*DEBATE* | Shaykh Asrar Rashid (Muslim) vs Guy Otten (Atheist)
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- Опубликовано: 20 ноя 2018
- On Monday 12th November 2018, Madinah Society hosted a debate between Shaykh Asrar Rashid and Guy Otten, Chair of Greater Manchester Humanists, at The University of Manchester.
Both speakers presented 20-minute presentations on the existence of God and non-existence of God, respectively. After which the floor was open to audience members to question the speakers on the debate topic.
WATCH TILL THE END
Note: there were some technical difficulties in uploading the HD version of the video, the previous upload had to be deleted.
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My brother's knowledge of Islam demonstrates his dedication to Allah.
The Athiest guy saying Allah should have created a perfect Universe if He's perfect, was answered by Imam Ghazali hundreds of years ago.. He said this is actually a perfect world, humans just dont have the long-sightedness to see the perfectness, its like zooming into a portrait and thinking that little piece is the whole portrait but you cant zoom out and see the full picture.. Many Imams disagreed with him but still, we already answered this question in our tradition
Converted to Islam in 92 in Manchester, didn't need any proof my soul felt the reality, AlhumduLILLAH.
For someone who's supposed to be uncertain about everything, he seems to be very certain that God doesn't exist.
Asrar did great! actually the appendix has tons of benefit with gastrointestinal bacteria and its storage. so it does have benefit, not to mention just because we dont know the benefit of something doesnt mean it has no benefit.
That right there demonstrates Guy's fallacies... Particularly since "we don't know" is one of his main arguments 🤷♂️
Give it a few years, they will doscover it has purpose. They initially concluded there are more than 5 organs which are useless it uas gone down to 1
damn my appendix bursted so i had to get it removed via surgery
The first debate I've seen in a while where both sides observed the rules impeccably therefore was very interesting to watch 👍
Hi Sheik Asrar,
Now I like you , I like this kind of intellectual debate , this is what Imam Abu Hanifa was doing , keep up the good job , I am sure you can do it ,
Saleem
The humanist professor finds the morality of the Qur'an "unacceptable" because it (the Qur'an) finds disbelief unacceptable.
Shaykh Asrar trashed the opposition. Another victory for Islam.
Wow thanks. Good! More dialogue please guys
1:24:00 - Wow, Shaykh Asrar really calls the professor out. Earlier on in the debate, the professor said that there is no such thing as a perfect anything (he even denies that there is such a thing as a "perfect cup of tea"). So how then can he deny that a perfect anything exists (including a Perfect God), if he cannot come up with a perfect definition of "perfection"? And if he says that he *can* come up with a perfect definition of "perfection", then he has contradicted himself, because he has admitted that a perfect something (eg. a perfect definition of "perfection") *can* exist!
That's like saying how can we talk about infinity if infinity doesn't exist. We can still talk about it because it's a concept that we can understand even if it doesn't exist in reality
@@Simon-rs7zt how can you say infinity doesn't exist in reality???? In physics, while comparing two numbers like 1 and 100000000000000000, the 100000000000000000 is taken as infinity with respect to 1. Somtimes infinity is difficult to define it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
you could have said that it is beyond imagination. Learn to keep your point.
The humanist professor observes that we are "an insignificant spec of dust in the wider cosmos". Why does he have so much faith in the morality system that this insignificant spec of dust has arrived at in only the past 30-40 years (which I would say is an insignificant spec of time in the wider history of time!)? Why should the whimsical modern opinions of this insignificant spec of dust command my loyalty or obedience? In other words, why should I obey or follow this insignificant spec of dust, especially if it often means going against my own material interests and well-being?
You have absolutely no reason to besides _"because it's right"_ or _"because it's known to be true."_
The final conclusion is "WHERE THERE IS DESIGN, THERE IS DESIGNER". i want to elaborate some points, I am a science student(computer science engineer),let see the world according to scientists-What is the probability of getting billions of marbles in appropriate position if anyone throw it randomly?it is almost zero.Now lets see big bang theory it is saying that every thing is created perfectly after blast, how is it possible, according to probability rule?impossible without any designer. Have u ever searched ur body structure, it is very complicated. Can u make the picture of monalisa by throwing random colors on the wall?no then how it is possible our body is created by itself which is far more complicated than monalisa... Darwism,neo Darwinism, lamarckism they r only theories and and it can be changed according to time. Do u want see proof of GOD then see urself u will find that there is someone who created this body ,it is not a random product. and That #CREATER is #ALLAH SWT.
