ralfy review 941 Extras - Your chill-filtration challenge !
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
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💯% non-chill filtered , raging war on 40 % ABV . As always, it’s been educational Ralfy 🙏
Industry doesn’t listen well, it’s been over a decade and far far too few distilleries have taken the message to heart. They’re happy spending more money to give us a worse product.
@@robfut9954 Sadly it doesn’t need to, until we vote with our wallets. Whisky is becoming more of a commodity than a drink, so exorbitant prices are being paid for plain old dross that no one ever opens and drinks . As a consequence those that do are being disrespected. Personally, unless out socially I never purchase CF whisky . That’s the only way to get our message across, will they care , yes eventually, but only when their market share goes elsewhere.
Maybe the new Scotch law should be a minimum of 46% ABV and UCF and Natural Colour on every bottling to be classed as a single malt scotch. We are unanimous in this ✊
I would love this. Something else if a non-integrity bottling.
✊
BRAVO,Ralfy!!! A Masterclass!! I am a certified sommelier but first sensed it in my Balvenie and Dalwhinnie.... The lightness that I now will call the lack of "body". That lack of weight is noticed in wines as well. The comparison of Glenlivet 12 core range and Illicit Still, 40% chillfiltered to 48% non chillfiltered is excellent as well as you have noted. So very well done sir.
. . . thanks.
there is a reason for chill filtering: it will make their whisky easily approachable by ordinary consumers who simply want to get “high” or enjoy the “brand”, and sadly the size that their market is many manyfold larger than real malt mates (there are many fake ones). Ralfy’s voice won’t change many of those distilleries operations and strategies but would definitely increase the awareness of certain (even small) sensible distilleries which will hopefully benefit us and that is great enough! I am after quality than quantity which is opposite to I was 30 years ago.
. . . the journey to the summit of the mountain is taken with many small steps.
We need to start talking about the bleaching and chemical contamination that filters are subject to… and the fact that they’re forcing a solvent through this. Seems like a great way to taint a fine product.
Again an excellent lessson in Ralfy's whisky. Really enjoyed it. I have to do the same experiment one time.
Do not rush your whisky.
Avoid gulping and guzzling your whisky and keep it quality and not quantity.
Cheerio from Germany
As a long time viewer of Ralfy and as he has noted many times, I really wish each and every single malt distillery had a seperate bottling for the anoraks.
Most of us are willing to a pay a reasonable premium for a cask strength or at least a 46%, un-chillfiltered and naturally colored integrity bottlings.
Hoping the distilleries take note for what ends up in the bottle is why we love them and what we pay for.
. . . well said.
I really love your Extras, they often open up my mind. Thank you again for this Extra, Ralfy.
Slàinte 🥃 and best greetings from the little village in the midde of germany 🦁
Hey Ranger, how is that little village called?
In a previous job I used to spend hours getting the coagulant and floccuant chemicals balanced to draw the impurities out of a closed loop water system. Exciting stuff.
Enjoying a PC10 heavily peated while taking this in. Wonderfull stuff, good video also.
Agree 100%. So much harm being done by marketing that it's so hard to fix the industry. Most customers don't care and it's really hard to convince them and skew demand for better products when all they see is the flawed ones.
Thanks ralfy for these. Spreading the word, all of us, I believe we are making small steps toward a better industry!
It's interesting that you mention floc because there's a local distillery called Overeem that actually collects floc and bottles it for sale. They call it "Floc Shots". It's the cloudiest, oiliest, most viscous whisky imaginable and the limited amount they put out each year sells out fast.
I wonder if any scotch distilleries could do the same? Would it comply with scotch whisky regulations?
. . . sounds very interesting. Rarely seen in scotch these days.
Yet another exquisite extras from Ralfy. Thank you so much for these videos.
Recently i bought a 1.75 Lt bottle of 3 year old blended scotch from Costco, just out of curiosity. It is astonishing how much the aging process adds to the whisky. I would absolutely not recommend the bottle, since for pretty much the same price i could have a bottle of Wild Turkey 101 which i quite enjoyed.
