WW2 Historian James Holland Breaks Down World War 2 Movies
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- Опубликовано: 3 ноя 2021
- Historian James Holland breaks down some scenes from movies that depict the Second World War, including 'Saving Private Ryan', 'The Imitation Game', 'Jojo Rabbit', 'Downfall' and 'Dunkirk'. His book, Brother in Arms, is available to buy now: amzn.to/3nULtqp
The Sherwood Rangers were one of the great tank regiments. They had learned their trade the hard way, in the burning deserts of North Africa. From D-Day onwards, they were in the thick of the action til the war's end. They and their Sherman tanks covered thousands of miles and endured some of the fiercest fighting in Western Europe. Their engagements stretch from the Normandy beaches to the bridges at Eindhoven. They were the first British unit into Germany, grinding across the Siegfried Line and on into the Nazi heartland.
Through compelling eye-witness testimony and James Holland's expert analysis, Brothers In Arms brings to vivid life the final bloody scramble across Europe and gives the most powerful account to date of what it was really like to fight in the dying days of World War Two.
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I love how he addresses how "Dunkirk" would actually be _more_ realistic with more CGI
That’s pretty typical with CGI since it can transform the areas more. But poorly done it can of course feel off.
that movie made me angry, that's how bad and inaccurate it was, actual anger
And ironically more accurate if they didn't film it at a modern Dunkirk
In my opinion, best movies are ones which are dominantly made with practical effects, but are not afraid of using cgi to fill the gaps. It's all about balance, overuse of practical effects tends to stretch the budget a lot, while overuse of cgi makes the movie looking cartoonish and silly. So for me, practical effects + cgi to polish it up and really bring historical period that's being represented to the screen.
I totally agree with him, the scenes are too empty and the film was a huge letdown, I almost left the cinema.
that is so crazy that the fighter planes only had *14.7 seconds* of ammunition. every depiction of WW2 dogfights and aerial combat shows these long, drawn out battles with all sorts of maneuvers and lots of bullets flying everywhere. so mind-blowing to hear that wasn't the case.
Thats why pilots who shot down 5 enemy planes were titled "ace". Not an easy task at all.
I read an account from a WW1 pilot who said something like "if there's an enemy behind you and bullets all around you then you're probably quite safe. if there's an enemy behind you and he hasn't fired yet you're in a lot of trouble"
@@nannerthepuss And on top of everything, they were pulling G's while doing all of that. Those guys were stone cold badasses.
@@nannerthepuss that’s why you’re taught (and only hold the trigger down) for the amount of time it takes to say “mother fucker”
@@petrzeman996 Some became aces in a day, that must take some skill.
I love that this guy not only judges the films based on literal historical accuracy, but also on the spirit of what the films were conveying. When he talks about Jojo Rabbit, he clearly understands that the movie is taking massive creative liberties in order to add humor and spectacle, and he doesn't demerit it for that because the tone and the chaos *was* accurate. Pure class.
Jojo Rabbit is a disgusting, evil film.
@@bygmesterfinnegan6938 How so? I'm intrigued.
@@bygmesterfinnegan6938 I guess it is if you're a nazi
@@bygmesterfinnegan6938 how do please explain what you mean
@@thereaperlord3738 Explain Why? Are they not entitled to their own opinion!
Bruno Ganz should have been nominated for an Oscar for his performance in "Downfall", at the least. It's an all-time performance.
If it helps your pain. Bruno Ganz was the wearer of the "Iffland-Ring". A ring with the portrait of the prussian playwriter August Wilhelm Iffland. Since 1814 the bearer of this ring is considered the "most significant and most worthy actor of the German-speaking theatre". Like Iffland himself who created the ring. The current bearer decides who is worthy to be gifted this ring in their last will. Since then It had pasted on from one great actor to another until 1996 Bruno Ganz had the honor until his death in 2019 to be the ring bearer.
In my personal opinion. A far greater honor than an Oscar. As there is only one living person at a time that can bear the title of "most significant Actor of german-speaking theatre"
When you see that performances as this of Bruno Ganz are ignored by the academy, you realize how the Oscar are actually a joke about real acting artist.
@@Teufer2 that is the most honorable thing for an actor. The Oscars been given by a Jury that most likely never got an Oscar themself... so how are they allowed to Decide? While the Ring only given by one great actor to another great actor says everything
All you people realize that Downfall is an International Feature Film, right? And that non-English language movies can't be nominated outside of that category for an Oscar? The official name is The ACADEMY Awards. And the Academy is American. That's why the Brits have their own, as do many other countries.
@@jsullivan2112 Actually, international (including non-English language) films have been nominated for Academy Awards in the major categories (Best Actor, Actress, Director, Film) and Supporting acting categories also, and have won them a few times. The most recent that comes to mind was “Parasite” winning Best Picture”, “Best Director”, and some other categories as well.
Ever since I saw Bruno Ganz playing as Hitler, I started seeing others who played as Hitler in a silly way. Like, no disrespect to those actors, they're amazing people, but the way Bruno played Hitler is so terrifyingly accurate. From the way he's speaking, his shaking hands, even the eye movement and body language. R.I.P Bruno Ganz.
Have you seen Munich, the edge of war? I think the actor who played Hitler did almost as good of a job as Bruno Ganz
@@timtamt1tan792 I have not seen it. Thanks for the info
@@timtamt1tan792 really? I couldn’t take his Impression seriously to be honest. But as a german I might be a little picky on the way he performs Maybe. Felt like he was trying to copy Bruno Ganz, But failed. But then again he WAS PLAYING next to Bruno Ganz ( thats the Same actor who played goebbels in downfall) so he had a lot of Inspiration i am sure haha. But really Not coming close to Bruno Ganz Performance :P
He understood the assignment, literally. Best acting of Hitler ever
It's even more impressive to me because Ganz did not want the role. The idea of playing Hitler horrified him. But when he committed, he committed 110%. No attempts to make a joke of it or to hide behind theatrics. One of the greatest acting jobs in cinema, hands down.
I love how in Downfall, during the rant, you can actually see the generals almost trembling in fear. They were really channeling their characters. If Hitler were yelling at me I’d be shitting my pants.
You find out how many cowards there really are in the military. The brave ones either get killed in action or shot for treason. Those cowards were probably the one who chanted Hilter's name the loudest. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Americans have their patriotic cowards too. John Wayne. Donald Trump. Ted Nugent. They were all draft dodgers who hugged the flag.
Its like gordon ramsey screaming at you🤣🤣
Because Hitler would sack his generals. You would be terrified he's gonna punch you in the nuts 🥊🥜
Agree😂😂😂
I think they used some directing tricks like not rehearsing the scene together. So they really WERE suprised at the way Ganz let loose and almost frothed at the mouth...
What I like about this is that Mr Holland is obviously a film fan. He clearly is able to appreciate movie making and storytelling even when not strictly accurate.
I think part of his job is historian advisor for ww2 movies/series - so yes, he also definitely a cinemaholic
He’s an outstanding historian and person.
Uh... kinda he lost that for me when he called The Imitation Game "boring"... wtf did he want? Explosions?
That was exactly the problem I had with “Dunkirk”, and no one I talked to seemed to understand. The real event had hundreds of thousands of guys waiting to be evacuated. The movie had hardly anyone. My memory of the film was of a few guys creeping around, and a few people in boats and planes. If you can’t assemble an actual cast of thousands when needed, then you’d better use CGI to make up for it. I just did not understand Nolan’s directorial decisions in this one.
I agree. Reading a lot about Dunkirk, I imagined it to be a pure chaos and the movie presented it like a ghost town lol
And then if you talk common sense problems about the movie, they call you an idiot and say that you don't honor WW3 history.
And then before you can wonder why they're acting like this, they start saying Chris Nolan is the greatest director that ever lived,
and that if you don't like his movies, then it's because you're trying to be contrarian because you have nothing actually smart to say.
Then they yell at you with anger that if you think you know World War Eleven better than Christopher Nolan, who actually won the war, then you should burn in hell and die.
