A big change I have noticed from HW3 to HW4 has been improved night visibility. On my 2022 MYP, using HW3 with FSD, I used to experience disengagements ALL THE TIME once it got too dark outside. That has completely gone away since getting a 2023 MYP using HW4. Recently, I had a 3.5-hour drive from 8:30pm-12am with no disengagement.
At 11:16, the truck's brake lights went on and off and FSD highlighted the truck like "lead vehicle". I think that's why is slowed. I would also have been wary that it might start to pull out. That was great caution by FSD, in my opinion.
11:35 I would be "afraid of the cars" too; like you can have a kid or a cat jumping out from between two cars; or you can have a door open in front of you... I'm always in a state of panic when driving next to parked cars. Even more so driving an electric car, which makes less noise, so people may not hear a car coming.
Yay finally, congrats! :D I recently sold my Model 3 SR+, and bought a 2020/21 Model S Long Range Plus, and misinterpeted the ad so it did NOT come with "FSD"..however here in Norway I don't really expect FSD super soon, so I guess I'll save up for it.. crossing my fingers the price doesn't increase again!
@@DirtyTesla You have a right to get frustrated. It is being sold as a product. Real money is involved. Any yet - lets be honest - it doesn't really work does it.
People are a little overly optimistic about V12 with that live-streamed demo drive, which was done in CA with very little traffic and easy roads. Who knows how well that will scale with different areas. It’ll likely only come next year at best and still be full of issues and scenarios it can’t handle.
I don't think most people think it will be perfect but it should automatically (by just adding more training videos) handle a lot of issues we see consistently happen without the FSD developers having to code a specific solution for it.
Love your great videos! Comments are meaningful and always helpful. FYI: I have also had an issue with the GPS. The car started generating the same diagnostic message your car has been getting. This went on for several weeks. Finally the GPS had the position of the car off by around 200 feet! My car was physically in my garage but the GPS had the car as being across the street. When I tried driving in FSD Beta the Navigation directions were trying to direct me to the highway I was already physically on. I put in a service request. Interestingly the next day the GPS was much closer to its correct location so Navigate on Autopilot was usable again. Today my car is in for service for the GPS issue and an air conditioning problem. Air conditioning quit when the outside temperature was at 97. Not fun.
If you have a USB hub in the glove box, try to remove it and see if the GPS works. Worked for me after Tesla service had my car for a week that is what they determined the issue was. Just partition a larger USB drive for Music and Video.
In the UK, all emergency services turn off sirens and hold back from red lights so they don't force drivers through the red light. Drivers don't have any exemption to drive through a red light for an emergency vehicle and would still get prosecuted, so emergency vehicles sit back and wait for a green light. My guess is that the fire truck was doing the same thing.
Very strange ! In Austria, the approach to handling emergency vehicles at red lights is quite different from the UK. Here, drivers are actually required to proceed through a red light, but only after coming to a complete stop and ensuring it is safe to do so. Failure to follow this procedure can result in a fine.
That's funny, because in Poland it's the exact opposite - you're supposed to get out of the way no matter what, and EMS definietly use that. (A fun sidenote: what probably helps are radiotransmitters in EMS vehicles - they can remotely force the upcoming intersection to go green for them! Same system is used by public transit too, buses and trams almost never wait at intersections. Unlike EMS, which forces an almost immediate green, public transit just requests it though - and the citywide Traffic Management System determines how to ensure maximum throughput by adjusting light timing accordingly.)
@@wojciechmuras553 They've trialled a similar system local to me in Newcastle, UK. We'd call it Intelligent Transport Systems. There's a UK white paper on the subject (lonf read). So far its been tested with some success.
@@DirtyTesla Hey now there's an interesting scenario test video idea. Find a quiet side street, and have your other Tesla parked on the side of the road. Conduct some experiments with FSD passing it with varying states of the car parked & off, on with tail lights, and with the wheels straight or turned
FSD seems to put random stopping lines into its calculated path, then proceeds to stop for them. Just to then notice there's nothing there, and it speeds up again. Really weird. I've seen that quite a few times in your videos and Chuck's as well.
I was a Paramedic and FF and they will never force you through an intersection if the light is red. If they turn off the siren and or lights at an intersection and you are behind them then stay put. Once the light turns green move over to the right and pull over if their lights are still on and they should start using their siren again. That being said, if you are coming up to a red light but still have time to move over a lane then do so and they will go through the red light. I have been using FSD on my 2023 Model 3 SR, my software is only on 11.3.6 not 11.4.4 but the mobile tech who came out to take care of a Pre-Delivery fix told me new vehicles can take several weeks before they receive new updates. FSD definitely has its limitations as of now, but as long as you pay attention and monitor it well I think it works fine until 12 comes out. I am on a 3 month free trial. I am surprised that they have not added pulling to the right when an emergency vehicle approaches, but maybe to many variables until AI in V12 is released to be more human like.
I've always known that any time emergency vehicle lights are on that the siren does not need to be blaring. If the lights are running then they are on a job. If the emergency is important enough then they will find a way around you whether you move or not. There are times, especially when you're in the left or middle lane you can't really move. Emergency vehicles will use the oncoming traffic lane(s) if they have to just to get through an intersection. They would also hit the siren prior to getting into the intersection if the emergency is important enough to get through the intersection sooner. It can also depend on other traffic in the area or even location. I'd say you did fine in the situation you experienced (in this video). Although the emergency lights were running, they didn't hit the siren until after getting through the intersection. You also didn't have anything you could really do without, well... running a red light.
I have been noticing very interesting artifacts with Hardware 4 + 11.4.4. Things like stopping at a stop sign twice, or steering into traffic before steering away and sometimes just stopping in the middle of an intersection happen every so often. Also I have noticed there are days where it is amazing and there are days where it is grumpy with previously mentioned side effects. All-in-all pretty amazing tech!
The question for me is, if FSD will be able to handle such situations with the firetruck in the future. The thing is, if it’s rainy, the backup camera is often blurred by some dirt and water. And as far as I know, the car has no extra outside microphone for recognizing the sirens of an emergency vehicle. So it will be very tough to recognize such a emergency vehicle with the current hardware in my opinion. Mercedes Benz as an example for a German OEM does have extra cameras, sensors and microphones on their new S-Class, to recognize such sitautions and pull over. That is one reason, why they received lvl4 capability on highwaystreets in Europe and america
It seems there is always something on the horizon (typically for the next end of year) Single Stack, V12 and AI, HW4, Dojo... I think they will get there but who knows when.
