Unseen Warfare was indeed written in the West, but there’s a reason both St. Theophan the Recluse and St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite both heavily edited it. It’s misleading to say monks on Mt. Athos simply “embraced and spread the mystic teachings of Roman Catholics.”
The devout monk Lorenzo Scupoli is credited by these Athonite Saints while they also adjusted what needed to align more with the fullness of Orthodoxy. The irony is lost on you considering Fr. Peter is saying the same thing: a post schism practice isn’t inherently heretical and can be adapted to fully embody Orthodox dogma. Please reconsider how deeply polemical and prejudiced you sound *East good West bad*… it’s all so tiresome.
@@Handmaiden_Daphne it actually wasn't originally credited to Scopuli when first circulated in the east because it was so heavily rewritten, and to get people to read it at all. Read the intro to the SVS published edition of Unseen Warfare. The west went into schism for a reason and to claim any concerns are "hurr durr west bad east good" is gross ignorance of the fathers and the spiritual practices that remain in line with the deposit of faith vs the prelest factory of post schism western "mystical contemplative" practices.
@@the4gospelscommentary Yes, that’s how history and time works. Men from the 400s made a quote just for you to feel better about a devotion you can’t/won’t understand. The Ephesus quote you’re referencing is a Nestorian rejection saying we can’t separate Jesus by his natures. The reverence of the Sacred Heart isn’t Nestorian. Any child known the phrase “our heart” refers to our body AND our seat of emotion/self. For you* to claim the Sacred Heart is Nestorian, it’s requires that *you make a Nestorian argument that separates Jesus’s heart (in symbol or in fact) from the rest of His being. I’ll then ask you about your reverence for the Precious Blood of Christ.
I'm not a member of the Orthodox Church (yet), but as someone from a different culture, I understand that it is me that has to strive to adapt to the tradition and practices of the Church, not the other way around. I must change and learn, to hopefully be adopted and then preserve the tradition.
How is acknowledging that Jesus loved us with a real human heart creepy? God doesn’t just love us in an indescribable way, but in a human way beyond even the love our earthly parents could.
@@jayleenv.7975 St Cyril of Alexandria is the primary source here. There isn't enough space to properly give this subject the attention it deserves. There is an excellent article on patristic faith titled an Orthodox analysis of Sacred Heart Worship that should be read. It goes in-depth on the semi-Nestorian Christology presupposed in the RC position.
A few things i noticed that make me doubt the intentions of the speaker: . to say that "To be Orthodox does not mean to be Eastern" is nonsensical and arbitrary at best. as Orthodox Theology did not developed in a vacuum. This is a text book move of semantic ambiguity done in order to re-frame and redirect the meaning of words. . That anything can be baptized doesn’t mean everything can or should be baptized. . To claim that the western church that the saints embraced is the same as the post Vatican 2 western church we deal with today is kinda naive. . The constant remark of - “Who am I to say?” - feels like emotional blackmailing. similar to "who am I to say this man is not a woman?" . We can not say when something is wrong? That seems to be what councils are doing when rejecting heresies. . He dictates the Criteria by which to evaluate the sacred heart at the same time he says who are we to say? - contradiction. . What is beautiful - cant be the only criteria for embracing something. . The asymmetry between the poetic emotional weight of his delivery and the lack of validity of his arguments.
“Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must be Eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years, and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies.” + Saint John Maximovich
@@matheusmotta1132 Considering the Fact that I, the author of the original comment, am Mexican of Birth, you can say i understand what St John Maximovich points out. But i find, the attempt of divorcing Orthodox Theology from the Historical Contexts of its origins and developments futile, given for example the fact that Christianity is essentially a Middle Eastern Religion.
"Who am I to say" My catholic friends helped lead me to orthodoxy, and I know well in their hearts they love God with all their hearts. Your response is so uncharitable and a clear strawman when modern sexual issues which are completely unrelated. Although the Holy Spirit led me without a doubt to orthodoxy, "who am I to say" applies to where God leads each individual. I am a lay man, and although he is a priest, even he knows that God has a plan for each of us. Please do not harden your heart, you listened defensively, with no charity.
It’s my understanding that sacred heart worship has its origins in Frankish body division practices that popes have condemned. ***Antioch Western Rite just removed Sacred Heart.
Best book on the topic is Charbonneau Lassay’s “Vulnerary of Christ”. Shows how the devotion to the Sacred Heart developed out of the iconography and devotions of the early church. Pretty surprising reading actually
YALL ARE NOT GETTING IT!!. Father is saying there is beauty in other christian denominations but we have to stand firm in our Orthodox beliefs and guide them back to the truth. the sacred heart was an example! he was not declaring it to be right and correct. Good lord! You RUclips/Instagram othodox people need to go to Church! Also i looked up the parish this priest is over and it's my understanding that it is being shared with a Catholic church. Which makes sense since Wichita Falls is a tiny little town. I was stationed there for training year 10 years ago. Everyone should just calm down and talk to your priest before making an ignorant comment. Lord Have Mercy!
What he says in the video is that currently there are discussions on the antiochian WR to determine the validity of these practices. Is specially in these kinds of situations that's important to be vocal and defend what's orthodox...
@@778FraxK and i agree with you but at the same time you can’t treat people poorly and dismiss someone just bc they miss the mark according to our standards.
True, I personally didn't find any offensive comments against the priest, only people criticizing the sacred heart and the defense of it's practice. At most people are saying that he is too ecumenical. That's not really an offense
Weird devotion created through a prelest vision by a nun seeking to stroke her own ego. Orthodox Christians should have nothing to do with the "sacred" heart.
@@Ephesians6twelve The sacred heart devotion (in its original form at the very least, centuries before Alacoque) doesn't involve directing worship at a disconnected "piece" of Christ. It is just a devotion meditating on his love for mankind.
I’m glad y’all did these videos on the WR but I honestly think they’ve probably damaged the perception of the WR than helped and it shows the valid problems that many people have with the Western Rite.
Yeah this was like the worst example they could have shown Ss. Tikhon and John would in no way condone this gross ecumenism on display here with foreign spiritual practices. They want a western right fine. We dedicate every WR parish to a hesychast saint so their prayers can keep this insane prelest in check. Deal. No deal that can go become papists and anglicans. This is pure insanity.
“It is better that scandals arise, than the truth be suppressed” - St. Gregory the Great The only thing this has done is reveal a major problem in our Church, and it isn’t the WR.
I am personally a big supporter the WR, and embrace it with open arms! It certainly has potential for evangelization in the west. Though, respectfully, I have to disagree with the sacred heart devotion. Just to briefly mention its horrific origin story, it comes from Mary Margaret, a Catholic nun in prelest who stripped naked from her habit and used a knife to carve into her chest the name of Jesus. Then wrote a message in her cell with her own blood calling herself a great disciple. The main problem, however, is that the sacred heart divides the worship in Christ. Orthodoxy teaches explicitly that because Christ is one, the worship we give to Him must be singular. We cannot worship His divine nature one moment, and His human nature another, let alone in parts. It is textbook Nestorianism. I was also a former Roman Catholic before I converted so I understand the attachment, but it must be let go. It is uneeded and confuses the simplicity of our worship. There's also no reason why you can't have devotions to the sacred foot, the sacred tongue, or the sacred lungs, the sacred whatever because it's arbitrary. Was not Christ's entire human nature made holy? I love the Western Rite, but this is one area where it falls short. One is better off with the Pantocrator icon.
I agree and am not a fan of SH, but research it again, it doesn’t come from her. The way it has been practiced and popularized in Roman Catholicism, yes, but it didn’t start with her.
@@aterrt8523There were many “visions” of hearts over the centuries, pierced hearts, glowing hearts. They all seemed to come from visions. So a central demonic apparition weather it was one Mary, another Mary, some medieval mystic. And before that the idea was devotion to the wounds on Jesus. All this is an emotionalism and devotion to the human nature instead of all of Christ. It’s all a strange sensual emotionalism which has no place on the Church.
I dont really see the reason to flirt with the practices of heretics and schismatics. It's not quite the same as "baptizing" pagan practices that reflect some truth and beauty regarding Christ. They from come from people and traditions that have actively rejected the Truth of Christ. And it also goes against the concept which Fr Peter seems to champion of the unaltered nature of the Liturgy of St Gregory. If you are trying to add post schism practices and feasts to the Ancient Orthodox worship, you have departed from that unaltered Orthodox worship that he seems to love. I have no problem with the Liturgy of St Gregory nor with Gregorian chants. I think he fairly points out that those practices are in fact Orthodox. But when you add the vestment styles of heretics, the practices and feasts of heretics, it is something beyond what Western Orthodoxy was and could still be today. And I really don't get it with the flat wafers. I don't care if they are technically leavened when you go out of the way to then make it look unleavened. Thats a huge red flag for me personally i just cant wrap my head around that bizzare and unheard of practice.... Edit: Please forgive me, I am not trying to condemn Fr Peter or any Western Rite brothers and sisters, just sharing my heartfelt concerns I would have with this approach to it
@UnworthySeraphim I do think the potential for "baptizing" elements from heterodox confessions is much, much greater than from pagan cultures. Most heterodox Christians did not make any active choice against Orthodoxy. Most of them have never even heard of it. These were people with genuine piety and faith in Christ. They may have some false beliefs, and may be out of communion with the whole Church, but that's more an accident of history and geography than an obstinate promotion of heresy. Accordingly, we at least need to ask ourselves -- as Fr Peter encourages us -- what developed in those cultures that was good and true and beautiful? Some of it is false or ugly or harmful. But certainly not everything. Everyone loves "Hark! the Herald Angel Sing," right? That's a perfectly Orthodox hymn. It's a beautiful hymn. It's definitely not pre-schism. It wasn't even written by a member of an apostolic church - it was a Protestant! But if we can baptize Plato, we can surely "chrismate" Wesley (if you will).
I think the aproch we ahould do is looking in to the first 1000 years of the church, and build the Western Rite according to the Orthodoxy that was in the west I like the idea to rebuild the old Gregorian liturgies, but we must follow the way of the first millenia and folow the Athority of the Ecumenical counsals.
There is only one Universal Church. Christ gave the keys to the Kingdom to One Apostle. This is probably why “Orthodox” schismatic Churches aren’t even in Union with each other and is dying out.
Sounds way too ecumenistic for me. That collar doesn't help too. Besides the false humility (prelest) question "Who am I to say that's not God's working" goes both ways - "Who am I to affirm that's God's working and not a demonic apparition posing as Mary/an angel or Christ?" We've been warned by the Church not to trust our senses and apparitions especially coming from outside of the Church.
The negative comments made by some Orthodox Christians strongly remind me of the rhetoric of Puritan Protestantism disguised as Christian orthodoxy. It seems they forget compassion and love, the hallmarks of any Christian, in their zeal to defend the truth. Their words carry a rigidity, a desire to impose their interpretation of faith, that echoes the fundamentalist Protestant movements that scorn everything that doesn't fit within their rigid doctrinal framework. It is a shame, because many converts to Orthodoxy from fundamentalist Protestantism have yet to leave behind that baggage of prejudice and inflexibility, which only tarnishes the beauty and richness of the Orthodox tradition. Orthodoxy should be a beacon of light and hope, a space for encounter and dialogue, where mercy and comprehension prevail over criticism and judgment. It's crucial to remember that the Christian faith isn't founded on the imposition of dogma but on love, compassion, and the continuous pursuit of truth.
There are good reasons why none of the Orthodox saints have promoted a Western Rite or the use of post-Schism Roman Catholic practices and beliefs. We need to follow the discernment of the saints and councils and not just address these things sentimentally by asking “who are we to judge?” St. John of SF allowed a group in France to use a Western Rite but he came to regret it and that group apostatized. Aside from that one strange group, St. John of SF did not encourage Fr. Seraphim Rose or any of his priests or spiritual children in the West to use or promote a Western Rite. St. Tikhon had the Anglican rite reviewed in Russia to provide advice on how the rite would need to be modified to be more Orthodox but that is not the same as endorsing a Western Rite for use in Orthodox churches in the West. This effort by St. Tikhon was in the early 20th century in the context of possibly receiving the Anglicans into the Orthodox Church en masse, which did not transpire and is not applicable to current times. In Russia where iconography and chant was influenced by post-Schism Roman Catholicism, among other saints, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov spoke against this corruption of Orthodox chanting and St. John of SF (whose memory is misused as supposedly blessing the WR), spoke against Westernized iconography. Orthodox saints have also condemned the use of unleavened bread and other such practices. To sentimentally ask “who are we to judge” while Orthodox saints with spiritual discernment have indeed evaluated and judged these things is deceptive and delusional. Look at the contemporary Orthodox saints who came to the West to help establish authentic Orthodox tradition, especially Elder Ephraim of Arizona and St. Sophrony of Essex. They neither used nor promoted a Western Rite while living among and serving people in the West for decades. Some people have been trying to promote a WR within the Orthodox Church for a long time but there is little spiritual fruit that has resulted. No mass conversions have taken place while the WR remains full of controversy over disagreements on what should be permitted and what should be excluded. To suggest St. John of SF or St. Tikhon would be accepting of post-Schism innovations is extremely ignorant and disrespectful to their blessed memories. It is best to use the rites that have been handed down for centuries within the Orthodox Church and which the saints up to the present time have both used and promoted.
