Three Arguments AGAINST Scottish Independence - TLDR News
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2021
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A while ago we made a video running through 3 reasons in favour of Scottish Independence, so now we're telling the other side of the story - the reasons to stay. So in this video we look at the reasons in favour of the union and why Scotts might be better off economically and politically remaining with the rest of Britain.
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If an independent Scotland doesn't start a new currency called the Poond, consisting of 100 Wee Poonds, then I'm against independence.
hahahhahahahha
What about Smackaronnies?
comment of the bloody year
What about the Wallace? Seeing as loads of separatists love to larp over him lmao
@@spoonkus5893 ohhhh here is another yoonie looney toon getting triggered because a country wants to run its own affairs like England did leaving the e.u
Could you do a video on the pros and cons of Scotland leaving from the perspective of the rest of the UK? I.e. would Scottish independence be a good or bad thing for England, Wales and N.I? Thanks!
Quick reply
They said a good thing for the economy (less subsidise to poorer regions)
Bad thing for prestige (you end the last remain of the biggest empire in human history)
@Brian Williams politically we are very different people though. Time and time again Scotland have shown we're more liberal leaning, England by stark contrast is by far more right leaning.
You can't ask these people to give opinions from Welsh, NI or Scotland. They are shockingly bad at UK politics, this video is one of the worst they have ever done and underlines their English bias.
They can only talk from an English view point but their arrogance here has led them to spreading false news and purposely misleading folks.
The English need to recognise the differences in regions and go it's the English driving the divide in the UK.
Love your videos
It would be a disaster for England.
Westminsters reliance on foreign products will be exposed further.
Why do you think Scotland sells 60% of its goods to England? Cause England produces nowt and relies on the financial markets.
Sterling is backed by Scottish oil so refusing to let Scotland use the pound would see a minimum of 10% of its value vanish overnight.
UK population density would skyrocket without around a third of UK land mass.
UK would lose around 30 billion a year from Scottish tax receipts which was spent on 'Uk projects' mainly in England, huge loss.
@@emib6599 no lol, Scotland gives UK money
No one gives a shit about prestige tho and in most modern English people's mind, the empire ended a long long time ago
Reason 4: I would miss them very much
We aren't going anywhere we just want a Scottish government fully running Scotland not English Tory party's 💩 on Scotland
Oh hello patterz
@@timjackson8516 you could vote for a party in Scotland that would out the Tories in the UK
We’ll still be right here and the best of friends. I love the English and Welsh but there is something about the Westminster political class (the likes of Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer) that is very frightening to many Scots. It’s disturbing that, no matter which way Scotland votes, we will always be outgunned at Westminster. A Union is supposed to be a partnership of equals but Scotland (nor Wales) are considered partners. They are considered territories. Possessions to be held on to.
@@timjackson8516 but Scotland clearly can’t look after its own money or pay for it’s people. Most English want Scottish independence but we don’t want to bail you out every other year and waste our money
Against breaking up the UK, but I can understand the motives. Having Boris Johnson in over the last few years, I've considered declaring independence from the UK for my flat.
I honestly think that independence is a bad idea, especially when the place that wants to secede is reliant on the handouts of the government they want to secede from.
Independence because of a government party is absurd. For one they will ruin the chances of a labour majority meaning any deal they wish to make in the next decade will have to be made with a passive aggressive Tory government who will no longer have to appease the Scots.
What was the worst thing he did ? Getting the brexit mess sorted in a month ? Furloughing everyone during covid ? Vaccinations for everyone 1 year after start of outbreak ? Getting the country up and running after covid quicker than any European counterparts? Promising Scotland 50b a year from UK ( last year 45 b)
You are a fool .
@@vampiregamingyt8754
Of course it is they think they can go running to Europe for the 50b a year they need ( independence my ass)
@@vampiregamingyt8754 let us leave then? We cannae have a voice on our own destiny just like you lads had with brexit? The “Union” has died
It’s a shame that under the border section you guys didn’t mentioned the problems around the possible arguments around sea borders. Given the amount of natural resources on the North Sea I can see that being an issue.
There is no problem as there is already a defined sea border between England and Scotland. However, Scotland would like the vast area taken into the English sector by Tony Blair before the independence referendum. No major issue as this will be determined by international law.
Indeed. Also let's not forget that the tax on ALL the oil fields is currently realised in England meanwhile they are technically in Scotland. And then the english call the scots poor and their economy shit and say that England has to send money to Scotland, lol XD Well, stop stealing the oil incomes then :D
@@craigevans6156 6000 Square miles in total.
@@craigevans6156 The "vast area taken into the English sector by Tony Blair" is in accordance with international maritime border conventions.
@@Grim_Beard almost follows UNCLOS rules except for how they deal with estuaries.
It's a minor change that's needed, going back to the 1999 border not at all pushed for by anybody serious about the matter.
If Brexit has taught us anything thus far it’s that a very gradual untangling of all that Scotland shares with the UK needs to be planned and we need none of the ‘get Brexit done’ mentality. Another lesson from Brexit is that people need to be told upfront exactly what independent Scotland actually means, so we know what we’re voting for. We need to see a level of seriousness that was severely lacking in Brexit and earlier independence campaigns. We need grown-ups in charge of negotiations, unlike the current shambles of Brexit.
Brexit and Scoxit are negotiators nightmares. Totally agree, a deal like that would take a very long time and we need serious people in charge of the deal
Well if you want to be told what leaving actually would mean no point asking sturgeons snp no truth ever comes out of there
Will not happen. Both the EU and Westminster refused to even contemplate negotiations prior to the Brexit vote and prior to the first Scottish indy referendum respectively. The power which wants to maintain the status quo typically refuses to enter negotiations until it is forced to.
@@campbella2796 well if sturgeon had won in 2014 would she be negotiating another of course not besides it was sturgeon and Salmond who used the phrase once in a generation not the unionists she’s a hypocrite
It’s not brexit it’s covid so easy to blame something you didn’t vote for and I can tell you take a look at IR35 concerning drivers also during covid 33000 have tests are cancelled
“Support Scottish independence or the union with our new pins” playing both sides eh 😂
Happened in Wallace days, people sitting on fence. Were called blister arses,. Scotland has no borrowing powers from Westminster so we owe them zero, can always get a loan and print money. Don't think so
@@greighamilton7335 oh I support Scottish independence 100%. You don’t need to convince me
Reason 4: where am I gunna keep my nukes now?... Hey Wales...
🤣🤣
They've thought of wales and dropped it,long time ago.
Nope,its got to be...
AUSTRALIA...YEAH...
An Almost nuke free uk...only american and our army/air force capabilities left.
What a relief!
Is another topic for the Welsh to sing about from the hilltops.....
In Wales we have an oven ready deep water port waiting for them in Milford Haven. Pembroke Dock used to be a Royal Naval dockyard and could be so again bringing some vitally needed jobs.
Davenport, Plymouth.
... so an independent scotland will have to use.... the man, the myth, the legend. Scot Sterling?
brilliant!
The SMACAROONI !!!
Pound Scots*
Pound Sterling was the currency of England pre-union.
Also pre-the Alien Act 1705, Pound Scots & Pound Sterling were equal.
The above act debased the Pound Scots to pressurise us into joining the Act of the Union 1707.
@@Cunny_Funt r/woooosh
@@Cunny_Funt
Seems like you missed the joke, good sir.
If they want to go they can, but they have to take Liverpool with them
😂😂
I mean there is that small Northumbria independence movement
@@evilgenius919 led by Uthred son of Uthred
@@FatRonaldo1 I undesrtood that reference
Next you'll be telling us to take Katie Hopkins and Piers Morgan too. Nucleur waste as well?
Lmao I love the intro promotion of the scotland pin and the UK pins. "I'm playing both sides, so I always come out on top"
I'd love a video on the arguments for and against independence from the perspective of the rest of the UK. Why would England want to keep Scotland etc.
You should watch Jacob Reese-Mogg's trip to Scotland during the 2014 vote on youtube, channel 4 or 5. Very good stuff.
Well for a start england desperately need Scotland's vast resources to flog off in a brexit selloff
Agree this is the more interesting topic.
Why Scotland needs the UK is obvious
I'm English and I would be completely heartbroken if Scotland left the UK.
Such an argument is the basis of some of sentiment behind Scottish independence.
This argument ‘why would England want to keep’ automatically invalided/ignores the existence or importance of Wales & N.Ireland.
Excellent video. As a pro-independence Scott, I see it as essential that the public are well informed about both the rests and benefits of independence, unlike the Brexit farce.
And I gues that's why independence isn't supported by most Scots.
@@sionsmedia8249 check the polls bud
It seems to me that the Brexiteers copied their arguments in 2016 from those the SNP used in 2014 - no downside, only an upside, we'll get whatever we want in negotiations with the union because it's in their interest as much as ours, and we'll save loads of money. Experience since 2016 has proved that that was hogwash in the case of Brexit. If the Scots choose independence then I wish them every success, but I hope they vote for it on the basis of truth not lies.
I’m an English Anti-Brexiter but I think Scotland should stay and devolution should end.
Your not a Scot. No Scot spells Scots in that fashion.
