I honor the courageous people here who have experienced betrayal by a therapist and somehow gathered the fortitude to keep looking for the right help, and didn't give up when they were most vulnerable. I think of the inner work they must have already done by themselves to be able to take on this agonizing situation.
We get piled up because our minds are filled with thinking. We have forgotten that there is Observation before Thinking. It is not necessary to get weary, senile, and piled up. As a matter of fact, we can flower as we grow.
One of the mistakes I seem to make time and time again is to not only confide in the wrong person, but to overshare, often resulting in further humiliation and harm later down the line.
me too over n over n over again. I din’t ‘know 🤷🏻♂️. ppl aren’t quite what they seem or what they say. But id never think that id be judged for something ‘I didn’t ‘do or had no control over. Strangest thing in the world. Sick. Projection. Transference.
I have this dilemma of not knowing what to say in the moment I am asked “How are you?” Most of the time I resort to good if I don’t have the mental energy to think about it, but when I do it’s like Hm what should I say, how specific should I be, and what do I think about this person’s ability to understand.
I just saw a therapist not that long ago and I left in the middle of the session because he claimed he was a “tough love therapist”. Nope! He is in that profession so he can bully people when they are in vulnerable states. Disgusting!
You can’t confide in everyone. Choose someone who you can trust. Someone who is mentally well-balanced, open-minded, self-reflective and understanding. Someone who has empathy. So that they don’t just shun you away or dismiss your feelings, as though you don’t deserve to be listened to or understood.
@@cricketycrickets3141 But remember that evil people, despite not talking to one another, share a common goal. so they give off the illusion of being a team.
A lesson I learnt the hard way recently: just because someone seems nice, and shows interest in how you’re feeling, maybe even is publicly seen as a caring person, doesn’t mean they’re healthy enough to be a safe person to confide in. Recently, I had such an event where I confided in someone after being discriminated against for having disorders, this person had asked me how I felt about the situation, and once I told her I was questioning the values of the place we had been working together in and the people who made the discriminatory decision, she told me I was playing “victim”.
Absurd, harmful statement, nothing about questioning the behaviour of the organisation indicates you identifying yourself as a victim. Absurd, absurd- to investigate the actions of the organisation and to surmise whether they were potentially harmful is not playing the victim. Absurd Absurd Absurd- saying "that hurt" and being affected by that pain and needing time to recover and wanting to express that pain is not playing the victim. I hope you stop interacting with that person!
I was conditioned at a very young age tell my parents everything .... When I found out that they were covert narc's I told them nothing .... worked out much better that way ,,
I wish I could confide in you, Daniel. I don't think I can trust anyone around me to help me, let alone heal me. I have lost all faith in humanity. In fact, those who I thought I could trust (eg. psychiatrists, some therapists, the system) have harmed me tremendously. I don't think I can heal within the system I am in.
OMG same. I'm looking for another care providers, other professionals to help me to heal from the crude violence I endured with a therapist and a psychiatrist at some extent who were supposed to help me to heal from a sexual trauma resurgence of symptoms
They didn't take advantage of or betray you, they just didn't care. They weren't preying on you for their own gain, they just didn't know how to help or didn't want to. That's only a betrayal if there is an expectation of reciprocal care.
This is a good point. It’s possible that the 12 year old was just trying to relieve his own discomfort at seeing little Dan crying. In that sense, he wasn’t being malicious. But personally, I do think this counts as taking advantage of someone, even if that is not the intent. It’s still using someone’s vulnerability for your own selfish purposes. As human beings, we understand intuitively that sharing our pain with others is risky and scary. It’s only appropriate for our deepest, safest relationships. So when you invite someone in pain to tell you something personal, there’s an unspoken understanding that you’re willing to engage in a relationship with them - otherwise, what business do you have inviting them to be so vulnerable with you? Ignoring someone point-blank after a heartfelt confession _is_ a betrayal. Of course, as we grow wiser, as Dan did that day, we realize that not everyone operates on this humane and compassionate level. People that are immature and not in touch with their own vulnerability are completely oblivious to the hurt they cause when they do this. They can say, “Well, I never said I was gonna be your friend or anything. I just gave you the chance to bare your soul to me, and you did. That’s totally on you and I take no responsibility. See ya!” There’s no way this 12 year old had the self-awareness to realize what he was doing, so I wouldn’t exactly blame him, but he still did something pretty awful in my book. The only question is whether he ever realizes it or not.
@@Meowch3 Quote: "for your own selfish purposes" This is what rings so out of tune for me. Everything about the story makes it clear that the kid was uncomfortable the whole time. His discomfort caused him to be open to receive the vulnerability and also to be aversive to another situation that would similarly leave him exposed to more discomfort. The other boy's drive was to minimize discomfort the whole time and never wavered. I am in complete agreement with you that good, compassionate, well adjusted-people should behave better, but I strongly disagree that there is some de facto level of responsibility that any person OWES another. If, as you say, the other boy was trying to exploit Dan's vulnerability he could have very easily teased him or used him as a social pariah for his own social gain but didn't exploit him in any way. Ultimately my greatest fear is that it is just extremely tempting to shift responsibility for our own suffering onto others, but it only seems to disempower us. I think we should all strive to meet your ideal of compassion, but we cannot ever weild another person's failure to meet that standard as an excuse to put blame on them for something that happened to them every bit as much as it happened to you. The reason the boy became aversive is because he was uncomfortable with what happened to him. He has every bit as much right to protect himself from that discomfort as you do to expect some level of reciprocity for your vulnerability, which is to say none at all. There are so many wonderful lessons to learn in this about inviting and connecting with people and reducing such a difficult situation to assigning blame to others is anathema to that value.
@@NoPodcastsHere I understand where you’re coming from. I guess I do believe there is a de facto level of responsibility we owe people. I believe everyone is owed a basic level of respect. If we don't believe people owe us at least this much, then it becomes very difficult to navigate the world and discern the safe people from the unsafe ones. In my opinion, little Dan's only mistake was assuming that all people who pretend to have good intentions are actually good. It would've served him well to remember that not everyone has our best interests in mind, and that it's entirely up to us to judge others' intentions carefully and protect ourselves. But he did learn this afterwards. Do we only have ourselves to blame when things go south? In practice I do wholeheartedly agree with that. It IS counterproductive and disempowering to blame others...but at the same time, pretending they did nothing wrong at all just doesn't sit well with me. You're right that the boy never owed Dan friendship, even if he created that expectation. I think what I have an issue with is the unacceptable silent treatment he gave Dan afterwards. The boy's discomfort was valid and I am all for him respecting his own needs and feelings, but no matter how uncomfortable you are, I don't think it's ever justification to treat someone so poorly. There are perfectly respectable ways to advocate for your own needs. If he was uncomfortable hanging out with Dan, he should’ve at least confronted him and said something like, "Hey, Dan. I'm sorry but we can't hang out. We can't be friends. But I hope you feel better about your dad and grandma. I promise I'll keep what you told me a secret forever, OK? It's safe with me. Goodbye." This would’ve still hurt, but the point is not to prevent others from suffering. It's just to do the decent and right thing. _He owed it to Dan to at least clear up the misunderstanding that HE created._ I believe it was selfish of him not to, no matter how uncomfortable he was. Ultimately, I just think it’s important to recognize when someone has wronged you instead of excusing their behavior by saying they had no responsibility toward you in the first place. They did, they just refused to take it. A decent human being would've done so. We can acknowledge that someone hurt us, did us wrong, and should’ve known better, while admitting that we too should've known better so we can take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. In essence I think that I am not really disagreeing with you, just taking it one step further by holding the boy accountable for his actions by clearly judging what he did as "wrong." He treated Dan badly and failed to follow through respectfully with what he started. I think he did owe this much to Dan.
@@Meowch3 I think we are mostly in agreement, but you still state over and over that this boy acted in some way towards Dan, whereas I see him as almost entirely passive throughout the story merely reacting to mature things happening that he didnt understand, and he tried to do the right thing but ultimately got overwhelmed and just tried to avoid the discomfort. I love the example you gave of what the other boy could have said to Dan, and I think we should be modeling these interactions as adults so that children can learn how to connect like that when uncomfortable, but I am just at a complete loss as to what is gained by blaming a kid who may have missed the mark but was basically trying his best and got in over his head. You said: "If we don't believe people owe us at least this much, then it becomes very difficult to navigate the world and discern the safe people from the unsafe ones." But while I can appreciate the logic I think this is exactly backwards, assuming that everyone has our interests at heart and acting and expecting people to care for us just sets us up for failure and hurt. Obviously we'd all like that world, but if you're interested in a kids wellbeing you can't teach them to expect respect from others and to be hurt when they don't receive it. I would give a counterpoint to your suggestion of what the other boy could have said, since Dan was the one aggrieved, if I was their teacher/guardian I would have have Dan initiate the contact and express his hurt to the other boy with something like: "Hey, I'm sorry if I vented to you inappropriately earlier. I understand if you don't want to hang out but I was hoping that you'll keep what I told you a secret, OK? Thank you." I don't think either boy has any obligation per se to reconcile, but if either does it certainly seems to me it would be Dan who has something to say to the other. The other boy didnt cause the situation or the discomfort, he is as much a victim of the circumstances as dan is, just because Dan may be a greater victim in a different context doesn't factor at all into what is owed between the boys. Neither boy is at 'fault' because it is happening to both of them, but likewise neither boy is responsible per se for the accidental hurt caused by Dan opening himself to someone who wasnt available to receive him. It's an unfortunate situation, no doubt but as openminded as I am to hear counterargument, I am utterly convinced for now that the only good solutions to situations like these involve maximizing the number of people who voluntarily choose to take responsibility for others, and that real solutions can never truly come from assigning responsibility to someone else other than one's self. It doesn't mean to condone or even accept the bad behavior, it just means that if you decide that their behavior needs to change that you are ultimately the one responsible for changing their behavior, as trying to convince someone that they are responsible for changing themselves for you is an exercise in futility, even if that change is a righteous or necessary one.
