'09 Jeep Grand Cherokee - Tach & Speedometer Cut Out
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- Опубликовано: 13 янв 2024
- In this video I have a look at a customers 2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee that has a customer complaint that the tachometer and speedometer cut out and drop to zero then turn right back on. It has a lot of "U" codes in it for an issue on the CAN B data bus. Let's have a look and see what we can figure out.
-Enjoy!
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I know it seems there is a lot of talking in this video but that is how the cookie crumbles with a lot of diags. First you have to duplicate the customers problem, learn and understand code set criteria and system operation, identify and locate system components, plan the work then work the plan. The majority of that time is spent in front of a screen to be honest. After that you carry out your tests and analyze the results either solving the problem or using that gathered data to come with another set of tests. It's boring to most but it the only efficient way to problem solve. Sure you could rip and tear and get lucky once in a while but I think this is a pretty solid approach. Hope it helps.
-Eric O.
Like I explained in the video the customer has had several different clusters in it and they all do the same thing. I think I also mentioned that the info the cluster is displaying is just bussed information plus I believe I also showed how I could see the data dropping in and out on the scan tool along with all of the communication codes. Sorry if I wasn't to clear on that. @@pkilam
Real world!!!!
Thanks Eric
fav kind of video, really.... is the new kid rebuilding engines yet?
@@pkilamwhy ask questions that eric spent the first 10 minutes of the video explaining. If the huge cardboard box overflowing with jeep clusters didnt get the point across. Cmon dude
Can you put some tape on your corroded thumb in the future? Some people eat while watching youtube videos. Thank you
The mirror image is because the CAN is a differential signal. Instead of the computer determining 1s and 0s from the voltage being a particular value, it looks at the *difference* in the voltages between the wires. That way, if something induces extra voltage in the line from RF interference-like an ignition pulse-it won't mess up the data because the same interference will be introduced to both wires. The absolute voltage on the wires may go up, but the difference between them will remain the same. That's also why the network wires are twisted: that way, the average distance from the noise source is the same for both wires, helping ensure that the noise adds the same voltage to both wires (instead of the more distant wire getting a little less induced voltage). Which is why maintaining the twist is important!
I was just about to say that.
Very true, the CAN buss is a balanced line driver circuit. The computer company that I worked for used those circuits back in the 1970s and were called “BDI” for balanced driver interface. Later replaced by Ethernet and later Fibre cable.
Yep, take the scope and hook one lead on the can hi and and ground lead on can low and that is the signal the ECU will be "seeing" cancelling out all interference
Eric great detective work. Enjoy your videos.
Great video Mr O
Quick question from the beginning trough 9:00 it seems like the image look like mirror but I see also like it has pull to ground?
That big red spike all way to the bottom.
Nothing boring about watching a craftsman at work Eric
I was the go-to guy for my family with car problems when I was young. Im now 77, and it just amazes me how damned complicated manufacturer's have made todays vehicles, and most of it is for features that were never really needed to actually make the vehicle function, like heated seats, etc. I guess thats how they justify the incredible price they charge for them. Eric amazes me with his patience when working on vehicles where the owner doesn't even clean the junk out of the vehicle before bringing it to him.
You a literally by far the best and most knowledgeable mechanic on RUclips
This is extremely similar to the situation I ran into with my 2006 Buick Lucerne; rear door locks stopped unlocking a couple days after I bought the car and I lived with it for a year before I started diagnosing it. (The way that the door lock system works on the Lucerne and the Cadillac DTS is that the front doors are controlled by the DDM and FPDM, but the rear doors are controlled directly by the BCM via relays and those relays live in the BEC underneath the rear seat.) channeling my inner Eric O, I started probing the relay socket to see which pin did what and found that the signal to fire the relay from the BCM was completely missing. So I traced the wire back to the connector in the BCM and found that the circuit was completely open. Now here is where I have to give the GM electrical engineers a Pat on the back: the BCM of the Lucerne and DTS has 7 connections coming into and out of it; 3 of those are for the harnesses from the instrument panel forward and the other 4 are for the body harnesses that run to the doors and the rear of the car. What they did was create a sub harness that took the 4 connectors coming out of the BCM and combined them into 2 30 pin flat connectors that interfaced with the body harness. What had happened is that the unlock pin on that sub harness had corroded in the same way as the gateway module in the video and the pin broke off but instead of being an intermittent connection, mine was completely open circuit. One trip to the local U-Pull-It for that sub harness and I had full functionality of my rear door locks restored!
One of the reasons I always like GM's there wirring always made sense to me and the sub harnesses are a joy because if there is an issue it's not like an Audi where you have to rip out the entire interior just to replace some wiring.
