I watched your video since frenshman year, now I have a job offer from tsmc az. I thank you for keeping me interested in this field for the last 4 years.
@@yuvrajsingh15823 Unless you're learning about embedded systems, microcontrollers and firmware. TSMC probably doesn't have a position for CS students anyway. They mainly hire computer and electrical engineers for obvious reasons.
As a Taiwanese and friends of few who works in tsmc… US government and locals do not work with tsmc that smooth. Rules after rules and very slow process, and don’t care about timeline. On the other hand, Japanese just generally want it to work out, therefore they really work with tsmc and putting a lot of time and effort to catch up the calendar they have set. Although they are very serious about their “Shokunin” mindset ,they are open to adjusting rules and overall setting to learn the essences of how tsmc do the job and implement to their own SOP. But I hope the AZ project can work out and catch up.
Not a big suprise. Japan dominated the semiconductor industry with 50+% of chips being made in japan but USA killed japanese semiconductor industry in '87.
Japan will make a comeback. • Nikkei 225 all-time high. • In 2023, Sony Beat Samsung, (whom defeated Japanese electronics industry) in profits for the first time in 24 years (since 1999). • Rapidus 2nm in construction by 2027. • Yen is now depreciated back to competitive levels like 1980s.
Why Japan is doing it better? Because they collaborate with local companies which are already collaborating with TSMC. You have conglomerates like Sony, Mitsubishi Heavy Ind. and Mitsubishi Elec. and many, many others who are in it because it's good for Japan. Where as in USA you get companies which are on it because they were cheaper than competition, you do not have local high-tech companies to support it and all they see is money.
The Problem might be, if you have many people around you leads to so many opinions then leads to make a choice when needed in time. Especially in a democratic nation, Especially in Japan, and especially for Japanese.
I am in the UA and we have a huge labor shortage of welders fitters plumbers for all the fabs currently being built. Welders will literally work for a company for a week be offered another 10$ an hour by someoen across the street. They will go make that money then be offered more to go back to the former employer. The shortage is real, and its real nice for workers right now.
@@ohsweetmystery I work as electrician in construction and in years past it was a struggle to negotiate a $0.80 an hour raise. This year the contractor came to us with a $3.00 an hour opener. Man times have changed.
If I remember correctly the Japanese first phase uses DUV since it's 28nm which actually DOES refer to something. It stops referring to anything dropping down below somewhere in the realm of 14nm depending on the company. Getting a DUV lab up and running is VERY commonplace for TSMC now. On the other hand AZ is loaded with problems, starting with even the construction, water issues where TSMC has to recycle almost all the water they use, and on and on and on. It's also using EUV which is a much harder lithography to get perfect. N4 is a variant of N5 so it's not a big change for them to start with N4. This was always a possibility for them and it makes sense because different American companies are using N4 for different parts, the biggest being AMD. Nvidia currently uses N4 but their next product lines should be N3, and Apple is using N3, so phase 2 for the AZ plant should be N3. AMD on the other hand is using mostly N5 and N6 with SOME parts on N4. The AZ plant will probably never make anything for Apple since Apple always wants to have a node advantage and are on the newest nodes, but they can make parts for a lot of other chipmakers who don't want to be on the newest node for various reasons.
If you run with the most "advancing" chip maker, why not just listen it's issue of critiria, and run with it first, then you become the most "advancing"? Mr. USA
No one forced TSMC to build their fab in Arizona. TSMC chose it there, Taiwanometry is always complaining about everyone in Asia but China. Now it’s complaining about America. If TSMC wanted to build it’s fab in hot humid place then they should have selected Florida. TSMC chose Arizona knowing process will be slow.
@@kulkrafts3143exactly, they'll figure it out. Always complains about Asia? I kind of thought he seems like a bit of a simp for Asia lol. I probably haven't watched as much of him as you though.
@@kulkrafts3143 I can't believe people are actually this daft, the TSMC plant was announced during the height of the chip war with china when America announced its CHIPS and Science Act. While they didn't technically "force" TSMC to operate in the USA, the tension between China and Taiwan was at its peak during Covid as the lockdowns also cut off diplomatic channels between Taiwan and China. It didn't help that TSMC at the time just announced its newest 3nm Node, compound that with the fact many chips in use by US military is also manufactured by TSMC, there was a really real concern for China taking Taiwan and gaining both the newest chip fabrication technology and access to potential vulnerabilities in US weapon systems. There was significant pressure from the US for TSMC to build its newest 3nm fab in the USA, its just done in typical US fashion. The China chip ban cutting off TSMC from one of its largest markets, and the CHIPS and Science Act with its enticing government subsidies makes it super obvious to any company what America wants them to do. But of course once Covid was over and the looming threat of a Chinese invasion stamped out thanks to the Ukraine war showing China it wasn't worth it to engage with a NATO aligned country, there was no real incentive for both TSMC and USA to follow through with the Arizona fab, leading to the situation we find ourselves in today.
fab12, fab 22, fab 32, fab 42 , intel r&d, and god blessed me with fab21. i walk 8.5 miles a day. and i break my body to get those factories built in AZ. i am a dedicated american worker, far and few but we are dedicated and wont let you down tsmc. thank you for this blessing, thanks to asianometry you have educated me.
I am a huge fan of your channel and the way you explain the extremely complex world of semiconductor manufacturing, but my goodness the dry as hell humor is just the cherry on top
This is crazy. I came to the comment section to write almost this exact comment word for word. I have no idea how he's able to consistently make these kinds of videos when the research alone should be multiple full time jobs. Of course, as a layperson I can't verify the accuracy of most of the info, but I don't hear any obvious alarm bells.
@@amandagrant4331 Close to no natural disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes and cheap reliable power with cheap land. Arizona is a good decision.
I read that TSMC's CEO asked Sony to join as a partner. Maybe he learned from the difficulties TSMC encountered in the US. Imagine if TSMC's leading US customers, Apple, Nvidia, and Qualcomm, joined the project in AZ. The project would have a more vigorous push to make it happen.
Unlikely since those are completely different businesses. Not well known but Sony is a semiconductor manufacturing company, that's why it worked so well. Like he said in the video they would've needed Intel or global foundries in the US to get the same effect.
Arizona USA is probably one of the worst place on earth to make chips, TSMC engineers who came back from Arizona are very pessimistic about that project.
Water shortage, lack of qualified human capital, lack of suppliers (they basically have to ask all their suppliers to come with them to Phoenix, because there's zero in Arizona), cost of living isn't cheap (within USA) which means TSMC has to pay its local workers more, and general environment and safety falls short of expectations for TSMC engineers stationed there.
@@AyoHues sure thing. Odds are not insurmountable, and I'm sure production will get rolling once enough money is thrown in. Whether it stays will depends heavily on subsidy though. It's a bit like that ski resort in Saudi Arabia, not impossible, but costs a fortune to keep it going.
I am guessing it's because everyone in Japan is interested in getting the project going, it's a matter of national survival. And Japanese can be very collaborative, working as a team. What's good for one town is good for the nation. In Arizona, there's a) labor shortage and b) more local, state and federal politics involved, for instance around the water usage, labor, land acquisition, many other things.
American subsidies and American politics are always a struggle as Arizona has faced numerous problems in expanding its semiconductor business. Intel has number of plants in the region but those were built in the 20th century and expanded in the last 20 years. The issue is that water rights is highly contentious in the desert and lot of people do not want it constructed over whatever issue they have chosen to get behind. They'll work through it and it will just expand the Silicon Desert influence and reach in the United States.
Americans don’t have the discipline, technical skills and hard working. The chip factory will fail in the states. I am an engineer in the fabs in the states!
they dont ask you to go to taiwan its a mandatory part of the job, I was offered this type of posistion in 2021, you had to commit to staying in taiwan for 3 years after which you had to come back to AZ and spend at least 2 years there. keep in mind this is all for a shit wage compared to simlar possitions that didnt require me to move
I'm happy that the Dresden project is taking the "known good" route. The whole Chips Act always looked to me as a "If Intel keeps eating their crayons and sniffing their glue"-emergency-exit kind of mechanism.
Cultural differences is the biggest problem that plagues Asian companies ventures in the USA. East Asia shares a similar work culture and business culture whereas America is vastly different depending on where the company is set up. Look how long it took Japanese automakers to get a foot hold in the USA. In the 80's Samsung was seen as nothing but junk. Now its a staple in the USA. Give it time.
In terms of water security. New Zealand and Japan apparently are most secured going into climate change. Places like Arizona, Middle East, China will be facing challenges.
As an American in this industry, word on the ground is that a big problem has been finding skilled personnel and hiring - TSMC reached out to try and recruit me for the Arizona fab, but were asking me to move to Taiwan for training for 1-2 years. That just wasn't an option for my family. Moving to a country with my wife and kids where none of us speak the language might have been an option if it wasn't for the fact it also would cause immigration headaches for them upon returning to the USA because they are green-card holders.
@@BarkingstingrayThat's another factor - my wife would like the warmer weather a bit, but the endless suburban sprawl in the southwestern desert environment isn't for her, or for me. So you have a brutal work culture and hours, a generally less-desirable location for workers, less-than competitive wages, and a demand to move overseas and train for two years. Definitely not a recipe for success to recruit American workers.
@siliwhiz for me, linked-in. I currently work at a different semiconductor manufacturer as an engineer, which between education, job title, keywords and employer landed on some recruiter's search list.
@siliwhiz same as mentioned by Robert, they reached out on linkedin, I have a BA in physics, graduated in 2020, have been at Intel for 3 years now in EUV
the red tape in the US is just insane. people complaining clearly haven't tried to get city approval for an addition on their house. When my parents did it back in the 1980's it took 8 months to get the plans approved. then construction was delayed multiple times due to the city inspector. i can't imagine how much red tape TSMC has to get through in Arizona. Look at how slow Giga Texas took to build compared to gigashanghai. then there's gigaberlin that had even more red tape.
You can easily reduce the red tape by simply hiring more people to do the paperwork. People who complain about "government workers" forget the red tape is almost always there for a reason (Boeing) but you need to have People on both sides.
Here's one for you... while arranging for a nitrogen microbulk (storage tank) for our new site in Phoenix, the sales rep informed me that an oxygen monitoring system would be required. The tank is outside the building in open air and the smallest size they have. The Bay area doesn't even have these requirements.