Absolutely loved this extras, learnt so much!
Thanks Ralfy for the amazing comparison video. It is a fact that as one advances through a more advanced whisky level, they gravitate towards the un-chill filtered whisky. The flavor doesn't change much I would assume but there is a big difference in the texture and mouthfeel as you have pointed out. Couldn't agree more.
Fosters... crud from Australia and I'm saying that as an Australian....
I don't know anybody here that actually drinks Fosters.
I can’t say I’ve seen more than 2 or 3 people drink one here, and there’s a reason for that. Terrible beer.
Wow, thanks for the education. Just back from Scotland (Speyside) and could not get a detailed explanation such as yours regarding chill filtering. Did enjoy about 25 different "expressions" and Tomatin 18 was probably my favorite. Glad I found your channel.
Went to a bar not long back with a casual whisky drinking and I will always remember him saying "look how clear and refreshing" it looked. I certainly think chill filtering has its place but it is great to see a direct comparison to see what a beast a natural drop can be. Cheers.
Ralfy, You are right about the water called Heineken. Greetz from The Dutch Highlands.
so happy to see vids that prescribe self-exploration rather than the lapping up of expert wisdom..my mention in this regard would be: make merry my maltily-mischievous maharjas
Yeah, very much feeling the price here in Iceland, about $35 or so of ethanol tax per bottle, and then the local stores don't have the best selection so I often need to order online, which usually gives me DHL overnight shipping as the only option, so another $40 on top for shipping(for the whole order though, not individual bottles thankfully), and then 11% VAT on top of the whole thing.
But aside from that, this reminds me of when I had a normal Glenlivet 12, and a Glenlivet Nadurra OL0818 open at the same time, and quickly found, that they tasted much better mixed together than either did on their own, with a notably more complex flavor, including flavor notes I had not found in either on their own.
I always wondered if that was because re-introducing the oils in the Nadurra back in to the 12 allowed some of the flavors to show themselves again, and perhaps the mix of 1/4th Nadurra 3/4ths 12, taking the 12 from 40% to 45% also made a big difference.
I got the idea to try that from one of your older videos, though I long forgot which one, still thank you for the idea, It made for a much better whisky.
I agree 100% with everything you said, and my own experiences mirror yours (especially post covid where .y nose is still 50% on a good day)
There's no denying that it's easier to have a consistently average experience with chill filtered whisky. Integrity malts are a little bit "bitchier" Springbank for example, requires one to know how to drink scotch, or you'll be posting an a whisky group about how ot has a Sulphur note that you don't care for...
Flannel-Free Facts on chill-Filtration: there is no excuse now for buying anything other than integrity single malts, unless of course you don't mind about the end result. If you want quality in your whisky, you've got to listen to quality advice.....over to you Maestro 🙂👍.
I don't know about the usage of paper filters for chill filtering whisky, but I'm really surprised you didn't even _mention_ kieselgur! ^^
Personally Ralfy, I have moved straight to higher ABV whiskies. And my experience of good quality spirits is a fraction of yours!!
A good episode, Ralfy, maybe another extras, would be to go into a distillery and document the chill-filtering process to give your listeners and viewers a hands-on and scientific overlook of what exactly goes on during this chill-filtering process. It's such a contentious issue in the whisky world that it would make sense to show everyone, from an industry perspective, what exactly happens during this chill-filtering process.
Patchwork I know but what about enhancing the 10 with a little cs topping up till say 48%? I do that sometimes with Benromach 10 and Laphroaig 10. Especially the latter one benefits by a small cs offer not only for the % but also the mouth feel. What do the annoracs say?
Something I’ve been wondering since I understand chill filtering - what if the bottling production lines bottle in winter time? If they don’t have environmental temperature control, the liquid is naturally chilled, and barrier filtered. I checked my Ardbeg inventory and found that around 80% are bottled in cold season midnights.
