Im on my 2nd busy season and it's very clear that public accounting is not the place to be unless you are greedy as hell and want to stick to it till partner it's always best to get your CPA and do a few years to get the hell out as soon as possible. The work is as dirty as it gets and you get no recognition, no time for family, nothing not even good pay
Some of us think about the “payout” that would happen after 20 years. But if you have to wait 20 years the “payout” sounds more like back pay. So we bounce.
I earned my bachelor's at 35. I was not inexperienced in office settings, no stranger to long hours, and used to not feeling like I was paid what I was worth...BUT... the NEVERENDING busy season was too much.
I earned by BS at 30. I was in the military and like you, I was no stranger to being underpaid, stress, and long hours. I went through a couple rounds of interviews with firms and went to their socials. I identified very fast the culture was not a good fit for me. Fast forward 10(ish) yrs, I have worked with them a number of time (not for them), and my opinion has not changed. I call them grind-houses...they (they being the culture, not an individual mgr) don't actually care about you.
One of the problems is the pay. If you divide your salary by 70 hours per week, the fast food worker makes more money than you. The firm owners or partners are so greedy that they don’t want to pay their staff accountants overtime pay. I think if you start paying people overtime, then you’ll see the shortage won’t be as bad because employees know that even if the WLB sucks, at least they are properly compensated. Another problem is the firm is being disrespectful for expecting their staff accountants to put in 60-70 hrs per week. That means they don’t care about you, they don’t value their employees. The whole industry needs to change or stop this immoral unethical practice. No wonder, accountants leave in droves. And 20 years till partner, are you nuts???😂 That’s usury, taking advantage of people.
it’s ridiculous … & i honestly hate when these current/former partners or AICPA reps come on this podcast & say the things EVERYONE who has been in the industry already knows. Just regurgitating mouthpieces instead of actual action!
Accountants don't have overtime pay because it falls under the Professional exception (the same used for lawyers and doctors). The plus side to this is that it keeps it a bit guilded, but yeah, the downside to this is a pain.
@@fangzification I understand that they are under the category of Exempt/Professional. The difference is they don’t make nearly as much as doctors or lawyers. If they are truly treated as professionals like doctors or lawyers and not paid overtime, then they should at least get paid as much as these so called “professionals” for their highly specialized knowledge and skills. They are on billable hours right? Why not bill the clients however many hours it really takes to finish the project like how lawyers do it? It’s just an excuse saying that they are Exempt or Professionals, the truth is owners/partners just don’t want to pay them what they’re worth for the sake of their bottom line/pockets. And now it’s biting them on their behinds, the whole industry is suffering…accountants have been quitting the profession in droves. There is now a shortage of about 300K accountants/CPAs in the U.S. And what do they do instead of paying them appropriately, and solving the crisis? They are turning to mediocre counterparts abroad and paying them even lower. SMH. It’s pathetic! How low can you go!!! Greed greed greed…Karma is a 😂
This is a prime example of talking a-lot but saying nothing. They covered general issues that could cover many industries but I didn’t notice anything in depth or different than any other general info statement for the field of accounting and finance. Saying things like “people generally know what there getting into” is not a real informative way of diving into the conversation.
I’m loving the solutions with flexible hours and work from home options. It definitely helps the blow of working so many hours. It’s so cringy to hear employers fight to have accountants come in the office full time when COVID showed us it’s extremely possible to be successful remotely. Love this episode ❤
Two busy seasons isn't talked about enough - and it seems like it's gotten worse every year after COVID. I'm a Senior manager in tax and had been on the partner track but now looking to pivot to an industry or government position for better WLB. I feel like my entire year is either busy season or trying to take care of errands I didn't have time to do during busy season. I don't even have kids I have no idea how working parents in public accounting do it...
Go after people who have experience in very high stress jobs, think police, fire, EMS, military. Maybe it’s just me, I have military and EMS experience, but I’m making the career change into accounting and one of the reasons is the potential of decreased stress at the workplace, think: no life and death type of stress.
Lol. Depends on the industry, but I was always fascinated by how many Accounting Emergencies I’ve wasted my weekends on. Acctg is about as B&W as biz can get… there should NEVER be an Acctg emergency… it’s a red flag of upper mgmt.