As Scotland gets closer to leaving the UK the crap from the media gets even more ridiculous.
Scotland won't be leaving the UK it's more likely the way things are going the Irish Republic will be re-joining! I give the Irish Republic 20 years and ten years for the EU to collapse!
So any English person saying "you shouldn't leave because you'll be ruined without us" should in fact rejoice at the possibility for Scotland to stop being a financial burden for England. 🙃
Yeah no, it may be a large financial cost to the UK, but if that was the most important part to the UK then England would want out not Scotland.
Scotland is more important than the financial cost as the UK can afford it, however if they leave the financial cost will have a massive effect on Scotland as they can't.
This is the 2nd part tho, this is against your vision,and you might angry with this, theres a part 1 there that might agree to your thinking, so yeah check it out
But it's true. Scotland is overly reliant on the rest of the UK for so much and not only is there the border issue mentioned in this video but also,.would what remains of the UK government really be willing to support Scotland after they just fragmented the country?
Hence why the UK gave up it's empire to local corrupt elites and literal massacres worse than the Holocaust.
Spot on - am hoping if the jocks get a referenda that the English also get a say - I’d def vote yes for them to go
In conclusion, Scotland can leave and be ruined, or stay and be ruined.
Yeah seems like for the Scots it’s damned if you do or damned if you don’t.
if by ruin you mean the english being able to move there but not doing it because you'd murder them then yes it will be ruined by staying (no but seriously how dose staying ruin it?)
I think Sotland would get rich if they joined the EU.
Theres a reason why Ireland has the second biggest GDP per capita of all EU countries. Its because english is kinda the universal world language. And foreign companies doing business in the EU like to set up their EU-headquarters in countries where management and employess understand the lacal language. And thrue that you get more new jobs and tax revenues.
A big plus for that is that Scotlands population is also not so big, so some companies moving there can already make a big differnce. Just like in Ireland ✌
@@loathecraft The English can't move there because there's no petrol.
@@muskoxi9886 Ye deffo not to do with the extremely low and borderline illegal interest rates....
Interesting that in your previous video in favour of Scottish independence, you used the argument of Scotland is the most educated country in Europe, by using the amount of people that has a university degree, but in this one the PISA metric as the worst in western Europe
They know nowt about Scottish politics or uk politics.
They use independence as clickbait
The two are not mutually exclusive, as they are measuring different things
What they forget to say which Pisa announced was there has been a few changes in PISA and they really can't be trusted right now.
most educated does not mean most well educated. if you were the latter you would understand that.
@@supremeleader9838 BUUUURRRRRNNNN 😂
I still don't understand why Scotland can't just do all these negotiations before becoming independent? Say a Scottish referendum succeeded, just have a couple of years to plan all these things and only then declare independence.
They would you vote for it then theres a 2 year deal period of doing that .
That sounds like what the UK did with Brexit. It's still gone awfully.
@@alphamikeomega5728 Ah i do think the SNP is a bit more serious in implementing things then Boris and co are.
@@arturobianco848 the downside is the SNP would have to negotiate with Boris and co, and the latter are not trustworthy, in fact the only thing you can say about the tories is that they are reliably crooked
@@iainmaclean1205 That can't be helped if they go for independence though they longer really have to wotty about that anymore.
Is the SNP assuming that Scotland will automatically be part of the Common travel area ?
should build a wall
rebuild hadrians wall
SNP don’t need a PR machine. Every time boris opens his mouth, Scotland is a step closer to independence.
_nice_
He really is like the British Trump, and I mean that he is really viciously hated by anyone who doesn't vote for him.
Weird then that Scottish independence is polling under 45% and falling...
@@emizerri LOL..you watch too much GBeebies! 62% in favour last time I looked!
@@emizerri it...isn't? during the pandemic it got close to 60% and has been sitting around 50/50 exactly for a while now
The deficit argument is an interesting one and often oversimplified. To be clear, the UK Gov is constantly running a huge deficit and that doesn’t seem to stop them. For Scotland the numbers get complicated because it’s often hard to measure exactly how much income Scotland brings in, for example VAT currently has no separation between taxes raised in Scotland and the rest of the UK, so there’s no way to accurately measure how much VAT Scotland brings in. That’s just one example, which is why I’m often sceptics of any numbers showing Scotland’s deficit. I also don’t think that’s a good argument, Scotland is on track to become Europe’s leader in renewable energy, that could bring in huge amounts of income for an independent Scotland, but I doubt that will be fully realised while Scotland is in the UK.
It's a strawman argument. Possibly the worst TLDR video to date.
Underlines how the English dont get UK politics
Cool but doesn’t the deficit matter because of EU requirements to join? Also renewable energy is cool but there’s an energy crisis right now partly because of wind energy failings so there is still some problems there.
It is also very difficult to work out how much each town/country actually does contribute as many businesses are National and based in London meaning that’s where their taxes are registered. I completely agree though that the deficit discussion is a completely disingenuous one when being made by a country that’s about £2,500bn in debt.
@@maxdavis7722 If I remember correctly the deficit is only considered for joining the Euro; And there’s a good argument for Scotland having its own currency, some of those points were mentioned in this video.
@@maxdavis7722 the amount of energy production by wind is only one factor, for example there was recently announced plans to build a huge turbine factor in Edinburgh. These kinds of investments don’t just mean high skilled jobs but they also means that Scotland will be increasingly seen as a global centre of expertise in that technology, which continues to attracts more investment.
A large part of the problem with uk/eu trade is that westminster kicked thier heels over getting customs arrangements setup and still dont have a new system in place and staffed, they're on yet another extension.
The money arguement always get made based on spending but never looks at potential income.
Bigger arguemnet to stay is that without the SNP the english dont have any consistent opposition party in westminster
Great video!
"Unionism in Ireland obviously has a more violent history than Unionism in Scotland."
William Wallace has left the chat.
William Wallace was in the 1300's, centuries before the union was created....
Well the unionists are infighting
And The Bruce, thousands of Jacobutes, the 1820 martyrs, Willie McCrae etc etc!!
You should do a video on what benefits (if any) for England and the rest of the UK if Scotland gets independence and what negatives for England and the UK if they do
It would lose a major trading partner and would have a big new border to police, not to mention the loss of Island status makes defence much harder. It would be bad for England too, just not nearly so bad as for Scotland.
@@alex29443 I know the easy ones but how much money do they make us. If we give them 2000 a person with English tax then surely we could be saving money if they left. I am a unionist btw but just want to know the exact cost and can't be asked to do all that research for no benefit
Virtually none, the spending argument is a red herring as smaller countries tend to be more efficient and have less large scale costs (namely military spending and infrastructure), it's a matter of prestige for Westminster, they don't want to let the UK break up as it would diminish their standing on the world stage.
If Scotland goes people will be forced to realise only London and the South East are financially viable and the rest of the country is in fact poor, the whole economy needs rebalanced away from London but that could take decades if at all.
@@jono_cc2258 yeah tbh I know I just wanted a video. The standard of living in the southeast and England as a whole would increase massively if the UK was disbanded but the defence and prestige would indeed be gonzo
@@jono_cc2258 Scotland is more spread out and pays more per capita on infrastructure, if it plans to spend no money on defence then it will remain de-facto part of the UK in the long term, more likely it would increase military spending to develop independent capabilities.
The truth is that the union is mutually beneficial. How you can be pro-EU and against the UK union makes virtually no sense to me whatsoever, the SNP has no real ideology, that position more or less proves it.
The UK, particularly England, is a touch imbalanced, largely because of the economic monolith that is london acting as a major brain drain from other areas, hopefully the freeports will go some way to address this, as would a lot of extra money spent on the nothern powerhouse region to make it more competitive with London.
As an Englishman I would be heartbroken if Scotland left the union 😭
As a fan of Britain, I am depressed each time I see the fall of the Empire😭. Scotland's leaving will make me more depressed.
Should have been nicer to them then
Not really much to do with you though really
@@eaglebright1403 Britain is an island and if the people of Scotland choose to leave you should accept it as its called democracy anything the central government tries to do to prevent or stop it will make them an authoritarian regime.
Literally why? We're not bloody breaking off from the Isles just the government 🤣
As an immigrant in Scotland, my hands sweat a little when I see the title.
Why ? Scotland will vote to end the UK very soon, within next ten years, sooner I hope.
Why does this make your hands sweat ? as a UK citizen you would be able to apply for joint citizenship of Poundland and Scotland and therefore become an EU no borders traveller again as Scotland will join the EFTA soonish after indi.
Did u think of that possibility ?
@@pablosaintmarr3223 I don't really care, I just thought the UK is generous enough to let Hong Kong people immigrate to the UK for a much cheaper price than other paths of immigration. You really do sound like you think I'm against Scottish indy.
@@wedonteatbears they get quite sensitive
I'm glad they did a video on the other side
I totally get why a lot of the Scottish want independence but they have much bigger problems right now.
Half of it is England…but yes they have higher priority issues and it is why a referendum is still not announced.
England and Scotland’s political views have been differing for decades I think it is only natural for Scotland to go it’s own way and to portray its own values
@@shahenshahi-adil we left before the pandemic
decissions are not serialized tho, you can be solving many problems at once
Problems we can only fix if we take government into our own hands and escape the tories.
