Most interesting and thank you Dr Ashenden for sharing your day with Jordon Peterson. Like so many people I am very grateful to him for his fight against cultural Marxism. He is a brave man, but I do feel that in spite of having a loving family and countless followers, he is also a lonely soul. If he could only take the hand of our Saviour and walk with him, how much stronger and happier he would be. Yes, we will pray for him to come to the realisation that with Jesus in his heart his voice will catch the truth, and fire his words with the Divine.
Better, is a relative term, you might think your a better version of yourself, while others may not. At the end of the day though, it's if you're happy with yourself that matters! If someone is a bum and they're happy, it's a lot better than trying to conform to how you think others would like you to become!
@@andrewlilley3660 You are absolutely right, Andrew! The new and improved me finally found the courage to say "No!", which as you can imagine, angered many friends who were used to hearing me say yes to everything. It was "better" for me, but certainly not for everyone. As Dr. Peterson noted, the fake friends scattered, and the true friends became even closer.
@@Milestonemonger The point is though you shouldn't need a guru to find that out for yourself. I don't like the way Peterson says that your wife or partner should be more in love with who you could be? rather than who you are, if a person can't love you for who you are, then it's a nonstarter in my book, thanks. So, in making that statement Peterson is saying you should conform to other people's standards? You can't have it both ways!
@@andrewlilley3660 it's simple evolutionary psychology. Women are attracted to the capacity they see you could have of aquaring resources. That's how our genes passed from generation to generation.
Er, No, he doesn't he may have good intentions? But, for instance, the insane goals he sets for young men are unachievable in the economic environment we now find ourselves in, so are counterproductive and totally unrealistic. He's very fond of the phrase we are beasts of burden??? Well, fuck that! I doubt that he has ever been an example of this? It's a case of doing as I say not as I do, me thinks.
@@littlemissprickles No, I am not! Thanks. If you enjoy the bollocks that he spouts, be my guest. I suggest you take the time to look at how many young men are working in supermarkets filling shelves, that might give you a fair indication that my point is very valid! It was virtually unheard of when I was growing up, a long time ago, that's because there were still many professions and trades, for young men to follow, now there are almost none. By your response, you don't sound old enough or mature enough to give an opinion on the subject? If you disagree at least tell me why? thanks.
@James Williams Yes, but why would there be the need for motivation in that area? If the problem was not much deeper, the social and economic structure no longer exists for his guidance to bear any fruit! Peterson of all people, must be painfully aware if this! So, what I'm saying is it's almost as if he's setting them up for a fall. Making ones bed will not cut it, without the opportunity to prosper in life, it is a downward spiral, thanks.
@James Williams No, I am not talking about aspiring to any lavish lifestyle? I am saying that people need some sort of a stake in life, or at least the tools and resources to try and make that a reality if they wish?
Thank you Dr. Ashe! My son and I Love to listen to your content together (a blessing I couldn’t possibly go into the depths of). Oh, what I would give to have been there in that spot to listen to two of my intellectual heroes just chatting around!
Thank you Rev Ashenden......You are a gift to mankind.......your gentleness of the Holy Spirit soothes all those that are blessed to hear your heavenly thoughts.. such a joy....love and peace....Amen....
Thank you so much Dr Ashenden for this deep and compassionate assessment of Jordan’s considerable contribution and also his limitations. I have been wanting to hear him understood in terms of faith for a long time.
Like others commenting here I am delighted that you were able to meet Jordan Peterson in an unhurried context. Rather than looking at Peterson as someone who, we hope, will develop his thinking and understanding further in a particular direction, I prefer to be simply grateful for the help he has given to millions of people - especially young men in need of inspiration to provide the motivation to become better people. I am confident that the vast majority of the people who have been influenced by him have been influenced for the better, and that that influence has been lasting and is making the world a better place than it would otherwise have been.
@@eo78 He needs a rest. He has been debilitated by his illness and other stresses and - in my view - is struggling to bounce back. However many of his recent interviews have shown him failing to rise above the mediocre. Perhaps he should take a couple of years off and focus on a fourth book, with public appearances limited to one every two or three months (and those NOT with an antagonistic interviewer) and closure of his Twitter account.
Rupert Sheldrake often makes a point originally made famous by Bertrand Russel, which is that science describes what matter does, not what it is. The conception of matter as merely dead ‘stuff’ is an assumption that science is not equipped to surpass, as it can only grasp what can be measured. This is where my journey out of atheism began, and it is also where my journey out of radical left-wing politics began. These two dramatic changes coincided because I no longer felt the burden of fixing the human condition. I no longer had to pursue salvation in the creation of a utopia here in this life because I no longer believed that I was simply made of earthly ‘stuff.’ Instead of fixing the world I reflect on my own fallen state, my own sin, and unknowing participation in evil. I feel that the intellect is doomed to never understand what matter ‘is.’ It seems like a futile attempt to fit an ocean into a teaspoon. You have reintroduced me to the religion of my birth. Christianity now appears as an interface where the Divine meets human reality, where we can taste the ocean in a teaspoon.
@@Louis.R I found Girard’s ideas in ‘The Scapegoat’ to be fascinating. Schopenhauer has been on my list ever since hearing Bernardo Kastrup discuss his idealism on Jeffrey Mishlove’s channel.
Your mention of no longer feeling the burden of fixing the human condition really leapt out to me. Lately, conditions here in the US in particular have left me deeply troubled, along with the conditions I find within myself. Thanks for the comment. I hadn’t realized I was taking on the burden for fixing the human condition and the condition of the world that has resulted. It’s His burden. Not mine, not yours. I’d really like to remember this.
Oh, my gosh! I saw that podcast of yours where you addressed Dr. Peterson with comments that you wanted to share with him, so I am so happy for you that you got to meet him. I love you both!
How can you? You're in love with the fabrication of a person that is delivered to you exactly as they wish to be portrayed! This tells you nothing about the actual person? You would have to have lived with them to get an inkling of that, it's no different from idolizing a soap star, Peterson will be nothing like the person he would have you believe he is, I can guarantee that, thanks.
It is pretty clear from some of these comments that anyone who offers the least criticism of Peterson is shot down by his disciples, with inane snipes, this exemplifies how easily they are bamboozled! No wonder Charlie Manson found it so easy.
Wonderful, thank you Gavin. I longed to be able to talk to Dr Peterson but I am now very satisfied by your interaction with him and your explanations, and of course the very serious consequences for him of the two women in his life who are not intellectuals. I was listening to Paul Kingsnorth very recently who was hounded down to faith against his will as was C.S. Lewis. God breaks in from the outside, its only by His grace, God bless you.
Yes, I agree with the divine hounding. There is that wonderful poem by Francis Thompson, 'the Hound of Heaven', which describes it so powerfully. "I fled Him, down the nights and down the days; I fled Him, down the arches of the years; I fled Him, down the labyrinthine ways Of my own mind; and in the midst of tears I hid from Him, and under running laughter. Up vistaed hopes I sped; And shot, precipitated, Adown Titanic glooms of chasmed fears, From those strong Feet that followed, followed after. But with unhurrying chase, And unperturbed pace, Deliberate speed, majestic instancy, They beat - and a Voice beat More instant than the Feet - 'All things betray thee, who betrayest Me'......
Thank you… I’ve leaned so much on RUclips. I don’t think we really comprehend how revolutionary it is. People like you infuse it with a richness of knowledge
Just a shame they only tolerate a certain viewpoint or discussion? The fact that Peterson's and the like are not censored? Well, this tells me that his views are encouraged by the mainstream media, so I don't think he is as wholesome as many would like to believe!