I’m Orthodox, Eastern rite, happily so. I have no “devotion” to the sacred heart. However, I grew up in a gnostic and immoral home. As a teenager I received a funeral card in the mail from my far-away Catholic grandmother’s funeral. The image on the front was Jesus pointing to His heart, and at that point, it was the only gospel I knew that actually connected. That image tugged at me over years and years, beckoning me to the love of Jesus. It is a powerful image with a major influence in leading me home to the Orthodox Church. Notwithstanding all the judgmental ideologues in this comment section.
Your personal experience has no bearing on the question at hand. I was drawn to Orthodoxy through reading Plato so what, Christians should accept the teachings of Plato now? The sacred heart doctrine has been condemned by the Church - were the fathers at the ecumenical council "judgmental ideologues" too? You're treading dangerous waters with such pronunciations.
@@johnjoyce8518 Sacred Heart is a Nestorian heresy introduced by franks and jesuits and violates Ephesus’ dogma that after the Union there is only one worship and adoration given to the whole incarnate Christ. It’s an ancient pagan Frankish practice called heart worship / heart burial.
Few fundamentalist converts ever truly convert they just redirect their scholastic anathema. Which is one of the reasons I so often consider heading to Rome as the Orthodox Church in America is plagued by this and it’s becoming a serious blight. I swear they would have all been iconoclasts lol. I have sacred heart stuff because my Catholic friends gave it to me. Who cares. This is not an issue.
Well, as a former roman catholic the adoration of the blessed Sacrament always felt like a lot to me... We were gathered not only on Sundays and feast days but also almost everyday celebrating the Eucharist which already involves adorating Jesus, and most importantly, consuming his immaculate body and his most precious blood, so, when learning about Orthodoxy teaching on the Holy Misteries it made so much sense to me what I had been thinking way back, Christ offers himself as food, as the bread of life, therefore meant to be eaten, not carried around or exposed only for verenetion, because, when we consume Him we give him the right veneration and adoration, no need to put him inside a beautiful reliquary and change the whole purpose of Him staying with us in the Eucharist.
Rationalism, over sentimentality, imaginative meditation are the elements that have led Roman Catholic Church theology to its heretic innovations including all these devotions like Sacred heart and others... Unfortunately Western riters can't discern these Latin elements influence that's why they insist on these devotions... Unfortunately the influence is very much deeper altering the true Orthodox fronema. It's really noticeable that there was not even a word about Jesus prayer, Theotokos was not even once naned only Virgin Mary... Whether they like it or not the Western rite after 1000 years of non Orthodox development is theologically poor on the contrary it has been much much influenced by Latin Roman Catholicism mindset... Regarding liturgics the use of these flatened hostias even leavened as they claim to be are far away from the Orthodox liturgics.. As we know in Eastern rite Byzantine Proskomedia the priest extracts from the prosforo the Lamb aka the piece of bread which will become the Holy Body of Christ, then he extracts the portion of Theotokos, the portion of the orders of the angels and saints then the portions small crumbles for the living and the portions of the dead commemorating the names guven to him... All these portions are together with the Lamb on the Disc of the Eucharist. The whole Church together with Christ in rhe middle... After the Holy Communion the priest throws all these portions of the living and the dead into the Chalice saying:wash off O Lord the sins of your hereby commemorated servants with your Precious Blood. This is the ultimate help the Orthodox Church can offer to the souls of living but mainly to the souls of the deceased faithfuls. This practice doesn't exist in Western rite with the many hostias... There are no portions for the living and dead because there isn't a main prosforo to extract the crumbles...there are individual hostias just to be given at the Communion..This a serious deviation from the Orthodox practice... It resembles the Roman Catholic practice... How do the Western riters help the souls of the living and dead? A serious liturgical deviation among others.
I think you've missed his point. Watch the full longer length video, and study his points. It's actually a very good video, and this Priest is both teaching and acting in humility. To clarify, he is not trying to incorporate heterodox doctrine into the Church. He is explaining the Church’s attitude toward things outside the Church. Sometimes the Church incorporates things into the Church from outside, though only with careful discernment. You see this with pagan elements being “baptized” in. Similarly, he’s explaining that, in principle, it may be possible to “baptize” certain non-Orthodox Christian elements and bring them into the Church, like the image of OL of Guadalupe. (I am sure he's wrong about some stuff, but that priest has a very Orthodox attitude.)
This practice of flat wafers is just another innovation which came from the Franks. It was easier to store them for a long time before use. But it completely removes the concept of Breaking Bread which the apostles constantly talk about. Breaking bread is the Eucharist. From one Body of Christ, we all partake in it and become one with Christ and the Church. Having multiple, removes this, just taking the words breaking break completely out of the church. It makes no sense and is definitely something that will be addressed if WR grows out of the ultra niche thing it is now.
I don’t know that I feel comfortable calling them out. I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt, he interviews many different priests for THEIR opinions.
@r4ngerr4ge32 Yeah, but they were Orthodox priests. I mean I disagreed with some of them but they were clearly Orthodox. I'm not sure about this priest.
@@sfappetrupavelandrei the Western Rite is a sanctioned project by a canonical orthodox Jurisdiction. We are not currently in a position to say wether or not the WR is heretical at its foundations, right now we’re still in the process of seeing wether of not it is feasible, speaking long-term. I am certainly suspect of Western Rite, I came to orthodoxy because it withstood western influence, after all. But, I’d be remiss to just hand-wave the whole rite away merely off of being reactionary. The heart of the matter is wether or not the western rite will be driven by people trying to deliver true and illumined orthodoxy, or if it will be a vehicle for scholastics and western fetishists to try to bring their influences into the Church.
I am in great need of help. My (earthly) mother is a Christian, but she ONLY believes in the 4 gospels. So all of the Old Testament and the rest of the New Testament is not something that she believes. I just find it very troubling and I said to her: “ Without the prophecies of the Old Testament, the people would not be able to see him as the Messiah.” Please help me. God bless 🙏
@@PomazeBog1389 she doesnt believe in Genesis, so she believes in that the world was created by rocks in space clumping together through gravity and getting bigger and bigger.
Ask her who made the Gospels canon. Who preserved and translated them. It was the Church that Christ founded. Ask her how the early church functioned without the written Gospels and no gospel of John.
Bit remember, it's God who calls us to Him. Who opens the eyes of the mind. So ask Him to reveal Himself to your mother, we have the powerful arm of the prayer 🙏 God bless❤☦️
A wise priest once said: “The phenomenon of all this hate and anger and bickering-it’s in non-reality. It happens when we’re not taking time to listen and look at a person face to face. We sit on our little computers and we criticize one other, and we’re tearing apart the Church. Our witness has to be love.” …It was Fr Peter Kavanaugh. In this video…
So he is trying to guilt people into Not saying anything. Well the saints defended the Church against heresy. The idea that we must love every idea and be tolerant towards it all sounds like Pope Francis . There was love for the truth in the Saints and they still had love for the souls who were confused and spreading heresy. Maybe everyone here bickering will not accomplish much. But eventually the Church will address these things and truth will prevail.
It seems like, forgive me, this priest is trying to incorporate Roman Catholic teachings themselves into the Church. I love the Tridentine Mass, but that's about all I think could be celebrated from the West so far as it is reviewed and slightly adjusted to be Orthodox. Meaning its pre-Schism, Gregorian form. I'm not comfortable with the Catholic practices he's teaching about.
To clarify, he is not trying to incorporate heterodox doctrine into the Church. He is explaining the Church’s attitude toward things outside the Church. Sometimes the Church incorporates things into the Church from outside, though only with careful discernment. You see this with pagan elements being “baptized” in. Similarly, he’s explaining that, in principle, it may be possible to “baptize” certain non-Orthodox Christian elements and bring them into the Church, like the image of OL of Guadalupe.
@@b.d.4746 He is sneaky by trying to mask introducing heterodox things with “explaining the Church’s views” This keeps happening time and time again with ecumenists and even pope Francis. He just said “the sacred heart is very orthodox”. Such Christological aspects were never baptized from non Orthodox faiths. It seems to me he is having trouble letting go of some of his heterodox devotions. And these apparitions he talks about are not accepted by the church because they can be very dangerous demonic tricks.
As an Othodox Christian married to a practicing Faithful Roman Catholic wife, I resognate with this priest. Its a really tough subject to cover but he did a very good job
He says "we have to use the criteria: is this good true and beautiful" this is not the Orthodox apostolic criteria, our criteria is following " what always was believed everywhere, always, by all" - quoting a western saint Vincent of Lerins This logic of analyzing and concluding x practice is ok because I find it ok is not following the Orthodox criteria. To those saying "this isn't humble", our duty as Orthodox Christians, laymen included, is to defend the apostolic faith, not innovations. "We do not change the boundaries marked out by our Fathers. We keep the Tradition we have received. If we begin to lay down the Law of the Church even in the smallest things, the whole edifice will fall to the ground in no short time." -St. John of Damascus
""our criteria is following " what always was believed everywhere, always, by all" " Your beliefs are subjective and can be misconstrued or misunderstood. So how would you prove to me that what you believe is actually truer or more reliable than what any other faith claims? Thank you.
Thank you for this! St Vincent’s words hold true to the Church fathers. All this “Good and beautiful” is nonsense. Now a-days anything can be deemed good and beautiful. The demons like to make beautiful things to entice us.
Three points of Fr. Peter from this video: 1 - If Pagan practices can reflect some truth and beauty regarding Christ and be transfigured by the Church, why Heterodox practices can't? The Heterodox are much closer to Holy Orthodoxy than Pagans; 2 - Not every Post-Schism practices are necessarily anti-Orthodox; 3 - The Holy Spirit acts outside of the Church. John 3:8 - The Spirit blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don’t know where it comes from and where it is going.
Something seems off about the WR. I’m not questioning its validity.. it’s just that something feels weird about it. It’s almost like they are LARPing as Catholics or something. Idk.
I get the same feeling. If you visit some ancient churches in Rome, Spain, Germany, UK, you are surprised how similar they are to Eastern Orthodox churches. I don’t know why most WR parishes have to keep so much protestant and RC baggage. I think there are some WR who do go back to real western Orthodoxy, but too many are just trying to keep their heterodox baggage and mindset.
What do you know, a priest that spent years discerning his profession and learning about the faith gives an explanation and a bunch of former fundamentalist converts damn him to hell. 😂
If the laity just accepted what priests and bishops said since they have experience, we would have fallen into arianism and iconoclasm, as the majority of clergy in the Church hold to those (specially in the east for iconoclasm) Defending orthodoxy isn't condemning people to hell, it's actually not being relativistic and wanting people to not go to hell. We shouldn't agree with something when it's wrong, did you see what the laity did when the bishops signed the false council of Florence? It is also the role of the laity to speak when we hear heresy.
@@778FraxKWell said. The people also rebelled against the renovationists during the Russian revolution and many other times. The problem is that people in the west value years of study, education ect. Some of the strongest opponents to heresy were simple monks with no education. There are a lot of priests and even bishops these days saying all sorts of nonsense. There always were. We respect a priest for his honor of ordination, as a pastor to us, but when heresy is being “explored” in a sneaky way, just as Bshp. Kollistos Ware liked to do, it is perfectly valid for all Orthodox Christians to stand against.
The Church's criterion has never been: "Is it pre- or post-schism?" The Church's criterion has always been: "Is it true, good, and beautiful?" If the answer's Yes, then it belongs to the Church. "Plunder the Egyptians"
False. The criterion is that it needs to be accepted by an ecumenical Synod. Because neither you nor I have the discernment to proclaim what is Godly and what is illusion
@@dougoudvincent I didn’t mean you or I should privately decide what’s true or good or beautiful. I mean that when the Church comes together, whether in local or ecumenical synods, its criteria is-and always has been-whether something is true and good and beautiful. In the case of the WR, that’s what the Church has done with many things already, and continues to discern with others.