I don't want an independent Scotland, it'd be a shame to loose them. However, if they did succeed from the union, would that open the door to change the Union Flag to finally include Wales? Also, I believe a private trade agreement between Scotland and Wales would be beneficial although I'm not sure what Wales can offer being the poorest nation in Western Europe.
secede
@@derekbiggerstaff Loose them? I think you mean lose them...
@@kevinrobertson2154 I left one for you.
we (wales) basically supply the entire south of england with water, we also have large aerospace facilities (general electric, airbus), we have a large steel port, one of the strongest tides in the world with prospects for a tidal plant and we have a lot of sheep :)
scotland would need to immediately secure a solid shipping trade network with norway, invest in its oil in the north sea and export some of its surplus electricity. one would hope that the other celts aren't left in the dust by scotland, but if i'm being honest it needs to put on its own oxygen mask first. if scotland votes to leave it will be a huge economic pinch for a few years until it can get oil, electricity and aerospace industries strong, because those are its major assets.
1. Scot-Eng border would use the same border technology between NI and RoI promised by the UK government, and heavily advertised by all Tories as actually very easy to implement and use.
2. Based on GERs which is not a representation of an independent Scotland's economy. In addition GERs is not particularly accurate and has many assumptions/guesses, also Scotland has debt allocated to it by Westminister. So for example the entire cost of Trident could be allocated to Scotland because it's in Scotland, even though most Scots despise Trident and nuclear weapons in general. A colossal debt that Scotland would not have as an independent country. Anyway - the point is, GERs does not even come close to representing and independent Scotland's finances. It cannot even be considered 'the closest thing', its not even that.
3. Scotland would continue to use the pound without a currency union. I imagine that that Scotland's first election the Scottish people would then decide the currency (Scotland making it's own choices - imagine that), and I would strongly suspect that they would choose the Euro. Brexit will continue to devalue the pound, so it will be important to do the switch from the pound sooner rather than later. So one switch in currency from pound to Euro probably 3-4 years after independence is achieved.
for 3 the points at 6:18 are what to talk that, which is why thats not really a good idea to wait 3-4 years before getting a currency.
1) NI border has been a nightmare and trade is down significantly, But The border would not be like that, the EU would certainly not allow it.
2) GERS was directly financed by the SNP to create as rosy a picture as possible of Scottish independence. The result of Independence would be immediate and harsh austerity, an act of self-harm un-equalled in at least decades of western history.
3) Would it? it could continue to use the pound but It wouldn't be able to print its own currency any more, why on earth would England allow that? It certainly can't join the Euro until above harsh austerity has taken place, which will be incredibly hard on the Scottish people, almost certainly resulting in a substantial brain drain as the best and brightest look for fortune elsewhere.
Massive decline in trade, brutal austerity, instant currency crisis, slashing countless families in two, devastating brain drain... I'm sorry but it's a terrible idea and always has been. Scotland is in no way oppressed by England, it's culture flourishes, it has its own legal system, own police, own nhs, etc and it gets direct cash money as well as a great market for goods out of the UK (as the UK is a far more important maket for Scotland than the EU). Vote no, your children will thank you.
@@alex29443 I highly disagree with you. Independence does not mean a massive decline in trade or brutal austerity, you do not solve any problem by imposing austerity, you invest. Scotland is oppressed by the UK government. Our culture is made fun of and insulted on a daily basis, our institutions such as our NHS, legal system and our parliament are under serious threat from those in London. It took us 300 years to get our parliament back and just after 20 years they want to put a bulldozer right through it. Independence might be a walk into the unknown yes but what is known is exactly what we get if we stay which is absolutely fuck all.
@@grant6849 The scottish government runs about a 8-10% deficit, including north sea revenue as Solely Scottish, This last year it was 22.5%. With Scexit, it will not be able to print its own money to fill this gap, and EU rules limit deficits to 3%. It's not a choice, Scexit necessitates harsh austerity (or borrowing the large sums from the bank of england that it currently gets for free, and forgetting about EU membership), no way around it whatsoever, the SNP has nothing to say on this except vague promises and dreams on this point. To vote for Scexit is to vote for harsh austerity in Scotland, the two are inseperable.
Scotland is not laughed at in any way, most English people wish their culture was so distinctive.
Our legal system is hardly infringed on by London at all, and our NHS gets better funding than the one in England.
What exactly is the benefit of Scexit? We get cash money, every year, through the barnett formula, zero trade barriers on 60% of our trade (barriers which Scotland would be forced to errect with scexit, severely damaging trade), as well as the bargaining power of the UK economy in trade deals. We gain a great deal from the union and stand to lose a huge ammount with Scexit.
I would happily see the Scottish parilament relegated to a federated assembly, it might shut up the dangerous lunatics in the SNP and stop their dreams of royally screwing over the scottish people by their own ignorance and mismanagement.
@@alex29443 Scotland can’t run a deficit because in the UK it’s legally impossible. You’re entire argument therefore falls apart
As a person who is part Scottish and English… I hope Scotland remains within the UK
Yeah. I really hope that the nationalist movement dies down. Nationalism has always caused problems
@@zombiehorsefranzferdinand9304 And Brexit has nothing to do with nationalism?
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
but you've lived in England all your life, right? FOH!
I agree with you. I have family in both England and Scotland and none of us want to be separated.
I feel like a Scottish £ Sterling(Stirling?) that's initially tied to the value of GBP but later is made independent is the best option for currency. It gives short term stability but long term flexibility. And I've already been refused Scottish money in England enough times that it may as well be it's own currency...
If you leave the uk already said you will have nothing to do with the £ Sterling , as well as this. You can’t jsut make a currency based on another, if it’s a different currency it will have different bases and rules in trading and also the pound is the oldest currency in the world meaning it is stable and reliable for investors (hence why London is rich although people could go elsewhere)
I don’t want you to leave as I went Scotland ever feel weekends and wed drive up from wales just because it was a nice place and honestly I don’t hate 1 scotish person I’ve met
Yeah they could do a currency peg but this is dependent on Scotland having sufficient foreign currency reserves to maintain the peg
That insult has been going on for as far back as the 70's.
@Asseti They don't need to support it, you don't need permission from the "owners" of a currency to tie the value of "your" currency to the value of "theirs".
I went looking for this comment before doing an exact replica, Scotland should have it's own currency, pegged 1:1 for a five year period, then float.
To join the EU or not, join the Eurozone or not, are different fights... a good deal for some and horrible for others, England was right to leave and so would Scotland to keep out, try independence for a few decades, if you suck in being a free country, surrender your freedom back to England or to EU, same result, a rich colony.
Just imagine those five years minimum when Scotland was out of the UK and the EU at the same time. Trying to reduce their deficit so they can join the EU. Sounds like a disaster to me
What deficit Scotland didn't borrow 2.5 trillion that would be the English nationalist Tory and labour partys
@@timjackson8516 the deficit mentioned in the video
@@paulmountford1972
That's just a theoretical deficit, in case the spending and taxation remains the same as now.
Yea i sure it does
@@timjackson8516 Scotland borrow more than any other nation within the UK.
Great video. Very informative, clear and straight to the point.
I’ld agree with the last comment, can we have a “pros and cons” from the perspective of the rest of the uk from a Scottish exit from the union?
This was a very informative and well presented video. Thank you.
yes you can, but its none of scotlands concern or business.
It was out dated nonsense.
I'm not Scottish and I'm not particularly for or against Scotland leaving the UK, but if we've learnt anything from Brexit - it's that these big changes take time to see any benefit and there will always be a period of hardship due to major adjustments. Being far smaller, if Scotland left without a direct transition into the EU, they're going to struggle a hell of a lot more, their population makes up less than 10% of UK population. UK undeniably has a lot of clout that has helped it transition existing agreements and create new ones where Scotland does not. But, in the long term, there's no reason an independent Scotland couldn't be successful
Remind me what that clout has got GB? A weak deal with Australia where they dictate the terms and refuse unless the UK concede environmental regulations and put to the back of the line (as promised and risked anyway) in a deal with USA. The EU trade deals have been a disaster from the beginning because of multiple worse than useless Tory governments.
@@TheRiddler72 the UK is one of the most important nations on the planet with a permenant seat at the UN security council, hosts several huge global events, is home to some of the most prestigious universities, is home to the financial capital of the world, is the 5th largest economy in the world & 2nd largest in Europe, is a native English speaking nation, hosts a huge tech sector & has several other reasons as to how it has clout
@@TheRiddler72 I think the fact we're already an applicant and could become a full member of the CPTPP (which is the 3rd largest trading block, which the UK is 2nd largest country in) in possibly less than 2 years. And the UK is also still the 6th largest economy in the world, still gives us a lot of clout.
@@Lando-kx6so so with that alleged clout, it still can't get a decent deal with Australia and is still back of the line for a deal with USA, literally our closest ally. Are you STILL believing with brexit lies of the supremacy of GB on the world stage? We're not an empire any more and we're not a major power. The clout we already had being part of the EU was thrown away in return for some "sovereignty" that's being diluted by every dodgy trade deal the Tories make.
