and got taught this in the 90s in elementary school, but still cool to see it pop up here.
An excellent presentation and an intriguing manner of narration. Bloody well done.
Thanks for this presentation of such a hugely important era of history. Without this type of background I can't imagine how anyone could understand the present day.
Another entertaining and informative upload, Joe !
Great job, as usual....
Excellent content as always, sir! Love the two They Might Be Giants references with your own addition. I was originally thinking "history of food." The History Channel had some good stories around Coney Island and the hot dog and such, but Forgotten Atrocities is a good room read these days.
I'm dutch so this video is highly contrasting for me. It's really weird to think about what we achieved as such a small country, but also how much hurt we caused in the process
this was a great episode joe
16:03 Scott skipped through a very important historical milestone here that bears some mentioning.
Taiwan, AKA Ilha Formosa, as known to the 15th century Portuguese sailors, was the VOC's base of operations for a good 70 years before they were driven out by the Chinese/Japanese hybrid pirate General Koxinga around 1660s and claimed the island for Ming Dynasty China. If it weren't for this, the VOC wouldn't have relocated their base to Indonesia, and Taiwan would've stayed as a Dutch colony until after WWII's end and Ming & Qing Dynasty China wouldn't have their claim of the island as part of their territory, nor would Republic of China government had a place to retreat to after their defeat by the Communists in 1949. Interesting what-ifs of alternate history. 😀
The VOC built a Military Fort on southwestern part of Taiwan (Fort Zeelandia) and employed local Formosan aboriginal laborers as well as Southern Chinese migrants from the Fujian province to work on the fields, growing sugar canes and spices.
These Chinese migrants stayed on the island after the Dutch left and married local aboriginal women. Their descendants now makes up 80% of modern Taiwan's population of hybrid Han/Aboriginal ethnicity.
The 10% of Taiwan's current population came over to the island as war refugees from the Chinese mainland after their defeat by the Communists in 1949.
Qing Dynasty China didn't lay claim to Taiwan as part of its territory for another 70 years or so after the VOC left.
In addition, there are the Spanish and the Portuguese, who also built their forts on Taiwan around the same time frame in the Northwestern coastal areas. The remnants of these forts, along with Fort Zeelandia, still exists today; still mostly intact. As a history buff wishing to travel to East Asia, a stopover in Taiwan is more than worth your time to check them out.
As you can see, even then, Taiwan was geopolitically / strategically important in the 17th century as is now. The Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, Japanese, and Chinese once "owned" Taiwan or at least a portion of it at one point or another.
More on Taiwan's historical ties with the VOC can be found on wiki.
P.S. About 5 years ago, I was on a tour to visit one of the famous local indigenous tribes. To my amazement, some of them have red hair and green eyes, though their skin tones are not quite as light as Europeans. Then it occurred to me that some of the VOC sailors and soldiers never left Taiwan, but instead retreated to the mountains where they intermingled with the locals 💜xo💋💕xo😹
Interesting stuff, thanks
@@Games_and_Music you're quite welcome!
I've been to Fort Zeelandia. It's a nice place🙂
@@FrankDijkstra were you in Taiwan strictly to visit the Fort, or was it for other reasons 🤔? I'm asking Out of Curiosity.. 😁
@@willywonka4340 I've been to Taiwan 3 times. First to Taichung, then to Hsinchu, and lastly to Tainan. That was for work. I work for a big tech company in the south of the Netherlands.
You should do another of these videos around the fruit markets of the 19th and 20th centuries following the “United Fruit Company”! I love how you did this. Growing up, I lived with my aunt for a while (and we are Cuban). She used to grow virtually everything we ate but once a week we would walk across the bridge over the river to City Market and she would buy a live chicken, some other stuff we couldn’t grow (fruits, sugarcane, etc), and then she would break the chickens neck in the kitchen, pluck the feathers and spend all day cooking, frying, preserving and baking every single part of the chicken.
Hell, the Kingdom of Hawaii was overthrown for pineapples and missionaries
@@editorrbr2107 that would be a whole chapter in itself - that and the South Pacific. Hawaii is interesting/unique because they actually received a real apology from the government of the US - a hundred years late and with no reparations mind you - so all in all they didn’t fare much better than the people of Latin America. It’s more interesting to me because Hawaii had formal recognition and relationships with other nations spanning back a very long time, and if I’m not mistaken Grover Cleveland actually tried to reinstate their Queen and their independence but their queen refused to accept conditions regarding the repatriation of the coup plotters and then SHTF and Cleveland couldn’t continue the talks for whatever reason (I don’t remember why, I just know something came up and derailed the whole negotiations after that).