Sacred heart devotion is not good or true or beautiful. So many of these practices just needlessly muddle the waters There is no reason to plunder heterodoxy
@@joshf2218 The Church disagrees with you re: plundering the Egyptians, even if those Egyptians turn out to be heterodox Christians. The example of “Unseen Warfare” is one; St Nicholas Kabasilas borrowing theological arguments from Anselm of Canterbury would be another; the fact that many Eastern Orthodox Christians sing Christmas carols written by Protestants (outside the liturgy itself) would be yet another. In every case, the Church is careful to excise and purify anything not Orthodox in them. There’s often adaptation and editing. Like St Basil says, we need to “be the bee,” and distinguish the good from the bad. But the Church is also not afraid to appropriate into her own life what’s true, good, and beautiful from outside of it. Not afraid at all. This isn’t watering down the faith. This isn’t a concession of an embarrassment. This is the glory of our faith. We triumphalistically grab whatever’s true, good, and beautiful from outside the Church and say “This is ours now.” It doesn’t really belong to them. It belongs to us. This is how the Church has always operated. That’s the principle at least, which I don’t think is disputable. You can certainly discuss and debate specific examples, like whether there’s any room for some form of the sacred heart devotion. There, Fr Peter prudently doesn’t say the Church should simply rubber stamp the sacred heart devotion. He suggests that, if you look at that devotion historically, there are elements that go back very far into the first millennium, and these should be sifted from later developments that include problematic elements. And so, perhaps for Christians attracted to that devotion, there would be a place for that in the Orthodox Church in some form, stripped of later problematic elements. But this takes research, discussion, and discernment from the Church (and that means real, serious investigation and discernment, not RUclips comment sections, where people emotionally lash out at a priest for suggesting that something good could come out of the West!).
As a RC, I view this Western Rite with curiosity. I have no skin in the game when it comes to adoption of it in the greater Orthodox Churches, but I will say one thing, the Orthodox Church is good at being Orthodox/Eastern/Byzantine and when you are good, at something you should stick to it. The Orthodox Churches differ from the Catholic Church in that they don't have many different rites or traditions like the Catholic Church does with its Western and Eastern Rites that are in full communion with each other, and I don't truly see a parallel in this Western Rite in Orthodoxy. What I notice is that it is attempting to reconstruct a rite that is foreign to it, at best reviving an ancient Rite that was once accepted by the one Church, east and west unanimously, pre-schism, along with the other Rites.
Sometimes people accuse Orthodox of worshiping Mary or icons because they see the outward forms of our practice and refuse to hear us when we explain to them the true meaning. Seems like that is what is happening here.
look :The earliest known hymn to the sacred heart is titled “Heart of Christ My King, I Greet Thee” An example of a sacred heart prayer for the sake of illustration goes as follows: O most holy Heart of Jesus, fountain of every blessing, I adore You, I love You, and with a lively sorrow for my sins, I offer You this poor heart of mine. Make me humble, patient, pure, and wholly obedient to Your will. Grant, good Jesus, that I may live in You and for You. Protect me in the midst of danger; comfort me in my afflictions. Give me health of body, assistance in my temporal needs, Your blessing on all that I do, and the grace of a holy death. Amen. They refer and adore the heart of Christ as a separate individual... This is heretic. Period... Do any Eastern Orthodox dare pray such a prayer? To the heart? As if they were the objects of adoration separate from Christ Himself,? No we adore and pray to Christ as God and Man inseparably not addressing our adoration to His heart alone or His Wounds or even His face alone... This is the heresy
It does not refer to his heart as a separate individual, though, "Grant, good Jesus" shows that it is a prayer to Jesus. And there is no confusion being made among people either, I'm from a Catholic country, and not a single person thinks of the sacred heart as some individual of any kind, they are all very aware it is a prayer to Jesus Christ, so aware it is not even a question. You can raise other objections if you want, but that is a bad one.
Father bless! I think you got many good points and I am happy to hear about humility and how to be orthodox. This is what internet "orthodoxy" greatly misses. This said, I wanted to point out, that the story of the sacret heart includes a roman catholic nun (Margaret Mary Alacoque) that cut and burned her cheast and said that Christ switched her heart with His own. This is the origin of the sacret heart. I also think, that worshipping body parts of Christ is a bit concerning, because we have the living body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. I am not a fan of quoting Canons, because they are for the Bishops and not for Laypeople that treat them like protestants treat the Holy Bible, but ofcouse would it be interesting, to see this kind of Theology (Sacret Heart) from the view of the Council of Ephesus. Maybe you, another priest, or even your Bishop could make a video about this topic? Thank you so much again and may God continue to bless the works of your hands! With much love!
@wolvadora9049 The original devotion around the sacred heart goes back to the early medieval period (pre-1200). Alacoque's version of the devotion was much later (late 1600s), and wasn't accepted by the Vatican till the 1840s. Alacoque's version was also so different from the earlier devotion, that it was criticized by other Roman Catholics, such as Dietrich von Hildebrand in the 20th century, who wrote: “[Yet] devotion to the Sacred Heart is exposed to distortions and misinterpretations more than any other devotion. As Cardinal Newman said, every popular religion is in some way corrupted; and his words can be especially applied to the sublime devotion to the Sacred Heart. Many devotional pictures of the Sacred Heart and especially many hymns, in their words and their melodies, display a mawkish sentimentality, and portray the Sacred Heart not only stripped of supernatural mystery but, even from the natural point of view, as insipid and mediocre...”
@@b.d.4746 Thank you, Father! I think it would be very important for everyone to make this distinction clear. I think that "Sacret Heart" is easily misunderstood. Maybe you could do a small follow up video, where you could explain the difference between the Western Rite and the Roman Catholic understanding of it? Thank you again!
There is much good and sensible things in what he is saying, but there are some errors he is repeating, which I don't really hold against him because they are promulgated by many of the figures inquiters first read when learning about Orthodoxy. Particularly the influence of Metropolitan Kallistos Ware is obvious and his infamous slogan "we know where the Church is not where it isn't." If we look at Fr. Seraphim Rose, a disciple of St. John of Shanghai, who blessed and served the Western Rite, he was not shy either with pointing out what was demonic in western practices and also what was good (he wrote a lot about western saints and defended St. Augustine against the Boston school), and also what was perhaps we could say tolerable (such as western style russian icons for example). The key is to have discernment, obtained from direct contact with God and constant reading of the Fathers. The problem is many involved in this situation are just sort of going by their wants and desires rather than applying this criteria, which is difficult to do. I do think it is dangerous to say not evaluating heterodox practices is humility because while it is true that God isn't going to totally ignore people devoted to him and His Grace certainly is at work there, they do not have the Holy Mysteries, and the tradition they received has been corrupted, and the demons have swept in and put much in there. And the demons have no problem appearing as Mary and saints to Orthodox; how much more to heterodox! I am by no means qualified to judge any of this, but Fatima appears clearly demonic going by what I've seen about it. Whereas Guadalupe, it's much harder to say that since it was an apparition to pagans that ended their paganism and human sacrifices and gave them some kind of Christianity (and we were a long ways from given them Holy Orthodoxy anytime sooner). But the important point I think is that there is clear criteria and there are people qualified to discern these things, and the key is a holistic reading and embracing of the Fathers, rather than prooftexting them and using human logic to construct an argument to appeal to subconscious passions. Fr. Peter strikes me as a sincere and well meaning priest. I just think he's fallen for a few of the pop slogans many many converts fall for due to the popularity of Met. Kallistos' books. Met. Kallistos himself of course was well meaning especially at first but he seemed to become more and more deceived and naive as time went on unfortunately.
In the Catholic Church we differentiate between a private devotion or a public cult. When we pray the Sacred Heart of Jesus we are asking for his divine mercy from his sacrifice on calvary to cleanse us of sin and and remove attachments to the material world. At the end of the day you are honoring and worshipping God. It is an act of humility, submission, and love.
A profound sense of shame washes over me as I read the negative comments about this issue and the disrespectful way some people refer to the priest. These individuals should be ashamed of themselves, for their fanaticism knows no bounds and is a poison that corrodes the soul. God have mercy on them, for their words reflect the poverty of their spirit. Humility is the gateway to paradise, while pride leads to hell. The devil is cunning and disguises himself in piety and false humility, so we must be vigilant, brothers and sisters. We must remember that love and respect are fundamental pillars of our faith, and destructive criticism and lack of compassion only drive people away from God. It is crucial that, instead of fueling division and hatred, we focus on promoting unity and understanding, always remembering that true faith is expressed through charity and mercy.
Defending orthodox teaching isn't fanatism, it's part of our duty as Orthodox laymen. When the bishops came back from Florence after signing an heretical council the faithful didn't say "we have to obey these and be quiet " , they were extremely adamant on defending the true faith "We do not change the boundaries marked out by our Fathers. We keep the Tradition we have received. If we begin to lay down the Law of the Church even in the smallest things, the whole edifice will fall to the ground in no short time." St. John of Damascus
@@778FraxK we are defending the Orthodox teaching against hateful fanatics who reject a completely legitimate Orthodox liturgy and priest based on looks and feelings. "The priest doesn't have a beard he's not Orthodox", "he's wearing a catholic collar, he's not Orthodox" "western rite doesn't feel Orthodox" etc. We ARE defending the faith against those who are commiting the sin and heresy of cultural supremacy and superficial evaluation of looks.
Thank you, the Holy Spirit inspired you, the devil is very cunning and he don’t have no rest to deceive people to hell. Once again thank you for support me on this. God bless you.
I am a Roman Catholic and can't see the difference between this priest's and Rome's teachings. Can somebody help me understand please? (NB. I'm asking with no irony)
To clarify, he is not trying to incorporate heterodox doctrine into the Church. He is explaining the Church’s attitude toward things outside the Church. Sometimes the Church incorporates things into the Church from outside, though only with careful discernment. You see this with pagan elements being “baptized” in. Similarly, he’s explaining that, in principle, it may be possible to “baptize” certain non-Orthodox Christian elements and bring them into the Church, like the image of OL of Guadalupe. Watch the fuller length video, because he's not affirming Roman Catholic teaching. But he is making a call for Orthodox Christians to have humility, and reflect on what is Apostolic, and Orthodoxy. So this Priest being WR is very Orthodoxy in attitude, and is strictly against things not of the Church. God bless us both, and forgive us too. ❤️☦️✝️
Posted four hours ago and look at the avalanche of comments. Do some Bros sit at their screens all day waiting to pounce on WR posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do their mothers serve them lunch and dinner on trays? Have clean sheets and underwear at the ready? By reading this you know zero nothing about my take on the matter.
When he says that, we must understand the context of orthodoxy taking things from cultures in. But also he meant more in general idea of a description of the heart of Christ. Furthermore, he warns very much against these modern weird developments, but he speaks of devotion in a Orthodox way. Although then it would be more of a devotion of Jesus Christ, and sacred heart part of his compassion or kindness would be in the prayers possibly? So it would be more of a pure worship of Christ, and not his parts. But listen to what he says carefully "Is this good". Whole point is humility and strong discernment. It's a really good video if study it closely. If he got something wrong then forgive him, but sometimes it's important to keep an eye on the language.
Since we are using English, where does the Western Rite stand on some of my favourite saints like Thomas Becket, John Fisher and Thomas More. Are they validly baptised? Are they saints?
@@mariedolianitis5144For some reason these flat wafers are accepted. I think it is something that will be rejected by a council eventually. But that’s because the Antiochians have become very liberal and lax in too much, and that will change. It completely removes so much theology, having multiple hosts, no breaking of bread. Literally you are now not doing what the apostles wrote about with the liturgy.
Fr Truebenbach and Fr Peter. That’s now two priests that you have judged. But I’m sure that you know about God better than men who have devoted their entire lives and reputations to Him, right?
Re: Marian apparitions outside the Church--if it's not up to us to decide if they are real or not, shouldn't we default to assuming these are demonic until the Church decides otherwise? The intense devotion to the Blessed Virgin you mention is admirable in a way, yes, but can't it just as well be said to leave these people vulnerable to great acts of deception? Can you honestly say that the description of the events at Fatima sound like they are of God? I won't deny that people really saw something, but why on earth would we not challenge the source aggressively so as not to be deceived?
I think this priest may be ecuministic based on his views. I also feel as tho that he is putting on some sort of character for the video and isn’t being genuine. I could be wrong tho
how foreign for a muslim is alone: that God is Father and he have a Son. Now, you add that God become authentic human, and suddenly God have a heart?! - what does that supposed to mean? - was it not said that i must love god from the bottom of my heart? - and god does love me also with all his heart? think about my friends :)
I am confusion. If the point is to embrace American Heritage in Liturgical practices then shouldn't we be asking how the Roman Liturgy became a part of American Heritage? The concept of Western Rite liturgies is eastward of the Americas in origin and practice. This idea that just because it's called "Western" means everything West of Byzantium is particularly misleading. Christianity did not reach American for centuries after the Great Schism, and the Western Rite in America was popularized by Roman Catholicism. The celebrants of Western Rite liturgies would only find a semblance of relation by way of Roman Catholicism in America. The only exposure an American would have to the Western Rite is through Catholicism. To say the Western Rite is linked to American Heritage because America is in the West is ultimately misleading. An American who relates to Western Rite liturgies relates to Roman Catholic liturgies, not Orthodoxy. Perhaps if this was a sentiment being expressed to the Orthodox in the see of Rome it would make more sense, but America has never been Orthodox, and the only Western Rite practices that existed in America before Orthodox missionaries were Catholic. A more truthful way to explore this topic would be to say the Western Rite offers Catholic Americans some semblance of familiarity, rather than making is seem like everything Rome and West has forever been subject to the Western Rite. Since the conception of America the country has been Protestant. Nothing about the Western Rite has a grasp on American culture outside of Catholicism. A major contingent of American Christian culture was based on religious freedom apart from Catholicism and Anglicanism, thus the Western Rite. Many original immigrants came to America post reformation in order to express anti-Roman Catholic and anti-Anglican forms of Christianity. Protestantism is the American Heritage.