And then when you offer to watch it with them so you can give it another shot, they realize they didn't mean a single word that they said, don't want to sit through a boring as hell movie, and we're just upset that you weren't jumping on the worshipping-Nolan bandwagon, and then shrink as small as a pencil as they bail out on your offer.
Also, the lack of gore. Dudes getting hit by mortars just flying up in the air in one piece takes away from how fucked up war is. It should have been blood caking the sand and the beaches should have been overcrowded and chaotic, and the city should have been mostly wrecked form the shelling. Trash movie.
I always had this problem with Nolan even when he made Batman trilogy...during the scenes when Batman is fighting the villains in Gotham, the city looks almost empty, as if no citizens live there at all, I always thought that Nolan had a particular reason for doing this, but now I found out that he never uses CGI
the best dunkirk scene i've watched in from atonement, it shows the chaos
I'm happy to hear that "Downfall" was so spot-on. Because it's one of my favorite war movies (that ironically, has almost no depictions of battle in it, only people talking about battle, which is normally very boring in a war film). I honestly can't stop watching it though, because, psychologically, it hits on so many of the "human" elements of the actual collapse of a dictatorship, under gunfire. And the acting, in most scenes, is bloody brilliant!
Same as for Ünsere Mutter Ünsere Vatter. Germans make it perfectly.
Bruno Ganz was such a brilliant actor.
@@Roland.Deschain ja genau :) Hallo aus Deutschland
@@michaelhawkins7389 Hallo freund :)
I'm looking for more war movies revolving around the commanders. Like Gettysburg for example, most of the movie was just the generals talking about how they're gonna win the war. I don't care about combat, I've seen that crap a thousand times
If you're unaware, James Holland has a brilliant podcast alongside Al Murray called "We have ways of making you talk". All WW2 Based.
must listen to that
OMG ! I've just realized his Tom Holland's, The Rest is History podcast brother. He has mentioned "We have ways of making you talk" and James was a quest of he's brothers podcast about 1940 and Dunkirk :D
Thanks man!
Cheers for the recommendation !
didn't he say he was an author. i know he said that he specializes in ww2 but I thought you have to be a historian to really judge historic inaccuracies.
0:10 Introduction
0:23 Saving Private Ryan
3:03 Downfall/Der Untergang
5:39 The Imitation Game
8:06 Dunkirk
11:59 Conclusion
i thought Conclusion is another movie...lol
I am SO glad you included "Jo Jo Rabbit." I was actually going to request that you do! I found myself surprisingly moved by this picture, which incredibly managed to capture both the realism and the humor of the war in equal measure, and with such stellar acting performances. The guy who played Hitler was fall down hilarious, and I found the role of the mother played by Scarlett Johansson particularly moving.
Tika watiti or however u spell his name plays hitler
He directed it too!
@@johnburke6569
WOW.
"Downfall" is based on the book "Inside Hitler's Bunker: The Last Days of the Third Reich" by the German historian Joachim Feist and the memoirs of Hitler's private secretary Traudl Junge "Until the Final Hour: Hitler's Last Secretary". Actor Bruno Ganz (Hitler) gives his version a great balance of madness and some kind of normality without showing Hitler as a ridicolous comedy character.
Until the Final Hour is one of the most interesting memoirs I've ever read. She wrote it while the memories were still somewhat fresh and didn't publish it until much later in life. The interviews with her and Melissa Muller are also very interesting. She had a front row seat to some of the most consequential events in modern history.
You have to admit that it also gave us one of the best video memes ever by changing the subtitles! The version about the infamous Kitchen Nightmares episode of Amy's Bakery was pure comedy gold!
You are quite right about the actor's performance, it was impressive, such a presence on the screen.
I've read all the Hitler biographies (had to check, huge Ian Kershaw double-one is Norton, not Penguin!), but "Downfall" is as accurate as you get, like this man says. It was his same grotesque Beer Hall performance acting, at the end. William Shirer already knows he's "a ridiculous comedy character" on some level in his 1940 "Berlin Diary," but he was also a real guy, which "Downfall" absolutely captures.
I’m upset they left out the part where Hitler and his Mrs. we’re swapped out with body doubles while he shaved and started his departure to South America :(
They could have at least added an alternative ending with the dvd release
stark comparison to one of the best actors of all time, anthony hopkins.
Not only does he clearly know his history, but seems to know a lot about movies as well, even pointing out specific filming techniques and restraints. I agree with all his movie ratings as well.
I wouldn't agree because there are veterans alive who've differed facts to his opinions. The differences end up being night and day. I'm going to believe a first hand account, and I've grown up around WW2 veterans, over his 'authorship'.
@@maximoonraker1930 out of interest, could you give some examples?
@@maximoonraker1930 I mean, where exactly in this video did he provide facts that differed from veterans? He’s not saying there ISN’T accuracy in these films, just pointing out the inaccuracies.
@@maximoonraker1930 never came back to add anything useful to the conversation just a baseless comment, rip
@maximoonraker1930 sucks being wrong 5months later
I love the way Holland talks about JoJo Rabbit. I've always taken the movie as being how JoJo experienced things. For example, I don't think that Captain K was wearing his fantastical uniform, but that is how JoJo perceived him. If that is the case, then it makes total sense that the specifics would be unrealistic, but the feeling of collapse would be accurate.
James Hollands’ analyses are an absolute pleasure to hear because he knows just how to assess a movie in its respective form, evaluating historical accuracy and yet also cinematographic importance. A very smart approach to films, very nuanced, very intelligent.
I’m glad he appreciated JoJo Rabbit. Yes, it was a darkly humorous take on a much more serious book. But bear in mind it was done to depict the end of the Third Reich through the eyes of a child. The insanity of everything going on around him would have appeared quite fantastical.
Taika Waititi absolutely captured the essence of the book. I will throw hands if anyone begs to differ
One of the best movies I've ever seen. Perfectly walked the line
@@deanjustdean7818 Waititi is one of the best filmmakers out there. Pan's Labyrinth is also good, just watched it this week
@@deanjustdean7818 How many Waititi movies have you watched? I'm really interested as to what specifically irks you in his movies, since I love all of it. Is it the quirky style of comedy?
@@deanjustdean7818 Breaker-upperers is not a Waititi film since he was only a producer, and I have no idea what DisneyVel is.
"Der Untergang" received a flood of hate when it aired. One of the main "critique points" on it was that it humanized Adolf Hitler.
Michelle Reich-Ranicki (himself a polish jew that actually experienced Nazi attrocities) commented on this: "Are you supposed to show Hitler as an elephant or a camel?"
We need to know what evil dictators like him really look like in order recognize them in the future. If they're always depicted as clowns or stereotypical caricatures, then that's what we'll look for (while completely missing the real ones).
I don’t even know what that means 😂 is the camel a bad thing?
The scariest thing about the orchestrators of the greatest atrocities in human history is that they are humans like us. Not some abstract monster, but a person who willfully partook in evil acts.
@@jjfajen The scarier thing is the realization that it wasn't just a single monstrous villain that was responsible for it all. Hitler didn't personally persecute and execute all those people, he simply couldn't have. Under him was an entire massive nation of people "just following orders".
And the truly scariest realization: there's no reason to think that all of those people were fundamentally different than you or I. Meaning, there's no reason to think they couldn't have _been_ you and I, under the right circumstances.
What Elgsdyr said above is partly true, it is important not to mischaracterize these people, but I think it misses the fact that an evil dictator like Hitler can only succeed by exploiting evil that exists. True evil comes not from any single person, but from inside us, and that's where we need to look for it; not in other people.
@@Elgsdyr absolutely, some are easy to spot once u know what to look for, like an orange moron fighting orban for a sucky at putins dick. or a certain turkish dude taking his country more extremist. any time a head of state wins several elections, take a close look. it doesnt insta scream dictator.. Merkel got many terms cause the 14 other parties werent getting their shit together as well as her status quo went..
there are many easy-to-recognize signs of fascism rising. we should all make sure we can identify and counter those. Fascism tends to get voted in, and then it goes totalitarian...