@@skumflum3768 Those are your words not mine, I never mentioned conspiracy! I just take exception to your adulation of youtube? It is only revolutionary in that it is a propaganda tool first and foremost. Peterson has his popular villains for instance, but none of these are from victors of the two world wars? I wonder why these are never mentioned? he has so many to choose from! so this in itself is a very strong indication he is something of a shill, thanks.
@@andrewlilley3660 if you read carefully I’ve never wrote anything about JP (I have my opinion) it’s RUclips as a technology. Never in the history of mankind could a video or spoken word have the longevity like a book and without bandwidth limitations. It can be utilized for cute dog videos, unpacking videos, lectures and interviews. If you don’t think this is a revolution you are not thinking
@@skumflum3768 I don't dispute that it can be educational, but the pets videos are truly vomit inducing, in my opinion! It's primary function though is the manipulation of society, if you can't see that then you're not thinking.
I was surprised and glad to see the Cambridge union welcome J Peterson back and really grateful to to be able to watch the YT video of his talk yesterday. Thankyou too for sharing your recollection of the talks with him afterwards and giving us some perspectives on the way he has helped many, me at least - understand this whole existence/ reality thing. Thankyou.
Many thanks Dr Ashenden for your refutation of comparatively lumping Christianity in with all other religions, namely, the 1000 year witness of prophets taken by the collar against their will, as it were, to convey God's revelation "breaking in" on us. I had not heard this ever articulated so clearly as to how we Christians stand apart from all other religions in this respect. I'll have to consider this vis-à-vis Hinduisn, which curiously seems to possess a profound sense of incarnation.
An absolutely brilliant podcast Gavin. Your discuss with Peterson was right on the money.Peterson must stand humbled before the cross, it is the only answer to the problem of evil. Glad to know his wife and daughter are both Christians. He is not far from the kingdom.
'Peterson must stand humbled before the cross?' Such a dictatorial comment from a person that practises such an apparent benign religion doesn't seem quite right? Those words you have written belong in the vocabulary of a cult.
@@charliefinley13 David Virtue likely has a point, though his wording ("Peterson MUST") seemed like it was full of his own ego --> as in "I know what JP must do". Only God knows what we should do; all of us humans are just doing our best, praying to God for directions & praying that what we do is good. We are all sinners & thinking we know what is best (lack of humility) is often our/ my most tenacious sin.
@@charliefinley13 Your reaction against "must" indicates that you are power-oriented, a mentality which Dr. Ashenden wisely associates with the Woke. Within the hierarchical reality, in which love, truth and freedom can flourish, "must" is a simple statement of fact, not the command of a dictator. And being "humbled" before the Cross is not abasement, it is as natural as being humbled by the magnificence of the night sky. It is true-hearted response to Infinite Love, beyond all pride, self-will and ego.
@@mondopinion3777 I agree with Charlie. The person saying “must” is the one with the problem. I believe in our society we have certain religious freedoms. There is no “must” about it.
Hi, first time visitor who really enjoyed your video, the content was great food for thought and with your eyes of the most unique colour, that was really something. Thank you. I have recently started going to church and I'm so excited to hear about Jesus. I've always valued truth and when the modern, dark, social movements came I sort an external light to guide me and that led me to a loving church and a journey of discovery. Your video affirmed that I'm on the right path and there's so much more to learn. Thank you.
Amen. I am glad to have stumbled upon your insight concerning JP, as I have recently been guided to listen to his materials available online. As a former bricklayer/entrepreneur turned filmmaker by God’s Grace having been born again by His Spirit, I know the life changing power that is miraculous. Thank you for taking the time to make this recording, God bless you real good 👍 🙏😎
@@DrGAshenden thank you for your reply and encouragement. I have passed your video on to a Catholic friend who has himself passed on to many others. God bless you and your family 👍
Gavin I'm going to put the link onto this onto my face book and I'll also send it to two of my sons. This is you at your very best. JP has certainly fired you up.
Your user name is Polish? I understand a little bit not all. What does it mean? Is it to do with freedom? You are free, have been freed? To love? Would appreciate a translation.
Dr. Peterson's clips are my No. 1 choice whenever i feel that my mind is mingled. His contribution on keeping people like me in sanity and looking up has been tremendous to which I'm forever grateful. On the one hand i honestly felt that Dr. Peterson has fought the good fight, on the other hand i wish him to go from strength to strength, purely out of my own selfishness.
I really enjoy watching Dr. Peterson wrestle with God. I am so happy to hear truth and not religious saying without depth to back them up,,,,,,lets cheer for anyone who is a truth seeker. Dr. Gavin Ashenden has a kind spirit and I like hearing his analysis.
You are so interesting and I just wish I had people like you in my life with whom to carry discussions even if only very occasionally 💕 it's so motivating to know that other humans wish to discuss so deeply also, it's just that for many like myself I suspect, there's no one in our environment that's remotely interested.
The great thing about the internet is that it allows us some access to one anothers' lives in constructive ways if we choose.to treat each other gently with with dignity.
I am very pleased to hear you had this opportunity Dr Ashenden, I believe I have heard JP mention that he is aware of the dangers he is subject to in being lionised as a hero archetype. I think he may have said it contributed in some sense to the dreadful I'll health he suffered.
Wonderful talk! Thank you! In the case of Dr Peterson, I wonder if some people have to stand on the threshold, so to speak, so as not to alienate those who might be put off by the few who have crossed into a realm of faith, which is, well, scary, to so many people. Especially those who have reached the end of SHS (self-help syndrome), like myself, for instance. I am astounded by the call to surrender, as I think Dr. Peterson is as well, 'but, but, but," in a Salman Rushdie sort of way, I don't want to be too far away from the door, so to be close enough reach back--which is an old, rough definition of the Latin word "religio," if I'm remembering correctly.
Thank you, I learn so much from you Dr. By the way you need to have Jordans name in your titles more often...it will bring more people to your videos. That would be a blessing
The work of evangelizing is primarily the work of converting ourselves so that we can be true witnesses to the reality of Jesus Christ. I am confident that the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to reach Jordan Peterson since he is apparently a true seeker of Truth. Dr. Ashenden’s journey and Dr. Petersen’s journey show us that intelligence and public acclaim do not bring Christ’s peace. The gift of faith leads to peace when one is authentically open and humble.
First time I saw you. I thought, okay this is guy is a bit far from me. I saw you as like Billy Graham as you mentioned recently. But now I get you a bit clearer. There is a triangulation necessary or a dissolution of those numerous points which are obstacles to seeing. So, keep it up and God bless your work
I'd love to ask Jordan Peterson about Chesterton. He's read C.S. Lewis' works, but Chesterton is on a higher level. I think he would be challenged. Also, a conversation between Douglas Wilson and Jordan Peterson would be awesome.
I want to hear someone go into depth about why the Jungian perspective is not deep enough or insufficient for a complete life. I'm always trying to surpass the greatest ideas that I feel beholden to at any given time. Anyone who can disabuse me of the Jungian perspective will have my eternal gratitude.
I'd like to help you, so I try. I just don't know anything about your Jungian perspective, which is surly less narrow then mine. I only make use of Jung`s typology. I am better at observing than at describing or building a theory. Jung's typology gives me words helping to describe what I observe and prioritize some details so I can construct relations between the different functions, sometimes even grasping a bit of sensing which most of the time is dimmed by my focus on intuition. I kind of bolster my weak thinking by using Jung's words and theory. Its useful, but its not what I hope for. Even if I'd learn to integrate feeling it wouldn't be what I hope: I would still stay within the confines of my mind. So I hope for someone overcoming the limits of my mind. This someone has to have no limits at all. It looks like Jesus being the one.