@@sionsmedia8249 anybody can apply to become part of the cptpp... It could be 2 years, if the UK fold to all the demands in order the allowed to join. The UK already had trade deals with most of these countries when it was in the EU, so we're giving up literally the largest trade bloc who already had those deals or better, to join a smaller trade bloc who will have equal or worse deals... What about the beloved sovereignty we were supposed to be taking back control of? We give the cptpp the money we were giving the EU for membership... Shame that 250m a week couldn't go to the NHS like they promised. The Tories are a joke and the people who voted for brexit were lied to.
The sole reason why the Scottish independence question is even on the table is Brexit. The main reason that it has popularity as reflected in the overwhelming support for the SNP is also Brexit. As pointed out in the video , there are significant risks on independence but the long term risks of staying in the union cannot be understated. There is no guarantee that a bankrupt westminster could afford to support Scotland economically any more or even want to.
What? The Scots independence referendum happened In 2014, brexit was first voted on in 2016
@@K_-_-_-_K Indeed. Had it not been for the Brexit votum and what the British Government did with the vote there would not be a case for an imminent new referendum on Scottish independence.
@@Antonnick if a country could go bankrupt the Americans, Greeks and italians would have done so by now!
@@thewizzard3150 countries can and have gone bankrupt in the past e.g Argentina. The effect is however not quite the same as with a commercial organisation.
@@Antonnick as you say, but South American countries are unpopular with the world bank at this time and are more likely to be devalued then western countries that are in a worse position. The Americans are in charge of the bank at this time. Thus a currency that isn't worth the paper it is printed on is kept artificially high because money is not back by any thing these days.
I would be curious to know what the other new countries of Europe did to solve those issues...the new Balkan and Baltic nations as well as Slovakia and the Czech Republic.
The brake up of Yogoslavia was uncontrolled and a result of war. So would not make for a good comparison.
The brake up of the USSR was the result of the weakness / collapse they suffered. Every easy to say it was positive when the starting point was so low.
I am not sure of an equivalent 'rich' country breakup in recent times.
Historically, Canada, Australia and New Zealand (perhaps also India?) would be the best examples. But at the same time, lots of other countries got their independence in Asia / Africa who faired less well. So was this luck?
@@randeep6346 Did you really called splinting of Czechoslovakia collapse of USSR when not only it was not part of USSR, but it also happens 4 years after USSR collapsed.
@@skyrask1948 Sorry, intended these to be separate examples. Brake up of Yogoslavia, Brake up (or collapse) of USSR, brake up of the British empire. (I am from the UK). Was also thinking of the brakeup of the Spanish Expire and the example of Argentia which was a 1st world country but thanks to its government is the only country on earth go and become a 3rd world country...
Not easy to find an equivalent for Scotland leaving. HK is a rich city leaving the UK, but they did not get independence, they joined China.
Singapore was part of the British empire, but gained independence as part of Malaysia. It was Malaysia kicking them out against their will that created the Republic of Singapore. Was pure luck that its government largly acted in Singapores interests that it became rich.
Perhaps it is Republic of Ireland that is equivalent... but Ireland was poor when it left and wanted to leave because it's economy and people were suppressed by the UK.
Scotland is unique in that its not the UK that conquered Scotland, its Scotland's Kind inheriting the English crown and joining the countries together.
@@randeep6346 Czechoslovakia formed single country peaceably and then separated peaceably in 1993 creating two countries.
@@skyrask1948 They were roughly equivilant is wealth and size.
Scotland is 20% of the UK in terms of economy and population.
Yogoslavia was a different country to Czechoslavakia and did not overlap.
I have been to Slovina, lovely country and interesting talking to older people who really liked being part of Yogoslavia and found it very sad. It sounded like it was not what they would have voted for...
Although I would wish for Scotland to remain in the UK, I fully understand why many Scots wish to be independent.
One factor that hasn't been factored here, is defence. Scotland currently pays it's share of the UK's massive defense budget. If they left the UK, they could get away with a small navy & airforce, just big enough to protect itself.
Scotland would also have to trim costs elsewhere, a smaller civil service, a reorganised healthcare system (not cuts or privatisation, just exploring more efficient ways to deliver healthcare), a freezing of the minimum wage, a complete taxation overhaul.
If I was a Scot, I would probably be in favour of independence, however, I would want to see a fully costed plan before I could vote for it.
You mentioned defence. Scotland is lucky enough to be part of the U.K., which is on the UN security cancel and has nuclear weapons. It would be foolish to leave all of this, as Scotland’s say on the world stage would rapidly decline.
Scotland doesn’t want to be a major figure on the world stage and doesn’t want nuclear weapons either. We just don’t have that “Global Britain” mentality up here.
They can't go rogue
The vast majority of UK defence spending goes to NATO and that is only 2% of GDP. If Scotland wanted the protection of NATO its share of the expenditure would go up and if it didn't it would have to build its own defence force which would be hugely more expensive. If the EU decide to have a European defence force it would also be costly for Scotland. There are no savings in defence to be had by leaving the UK, only a lot to lose.
The job cuts from leaving the UK’s defence industry would be horrendous to Scotland. Shipyards would shut as defence contracts move to England. Shut Faslane as the SNP/Green Party want is another massive blow to the economy but on that last one I wouldn’t be surprised to see the good ol’ US of A step in and flex its muscles 😉
What would you replace all these jobs in the defence industry with, jobs in tourism?
Post pandemic, how long will the Tourism industry take to recover?
Most EU countries have Pisa scores between 490-510, so this small deviation from England is not significant. Also the Pisa scores only test 15years old students, so it doesn't say anything about higher education or education as whole.
Just for context on the 21 road/rail crossings between Scotland and England. Ireland and Northern Ireland have 208.
That is true but he’s talking about the possibility of a hard border, which Ireland and NI do not have; but I would be in favour of independence if we don’t have a hard border.
In an ideal world there should be a first stage of negotiation prior to the referendum. Then at least people would have some idea of what they are voting for instead of the propaganda that both sides will spout. Unfortunately I doubt this will happen. It would be interesting to see the Scottish government drive the process by cutting the link to the Barnet formula and control its own spending, balancing taxation raised in Scotland with Government spending, basically establish standalone fiscal credibility ahead of splitting from Stirling. The Scottish government has the power now to determine all Scottish taxes other than corporation tax and VAT. The U.K. government could make this a requirement or precondition for any second referendum?
Could you provide the sources for 3:07 (i.e. at the bottom it says See Section 14)?
Although the SNP wish for an independent Scotland to join the EU, it can almost immediately join the single market and adopt the euro. Neither of these two require EU membership.
Support for the Euro is at 20-25% in the opinion polls in Scotland.The Scots have a completely different cultural background to the Irish Republic.There is little chance an independent Scotland would be fast tracked in to EU membership.This would invite the dissolution of several EU members.They will stick to the rules.Adopting the Single Market without EU membership would be much more complicated and still require a head border with rest of UK
@@Marvin-dg8vj Yes support for the Euro is not high but the practical application of having a strong currency especially as sterling declines will make it a more attractive if not an essential option. Governments do not always do things based on popularity. Adopting the single market need not be complicated because one, all of Scotland's current laws conform and Norway achieves this perfectively well.
@@stuartwilson7392 Norway has a hard border with Sweden. Scotland is a majority Protestant country resistant to European political union closer to Denmark and Sweden than Ireland.This does not make independence impossible but it is a seriously complicating factor. I don't see support in the opinion polls for a separate Scots currency either
We haven't ever had a hard border between England and Scotland. The closest we came was Hadrian's wall, which was intended to be a trading line more than a military barrier.
It would be insane to have most of Scotland's exports to EU and 100% of exports to UK having border controls and checkpoints. Not to mention that Scotland IMPORTS from England and the EU through the same border.
By your logic, the UK can join the single market and adopt the Euro without EU membership. Ain't gonna happen.
@@angrytedtalks there would also be the small question of splitting Scottish and Rest UK companies up into different entities for tax and regulatory purposes.
Had to make all those disclaimers? 😂 Are people that scared of hearing arguments against what they believe that they need to be warned before they hear them.
In the case of people who support Scottish independence, yes
It's cause they kinda know all the points were nonsense
@@elliotwilliams7421 dunno how you hear these reasons and just write them off as nonsense
These are the same disclaimers they used on the Three reasons in favour video you numpty.
No they were saying that it was not an complete list disclaimer
not a watch at your own risk disclaimer
What a load of tosh.
An independent scotland would be the 14 richest country. Fact.
The resources Scotland has is the envy of the world. How can Scotland be 9% deficit when it's not allowed to borrow money.
If they really want to save the Union, then one of the solutions should be PR. Too many times Westminster has ridden rough shot over the wishes of anyone who doesn't live in England because that's the only ones they need to keep happy. If others felt they could get some say in the main government, then that would probably convince them to still be a part of the UK.
I live in England and I never wanted brexit or this government.
and if they wanted to save the union they'd give Scotland more autonomy so we can appease our differing beliefs
Good point first past the post is a threat to the integrity of the Union.