I had the same problem with Dunkirk. The whole place looked empty. In most scenes we see _one_ boat, a handfull of troops and almost empty skies. It's ridiculous...
Dunkirk, is a great movie, for a novice, but totally inaccurate!
yeah history buffs mentioned that when doing dunkirk
The C. Nolan 'Dunkirk' is a bit of an insult to those soldiers and to history.
Oh thank you for calling out The Imitation Game. I am a big fan of the story around Bletcheley Park and the Enigma.
As a German living in the UK I always found it way under-celebrated and was so happy when the movie was announced.
When I watched it, I had very similar feelings to James Holland's comments here.
There’s a great book called x y and z the real story of how enigma was broken by Demort Turing (Alan Turing’s nephew) that really focuses on the polish codebreakers story.
It's sad that most of the documentaries circling around Bletchley Park (not just the Enigma Machine) put way too much weight on Alan Turing and essentially ignore the other unsung hero of the whole affair, which was Tommy Flowers. Flowers created the Colossus, the world's first programmable computer, which a fully working replica resides at The National Museum of Computing at Bletchley Park. Flowers knew about this project, but sadly died 9 years before its completion in 2008
Yeah exactly. Tommy flowers, Joseph rochefort, John tiltman, Bill Tutte… all of them are heroes.
Uh... it's a MOVIE. Movies tend to have title characters, and it works much better for a film when there's one central character. If he wants to call out the historical inaccuracies, fine, but having it center around Alan made for a much tighter narrative. The piece at the end where he's suffering from the drugs he's being forced to take to "cure" his homosexuality was heartbreaking. IDK where he gets off calling it "boring"... did he want a bunch of explosions?
@@nahor88it is boring exactly because it's all centered around the figure of Turing. It's not a war movie, it's a drama. Historians like him or even history nerds like me don't care about Turing's "beard", it's a much less influential plot point compared to what other important members of the team did. Although maybe if what you care about is the history of gay people you won't find it boring.
I love how he's so engaged/excited, that he starts looking at/ talking to the camera crew instead of staring at the camera. True history nerd :)
@@alyonazem3480 well good thing he's English then eh
@@davidshepherd1634 indeed lol
@@alyonazem3480 There doesn't need to be any anti-soviet propaganda. The oppressive bullshit they get up to speaks for itself.
@@alyonazem3480 American LMAOOOO did u skip school?
@@davidshepherd1634 Ouch got him
I worked on Saving Private Ryan during the filming of that landing scene. Spielberg (and everyone else on set) knew the obstacles were the the wrong way around at the time of filming. By the time it was noticed it was too late to have them turned around because the schedule was too tight. He made the decision to go ahead and film it as is. Another small inaccuracy is when Tom Sizemore is scooping earth into a tin can labelled “France” the writing is in permanent marker which apparently hadn’t been invented by 1944. It’s still one of my all time favourite movies. At the end of the day these are Hollywood movies, not documentaries and you’ve got the give the makers credit for the amount of realism that they do have (with the exception of the imitation game and U-571!)
Spot on matey!
Do you recall if there were any bits filmed that ended up being deleted from the final cut? There's a production still showing a DD tank on the beach (and you can glimpse it for a split second in the movie), so I would think they filmed a bit more of it.
@thecarninator you are correct. They had a large landing craft carrying 2 DD Sherman’s which were filmed disembarking but didn’t make the final cut. Good spot! Incidentally they weren’t actual DDs but regular Shermans mocked up to look like them
True story, I was the sandbags
Did that unit landed in Italy, Im sure they landed in Africa.
James Holland is my new favourite WW2 historian. He is just brilliant and his works are so delightful to read and well-written.
Add this podcast to your list - WE HAVE WAYS OF MAKING YOU TALK - you can thank me later! Al Murray and James are simply amazing together.
‘Come and See’ also deserves an honourable mention of a realistic depiction of the eastern front from the perspective of civilians.
Eastern Front was most brutal fight humans ever saw..
@@Lis2875 It's difficult to say which was the most brutal. Because South East Asian theatre had tropical weather, environments, insects, diseases etc. Must've been utter hell fighting anywhere. But doing so in the sweatbox of tropical rainforests seems like another level. Up there with fighting in the snow.
This guy is awesome. He’s so good at separating the flex of his historical knowledge from his appreciation of the filmmaker’s intent. It’s lovely that he can comment specifically about what is or isn’t accurate, while separately commenting on what feels representative/unfaithful, and also being able to give his opinion on whether he liked the movie or not. He totally nailed the brief. Love it. Bring him back!
The great thing about Downfall, and why 'that' scene has become so iconic, is because you could probably show it to alot of non-german speakers without subtitiles or dubbing and most of them would be gripped.
A lot*
That's my case, I knew nothing of german, and the scene Iv'e watched had no subtitles, but I felt like I was in that room, tense just like the generals.
I'm gripped by every meme using fake subtitles in that scene.
I'm really glad he pointed out the problems with not using modern CG in historical depictions. I was very confused as someone who knew quite a bit about WW2 and Dunkirk when I saw dogfights of 1-2 planes on each side. Back then air dominance was decided by who could keep the most planes in the air for the longest and as he said, when operating from British Command, they would always deploy in squadrons of 12 or attack groups of 18-24 for decisive actions. So honestly a CG budget could have really helped make this picture a lot more historically immersive and it is why I prefer the depiction of war captured in 1917 even though it is the less cool of the two wars lol.
We didn't need any more, i would rather see real practical planes over CGI. Most flying films with CGI get flying wrong, it just looks off and it's very off putting when you're watching it. CGI artists simply can't be expected to know the physics of planes, i might be in the minority because i like aircraft and know what can and can't be done. Red Tails is a great example of it looking bad
@@mrcaboosevg6089 Hmm, I definitely see your point there, full CGI planes can be tough. I love a good CGI spaceship (Interstellar, GOTG, etc.) but matching the movement of planes in the earth's environment specifically seems to be a really tough challenge, even now. However, I'd say there's a lot of ways to use CGI augmentation to make similarly sized, more modern planes look older and hence more accurate. I mean look at what they did with Top Gun Maverick, they got plenty of REAL planes in the air for that production, what's to say you couldn't use a similarly scaled modern aircraft for historical war films and then augment those flying shots with CGI in post to make the planes look authentic?
@@zacharynewkirk7309 Top Gun used a lot of real planes though. There's simply not enough WW2 planes left to make anything actually convincing of what WW2 was like, there's certainly not enough to where a production company could actually get them together on location.
The best idea i can think of is to use real pilots in a simulator doing the actual combat and use the data from that to render the whole thing realistic after the fact. Talking WW2 though where you gonna find 300 pilots that can convincingly fly WW2 aircraft even in a simulator... I don't think there's a good solution, not until technology gets better anyway. We'll have our Terminator 2 moment where plane CGI just gets good at some point
He is so enthusiastic about everything he’s talking about even if the content isn’t accurate love this guy
One of my favorite scenes from Downfall is when Eva Braun cajoles a bunch of people in the bunker to go upstairs to have a little dance party. For a few minutes they are listening to a record and enjoying themselves, and then Soviet artillery fire hits the building and they all stagger back down to the safety of the bunker. They thought they could deny reality and it bit them in the ass.
Just like the January 6 rioters
@@kbanghart
yeah you wish lol
@@ButHerMama wishing not needed, it's reality.
That's just in films. In reality, you get used to explosions in about second month of your city being bombed, and when Mark Hamill announces air raid (he's voicing the alarm app) we barely get distracted from what we are doing. And I am talking about a town with basically no shelters, let alone super safe things like bunkers. Early on rule of 2 walls and corridor. Now? Just keep calm and carry on. Of course it's worse on frontlines, and it's closer to when London was bombed for me, but the reality is your anger at russians supersedes all other feelings. You want moscow to be razed at any cost. The hate keeps you going on.