This sucks , I was already set up for a classic Jeep ground problem . Then you go and find the green crusty’s. Thanks for the adventure !
I think you did great. Bernie Thompson has a video made several years ago about Chrysler's different CAN circuits and how to test. It's over 3 hours long but well worth it. Good one Mr. O!
I'll have to go check that out. Thanks!
You are like the Sherlock Holmes of automotive electronics issues and problems. It is cool to watch you figure these things out.
Quite literally After Hours with Eric O! Looking forward to Part 2, you definitely went down all the rabbit holes with this one.
No rabbit holes in this one. Just logical approach.
@@SouthMainAutoI just meant the rabbit holes of pulling the fuses for every other module before going to the unit under the hood, you definitely eliminated all the other variables!
"The problem is always the last place you look" This is because after you find the problem you quit looking for it. Great videos Eric.
Mr O You always make a nightmare look like child's play.
I'm always impressed.
As the “mechanic” that cares for my wife’s 2016 Dodge GC it never ceases to amaze what can go wrong with TIPM modules and the surrounding wires. Watching from Nova Scotia rust bowl of Canada.
Great work Eric O :)
Rust belt is Ontario lol
A real diagnostic technician is priceless! Can you move your business to my city? Thanks pal for all you do.
That wrench, you have to flip it over for metric.
I had a metric adj. wrench once & at the 11 setting, I could use it on a 7/16" nut! Really!!!
the lowly "crescent wrench" gets no respect on this channel. The adjustable spanner was invented in the early 1800's in Britain by the same engineer who invented the push lawnmower.
I always store it next to my metric hammer. Always annoying when I lose them.
Eric, as a former engineering tech and product line trouble shooter, I enjoy watching your vids. Between your experience and approach, you've got a real talent. I wonder if the intermittent nature of this problem subconsciously influenced your approach. Of coarse this is all hindsight. Great job Eric.
You caught my "eye" when you said "they both have a delta of four volts". Don't think I've ever hear you use that term ("delta") before, and it brought a smile to my face. It's an uncommon yet useful term that I am fond of. Thank you, sir.
As much as i want to leave my work at work, I'm always thinking about cars I'm working on or future jobs. I see we are similar in that nature but your a legend my guy. Your teaching me more than 2 years of tech school could. Keep doing what your doing but only if it makes you happy.
Thanks for talking us through your analytical and detective skills and finding the problem, not many shops would do this on an older vehicle. I liked your de pinning of the connector and clean up, again not many would attempt this, well done.
Look forward to part 2, suspect Wilbur might be getting a visit.
Love your hunting down procedures for the fault .and you have learned something new to isolate the supply to the modules 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Sitting in a Buffalo snow storm at home. Bills game postponed till tomorrow and Mr O drops a vid. Thanks bud👍
Great diagnosis… keep breaking the system down. My question is, why does it seem that the last checked is the culprit. Keep up the good work, we are always eager to learn something from your videos.
I'm become addicted to your channel Eric!
I love the running commentary, great explanation of what you are thinking and doing (even when it leads you down the wrong path). Then rethinking and reapproaching the issue from a different angle.
Great stuff as usual. If Mrs O watches this video, I suspect your next sliver will be the most painful yet !!!
Hi Eric, don't sell yourself short, your diagnostic skills are top shelf!! Good job man!
Your diagnostic knowledge and patience are truly amazing. I am not a mechanic ( quite the contrary) but find it so interesting watching you solve the most intricate problems. You are truly appreciated.
I totally agree with 🫵 my friend!! 👍👍 I would be lost!
The problem is discovered in the last thing you check, but sometimes, like in this one, it's about the last thing you had left to check. Always enjoy watching SMA videos!
Boring, never! Loved every minute of it. Great job as always.
Having an 07 Jeep GC, I find this very useful!!
Warming up after freezing from feeding the livestock. Miss summer. Glad for a South Main Auto vid!
Very often I have had jobs like this and I have left them alone until everyone else has gone home, the phone's stopped ringing, and with no customers about. You can then "think and analyse" in a much more productive way without any distractions. And exactly like you in this scenario, its usually the very last thing you check and test before you find the cause of the troubles, thanks to Mr Sod and his law's.
Looking forward to the next thrilling installment.
Many thanks
David in the UK.
That Jeep has more codes on it than a brand new Land Rover has coming down the assembly line .
😂
😂got some history codes I guess sitting at the dealer
Funny but probably true 😂
That crescent wrench was absolutely a metric wrench. You can tell by the orientation of the thumb screw.
You always right Eric uncle Berny is the head of mechanics teachers in this industry there is nobody’s like him .
I have been watching every single video that he have for a lot of years .
Are prayers for uncle Beny so we can have him for a lot of years to come .
