We Need To Talk About "Authoritarianism"
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
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Howdy, friends! This week we're talking about perhaps the most widely misused term in all of politics - authoritarianism. Why is it so misunderstood? Let's take a look.
The Truth About "Authoritarianism" - Second Thought
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Citations And Further Reading:
On Authority:
www.marxists.org/archive/marx...
The Caging of America: www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...
CIA Report on Stalin:
www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/...
FISA 702:
www.aclu.org/news/national-se...
2022 Surveillance Report:
www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-cond...
Section 702 Violations:
www.newamerica.org/oti/blog/h...
www.wired.com/story/fbi-secti...
Police Violence:
www.washingtonpost.com/graphi...
People killed by Chinese police:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
2022 US police killings:
policeviolencereport.org/
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I'm a college student and someone asked my American history professor what communism is and he responded: " It's when the government controls everything and the leader is an Authoritarian" I swear Americans talking about communism is like blind people describing color.
That comparison to China, while assuming their numbers are credible, is strange
Did you get deplatformed from Nebula?
@SecondThought I don't know if you will see this, but thank you for all the hard work that you've been doing.
Small request: could you please have more female comrades as guests in the podcast? I know that there is a lot of them.
Really disappointed that you ignore anthropological definitions and theory on authoritarianism in order to justify your statism. Leftist theory has moved on from the days of the USSR, but apparently you haven't. The way you uncritically describe nations as socialist where workers own and manage no significant portion of the economy. You literally said I'm not going to do whataboutism and then engaged in that for half the video. I've been watching you for years but over the last year your biases and blind spots, lack of research rigor, they have become quite clear and this video is the last straw. I wish you luck.
The thing about authoritarianism is that people keep forgetting that the patriot act was never repealed and was strengthened
Not to mention, PRISM... Everybody seems to have forgotten about it's existence.
America being bad is no excuse for other places to be bad as well
intranexine8901
That reads like a nice troll.
But who's making excuses for the "other places"?
@@mackone8035 author of this video whitewashes Soviet Union and PRC, just because "bad western propaganda hates socialism".
@@intranexine8901that’s not the point, it’s about holding other countries to the same standard as the US. It’s about not being hypocritical.
"I don't care I'm being surveilled, I've got nothing to hide!" is as stupid as saying "I don't care if my freedom of speech is taken away, I've got nothing to say!"
Unless if that freedom of speech jeopardizes the socialist project!
@@UltraEgoMc Oh right because right wing people have NEVER supported censorship against socialists and communists back then?
I still don't understand this. If you're not talking about violently overthrowing the government, selling drugs, or raping kids, the feds have no interest in you. Maybe some NSA agents are aware you are into furry porn, but it's not like they're gonna expose you and nobody cares.
Nothing to fear, nothing to hide makes sense. It should just ALSO be applied to our government. If Congress has nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.
@@UltraEgoMc freedom of speech is not for fascists
No one actually believes in freedom of speech. People only believe in the freedom to say the right things. They just disagree with what that is. Anyone who says they believe in it is a liar.
I think taking Wikipedia at face value for the number of police killings in china is very disingenuous, especially considering the events in Hong kong
it's very likely that in the event of another tianmen square incident, this information would be obscured in some way. I think this video is great so far, but this seems to be a weak point in your reporting
What events in Hong Kong? There was one single death in the whole protests, and that was due to an accident. Compare that to the George Floyd protests in the US. You're again promoting western propaganda despite thinking you're against the establishment. Wikipedia is very biased, and uses sources provided by the CIA, so this makes your point even more ironic.
@@Traeknald Except it's sh*t in every other aspect too.
I mean, the only 2 deaths in the HK protests were caused by protestors, not police.
He equates secret police in states like the USSR and China to regular police in the US because they can wear civilian clothes, but then doesn't take into account deaths caused by the secret services of the USSR and China when comparing deaths due to police in between the US and those countries. Pretty gross.
I don't think that Wikipedia page for police killings in china is the best source, it says right at the top that it's incomplete.
yeah plus I bet all of us have seen a "______ was disappeared in China" news headline at least once, there's a reason why Chinese citizens are so careful about how they talk about the government in public spaces. the US is bad but we definitely have it better than China
yeah, the latest source listed in that wiki-article is dated 2019
JT is genuinely delusional. MLs cannot discern reality
wikipedia isn't a real source for anything. you can use it to find primary sources that they cite or to get a basic bourgeois narrative of something, but that entity is controlled by some sub-contracted state mechanism.. so certain things simply won't see the light of day on there regardless of how extensively it's cited
Yeah and you’d have to be an idiot to genuinely believe that the Chinese police has not killed anyone since 2019 lmao
I love how, with how many crimes that can make it legal for you to be enslaved being a direct consequence of poverty, it's a round-about way of saying "It's either you work for enough pay, or you work for nothing".
And most of the country believes we got rid of the debtor's prisons.
You mean not enough pay
¿so you work for nothing or you work for nothing?
@@vii-kaYep.☝😌
Yeah, what disturbs me is how powerful the propaganda is that convinces many people that the only possible way to organize society is to have a few hundred people own everything, and everyone else have to make them more rich most of the time they’re awake or die in the streets
All anyone has to do to understand this is watch the movie Red Dawn. Suddenly when the US is invaded, Americans are considered patriotic when they fight a guerilla war on the big bad Soviets. Yet some how we don't see this when the citizens of other countries do the same when they are invaded. They are considered "terrorist" for fighting back.
"Avengggge meeeeee..."
@@mackone8035omg my parents mentioned this movie it was crazy to hear them so freaked about the dirty Soviet’s knowing full well that America would of done far worse and has. The highest levels of our government have knowingly aided terrorists that threatened and killed children. So it just seems so dumb.
Well yea. When Americans fight a guerilla war against invaders, they're the good guys and the people they fight are the bad guys. When Americans invade another country and are met with guerilla fighters, they're still the good guys and the people they fight are the bad guys. It makes perfect sense... if you're American.
It's nationalist propaganda at work
I'd be on the soviet side if that ever happened. The wolverines were terrorists, moreso than how the US considers self-defense terrorism.
I remember in 2003, someone responded to me talking about the PATRIOT act by saying "If it was as bad as you say, you would be in jail now."
Slow walking is how everything happens. When they rush we notice. I just do not like how this guy is just an anti capitalist basically saying that the Soviet Union and China were "not so bad" based on checks notes.... their word
like many chinese people wow
@@soul1d yeah america bad wait they are doing it too oh they have to so stupid and he never really tells us the basic premise of the video because he can't he would have to say something bad about china
The trick of it all is that the public and private spaces within the US have been turned into a Panopticon via electronic surveillance and mass data gathering. Even this comment is recorded and linked to my record for later analysis.
8:03 minor correction here, the US is not the only country that has used nuclear weapons in war. France "tested" a nuclear bomb on Algerian land in 1960, 2 years before their peace treaty, rendering the impacted land unusable to this day
Wasn’t the Algerian Civil War in the 90s?
@@goroakechi6126 Yes, but the 1960s was the Algerian War of Independence
Yes, and both France and US tested nukes on Native Islands in the Pacific
Wow 😳🤦🏿♂️
and to this day there's neither apology nor compensation for the victims btw
I want to additionally point out that the president of the United States is able to legally pardon all of his cronies, who were found guilty by a jury of citizens, the week before stepping down, and we think we aren't auth.
it's okay though because he was elected in the race between corrupt old guy and spicy corrupt old guy
/s
It is a waste of human resources to not have a pardoning system of some form or another.
That president is currently facing 91 criminal charges and 4 indictments... There are flaws in American democracy and accountability. That's not the same as it not existing.
Other than Trump, when has that ever happened in the history of the US of A?
@@dangelo1369 people will say Nixon, but that was after he was impreached and resigned. Arguably still a problem, but the idea that presidents are basically dictators because some of the systems of accountability have flaws is fundamentally a silly argument. That's an argument that the U.S. justice system has flaws that should be fixed. There is a categorical difference between that and "The Kim family is in charge forever".
One problem with Authoritarianism is lately people (Specifically The Far-Right) are disguising it as "Christian Nationalism" & some people can't tell the difference.
Funny you should mention Christian Nationalism 👀
@@SecondThoughtNew vid about that soon?
Right-wing Christianity itself is a contradiction as the bible says we should treat every person as a man.
I mean…there’s a good degree of overlap there. They’re not entirely mutually exclusive.
Because differences are superficial and matter only to people who think dictionary definitions are definitive, unless talking about your side outside autofallation.
Imagine having the gall to say, the US has the worst police force in the world when Brazil exists. For those of you who don’t know Brazil’s police forse killed 6430 last year while having 2/3 the US population.
Brazil is a capitalist country, so you’re only proving his point. Usually neocolonial projects are going to have worse human rights records. My family is from El Salvador, I know this is the case.
Wow, that's a pretty scary horse. I hope they get a new one.
@@EmpireCrusher203 All countries in current existence are capitalist what are you even talking about.
@@AD-qc5zd Today I learned that Cuba, Vietnam, and the People's Republic of China don't exist.
@@randyohm3445 lol the horse is out of control
Fascist video, why did you not mention the Nazis when it comes to authoritarian countries? Also the secret police are very much different than regular American police.
How are secret police very much different than regular American police?
@@BeitownitIf you really think that the modern American police is in any way comparable to the Gestapo or the Cheka, you know NOTHING about history.
"Authoritarianism is a red flag for a lot of people."
I see what you did there.
That’s actually amazing
red scare link?
@@sm1purplmurderedme583 also no no german flag link
I mean in regards to the USSR, yes.
ywah he gave the game away they are all authoritarian lol
Why not mention the Nazis?
Or any right wing dictatorship on third world countries or other leftwing ones
He wanted to claim the word "authoritarian" is only used against so-called "communist" countries, and therefore authoritarianism doesn't really exist
Today I witnessed something truly upsetting upon visiting my local Walmart. After being renovated, Walmart intentionally designed an inefficient system that is prone to longer checkout lines so they can promote a new fast lane subscription to increase profits. We are told that capitalism promotes innovations but here, it is actively hindering our humanity's progress with no better reason than corporate greed.
because the governments second thought is defending are "promoting humanity's progress".
Nice, you are blaming corporations, which means you hate an inherently socialist entity.
@@YharonSilvait's an excuse, never a goal
It promotes innovation for the sake of increasing profits, not bettering humanity.
@@cantree2574
> corporations
> socialist
pick one
I can't tell you how many times I've asked someone "does it seem to be reasonable to call a nation with 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prison population the freest nation on the planet?". Oh, the mental gymnastics I've seen...
"They are free to go anywhere they want as long as it is inside their cell!"