What you have to keep in mind is the rapid acceleration of technological advancements. As we continue the parabolic curve its going to continue to get better at a quicker pace.
I hope so. I made my living doing software development and the time it took to discover bugs increased exponentially during the testing phase. Since I was developing business software and we were not concerned with anyone dying from an undiscovered bug we stopped testing once everyone signed off that the software was good enough. @@VexGod
@@VexGod But it isn't! I've been watching these videos for a long time. No real improvements that make me think it is actually going to be able to actually self drive. Progress has dropped off. It is not even linear let alone parabolic.
@@chriswright9096that’s my feeling too! I think we are several years, maybe decades away from a true self driving car, which can handle ALL of the situations coming up!
LIDAR tech like Waymo, Cruise and Level 3+ autonomy for Mercedes approved in CA and NV as well as Honda Level 3/4 approved in Japan is the only way to correct smaller issues. There is no other way but by increasing redundancy
2:05 OK that was cool, you just pushed it through that without takeing over steering. Says alot for your level of trust in Beta. Funky but it dosent hit stuff.
v12 should solve the "hesitation/goofy" problem as real people don't hesitate like v11 does. intersections should improve drastically when v12 is released. no goofy in...no goofy out
Recently upgraded my Model Y to HW4 and am also running 11.4.4. No significant differences from HW3 IMO. Not surprised but was hoping there would be hardware improvement with the B-pillar camera lack of visibility at obstructed view intersections. I have several obstructed view intersections I have to disable FSD because bushes/trees block the intersection. I can resolve that by leaning way forward but FSD can't do that so no choice but to disable FSD. Still amazes me Tesla doesn't recognize this Achilles heal to FSD.
All your drives are useful, regardless of what version you're running or even if you're not using FSD at all - Tesla is training v12 from clips from the fleet, whatever you do.
At 11:17 the car was using logic I think. The van had its brake lights on and wheels turned outwards, kind of cool even with the wrong thought process.
I’m so happy to see that you’re seeing goofy behavior too, I had the impression that y’all were having very few issues. Outside of the system failure events it’s usually great on the highway.
At a minimum the car is gathering data at HW4 camera resolution instead of HW3. Raw Video fed into the data engine does not care (much) about what version of the software was running when the footage is captured. So, yes, there is a decent chance that at least some of your car's video is being preserved and included in the training corpus.
I love being able to see what improvements have come out for FSD since I do not own it yet but man... these videos are so hard to watch because they give me so much anxiety! Love it, though!
As a former EMT I will say that there are 3 different "codes" in emergency service. Code 1 is normal driving. Stop at yield/stop signs and red lights etc. Code 2: lights no siren, they run stop lights etc. if it looks safe. Code 3: lights and siren. Run lights etc. drive the wrong way on one way streets, expect traffic to yield. You should move to the right and the emergency vehicle will normally go left. Drive in the left turn lane etc. They need to get where they are going NOW. You did right by just sitting at the light until it turned green. The FD probably knew they had an emergency and were collecting info on where to go then went to code 3 once that info was delivered. It would be nice if Tesla and other EV's incorporated this into their autonomous driving software. Someone steals an EV and it pulls over when the siren goes off.
Simply recognizing emergency vehicles isn't going to be enough for FSD, obviously. It's going to have to know what to do under certain circumstances. If they're just there doing nothing, treat it like a normal car. If the lights and/or sirens are on, get out of the way/pull over. That's going to be hard for them to solve
I think here are some limitations due to the lack of sensors and cameras. I‘m driving a M3 for 6 months now and I’ve experienced the bad backwards visibility in rainy conditions through the backup camera all the time. The view is completely blurred 80% of the time. It will be hard for a software, to do the right thing, if the measured data (video, whatever) is not telling the truth or gives very bad inconsistent information.
Man it's so nice to see your having the same issues as I am lol. I'm new to your channel follow you on Twitter and this is exactly how I feel 😂. I post some videos of my driving in the same situations.. It just feels weird. I could go on and on but great video and look forward to watching more. Let me know if what you think of how my 2023 MDL 3 reacts too..
I wouldn't be surprised if the hardware 3 would be at its computational limit running this version (11.4.7 or whatever the current version is), but with HW4 and fsd 12 there might be enough compute power to fully utilize the distance the car can look if they don't do that already, IDK. I guess on V12 they do for sure because they give the raw photons as input.
V12 runs at full camera speed 36fps on HW3. The demo musk did recently was on a model S with HW3. They're not computationally limited in the vehicle, but rather on the training server, but not for too long. Meaning it's just taking longer than they want. Currently takes a month to train, within a year it'll be down to a week.
Hi Chris, thanks for the video! Great job as usual! One of my biggest disappointments is its inability to properly judge traffic lights switching to yellow/red and having it run red lights as a result. Like at 12:45 it ran a red. This is supposed to be one of the things a computer can do better than us humans, to judge whether or not to stop when the light turns yellow or if you should proceed, but it regularly fails to do it properly. There are obviously tons of other, more complicated things it messed up on in this video but it really needs to do the basics properly.
STILL WAITING for the download on my 2023 MY Hardware 4? Did the 1x transfer & shows I have it but I don’t have it YET as states it will come in a future download. The wait is torture! 😂
It seems to me that FSD could do a better job of “projecting” the deceleration of moving cars as they approach an intersection. It should know that the stopping point is not in the intersection and it can proceed more aggressively.
This may asound funny but this FSD video reminds me of when my wife is driving, I sit in the car and think "why isn't she going or why is she going now?" I guess no two people drive exactly like.
Nevermind just got pushed to me! I'll be waiting probably for 2 more weeks for v11.4.7 (2023.32.4+) to be pushed to me. I kinda miss FSD over EAP. Really better at staying in curves and such. I have 3 months free of FSD ticking away, Nav on AP kinda sucks. But assisted lane change is nice. Might buy EAP to cut down on FSD subscription.