@@NoPodcastsHere It seems I wasn't clear. I agree there is a time and place for compassion. I can put myself in the boy’s shoes and understand that he might not have intended to cause harm, and that he might have wanted to do the right thing but got overwhelmed. And he’s only 12 to boot, so he probably had no idea what he was doing. But - and this is a big but - abuse is abuse. Bad treatment is bad treatment. If I were a bystander child looking at this, I would have compassion for the boy but also recognize that he did the wrong thing by ignoring Dan. No matter how much I could understand him, I would be rightfully weary of getting involved with this boy myself and would probably avoid him if I could help it. Recognizing wrongdoing and having compassion for someone are not mutually exclusive. If you’re in a romantic relationship and your partner yells and screams at you in anger because you accidentally dropped his expensive laptop, it doesn’t matter how right he is to be furious - yelling and screaming are bad behaviors that have no place in a relationship, ever. But you’ll find _plenty_ of people in the world who don’t think so and put up with it. MY fear is that someone who subscribes to your philosophy will end up like those people. They let their compassion get in the way of clearly judging behaviors as “wrong” and “unacceptable,” especially when it comes to the people they love, and consequently fail to extricate themselves from abusive relationships. This is what having boundaries is all about and is why having a moral philosophy is crucial to protecting yourself from unsafe people. It’s the idea that there are certain things you just don’t do, no matter how you’re feeling. Yes, this is a mere 12 year old boy. He deserves compassion. I’m not in favor of throwing rocks at him and kicking him. I’m simply using an internal moral philosophy to judge him and his actions. I can still appreciate his struggles. As an extreme example, I can judge and have compassion for a raging murderer too. If I read the story of his childhood and learn why he ended up killing someone in anger, I would be able to understand why he did it and even sympathize with him. But he still killed someone, and that is wrong, no matter how you slice it (assuming it’s not in self-defense). That doesn’t mean I’m in favor of punishing him. Maybe I think he deserves to be rehabilitated so he gets another chance at life. The advantage to knowing that he did something wrong is not to judge him for the sake of judging, or to administer punishment, or to demand that he change. The advantage is that I know to stay far the hell away from him because he’s bad news. The people who can’t make this kind of hard judgment write him love letters in jail instead (it really does happen.) “assuming that everyone has our interests at heart and acting and expecting people to care for us just sets us up for failure and hurt” No, no, I said that this is exactly what we SHOULDN’T do. In no way would I EVER encourage anyone to assume the world has their best interests at heart. That is extremely dangerous. When I say people owe us a basic level of respect, I am again making a moral judgment. Good people, the people we want in our lives and want to associate with, will do this, and bad people, people we’d rather stay away from, will not. The point is that we have a standard for how people SHOULD behave. It is against this standard that we judge others and decide whether they should stay in our lives or not. “I don't think either boy has any obligation per se to reconcile, but if either does it certainly seems to me it would be Dan who has something to say to the other. The other boy didnt cause the situation or the discomfort, he is as much a victim of the circumstances as dan is.” This is where we’ll just have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, the boy has the obligation to reconcile because he is the one who went to Dan, who was vulnerable and not in the best headspace to make great decisions, and encouraged him to spill his troubles. He then treated Dan badly by giving him the silent treatment. This is one of those things you don’t do to another no matter how you’re feeling. If I had a child, I would hope she’d look at that and think, “Huh, this guy isn’t someone I want to hang around with. Can’t believe he just ignored someone like that. He has his reasons, I'm sure, but it's still wrong to treat people that way. If he’s comfortable doing this wrong thing, who knows what other wrong things he’s fine doing. I'm sure he's just doing his best, but for my own sake, I'd better stay away or at least be cautious around him." As you can see, this is _all about_ assigning responsibility to yourself. I don’t even believe it’s ever your responsibility to change someone’s behavior; there is no need if you don’t want to, just show them the door. You are only ever in charge of yourself. Hopefully you hold yourself to a certain standard. I am just saying, it’s better if you hold others to that standard as well, so that YOU can take charge of your own life and decide whether this person deserves a spot in it or not.
Today, I wanted to send a message to someone but my inner voice said to me that it was not a good idea. I should talk to my self first, feel what's happening and then wonder again: is it safe for me to Open about My feelings with this person? The answer was no. Thank you for talk about this topic ❤
Actually that first story was far less bad than I expected - I was expecting the boy was going to tell all his friends and laugh or use it against you in some way, I guess it wasn't what you wanted or needed but I think being caring is not the same as being best friends
yeah a sense of impending doom was ahead at the start of this story, that was half decent the way it turned out, anyway it's understandable from a loner and outcast viewpoint how he felt at the moment, this glimpse of really finding someone to throw you a line and pull you from this loneliness and stuff and finding out that actually there was no line and you are once again astray on your own
Daniel projected and still projects his needs onto that kid and was wounded when he didn't fill them. The kid had no obligation to do anything. His actions were kind and compassionate but Daniel can't see this because of still unintegrated trauma. This was clear when he deemed the other child a "dishonest and uncaring" when he didn't meet the needs that were Daniels parents responsibility to fill. He even says that he felt "used and betrayed, kinda like he did with his family" If you see this Daniel, I'd love to hear your current perspective on this.
Think of that boy like a first responder. When you are the first at an accident you help of course. But you wouldn't feel obligated to help them with their other problems. I think that boy didn't want to use you. He just recognized how desperate you were and reacted. That doesn't mean he gave you a contract to become your friend. Should he just have passed you and let you sob alone, so you don't feel used?
I appreciate your perspective. Like Daniel, I have placed unrealistic expectations on others. There's such a big void and ultimately wound from not being seen and heard as children that one goes through life looking and expecting others to fill those unmet needs from childhood when that's not possible today. Idealization of others; it's a coping mechanism. Just bc we're conditioned to be caretakers does not mean others are as well.
I thought the same thing. That boy did nothing wrong. Just because you lend an ear to someone who is deeply upset in one moment, doesn't mean you have to become friends with them the next day or at all.
Like Daniel says himself, he's still a work in process. This is clearly just unintegrated trauma left living in his memory. The boy was compassionate and acted wisely. Daniel read into this because of his unmet need for connection and was wounded when those needs weren't filled. Totally understand this from children, but was a bit surprised to see that it's something Daniel still does not see (and blames the boy for being dishonest and uncaring).
I think I disagree with just one thing you spoke about here Daniel. I think the 12 year old boy who listened to your troubles and your pain wasn't necessarily doing it for power. Had he done that, he probably would've used it against you at some point inevitably. Instead, I think he was just a 12 year old boy who didn't know how to go about that sort of situation. Maybe he didn't want to risk his status by letting you sit with his lunch table, and maybe he didn't want to mess up somehow and hurt you (which in turn would've given him great shame) so he ignored you the next day. This is how I saw it anyways, I'm not the one who experienced those events so I'm happy to be wrong. That was just my interpretation.
When I first attempted psychotherapy, I got so hurt because I just assumed that the person I had the appointment with was my therapist. But as it turned out after I had confided in him, he was just evaluating me and then wanting to send me off to someone else! I was so heartbroken I didn't start therapy with the therapist I was assigned to. I tried a few more times for therapy later, but it never really worked. Even though I think some of them genuinely cared, I wasn't able to give them a chance full heartedly. I never felt safe being someone's job after my initial experience. I prefer building stable friendships.
Breaking away from a toxic relationship recently I discovered that most people can't really understand and can't support in a healthy way. The only ones that did, were those few that have gone through the same thing themselves.
I'm in my 30's and I have no one to confide in and I have no idea how to find them without subjecting myself to abuse from people who not only do not care about me, but who project all their insecurities and resentments onto me for superficial reasons over which I have no control at all.
Learning discretion about who to share with and who not to share with is a tricky one. Another beautiful pearl of wisdom, Daniel. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and experiences with us. Thank you for showing us that we’re not alone.
This resonated with me so much and reminded me of the times where I had chosen to confide in certain people and felt regret some time later if not immediately. And even an experience with a therapist who sounded rather bored and mechanical, making it feel obvious that this was someone who I was paid to talk to and didn't actually care about me. I don't want to jinx this but I've had the chance to meet a friend who has been such a safe person to share things to and it made the world of a difference. Please choose who you share things to!
This brought up a lot of emotion for me. My mother was a narcissistic counselor who in my childhood used me as a surrogate spouse. She force counseled me to "bare all", week after week, implying the relationship would be over if I didn't show her the trust and love she deserved as my mom. I only recently realised how dissociated I've been, that the way I learned to talk about emotions was from that split place, like my emotions were behind a thick glass wall. I could describe them for people and counselors without even a little bit showing in my body or voice. I wonder how many other people who were harmed even somewhat by a therapeutic relationship can relate. When the sacredness of real vulnerability is violated again and again, it's almost natural to split. I'm still learning to reconnect thoughts, body, breath, voice, and words. Journaling was recommended by my mother as healing even back then (which she read), so even that has been a reinforcing of that dissociation at times, though not always. I relate to someone else's comment amount their dog. I have an absolutely wonderful cat. I just got up from an hour long cat hug, feeling that yes he wants me to feel and be fully me just as I want him to be fully him. He follows me on walks. It's wonderful in that it's so body focused.
I kinda relate. I went to residential treatment places (that sucked big time) and they kept pushing mindfulness and body scans and all that and now I still find that stuff unhelpful and upsetting. It has to be a wildly different kind or technique for it to be calming in any way.
People can only meet us as deeply as they’ve met themselves. If they lack consciousness and willingness to go deeper with us, let them go in peace. Creating a false sense of security and expectations that they need to meet our needs is codependent and emotionally immature. Trauma dumping, oversharing, classic hallmark behaviors that cause people to stonewall, shut down, walk away and never come back. As painful as it is, we have to become the safe person and continue rejecting conditional bids for love or manipulation.
Thank you so much for expounding on this topic, Daniel. I appreciate your sharing your testimony. I can relate to a lot of the painful memories that you’ve shared. You are healing a lot of people with broken and unresolved experiences. Thank you for helping us. The people who lacked family support, had to connect the dots themselves and put ourselves back to together again. 🙏🏻💖
Thank you for posting this.. I completely understand. I have made the same mistakes and am still a bit irritated and annoyed at the people I confided in. Its too easy to be trusting in such a vulnerable state.
This is so resonating. I cannot emphasize how much listening to you has helped me in my journey of healing. Thank you for all your work and more power to you.