[Edited to add additional points]
They don't even need to keep all of England happy, just lie to the right people. Look at the voter share behind "majorities" in previous parliamentary elections, as well as the voting demographics and which groups had the highest turn out, as well as which had the lowest. Then you'll see what I mean. Entire generations, regions and ethnic groups in England have been failed by successive British governments, left powerless because they aren't the Right Sort of People.
You're right about PR though, something desperately needs to change because this shit just keeps happening. No need to tear up this island and create pointless divisions in the process, though.
As for the currency, we will go back to using the Pound Scots which used to have the same value as Pound Sterling until the creation of the Alien Act 1705 that put Scotland under economic hardship - like the trade embargoes being used to this very day - devaluing the Pound Scots to get the Scots to join the Act of the Union 1707.
So let's put the matter to bed, Scotland's currency will be the Pound Scots.
Or maybe the Euros, its up to them really
There will definitely be a lot of "pounding" in Scotland ;)
The Scots pound was not the equal in value to the English pound pre 1707.
@@jamesthomas4841 Yes, it was.
@@Cunny_Funt No, 12:1 is not "equal"
The currency issue is the kicker. The SNP had no good answers for it in 2014 and it lost them the referendum, and they still don't have answers now, 7 years later. Until they do, I don't see support for independence getting a clear majority.
How about the pound you know like the isle a man uses?
@@drhonknbonk5798 pound can't guarantee Scotland EU membership. The only way is a Scottish currency.
I didn't follow the currency debate that closely. Would pegging a Scottish currency to the Pound or Euro be an adequate measure? If not, why not?
Initially it would benefit Scotland to have its own currency, initially tied 1:1 to GBP, but then after a transition allowed to diverge. The good thing there is Scotland has the flexibility to devalue the currency to make Scottish exports more desirable. Over time, it would stabilise and then eventually Scotland could join the Euro; But that initial period (say 10 years) of having its own currency would be a very useful tool for long term economic success.
How cares what we use if were independent we will need to exchange money not that hard take on the Euro and we have one less transaction 🙄
People at Scotland:
Why do we die so young?
Also people in Scotland:
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suit on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future.
Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
All when Scotland didn't have any political power and was run from Westminster. Thanks for pointing out that these issues were started by Westminster before holyrood.
What an insulting rant, you should be ashamed of yourslf.
My main problem is the negotiations. Brexit negotiations were already a shambles. The SNP can promise whatever they like but the deal we will get with the rUK will make or break an independent Scotland. If we get a "no deal" like we did with Brexit we are toast.
Or you go get a deal with the EU maybe a membership in the EEA and customs union as offered to the UK as a whole. GCP Grey do have a video on the EU's not so secret negotiation strategies/offers. And as of now Scotland is regulatory aligned with the EU for the most part.
No deal so we keep all our natural resources.... someone will be toast but it won't be us .. leaving the union means a 12 fold increase in Scottish finances.
@@scotinternationalist1373 what use will our resources be if we don't have a currency to sell them in? We'd lose our trade deals with the rUK, Scottish people living in rUK would have to move back, industries would leave Scotland like they did during Brexit, there would be a hard border between the rUK and us etc etc
No deal means no debt. Noice
I'd prefer to just stay and change the UK voting system to MMP, that way a plurality of voters doesn't railroad the majority in terms of seats in the government.
Why would Englang accept that tho ?
What is MMP
@@lyampetit144 I don't see why people cannot accept the voting system changing. We used a PR system to elect our members of the european parliament. Now english local elections are moving to a pr system iirc.
@Oscar O'sullivan
MMP is the hybrid voting system used in Germany, New Zealand, Scotland and Wales for their assemblies. The seats are split so you get 2 votes. One vote as normal for your local MP. A second vote for a party to decide the other contingent of seats. Those seats are split into bigger regions so each region has more seats. Those are shared out more proportionally to help make parliament more reflective of the popular vote. A conservative MP in Scotland might have little change of being elected as they aren't concentrated enough to win a constiuency outright but they are actually the second biggest party in the scottish parliament due to the seats they get from the second vote.
SNP in Scotland get around half the vote, sometimes they get enough seats to rule alone but sometimes need a coalition partner. Without MMP, SNP would have 80% of the seats in the scottish parliament. That's insanely distortional due to how first past the post works.
The advantage of this system over nationwide PR where % of votes directly equals % of seats is that it prevents excessive fragmentation into a zillion parties like Italy or Netherlands. It gives you more choice to avoid 2 establishment parties that are basically the same. It also retains the link that people have to a local MP.
The UK govt typically has a working majority with 3x-4x% of the national popular vote. That means a supermajority might be against the govt. A govt more reflective of the national will would be better.
We need federalisation if the UK is to have a better, more equal distribution of power.
London City state.
English parliament
Welsh parliament
Norther Irish Parliament
Scottish parliament
We can all agree on laws around civic policies. Drug laws can be handled by the states, although this may cause scheduled drugs to be trafficked to England from a legalised cannabis Scotland.
Additional Tax laws can be handed by the states.
Westminster can then abolish the house of Lords. And have a unicamberal government to represent foreign and union affairs.
Also we need rights of citizens locked and coded into a constitution
Independence is such a bad idea. As was independence from the EU
Stronger together whether that’s the 4 nations of the UK and the overseas territories or the UK as a whole in the EU
@@veggiesupreme3556 aye mate completely agree. I understand the frustration with UK parliament but we've been tethered economically for 300 years . Nobody can tell me that this would be a smooth ride given how Brexit has gone. We're already on a self destructive course. 300 years!!! The last time Scotland was on its own, kings and queens were still beheading each other and pirates were sailing the seven seas.
@@Beefybaby I wish people were more knowledgeable about how the UK came to be. Scotland’s king became our king and then the countries merged later on after a failed colonial project that left Scotland bankrupt. Many nationalists make it out like Scotland is a victim and was conquered
There were more arguments for staying in the EU than leaving it and yet here we are… Scotland has every right to leave considering how they got screwed during Brexit.
it's not just about what's good for scotland. it's about what is good for the livelihoods of the people living in scotland. becoming a member of the EU would be good, but the process would be a nightmare for the average citizen
@@electionsuk i think people wanted to leave the Uk and then rejoin the eu, they were conscious about the that ..l but i can be wrong
@@electionsuk You’re conveniently forgetting that when the Scots went to the polls in 2014, they were told they would be leaving the EU as well as the UK, which prompted many Scots to vote remain, because EU membership was important to them. Fast forward to 2016 and they were forced to leave anyways, against their will….
@@Michelrs I agree it would not be nice but what you are descibing is a that to strong. Yes it wil be for some, more wont even really notice and for a lot the start wil range form could be better to really Bad.
Thats for the first 5 years things should go progressivly better afterwards.
@@electionsuk we only trade services. With the UK
What about those areas of Scotland that vote for remaining in the UK? Would there be a partition or would they be dragged out of a union against their wishes?
It's an interesting question certainly. Northern Ireland only exists after fears of violence prompted a vote on the matter.
🤣🤣 it is a nation thing not a region thing.. but i’d say there is a ways to go before there is a referendum, just look how chaotic the UK is right now with fuel shortages, power and reduced trading with the EU our own back garden 🤔 lack of food on the shelves, you have a utter clown in charge who you would leave alone with a biscuit box and yet many think he doing a great job, if you had a decent party and leader in charge of the UK i think the devolved will of Scotland would be remain, as it would be a real pain splitting up, but with Boris and his party in power and looking set to continue 🙄then you would have to look at it as short term pain for long term gain, as fir the EU making it easier or harder for Scotland to join well, they get fishing, oil & gas, wind power and goods, we get easier access truck drivers happy to visit and eventually membership of the biggest club, 🤔although it’s going to be funny seeing the BBC weather map with both Scotland and Ireland missing 🤣🤣
@@angussoutter7824 that the thing though. Who decides that? Why are some lines on a map more important than others?
Like the same thing that happened with Brexit ?
The land border between England and Scotland has been established since 1237, I think it's fair to say that won't be changing regardless of who goes where and when.
My problem with independence is that I feel like some people don't even know why they want independence other than "Freedom!!!!!" and "Fuck england". (That's not to say everyone is like that). I've asked numerous friends and colleagues about why they actually want independence and they can't seem to give me a cohesive reason. There are numerous reasons to want independence and I understand that, but I feel that a lot of people aren't actually educated on what they are, and are just told to want it for the sake of wanting it.
Most of the reasons i've come across that arnt simply FREEDOM! are largely centring around not wanting westminster to dictate their policies or laws.
Even then thanks to devolution scotand is pretty independent when it comes to their domestic governance. With only foreign affairs being considered "reserved powers"
In reality the only valid reason iv seen for wanting to manage Scotlands own defence is that they arnt happy with the nuclear weapons stored there.
Ireland has been extremely successful within the EU. Couldn’t Scotland, as a small English-speaking country, imitate Ireland’s success? I am convinced that the EU will try to help an independent Scotland as much as possible, a country that was forced out of the EU against its will.
wait - Scotland speaks English‽ I thought they yelled random syllables at you! 😁
Actually, Ireland is only successful due to the fact that they're a tax heaven. I don't think that the EU is particularly interested in a tax heaven.