So is Japan? Red tape is a common thing amongst developed nation, and they are there for good reason. Matter fact, US actually has relatively few red tape compare to most develop nation as long as you properly compensate the right officials.
I visited the area there in Kikuyo last august, that time they were already done with construction for the most part, now I hear that they will launch another one in Yatsushiro.
So ultimately they settled on building a very advanced 3 or 4nm factory from scratch which is why it is taking forever. The new Kumamoto factory I believe is a 10nm and they just announced a second factory 6nm for Toyota's supply chain I believe and now a third factory a more advanced node possibly 3nm is being planned at the moment.
Kumamoto Prefecture, where the TSMC plant was built, is truly my hometown. I have also seen the process of their factory construction. Here is an excerpt from a news report. "Kumamoto University is the first university in 75 years to establish a new organization to serve as a faculty. The university aims to produce 150 graduates in five years who will be employed in semiconductor-related companies." ...I don't know anything about this field, but I can say, as a local individual, that thanks to the new industry, a rail line will be built between Kumamoto Airport and Higo Ozu Station. This is news of great pleasure to me! ...This is all I can say. 😅
Yar, the obvious reason is the difference in how US civil construction compares to Japanese. A sink hole larger than the size of the 8+ lane intersection collapses in Japan, Tokyo or somewhere and it's back up and ready for use in less than 10 days. In the US, a sink hole the size of a single car lane takes 10 *months*.
It is more like 3 days job in Japan. In the last major earthquake (not the one in 2024-1-1), they are able to fix the whole damn road in few days. That is a very long section of road is complete gone or twisted.
In most of the apples to apples comparisons of civil construction I’ve seen, this isn’t actually true. Emergency construction differs greatly from normal construction and there are a lot of very good reasons not to speedrun infrastructure replacements and construction all the time. By the way. After Hurricane Ian hit Florida, the bridge to Pine Island was completely destroyed. A replacement was built in 3 days.
Don't forget that Japan's semiconductor industry in the late 70's - early 80's gave the US a run for its money. So threatening it was that the US went for a full-blown trade war with Japan with anti-dumping measures against Japan, crippling Japan's semiconductor industry. This actually created an opening for Taiwan's United Micro and South Korea's Samsung to get into the game. Then came the buburu burst of the 90's, and Japan Semiconductor industry became a ghost of its former self.
People forget that the sheer pay on Taiwan and Japan is very low, in exchange for good security. On top of that, the geography makes moving people not that big an ask. Asking people to move to Arizona from say California is much more of a change. Plus, the US has a very anti-worker attitude. Companies which try to do it better often get punished by governments who are funded by other companies who don't want to get worker conditions inproved.
@@fukolombobby It's complicated. But Japan at least has a strong aversion to firing people. I've worked for a Japanese company and the Inpats I saw who made me think "how the hell does this guy have a job" were numerous. I was told they simply don't get fired in Japan.
From TSMC senior officials, they said: Japan has been a semiconductor manufacturer hub in the past, so they could build the fab faster than Americans do. However, Japanese are too obsessed to make their products perfect. The company’s efficiency is questioned when it comes to manufacturing. In the semiconductor world, we make products that suffice for the consumer ASAP.
They're installing closed-loop purification.... which quite frankly should be par for course at any water-hungry industrial site. This is not unknown, cutting-edge stuff, people. It's fking WATER PURIFICATION.
Northvolt was going to expand in Sweden the battery factory but instead expand in the US thanks to subsidies. Companies will always go to whomever will subsidies them the most.
Ironically, much of the investment in this factory comes from the organization and coordination of the EU government. The EU initially hoped that this company would become the largest battery producer in Europe.
They have a plan to actually reclaim more water than they use . We will see how that goes. The south west unfortunately is the most geologically stable areas in the states and most conducive to semiconductor manufacturing
You may be right, but I THINK that Arizona State and local tax incentives may have played a bigger part in the plant location than any geologic stability. I DO hope Intel can figure out sustainable water there. @@Error_404-F.cks_Not_Found.
Dude the technology to completely purify water in a "closed loop" is decades old. It doesn't matter if the Fab's on the bottom of the ocean, the middle of the Sahara, or the surface of the Moon. Sure, it means the fab basically needs an entire power plant and waste treatment facility bolted onto it.... but that's a small expenditure next to the fab itself.
@@-_----- So can you tell me what the actual water usage is for the existing fans there, and the projected usages for the proposed fabs? The companies CHOOSE how much to buy and how much to recycle, based mainly on cost.
I live in Phoenix and although I don't have specific insight I can offer some general thoughts. 1. Intel is expanding and training is held in the US 2. Water is an issue not going to be easily or cheaply solved 3. AZ has horrible pay rates that don't lend to employee loyalty 4. The air in the desert is extremely challenging to filter - silt is invasive 5 AZ unions are weak due to the state being a right to work state. The unions have no legal means to keep non-union employees out of the work force
American workers demand better pay and benefits but none of the work ethics to show for. A co worker of mine used to work for Honda and the corporate head in japan sends quality engineers to us plant to inspect the cars made there and the japanese engineers are confused why the cars made in america have a lot of defects.
American corporations demand lower pay growth and more layoffs, and it shows in their portfolios. Workers are simply “acting their wage” because of how distant their management’s interests and benefits are from their own.
I dont think TSMC in US will change anything or make US the super powerhouse that makes semiconductors. The work culture is just too vastly different. Americans are simply not willing to put in that kind of hours of work to make semicon in US a success
As an Asian who grow up in America and work in America, hate to tell the truth, but yes, many Americans do not have the right work ethic mindset(learning mindset too, many aren't willing to learn with humble but challenging when they know nothing about any basic stuff) and are very self titled and America centric, this pride problem exists in every country include Japan, but Japan and Eastern Asian countries do realize it and acknowledge it when they're behind, and they work very hard and humble to catch up then eventually surpass. America seems still living in its past where it was at its prime, I don't know how long will this last but I guess as long as America still has the no.1 military in the world, they will still have advantages, and they will continue to work and live like this
Americans have no pride in their jobs unless they work for themselves. They’re all disgruntled and dissatisfied. You can tell in their voice when you ask for help. All they want to do all day is finish up and go home.
They spent 10 years on this project. They had to first build new residential areas, schools, shops, etc in order to bring in workers from Taiwan and within Japan and second was educating and training these new residents that moved in. Already it is beginning to show the same signs seen in Taiwan. Rise in traffic, pollution, shortage of water and electricity.
A bit off on current investment in the AZ Fab. If they have just installed the last steel beam. They are a long way from installing the manufacturing tools. Building a fab building is not cheap but it is peanuts compared to advanced fab equipment. They could probably still afford to just walk away if they wanted to.
@ 13:03 i spotted a mistake i guess. 30'000 yen or even 50'000 yen is not a living wage. That's an expensive night out. I take it as a place holder for a 66% overpay, they offered?
Can't blame 'em - downtown Taipei, Taiwan is shit compared to downtown Phoenix, Arizona, and Taipei is one of the best cities in Taiwan, surrounded by even shittier New Taipei and Hsinchu. Before you say "earthquake", Tokyo has similar earthquake frequency and beats both of them, easy. Taiwan has many wonders, but its cities ain't one of them.
Simply put the salary to go overseas is not high enough for an advanced welder in the US who could make far more working a job he already is qualified for. On the other hand unions that represent these workers will always fight against bringing in labor because it makes sure the government has to fairly assess the need for the H-1B (High skilled worker) visas. There is a history of US companies abusing the visa program to bring down wages, the union representatives are expected to argue to force what they see as a proper allotment of foreign workers to keep as much potential wages for their constituents. This unfortunately will slow things down, but the Federal government will allocate what is required when all is said and done. I think the video made a good point of a local contact being helpful in bridging this gap. Companies within the US often employ people who's job is to manage union relations and it makes projects go very smoothly. I think it's important to note while the unwillingness to go train in Taiwan is an individual choice, the backlash for bringing in foreign skill labor is more of a product of the collective bargaining practices in place by unions rather than each general welder or contractor thinking he could do every job required to build such a complex construction.
@@雀-t6cNope. From Jakarta, lived in Taipei. Taipei is shit compared to Jakarta metropolitan area, and Jakarta has even less GRP/capita than Taiwan's GDP/capita, even using PPP. Sorry for telling the truth if you're from Taiwan.
A TI partnership would have made a lot of sense if tsmc was building for those larger node sizes they’re targeting in Japan. They just don’t have much in their catalog that actually requires a leading edge node so they wouldn’t get a whole lot out of the deal. It’s unfortunate the government focused so hard on getting the “best” node from TSMC, especially with Intel finally stepping up and shipping their leading-edge stuff. Would have been much better off focusing on the easier nodes at larger volumes, or on courting more memory makers.
So much of the government's problems are due to focusing on the wrong things. Building a facility that in a longer timeframe can do a smaller number of "Leading Edge" chips is a WAY stupider decision than getting a 2 or 3 generations behind, Tried and True, Still relatively high end capacity, That you can manufacture faster and easier for a cheaper price. That has far more practical application and is a much more intelligent move. Japan knows this, And it's their extraordinary level of common sense that has allowed them to make these better decisions, and those decisions have compounded into Japan becoming a global leader in many areas. Americans just want to be "#1" at anything and everything. It's Short Sighted and it's stupid, and it's why America struggles with achieving and maintaining its "#1" spot at so many things.
@@Stone_624 the ironic thing is that we’re still getting a node several generations behind at tsmcs plant, but intel will be shipping a true leading edge node before it even opens when they start shipping 18A. So we could have had both the capacity we actually needed for the stuff that goes into cars, refrigerators, and everything else, while also having a mfg creating the “most advanced” chips in the world.
The government wants the most advanced node from TSMC so they have the technology and experience on shore (which they call other countries of IP thief). TSMC knows that and also no experience within US so keep to 4nm. While Intel is working to advance to even smaller (being pretty much fully subsidized by taxpayers) they are still generations behind and are depending on TSMC to manufacture their future generation of 3nm processors to compete with AMD and NVidia.
Your points are on point, intelligent, and well thought out. I appreciate your views, and free educational glimpse into the complexities of computer function, history and future.
On average, Americans are not lazy at all, but it is undeniable that Taiwanese are more willing to make some sacrifices for the company. Taiwanese companies will not lay off employees because of some short-term performance like American companies.