When I was a kid my grandmother came up to me one day and sad that she can I tell I’m in pain because how I laugh and smile to cover it all up.. and that was the end of the conversation. She didn’t try to see where that pain comes from or even ask my any questions … I often wonder in my 43 years why not one person came into my life was a safe person… it’s like I walked around my entire life needing to cry and needing a hug but never getting it and what’s even crazy is I walk sometimes talk to people in my life that I felt was maybe safe at the time and I would tell them need sometimes I just want someone to hug and let me cry out like a baby for couple of minutes and that would be so great and the person would here this but made attempt at o acknowledge what I just said or even try to hug me… I don’t know how I got through 43 years of living without any try or of emotional support system , but I guess I didn’t get through it because I seemed to have remained stuck that entire time .. I’m intelligent, creative, out going personality, good listener, and take very good care of my appearance and yet it was if none of it ever mattered ..and I never became bitter , angry, revengeful consciously because I still smiled and laughed very hard and still saw the beauty in the things and cry hopeful like a kid at times ( most people thought I saw the world in rose colored glasses at times ) or told me to never change because I had such a positive spirit but I get subconsciously I though something totally diffent because no matter how I hard I tried to have a better life or the life that reflexed how i really saw my self I seemed to continue to fall short
Daniel, could you make a video about self-therapy with Internal Family Systems? Jay Early has a number of books for guiding people through the process. I would also like to hear your perspective on Frank Anderson's book on Transcending Trauma, which is written for therapists and deals with IFS for complex trauma.I'm currently reading it and finding it useful to contextualize some of my past experiences with therapists, in addition to understanding aspects of my traume better. Also, to everyone reading this, please try IFS. I adopted the perspective of accepting all my parts and their good intentions and hard work to keep me alive. I did not expect what happened next. I was able to really embody myself for the first time and reach my core, where I connected wiht myself, also for the first time. I cannot describe how revelatory that was. I felt joy, and was content and happy to be. Just being. And also, healed me of all my past suicidal ideation, because while being in Self, i was able to feel love, and whole, and understand that *I* don't want to die. I think maybe this was a less intense, normally available, version of what people experience on psychedelics maybe? It was extraordinarily empowering to get there on my own. All the sitting wiht my pain to get rhete was so worth it.
I'd be interested in this I've heard of both these books, I'm trying to do IFS as well and I find myself defensive and skeptical to try to talk to my parts or self
@wombat7961 I started out writing and imagining a physical place. There's a central room with various doors and lots of corridors. Some of the doors are locked. But in this central room there's everything we need and want, and each part is welcome there, if they want to come. And then I wrote down what some of my parts would like. I also thanked them all. And it felt sincere and heavy. I thanked them for keeping me alive, and I apologized for banishing them and for fighting with some of them and accusing them of various crimes. I told them I now understand they did the best they could to keep me safe and did not want me to do anything that would get us in trouble. And I acknowledged they worked very hard and were on their own. So far, I've written or talked to them collectively. I also told them I know it's hard to trust me or trust that I won't go back on accepting them, but they know I am committed to all of being unburden and free. Once they are freed from their current job, they can then choose what they want to do. It felt awkward at first but starting out writing and then talking occasionally helped. And look inside and listen. Like I get a feeling of resistance, so I offer reassurance and ask for cooperation. Don't go too fast. Ask what they're afraid of. You'll get an answer. Be patient.
@wombat7961 when you feel a part is getting defensive or skeptic, ask if they are worried about something and that validate that, and the skepticism. And see what happens. It's a conversation, not a monologue.
@@aiemys I think at this point I understand it conceptually but it's hard for me to take it seriously idk why I'm so defensive and I can't let my guard down like I think I'm too hypervigilant perhaps I need to look into doing it in person versus over the phone with a therapist
You know, that kid did help you, though. And it’s possible that afterwards he was aloof because he was wary of your wanting to suddenly be best friends… or worse, to be your de facto counselor. True trust is built up over time and testing. No other way.
I had a group therapist in Boston who was a psychopathic narcissist.. kept saying “you have put up too many defenses”, then he would tell people they are toxic and need to tell their grandma that she is unpleasant
I share the same sentiments…I can relate to everything you shared, I understand so much on a very deep level. Thank you Daniel for opening your heart to us, you have such a beautiful soul. ❤
Just had this experience with my therapist. I even confronted him and told him how bad it hurt to not have major disclosures acknowledged, and he gave me the empty chair
Ironically, I have seen some value in opening up to strangers on the internet. People who might not know where you live or what you look like. If they are genuinely empathetic, they will welcome you without being selfishly motivated, since they would have very little power over you, if any. IMO better to micro-confide in multiple strangers than overshare with any one family member or colleague, or even therapist. But that's just me.
That’s what I’ve unknowingly been doing on Reddit for the past few years lol. Just letting out little bits of history when the topic is relevant. Nobody knows who I am and the people who do usually reply went through the same thing and let me know I’m not alone
@@DING1o1i do the same. I have actually kind of made friends with a few people. So all i can say it truly helps. People are more alike they it might seem
Betrayed by my therapist from which I expected care and attention, listening and empathy. She dropped me by email, I never really managed to overcome this cruel abandonment
I had a friend i felt safe with. I told her alot of personal things. Now, I wish I hadn't. In the moment she appeared like a friend and supporter. I was always happy to help her out. Thene i started to see a bad pattern. It was one of recieving and taking and asking on her part. When i learned how to say the word NO, thats when things began to change. At first it was behind my back. My only daily choice now is to walk right past her, as she giggles and points at me with her ally, i hold my head up, and walk right by them, knowing how FREE I feel now. I've forgiven myself for not being smarter. Ive forgiven myself for not being quicker and sharper. I've forgiven myself for being too generous. I've even forgiven myself for trusting her. It's all okay now. I can let out a sigh of relief.
This video brings up a topic I've been thinking about lately I call "anti-social socializing" where people act like that boy did... they engage in converstations and actions that seem social on the surface but are really power dynamics and to make themselves feel special and needed rather than trying to actually help someone else. This stuff is soooo common.
some of us have had our trust so badly broken, that we do not share with others any longer. we have learned that almost everyone is untrustworthy, and that our pain is inappropriate to share. (or perhaps more accurately, they are too unnerved by facing the pain of someone else). i have lost all friends and family. it is even worse when 70-80% of therapists and pastors have mistreated us, with ego and blaming and lack of compassion and lack of listening. it damages our trust even more. i wish Daniel might acknowledge that indeed, some of us DON'T have anyone safe to share with. the implicit message i hear, when i don't hear such acknowledgement, is that there is something inherent wrong with ME if i cannot get this psychological need met. not that this is an unfortunate situation, but that i am to blame, somehow: "everyone should be able to find someone to share with, and if you cannot, you're too blame". if i change the title of this video in my head to "MY EXPERIENCE WITH choosing a safe person to confide in", i don't have such strong negative reaction. and indeed, Daniel isn't pushing anything on the listener in the actual video. but i'm so sensitive to all this "you should do X to heal" pressure from everywhere, that this is immediately how i reacted when i saw the title of this video.
That sounds like a classic fearful avoidant attachment situation. Having to stuff everything down and when it bursts out the temporary relief of someone coming to the rescue before abandoning again. I agree that the boy didn’t have malicious intent. It’s more what I heard recently that securely attached or even stable insecure attached can receive pieces of care with gaps in between and there is still faith and continuity internally which means they can benefit from connection and self-resource consistently. I also agree with comments about the inherent dishonesty in society and lack of transparency and clearly stated boundaries about what is being offered that is essential for a lot of people. People rehabilitating traumatised animals know this and yet language over action complicates things for humans
I still haven’t found anyone safe to confide in. I’m working on not confiding in untrustworthy people, but it’s exhausting carrying everything alone Al the time.
I am going around looking for confessors, probably unconsciously. But no one should be obligated to be my confessor, no matter how much i believe i need to confess, to cathart, to vent, to process etc. What does one do when they need a confessor, but it is moraly wrong to place anyone into that role? There has to be a balance between what you feel you need to unload and not unloading on other people. I think people in trauma can't help themselves but use other people as objects to place their pain. I tell myself a trauma shared is a trauma halved. I tell myself a trauma heard is a trauma healed. I tell myself my pain is precious, so to share it with another has inherent value. But does it? Is the only confessor available to humans a god or an angelic? Are humans even capable of truly being the confessee? It's almost like the expressing ones pain with another is mutually exclusive from interacting with them in a normal human way. I don't know if you can ever truly have both.
Happens to me all the time I just learned to forgive myself (after dealing with how horrible it feels) and remind myself I had no one else to talk to, and it was something I had to get off my chest
At the same time, it can feel like a kind of entrapment when somebody unburdens themselves and then expects to start spending time on a regular basis. Maybe I don't feel the connection.
I get the sense you really wanted and on some level expected them to not only listen and help you feel better but also rescue you from your situation (in childhood). Because if you told someone, and they cared, then surely they would do something? Anything? So if then life went on as before and they didn't even follow up, obviously they did not care. I understand that perspective, especially as someone who wanted to be rescued in some way too, and when it didnt happen, I did feel betrayed. I just feel most people are confused and overwhelmed in their own lives. And intimacy of sharing should indeed be reserved for safe people, but holding on to rescue fantasies makes everyone unsafe by definition.
I agree. From this video, I am left thinking that if I see an upset person I don't really know I mustn't get involved otherwise I will be seen as being fraudulently empathetic unless I keep extending myself to yes, keep 'rescuing them' from the ongoing upset.
To offer comfort and kindness is not the same as rescuing. Why are people so frightened of connecting with their fellow human being? I doubt a 12 year old boy could be expected to rescue anyone. They were both children. There was no reference made to the child asking for solutions. This "rescuing" premise is something manufactured. It was not reality. People, young or old simply want to be heard and validated. They want to be treated with honor and respect.
@beachybird1251 and rescue doesn't have to be literal; a relationship that makes you feel someone cares about you and that you matter and are valuable is what little kids really want in those scenarios. It's what I wanted. And it's okay to want that, but no relationship can replace the sense of intrinsic value and self-worth, and without that, chronic emptiness persists.
You have every right to feel the way you do. I don't know the situation but I was thinking from the other 12 year olds perspective. He didn't really know you and he may have felt he was being a good person to check on you. When you spilled your guts I really don't think any 12 year old should be held to a position of acting like a therapist. He probably didn't know what to do with that. You say he wanted power but if that was the case he probably would have told others and gossiped. The next day he probably figured that was too much to invest in and he didn't sign up for that so he resumed his normal life of trying to fit in and be popular and at age 12 to be honest that seems pretty reasonable. I think if you were friends before the incident you anger with him would be more justified. I totally get how oversharing with someone who is indifferent is really painful. I would say what would you realistically expect a 12 year old boy who didn't really know you to do? He may have done something no one else did and that was to check on you but wasn't equipped for what followed.