The EU doesn't want legacy UK cast-offs.
There is such an obvious economic no-no for independence that only the racist ideologues would actually want independence out of spite.
If you can get past the cancerous nationalism, what is needed is better integration to UK productivity and identity to make life way better North of Carlisle/Berwick.
Nah, you can't expect special treatment for Scotland. Spain sees Scottish independence as a threat because of its own Catalan Independence movement and far from help Scotland, would likely look to make things as difficult as possible in order to discourage the movements within its own borders.
@@Pironious Spain actually confirmed that they won't veto. The problem is more that the EU Maastrichts criterias are stringent. With 9% debt they need to cut down at least 6% to meet the criteria.
What happens to North Sea oil with Scottish Independence? I think people may have forgot since oil was found the North Sea the proceeds were going to Westminister
Unfortunately Westminster has sucked more Wells dry. You are right though, this fact is almost always completely ignored
🏴 I’m support for Scotland will become independent from toxic U.K.! 🏴
The financial figures are incorrect. I hate to bleat on about the oil. But it will increase GDP/capita by 1200 immediately. Hence there is probably little to no financial deficit. See figures from Fraser of Allander economic group 2018. With regards the EU, there has never been a situation where a former constituent country has sought to rejoin so this is without precedent. The EU may speed rejoining just to spite England. Scotland can also once independent adjust tax rates to encourage HQ of major UK businesses North of the Border. Since London also voted along with Scotland to remain in the EU maybe we should team up with them! What an economic powerhouse.! We could call the new country Scotlond!
Seriously though I don't want the UK to fragment. Lets figure out a way to make it work!
The Fraser of Allander Institute (FAI) at the University of Strathclyde -[popped in to existence, a legal paper entity &]- entered Scottish public life in 1975. In the 40 years since, it has become established as a -leading independent economic [mathaMagic]- research institute focused on the Scottish economy.
UK sources give a range of estimates of reserves, but even using the most optimistic "maximum" estimate of ultimate recovery, 76% had been recovered as of the end of 2010.
Note the UK figure includes fields which are not in the North Sea (onshore, West of Shetland).
UK sources give a range of estimates of reserves, but even using the most optimistic "maximum" estimate of ultimate recovery, 76% had been recovered as of the end of 2010.[citation needed] Note the UK figure includes fields which are not in the North Sea (onshore, West of Shetland).
Shetland Islands, also called Zetland or Shetland, group [resource owners of the fields, waters etc] of about 100 islands, fewer than 20 of them inhabited, [currently] in Scotland, *130 miles (210 km) north of the Scottish mainland,* at the northern extremity of the United Kingdom. They constitute the Shetland Islands council area and the historic county of Shetland.
"Wir Shetland has demanded self-governing Crown Dependency status for Shetland, like the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.
"the squeeze on local authority budgets and lingering resentment at centralisation by Holyrood. The preamble to the motion reads: “We believe that Shetland has the wherewithal to have a positive future. However, in recent times we have seen more and more decision making being centralised and public funding being consistently reduced. We are concerned that this ongoing situation is seriously threatening the prosperity, and even basic sustainability, of Shetland as a community.”
"Though a long-time, vociferous opponent of Scottish Independence, Martin seemed almost gleeful at the possibility of an island breakaway from Scotland: “It will be interesting to see how the SNP Government in Edinburgh responds to a campaign for self-determination that could break up Scotland. Will Nicola Sturgeon allow the Shetland Islands a referendum? Who will set the question?”
A UNIQUE SHETLAND POLITICS
Like all island communities, Shetland (population 23,000) has its own distinctive politics. It recorded the fourth-highest No vote in the country in the 2014 independence referendum, at 64%.
see...
'Marquess of Zetland'
'Sir Lawrence Dundas, 1st Baronet' "He made his first fortune as Commissary General: supplying goods to the British Army during their campaigns against the Jacobites and in Flanders during the Seven Years' War"
'Jacobitism'
"When James II and VII went into exile after the 1688 Glorious Revolution, the Parliament of England argued he abandoned the English throne and offered it to his Protestant daughter Mary II and her husband William III.
In April, the Scottish Convention held he "forfeited" the throne of Scotland by his actions, listed in the Articles of Grievances.
The Revolution created the principle of a contract between monarch and people; if that was violated, he or she could be removed. Jacobites argued monarchs were appointed by God, or divine right, and could not be removed, making the post-1688 regime illegitimate.
While this was the most consistent difference, Jacobitism was a complex mix of ideas, many opposed by the Stuarts themselves; in Ireland, it meant tolerance for Catholicism, which James supported, but it also meant granting Irish autonomy and reversing the 17th-century land settlements, both of which he opposed.
*In 1745, clashes between Prince Charles and Scottish Jacobites* over the 1707 Union and divine right were central to the internal conflicts that ended it as a viable movement.
Outside Ireland, Jacobitism was strongest in the western Scottish Highlands, Perthshire and Aberdeenshire, and areas of Northern England with a high proportion of Catholics such as western Lancashire, Northumberland and County Durham.[3] Sympathisers were also found in parts of Wales, the West Midlands and South West England, to some degree overlapping with areas that were strongly Royalist *during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms.*
The movement had an international dimension; *several European powers sponsored the Jacobites as an extension of larger conflicts, while many Jacobite exiles served in foreign armies.*
In addition to the 1689-1691 Williamite War in Ireland and *the Jacobite rising of 1689 in Scotland,* there were serious revolts in 1715, 1719 and 1745; abortive *French-backed invasion attempts* in 1708 and 1744; and several unsuccessful plots.
@@paulmaydaynight9925 This is the actual statement on the Strathclyde University website regarding the Fraser of Allander Institute. Founded in 1975, the Fraser of Allander Economic Commentary is the leading publication on the Scottish economy and offers authoritative and independent analysis of the key issues of the day.
Scotland cannot grant an independence referendum anymore than it can grant one for itself. However, I suggest that this be used as a bargaining chip as it would set a precedent for Scottish independence referendum. Westminster would ensure Scotland's departure from the Union were it to grant a current substitute part of Scotland independence before Scotland itself can achieve it....Great precedent!
Regarding the Jacobites in the Western Isles and West Highlands. I think you'd do well to revisit your history books. Culloden was fought over the Highlanders dissatisfaction with the formed Union with England. I'd be extremely careful with your selection of false propaganda. It may backfire atrociously. You cannot rewrite history!
All very well quoting all this but oil is to be phased out and the loony greens want nothing to do with it so that blows a big hole in that argument straight away
Reason 1: It would hurt Boris's ego. R2: It would hurt Boris's feelings. R3: See R1 and R2.
*boris: :(*
Before the Scottish referendum Scotland was a 12bln deficit on the UK economy…
Post COVID that has risen to 36bln …
The money generated by London basically funds the UK … many would argue that England are heavily subsidising Scotland….
Isn't another major point, jobs? as i swear i read somewhere that the MoD is the one the largest employers in Scotland, and if i recall ship building for the royal navy has to take place in the UK under some act or law, not sure on that as i think i remember the SNP saying they can hire out the shipyards, but the MoD said no, so it'd mean that Scotland would suddenly lose a major employer causing even more financial difficulties in the long run
Scotland would allocate the efforts and money into a Scottish army. We pay towards the British army now which actually overspends massively so Scotland would save money by having their own army
This is gonna have a interesting like-to-dislike ratio
They just don't know what they are talking about
Wouldnt it be a uk vs scotland
@@elliotwilliams7421 and you do?
@@mallardofmodernia8092 more than them on the topic, yes. Presumably you also.
@@DoubleAAce those that don't understand will like it, those that recognise fake news and actually have an interest in UK politics will dislike it
It's funny to see how all these arguments are more or less the same made by Westminster for ALL the former colonies wanting to leave. 1) they wouldn't be able economically, 2) reliant on UK for borders or protection, 3) wouldn't have the administrative capabilities. Just see the debate with Malta (and many others).
Yep. Its was all said before when the Republic of Ireland left. They predicted that we'd be crawling back to them.
@@maxwellpauric00 with respect, Ireland didn't have to contend with SNP rule
@@greenveilgaming1149 No SNP just die hard Irish nationalists
@@greenveilgaming1149 I don't know much about the SNP policies enough to discuss that unfortunately
@@maxwellpauric00 fair enough
Scotland does not have a deficit with the rest of the UK. Every single region of the UK has a deficit with the city of London. If you're not a city banker you're a scrounger. It's just an accounting thing. It is also the primary reason why we should leave. Why would the region of the country with the most natural resources and most highly educated population be the region that has the deficit? It's like saying the only part of the factory that makes any money is the accounts department. Everywhere else is a drain on the business.
independent scotland will not have companies working out of the city of london tax haven and be able to tax corporations like shell oil which pay zero on its revenue
border argument: rebuild hadrians wall
So give Scotland much more land?