I'm glad he can appreciate movies even with their inaccuracies. As a history major myself, I used to always be really bothered by historical inaccuracies in film. And then one day I realized that if I couldn't enjoy a movie because of the historical inaccuracies it has, then I just won't be able to enjoy movies. So I decided to change my perspective. Now, I don't dislike movies for their inaccuracies or anachronisms (except Braveheart, fuck that shit.). I just assume that they'll get things wrong and instead I am just impressed when I find the things that they got right. And now I can enjoy historical films again.
Braveheart...IKR
I'm a builder and used to find myself picking holes in sets like brick over brick bond etc soon realised how boring it was for others
@@thebigspliffdaddy5470 Lol my mother was a seamstress and a costume designer for a while and she does that with costumes. She'll point out things like "That fold in that back of that actress' dress shouldn't be there. That style of dress had a flat back in the 17th century." or whatever it is. She can also spot a zipper on any historical costume, even if it's some extra far in the background.
@@Liamnesque Yeah, it's like they didn't even try with that movie. They're wearing kilts in the 13th century, they depict Wallace as some dirty peasant, and the Battle of Sterling Bridge doesn't even have A FUCKING BRIDGE anywhere to be found. It's the only "historical" film that I just can't watch. I can even watch The Patriot, but not Braveheart. Most historical movies change things to make the story more concise, or to make a smoother narrative. They'll sometimes combine multiple people from the time into a single character to make it easier for the audience to understand the narrative without having extra names and faces to memorize. And set/prop/costume anachronisms are usually just the result of having either too many or too few consultants and not taking into account that historians usually specialize in a certain area and may not be knowledgeable in others; or they have to change something for ease of filming, like changing the length of a sword to better fit in a frame, or the classic removing a helmet while in combat so that the audience can identify the characters. And I'm fine with all of that. But there are so many issues in Braveheart that don't do any of those things. They're just changes made for no reason and provide no justification.
@@thecreaturezoid478 I feel you... History Buffs (RUclips channel) had a field day with that flick...have you seen it?
I wish Das Boot would make it more often on such lists... it's one of, if not the, greatest WWII movies... and is so overlooked.
Met Bruno Ganz in Zürich Haupt Bahnhof not long before he died. An absolute Gentleman.
I was a Machine Gunner in the Norwegian Army in 2008, we used a Light Machine Gun called MG3, which was an MG42 that was modified to fire the 7.62x51mm NATO round (The Germans in WW2 used 7.92mm cartridges for their rifles/crew-served MGs). Rate of fire was around 1200 rnds/minute, so it was ever so slightly slower in cyclic rate, but it practically made the same sound and felt the same as a WW2 MG42. He's TOTALLY correct about how it was portrayed in Saving Private Ryan. It was completely unrealistic and it wouldn't have happened in real life.
Well done!
The M60 of the US army was based off of the German MGs and the drilled us incessantly to shoot in 6-9 round bursts.
I was drilled on the MG 74 (Austrian Army) which is basically the 42 but with a different breech that lowered rof to 850rpm but we tried it with the original 1200 rpm and i can confirm that you'd need a sponge to mop up the barrel if you'd fired like in the movie :)
I disagree. The MG42 was issued with extra barrels an SOP was to change the barrel every 250 rounds. It was intended to be able to dump 250 round belts. Doctrine has changed on how LMGs and Universal MGs are used so as to not have to change barrels
@@barthslung Changing Barrels and carrying spare barrels was at least part of the drill in 1994 when I was trained as a machine gunner for the Version with the lower rpm rate . still firing the 42, as I said, like in the movie scene wouldnt be possible and I have that first hand from my granddad who was an Infantry sergeant in the german Army in ww2
I don't know why some action or war movies never get the gun and cannon sounds right. Was it to not frighten people from enlisting?
My friend’s grandfather was part of d-day at Normandy, and never ever openly spoke about it. After seeing Saving Private Ryan in the theater with the family, he finally spoke up and said, “that was it. That’s exactly it.”
My grandfather had to leave the theater. He said that it was the most realistic war movie he had ever seen, and he said he started "smelling things" from 50 years ago. Napalm, the smell of blood mixed with ocean, people sweating and puking with fear, cordite.
War is hell, man.
@@GoodAvatar-ut5pq I saw some D-Day vets on TV who were shown SPR. They said the squeaking of the German Tiger tanks in the movie still made them cringe. They hadn't thought of that noise in decades.
My friends father was a WW2 Pacific vet, Navy corpsman who supported island beach assaults at least twice. His wife took him to see the movie without realizing how brutal it was, and said he was dead quiet the whole time. He said it was the most accurate depiction he'd ever seen on film.
i think your friend's grandfather is speaking more from what it felt like rather than the detailed things that were wrong about the movie
That’s exactly what a bunch of D-Day survivor said it was exactly like that. It was the first time I was able to pick it on film but oh, I guess we’ll just read about it in a book this guy wrote who wasn’t there I’m sure he knows more.
James's knowledge of the subject matter and enthusiasm is awesome.
I love Downfall. Discovered it years ago but watch it frequently. Watching it in German (with the subtitles) makes it more realistic.
I've been to Omaha, Utah, and Gold Beach. When I went to Omaha, what stood out to me was that the bunkers were placed at a 45 degree angle, which created interlocking fields of fire that the Americans had to negotiate as they stormed the beach. Running almost a quarter mile in a killing zone like that is a sobering thing to think about.
Yes it is absolutely terrifying. And basically the Allies were still lucky, because the Germans started from a different location for the invasion and that's why not so many troops were stationed. With all the defense forces at this location, the Allies would probably still have won, but the death toll would have been many times higher.
When I went to Utah Beach ,I first felt the weigth of History .
Indeed, but also how damn far it from the water's edge to the top of the bluff. it's like 4 or 5 times that as depicted in saving private ryan
@@ex59neo53 yup. but also when i visited Aushcwitz and Hiroshima memorial museum.
@@andywilliams8540 yep. It was at least a quarter mile of open ground at low tide.
“Atonement” has a great five minute one take scene at Dunkirk beach that probably captures the chaos of what Dunkirk really looked like.
Nolan is adamant about using as little CGI as possible but where “Dunkirk” really succeeds is capturing the feeling of dread and terror these people felt at all times on that beach.
Good catch. I watched ATONEMENT during my flight to Europe. The beach scene and the tunnel flooding was quite haunting. Someday we'll see a movie about the invasion of Ukraine.
That "Atonement" scene is so well done. So much chaos and unsettling.
Generally a great movie, Atonement. Need to watch it again.
100% agree. That 'one'shot' in Atonement is quite possibly one of the greatest movie scenes of all time. Nolan missed a trick there........
@@leoperidot482 All the propagandists on all sides will have to die and be forgotten before we ever get any accurate movies about Ukraine.
i saw saving private Ryan for the first time a few days ago. i was on the verge of tears and i was kind of sick to my stomach. the emotions you feel the first 30 minutes or so are indescribable. truly a spectacular film
I ended up watching Der Untergang a few years ago, because of the memes, not going to lie, and I was in utter amazement with the movie. It's one of those "not-so-known" WWII movies which is an absolute masterpiece. Bruno Ganz does an amazing portrayal of hitler. Anyone who's interested in war movies, particularly WW2 movies has to see this one.
We need lots more of James. How he breaks things down I can watch him all day
@@alyonazem3480 are you going to ignore that America played a massive part?? Sicily, Pacific Theatre, D-Day, North Africa..
besides, what does key players even mean??? America, Britain and Japan also played massive parts when it came to the war. Why aren’t they listed?
@@alyonazem3480 he's english lmao
@@alyonazem3480 First of all, he's british. Secondly, I'm guessing you're either russian or german and this is some misguided sense of patriotism that's making you downgrade the part that everyone else played in the war.
James is on a lot of the nazi megastructures episodes, i would love to spend an afternoon with him
I may be preaching to the choir here, but if you haven't already definitely listen to his podcast, We Have Ways
Aaaah... Historical Accuracy.. So important!!!! If you are really interested, and care about History, there's nothing better than a Historically Correct movie! Totally agree with all the points, interesting video!