Growing up I had no one to confide in. At 18 I moved out on my own to a world where I truly didn't know anything about boys or men. Thank you I think this is important for young people.
Thank you for the encouraging truthful transparency ❤ you're a very kind person and I am familiar with being in toxic environments as well. I am thankful there are others I can share with instead of people pretending to be perfect all of the time
I think that boy did not do that out of ill intentions necessarily, it's just his social strategy and partly how he got popular probably. There is also the issue of status here: while he was able to have confident communication with you, having it in public is a different thing. You know that popular kids tend not to have relationships with unpopular ones in public settings to not potentially "harm" their status among peers.
You're always so empathetically articulate and uplifting. Your stories of realizations and lessons have been saving me. I just want to spread joy and hope like you do
My narc sis is that boy that sat with you. Then she would act so compassion then turn around and twist my story to other family members to laugh at me. They need to feel superior so the talk about you to make you sound unstable. I believe it’s called mobbing. My very charming sister goes around listening to your every word but only to use against you later.
I've felt a deeper connection with people I've only spoken with at the bar once than people who've "known me" my entire life. They have been the best confidants because of the transitory nature of the interaction. Anonymous strangers truly know me better than bad confidants and confessors. Once burned twice shy.
The only people I confide in is anonymous strangers on the internet whom I will never meet and God. I wouldn't even trust pastors and doctors or even family members unfortunately.
Haha. When i was ten, i was struggling a lot... to the point i had a suicide kit in my room. Too much aggressivity around me, includind my parents who were jehovah's witnesses. I asked to get another professor at school, in hope that i could have a less agressive one. I was so wrong. They sent me to the school psychologist who told me that my professor would be sad about that and that it would make a stain in her carreer. This day i understood that i wasn't part of any community and that i could only confide in myself. I'm happy i never told them i was suicidal. I took care of it myself and all the depreesed emotions have been behind me for 20 years. Confidence is like a virtual limb that you grow slowly but surely.👍
He listened to you (the first boy) - that's good But he wasn't obliged to keep hanging out with you - that's his choice I'd say he didn't do anything wrong
I think it’s that the boy didn’t even acknowledge him afterwards, looked down on him, it’s insincere. Could you imagine opening up to someone and then the next day they don’t even give you a second glance? A wave? It would make you feel used
If we're going to take this approach, then in that case, one could argue that nobody is truly obliged to do anything for anyone in this world. You're not obliged to help out a puppy in peril or even a person in an accident, you're not obliged to be faithful to your partner, heck, you're not even obliged to be a good, caring parent. Sure, in some of these scenarios, there might be legal consequences, but I hope laws aren't the sole motivator for our actions. When a person opens up to you and they are visibly vulnerable, distressed and helpless, ofcourse you have a choice to walk away but it's about basic human decency and empathy. If the response here is "Well, I'm not obliged to", then it really a reflection of values and character. It's not that hard to make someone feel included and valued.
@@qwerty9797 I'd say if you rescued a puppy from an accident you're not obliged to take him home afterwards Not even check on him when he's in the shelter Would be great if you did that but are you really obliged? I'm not defending or bashing that guy, maybe he was too ashamed that he got vulnerable himself or didn't want mr Mackler to become clingy Whatever happened in that guy's head after the intervention and the next day is unknown to me but the fact is that he indeed helped him in need and didn't use it against him or bring it up in public but treated him neutrally The other possibility is that he didn't want to associate with him publicly cause then he would have to explain to his friend the circumstances and where he knows mr Mackler from or thought that mr Mackler himself wouldn't want any interaction I watched the video once - I'm not sure if he said he'd tried to say hello to the guy and he ignored him or simply didn't initiate contact first People don't do everything with premeditation - they sometimes just do things and again - he helped him and didn't take advantage of that - that would be rude
@@Ulterior-l4k The puppy would still try to follow you home because even if it's no longer in immediate danger, it's far from a safe and caring environment. It found that in you and hence is following you, and I wouldn't say the puppy is being unreasonable here. Now, again, you're not obliged to help out in the first place. But if you genuinely care, you would do the most you can under those circumstances to help it out. I don't understand drawing this arbitrary border of 'obligation.' We don't know the exact circumstances of the boy in Mackler's story here, but if someone opens up to you one day, you should (if you really care, that is) at least follow up, ask if he's okay now, or anything you could do. It's not really that hard, and most people are not unreasonable. They're not asking for the moon. Just showing care and acknowledgment is enough.
yeah, i had the same experiences. I opened up to a cousin and they tried to use the information against me later because she was jealous of a skill I had. I also broke down in front of a female teacher and she looked disgusted and annoyed by me. Some people act like they're so great, but they have no empathy for others that inconvenience them in any way. I did open up to one of my siblings recently and she's actually a good listener and we've gotten closer. She's the only person other than my mom, who's ever given me an affectionate hug, and she's not a touchy person at all. I guess because I'm the only person in our family who actually listens to her and I can relate to her on a lot of things despite our age gap. It's worth opening up, but like Daniel said, only to people that deserve and earn it.
I think for your classmate it was an opportunity for him to see something weak towards him, to feel sorry for it and the next day to distance himself from it. So many relationships are based on this dynamic, simply when we talk about adults, both parties have the same responsibility I'm beginning to believe that the majority of people have children for this very reason, to transfer their sorrow for their ``weakness'' and not to share it. The best conduit for that is a child.. you speak so simply and so purposefully without complex psychiatric terms that you touch the soul directly
When I was in Junior High somehow I got cornered a lot as a designated confidante for other students' home problems. Anyone can tell who 'sensitives' are and who are insensitive socially, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how some get assigned such a role. Also, not sure why it didn't happen as much in Elementary or High School as much as in Junior High, something to ponder perhaps. Anyways, as someone who was there for others in a listening and holding space capacity plenty of times I want to state for the record that as a kid myself that, of course, I didn't have any wise words and special techniques. All I did offer was head nodding and basic responses like, "I get it." Some people found solace in that and some found it lacking. At the time, it didn't occur to me that I was being targeted for such a position because of how obvious my sensitive nature was to others that I was like a walking bulls eye. It's fascinating how people find ways to get their needs met by covert contracts... like I was just wordlessly conscripted to the job because it needed to get done and there I was with the requisite demeanor to fulfill it.
That boy was amazed by your truth. I knew this even before listening to the rest of the story... He probably would have wished to be as much in contact with his own feelings.
Dan, another great chat 🤝. I love that you shared some opposite experiences on the topic and shared your ultimate preference/recommendation. Thank you for being such a refreshing person ☺️
It felt so useless sharing my thoughts in therapy after it ended. Like this person is just off with my vulnerabilities. I believe it might be used against me some how. Sure it's against confidentiality, but still.
@@masterculturedunkerque7918 How weak I am in many ways. How many bad thing that has happened to me. My wants. My therapist wasn't good. I hated my time I spent with them.
@@roykalager2360Got a very weird expérience with a therapist. First female clinician psychologist I met in Women Center to treat a sexual trauma ptsd symptoms. She asked for a psychiatric backup I eventually achieved it on my own, I tried to vocalise what didnt suit me. She got defensive and she interrupted my therapy a month after by email without further discussion or preparation. I tried to reach for her help and she ghosted me, my condition gets worse and every provider I met defended her in some way. Til this day, I am worried about what she can do to retaliate against me as I tried to get some justice and accountability for her shitty behaviour. I felt rejected and humiliated by her
11:17 was a reminder that i needed, and is the reason why I'm working on my Narrative Identity. I need to understand the context in order to understand the emotions that accompany them. What happens after you find a safe person? How does this relationship look like? What do you talk about? (I get that it has to be a reciprocal relationship, boundaries, trust... what then?)
even though those guys didn't do you right, you still did yourself right though. that's all that matters. it's safe to completely ignore the other side when they enter a power dynamic.
Thank you Daniel for sharing your experience. I can so relate. I struggle with trusting people that I can honestly and opening share with. I try my best to be honest with myself and my own feelings, but find it difficult to share with others without feeling shame.
I honor the courageous people here who have experienced betrayal by a therapist and somehow gathered the fortitude to keep looking for the right help, and didn't give up when they were most vulnerable. I think of the inner work they must have already done by themselves to be able to take on this agonizing situation.
Confiding in your unhealed parents is so dangerous
Just happend.. got knocked down again.... be careful for sure...
@@thomasschliffke9185 so sorry to hear that… i’ve made the same mistake many times. It sucks that not saying anything is better
@@sonder2874 hits the spot exactly. Thank you for your understanding, it helps. Thank you
@@sonder2874 im sorry to hear you have to go through it too. Wish you well
I had to find out the hardest way too
I feel so fortunate to run across this guy's channel.
Truly a role mode. I learned a lot about myself by learning about him , even reading the comments section is an experience
Yes...definitely...if we have ears to hear...and hearts to change ourselves.
yes! :)
Finding someone who has dealt with their shit is rare.
We all continue to get more piled up. Faster than we can shovel.
We get piled up because our minds are filled with thinking. We have forgotten that there is Observation before Thinking. It is not necessary to get weary, senile, and piled up. As a matter of fact, we can flower as we grow.
Agreed
One of the mistakes I seem to make time and time again is to not only confide in the wrong person, but to overshare, often resulting in further humiliation and harm later down the line.
happened to me as well, even with a therapist, who i already sensed something odd with her long time ago…
me too over n over n over again. I din’t ‘know 🤷🏻♂️. ppl aren’t quite what they seem or what they say. But id never think that id be judged for something ‘I didn’t ‘do or had no control over. Strangest thing in the world. Sick. Projection. Transference.
I have this dilemma of not knowing what to say in the moment I am asked “How are you?” Most of the time I resort to good if I don’t have the mental energy to think about it, but when I do it’s like Hm what should I say, how specific should I be, and what do I think about this person’s ability to understand.
I have been going CRAZY about these ‘just talk to someone’ mental health campaigns I wanna scream.. ‘noooo don’t do it!’
I just saw a therapist not that long ago and I left in the middle of the session because he claimed he was a “tough love therapist”. Nope! He is in that profession so he can bully people when they are in vulnerable states. Disgusting!
All the time. Let em sink or float just keep movin. They do not qualified to ‘treat 🤣🤣 ANYTHING. Programmed.
terrifying how many narcissists are in that profession. I was emotionally abused by a clinical psychologist.