Very enjoyable, especially about forgiveness, same thing I suppose in AA about making Amens to people we have harmed, not only are we freed of Resentment but it can also free them of their Resentment to us, the Door can swing both ways, glad I didn't switch off when you mentioned Judo- Christianity. Marx, Trotsky, Stalin, all White Christian Family Haters.
I am a believer in Christ and i am what is called a full preterist in that i believe that Christs second coming took place with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD as He said it would . I am 68 years old and was brought up in the church of England but drifted away from it when i was a young teenager and had nothing more to do with religion till i tried to find God in my mid 50's. I started reading the bible for the first time and really threw myself body and soul into it up to now. I started my road to faith in pentacostalism then went into the baptist denominations, flirted with the c of e again and even like Ashenden flirted with roman catholicism as my wife was raised one. All the denominations left me cold after 15 years. I then came across preterism that really cleared up all the reservations and questions i had about biblical faith. Effectively if a person is a full preterist , or believe in the sort of preterism i do , christianity only existed during the ministry of Christ on earth ie during the period between his birth and his parousia around 70AD. The great flaw in the sort of theology that Mr Ashenden teaches were something he admitted quite subconciously in his opening remarks to this video. He said that he was a member of a small group of people who met Petersen and he had hoped to be able to CONVERT HIM. The real achilles heal of christianity as it has existed for the last 2000 years and all other religions is that they insist that they have something that everyone else lacks. They preach that their flesh is more sanctified than other peoples flesh and that through this sanctification lies salvation. That denies what Christ completed 2000 years ago. When every human being born in the last 2000 years dies , God no longer even sees what they did in the flesh , He only sees and judges what is in the heart. This is the completed work of Christ. Science, religion and philosophy all deny this and try to find a "fig leaf" to cover their nakedness. As Tyndale said " and of him that will not be saved by Christs merits but by the works of his own imagination we say " it is a holyworkman" both ashenden and petersen are "holyworkmen" whether they realize it or not.
Disclaimer: I paused the video on 22 minutes as I'm also cleaning the house right now so forgive me if I'm going to adress a point that could be mentioned later on in this video, though unlikely. I've been following Peterson's development and his tip toeing around Christianity for a while now, it's absolutely fascinating. To me it seems he is stuck in the intellectual side of it all. He one time burst into tears about THE IDEA of Jesus, yet not about the living Jesus, as if the idea Jesus is an actual real living entity was a bridge too far. It is as if he is dipping his toes in the water but reluctant to jump in, and I say this without any form of judgement, it's just an observation but I find watching this development of his fascinating. Another aspect I'm missing in general whenever Jesus is discussed be it by laymen, scholars theologians or atheists is that the concept of the kingdom of heaven is almost always overlooked. (I heard that N.T. Wright recently wrote a book about this topic and I have yet to read it.) The nature of the kingdom of heaven seems to me to be an expression of the perfect state of being: how humans relate to God, and towards eachother, it is simultaneously transcending AND mondane; to be applied and persued in this life as well as in the next. I don't perceive myself as a christian but as someone that tries to practice christianity on a daily basis. There's people who focus on the crucifiction, Christ as the Redeemer, there's people who focus more on the teachings, but few seem to focus on the concept of the kingdom of heaven, and I think there's much more to it than a lot of people think, Jesus is the Saviour, yes, Jesus gave us His teachings as written down in the gospels, yes, but He was also a radical who gave us instructions in regards to the world we live in in this earthly life, and that seems to me to be often overlooked.
You indicated that humans can only take so much reality and that you have to be careful as to how much truth you can share with them. And so, those who seek the truth find themselves going down one rabbit hole after another. How lovely it would be if the truth in its entirety were disclosed to the masses.
A tear of joy, a tear of sorrow, each is a profound testimony to our personal condition, yet when brought together the fullness of the human narrative emerges as if to invoke the most prolific Love story in the history of the universe, one Authored exclusively by our Father in Heaven. Why do we rejoice? Why do we weep? Why must we experience such emotion at all? Why is it that throughout history mankind has plucked the strings of the human heart to deliberately expose our shared human condition? Could the defining element of what it means to be human, also be the defining element of God? Perhaps humankind expresses tears of joy and tears of sorrow because we are created in the likeness of our Creator. Could it be that our Father in Heaven shares His tears with us, tears humbly veiled within Holy Scripture and mankind’s history? Consider for a moment the possibility that God our Heavenly Father indeed sheds such far reaching droplets of passion that Divine joy and sorrow emerge as if to articulate an extension of His Providence and sacrifice, all for the sake of His beloved children in this world. Would we then be obliged to listen? Would we then make the life changing commitment to connect with Him?
I found your insight into Dr. Peterson to be enlightening. I’ve often wondered why he is so resistant to ‘taking the plunge’ of committing to Christ. Sometimes I think he’s too smart for his own good.
Cathy Newman is possessed as surely as JB is possessed; by his incredible intellect …which will never allow him bow to anyone! Really enjoyable talk even though I don’t have the education understand it all !
Personally I think if Peterson got in touch with his inner peasant he would find a short path to God, one in which life and death come into focus much more quickly and the need for salvation is a daily obvious thing. I think for many academia becomes a fascinating and distracting noise, an exercise of the mind that grinds on and on but misses the most vital thing, which is God. One also sees this in many "high achievers" where hours and hours are spent on great efforts to accomplish a goal to the exclusion of everything else. Noise is what it is. Noise can be almost anything, it depends on what attracts us personally. It may be art, mathematics, science, sex, TV, philosophy, history, music, drugs, it can even be worry. Little gods in a sense.
@@triplea6174 A peasant lives close to the land and depends on and confronts all sorts of unpredictable things all the time. They stay focused on rain, drought, crop failures, stillbirths, regular births, burying the dead. In short, classroom time and instruction is "in the field" hands-on, on-the-job and the basic question of the existence of God is addressable much more immediately and much more necessarily. That question is also answered more quickly, assuming one even had to ask, since the answer is obvious to most. Such an existence where life and death of loved ones and danger is on-going forces one to focus on what is real. In such focusing one makes growth in the spiritual life, and indeed can come into contact with God and may find the Jesus Christ guy is actually who He said He was and IS. To see certain fine art one should visit a museum, to see God, one must make the God trip. It is not theoretical. Anyone who thinks He has to prove to himself that God exists is already in trouble since we don't tell Him what to do, nor how to prove it, and that's the point. His rules. God is not found in deep thinking in text books He is more accessible than that. We find God the same way He made us, one -on-one. Peterson needs to understand he has to surrender. Peasants know that when waiting for rain and everything else. He is on the right track, mostly, but he needs to go further, to evolve into the peasant. Humility before the Divine.
It’s very helpful hearing the tools of democracy’s enemies, the inversion and contortion of vocabulary, being clarified. I seem to hear Nihilism being referred to, but when it’s pronounced in an unconventional way, it’s missed.
Great, thanks Gavin. I am beginning to think more and more, that Mr Peterson has come through his dark night with a ball and chain which he drags with him, which is deep routed pride for having pulled himself up out of the Slough of Despond. I have much respect for him; he is more of a man then I will ever be and he seems to doing a lot of good. We both know that without The Spirt of God in it, no matter how eloquent it sounds, it will come to nothing. Because Mr Peterson is a celebrity, many of us Catholics have hero worshipped him ( Guilty!) There are, I am sure, a few Spirit lead Petersons in the Catholic Church, Would you not agree, Jordan; Oops ! Freudian Slip, I mean Gavin. 😊 Keep the good work up sir. John
Jordan Peterson is in a very dangerous situation. He has discovered enough to get powerful insights into truth of scripture and of God, but is holding off on stepping across the line to meet the authour of the book. If he remains in his current state he most likely will be the founder of the next cult and lead a great many people astray. Pray not only for him but for those who follow him!