CUNY Baruch class of ‘93 and a CPA… And nothings changed, huh. It was no secret back then that the Audit firms take advantage of these young grads - so I’m glad that they’re finally feeling the pain. My advice kids go to white collar industries like Finance, engineering, consulting, or aerospace, etc. Basically look for high margin companies bc otherwise you’ll be ask to do shady stuff all the time….(and never work for a closely held/family owned biz).
Public accounting will always be a flop because changing the current model to benefit/attract employees would imply less payouts to partners and that will never happen.
300,000 accountants left accounting during Covid. 70% of all CPA's are projected to retire this decade and the replacement rate is 1 to 5. Something will change my friend because there's about to be way to much business lost because there won't be enough employees.
@@KP-us1ldas someone who currently works in public audit outsourcing/AI is no threat,for at least a long time. The quality of work ends up being poor and we have to go in and correct it often which costs more time and billable hours. As for AI the software is still pretty far behind and it will be difficult to replace the profession because there are only some wps/information you can get by directly communicating with the client. It’s only supposed to help with the tedious tasks/data analytics side
That's why I don't support the idea that the market can regulate itself. There are times when government intervention is necessary because companies have proven they often prioritize profits over everything else.
I mean... let's be honest, it's the salaries. Work life balance has obviously been a talking point for decades in this profession. I have no problem pushing for the insane hours and high-pressure deadlines, but if my work-life balance is going to be non-existent, can I at least get paid enough to justify that? Sticking around for partner to eventually get that "pay off" when I'm 35-40 years old is a joke considering the landscape of our current economy. Thats why young people gravitate towards other opportunities and leave public accounting behind.
I have experience working oil and gas up north. One thing that I constantly saw was employers saying absolutely anything to get an employee and then not following through. This is the fastest way to burn through employees. Sn accounting example is work from home, or work-life balance promised in the interview, but then not following through. Then blame it on fit
In big 4 accounting firm and I've been in tax for more than 4 years, I am telling you it is not fun. I had to work days without sleeping and it is insane.
my friend, who is 23 years old, is graduating with a bachelor's in accounting from SFSU. He was offered ~95k for his first year at KPMG, in San Francisco. he has to meet several requirements to get this full amount, including passing the CPA exams before he begins in the Fall sometime.
I was always fascinated by how many Accounting Emergencies I’ve wasted my weekends on. Acctg is about as B&W as biz can get… there should never be an Acctg emergency… it’s a red flag of upper mgmt.
As a student currently pursuing accounting, often times the main reason I see people dropping out of accounting is because they simply don’t have the time to do the schooling. They work multiple jobs to keep themselves afloat, and can’t commit to going into school or finishing the degree. other classes that are unrelated to accounting, but that are required by schools to fill the humanities take up a lot of their time and leave little room for accounting. Accounting is tough to learn, it’s fun….but also boring compared to other classes.
Also, these recruiters keep saying that firms have increased the pay... let's not pretend like accountants can't tell the difference between nominal and real rates
Yeah they "increased the pay" by like $3k a year which is nothing😂 even starting at 72k a year is way to low for the amount of work and hours I have heard people work. 9am-1am for months would destroy me
Chasing the position of partner is like chasing a unicorn. Its not worth sticking out 15 years of torture because there is no 15 year rule its all about what the other partners think of you and a good dose of favourtism.
I am leaving public partly because of the lack of equity. With all this outsourcing my job is absolute shit not and I’m not reaping any of the benefits of outsourcing. That money goes directly into the partners pockets while Im the one that has to deal with the shitty staff from India
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Im on my 2nd busy season and it's very clear that public accounting is not the place to be unless you are greedy as hell and want to stick to it till partner it's always best to get your CPA and do a few years to get the hell out as soon as possible. The work is as dirty as it gets and you get no recognition, no time for family, nothing not even good pay
Thank you for sharing .🙏🏽
Some of us think about the “payout” that would happen after 20 years. But if you have to wait 20 years the “payout” sounds more like back pay. So we bounce.
I earned my bachelor's at 35. I was not inexperienced in office settings, no stranger to long hours, and used to not feeling like I was paid what I was worth...BUT... the NEVERENDING busy season was too much.