The only safe person is yourself, but only if you make it so.
You can’t confide in everyone. Choose someone who you can trust. Someone who is mentally well-balanced, open-minded, self-reflective and understanding. Someone who has empathy. So that they don’t just shun you away or dismiss your feelings, as though you don’t deserve to be listened to or understood.
yeah good luck with that.
I had an abusive mother. All of my girlfriends used that against me. Now, I just shut my mouth. My dog is my best friend.
get a different girlfriend
@@SArthur221 I’m single and happier now.
Same here and I'm a girl. It always works against you, to be honest - work, romance, or friendships. You must worship the mother
@@cricketycrickets3141 not in the eyes of anyone who knows what a bad mom is like
@@cricketycrickets3141 But remember that evil people, despite not talking to one another, share a common goal. so they give off the illusion of being a team.
A lesson I learnt the hard way recently: just because someone seems nice, and shows interest in how you’re feeling, maybe even is publicly seen as a caring person, doesn’t mean they’re healthy enough to be a safe person to confide in.
Recently, I had such an event where I confided in someone after being discriminated against for having disorders, this person had asked me how I felt about the situation, and once I told her I was questioning the values of the place we had been working together in and the people who made the discriminatory decision, she told me I was playing “victim”.
You're not allowed to question the moral character of other people. Everybody is good people. End of story. 🤡
Absurd, harmful statement, nothing about questioning the behaviour of the organisation indicates you identifying yourself as a victim. Absurd, absurd- to investigate the actions of the organisation and to surmise whether they were potentially harmful is not playing the victim. Absurd Absurd Absurd- saying "that hurt" and being affected by that pain and needing time to recover and wanting to express that pain is not playing the victim. I hope you stop interacting with that person!
I was conditioned at a very young age tell my parents everything .... When I found out that they were covert narc's I told them nothing .... worked out much better that way ,,
I wish I could confide in you, Daniel. I don't think I can trust anyone around me to help me, let alone heal me. I have lost all faith in humanity. In fact, those who I thought I could trust (eg. psychiatrists, some therapists, the system) have harmed me tremendously. I don't think I can heal within the system I am in.
OMG same. I'm looking for another care providers, other professionals to help me to heal from the crude violence I endured with a therapist and a psychiatrist at some extent who were supposed to help me to heal from a sexual trauma resurgence of symptoms
They didn't take advantage of or betray you, they just didn't care. They weren't preying on you for their own gain, they just didn't know how to help or didn't want to. That's only a betrayal if there is an expectation of reciprocal care.
This is a good point. It’s possible that the 12 year old was just trying to relieve his own discomfort at seeing little Dan crying. In that sense, he wasn’t being malicious. But personally, I do think this counts as taking advantage of someone, even if that is not the intent. It’s still using someone’s vulnerability for your own selfish purposes.
As human beings, we understand intuitively that sharing our pain with others is risky and scary. It’s only appropriate for our deepest, safest relationships. So when you invite someone in pain to tell you something personal, there’s an unspoken understanding that you’re willing to engage in a relationship with them - otherwise, what business do you have inviting them to be so vulnerable with you? Ignoring someone point-blank after a heartfelt confession _is_ a betrayal.
Of course, as we grow wiser, as Dan did that day, we realize that not everyone operates on this humane and compassionate level. People that are immature and not in touch with their own vulnerability are completely oblivious to the hurt they cause when they do this. They can say, “Well, I never said I was gonna be your friend or anything. I just gave you the chance to bare your soul to me, and you did. That’s totally on you and I take no responsibility. See ya!” There’s no way this 12 year old had the self-awareness to realize what he was doing, so I wouldn’t exactly blame him, but he still did something pretty awful in my book. The only question is whether he ever realizes it or not.
@@Meowch3 Quote: "for your own selfish purposes" This is what rings so out of tune for me. Everything about the story makes it clear that the kid was uncomfortable the whole time. His discomfort caused him to be open to receive the vulnerability and also to be aversive to another situation that would similarly leave him exposed to more discomfort. The other boy's drive was to minimize discomfort the whole time and never wavered.
I am in complete agreement with you that good, compassionate, well adjusted-people should behave better, but I strongly disagree that there is some de facto level of responsibility that any person OWES another. If, as you say, the other boy was trying to exploit Dan's vulnerability he could have very easily teased him or used him as a social pariah for his own social gain but didn't exploit him in any way.
Ultimately my greatest fear is that it is just extremely tempting to shift responsibility for our own suffering onto others, but it only seems to disempower us. I think we should all strive to meet your ideal of compassion, but we cannot ever weild another person's failure to meet that standard as an excuse to put blame on them for something that happened to them every bit as much as it happened to you. The reason the boy became aversive is because he was uncomfortable with what happened to him. He has every bit as much right to protect himself from that discomfort as you do to expect some level of reciprocity for your vulnerability, which is to say none at all.
There are so many wonderful lessons to learn in this about inviting and connecting with people and reducing such a difficult situation to assigning blame to others is anathema to that value.
@@NoPodcastsHere
I understand where you’re coming from. I guess I do believe there is a de facto level of responsibility we owe people. I believe everyone is owed a basic level of respect. If we don't believe people owe us at least this much, then it becomes very difficult to navigate the world and discern the safe people from the unsafe ones. In my opinion, little Dan's only mistake was assuming that all people who pretend to have good intentions are actually good. It would've served him well to remember that not everyone has our best interests in mind, and that it's entirely up to us to judge others' intentions carefully and protect ourselves. But he did learn this afterwards. Do we only have ourselves to blame when things go south? In practice I do wholeheartedly agree with that. It IS counterproductive and disempowering to blame others...but at the same time, pretending they did nothing wrong at all just doesn't sit well with me.
You're right that the boy never owed Dan friendship, even if he created that expectation. I think what I have an issue with is the unacceptable silent treatment he gave Dan afterwards. The boy's discomfort was valid and I am all for him respecting his own needs and feelings, but no matter how uncomfortable you are, I don't think it's ever justification to treat someone so poorly. There are perfectly respectable ways to advocate for your own needs.
If he was uncomfortable hanging out with Dan, he should’ve at least confronted him and said something like, "Hey, Dan. I'm sorry but we can't hang out. We can't be friends. But I hope you feel better about your dad and grandma. I promise I'll keep what you told me a secret forever, OK? It's safe with me. Goodbye." This would’ve still hurt, but the point is not to prevent others from suffering. It's just to do the decent and right thing. _He owed it to Dan to at least clear up the misunderstanding that HE created._ I believe it was selfish of him not to, no matter how uncomfortable he was.
Ultimately, I just think it’s important to recognize when someone has wronged you instead of excusing their behavior by saying they had no responsibility toward you in the first place. They did, they just refused to take it. A decent human being would've done so. We can acknowledge that someone hurt us, did us wrong, and should’ve known better, while admitting that we too should've known better so we can take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.
In essence I think that I am not really disagreeing with you, just taking it one step further by holding the boy accountable for his actions by clearly judging what he did as "wrong." He treated Dan badly and failed to follow through respectfully with what he started. I think he did owe this much to Dan.
@@Meowch3 I think we are mostly in agreement, but you still state over and over that this boy acted in some way towards Dan, whereas I see him as almost entirely passive throughout the story merely reacting to mature things happening that he didnt understand, and he tried to do the right thing but ultimately got overwhelmed and just tried to avoid the discomfort. I love the example you gave of what the other boy could have said to Dan, and I think we should be modeling these interactions as adults so that children can learn how to connect like that when uncomfortable, but I am just at a complete loss as to what is gained by blaming a kid who may have missed the mark but was basically trying his best and got in over his head. You said:
"If we don't believe people owe us at least this much, then it becomes very difficult to navigate the world and discern the safe people from the unsafe ones."
But while I can appreciate the logic I think this is exactly backwards, assuming that everyone has our interests at heart and acting and expecting people to care for us just sets us up for failure and hurt. Obviously we'd all like that world, but if you're interested in a kids wellbeing you can't teach them to expect respect from others and to be hurt when they don't receive it. I would give a counterpoint to your suggestion of what the other boy could have said, since Dan was the one aggrieved, if I was their teacher/guardian I would have have Dan initiate the contact and express his hurt to the other boy with something like:
"Hey, I'm sorry if I vented to you inappropriately earlier. I understand if you don't want to hang out but I was hoping that you'll keep what I told you a secret, OK? Thank you."
I don't think either boy has any obligation per se to reconcile, but if either does it certainly seems to me it would be Dan who has something to say to the other. The other boy didnt cause the situation or the discomfort, he is as much a victim of the circumstances as dan is, just because Dan may be a greater victim in a different context doesn't factor at all into what is owed between the boys. Neither boy is at 'fault' because it is happening to both of them, but likewise neither boy is responsible per se for the accidental hurt caused by Dan opening himself to someone who wasnt available to receive him.
It's an unfortunate situation, no doubt but as openminded as I am to hear counterargument, I am utterly convinced for now that the only good solutions to situations like these involve maximizing the number of people who voluntarily choose to take responsibility for others, and that real solutions can never truly come from assigning responsibility to someone else other than one's self. It doesn't mean to condone or even accept the bad behavior, it just means that if you decide that their behavior needs to change that you are ultimately the one responsible for changing their behavior, as trying to convince someone that they are responsible for changing themselves for you is an exercise in futility, even if that change is a righteous or necessary one.
@@NoPodcastsHere
It seems I wasn't clear. I agree there is a time and place for compassion. I can put myself in the boy’s shoes and understand that he might not have intended to cause harm, and that he might have wanted to do the right thing but got overwhelmed. And he’s only 12 to boot, so he probably had no idea what he was doing. But - and this is a big but - abuse is abuse. Bad treatment is bad treatment. If I were a bystander child looking at this, I would have compassion for the boy but also recognize that he did the wrong thing by ignoring Dan. No matter how much I could understand him, I would be rightfully weary of getting involved with this boy myself and would probably avoid him if I could help it. Recognizing wrongdoing and having compassion for someone are not mutually exclusive.
If you’re in a romantic relationship and your partner yells and screams at you in anger because you accidentally dropped his expensive laptop, it doesn’t matter how right he is to be furious - yelling and screaming are bad behaviors that have no place in a relationship, ever. But you’ll find _plenty_ of people in the world who don’t think so and put up with it. MY fear is that someone who subscribes to your philosophy will end up like those people. They let their compassion get in the way of clearly judging behaviors as “wrong” and “unacceptable,” especially when it comes to the people they love, and consequently fail to extricate themselves from abusive relationships. This is what having boundaries is all about and is why having a moral philosophy is crucial to protecting yourself from unsafe people. It’s the idea that there are certain things you just don’t do, no matter how you’re feeling.