The US has a predatory legal system that exploits the weak, big shock. That’s how the entire country operates since the beginning.
You can own guns, can criticize your government, can protest, can sue the government, can sue corporations, can change the government. In China any attempts of those six would leave you getting beaten by police with batons at the minimum, not to mention reducing social credit(can’t board trains or planes), silencing social media, and threatening your family. The freedom to do these things is what makes the US free. Unless you are calling for freedom to do crime, the US is free.
Where the US sucks is how it pushes people to crime by having 0 welfare and costing way too much for basic living. If you want freedom to do whatever you want and still earn a living, you’ll need about 40%+ taxes as shown in North European countries, that doesn’t get passed because democracy.
You people either chose this or doesn’t give enough of a crap to demand a change. That doesn’t make your country not-free. That just means your country are filled with and ran by jackasses.
Also your question is as stupid as “does it seem reasonable to call a nation with 100% approval rating totalitarian?”
Freedom to chose. A lot just choose crime :(
@daxlucero2437 that's not really the point. Even my sister-in-law when she was stationed at the US Naval hospital in Germany came back and said "sure, America is the land of the free, if you just ignore how many more things are illegal here.".
Funny thing: I was reading the article from Engels and after a few sentences I was like "wait a minute, why don't I read the original in German"? (I'm German). So I looked up the original and it turns out, the language he used is sooo out of date, it is actually easier for me to read the english version. So I switched back.
I don’t know anything about German or Germany, but I heard that your language is super fractured and can vary wildly between different areas in Germany. If so, that makes sense.
Thats so interesting. It wasn't even that long ago in the grand scheme of things
@@user-lk7cv8vg7r Yea that might be part of it too. It's also mostly his Spelling wich makes it so difficult/annoying to read. If you read it out loud it sounds way closer to modern german.
@@user-lk7cv8vg7r
I mean, when your country spawned out of the international nightmare that was the HRE, makes sense your language is not the most consistent across regions.
And when you were done reading it did you go "Wow that was vapid!"?
I don’t know boss, zero people killed by Chinese cops doesn’t sound realistic.
Perhaps disappearances aren’t counted
You don't live in China, though.
Does that mean there are no disappearances in USA which is unaccounted for? Perhaps the brainwashing about China and the 'disappearances' is too ingrained to be removed. Each country has it's own governance. US and the west can't count itself to be the arbiter of human rights. It's just political evangelism - my belief and system is superior to yours! Let each country be judged for their system without interference as US loves to. Self appointed global police, judge and executioner. That's the takeaway from this video.
yeah, it does sound unrealistic, but it for certain a lot lower than usa. People disappearing because of the government is no less a conspiracy as people disappearing in usa. dont act like china is this backward country where the government can just arrested people without reason. just a very small abuse from the police will easily spread through china's media. the main reason for china's low police death is because chinese police dont carry fire arms normally so there is little chance for killings to happen
when the police have guns and the criminals don't, it's pretty much auto surrender.
who the hell wouldn't mention Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Hirohito before talking about *Cuba* as authoritarian? there's a clear reason why he doesn't mention the axis powers at all when he presents the list of regime's considered authoritarian because he wants to paint a picture about authoritarianism being a necessary and acceptable part of socialism, even though he won't say it explicitly. this is not socialist advocacy
Do you think the US shouldn't have sided with the socialists in ww2? Since you seem to think they were more evil and bad then hitler and the other fascists. Also Cuba is incredibly democratic, much more then really any other country, especially the US.
Iran and Saudi Arabia are also often considered authoritarian. It really isn't bound by politics; any extreme can be authoritarian.
@@JamieElli but it is bound by politics, to say that it isn’t would be foolish. Especially when considering that most extremes lead back to a form of fascism. Russia was fascist and authoritarian back then as it is now.
This is no where near advocacy for socialism, he advocates for authoritarianism just straight up.
He also seems to gloss over very casually how Marx advocated for a stateless society, probably out of convenience.
@@SithBy11 someone doesn't understand what Marxism is. There is no "turn off class society" button its a long process that takes a strong centralized authority. And for the record socialist countries have ALL been more democratic then any other countries before or after.
Slate ran a series a few years ago called "If It Happened There," which was all about how US news would be reported if the same thing were happening in a foreign nation. It's a really great way to look at how word choice and framing affects the perception of events.
link?
@@asuka_the_void_witch I don't think I can post links in comments, but if you google "if it happened there," you'll find it.
absolutely, in the mid to late 2000s the US news agencies really began using selective words to imply OR remove negative connotations, in a clearly defined effort toy with peoples perceptions of the story.
i still remember very vividly, in the early 2010s, there was a suicide bomber attack in a crowded marketplace in Afghanistan.
The AP / Routers headlines: 70 civilians and several US soldiers were killed in a suicide bomb attack in a crowded market.
the BBC: suicide attack kills scores of civilians and kills 4 US soldiers
CNN: a suicide bomb attack kills 4 US soldiers stationed in ___insert town name___ reports of heavy civilian casualties
FOX: the enemy used suicide bombers to attack and kill 4 Us soldiers in a market place (no mention of civilian deaths)
I wish Americans would just stop using the word "liberal". So confusing.
i mean they arent totally wrong, as in everyone who isnt a commie (probably less than 10%) or a nazi is a liberal in the US. Those numbers look very differently in the rest of the world, europe for example.
I don't have an issue with it. The issue is when people equate liberals to socialists and communists despite the fact that liberals (especially wealthy ones) would sooner support fascists before socialists and communists.
which americans? maybe the right-wingers using the word as a slur!
@drewm9903 That might be the dumbest statement i've ever read.
Liberalism is the antithesis of fascism, and usually, the fascists will try to ally with the communists and the socialists.
Liberalism is the bullwalk that holds together a stable society. Communism and fascism are the poison that destroys it.
There are just neoconservatives and Christian nationalists
China's police killings data is not available. The wikipedia page you quoted is just a list of the police killings the author of the article was able to track down. If you look at the world data for police killings, China and Russia are grayed out because we don't have data for those countries.
As to the US being the highest in the world, that is also incorrect. We have the highest amount of killings per capita in the developed world. If you do a full survey of all countries though, the Philippines, Brazil, and Venezuela are all in the realm of 5-6 times that of the US, despite having lower populations. There's also a few nations that are "n the vicinity of police killings as the US, though not in the developed world.
BodyCam evidence is only provided in 20% of cases involving a complaint against an officer, but 90% of the cases prosecuting a civilian.
The police protect and serve THEMSELVES first. Everything after that is all about damage control and CYA. Sure, most cadets start off wet behind the ears and hungry for "justice", but after a few bullets fly their way, they're ready for ruthless methods to remain in power, get paid, and eventually move up in the law enforcement hierarchy.
and china provides zero percent they probably kill twice as many a year I mean I know they execute a ton of people a year
I, an anarchist, have already abolished bedtime! it is 4.56 am, and I am still wide awake!
I wouldnt support 2d thought
dudes been revealed to be a russian apologist and tankie
and his views on palestine arent cool either
@amberharmsen2497 so would you be the American apologists with thr right views on Palestine then?
no gods no masters no bedtime
Hi there from Russia. I have some things to say about my country, what's actually to live in the state that almost unilaterally considered to be authoritarian. But I only can compare it with Europe, I was able to visit some EU countries around 10-12 years ago (Finland, Netherlands, Latvia). I can clearly see struggles of American people in not so developed and wealthy states. It reminds me the situation in Russia outside of any bigger city, like Moscow or Saint Petersburg. Although you can somewhat say that people in Moscow and Saint Petersburg are privileged comparing to other regions and smaller towns, there's still a lot of impoverished people everywhere. For example we live for around $3500-4000 a year for family of three, which is even for Russia isn't much, plus tons of my health issues that prevents me from working and there's no disabilities pensions with my condition and even people with severe disabilities are usually on their own, government doesn't care. I'd say Russia is pretty close to neoliberal totalitarian dystopia, with unprecedented levels of corruption, nepotism, police brutality, but despite all of that society is still keeping its normality and operability somehow, and it's just amazes me in a good way.
We still have a lot of soviet traits in certain areas, but that's mainly because of lack of lustrations and the fact that after fall of USSR there was a major power grab by ex-KGB crooks that now wasn't restricted by any rules and went to do business with organized crime, making hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions at expense of usual people. Adam Curtis documentary "TraumaZone" shows this transition to wild capitalism really well, but it's hard for me to watch, painful even. Somehow world thought back then that unrestricted capitalism in the environment without any capitalistic market experience and 70 years or planned economy prior, would be a great idea. The sick idea of worldwide competition between the states based on sales markets, rather than cooperation is wild to me. It's the perfect recipe for WW3 or something. The more I see the deeds of governments, the more I like Bakunin and Kropotkin.
You got that Russian fire spirit inside you. Thanks for your insight on Russia, very informative.
be safe and thanks for sharing
$3500-4000 for the family of three is a pretty big number for Russia, I don't know what you're talking about (unless you're from Moscow, but then you can't talk about Russia at all. It's too different from Moscow)
@@user-xh3nm8oe2l лол? Раздели 400 тыс рублей на 12. Это 33 тыс в месяц на троих в Питере - по 11 тыс на человека. Минус лекарства, походы по врачам и тд и тп. В Москве как раз было бы легче, там и коммуналка дешевле и еда в магазинах тоже, но хз как сейчас, так было до войны. Может ты ошибся подумал что я написал не 4 тыс баксов, а 40?
@@user-xh3nm8oe2l a year, not a month.
Why did you leave out Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy in your examples of authoritarianism?
Because we must not dare question the narrative
Because pointing out that China/Russia/North Korea pulling the same shit Nazi Germany did makes you childish because shut up it just does
Because he talks about the USA???
@@tomgu2285 How does that address what I said?
To present 'authoritarianism' as a necessary evil of what he believes is socialism, going to bat for the atrocities of past socialist projects and making milquetoast comparisons devoid of scope to make the US/West seem just as bad.
If authoritarianism is mentioned as a part of far-right/fascist political structure, that undermines his plan to write off authoritarianism as merely being red scare propaganda.
Remember that reactionaries' plans largely depend on their opponents playing nice, that's why liberals are ineffective against the far-right, because they're naïve enough to think that the far-right will play nice in return. Marx and Engel were right in their historical analysis, that revolutions rarely happen peacefully, because you can't expect to win democratically in the system that is heavily rigged so that those that designed the system can't lose. Because I'm not free in many aspects under capitalism already, I wouldn't mind not being totally free under socialism, because at least the kind of "freedom" that I could have is the one that matters for me and the working class. Sure, I may lose the freedom to own slave, for example, but that's totally acceptable loss for me because I don't own a slave and I don't plan to own one.
