DM: Spent the campaign setting up Tharizdun as the secret evil power behind all the baddies The Party: Captured and interogated one of the cultists who reveals the Chained God's goals to destroy the whole multiverse. The Fighter turned to the party and said, "No Donny , these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of."
@@josephfernandez8015 like the abyss, it depends on how close you are to tharizdun's pad (paterson) I guess, I'm across the bridge from it, it's not so bad, though every once in a whole you might be listening to gunshots instead of the popping of the engine of a drag racing car or fireworks, but you'll never know unless you watch the news the next morning... we have decent food even if everyone likes to shit on us for making disco fries and claiming poutine is superior and we stole it (first off no we didn't, poutine uses curds, we use straight up cheese, I'm not saying it isn't better though, it's just... I like my discount poutine sometimes, it wasn't mean to be frou frou food to begin with, it's comfy -comfort food-, let it be comfy dammit) and we also have some nice pockets of scenery like some appalachian mountains and some historic residences, I've got three historic landmarks right in my town not even an hour's walk away from my house, on's like seven blocks away, even if a lot of it is NY's dumpster. So yes, we are the abyss, but some of mount celestia peeks through anyway...
According Gygax's Gord the Rogue Series; Tharizdun gets released into Greyhawk only to be tricked into an eternal struggle on another plane with Entropy itself by Gord which represented the end times of the Greyhawk setting, and Gord went to a sister plane of Oerth called Earth. The parallel planes of Oerth were Arth, Earth, Irth, Oerth, Urth, and sometimes Yrth. When I told my niece this she said, "That sounds so made up!" I said, "Well, yeah. All these things are made up from a certain point of view." Btw if you are curious about the series. Don't. Don't read them. Don't look for them. You'll thank me. If you must then at least start with Book 6' "Sea of Death", at which point the series not only becomes bearable but actually interesting. On a side note; Tharizdun is also the subject of one of the D&D Cartoon's from the 80's.
Are you talking about Vengors master, the whirlwind of energy accidentally released by the cavalier? He is never named, but I always thought of him as Tharizdun.
Perfect timing - I'm running a Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign and have decided to change the Salvage Operation adventure to feature the Cult of the Chained God instead. Thanks for the great info!
It's also worth noting that the last few "Gord the Rogue" books by Gary Gygax also deal with Tharizdun quite explicitly, and his version diverges quite significantly from the later WotC-derived lore.
I like to think that Tharizdun realized how awful the Obereths really were which is why he tried to control them and failing that his madness has led him to believe that the only option left is to destroy the whole universe. He's trying to be a good guy, but...you know...crazy logic.
Tharizdun must be the D&D inspiration for Sargeras in World of Warcraft - a god that seeks to save the Universe/Multiverse from it's own failings - by destroying it.
@@WhatWillYouFind Ra's al Ghul. He literally has Ra's al Ghul's motivation that he's had since the 70's, the Marvel studios people just didn't want to use Thanos' comic book motivation: simpery over Death, and chose instead to just transplant Ra's's personality and motivation but make it universal instead of limited to just Earth.
The Elder Elemental Eye made an appearance in the 1st Edition AD&D G3 Fire Giants module. It seemed that the Drow in the module were affiliated with the Eye, but by the time the adventure leads to D3 Vault of the Drow, Lolth is introduced as the Drow's patron. The Elder Elemental Eye angle was inexplicitly dropped.
I think Gygax stated (ca 2002) that he never intended Tharizdun and Elder Elemental Eye to be the same entity (at least that's what is said on the wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharizdun).
I have a idea for a new video. According to the dnd 5e monster manual, only 24 solars, powerful angels, exist. You could make a video about the solar and describe all 24 in detail.
Tharizdun is actually a key component of my home campaign. 4 out of the 6 players I have are noobs (sorcerer, wizard, monk, & fighter) and one of my players wrote an ambitious backstory where he 'absorbed' the Elder Elemental Eye. Normally, I would outlaw a backstory so OP, but I wasn't gonna throw away a chance to hit my players with the Chained Oblivion! The other two players (cleric & rogue) caught on quick and realized how deep the party was in trouble. It makes for some great tension & roleplay with the cleric acting as a advisor and the rest of the party (the bunch of chaotic fools they are) growing from trash gremlins into some legit heroes. Hope they can stop him :)
Perfect. My high-level players just became aware of some far realm entities are working towards the release of Tharizdun in my campaign to facilitate the destruction of the player character's home sphere. You just provided a fantastic starting point for me if they choose to look into this hook.
Thank you so much for this lore dump! I had no idea POTA was standing on the shoulders of older published works. If that 1e conversion is released please do link it.
Was planning on using Tharizdun as my BBEG in my Wildemount campaign. Happy I’ve gotten all this context to flesh the villain and who he’d reach out to in order to gain his power!
hi all, there is a reddit post about funny D&D stories, one of them was about an evil party and they were conquering the world, the final battle was in a big city (like WaterDeep or Baldurs Gate), Elminster was there fighting agains the party... and, one of the players was an evil cleric, that wanted to unleash Tharizdun... and he did. The DM just closed the book and said, ok the campaign is over. If someone has the link please share it, it was an awesome post to read.