@@dkerr1983 All land currently controlled by England was originally stolen from the Celts, the original inhabitants of the isles, with the migration of mainland Europeans such as Angles, Saxons, and Jutes. I see no problem with giving some land back to Scotland.
celts integrated with saxons in england which means you still would have no claim
And “ make England pay for it “ ! 😂
@@michaelmorgan1399 as a Scot I'm more than happy to have more national land 🤣🤣. However the land border has been established for quite some time. No need to pull out the old maps and take the land to the humber and the lake district.
The sea border though... that needs to change back before it was changed in the 70s and 90s.
Interesting that the video didn't mention the escalating damage that Brexit is currently inflicting on the UK economy..
No because its against independence, if it was for they'd mention it
Good video, with excellent points - It seems there are significant reasons for Scotland to remain in the Union. The UK’s split with the EU had similar arguments against making that step, but in the end it seems to have been primarily a ideological decision, rather than an economic one. I hope Scotland doesn’t make the same error.
It's temporary teething pains which is being made worse by the pandemic. In half a decade everyone will have to admit Brexit was a great call.
Because this video isn't about Brexit...
@@Froge0 UK isn't Switzerland or Norway tho, they don't have anything to recoup the damages
I think Scots are more like the Irish in that w'ere similar to English but different enough to justify being a separate country
@Raa Hiissdd dass most people even Scotland think of independence as SNP white paper etc but they can only implement the white paper if they’re in power. I think the public would get fed up with snp quickly especially with inevitable turmoil following independence.
Interesting topic 🤔
I think there’s a growing majority of English people wishing Scotland leaves the U.K. when will our voice be heard?
Not really how it works though is it?
@@SeanMcklo it’s a union, and Scotland is toxic to the union, it’s politics are nationalist and it’s people hate the English - we can remove them.
@@macwilko yes we're the toxic ones, we just store all your nukes, no biggie. Where'd you move them to? Whales? 🤣
@@UtdSolskjaer I’d like the nukes back in England/Wales, personally. All those highly paid jobs and of course a key national defence, deserves to be in a country that can be trusted with them.
@@macwilko ah you're lucky if you didn't take those nukes back we were sure to blow you guys to high heavens as in our power within the military devolved act
The border argument is an interesting one .
If the Westminster government claims that 21 crossing points are going to be a severe problem that makes their northern Irish arguments somewhat stupid As they seem to think that over 300 crossing points between Northern Ireland and the south are no problem at all
Tory logic. 100km they don´t want -> impossible burden. 500km they want -> easily maintainable by space magic and unicorns
Are you really comparing boat crossings to sticking a hard boarder on a motor way or a road and checking it all? It's not the same and you know it. The checks are done at the ports. There are not 200 ports in NI.
@@mcr2356 oh dear, the fact that you didn't understand is almost cute
@@mcr2356 Sea border was enforced by the US, the true border between NI and Ireland is on land, with roads and rails.
Btw I was thinking the same thing, that border argument should be investigated more.
@@mcr2356 I think you are being wilfully ignorant or you haven’t been taking any interest on what’s been going on in Northern Ireland . You seem to be conflating the Northern Ireland protocol with the Good Friday agreement .
The Westminster government were and probably still are saying that the Northern Ireland protocol is completely unnecessary and that they should not have to do checks between GB and Northern Ireland .
The GFA Is an international treaty to ensure free movement of people and goods between Northern Ireland and Eire .
The British government position was that this would be no problem because everything could be checked electronically at the border , without having to impose a hard border . This would involve the monitoring of 300 crossing points from the north to the south , All the time ignoring that this sort of technology doesn’t exist .
The observation about the 21 crossing points is spurious. There are only 3 capable of carrying HGV in any quantity. The other 2 trunk roads not suitable for heavy traffice and the the other 14 are minor roads. All the crossings are river crossings, so in reality it would be very easy to control the border, you could simply blow up the minor bridges. It is one of the easiest borders in Europe to control.
Look at the map. The major crossings are at Berwick. Longtown, Gretna, Huntford and Coldstream.
You can get an estimate of the traffic spread by looking at Scottish road traffic statistics for trunk roads in million kilometres
Dumfries and Galloway M74 + A7 = 1369
Scottish Borders A68, A1, 697 = 394
The vast majority of the traffic comes through one crossing - the M74.
Aren't many states on the euro able to borrow more cheaply than the UK despite not having their own currency?
Scotland is not only a great country, but a good one as well.
All these problems are as a consequence of being in UK , we dont have full control of all our fiscal powers or policies . We run our country within rules set out by UK and only have about 15% of policy control .
"Our" and "we" the language of nationalism. By the same logic should not Merseyside leave the UK. In the event of Scottish Independence should not the Borders and Dumfries and Galloway rejoin the UK?
@@jamesthomas4841 Scotland is a country in a political union - not a regional area like Merseyside . If Merseyside wanted to be an independent that would not be for Scotland to decide but the people of Merseyside/England . How else may i refer to OUR government and WE the people of Scotland . Tell me why it shouldnt be up to the people of Scotland to decide our future , be it independence or staying in the union ?
I think we would be better off without the EU as an independent nation while remaining in the CTA so there's no borders.
Do a England and Welsh point of view on this topic please!
indifferent - done
The border isn't as big an issue off the bat. Scotland won't be in the EU on day 1 if independence so no borders. They'll be a transition period of a couple years. We'll apply to the EU in the mean time. Once accepted we will put a trade border with us and EU at sea so we can have a light border with England. Once our trade with the EU and the rest of world out grows the dependency of the UK like What happened in Ireland we can consider removing the EU sea border and putting a harder border with England.
No BRITISH BORDER
except that can't happen if scotland wants to join EU. a "light" border won't cut it. it must be a real border. England is outside EU. so it must stay out. you will need passports and shit to get in and out.
England can just refuse a transition period.
You should prefix each point with "as a current UK member".
Scotland has no deficit, it can't have, there is no borrowing powers and they have to balance the books by law, there is also no debt, the GERS figures are a fiction. being in the union is the cause of Scotland's woes, be honest, very poor research.
If Scotland were to go independent and not take their debt it would be seen as defaulting and no one would lend them money at all at definitely not cheaply. This along with their current deficient would financially ruin the country and they’d become the new sick man of Europe - ironically as at that point expect no lifelines from the EU who I can’t see wanting to take on another Greece
@@veggiesupreme3556 lol. where do you fish up that drivel? there is no scottish debt or deficit. its a legal fiction. and european countries would welcome scotland for the sea they would claim back a scotland has 61% of uk waters, the oil it has that westmonster has squandered and the 25% of renewables in europe, why do you think the establishment doesnt want scotland to leave?
If I remember rightly, the Scottish Government now has borrowing powers but has decided not to use them. To that extent, there is no Scottish Government deficit. But there is still an issue. Pensions and social security benefits are currently paid for by the UK government, but would have to be paid for by the Scottish government in the event of independence. If these were not covered by tax revenue (and I don't know if they would be or not) then Scotland would find itself facing a deficit.
LoL I would like to point out that financial ruin is not a deterrent (or as much of one) as people would like to think pending you get the right (or wrong) person at the helm.
As a sympathetic Englishman l understand why a lot of Scots want independence but learn from Brexit. It will make you significantly poorer for the foreseeable future. There is already a significant poverty problem in Scotland. This would make things much, much worse.
DEFICIT: The deficit argument has always been bogus because Scotland isn’t independent right now. It isn’t allowed to borrow and 70%+ of tax revenue goes to the UK Treasury. The Scottish Government gets a fixed annual grant back and it’s now allowed to go over that amount by a single penny which, understandably, makes it almost impossible to invest to grow an economy like normal countries. Scotland running a “deficit” right now (as a part of the UK) isn’t an argument that Scotland should continue to participate in the UK.
CURRENCY: I’m personally in favour of Scotland joining the Euro but I get that it’s not popular because of lingering memories of the Eurozone crisis. That said Ireland recovered far more quickly than the UK did after the recession. Anyway, it would make sense for an independent Scotland to create a new currency and peg it to the pound, so that one pound = one Scottish dollar. That provides continuity and stability as Scotland transitions and reestablishes EU partnerships and invests for growth. Then Scotland can decouple the currency or join the Eurozone.
DEBT: As a matter of legal principle, Scotland would only have to accept a share of the UK debt if it also took a proportionate share of the UK assets (bonds etc) which Scotland has helped build up over 300 years. No assets = no debt. In the 2014 referendum Scotland offered to take its fair share of debt, but UK Gov was unwilling to part with assets. So, either Scotland leaves the UK with a fair share of assets or it becomes an independent country with zero debt. Either option starts Scotland off in a decent financial position.
BORDER: Most countries have an external border. It’s not a big deal, not to mention that the UK and Ireland are currently in the ‘Common Travel Area’ which guarantees the free movement of people across Great Britain and Ireland. Scotland has said it would just continue with that agreement.
Edit: I’m not saying it’s going to be plain sailing. There are definitely going to the hurdles to overcome. There will always be reasons that Scotland *shouldn’t* become independent but there are many more reasons why Scotland *needs* to be independent. Democratic impact (not having UK Governments we don’t vote for), ability to seek a closer relationship with the EU (after being forced out against our will), welcoming immigrants and growing our diversity as a country, promoting peace in the world rather than being dragged into wars in the Middle East and an ability to have our own voice in the world. Let’s do it. 🏴 🇪🇺
Wow the lengths of sh1t you type to try and counter the single argument. There's other arguments besides that. You're on very thin ice if you're putting all your hopes on that being true
Spot on with the deficit. With the debt, how much debt did Canada , Australia, India etc etc take when Westminster rule ended for them?