Excellent strategy to figure out the culprit, on this weird problem. Will be waiting for Part 2 :-)
Always an excellent diagnostic procedure.
Miss the vids Mr. O, will folks ever learn to test and not guess ? If it’s wonky and you’re just not sure, same yourself some time, money and frustration. Call the one and only Dr. O for the fix, please.
I try to put out several a week. That is about the best I can do and still live a semi-normal life haha
@@SouthMainAuto And we appreciate any and all…..have to have some normalcy in life
One thing about the CAN bus. It's like the old telephone party lines. Every module on the bus will both send, and receive, over that same pair of lines, and every other module listens in. So until you pull the plug on all of the modules you will continue to see activity. Every module likes to send out reports. So, when isolating the troublesome module, you're not looking for an end to the signals. You're looking for the one that no longer sends unbalanced signals.
There IS a lot of talking, yes, but this is classroom stuff not an action adventure movie. If I had a shop teacher like you in high school I would have been a mechanic instead of a carpenter. Thanks for sharing the knowledge Eric!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I scored a metric flat head screwdriver at a flea market once. That was a great day.
Yes I'll be watching for part 2. I'm interested if that module is plug and play. I have a 10 Chrysler TC with the speedo completely inop and sometimes lost the whole cluster. That module actually had water dripping out of it. Ma Mopar ( or what's left of her) said the module was n/a. We use LKQ auto salvage here in IL, which is nation wide. According to them, the module is not plug and play, it needs to be programmed. Take that with a grain of salt. We've had really bad weather here, and I'm still waiting on the part.
Eric, you've done it again! Great detective work! Also makes me glad I don't live in salty roads and high humidity country! Kudos from the high desert!
“Conscientious” and “Thorough” are two (2) Words which Consistently come to mind while watching videos on your channel. Very Impressive. Thanks! 👍🙏
Thank you so much for your input Eric very helpful and knowledgeable to watch you figure this stuff out. Your loyal viewer thank you so much
Hope you have a wonderful year happy new year
Thanks for the informative video! Excellent troubleshooting. Yeah, let's place the gateway right next to the corrosive battery 😮
When it comes to electrical issues slow is the Way to go and the more you can learn about the system the better off you are.
Eric you have saved some people thousands of dollars I know it and so do you you’re worth every penny to become a member of your channel !!!
But you can rest, assured if I get one in the garage, that the tachometer and Speedo are doing that i’m going to get a hard look at them connectors.
Saves the customer money and me time. Thank you again.
Your loyal fan Billy G
Eric, Fine Job! I do my best work in the shop after hours also. No distractions. And This Video is exactly why SMA is one one my favorite channels. Like your banter. and your demenor. Thank you!
Eric!! We NEED a part two! I love it when you go to Wilbert’s.
I woulda never guessed Mrs O had a mean streak... Thx Eric.
I ALWAYS enjoy your content, Eric, and appreciate your simple diagnosis process. Thanks as always!
Do not be so apologetic about the process Eric. We are all here to see exactly how you end up at the fix. Sometimes you have to spend a lot of time just eliminating possibilities. I look forward to the resolution.
You don't go to school to learn. You go to school to learn how to learn. You have it down pat. You can use any source to get your answer. As long as you get the answer. I was taught to use the wiggle test first. Kinda hard to even find those plugs first. So the fuse method became my first method. You classify as a genius. Mainly because you know how to find answers in so many fields. Its your logic that makes you so good at what you do. Thank you for teaching.
Might be boring for some, not for me i love these video's just as much as the others. Great diag Eric O!!!! learn something new everytime
That comment about the crescent wrench is classic. Love your videos.
These diagnostic videos are definitely my favorite. Using the parts cannon method on this type of problem can get very expensive very quickly. That module will be pricey enough on its own. Great troubleshooting. When I was in US Navy electronics schools they called the parts cannon "Easter Egging" "Don't easter egg that boy, troubleshoot!
Your skills are amazing - you should e-publish a handbook that chronicals your use of self-generated "logic trails" as those are priceless and better than any published guides that I am familiar with ... Best always to you and Mrs. O.
Yes he should write a book. I'm sure it would be required reading in Vo Tech schools all over the country.
Cant believe you assumed that pins identity...lol. Man, Eric O, you have MAD patience doing these kids of diags.
Great diagnose Eric and great idea connecting to the can in the seat module
That TYPE of CAN bus is called by several names.
Low speed CAN.
FT (Fault tolerant) CAN.
Its the original version of "differential bus" CAN used in automotive applications and operates at about 10 times lower the speed for non critical systems. The voltage levels for that standard are derived from industrial RS485 specs.