Yep, if you compare Americans to insane work culture in Asia they may appear lazy. However compared to say Europe, Americans still work a fair bit more for example.
That’s the result of corporate attitudes towards its labor. There’d be more pride doing Made in USA if company management provided a workplace environment and mission to be proud about.
US culture does not value this kind of work, we're more about seeing workers as tools and not integral parts of labor and productivity. Doesn't help that getting this kind of specialized education is way too expensive.
@@doujinflip tell what specific things the company should do to "provided a workplace environment and mission to be proud about" sing the anthem every morning?
Each organization would be different, though singing songs sounds too childish for American workers to get on board with. More like how SAP or Costco treats its employees, which allows them to retain voluntary talent even when competitors offer larger paychecks.
Good to see that older larger geometry fabs are still quite important in the supply chain. Most semiconductors made don't need the highest density technology. I remember back in the 1980s the Japanese chip dies where larger than those from American makers, but those Japanese chips also ended up being more reliable. Japan also made power saving CMOS versions of the current microprocessors, while Intel dragged their feet with older, more power hungry, NMOS versions. Didn't embrace CMOS until a half decade later.
With all due respect, I think you’re a “reliable” knowledge-based RUclipsr, I’ve been watching your intellectual, informative, diversified videos for a while, they’re excellent. But can you be more specific at 6:44 about “Taiwan’s DIGITIMES” “admittedly not so reliable.” Your point is quite arbitrary. I’m a Taiwanese, I'm also a DIGITIMES reader, I find it has a solid professional research team, I believe it has the same highest level as TSMC in terms of ICT professional intelligence, and also Morris Chang has been a board member of DIGITIMES since it was founded.
Intel can't get workers in Ohio because no one interested in that kind of work wants to live where they are building the factories. They aren't anywhere near the major population centers of Columbus, Cincinnati or Cleveland. LMC had the same problem recruiting workers to move to the Lordstown area.
@@mylet26585 min from downtown Columbus is cornfields and cowpatches. California has surf reports on the radio every morning, Columbus has the farm report. IDC how many people live there, Columbus is still a sh*thole.
@@taxirob2248 you are not wrong Cali has beaches and the mountains and really good weather would be easier to attract workers but the costs of Intel manufacturing there is prohibitive - Intel started in Cali I would think they used to have plants there too - Columbus isn’t that bad at all just a medium sized city nothing too bad or special about the place
@@mylet2658 but it's outside the city. Intel missed the point of the recent trends in urbanism and built in a suburb no one wants to even travel to. Furthermore, Ohio sucks for many reasons, the lack of public transit being chief among them. Columbus is known for keeping the streets clear n winter, but it's still a 40 minute bus ride to the nearest Intel facility from Columbus proper. What they need to do is build office buildings downtown like olden times, and also build walkable neighborhoods around them. Columbus isn't doing that, instead they simply reversed the commute from downtown to the suburbs during rush hour. It's the same thing every other dying city is attempting to do in order to bring back their tax base. Especially since they gave away all their tax revenue from businesses so that revenue from individuals is all that's left. It worked sooo well in Detroit... The only advantage Columbus has is that they're building just enough housing IN the city to boost the population numbers, but Cleveland still has a higher GDP. Go figure.
America lacks safe, viable, walkable, culturally rich towns and cities with good public transportation. Build it anywhere and most people wouldn’t move there for one reason or another. They will stick to their boring suburban life.
I was listening to the list of process steps and mentally inserted cleaning after every step, more and more anxious you’d left it out. 😅 Thank goodness, and thank you.
Can you please explain what is the meaning of what Dr.Morris Chang said below........ ? Aug 6, 2023 --------TSMC founder Morris Chang was featured in a New York Times article that came out over the weekend. When asked about the Sino-U.S. competition for semiconductor supremacy, the chip titan said China doesn’t have much of a chance to gain the upper hand.
China faces couple of problems that prevents them from doing so. Given the right environments they can do it but China alone cannot develop such advanced chips. That's why they rely so much on sending students abroad. But that's not the only problem. China needs investors and nobody wants to partner up with any Chinese semiconductors. Nvidia, Intel, AMD, etc. Another factor is the pollution. It requires very clean water and clean air to produce high end chips.
I know this might not be super up your alley, but I would love a video where you discussed the discovery of the double helix and subsequent dna developments. Seems like the kind of thing you could do a lovely analysis on.
That chart showing how Japan builds fabs faster than Taiwan, China or Korea is interesting. Japanese construction is just on another level. In railway construction JR leads in construction speed and solid earthquake resistance. Fast but also carefully engineered. I saw Kanazawa Station before the earthquake and noticed all the quake dampers on the columns.
@@JapanQuest theres nothing to do with that tbf. Most of japanese infrastructure was built faster before 90s. Just take a look at the hokuriku shinkansen that take more than 17 years to complete just 300km lengt compare to tohoku shinkansen that just need 10 years to complete 400km of tohoku line. The same problem was also happen oversea that the jakarta mrt extension need 7 years to built just for 6km of lengt that built by japanese contractor.
You didn’t include Singapore in the ballgame. GF Fab7H was promised to be completely build up in 2 year but did in 1 and a half year. Same with Micron and ST Micro.
Actually the U.S. and Japan are trying to share the hegemony of the semiconductor industry. It is not a problem to be solved only by giving up the United States😅
Most significant is a ~4 vs. ~5 day work week would create a gap, unless the weekend at one location offset by a calendar day to local time. A 16 hour workday difference would be more easily handled as 8 hours (+1 day) difference.
But fabs are usually running 24hrs with engineers on shifts so time zone shouldn’t be that much of an issue unless we are talking about suppliers and supply chain issues
" 28.9.2023 - With China already boasting chip subsidies worth at least $150 billion in 2022 .. " " a proposal made at this spring’s annual session of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference urged national-level policymakers to align China’s various semiconductor development efforts into “one chessboard,” meaning a single national strategy. ... "
Very insightful as always. Each episode I learn a multiple interesting and new (to me) things. A couple of points not covered in this TSMC in Japan vs. TSMC in Arizona. 1. Time zones: Taiwan and Japan are just an hour apart. Taiwan and Arizona are 15 hours apart (different workday). 2. Southwest U.S. is very depended on Colorado river for water, particularly AZ, CA, NM. Searching "TSMC Arizona Water" has some interesting results. All water will be recycled. A foreign policy article titled "No Water, No Workers, No Chips" mentions an Israeli company secured a $5 Billion U.S. contract to desalinate seawater and pump it over 200 miles to the Phoenix region. The article also offers an estimate start timeframe of 2025/26. Water might be a contributing factor for delay in becoming operational.
*If, **_as you say,_** "tolerances" of N4 are "less forgiving" **_( than lager NM rated chips )_** ... why do you insist that N-size is not quantifiable ?* From what I have gleaned.... _please correct me if I am wrong...._ the EUV beam width measured in NM is responsible for overall semiconductor density, thus, performance. _( You can squeeze more stuff onto a chip.)_
IIRC Intel stopped quoting size in nm a couple years ago, they said it didn't make sense anymore because there was no industry standard for exactly what it measures. Intel had been saying their 10nm was equivalent to TSMC 7nm.
in both of these countries with advanced economies, the only think stopping anything from happening can be A: red tape from governments, or B: money. BoJ has negative interest rates still, so I am going out on a limb and guessing it was a money access thing, Japan just gave them more.
Americans enjoy the advantage that talents from all over the world cooperate with the United States in speaking English. Once Americans want to learn another language, it will be very painful for Americans.
😅Why don't you look into the other side of Financial statements , capital, saving etc. IMF announced that most balanced healthy Financial statement in the world is Japan.
Yes, it's ture the our debt stays with BOJ, but none of us have rights to use it so it doesn't matter. It's like you have a safe with full of cash in, but only someone else has the key to open it.
About your comments at 3:00, you shouldn't let something so small like money get in the way of politics, money wont stop the mainlanders from just taking stuff by force if allowed
3:44 I noticed you never mentioned whether they had actually bought any of the machines yet? If they were slow walking in the us then all they would need to do is just not buy those machines you mentioned (after all what would be the point in buying them before the building is done, even better sense they require so much lead time) until they were ready to actually finish the project, helped by the fact big companies in Taiwan are a lot more tied to the government (both officially and unofficially) .
I think because Aisa people (and I am Taiwanese) can work over 12~24 hour and still 24h on call ready to emergency work on holiday. Compared with us, Westerners are too lazy and want too much money, and have too many requirements and dissatisfaction with the working environment. If people in a place are too comfortable, sooner or later they will lose their industrial advantage and lose the market. If you can't 24 /7 If you meet the needs of customers on call 365 days a year, you will lose your market, especially when your product delivery period is much higher than that of products of the same level and quality in Asia. Especially in Europe, their high-tech electronics and software industries have lost their competitiveness in the world. They can only rely on "antitrust laws" to collect money from big companies such as Google and Apple and force the market to open up. Instead of respecting the choices of our users, they The industry has been so desperate that it must rely on unfair competition from the government to survive.
TSMC is doing better in Japan likely for the same reason that Toyotas and Hondas made in Japan have fewer defects and have lower tolerances for things like body panel gaps, than Toyotas and Hondas made in North America: the workers in Japan have a better work ethic and are more conscientious. Just ask RUclipsr Scotty Kilmer, the auto mechanic with 55 years of experience. This does not mean that Japanese culture is "better" than American, as the Asianometry host hastens to say, perhaps needlessly concerned with a backlash. It does mean that culture affects work and our attitudes toward it and, for whatever reason, this may yield differing results in terms of quality and efficiency.
I see a huge potential problem with new fabs in US, Japan, SK, Germany. The motivation for that is the risk of China's actions disrupting chip supply from Taiwan, leading to another, and potentially devastating and long, chip shortage. It is, therefore, essentially, an insurance premium, driven by fear of possible trouble, rather than demand. So what happens if China does *not* annex Taiwan or attempt to? Surely there will be significant excess capacity world wide, which could in turn cause serious profitability problems for the likes of TSMC. Are state and federal governments in these countries going to step in with more cash to keep the plants open? The politics of that are fraught, to say the least. As long as Taiwan remains the source of most chip supply, fabs elsewhere to insure against disruption must necessarily be excess capacity.
