I put a PC inside a PC (It’s actually GOOD!)
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
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@der8auer's video: • Intel said this may no...
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Timestamps:
0:00 that isn't a graphics card
0:33 Sponsor - War Thunder
2:06 what is this weird PC?
4:07 My whacky idea
4:56 Putting a PC inside a PC
6:51 Noise and sleep issue
7:33 Cinebench R23, system power, and thermals
9:44 Installing Proxmox
10:12 Jellyfin and HWA Transcoding
10:35 Home Assistant VM and Minecraft attempt
11:12 Remote Access with AMT
12:17 Does this even make sense? 
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Play War Thunder now with my link, and get a massive, free bonus pack including vehicles, boosters, and more: playwt.link/hardwarehaven
you should use prism launcher for minecraft
wt is p2w btw
could i use a video capture card to see the interface for this on my main pc?
Don't take my life plz
@@Sir_pancakes_modrinth better
Ahh, serverception. I love it! Now we need a PCIe card that has four slots for SoMs, so you can put four home servers in your home server!
Well, you could use some sort of PCIe x16 female/female adapter and connect another NUC to that and repeat for the amount of NUCs you want? But then...wouldn't you technically be having a bunch of blade servers in a different format?
NUC on a Pi?
Also create a hypervisor on that virtualizing some home servers, virtualizing some home servers hosting containers... 😂
I wish this card had a pcie expansion slot.
Looks like this is the same Jeff that left a glowing review on a connector on Amazon
“Yo Dawg, I heard you like computers - so I put a computer in yo computer!”
Beat me to the joke
So you can computer while you computer 😎
Sun Microsystems has been doing this since they released the Penguin.
Jeff Geerling beat him to it with a thumbnail featuring this meme
*Amiga Bridgeboard enters the chat*
PCIe you say? Sounds like I can plug it into my ZimaBlade 😂
Oh jeez that would be hilarious
i was thinking the same thing! lol
@@HardwareHaven a tinkerer guy says to Inception "hold my fan"...
My first thought...
Oh God that would be sooo funny if it works! 😂
kinda wish the pcie slot could be used for direct communication between both computers, almost like an accelerator card
True...
I was thinking the same thing
@@HardwareHaven it would be similar to the scrapped Project Larabee in a way, where the card could also execute x86 instructions in a graphics card-like form factor
Intel and amd would have a heart attack. They want to overcharge business and not give them any outs. The arm chip makers might allow for that.
You could do it, with a pcie switch set up as a non-transparent bridge.
The Linux kernel makes use of this natively for some kinds of NTB, forming virtual network and serial links between machines.
The cost of that NTB chip however is quite significant.
Immediately checks amazon/ebay/etc and sees $250+
Yeah, you can get a Minisforum MC560 with a Ryzen 5 5625U on Newegg right now for 255. Not a perfect mini PC.. but still makes more sense than spending $250 on a PCI card Computer that still needs power from another source that can't sleep.
this would be a lot cooler if the pcie slot actually served a purpose
It TECHNICALLY does provide 3.3V, 5V and 12V to the motherboard... but yeah it would be awesome if there was more to it.
It might be usable by using two PCIe slot adapters with a PCIe data cable between them.
@@HardwareHaven I didn't get why do you used the top slot (direct conected to the CPU)of the MB if you needed to cover the data pins. I know that in the actual configuration it doesn't matter, but you could have saved it for a future project whith a GPU, or a 10Gb optical nic, etc...
IDK, it simply looked wrong to me to damage the case there.
@@murylocordeiro There's a big difference between a project that will get used vs a project that gets torn down after I finish filming. Honestly, I put it in the top slot because it looked better and would look more like a GPU in the thumbnail and B-Roll lol. As far as the case, I plan to clean up the cuts before my next video on it, and I don't think losing just one of of those cross bars will affect the structure in any meaningful way.
Yeah, disappointed to find out (early in the video, at least) that it isn't something like the SunPCi
This extra computer concept is exactly how your GPU actually works, it's essentially another computer built for a specific purpose, that interfaces through a high-speed low-latency pc bus. The only reason it doesn't have on-board storage atm, is bc the architecture is not designed to compress/decompress files or do other general tasks like the CPU can, therefore limiting what it can accomplish in the pc realm. The card shown in the video can be used to interface with your main for two reasons:
1: If the card's firmware is updated/jailbroken to act as a slave device, rather than a master device when it came out of the factory floor.
2: Intel provides drivers for the use of the card on a main machine so that it can interface and provide the main with certain functions/the ability to perform tasks on the card without incompatibilities/technical issues. Or a github repo is provided to provide drivers to use this card as a slave device to the main machine.
It's interesting the level of detail provided in the video on the usefulness of this card in a main rig, and the stuff u could do with it in this use case. But i just wanted to post my take on this and what i can think of what could help expand the usefulness of this outdated tech.