I'm told there are mixed messages as to whether Tharizdun and the Elder Elemental Eye are actually the same being. They seem to have different divine Domains...Tharizdun has Death, Evil, and Force, which don't really line up with the element thing.
Great video as always Jorphdan! Glad to have your lore video cover Tharizdun. Always wanted to use this god for my warlock's plans. And with your help now one step closer.
Recently (Jan 30/21) Goodman Games announced that the updated Temple of Elemental Evil will be coming in August 2021 and it will be two hardcover books!
There may be some missing lore: in 4e, during the Essentials Revival attempt, they released “Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale”, which included creatures created by the Voidharrow through an Abyssal Plague. It was then used as a worlds-spanning event that impacted the core setting, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, and potentially others. It spawned six novels, a D&D Encounters campaign, and I believe two articles in Dragon Magazine from that time. I loved the abyssal plagues story line, and would love to see it formally reintroduced to 5e. I’m actually running a campaign involving the Voidharrow and the Abyssal Plague in my home brew setting.
Nicely done. I'm looking to run a homebrew game revolving around a evil/corrupted druid. Tharizdun "Elder Element Eye" sounds like a great source for fleshing out the details! Keep up the great work!
THARIZDUUUN!!! A deep lore! Long have I sought this! I feel it is so much more compelling than 5e Avernus and the vague Shadowfell combined! There is a sense of doom there that does not sleep!
Great timing! Tharizdun is one of the plot threads in campaign that I'm running and so far most of my research has been from Greyhawk Online. And now one of my players has finally gotten his character's backstory to me after a year and a half and it involves the archfey the Queen of Air and Darkness, who I read in one source was corrupted by Tharizdun. Would you be able to do a lore video on the Queen of Air and Darkness at some point?
So how do the Gord of Greyhawk books factor in to this? In those books Gord eventually frees Tharizdun so that he can destroy him, but fails and Oerth and Greyspace fall to the demons. In the process Gord is killed but is resurrected in another prime plane. Greyspace is sealed off with Tharizdun and the Lord of Entropy inside, with the intention that they will be destroyed when Greyspace collapses at the end of time.
Thanks for yet another great video! Wasn't even aware of Tharizdun until now, super interesting. Also like how you are using and playing with the new video format. 👌🏻
i played temple of elemental evil when my friends and i found his dad's books in the garage. I HAD to buy the goodman games republishing and conversion. such good times :)
Tharizdun Origins The multiverse itself gained sentience and split into order (the Prime Creator) and chaos (Tharizdun and the Shard of Pure Evil). This emphasizes the eternal conflict between stability and entropy while adding a deeply philosophical layer to the nature of existence in the multiverse. Let’s break this down further and explore its implications. 1. The Multiverse as a Sentient, Unified Entity In the beginning, the multiverse existed as a primordial, chaotic whole, unstructured and undefined. This state is not just a raw potential for creation-it is also alive and sentient. The Nature of This Sentience: The multiverse, as a single being, embodies both order and chaos, two opposing but inseparable aspects of existence. Over time, the multiverse realizes that its chaotic instability threatens to unravel its existence. To preserve itself, it takes the monumental step of splitting into its two fundamental aspect Order: The orderly, stable elements become the Prime Creator, embodying the will to create, structure, and nurture existence. Chaos: The unstable, destructive elements are cast off, forming the chaotic entities that cannot exist within the ordered framework. These include Tharizdun (sentient chaos) and the Shard of Pure Evil (raw destructive force). Why the Split Was Necessary: The multiverse could not sustain both order and chaos within a single consciousness. The tension between these opposing forces would have led to total self-destruction. By dividing itself, the multiverse ensured its survival-but at a cost: it became fragmented, creating the very separation Tharizdun now seeks to undo. 2. Tharizdun as Chaos Incarnate Tharizdun is not simply a god or an external force-it is the personification of the chaotic aspect of the multiverse, severed from its counterpart in the Prime Creator. Tharizdun’s Nature: Incomplete: Tharizdun, as a fragment of the original whole, is inherently unstable. It exists in a constant state of longing for reunification, driven by an instinctive need to return to its source. Destructive: Without the balance of order, Tharizdun’s chaotic nature becomes unbridled. It cannot create, only destroy, as it sees creation itself as a barrier to reunification. Madness: The longer Tharizdun exists in isolation, the more its instability grows, driving it deeper into madness. Its longing for the Prime Creator becomes an obsession, warping its perspective into a singular goal: undoing the separation of order and chaos. The Role of the Shard of Pure Evil: The Shard of Pure Evil is another fragment of the original chaotic multiverse, embodying pure, unfiltered entropy. When Tharizdun discovers and absorbs the Shard, it amplifies its chaotic nature, making it far more powerful but also far more unstable. This union transforms Tharizdun into an even greater threat, as it becomes a being of nearly limitless destructive potential. 