I feel like this was a missed opportunity to point out how most people are against "authoritarianism," but fail to see how inherently authoritarian Capitalism is. Either way, great video.
Just like to point out anarchists are very much against both state authortarianism and the authority of capitalism.
@@tomdron Anarchists arent most people, thankfully.
@@jakobsmith4046 Care to expound upon that?
either authoritarianism cant exist OR authoritarianism is the word for class rule. for the latter the question is: what class has the authority? in capitalism the class is the minority bourgeoisie
That would require a separate similar video defining capitalism and discusses its myths and misconceptions.
It's also fun to note that the Department of Defense was founded in 1947. We had a Department of War prior to that, which is a far more accurate title.
Virtually every single fucking country on this planet has a ministry or department of defense, this isn't some weird propaganda psyops naming scheme by the US, it's literally just convention
After two world wars the West needed to rebrand themselves lmao
@@muffinfighter3680 do you know how to read
13:41 - Hold up, bud. How many people were permanently "disappeared" in China, via governmental means, during that same timeframe?
While we in the U.S. have an observable and significant problem with extrajudicial police executions, I believe that State-sanctioned deaths should be calculated in not only the the situations where police have used deadly force, but also when the state government has used their judicial (and extra-judicial) system to exact the death penalty or penal life sentence on a person. Either way essentially removes the person from societal existence. It's a deletion of a single person, whether it's by immediate action via police, publicly visible trial, or subtle State action.
There have been numerous examples of State-supported, extra-judicial disappearances in past regimes. So, what information is there to say that isn't happening right now?
Did you know that the USA has the largest prison population in the world in both relative and absolute terms. The United States tops the list with 2.2 million, followed by China, with 1.7 million. But it's worth remembering that the USA has a population 4 times smaller, which means that the chance of a citizen being arrested in the USA is 5 times greater
Yep, that bit felt a little misinformed 😅..
What are you talking about?
1. How would you even count "state-supported extrajudicial disappearances"
2. Literally the CIA
3. Do you think the CCP can just "disappear" thousands of people without anyone noticing?
@@user-zh5wi4fv2f well on 3, they probably could. Are you going to count a billion people? The only one keeping track of the population is the CCP, and any numbers that we know about China are the ones they give us
I don't quite agree with the claim at 18:20 about that back in the days socialists rehabilitated people better than Western authorities did. I live in a post-soviet country so I'm not sure about western practices related to prisons, but in the USSR (as I see from my side) prisons generally weren't perceived as a place where people can rehabilitate. Rather they served as an isolation place for criminals and dissidents
That's also American prisons. Hell, sometimes, there may be rehab here in America. So yeah, he lied, the USSR is terrible
This guy in the video doesn’t know anything about Soviet prisons. He just wants to spread pro Soviet propaganda.
He’s a tankie Soviet apologist.
@@ZaoMedong- buzzword buzzword buzzword?
I think his point was that just like american prisons the gulags were places were you served a sentence and then that is it. Of course both societies discriminated against ex convicts. The number of people who served their sentence in the gulag and then lived the rest of their lives as free citizens dwarfs the number of those that died in the gulags and most of those deaths occured post Barbarossa when the soviet union was desperately fighting for survival against a genocidal enemy. As we all know resources werent exactly plentiful during those years
If "authoritarianism" is an appropriate word to describe the practices necessary to achieve, protect, and sustain an honorable socialist "project" (sorry, your use of that term is new to me), how do we recognize when those same or similar practices are being over-used or abused, and how do we label them then? Or does being not-as-evil as the US, plus proclaiming "socialist" ideals, render other nations (e.g., USSR, PRC) immune from criticism (or even excoriation)?
I would suggest that a responsible socialist authority needs to protect itself not only from the forces of reaction, but also from the temptations of corruption, arrogance, indifference, self-aggrandizement, self-entrenchment, and other symptoms of the instutionalized sociopathy that seems to afflict virtually all power structures. 👀
When anarchists critique the USSR or China, tankies write it off as sensationalism or propaganda. "Socialist authority" is an oxymoron--If a society is truly egalitarian, then the power is diffused as widely as possible (decentralization) so that no one group has outsized influence. This is the key to successful society building in the eyes of anarcho-communists.
You can't, that's why they try to divert the attention to the wrongs of other nations and not accepting the criticism of their own
@@nestorcsamacho6328 Right?! It seemed like he kept pointing at other groups going "look they bad too" while not realising that doesn't help his case lol
because he is wrong and just wants to excuse china
@@DrippyWaffler yeah he saying the US does it so china should do it too China is not a socialist nation at all he even said so in older videos someone paid him
The terms "totalitarianism" and "authoritarianism" were popularized by Hannah Arendt's book "The Origins of Totalitarianism", in which she falsely equates Nazism with Marxism. The book was heavily promoted by the CIA.
That’s very interesting. Never heard about that before.
@@willymack5677Neither has anybody else.
No, she equates Nazism with Soviet Communism under Stalin. Don't equate that with "Marxism".
@@isaiahfisher2337 Yeah, people should actually read the books(there's 3 parts) instead of using the presence of a word to spin a narrative. That original statement up there is just not true.
@@isaiahfisher2337 I’d have to agree in that case
JT: Anarchists just want to abolish bed time
Me, an anarchist, making a PB&J in my Star Wars pajamas: Um, RUDE
the dudes a tankie this video is his mask off moment
marx had a term for peeps like second thought "crude communists"
@@amberharmsen2497 not the tAnKiEs
@@alexanderredhorse1297 this entire video is trying to whitewash the image of totalitarian states like the USSR which essentially did the same shit as the nazis lmao.
Mfw when Hitler killing ethnic minorities is genocide but when stalin does it its ok because hes getting rid of fifth collumnists
@@Shrewdilus I agree. While I love the whole Deprogram gang, I do wish they looked a little more into anarchist ideologies and theories. I can take a joke, but it does get frustrating when it feels like that's all we are to the bread tubers.
@@alexanderredhorse1297 driving tanks into nominally sovereign nations to crush self determination movements tends to be bad soo
okay so let me get this straight America does authoritarian things and that's bad, but because they do them other countries like China and Russia can do the same thing and that's okay? Remind me again why we are defending authoritarianism?
Russia invaded Ukraine because the US government approved NATO expasion into Ukraine. China is villainized because America can't compete with China economically.
I guess Russia and China are fine. America is the only evil one here.
@taehokim336 NATO expansion into Ukraine is a weird way to phrase a nation voluntarily joining a defense alliance after feeling threatened by its neighbours
@taehokim336 Russia would have invaded Ukraine even if NATO had kept it's original borders, the US approving NATO's expansion into Ukraine is not only not authoritarian but also not justification for Russia to invade. I mean think about it what would Russia get if they were successful in the invasion? they'd still be next to a NATO country if they took Ukraine, not only a NATO country but Poland and i can tell you this much the relationship between Russia and Poland is not a friendly one. So Russia wouldn't be any safer if the invasion had gone how they hoped it went, in fact I'd argue it would probably be far less safe. So what does Russia get? Land, Resources, People, Money, Power. that's what Russia wanted they don't care about NATO expansion they only care in so much that this was the last chance they get to takeover land before it becomes completely nonviable.
The US is 100X more authoritarian than China
@TheStringyGamer you're joking right? if second thought were to make a video as critical of china as it is critical of the US while living in china he would get disappeared. china is a dictatorial state with very limited free speech to the point where they have to have their own social media so the state can monitor it's citizens activity and don't even get me started on the Uyghur muslims. The US by comparison is far more free and saying shit like "china is less authoritarian then the US" not only gives china more leeway for their draconian laws but the US as well.
When I was in school during the 1980s I remember the teachers applying the word authoritarian to any country that wasn't an American-style democracy.
Wouldn’t that apply also to democratic countries that didn’t use the American-style?
And saying that USA is a representative democracy… it’s a big stretch
The irony is theirs barely democracy left in America
@@andrewreynolds912 when did america have democracy? 1968-2000?
@@kaiserruhsamits... a little complicated 😕
You got me when you reached the part where US has never fought a "defensive" war and still call it the department of "defense".
OFFENSE is also a form of DEFENSE.
Motherfuckers defense is the word everyone uses in the field of military studies. Every country has a "defense" budget, this isn't some kind of gotcha against the US
@@rjrich2322 that’s not what the US is doing though. You have no comprehensive abilities
@bingusgrangus1441 Neither you,maybe.Military minded people know well,my friend, so don't underestimate what I am saying.🧐😇
@@rjrich2322 lol I know more than and that’s evident by your first reply. The us military goal is imperialism and that is it. It’s hard for countries to be a nuisance when they’re inadvertently in your empire
What hanging out with Hakim does to a mf
Tankie brain rot.
Did this dude just give a lecture about authoritarianism and completely neglect to mention Nazi Germany even once?
That would have rendered his entire opinion useless
Well Second Though is a Nazi, so of course he wouldn’t
The video is about how people use the word authoritarianism more than it is about the history of authoritarian violence, and he actually does mention it in the latter half of the video. Did you even watch the whole video before making this comment?
Or Pinochet, Mussolini, the list of convenient omissions is immense
@@NakedSophistry I'm sure everyone did, I personally couldn't stop watching after he compared secret police (not mentioning the Gestapo or NKVD btw) with plain clothes police. I really wanted to see the outcome of his "brilliant" research.
I have always used authoritarian to mean a system of control that requires absolute obedience to an authority, which is enforced through domination tactics such as withholding basic necessities, isolation, and/or harsh, escalating levels of punishment. I use it to describe my fundamentalist Christian upbringing under an "authoritarian" father.
My dad hated playing the heavy. On the other hand I had a couple of teachers that took advantage of the ability to apply corporal punishment, which I strongly disagree with. If I could go back in time I would dole out retribution but they are dead now so...good.
That's a good definition.
This video is about authoritarianism but never once mentions Fascist Italy or Germany, or any military dictatorship like in Egypt or like there was in Libya. And this video even strongly implicates a defence for North Korea. This video claims not to be attacking America and yet spends most of its runtime talking about America.
It is completely false and insulting to suggest that China and the Soviet Union are not authoritarian. It is absolutely baffling the amount of disingenuous ideological bullshit I find in these videos. I don't think the person making these videos is a bad person, but it speaks to his character with how willingly he is to lie blatantly and twist logic. Seriously, why does this video spend so long criticising America?
(It's because if you focus on China and Russia you will quickly realise that there is no disputing how authoritarian they are)
@@BleedForTheWorld meangless term after meaningless term. liberals(like you) could make up their own language out of all the stupid terms they(and you) make up, its like a cia backed variation of english.