Hi
That’s historically accurate
How are you nick
Is this a bot comment?
@@ece5925 no it is history secrets click on his profile he real
Downfall is one of the best war movies ever made. The way it showcases the horrors of war is incredibly unique, it's as historically accurate as it can be, and the acting is just the best.
I feel like war movies should hire historians like James Holland (and others) in order to portray the reality of what happened. Love this video, would love to see more
They do have historical consultants but I think most of the time they take creative liberties based on budget and/or entertainment value
@@TheTrueSpottedStripe Kubrick don't take creative liberties. He listen his consultants. Thats why spielberg and nolan (lol) are worse then Kubrick. Nolan escpesially
@@TheTrueSpottedStripe Exactly, the people making the movie have all the resources they need in order to make it 100% accurate. Chances are they don't have the money or the movie would probably just be not that good if it was 100% accurate. Saving Private Ryan as he said is not 100% accurate but many would consider it an amazing film that depicts war extremely well. It is far better to get the major things correct along with the actual feel of the war than small details. As he mentioned, the obstacles on the beach in Saving Private Ryan are facing the wrong way, could they have done it correctly? Of course, but for the feel and general story it doesn't matter and 99% of people will never know it's wrong.
Most of history is quite boring, they have to make a story engaging to the viewer. Like Imitation Game, if that was 100% accurate there would be a lot of maths and not much else
Downfall was virtually flawless , and that particular scene is a master-class in direction and acting . 10/10 !
Agree, there is another master class scene in that movie when Frau Gobbles murders her children so they won't live past a failed state.
I really like James Holland, books are great and his positivity is really infectious. I did also jump when that rifle shot went off at the start of Dunkirk! Also The Cruel Sea is my favourite movie and a fantastic book!
Dunkirk (1958 )was a far better version shot in black and white starring Sir John Mills and a great supporting cast.
Even the beach scene in the film 'Atonement ' was probably more accurate than 'Dunkirk ' 2017.
@@chrisholland7367 Yes dude, totally agree. I am a massive John Mills fans and as always his performance is fantastic. I have not seen atonement though.
I heartily agree. The film The Cruel Sea is a masterpiece. The book has to be one of the most gruelling I have ever read (for all the right reasons). The episode with the tube of cream for burn relief has stuck in my mind ever since.
Good old James Holland! Never, ever fails to succeed in everything he does. If he were my son, I would be as proud as hell of him 🇬🇧
@@alyonazem3480 James Holland is from the UK, where is this American historian you're so upset about? Even if he was American it's pretty ignorant to write someone's knowledge off solely based on where they are from.
Downfall, best movie ever, you don't get a movie with characters who look like the original ones every day.
If they ever remade it, Hitler might become black!
Nothing better than listening to a real enthusiast talking about fictional works with respect, based on their knowledge and passion. I may have read too many complaints about the inaccuracies of these war movies with hate and contempt, it's so refreshing to watch this.
The Hitler rant in the bunker is by far the most historically accurate portrayal and the best acting
Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! did it for me lol
Trust me, Bruno Ganz has played better roles
@@MrDukeSilverr I'm sure, but he'll go down in history for probably the most accurate portrayal of Hitler.
Ever see the bunker rant in Alec Guiness' "Hitler, The Last Ten Days?" Sir Alec's rant isn't as good as Bruno Ganz's, it's not bad though, but what I like in "Last Ten Days" is that when Jodl tells Hitler the Steiner counter-attack won't take place he also spells out the reasons WHY in detail so Hitler (and we the audience) will understand.
Of course, it makes no difference to Hitler!
How to you know? Rochus Misch who was in the bunker and is also portrayed in the movie _(his actor even died before him),_ said it absolutely isn't! Hitlers ranting style of speech was during the climax of his public speeches. This the normal way to hold speeches, especially in beerhalls without microphones. They found some secretly recorded tapes, of a conversation of him with Finnish general Mannerheim, that showed his real speech pattern and mannerisms in private conversations.
This and the accounts of Misch and other close people to Hitler, outweight what historians think about it.
For all its faults, Enigma was a much better film about Bletchley, depicting it as a vast place with thousands working there, rather than 5 guys in a barn.
I quite liked Enigma, in fact I was invited to the premiere, but to portray a Pole as a traitor in the way it did was pretty ridiculous and very unjust.
@@ivorbiggun710 But it was Jaime Lannister, of course he's going to be the traitor ;)
@@lavrentivs9891 I thought it was agrippa from the hbo series rome who was the guy leaking info to the reds in the movie and TYWIN Lannister (Charles DAnce) was the officer in charge? I forget if he was involved as well in the info sharing but I haven't seen it in a while.
Five Idiots Squabbling In A Shed
I have the letters from my Grandfather to his brother in USA during the WWII. Grandpa was a Captain at sea during the war. Much of the content of the letters are blacked by the sensors. But I understand that he commanded a smaller ship that deliver fuel on the D days. The ship has a Norwegian name and he ended up in a Hospital in Liverpool. I remember he never talk about the six years he was a war sailor. But he was afraid of thunder, called it Dive Bombers. He never drink, just tea and coffee sitting up at night listen to British radio. He die early. But his letters are more cruel and frightening than any movie i think. Sorry for my Norwegian-English .
Nice shout-out at the end for 'The Cruel Sea' - excellent film, based on an excellent book. One of the best British films ever made.
I continue to be astounded that Bruno Ganz wasn't honoured on the awards circuit that year. Was it because he portrayed Hitler? Dozens upon dozens of actors have played historical monsters in films over the years. He absolutely should have been honoured on the circuit. RIP Bruno
No one is going to honor Hitler.
They will honor their fellow actors who are literal pedophiles and rapists in real life, and they all know about it, celebrate actors who portray such people, but not an actor who played Hitler.
@@fakecubed Really? You're going to call out actors who are pedophiles and rapists? How about all those catholic priests who are pedophiles and rapists while people like YOU either turned a blind eye or defended those sickos.
I really like Dunkirk and I enjoyed it but I agree the lack of scale and scope was it's biggest problem, while Pratical effects will always be better than CGI, CGI could have been used to enhance the scenes, ie. add more ships and men in the background, add more smoke, all of that would have made a huge improvement.
true but the way theirs limited clutter ie no blood no cgi and a focus on music, negative space with the sky and sea and dramatic dogfights is all in the essence of taste and creating a piece of art I think at least
Exactly. 400k men were on that beach.
The film made it look like there were only a few thousand.
@@finlayfeeney7634 I agree, that was the aim. And in that regard it was a great piece of cinematic art and a great film. A refreshing way to explore an event. But I do feel that the lack of scale and scope let it down slightly. Some CGI to add a few more soldiers or ships and aircraft in the background would have made it a lot better.
Saving Private Ryan has a lack of scope as well. Not a single ship or vessel in the background and the Omaha Beach landings seem to be carried out by just a dozen landing craft on a 200 yard wide section. 😂
Couldn't agree more. The events at Dunkirk are impressive and moving because of the scale of the effort made by ordinary Britons. The film felt like an account of maybe 3 to 4 people. It annoyed the hell out of me. I think Foyle's War's depiction of Dunkirk (as a side story) evoked more emotions in me than this film.
This was a very cool watch. Thank you to everyone involved.
James Holland is most definitely one of my go to historians. His books are second to none in my view, as is his commentary on any forum.
Given the memes it has generated, "Downfall" (2004) certainly rates as something special in the eyes of contemporary internet culture. Concerning this video, it might have been interesting to see Holland's opinion of "Enemy at the Gates" (2001), just to get his views on the Russian perspective of WWII.
Totally and it'd be interesting to contrast it with something like The Battle of Stalingrad (1949) or Stalingrad (1993) to get his opinion on how various eras have covered that particular battle, and for what reasons, since you'd then get a more international, a post-war Soviet and a unified German perspective on the battle from various points in time.
@@TheIvanNewb Yeah, but only the '93 Stalingrad, the new one is very bad. Tora Tora Tora is also a very good film.