Inside cam seems shakier than usual. I can think of 3 possible causes: 1. It just seems that way without the screen overlay. 2. New cam or stability disabled? 3. Rougher ride on those brutal roads. The roof cam looks great, but it likely has better stability software built in.
Yeah you're not the first to point that out. It is weird because in terms of stability nothing is different. But maybe missing the screen recording makes the shakiness of the main cam or apparent.
Thanks for the video. Yeah that is kind of interesting with all of you testing some version of FSD V 11.xxxx and know that there is going to be a better FSD V 12 and the coding won't be needed. Makes you wonder if your test drives are even being used at all for the new version 12. I now own a Model Y LR but I am not going to invest in FSD until I see more of where it is going. Plus the cost is very expensive for the average person. Will the cost go up when V 12 comes out??? Time shall Tell how this all rolls out and costs involved with it. I will never get Solar for my Tesla. That is also an expensive item for installs, for me anyway. Take care.
The attempted turn into the car park just after rerouting. I think the issue here was that it did not have directions on the map, I believe Musk said that without a map it can still navigate, it just sort of works it out. Makes me think that’s what the car was attempting to do, it knew where it wanted to go but didn’t have directions so it just made it up as it went. Got the first 2 roads fine but then mistook the entrance to the car park as a legitimate road going in the right sort of direction.
Nice video but the car performed horrible! To the point that you made a joke about it saying that you’re going home 😂 But be careful, I’d not try that in a school zone. I know that you didn’t even mean to be there.
Got HW4 Model Y on Aug. 11 in order to transfer FSD license. So far no FSD but after watching your video, perhaps I can wait for version 12. Two questions: (1) do you think Tesla will do parallel development of non-version 12 software until they are sure that vestion 12 is the solution? (2) My HW4 Model Y often displays many 'camera(s) blocked or degraded' warnings at night even when autopilot isn't engaged--have you experienced this? Thanks for all of your great videos!
I keep hearing various people saying the new ability in 11.4.6 that allows the car to maintain speed to match traffic when a speed limit changes is a highway only feature but that is not true. I have seen several cases on my car where this ability is triggered on standard roads as well. Have you not seen this activate on standard roads in your area? Maybe try finding a road that has something like a 45 or so speed limit and drops to 35 if there is one in your area.
I, like you, was excited to get FSDon my new model Y. However, it is not as good as the later versions. I hope it will get better soon as it is a little frustrating using it now. But FSD was always a future promise
Even if completely different software version, it's still video with the new camera's and the reports are interesting road situations, which can be annotated and included in the training set of any new version. Tesla will also need samples that are never used in training so they can be used for testing the trained models. Even when the old software has issues in situations that the new software handles well, they still need those samples to confirm that every new version can still handle those situations well. There really is no limit to how many video's of interesting road situations would be useful.
I've had a 23 MY for about a week. I don't have FSD, but I have tried the auto-steer and find it freaks out around cyclists even from very far away. I hope that is fixed soon!
I think they've almost abandoned work on V11. IMO V11 will be a tool for them to select data for V12. V12 doesn't know anything, lanes, stop signs, etc. How does it know if you stopped at a stop sign or not for them to include/exclude that clip from training? They need a system that will allow them to identify situations that need improving. My belief is that V11 will become that system. During the V12 livestream when it tried to go through the red light, V11 can identify similar situations with odd arrangements of stop lights. V11 can determine whether you came to a complete stop, how you behaved around this odd looking object in the road. V11 may not be able to drive well in every situation, but it can identify whether the path you took was a valid solution while avoiding close calls with VRUs. Now that it can (supposedly) identify emergency vehicles, that seems to be one of the last big missing pieces. Everything we've heard says they're all-in on V12, so V11 is only getting minor upgrades as they determine what they need to identify clips for V12.
So have you ever put a sign on the outside of the beta cars stating "Self driving car training in progress" to ease confusion from surrounding vehicles and pedestrians?
These v11 beta testing drives are kind of a moot point now that we know that v12 will be using an entirely different architecture. All the moves that v11 beta cars are making are courtesy of those hundred of thousands of lines of codes that are going away. But maybe the video training data that the V12 training AI is using can include v11 beta drives?
He probably got the dispatch and flipped his lights but didn’t have the destination yet so he waited until he was ready to go before doing sirens and driving for realsies
Thinking outside the box a bit, these impossible robo taxi situations might end up being signs of legitimate traffic blockers that need fixing. It would be great to have it actually get fixed, instead of the human way of “cheating” to make it work. As humans, we may just be more accepting of shortcomings and try to take the easy way out instead of doing things logically like fix the traffic problems. I know a lot of people will prefer the “cheating” method, especially for speeding, but probably doesn’t make as much sense as you think. A proliferation of robo taxis may not be as bad as you think if we’re solving the traffic issues in the process.
I am curious. I know cars on FSDb was involved in accidents caused by other drivers, but has FSDb ever been the cause of an accident? I wish I could afford a Tesla or even just that they were for sale in my country.
Could you please get a stabilizer on the camera you are using in the interior view? The shaking is making me nausious (or however you write it) hah. I ain't complaining, but consider it a request.
Yeah I have no idea what happened to my GoPro. Stabilization used to be great and just stopped… try this video and lmk how it is, thanks! ruclips.net/video/XXJoznuIEWA/видео.html
At 19:02 I feel you pushed it too much through the crossing. There were people walking across the crossing. I get why a human needs to go but legally you should wait. I wonder what FSD labellers would class this as a good interaction or a bad one to decide if FSD should train on it. No right answers here cars need to get places but as a pedestrian on a crossing I would be annoyed at a driver attempting to go on a crossing like that.
yeah, the heuristics just can't handle that level of decision making. It takes too long to make decisions and there are way too many hard coded exceptions that needed to be written in. v12 all nets should make smoother progress, hopefully.
Looks like FSD with Vs. 4 hardware can read traffic signs with 20/40 vision, as is required of ALL drivers in ALL 50 states. This now means FSD can read ALL posted traffic signs and emergency signs like "Bridge out - turn around NOW" Sadly HW3 can not read at a 20/40 vision test level...don't know what happens to us owners with it. What will the states allow - a near sighted self-driving Tesla roaming the streets?