@@t.7124what is authoritarianism at a fundamental level then? and what criteruas make china and the ussr "authoritarian"
Having just read what Engels had to say, I have this to say:
There is a meaningful distinction in the authority that you choose than the one that is imposed upon you.
when starvation forces your hand, though, that distinction flies away fast.
choice itself is put under assault when the ability to continue living is directly threatened, say, by starvation, thirst, or bombs being dropped.
@@pallingtontheshrike6374I’d argue that is just imposed authority by indirect means, the commenter’s point still stands
@@akindatallmidget6508 then choice would only ever apply isolated completely from material need, in other words, among the ruling class or a labor aristocracy…
It seems like you do really have a choice
Are you just defending Authoritarian behavior? Also why did you never being up the most popular Authoritarian Regime, the failed artist of the German people?
You clearly either didn't watch the video or you're stupid
he critizsed Authoritarism thru out the video, all he did was highlighted that it's more present even in alegent "democratic systems" like the US
he basicly used the actual definition rather then the classic political disagree with me and you are Authoritarian
which is basicly what you do
nazi = Authoritarian
Like we all know that's bad
but then again the US if you watch the video does plenty of bad too
you just don't want to label some things as Authoritarian because you have a negative view on it, aka you have no fking clue what it's actual defintion is
@@lets-disagree-peacefullybruh dude you say that like the US doesn't contantly mush anti china propaganda, the only diffrence is that 1 is honest about it's rule the other makes you think you have control
it's like you either get ruled by XI or the rich class that gives you "control" while feeding you a shitty life
just saying one of these 2 places offers a better quality of life but it sure ain't the US
Yes, he’s a fascist. He wants to construe use of the word authoritarianism as being only an anti-communist slur rather than pointing to similarities between the Nazi’s and Soviets because that’s just not a convenient thing to do when you’re actually not a socialist at all and just want to defend fascism.
Second thought is a tankie in disguise.
His dismissal of the term takie at the beginning is a consequence of this, tankies are afraid of the term because they know very well that it is a valid derogatory term that fits them perfectly.
Yes he is defending authoritarianism.
I'm dubious that US detention centers house far more people than the Soviet Union ever did. First of all, comparing a present-tense number with an implicitly cumulative "ever" makes the claim substantially more extreme. The number for the USSR that shows up on a web search is 18 million. "Detention centers" means facilities other than regular prisons. A search gives me an estimate from Global Detention Project, of 50,000 people in US detention centers. The whole penal system is something like six million.
Our government commits atrocities, but that doesn't make the USSR blameless. As of 6:40, this video is looking bad, like heading toward an unsubscribe.
How can we as socialist be sure that the numbers china has given are correct? 13:40
For me it is still difficult to belief. Of course I want the numbers to be true, but I think that is dangerous. That is why I try to be more critical.
Was going to comment this too, the CCP has a history of faking numbers sadly.
Well given that Wikipedia tends to have a heavy liberal bias to portray china in a bad light much of the time, it does atleast show that they made that statement because it's the info they actually have.
What we can say for sure, is that China's numbers, even if that 0 isn't 100% accurate, will always be much lower than the US simply because the way they organize their police force is substantially different than the US.
So there's that
You'd know because western media would be screaming about it any chance they get. Also china is socialist
Why wouldn't you believe them? Do you believe the numbers from your government? China has seen protests over inflation and unemployment recently. No people were murdered. Unlike the ones in the US.
fun fact they aren't true obviously
Authoritarianism is when I'm not allowed to eat the drywall at Home Depot.
The Lowe's drywall just isn't the same.
No, comrade. It's the PEOPLE'S DRYWALL now!
Imagine trying to argue that gulags are prisons used to rehabilitate people. Holy shit, the mental gymnastics in this video are insane
They literally were
is it any more insane than arguing us prisons exist to rehabilitate people?
that was literally what they were for yes, all documents both external and internal in the soviet union talk about this
he didn't argue for that, you're brain dead
@@firstnamelastname442 Blatant whataboutism.
Every single argument I hear in favour of Communist authoritarianism can be used to excuse fascist authoritarianism.
Exactly. Everything he says can and is used to excuse right wing dictatorships all over the world, including the ones the socialists attack the most, such as Pinochet’s dictatorship in Chile
funny thing, communism cannot be authoratarian. Communism is an anarchistic ideology.
Thats because second thought is a state capitalist, otherwise known as a facist!
@@nathanl4083 You mean Marxist-Leninist. Pretty clear difference.
Exactly
Honestly I'm just confused after watching this. Basically you say since everyone does authoritarian stuff we too will have to and there is no other way. You give examples for different "authoritarian things" that all kinds of countries around the world do and because everyone does it we just have to live with it. For a channel that usually preaches democratic control of society this just feels so strange to me.
I would say authoritarian is something undemocratic, strict hierarchies that the elites in power use to oppress/control the people and create/keep their monopoly on power. I agree that in that sense western "democracies" are also quite authoritarian, but as are one party states/dictatorships. After all, they all follow capitalism wich, in my eyes, is THE big authoritarian system in our world. But we (or at least I) do not want to just continue like that, our goal is to create something better for the future. A society where the people are in control.
Of course such a society will probably still need something like prisons and ways to defend itself, but does it have to be authoritarian. There are democratic ways to organize or we should at least try to find them, just like this channel usually tells us.
Also I'm not trying to say to simply go vote because i doubt that a revolution will be peaceful , but again, even in a revolution there should be ways to organize democratically. Otherwise (and now to probably my most controversial take) we will just end up with a new entrenched elite at the top (I dont care what they call themselves or if they pinky promise they'll do a communism) and then why even go through the troubles of a revolution.
But I'm no specialist in leftist ideologies, I'm still rather new and just learning and trying to find something for me, idk maybe I'm completely wrong.
The unfortunate thing about running a government of any type is you're eventually going to have to so some shady shit to keep it running. There's no real way to avoid it
Why want a revolution? because the revolution is to take power away from economic elites and large corporations and give it to the people. They will attack back so it is impossible not to have a State after the revolution.
And they will resort to racism, nationalism, religiosity, terrorism, all possible means to not lose power, and they will have to be repressed.
The bigger problem, is that capitalism is a hindrance to human development, as it fosters individualism, competition, infinite growth and exploitation, and will cause our end, whether through climate change, or a nuclear war between nuclear powers, which compete for natural resources with others.
The socialist state is just a transition, towards a society where profit and exploitation are no longer a priority, instead of solidarity and cooperation.
literally everything is authoritarian, this might sound stupid but just as JT explained, the term is only applied on a purely ideological basis in the west. authority can be applied democratically, as paradoxical as that might sound. it’s just as authoritarian to say “you can’t advocate for genocide” as it is to say “you can’t advocate for gay rights”. however one of these is obviously good while the other is bad. the point is, instead of operating on this dissonant ideological framework, we need to accept that authority can be utilised by the collective to actually do good things rather than reject it at all costs like anarchists and lib-socs do.
@@itsukizy Hm maybe. I guess its a question of definition, but I wouldn't say authoritarian = authority. Authority would absolutely have to be used by the people, I think every society needs some authority, but just as u say, applied democratically (through delegates or assemblies or whatever). I doubt that people that are against authoritarianism are against all authority, just against undemocratic centralized and somewhat unaccountable authority (At least thats what most people I know would call authoritarian).
But again if you define authoritarian to mean absolutely everything this discussion doesn't matter, because its a useless definition and should not be used.
Please please please go away from this channel if you are learning about leftism, this guy is a straight up fascist. The fact that this video can be used to defend nazi germany should say enough
We need a conversation about systems that are quite tyrannic, especially by surveillance, secret security apparatus, political canceling of employment, and brutal police,
-- where you cannot show an autocrat.
The first time I saw this video I found it compelling but the more I've thought about it the more my opinion has changed. He spends the first part of the video rightly critiquing the authoritarianism and hypocrisy of the United States, then the second doing apologetics for Marxist-Leninist States. He also pretends anti-authoritarian socialism is a western thing when it's not, there are libertarian socialists and anarchists all over the world. I'm not going to defend, downplay, or excuse the atrocities of my own country so I'm certainly not going to do the same thing the USSR, China, or North Korea just so I can claim those countries as examples of "successful socialist projects". Look, I'm not naive enough to think capitalism can be defeated peacefully, but I refuse to play this game of "the Bolsheviks only did what they had to" or "come on guys North Korea isn't all that bad".
Thank you
NK who we bome-d into the Stone Age and have a military puppet state ready to destroy them. You’re a white supremacist, western chauvinist, settler colonial “leftists” that dosent make sense
Settler colonial white supremacist leftist 🙄
welp since im an anarchist i will say it agains goverments sucks no matter where they are.
Precisely. American government now makes me extremely skeptical of governments ability to get things done, imagine if they had control of all means of production. While communism sounds good, the execution most likely would be sloppy at best, and catastrophic at worst, and this is EXACTLY what is observable in our history of socialist attempts. "Dictatorship of the proletariat" will inevitably become "Dictatorship".
Okay, this is just ridiculous. While I agree there's a ton wrong with the States' policing, to take China's word at face value that there's zero police murder is absolutely disingenuous or lazy
Yeah, that part made me do the rock eyebrow thing
Second thought is really shoving his hand into that giant chinese money bag, huh...
Given that Chinese police almost never carry firearms, I find that a believable claim.
maybe you’re just an american and find it hard to believe that other countries police don’t treat their citizens badly? lol
@@sm1purplmurderedme583 yeah. the Chinese police definitely don't treat their citizens badly.
It's always surreal watching political videos aimed at citizens from the usa because they'll say something like "Hey, you might have never ever ever suspected this, but the usa is kinda evil" and I, living in latinamerica, will be like "No shit sherlock". This is in no way a criticism of your stuff by the way, more of my constant realization that "Wow, united states citizens really are like *that* huh?"
Trust me, as a Yank who wishes he wasn't, it is far from easy or even achievable for most Americans to break out of their belief that they are the undisputed good guys saving the world from tyranny. All resources that prove the contrary are often buried. Even when they aren't, the media apparatus kicks into overdrive to make sure public opinion favors the American ruling class' interests.
Yea, it'd be kinda funny if it wasn't so dangerous
This guy is just stupid and you might be too, but in good faith I’ll assume your not and inform you that “America Bad” is not rare or new in to americans
true only issue is china also bad they miss that part
And Americans will say he's overdoing it
Authoritarianism is bad
Him: well America is authoritarian in many ways
Me: yes and authoritarianism is bad
Him: well authoritarianism isn’t bad actually.
