How AMD is Making CPUs More Affordable - Chiplets Explained
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2019
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How could chiplets make CPUs both faster AND cheaper?
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3:05 "rumored upcomming 16 core CPU". From when is this video?
Probably a few weeks.
Goddamn my B450 Board will burn in Hell
@@RFLCPTR which one do you have?
Theres an upcoming b550 mb coming so that may be what I end up with when I swap from my i5 3570k to a Ryzen 3700x/3800x
@@Montisaquadeis
well... have a good time waiting until next year 😅
I already have to as there is to much going on this year to be able to afford a $1300-$1500 PC build to replace my m current one
For those wondering, the rumored 16 core cpu isn't a rumor anymore, it's been confirmed, this video was probably filmed before the announcement.
yeah, and people are getting triggered on the comments already. they need a chill pill xD
There's also the 12 core one, and it's more than likely that the 8 core parts are also made from 2 chiplets
@@picolete Pretty sure at CES when AMD first announced it all, the 8 core they used was one chip
Man, Now there's a 64 core threadripper
what is it
AMD and everyone else: "Putting multiple chiplets to form a CPU is good for the consumer AND the producer so it's the way forward!"
Nobody:
Intel: *Are you gLuiNg CPUs toghether?*
AMD uses China as their main resource for silicone and production. China employees get paid pennies a day at best for their job. The cost of production is China is stupidly cheap. Intel uses China as a secondary supporter their main producer is much more expensive. Mulitpule little chips also have many disadvantages to them. Heat and power are two concerns for chiplet designs and while they claim to save on cost its obvious when amds same 8 core 16 thread that performs almost the exact same as intels 9900k costs almost the same amount. So obviously cost was not saved or AMD is litterally just being greedy. Also why are amds new motherboards so stupidly expensive? Chiplets also reach the limit that silicone has very rapidly. Oh wait chiplet arent actually cheaper. Die to die interconnects can be very much pricey hmm interesting. The governments of the world have been using chiplets for decades though so it's no surprise despite it's mostly minimal downfalls it has so many upsides making it a better approach to cpus and more varieties overall. Added latency is another factor because of it. Looks like ryzen 3000 isnt even 7nm it's two 7nm on a 14nm io die..so basically it's a downgrade because of the cost of such a small die something many of us saw..the benefit however it increased clock speed on their chips and better overall performance.
This is a decent article here about the big advantages of chiplets and then the new major issue of using chiplets overall. www.extremetech.com/computing/290450-chiplets-are-both-solution-and-symptom-to-a-larger-problem
@@yulfine1688 Look, first of all who told you that AMD's 16 core CPU will perform the same as the intel i9-9900k?? That's so stupid!! And about your goverment bullshit you know goverments used to cut off your hand if you stole something for decades!! Does that mean it's totally fine to do so?? Plus what do you mean "single chips" are actually cheaper"?? Stop inventing stuff I understand that chiplets have disadvanteges like latancy but if it was easier to manufacture single chips AMD would've done so. Please, keep your mind open and accept new concepts and don't forget that whoever it is, AMD, Intel or Nvidia they're all here for your money and you should always choose what best for you! Never be a fanboy to any company ever.
@@yulfine1688 Actually AMD uses TSMC which is based on Taiwan not china. Also older cpus were manufactured by GlobalFoundries, who has fabs in USA, Germany and Singapore.
@@yulfine1688 btw thx for sharing that article! It was really intresting but a bit overly dramatic
@@hollow8194 AMD fanboys see fanboys everywhere not realizing that the only fanboys here are them.
*AMD starts producing chiplets to reduce costs of their CPUs
Intel: *Wait, that's illegal!*
Intel: aRe YOu GluInG CPu's tOgETHeR?
@@joaopedro-fy1lh You mean, what we did with the Pentium D?
Only if it was Boeing lol
@@joaopedro-fy1lh lmao
3:16
INTEL: Cheaper? What does that mean?
😂😂😂
Made me really LOL
Made in USA.
Cause China would be too expensive.
@@srjwari The thing is they never bring prices down like amd or nvidia does when the competition launch new products
@@BLKBRDSR71 TCMC is Taiwan based company, their wages are high and its not communist (mainland) China, its another country actually. Google Taiwan yourself =)
You gotta pay if you want the best.
I listened Linus, I clicked quickly so RUclips loves you again like you discussed on WAN show
Make linus great again
Why are they even hate him?