Interesting fact on the emergency vehicles - how would FSD hear the siren? , I understand the cameras will pick up and recognise the lights flashing, as humans we hear the sirens first then take action to clear the road for them to proceed as fast as possible, just curious how this special condition uses audio (ears in humans 😂) , by the way your road surfaces are awful!
Did you already have either FSD purchased or the subscription in order to get Beta? I purchased my wife a HW4 2023 Model Y about a month ago and it came with 3 free months of FSD but she still doesn't have access to Beta. I'm wondering if she can't get it unless she actually subscribes first.
wait a second: you already gut HW4? i picked up my model Y roughly 3 weeks ago and the employees at the delivery hub were totally oblivious to any questions regarding this. They said they have heard rumours about soon to be rolled out new hardware but definitely does not exist yet and for sure not in my car.... yikes
I have never suggested someone become a patron, and I won't start now. But yes, many people have used my patron's referral links. Not that I can guarantee that'll happen. In the past you could click the link and see how many referrals they had, but Tesla changed the page so it's not public info anymore.
@@DirtyTesla Thank you for the reply. I enjoy your videos and have learned so much from you, such as the referral point acceleration boost and the complimentary installation of Model Y mud flaps and PPF. I have become a patron and look forward to your future FSD beta videos! Hopefully I'll get some referral credits in the meantime 😃
The beta program should be the same, the driving policy is already neural and they are trained by curating a dataset so nothing should change in that premise. ML just tries to figure everything out from scratch instead of specified local tasks in isolation. Like occupancy voxels and driving policy. Policy is a word used in computer science to mean the control algo. Just convention.
I have a model s hw4 on 2023.26.9. Been subscribed to fsd for around a week but not fsd yet. 11.4.4 is on 2023.26.11 but for some reason tesla isn’t rolling out to cars on my software version. Any ideas?
Now that Elon showed off version 12, what is the point of all these 11.xx updates? Seems like a waste of resources just keep it where it’s at until v12 comes out?
Your pedestrians need some FSW Beta 😂😂😂 'Pedestrians have the right of way' is way too widely thought to be the case when it is not. In most cross walks with stop signs the laws are that when approaching from a determined distance if there is a car at the stop sign you have to wait your turn. Bet one week of tickets for failure to yield to traffic tickets would clean that up. When I was in High School the school did it for J walking after a kid got hit (not bad) and it was the talk of the school. Everyone knew they better use the x walks or they would get a ticket. They only did it for a week solid and everyone stoped J walking.
I bought beta again, been about a week and no update, still stuck on 2023.26.9. So no, this is not what you'll get when you buy a new Y, no guarantees.
Speaking as a robotics engineer, Tesla's all-AI approach will probably prove to be better at handling the complexities of real-world driving than conventional rules-based programming (though a hybrid setup might be necessary to guarantee adherence to traffic laws). For one, I understand one of the common complaints with Tesla's software was that it had trouble with roundabouts - Elon Musk's V12 demo had it navigating a roundabout flawlessly. Yeah, it still needs work, but given that this is the first time anyone has attempted to do something like this with neural networks, they're doing pretty well.
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A big change I have noticed from HW3 to HW4 has been improved night visibility.
On my 2022 MYP, using HW3 with FSD, I used to experience disengagements ALL THE TIME once it got too dark outside. That has completely gone away since getting a 2023 MYP using HW4. Recently, I had a 3.5-hour drive from 8:30pm-12am with no disengagement.
Don't worry, HW v.5 will also work against the sun and during rain, once it brings back the radars. Sorry, could not help, don't mind me. :)
At 11:16, the truck's brake lights went on and off and FSD highlighted the truck like "lead vehicle". I think that's why is slowed. I would also have been wary that it might start to pull out. That was great caution by FSD, in my opinion.
Omg that last intersection was really painful to watch. 😅 Thanks for sharing a hw4 fsdbeta! 🎉
11:35 I would be "afraid of the cars" too; like you can have a kid or a cat jumping out from between two cars; or you can have a door open in front of you... I'm always in a state of panic when driving next to parked cars. Even more so driving an electric car, which makes less noise, so people may not hear a car coming.
Oh man, those roads! Like infinite rumble strips!
Yay finally, congrats! :D
I recently sold my Model 3 SR+, and bought a 2020/21 Model S Long Range Plus, and misinterpeted the ad so it did NOT come with "FSD"..however here in Norway I don't really expect FSD super soon, so I guess I'll save up for it.. crossing my fingers the price doesn't increase again!
Wow nice job on being so patient with the car!
Thanks... I tried... and failed a bit at the end 😂
@@DirtyTesla You have a right to get frustrated. It is being sold as a product. Real money is involved. Any yet - lets be honest - it doesn't really work does it.
People are a little overly optimistic about V12 with that live-streamed demo drive, which was done in CA with very little traffic and easy roads. Who knows how well that will scale with different areas. It’ll likely only come next year at best and still be full of issues and scenarios it can’t handle.
I don't think most people think it will be perfect but it should automatically (by just adding more training videos) handle a lot of issues we see consistently happen without the FSD developers having to code a specific solution for it.
Love your great videos! Comments are meaningful and always helpful. FYI: I have also had an issue with the GPS. The car started generating the same diagnostic message your car has been getting. This went on for several weeks. Finally the GPS had the position of the car off by around 200 feet! My car was physically in my garage but the GPS had the car as being across the street. When I tried driving in FSD Beta the Navigation directions were trying to direct me to the highway I was already physically on. I put in a service request. Interestingly the next day the GPS was much closer to its correct location so Navigate on Autopilot was usable again. Today my car is in for service for the GPS issue and an air conditioning problem. Air conditioning quit when the outside temperature was at 97. Not fun.
Mobile service came and was unable to fix it so I'm taking it in Thursday. I hope your car is fixed quick!
2023 (June) MYP HW4 Major GPS Issues for weeks now. Service oct 10th!? FSDb 11.4.4. Keep us posted on FiX ;) Thanx
If you have a USB hub in the glove box, try to remove it and see if the GPS works. Worked for me after Tesla service had my car for a week that is what they determined the issue was. Just partition a larger USB drive for Music and Video.