Me: so you think the authoritarianism used in America is good?
anarkiddy
No, the dictatorship of the proletariat is good, and capitalist states are bad. ez delineation
@@pumfeethermodynamics3286 dictatorships are not, and cannot be, left-wing. Left-wing politics is inherently liberation-al and libertarian. Just because you pretend left-wing doesn't mean that you escape the scrutiny of in fact just being the next boug asshole running the joint.
@@pumfeethermodynamics3286 Tyranny is tyranny, whether from the majority (the proletariat) or minority (the capitalist class).
@@floof_ch which is all cool and fun to say when there is plenty of tyranny at the moment and no means to untrench it
Second "Don't uncritically idolize the USA, instead uncritically idolize the USSR" Thought
He gargles Putler and Xi's balls so hard it's funny
lol have fun with your failures of ideology
@@americancommunist6076 oh the irony:
USSR - dead
DPRK - a dump
Cuba - shithole
China - turned capitalist
Vietnam - turned capitalist
Need i go on? 🤣
@@americancommunist6076
Brother youre a chronically online LARPer who wishes for steps 6 and 7 of a Proletarian Revolution when you are still in Step 1. No one will take you seriously especially in America
get off your phone or pc, go outside and organise instead of cosplaying 1983 Soviet Union
Im actually from an Ex ML state and we literally laugh at western LARPers like yourself. Why do you think the communist party lost in Russia?
Authoritarianism and Totalitarian are both meta-physical terms used to call any state, government, or system opressive without explaining the core Socio-Economic Structure of the State.
Cannot agree more
Nah sorry it isn‘t. You can have an authoritarian or hierarchical organzisation where power is concentrated to the top or you can have a horizontal organization where everyone has a say. Authority is often conflated with using force. For a better understanding anark rebuts the whole on authority essay in one of his latest videos very detailed.
authoritarianism is central government and totalitarianism is complete centralized government
absolutely not. metaphysical means spiritual , first of all
@@levelzanimations Wat!?
Unfortunately, the countries with parliaments (representative democracy) are in fact oligarchies (few lead). In order to be a true democracy, the decisions of the Parliament should be submitted to the approval of the citizens. The "fatigue" of democracy occurs when there is a big difference between the interests of those elected and the voters, so people lose confidence in the way society function. As a result, the poor and desperate citizens will vote with whoever promises them a lifeline, i.e. the populists or demagogues. The democratic aspect is a side effect in societies where economies have a strong competitive aspect, where the interests of those who hold economic power in society are divergent. Thus, those with money, and implicitly with political power in society, are supervising each other so that none of them have undeserved advantages due to politics. Because of this, countries with large mineral resources, like Russia and Venezuela (their share in GDP is large), do not have democratic aspects, because a small group of people can exploit these resources in their own interest. In poor countries, the main resource exploited may even be the state budget, as they have converging interests in benefiting, in their own interest, from this resource. This is what is observed in Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, no matter which party comes to power, the result is the same. The solution is modern direct democracy in which every citizen can vote, whenever he wants, over the head of the parliamentarian who represents him. He can even dismiss him if most of his voters consider that their interests are not right represented.
Those who think that democracy is when you choose someone to make decisions for you without him having to consult you, are either a fool or a scoundrel. It's like when you have to choose from several thieves who will steal from you. It's like when you have to build a house and you choose the site manager and the architect, but they don't have the duty to consult with you. The house will certainly not look the way you want it, but the way they want it, and even more surely you will be left without money and without the house. It is strange that outside of the political sphere, you will not find, in any economic or sports activity, someone elected to a leadership position and who has failure after failure and who is fired only after 4 years. We, the voters, must be consulted about the decisions and if they have negative effects we can dismiss them at any time, without to wait until the term to be fulfilled, because we pay, not them. In any company, the management team comes up with a plan approved by the shareholders. Any change in this plan must be re-approved by the shareholders and it is normal because the shareholders pay.
"The solution is modern direct democracy in which every citizen can vote, whenever he wants, over the head of the parliamentarian who represents him. He can even dismiss him if most of his voters consider that their interests are not right represented."
I just don't think this actually solves the problem. Here's why - most people don't have the bandwidth to actually understand deeply what they'd be voting on. (not that our representatives actually do their job well here either, but that's in the context of someone's "full time job" with advisors. If they can't do it, how do you expect people to pull that off in their spare time?) So you'd still basically have some sort of Influencer or Pundit or someone "suggesting" what people vote on an issue. Look at the Brexit vote for instance of how that'll play out. So different people (maybe) would pull the levers, but it's still going to be a small cadre, and again - just as influenced by money.
The other big problem is how do you deal with state secrets? Abolish them? I can well imagine that if you're telling everyone in the world everything you know - first, huge PR issues and alliance issues, but second - you're at a big disadvantage against any state that isn't doing that. And if you keep state secrets - well, how does the entire country vote on something they don't know about? Maybe you increase the number of things with *no* oversight, vs *some* oversight from special congressional committees.
Agreed. Also, that "in order to be a true democracy, the decisions of the Parliament should be submitted to the approval of the citizens", should be an absolute law in every "good" country. Not just ones with parliaments, but nations with congress's to of course. Additionally, citizens should be able to submit their own ideas for potential new legislation for approval by the legislative branch of the government and the nation's citizens too, just in case parliament's of corrupt oligarchs choose to combat this system by only proposing shite bills, for example. But ideally a corrupt individual would be ousted immediately anyway.
@@jamespulver3890 The two problems raised by you actually don't exist, because if you don't want to vote, it would be the same as before, when the parliamentarians make decisions in our place. I think you didn't read to the end or you skimmed. How can a state control the secret services? Like until now. Do you think that all parliamentarians know what is being discussed in the security committee? They don't know all the details either. Because of this, only certain approved parliamentarians can participate in that commission. The rest can vote on the budget and change the person who runs the secret services. That's all, nothing more, things that are public in any country, because everything that all parliamentarians know, the whole country knows. As you were talking about Brexit, it was an occasion for the change of the head of the secret service, because he allowed another country to influence public opinion in his country. But, anyway, the referendum was held because the party in power wanted the exit, being sure of victory and resorting to propaganda for it. Otherwise, what prevents the British from holding another referendum for EU entry, maybe the interest of the leaders? The problem is the organization of the mass media, because some people's money should not decide the editorial policy or that any publication should be obliged to publish its funding sources. Regarding the comprehension ability of the majority of citizens, you should know that this depends on the level of education of the citizens, which is directly related to the education system (make a comparison between Sweden and the USA), the social policy of the state, because if you live from one day to the next or if you have two jobs, you don't want to get informed anymore, because you don't have time for yourself. But these are problems due to the fact that it is not the citizens who decide, but only the rich, that is, the decisions are taken by the oligarchs. Anyway, the idea in life is not to never make a mistake, but to be able to quickly rectify any mistake, because the world has progressed by trying various solutions, some were bad, others were good. You are wrong if you think that the parliamentarians have better solutions, look at how they enriched a dictatorship like China, which will now turn against the USA, how they did the same with the USSR at the beginning, when no country wanted to establish commercial relations with that dictatorship.
6:35 I stopped watching there. Gulags have been responsible for millions of deaths. Comparing this horror to US detention centers is ignorant at best.
Also, the statement about America never fighting a defensive war is false. America entered WW2 after being attacked at Pearl Harbor. America fought a defensive war in Korea. The Revolutionary War was a defensive war. One could even make the argument that the war in Afghanistan was a defensive war, as it was started by the 9/11 attacks.
@@country_flyboy Don't forget the civil war
@@country_flyboy Exactly. I was initially interested in the video as I thought it would contain interesting, factual criticism. The dude could have made a rly good debate for instance on how US has in the last year tried to distance itself from a "good democracies vs evil authoritarian regimes" world diplomacy, at least in speeches, as it risks alienating a lot of in-between nations that dislike this dichotomy, and thus bring them closer to Russia & China. But no, he decided to spout blatant lies...
I only continued watching to see him devolve into being Pro Fascist. Spolier warning, he talks about how civil liberties must be stripped during a project to "protect from reactionaries." So yeah, justifying a police state
Do some research on Gulags and what they actually were. Check your sources every time too, make sure it doesnt trace back to Nazis.
The Conflation Of the USSR with the Nazis is a great Mistake.
@snowcat9308 I think you forgot that Israel Exists. Westoid failed abortion.
@@rjagad not allowed abortion in a "free" system
@@canstein8666 Women wanted a ban on abortion because previously they were often forced to have it in russia. If they tell truth.
why is "but on authority" the only thing you ever hear from marxists about anarchism? depressing
Whenever I use the term, it's usually aimed at those on the Right and Centre Right. Anyone who knows the first thing about New Labour will appreciate that it and authoritarianism go together like horse and carriage.
libertarian socialism is an oxymoron, achieving true ownership over the means of production requires an extremely strong centralized state to withstand the countless brutal attacks that will be launched by reactionaries.
@@jarhead717 You could say the same about Capitalism. Since as economic (and hence social) inequality increases, then more and more resources will be required to enforce them.
I.e. what is happening now.
@@marktaylor6491 turns out you need a state no matter what
@@sketchiefello9002 A state for sure. But what kind of state?
@@marktaylor6491a socialist one, duh 🙄
as the anarchist in the walls, bed time is a detriment to our society. Staying up late getting high and eating cake is praxis
Based. Also the State is Counter-revolutionary
Well there is a bit of a problem I have with this in its definition. With my education having focused on political science with a particular interest in international relations, Totalitarianism and Authoritarianism share similar concepts but differ in a major way. Totalitarianism is specifically ideologically driven as opposed to Authoritarianism which isnt necessarily. The two are interchangeable because the vast majority of people have been taught that they are interchangable when they really arent. They dont mean the same thing at all but, as stated earlier, the vast majority of people are not politically engaged in that aspect and often dont have a clear understanding of the differences. So we havent moved on to a "new time period" where now it is "in" to use Authoritarianism rather than Totalitarianism. I cant emphasize this enough, those words are in no way the same and are only used interchangeably because people legitimately are unaware of what qualifies as either/or. However, it has been politically used specifically at communism as a way to demonize it and equate it with authoritarianism
Absolutely, they are not they same terms, totalitarianism is the idea that the state needs to own a person mind, body and soul, operating on their personal, professional, romantic and familiar life. There have been a couple Totalitarian state in history, Soviet (Especially Stalinist) Russia, Nazi Germany, Mao's China, and increasing modern day China. Totalitarianism operates like a cult in every single way. Every state that isn't a western democracy has been authoritarian, from Ancient and Medieval Rome, The Persian Empire, The Spanish Empire, The Aztec Empire, The Mongol Empire, The French and British Kingdoms, the list goes on and on. Even western democracies are authoritarian in nature like the USA and France. However Authoritarianism differs from Totalitarianism in that an Authoritarian simply wants you to shut up about the state and obey, and pay your god dam taxes.