Honestly they need to just all embrace the fact that natural whisky can go cloudy. If they don’t like that for the brand, that’s what colored bottles are for. I love green glass personally, protects from UV too.
Any plans for a Christmas live ? Open to all for some festive cheer sip & sing Noel's , you could do it for charity & further your chance of that Knighthood :)
Cheers mate if I could bestow one I would but I wonder if Charles is a fan of Benromach .
@Ralfy: It would be interesting to hear your review blind tested comparing chill filtered and non-chill filtered.
Bad whisky will naturally make you go blind :D
The main offense here is "dilution", IMHO. Cutting the whisky down to the bare minimum of 40% or slightly better 43% does the most of the harm. Chill-filtration is a consequential event, but the damage has already been done. I'm not sure that I can distinguish chill-filtered whisky against non chill filtered, but I bet I can tell the difference between 40-43% and 46% + whisky. And I'm not talking about the basic alcohol burn as I add water to my whisky 19 out of 20 times. I'm talking about the higher ABV dram having denser mouthfeel, more intense and richer profile, longer finish, etc.
The ultimate "chill filtration challenge" should be done with control samples of the same whisky (same distillery, same casks/blend, same ABV) with only difference being the chill-filtration. Everything less will be always debatable and will give points to the "chill filtration isn't bad" team. Problem is there is not a single whisky on the market that has two different expressions that are the same except for chill-filtration. Usually the non chill filtered one has higher ABV which is the true game changer, as I said in the beginning.
So, maybe we should focus our critiques towards pre-bottling dilution of whisky and using of E150. If the main reason for chill filtration is to prevent cloudiness, the 46+ % ABV will not only solve the problem but also should not lead to price hikes. The excise for the higher ABV will be partly or fully compensated by saving the costs for chill filtration, which will no longer be needed.
BTW, the best example of non chill filtered whisky I have tasted so far is Tomatin Cask Strength, bottled in 2019. When I add water to it the liquid becomes almost fully opaque in the glass. I have tasted a bottle form 2021 and albeit also very nice it is day and night compared to the 2019 one. Apparently the casks used for the 2019 batch were something very, very special.
As for Benromach, why they bottle their core range 10, 15 and 21 yo whisky at 43% is beyond me. The 10 yo is still affordably priced, but the new 15 and 21 yo prices are beyond the reach of passive consumers. Even if G&M want to target mass consumers with "smoother" lower ABV whisky, I highly doubt that the old-school, dry profile of Benromach will be very appealing to them.
Cheers!
I'm trying to think of bottles that would be ideal for comparison. NCF vs CF, but with essentially the same juice. In the USA.
I know The Genlivit 12 and Glenlivit 12 illicit still are available everywhere, but I am struggling to think of any other opportunities.
Good choice. Go for it.
Hi.. Malty Malty... ❤️ your reviews.. unadulterated crisp and clear... From Kerala, India
. . . happy to share.
What I could give to have a drink with this gentleman
Very educational…great presentation.
I enjoyed this extras.
.. Cheers to you. ..
Your crusade for un-chillfiltered is taking effect.Yesterday I noticed a Bottle of Clan MaCleod blended at 46% "un-chillfiltered". This is in Hong Kong might try some. Have you seen it on sale in Scotland?
. . . not yet !
Trouble is the real ales get cooled by being in the same cellar as the cooled cask beers, hoping pubs will economise by switching off the cooling stuff in the energy risis.
I'm only able to get the 10 yo Benromach here where I live, and I probably will in the near future. I'm so sorry that I wont be able to perform this little experiment that you're suggesting, Benromach cask strength is not imported in my country.
00:55 - 1:05 - (Me clearing throat.....Like here in Canada!!) 🤣😏🤦🏽♂
What's nice to see is a lot of American whiskey/craft bourbons are bottling no -chill filtered spirits and putting it front and center on the label.