@@TheIvanNewb Battleship Potempkin would be great too! I'd love to hear Mr. Holland "reacting" to that film also.
Yes, I loved that movie. The Russian side of the Eastern Front was fascinating. The stories of heroism from the Russians almost defy belief. I always loved the story from Stalingrad how only every other man got a rifle. When the guy in front of you got killed, you were supposed to grab his (brilliantly depicted in the old COD: Finest Hour video game). That was their mindset. They threw as much humanity as possible at the Germans. A bunch of people were fighting with bricks and pipes and anything else they could find by the end of it.
@@ericbrown1101 Yeah, those Russians sacrificed a helluva lot. Not saying other countries didn't. But they were particularly...valorous, is the word, I suppose.
I practically consider Downfall the actual historical record it's so well done.
First i was sceptical about this. Now i admire James Holland and his style and sound knowledge. Well done.
I think it was a good thing that Alan Turing was honoured by the imitation game, especially given how he was treated after the events dramatized in the movie
Yeah, that was probably their reasoning for deviating from historical accuracy. Sort of compensating for what he went through (some of which was included in the movie. Poor guy).
But it’s total, total horseshit.
@@davepayne164 That bad, eh?
There’s a great book called x y and z the real story of how enigma was broken by Demort Turing (Alan Turing’s nephew) that really focuses on the polish codebreakers story.
But the thing is, Turing DID do amazing things. They didn't *need* to throw other people under the bus, like Hugh Alexander, John Tiltman (of the famous Tiltman break), Gordon Welchman, Bill Tutte, and of course Joan Clarke herself, whose role was pretty much eliminated from the film. If you actually read about how many brilliant minds were there, and how they worked together, you'd see that Turing fit in well and was amongst his intellectual peers. Yes, he was brilliant, but as Mr Holland pointed out, he was a central cog in a giant machine. From the Wrens and their listening stations, to the Enigma, to the largely forgotten Lorenz cipher (which was broken and provided much, MUCH more important strategic information to the Allies than Enigma), the number of people involved was massive. And they were all sworn to secrecy. It took over 30 years for any inkling of what happened at Bletchley Park to start coming out.
Bruno Ganz in Downfall at the peak of his amazing acting career. It was controversial in Germany when it came out because it seemed to humanize Hitler.
bruno ganz is an absolutely great actor and his role as hitler is certainly fantastic, but i’m sad that his other roles have been overshadowed by “downfall”.
Bruno ganz great actor seen him in other films downfall is brilliant
I was an extra in "Bankomat", had the possibility to see him acting, a genius.
Well. Hitler was a human. A very disturbed human. He was not a monster, but a human, just like you and me. Although a very sick human. I wonder what would have happened if he had gotten psychological help to deal with his demons.
@@MVEProducties Hitler was a monster he started a second world war nearly wiped out a religion plus many others died because of him he was a monster and human as well
According to several memoirs I've read, Hitler actually felt rather intimidated by some of the senior officers raised in the old Prussian tradition like Heinrici, Manstein, and Rundstedt. They in turn had derogatory remarks about Hitler in staff meetings referring to him as 'the Bohemian corporal'.
Das Boot is the film to judge all others by 100 percent. Saving Private Ryan on release in cinemas was a visually stunning piece of work that made you stay shocked till the end of the very last credits. That said, after an excellent effects laden first 20 minutes soon fades into the usual Hollywood cliche war movie. Yes it has good scenes and direction but in the end it’s a bit stereotypical. D Day not at all engaging and Fury the biggest disappointment of all.
Have you read "Armee der Geächteten" by Felix Steiner? I don't know if there is an English translation.
Old Prussian tradition was doomed to failure in modern war.
@@growlers90 By the way, a good war film was " Steiner das Eiseren Kreuz" with James Coburn. Was more action than realistic but the actors are very good .
albert speers book goes into that
@@g.feu.hexamethylentriperox5520 Cross of Iron is a fantastic movie directed by Sam Peckinpah. I saw it on release as a 17 year old, some scenes filmed in slo-motion and especially the tank attack in the factory are still memorable now ! Not much in common with Willi Heinrich’s book though 👍🏻
James Holland is THE man on WWII history.
Dear James. Thank you! I never buy books. I just bought yours. You truly deserve any and all support. You are the man! Humans need people like you! Ondrej
Germans know how to to make excellent WWII movies as realistic as possible.
Das Boot, Stalingrad, Downfall
Generation War
@@trajanic3623 I always find Generation War to be a bit apologist, the same as Stalingrad
@@joejohnson8789 Agreed , i didn't like that side of it , if i was German it would stop me watching it.
@@joejohnson8789 I thought the point of those were to be "anti-war"
@@dagbakka9995 they were, but also a lot of the time they either accidentally or actively play up to the 'Wehrmacht myth', whereby if Jews or civilians are being murdered its by a caricature of the SS whilst the main characters are always against it. It's rare to find a German film or series about ww2 where there is actually a nuanced approach to the wehrmacht's involvement in the atrocities. A good exception to this is 'The Captain' though which gives an excellent account of the madness at the end of the war and how someone can be driven to commit atrocities by their interactions
One of the problems for movie makers doing combat scenes is they have to present what the paying public expect to see, if they presented anything really accurate for the most part the public would say "it didnt look real"
Best instance of this is Anthony Hopkins in A Bridge Too Far. He had to tone down his performance because the real John Frost is too unbelievable
Yes, that's definitely an issue. I've always found it kind of funny that it's often the most realistic parts of something that people are skeptical of in movies. However, in the case of the Omaha Beach scene in Saving Private Ryan, I remember reading somewhere that Spielberg wanted to film the scene in a way that was less concerned with the accuracy of the reality, and more about how the experience felt for the people landing on the beach. For instance, in this video he mentions the machine guns firing constantly would have melted the barrels, which is of course true. But for the people on the beach, dozens of machine guns firing bursts would have produced the constant buzz of machine gun fire that probably sounded like someone just laying on the trigger. And I think that's why I've seen so many veterans of that landing who saw that movie and said it was like being there again. The scene may not be the most accurate, but I imagine that it is far more accurate to the way the soldiers perceived the event than it is to how an observer from afar would have seen it. Everything is always more chaotic when you're in the middle of it. Either way, a fantastic opening scene, even from just a cinematic perspective.
A great miniseries that to me seemed accurate because there were moments where I thought it didn't seem real is generation kill. Its about the Iraq war and its quite good
I think this hasn't been totally true since the advent of the internet. The tact that most people take now is the appreciation for historical accuracy. People make videos, write articles, and generally just blab that something wasn't accurate enough and/or praise media that do accurately portray historical events
@@beezzarro The vast bulk of cinema goers have no idea what combat looks like, that goes for almost all internet content, there is still comparatively little authentic combat footage that isnt manipulated or sanitised for the public
Comedy or no, that moment in JoJo where Scarlett’s shoes just silently come into frame is still burned into my memory. 😢
I love these videos of historians breaking down films!! Please keep them coming
Jojo Rabbit was a really interesting film for me. Yes, it used comedy to tell a story, but the amount of times it hits you with real life feelings, emotions and the overall impact of war was so impactful. Probably one of the best Taika films made.
JOJO RABBIT falls in the same genre as CATCH-22. LIFE IS BEAUTIFUL. MASH.