@@Nic_Bloody1905 I have to disagree... even under totalitarian state like the USSR, there was a significant amount of personal freedom. Look no further than soviet films... they are widely regarded as a category of their own and produced some of the best films in history from some of the best directors, producers and so on. They were allowed artistically to do what they wanted because they werent bound to whether something would be profitable or not. There were also major achievments that outpaced the USA in terms of the sciences. The USSR wasnt this dystopia but it was ideologically driven. When assessing the economy it assessed it from an ideological standpoint, and so on.. Was there political suppression? yes... but that was suppression out of necessity. I dont necessarily agree with the USSR or modern China, but I certainly do not agree with the current neoliberal order. I have even argued that states like the US are contextually totalitarian in that the US is not specifically driven by and ideology in the same capacity as the USSR... however, if there is a genuine threat to its preffered ideological position (neoliberalism) then the US will 100% resort to totalitarian methods of suppression (i.e state violence on protestors, assasinations like Fred Hampton, and overall just destroying any movement that has serious momentum).... So the US will resort to suppression but it all depends on the context... I think also its important to read literature like "inventing reality" and "manufacturing consent" because they both dive into how the west engages in thought control and consent building... even if it isnt as explicit as the USSR, it is still there.
Yeah, I'm not to well versed in post Stalin History, however from my knowledge their was significant change from the totalitarian Stalin state to the more moderate authoritarian state of post 1955 Russia. However I would like to challenge your proposition that the USSR has had greater scientific achievements, as from my knowledge America and it's allies have done far more for science than the USSR did. (don't use the Space Race as an example as both were using stolen technology and Nazi scientists to achieve their goals) Your focus on the USA is interesting, however I believe it may blind you to other authoritarian states, but in general I believe that America is far closer to Authoritarianism then any other democracy.@@rcsverige
@@Nic_Bloody1905 sorry I havent responded for over a week. I have had a research proposal to suffer. Ill respond hopefully soon. Lol I looked at the notification and realized I never responded to you and felt like I should say something at the very least because it felt like a good and honest discussion.
second thoughts a tankie thats why hes getting the shit wrong
hes an apologist for stalin/lenninism@@Nic_Bloody1905
living in finland and watching this video made me realise how free i am
Authoritarianism is when the people lack agency. Whether that's because they're forced to work for property owners all day, or because their democracy is controlled by a single party that vets all the candidates and doesn't tolerate dissent.
Your comparisons kinda suck, secret police(Gestapo)=plain clothes cops, is a very strange way to talk about a secret police when you have the FBI right in front of you. Compare hundreds of gulags with 20 deportation centers where people just get deported as opposed to just disappearing people. Our prisons may be labor camps, but at least we don't have massive labor/concentration camps with clear satellite images of crematoriums for people for being Muslim like China’s Uygur camps. We may have Guantanamo, but compare the total number of prisoners with total Uygur prisoners and its kind of a joke. Also, we know for a fact that you can’t trust China’s stats about their country, so I would not take China’s police-citizen death data.
I’m not saying that the things America does are all great, but the comparisons here are just bad
"These inhumane means are necessary to reach our just ends."
Now where have I heard that logic before?
Speaking as a card carrying anarchist, I have to say that fucking dictator apologia by way of "the ends justify the means" sits pretty poorly with me. Among the many reasons for this is the fact that it these ends have evidently not been reached, considering we do not, in fact, live under socialism.
Not a GREAT defense against violations of human rights.
why are you more defensive of the "human rights violations" of fascists, counter revolutionaries, and regrouped capitalists than you are of the gains made in a revolution and post-revolution society? kinda telling is it not?
@@bothi00 we are the good people group, we can't be bad!!!!
@@spinosaurusstriker ? Care to develop?
@@bothi00Kinda telling that you sound like a facist talking
sorry buddy, you will NOT build your anarcho-aryan community
As someone on the left, this is something I have been coming to terms with this year. Previous years, I knew nothing about the history of China, the USSR, Cuba or Vietnam. Vietnam was the first one I learned about, but going through all of them, I learned more about the plight of people who lived there. And while I don't agree with everything these countries did, I am overall a lot more neutral about them because of the results they have achieved. I am also far more critical of my own countries history of colonialism and its failure to actually stand up against the US. I am also far more aware about the shortcomings of the supposed democracies in the West, and how you can't really have a democracy at all under capitalism. The idea of freedom is a complete farce, and the only way to seemingly achieve happiness is to accept the farce and to be willingly naïve.
Having gone through a bit of the same process, I wouldn't say so much that I think those countries are good so much as I also think that America is bad, though not to the same extent.
I have become comfortably numb.
@@alexanderboulton2123 you still have a lot to read then.
Because for us, people who are not from the West, it’s clear as air that that same West has done more atrocities than any other part of the world
@@alexanderboulton2123yeah you’re either biased or haven’t seen enough
@@alexanderboulton2123most of the shit you think about communism is likely a lie
Hey JT, you probably won’t see this but I’d love to see where the documentation of Chinese and Cuban democracy, because I currently don’t have anything to go off of to know for a fact that those states are actually democratic
Well it's simply because he doesn't have any sources to prove such a claim.
Cuba ain't bad or at least not compareable. china no JT is a china shill china is way worse they even stalk their people out side of the country if they say anything bad about the government its 100x worse than the US otherwise he would live there right? no he is a rich kid that owns fancy cars look it up
He's a tankie
@@sleepycowboy18 and you're a person who just unironically used that word. Your point?
@@sleepycowboy18 surprised pikachu face
Few criticisms:
1) taking China's official statistics on violence through police at face value might not be a good idea. Statistics are only as reliable as they are open to review and I doubt the CCP has any interest in there being any review of the sort. Also whenever there are protests in China, for example in Hong Kong, there are reports of massive police violence.
2) I would note that authoritarianism does have commonly accepted definition criteria among historians: an authoritian government is one with highly concentrated and centralised power; maintenance of this power by use of either overt or covert politiical repression or violence; exclusion of challengers to the power by use of force, be it political or violence. Some Western governments may fulfill the last criteria to a degree but they often don't fulfill the other ones fully.
3) there's a lot of talk about "infighting among the left" and while that may be a problem; there's also vast discrepancies of conception that CANNOT be looked over in the name of essentialism. You can not fight side by side by someone who denies your existence or says your struggles either don't matter or will magically disappear once capitalism is toppled (the latter we know isn't true by examining history when it comes to things like queerphobia, sexism, racism, antisemitism and the like). There's a lot of resistance to criticism regarding these issues and I'd daresay these criticisms are valid and a modern left should aim to reach as many people as possible and be inclusive, especially towards those marginalised and not kick them in the face as well.
4) Idk how representative the statement you made is regarding socialists / marxists / communists being critics of authoritarian socialist governments of the past (or supposed current ones) is. There's plenty of people who still revere Mao, Stalin, Lenin and figures of the like. People who defend Putin, the government nistof North Korea or China and paint their critics as purely fearmongering and anti-communist. And this handling of (often valid) criticsm is an issue that requires adressing.
Speaking from personal experience: I can't deal with a lot of self proclaimed leftist groups (here in Germany at least, I can't speak for the U.S., the U.K. or other countries besidey maybe France, Italy and Belgium) due to their inablity to deal with criticsm and concerns, especially when coming from marginalised people. We can disagree on many things in the fight for a better future and a world with less oppression, but not the (human) rights of those oppressed & marginalised (the most).
Your no 2) also leaves out a super critical piece: The marginalized groups and peoples often have/come from cultures where human flourishing occurs in the absence of capitalism or in other words, they have world views whether from historical stories and records, or actually partake in small scale communities that do not operate on capitalism principles (the indigenous peoples of the United States) that have alternative ways of living. I can sympathize with being a leftist in the UK and EU, it sounds like there is a lot of resistance to alternative ideas over there when it comes to living in a world post-capitalism, I don’t know if that could be just a historical thing and getting caught trapped in the history cycle. I’m in the states and have been super lucky to be around a bunch of different cultures and communities, especially the marginalized groups.
du absoluter liberaler vollidiot, "some people think lenin/mao/stalin were good" ja weil sie es waren? jesus christ deutsche "linke" in 2023… pure vaush ideologie, "alle sozialistischen länder und revolutionäre waren tatsache einfach nur nazis!! ich weiß es besser als die leute AUS diesem land! trust me guys they were just fascists"…
“Historically speaking socialists have been better at rehabilitation in prison”
?????? He doesn’t even expand on this. Just a statement and walks away.
The fact that dude has 1 mil subs is concerning. He straight up lies or omits information and has zero nuance.
He's actually right... regarding libertarian socialists like the CNT-FAI in revolutionary Catalonia, which authoritarians like him have historically betrayed.
JT has it good when it comes to pro-socialism and anti-capitalism. But falls a bit when it turns into "my country's worse than everyone else."
He doesn’t know about Gulag.
@@ZaoMedong- gulags were just prisons where inmates did labour. they got treatment for any medical issues that arose and a lot of people sent to them were normal criminals, like rapists and murderers.
@@peanutsveryepicchannel8699 They were work camps where prisoners were often worked to death. Many of the prisoners were there simply for criticising Stalin or the Soviet leadership.
Simping for a monstrous totalitarian regime is pretty pathetic.
For the record, Natalya Solzhenitsyn admitted in 1974 that her husband Alexander's famous book _Gulag Archipelago_ was made up. She specifically called it "folk lore". Alexander told Westerners what they wanted to hear so he could sell them a book. He was, after all, a fiction author by trade.
The same pressure to tell Westerners what they want to hear is present in those who "flee" socialist societies. Sure, some people left Cuba after the revolution because Castro took their slaves away. But most who leave are simply lured away from a society in which they have genuine rights and good living conditions by false promises of "freedom" and easy riches. And, once they get here, they don't make any friends at all by saying positive things about the socialist societies they left; Westerners who've been neck-deep in anticommunist propaganda from the day they're born simply wouldn't accept it.
They're all little Yeonmi Parks is what I'm saying. The only difference between her and the rest of them is that she's a little more creative and a little more audacious.
For the record, here's further context from her Washington Post obituary :
In 1970, the year he won the Nobel Prize, Solzhenitsyn learned that Natalya Svetlova, one of his volunteer typists, had become pregnant with their child. When he told Ms. Reshetovskaya, she is said to have considered suicide by throwing herself under a train like Anna Karenina, the Tolstoy heroine. She and Solzhenitsyn divorced a second time.