They won't put their life on it.
But are willing to put theyre afterlife on it.
I can feel compassion inside you. May Allah SWT increase your knowledge and bless you with more Love of His beloved Prophet ﷺ
@@diefaust4252 yep . Allah says in the Quran something along the lines of "Rather they are not certain" it's just a guessing game . Creation is evidence for the creator . Simple
@@saadusman6617 بَلْ لَا يُوقِنُونَ
Lovely warm friendly opening ❤️
"we don't know" is NOT evidence.
ﷺ
loved this civil and intellectual debate, Guy Otten's openning was amazing he did a great job and covered most important points , we all need to educate ourselves so we can come to a more correct conclusion, I believe only science and history is considered education, learning about theology is indoctrination not education. education is where you don't already have answers its when you are forced to a conclusion per your findings and evidence.
So history is true except when it proves religion (i.e. witness testimonies about miracles). Also logic goes out the window, and is replaced by 'you dont know so stop using your head'. Yup, doesnt sound like indoctrination at all. Thk humans for the objective human morality..
If someone warns us not to go down a certain road because there is danger there, we might shrug our shoulders & ignore them. Later, if another person came & warned us of the same thing, we would think a little bit more about going down the road. But if a third person warned us we'd start to think seriously about it & be very reluctant to go down the road. My point being, many many Prophets of God have come to humanity throughout history warning us to believe in their Creator God & to live by His commandments. That's how humanity has learnt about God.
guy said in his closing statement that using logical deduction is done in your head (trying to prove the point that logical deduction cannot then be used as evidence), however, he then said we need something that is real, tangible, or observable, but to use your observation, you need to use your intellect to observe something in the first place. Meaning, he just didnt like the fact using deduction, which is done by using ones observation of the world around, points one in the direction to confirming the belief in the existence of a creator.
1:50:00
Additionally, guy could not disprove the existence of a creator while the Muslim was able to do so using logic, which shows the debate was won by the Muslim by a landslide
Don't criticise atheists. They ignore The creator because they don't have the full knowledge of almighty. Let's pray for their hidayath. No one like another human taste hellfire for ignorance.
Enjoyed that debate.
Both sides argued their case well.
Does someone please show me the link to the part 1 of this discussion. Thanks
The existence of God is a subject of debate in the philosophy of religion and popular culture. A wide variety of arguments for and against the existence of God can be categorized as metaphysical, logical, empirical, or subjective. In philosophical terms, the question of the existence of God involves the disciplines of epistemology (the nature and scope of knowledge) and ontology (study of the nature of being, existence, or reality) and the theory of value (since some definitions of God include "perfection"). The Western tradition of philosophical discussion of the existence of God began with Plato and Aristotle, who made arguments that would now be categorized as cosmological.
1:24:00 Asrar really put him in a logical strangle hold. Damn
May Allah Bless you Shayekh
Fist Cause Of This World or All Universe
56:05 2 Questions
55:53 Guy Otten Answer 1
57:54 Guy Come To The Real Answer
58:29 Guy Otten said that "We Do Not Know (How Big Bang Started / First Cause) and It is Wrong to trying guess 😂
58:48 Shaykh Asrar Rashid Answer 1
59:28 Shaykh Asrar Rashid Answer 2 About First Cause
La ilaha ilallah, la ilaha ilallah,la ilaha ilallah
Muhammad ♡ Ur RasoolAllah ﷺ
Islamic Shahada Starts with the verse There are No Gods except one ☝️.