At least in theory the extra capacity would result in lower prices for chips [leading to more demand to use them]. Though maybe TSMC will build less capacity in Taiwan then they previously would have to avoid lowering prices [they could afford some price reductions due to the subsidies given].
Everybody is building out supercomputers for AI research, plus infrastructure for AI applications, so there will be plenty of demand, at least for the higher end nodes.
There is a huge supply glut in mature nodes 28nm and larger. THe build up in Japan, Gemany, India , even global foundaries in US, is matched by a build up in China. The glut will last a decade, and it will deprive the companies the profit that funds R/D.
Thanks for the continued clarifications that process node names are nothing but labels at this point. Mainstream press continues to see nodes like “N3”, then “helpfully” extrapolate that to “3nm” when writing articles about new TSMC chips. Even industry-related sites like TrendForce, who should know better, perpetuate these falsities
Even ignoring the many many logistical and workforce advantages Japan has over the USA in semiconductor manufacturing... The Bureaucracy of the USA is something else. And on top of that America easily has the worst parasitic load of grossly overpaid administration and Investors globally, where money is being made they will be trying to crash the party by any means possible, even if that means ending it.
@@tacticlol The Formula of productivity is very misleading, because it is based on GDP... Due to this formula, Ferrari workers are "more productive" than Toyota workers because their products worth more. But in reality, we know who works better. Well, it's not a coincidence that oil countries don't appear on the index of productivity 💀
Japan is a better choice for TSMC as technology is readily available and is nearer than other alternatives. And also Japan is better especially if China becomes more aggressive toward Taiwan.
I think one of the big problems with Arizona is our housing market, our inability to continue to build our water limitations and our social, the problems with the border. Arizona was a good yet bad choice to build
I think a lot of you need to do some more research on the matter and talk to those who work there. What goes on and has until this point will blow your mind.
Why would TSMC have not just partnered with AMD for assistance with the Arizona fab? They are their largest customer, they are headquartered in Texas, they are not a competitor, and they used to own Global Foundries so they have to know a little about the process. Seems like a no brainer.
It's not up to TSMC but uncle Sam, TSMC knew it won't work because its founder, Morris Chang, work most of his life in America and specializes in semiconductor industry, he knew already, but Biden insist to do it this way so US can secure these chip as national strategy resources. The problem is, when TSMC did come under the pressure, US offers almost ZERO help, kinda just left TSMC die out there by itself and expect them to understand everything in US including laws, people, culture, which is unbelievable when you have to work with a partner from another country, like seriously dude? But America just did it like it's normal. I think Biden and his team and perhaps in the entire US, no one knows about chips any more, that's why they make a such decision, and then expect TSMC to build a fab here like China builds a low end manufacturing factory, apparently no one know chips and TSMC in America, but Japan does, and this is the result. Americans were trying to blam it on TSMC being unprofessional with labor laws and building fabs, but what they did in Japan instantly proves Americans wrong, but Americans are too proud to admit they're behind and know nothing and perhaps lazy, so this just keep dragging on Now Japan just announced there will be a 2nd chip fab in Kumamoto, but I guess by the time they finished the 2nd one in Japan, Arizona still can't finish its first TSMC fab looool
@@yaya5tim I get that, but it seems like an obvious pairing and would make the construction and startup operations so much faster. Not like the government is great at planning ahead though.
@@kornydad14 haha, the problem is still the uncle Sam...... I'm sure you know this already, but just in case you don't, and no offense by all means if you're an American, in some TSMC's ex higher-ups' eyes, Americans have a very big ego, and this is basically the problem The government wants TSMC to be at US, but they do not want TSMC working with American companies and collab with the technology R&D, they want to have their own ecosystem set up and keep it American. So AMD with TSMC? Dude AMD is generous enough to hire a Taiwanese to be its CEO, no way they're going to allow themselves to work with a non-American company. If US government won't allow TSMC to work with anyone they wish and offer zero help, this is the result, and apparently US government wants it this way. Dude if you can think of it, TSMC is full of PhD engineers, and these PhD engineers turned into sales and advisors and managers and strategist, you think they don't know that? Now there's many experts and ex TSMC higher-ups think US is trying to dragging TSMC down just so Intel can catch up Why? they only give TSMC 5 billion USD(according to Bloomberg)so far, very far away from the amount they were going to invest, and TSMC have to pay out of its own packet for 40 billion USD, this is a losing money business that TSMC is doing right now. and guess how much Japan gave TSMC? 8 billion USD, on top of that TSMC invest 20 billion USD and have 86.5% of the Japanese chip fab, the other % is co-invested by Sony's semiconductor department, so not only Japan is giving more money right away, they also help TSMC to reduce the cost of building chip fab in Japan. Bro, TSMC throw 40 billion USD to US for sack of Biden, and look at what US is doing to TSMC? And don't even try to mention how this is US "protecting Taiwan in case China invades", bro, do you know Taiwan bought a lot of weapons from US before and after Ukraine War breaks out? All of them are delayed...... most of them are already expiring from the due date for shipping, and this is how US trying to protect Taiwan and TSMC...... I feel like US is more like trying to make thing worse So sorry if you're an American, but your government that your people voted for......... I don't know what to say, maybe in the end of day you do want to see Taiwan become part of China and see China try to steal more advance chip tech secret then surpass US, if that's what Americans want, sure we can't do anything and just wasting all of our efforts fighting Communist China in the front line all these time. I just disappointed in US government and US voters, like how do you allow these people to show up and lead your country? They don't know anything and even make things worse for their allies......
I'm not in semiconductors, but some years ago Huawei offered me an EMEA job with amazing comp. But I turned it down, much to their horror, because they wanted me to spend two months in China training. I had a young child who had health issues, so there was no way I was going to be away for that long.
ive been following your channel for at least a year maybe a few and i swear this is the first time im learning that 4nanometer isnt literal haha thank you very much appreciate the learning
There is no point in sugarcoating how bad USA has been for TSMC fab construction. Doesn't make sense why they are taking such huge cash burn investment. Maybe in the next shareholder meeting people directors will discuss on this.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I watched your video since frenshman year, now I have a job offer from tsmc az. I thank you for keeping me interested in this field for the last 4 years.
Probably good for your interview questions too. Congrats mate 😊
Can share more about how you get at that level? (A very beginner in cs student asking).
@@yuvrajsingh15823 Unless you're learning about embedded systems, microcontrollers and firmware. TSMC probably doesn't have a position for CS students anyway. They mainly hire computer and electrical engineers for obvious reasons.
@@yuvrajsingh15823like almost everything first steps help you ram your foot in the door.
Congratulations!!!
As a Taiwanese and friends of few who works in tsmc…
US government and locals do not work with tsmc that smooth. Rules after rules and very slow process, and don’t care about timeline.
On the other hand, Japanese just generally want it to work out, therefore they really work with tsmc and putting a lot of time and effort to catch up the calendar they have set.
Although they are very serious about their “Shokunin” mindset ,they are open to adjusting rules and overall setting to learn the essences of how tsmc do the job and implement to their own SOP.
But I hope the AZ project can work out and catch up.
White supremacy and systematic racism towards asians.
American politicians are insane and irrational, especially the Democrats.
I don't think it will, the us government is going bankrupt and the education system of America has become garbage .
TSMC is doing better in Japan because the food is better in Japan
Can't argue against that. The couple of times I've visited Japan, food was great from the factory cafeteria, up.
Words of truth and wisdom.
I am happy Tsmc came to Japan , just that feeling of appreciation. No margin games
Disagree on that. Taiwan food lives high on my list
@@MrVilidatThe comparison is with the US.
Not a big suprise. Japan dominated the semiconductor industry with 50+% of chips being made in japan but USA killed japanese semiconductor industry in '87.
Japan will make a comeback.
• Nikkei 225 all-time high.
• In 2023, Sony Beat Samsung, (whom defeated Japanese electronics industry) in profits for the first time in 24 years (since 1999).
• Rapidus 2nm in construction by 2027.
• Yen is now depreciated back to competitive levels like 1980s.
What did the US do in 1987?
Why Japan is doing it better? Because they collaborate with local companies which are already collaborating with TSMC. You have conglomerates like Sony, Mitsubishi Heavy Ind. and Mitsubishi Elec. and many, many others who are in it because it's good for Japan. Where as in USA you get companies which are on it because they were cheaper than competition, you do not have local high-tech companies to support it and all they see is money.
The Problem might be, if you have many people around you leads to so many opinions then leads to make a choice when needed in time. Especially in a democratic nation, Especially in Japan, and especially for Japanese.
Don't kid yourself, the Japanese aren't immune the profit motive.
Yes
@@chickenfishhybrid44
We do it for love.
@dellyspice
It's... it's God-jira?
I am in the UA and we have a huge labor shortage of welders fitters plumbers for all the fabs currently being built. Welders will literally work for a company for a week be offered another 10$ an hour by someoen across the street. They will go make that money then be offered more to go back to the former employer. The shortage is real, and its real nice for workers right now.
Fewer workers always means better pay and more power to the working class.
I am happy Tsmc came to Japan , just that feeling of appreciation. No margin games
@@ohsweetmystery I work as electrician in construction and in years past it was a struggle to negotiate a $0.80 an hour raise. This year the contractor came to us with a $3.00 an hour opener. Man times have changed.
This phenomenon signals a bigger inflation is coming
@@yiyatsen true. its gonna be wild in some places. like europe!
If I remember correctly the Japanese first phase uses DUV since it's 28nm which actually DOES refer to something. It stops referring to anything dropping down below somewhere in the realm of 14nm depending on the company.
Getting a DUV lab up and running is VERY commonplace for TSMC now.
On the other hand AZ is loaded with problems, starting with even the construction, water issues where TSMC has to recycle almost all the water they use, and on and on and on. It's also using EUV which is a much harder lithography to get perfect.
N4 is a variant of N5 so it's not a big change for them to start with N4. This was always a possibility for them and it makes sense because different American companies are using N4 for different parts, the biggest being AMD. Nvidia currently uses N4 but their next product lines should be N3, and Apple is using N3, so phase 2 for the AZ plant should be N3. AMD on the other hand is using mostly N5 and N6 with SOME parts on N4. The AZ plant will probably never make anything for Apple since Apple always wants to have a node advantage and are on the newest nodes, but they can make parts for a lot of other chipmakers who don't want to be on the newest node for various reasons.