In 1973, Solzhenitsyn married Svetlova. In 1974, with the publication in the West of "The Gulag Archipelago," his masterful description of the Soviet camp system, he was forced into exile by the Soviet authorities.
Ms. Reshetovskaya reportedly was recruited by the KGB, the secret police, to try to dissuade Solzhenitsyn from allowing the book to appear.
@@BirchBarlow “masterful description”
Jesus Christ…
There’s also the fact that gulags predate the Soviet Union and that’s just what Russian labor prisons have always been
I don’t “condone large scale political imprisonment.” But much of what that is described in regards to “gulags” were western funded agitation groups, often far right nationalists, who tried to create revolutions in Ukraine and Belarus.
After Khrushchev was appointed, he appeasing the west and released almost 200K Ukrainian from gulags many of whom were Nazi collaborators and far right nationalist. But he did so at the expense of national security.
Khrushchev wanted to appear “tolerant” but when a Catholic-Nazi-CIA uprising in Hungary occurred, he late in the game sent in the tanks.
Any educated person who was knowledgeable of what really happened was labeled a “Tankie”.
But if the USA had a real Nazi uprising trying to overthrow the government, I have a bit more sympathy for the commie tanks than the Nazi.
Do you have a link for that so I can read and shit to other people
Some classic authotitarian language IMO and much of the epitome of what a politician easily says like with GWB saying "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists" and "we fight them over there so we don't have to face them here" among other political phrases to beat the drums for war.
Its not just GWB. George Orwell, 1942 'he that is not with me is against me'.
@@huginnOdinsson Yes. He was correct. The USSR is not infallible and free from all criticism.
Next video is going to be about how the Khmer Rouge were actually based.
you're turning this into a question of morality to distract from the point of the video that all countries should be held to the same standard. Calling America "kinda bad sometimes" and China "authoritarian" is not consistent and just exposes the bias of Americans who don't realize how propagandized they are and know nothing about the world around them. It was America who propped up the Khmer Rouge and it was America who destroyed that entire region to begin with. If China is authoritarian, than so is the country who has invaded hundreds of other countries for power and profit, tortures people and has access to all of their communication and spies on the entire world.
@thatonecommentthatageswell6814 that's a funny way to spell Mao Zedong
@@punbasedname9032 America bombed the entire region genocidally and started this mess and ignoring that is laughable. America also supported the Khmer Rouge as a means of dividing and conquering the people they were bombing. America also did a deal with China in 1972 which changed their entire relationship and that is also important context. The U.S. opened up trade with China, America also encouraged China to provide support to the Khmer Rouge.. Both of these things are true. America was the one with the power in this situation, they were the ones who destroyed and destabilized Cambodia and Vietnam, and they were the ones with the leverage over China economically to compel them to support the Khmer Rouge regime that they themselves supported. China was not the root cause of the devastation that befell that entire region, that root cause was spelled U S A
Next video of yours will act like every western country isn’t ten times worse than even the Khmer Rouge
Next video of yours will act like every western country isn’t ten times worse than even the Khmer Rouge
My favorite part of this was when he inadvertntly defended the Purges while trying very carefully to not discuss them, followed closely by saying 'secret police are necessary.'
yes definitely "inadvertently" not at all just using dogwhistles and intentionally spreading transparent propaganda to defend them
Did he really try not to discuss them? It seemed pretty clear that he argued revolution requires violence. Personally, I think it is possible to change the world without violence, but can we think of any example of that happening in the past?
@@NelsonGuedes The purges were well after the Soviet Union was created, hardly a 'revolution'. It's pretty clear he avoids talking about many things here such as Nazi Germany and it's similarities to the USSR and 'authoratariansm', the purges under Stalin, what Marx defined communism etc.. Second thought's videos are pretty good except when he talks about of socialism. (also the idea that plain-clothed officers are just like the Soviet's secret police who would spy on and execute political dissidents made me laugh 😭)
@crockubot418 if you look for CIA declassified documents online you might find out that the CIA tried to infiltrate the USSR for a decades. The USSR had to deal with spies and attempts at "regime change" just like every other government on the planet who refused to comply with the USA.
@crockubot418 you can't dupe people into believing that they live in a "free democracy" if you go around openly murdering every dissident, can you?
Socialism isn't authoritarian/totalitarian.
Communism isn't authoritarian/totalitarian.
Socialism nor communism are in China/North Korea.
As an anarchist, I can confirm I've been screaming THE STATEEE all the way through the video
should have screamed louder, there wasn't any real addressing of anarchist point of view at all. In fact, there was a lot of posturing and narrowly presenting a specific context, but like there's a world of difference between defending the revolution and giving centralized authority to one entity, whatever that entity may be, to act on behalf of X or commit violence cart blanche, in particular violence against individuals not engaged in counter revolution for whatever purposes. This was a video about defending means and not about the organization of a society with respect to a level of centralized authority. Authority can exist without a state, which is centralized and codified authority. Anarchism, broadly speaking, serves to remove that centralized authority and hierarchy in general whenever it can't be justified (see for example how anarchist units in Spanish civil war were organized) but with that comes the responsibility of individuals everywhere to be more engaged locally and interlocally. By giving up that responsibility for convivence we enable the state to broadly act in horrific ways without our consent. We don't need to do that "to defend the revolution"
Feel free to keep screaming.
@@mackone8035 We will, thanks
As an Anarchist you'll never be a representative of the lowest sections of society. Anarchism suffers from Europeanist and Euro-Centric Analysis and Tendencies. Anarchism for anybody of color or in the Third-World can only represent Infantile Leftism. Anarchism will never lead people of Color towards their emancipation.
For all the whining about raging against authority based on your liberal conceptions of past AES, I never see any anarchists having successful revolutions. I wonder why that is, hmm? Almost as if Engels predicted the failure of anarchism centuries ago.
Lol what propaganda.. lets talk about what happened in gulags and why people got sent there vs what happens in us prisons and why people get sent there.. not that the drug war etc is good but the comparison is just totally blind
You said let’s talk but then didn’t say anything
@@logans3365Great rebuttal, love the specifics you bring up.
@@Betelgeuse2142what? Generalisation? In a left comment section. It’s like if you are actually an idealist.
It’s a shame how this channel and the podcast along with it has gone down the shitter
Nah
I'm Australian, but I very much enjoy and appreciate your education work. America has been in need of a revolution now more than ever.
I totally agree, but not an Authoritarian one
Australia needs a revolution too
We need one too
Preferably not by the likes of Second thought, he is a full on tank, he will support any grotesque act of oppression as long as it is vaguely anti-US.
@@hipgnosis533 15:20 bruh.
The alternative to such "authoritarian" measures for Revolution is to restrict ourselves to a more local focus of Autonomy. Anarchists have a storied history of uprisings as well, but our history is buried rather than demonized.
B-b-but Engels said anti-authorianism in the Left only ever serves the Reactionaries!
Well, demonized by the people who agree with anarchists the most, and buried by the people who just think anarchy means no rules.
And as an anarchist, I say there's no reason why you must be authoritarian to convince people to want to defend themselves. If something is truly in people's interest then just present your argument and people will choose the right option far far more often than any 'leader' possibly could themselves.
Removing that from people is nothing but a forfeit of intent for negotiation and the pretext for subversion. "My way or the highway."
It is burried because none of them were successful long-term or ever reached a large scale.
@@KekusMagnusAnd they were unsuccessful because they were suppressed and massacred by vanguard communists as well as capitalists. Which is why our history gets buried. Most leftists of an authoritarian leaning don't like being reminded of that.
Also, "reaching a large scale" is kind of counter to the point of anarchism, innit. Small-scale local autonomous collectives collaborating with other small-scale local autonomous collectives is a better way to organize a society than the "vanity of nations" enforced by violent repression. It should evolve and spread organically, through general strikes, the founding of mutual aid societies, and grass-roots organizing; not top-down revolution and cults of personality.
Doesn't work
i love me some whataboutism
My heart missed a bit when JT started with "have these gentlemen ever seen .." lol
Heyo fellow western leftist here,
I don't think the anarchist critique on authority is about letting capitalists get back their stuff. The critique is more about authority over people who don't want to establish authority and build vertical systems or even just want to live their life without strictly enforced rules that are purely created for keeping the authority in place or/and extending it.
But there's going to be people who want capitalism in whatever sort of Revolt you partake in. You are eventually going to squash reactionaries
Second Thought is not a leftist, he's a fascist
@@adriadelafuente3648 Equity does not demand equal outcomes, what are you on about
I'd like to see you discuss the Uighur re-education camps in China.
"I think that the Uyghurs are just Anti-Revolutionaries that want to dismantle China's system of hope and opportunity, separate from the US;" is probably similar to what he would say
He denies the existence
@@forkii4122 or that
@@forkii4122imo I think the camps are most likely real but china is such a powerful country that generally keeps things under wraps.
Unlike the west.
So we may never now the full scope of the Muslims there
@@forkii4122well never know how bad it is.
It could be anything from , segregation legal inequality with camps created to break potential rebellion to straight up just putting them in a camp.
Idk
I'd say "authoritarian" is more useful for describing mindsets than systems.
A person or organization who/which resorts to authoritarian measures as a first resort, preferring them over (viable) alternatives, is authoritarian. And that's a perfectly valid criticism.
like china
@@jacksmith-vs4ct Sure, like the Chinese government's mindset, for example.
I can see a mindset that thinks they must ensure everyone is worrying about China.
@HeadsFullOfEyeballs every government is authoritarian to some extent. Authorities are authoritarian no matter what.
@@jacksmith-vs4ct like USA
Its sad, youtube does not allow to see the thumbs downs. Where is the transparency?
There’s an extension IIRC. But anyway, this video obviously has >98% thumbs up! All our comrades are satisfied with this video and the amazingly sourced information.
@@Phazz88 yeah, i totally agree with that video too! I was just complaining about YT.
Thanks for the info! I'll try that IIRC extension.
Cartman be like "Respect my authorita...rianism."
"And this is extremely dangerous to our democracy" . It seems the same script has been passed on from one media house into another 😂😂😂😂😂😂
This commentary was one of the most absurd collection of strawmen that I have ever seen. The issue with authoritarianism is not that "a government exists" but that (1) the government is not accountable to the population in any meaningful way and (2) if the government decides to target someone, that person really has no recourse. The issue with the gulag or the laogai is not the number of people inside of them, but how arbitrarily people were sent to them, the degree of inhuman labor required in them, and the inability to get a lawyer to object to your conditions and find redress. With surveillance, the issue is not about how easily your information can be accessed by a government official but whether you live with the fear that if a government official sees that information that such a person would be motivated to arrest you for it. The list of these goes on and on.