3. Tharizdun’s Goal: Undoing the Split Tharizdun’s ultimate goal is to reunite with the Prime Creator and restore the multiverse to its original unified state. However, this reunification requires the undoing of the separation, which would annihilate all of creation. Why Tharizdun Seeks Reunification: Existential Pain: Tharizdun’s very existence as a fragment causes it immense suffering. It views its chaotic nature as a curse and believes that only by reuniting with the Prime Creator can it find peace. Inherent Instinct: As a piece of the original multiverse, Tharizdun is bound by an instinctive need to return to the whole, much like a puzzle piece seeks its place in the larger picture. Misguided Perspective: Tharizdun equates the multiverse’s structure-its planes, gods, and mortals-as the “walls” that separate it from the Prime Creator. In its madness, it believes destroying these structures will allow it to reunite with its source. The Method of Undoing: To undo the separation, Tharizdun must dismantle the framework of creation itself: Destroying the Material Plane, where mortals thrive and fuel the gods through worship. Collapsing the Outer Planes, including the realms of the gods, as these are the expressions of order. Returning the multiverse to a state of pure, chaotic potential where no barriers exist between order and chaos. 4. The Prime Creator’s Role The Prime Creator, as the embodiment of order, represents the opposite of Tharizdun’s chaotic nature. However, it may also share a deep connection with its cast-off fragment. Why the Prime Creator Does Not Intervene: Impartiality: The Prime Creator may see Tharizdun’s existence as part of a necessary balance. While destructive, Tharizdun’s actions are a counterbalance to creation. A Test for Creation: The Prime Creator might view Tharizdun as a test for the multiverse, a force that challenges mortals and gods to preserve existence against entropy. The Potential for Reunion: Tharizdun’s goal of reunification is not inherently evil-it is a distorted desire for completeness. The Prime Creator may be the only being capable of offering Tharizdun peace, but doing so would require a solution that avoids the destruction of the multiverse. 5. Narrative and Thematic Implications A Tragic Villain: Tharizdun is not purely a malevolent force-it is a being trapped by its own nature, seeking wholeness but unable to achieve it without causing immense destruction. The Balance of Creation and Destruction: The split between order and chaos highlights the necessity of balance in the multiverse. Tharizdun’s story underscores the dangers of imbalance, as chaos without order leads to madness, while order without chaos leads to stagnation. Mortals as Protectors of Balance: Mortals, as creations of the structured multiverse, become the ultimate defenders against Tharizdun’s attempts to unmake existence. Their actions determine whether balance can be preserved or whether chaos will prevail.
Tharizdun is possibly one of my favorite D&D villains. I'm not sure of the sources, but I remember a version of Tharizdun who had more complex motivations and personality. His world view being that there should be a Separation between Gods and Mortals, creating the Astral Dreadnaughts as a way to keep Mortals out of the divine realms. He sees the universe of DnD as inherently flawed (due to the concept of Time and that things will eventually die), so he wants to get rid of the current universe and replace it with a new Everlasting one. TL:DR Tharizdun became a God of Decay and Destruction so he can create a new world that has no Decay and Destruction
i've been wondering. Haven't played much in a long while, but i like to keep up with the lore. Given the happenings "lately" in the Realms, are the writers setting up for a future Cosmic Upheaval (Edition change)? This is pieced together from several conversations over years, i'll try to keep it short but coherent. Shar is not just just Darkness and Shadow, she is Oblivion. She is the absence (end) of all things. She doesn't just want to rule everything, she wants to destroy (unmake) it all. She orchestrated the assassination of Mystra using power borrowed from Outsiders to prevent Mystra (and even Ao) from stopping it. Why? And how? Has Shar been listening to the whispers of Tharizdun for centuries? Being badgered until he started "making sense"? Or possibly, did she find the Shard in her delving of the Shadow, exploring where none others would even care to go, and getting instructions from Other whispers? Certainly i could go further, but that would take pages of space. After watching this video, it made me think of why a goddess would behave in a way to threaten the existence of her own sphere.
Love the Abyss image. I'm originally from New Jer, sorry, the Abyss, and that couldn't be more spot on. It's like all the horrors, chaos, and evil rolled into one, just without the 666 layers. All the better to torment you......
Gonna put a few quotes from a certain game designer Discord I am part of here, because I feel it describes Tharizdun's essence very well "Tharizdun has more in common with cosmic horror, the corruptive aspects of evil, the death of virtue, and the slide of hope, joy, love, and wonder into a sort of sucking despair that can only be slaked by visiting your own ruin upon others" "Yeenoghu exists because it'd be weird if he didn't. "Senseless, purposeless, sustained violence" is a classic, undeniable CE idea Not having the all-time champion of it someplace would be a nagging gap Tharizdun exists for the same reason: he has to What goes up must come down All that is must eventually be not If divinity expresses human experience, Thari is the inescapable truth of entropy But he's also in a f****** box for that same reason All must end... But not today"
Love the NJ graphic. Since I was born and raised there I can confirm. It is definitely the Abyss. Luckily I was able to escape and flee far away when I turned 18 way back in the day. LOL
The first to capture the shard of evil was oboxob. After he was sundered, the title passed to mishka the wolf spider who was defeated. At which point demogorgon claimed the title.
im a fan of Cyric the Mad God, and this history mirrors the story of Cyric very much. Tharizdun and Cyric both exist in the Forgotten Realms, with similar histories, is this just an over sight by some of the writers? Did they plan on coping large elements of Tharizdun to make the Cyric story?
Of course he ended up in the Forgotten Realms. Everything does. *sigh* Oh well, at least if Wizards continues to ignore the actual good campaign settings they own then they can't do any more damage to their lore, and it's not like Forgotten Realms can become any more of a mess.