Yes, this is a mere 12 year old boy. He deserves compassion. I’m not in favor of throwing rocks at him and kicking him. I’m simply using an internal moral philosophy to judge him and his actions. I can still appreciate his struggles. As an extreme example, I can judge and have compassion for a raging murderer too. If I read the story of his childhood and learn why he ended up killing someone in anger, I would be able to understand why he did it and even sympathize with him. But he still killed someone, and that is wrong, no matter how you slice it (assuming it’s not in self-defense). That doesn’t mean I’m in favor of punishing him. Maybe I think he deserves to be rehabilitated so he gets another chance at life. The advantage to knowing that he did something wrong is not to judge him for the sake of judging, or to administer punishment, or to demand that he change. The advantage is that I know to stay far the hell away from him because he’s bad news. The people who can’t make this kind of hard judgment write him love letters in jail instead (it really does happen.)
“assuming that everyone has our interests at heart and acting and expecting people to care for us just sets us up for failure and hurt”
No, no, I said that this is exactly what we SHOULDN’T do. In no way would I EVER encourage anyone to assume the world has their best interests at heart. That is extremely dangerous. When I say people owe us a basic level of respect, I am again making a moral judgment. Good people, the people we want in our lives and want to associate with, will do this, and bad people, people we’d rather stay away from, will not. The point is that we have a standard for how people SHOULD behave. It is against this standard that we judge others and decide whether they should stay in our lives or not.
“I don't think either boy has any obligation per se to reconcile, but if either does it certainly seems to me it would be Dan who has something to say to the other. The other boy didnt cause the situation or the discomfort, he is as much a victim of the circumstances as dan is.”
This is where we’ll just have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, the boy has the obligation to reconcile because he is the one who went to Dan, who was vulnerable and not in the best headspace to make great decisions, and encouraged him to spill his troubles. He then treated Dan badly by giving him the silent treatment. This is one of those things you don’t do to another no matter how you’re feeling. If I had a child, I would hope she’d look at that and think, “Huh, this guy isn’t someone I want to hang around with. Can’t believe he just ignored someone like that. He has his reasons, I'm sure, but it's still wrong to treat people that way. If he’s comfortable doing this wrong thing, who knows what other wrong things he’s fine doing. I'm sure he's just doing his best, but for my own sake, I'd better stay away or at least be cautious around him."
As you can see, this is _all about_ assigning responsibility to yourself. I don’t even believe it’s ever your responsibility to change someone’s behavior; there is no need if you don’t want to, just show them the door. You are only ever in charge of yourself. Hopefully you hold yourself to a certain standard. I am just saying, it’s better if you hold others to that standard as well, so that YOU can take charge of your own life and decide whether this person deserves a spot in it or not.
You are the most real, sincere , sane and functional and loving and brilliant person…..❤️
Today, I wanted to send a message to someone but my inner voice said to me that it was not a good idea. I should talk to my self first, feel what's happening and then wonder again: is it safe for me to Open about My feelings with this person?
The answer was no.
Thank you for talk about this topic ❤
I do this too more and more. ❤
Actually that first story was far less bad than I expected - I was expecting the boy was going to tell all his friends and laugh or use it against you in some way, I guess it wasn't what you wanted or needed but I think being caring is not the same as being best friends
yeah a sense of impending doom was ahead at the start of this story, that was half decent the way it turned out, anyway it's understandable from a loner and outcast viewpoint how he felt at the moment, this glimpse of really finding someone to throw you a line and pull you from this loneliness and stuff and finding out that actually there was no line and you are once again astray on your own
Daniel projected and still projects his needs onto that kid and was wounded when he didn't fill them.
The kid had no obligation to do anything. His actions were kind and compassionate but Daniel can't see this because of still unintegrated trauma.
This was clear when he deemed the other child a "dishonest and uncaring" when he didn't meet the needs that were Daniels parents responsibility to fill.
He even says that he felt "used and betrayed, kinda like he did with his family"
If you see this Daniel, I'd love to hear your current perspective on this.
Think of that boy like a first responder. When you are the first at an accident you help of course. But you wouldn't feel obligated to help them with their other problems. I think that boy didn't want to use you. He just recognized how desperate you were and reacted. That doesn't mean he gave you a contract to become your friend. Should he just have passed you and let you sob alone, so you don't feel used?
I appreciate your perspective. Like Daniel, I have placed unrealistic expectations on others. There's such a big void and ultimately wound from not being seen and heard as children that one goes through life looking and expecting others to fill those unmet needs from childhood when that's not possible today. Idealization of others; it's a coping mechanism. Just bc we're conditioned to be caretakers does not mean others are as well.
I thought the same thing. That boy did nothing wrong. Just because you lend an ear to someone who is deeply upset in one moment, doesn't mean you have to become friends with them the next day or at all.
Like Daniel says himself, he's still a work in process. This is clearly just unintegrated trauma left living in his memory.
The boy was compassionate and acted wisely.
Daniel read into this because of his unmet need for connection and was wounded when those needs weren't filled.
Totally understand this from children, but was a bit surprised to see that it's something Daniel still does not see (and blames the boy for being dishonest and uncaring).
I think I disagree with just one thing you spoke about here Daniel. I think the 12 year old boy who listened to your troubles and your pain wasn't necessarily doing it for power. Had he done that, he probably would've used it against you at some point inevitably. Instead, I think he was just a 12 year old boy who didn't know how to go about that sort of situation. Maybe he didn't want to risk his status by letting you sit with his lunch table, and maybe he didn't want to mess up somehow and hurt you (which in turn would've given him great shame) so he ignored you the next day. This is how I saw it anyways, I'm not the one who experienced those events so I'm happy to be wrong. That was just my interpretation.
I think this boy got spooked because it was too much to hold and proceeding with an continued investment was not calling for him
When I first attempted psychotherapy, I got so hurt because I just assumed that the person I had the appointment with was my therapist. But as it turned out after I had confided in him, he was just evaluating me and then wanting to send me off to someone else!
I was so heartbroken I didn't start therapy with the therapist I was assigned to. I tried a few more times for therapy later, but it never really worked. Even though I think some of them genuinely cared, I wasn't able to give them a chance full heartedly. I never felt safe being someone's job after my initial experience. I prefer building stable friendships.
Breaking away from a toxic relationship recently I discovered that most people can't really understand and can't support in a healthy way. The only ones that did, were those few that have gone through the same thing themselves.
I'm in my 30's and I have no one to confide in and I have no idea how to find them without subjecting myself to abuse from people who not only do not care about me, but who project all their insecurities and resentments onto me for superficial reasons over which I have no control at all.
What an amazing Saturday morning gift! The combination of a caring and self aware person is so rare.
Learning discretion about who to share with and who not to share with is a tricky one.
Another beautiful pearl of wisdom, Daniel. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and experiences with us. Thank you for showing us that we’re not alone.
This resonated with me so much and reminded me of the times where I had chosen to confide in certain people and felt regret some time later if not immediately. And even an experience with a therapist who sounded rather bored and mechanical, making it feel obvious that this was someone who I was paid to talk to and didn't actually care about me. I don't want to jinx this but I've had the chance to meet a friend who has been such a safe person to share things to and it made the world of a difference. Please choose who you share things to!
I suppose, at least that guy didn't tell others, so maybe he was being genuine in the moment?
Precisely! At the moment. He was being curious, not concerned. It's hard to confide in people.
Right. I confided in so many of the wrong people so many times because first impressions are deceptive.
Your words are precious! Thank you Daniel!!!
Now days, it’s really hard for guys to make friends with other “guy” friends. Even in the gay society, it’s hard to make a friend.
This brought up a lot of emotion for me. My mother was a narcissistic counselor who in my childhood used me as a surrogate spouse. She force counseled me to "bare all", week after week, implying the relationship would be over if I didn't show her the trust and love she deserved as my mom. I only recently realised how dissociated I've been, that the way I learned to talk about emotions was from that split place, like my emotions were behind a thick glass wall. I could describe them for people and counselors without even a little bit showing in my body or voice.
I wonder how many other people who were harmed even somewhat by a therapeutic relationship can relate. When the sacredness of real vulnerability is violated again and again, it's almost natural to split. I'm still learning to reconnect thoughts, body, breath, voice, and words. Journaling was recommended by my mother as healing even back then (which she read), so even that has been a reinforcing of that dissociation at times, though not always.
I relate to someone else's comment amount their dog. I have an absolutely wonderful cat. I just got up from an hour long cat hug, feeling that yes he wants me to feel and be fully me just as I want him to be fully him. He follows me on walks. It's wonderful in that it's so body focused.
I kinda relate. I went to residential treatment places (that sucked big time) and they kept pushing mindfulness and body scans and all that and now I still find that stuff unhelpful and upsetting. It has to be a wildly different kind or technique for it to be calming in any way.
Daniel, love your videos man please keep it up.
People can only meet us as deeply as they’ve met themselves. If they lack consciousness and willingness to go deeper with us, let them go in peace. Creating a false sense of security and expectations that they need to meet our needs is codependent and emotionally immature. Trauma dumping, oversharing, classic hallmark behaviors that cause people to stonewall, shut down, walk away and never come back. As painful as it is, we have to become the safe person and continue rejecting conditional bids for love or manipulation.
The Safest Persons Can Become Threat and Dangerous In No Time
Thank you so much for expounding on this topic, Daniel. I appreciate your sharing your testimony. I can relate to a lot of the painful memories that you’ve shared. You are healing a lot of people with broken and unresolved experiences. Thank you for helping us. The people who lacked family support, had to connect the dots themselves and put ourselves back to together again. 🙏🏻💖
Thank you Daniel 🙏❤️
Thank you for posting this.. I completely understand. I have made the same mistakes and am still a bit irritated and annoyed at the people I confided in. Its too easy to be trusting in such a vulnerable state.
I love your heart! ❤❤❤ I agree that therapists don’t put their heart in, and that IS the job and why it’s hard. I’m an ex therapist too
This is so resonating. I cannot emphasize how much listening to you has helped me in my journey of healing. Thank you for all your work and more power to you.