The whole point of the video and the article from Engels is not that we should use wanton force and coersion, but that every struggel that wants to impose a new set of thinking and a mode of production and distribution, as well as every time you want to change a persons perspective, it is inhearently an act of authority. Even when done through the means of a empathetic, civil argument. Systems of oppression and the neoliberal ideology that supports them, keep people from recognising the contradictions inside of the systems. It bars them from the tools to critise their condition, prevents people from being open to leftist arguments and violently moves against them if they act in even the smallest meaningful ways. Changing some ones mind, even if it is for a better, more inclusive future that actually can lift all people out of poverty, is still imposing 'your' ideology on them. I put 'your' in quotes, because it is not just about what I or any comarde finds pleasurable but because we are supported by a vast amount of critique of the current system that may not indicate the perfect future, but sure as death makes the present out to be unsustainable. It makes the current system out to be forcefully exclusionary with no inherent means to end the destitution of the masses.
Authority is not a bad word, but made out to be one by morally connoting it with other morally judged systems. But morality is not to be trustet. It removes historicy, reason and material outcomes for a quick emotionally charged verdict. This, we need to overcome.
@@hgfulminat3040 "Even when done through the means of a empathetic, civil argument."
I: Now that's stretching the definition of authority so thin it becomes meaningless
@@hgfulminat3040 I couldn't disagree more. The type of authority that exists is pivotal concerning whether people can become aware of their failures within the system. There is a reason why populist movements, for example, develop in neoliberal representational democracies but don't develop in places with highly-centralized governments (be they fascist, communist, or militarist) -- populism (a common class consciousness of the lower and middle classes -- just not one along communist lines) can only work if the common people have a way of communicating with each other that the government does not meaningfully obstruct. Do you believe that the population of China, a population living in what is nominally a Communist state, are closer to living under the ideals of Marx and Engels are than the population of Denmark, a population living in what is nominally a capitalist monarchy? In one of these places, labor unions, welfare, class consciousness, etc. exist and in the other, they don't. The type of authority -- as vested in what people are permitted to say, think, and organize themselves to do without government interference and with the ability to redress negative government interference, to the extent it arises -- makes a crucial difference.
The government literally cannot be held accountable to people if it is to function. That's the nature of monopoly of force - force is the only thing that actually matters, and unless you happen to live several centuries ago (or maybe in a country with total conscription), regular people aren't in a position to enact force upon a government.
This is one of the reasons people are becoming more polarised. Because the only way to resolve this is to go 'so therefore we shouldn't have government' or 'so therefore if we have the RIGHT government we need to let them have that monopoly'.
@@legateelizabeth I: If a structure, by design, cannot be held accountable, we need to build a different structure that can be
Self-defense is not an act of authority, it is an act of resistance against someone trying to impose their authority on you. A revolution is not inherently an act of authority, and neither is fighting to defend the revolution.
Engels' essay is pretty bad in many ways. I recommend it very much as an exercise in critical thinking.
@@hamzahnurreez8420source?
I've always thought of authoritarianism as being when a party or leader in charge will not let the people vote and/or will use force to stamp down any and all political opposition and that does encompass many so-called democracies. Even if I accept that at first a revolution would necessitate authoritarian means to survive, establish socialism, and defend itself from reactionaries, how long would it stay in power? Because what history seems to tell me is that the answer to that is "indefinitely". And I'm not sure I like that. (Then again, is it much different to the false choice between more capitalism and slightly less capitalism that modern democracies devolve into?)
This guy has been entirely taken over by America bad mentality, rather than a principled defense of socialism. Things he brings up that are truly horrible in America, he glosses over or defends in other nations. If a socialist calls for gay people to be kicked out because it's "evil western influence", he would probably defend it since he doesn't believe we can judge
it's important to remember too that every single one of these authoritarian parties ended up betraying the revolution (or if you want to coddle them, "being infiltrated by revisionists") and ended up being filled with oligarchs which defended their own interests and eventually the bourgeoisie's after a while, from there to think that it's not "despite" the authoritarian measures but *because* of them that it happened...
Fuck that definition. I live in Belarus. I can vote all day long but noone will give a shit about my vote.
@@ImpreccablePony yeah, voting and electoral politics are often used to hide (or maintain plausible deniability) authoritarianism instead of as a way to actually take people's opinions into account
@@ImpreccablePony right, that's a good point. I should have clarified that I meant actual, binding elections. Sham elections are super common in authoritarian regimes.
I hereby petition the council that any time that JT makes a pun or otherwise makes a dad joke, he's to leave the room for the rest of the video and a sock puppet take his place. I recommend Warmbo, I'm sure Cody would be happy to take a vacation from the guy from time to time XD
Oh god you want Warmbo to SPREAD?
😂
@@indigopinesall must bow down to the almighty Warmbo!
@@indigopines cornnnn creaaam
i do not support this motion
he literally would've had to leave before he was on screen on this one lol
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Lmao what is this bot shit?
I don't know how I got here. I'm lost. Why are all these comments role-playing an MLM
Tankie is not a derogatory word for a communists. Tankie is a deragatory word for a right -wing fascist, pretending to be communist, using left wing aesthetics as a cover. This word originates from leftists, and right-wing opposition rarely (if ever) use it. Usually occusation of being tankie goes from another left-wing actors, in case if you do some sussy-wussy stuff. Like taking word authoritarianism in quotes, or calling camps "not ideal".
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER
What's the difference with a right wing fascist who thinks communism is cool and a left wing fascist?
The fact that the word "tankie", defined as you did, is only used in the US and the first world, places that never had popular and successful socialist movements in recent history (or ever, for that matter), tells all you need to know about the term and the people who use it
@@FriedHeggis you do not use word tankie outside of first world countries coz if you do and imply your government run by tankies, you can be in trouble.
Currently there is no socialist countries in the world. All of them a tyrannical to a various degree, and true socialist society can't be tyrannycal by design. And this is why videos like this exists - to convince you otherwise.
@@FriedHeggis It's used to describe bootlickers who are fine with dictatorships that pretend to be socialist. The fact that you and the "communist" who reviews supercars are offended when you're called out tells everyone what we need to know about anyone who tries to "ACKCHUALLY" at anyone who says that word.
Love it when second thought drops
an interesting wrinkle is ive been hanging out in cult recovery spaces recently and "authoritarian" and even "totalitarian" are used to actual great descriptive effect to explain the experiences and how they operate, but i think this also lays bare why its used also as a political propaganda tool: it invokes and accuses any kind of government that doesn't empower the bourgeois at the working class' expense as basically being the same as a high control group/cult
Or maybe it could be the strong man leaders who tend to pop up in those countries.
It often feels like MLs think the only way the workers can be in charge is in they have a dictator
@@hipgnosis533you could have just said "i dont know what marxism leninism is"
@@hipgnosis533 you could have just said i am in incurious child and don't know what dictatorship of the proletariat means
@@toxicfem69You could have just said "I have never actually read Marx or Lenin and don't know what a Vanguard Party is." A shame no vanguard party has ever relinquished power once it has established itself.
Capitalism itself is a high-control group, and cannot exist without that stranglehold on power.
Love your videos JT, but you're way off on China. I live there and have lived in various parts for over three years. It isn't just a surveillance state (with cameras literally everywhere...in the trees in parks) but it's a surveillance society; the people spy on each other and will report on you. As such, the sense of repression is omnipresent. You also left out the Uyghurs and their systematic oppression by the Chinese government...seems like an important topic if we're gonna have a serious discussion about authoritarianism and a police state. I got no problem criticizing the USA...it's a terrible place, a literal neoliberal hellhole. But glossing over and/or ignoring issues in more "leftist" governments is not going to win converts.
This guy is retweeting people finding rational in the Holocaust, he's certainly not interesting in good faith interpretations.
Not only that but Chinese citizens can only vote in local elections. State/province and national elections are decided by the Chinese Communist Party. It's an election of Party bureaucrat aristocrats, not the proletariat. No one in China voted for Ji Xinping as the President of China. The CCP Party elected their Chinese Caesar.
To put this into an American perspective, imagine if the only political party in the USA were the Republicans and the State Governors and the President were chosen not by the people but by the RNC. Thats how it is in China.
Unfortunately I think that's the point.
Defending the indefensible
Unfortunately I think that's the point.
China had many islamic terrorist attacks from Uyghers up until 2017, when their reducation program began. Since then, there have been 0 islamic terror attacks. It sounds to me like what they did absolutely worked.
As a European democratic socialist, not comfortable with the historical and political liberties you’re taking regarding the comparison between socialist states and liberal ones. Saying « The strongman Stalin was a myth » or « Cuba and China have more democratic opportunities for people » seems bizarre if not outright falsehoods.
One thing that really astonished me when I took a few trips round China (alone, using only public transport - no guides) was seeing market traders arguing with cops. And I mean full-on, teeth bared, raised voices, arm-waving arguments. Taxi drivers too! Usually the traders had to pack away their unlicensed stalls, and walked away muttering. Taxis just drove off. No arrests.
If that happened here in the UK, they would be arrested. If it happened in the USA... well, I think we know what might happen.
I'm sure there are plenty of confirmed ways in which China is horrible - I'm not trying to claim they are angels - but these anecdotal memories seemed relevant to the matter.
That's because the vast majority of these police are "People's Police," who deal with small issues of theft, public disturbance, etc. They do not carry guns, they are public servants there to help people and maintain general peace. They'll point you to the right routes, find lost kids for parents, walk you to a safe place if you feel some weirdo is following you. China does have gun-carrying police as well: the specialist task forces, their version of SWAT, etc. But they're only sent out for special situations; the great majority of the police on the streets are there to help; and people feel very close to them.
china is so authoritarian for not arming their police with weapons to kill people and for having their police nit be corrupt and stuff, unlike the freedom land usa.
This was almost a great comment, but you just couldn't resist throwing China under the bus right at the end (based on mere suspicion alone, seemingly). 🤦♀
@@Dorian_sapiensNo government closet is clean of skeletons. An inherent suspicion of those in authority is healthy
@@Dorian_sapiens
All countries are horrible in some way or other - especially old colonialist countries like my own, the UK.
I mentioned it to be fair - I actually like China a lot - I've travelled all over the country, and can get by in Mandarin. I hope you can say the same, because direct experience is important.
I'll repeat, they are no angels, but from what I've seen - with my own eyes, I should add, they are a lot better that countries that hold themselves to be the world's policeman (the States, and the West generally).
I think they are doing a bloody good job, but anyone will get attacked in the comments if they pretend they are perfect.
You don't need to be so defensive - we are probably close to being on the same side. But China can look after itself! ;-)