Great video. Would love to try this, but it is a challange finding two bottles fitting the criteria here in Sweden. Will keep a look out
Roughly two and a half years ago I did this with Highland Park 12 and indi bottle BB+R 12 Orkney and I could tell the difference in taste. The 46% BB+R easy winner, now the BB+R is all gone I have used the 12 yr Signatory, or BB+R 12yr Glen Moray both belters.
Next year going on an Indi bottling search all within my budget ( nothing over a £100.00 )
I might even try that Ledaig 12 Golden Cask again if its still available FFS ;-)
One of the most educational videos I've seen in a long time. Now I have a far better understanding of how to identify whether a whiskey has been chill filtered or not. Plus the temperatures they chill them down to. However, to find bourbons that are not chill filtered will be a trick; unfortunately the vast majority of them are. And I'm not sure what brands of American Single Malts are non-chill filtered. I will search for some videos of chill filtering machinery. I will never understand this: here you have a mode of production in which extra cost is unnecessarily injected into the production of a product, yet that makes the product cheaper? Only in corporate capitalism, makes more sense by the minute. Anyway, thanks Ralfy from NC, USA!
Balcones make non-chill filtered Whisky.
The 10 is the only one available at our lcbo here in Ontario Canada right now.
ye, agree so much … 🙏🏻
but some big producers don’t want to get the message. 😒
. . .they are stuck in the past.
Great episode.
Does anyone know the formula of proofing down the whisky? Had it but lost it.
I just cannot get my head around the producers spending all the time and money on oak casks to help flavour and give body to the spirit,to then,spend time and money stripping it all back out again.Cannot be good for the sustainability watchword we keep hearing about.
. . . very good point, and they CHARGE us for it too.
Another (great) side by side comparison would be Laphroaig 10 43% vs CS Laphroaig 10...except that I cannot find a Laphroaig 10 CS anywhere despite having a rare Springbank 15 in the stash! 😏😏
Something I have been wondering ever since I really understood chill filtration - what do they do with what is filtered out? Do they just discard the filtered material? I understand that when distilling with a column still that fusel oil can be extracted at a particular plate and is sold on. Can the chill filtered material be sold on for some purpose?
. . . goes into the bin.
@@thewhiskybothy oh wow, that's just tragic. They pay money to sabotage their own product.
@@rorybrown4952 . . . yes, and all for 'marketing'.
Glenlivet 12 vs the illicit still could be instructive. Hard to know the relative batch sizes and recipe aims but the illicit still was presented as a craft version of the standard, or was suggestibley so.
Very well explained Ralfy !
Hopefully this PSA gets enough exposure because unfortunately most people have no clue regarding this issue.
Excelente video, excelente información. Gracias Ralfy.
Benromach featuring a lot lately
. . .and then Edradour will feature a lot next. I am doing more groupings for comparison.
@@thewhiskybothy I hope you’re still loving the current Caledonia bottling - just ran out of my last one which I was loving, hoping to replace it if it’s still up to scratch!
@@thewhiskybothy Exelennt love Edradour and Benromach.
thanks again Ralfy
I agree that modern chill filtered whiskies are an abomination, but what do you think about the oldies vintage 50/60/70's? Sestante, Samaroli, Gorden & McPail Brown label/black label/highlander label/Celtic series all these are considered the best of the best and often 40/43%. In my experience modern cs whiskies don't stand a chance against these icons.
Great extras Ralfy, I've compared the two different bottlings of GlenDronc 12...chalk and cheese, tragic.
I find there seems to be an addiction to holding a good whisky in the mouth just for the extra experience.
Both Aberlour 12 versions can be good candidates for the challenge.
You are awesome Ralfy
Hi Ralfy, does the process of Chill Filtration add significant or moderate costs to the distillery? If so, that would make it even more ridiculous.