@@leoperidot482 Life is beautiful is kinda offensive tho: a non-Jewish guy explains to Jews on how he thinks they should have acted in concentration camps. Mel Brooks was offended and said that despite making a parody of Hitler in Producers, he made fun of Nazis, making them ridiculous, not trying to put the fun in the Holocaust! And the message... lie to the kid until big white Americans come and save you? Reality was quite different, Jojo nails it in that the mother is trying to show Jojo the truth that he doesn't see due to indoctrination. And there's no fun heroic salvation there. The Allies raped, pillaged and murdered Germans... People from concentration camps that were unlucky to end up on Soviet side were transferred straight to Gulags. Americans weren't saint either, just ask the French women. Life is Beautiful is a very fake, make-believe take on it all.
it is realistic potrayal of hitler as a human being in the imagination of a boy
JoJo Rabbit was to me very accurate.The Hitler youth,The Gestapo snooping around,book burning at the camp and other things.Few people know that there were Germans who were against Hilter ordinary people,not just the plot to blow up Hitler carried out by Claus Von Stauffenberg.Some of my father,s relatives in Germany were for Hitler and others against him.A distant cousin,Dr.Werner Hilpert spent 5 and a half years in Buchenwald and had his offices wrecked during Kristallnacht because he aided Jewish business men and women.Grandma,s first cousin zReinhold had to flee for his life because even though he was cleared of the accusation of being Jewish,the Gestapo was going to arrest him anyways for his anti nazi views.
@@hildahilpert5018 funny how after the war many germans claimed to help jews , while doing the opposite when hitler ruled
I'm glad James pointed out the small amount of ammunition available to fighter planes in WW2. It's always irked me when I see a pilot in films with his finger on the trigger for several seconds at a time, he would be out of ammo after just one encounter!
I really like this guy since I saw documentaries on tv with him, he looks very passionate and you can see that he knows his topic ! I just watched 'Dunkirk' and I was expecting this breakdown, bc it was good as a film but from a historical pov it's not even worse when you realize that Nolan managed to do a movie happening mostly in France... without showing any french (almost)! Ppl tend to forget the sacrifice of french soldiers.
I've always admired James Holland. His appearances on war shows is always amazing. A very close family friend of ours was the former Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Chicago when my father, who was an Episcopal priest, was Dean of St. James Cathedral from 72-78. He remained a very close friend of our family up until his death a couple years ago at 98. He was also a US Army Chaplain and was at Normandy the next day after the invasion. I remember him telling us how absolutely ghastly it was. The water was red with all the blood of the men who died. He also said there were body parts everywhere you looked, the water, the beach, going inland. And the stench of dead Allied and German soldiers was overpowering.
James Holland is brilliant. He’s so enthusiastic about his subjects. His books are incredible, well worth diving in to.
Like every infantryman, I was trained as a Mg gunner1 in the Austrian Army for MG 74 (similar to MG 42) but I have also shot the MG 42 several times. Changing the barrel after a box of ammunition is enough. Barrel is handed over by MG gunner 2, takes less than 10 seconds including inserting a new belt.
Is it not the MG3 now a days. Just chambered in 7,62 Nato and not 7,92 which was used back in ww2
Well, he's a historian.
And yup 250 rounds is a peacetime regulation. MG3 instructor and 3 times abroad using "for real" here. PS. Pretty sure they have spare barrels in a bunker...
I think something else would have failed before the MG barrel got red hot.
@@mikkel066h MG3 is the german one, the Austrians call it the MG74 and the italians call it the MG 42/59. the italians are the most honest in my opinion.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 But perhaps they call it MG 59/42 meanwhile... because they love switching the sides.
Badumm Tssssss
Never thought I'd have a reason to subscribe to Penguin Books _UK's_ channel, but this video was absolutely fantastic. TBH, I thought I was watching _GQ's_ channel at first, but whether it's on that channel, or that of _Vanity Fair, Wired,_ etc., I love expert analysis of film & TV scenes. I've now watched a few more on your channel, and have subscribed, so hope you keep these up. This was the one I found most informative, so hope you can have Holland back, even if you don't publish another of his books soon.
Many veterans apparently say that the opening scene to Saving Private Ryan was extremely accurate to what happened
In reality it was much more violent. Of the first wave the only men who survived did so because they played dead. All the men on the main beach did was die. The only time tides changed was when a side squad made their way to that beach from their landing area, then diverted the Germans attention. Then the men on the beach were able to move up. Prior to that, it was just guys landing 15-30 minutes apart, all of them dying, those surviving just hiding behind boats, bodies, logs, or playing dead.
I would have never considered Jojo Rabbit a more historically accurate film than Imitation Game, but James makes some good points here!
but he rated them similarly in historical accuracy. 1 for imitation game and 1-2 for jojo rabbit
They say everyone has a doppelgänger somewhere in the world. There's an American actor name Robert Sean Leonard who has any uncanny resemblance to Alan Turing.
What's interesting about THE IMITATION GAME is that MI-5 and MI-6 seemed to know everyone's business inside out. And yet they didn't know Turing was a homosexual? Or did they?
he has no clue. As a software engineer i can assure you Alan Turing constribution was emense . Its not accident that he has named singlehandetly turing completes the undecidability of halting problem and there are Awards in his name. He was a major contributor to computer sinece along Kleene, Church, etc.
@@JosiahWarren his issue with the movie is them making Alan Turing to be the sole contributor while neglecting the contribution of others.
@@JosiahWarren I’ll have to disagree with you here. I watched the Imitation game movie with my Cybersecurity class for my major, and yes we did learn he did contribute to many of modern computers, but in no way did he contribute any major effects compared to others during WW2.
The movies failure was perspective, and I have to agree with the historian here.
Veterans of Dunkirk who saw the film said it was very accurate, and so did veterans of D-Day, but they would perhaps have been looking at the films in terms of 'accurate enough' to get across the 'feel' of what was happening.
Veteran Affairs actually had a hotline for PTSD vets who had a go at watching saving private ryan because it was so spot on.
And i heard a veteran us tank driver talking about "fury" and telling that the combat scenes were accurate.....No disrespect, but veterans are human beings; so they might apreciate it when the inaccuracy in war movies goes their way......
To be fair, Holland praised the feel of these two movies. He’s focusing on the details with his criticisms but praised the atmosphere and overall depiction.
@@draxxgecko2635 Fury was a great film... But not very accurate. Those Tiger tanks were armoured out the tits. I understand that the film was made in a period when America tried to feel particularly good about itself (and its foreign policy) through its media; and we know what Ayer's politics are (loosely, pro-"law and order" and highly militaristic). I hear the denouement is based on Audie Murphy's actions in the field which resulted in him being awarded the Purple Heart, or The Medal Of Valor or whatever its called?
Again, it's a great film. One of my favourite war films ever. But absolutely a piece of neo-imperialist propaganda in the guise of a WWII metaphor.
@@joshualane1716 Exactly....This man is an expert and he deals in facts .....So his opinion carries a lot of weight.
James Holland was very correct about saying there were a lot more code breaking entities than the British’s Alan Turing. In my home town of Dayton Ohio there was a gentleman named Joseph R. Desch who worked for the NCR Company. He was asked by the U.S. government to work on cracking the code of the Enigma Machine in a nondescript building on NCR’s campus. He and his crew broke the German Navy’s 4 rotor code Enigma Machine. Alan Turing actually came to Dayton Ohio for a month to see Joseph Desch’s work. Poland was also working on code breaking even before England was. It took a whole bunch of people to crack the Enigma Machine.
Great vid, totally loved how he crapped on the “imitation game,” and just rolled on.
I agree. I would love to see more of these reviews. As for this clip, I felt that the fifteen-twenty minutes of the 2007 film Atonement more realistically depicted the chaos and despair of Dunkirk than Nolan was able to do in 2.5 hours.
Agreed. There was something surreal about the emptiness and silence of the beach in “Dunkirk”.
Atonement had its critics though, particularly with Dunkirk veterans who didn't like the close packed chaos and ill discipline shown. " Where were the lines of men patiently queuing in the sea?" They said. The Director countered their argument saying that nothing he showed wasnt inaccurate but faithfully recreated the instances reported in many accounts. "True" said the veterans, but reminded him the beach was miles long and accounts were taken from the entire 2 or 3 miles, not 800 m bunched together and giving an altogether different impression.
@@AncientAbsWisdom And i thought that was just me???
sorry , meant for Jody Ferguson..
That was a very fun watch! Glad to finally hear an actual historian’s opinions on Saving Private Ryan’s opening scene. Way too many internet armchair historians praising it unconditionally.