I think he has experienced the grace, there is no way, he will "wonder off". Wise and sensitive, knowing The Truth, he will grab It, and never let It go.
@@jolayolka9323 if you read the parable of the sower you will see that not everyone who is exposed to the truth ends up remaining there. Many people are more enamored with their own intellect and autonomy than they are willing to give control to anyone else. Peterson has my prayers and support but he is nobody's saviour.
3 Hail Marys for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻 that you may continue doing the Lord's work ✝️ and for Jordan Peterson 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻 that Our Lady may obtain for him the grace of conversion 📿
I can wager with pretty good certainty that those who wish to hear what Jordan Peterson had to say we'll go to his invaluable videos and talks and lectures and actually listen to what the man himself has to say
That was totally absorbing thank you so much , when Jordan Peterson became very ill I did jump to the thought about Job and being touched in the flesh …..do you think God actually allowed him to be touched in the flesh in this way , when we are taken to the point of death but do not die then a spiritual awakening happens
There is no better story, especially in old age like me. Truth can't be false and true at the same time. Christ is our eternal King. Who would want it any other way?
Gavin, many thanks for this video and your reflections on Jordan Peterson. I admire his boldness, intelligence and what he has been doing to help people with their challenges, including lack of meaning and experienced confusion. But as you do see the limitations of his approach. JP seem to me, even if he criticises scientism, a child of scientism who has not yet grown out of this "sickness" of childhood towards more mature understanding of reality. His constant references to Jungian psychology, with all its thought provoking knowledge and insights on human behaviour, and equally numerous references to evolutionary biology, create a platform to reach out to scientifically minded audience but also constitute his limitation. He perhaps evolves from reductionist scientism towards more comprehensive view of the world, but still with one leg is there. A good example is misreading of the Revelation as psychedelic experience. He apparently does not have knowledge and experience of mysticism, spiritual experience of encounter with transcendent God whose greatness we can only not by traces in nature and fully in Jesus Christ. The kind of experience fathers of the desert had and other mystics. Will St. John of the Cross be also classified by JP as sb having psychedelic experience ? He referrers often to Auschwitz and Gulag experience which is very important for his message. I met personally Victor Frankl, a psychoanalysts and psychiatrist from Vienna, who developed a new psychotherapeutic school called LOGOTHERAPY where one of the the key aspects was to help people to discover sense (meaning) of their lives. Logotherapy i.e. the therapy of meaning, as in finding meaning in one’s life, as Frankl approached it (1929) recognizes "three possible ways to find meaning in life: a deed we do or a work we create; a meaningful human encounter, particularly one involving love; and choosing one’s attitude in the face of unavoidable suffering. Logotherapy eventually became known as the third school of Viennese psychotherapy, after Freud’s psychoanalysis and Adler’s individual psychology." Frankl lived through the experience of concentration camp. His books "Homo patiens" , "A man searching for meaning" issued many years ago keep to be a great inspiration for many. (see summary of Frankl work here:socialsci.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Psychology/Book%3A_Personality_Theory_in_a_Cultural_Context_(Kelland)/09%3A_Viktor_Frankl_Rollo_May_and_Existential_Psychology/9.03%3A_Viktor_Frankl_and_Logotherapy ) Thanks for all what you said and reflected upon and your generous words about JP.
The problem I have with Dr Peterson rejection of dogma is that he acts as if they came out of nowhere. He acts like they are completely arbitrary and thus reverts to a rather base secular criticism of it. He can talk about a hierarchy of values and archetypes, but then seems to reject dogmas as something that just hover above this without any underlying structure preceding them. I think we need a critical distance from his ideas.
Yes, I agree in part. He is anxious about truth reduced to propositional statements.. But I think if pressed he might agree that he is anxious with how people use axioms rather than the axioms or dogma themselves.
Collective individually . Wow , like a well functioning crew . Each member with their own set of skills coming together to create a masterpiece of labor . I find it repulsive to think of those that understand how and why the need for diversity in individuality in skills and attributes are needed in the work place , but don't understand the need in a well functioning society to except our differences and build on them . Automation , Advances in modern convenience , competitiveness and Unions are not evil , but the way we choose to apply them can be .
Dr Ashenden, a small correction for your listeners: The heresy that at 38:00 you refer to in speaking of JBP, I think you mean "Pelagianism" rather than Arianism
Yes indeed. You are quite right. I was beginning with Arianism because Peterson's 'lower' view of who Jesus is compares to Arius, but I failed to get on to Pelagius who as you rightly point out was (in)famous for articulating the view that self-improvement was sufficiently possible.
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Most interesting and thank you Dr Ashenden for sharing your day with Jordon Peterson. Like so many people I am very grateful to him for his fight against cultural Marxism. He is a brave man, but I do feel that in spite of having a loving family and countless followers, he is also a lonely soul. If he could only take the hand of our Saviour and walk with him, how much stronger and happier he would be. Yes, we will pray for him to come to the realisation that with Jesus in his heart his voice will catch the truth, and fire his words with the Divine.
The fact Cambridge relented and allowed JP to come and teach gave me a sense of hope.
No one, not even my mother whom I adore, influenced me to be a better and stronger version of my self like Jordan has. I am forever grateful 🙏
Better, is a relative term, you might think your a better version of yourself, while others may not.
At the end of the day though, it's if you're happy with yourself that matters!
If someone is a bum and they're happy, it's a lot better than trying to conform to how you think others would like you to become!
@@andrewlilley3660 You are absolutely right, Andrew!
The new and improved me finally found the courage to say "No!", which as you can imagine, angered many friends who were used to hearing me say yes to everything. It was "better" for me, but certainly not for everyone. As Dr. Peterson noted, the fake friends scattered, and the true friends became even closer.
@@Milestonemonger The point is though you shouldn't need a guru to find that out for yourself.
I don't like the way Peterson says that your wife or partner should be more in love with who you could be? rather than who you are, if a person can't love you for who you are, then it's a nonstarter in my book, thanks.
So, in making that statement Peterson is saying you should conform to other people's standards?
You can't have it both ways!
@@Milestonemonger You make yourself sound like a bottle of detergent? Hahaha, but, yes, saying no is wonderful and liberating.
@@andrewlilley3660 it's simple evolutionary psychology. Women are attracted to the capacity they see you could have of aquaring resources. That's how our genes passed from generation to generation.
Peterson’s helping to make the world a better place, on a scale that’s extraordinary for one person.
Enjoyed this clip
Er, No, he doesn't he may have good intentions? But, for instance, the insane goals he sets for young men are unachievable in the economic environment we now find ourselves in, so are counterproductive and totally unrealistic.
He's very fond of the phrase we are beasts of burden??? Well, fuck that! I doubt that he has ever been an example of this? It's a case of doing as I say not as I do, me thinks.
@@andrewlilley3660 lol that's what you think but you're incorrect.
@@littlemissprickles No, I am not! Thanks. If you enjoy the bollocks that he spouts, be my guest.
I suggest you take the time to look at how many young men are working in supermarkets filling shelves, that might give you a fair indication that my point is very valid! It was virtually unheard of when I was growing up, a long time ago, that's because there were still many professions and trades, for young men to follow, now there are almost none. By your response, you don't sound old enough or mature enough to give an opinion on the subject? If you disagree at least tell me why? thanks.
@James Williams Yes, but why would there be the need for motivation in that area? If the problem was not much deeper, the social and economic structure no longer exists for his guidance to bear any fruit! Peterson of all people, must be painfully aware if this! So, what I'm saying is it's almost as if he's setting them up for a fall. Making ones bed will not cut it, without the opportunity to prosper in life, it is a downward spiral, thanks.