I always found the currency issue interesting. The "what currency will you use?" argument always seemed only half discussed to me. If no currency union then what currency will the rest of the UK use. I know it seems like a stupid question but remove the oil and gas money, the whisky, the vast majority of oil and so on. What happens to the value of the Pound. It will tank to a point that the BoE can no longer make payments from what there is and would require more mass printing of Pounds and so starts the spiral that could bankrupt the UK. So what currency will you use if there is no currency union?
@@TheEvilsprite because the Bank of England is the UK’s central bank, the UK would continue using the pound after Scotland leaves. I hope the UK thrives after Scotland leaves. Wanting Scottish independence doesn’t mean wanting any ills on anyone else. We can all be stronger if we work as a partnership of equals across the British Isles. I did think the currency debate in the 2014 was one of the weakest arguments and I think “we’ll keep the pound” was a bit of a nonsense, to be perfectly honest. I hope a far more coherent case for a new currency (pegged to the pound) or plan to join the Euro is put forward in 2023.
@@OfficialCraigWatson mate, I'm fully for Scottish independence and definitely don't wish any ills on the rest of the UK. I have friends and family that live south of the border.
I'm not sure there is any legal presidence, set by nations that have already left UK rule, for Scotland to take any of the debt. I will admit there is a difference that Scotland is part of a Union with England whereas the others were empire.
The issue I had in 2014 (and still today) was if you remove Scotlands economy from the UK (particularly for the balance of payments) the negative effect on the pound could be a catalyst for the pound to enter a downward spiral in value. Which left me wondering if the pound is worthless then what currency would they use?
I never heard the question even being asked of Westminster politicians after their threat of no currency union.
That's fine guys, you can come to EU and use the euro as soon as you ask for it, don't let that scares you we won't mind. Our only reaction will be "welcome back". Get your independance, england don't like you, don't stay in a toxic relationship with someone who don't like you.
Well while the average joe (aka me and you), don't mind the problem is that it is a political issue and we cannot just "give" them the euro. The regulation are there for a reason look at what happened to Greece because the regulation weren't met ...
The eu asscession though should go rather fast in my opinion, there is little reason not to let Scotland in (besides the whole precedent for places like Catalonia).
Unless it gets vetod by Spain because they don't want to set a precedence for Catalonia ;)
@@emizerri for the x hunderd times Spain already said that because Scotland is a country of its own the situations are not compairable and they don't mind thats also the offical EU standpoint. Besides spain needs the EU to much to start a pissing contest by vetoing it.
@@emizerri Spain said they won't stop Scotland from joining the EU
@@emizerri Catalonia is different, that's like a province, imagine Texas wants independence from the USA, the UK is a conglomerate of the British Empire but the member states are countries on their own.
There will be plenty of time to negotiate all these issues.
Independence will not happen instantly.
There is more RECENT history of Ireland resisting
The Jacobite wars were still about a British Kingdom, there was a reason each time they marched on London. Interestingly the Scots were more involved than the English not because of Unionism but because of how factions of Scots saw the future of Scotland developing economically.
Hi, lower class American here with a deep love of British and European history. As an outsider that doesn't have any 1st hand experience and has a deeply ironic position I would humbly express. I can definitely empathize with centuries of often getting majorly shafted by the English government and it still being an issue today that sorely needs to be addressed (also towards the other non-English members of the UK). And actions of protest against such poor treatment is praiseworthy and worth viewing with pride. However, I must express the worrisome trend (which is not new) of people groups no longer being able to reach an agreement that is mutually beneficial or corrects some major imbalance of power, but instead division. In some cases it is woefully necessary but I think those tend to be exceptions and generally speaking tends to at best have very mixed results.
On a personal level it is real fear that is hinted at on occasion in American news that there is a significant portion of the populace that genuinely likes the idea of succession or at least joining different states because an inability to seek cooperation with fellow citizens (it is to my shame that years ago I supported Texas independence). I have little hope it will get better and I do not say that lightly. Thus I hope that Scotland stays in the Union. I know it is still a difficult path in receiving equitable representation in the UK government but I fear the alternative will weaken both Scotland and her neighbors even outside the Isles. But I hope that maybe I'm just being overly pessimistic, I truly wish that is the case.
I have posited on many occasion the UK system of governance has been overdue for an overhaul.
All of the UK could perform well as federal states, in Europe.
As you have noted the average folks in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England outside of the Home Counties have been shafted, reamed and are expected to continue to suck it up.
Thanks to this treatment, the process has been initiated, and Westminster is acting like it's surprised.
I am saddened by the amounts of vitriolic outbursts from all sides, as that isn't constructive.
What is clear, is Westminster have acted and are acting like a narcissistic parent, bullying their children, instead of engaging with them.
There has been no compromise from Westminster since devolution. Can't have a discussion when one side doesn't talk.
Scotland leaving the UK would be just a even bigger version of brexit.
For the rUK it would be bad. Scotland in EU has soooo many benefits. *points at Ireland*
@@zernebock73 Ireland didn't get rich from being in the EU. It got rich by being a well established stable, neutral country that has a very low tax on companies. As such companies like Google set up and provide revenue in Ireland.
Scotland's industry and economy on the other hand mainly relys on the UK (With 63% of their exports being to the UK). Their biggest export is fossil fuels which will be massively shrinking in demand and UK tourism, which, frankly, when Europeans have options such as the Alps, France, Germany etc. They won't be eager to spend a lot of money getting on a plane when they could just drive to their neighbours and get a better experience.
Not to mention the changing currency, army management, fishing rights, benefits/pensions etc.
@@theanglo-lithuanian1768What a fascinating post; a palsied understanding of Irish indepence (hint, Google did not exist in the 1920s) along with declaring the tourist preferences for whole host of countries. ><
Such hubris. Brexit is choc full of these armchair eggspurts.
Too wee, too poor, too stupid. The UK politicians said the same back then to the Irish.
They were wrong. They always are. The UK has a truly abysmal track record against independence movements.
@@zernebock73 You do know Irelands economy didn't really take off till the early 2000s? Mostly because of these laws.
Ireland hit the goldmine by being a neutral country with low taxes and is mostly English speaking. Scotland's economy cannot do the same Ironicly become Ireland already does this. And the other options? Well, I summed it up above...
@@zernebock73 I have a lot of Irish friends and all of them agree that the average person earns around the same as the uk. Most the money never gets into the hands of the Irish men, just the corporations with low tax. Also the standard of living in the uk I’d rated above Ireland’s (search it) whilst it also being cheaper to live there with the average Brit having more disposable income than even the average American
How will buying your badge help the cause of Scottish independence please?
It's up to the Scottish people. The only problem I have is that the SNP will continue to push for repeated votes until they get the answer they want.
2 referendums with something as big as brexit in the middle seems fine. If the Scottish prop didn't want the vote we wouldn't vote for the snp
The Barnett formula is flawed and always has.
Right, based on income-per-head it is literally impossible for Scotland to not receive more money than is bringing in until it gets more prosperous than England, which is unlikely to happen while all important decisions are taken in Whitehall...
@@bonononchev634 don't disagree with you. 👍
One thing is the north sea, England and scotland need to negotiate north sea sectors, that would also mean oilfields. I think alot of oil comes ashore near Edinburgh.
There are many reports out there that suggest the amount of North sea gas and oil left is pretty minimal. Practically all of it is privately owned. And we are heading into a world without the need for fossil fuels. Therefore I think to focus on the North sea oil and gas when talking about Scottish independence is a tad pointless as in a few short years it will be irrelevant anyway.
People seem to forget CTA which exists between all the countries in the British Isles
One fantastic reason for Scotland to leave would be the end of British colonial rule over the English who are a captive nation.
Tell me you’re joking
Three reasons why Scotland should remain, as opposed to a whole Cabinet full of reasons to leave. I'll start with JOHNSON, PATEL, GOVE et al !
it literally said at the start of the video that it wasn’t an exhaustive list. Does thinking make your head hurt?
We in Scotland will never be taken out against our will!
(This week sent in the form of cut out magazine letters)
Gammons methinks
Yeah, let's all vote tory,
(that'll sort it) .
how about london leaves the union and we all stay together?
As far as currency goes, they could use - between UKEXIT and EUENTRANCE - a currency used by the British Virgin Islands, British Turks and Caicos Islands. Ecuador, Zimbabwe, Timor-Leste, Federated States of Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, and Panama - aside from the country where it originates. That is to say, the US dollar - currently the most widely used currency in the world, officially or not.
As far as the deficit goes... I think England should be encouraging Scotland in UKEXIT. English taxes would either drop or support public services such as the NHS more thoroughly, instead of basically paying welfare to all of Scotland. However, there may be a reason they don't do this: North Sea oil belongs to Scotland, and the revenue of at least 650 bn GBP/year would go to Edinburgh, not London. This could make up for that 'deficit' nicely.