I have no idea how any director can make a film about Normandy and completely ignore the British, Canadians and Free French. Even in the context of that particular film it rankles.
@@ivorbiggun710 the movie wasn’t about D-Day overall the opening was just depicting the experience of the Rangers on that section of beach.
Guyona Buffalo,
But there were British landing craft pilots taking the Rangers ashore at Omaha. They aren't shown. Now personally I don't mind the British not being shown in the film. What I do mind is the British effort being mocked in the dialogue (that unnecessary, mean spirited, and completely inaccurate dialogue about Montgomery between Hanks and Danson) and then the story stealing British Normandy history. The Americans didn't face Tiger tanks in Normandy. The British did, and the Tiger has the marking of a Schwere SS Panzer Abteilung 101 Tiger which fought the British at Villers Bocage on June 13th....the same date as the fictional battle of Ramelle in the film.
That leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth.
Band of Brothers will always be superior.
@@ivorbiggun710 Films have to be about individuals for the audiences to connect. The facts are for historians and documentarians.
Always love hearing an expert give their insight into scenes based on historical events
James Holland is one seriously awesome historian. Love learning from him and others in Greatest Events of WWII In Colour.
Already have the book ‘Brothers in Arms’ - recommended. James Holland failed to mention Das Boot - probably the best submarine movie ever - it captures the claustrophobic life under the sea and the tension of having to rely on one man’s decisions for survival and the stress that creates for the one man - the Commanding Officer.
Failed to mention Conspiracy too with a brilliant Branagh performance as Heydrich
I agree completely Das Boot is one of the best movies I’ve ever watched. It’s the film submariners like to watch too, apparently.
@@seosamhdubh "Conspiracy" often gets left off lists because it was made for television. A shame really because it's a great film.
Agree with your high opnion of Das Boot. The full-length TV series particularly brought home some of the tedium experienced by submariners during the course of a patrol.
Master and Commander: On the Far Side of the World is one of those rare masterpieces where historical accuracy isn't boring for the casual viewer. If you haven't seen it yet check it out.
Downfall is a perfect film in my opinion. There’s some moments that don’t live up to “perfection” but in terms of cinema, they crafted and knit these scenes together seamlessly. It has that dramatic chaos that descends into madness and I just love a film that you can watch over and over again and STILL feel like the first time.
A great video from a really engaging and knowledgeable presenter. Could we have more of these, please?
I think this might be the best historian vs movies reviews i’ve seen. James Holland is such a genuine guy, and you can see he just loves his proffesion as well as movies. My favorite 10/10
It has been my great pleasure to have exchanged emails with Mr. Holland and he is indeed a very fine historian and a nice gentleman as well. My main objection to Saving Private Ryan was that there are countless incredible stories from WWII that actually happened. My sensibilities are that there is no reason to make up stories (yes, I know that a true story inspired the film) when there are so many true stories that are just as thrilling!
I am always somewhat wary of any Hollywood film which is 'inspired' by true events.
My main objection to Saving Private Ryan is that it strips away the Hollywood glorification of war for the first bit of the movie (the landings, the madic's death) and then lays it back on with a trowel for the last bit, rag-tag heroes holding off tanks with home-made sticky sock-bombs and a nice hollywoodl death for the main guy.
I got the impression that Spielberg was "stealing" from the movie "The Longest Day", for example the scene with the breakthrough of the barbed wire using Bangalores, running up for a quick fight for the trenches, and then shooting some germans trying to surrender.
My main gripe though is that the movie sure depicts the horrors of war concerning the American soldiers, but the German soldiers are just faceless targets most of the time (except for the duplicitous bastard they run into twice).
The D-Day scene with the conscripts pleading “Please don't shoot me! I am not German, I am Czech, I didn't kill anyone! I am Czech!" and that the majority of audiences wouldn't be aware of this detail is amazing.
@@ivorbiggun710 According to Hollywood standards, the Lord of the Rings is based on true events, because some dude had a ring once and lost it. The phrase means nothing.
thanks for the good vid and hard work
liked and subscribed 👍
Good work, James Holland. Reasoned, sensible, credible. Thank you.
"Downfall" was such an incredible film to watch for its performances, but learning it was so accurate to real life is unsettling.
It actually wasn't really. Not sure why he says that, but most historians agree on the opposite.
@@truckwarrior5944 How many historians are there and how many agree on the opposite?
@@jarod1701 Basically all historians that ever spoke about the movie disagree.
In Germany the society of historians even launched a campaign to educate people how far off this movie is.
@@truckwarrior5944 can you tell how it was inaccurate? I really need to know
@@Somespideronline There is lots of mistakes in it. Would take me quite some time to list all of them.
For that you might wanna look up what historians said about it.
But I'll just drop 2 nice examples of expert-opinions.
The German historian Michael Wildt compared the movie to 1935s Mutiny on the Bounty in historical accuracy. He pointed out how they sometimes just used known names (like Mohnke) to have characters that seem historically accuraty, even though they are not (especially Mohnkes portrails was flawed).
Roschus Misch pointed out, that even though the makers did claim they had contacted eyewitnesses of what happened, he was never contacted by them or their writers, they claimed they did have contact with him though. He criticised them heavily for adding stuff that was just impossible for dramatic effect (like people hearing Hitler shooting Eva Braun and himself, which is impossible because the machine room was in between the room they commited suicide in and the rest of the bunker. There was just no way to hear those shots over the machines or through the walls).
that was great. Please make more: Stalingrad (old one), Bridge too far, Kelly's Heroes, Fury, Enemy at the gates...
Don't forget Das Boot
Kelly's Heroes, while not realistic, is easily the most fun and entertaining WW2 movie ever. Such a great script and cast of characters.
And midway
Unknown Soldier
I love Kelly's Heroes but it is not what I would call a 'proper' war film. Neither is the Dirty Dozen now I think about it, but it is equally entertaining. Nor Where Eagles Dare for that matter either.
Downfall blew my socks off when I first saw it nearly 20 years ago (dear lord, I AM old)...I am thrilled to hear it is as accurate as I thought it might be.
Would love to see you tackle the films covering WWI, particularly 1917.
I love how this cat can understand the historical/factual inaccuracies yet still understand that a movie needs to be entertaining for entertainment sake and can see films for both their facts and entertainment and still enjoy an entertaining movie! ENTERTAINMENT!
Jojo Rabbit was a brilliant movie. The comedy caught the madness of the whole thing perfectly. Yorki has the best lines in any movie too. 'And how are we doing?
Yorki : Terribly. Our only friends are the Japanese. And just between you and me, they don't look very Aryan.'
Yorkie is one of the best parts in the whole film
By the sound of it, the Dunkirk beach scene in Atonement is much more accurate than what we see in Nolan's film, and personally I feel it's much more interesting as well, not as sterile.
Agree, I thought that the Dunkirk beach scene in Atonement was breath-taking.
This may speak to the marketing more than anything but I thought it was intentional. Going into Dunkirk, I was expecting a surreal psychological movie that takes place during a war, not a war movie. Something closer almost to a survival horror film than, say, Saving Private Ryan.
Without a doubt. One scene in a film not even about Dunkirk did it way better than a film that was
The 3 part drama made around 2004 starring Benedict Cumberbatch (been repeated again this weekend, can't remember which channel though) did it more justice and it actually dealt with the soldiers who were sacrificed trying to keep the narrow corridor to Dunkirk open to allow others to escape and also dealt with the small boat flotilla too.
Heck, the Dunkirk beach scene at the beginning of the Battle of Britain (1969) is more realistic than Dunkirk.
Really cool video. I hope you get him to do a 2nd episode with some old goodies... Powell's Lean's Reed's etc
Would love to see him review “Hurricane” it’s about the Polish unit who joined the RAF. It’s (according to my great uncle) brutally true. It shows the negativity they got, the difficulties around integrating… (source: My great uncle was a young man signed up to patch up the returning planes, refuel, reload etc etc. His older mates were more involved in flying, so they went to the pubs after and clashed with the Polish pilots etc. So, at least in that part, I know it was spot on)