@James Williams No, I am not talking about aspiring to any lavish lifestyle? I am saying that people need some sort of a stake in life, or at least the tools and resources to try and make that a reality if they wish?
Thank you Dr. Ashe! My son and I Love to listen to your content together (a blessing I couldn’t possibly go into the depths of).
Oh, what I would give to have been there in that spot to listen to two of my intellectual heroes just chatting around!
I second that!
Thank you so much.
Thank you Rev Ashenden......You are a gift to mankind.......your gentleness of the Holy Spirit soothes all those that are blessed to hear your heavenly thoughts.. such a joy....love and peace....Amen....
Dr Gavin such a kind and smart man. Loved his reflections
Thank you so much Dr Ashenden for this deep and compassionate assessment of Jordan’s considerable contribution and also his limitations. I have been wanting to hear him understood in terms of faith for a long time.
Thanks for your kind comment- and for leaving it here.
Like others commenting here I am delighted that you were able to meet Jordan Peterson in an unhurried context.
Rather than looking at Peterson as someone who, we hope, will develop his thinking and understanding further in a particular direction, I prefer to be simply grateful for the help he has given to millions of people - especially young men in need of inspiration to provide the motivation to become better people. I am confident that the vast majority of the people who have been influenced by him have been influenced for the better, and that that influence has been lasting and is making the world a better place than it would otherwise have been.
Excellent point
What direction do you think he needs to develop in?
@@eo78 He needs a rest. He has been debilitated by his illness and other stresses and - in my view - is struggling to bounce back. However many of his recent interviews have shown him failing to rise above the mediocre. Perhaps he should take a couple of years off and focus on a fourth book, with public appearances limited to one every two or three months (and those NOT with an antagonistic interviewer) and closure of his Twitter account.
Anyone would think he had met the Messiah? I really don't understand the adulation of this man?
@@andrewlilley3660 Try work a bit harder on your understanding, Andrew.
Rupert Sheldrake often makes a point originally made famous by Bertrand Russel, which is that science describes what matter does, not what it is. The conception of matter as merely dead ‘stuff’ is an assumption that science is not equipped to surpass, as it can only grasp what can be measured. This is where my journey out of atheism began, and it is also where my journey out of radical left-wing politics began. These two dramatic changes coincided because I no longer felt the burden of fixing the human condition. I no longer had to pursue salvation in the creation of a utopia here in this life because I no longer believed that I was simply made of earthly ‘stuff.’ Instead of fixing the world I reflect on my own fallen state, my own sin, and unknowing participation in evil. I feel that the intellect is doomed to never understand what matter ‘is.’ It seems like a futile attempt to fit an ocean into a teaspoon. You have reintroduced me to the religion of my birth. Christianity now appears as an interface where the Divine meets human reality, where we can taste the ocean in a teaspoon.
Thanks be to God!
Great comment! X
Read Violence and the Sacred by René Girard and, if you have the time, The World as Will and Idea by Schopenhauer
@@Louis.R I found Girard’s ideas in ‘The Scapegoat’ to be fascinating. Schopenhauer has been on my list ever since hearing Bernardo Kastrup discuss his idealism on Jeffrey Mishlove’s channel.
Your mention of no longer feeling the burden of fixing the human condition really leapt out to me. Lately, conditions here in the US in particular have left me deeply troubled, along with the conditions I find within myself. Thanks for the comment. I hadn’t realized I was taking on the burden for fixing the human condition and the condition of the world that has resulted. It’s His burden. Not mine, not yours. I’d really like to remember this.
Giving Peterson credit for many things while also offering respectfull criticism on other things. A rare combination.
💯
Excellent! Praying for Jordan!
What a great combination! Thank you so much for sharing, insightful, and respectful. X 🙏🌸. God Bless you both.
Oh, my gosh! I saw that podcast of yours where you addressed Dr. Peterson with comments that you wanted to share with him, so I am so happy for you that you got to meet him. I love you both!
How can you? You're in love with the fabrication of a person that is delivered to you exactly as they wish to be portrayed! This tells you nothing about the actual person? You would have to have lived with them to get an inkling of that, it's no different from idolizing a soap star, Peterson will be nothing like the person he would have you believe he is, I can guarantee that, thanks.
Me too!!
@Mika Salakka Sarcasm is a poor substitute for intelligence.
@@andrewlilley3660 ssw
It is pretty clear from some of these comments that anyone who offers the least criticism of Peterson is shot down by his disciples, with inane snipes, this exemplifies how easily they are bamboozled!
No wonder Charlie Manson found it so easy.
Wonderful, thank you Gavin. I longed to be able to talk to Dr Peterson but I am now very satisfied by your interaction with him and your explanations, and of course the very serious consequences for him of the two women in his life who are not intellectuals. I was listening to Paul Kingsnorth very recently who was hounded down to faith against his will as was C.S. Lewis. God breaks in from the outside, its only by His grace, God bless you.
Yes, I agree with the divine hounding. There is that wonderful poem by Francis Thompson, 'the Hound of Heaven', which describes it so powerfully.
"I fled Him, down the nights and down the days;
I fled Him, down the arches of the years;
I fled Him, down the labyrinthine ways
Of my own mind; and in the midst of tears
I hid from Him, and under running laughter.
Up vistaed hopes I sped;
And shot, precipitated,
Adown Titanic glooms of chasmed fears,
From those strong Feet that followed, followed after.
But with unhurrying chase,
And unperturbed pace,
Deliberate speed, majestic instancy,
They beat - and a Voice beat
More instant than the Feet -
'All things betray thee, who betrayest Me'......
Not a believer but you have the loveliest voice and sweetest face - thank you for engaging me.
Thank you for your kindness. Great to have your company here.
Why is there something rather than nothing? Key question. Thanks for this great summary.
Even if there were nothing, you still wouldn’t be satisfied, would you?
@@TP-om8of a bit
Deep wisdom and breadth of learning on display here.
Bears repeated listening. 👏❤️
Thank you… I’ve leaned so much on RUclips. I don’t think we really comprehend how revolutionary it is. People like you infuse it with a richness of knowledge
Just a shame they only tolerate a certain viewpoint or discussion? The fact that Peterson's and the like are not censored? Well, this tells me that his views are encouraged by the mainstream media, so I don't think he is as wholesome as many would like to believe!
@@andrewlilley3660 everything is not a big conspiracy
@@skumflum3768 Those are your words not mine, I never mentioned conspiracy! I just take exception to your adulation of youtube? It is only revolutionary in that it is a propaganda tool first and foremost.
Peterson has his popular villains for instance, but none of these are from victors of the two world wars? I wonder why these are never mentioned? he has so many to choose from! so this in itself is a very strong indication he is something of a shill, thanks.
@@andrewlilley3660 if you read carefully I’ve never wrote anything about JP (I have my opinion) it’s RUclips as a technology. Never in the history of mankind could a video or spoken word have the longevity like a book and without bandwidth limitations. It can be utilized for cute dog videos, unpacking videos, lectures and interviews. If you don’t think this is a revolution you are not thinking
@@skumflum3768 I don't dispute that it can be educational, but the pets videos are truly vomit inducing, in my opinion!
It's primary function though is the manipulation of society, if you can't see that then you're not thinking.
Thank you for sharing your experience with Jordan Peterson!
Dr G Ashenden, your speech is so proper and so delightful! I adore your tone! Blessings from USA!
I was surprised and glad to see the Cambridge union welcome J Peterson back and really grateful to to be able to watch the YT video of his talk yesterday. Thankyou too for sharing your recollection of the talks with him afterwards and giving us some perspectives on the way he has helped many, me at least - understand this whole existence/ reality thing.