It's sheer arrogance to believe only humans can exist why can't a powerful God exist
this atheist 0+0=1 guy is a clear example of what happens when you lack common sense.
brother can you give me your instagram or fb.... i'd like to become brothers with you
@@239muhammadfaizaanakram4 I dont have f.b, if you want something just tell me here brother
@@traditionalsunni629 from which country are you?
@@239muhammadfaizaanakram4 Karachi, Pakista bro
@@traditionalsunni629 ok
Shaykh Rashid I love you YARASOLALLAH S.A.W.W help us........
Ali khan only Allah can help
The Prophet صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ سَلَّمْ cannot help except ONLY by the permission of Allah
He has left this world so how can he help now
@@shaykhanonymous who told you like that Islam is not from your Mom okay what a rubbish thought you have......
*istigathah is ALLOWED?*
Dua, which is clearly an EBAADAH . Must never be confused with istigathah.
Istigathah is easily to be confused with dua. Istigathah to other than Allah, not with intention of Ebaadah is fine. This does NOT effect Tawheed. However for the laymen , it is very dangerous grounds who obviously can not differentiate between the two. (As Shamsi you said in Tunisia, Pakistan etc..)
WITHOUT associating iluhiyyah , Istigathah is NOT shirk. To label a person who keeps this clear distinction is severely wrong also.
This distinction HAS to be *always* kept by anyone who so called "uses" Istigathah as any means.
1) Dua = ebaadah.
2) and Istigathah = spiritual conversation, but NOT in any form directing it as Ebaadah.
This distinction a MUST and should be mentioned clearly amongst Sunni Ahlul-Tasawwuf (who are NOT same as Shia Mutasawwif, so don't stroke with one brush )
Nevertheless, to not have this knowledge and distinction clear as crystal, is likely to become a fitna and dangerous for their Iman.
Also , it is NOT Wajib to do (as it is not from daleel-Qatii from Nass) , but Istigathah is spiritual Communication. Spiritual encounter exists and is haqq. Nowhere should that be confused with Ebaadah.
I disagree with M.ibn Abdul Wahab's definition in the Kitab of *tawheed" and those who propagated the same rhetoric. My definition or istigathah with other than Allah does NOT entail Ebaadah. Word istigathah in Holy Qur'an when with Allah would and should be Ebaadah if done solely for him with sincere intentions ofcourse. Allah Alon befits and deserves Uuluhiyyah. Worship is For Him ALONE.
Dua is for Him Alone.
Worshipful-Dua to others is a shirk in His Uliuhiyyah. Which He Only deserves!
Ali Khan ensure that you include (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ سَلَّمْ)
@@boejiden.1445 copy pasting takfeeri kharji spotted
Rational logical response by Shaykh asrar rashid
Jazakanlah heiran Rashid and may Allah bless and guide all muslims.
This is what a debate with Asrar needs - a chair who states who can speak
Salamo3alaykom. I don't want to watch the debate because it's too long. Who has won the debate?
1:24:00 is gold.
Bart Ehrman never said that Jesus maby did not exist. Its the totl opposite. Go and check it up ;)
Why does atheists bother with those who believe in God
I got an answer to guys question he said why god created apendix it doesnt benifit or do anything but I say it does but humans havent figured it out yet everything the creator creates has a purpose just cos we dont know anything doesnt mean we can say this is flawed
Does sheikh debate Christians
He plans inshallah in the future too
Recently he did.
It looks like Guy otten’s life is solely based on Language ... everything is language for him 🤦🏻♀️
اللهم صل وسلم على سيدنا ومولانا محمد عبدك ورسولك النبي الأمي وعلى آله وصحبه وسلم
MashaAllah MashAllah MashAllah israr brother
Sad to hear (08Minutes40Seconds) that the existence or non-existence of God, is not a concern. Which could me "So what if there is a God? I still don't care". Which kinda waters down this debate to verbal masturbation. (Sadly so).
But I enjoyed the points of Asrar where he explains the differences in Methodologies of analysis between the Humanists and Islam. Humanists use data to get to an inferred conclusion from archeologists and artifacts. Islam uses a process called verification. So Humanists use an "Inference" method, whilst Islam uses a "Verification" method.