Wicked cool story/episode; well done
Good stuff my dude
Like always great video. Being a duch speeking person (I'm from Blgium), I did know the VOC, and that they owned the spice industrie, but that they where that brutal was not known by me. Also a nice fact; if something is very expensive we say in dutch it is "peperduur" translated it says as expensive as pepper. hanks for the video and greetings from Belgium.
This was very interesting, I had no idea the VOC was bigger than the EIC, and how much this affected modern capitalism.
I had to look it up but turns out the VOC value adjusted for inflation was worth about 8 Trillon.
Yeah I saw this title and immediately thought either the British or Dutch East India company and then saw the symbol.
It is the same thing. V.O.C. Is the Dutch abbrevition Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie
It's the same thing bruh
I really want to see a "history of capitalism" video featuring company ships engaged in battle Swiss-cheeseing each other with cannons.
Great video. "Nathaniel's Nutmeg" is a great read if you're interested in more Dutch atrocity info and how the English bought Manhattan by giving the VOC control over the Banda islands.
Great video.loved it!
What an amazing video. And yes, please pursue that "Forgotten Atrocities" project-There have been too many of those in history, and they deserve to be remembered.
The name "Forgotten Atrocities" is a bit illogical. Atrocities on a national scale are usually only forgotten by the perpetrators and their descendants. The victims of it never forget. But it's something we descendants of European slavers and colonizers need to and must be reminded of it. So Joe's series of that name is a great idea.
Wow! That was Joe's spiciest episode yet! He got a bit salty but managed to make up for it by peppering in some nice food clips.
I'd take everything he says with a grain of salt, though.
Puns, ugh. You deserve a thumbs-down because they were so awful. But you get a thumbs-up because they were so awesome.
Excellent Joe, love the idea of forgotten atrocities.
Have a look at Simon Whistler's "Into the Shadows".
A perfect video again. i love your stuff.
One factor to consider about the popularity of spices as trade goods you didn't mention: They are extremely easy to transport. Back when voyages took month and ship space was very limited spices were the perfect commodity to trade in. They don't spoil and take up very little space compared to their value in Europe. Other sought after luxury goods were much more difficult to transport around the world. Living exotic animals/plants, chinese porcelain and the like.
Porcelain was used as ballast. Tea and spices are bulky, but they don't weigh much, so fill up the hold with porcelain first. If it breaks, doesn't matter, is only to weigh the ship down so it doesn't fall over.
That’s cool, thanks for that! Kind of like how diamonds and gold are great trading goods because you get so much value for little weight.
Fun fact, actually Cape of Good Hope was called Cape of Torments before. They only started calling it Cape of Good Hope after Bartolomeu's expedition successfully passed the cape
Bartolomeu Dias, as he was the first captain there, named it Torments.
That was because his ships faced terrible storms getting there and passing it.
When the João II got the word that a ship had cornered Africa and where now able to travel north along its coasts that meant there was hope of reaching India
The King decided the cape should be named Good Hope as it is to this day.
And the Dutch founded Capetown to restock the supplies on board their ships.
This reminds me of my La history course where before we even talked about French explorations the professor covered pepper and the impact the spice trade had in motivating the world powers at the time.
Wow. Wow wow wow!
I mean i knew a lot about the voc, and still this video was incredibly interesting, loved it joe! Keep it going...!
This video, with the rich pinpoints of history, images, graphs, was easy to submerse myself. It's the kind of history that feels vital in a variety of ways.
Great episode Joe, love it. Its the butterfly effect from the past. A XVth century king in middle east took a liking for anise and bang! 300 years later, there's a new country called "Anistan". Also good job exposing both the benefits and the atrocities that come along with it. Some people just tend to show just one side, depending on their narrative.
I really appreciate your vast knowledge of true history without sugar coating everything
When I saw the title, I wondered how long it would be until a reference to "Dune" would be made. Did not have to wait long! Great job with the (sugar n) spice!
BTW, two other early commodities which were expensive and/or desired are covered by Mark Kurlansky in his books, "Cod" and "Salt."