Thankyou.
Yes, it's very very good news!
Many thanks Dr Ashenden for your refutation of comparatively lumping Christianity in with all other religions, namely, the 1000 year witness of prophets taken by the collar against their will, as it were, to convey God's revelation "breaking in" on us. I had not heard this ever articulated so clearly as to how we Christians stand apart from all other religions in this respect. I'll have to consider this vis-à-vis Hinduisn, which curiously seems to possess a profound sense of incarnation.
An absolutely brilliant podcast Gavin. Your discuss with Peterson was right on the money.Peterson must stand humbled before the cross, it is the only answer to the problem of evil. Glad to know his wife and daughter are both Christians. He is not far from the kingdom.
Thank you David. A compliment from you is a compliment indeed. I’m very grateful.
'Peterson must stand humbled before the cross?'
Such a dictatorial comment from a person that practises such an apparent benign religion doesn't seem quite right?
Those words you have written belong in the vocabulary of a cult.
@@charliefinley13 David Virtue likely has a point, though his wording ("Peterson MUST") seemed like it was full of his own ego --> as in "I know what JP must do".
Only God knows what we should do; all of us humans are just doing our best, praying to God for directions & praying that what we do is good.
We are all sinners & thinking we know what is best (lack of humility) is often our/ my most tenacious sin.
@@charliefinley13 Your reaction against "must" indicates that you are power-oriented, a mentality which Dr. Ashenden wisely associates with the Woke. Within the hierarchical reality, in which love, truth and freedom can flourish, "must" is a simple statement of fact, not the command of a dictator. And being "humbled" before the Cross is not abasement, it is as natural as being humbled by the magnificence of the night sky. It is true-hearted response to Infinite Love, beyond all pride, self-will and ego.
@@mondopinion3777 I agree with Charlie. The person saying “must” is the one with the problem. I believe in our society we have certain religious freedoms. There is no “must” about it.
Dr G Ashenden, you have a nice face, and I like how you show respect for our beloved Jordan Peterson.
I admire, respect and like him very much.
To be fair, I am sure he was honoured to meet with you - would be great to see you have a proper 121 on camera / podcast
I was really one of the least impressive there. I was privileged to be amongst some very clever and very faithful people.
Thank you for this!
Hi, first time visitor who really enjoyed your video, the content was great food for thought and with your eyes of the most unique colour, that was really something. Thank you. I have recently started going to church and I'm so excited to hear about Jesus. I've always valued truth and when the modern, dark, social movements came I sort an external light to guide me and that led me to a loving church and a journey of discovery. Your video affirmed that I'm on the right path and there's so much more to learn. Thank you.
What a lovely comment. Wishing you well on your journey.
Amen. I am glad to have stumbled upon your insight concerning JP, as I have recently been guided to listen to his materials available online. As a former bricklayer/entrepreneur turned filmmaker by God’s Grace having been born again by His Spirit, I know the life changing power that is miraculous. Thank you for taking the time to make this recording, God bless you real good 👍 🙏😎
Good to meet you here Mark. What a fantastic journey you have been on.
@@DrGAshenden thank you for your reply and encouragement. I have passed your video on to a Catholic friend who has himself passed on to many others. God bless you and your family 👍
I love the "God bless you real good" wish. Wish the same for you, Mark!
@@soniavadnjal7553 bless you 🙏
Gavin I'm going to put the link onto this onto my face book and I'll also send it to two of my sons. This is you at your very best. JP has certainly fired you up.
Thank you. Much appreciated.
Yep, without Dr. Peterson's efforts I think we will be truly lost.c🙃🙏👍❤
God bless you
Fantastic explanation of a human search for God!
Every item reported is so clear and to the kern!
👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻
wow.....love this. as a orthodox christian i would love to dialog with Jordan peterson
Wow, that's an interesting lecture. I'm glad I stumbled upon this. God bless!
Your user name is Polish? I understand a little bit not all. What does it mean? Is it to do with freedom? You are free, have been freed? To love? Would appreciate a translation.
@@soniavadnjal7553 It's a Biblical line, "set free for freedom (by Christ)". I also have an English one I'm writing from right now:)
How marvelous to be given the opportunity to witness somebody being witness to whether that person accepts it or not is for Peterson to know.
Dr. Peterson's clips are my No. 1 choice whenever i feel that my mind is mingled. His contribution on keeping people like me in sanity and looking up has been tremendous to which I'm forever grateful. On the one hand i honestly felt that Dr. Peterson has fought the good fight, on the other hand i wish him to go from strength to strength, purely out of my own selfishness.
I really enjoy watching Dr. Peterson wrestle with God. I am so happy to hear truth and not religious saying without depth to back them up,,,,,,lets cheer for anyone who is a truth seeker. Dr. Gavin Ashenden has a kind spirit and I like hearing his analysis.
Many thanks as listening to you helps to feed my faith 🙏 happy Christmas 🎄
Really enjoyed this discussion. Will listen again. I’ve been looking for this kind of a review for a long time. Thank you.
You are so interesting and I just wish I had people like you in my life with whom to carry discussions even if only very occasionally 💕 it's so motivating to know that other humans wish to discuss so deeply also, it's just that for many like myself I suspect, there's no one in our environment that's remotely interested.
The great thing about the internet is that it allows us some access to one anothers' lives in constructive ways if we choose.to treat each other gently with with dignity.
Unconditional love respect and gratitude. You are the rosé 🌹
Bless you - thank you.
Time is now. Against satanic mills Jerusalem English patriot song.
I am very pleased to hear you had this opportunity Dr Ashenden, I believe I have heard JP mention that he is aware of the dangers he is subject to in being lionised as a hero archetype. I think he may have said it contributed in some sense to the dreadful I'll health he suffered.
Wonderful. Very much appreciated.
An amazing human being - Mr Petersen - thanks for the video
Wonderful talk! Thank you! In the case of Dr Peterson, I wonder if some people have to stand on the threshold, so to speak, so as not to alienate those who might be put off by the few who have crossed into a realm of faith, which is, well, scary, to so many people. Especially those who have reached the end of SHS (self-help syndrome), like myself, for instance. I am astounded by the call to surrender, as I think Dr. Peterson is as well, 'but, but, but," in a Salman Rushdie sort of way, I don't want to be too far away from the door, so to be close enough reach back--which is an old, rough definition of the Latin word "religio," if I'm remembering correctly.
Thank you…….excellent stuff
Nice to hear that Jordan Peterson and Rupert Sheldrake have spoken. Hope to see a podcast!
Fabulous!
Fantastic🔥🔥
God bless you both
Thank you, I learn so much from you Dr. By the way you need to have Jordans name in your titles more often...it will bring more people to your videos. That would be a blessing
The good Lord seems to have a habit of throwing high-calibre Christians in JPs way. 'The Hound of Heaven' is chasing him.
Hopefully this will result in a Dr Ashenden on the JBP Podcast!
This is insightful and enlightening for me.
Hurrah! Finally!
Yesss!
Wow. You are making me reconsider.. always a fan of Jesus.
Thank you for sharing this.
The work of evangelizing is primarily the work of converting ourselves so that we can be true witnesses to the reality of Jesus Christ. I am confident that the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to reach Jordan Peterson since he is apparently a true seeker of Truth. Dr. Ashenden’s journey and Dr. Petersen’s journey show us that intelligence and public acclaim do not bring Christ’s peace. The gift of faith leads to peace when one is authentically open and humble.
very good commentary, thank you
Gavin I’m so happy that Jordan Peterson finally got to meet YOU!
Greatly enjoyed the depth of your knowledge.
Thanks Dr this gives me hope. Viva Cristo Rey. ✡️✝️🙏🇨🇦😘💠
Peterson is a truly great man.....you can't say that about many.