Your Greyhawk " Campaign Setting " Handbook has a different cover than I remember seeing? Were there more than? Is Tharizdun the Eye of Gruumpsh, God of bugbear, hobgoblins, and kobolds ( 2nd Edition Ad &d, Book of Races, or Dieties and Demigods ?)
If Tolkien earned a penny everytime someone copied from him he would be richier than Bezos and Tesla combined. Cant belive how many times his gods, ideas, monster and creatures have been adapted to other franchises.
I'm making a story where the Celestials have locked up an Abyssal god at the top of Mount Celestia. They'd say the Abyssal God is at the bottom of the infinite abyss, but it's actually at the top of Mount Celestia, the other side of the cosmological world. I wouldn't trust demons or devils to keep an eye on literal evilness. To put it mildly, I've been looking for a god, how he escaped Mount Celestia, and what is he up to. I might use Tharizdun, sounds like the King of Demons, and an interesting guy. Maybe the chains were made by the kings and queens of the elemental Chaos, and each chain is broken if their children are killed(or how one chain is "the prince of elemental fire ought to cry for this chain to be destroyed). That's why he wants to corrupt the princes of the elements, to send them to their deaths.
I believe Tharizdun is in the background of the second gord the rogue novel by Gary gygax, where Gord is looking for one of the 3 parts of an artiffact that could free Tharizdun.( I read the novel a while back, so please correct me if I am wrong)
Not gonna lie all those nicknames for Tharizdun sound metal as fuck.
THARIZDUN is metal AF, everyone just forgot
Guy's STD created the Abyss. He is metal AF.
It was the 80s, so yeah…
Imagine being so op and destructive that you get time out outside of the universe
That would be what happened to Morgoth/Melkor from LotR lore, so it has precedence.
DM: Spent the campaign setting up Tharizdun as the secret evil power behind all the baddies
The Party: Captured and interogated one of the cultists who reveals the Chained God's goals to destroy the whole multiverse.
The Fighter turned to the party and said, "No Donny , these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of."
I didn’t see that coming but great reference
"We believe in NOTHING"
The dude abides
"The worst place in the multi-verse, The Abyss *shows picture of New Jersey*" I mean.....you're not wrong...
Live here, very true.
I also live in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey and I also can confirm this is true.
Come on it’s not THAT bad...we did just get legal weed.
@@josephfernandez8015 like the abyss, it depends on how close you are to tharizdun's pad (paterson) I guess, I'm across the bridge from it, it's not so bad, though every once in a whole you might be listening to gunshots instead of the popping of the engine of a drag racing car or fireworks, but you'll never know unless you watch the news the next morning... we have decent food even if everyone likes to shit on us for making disco fries and claiming poutine is superior and we stole it (first off no we didn't, poutine uses curds, we use straight up cheese, I'm not saying it isn't better though, it's just... I like my discount poutine sometimes, it wasn't mean to be frou frou food to begin with, it's comfy -comfort food-, let it be comfy dammit) and we also have some nice pockets of scenery like some appalachian mountains and some historic residences, I've got three historic landmarks right in my town not even an hour's walk away from my house, on's like seven blocks away, even if a lot of it is NY's dumpster. So yes, we are the abyss, but some of mount celestia peeks through anyway...
You guys should visit China
Tharizdun is my favourite god, he's so evil and deranged that it's kind of endearing.
User name checks out...
Have you seen the yellow sign?
He is like an old senile grandpa.
@@beckaldo8741 Exactly
And not completely deranged either. He's got an actual personality and character to him, with beliefs about the world and an end goal.
Jorphdan: Tharizdun is about to make a comeback.
Me: (looks at critical role) yeah, sounds 'bout right
Tharizdun is where D&D goes Lovecraft.
Let's be honest, he's basically discount Azatoth.
then wahts the Far Realm?
Or Atropus...or...
There is a ton of Lovecraft in D&D...they literally had Dagon.
@@StarFyreXXX Plateau of Leng + Dreamlands
@@StarFyreXXX basically anything outside Solar System, so Keroro The Sergeant Frog is qualified
According Gygax's Gord the Rogue Series; Tharizdun gets released into Greyhawk only to be tricked into an eternal struggle on another plane with Entropy itself by Gord which represented the end times of the Greyhawk setting, and Gord went to a sister plane of Oerth called Earth. The parallel planes of Oerth were Arth, Earth, Irth, Oerth, Urth, and sometimes Yrth. When I told my niece this she said, "That sounds so made up!" I said, "Well, yeah. All these things are made up from a certain point of view." Btw if you are curious about the series. Don't. Don't read them. Don't look for them. You'll thank me. If you must then at least start with Book 6' "Sea of Death", at which point the series not only becomes bearable but actually interesting. On a side note; Tharizdun is also the subject of one of the D&D Cartoon's from the 80's.
Are you talking about Vengors master, the whirlwind of energy accidentally released by the cavalier? He is never named, but I always thought of him as Tharizdun.
@@temmy9 Yes. If I recall he is referred to as "he who must not be named", which is often used to refer to Tharizdun.
@@agemmemnon100 I agree. That was a cool representation of him too. scared the shit out of me as a kid.