@@timestamppatrol he talked about it in the last WAN show, he noticed reduced views if the video was not viewed a lot close to release. It's funny, I made this comment and now I have a notification I cannot remove to "remember to follow guidelines in my comments"...
AMD's Ryzen was one of the best things to ever be introduced to the PC market.
definitely not
@@ilovehotdogs125790 Definetly not? OK then how do you explain that between 2006 till roughly 2011 when Sandy Bridge was released and from Ivy lake to Kaby lake literally nothing improved on Intel cpus?
Since 2017 cpus have been evolving so quickly to the point where you can buy a i3 10100f which will roughly perform the same as the top of the line i7 from 3 years ago. When there is competition the customer always wins. So even tho you might be an Intel fanboy you have to admit that Intel cpus became better so rapidly in the 3 years because of amd
@@iustrenght355 I never said it was a bad thing.. it's not not "the best thing to ever be introduced to the PC market." Lmao, competition is great sure, but ryzen isn't great or anything. Things that were bigger innovations: the introduction of a GUI, Linux, various advancements in the semi-conductor industry (like increasing transistor density), the mainstream adoption of SSDs, and many more. Lol, even the introduction of the UEFI bios is more noteworthy than amd's glued together cpus. 😂
btw. I'm not an intel fanboy, i've owned cpus from both amd and intel. AMD is better for workstation tasks (for the average consumer) not necessarily better for a large server/compute farm). Intel is better for gamers though.. even against zen 3. But to say ryzen is the BEST thing for the pc market is just hilarious.
@@ilovehotdogs125790 lmao ok guy. How do you think Ryzen wasn't great? It's one of the best things to happen to AMD, and they legitimately compete with Intel now.
@@ilovehotdogs125790 I think there is indeed a bit of Intel bias here.
The editing team did a great job with the graphics and animations in this video.
You had my thumbs up for the Intel "Cheaper? What does that mean?"
3:55 "Signals moving at the speed of light in a microprocessor" I know you guys simplify stuff for Techquickie but you might want to double check your facts on this one. Electrical signals don't move nearly at the speed of light, hence why fiber optic is faster than copper wiring. Electric signals are closer to 1/100th the speed of light through a conductor.
I came here to say this and am glad I'm not the only one who caught it!
He didn't say anything about electricity though. He might as well have meant optical computing or whatever else crazy stuff we do come up with.
the electromagnetic wave rippling through the electrons that propagates at close to the speed of light. The dimensions of the wire and electrical properties like its inductance affect the exact propagation speed, but usually it will be around 90 per cent of the speed of light - about 270,000 km/s.
AMD: **cheap and good cpu's**
Intel: We hAvE GoOd CpU'S! fRoM 99999$
Intel does have good CPUs though.
This is the kind of content that drew me to techquickie. Plz, keep doing more videos like this (a somewhat educational video)
Technology has been focussed on hardware but performance can be increased by better programming, i remember when I was in my twenties - a very long time ago, we were told that if we learned machine code and wrote beter programs then we could get better performance out of our computers
True. Software optimization can have a huge impact in overall performance. However, it's ultimately based on the hardware architecture on which it is running.
All of matisse use chiplets, not just the 16 core part.
I know that the apus that are coming out arnt and are basically zen+. I think that the ryzen 3 CPU lineup is monolithic too a d also based off zen+
@@slickjim861 matisse has no APU's in its lineup, the code name for the apus is picasso, renoir will have chiplet design
Us costumers just need to watch them fight intensely and wait for cheaper CPUs.
*NICE👌*
Because you never know when the costumers on Broadway are going to need cheaper, more powerful CPUs.
(Just having some fun here! No foul: no harm!)
Basically, the I/O chiplet is a rebirth of the Northbridge chip - it just so happens that the "northbridge" is combined into the same package as the CPU dies.
0:58 _"Another idea that's catching on [...] is chiplets"_
Doing AMD a disservice to say it like that; they invented this revolutionary design themselves through many years of research&development, starting in their harshest period in the middle of near-bankruptcy (AMD share price was around $2), barely any money to survive as a company, let alone staying afloat on two fronts (GPU and CPU), let alone having any R&D budget for innovation. Despite all odds they managed to do it while no other company was or is working on such a tech. Meanwhile AMD share price has risen to ~$30 by now thanks to the success of Infinity Fabric.