The Holy Fathers: Who are we to anathematize anyone? There wasn't even a schism, really. Haha, Arius, Eunomius, and the rest, come on over here, call Muhammad over here too, let's all go together under the banner of the sacred heart...
ruclips.net/video/fa6FPILcwg4/видео.htmlsi=ok51UKRBlBpK8QZ1 For those interested, this is a recording of Western Rite Vespers (from the Rule of St. Benedict) held at the Clergy Symposium at Antiochian Village in July 2024, with His Eminence Metropolitan SABA, His Grace Bishop JOHN (Abdalah), and His Grace Bishop THOMAS presiding.
“Even if by “heart” we should understand the Saviour’s love itself, still neither in the Old Testament nor in the New was there ever a custom to worship separately the love of God, or His wisdom, or His creative or providential power, or His sanctity. Fr Michael Pomazansky
@@vanfja The heart is only a symbol. It expresses the idea of God's love for us and also shows how humans should love one another and respond to God's love by giving us the model of Jesus. Also, you must not seperate the divine and human in Jesus, though they are distinct. That's orthodox Christian theology as defined by the Chalcedonian council. The problem is the Eastern Orthodox Church feels that all images must fit according to the standards of Greek iconography.
@@vanfja What about the Gospel of John? Is it part of your Tradition and your meditation? Secondly, remembering or focusing on Christ's love doesn't make it a separate devotion, because God's love in Christ includes every grace.
As an Othodox Christian married to a practicing Faithful Roman Catholic wife, I resognate with this priest. Its a really tough subject to cover but he did a very good job. All in all i love my faith as orthodox but i agree that there are gems in other religions.
Me invade una profunda vergüenza ajena al leer los comentarios negativos que se vierten sobre este tema y la manera despectiva en la que algunos se refieren al sacerdote. Deberían darles vergüenza a esas personas, pues su fanatismo no conoce límites y es un veneno que corroe el alma. Dios tenga piedad de ellas, porque sus palabras reflejan la pobreza de su espíritu. La humildad es la puerta del paraíso, mientras que la soberbia conduce al infierno. El demonio es astuto y se disfraza de piedad y falsa humildad, por eso debemos estar alerta, hermanos. Debemos recordar que el amor y el respeto son pilares fundamentales de nuestra fe, y que la crítica destructiva y la falta de compasión solo alejan a las personas de Dios. Es crucial que, en lugar de alimentar la división y el odio, nos concentremos en promover la unidad y la comprensión, siempre recordando que la verdadera fe se expresa a través de la caridad y la misericordia. (Versión en español)
The “orthodox” don’t understand that meditating on an aspect of Christ doesn’t mean worshipping a part of him as it were schizophrenic. Sacred Heart devotion means meditating on Christ’s love for humanity on the cross and it is tide to the devotion of the 5 wounds and Sacred Blood of Jesus. Catholics aren’t worshipping aspects or body parts of Christ’s, but by meditating on the life and sacrifice of Jesus Christ we are recognizing him as God incarnate and thus worshiping God.
Online orthodoxy is terrible. I think most of the commenters that spend most of their times on Internet forums would be surprised how utterly common this sort of discourse is in Orthodoxy. Most priests sound like this. I’d say it’s a 50/50 split. There’s a reason Orthodoxy flirts with Universalism more than other sects.
@@ascender144k I swear if the schism between RC and EO were ever healed it would cause another schism. All the prideful arrogant orthobros would call themselves The Official Genuine Ultra Orthodox Church. They will claim to be the ONLY ones with salvation and Anathematise everyone else. Why, because if the schism were healed they won't get to feel superior
For that which is co-worshipped with other is altogether other than that with which it is co-worshipped. But we are accustomed to worship Emmanuel with one worship, not severing from the Word the Body That was Personally united to Him. Saint Cyril of Alexandria. No you cannot be Orthodox and have a devotion to a body part. Even if it is just a symbol of love, it is still a devotion to a part, not the whole of Christ.
@@vanfja I believe Jesus literally said otherwise tho... Jesus said to a nun, devote yourselves to the heart which so loves men it has consumed itself to testify of its love
The tradition of our Saints, as well as beloved Orthodox theologians, is full of radical points of view, such as universalism and sophiology. Those objecting to this priest should reconsider. Especially if you are American (like me), you probably lack an appreciation of the breadth of Orthodox perspectives and practices.
@@evans3922hes Orthodox according the all of the jurrisdictions that accept the sacrements of the Western Rite as valid, which is all of them. Take it up with Metropolitan Nicholas and Metropolitan Saba. One of them is this Priesrs Bishop.
The Eucharist is the Whole Body, Blood, Soul, & Divinity of Jesus Christ. The Sacred Heart is a symbol of The Eucharist; The Flesh of Christ, The Blood of Christ, The Love of Christ. ❤️🔥
And Bishops. They like to look more protestant for some reason, embarrassed by their Orthodox traditions. You can travel to France and Italy and see many Catholic clerics wearing a cassock, but in America we like to look like Protestants
It's good that you're talking about this topic, because some Orthodox Christians have a certain prejudice and don't understand this devotion to the Sacred Heart. I am an Orthodox Christian who comes from the Roman Catholic tradition, and I understand that the focus of this devotion is to seek the mercy of Jesus in order to heal, that is, to seek to become a better person day by day. It's a shame that certain groups of Orthodox Christians with prejudice and without any prior research have violently opposed this devotion. Remember that religious fundamentalism is a sin of pride and because of pride Satan was expelled from Heaven. Watch out for that.
"Religious fundamentalism" reads like an ecumenist dog whistle against traditionalists. Is following the Church dogma and the teachings of the Church Fathers fundamentalism? Were they fundamentalist when they fought against heresies to preserve the true faith?
For that which is co-worshipped with other is altogether other than that with which it is co-worshipped. But we are accustomed to worship Emmanuel with one worship, not severing from the Word the Body That was Personally united to Him.-St Cyril.
Watch until 19:58 until the end. Listen to his words carefully, because this Priest is a very humble person, and is calling for Orthodox Christians to remember what Orthodoxy is all about, and what Jesus Christ always taught to remember. So when he says 'left behind etc etc' he's saying to just forget all that for a minute, Nd take a moment to remind ourselves of what Christianity is about (Orthodoxy is Christianity).
Watch the FULL video here: “The Honest Truth About the Western Rite.”
ruclips.net/video/iAB1wqAyo2E/видео.htmlsi=iELwL6PaD97E-I_N
Unseen Warfare was indeed written in the West, but there’s a reason both St. Theophan the Recluse and St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite both heavily edited it. It’s misleading to say monks on Mt. Athos simply “embraced and spread the mystic teachings of Roman Catholics.”
Heavily edited is an understatement, they basically re wrote it.
They can't be honest sadly.
The devout monk Lorenzo Scupoli is credited by these Athonite Saints while they also adjusted what needed to align more with the fullness of Orthodoxy. The irony is lost on you considering Fr. Peter is saying the same thing: a post schism practice isn’t inherently heretical and can be adapted to fully embody Orthodox dogma. Please reconsider how deeply polemical and prejudiced you sound *East good West bad*… it’s all so tiresome.
@@Handmaiden_Daphne it actually wasn't originally credited to Scopuli when first circulated in the east because it was so heavily rewritten, and to get people to read it at all. Read the intro to the SVS published edition of Unseen Warfare. The west went into schism for a reason and to claim any concerns are "hurr durr west bad east good" is gross ignorance of the fathers and the spiritual practices that remain in line with the deposit of faith vs the prelest factory of post schism western "mystical contemplative" practices.
Saint Nicodemus the Hagiorite read a book from a Heterodox, liked it and decide to adapt and transfigure it. Saint Theophan completed the work
The sacred heart goes against the council of ephesus. It forbids worship of parts of Christ
This rejection must be purposefully dull.
No, it doesn't. Or can you give the exact quote from Ephesus, that supposedly says so?
@@the4gospelscommentary Yes, that’s how history and time works. Men from the 400s made a quote just for you to feel better about a devotion you can’t/won’t understand.
The Ephesus quote you’re referencing is a Nestorian rejection saying we can’t separate Jesus by his natures.
The reverence of the Sacred Heart isn’t Nestorian. Any child known the phrase “our heart” refers to our body AND our seat of emotion/self.
For you* to claim the Sacred Heart is Nestorian, it’s requires that *you make a Nestorian argument that separates Jesus’s heart (in symbol or in fact) from the rest of His being.
I’ll then ask you about your reverence for the Precious Blood of Christ.
@@MrTzarBomb What? I was responding to @smiles6544
@@the4gospelscommentary oh…
I'm not a member of the Orthodox Church (yet), but as someone from a different culture, I understand that it is me that has to strive to adapt to the tradition and practices of the Church, not the other way around. I must change and learn, to hopefully be adopted and then preserve the tradition.
The Orthodox church has over 2000 years history. How old are you? 😊 So yes, it makes sense.
Sacred Heart devotion is weird and creepy, our saints warn us about it.
It's heretic
Pardon, that is the most blasphemous thing I have ever heard about the sacred heart of Jesus.
How is acknowledging that Jesus loved us with a real human heart creepy?
God doesn’t just love us in an indescribable way, but in a human way beyond even the love our earthly parents could.
I’m curious, how? And which Saints?
@@jayleenv.7975 St Cyril of Alexandria is the primary source here. There isn't enough space to properly give this subject the attention it deserves. There is an excellent article on patristic faith titled an Orthodox analysis of Sacred Heart Worship that should be read. It goes in-depth on the semi-Nestorian Christology presupposed in the RC position.
Sacred Heart is not Orthodox.
@@OrthodoxBird777 we found an Orthobro
@@samr.i.9485the weakest argument. Tomorrow you are going to say he is spreading russian propaganda.
A few things i noticed that make me doubt the intentions of the speaker:
. to say that "To be Orthodox does not mean to be Eastern" is nonsensical and arbitrary at best. as Orthodox Theology did not developed in a vacuum. This is a text book move of semantic ambiguity done in order to re-frame and redirect the meaning of words.
. That anything can be baptized doesn’t mean everything can or should be baptized.
. To claim that the western church that the saints embraced is the same as the post Vatican 2 western church we deal with today is kinda naive.
. The constant remark of - “Who am I to say?” - feels like emotional blackmailing. similar to "who am I to say this man is not a woman?"
. We can not say when something is wrong? That seems to be what councils are doing when rejecting heresies.
. He dictates the Criteria by which to evaluate the sacred heart at the same time he says who are we to say? - contradiction.
. What is beautiful - cant be the only criteria for embracing something.
. The asymmetry between the poetic emotional weight of his delivery and the lack of validity of his arguments.
Well put, thank you. I wouldn't be able to say it that way. ❤
@@Maria-g1o3z ❤☦
“Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must be Eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years, and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies.”
+ Saint John Maximovich
@@matheusmotta1132 Considering the Fact that I, the author of the original comment, am Mexican of Birth, you can say i understand what St John Maximovich points out. But i find, the attempt of divorcing Orthodox Theology from the Historical Contexts of its origins and developments futile, given for example the fact that Christianity is essentially a Middle Eastern Religion.
"Who am I to say" My catholic friends helped lead me to orthodoxy, and I know well in their hearts they love God with all their hearts. Your response is so uncharitable and a clear strawman when modern sexual issues which are completely unrelated. Although the Holy Spirit led me without a doubt to orthodoxy, "who am I to say" applies to where God leads each individual. I am a lay man, and although he is a priest, even he knows that God has a plan for each of us. Please do not harden your heart, you listened defensively, with no charity.
It’s my understanding that sacred heart worship has its origins in Frankish body division practices that popes have condemned.
***Antioch Western Rite just removed Sacred Heart.
Best book on the topic is Charbonneau Lassay’s “Vulnerary of Christ”. Shows how the devotion to the Sacred Heart developed out of the iconography and devotions of the early church. Pretty surprising reading actually
@@johnjoyce8518 Interesting; Thank you for the recommendation.