I love those novels and bought all of them about 3 years ago 🖤
Perfect timing - I'm running a Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign and have decided to change the Salvage Operation adventure to feature the Cult of the Chained God instead. Thanks for the great info!
It's also worth noting that the last few "Gord the Rogue" books by Gary Gygax also deal with Tharizdun quite explicitly, and his version diverges quite significantly from the later WotC-derived lore.
I like to think that Tharizdun realized how awful the Obereths really were which is why he tried to control them and failing that his madness has led him to believe that the only option left is to destroy the whole universe. He's trying to be a good guy, but...you know...crazy logic.
Tharizdun must be the D&D inspiration for Sargeras in World of Warcraft - a god that seeks to save the Universe/Multiverse from it's own failings - by destroying it.
I wonder what Thanos was based off.
@@WhatWillYouFind Ra's al Ghul. He literally has Ra's al Ghul's motivation that he's had since the 70's, the Marvel studios people just didn't want to use Thanos' comic book motivation: simpery over Death, and chose instead to just transplant Ra's's personality and motivation but make it universal instead of limited to just Earth.
Even if he is a god, he can't escape from his prolate spheroid. That's where the warlock patron angle comes in. XD
The Elder Elemental Eye made an appearance in the 1st Edition AD&D G3 Fire Giants module. It seemed that the Drow in the module were affiliated with the Eye, but by the time the adventure leads to D3 Vault of the Drow, Lolth is introduced as the Drow's patron. The Elder Elemental Eye angle was inexplicitly dropped.
Finally some greyhawk lore.
All these faerun youngins' just don't know
I think Gygax stated (ca 2002) that he never intended Tharizdun and Elder Elemental Eye to be the same entity (at least that's what is said on the wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharizdun).
Just wanted to add - Tharizdun is also a part of the Points of Light(the default 4e setting) campaign setting
We don't talk about fourth, Morty...
@@tehfiredog Points of Light is a great campaign setting... It doesn't have to be mechanically attached to 4e
I have a idea for a new video. According to the dnd 5e monster manual, only 24 solars, powerful angels, exist. You could make a video about the solar and describe all 24 in detail.
As someone from New Jersey, thats fair
Tharizdun is actually a key component of my home campaign. 4 out of the 6 players I have are noobs (sorcerer, wizard, monk, & fighter) and one of my players wrote an ambitious backstory where he 'absorbed' the Elder Elemental Eye. Normally, I would outlaw a backstory so OP, but I wasn't gonna throw away a chance to hit my players with the Chained Oblivion! The other two players (cleric & rogue) caught on quick and realized how deep the party was in trouble.
It makes for some great tension & roleplay with the cleric acting as a advisor and the rest of the party (the bunch of chaotic fools they are) growing from trash gremlins into some legit heroes. Hope they can stop him :)
I placed the lost temple of Tharizdun in my Revonar Campaign and it was awesome.
Perfect. My high-level players just became aware of some far realm entities are working towards the release of Tharizdun in my campaign to facilitate the destruction of the player character's home sphere. You just provided a fantastic starting point for me if they choose to look into this hook.
For Worst place in the multiverse you had it right the first time.
I LOVE Tharizdun. He's so interesting and mysterious. Great vid
Lol at 1:40 when you popped in from the bottom of the frame made me laugh 😂
Great video as always
😁
As a Jersey native...I agree.
Thank you so much for this lore dump! I had no idea POTA was standing on the shoulders of older published works. If that 1e conversion is released please do link it.
Was planning on using Tharizdun as my BBEG in my Wildemount campaign. Happy I’ve gotten all this context to flesh the villain and who he’d reach out to in order to gain his power!
hi all, there is a reddit post about funny D&D stories, one of them was about an evil party and they were conquering the world, the final battle was in a big city (like WaterDeep or Baldurs Gate), Elminster was there fighting agains the party... and, one of the players was an evil cleric, that wanted to unleash Tharizdun... and he did. The DM just closed the book and said, ok the campaign is over. If someone has the link please share it, it was an awesome post to read.
All right some Greyhawk.
Man, this was my most favorite video in a long while. I got so many ideas from the various bits of lore and info.
I'm told there are mixed messages as to whether Tharizdun and the Elder Elemental Eye are actually the same being. They seem to have different divine Domains...Tharizdun has Death, Evil, and Force, which don't really line up with the element thing.
This dude lives in eastern PA, I can feel it.
Could we get some lore on Kara-Tur's Gargantua?
Imo it sounds like a fun topic.
Great video as always Jorphdan! Glad to have your lore video cover Tharizdun. Always wanted to use this god for my warlock's plans. And with your help now one step closer.
Recently (Jan 30/21) Goodman Games announced that the updated Temple of Elemental Evil will be coming in August 2021 and it will be two hardcover books!
There may be some missing lore: in 4e, during the Essentials Revival attempt, they released “Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale”, which included creatures created by the Voidharrow through an Abyssal Plague. It was then used as a worlds-spanning event that impacted the core setting, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, and potentially others. It spawned six novels, a D&D Encounters campaign, and I believe two articles in Dragon Magazine from that time.
I loved the abyssal plagues story line, and would love to see it formally reintroduced to 5e. I’m actually running a campaign involving the Voidharrow and the Abyssal Plague in my home brew setting.