First time I saw you. I thought, okay this is guy is a bit far from me. I saw you as like Billy Graham as you mentioned recently. But now I get you a bit clearer. There is a triangulation necessary or a dissolution of those numerous points which are obstacles to seeing.
So, keep it up and God bless your work
Very perceptive - and open-minded - for which many thanks.
I'd love to ask Jordan Peterson about Chesterton. He's read C.S. Lewis' works, but Chesterton is on a higher level. I think he would be challenged.
Also, a conversation between Douglas Wilson and Jordan Peterson would be awesome.
Wonderful, God bless!
Hello Telemarq..
@@vixendixon6943 Hi Vixon, lovely to hear from you :)
@@telemarq7481 I probably won't get the chance so "I wish you a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year" here and now. Take care.
@@vixendixon6943 Merry quimblie to you too!
☀️💛He Who Is Love, is worth dying for 🌹
Thank you!
I want to hear someone go into depth about why the Jungian perspective is not deep enough or insufficient for a complete life. I'm always trying to surpass the greatest ideas that I feel beholden to at any given time. Anyone who can disabuse me of the Jungian perspective will have my eternal gratitude.
I'd like to help you, so I try. I just don't know anything about your Jungian perspective, which is surly less narrow then mine. I only make use of Jung`s typology. I am better at observing than at describing or building a theory. Jung's typology gives me words helping to describe what I observe and prioritize some details so I can construct relations between the different functions, sometimes even grasping a bit of sensing which most of the time is dimmed by my focus on intuition. I kind of bolster my weak thinking by using Jung's words and theory. Its useful, but its not what I hope for. Even if I'd learn to integrate feeling it wouldn't be what I hope: I would still stay within the confines of my mind. So I hope for someone overcoming the limits of my mind. This someone has to have no limits at all. It looks like Jesus being the one.
Very enjoyable, especially about forgiveness, same thing I suppose in AA about making Amens to people we have harmed, not only are we freed of Resentment but it can also free them of their Resentment to us, the Door can swing both ways, glad I didn't switch off when you mentioned Judo- Christianity. Marx, Trotsky, Stalin, all White Christian Family Haters.
Love your channel! Glad I found it.
Thank you.
I am a believer in Christ and i am what is called a full preterist in that i believe that Christs second coming took place with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD as He said it would . I am 68 years old and was brought up in the church of England but drifted away from it when i was a young teenager and had nothing more to do with religion till i tried to find God in my mid 50's. I started reading the bible for the first time and really threw myself body and soul into it up to now.
I started my road to faith in pentacostalism then went into the baptist denominations, flirted with the c of e again and even like Ashenden flirted with roman catholicism as my wife was raised one. All the denominations left me cold after 15 years. I then came across preterism that really cleared up all the reservations and questions i had about biblical faith.
Effectively if a person is a full preterist , or believe in the sort of preterism i do , christianity only existed during the ministry of Christ on earth ie during the period between his birth and his parousia around 70AD. The great flaw in the sort of theology that Mr Ashenden teaches were something he admitted quite subconciously in his opening remarks to this video. He said that he was a member of a small group of people who met Petersen and he had hoped to be able to CONVERT HIM.
The real achilles heal of christianity as it has existed for the last 2000 years and all other religions is that they insist that they have something that everyone else lacks. They preach that their flesh is more sanctified than other peoples flesh and that through this sanctification lies salvation. That denies what Christ completed 2000 years ago. When every human being born in the last 2000 years dies , God no longer even sees what they did in the flesh , He only sees and judges what is in the heart. This is the completed work of Christ. Science, religion and philosophy all deny this and try to find a "fig leaf" to cover their nakedness.
As Tyndale said " and of him that will not be saved by Christs merits but by the works of his own imagination we say " it is a holyworkman" both ashenden and petersen are "holyworkmen" whether they realize it or not.
Disclaimer: I paused the video on 22 minutes as I'm also cleaning the house right now so forgive me if I'm going to adress a point that could be mentioned later on in this video, though unlikely.
I've been following Peterson's development and his tip toeing around Christianity for a while now, it's absolutely fascinating.
To me it seems he is stuck in the intellectual side of it all.
He one time burst into tears about THE IDEA of Jesus, yet not about the living Jesus, as if the idea Jesus is an actual real living entity was a bridge too far.
It is as if he is dipping his toes in the water but reluctant to jump in, and I say this without any form of judgement, it's just an observation but I find watching this development of his fascinating.
Another aspect I'm missing in general whenever Jesus is discussed be it by laymen, scholars theologians or atheists is that the concept of the kingdom of heaven is almost always overlooked.
(I heard that N.T. Wright recently wrote a book about this topic and I have yet to read it.)
The nature of the kingdom of heaven seems to me to be an expression of the perfect state of being: how humans relate to God, and towards eachother, it is simultaneously transcending AND mondane; to be applied and persued in this life as well as in the next.
I don't perceive myself as a christian but as someone that tries to practice christianity on a daily basis.
There's people who focus on the crucifiction, Christ as the Redeemer, there's people who focus more on the teachings, but few seem to focus on the concept of the kingdom of heaven, and I think there's much more to it than a lot of people think, Jesus is the Saviour, yes, Jesus gave us His teachings as written down in the gospels, yes, but He was also a radical who gave us instructions in regards to the world we live in in this earthly life, and that seems to me to be often overlooked.
You indicated that humans can only take so much reality and that you have to be careful as to how much truth you can share with them. And so, those who seek the truth find themselves going down one rabbit hole after another. How lovely it would be if the truth in its entirety were disclosed to the masses.
A tear of joy, a tear of sorrow, each is a profound testimony to our personal condition, yet when brought together the fullness of the human narrative emerges as if to invoke the most prolific Love story in the history of the universe, one Authored exclusively by our Father in Heaven.
Why do we rejoice? Why do we weep? Why must we experience such emotion at all? Why is it that throughout history mankind has plucked the strings of the human heart to deliberately expose our shared human condition? Could the defining element of what it means to be human, also be the defining element of God?
Perhaps humankind expresses tears of joy and tears of sorrow because we are created in the likeness of our Creator. Could it be that our Father in Heaven shares His tears with us, tears humbly veiled within Holy Scripture and mankind’s history?
Consider for a moment the possibility that God our Heavenly Father indeed sheds such far reaching droplets of passion that Divine joy and sorrow emerge as if to articulate an extension of His Providence and sacrifice, all for the sake of His beloved children in this world. Would we then be obliged to listen? Would we then make the life changing commitment to connect with Him?
Your understanding is beyond profound- Thank you, and please share more.
I found your insight into Dr. Peterson to be enlightening. I’ve often wondered why he is so resistant to ‘taking the plunge’ of committing to Christ. Sometimes I think he’s too smart for his own good.
Cathy Newman is possessed as surely as JB is possessed; by his incredible intellect …which will never allow him bow to anyone!
Really enjoyable talk even though I don’t have the education understand it all !
Join the club👍
I appreciate your honesty
Personally I think if Peterson got in touch with his inner peasant he would find a short path to God, one in which life and death come into focus much more quickly and the need for salvation is a daily obvious thing. I think for many academia becomes a fascinating and distracting noise, an exercise of the mind that grinds on and on but misses the most vital thing, which is God. One also sees this in many "high achievers" where hours and hours are spent on great efforts to accomplish a goal to the exclusion of everything else. Noise is what it is. Noise can be almost anything, it depends on what attracts us personally. It may be art, mathematics, science, sex, TV, philosophy, history, music, drugs, it can even be worry. Little gods in a sense.
"Inner peasant" sorry could you flesh that out more, What do you mean by that?