Great video, I'm glad you mentioned wafers (2:30), might I also suggest to viewers AdoredTV's videos on a longer explanation of that very topic - very interesting stuff (search for 'An Epyc Master Plan' on his channel)
Awesome :3 I'm going to check the channel.
ya AMD seemed dead for a while. I can't believe they're coming back.
I’m sorry i don’t speak nerd
Nice video. Just to point out electrons don't move at the speed of light in silicon or any interconnect metals.
correct they actually move at 4 parsecs per second
Short but informative...good job.
Really good video! Learned a lot !
Thanks!
Chiplets are my favorite brand of gum. I had no idea they made processors too.
inb4 AMD calling them Chiclets
Also: Bigger surface combined with same or less heat production means cooler running and easier and thus cheaper to cool.
Interesting video. I didn’t know that’s what the whole point of chiclets was. Very cool news and now I understand.
I love how simple and understandable you guys make everything to sounds like. 👍🏻
It's the logical conclusion; make it bigger to fit more.
it's not really that big, CPUs already take v small space on motherboard, plus some large size will also lead to better cooling
It seems to me that a physically larger chip might actually be beneficial for cooling purposes. Just throwing that out there!
makes sense
Yes and no. If you use more fans, even if they're smaller this will be true. But Just one big fat fan on the top of the cpu will not perform very different. Or just use water cooling instead.
Thank you and very cool
preciate you guys 💙💙
Linus is so weird. In one video he's the king of handsomeness and in another he looks like he has pubes for hair...He's still great though, as is our sponsor - FreshBooks!
Linus works Very hard, so sometimes he's not quite perfectly groomed.
Nice guy, though.
Why are the wafers circular? Doesn’t that waste space around the edges that can’t be used?
because the silicon ingot is circular to begin with
Yes there's wasted space around the edges but these wafers are cut from a large Large Silicon crystal so that it's 99.99...9% pure to be used for semiconductors. No way around that.
@@stayfrost04 I see what you did there lol ;p
Thank you , always fresh and update Linus.
Good job to whoever did the sound edit
Linus is just the best speaker of his team. He knows how to pronounce words in a way that makes people want to hear more. Great job. Good video.
The problem with multiple dies is that the inter-die communication can be quiet energy expensive. (more capacitance-->energy required to charge it CVdd^2). The other half of the story is how they have split their processors into different dies.
Fields move at the speed of light but not the signals really..
Also, as the die gets bigger, the clock speed has to slow down because the signal must go further. It's a timing nightmare to design for big surface areas which I imagine is a big issue in chiplet based designs
@@granttamiadinata I don't deny it. But I believe the more interesting question is how they are splitting it into chip let's without increasing the TDP..
This... was quite educational, I didn't knew that
Nice
Nice morph cut 👌🏻
Linus didn't mention half of the benefits that chiplets bring
That's not the point of the video, though. He's merely introducing chiplets and why it is Intel lagging behind AMD. Perhaps he will do a dedicated video for it
So when can we have our chiplet based GPUs then? Maybe extra chiplets for that glorious raytracing experience?
@@hoffer_moment ... The latency, I can imagine it
Thank you!
Thanks for the info guys. Had heard of chiplets previously but didnt know what they were.
Thank God we have an underdog which has not given up! looking forward to building an AMD system.
Love how integrate your ads its always funny
“The obvious drawback of size still does exist.”
Something one would expect from watching Jayz videos and the occasional innuendo.
Less over emphasis. Explained concisely. Why can't more 'Linus' videos be like this? This was a great video.
@Techquickie Can you do a video on LG networks? It boggles my mind that we can just build towers that output a wireless signal that maintains strength through buildings and can be used for back and forth communication to stream HQ videos and such. It just seems like nature would prevent it, or there would be consequences.
This is the life hack of the future
The capacity of longer wires is a larger issue than the speed of light since increasing the capacity of the interconnect increases power usage and heat production. It also limits the clock speed due to the the time that it takes to change the voltage in the wire according to kirchhoff voltage law.
Just wanted to throw those fun facts out there.😉
zero point energy baby
Ahh man that really breaks it down well...easy to understand. Thank you Linus!
Intel: cheap? GTFO! 🤣🤣 True af
I love chicklets, they’re chewy... :)
why not just chicks?
That transition was so smooth i didnt even realise
This will also allow manufacturers to more easily customize chips for specific functions by swapping chiplets. Needs chiplets with more L2,L3 or a chiplet with longer pipe? Perhaps using specific independant jobs such as mentioned with I/O or AI or environmental.
It's not rumoured. Did sleep through computex and E3?