If you run with the most "advancing" chip maker, why not just listen it's issue of critiria, and run with it first, then you become the most "advancing"? Mr. USA
No one forced TSMC to build their fab in Arizona. TSMC chose it there, Taiwanometry is always complaining about everyone in Asia but China. Now it’s complaining about America.
If TSMC wanted to build it’s fab in hot humid place then they should have selected Florida.
TSMC chose Arizona knowing process will be slow.
@@kulkrafts3143exactly, they'll figure it out. Always complains about Asia? I kind of thought he seems like a bit of a simp for Asia lol. I probably haven't watched as much of him as you though.
@@kulkrafts3143 I can't believe people are actually this daft, the TSMC plant was announced during the height of the chip war with china when America announced its CHIPS and Science Act. While they didn't technically "force" TSMC to operate in the USA, the tension between China and Taiwan was at its peak during Covid as the lockdowns also cut off diplomatic channels between Taiwan and China.
It didn't help that TSMC at the time just announced its newest 3nm Node, compound that with the fact many chips in use by US military is also manufactured by TSMC, there was a really real concern for China taking Taiwan and gaining both the newest chip fabrication technology and access to potential vulnerabilities in US weapon systems.
There was significant pressure from the US for TSMC to build its newest 3nm fab in the USA, its just done in typical US fashion. The China chip ban cutting off TSMC from one of its largest markets, and the CHIPS and Science Act with its enticing government subsidies makes it super obvious to any company what America wants them to do.
But of course once Covid was over and the looming threat of a Chinese invasion stamped out thanks to the Ukraine war showing China it wasn't worth it to engage with a NATO aligned country, there was no real incentive for both TSMC and USA to follow through with the Arizona fab, leading to the situation we find ourselves in today.
fab12, fab 22, fab 32, fab 42 , intel r&d, and god blessed me with fab21. i walk 8.5 miles a day. and i break my body to get those factories built in AZ. i am a dedicated american worker, far and few but we are dedicated and wont let you down tsmc. thank you for this blessing, thanks to asianometry you have educated me.
wait what?? how do you walk 8.5 miles and still arrive at work on time or home for that matter?
@@arslaanmania1309 The size of some of the Intel fabs it is easy to walk that far on a typical 12 hour shift.
I am a huge fan of your channel and the way you explain the extremely complex world of semiconductor manufacturing, but my goodness the dry as hell humor is just the cherry on top
LOL, dry humor like Arizona Desert dry?
This is crazy. I came to the comment section to write almost this exact comment word for word.
I have no idea how he's able to consistently make these kinds of videos when the research alone should be multiple full time jobs. Of course, as a layperson I can't verify the accuracy of most of the info, but I don't hear any obvious alarm bells.
I think it all comes down to the fact that Japan is considerably less awful than Arizona. Arizona is just terrible.
Fake news
and Arizona is among the least terrible, sheesh
This can only be attributed to TSMC's sloppy investigation before investment.
US is very big, much bigger than AZ.
@@amandagrant4331 Close to no natural disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes and cheap reliable power with cheap land. Arizona is a good decision.
@@tesla82111yeah, but its tight on one of the most important things, water
I read that TSMC's CEO asked Sony to join as a partner. Maybe he learned from the difficulties TSMC encountered in the US. Imagine if TSMC's leading US customers, Apple, Nvidia, and Qualcomm, joined the project in AZ. The project would have a more vigorous push to make it happen.
Yes, if only American companies were so self centered, selfish, short-sighted. It’s almost like it’s part of the cultur.. oh.
Unlikely since those are completely different businesses. Not well known but Sony is a semiconductor manufacturing company, that's why it worked so well. Like he said in the video they would've needed Intel or global foundries in the US to get the same effect.
Arizona USA is probably one of the worst place on earth to make chips, TSMC engineers who came back from Arizona are very pessimistic about that project.
Genuine question: why is that? I’m a complete newbie so intrigued to know more, thank you. 🙏🏽
Water shortage, lack of qualified human capital, lack of suppliers (they basically have to ask all their suppliers to come with them to Phoenix, because there's zero in Arizona), cost of living isn't cheap (within USA) which means TSMC has to pay its local workers more, and general environment and safety falls short of expectations for TSMC engineers stationed there.
@@MRTY323 that makes a lot of sense, thank you. 🙏🏽
@@AyoHues sure thing. Odds are not insurmountable, and I'm sure production will get rolling once enough money is thrown in. Whether it stays will depends heavily on subsidy though. It's a bit like that ski resort in Saudi Arabia, not impossible, but costs a fortune to keep it going.
Not enough water, American engineers and lazy work culture. TSMC regrets but only doing it to satisfy the US government's demands.
I am guessing it's because everyone in Japan is interested in getting the project going, it's a matter of national survival. And Japanese can be very collaborative, working as a team. What's good for one town is good for the nation.
In Arizona, there's a) labor shortage and b) more local, state and federal politics involved, for instance around the water usage, labor, land acquisition, many other things.
American subsidies and American politics are always a struggle as Arizona has faced numerous problems in expanding its semiconductor business. Intel has number of plants in the region but those were built in the 20th century and expanded in the last 20 years. The issue is that water rights is highly contentious in the desert and lot of people do not want it constructed over whatever issue they have chosen to get behind. They'll work through it and it will just expand the Silicon Desert influence and reach in the United States.
Americans don’t have the discipline, technical skills and hard working. The chip factory will fail in the states.
I am an engineer in the fabs in the states!
they dont ask you to go to taiwan its a mandatory part of the job, I was offered this type of posistion in 2021, you had to commit to staying in taiwan for 3 years after which you had to come back to AZ and spend at least 2 years there.
keep in mind this is all for a shit wage compared to simlar possitions that didnt require me to move
Yep
And that's how American workers become uncompetitive. Someone has to endure that cost if America to become competitive at micro conductor ever.
And that is why outsourcing begins in the first place.
I'm happy that the Dresden project is taking the "known good" route. The whole Chips Act always looked to me as a "If Intel keeps eating their crayons and sniffing their glue"-emergency-exit kind of mechanism.
Cultural differences is the biggest problem that plagues Asian companies ventures in the USA. East Asia shares a similar work culture and business culture whereas America is vastly different depending on where the company is set up. Look how long it took Japanese automakers to get a foot hold in the USA. In the 80's Samsung was seen as nothing but junk. Now its a staple in the USA. Give it time.
Japanese automakers were manufacturing in the US from 1980s.
Japan: has water, Arizona: does not have water
In terms of water security. New Zealand and Japan apparently are most secured going into climate change. Places like Arizona, Middle East, China will be facing challenges.
As an American in this industry, word on the ground is that a big problem has been finding skilled personnel and hiring - TSMC reached out to try and recruit me for the Arizona fab, but were asking me to move to Taiwan for training for 1-2 years. That just wasn't an option for my family.
Moving to a country with my wife and kids where none of us speak the language might have been an option if it wasn't for the fact it also would cause immigration headaches for them upon returning to the USA because they are green-card holders.
Though importation of materials and parts is also a headache.
Yeah, they reached out to me as well, and I just have no interest in moving from where I'm at to somewhere like Arizona for what they were offering
@@BarkingstingrayThat's another factor - my wife would like the warmer weather a bit, but the endless suburban sprawl in the southwestern desert environment isn't for her, or for me.
So you have a brutal work culture and hours, a generally less-desirable location for workers, less-than competitive wages, and a demand to move overseas and train for two years. Definitely not a recipe for success to recruit American workers.
@siliwhiz for me, linked-in. I currently work at a different semiconductor manufacturer as an engineer, which between education, job title, keywords and employer landed on some recruiter's search list.
@siliwhiz same as mentioned by Robert, they reached out on linkedin, I have a BA in physics, graduated in 2020, have been at Intel for 3 years now in EUV
the red tape in the US is just insane. people complaining clearly haven't tried to get city approval for an addition on their house. When my parents did it back in the 1980's it took 8 months to get the plans approved. then construction was delayed multiple times due to the city inspector.
i can't imagine how much red tape TSMC has to get through in Arizona. Look at how slow Giga Texas took to build compared to gigashanghai. then there's gigaberlin that had even more red tape.
I want to know what their accident rate is
You can easily reduce the red tape by simply hiring more people to do the paperwork. People who complain about "government workers" forget the red tape is almost always there for a reason (Boeing) but you need to have People on both sides.
And Texas is the best State to get permits in. Counties have no zoning authority.
Here's one for you... while arranging for a nitrogen microbulk (storage tank) for our new site in Phoenix, the sales rep informed me that an oxygen monitoring system would be required. The tank is outside the building in open air and the smallest size they have. The Bay area doesn't even have these requirements.
So is Japan?
Red tape is a common thing amongst developed nation, and they are there for good reason.
Matter fact, US actually has relatively few red tape compare to most develop nation as long as you properly compensate the right officials.
Because unions in the U.S threw a stink about workers from other states working at the site
I don't think the union have a chance to be involved in chip manufacturing
@@teeklerlee5847 union for the construction workers. Not the fab employees
I visited the area there in Kikuyo last august, that time they were already done with construction for the most part, now I hear that they will launch another one in Yatsushiro.
So ultimately they settled on building a very advanced 3 or 4nm factory from scratch which is why it is taking forever. The new Kumamoto factory I believe is a 10nm and they just announced a second factory 6nm for Toyota's supply chain I believe and now a third factory a more advanced node possibly 3nm is being planned at the moment.
Kumamoto Prefecture, where the TSMC plant was built, is truly my hometown. I have also seen the process of their factory construction. Here is an excerpt from a news report. "Kumamoto University is the first university in 75 years to establish a new organization to serve as a faculty. The university aims to produce 150 graduates in five years who will be employed in semiconductor-related companies."
...I don't know anything about this field, but I can say, as a local individual, that thanks to the new industry, a rail line will be built between Kumamoto Airport and Higo Ozu Station. This is news of great pleasure to me!
...This is all I can say. 😅
Yar, the obvious reason is the difference in how US civil construction compares to Japanese. A sink hole larger than the size of the 8+ lane intersection collapses in Japan, Tokyo or somewhere and it's back up and ready for use in less than 10 days. In the US, a sink hole the size of a single car lane takes 10 *months*.
that's impressive, in Philippines, it's 10 years
It is more like 3 days job in Japan. In the last major earthquake (not the one in 2024-1-1), they are able to fix the whole damn road in few days. That is a very long section of road is complete gone or twisted.