But after watching this whole video, I still do not understand what would a Humanist be looking for in terms of "Gods Existence". What is this tangible thing they are looking for? There is nothing tangible in Darwinism, except for observing the data collected to come to an inferred thought of creation. Just like there is nothing tangible in proving God, except in looking at the communication of God through his Last Book (Quran) and the unification of messages from Him, from all His messengers who were all spread across in different time lines. Has the Humanist looked at the impossible Challenges that God gives Man to perform as an evidence?
I don't think I can understand the rational thinking of the Humanist if they accept the intangible evidence of Darwinism, but not the intangible evidence of the communications of God.
ahmednmayob Ahmad! God is a hidden reality that can discern through inferential logic. This universe exist, it means someone must be there who had created this universe. The argument of the first cause is the ultimate logical argument that proves the existence of God. Look at the irrationality of these humanists, they don’t know what caused the Big Bang but still being not knowing, they are not ready to accept either religious answer just because it is given by any religion. On the other hand, we have rational argument that if we follow the first cause in regressive sequence, it is infinitive, we must have to stop at first cause that is infinitive. This logical infinitive is God. Interestingly, religious argument appears true in the light of this regressive first cause argument. Now, decide yourself, we have two options to choose from: to accept humanist position, knowing nothing beyond Big Bang and waiting for years more to see the evidence explored by science or to accept the answer given by religion that satisfies reason and logic.
We need to full stop proving our Deen ul Haqq,,, to these lose and lost souls in Jahannam. Just like Zombies Nations before them same exact path. There is nothing to prove there is nothing to do call debates...
I guess, looking at the bigger picture, these debates helps strengthen the belief of our weaker Muslims as well as forming da'wah for the non-Muslims.
even we need these debates to strengthen our belief Imaan and move it from the Imaan Taqleedi to Imaan e Yaqeeni/stronger.
@@WithoutFameGames no you are wrong. as i said imaan taqleedi is weak and must be made strong.
@@WithoutFameGames stay blessed my brother.
What is your effort in being a Muslim. If there is a person not born in a Muslim family its our liability to share the true message with him. Irrespective of the results wether he accepts or not
Debate Shia. Probably have more in common with Shia extremist than they do deobandi or wahabi salafis
Why did Allah (SWT) create us? The answer:
Allah (SWT) never created anything in vain.
A man was not created to eat, drink and multiply alone.
Allah (SWT) created us to be tested.
Allah (SWT) created us to worship Him alone.
“Confusing organized religion with a belief of god” is a very silly statement. It’s a distinction without a difference.
51:00, 54:00 (is actually inccorect modern science has determined the heart does have an effect), 1:13:00
Asrar given some of the tangible Burhaan are indisputable
islam Zindabad
1:35:10 Shaykh Asrar with a hilarious response 😂😂👏👏
o thanks for mentioning it here brother. I just listened it. Really good
hilarious reply too
if professor thinks we should live with probability then i must tell
find out the conditional probability of things which were told 1400 yrs ago and are established facts today. It's success probability would come as 0.0000001. Who can write the Quran with such an accuracy? Hence we say we are bound to say we being muslims are living in probability with an accuracy of 99.999999% or even more .... since science is still in growing phase and there much more in Quran which to provide a research area.
Hi Sheik Asrar,
We are all human beings and we do make mistakes , but God did not create evil and he created Ibliss with a freewill , just like Human , but Ibliss decided to go astray and to drive people astray.
Saleem
Saleem Roumaldaro in Islam all good and evil comes from God. He is the all powerful all knowing.
@@LeonardoSummers
God Created Jinn but not evil , Jinn decided to become evil . These are 2 different things.
Saleem
Saleem Roumaldaro so you’re saying that God is incapable of creating evil. God is the soul creator of everything.
Allah swt states in the Quran that He created evil, see Surah Al Falaq (113).
A good discussion. Very well organised.
The argument of uncertainty is sketchy for me as we are certain of many things in life.
But it seems, Guy only accepts empirical evidence and discards inductive/deductive reasonings as "mental gymnastics."
There is more than one type of epistemological basis to derive certainty from.