Nicely done. I'm looking to run a homebrew game revolving around a evil/corrupted druid. Tharizdun "Elder Element Eye" sounds like a great source for fleshing out the details! Keep up the great work!
THARIZDUUUN!!! A deep lore! Long have I sought this! I feel it is so much more compelling than 5e Avernus and the vague Shadowfell combined! There is a sense of doom there that does not sleep!
Nice I was literally just going back to the early uploads last night
My favourite D&D content creator by far. Keep up the great work Jorphdan.
Thanks!
Oh man I love Tharizdun! 🖤 No mention of Gary’s “Gord The Rogue.” books? That’s where I first heard of him. Those books catch flak but I love them!
Tharizdun, the Uzumaki (spiral) a god with a Junji Ito mind.
Great timing! Tharizdun is one of the plot threads in campaign that I'm running and so far most of my research has been from Greyhawk Online. And now one of my players has finally gotten his character's backstory to me after a year and a half and it involves the archfey the Queen of Air and Darkness, who I read in one source was corrupted by Tharizdun. Would you be able to do a lore video on the Queen of Air and Darkness at some point?
So how do the Gord of Greyhawk books factor in to this?
In those books Gord eventually frees Tharizdun so that he can destroy him, but fails and Oerth and Greyspace fall to the demons. In the process Gord is killed but is resurrected in another prime plane. Greyspace is sealed off with Tharizdun and the Lord of Entropy inside, with the intention that they will be destroyed when Greyspace collapses at the end of time.
Wow, that was a GREAT video on a classic being. THANK YOU!
Thanks!
Thanks for the awesome video! I am a few sessions into running Princes of the Apocalypse, so I am sure this info will come in handy.
Thanks for yet another great video! Wasn't even aware of Tharizdun until now, super interesting.
Also like how you are using and playing with the new video format. 👌🏻
That Greyhawk adventure was one of the best I have ever played in.
nice! :D
i played temple of elemental evil when my friends and i found his dad's books in the garage. I HAD to buy the goodman games republishing and conversion. such good times :)
I'm fascinated by all these videos on D&D history
Bro you read my mind, this is going to be one of three plots in my next campaign and I was just starting to do some research. I love it
P.s. I'm super happy that you've decided to continue with the face-to-face, for me personally it makes the content that much easier to consume.
It makes editing a lot easier, if I can get into a grove of writing scripts I'd like to put out two videos a week. We'll see!
Read Gygax's Gord the Rogue series of books ; it's HUGE! Tharizdun is MUCH more powerful, & it's a perfect level 1 to EPIC campaign!
This is my warlock players patron
Tharizdun Origins
The multiverse itself gained sentience and split into order (the Prime Creator) and chaos (Tharizdun and the Shard of Pure Evil). This emphasizes the eternal conflict between stability and entropy while adding a deeply philosophical layer to the nature of existence in the multiverse. Let’s break this down further and explore its implications.
1. The Multiverse as a Sentient, Unified Entity
In the beginning, the multiverse existed as a primordial, chaotic whole, unstructured and undefined. This state is not just a raw potential for creation-it is also alive and sentient.
The Nature of This Sentience:
The multiverse, as a single being, embodies both order and chaos, two opposing but inseparable aspects of existence.
Over time, the multiverse realizes that its chaotic instability threatens to unravel its existence. To preserve itself, it takes the monumental step of splitting into its two fundamental aspect
Order: The orderly, stable elements become the Prime Creator, embodying the will to create, structure, and nurture existence.
Chaos: The unstable, destructive elements are cast off, forming the chaotic entities that cannot exist within the ordered framework. These include Tharizdun (sentient chaos) and the Shard of Pure Evil (raw destructive force).
Why the Split Was Necessary:
The multiverse could not sustain both order and chaos within a single consciousness. The tension between these opposing forces would have led to total self-destruction.
By dividing itself, the multiverse ensured its survival-but at a cost: it became fragmented, creating the very separation Tharizdun now seeks to undo.
2. Tharizdun as Chaos Incarnate
Tharizdun is not simply a god or an external force-it is the personification of the chaotic aspect of the multiverse, severed from its counterpart in the Prime Creator.
Tharizdun’s Nature:
Incomplete: Tharizdun, as a fragment of the original whole, is inherently unstable. It exists in a constant state of longing for reunification, driven by an instinctive need to return to its source.
Destructive: Without the balance of order, Tharizdun’s chaotic nature becomes unbridled. It cannot create, only destroy, as it sees creation itself as a barrier to reunification.
Madness: The longer Tharizdun exists in isolation, the more its instability grows, driving it deeper into madness. Its longing for the Prime Creator becomes an obsession, warping its perspective into a singular goal: undoing the separation of order and chaos.
The Role of the Shard of Pure Evil:
The Shard of Pure Evil is another fragment of the original chaotic multiverse, embodying pure, unfiltered entropy.
When Tharizdun discovers and absorbs the Shard, it amplifies its chaotic nature, making it far more powerful but also far more unstable. This union transforms Tharizdun into an even greater threat, as it becomes a being of nearly limitless destructive potential.
3. Tharizdun’s Goal: Undoing the Split
Tharizdun’s ultimate goal is to reunite with the Prime Creator and restore the multiverse to its original unified state. However, this reunification requires the undoing of the separation, which would annihilate all of creation.