In the UK, all emergency services turn off sirens and hold back from red lights so they don't force drivers through the red light. Drivers don't have any exemption to drive through a red light for an emergency vehicle and would still get prosecuted, so emergency vehicles sit back and wait for a green light. My guess is that the fire truck was doing the same thing.
Very strange !
In Austria, the approach to handling emergency vehicles at red lights is quite different from the UK. Here, drivers are actually required to proceed through a red light, but only after coming to a complete stop and ensuring it is safe to do so. Failure to follow this procedure can result in a fine.
That's funny, because in Poland it's the exact opposite - you're supposed to get out of the way no matter what, and EMS definietly use that.
(A fun sidenote: what probably helps are radiotransmitters in EMS vehicles - they can remotely force the upcoming intersection to go green for them! Same system is used by public transit too, buses and trams almost never wait at intersections. Unlike EMS, which forces an almost immediate green, public transit just requests it though - and the citywide Traffic Management System determines how to ensure maximum throughput by adjusting light timing accordingly.)
@@wojciechmuras553 That is such a great idea! They should do that everywhere! Well done Poland for some fantastic forward thinking! 👍🏼
@@wojciechmuras553 They've trialled a similar system local to me in Newcastle, UK. We'd call it Intelligent Transport Systems. There's a UK white paper on the subject (lonf read). So far its been tested with some success.
@@wojciechmuras553 I wish every city had that! Crazy to see buses and emergency vehicles waiting at red lights all the time. C'mon, it's 2023 already!
11:15 I wonder if FSD braked because the van's tires were turned outward, indicating it's about to pull out into traffic. Interesting.
Good point
@@DirtyTesla Hey now there's an interesting scenario test video idea. Find a quiet side street, and have your other Tesla parked on the side of the road. Conduct some experiments with FSD passing it with varying states of the car parked & off, on with tail lights, and with the wheels straight or turned
FSD seems to put random stopping lines into its calculated path, then proceeds to stop for them. Just to then notice there's nothing there, and it speeds up again. Really weird. I've seen that quite a few times in your videos and Chuck's as well.
The NHTSA full stop requirement made them super sensitive to line, probably causing more false positives
That is true and interesting. V12 should make this much better then considering that won't be hard coded in.
I was a Paramedic and FF and they will never force you through an intersection if the light is red. If they turn off the siren and or lights at an intersection and you are behind them then stay put. Once the light turns green move over to the right and pull over if their lights are still on and they should start using their siren again. That being said, if you are coming up to a red light but still have time to move over a lane then do so and they will go through the red light. I have been using FSD on my 2023 Model 3 SR, my software is only on 11.3.6 not 11.4.4 but the mobile tech who came out to take care of a Pre-Delivery fix told me new vehicles can take several weeks before they receive new updates. FSD definitely has its limitations as of now, but as long as you pay attention and monitor it well I think it works fine until 12 comes out. I am on a 3 month free trial. I am surprised that they have not added pulling to the right when an emergency vehicle approaches, but maybe to many variables until AI in V12 is released to be more human like.
Been waiting for this video to see your thoughts. Pretty much the same experience I am have here
I've always known that any time emergency vehicle lights are on that the siren does not need to be blaring. If the lights are running then they are on a job. If the emergency is important enough then they will find a way around you whether you move or not. There are times, especially when you're in the left or middle lane you can't really move. Emergency vehicles will use the oncoming traffic lane(s) if they have to just to get through an intersection. They would also hit the siren prior to getting into the intersection if the emergency is important enough to get through the intersection sooner. It can also depend on other traffic in the area or even location. I'd say you did fine in the situation you experienced (in this video). Although the emergency lights were running, they didn't hit the siren until after getting through the intersection. You also didn't have anything you could really do without, well... running a red light.
I have been noticing very interesting artifacts with Hardware 4 + 11.4.4. Things like stopping at a stop sign twice, or steering into traffic before steering away and sometimes just stopping in the middle of an intersection happen every so often. Also I have noticed there are days where it is amazing and there are days where it is grumpy with previously mentioned side effects. All-in-all pretty amazing tech!
The question for me is, if FSD will be able to handle such situations with the firetruck in the future. The thing is, if it’s rainy, the backup camera is often blurred by some dirt and water. And as far as I know, the car has no extra outside microphone for recognizing the sirens of an emergency vehicle. So it will be very tough to recognize such a emergency vehicle with the current hardware in my opinion.
Mercedes Benz as an example for a German OEM does have extra cameras, sensors and microphones on their new S-Class, to recognize such sitautions and pull over. That is one reason, why they received lvl4 capability on highwaystreets in Europe and america
It seems there is always something on the horizon (typically for the next end of year) Single Stack, V12 and AI, HW4, Dojo... I think they will get there but who knows when.
What you have to keep in mind is the rapid acceleration of technological advancements. As we continue the parabolic curve its going to continue to get better at a quicker pace.
I hope so. I made my living doing software development and the time it took to discover bugs increased exponentially during the testing phase. Since I was developing business software and we were not concerned with anyone dying from an undiscovered bug we stopped testing once everyone signed off that the software was good enough. @@VexGod
@@VexGod But it isn't! I've been watching these videos for a long time. No real improvements that make me think it is actually going to be able to actually self drive. Progress has dropped off. It is not even linear let alone parabolic.
@@chriswright9096that’s my feeling too!
I think we are several years, maybe decades away from a true self driving car, which can handle ALL of the situations coming up!
LIDAR tech like Waymo, Cruise and Level 3+ autonomy for Mercedes approved in CA and NV as well as Honda Level 3/4 approved in Japan is the only way to correct smaller issues. There is no other way but by increasing redundancy
Next year June sounds good for a wide release. December snow and icy roads could increase accidents.
2:05 OK that was cool, you just pushed it through that without takeing over steering. Says alot for your level of trust in Beta.
Funky but it dosent hit stuff.
v12 should solve the "hesitation/goofy" problem as real people don't hesitate like v11 does. intersections should improve drastically when v12 is released. no goofy in...no goofy out
Goofy, yes. Also not human.