This is something I’ve been wondering also. Logically it would add costs because the investment in filtration system. But then again I’m guessing chill-filtration happens prior to bottling so then again it’s not necessarily distillery’s investment because not many of them bottle their own bottles so the cost would be moderate if any.
. . . any cost is significant. The biggest cost is chilling the spirit before filtering.
Scotland without scotch mist isn't Scotland. Why should Scotch whisky be any different? Sláinte mhath Ralfy 🥃
Hey Ralfy do you think if whisky distilleries stopped chill filtration it would save them money on energy?
Just a thought with the cost of energy going crazy.
All they would need is little bit of text on the box or bottle to say don't worry if your whisky is a little cloudy it's just scotch mist.
Or am I being silly?
. . . lots of money would be saved.
@@thewhiskybothy I bought a bottle of Arran 10 year old today because of your recommendation. I personally find the added colour in whisky more annoying than chill filtration because I feel like I'm being lied to. Saying that I totally understand more now what you mean about chill filtration. When you said about mouth feel. Thank you for your advice.
@@Owyn1993 . . . yes, with E150a, they lie.
Makes me wonder how would this comparison fare in double blind test... When you don't know what is in the glass things get interesting
Flock equals the 'Sludge of Truth'
Just a quick question. Have you tasted a sample or bought a bottle of either the 2021 special release Oban 12 or the 2021 special release Talisker 8?? I didn't see you reviewing any of the 2020 special releases from Diageo
Keep up the great reviews !
are you going to let the dalek have a swig of the cask strength === excaskeate .
Ralfy, I’m heading to Denmark in September and will be planning a trip to Stauning distillery, have you tried any whisky from there and if so, what’s you thoughts , cheers 🥃
. . . be guided by the locals !
How do you work out how much water to add to get to a certain strength?
. . . experience and adding a little at a time.
Theres increasing talk about making the distilling and maturation process "greener" . I wonder what effect this would have on flavour if it ever comes to pass
Valinch & Mallet, independent bottlers. Amy thoughts on them? I cant find anything on their bottlings in the way of reviews.
. . . worth watching, they are new to the scene and still to prove themselves.
@@thewhiskybothy Thanks. Was debating on a bottle of Cambus but think I might go their Bunnahabhain instead.
On another note, in the states old inventory is starting to disappear out of the warehouses (Glenfiddich 12 jumped 25% in the last 3 mos in my area) so that's what I'm keeping my eye on. Old inventory priced where it was. Thx again!!
Are rums and bourbons chill filtered as much?
Sucks to be Iceland
*sips delicious scotch 🥃💙🇮🇸
Did you drink both drams or was the chill filtered abandoned?
Tapadh leibh, Ralfy!!
Can you recommend Good Ales 🍺 available in 🇬🇧 which are outstanding in quality that I know I don't throw my money in the garbage 😀 are there any good quality ales??
. . . check this out www.beeradvocate.com/beer/top-rated/gb/
👍❤️🥃
I m afraid that the Scotch market is crashing soon. Here in Germany, many bottles that would be swiped off in a single week (as, e.g.Kilkerran Batch 6) are lingering in the internet shelves for quite some time. The non integrity bottles will not find buyers any more. And the Irish Whiskey Tiger has awoken. If I compare a Redbreast Lustau to something Scotchy, the choice is not so difficult. And the Scotch industry seems to be filled up with irrelevant stock. Many small changes (such as getting rid of open fire dest, worm tubs, good casks, traditional warehauses... ) have compromisrd the quality of the product. And now they are sitting on a mountain of nothing. The big ones, the culprits will survive by capital, the small ones procuring good quality will die.
. . . you make a good point.
Last 5 mins, ...in a nutshell 😉
my comment is gone... damn it :)
if they cannot tell the difference then why chill filter ;;;
B R A V O
This challenge isn't all that useful, but I do understand it's likely the best that can be done. If you actually do want to do a scientifically rigorous test, you'd take a vat of whiskey, chill filter half, don't the other half. Then we'd taste that.