Why Tharizdun Seeks Reunification:
Existential Pain: Tharizdun’s very existence as a fragment causes it immense suffering. It views its chaotic nature as a curse and believes that only by reuniting with the Prime Creator can it find peace.
Inherent Instinct: As a piece of the original multiverse, Tharizdun is bound by an instinctive need to return to the whole, much like a puzzle piece seeks its place in the larger picture.
Misguided Perspective: Tharizdun equates the multiverse’s structure-its planes, gods, and mortals-as the “walls” that separate it from the Prime Creator. In its madness, it believes destroying these structures will allow it to reunite with its source.
The Method of Undoing:
To undo the separation, Tharizdun must dismantle the framework of creation itself:
Destroying the Material Plane, where mortals thrive and fuel the gods through worship.
Collapsing the Outer Planes, including the realms of the gods, as these are the expressions of order.
Returning the multiverse to a state of pure, chaotic potential where no barriers exist between order and chaos.
4. The Prime Creator’s Role
The Prime Creator, as the embodiment of order, represents the opposite of Tharizdun’s chaotic nature. However, it may also share a deep connection with its cast-off fragment.
Why the Prime Creator Does Not Intervene:
Impartiality: The Prime Creator may see Tharizdun’s existence as part of a necessary balance. While destructive, Tharizdun’s actions are a counterbalance to creation.
A Test for Creation: The Prime Creator might view Tharizdun as a test for the multiverse, a force that challenges mortals and gods to preserve existence against entropy.
The Potential for Reunion:
Tharizdun’s goal of reunification is not inherently evil-it is a distorted desire for completeness. The Prime Creator may be the only being capable of offering Tharizdun peace, but doing so would require a solution that avoids the destruction of the multiverse.
5. Narrative and Thematic Implications
A Tragic Villain:
Tharizdun is not purely a malevolent force-it is a being trapped by its own nature, seeking wholeness but unable to achieve it without causing immense destruction.
The Balance of Creation and Destruction:
The split between order and chaos highlights the necessity of balance in the multiverse. Tharizdun’s story underscores the dangers of imbalance, as chaos without order leads to madness, while order without chaos leads to stagnation.
Mortals as Protectors of Balance:
Mortals, as creations of the structured multiverse, become the ultimate defenders against Tharizdun’s attempts to unmake existence. Their actions determine whether balance can be preserved or whether chaos will prevail.
One thing that's especially terrifying:
*_He is now an Elder Evil, alongside his spawn Shothragot._*
Second edition had a section about him in the DM's guide to Necromancer's. My favorite and most used resource.
I love Tharizdun lore and this is different than what I’ve known in the past. Quite a perfect over arcing source of evil and chaos though!
Tharizdun is possibly one of my favorite D&D villains. I'm not sure of the sources, but I remember a version of Tharizdun who had more complex motivations and personality. His world view being that there should be a Separation between Gods and Mortals, creating the Astral Dreadnaughts as a way to keep Mortals out of the divine realms. He sees the universe of DnD as inherently flawed (due to the concept of Time and that things will eventually die), so he wants to get rid of the current universe and replace it with a new Everlasting one.
TL:DR Tharizdun became a God of Decay and Destruction so he can create a new world that has no Decay and Destruction
"making a resurgence" as if it's not the BBEG of Critical Role campaign 2.
Spoilers man. Some people may not be caught up or not have watched it yet. Probably best to tag your comment with spoilers or something
i've been wondering. Haven't played much in a long while, but i like to keep up with the lore. Given the happenings "lately" in the Realms, are the writers setting up for a future Cosmic Upheaval (Edition change)?
This is pieced together from several conversations over years, i'll try to keep it short but coherent.
Shar is not just just Darkness and Shadow, she is Oblivion. She is the absence (end) of all things. She doesn't just want to rule everything, she wants to destroy (unmake) it all. She orchestrated the assassination of Mystra using power borrowed from Outsiders to prevent Mystra (and even Ao) from stopping it.
Why? And how?
Has Shar been listening to the whispers of Tharizdun for centuries? Being badgered until he started "making sense"? Or possibly, did she find the Shard in her delving of the Shadow, exploring where none others would even care to go, and getting instructions from Other whispers?
Certainly i could go further, but that would take pages of space. After watching this video, it made me think of why a goddess would behave in a way to threaten the existence of her own sphere.
You didn’t mention how he was the main villain of the Gygax’s Gord the Rogur series...
Nice job as always!
Thank you! Cheers!
This is the BBEG in my current campaign. Thanks for the video!
Very welcome!
@@Jorphdan As a follow up, I'd love to see a video on Shothragot if you're open to digging deeper.
Love the Abyss image. I'm originally from New Jer, sorry, the Abyss, and that couldn't be more spot on. It's like all the horrors, chaos, and evil rolled into one, just without the 666 layers. All the better to torment you......
😂
Gonna put a few quotes from a certain game designer Discord I am part of here, because I feel it describes Tharizdun's essence very well
"Tharizdun has more in common with cosmic horror, the corruptive aspects of evil, the death of virtue, and the slide of hope, joy, love, and wonder into a sort of sucking despair that can only be slaked by visiting your own ruin upon others"
"Yeenoghu exists because it'd be weird if he didn't.