You should watch a behind the scenes on how LMG makes their content. This was probably shot weeks ago and is just now ready to be uploaded.
@@drowsspeed1 I've seen them and that may be the case here. But they've previously changed videos to address new developments. This is one is bad.
AMD Saving the CPU game
0:38 the problem really is because of Quantum property of an electron and how the tunneling probability increases as the size of the transistor decrease. Meaning we cant turn off the transistor after a certain limit(1-2nm)(we are currently at 5nm/7nm but even in this case the leakage currents are massive and the photolithography techniques used to fabricate transistors are getting more challenging). Thus logic gates cant be implemented and hence you cant make a CPU out of it.
Good explanation of chiplets and yield
I need freshbooks on my solja phone.
By using magic ofcourse like Elon Musk always did
As we all know it's performance is a magnitude greater.
I’m sorry I don’t speak nerd
I wanted to know more about chiplet design, but I am very interested in Freshbooks now because Freshbooks is a very relevant topic to chiplet design.
We need a version of Techquickie with a night mode
I never understood why they make the waffers a circle rather than say a square where you don't get all the edge pieces cut off??
they come from silicon ingots and those are circular because they are manufactured by spinning
yay
Linus thanks for making this. This is cool knowledge.
Good vid.
16 core is not a rumor anymore.
Nothing moves at the speed of light or even remotely close to that in the CPU or anywhere else, except for photons in void.
damn i haven't been this early in years
BTW why are wafers circular?
because the silicon crystal theyre cut out of is grown into a cylinder
"that's the way nature wants them to be!"
@@gabor-smith Thanks.
I heard some companies were experimenting with 3D processor designs as well. And then there's photonics: using photons(light) to operate transistors instead of electrons. And we could use other materials instead of silicon as well. So we haven't exhausted all the possibilities but I think we're about to hit the limit for silicon.
U mean quantum cpu
@Ri so pia Eh as far as I know, it's not exactly a breakthrough because quantum computing can only perform certain types of calculations faster than normal computers, not all of them. But maybe it will become significant in the future. Idk
@@feynstein1004 but the power to run it is much more
@Ri so pia Hmm I really don't know enough on this topic to comment any further.
i'm still rocking an i5 3320m, with a 1050ti on the express card slot for gaming, very new tecnology.
I dont think signals move at speed if light.
The velocity of electrons is in order of 5 not 8
Surprised you didn't mention the latency introduced with Infinity Fabric
You guys should do a video of a PC build with all corsair icue products and go all out like inside and outside the case and go over how to setup all the various hubs corsair uses like fan and lighting hubs as well as their commander pro. Briefly go over the software too. Its definitely holding me back from going all in on this stuff right now because there is no high quality videos explaining how it all works. Want it explained clearly before I buy. Oh and make sure to use corsairs new custom water cooling!
Oh and do it on LTT
I am missing one crucial thing from this video: the interconnect. A lot of IPC performance depends on it. When we're talking chiplets, this interconnect is still on a "chip" but distances are larger.
Also it would have been nice to say that separating I/O from CPU is not that new (remember north/south bridges). What is new is the place where to put those blocks.
why isn't cpu clock speed increasing please make this video
Because of power and heat constraints.
semiengineering.com/semiconductor-industry-getting-serious-about-chiplets/
www.extremetech.com/computing/290450-chiplets-are-both-solution-and-symptom-to-a-larger-problem
The "power wall".
As frequency goes up, so does heat.
At a high enough temperature, you can't 100% tell if a transistor is a 1 or a 0. Which is the basis of all microprocessing or something like that.
Why not use chiplets and die stacking, and use HBM ram for cpu caching, seems they're moving towards transistor density than transistor count
Thermal regulation? Flat pack means larger surface area available to heat spreader???
semiengineering.com/semiconductor-industry-getting-serious-about-chiplets/
www.extremetech.com/computing/290450-chiplets-are-both-solution-and-symptom-to-a-larger-problem
www.extremetech.com/computing/290450-chiplets-are-both-solution-and-symptom-to-a-larger-problem
That’s the way to do it, if you’ve crammed the transistors on the chip as close as possible on the dies, get the dies closer on the packaging
Love you Linus bro
1:28 basically confirmation of threadripper deviation of epyc rome existence xD
I think they also mentioned that in the latest WAN show
The dislike button hitters are a bunch of INTEL fan boys.
Codexual It’s people who want good performance in their games
Would you guys ever do an ALD or PEALD video? Or maybe a video on the challenges on graphene technology, or other non-silicon tech?