I earned by BS at 30. I was in the military and like you, I was no stranger to being underpaid, stress, and long hours. I went through a couple rounds of interviews with firms and went to their socials. I identified very fast the culture was not a good fit for me. Fast forward 10(ish) yrs, I have worked with them a number of time (not for them), and my opinion has not changed. I call them grind-houses...they (they being the culture, not an individual mgr) don't actually care about you.
Thank you for sharing .🙏🏽
One of the problems is the pay. If you divide your salary by 70 hours per week, the fast food worker makes more money than you. The firm owners or partners are so greedy that they don’t want to pay their staff accountants overtime pay. I think if you start paying people overtime, then you’ll see the shortage won’t be as bad because employees know that even if the WLB sucks, at least they are properly compensated. Another problem is the firm is being disrespectful for expecting their staff accountants to put in 60-70 hrs per week. That means they don’t care about you, they don’t value their employees. The whole industry needs to change or stop this immoral unethical practice. No wonder, accountants leave in droves. And 20 years till partner, are you nuts???😂 That’s usury, taking advantage of people.
it’s ridiculous … & i honestly hate when these current/former partners or AICPA reps come on this podcast & say the things EVERYONE who has been in the industry already knows. Just regurgitating mouthpieces instead of actual action!
Accountants don't have overtime pay because it falls under the Professional exception (the same used for lawyers and doctors). The plus side to this is that it keeps it a bit guilded, but yeah, the downside to this is a pain.
@@fangzification I understand that they are under the category of Exempt/Professional. The difference is they don’t make nearly as much as doctors or lawyers. If they are truly treated as professionals like doctors or lawyers and not paid overtime, then they should at least get paid as much as these so called “professionals” for their highly specialized knowledge and skills. They are on billable hours right? Why not bill the clients however many hours it really takes to finish the project like how lawyers do it? It’s just an excuse saying that they are Exempt or Professionals, the truth is owners/partners just don’t want to pay them what they’re worth for the sake of their bottom line/pockets. And now it’s biting them on their behinds, the whole industry is suffering…accountants have been quitting the profession in droves. There is now a shortage of about 300K accountants/CPAs in the U.S. And what do they do instead of paying them appropriately, and solving the crisis? They are turning to mediocre counterparts abroad and paying them even lower. SMH. It’s pathetic! How low can you go!!! Greed greed greed…Karma is a 😂
@@purepositivity7404 No disagreements there bud.
Now you know exactly what you are talking about 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 this comment needs a gold star!
This is a prime example of talking a-lot but saying nothing. They covered general issues that could cover many industries but I didn’t notice anything in depth or different than any other general info statement for the field of accounting and finance. Saying things like “people generally know what there getting into” is not a real informative way of diving into the conversation.
I’m loving the solutions with flexible hours and work from home options. It definitely helps the blow of working so many hours. It’s so cringy to hear employers fight to have accountants come in the office full time when COVID showed us it’s extremely possible to be successful remotely. Love this episode ❤
Two busy seasons isn't talked about enough - and it seems like it's gotten worse every year after COVID. I'm a Senior manager in tax and had been on the partner track but now looking to pivot to an industry or government position for better WLB.
I feel like my entire year is either busy season or trying to take care of errands I didn't have time to do during busy season. I don't even have kids I have no idea how working parents in public accounting do it...
Go after people who have experience in very high stress jobs, think police, fire, EMS, military. Maybe it’s just me, I have military and EMS experience, but I’m making the career change into accounting and one of the reasons is the potential of decreased stress at the workplace, think: no life and death type of stress.
Lol. Depends on the industry, but I was always fascinated by how many Accounting Emergencies I’ve wasted my weekends on. Acctg is about as B&W as biz can get… there should NEVER be an Acctg emergency… it’s a red flag of upper mgmt.
CUNY Baruch class of ‘93 and a CPA… And nothings changed, huh. It was no secret back then that the Audit firms take advantage of these young grads - so I’m glad that they’re finally feeling the pain. My advice kids go to white collar industries like Finance, engineering, consulting, or aerospace, etc. Basically look for high margin companies bc otherwise you’ll be ask to do shady stuff all the time….(and never work for a closely held/family owned biz).
I would say engineering not finance it has the same problems.