When I was a kid my grandmother came up to me one day and sad that she can I tell I’m in pain because how I laugh and smile to cover it all up.. and that was the end of the conversation. She didn’t try to see where that pain comes from or even ask my any questions … I often wonder in my 43 years why not one person came into my life was a safe person… it’s like I walked around my entire life needing to cry and needing a hug but never getting it and what’s even crazy is I walk sometimes talk to people in my life that I felt was maybe safe at the time and I would tell them need sometimes I just want someone to hug and let me cry out like a baby for couple of minutes and that would be so great and the person would here this but made attempt at o acknowledge what I just said or even try to hug me… I don’t know how I got through 43 years of living without any try or of emotional support system , but I guess I didn’t get through it because I seemed to have remained stuck that entire time .. I’m intelligent, creative, out going personality, good listener, and take very good care of my appearance and yet it was if none of it ever mattered ..and I never became bitter , angry, revengeful consciously because I still smiled and laughed very hard and still saw the beauty in the things and cry hopeful like a kid at times ( most people thought I saw the world in rose colored glasses at times ) or told me to never change because I had such a positive spirit but I get subconsciously I though something totally diffent because no matter how I hard I tried to have a better life or the life that reflexed how i really saw my self I seemed to continue to fall short
Daniel, could you make a video about self-therapy with Internal Family Systems? Jay Early has a number of books for guiding people through the process.
I would also like to hear your perspective on Frank Anderson's book on Transcending Trauma, which is written for therapists and deals with IFS for complex trauma.I'm currently reading it and finding it useful to contextualize some of my past experiences with therapists, in addition to understanding aspects of my traume better.
Also, to everyone reading this, please try IFS. I adopted the perspective of accepting all my parts and their good intentions and hard work to keep me alive. I did not expect what happened next. I was able to really embody myself for the first time and reach my core, where I connected wiht myself, also for the first time. I cannot describe how revelatory that was. I felt joy, and was content and happy to be. Just being. And also, healed me of all my past suicidal ideation, because while being in Self, i was able to feel love, and whole, and understand that *I* don't want to die. I think maybe this was a less intense, normally available, version of what people experience on psychedelics maybe? It was extraordinarily empowering to get there on my own. All the sitting wiht my pain to get rhete was so worth it.
I'd be interested in this I've heard of both these books, I'm trying to do IFS as well and I find myself defensive and skeptical to try to talk to my parts or self
@wombat7961 I started out writing and imagining a physical place. There's a central room with various doors and lots of corridors. Some of the doors are locked. But in this central room there's everything we need and want, and each part is welcome there, if they want to come.
And then I wrote down what some of my parts would like.
I also thanked them all. And it felt sincere and heavy. I thanked them for keeping me alive, and I apologized for banishing them and for fighting with some of them and accusing them of various crimes. I told them I now understand they did the best they could to keep me safe and did not want me to do anything that would get us in trouble. And I acknowledged they worked very hard and were on their own. So far, I've written or talked to them collectively. I also told them I know it's hard to trust me or trust that I won't go back on accepting them, but they know I am committed to all of being unburden and free. Once they are freed from their current job, they can then choose what they want to do. It felt awkward at first but starting out writing and then talking occasionally helped. And look inside and listen. Like I get a feeling of resistance, so I offer reassurance and ask for cooperation. Don't go too fast. Ask what they're afraid of. You'll get an answer. Be patient.
@wombat7961 when you feel a part is getting defensive or skeptic, ask if they are worried about something and that validate that, and the skepticism. And see what happens. It's a conversation, not a monologue.
@@aiemys I think at this point I understand it conceptually but it's hard for me to take it seriously idk why I'm so defensive and I can't let my guard down like I think I'm too hypervigilant perhaps I need to look into doing it in person versus over the phone with a therapist
@wombat7961 I found a therapist to work with in person, and it definitely makes it easier.
You know, that kid did help you, though. And it’s possible that afterwards he was aloof because he was wary of your wanting to suddenly be best friends… or worse, to be your de facto counselor.
True trust is built up over time and testing. No other way.
Thankyou for continuing to post videos to help us. Thankyou for standing up and being brave. Thankyou for your honesty.
Your sharing is always insightful and informative. Thanks 🙏🏻
I had a group therapist in Boston who was a psychopathic narcissist.. kept saying “you have put up too many defenses”, then he would tell people they are toxic and need to tell their grandma that she is unpleasant
I share the same sentiments…I can relate to everything you shared, I understand so much on a very deep level. Thank you Daniel for opening your heart to us, you have such a beautiful soul. ❤
it's hard. Thank you Daniel for being here.
Just had this experience with my therapist. I even confronted him and told him how bad it hurt to not have major disclosures acknowledged, and he gave me the empty chair
Ironically, I have seen some value in opening up to strangers on the internet. People who might not know where you live or what you look like. If they are genuinely empathetic, they will welcome you without being selfishly motivated, since they would have very little power over you, if any. IMO better to micro-confide in multiple strangers than overshare with any one family member or colleague, or even therapist. But that's just me.
That is an interesting perspective
I agree
That’s what I’ve unknowingly been doing on Reddit for the past few years lol. Just letting out little bits of history when the topic is relevant. Nobody knows who I am and the people who do usually reply went through the same thing and let me know I’m not alone
@@DING1o1i do the same. I have actually kind of made friends with a few people. So all i can say it truly helps. People are more alike they it might seem
Betrayed by my therapist from which I expected care and attention, listening and empathy. She dropped me by email, I never really managed to overcome this cruel abandonment
You are the dude.
Thank YOU 🙏🏼 for existing Daniel ♥️
Someone could confide in you.
Great video as usual Daniel. I feel like you are a confidant.
Omg this is the video I needed at this point in my life. Today I was contemplating this very topic
I had a friend i felt safe with. I told her alot of personal things. Now, I wish I hadn't. In the moment she appeared like a friend and supporter. I was always happy to help her out. Thene i started to see a bad pattern. It was one of recieving and taking and asking on her part. When i learned how to say the word NO, thats when things began to change. At first it was behind my back. My only daily choice now is to walk right past her, as she giggles and points at me with her ally, i hold my head up, and walk right by them, knowing how FREE I feel now. I've forgiven myself for not being smarter. Ive forgiven myself for not being quicker and sharper. I've forgiven myself for being too generous. I've even forgiven myself for trusting her. It's all okay now. I can let out a sigh of relief.
***They were doing their JOB, but their ❤ wasn’t in it***
perfectly put. Thank you for your content.
This video brings up a topic I've been thinking about lately I call "anti-social socializing" where people act like that boy did... they engage in converstations and actions that seem social on the surface but are really power dynamics and to make themselves feel special and needed rather than trying to actually help someone else. This stuff is soooo common.
I'm going to use "anti-social socializing" to label and give myself some space in the smog thank you
@@user-uh5tb9er4o ☺
I stopped engaging with them. Sleepwalkers.
some of us have had our trust so badly broken, that we do not share with others any longer. we have learned that almost everyone is untrustworthy, and that our pain is inappropriate to share. (or perhaps more accurately, they are too unnerved by facing the pain of someone else). i have lost all friends and family.
it is even worse when 70-80% of therapists and pastors have mistreated us, with ego and blaming and lack of compassion and lack of listening. it damages our trust even more.
i wish Daniel might acknowledge that indeed, some of us DON'T have anyone safe to share with. the implicit message i hear, when i don't hear such acknowledgement, is that there is something inherent wrong with ME if i cannot get this psychological need met. not that this is an unfortunate situation, but that i am to blame, somehow: "everyone should be able to find someone to share with, and if you cannot, you're too blame".
if i change the title of this video in my head to "MY EXPERIENCE WITH choosing a safe person to confide in", i don't have such strong negative reaction. and indeed, Daniel isn't pushing anything on the listener in the actual video. but i'm so sensitive to all this "you should do X to heal" pressure from everywhere, that this is immediately how i reacted when i saw the title of this video.
That sounds like a classic fearful avoidant attachment situation. Having to stuff everything down and when it bursts out the temporary relief of someone coming to the rescue before abandoning again. I agree that the boy didn’t have malicious intent. It’s more what I heard recently that securely attached or even stable insecure attached can receive pieces of care with gaps in between and there is still faith and continuity internally which means they can benefit from connection and self-resource consistently. I also agree with comments about the inherent dishonesty in society and lack of transparency and clearly stated boundaries about what is being offered that is essential for a lot of people. People rehabilitating traumatised animals know this and yet language over action complicates things for humans
I still haven’t found anyone safe to confide in. I’m working on not confiding in untrustworthy people, but it’s exhausting carrying everything alone Al the time.
I am going around looking for confessors, probably unconsciously. But no one should be obligated to be my confessor, no matter how much i believe i need to confess, to cathart, to vent, to process etc. What does one do when they need a confessor, but it is moraly wrong to place anyone into that role? There has to be a balance between what you feel you need to unload and not unloading on other people. I think people in trauma can't help themselves but use other people as objects to place their pain. I tell myself a trauma shared is a trauma halved. I tell myself a trauma heard is a trauma healed. I tell myself my pain is precious, so to share it with another has inherent value. But does it? Is the only confessor available to humans a god or an angelic? Are humans even capable of truly being the confessee? It's almost like the expressing ones pain with another is mutually exclusive from interacting with them in a normal human way. I don't know if you can ever truly have both.
Happens to me all the time I just learned to forgive myself (after dealing with how horrible it feels) and remind myself I had no one else to talk to, and it was something I had to get off my chest
At the same time, it can feel like a kind of entrapment when somebody unburdens themselves and then expects to start spending time on a regular basis. Maybe I don't feel the connection.
This is 100% true. It's just really hard to see if you're starving for connection.
One thing I have learned: Confiding in a therapist is confiding with the police. I don't mean you, I mean them.
I just wanna say
THANK YOU
I get the sense you really wanted and on some level expected them to not only listen and help you feel better but also rescue you from your situation (in childhood). Because if you told someone, and they cared, then surely they would do something? Anything? So if then life went on as before and they didn't even follow up, obviously they did not care. I understand that perspective, especially as someone who wanted to be rescued in some way too, and when it didnt happen, I did feel betrayed.
I just feel most people are confused and overwhelmed in their own lives. And intimacy of sharing should indeed be reserved for safe people, but holding on to rescue fantasies makes everyone unsafe by definition.
Agreed! Beautifully said.