While this might seem odd, it's actually a very old concept. Orange Micro, a now defunct hardware company, used to make similar cards in the early 90's for Macs as a way for them to run Windows. It was before Hypervisors were a thing.
Sun micro also did the same with Solaris.
Several companies did this sorta thing for various platforms, I had a Mac Quadra something with a 486dx2-50 on a card in it back in the day, quite useful actually since I had limited space living in a small 1 room appartment of sorts, so I just had one monitor, mouse and keyboard, but separate PC and Mac computers combined into one thing.
Hypervisors have absolutely nothing to do with it, LPAR was very much a thing. However, what it did was allow two completely different hardware architectures to coexist inside one physical computer and also exchange files to a degree, I no longer remember exactly how it worked but it was a thing.
LPAR is splitting a computer system into more separate "slices" that can run separate instances of the OS to a configurable degree, without needing actually separate hardware to run the "slice" on, pretty much exactly what a bunch of people are very exited about these days as if it is a new thing, lol. The difference now is that you can do it on consumer level hardware, that's it - and that is due to address translation being supported in newer CPU's, which is a _must_ to run so called VM's which are simply a softer form of an LPAR in most ways.
Edit: Realized this may not ring bells to people younger than me, LPAR is a logical partition, this has been a thing with larger computer systems for quite some time, I don't recall off the top of my head who did it first but I'm talking about stuff that was done on "professional server/large systems", so not x86, 68k, Amiga etc pedestrian overgrown pocket calculators, which in many ways is what they were back in the 80's and before, and to a degree still most of the 90's. I mean "big iron" computers, 32 and 64bit systems when most people at home had things like C64, Atari or if they were a bit more die-hard they had some Mac, PC or if they were cool an Amiga 😁
@noth606 Youre a bit long in the tooth. I don't think 95% of the viewers are older than 30. Thanks for the read. I'm guessing you're well into your 50s.
@@oldschooldude8370 nope. 44. My friend had one of these cards when we were 12.
Also the Bridgeboard for the Amiga or the CP/M card for the Apple II in 1979(first Microsoft product)
can't complain much but, seems like a great idea.
this is like inception a dream within a dream
lol I should've found a way to make an inception reference. Wasted opportunity...
I guess you could say that PC is physically containerized. Yo dawg, I heard you like servers, so we put a server in your server so you can host while you host. When I first saw the thumbnail I thought maybe this would be over one of those Xeon Phi coprocessors that got discontinued.
X TO THE Z!
It would be nice if you could somehow get the PCs talking through PCIe
7:11 that completely breaks the use case I imagined - a low-power system living inside a higher power server, acting as some sort of proxy with access to some storage, running some applications and only waking up the higher-power system if needed. for example it would serve the plex just fine but would call for the main system if higher transcode capacity is needed etc.
Install it in a DAS, that hosts a empty MB for PCIe power?
@@benjiro8793 that might do it yeah
It could probably be sidestepped by using a separate power supply, but then that defeats certain use cases because there'd be an obvious PSU sticking outside of the case with cables running inside and/or the side door would be removed, sort of like what I had to do with my NAS where I have a separate PSU powering the storage devices because the 1U PSU in the case couldn't provide enough power without drives randomly disconnecting and reconnecting in Linux.
Phanteks makes some dual system power supplies that let each system sleep independently. You might have to tinker to get it working 100% properly with a "system" that lacks a 24-pin connector, but I can't imagine it's impossible.
@@kbhasithere exist cases that have 2 power supply slots.
Yo dawg, I heard you like home servers so we put a home server in your home server so you can home server while you home server
beat me to it
A pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a pc within a p- Wait, why is there an AMD PC in here!?
11:03 - This is your sign to use another Minecraft launcher. I personally use Prism Launcher.
I guess I prefer MultiMC due to customisation.
@@PyroBlank they are literally the same, but I prefer prism as you can get it as flatpak.
@@PyroBlankI originally use MultiMC as well!
The NUC 9 Extreme I have uses the i7-9750H.
It is a 6 core 12 thread running at 2.6Ghz with a Turbo of 4.5Ghz.
It is a great little home server with support for 3 M. 2 NVMe drives.
The daughter board can support 128GB of RAM and has 2 M.2 slots.
The Pro daughter board version comes with Xeon processors while the Exteme version comes with i5, i7 or i9 core processor.
The i7 is the 9750H.
Who needs hypervisors when you can spin up a local device....
Haha i felt weird saying "host machine" in a physical sense
The trying to detect country thing is a bug that happened on different installs on different hardware. So it's not a problem of the PCIE Nuc :) The fix is always just unplugging the network cable
man i almost wanna buy this just to have people come and ask i have double gpus and tell them no, i have double PCs
Hey great to see that you did a video on it! I've been using it for a couple months now and it's amazing!
You should take a look at DPUs too for similar usecases, though they tend to be very much data center oriented.