@@kingattila506 no problem
One should be careful with books.
ruclips.net/video/pCPNh6wmyRU/видео.htmlsi=Td-4F0tzp6sF6Qqe
@@johnjoyce8518He was RC not Orthodox, So it’s just more confused justifications of heresy. No need to read such nonsense.
YALL ARE NOT GETTING IT!!. Father is saying there is beauty in other christian denominations but we have to stand firm in our Orthodox beliefs and guide them back to the truth. the sacred heart was an example! he was not declaring it to be right and correct. Good lord! You RUclips/Instagram othodox people need to go to Church!
Also i looked up the parish this priest is over and it's my understanding that it is being shared with a Catholic church. Which makes sense since Wichita Falls is a tiny little town. I was stationed there for training year 10 years ago. Everyone should just calm down and talk to your priest before making an ignorant comment. Lord Have Mercy!
What he says in the video is that currently there are discussions on the antiochian WR to determine the validity of these practices. Is specially in these kinds of situations that's important to be vocal and defend what's orthodox...
@@778FraxK and i agree with you but at the same time you can’t treat people poorly and dismiss someone just bc they miss the mark according to our standards.
True, I personally didn't find any offensive comments against the priest, only people criticizing the sacred heart and the defense of it's practice. At most people are saying that he is too ecumenical. That's not really an offense
We get it. And it is off. He goes well beyond recognizing the beauty of other expressions.
@@SVFRacing117 that’s honestly your opinion however wrong it may be.
Sacred Heart goes directly against the Council of Ephesus.
How is that?
Weird devotion created through a prelest vision by a nun seeking to stroke her own ego. Orthodox Christians should have nothing to do with the "sacred" heart.
@@ismailaeyoussefthe council forbids worshipping parts of Christ
Does that include the reverence we give to the body and blood@@Ephesians6twelve
@@Ephesians6twelve The sacred heart devotion (in its original form at the very least, centuries before Alacoque) doesn't involve directing worship at a disconnected "piece" of Christ. It is just a devotion meditating on his love for mankind.
Roots of Eastern Catholicism
I’m glad y’all did these videos on the WR but I honestly think they’ve probably damaged the perception of the WR than helped and it shows the valid problems that many people have with the Western Rite.
Yeah this was like the worst example they could have shown Ss. Tikhon and John would in no way condone this gross ecumenism on display here with foreign spiritual practices.
They want a western right fine. We dedicate every WR parish to a hesychast saint so their prayers can keep this insane prelest in check. Deal. No deal that can go become papists and anglicans. This is pure insanity.
“It is better that scandals arise, than the truth be suppressed” - St. Gregory the Great
The only thing this has done is reveal a major problem in our Church, and it isn’t the WR.
@@aterrt8523 Why is the Western Rite using post-schism devotions and an Anglican liturgy?
True, I was a supporter of WR before I heard this Priest. Wow I just don’t understand why he wants to support so much non orthodox innovations.
I am personally a big supporter the WR, and embrace it with open arms! It certainly has potential for evangelization in the west. Though, respectfully, I have to disagree with the sacred heart devotion. Just to briefly mention its horrific origin story, it comes from Mary Margaret, a Catholic nun in prelest who stripped naked from her habit and used a knife to carve into her chest the name of Jesus. Then wrote a message in her cell with her own blood calling herself a great disciple. The main problem, however, is that the sacred heart divides the worship in Christ. Orthodoxy teaches explicitly that because Christ is one, the worship we give to Him must be singular. We cannot worship His divine nature one moment, and His human nature another, let alone in parts. It is textbook Nestorianism. I was also a former Roman Catholic before I converted so I understand the attachment, but it must be let go. It is uneeded and confuses the simplicity of our worship. There's also no reason why you can't have devotions to the sacred foot, the sacred tongue, or the sacred lungs, the sacred whatever because it's arbitrary. Was not Christ's entire human nature made holy?
I love the Western Rite, but this is one area where it falls short. One is better off with the Pantocrator icon.
I agree and am not a fan of SH, but research it again, it doesn’t come from her. The way it has been practiced and popularized in Roman Catholicism, yes, but it didn’t start with her.
@@aterrt8523There were many “visions” of hearts over the centuries, pierced hearts, glowing hearts. They all seemed to come from visions. So a central demonic apparition weather it was one Mary, another Mary, some medieval mystic. And before that the idea was devotion to the wounds on Jesus. All this is an emotionalism and devotion to the human nature instead of all of Christ. It’s all a strange sensual emotionalism which has no place on the Church.
I dont really see the reason to flirt with the practices of heretics and schismatics. It's not quite the same as "baptizing" pagan practices that reflect some truth and beauty regarding Christ. They from come from people and traditions that have actively rejected the Truth of Christ. And it also goes against the concept which Fr Peter seems to champion of the unaltered nature of the Liturgy of St Gregory. If you are trying to add post schism practices and feasts to the Ancient Orthodox worship, you have departed from that unaltered Orthodox worship that he seems to love. I have no problem with the Liturgy of St Gregory nor with Gregorian chants. I think he fairly points out that those practices are in fact Orthodox. But when you add the vestment styles of heretics, the practices and feasts of heretics, it is something beyond what Western Orthodoxy was and could still be today. And I really don't get it with the flat wafers. I don't care if they are technically leavened when you go out of the way to then make it look unleavened. Thats a huge red flag for me personally i just cant wrap my head around that bizzare and unheard of practice....
Edit: Please forgive me, I am not trying to condemn Fr Peter or any Western Rite brothers and sisters, just sharing my heartfelt concerns I would have with this approach to it
@UnworthySeraphim I do think the potential for "baptizing" elements from heterodox confessions is much, much greater than from pagan cultures. Most heterodox Christians did not make any active choice against Orthodoxy. Most of them have never even heard of it. These were people with genuine piety and faith in Christ. They may have some false beliefs, and may be out of communion with the whole Church, but that's more an accident of history and geography than an obstinate promotion of heresy. Accordingly, we at least need to ask ourselves -- as Fr Peter encourages us -- what developed in those cultures that was good and true and beautiful? Some of it is false or ugly or harmful. But certainly not everything.
Everyone loves "Hark! the Herald Angel Sing," right? That's a perfectly Orthodox hymn. It's a beautiful hymn. It's definitely not pre-schism. It wasn't even written by a member of an apostolic church - it was a Protestant! But if we can baptize Plato, we can surely "chrismate" Wesley (if you will).
I tried pointing this out and was called a Pharisee. Unreasonable.
I think the aproch we ahould do is looking in to the first 1000 years of the church, and build the Western Rite according to the Orthodoxy that was in the west
I like the idea to rebuild the old Gregorian liturgies, but we must follow the way of the first millenia and folow the Athority of the Ecumenical counsals.
No this was a crappy, unchristian take. Great example you make.
There is only one Universal Church. Christ gave the keys to the Kingdom to One Apostle. This is probably why “Orthodox” schismatic Churches aren’t even in Union with each other and is dying out.
Sounds way too ecumenistic for me. That collar doesn't help too. Besides the false humility (prelest) question "Who am I to say that's not God's working" goes both ways - "Who am I to affirm that's God's working and not a demonic apparition posing as Mary/an angel or Christ?" We've been warned by the Church not to trust our senses and apparitions especially coming from outside of the Church.
U are right just a slight correction... This sounds ecumenistic, not ecumenical... I
@@evans3922 yes, thanks for the correction.
what's wrong with that white collar?
@@XD_..it’s a Roman collar. It gives the impression the priest is a Roman Catholic as opposed to an Orthodox priest.
The negative comments made by some Orthodox Christians strongly remind me of the rhetoric of Puritan Protestantism disguised as Christian orthodoxy. It seems they forget compassion and love, the hallmarks of any Christian, in their zeal to defend the truth. Their words carry a rigidity, a desire to impose their interpretation of faith, that echoes the fundamentalist Protestant movements that scorn everything that doesn't fit within their rigid doctrinal framework. It is a shame, because many converts to Orthodoxy from fundamentalist Protestantism have yet to leave behind that baggage of prejudice and inflexibility, which only tarnishes the beauty and richness of the Orthodox tradition. Orthodoxy should be a beacon of light and hope, a space for encounter and dialogue, where mercy and comprehension prevail over criticism and judgment. It's crucial to remember that the Christian faith isn't founded on the imposition of dogma but on love, compassion, and the continuous pursuit of truth.
There are good reasons why none of the Orthodox saints have promoted a Western Rite or the use of post-Schism Roman Catholic practices and beliefs. We need to follow the discernment of the saints and councils and not just address these things sentimentally by asking “who are we to judge?” St. John of SF allowed a group in France to use a Western Rite but he came to regret it and that group apostatized. Aside from that one strange group, St. John of SF did not encourage Fr. Seraphim Rose or any of his priests or spiritual children in the West to use or promote a Western Rite. St. Tikhon had the Anglican rite reviewed in Russia to provide advice on how the rite would need to be modified to be more Orthodox but that is not the same as endorsing a Western Rite for use in Orthodox churches in the West. This effort by St. Tikhon was in the early 20th century in the context of possibly receiving the Anglicans into the Orthodox Church en masse, which did not transpire and is not applicable to current times.
In Russia where iconography and chant was influenced by post-Schism Roman Catholicism, among other saints, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov spoke against this corruption of Orthodox chanting and St. John of SF (whose memory is misused as supposedly blessing the WR), spoke against Westernized iconography. Orthodox saints have also condemned the use of unleavened bread and other such practices. To sentimentally ask “who are we to judge” while Orthodox saints with spiritual discernment have indeed evaluated and judged these things is deceptive and delusional.
Look at the contemporary Orthodox saints who came to the West to help establish authentic Orthodox tradition, especially Elder Ephraim of Arizona and St. Sophrony of Essex. They neither used nor promoted a Western Rite while living among and serving people in the West for decades. Some people have been trying to promote a WR within the Orthodox Church for a long time but there is little spiritual fruit that has resulted. No mass conversions have taken place while the WR remains full of controversy over disagreements on what should be permitted and what should be excluded. To suggest St. John of SF or St. Tikhon would be accepting of post-Schism innovations is extremely ignorant and disrespectful to their blessed memories. It is best to use the rites that have been handed down for centuries within the Orthodox Church and which the saints up to the present time have both used and promoted.
God bless you 🙏
I’m Orthodox, Eastern rite, happily so. I have no “devotion” to the sacred heart. However, I grew up in a gnostic and immoral home. As a teenager I received a funeral card in the mail from my far-away Catholic grandmother’s funeral. The image on the front was Jesus pointing to His heart, and at that point, it was the only gospel I knew that actually connected. That image tugged at me over years and years, beckoning me to the love of Jesus. It is a powerful image with a major influence in leading me home to the Orthodox Church.
Notwithstanding all the judgmental ideologues in this comment section.
Your personal experience has no bearing on the question at hand. I was drawn to Orthodoxy through reading Plato so what, Christians should accept the teachings of Plato now? The sacred heart doctrine has been condemned by the Church - were the fathers at the ecumenical council "judgmental ideologues" too? You're treading dangerous waters with such pronunciations.
@@0live0wire0lol what ecumenical council condemned the sacred heart devotion
@@johnjoyce8518 Sacred Heart is a Nestorian heresy introduced by franks and jesuits and violates Ephesus’ dogma that after the Union there is only one worship and adoration given to the whole incarnate Christ. It’s an ancient pagan Frankish practice called heart worship / heart burial.
All of the Piety signaling is proof western rite attracts people who don't truly want to give up heretical latin theology.@@0live0wire0
Few fundamentalist converts ever truly convert they just redirect their scholastic anathema. Which is one of the reasons I so often consider heading to Rome as the Orthodox Church in America is plagued by this and it’s becoming a serious blight. I swear they would have all been iconoclasts lol.
I have sacred heart stuff because my Catholic friends gave it to me. Who cares. This is not an issue.
Well, as a former roman catholic the adoration of the blessed Sacrament always felt like a lot to me... We were gathered not only on Sundays and feast days but also almost everyday celebrating the Eucharist which already involves adorating Jesus, and most importantly, consuming his immaculate body and his most precious blood, so, when learning about Orthodoxy teaching on the Holy Misteries it made so much sense to me what I had been thinking way back, Christ offers himself as food, as the bread of life, therefore meant to be eaten, not carried around or exposed only for verenetion, because, when we consume Him we give him the right veneration and adoration, no need to put him inside a beautiful reliquary and change the whole purpose of Him staying with us in the Eucharist.
The WR is Orthodox, however this interview is concerning.