I agree. From this video, I am left thinking that if I see an upset person I don't really know I mustn't get involved otherwise I will be seen as being fraudulently empathetic unless I keep extending myself to yes, keep 'rescuing them' from the ongoing upset.
To offer comfort and kindness is not the same as rescuing. Why are people so frightened of connecting with their fellow human being? I doubt a 12 year old boy could be expected to rescue anyone. They were both children. There was no reference made to the child asking for solutions. This "rescuing" premise is something manufactured. It was not reality. People, young or old simply want to be heard and validated. They want to be treated with honor and respect.
@beachybird1251 it's the parts about nothing changed
@beachybird1251 and rescue doesn't have to be literal; a relationship that makes you feel someone cares about you and that you matter and are valuable is what little kids really want in those scenarios. It's what I wanted. And it's okay to want that, but no relationship can replace the sense of intrinsic value and self-worth, and without that, chronic emptiness persists.
you just cant trust people, beware self exposure
You have every right to feel the way you do. I don't know the situation but I was thinking from the other 12 year olds perspective. He didn't really know you and he may have felt he was being a good person to check on you. When you spilled your guts I really don't think any 12 year old should be held to a position of acting like a therapist. He probably didn't know what to do with that. You say he wanted power but if that was the case he probably would have told others and gossiped. The next day he probably figured that was too much to invest in and he didn't sign up for that so he resumed his normal life of trying to fit in and be popular and at age 12 to be honest that seems pretty reasonable. I think if you were friends before the incident you anger with him would be more justified.
I totally get how oversharing with someone who is indifferent is really painful.
I would say what would you realistically expect a 12 year old boy who didn't really know you to do? He may have done something no one else did and that was to check on you but wasn't equipped for what followed.
Growing up I had no one to confide in. At 18 I moved out on my own to a world where I truly didn't know anything about boys or men. Thank you I think this is important for young people.
Thank you for the encouraging truthful transparency ❤ you're a very kind person and I am familiar with being in toxic environments as well. I am thankful there are others I can share with instead of people pretending to be perfect all of the time
I think that boy did not do that out of ill intentions necessarily, it's just his social strategy and partly how he got popular probably. There is also the issue of status here: while he was able to have confident communication with you, having it in public is a different thing. You know that popular kids tend not to have relationships with unpopular ones in public settings to not potentially "harm" their status among peers.
I wish i had seen this video a decade ago. Amazing input
You're always so empathetically articulate and uplifting. Your stories of realizations and lessons have been saving me. I just want to spread joy and hope like you do
My narc sis is that boy that sat with you. Then she would act so compassion then turn around and twist my story to other family members to laugh at me. They need to feel superior so the talk about you to make you sound unstable. I believe it’s called mobbing. My very charming sister goes around listening to your every word but only to use against you later.
I've felt a deeper connection with people I've only spoken with at the bar once than people who've "known me" my entire life. They have been the best confidants because of the transitory nature of the interaction. Anonymous strangers truly know me better than bad confidants and confessors. Once burned twice shy.
🤍 I agree
The only people I confide in is anonymous strangers on the internet whom I will never meet and God. I wouldn't even trust pastors and doctors or even family members unfortunately.
Thank you.
Haha. When i was ten, i was struggling a lot... to the point i had a suicide kit in my room. Too much aggressivity around me, includind my parents who were jehovah's witnesses. I asked to get another professor at school, in hope that i could have a less agressive one. I was so wrong. They sent me to the school psychologist who told me that my professor would be sad about that and that it would make a stain in her carreer. This day i understood that i wasn't part of any community and that i could only confide in myself. I'm happy i never told them i was suicidal. I took care of it myself and all the depreesed emotions have been behind me for 20 years. Confidence is like a virtual limb that you grow slowly but surely.👍
For most people, this type of person does not exist.
He listened to you (the first boy) - that's good
But he wasn't obliged to keep hanging out with you - that's his choice
I'd say he didn't do anything wrong
I think it’s that the boy didn’t even acknowledge him afterwards, looked down on him, it’s insincere. Could you imagine opening up to someone and then the next day they don’t even give you a second glance? A wave? It would make you feel used
If we're going to take this approach, then in that case, one could argue that nobody is truly obliged to do anything for anyone in this world. You're not obliged to help out a puppy in peril or even a person in an accident, you're not obliged to be faithful to your partner, heck, you're not even obliged to be a good, caring parent. Sure, in some of these scenarios, there might be legal consequences, but I hope laws aren't the sole motivator for our actions.
When a person opens up to you and they are visibly vulnerable, distressed and helpless, ofcourse you have a choice to walk away but it's about basic human decency and empathy. If the response here is "Well, I'm not obliged to", then it really a reflection of values and character. It's not that hard to make someone feel included and valued.
@@qwerty9797
I'd say if you rescued a puppy from an accident you're not obliged to take him home afterwards
Not even check on him when he's in the shelter
Would be great if you did that but are you really obliged?
I'm not defending or bashing that guy, maybe he was too ashamed that he got vulnerable himself or didn't want mr Mackler to become clingy
Whatever happened in that guy's head after the intervention and the next day is unknown to me but the fact is that he indeed helped him in need and didn't use it against him or bring it up in public but treated him neutrally
The other possibility is that he didn't want to associate with him publicly cause then he would have to explain to his friend the circumstances and where he knows mr Mackler from or thought that mr Mackler himself wouldn't want any interaction
I watched the video once - I'm not sure if he said he'd tried to say hello to the guy and he ignored him or simply didn't initiate contact first
People don't do everything with premeditation - they sometimes just do things and again - he helped him and didn't take advantage of that - that would be rude
@@Ulterior-l4k The puppy would still try to follow you home because even if it's no longer in immediate danger, it's far from a safe and caring environment. It found that in you and hence is following you, and I wouldn't say the puppy is being unreasonable here. Now, again, you're not obliged to help out in the first place. But if you genuinely care, you would do the most you can under those circumstances to help it out. I don't understand drawing this arbitrary border of 'obligation.'
We don't know the exact circumstances of the boy in Mackler's story here, but if someone opens up to you one day, you should (if you really care, that is) at least follow up, ask if he's okay now, or anything you could do. It's not really that hard, and most people are not unreasonable. They're not asking for the moon. Just showing care and acknowledgment is enough.
You’ve helped me. Thank you for your thoughts! ❤️
yeah, i had the same experiences. I opened up to a cousin and they tried to use the information against me later because she was jealous of a skill I had. I also broke down in front of a female teacher and she looked disgusted and annoyed by me. Some people act like they're so great, but they have no empathy for others that inconvenience them in any way.
I did open up to one of my siblings recently and she's actually a good listener and we've gotten closer. She's the only person other than my mom, who's ever given me an affectionate hug, and she's not a touchy person at all. I guess because I'm the only person in our family who actually listens to her and I can relate to her on a lot of things despite our age gap. It's worth opening up, but like Daniel said, only to people that deserve and earn it.
I really like this channel, it's like a treasure
So grateful. ❤ relatable
thank you for this thought provoking presentation. Wish I had heard this 57 years ago my world would have been more kinder, gentler, and peaceful.
I think for your classmate it was an opportunity for him to see something weak towards him, to feel sorry for it and the next day to distance himself from it. So many relationships are based on this dynamic, simply when we talk about adults, both parties have the same responsibility I'm beginning to believe that the majority of people have children for this very reason, to transfer their sorrow for their ``weakness'' and not to share it. The best conduit for that is a child..
you speak so simply and so purposefully without complex psychiatric terms that you touch the soul directly
THANK YOU ❤
When I was in Junior High somehow I got cornered a lot as a designated confidante for other students' home problems. Anyone can tell who 'sensitives' are and who are insensitive socially, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how some get assigned such a role. Also, not sure why it didn't happen as much in Elementary or High School as much as in Junior High, something to ponder perhaps.
Anyways, as someone who was there for others in a listening and holding space capacity plenty of times I want to state for the record that as a kid myself that, of course, I didn't have any wise words and special techniques. All I did offer was head nodding and basic responses like, "I get it." Some people found solace in that and some found it lacking. At the time, it didn't occur to me that I was being targeted for such a position because of how obvious my sensitive nature was to others that I was like a walking bulls eye. It's fascinating how people find ways to get their needs met by covert contracts... like I was just wordlessly conscripted to the job because it needed to get done and there I was with the requisite demeanor to fulfill it.
That boy was amazed by your truth. I knew this even before listening to the rest of the story... He probably would have wished to be as much in contact with his own feelings.
5:25 yes!!
Dan, another great chat 🤝. I love that you shared some opposite experiences on the topic and shared your ultimate preference/recommendation. Thank you for being such a refreshing person ☺️
There Is Nothing here like a Safe Person kid
It felt so useless sharing my thoughts in therapy after it ended. Like this person is just off with my vulnerabilities. I believe it might be used against me some how. Sure it's against confidentiality, but still.
What do you mean?
@@masterculturedunkerque7918 How weak I am in many ways. How many bad thing that has happened to me. My wants. My therapist wasn't good. I hated my time I spent with them.
@@roykalager2360Got a very weird expérience with a therapist. First female clinician psychologist I met in Women Center to treat a sexual trauma ptsd symptoms. She asked for a psychiatric backup I eventually achieved it on my own, I tried to vocalise what didnt suit me. She got defensive and she interrupted my therapy a month after by email without further discussion or preparation. I tried to reach for her help and she ghosted me, my condition gets worse and every provider I met defended her in some way. Til this day, I am worried about what she can do to retaliate against me as I tried to get some justice and accountability for her shitty behaviour. I felt rejected and humiliated by her
11:17 was a reminder that i needed, and is the reason why I'm working on my Narrative Identity. I need to understand the context in order to understand the emotions that accompany them.
What happens after you find a safe person? How does this relationship look like? What do you talk about? (I get that it has to be a reciprocal relationship, boundaries, trust... what then?)
even though those guys didn't do you right, you still did yourself right though. that's all that matters.
it's safe to completely ignore the other side when they enter a power dynamic.
Thank you for this really important and useful video! This is something we should learn early in life to avoid so much hurt and abuse.
Beautiful story. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Thank you so much, I needed to hear this
Thank you Daniel for sharing your experience. I can so relate. I struggle with trusting people that I can honestly and opening share with. I try my best to be honest with myself and my own feelings, but find it difficult to share with others without feeling shame.
I'm going Mad now also...
I love you and I hope we get the love we deserved as children. 🤦🏾♂️😔
Great vid. Thank you.
Very good video.