@@omniyambot9876they just go around it and leave it as is till next elections in the Philippines.
still using that old ass meme i see which is not true at all rofl
In most of the apples to apples comparisons of civil construction I’ve seen, this isn’t actually true. Emergency construction differs greatly from normal construction and there are a lot of very good reasons not to speedrun infrastructure replacements and construction all the time.
By the way. After Hurricane Ian hit Florida, the bridge to Pine Island was completely destroyed. A replacement was built in 3 days.
Don't forget that Japan's semiconductor industry in the late 70's - early 80's gave the US a run for its money. So threatening it was that the US went for a full-blown trade war with Japan with anti-dumping measures against Japan, crippling Japan's semiconductor industry. This actually created an opening for Taiwan's United Micro and South Korea's Samsung to get into the game. Then came the buburu burst of the 90's, and Japan Semiconductor industry became a ghost of its former self.
I would think the government in Japan is more nimble in moving the project forward compared to the US bureaucracy.
People forget that the sheer pay on Taiwan and Japan is very low, in exchange for good security. On top of that, the geography makes moving people not that big an ask.
Asking people to move to Arizona from say California is much more of a change. Plus, the US has a very anti-worker attitude. Companies which try to do it better often get punished by governments who are funded by other companies who don't want to get worker conditions inproved.
It’s more than that. It’s cultural. Japanese workers are precise. American worker are all too often “that will do” which won’t achieve 2nm ever!
I would move in a heart beat if I was offered to work unfortunately every application I have made has been rejected.
saying the US is anti worker compared to taiwan and japan is laughable
@@fukolombobby It's complicated. But Japan at least has a strong aversion to firing people. I've worked for a Japanese company and the Inpats I saw who made me think "how the hell does this guy have a job" were numerous. I was told they simply don't get fired in Japan.
Japan’s population is way too old
From TSMC senior officials, they said:
Japan has been a semiconductor manufacturer hub in the past, so they could build the fab faster than Americans do. However, Japanese are too obsessed to make their products perfect. The company’s efficiency is questioned when it comes to manufacturing. In the semiconductor world, we make products that suffice for the consumer ASAP.
@Asianometry you are incredible at this form of content! You are thorough, honest, accurate, and perfectly paced.
Phoenix Arizona already has problems with water supply. I don't understand why it was chosen for
a FAB
They're installing closed-loop purification.... which quite frankly should be par for course at any water-hungry industrial site.
This is not unknown, cutting-edge stuff, people. It's fking WATER PURIFICATION.
This should be asked to TSMC planners.
AZ has always been there, and it is impossible for nature to change the geography of AZ for TSMC.
Northvolt was going to expand in Sweden the battery factory but instead expand in the US thanks to subsidies. Companies will always go to whomever will subsidies them the most.
Ironically, much of the investment in this factory comes from the organization and coordination of the EU government.
The EU initially hoped that this company would become the largest battery producer in Europe.
Never forget cleaning!
Hey! Where should we put these water thirsty plants in the US? I know! Let’s put them in a desert state that’s running out of water! Brilliant!
They have a plan to actually reclaim more water than they use .
We will see how that goes. The south west unfortunately is the most geologically stable areas in the states and most conducive to semiconductor manufacturing
So dumb
You may be right, but I THINK that Arizona State and local tax incentives may have played a bigger part in the plant location than any geologic stability. I DO hope Intel can figure out sustainable water there. @@Error_404-F.cks_Not_Found.
Dude the technology to completely purify water in a "closed loop" is decades old.
It doesn't matter if the Fab's on the bottom of the ocean, the middle of the Sahara, or the surface of the Moon.
Sure, it means the fab basically needs an entire power plant and waste treatment facility bolted onto it.... but that's a small expenditure next to the fab itself.
@@-_----- So can you tell me what the actual water usage is for the existing fans there, and the projected usages for the proposed fabs? The companies CHOOSE how much to buy and how much to recycle, based mainly on cost.
I live in Phoenix and although I don't have specific insight I can offer some general thoughts.
1. Intel is expanding and training is held in the US
2. Water is an issue not going to be easily or cheaply solved
3. AZ has horrible pay rates that don't lend to employee loyalty
4. The air in the desert is extremely challenging to filter - silt is invasive
5 AZ unions are weak due to the state being a right to work state. The unions have no legal means to keep non-union employees out of the work force
this channel really has amazing information that you cannot readily get anywhere else about this critical industry
American workers demand better pay and benefits but none of the work ethics to show for.
A co worker of mine used to work for Honda and the corporate head in japan sends quality engineers to us plant to inspect the cars made there and the japanese engineers are confused why the cars made in america have a lot of defects.
American corporations demand lower pay growth and more layoffs, and it shows in their portfolios. Workers are simply “acting their wage” because of how distant their management’s interests and benefits are from their own.
@@doujinflip there's a lot of example of how bean counters ruin companies like Boeing comes to mind.
I dont think TSMC in US will change anything or make US the super powerhouse that makes semiconductors. The work culture is just too vastly different. Americans are simply not willing to put in that kind of hours of work to make semicon in US a success
As an Asian who grow up in America and work in America, hate to tell the truth, but yes, many Americans do not have the right work ethic mindset(learning mindset too, many aren't willing to learn with humble but challenging when they know nothing about any basic stuff) and are very self titled and America centric, this pride problem exists in every country include Japan, but Japan and Eastern Asian countries do realize it and acknowledge it when they're behind, and they work very hard and humble to catch up then eventually surpass.
America seems still living in its past where it was at its prime, I don't know how long will this last but I guess as long as America still has the no.1 military in the world, they will still have advantages, and they will continue to work and live like this
Americans have no pride in their jobs unless they work for themselves. They’re all disgruntled and dissatisfied. You can tell in their voice when you ask for help. All they want to do all day is finish up and go home.
They spent 10 years on this project. They had to first build new residential areas, schools, shops, etc in order to bring in workers from Taiwan and within Japan and second was educating and training these new residents that moved in. Already it is beginning to show the same signs seen in Taiwan. Rise in traffic, pollution, shortage of water and electricity.
A bit off on current investment in the AZ Fab. If they have just installed the last steel beam. They are a long way from installing the manufacturing tools. Building a fab building is not cheap but it is peanuts compared to advanced fab equipment. They could probably still afford to just walk away if they wanted to.
They can't go away.
Even if the AZ factory keeps losing money, they can't go away.
I drove by the AZ site, two days ago and it is massive. Both sites are..... exciting stuff.
One of the reason Tsmc is interested in Kumamoto Japan is the best quality water supply.
@ 13:03 i spotted a mistake i guess. 30'000 yen or even 50'000 yen is not a living wage. That's an expensive night out.
I take it as a place holder for a 66% overpay, they offered?
Americans not being willing to go to Taiwan for training but complain if TSMC bring in their trained engineers instead.
Can't blame 'em - downtown Taipei, Taiwan is shit compared to downtown Phoenix, Arizona, and Taipei is one of the best cities in Taiwan, surrounded by even shittier New Taipei and Hsinchu. Before you say "earthquake", Tokyo has similar earthquake frequency and beats both of them, easy.
Taiwan has many wonders, but its cities ain't one of them.
Simply put the salary to go overseas is not high enough for an advanced welder in the US who could make far more working a job he already is qualified for. On the other hand unions that represent these workers will always fight against bringing in labor because it makes sure the government has to fairly assess the need for the H-1B (High skilled worker) visas. There is a history of US companies abusing the visa program to bring down wages, the union representatives are expected to argue to force what they see as a proper allotment of foreign workers to keep as much potential wages for their constituents. This unfortunately will slow things down, but the Federal government will allocate what is required when all is said and done. I think the video made a good point of a local contact being helpful in bridging this gap. Companies within the US often employ people who's job is to manage union relations and it makes projects go very smoothly.
I think it's important to note while the unwillingness to go train in Taiwan is an individual choice, the backlash for bringing in foreign skill labor is more of a product of the collective bargaining practices in place by unions rather than each general welder or contractor thinking he could do every job required to build such a complex construction.
@@socket0180could you elaborate on that? Are you referring to the food, activities, night life in the city?
This has got to be sarcasm, right?
@@雀-t6cNope. From Jakarta, lived in Taipei. Taipei is shit compared to Jakarta metropolitan area, and Jakarta has even less GRP/capita than Taiwan's GDP/capita, even using PPP.
Sorry for telling the truth if you're from Taiwan.
A TI partnership would have made a lot of sense if tsmc was building for those larger node sizes they’re targeting in Japan. They just don’t have much in their catalog that actually requires a leading edge node so they wouldn’t get a whole lot out of the deal.
It’s unfortunate the government focused so hard on getting the “best” node from TSMC, especially with Intel finally stepping up and shipping their leading-edge stuff. Would have been much better off focusing on the easier nodes at larger volumes, or on courting more memory makers.
TI does their own thing.
So much of the government's problems are due to focusing on the wrong things. Building a facility that in a longer timeframe can do a smaller number of "Leading Edge" chips is a WAY stupider decision than getting a 2 or 3 generations behind, Tried and True, Still relatively high end capacity, That you can manufacture faster and easier for a cheaper price. That has far more practical application and is a much more intelligent move. Japan knows this, And it's their extraordinary level of common sense that has allowed them to make these better decisions, and those decisions have compounded into Japan becoming a global leader in many areas.
Americans just want to be "#1" at anything and everything. It's Short Sighted and it's stupid, and it's why America struggles with achieving and maintaining its "#1" spot at so many things.
TSMC still makes Intels most advanced chips. TI is a joke in the 21st century. The "good old boys" at TI lost due to their racism.
@@Stone_624 the ironic thing is that we’re still getting a node several generations behind at tsmcs plant, but intel will be shipping a true leading edge node before it even opens when they start shipping 18A. So we could have had both the capacity we actually needed for the stuff that goes into cars, refrigerators, and everything else, while also having a mfg creating the “most advanced” chips in the world.