Rationalism, over sentimentality, imaginative meditation are the elements that have led Roman Catholic Church theology to its heretic innovations including all these devotions like Sacred heart and others... Unfortunately Western riters can't discern these Latin elements influence that's why they insist on these devotions... Unfortunately the influence is very much deeper altering the true Orthodox fronema. It's really noticeable that there was not even a word about Jesus prayer, Theotokos was not even once naned only Virgin Mary... Whether they like it or not the Western rite after 1000 years of non Orthodox development is theologically poor on the contrary it has been much much influenced by Latin Roman Catholicism mindset...
Regarding liturgics the use of these flatened hostias even leavened as they claim to be are far away from the Orthodox liturgics.. As we know in Eastern rite Byzantine Proskomedia the priest extracts from the prosforo the Lamb aka the piece of bread which will become the Holy Body of Christ, then he extracts
the portion of Theotokos, the portion of the orders of the angels and saints then the portions small crumbles for the living and the portions of the dead commemorating the names guven to him... All these portions are together with the Lamb on the Disc of the Eucharist. The whole Church together with Christ in rhe middle...
After the Holy Communion the priest throws all these portions of the living and the dead into the Chalice saying:wash off O Lord the sins of your hereby commemorated servants with your Precious Blood.
This is the ultimate help the Orthodox Church can offer to the souls of living but mainly to the souls of the deceased faithfuls.
This practice doesn't exist in Western rite with the many hostias... There are no portions for the living and dead because there isn't a main prosforo to extract the crumbles...there are individual hostias just to be given at the Communion..This a serious deviation from the Orthodox practice... It resembles the Roman Catholic practice... How do the Western riters help the souls of the living and dead? A serious liturgical deviation among others.
I think you've missed his point. Watch the full longer length video, and study his points. It's actually a very good video, and this Priest is both teaching and acting in humility.
To clarify, he is not trying to incorporate heterodox doctrine into the Church. He is explaining the Church’s attitude toward things outside the Church. Sometimes the Church incorporates things into the Church from outside, though only with careful discernment. You see this with pagan elements being “baptized” in. Similarly, he’s explaining that, in principle, it may be possible to “baptize” certain non-Orthodox Christian elements and bring them into the Church, like the image of OL of Guadalupe.
(I am sure he's wrong about some stuff, but that priest has a very Orthodox attitude.)
This practice of flat wafers is just another innovation which came from the Franks. It was easier to store them for a long time before use. But it completely removes the concept of Breaking Bread which the apostles constantly talk about. Breaking bread is the Eucharist. From one Body of Christ, we all partake in it and become one with Christ and the Church. Having multiple, removes this, just taking the words breaking break completely out of the church. It makes no sense and is definitely something that will be addressed if WR grows out of the ultra niche thing it is now.
Roots of orthodoxy....are u ok???
I don’t know that I feel comfortable calling them out. I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt, he interviews many different priests for THEIR opinions.
@@r4ngerr4ge32 maybe
@r4ngerr4ge32 Yeah, but they were Orthodox priests. I mean I disagreed with some of them but they were clearly Orthodox. I'm not sure about this priest.
@@sfappetrupavelandrei the Western Rite is a sanctioned project by a canonical orthodox Jurisdiction. We are not currently in a position to say wether or not the WR is heretical at its foundations, right now we’re still in the process of seeing wether of not it is feasible, speaking long-term.
I am certainly suspect of Western Rite, I came to orthodoxy because it withstood western influence, after all. But, I’d be remiss to just hand-wave the whole rite away merely off of being reactionary. The heart of the matter is wether or not the western rite will be driven by people trying to deliver true and illumined orthodoxy, or if it will be a vehicle for scholastics and western fetishists to try to bring their influences into the Church.
@@sfappetrupavelandrei He is a canonical Orthodox priest.
I am in great need of help. My (earthly) mother is a Christian, but she ONLY believes in the 4 gospels. So all of the Old Testament and the rest of the New Testament is not something that she believes. I just find it very troubling and I said to her: “ Without the prophecies of the Old Testament, the people would not be able to see him as the Messiah.” Please help me. God bless 🙏
How does your mother believe the Earth was made?
@@PomazeBog1389 she doesnt believe in Genesis, so she believes in that the world was created by rocks in space clumping together through gravity and getting bigger and bigger.
Ask her who made the Gospels canon. Who preserved and translated them. It was the Church that Christ founded. Ask her how the early church functioned without the written Gospels and no gospel of John.
Wait, what does she think of Matthew 5:17-18? This is a very peculiar case.
Bit remember, it's God who calls us to Him. Who opens the eyes of the mind. So ask Him to reveal Himself to your mother, we have the powerful arm of the prayer 🙏 God bless❤☦️
I get the baptizing what is good and true concept, but does that entail resurrecting a dead rite for the aesthetics? Still on the fence about WR.
Anything that is truly, TRULY Beautiful and good is of God. And His mercy knows no bounds.
Thank you for the video Father, God Bless☦️
We need a total and complete shutdown of the WR until we figure out what the heck is going on
lol as if that could ever happen with your disunited loose confederation of a church
A wise priest once said: “The phenomenon of all this hate and anger and bickering-it’s in non-reality. It happens when we’re not taking time to listen and look at a person face to face. We sit on our little computers and we criticize one other, and we’re tearing apart the Church. Our witness has to be love.”
…It was Fr Peter Kavanaugh. In this video…
Ah! Got ‘em! That’s actually beautiful.
So he is trying to guilt people into Not saying anything. Well the saints defended the Church against heresy. The idea that we must love every idea and be tolerant towards it all sounds like Pope Francis . There was love for the truth in the Saints and they still had love for the souls who were confused and spreading heresy. Maybe everyone here bickering will not accomplish much. But eventually the Church will address these things and truth will prevail.
It seems like, forgive me, this priest is trying to incorporate Roman Catholic teachings themselves into the Church.
I love the Tridentine Mass, but that's about all I think could be celebrated from the West so far as it is reviewed and slightly adjusted to be Orthodox. Meaning its pre-Schism, Gregorian form.
I'm not comfortable with the Catholic practices he's teaching about.
To clarify, he is not trying to incorporate heterodox doctrine into the Church. He is explaining the Church’s attitude toward things outside the Church. Sometimes the Church incorporates things into the Church from outside, though only with careful discernment. You see this with pagan elements being “baptized” in. Similarly, he’s explaining that, in principle, it may be possible to “baptize” certain non-Orthodox Christian elements and bring them into the Church, like the image of OL of Guadalupe.
Why would anyone who read Holy Fathers be comfortable with such huge disrespect we witnessed?
@@b.d.4746 He is sneaky by trying to mask introducing heterodox things with “explaining the Church’s views” This keeps happening time and time again with ecumenists and even pope Francis. He just said “the sacred heart is very orthodox”. Such Christological aspects were never baptized from non Orthodox faiths. It seems to me he is having trouble letting go of some of his heterodox devotions. And these apparitions he talks about are not accepted by the church because they can be very dangerous demonic tricks.
As an Othodox Christian married to a practicing Faithful Roman Catholic wife, I resognate with this priest. Its a really tough subject to cover but he did a very good job
He says "we have to use the criteria: is this good true and beautiful" this is not the Orthodox apostolic criteria, our criteria is following " what always was believed everywhere, always, by all" - quoting a western saint Vincent of Lerins
This logic of analyzing and concluding x practice is ok because I find it ok is not following the Orthodox criteria.
To those saying "this isn't humble", our duty as Orthodox Christians, laymen included, is to defend the apostolic faith, not innovations.
"We do not change the boundaries marked out by our Fathers. We keep the Tradition we have received. If we begin to lay down the Law of the Church even in the smallest things, the whole edifice will fall to the ground in no short time."
-St. John of Damascus
Golden words... This is the Orthodox fronema.
""our criteria is following " what always was believed everywhere, always, by all" " Your beliefs are subjective and can be misconstrued or misunderstood. So how would you prove to me that what you believe is actually truer or more reliable than what any other faith claims? Thank you.
That's exactly my point. Are you Orthodox? The Church's criteria is following the apostolic faith and not deviating from it
It's not difficult to prove this, read any council or synod, it's stated that thats the criteria. If you are Orthorox you should have heard of it
Thank you for this! St Vincent’s words hold true to the Church fathers. All this “Good and beautiful” is nonsense. Now a-days anything can be deemed good and beautiful. The demons like to make beautiful things to entice us.
Thanks for the video, looking forward to watching.
Three points of Fr. Peter from this video:
1 - If Pagan practices can reflect some truth and beauty regarding Christ and be transfigured by the Church, why Heterodox practices can't? The Heterodox are much closer to Holy Orthodoxy than Pagans;
2 - Not every Post-Schism practices are necessarily anti-Orthodox;
3 - The Holy Spirit acts outside of the Church. John 3:8 - The Spirit blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don’t know where it comes from and where it is going.
Something seems off about the WR. I’m not questioning its validity.. it’s just that something feels weird about it. It’s almost like they are LARPing as Catholics or something. Idk.
I get the same feeling. If you visit some ancient churches in Rome, Spain, Germany, UK, you are surprised how similar they are to Eastern Orthodox churches. I don’t know why most WR parishes have to keep so much protestant and RC baggage. I think there are some WR who do go back to real western Orthodoxy, but too many are just trying to keep their heterodox baggage and mindset.
Byzantine influenced by Islam?
You got that backwards Father. Unless I missed your point altogether?
What do you know, a priest that spent years discerning his profession and learning about the faith gives an explanation and a bunch of former fundamentalist converts damn him to hell. 😂
Convertitis
If the laity just accepted what priests and bishops said since they have experience, we would have fallen into arianism and iconoclasm, as the majority of clergy in the Church hold to those (specially in the east for iconoclasm)
Defending orthodoxy isn't condemning people to hell, it's actually not being relativistic and wanting people to not go to hell.
We shouldn't agree with something when it's wrong, did you see what the laity did when the bishops signed the false council of Florence? It is also the role of the laity to speak when we hear heresy.
@@778FraxK 🤦♀️ Right over your head.
@@778FraxKWell said. The people also rebelled against the renovationists during the Russian revolution and many other times. The problem is that people in the west value years of study, education ect. Some of the strongest opponents to heresy were simple monks with no education.
There are a lot of priests and even bishops these days saying all sorts of nonsense. There always were. We respect a priest for his honor of ordination, as a pastor to us, but when heresy is being “explored” in a sneaky way, just as Bshp. Kollistos Ware liked to do, it is perfectly valid for all Orthodox Christians to stand against.
The Church's criterion has never been: "Is it pre- or post-schism?"
The Church's criterion has always been: "Is it true, good, and beautiful?"
If the answer's Yes, then it belongs to the Church. "Plunder the Egyptians"
False. The criterion is that it needs to be accepted by an ecumenical Synod. Because neither you nor I have the discernment to proclaim what is Godly and what is illusion
@@dougoudvincent I didn’t mean you or I should privately decide what’s true or good or beautiful. I mean that when the Church comes together, whether in local or ecumenical synods, its criteria is-and always has been-whether something is true and good and beautiful.
In the case of the WR, that’s what the Church has done with many things already, and continues to discern with others.
Sacred heart devotion is not good or true or beautiful. So many of these practices just needlessly muddle the waters
There is no reason to plunder heterodoxy
@@joshf2218 The Church disagrees with you re: plundering the Egyptians, even if those Egyptians turn out to be heterodox Christians. The example of “Unseen Warfare” is one; St Nicholas Kabasilas borrowing theological arguments from Anselm of Canterbury would be another; the fact that many Eastern Orthodox Christians sing Christmas carols written by Protestants (outside the liturgy itself) would be yet another.
In every case, the Church is careful to excise and purify anything not Orthodox in them. There’s often adaptation and editing. Like St Basil says, we need to “be the bee,” and distinguish the good from the bad. But the Church is also not afraid to appropriate into her own life what’s true, good, and beautiful from outside of it. Not afraid at all. This isn’t watering down the faith. This isn’t a concession of an embarrassment. This is the glory of our faith. We triumphalistically grab whatever’s true, good, and beautiful from outside the Church and say “This is ours now.” It doesn’t really belong to them. It belongs to us. This is how the Church has always operated.
That’s the principle at least, which I don’t think is disputable. You can certainly discuss and debate specific examples, like whether there’s any room for some form of the sacred heart devotion. There, Fr Peter prudently doesn’t say the Church should simply rubber stamp the sacred heart devotion. He suggests that, if you look at that devotion historically, there are elements that go back very far into the first millennium, and these should be sifted from later developments that include problematic elements. And so, perhaps for Christians attracted to that devotion, there would be a place for that in the Orthodox Church in some form, stripped of later problematic elements. But this takes research, discussion, and discernment from the Church (and that means real, serious investigation and discernment, not RUclips comment sections, where people emotionally lash out at a priest for suggesting that something good could come out of the West!).