Well respected discussion, thank you madinahsoc.
From the outset my Muslim brother makes two weak arguments, mountain man, veracity of chain of narration.
Would you like to elaborate your point
God made everything in pairs.
Opposites define each other.
Cant have one without the other.
Good and Evil
Problem of evil presupposes LOVING God. If my dad is cruel, he is still dad though not loving.
I like it
Who said God is cruel. And why are u comparing a limited being to the creation of everything
Good debate. I thought shaykh Asrar did well, but he's certainly no hamza tzortzis or mohammed hijab who would have destroyed this guy even worse.
xingyimaster1987 he's no Wahhabi ether
I respect Hijab, he went out to the US destroyed that kazzab wood.
@@Gog3453 Is Hamza Tzortzis a Wahhabi? I don't believe he is, maybe Hijab yes, but not Tzortzis.
Faithful Soldier and that’s problematic in it self
Hijabs expertise is in comparative religion. He recognizes Al-Azhar, and the classical Sunni scholars such as Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti (ra). He went out to the US and humiliated the kazzab wood, for the entire world to see. For that i think Sunnis must show him respect, he also routinely uses his platform to take on zionist fraudsters like "tommy robinson/Yaxley Lennon kazzab, condell kazzab, mcinnes maloon, crowder mardood, harris dajjal..etc, AND the rafidhis.
He's also directed the youth into looking at taking up grappling (by inviting Firas Zahabi on his channel, and to a lesser extent by going onto the channel run by Eddie Redzovic).
Shaykh Ibrahim Osi Efa (hh) and Greensville trust have done similar via Sidi Nisar Shaikh, and the Futuwwa Sports program.
Meanwhile, the disco molvi who claims to be ASWJ (but isn't) "abu layth" of birmingham is inviting the rafidhis round for tea and biscuits, and has close links to *Prevent.*
It is what it is, just like one must respect Maulana Sanaullah Amritsari (ra) for his decimation of the fraudulent non-Muslim dajjalic cult of qadianism.
Hijab focuses mainly on comparative religion, he isn't one of these "engineeri firqa"/ghamidi/disco molvi types who are causing very real and serious fitna.
Our Lord Is One, Allah Al Mighty The Loving God Created The Great Sky With Van Allan Belt, Solar Motion And The Beautiful Universe From Nebular, God Is Clouse to Our Jagular Vein . Love God And Love Human Being God Willing We All The God Lovers Will Be In The Paradise With Loving God In The Etternnal Plesure . Amen
Tekbir allahu akbar
Why not debate a gay Muslim man or woman that I would love to see
Why would you love to see that?
And there is no such thing as a gay Muslim, you can't practice Islam and homosexuality at the same time.
12:18 "Iman Darwin" lol.
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
"Our imam Darwin"*
That was a good one. I give him that. LOL
1.47 Shiekh did'nt answer the Question well.
The answer simply is that those jewsh and Christians if they believe in prophet Muhammed and his message they ll enter paradise.
Jesus, Mosus, Mohammed and all the prophets followed one religion which is Islam
He answered it correctly the believe is to "islam" in it's linguistic meaning aka the Jews and Christians who believe in "islam" at the time and those to be determined in future. Recall that in had it is stated in Tirmidi that there will be 120 rows in paradise of which 40 rows will be from other than those who follow Muhammad (sw) aka other tribes.
Here s a statistic for the prof. The prophet saw unlettered has made over 100 predictions and the accuracy rate is 100%. If this isnt God then he must have time travelled cause that probability by pure chance is 0%
Honestly felt like Guy had no idea what he wanted -- he was trying so hard to not be disrespectful actually it seemed to just jump out as comments he would make here and there as "jokes".
Asrar was well collected whereas Guy just kept saying "dont know" but then contradict himself in everything
One thing i dont understand is instead of having all these debates and everyone being confused why doesnt god just show up and clarify for all of us. Like this atheist guy who wants evidence. If beliving is such a big thing god should just guide the man produce some evidence and thats it. Win win for everyone. Or if it was all true then everyone should have just been born with faith to god. Or Why would a creator allow his creation to worship someone else besides him and make them go on the wrong path. Shake my head.