The government wants the most advanced node from TSMC so they have the technology and experience on shore (which they call other countries of IP thief). TSMC knows that and also no experience within US so keep to 4nm. While Intel is working to advance to even smaller (being pretty much fully subsidized by taxpayers) they are still generations behind and are depending on TSMC to manufacture their future generation of 3nm processors to compete with AMD and NVidia.
TSMC has just started working. To say it's doing better is too early. Not that it won't but you never know how fast relationship change in this world.
Your points are on point, intelligent, and well thought out. I appreciate your views, and free educational glimpse into the complexities of computer function, history and future.
What time does the Asianometry news letter come out again?
On average, Americans are not lazy at all, but it is undeniable that Taiwanese are more willing to make some sacrifices for the company. Taiwanese companies will not lay off employees because of some short-term performance like American companies.
Yep, if you compare Americans to insane work culture in Asia they may appear lazy. However compared to say Europe, Americans still work a fair bit more for example.
The same reason manufacturing struggles in US. Lousy, expensive, confrontational, often poorly educated and entitled workforce
That’s the result of corporate attitudes towards its labor. There’d be more pride doing Made in USA if company management provided a workplace environment and mission to be proud about.
US culture does not value this kind of work, we're more about seeing workers as tools and not integral parts of labor and productivity. Doesn't help that getting this kind of specialized education is way too expensive.
@@mycelia_ow tools are integral parts of labor and productivity.......
@@doujinflip tell what specific things the company should do to "provided a workplace environment and mission to be proud about"
sing the anthem every morning?
Each organization would be different, though singing songs sounds too childish for American workers to get on board with. More like how SAP or Costco treats its employees, which allows them to retain voluntary talent even when competitors offer larger paychecks.
This channel adds value to RUclips like almost no other. Thank you for existing.
Good to see that older larger geometry fabs are still quite important in the supply chain. Most semiconductors made don't need the highest density technology. I remember back in the 1980s the Japanese chip dies where larger than those from American makers, but those Japanese chips also ended up being more reliable.
Japan also made power saving CMOS versions of the current microprocessors, while Intel dragged their feet with older, more power hungry, NMOS versions. Didn't embrace CMOS until a half decade later.
As a US citizen: Who in the world would voluntarily deal with our government and unions?
With all due respect, I think you’re a “reliable” knowledge-based RUclipsr, I’ve been watching your intellectual, informative, diversified videos for a while, they’re excellent. But can you be more specific at 6:44 about “Taiwan’s DIGITIMES” “admittedly not so reliable.” Your point is quite arbitrary.
I’m a Taiwanese, I'm also a DIGITIMES reader, I find it has a solid professional research team, I believe it has the same highest level as TSMC in terms of ICT professional intelligence, and also Morris Chang has been a board member of DIGITIMES since it was founded.
Intel can't get workers in Ohio because no one interested in that kind of work wants to live where they are building the factories. They aren't anywhere near the major population centers of Columbus, Cincinnati or Cleveland. LMC had the same problem recruiting workers to move to the Lordstown area.
What are you talking about ? the new Albany site is 20 mins from downtown Columbus and the Johnstown site is 30 mins from downtown Columbus
@@mylet26585 min from downtown Columbus is cornfields and cowpatches. California has surf reports on the radio every morning, Columbus has the farm report. IDC how many people live there, Columbus is still a sh*thole.
@@taxirob2248 you are not wrong Cali has beaches and the mountains and really good weather would be easier to attract workers but the costs of Intel manufacturing there is prohibitive - Intel started in Cali I would think they used to have plants there too - Columbus isn’t that bad at all just a medium sized city nothing too bad or special about the place
@@mylet2658 but it's outside the city. Intel missed the point of the recent trends in urbanism and built in a suburb no one wants to even travel to.
Furthermore, Ohio sucks for many reasons, the lack of public transit being chief among them. Columbus is known for keeping the streets clear n winter, but it's still a 40 minute bus ride to the nearest Intel facility from Columbus proper.
What they need to do is build office buildings downtown like olden times, and also build walkable neighborhoods around them. Columbus isn't doing that, instead they simply reversed the commute from downtown to the suburbs during rush hour.
It's the same thing every other dying city is attempting to do in order to bring back their tax base. Especially since they gave away all their tax revenue from businesses so that revenue from individuals is all that's left. It worked sooo well in Detroit...
The only advantage Columbus has is that they're building just enough housing IN the city to boost the population numbers, but Cleveland still has a higher GDP. Go figure.
America lacks safe, viable, walkable, culturally rich towns and cities with good public transportation. Build it anywhere and most people wouldn’t move there for one reason or another. They will stick to their boring suburban life.
I was listening to the list of process steps and mentally inserted cleaning after every step, more and more anxious you’d left it out. 😅 Thank goodness, and thank you.
Kumamon agreed
500 billion in student loan forgiveness makes the 16B subsidy to TSMC a drop on the bucket. The return on investment would also be tremendous. Imo.
I have prediction: EU fab will be running before Americans get their pieces together.
Not really.
Tesla factory set on fire by European environmentalists.
Doubt it
Can you please explain what is the meaning of what Dr.Morris Chang said below........ ?
Aug 6, 2023 --------TSMC founder Morris Chang was featured in a New York Times article that came out over the weekend. When asked about the Sino-U.S. competition for semiconductor supremacy, the chip titan said China doesn’t have much of a chance to gain the upper hand.
China faces couple of problems that prevents them from doing so. Given the right environments they can do it but China alone cannot develop such advanced chips. That's why they rely so much on sending students abroad. But that's not the only problem. China needs investors and nobody wants to partner up with any Chinese semiconductors. Nvidia, Intel, AMD, etc. Another factor is the pollution. It requires very clean water and clean air to produce high end chips.
I know this might not be super up your alley, but I would love a video where you discussed the discovery of the double helix and subsequent dna developments. Seems like the kind of thing you could do a lovely analysis on.
That chart showing how Japan builds fabs faster than Taiwan, China or Korea is interesting. Japanese construction is just on another level. In railway construction JR leads in construction speed and solid earthquake resistance. Fast but also carefully engineered. I saw Kanazawa Station before the earthquake and noticed all the quake dampers on the columns.
Cant agree about speed on construction. Remember the nagasaki shinkansen or rinkai line wich is only 6 km needs 20 years of construction
@@adiba9734Japan has Shinkansen since when? 1964.
There is many earthquake in Japan. So the delay is mostly because of this in calculation.
@@JapanQuest theres nothing to do with that tbf. Most of japanese infrastructure was built faster before 90s. Just take a look at the hokuriku shinkansen that take more than 17 years to complete just 300km lengt compare to tohoku shinkansen that just need 10 years to complete 400km of tohoku line. The same problem was also happen oversea that the jakarta mrt extension need 7 years to built just for 6km of lengt that built by japanese contractor.
@@adiba9734 because Japan focus on high quality. The quality is way above China.
You didn’t include Singapore in the ballgame. GF Fab7H was promised to be completely build up in 2 year but did in 1 and a half year. Same with Micron and ST Micro.
your way of speaking is so pleasant, thank you putting such effort in making free high quality videos.
Honestly TSMC should just give up on US.
US will always favor their own companies which will only hurt international companies in the long run
Sure thing China bot. Cope and seethe tiny pipe.
Actually the U.S. and Japan are trying to share the hegemony of the semiconductor industry. It is not a problem to be solved only by giving up the United States😅
I have to wonder how much a 16 hour time difference makes as well. If my work day starts as yours end, makes it hard to collaborate.
Most significant is a ~4 vs. ~5 day work week would create a gap, unless the weekend at one location offset by a calendar day to local time. A 16 hour workday difference would be more easily handled as 8 hours (+1 day) difference.
But fabs are usually running 24hrs with engineers on shifts so time zone shouldn’t be that much of an issue unless we are talking about suppliers and supply chain issues
10:30 Multiple great pyramids
" 28.9.2023 - With China already boasting chip subsidies worth at least $150 billion in 2022 .. "
" a proposal made at this spring’s annual session of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference urged national-level policymakers to align China’s various semiconductor development efforts into “one chessboard,” meaning a single national strategy. ... "
Very insightful as always. Each episode I learn a multiple interesting and new (to me) things.
A couple of points not covered in this TSMC in Japan vs. TSMC in Arizona.
1. Time zones: Taiwan and Japan are just an hour apart. Taiwan and Arizona are 15 hours apart (different workday).
2. Southwest U.S. is very depended on Colorado river for water, particularly AZ, CA, NM. Searching "TSMC Arizona Water" has some interesting results. All water will be recycled. A foreign policy article titled "No Water, No Workers, No Chips" mentions an Israeli company secured a $5 Billion U.S. contract to desalinate seawater and pump it over 200 miles to the Phoenix region. The article also offers an estimate start timeframe of 2025/26. Water might be a contributing factor for delay in becoming operational.
*If, **_as you say,_** "tolerances" of N4 are "less forgiving" **_( than lager NM rated chips )_** ... why do you insist that N-size is not quantifiable ?* From what I have gleaned.... _please correct me if I am wrong...._ the EUV beam width measured in NM is responsible for overall semiconductor density, thus, performance. _( You can squeeze more stuff onto a chip.)_
IIRC Intel stopped quoting size in nm a couple years ago, they said it didn't make sense anymore because there was no industry standard for exactly what it measures. Intel had been saying their 10nm was equivalent to TSMC 7nm.
Look at # of transistors per unit area. mm^2
I was working on the TSMC Arizona fab 21. The entire project is and was a fiasco.
in both of these countries with advanced economies, the only think stopping anything from happening can be A: red tape from governments, or B: money.
BoJ has negative interest rates still, so I am going out on a limb and guessing it was a money access thing, Japan just gave them more.
Americans enjoy the advantage that talents from all over the world cooperate with the United States in speaking English. Once Americans want to learn another language, it will be very painful for Americans.
I use to work as a concrete truck driver for Calportland and I have delivered concrete many time to the tsmc Arizona location.
What a great video! Very well done! Thank you.
$16B? That's only another day and a half of National Debt.
😅Why don't you look into the other side of Financial statements , capital, saving etc. IMF announced that most balanced healthy Financial statement in the world is Japan.
Said debt is mostly owed to domestic bond holders
Its safe
Yes, it's ture the our debt stays with BOJ, but none of us have rights to use it so it doesn't matter. It's like you have a safe with full of cash in, but only someone else has the key to open it.