As a RC, I view this Western Rite with curiosity. I have no skin in the game when it comes to adoption of it in the greater Orthodox Churches, but I will say one thing, the Orthodox Church is good at being Orthodox/Eastern/Byzantine and when you are good, at something you should stick to it. The Orthodox Churches differ from the Catholic Church in that they don't have many different rites or traditions like the Catholic Church does with its Western and Eastern Rites that are in full communion with each other, and I don't truly see a parallel in this Western Rite in Orthodoxy. What I notice is that it is attempting to reconstruct a rite that is foreign to it, at best reviving an ancient Rite that was once accepted by the one Church, east and west unanimously, pre-schism, along with the other Rites.
Sometimes people accuse Orthodox of worshiping Mary or icons because they see the outward forms of our practice and refuse to hear us when we explain to them the true meaning.
Seems like that is what is happening here.
look :The earliest known hymn to the sacred heart is titled “Heart of Christ My King, I Greet Thee”
An example of a sacred heart prayer for the sake of illustration goes as follows:
O most holy Heart of Jesus, fountain of every blessing, I adore You, I love You, and with a lively sorrow for my sins, I offer You this poor heart of mine. Make me humble, patient, pure, and wholly obedient to Your will. Grant, good Jesus, that I may live in You and for You. Protect me in the midst of danger; comfort me in my afflictions. Give me health of body, assistance in my temporal needs, Your blessing on all that I do, and the grace of a holy death. Amen.
They refer and adore the heart of Christ as a separate individual... This is heretic. Period... Do any Eastern Orthodox dare pray such a prayer? To the heart? As if they were the objects of adoration separate from Christ Himself,? No we adore and pray to Christ as God and Man inseparably not addressing our adoration to His heart alone or His Wounds or even His face alone... This is the heresy
It does not refer to his heart as a separate individual, though, "Grant, good Jesus" shows that it is a prayer to Jesus. And there is no confusion being made among people either, I'm from a Catholic country, and not a single person thinks of the sacred heart as some individual of any kind, they are all very aware it is a prayer to Jesus Christ, so aware it is not even a question. You can raise other objections if you want, but that is a bad one.
remonta al siglo XVII, cuando la santa francesa, Margarita de Alacoque
lol you guys pray to the cross why are you complaining
@@christophersalinas2722 the Cross is it's own hypostasis.
@@seraphim3r ??? The cross is wood
Amazing how many Inquirers there are in the comments....
Father bless!
I think you got many good points and I am happy to hear about humility and how to be orthodox. This is what internet "orthodoxy" greatly misses.
This said, I wanted to point out, that the story of the sacret heart includes a roman catholic nun (Margaret Mary Alacoque) that cut and burned her cheast and said that Christ switched her heart with His own. This is the origin of the sacret heart. I also think, that worshipping body parts of Christ is a bit concerning, because we have the living body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist.
I am not a fan of quoting Canons, because they are for the Bishops and not for Laypeople that treat them like protestants treat the Holy Bible, but ofcouse would it be interesting, to see this kind of Theology (Sacret Heart) from the view of the Council of Ephesus. Maybe you, another priest, or even your Bishop could make a video about this topic?
Thank you so much again and may God continue to bless the works of your hands!
With much love!
@wolvadora9049 The original devotion around the sacred heart goes back to the early medieval period (pre-1200). Alacoque's version of the devotion was much later (late 1600s), and wasn't accepted by the Vatican till the 1840s. Alacoque's version was also so different from the earlier devotion, that it was criticized by other Roman Catholics, such as Dietrich von Hildebrand in the 20th century, who wrote:
“[Yet] devotion to the Sacred Heart is exposed to distortions and misinterpretations more than any other devotion. As Cardinal Newman said, every popular religion is in some way corrupted; and his words can be especially applied to the sublime devotion to the Sacred Heart. Many devotional pictures of the Sacred Heart and especially many hymns, in their words and their melodies, display a mawkish sentimentality, and portray the Sacred Heart not only stripped of supernatural mystery but, even from the natural point of view, as insipid and mediocre...”
@@b.d.4746
Thank you, Father!
I think it would be very important for everyone to make this distinction clear. I think that "Sacret Heart" is easily misunderstood. Maybe you could do a small follow up video, where you could explain the difference between the Western Rite and the Roman Catholic understanding of it?
Thank you again!
@@wolvadora9049 I am not a priest, much less the one in this video, but glad you found the comment helpful!
@@b.d.4746
Oh, I thought you were. God bless you!
There is much good and sensible things in what he is saying, but there are some errors he is repeating, which I don't really hold against him because they are promulgated by many of the figures inquiters first read when learning about Orthodoxy. Particularly the influence of Metropolitan Kallistos Ware is obvious and his infamous slogan "we know where the Church is not where it isn't."
If we look at Fr. Seraphim Rose, a disciple of St. John of Shanghai, who blessed and served the Western Rite, he was not shy either with pointing out what was demonic in western practices and also what was good (he wrote a lot about western saints and defended St. Augustine against the Boston school), and also what was perhaps we could say tolerable (such as western style russian icons for example). The key is to have discernment, obtained from direct contact with God and constant reading of the Fathers. The problem is many involved in this situation are just sort of going by their wants and desires rather than applying this criteria, which is difficult to do.
I do think it is dangerous to say not evaluating heterodox practices is humility because while it is true that God isn't going to totally ignore people devoted to him and His Grace certainly is at work there, they do not have the Holy Mysteries, and the tradition they received has been corrupted, and the demons have swept in and put much in there. And the demons have no problem appearing as Mary and saints to Orthodox; how much more to heterodox!
I am by no means qualified to judge any of this, but Fatima appears clearly demonic going by what I've seen about it. Whereas Guadalupe, it's much harder to say that since it was an apparition to pagans that ended their paganism and human sacrifices and gave them some kind of Christianity (and we were a long ways from given them Holy Orthodoxy anytime sooner). But the important point I think is that there is clear criteria and there are people qualified to discern these things, and the key is a holistic reading and embracing of the Fathers, rather than prooftexting them and using human logic to construct an argument to appeal to subconscious passions.
Fr. Peter strikes me as a sincere and well meaning priest. I just think he's fallen for a few of the pop slogans many many converts fall for due to the popularity of Met. Kallistos' books. Met. Kallistos himself of course was well meaning especially at first but he seemed to become more and more deceived and naive as time went on unfortunately.
Very good analysis.
Shouldn't Christian spirituality move from the sensory/imaged in the imagination to the imageless God in the nous experienced by the spirit?
In the Catholic Church we differentiate between a private devotion or a public cult. When we pray the Sacred Heart of Jesus we are asking for his divine mercy from his sacrifice on calvary to cleanse us of sin and and remove attachments to the material world. At the end of the day you are honoring and worshipping God. It is an act of humility, submission, and love.
You have the Holy Cross to represent Jesus' love for humanity
Howdy y'all 👋
Fr. Peter is a great priest, that's all.
after this click on the recommend video on the right "A Reflection on the Western Rite in Orthodoxy". Hope it helps
A profound sense of shame washes over me as I read the negative comments about this issue and the disrespectful way some people refer to the priest. These individuals should be ashamed of themselves, for their fanaticism knows no bounds and is a poison that corrodes the soul. God have mercy on them, for their words reflect the poverty of their spirit. Humility is the gateway to paradise, while pride leads to hell. The devil is cunning and disguises himself in piety and false humility, so we must be vigilant, brothers and sisters. We must remember that love and respect are fundamental pillars of our faith, and destructive criticism and lack of compassion only drive people away from God. It is crucial that, instead of fueling division and hatred, we focus on promoting unity and understanding, always remembering that true faith is expressed through charity and mercy.
Amen!
Defending orthodox teaching isn't fanatism, it's part of our duty as Orthodox laymen. When the bishops came back from Florence after signing an heretical council the faithful didn't say "we have to obey these and be quiet " , they were extremely adamant on defending the true faith
"We do not change the boundaries marked out by our Fathers. We keep the Tradition we have received. If we begin to lay down the Law of the Church even in the smallest things, the whole edifice will fall to the ground in no short time."
St. John of Damascus
@@778FraxK we are defending the Orthodox teaching against hateful fanatics who reject a completely legitimate Orthodox liturgy and priest based on looks and feelings. "The priest doesn't have a beard he's not Orthodox", "he's wearing a catholic collar, he's not Orthodox" "western rite doesn't feel Orthodox" etc.
We ARE defending the faith against those who are commiting the sin and heresy of cultural supremacy and superficial evaluation of looks.
Thank you, the Holy Spirit inspired you, the devil is very cunning and he don’t have no rest to deceive people to hell. Once again thank you for support me on this. God bless you.
I literally didn't see anyone criticizing him for esthetics, but for defending heterodox practices
ХРИСТОС ВОСКРЕСЕ ✝❤
БОГ С НАМИ ПРОТИВ ЗЛА И ИСКУШЕНИЙ ✝🙏⛪🕊
Glad to see pushback against this. I'll keep following RoO, but please no more WR.
Take it up with ROCOR and Antioch then.
@@oimss2021 keep crying haha
Saints in heaven disagree
WR has saints?
News to me
@@Everly1388 ROCOR has nothing to do with this. they have a different approach to the wr than those under Antioch
I am a Roman Catholic and can't see the difference between this priest's and Rome's teachings. Can somebody help me understand please? (NB. I'm asking with no irony)
That's because he's a Catholic priest posing as Orthodox (although there's not much posing too looking at his collar).
He is in communion with a Bishop of the Orthodox Catholic Church, from which the See of Rome defected (fully) 600 years ago
To clarify, he is not trying to incorporate heterodox doctrine into the Church. He is explaining the Church’s attitude toward things outside the Church. Sometimes the Church incorporates things into the Church from outside, though only with careful discernment. You see this with pagan elements being “baptized” in. Similarly, he’s explaining that, in principle, it may be possible to “baptize” certain non-Orthodox Christian elements and bring them into the Church, like the image of OL of Guadalupe.
Watch the fuller length video, because he's not affirming Roman Catholic teaching. But he is making a call for Orthodox Christians to have humility, and reflect on what is Apostolic, and Orthodoxy. So this Priest being WR is very Orthodoxy in attitude, and is strictly against things not of the Church.
God bless us both, and forgive us too. ❤️☦️✝️
@@rize_as2ault_bb644 So what is the name of the actual Bishop of the Orthodox Catholic Church?
@@Kaileb984 Amen
If only the Bishops and Patriarchs had consulted this comment sections 😢
Won’t happen buddy they’re too busy serving the church in real ways instead of being armchair/keyboard laybishops
Reminds me how Saint Nicholas slapped Arius for spreading heresies...
Thank u
Posted four hours ago and look at the avalanche of comments. Do some Bros sit at their screens all day waiting to pounce on WR posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do their mothers serve them lunch and dinner on trays? Have clean sheets and underwear at the ready?
By reading this you know zero nothing about my take on the matter.
They surely spend more times on their screens than in church
I wise and blessed priest. Thank you Lord for this priest, he is a noble and holly man.
"the sacred heart has deep biblical and patristic roots"
does it though?
When he says that, we must understand the context of orthodoxy taking things from cultures in. But also he meant more in general idea of a description of the heart of Christ. Furthermore, he warns very much against these modern weird developments, but he speaks of devotion in a Orthodox way.
Although then it would be more of a devotion of Jesus Christ, and sacred heart part of his compassion or kindness would be in the prayers possibly? So it would be more of a pure worship of Christ, and not his parts. But listen to what he says carefully "Is this good". Whole point is humility and strong discernment.
It's a really good video if study it closely. If he got something wrong then forgive him, but sometimes it's important to keep an eye on the language.
This guy is wearing a collar invented by Presbyterians 😂🤣😂
Donald Mcleod, a Presbyterian minister in Glasgow Scotland, invented the clerical collar.
A perspective alright, a totally unorthodox perspective.
Since we are using English, where does the Western Rite stand on some of my favourite saints like Thomas Becket, John Fisher and Thomas More. Are they validly baptised? Are they saints?
No, post-schism papist "saints" are not venerated or accepted in the Orthodox Church.
Roots of orthodoxy, this is a legitimate question. Is this priest Catholic or Orthodox?
He is Orthodox of the Western rite.
My concern is that I saw a clip of the priest with the catholic holy communion. How is that Orthodox 🤔
@@mariedolianitis5144For some reason these flat wafers are accepted. I think it is something that will be rejected by a council eventually. But that’s because the Antiochians have become very liberal and lax in too much, and that will change. It completely removes so much theology, having multiple hosts, no breaking of bread. Literally you are now not doing what the apostles wrote about with the liturgy.
@@vanfjaΟὐ καλὸν τὸ καύχημα ὑμῶν. οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι μικρὰ ζύμη ὅλον τὸ φύραμα ζυμοῖ; ἐκκαθάρατε τὴν παλαιὰν ζύμην, ἵνα ἦτε νέον φύραμα, καθώς ἐστε ἄζυμοι. καὶ γὰρ τὸ πάσχα [h]ἡμῶν ἐτύθη Χριστός· ὥστε ἑορτάζωμεν, μὴ ἐν ζύμῃ παλαιᾷ μηδὲ ἐν ζύμῃ κακίας καὶ πονηρίας, ἀλλ’ ἐν ἀζύμοις εἰλικρινείας καὶ ἀληθείας.