So will V86. :)
Hello goofy *yeaaaaahohohohoooooooiiiiii*
Recently upgraded my Model Y to HW4 and am also running 11.4.4. No significant differences from HW3 IMO. Not surprised but was hoping there would be hardware improvement with the B-pillar camera lack of visibility at obstructed view intersections. I have several obstructed view intersections I have to disable FSD because bushes/trees block the intersection. I can resolve that by leaning way forward but FSD can't do that so no choice but to disable FSD. Still amazes me Tesla doesn't recognize this Achilles heal to FSD.
All your drives are useful, regardless of what version you're running or even if you're not using FSD at all - Tesla is training v12 from clips from the fleet, whatever you do.
At 11:17 the car was using logic I think. The van had its brake lights on and wheels turned outwards, kind of cool even with the wrong thought process.
I’m so happy to see that you’re seeing goofy behavior too, I had the impression that y’all were having very few issues. Outside of the system failure events it’s usually great on the highway.
They didn't use their sirens to avoid pushing you through the intersection, likely a low priority call
At a minimum the car is gathering data at HW4 camera resolution instead of HW3. Raw Video fed into the data engine does not care (much) about what version of the software was running when the footage is captured.
So, yes, there is a decent chance that at least some of your car's video is being preserved and included in the training corpus.
I love being able to see what improvements have come out for FSD since I do not own it yet but man... these videos are so hard to watch because they give me so much anxiety! Love it, though!
As a former EMT I will say that there are 3 different "codes" in emergency service. Code 1 is normal driving. Stop at yield/stop signs and red lights etc. Code 2: lights no siren, they run stop lights etc. if it looks safe. Code 3: lights and siren. Run lights etc. drive the wrong way on one way streets, expect traffic to yield. You should move to the right and the emergency vehicle will normally go left. Drive in the left turn lane etc. They need to get where they are going NOW.
You did right by just sitting at the light until it turned green. The FD probably knew they had an emergency and were collecting info on where to go then went to code 3 once that info was delivered.
It would be nice if Tesla and other EV's incorporated this into their autonomous driving software. Someone steals an EV and it pulls over when the siren goes off.
Thank you! They were not even behind me, they were in the middle lane out of 3, but then turned left anyway, so your explanation sounds correct!
“High tolerance for this stuff…” Story of my fsd life.
Simply recognizing emergency vehicles isn't going to be enough for FSD, obviously. It's going to have to know what to do under certain circumstances. If they're just there doing nothing, treat it like a normal car. If the lights and/or sirens are on, get out of the way/pull over. That's going to be hard for them to solve
I think here are some limitations due to the lack of sensors and cameras. I‘m driving a M3 for 6 months now and I’ve experienced the bad backwards visibility in rainy conditions through the backup camera all the time. The view is completely blurred 80% of the time. It will be hard for a software, to do the right thing, if the measured data (video, whatever) is not telling the truth or gives very bad inconsistent information.
Man it's so nice to see your having the same issues as I am lol. I'm new to your channel follow you on Twitter and this is exactly how I feel 😂. I post some videos of my driving in the same situations.. It just feels weird. I could go on and on but great video and look forward to watching more. Let me know if what you think of how my 2023 MDL 3 reacts too..
11:18 yep, ignore park car which have lights on, so can move in your lane.
I know people who can't recognize you from a short distance due to their nearsightedness, but they drive flawlessly.
I wouldn't be surprised if the hardware 3 would be at its computational limit running this version (11.4.7 or whatever the current version is), but with HW4 and fsd 12 there might be enough compute power to fully utilize the distance the car can look if they don't do that already, IDK. I guess on V12 they do for sure because they give the raw photons as input.
V12 runs at full camera speed 36fps on HW3. The demo musk did recently was on a model S with HW3. They're not computationally limited in the vehicle, but rather on the training server, but not for too long. Meaning it's just taking longer than they want. Currently takes a month to train, within a year it'll be down to a week.
Hi Chris, thanks for the video! Great job as usual!
One of my biggest disappointments is its inability to properly judge traffic lights switching to yellow/red and having it run red lights as a result. Like at 12:45 it ran a red. This is supposed to be one of the things a computer can do better than us humans, to judge whether or not to stop when the light turns yellow or if you should proceed, but it regularly fails to do it properly. There are obviously tons of other, more complicated things it messed up on in this video but it really needs to do the basics properly.
Which production version were you on prior to your HW4 M-Y getting FSD Beta; the latest, or an old 2022 version, or something in between?
STILL WAITING for the download on my 2023 MY Hardware 4? Did the 1x transfer & shows I have it but I don’t have it YET as states it will come in a future download. The wait is torture! 😂
It seems to me that FSD could do a better job of “projecting” the deceleration of moving cars as they approach an intersection. It should know that the stopping point is not in the intersection and it can proceed more aggressively.
This may asound funny but this FSD video reminds me of when my wife is driving, I sit in the car and think "why isn't she going or why is she going now?" I guess no two people drive exactly like.
Yeah, that is a big part of people's problem with FSD. I'm not saying it drives perfect, but sometimes it just drives different
Nevermind just got pushed to me!
I'll be waiting probably for 2 more weeks for v11.4.7 (2023.32.4+) to be pushed to me. I kinda miss FSD over EAP. Really better at staying in curves and such. I have 3 months free of FSD ticking away, Nav on AP kinda sucks. But assisted lane change is nice. Might buy EAP to cut down on FSD subscription.
8:40- That would have probably confused me a bit too but it was quite a robot mistake.. V12 would definitely know better "All nets baby!"
Inside cam seems shakier than usual. I can think of 3 possible causes:
1. It just seems that way without the screen overlay.
2. New cam or stability disabled?
3. Rougher ride on those brutal roads.
The roof cam looks great, but it likely has better stability software built in.
Yeah you're not the first to point that out. It is weird because in terms of stability nothing is different. But maybe missing the screen recording makes the shakiness of the main cam or apparent.
@@DirtyTesla is there a change maybe to how you mount it? the old mount may have had a bit more flexibility to absorb the vibrations?
Thanks for the video. Yeah that is kind of interesting with all of you testing some version of FSD V 11.xxxx and know that there is going to be a better FSD V 12 and the coding won't be needed. Makes you wonder if your test drives are even being used at all for the new version 12.
I now own a Model Y LR but I am not going to invest in FSD until I see more of where it is going. Plus the cost is very expensive for the average person. Will the cost go up when V 12 comes out??? Time shall Tell how this all rolls out and costs involved with it.