Awesome video. Nice simple and educational. Feels like back in school with a very pleasant feeling. If you started a computer science learning channel i would eeasiilyy watch it. Online linus computer courses watched all over the world. Now there is an idea
2026 ... new chiplet processor units reaching 99 Ghz when supercooled
Never ever, Its clear that you dont know anything about signal transfer and heat production. Does not matter how you cool down a chip at atomic level the heat is not dissipated so well you gonna have melts down.
@@paolophoenix 8ghz is more like it
I'm pretty sure chiplets dont help with the "power wall" problem, . At a certain frequency (not even 10 Ghz) the the transistors get so hot that you cant reliably tell the difference between a 1 and a 0. It kinda "bleeds" together at that temperature.
There is another issue a square wawefront includes all odd frequencies. To resolve a square wave u need at least in the channel 10 (better 15-20) times the frequency you run at. So you channel must sustain at least 990 Ghz around 1 THz nope for silicon of the processor architecture. You need to use surface wavelets or optic fibers, too much radiation dissipated as antenna effect.
@@paolophoenix google diamonds chips or IBM's SiGe transistors,power transfer in superconductors,spintronics and magnonics,before you say "Never ever".
0:39 it is Quantum Mechanics, not much Chemistry but Physics, Laws Of Physics....... QM becomes major role player
Thts when quantum tunneling was found
Photolithography is a chemical processes which used to create microprocessors,and this is the reason why intel struggle with 10nm, not QM.
I was promised Linus with a cat filter, and I am not leaving until I get it!
Same
Good video, I would request to make a topic on terragraph? Please reveal the mystery behind it
Damn, 6 views? I'm early
Electrons don't travel at the speed of light... Actually, quantum mechanics forbids this.. So technically the amount of transistors on a chip isn't the whole deal, it's also the distance the electron has to travel to activate said transistor, hence the quantum mechanics reference.
Electrons dont travel all the way around the circuit either. The amount of flow (literally by definition the number of electrons) in a circuit is amps. (remember voltage is the potential or "pressure") An Amp or Ampere is one coulomb per second past a given point (Coulomb is to amp what a watt is to a joule). Think of it more like a pipe full of rubber balls that are exactly the inside diameter. If you push a ball in one side another immediately pops out the other side. Also the distance problem you describe is known as latency which can and is mitigated in many ways. So for many practical purposes, it may as well be whatever nice decimal point of C you'd like. Either way its almost if not as fast.
#ulysisxtr Jesus man, we are on Tech channel not science one. we don't care about the speed of electrons nor physics....
Well, if you're referring to 3:54, Linus didn't say electrons, he said signals. While it's true that electrons move at a very slow pace through a conductor, and signals don't actually travel at the speed of light, signals do travel at a significant fraction of the speed of light in a conductor. In a vacuum, signals do travel at the speed of light. Electrons don't of course otherwise they'd gain infinite mass (which would require infinite energy)!
Linus it not about how big chip can get while not caching a defect,its about a speed of light and how far signal from a clock generator can travel to maintain synchronisation in the chip, practical limit 40x40mm chip
LTT. A Techquicky to the past
How long ago was this made? AMD has already announced Zen 2 twice.
I think he uploads videos first on floatplane and later on to youtube
In theory you could also build a heavily poly-layer cpu using stacked chiplets to get some of that space back. Thermals would be a *shut yo mouth*.
Thomas Uniat add cooling layers in between them to pipe heat out to the sides
@@JAT985 agreed. Maybe just copper foil instead of heat pipes but same idea. Sounds easier than it is though.
So I clicked on the "i" icon for reference video and found out in 2016 and even in 2015 Freshbooks was there sponsoring Techquikie. We surely came a long way.
Make the processor bigger instead?
Electrons travel slower than speed of light, like several MPH... Changes in voltage propagate much faster but still much slower than speed of light.
AMD cpus have always been affordable.
yea but now they're fast too
YAY MD!
I do not regret this pun.
2:30 TSMC Logo
It's normal, the r3 1200 cost 55/60€ and the r2200g cost 75/80€?
Well the 3300g has integrated graphics so it's obviously more expensive compared to the r3 1200 which does not have any kind of integrated graphics.
Oof, this was clearly filmed a while ago. AMD's 16 core Ryzen CPU isn't "rumored" anymore boys.
2:26 all these squares make a circle
Bring on the CPU wars again!