Does this man ever have one good orthodox take? My goodness.
Fr Truebenbach and Fr Peter. That’s now two priests that you have judged. But I’m sure that you know about God better than men who have devoted their entire lives and reputations to Him, right?
You should call Fr. Heers and Fr. Trehnam here to debate with him... Its one side biased presentation..
Has Fr Josiah Trenham spoken on WR?
@@r4ngerr4ge32why would he? His Bishop oversees Western Rite parishes.
@@Everly1388 that’s why I asked.
@@evans3922 Fr. Heers don’t have a bishop sooooo 🤷🏻♂️
Is Peter Heers even a priest nobody can locate his Bishop lol
Great video.
Don't mind the pharisees.
Re: Marian apparitions outside the Church--if it's not up to us to decide if they are real or not, shouldn't we default to assuming these are demonic until the Church decides otherwise?
The intense devotion to the Blessed Virgin you mention is admirable in a way, yes, but can't it just as well be said to leave these people vulnerable to great acts of deception?
Can you honestly say that the description of the events at Fatima sound like they are of God? I won't deny that people really saw something, but why on earth would we not challenge the source aggressively so as not to be deceived?
So is unseen warfare a good book for orthodox Christian’s? I got purchased it recently and now I’m confused by the comments lol
There's an edit of it by St. Theophan the recluse, I believe.
It was highly edited and changed to make it orthodox in view.
St Patrick was simply taking Jesus’s advice to; Speak the Truth in Love.
I think this priest may be ecuministic based on his views. I also feel as tho that he is putting on some sort of character for the video and isn’t being genuine. I could be wrong tho
the sacred heart is a heretical devotion
A great Catholic priest indeed
He is a western rite Eastern Orthodox priest, not a catholic priest.
@@QuotedOrthodoxyif it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck…
@@Ephesians6twelvehave some shame
@@ContentByMarcus I would say the same to an orthodox priest wearing a dog collar
@@Ephesians6twelve Does that mean that Eastern Catholic Priests are really Orthodox then?
Please visit Holy Trinity Greek orthodox church in dallas Tx
how foreign for a muslim is alone: that God is Father and he have a Son. Now, you add that God become authentic human, and suddenly God have a heart?! - what does that supposed to mean? - was it not said that i must love god from the bottom of my heart? - and god does love me also with all his heart? think about my friends :)
I am confusion. If the point is to embrace American Heritage in Liturgical practices then shouldn't we be asking how the Roman Liturgy became a part of American Heritage? The concept of Western Rite liturgies is eastward of the Americas in origin and practice. This idea that just because it's called "Western" means everything West of Byzantium is particularly misleading. Christianity did not reach American for centuries after the Great Schism, and the Western Rite in America was popularized by Roman Catholicism.
The celebrants of Western Rite liturgies would only find a semblance of relation by way of Roman Catholicism in America. The only exposure an American would have to the Western Rite is through Catholicism. To say the Western Rite is linked to American Heritage because America is in the West is ultimately misleading. An American who relates to Western Rite liturgies relates to Roman Catholic liturgies, not Orthodoxy. Perhaps if this was a sentiment being expressed to the Orthodox in the see of Rome it would make more sense, but America has never been Orthodox, and the only Western Rite practices that existed in America before Orthodox missionaries were Catholic.
A more truthful way to explore this topic would be to say the Western Rite offers Catholic Americans some semblance of familiarity, rather than making is seem like everything Rome and West has forever been subject to the Western Rite. Since the conception of America the country has been Protestant. Nothing about the Western Rite has a grasp on American culture outside of Catholicism. A major contingent of American Christian culture was based on religious freedom apart from Catholicism and Anglicanism, thus the Western Rite. Many original immigrants came to America post reformation in order to express anti-Roman Catholic and anti-Anglican forms of Christianity.
Protestantism is the American Heritage.
The Holy Fathers: Who are we to anathematize anyone? There wasn't even a schism, really. Haha, Arius, Eunomius, and the rest, come on over here, call Muhammad over here too, let's all go together under the banner of the sacred heart...
@alek27e Did you hear the part where he said: "We stand on truth. We don't compromise truth"? (22:47)
ruclips.net/video/fa6FPILcwg4/видео.htmlsi=ok51UKRBlBpK8QZ1
For those interested, this is a recording of Western Rite Vespers (from the Rule of St. Benedict) held at the Clergy Symposium at Antiochian Village in July 2024, with His Eminence Metropolitan SABA, His Grace Bishop JOHN (Abdalah), and His Grace Bishop THOMAS presiding.
Sacred Heart, is the Symbol of God’s love,
“Even if by “heart” we should understand the Saviour’s love itself, still neither in the Old Testament nor in the New was there ever a custom to worship separately the love of God, or His wisdom, or His creative or providential power, or His sanctity.
Fr Michael Pomazansky
@@vanfja The heart is only a symbol. It expresses the idea of God's love for us and also shows how humans should love one another and respond to God's love by giving us the model of Jesus. Also, you must not seperate the divine and human in Jesus, though they are distinct. That's orthodox Christian theology as defined by the Chalcedonian council. The problem is the Eastern Orthodox Church feels that all images must fit according to the standards of Greek iconography.
@@melroycorrea7720There is no tradition in Christianity where Christ’s love was a separate devotion
@@vanfja What about the Gospel of John? Is it part of your Tradition and your meditation?
Secondly, remembering or focusing on Christ's love doesn't make it a separate devotion, because God's love in Christ includes every grace.
As an Othodox Christian married to a practicing Faithful Roman Catholic wife, I resognate with this priest. Its a really tough subject to cover but he did a very good job. All in all i love my faith as orthodox but i agree that there are gems in other religions.
Thanks father!
Me invade una profunda vergüenza ajena al leer los comentarios negativos que se vierten sobre este tema y la manera despectiva en la que algunos se refieren al sacerdote. Deberían darles vergüenza a esas personas, pues su fanatismo no conoce límites y es un veneno que corroe el alma. Dios tenga piedad de ellas, porque sus palabras reflejan la pobreza de su espíritu. La humildad es la puerta del paraíso, mientras que la soberbia conduce al infierno. El demonio es astuto y se disfraza de piedad y falsa humildad, por eso debemos estar alerta, hermanos. Debemos recordar que el amor y el respeto son pilares fundamentales de nuestra fe, y que la crítica destructiva y la falta de compasión solo alejan a las personas de Dios. Es crucial que, en lugar de alimentar la división y el odio, nos concentremos en promover la unidad y la comprensión, siempre recordando que la verdadera fe se expresa a través de la caridad y la misericordia. (Versión en español)
The “orthodox” don’t understand that meditating on an aspect of Christ doesn’t mean worshipping a part of him as it were schizophrenic. Sacred Heart devotion means meditating on Christ’s love for humanity on the cross and it is tide to the devotion of the 5 wounds and Sacred Blood of Jesus. Catholics aren’t worshipping aspects or body parts of Christ’s, but by meditating on the life and sacrifice of Jesus Christ we are recognizing him as God incarnate and thus worshiping God.
why is he wearing a filioque collar?
I truly wish that the nay sayers would watch the entire video. The end contains a message they need.
Online orthodoxy is terrible. I think most of the commenters that spend most of their times on Internet forums would be surprised how utterly common this sort of discourse is in Orthodoxy.
Most priests sound like this. I’d say it’s a 50/50 split. There’s a reason Orthodoxy flirts with Universalism more than other sects.
Indeed, the pan-heresy of Ecumenism is widespread. Do we just blindly go along?
Well, we desperately need a council or saints against this nonsense
@@ascender144k I swear if the schism between RC and EO were ever healed it would cause another schism. All the prideful arrogant orthobros would call themselves The Official Genuine Ultra Orthodox Church. They will claim to be the ONLY ones with salvation and Anathematise everyone else.
Why, because if the schism were healed they won't get to feel superior
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bccouncil of ephesus👍
Are you from US? I can say that this doesn't apply to the Orthodox countries.
Brother sounds at many points just like the serpent in the garden.
Thank you for showing me I could become Orthodox and keep my Devotion to The Sacred Heart ❤️🔥. This will truly make me discern Orthodoxy deeper.☦
You can't have both.
For that which is co-worshipped with other is altogether other than that with which it is co-worshipped. But we are accustomed to worship Emmanuel with one worship, not severing from the Word the Body That was Personally united to Him.
Saint Cyril of Alexandria.
No you cannot be Orthodox and have a devotion to a body part. Even if it is just a symbol of love, it is still a devotion to a part, not the whole of Christ.
@@vanfja I believe Jesus literally said otherwise tho... Jesus said to a nun, devote yourselves to the heart which so loves men it has consumed itself to testify of its love
@@Maria-g1o3z Well, guess I'm staying Catholic. ICKSP for life 😃
@@vanfja Yep.
I think that along with Fr Christian Siskos this is one of the few reasonable guys among the orthodox (west-haters) in the social media.
People who are against the WR and its practices are against Orthodoxy.
People who support blatant nestorian and ecumenist heresy are against Orthodoxy.
The saints are on the WRs side
That's true for western rite and western orthodox practices, not heterodox practices
I would research much more about the Saints and their interactions with WR before saying those out of context statements.
REPENT
The tradition of our Saints, as well as beloved Orthodox theologians, is full of radical points of view, such as universalism and sophiology. Those objecting to this priest should reconsider. Especially if you are American (like me), you probably lack an appreciation of the breadth of Orthodox perspectives and practices.
Is this priest orthodox?
@@evans3922hes Orthodox according the all of the jurrisdictions that accept the sacrements of the Western Rite as valid, which is all of them. Take it up with Metropolitan Nicholas and Metropolitan Saba. One of them is this Priesrs Bishop.
I dont know why this priest is not catolic?
He is. A priest of the Orthodox Catholic Church ☦️❤️🔥
BASED
Because the RCC is in error and schism
The sacred heart is nestorian
Only if you believe his body and divinity can be separated. King David asked God to incline his ear was that Nestorian too?
nice
A lot of these comments are prideful.
🪴
The Sacred Heart of Jesus is the most beautiful, it is the Eucharist itself, saying it is heretical is an offense to Christ and a truly big one.
The Eucharist is the Whole Body, Blood, Soul, & Divinity of Jesus Christ. The Sacred Heart is a symbol of The Eucharist; The Flesh of Christ, The Blood of Christ, The Love of Christ. ❤️🔥
If anyone's calling him out because he's wearing a collar, know that Greek Orthodox priests in America wear colllars too.
And Bishops. They like to look more protestant for some reason, embarrassed by their Orthodox traditions. You can travel to France and Italy and see many Catholic clerics wearing a cassock, but in America we like to look like Protestants
It's good that you're talking about this topic, because some Orthodox Christians have a certain prejudice and don't understand this devotion to the Sacred Heart. I am an Orthodox Christian who comes from the Roman Catholic tradition, and I understand that the focus of this devotion is to seek the mercy of Jesus in order to heal, that is, to seek to become a better person day by day. It's a shame that certain groups of Orthodox Christians with prejudice and without any prior research have violently opposed this devotion. Remember that religious fundamentalism is a sin of pride and because of pride Satan was expelled from Heaven. Watch out for that.
It's not some Orthodox Christians. I can tell you that all Orthodox Patriarchies are against this heresy.
"Religious fundamentalism" reads like an ecumenist dog whistle against traditionalists. Is following the Church dogma and the teachings of the Church Fathers fundamentalism? Were they fundamentalist when they fought against heresies to preserve the true faith?
@@0live0wire0amen!
For that which is co-worshipped with other is altogether other than that with which it is co-worshipped. But we are accustomed to worship Emmanuel with one worship, not severing from the Word the Body That was Personally united to Him.-St Cyril.
23:30 ?
Watch until 19:58 until the end. Listen to his words carefully, because this Priest is a very humble person, and is calling for Orthodox Christians to remember what Orthodoxy is all about, and what Jesus Christ always taught to remember. So when he says 'left behind etc etc' he's saying to just forget all that for a minute, Nd take a moment to remind ourselves of what Christianity is about (Orthodoxy is Christianity).
I think only a few actually got this slip 😂
Reading the majority of these comments it’s clear that most of the commenters “learn” Orthodoxy from Jay Dyer and David Erhan…
EO rejection of the Sacred Heart devotion is filled with hypocrisy, contradiction, and rooted in anti-Catholicism.
EO and anti catholicism? sounds redundant to me haha. Lord have mercy on them
So many Bishops in the comments, amazing!