@@triplea6174 A peasant lives close to the land and depends on and confronts all sorts of unpredictable things all the time. They stay focused on rain, drought, crop failures, stillbirths, regular births, burying the dead. In short, classroom time and instruction is "in the field" hands-on, on-the-job and the basic question of the existence of God is addressable much more immediately and much more necessarily. That question is also answered more quickly, assuming one even had to ask, since the answer is obvious to most.
Such an existence where life and death of loved ones and danger is on-going forces one to focus on what is real. In such focusing one makes growth in the spiritual life, and indeed can come into contact with God and may find the Jesus Christ guy is actually who He said He was and IS.
To see certain fine art one should visit a museum, to see God, one must make the God trip. It is not theoretical.
Anyone who thinks He has to prove to himself that God exists is already in trouble since we don't tell Him what to do, nor how to prove it, and that's the point. His rules. God is not found in deep thinking in text books He is more accessible than that.
We find God the same way He made us, one -on-one. Peterson needs to understand he has to surrender. Peasants know that when waiting for rain and everything else.
He is on the right track, mostly, but he needs to go further, to evolve into the peasant. Humility before the Divine.
excellent expose. many thanks.
It’s very helpful hearing the tools of democracy’s enemies, the inversion and contortion of vocabulary, being clarified. I seem to hear Nihilism being referred to, but when it’s pronounced in an unconventional way, it’s missed.
Thank you for those words ,Jordan Peterson does seem to be on a path to Jesus Christ..God bless .
Dr. Ashenden has soothing voice.
Epic! So happy.
Great, thanks Gavin.
I am beginning to think more and more, that Mr Peterson has come through his dark night with a ball and chain which he drags with him, which is deep routed pride for having pulled himself up out of the Slough of Despond. I have much respect for him; he is more of a man then I will ever be and he seems to doing a lot of good. We both know that without The Spirt of God in it, no matter how eloquent it sounds, it will come to nothing. Because Mr Peterson is a celebrity, many of us Catholics have hero worshipped him ( Guilty!) There are, I am sure, a few Spirit lead Petersons in the Catholic Church, Would you not agree, Jordan; Oops ! Freudian Slip, I mean Gavin. 😊
Keep the good work up sir.
John
Moving past the F - slip- .... yes ;)
Its almost Christmas Fr Gavin...will you post again ? A homily perhaps...to help us through ?
Coming up shortly.....with God's help.
Jordan Peterson is in a very dangerous situation. He has discovered enough to get powerful insights into truth of scripture and of God, but is holding off on stepping across the line to meet the authour of the book. If he remains in his current state he most likely will be the founder of the next cult and lead a great many people astray. Pray not only for him but for those who follow him!
I think he has experienced the grace, there is no way, he will "wonder off". Wise and sensitive, knowing The Truth, he will grab It, and never let It go.
@@jolayolka9323 if you read the parable of the sower you will see that not everyone who is exposed to the truth ends up remaining there. Many people are more enamored with their own intellect and autonomy than they are willing to give control to anyone else. Peterson has my prayers and support but he is nobody's saviour.
Faith or belief can't be forced,
@@soniavadnjal7553 it is never forced. Everybody chooses what they believe. Everybody believes what they choose.
there are Black and White chess pieces on a chest board
each playing a part in a game.
Spot on
Perhaps JBP can do more good outside the fold than in. Simone Weil felt that to be true in her own case.
This was also said of CS Lewis and Brother Roger of Taize.
3 Hail Marys for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻 that you may continue doing the Lord's work ✝️
and for Jordan Peterson 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻 that Our Lady may obtain for him the grace of conversion 📿
I can wager with pretty good certainty that those who wish to hear what Jordan Peterson had to say we'll go to his invaluable videos and talks and lectures and actually listen to what the man himself has to say
That was totally absorbing thank you so much , when Jordan Peterson became very ill I did jump to the thought about Job and being touched in the flesh …..do you think God actually allowed him to be touched in the flesh in this way , when we are taken to the point of death but do not die then a spiritual awakening happens
There is no better story, especially in old age like me. Truth can't be false and true at the same time. Christ is our eternal King. Who would want it any other way?
Gavin, many thanks for this video and your reflections on Jordan Peterson. I admire his boldness, intelligence and what he has been doing to help people with their challenges, including lack of meaning and experienced confusion. But as you do see the limitations of his approach. JP seem to me, even if he criticises scientism, a child of scientism who has not yet grown out of this "sickness" of childhood towards more mature understanding of reality. His constant references to Jungian psychology, with all its thought provoking knowledge and insights on human behaviour, and equally numerous references to evolutionary biology, create a platform to reach out to scientifically minded audience but also constitute his limitation. He perhaps evolves from reductionist scientism towards more comprehensive view of the world, but still with one leg is there. A good example is misreading of the Revelation as psychedelic experience. He apparently does not have knowledge and experience of mysticism, spiritual experience of encounter with transcendent God whose greatness we can only not by traces in nature and fully in Jesus Christ. The kind of experience fathers of the desert had and other mystics. Will St. John of the Cross be also classified by JP as sb having psychedelic experience ?
He referrers often to Auschwitz and Gulag experience which is very important for his message. I met personally Victor Frankl, a psychoanalysts and psychiatrist from Vienna, who developed a new psychotherapeutic school called LOGOTHERAPY where one of the the key aspects was to help people to discover sense (meaning) of their lives. Logotherapy i.e. the therapy of meaning, as in finding meaning in one’s life, as Frankl approached it (1929) recognizes "three possible ways to find meaning in life: a deed we do or a work we create; a meaningful human encounter, particularly one involving love; and choosing one’s attitude in the face of unavoidable suffering. Logotherapy eventually became known as the third school of Viennese psychotherapy, after Freud’s psychoanalysis and Adler’s individual psychology." Frankl lived through the experience of concentration camp. His books "Homo patiens" , "A man searching for meaning" issued many years ago keep to be a great inspiration for many. (see summary of Frankl work here:socialsci.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Psychology/Book%3A_Personality_Theory_in_a_Cultural_Context_(Kelland)/09%3A_Viktor_Frankl_Rollo_May_and_Existential_Psychology/9.03%3A_Viktor_Frankl_and_Logotherapy )
Thanks for all what you said and reflected upon and your generous words about JP.
Eureka, Dr A!
The problem I have with Dr Peterson rejection of dogma is that he acts as if they came out of nowhere. He acts like they are completely arbitrary and thus reverts to a rather base secular criticism of it. He can talk about a hierarchy of values and archetypes, but then seems to reject dogmas as something that just hover above this without any underlying structure preceding them. I think we need a critical distance from his ideas.
Yes, I agree in part. He is anxious about truth reduced to propositional statements.. But I think if pressed he might agree that he is anxious with how people use axioms rather than the axioms or dogma themselves.
@@DrGAshenden This could very well be true. Thank you kindly for the reply. God bless.
Collective individually . Wow , like a well functioning crew . Each member with their own set of skills coming together to create a masterpiece of labor . I find it repulsive to think of those that understand how and why the need for diversity in individuality in skills and attributes are needed in the work place , but don't understand the need in a well functioning society to except our differences and build on them . Automation , Advances in modern convenience , competitiveness and Unions are not evil , but the way we choose to apply them can be .
Dr Ashenden, a small correction for your listeners: The heresy that at 38:00 you refer to in speaking of JBP, I think you mean "Pelagianism" rather than Arianism
Yes indeed. You are quite right. I was beginning with Arianism because Peterson's 'lower' view of who Jesus is compares to Arius, but I failed to get on to Pelagius who as you rightly point out was (in)famous for articulating the view that self-improvement was sufficiently possible.