I will never get Solar for my Tesla. That is also an expensive item for installs, for me anyway.
Take care.
The attempted turn into the car park just after rerouting. I think the issue here was that it did not have directions on the map, I believe Musk said that without a map it can still navigate, it just sort of works it out. Makes me think that’s what the car was attempting to do, it knew where it wanted to go but didn’t have directions so it just made it up as it went. Got the first 2 roads fine but then mistook the entrance to the car park as a legitimate road going in the right sort of direction.
Nice video but the car performed horrible! To the point that you made a joke about it saying that you’re going home 😂 But be careful, I’d not try that in a school zone. I know that you didn’t even mean to be there.
Got HW4 Model Y on Aug. 11 in order to transfer FSD license. So far no FSD but after watching your video, perhaps I can wait for version 12. Two questions: (1) do you think Tesla will do parallel development of non-version 12 software until they are sure that vestion 12 is the solution? (2) My HW4 Model Y often displays many 'camera(s) blocked or degraded' warnings at night even when autopilot isn't engaged--have you experienced this? Thanks for all of your great videos!
Curious what build you have. Bought a new 23 MY with 2023.26.9 build. Still waiting for Tesla to turn FSD Beta on.
I keep hearing various people saying the new ability in 11.4.6 that allows the car to maintain speed to match traffic when a speed limit changes is a highway only feature but that is not true. I have seen several cases on my car where this ability is triggered on standard roads as well. Have you not seen this activate on standard roads in your area? Maybe try finding a road that has something like a 45 or so speed limit and drops to 35 if there is one in your area.
You're right, my mistake.
I get that alarm too for no good reason!
I, like you, was excited to get FSDon my new model Y. However, it is not as good as the later versions. I hope it will get better soon as it is a little frustrating using it now. But FSD was always a future promise
Your reports can be used to train the AI model, so they're valuable regardless of how much code they delete:)
Even if completely different software version, it's still video with the new camera's and the reports are interesting road situations, which can be annotated and included in the training set of any new version. Tesla will also need samples that are never used in training so they can be used for testing the trained models. Even when the old software has issues in situations that the new software handles well, they still need those samples to confirm that every new version can still handle those situations well. There really is no limit to how many video's of interesting road situations would be useful.
I've had a 23 MY for about a week. I don't have FSD, but I have tried the auto-steer and find it freaks out around cyclists even from very far away. I hope that is fixed soon!
I think they've almost abandoned work on V11. IMO V11 will be a tool for them to select data for V12. V12 doesn't know anything, lanes, stop signs, etc. How does it know if you stopped at a stop sign or not for them to include/exclude that clip from training? They need a system that will allow them to identify situations that need improving. My belief is that V11 will become that system. During the V12 livestream when it tried to go through the red light, V11 can identify similar situations with odd arrangements of stop lights. V11 can determine whether you came to a complete stop, how you behaved around this odd looking object in the road. V11 may not be able to drive well in every situation, but it can identify whether the path you took was a valid solution while avoiding close calls with VRUs. Now that it can (supposedly) identify emergency vehicles, that seems to be one of the last big missing pieces. Everything we've heard says they're all-in on V12, so V11 is only getting minor upgrades as they determine what they need to identify clips for V12.
Dronequote needs to get their units straight... "Watts Used Per Hour" and "1 Kilowatt Hour (KwH) Cost (In Cents)" :)
Is it the best kind of traffic I have ever seen FSD tested in. I love seeing it work around humans. It gives me great hope for optimists
Years of the same. Seems to have no progress if you ask me
Should make the white edges smaller imho
Will do, ty
Another great video, if a little shaky. do you usually stabilize the car vid?
Nothing was different in regards to stabilization in this one so that's interesting
@@DirtyTesla I compare to your previous videos, definitely something going on in this video, lots of camera shake. Maybe it is a camera setting.
So have you ever put a sign on the outside of the beta cars stating "Self driving car training in progress" to ease confusion from surrounding vehicles and pedestrians?
I've put a student driver magnet on my trunk before. It keeps people back more. They anticipate my car to follow the rules.
These v11 beta testing drives are kind of a moot point now that we know that v12 will be using an entirely different architecture. All the moves that v11 beta cars are making are courtesy of those hundred of thousands of lines of codes that are going away. But maybe the video training data that the V12 training AI is using can include v11 beta drives?
It would be cool if the visuals labeled all other teslas with a T on top.
He probably got the dispatch and flipped his lights but didn’t have the destination yet so he waited until he was ready to go before doing sirens and driving for realsies
Thinking outside the box a bit, these impossible robo taxi situations might end up being signs of legitimate traffic blockers that need fixing. It would be great to have it actually get fixed, instead of the human way of “cheating” to make it work. As humans, we may just be more accepting of shortcomings and try to take the easy way out instead of doing things logically like fix the traffic problems. I know a lot of people will prefer the “cheating” method, especially for speeding, but probably doesn’t make as much sense as you think. A proliferation of robo taxis may not be as bad as you think if we’re solving the traffic issues in the process.
I am curious. I know cars on FSDb was involved in accidents caused by other drivers, but has FSDb ever been the cause of an accident? I wish I could afford a Tesla or even just that they were for sale in my country.
Go blue!
My guess is that Dirty Tesla will be making these videos for at least several more years.
Glad Tesla finally ditched the previous FSD approach and went with V12 approach..
Could you please get a stabilizer on the camera you are using in the interior view? The shaking is making me nausious (or however you write it) hah. I ain't complaining, but consider it a request.
Yeah I have no idea what happened to my GoPro. Stabilization used to be great and just stopped… try this video and lmk how it is, thanks!
ruclips.net/video/XXJoznuIEWA/видео.html
At 19:02 I feel you pushed it too much through the crossing. There were people walking across the crossing. I get why a human needs to go but legally you should wait. I wonder what FSD labellers would class this as a good interaction or a bad one to decide if FSD should train on it. No right answers here cars need to get places but as a pedestrian on a crossing I would be annoyed at a driver attempting to go on a crossing like that.
yeah, the heuristics just can't handle that level of decision making. It takes too long to make decisions and there are way too many hard coded exceptions that needed to be written in. v12 all nets should make smoother progress, hopefully.