"Senseless, purposeless, sustained violence" is a classic, undeniable CE idea
Not having the all-time champion of it someplace would be a nagging gap
Tharizdun exists for the same reason: he has to
What goes up must come down
All that is must eventually be not
If divinity expresses human experience, Thari is the inescapable truth of entropy
But he's also in a f****** box for that same reason
All must end... But not today"
Could you put that in the doobly-do?
Peace ✌️ Out 👉
Really love your videos. Thank you!!
Glad you like them!
Dude, I just came to your page like 5 days ago looking for lore on Tharizdun. How you be in my mind? Great video! Thanks!
THARIZDUUUN!!! A deep lore! Long have I sought this!
Love the NJ graphic. Since I was born and raised there I can confirm. It is definitely the Abyss. Luckily I was able to escape and flee far away when I turned 18 way back in the day. LOL
LMAO "The Abyss" NJ... nailed it.
The first to capture the shard of evil was oboxob. After he was sundered, the title passed to mishka the wolf spider who was defeated. At which point demogorgon claimed the title.
im a fan of Cyric the Mad God, and this history mirrors the story of Cyric very much. Tharizdun and Cyric both exist in the Forgotten Realms, with similar histories, is this just an over sight by some of the writers? Did they plan on coping large elements of Tharizdun to make the Cyric story?
What if all the obelisks in 5e adventures were connected to Tharzidun and his prison?
What if the obelisks entraps all the murder hobos and horny bards from everyones campaign?
@@SlothinAintEasy yes
@@SlothinAintEasy No. there’s not enough space in the Forgotten Realms for that many Obelisks’
Tharizdun is metal af those names are cool as heck
Awesome video. I really appreciate these! Do you have any info on Zargon the Returner?
Tharizdun is also clearly the explanation for Pathfinder's own Destroyer God, Rovagug the Rough Beast.
The Primordials and the Outer Realm embody the deflowering of D&D continuity.
Love this channel algorithm comment!
Of course he ended up in the Forgotten Realms. Everything does. *sigh*
Oh well, at least if Wizards continues to ignore the actual good campaign settings they own then they can't do any more damage to their lore, and it's not like Forgotten Realms can become any more of a mess.
I have noticed that The Realms have become the Sakaar of 5th Ed.
Your Greyhawk " Campaign Setting " Handbook has a different cover than I remember seeing? Were there more than? Is Tharizdun the Eye of Gruumpsh, God of bugbear, hobgoblins, and kobolds ( 2nd Edition Ad &d, Book of Races, or Dieties and Demigods ?)
I'm not sure if Tharizdun is Gruumsh, that could be a fun idea to explore.
I’ve been looking forward to this
YO was that reference image for the cyst from Arrival? Amazing movie
The temple of elemental evil is the best module I have ever DMed. I wonder if 5e version is good enough to play.
If Tolkien earned a penny everytime someone copied from him he would be richier than Bezos and Tesla combined. Cant belive how many times his gods, ideas, monster and creatures have been adapted to other franchises.
Yay your back love your videos
Thanks!
I'm making a story where the Celestials have locked up an Abyssal god at the top of Mount Celestia. They'd say the Abyssal God is at the bottom of the infinite abyss, but it's actually at the top of Mount Celestia, the other side of the cosmological world. I wouldn't trust demons or devils to keep an eye on literal evilness.
To put it mildly, I've been looking for a god, how he escaped Mount Celestia, and what is he up to. I might use Tharizdun, sounds like the King of Demons, and an interesting guy.
Maybe the chains were made by the kings and queens of the elemental Chaos, and each chain is broken if their children are killed(or how one chain is "the prince of elemental fire ought to cry for this chain to be destroyed). That's why he wants to corrupt the princes of the elements, to send them to their deaths.
Can you do a video on the shadow weave and what happened to it? Is there a possible future for it to be reinstated?
That New Jersey slam was brutal 🤣
"Tharzdunn's inability to focus is what truly chains him". If that ain't a metaphor or adhd and debt......
I believe Tharizdun is in the background of the second gord the rogue novel by Gary gygax, where Gord is looking for one of the 3 parts of an artiffact that could free Tharizdun.( I read the novel a while back, so please correct me if I am wrong)
Yep, you're remembering correctly. Artifact of Evil is the title.
3:16 lol, well played ;)
Currently playing a Human Dhampir Paladin of Tharizdun, Oath of Vengeance.
Jorphdan,
Can you do a video on “that which endures”; because I thought it was the same guy as this guy?
The BBEG to end all BBEGs, at least in my D&D headcanon.
I thought the voidharrow was the dead universe the original shard of pure evil originally came from?
Apparently Tharizdun also was the one to cause that universe's destruction in some weird time paradox thing
@3:17, That one hit a little too close to home, man.
I laughed but one could also instert Illinois, and it would still be valid.
Tharizdun might be the best beginning for my Vecna-fused unspeakable evil; now I need to figure out how to do it.
You've got this 👍
@@theophrastusbombastus1359 It's still taking time because there's no margin for error
Damn I mean if he couldn’t handle the demons that’s kind of underwhelming from what I originally thought about him.
Lmao nice sneaky New Jersey joke
What edition is your Greyhawk book?