Single wire mode is when one of the lines is completely disconnected and allows the network to stay alive 😁
Amazing job!! Please do a Part 2. Excellent job as always!!
Thanks, I always like to to start the day with a SMA video. I learned a lot, as I always do.
As a non pro diyer I can do a fair amount of mechical type fixes but electrical problems are not my fortay. The way you explain how to break down and follow each circuit is very clear and super helpful. Thank you.
I am amazed and mesmerized by your thought process and what not. Thank you so much for taking us along!! Good to see you again, was starting to get worried!
Your patience is amazing.
Sweet diag! I always learn something from watching you fix cars. By the way all my crescent wrenches are SAE.
I like the process of elimination approach to the modules. What a find.
I love when you say "the big three seven". On another car you said "the big one five" and that gave me a chuckle.
I like these videos because you get involved and anxious if the next fuse or wire is going to be the next one that fixes it. Only a good Sherlock keeps you interested.
Great case study. I like the way you methodically go through the process of elimination to come to the answer. You are right about Bernie Thompson. That guy is on another level when it comes to diagnosing and scope usage. I love his videos as well but a lot of it is over my head when it comes to interpreting what he sees on scope captures.
Eric, between you and Ivan, you two are my go-to guys for diagnosing an issue.
Keep up the good work.
THANKS ERIC! I look forward to each and every video. Have a safe and prosperous 2024.
Love these videos. Awesome work Eric. 😎😎😎😎
So glad to have a video today. Thanks Eric. Having a bad day. I even cross threaded the cap on the milk bottle this morning.
Glad to see all the searching and searching and lots more searching and ends up being the last one thing you would not ever thinking it would be enjoyable to watch all you do to get them rides rolling
That was fun to follow along! I was right up next to my screen trying to see whats happening. Love your electrical trouble shooting vlogs
Superb powers of deduction Professor O. Accessing the CAN bus through the seat connector was a good trick to learn. Thanks for bringing us along. I will be on pins & needles for a part 2.
Always good to see how you solve problems.
Well done my good man.
You “if I can do it, you can do it” but I don’t have the scan tool, pico (sp???) or experience (to understand all the different modules and codes) but I do love trying to solve problems like this! Appreciate you taking the time to video this and take us along for the journey.
I was taught that to learn something, you need to watch and listen to what's happening in order to get the knowledge needed . love watching your videos Eric. keep doing what your doing. I've learned a lot about diagnosing vehicles and I don't even work on cars for a living except what needs done with my ability on my own cars
Great comprehensive explanation.......you just keep on yappin, we'll all just keep on watching and learning.
Another great and informative video..thanks Eric! I hate working on something someone else has already tore into! Much respect!
Eric, it is because of you that I operate the way I do now. I'll bet, I am going to learn something that I will use like you said at the beginning of this video. GREAT VIDEO!
You have plenty of action videos, you're about repair not sports so this is a huge help for those that need this knowledge. Rock on, brother man!
I'm wondering if you will put any di-electric grease in those connectors to give them more of a fighting chance in the future.
Saw part 2 first, still wanted to see this one. 👍
U R special to us viewers Mr.O!!Amazing video sir.
Nice job Mr O. Hoping to see PT 2
My old school brain said..bad/loose ground, cluster 8n that order.
New school me,always adds no-lox/bulb/dielectric grease to every wire I touch ....new or used.
Excellent job!
That was some technical stuff with more acronyms than a government entity like the FAA. Good stuff to follow along with. If it wasn’t for talkies it wouldn’t work Mr O. Keep up what you do just like you always do. Looking forward to the repair part now. As always “ Thanks for posting yet another great video” !
Sold. That awesome diagnostic approach has convinced me to invest in a one channel simple oscilloscope.
Another fine video you post, Mr. O. If you do part 2, I would be happy to know your customer likes your work.
Thanks Eric for sharing. Love your diag videos.
This type of video is really interesting to me. I really enjoy seeing how you determine what your plan A and a plan B is going to be and then how you navigate that process to a conclusion. 👍
I love to watch you do your diagnostic work and you are becoming an ad for DeioxiT ! Thank You for sharing your thought process and i wonder where the water in the back of that vehicle was coming from when you discovered it.
Excellent video and diagnosis Eric. I love these who done it movies.
You're a damn good mechanic keep up the good work
I had a Ford WinStar 2000 model did the same thing for years dancing gauges More than a half 1,000,000 miles on it, drove that thing for a long time. It served many families.
Thanks for the vid pop pop, I was startin to have withdrawls
WOW....Excellent Video Mr. O.
Happy new year!
as to the lot of talking i kinda like hearing your thought processes saves time and shows that you don't just focus on the supposed problem. you give every thought it's due diligence. keep right on doing it.