About your comments at 3:00, you shouldn't let something so small like money get in the way of politics, money wont stop the mainlanders from just taking stuff by force if allowed
3:44 I noticed you never mentioned whether they had actually bought any of the machines yet? If they were slow walking in the us then all they would need to do is just not buy those machines you mentioned (after all what would be the point in buying them before the building is done, even better sense they require so much lead time) until they were ready to actually finish the project, helped by the fact big companies in Taiwan are a lot more tied to the government (both officially and unofficially) .
Re TSMC having trouble recruiting American workers - Do you want fries wid dat ?
"Im legaly obligated"..
Good law.. really good law. It need to be enforced a bit harder.
I think because Aisa people (and I am Taiwanese) can work over 12~24 hour and still 24h on call ready to emergency work on holiday. Compared with us, Westerners are too lazy and want too much money, and have too many requirements and dissatisfaction with the working environment. If people in a place are too comfortable, sooner or later they will lose their industrial advantage and lose the market. If you can't 24 /7 If you meet the needs of customers on call 365 days a year, you will lose your market, especially when your product delivery period is much higher than that of products of the same level and quality in Asia.
Especially in Europe, their high-tech electronics and software industries have lost their competitiveness in the world. They can only rely on "antitrust laws" to collect money from big companies such as Google and Apple and force the market to open up. Instead of respecting the choices of our users, they The industry has been so desperate that it must rely on unfair competition from the government to survive.
TSMC is doing better in Japan likely for the same reason that Toyotas and Hondas made in Japan have fewer defects and have lower tolerances for things like body panel gaps, than Toyotas and Hondas made in North America: the workers in Japan have a better work ethic and are more conscientious. Just ask RUclipsr Scotty Kilmer, the auto mechanic with 55 years of experience.
This does not mean that Japanese culture is "better" than American, as the Asianometry host hastens to say, perhaps needlessly concerned with a backlash. It does mean that culture affects work and our attitudes toward it and, for whatever reason, this may yield differing results in terms of quality and efficiency.
I don’t believe Toyota invested directly in the first fab. It was only Sony and Denso. The figures you showed were for the second fab.
I see a huge potential problem with new fabs in US, Japan, SK, Germany.
The motivation for that is the risk of China's actions disrupting chip supply from Taiwan, leading to another, and potentially devastating and long, chip shortage. It is, therefore, essentially, an insurance premium, driven by fear of possible trouble, rather than demand.
So what happens if China does *not* annex Taiwan or attempt to? Surely there will be significant excess capacity world wide, which could in turn cause serious profitability problems for the likes of TSMC. Are state and federal governments in these countries going to step in with more cash to keep the plants open? The politics of that are fraught, to say the least.
As long as Taiwan remains the source of most chip supply, fabs elsewhere to insure against disruption must necessarily be excess capacity.
At least in theory the extra capacity would result in lower prices for chips [leading to more demand to use them]. Though maybe TSMC will build less capacity in Taiwan then they previously would have to avoid lowering prices [they could afford some price reductions due to the subsidies given].
Usually when that happens tariffs will be applied pretty quick
Everybody is building out supercomputers for AI research, plus infrastructure for AI applications, so there will be plenty of demand, at least for the higher end nodes.
Good thing Intel is building its own competing semiconductor production here.
There is a huge supply glut in mature nodes 28nm and larger. THe build up in Japan, Gemany, India , even global foundaries in US, is matched by a build up in China. The glut will last a decade, and it will deprive the companies the profit that funds R/D.
I’m a 10 minute drive from the Arizona plant & it has been a circus to say the least.
I think the biggest difference is the work culture in Japan is much closer to Taiwan than it is in America.
Thanks for the continued clarifications that process node names are nothing but labels at this point. Mainstream press continues to see nodes like “N3”, then “helpfully” extrapolate that to “3nm” when writing articles about new TSMC chips. Even industry-related sites like TrendForce, who should know better, perpetuate these falsities
Can you do a video talking about the difference between internal and external Chinese currency?
Even ignoring the many many logistical and workforce advantages Japan has over the USA in semiconductor manufacturing... The Bureaucracy of the USA is something else. And on top of that America easily has the worst parasitic load of grossly overpaid administration and Investors globally, where money is being made they will be trying to crash the party by any means possible, even if that means ending it.
Because Japan has overtime culture , in US people leave at work at 3:30 , they may log on to work but depend on the productivity,
Japan education and discipline are 300x better that's why
The goal is productivity and Japanese workers are not always more productive.
Japs live and breathe for their company
@@tacticlolproductive? Is that why Intel is 2 years late with every chip? Is that why 3 of the 4 TILEs on Intel’s MTL are made by TSMC?
@@tringuyen7519 How well are the Japanese chip producers doing?
@@tacticlol The Formula of productivity is very misleading, because it is based on GDP...
Due to this formula, Ferrari workers are "more productive" than Toyota workers because their products worth more.
But in reality, we know who works better.
Well, it's not a coincidence that oil countries don't appear on the index of productivity 💀
Should i buy japanese semiconductors stocks?
Japan is a better choice for TSMC as technology is readily available and is nearer than other alternatives. And also Japan is better especially if China becomes more aggressive toward Taiwan.
And also Japan is surrounded by water. No other country can offer more water security to this plants than Japan and Taiwan.
I think one of the big problems with Arizona is our housing market, our inability to continue to build our water limitations and our social, the problems with the border.
Arizona was a good yet bad choice to build
Thank you for sharing these detailed observations.
I think a lot of you need to do some more research on the matter and talk to those who work there. What goes on and has until this point will blow your mind.
Why would TSMC have not just partnered with AMD for assistance with the Arizona fab? They are their largest customer, they are headquartered in Texas, they are not a competitor, and they used to own Global Foundries so they have to know a little about the process. Seems like a no brainer.
Does AMD even run any fabs anymore?
It's not up to TSMC but uncle Sam, TSMC knew it won't work because its founder, Morris Chang, work most of his life in America and specializes in semiconductor industry, he knew already, but Biden insist to do it this way so US can secure these chip as national strategy resources.
The problem is, when TSMC did come under the pressure, US offers almost ZERO help, kinda just left TSMC die out there by itself and expect them to understand everything in US including laws, people, culture, which is unbelievable when you have to work with a partner from another country, like seriously dude? But America just did it like it's normal.
I think Biden and his team and perhaps in the entire US, no one knows about chips any more, that's why they make a such decision, and then expect TSMC to build a fab here like China builds a low end manufacturing factory, apparently no one know chips and TSMC in America, but Japan does, and this is the result.
Americans were trying to blam it on TSMC being unprofessional with labor laws and building fabs, but what they did in Japan instantly proves Americans wrong, but Americans are too proud to admit they're behind and know nothing and perhaps lazy, so this just keep dragging on
Now Japan just announced there will be a 2nd chip fab in Kumamoto, but I guess by the time they finished the 2nd one in Japan, Arizona still can't finish its first TSMC fab looool
@@yaya5tim I get that, but it seems like an obvious pairing and would make the construction and startup operations so much faster. Not like the government is great at planning ahead though.
@@jimgolab536 no, but this is more about helping TSMC deal with local government and people.
@@kornydad14 haha, the problem is still the uncle Sam...... I'm sure you know this already, but just in case you don't, and no offense by all means if you're an American, in some TSMC's ex higher-ups' eyes, Americans have a very big ego, and this is basically the problem
The government wants TSMC to be at US, but they do not want TSMC working with American companies and collab with the technology R&D, they want to have their own ecosystem set up and keep it American.
So AMD with TSMC? Dude AMD is generous enough to hire a Taiwanese to be its CEO, no way they're going to allow themselves to work with a non-American company.
If US government won't allow TSMC to work with anyone they wish and offer zero help, this is the result, and apparently US government wants it this way.
Dude if you can think of it, TSMC is full of PhD engineers, and these PhD engineers turned into sales and advisors and managers and strategist, you think they don't know that?
Now there's many experts and ex TSMC higher-ups think US is trying to dragging TSMC down just so Intel can catch up
Why? they only give TSMC 5 billion USD(according to Bloomberg)so far, very far away from the amount they were going to invest, and TSMC have to pay out of its own packet for 40 billion USD, this is a losing money business that TSMC is doing right now.
and guess how much Japan gave TSMC? 8 billion USD, on top of that TSMC invest 20 billion USD and have 86.5% of the Japanese chip fab, the other % is co-invested by Sony's semiconductor department, so not only Japan is giving more money right away, they also help TSMC to reduce the cost of building chip fab in Japan.
Bro, TSMC throw 40 billion USD to US for sack of Biden, and look at what US is doing to TSMC?
And don't even try to mention how this is US "protecting Taiwan in case China invades", bro, do you know Taiwan bought a lot of weapons from US before and after Ukraine War breaks out? All of them are delayed...... most of them are already expiring from the due date for shipping, and this is how US trying to protect Taiwan and TSMC...... I feel like US is more like trying to make thing worse
So sorry if you're an American, but your government that your people voted for......... I don't know what to say, maybe in the end of day you do want to see Taiwan become part of China and see China try to steal more advance chip tech secret then surpass US, if that's what Americans want, sure we can't do anything and just wasting all of our efforts fighting Communist China in the front line all these time.
I just disappointed in US government and US voters, like how do you allow these people to show up and lead your country? They don't know anything and even make things worse for their allies......
I'm not in semiconductors, but some years ago Huawei offered me an EMEA job with amazing comp.
But I turned it down, much to their horror, because they wanted me to spend two months in China training.
I had a young child who had health issues, so there was no way I was going to be away for that long.
Drove by the TSMC factory in Kumamoto, Japan a couple weeks ago. A large facility and it’s already expanding the site.
I wish all my other news and educational content was this good.
ive been following your channel for at least a year maybe a few and i swear this is the first time im learning that 4nanometer isnt literal haha thank you very much appreciate the learning
Incredible report, you just don’t get this info elsewhere
There is no point in sugarcoating how bad USA has been for TSMC fab construction. Doesn't make sense why they are taking such huge cash burn investment. Maybe in the next shareholder meeting people directors will discuss on this.
US govt made TSMC do it in exchange for protecting Taiwan from a Chinese invasion. It’s all US taxpayers money funding the AZ project.
Notice they use English for their initialisms. English: Breaking the curse of Babel one syllable at a time. 0:16