Why is a student tested in an exam? Why doesn't the teacher simply promote him?
This world is like a test....
If I am commenting on this post....is it aimless? I am breathing...is it aimless? Is this debate aimless?? If the principal calls for any teacher....can a normal man think that there is completely no purpose behind it? No no and no....everything in this world...or in this universe has a purpose, and these are some very open signs.
@@239muhammadfaizaanakram4 but according to this example. All students have revised a different topic yet the test is the same. Also to become a student one must enrol in the class and know exactly what hes studying. If students in the class are not studying the right topic should the teacher still give the test. No because its not fair. Thats my point. God should have just guided everyone and made them born into the faith.
Billions of people are coming and going coming and going, even after a little bit of thinking about nature, can anybody imagine that all this is nothing? A man comes, eats, drinks and goes...billions came and went....all without any cause?
No....there is a cause behind it...we are here in a test.....so the one who will try to figure out the right path with the right intentions, Allah Almighty will surely guide that one to the right path.
Very good introduction by Guy Otten. The introduction of evolution to the question _"does God exist"_ is an awful red herring; the two have nothing to do with each other from a Deistic worldview.
Need more order is needed
RUclips can impose us silly islamists, it proves that allah exists. No other god is satanic enough to allow such thing.
Those who trust in JESUS shall have eternal life
JESUS (PBOH)is not GOD he cannot promise you anything study the corruption and see if you can find 1 true scripture
@@ahganchi John 1 1to 4 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with GOD and the Word was GOD He was in the beginning with GOD
@@ahganchi Matthew 28 verses 18 19 and 20 And JESUS came and spoke to them saying .All authority has been given to me in Heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you and lo ,I am with you always even to the end of the age Amen
@@christinedavies7371 The Sender has more authority than the Sent.
Read John 17:3
@@olurotimishuaib2129 John 17 .from verses 20 to 26
The wahabi and deobandi is debating only from sects which is present in our religion but scholar of ahle sunnah debates with the antagonist religion
Try to be one of them (Sunni student of knowledge) and introduce SHEAKH ASRAR to your friends. ❤️❤️
56:13 mitchell reunion or something
there are two groups the ahly sunnah wal jameah consensus moderate Muslims 😅. and the shiea groupings of Iran takfiri shiea rafidhi and takfiri wahabi salafi of bokoharam alshabab Egypt ikhwanul talyban Bangladesh pseudo salafi Philippines abusayaf ASEAN takfiri wahabi salafi Syria rebels lraq isis Pakistani tehrk talyban India tehrek talyban
1:24:00
Not believing in god, is actually the greatest evidence of a higher being
saif Malik
that's is just daft?
The "sheikh" uses punn words which are out of context, which he himself dont understand!!!
Explain.
Compilations of hadith blaspheme against the prophet
Why do you say this
@@smileyface8412 its compiled over 200 years after the death of the prophet, hence it cant be authentic!!! Furthermore theres blatant blasphemy and hadith which go against quranic principles
@@saif1980saif would u mention ehat the blasphemous things are and what goes against the islamic principles
@@smileyface8412 marriage!!! In order to marry one must consent!!! All hazrat aisha hadith are null n void as such a marriage cant have occurred as a 6 year old cant consent!!! The prophet only married a widow, from whom the bloodline was derived and consequently destroyed. A widows consent to marriage is most substantial as she knows what a marriage entails, a 6 year old has no comprehension of marriage
The Bible was inspired by GOD through Hie Holy Spirit
But no two manuscripts amongst thousands are identical then which one you will reffer to !
Brelvi brothers should sort their aqeedah out before debating others.
Surely you must have something better to do than leave negative comments on Sheikh Asrar's video. He is debating an atheist and yet your still like bidah, shirk, aqeedah.
hahaha 😂 piece of shits, you who cant face these athiests now want to stop those who can..? i think you are a salafi who believes allah sits on sky and comes down etc etc just like tour illegal father ibn taimmiya zandeeq