Public accounting will always be a flop because changing the current model to benefit/attract employees would imply less payouts to partners and that will never happen.
300,000 accountants left accounting during Covid. 70% of all CPA's are projected to retire this decade and the replacement rate is 1 to 5. Something will change my friend because there's about to be way to much business lost because there won't be enough employees.
@@DougieG7130 that change will be AI and outsourcing. Anything to retain profits.
@@KP-us1ldas someone who currently works in public audit outsourcing/AI is no threat,for at least a long time. The quality of work ends up being poor and we have to go in and correct it often which costs more time and billable hours. As for AI the software is still pretty far behind and it will be difficult to replace the profession because there are only some wps/information you can get by directly communicating with the client. It’s only supposed to help with the tedious tasks/data analytics side
@@user-fz5wl2se6c I can second this, outsourcing work is so bad I had to stay up and correct their work, I might as well do it myself
That's why I don't support the idea that the market can regulate itself. There are times when government intervention is necessary because companies have proven they often prioritize profits over everything else.
I mean... let's be honest, it's the salaries. Work life balance has obviously been a talking point for decades in this profession. I have no problem pushing for the insane hours and high-pressure deadlines, but if my work-life balance is going to be non-existent, can I at least get paid enough to justify that? Sticking around for partner to eventually get that "pay off" when I'm 35-40 years old is a joke considering the landscape of our current economy. Thats why young people gravitate towards other opportunities and leave public accounting behind.
I have experience working oil and gas up north. One thing that I constantly saw was employers saying absolutely anything to get an employee and then not following through. This is the fastest way to burn through employees. Sn accounting example is work from home, or work-life balance promised in the interview, but then not following through. Then blame it on fit
Good luck convincing me to ever go back to public accounting. I get paid more and only work 40 hours per week. You guys have fun with all that.
What field do you work in now?
He's so right, if u stick it out in public accounting it's rewarding. But long hours in your 20s is a hard pill to swallow
should public accountants go on strike?
In big 4 accounting firm and I've been in tax for more than 4 years, I am telling you it is not fun. I had to work days without sleeping and it is insane.
my friend, who is 23 years old, is graduating with a bachelor's in accounting from SFSU. He was offered ~95k for his first year at KPMG, in San Francisco. he has to meet several requirements to get this full amount, including passing the CPA exams before he begins in the Fall sometime.
I was always fascinated by how many Accounting Emergencies I’ve wasted my weekends on. Acctg is about as B&W as biz can get… there should never be an Acctg emergency… it’s a red flag of upper mgmt.
I'm a financial advisor, getting my bachelor's in accounting, with plans to get into FP&A. Any tips?
As a student currently pursuing accounting, often times the main reason I see people dropping out of accounting is because they simply don’t have the time to do the schooling. They work multiple jobs to keep themselves afloat, and can’t commit to going into school or finishing the degree. other classes that are unrelated to accounting, but that are required by schools to fill the humanities take up a lot of their time and leave little room for accounting. Accounting is tough to learn, it’s fun….but also boring compared to other classes.
the way the guy in plaid actually didn't answer so many of these questions and just used cute buzzwords and corporate jargon is wild
The pay isn’t good enough and the hours are too much
Great Video
Also, these recruiters keep saying that firms have increased the pay... let's not pretend like accountants can't tell the difference between nominal and real rates
Yeah they "increased the pay" by like $3k a year which is nothing😂 even starting at 72k a year is way to low for the amount of work and hours I have heard people work. 9am-1am for months would destroy me
I think there is a shortage all around because people have had less kids.
IPad kids don't like accounting either
I agree 100%
To hell with accounting join cyber security, make double with half the hours
Chasing the position of partner is like chasing a unicorn. Its not worth sticking out 15 years of torture because there is no 15 year rule its all about what the other partners think of you and a good dose of favourtism.
I am leaving public partly because of the lack of equity. With all this outsourcing my job is absolute shit not and I’m not reaping any of the benefits of outsourcing. That money goes directly into the partners pockets while Im the one that has to deal with the shitty staff from India
Increase flexibility
the CPA association wanted me to repeat all my accounting courses...Fuck accounting!
Turnover is higher in public accounting and business development isn’t that fun