Looks like FSD with Vs. 4 hardware can read traffic signs with 20/40 vision, as is required of ALL drivers in ALL 50 states. This now means FSD can read ALL posted traffic signs and emergency signs like "Bridge out - turn around NOW"
Sadly HW3 can not read at a 20/40 vision test level...don't know what happens to us owners with it. What will the states allow - a near sighted self-driving Tesla roaming the streets?
it can't roam anywhere, it can only go for a few miles before crashing dude
@@themodfather9382 I stand corrected - thank you.
Interesting fact on the emergency vehicles - how would FSD hear the siren? , I understand the cameras will pick up and recognise the lights flashing, as humans we hear the sirens first then take action to clear the road for them to proceed as fast as possible, just curious how this special condition uses audio (ears in humans 😂) , by the way your road surfaces are awful!
Did you already have either FSD purchased or the subscription in order to get Beta? I purchased my wife a HW4 2023 Model Y about a month ago and it came with 3 free months of FSD but she still doesn't have access to Beta. I'm wondering if she can't get it unless she actually subscribes first.
It should come to the car... I'd message service and ask honestly, it is something you were told you'd get
wait a second: you already gut HW4? i picked up my model Y roughly 3 weeks ago and the employees at the delivery hub were totally oblivious to any questions regarding this. They said they have heard rumours about soon to be rolled out new hardware but definitely does not exist yet and for sure not in my car.... yikes
If you got a y it's HW4. Look at your cameras, if red, it's HW4 ruclips.net/video/Odu9O4MhfW0/видео.htmlsi=e-vcY29KsromKEH3
Woohoo!
Can’t wait for FSD to fix the emergency vehicle issue only to pull over for a construction vehicle with flashing “emergency” lights.
These 11.4.x versions are much more goofy than 11.3.6 was!
The actual V11 testing may not be that valuable but you’re still shipping video back to the FSD guys which is useable for the V12 development.
MYLR KARR went from the 5-year-old FSD stack (paid the 15k two months ago) that I called Zombie and now with FSDb 11.4.4 is Possessed! LOL.
In Berlin Europe, we have HW4?
Were you aware that dashcam files that were 36 FPS with HW3 are 24 FPS on HW4?
Didn't notice, thanks.
Do people use your Patron’s referral link? Debating to join the full self driving membership.
I have never suggested someone become a patron, and I won't start now. But yes, many people have used my patron's referral links. Not that I can guarantee that'll happen. In the past you could click the link and see how many referrals they had, but Tesla changed the page so it's not public info anymore.
@@DirtyTesla Thank you for the reply. I enjoy your videos and have learned so much from you, such as the referral point acceleration boost and the complimentary installation of Model Y mud flaps and PPF. I have become a patron and look forward to your future FSD beta videos! Hopefully I'll get some referral credits in the meantime 😃
The beta program should be the same, the driving policy is already neural and they are trained by curating a dataset so nothing should change in that premise. ML just tries to figure everything out from scratch instead of specified local tasks in isolation. Like occupancy voxels and driving policy. Policy is a word used in computer science to mean the control algo. Just convention.
I have a model s hw4 on 2023.26.9. Been subscribed to fsd for around a week but not fsd yet. 11.4.4 is on 2023.26.11 but for some reason tesla isn’t rolling out to cars on my software version. Any ideas?
Took 3 weeks after I picked up my new X to get FSD, and that was after I asked Tesla for it thru Service in the app. Try that.
I guarantee you that your 11.4 reports are still totally valid for 12.
Now that Elon showed off version 12, what is the point of all these 11.xx updates? Seems like a waste of resources just keep it where it’s at until v12 comes out?
What version software, not FSD version?
2023.26.11
@@DirtyTesla
Downloading 2023.32.4 FSD 11.4.4 on my 2023 MY that I bought and transferred FSD from my 2020 M3.
@@DirtyTesla I would give a pic of the download version but don’t know how to send pics here.
Is the suspension worth upgrading too?
The suspension is way better. Worth the entire price of a new car? I dunno about all that haha
@DirtyTesla yeah I don't really need it but I'm always feeling like I'm missing out. I got my car right before the update to the suspension so 🤷
@@DirtyTeslaAgree. Maybe biggest and best improvement in new X is the suspension. Quiet, firm, much smoother over speed bumps, etc.
I'll be honest... I'll probably be as bad as FSD with all the people everywhere... I had downtown... people jaywalking etc. lol
Your pedestrians need some FSW Beta 😂😂😂
'Pedestrians have the right of way' is way too widely thought to be the case when it is not. In most cross walks with stop signs the laws are that when approaching from a determined distance if there is a car at the stop sign you have to wait your turn.
Bet one week of tickets for failure to yield to traffic tickets would clean that up. When I was in High School the school did it for J walking after a kid got hit (not bad) and it was the talk of the school. Everyone knew they better use the x walks or they would get a ticket. They only did it for a week solid and everyone stoped J walking.
Aaaaah, the statistics in the end is not visible due to overlayed video recommendations.
I'll delete them ty
Sitting here in Oregon still waiting for FSD on my new Model Y to be available.
Sigh!......(fingers drumming on table)
Hey there, fellow Oregonian!
@@deej628 Howdy!
I bought beta again, been about a week and no update, still stuck on 2023.26.9. So no, this is not what you'll get when you buy a new Y, no guarantees.
That's weird, I'd ask service as it should come to your car
Ask and you shall receive! Just contacted general support, and an hour later was prompted to update.
Speaking as a robotics engineer, Tesla's all-AI approach will probably prove to be better at handling the complexities of real-world driving than conventional rules-based programming (though a hybrid setup might be necessary to guarantee adherence to traffic laws). For one, I understand one of the common complaints with Tesla's software was that it had trouble with roundabouts - Elon Musk's V12 demo had it navigating a roundabout flawlessly. Yeah, it still needs work, but given that this is the first time anyone has attempted to do something like this with neural networks, they're doing pretty well.
I feel like the code is causing almost all the current problems. 11.4.7 is a lot better but I hate the clear hard codded reactions.
did anyone count how many times 'stupid' was mentioned in this vid?
👍
I don't see your "report" button.
Because I don't have it on this car