Cue all the "yo dawg i hear you like to..." memes from "Pimp My Ride". Maybe you can get Xzibit to cameo in your next video.
I have a couple of Seasonic PSUs and they have the same PSU side plug for EPS and PCIE so adding more EPS is a snap.
This would be real interesting to put several in mining rig.
This looks like a great option for conserving space. Thank you for reminding me that this exists and for showing us how versatile it can be!
The Amazon review wasn't from Jeff, it was from "other" Jeff, per Craft Computing 😂
Hahahaha
🤔
Does that mean Red Shirt Jeff is other other Jeff?
@@JeffGeerling The people have spoken.
😂😂 Jeffception happening here
Very nice idea. I wished i knew this when i had my desktop. I had always been thinking that the box could use another computer to manage other things. I liked the idea. Now i have a solution if i go down that path again.
That proxmox installation issue "trying to detect country..." is a proxmox thing I think. Had that
Its an Alien parasite! Once it hatches little PC eggs, it burst through your host server's case and start running inside the room! 😱😂
Looking forward to the next video regarding this case. Looks pretty solid. I’m just curious if those fans are good enough to move air through the drive bays.
Cool idea and video, Colten! This is actually a very interesting use case.
And most important- ECC support! 😊
love the concept, one like this with a dummy bracket to plug in the pcie slot but run off of the an 8 pin pcie directly would be awesome!
I'm glad you actually taped off the PCIe bus. I've seen people do this with the skulltrail nuc board and almost none of them taped off the PCIe bus.
You really need to get a Dremel with a cutoff wheel for modifying those cases. They don't make sharp edges like tin snips do.
But the do spit metal shavings all over the place...
Snips create a LOT less metal dust though. I suspect he didn't feel like totally dismantling the PC to protect components from metal dust when 10 seconds of snipping would be just as effective (just less pretty...)
There's a big difference between a project that I plan to keep and a project that I teardown the week after I publish the video, lol
the dark rock case looks like a real winner - so much hdd space
She's a beauty! I'm excited to make a video on it.
It seems like a really cool system. Max homelab kudos pts this one .
Why all these pins if you need to tape them?
your videos always help with this late pc lab session, never change ur schedule!!... or at least for 1 final week lol
Looks like the NUC has a USB-C header you could route to your front panel too, not a bad idea
What I'd like to see is some sort of firmware where you could enable it to act as a PCI-e device instead of host. That would be useful to use to talk back to the host for various things directly.
Especially given the lack of 2.5/10Gbe. There are some M.2 2.5Gbe Ethernet adapters so creating a higher speed link to the system isn't impossible, but at a certain point I feel like you'd be better off running a Phanteks P600s or other dual system case and running two full PCs, each with full PCIe x16 expansion
Fun video and definitely worth a look. If these were "purpose built" to do this (which they ALMOST are) I feel like it would be more viable. If there was more "interface" between the main system and the "Daughter" system such as KVM passthrough or at least some monitoring and controls I feel like it would be excellent. However with the lack of interface and the cost OFTEN not being cheap, a smaller nuc PC, and old optiplex with a cheap quadro or ARC card, OR a custom ITX build would all make more sense as a dedicated streaming PC or Low power home server.
Same module but with i7 has been in use for 2 years. Works well. The main thing is that the "mother" system always supplies power to it 3.3. Fast reboots or other things that can interrupt power should be banned.
Additionaly all NUC9 modules support SATA drives. You just need to buy simple connector.
And because I have only one pci-e there is no need to use capton tape.
“What is this, a server for ants?”
I have a question, is it possible to use pcie pass through to use the 1st system's gpu on the nuc card
Quick question, why don't you like running services on your NAS?
cool use case would be putting it inside your main pc and then connecting all your drives to that instead of the main pc and making that the nas. that way you have no issues when changing os's or when windows updates decide to brick your pc.
I've had this exact same idea as well. Originally I was searching for a hardware RAID card capable of doing raid 5 or 6, since that would be the only solution that would work on a multi os system.
I something like this pc card just appeared as a network card to the host pc, communication would also be taken care of.
Haha, this reminds me of the nubus accelerator boards used on the old Macs where they were literally another Mac on a nubus card, they were mainly for running multiple processors back when cpus only had one core.
Yoooooo I haven't seen a cryorig cooler in YEARS
This is actually a really smart, you can use this as a gateway and external services host for your main rig. A kind of integrated "networking condom" as a turn of phrase, and still have it supply other things like as mentioned, game servers. In my case I'd probably use it to host my usual private servers, because I'm the kind of pseudo-antisocial weirdo that enjoys playing MMOs solo, but MMO private server software tends to dislike running on the same OS as the client connecting to it (something latency compensation related? Iunno.)
with this price point thats really cool
good to know this is even an option
you could use that hardware passthrough to pass through the igpu (or more preferably the virtual feature (vf) of the igpu) in order to do stuff like plex transcoding or run hardware acclerated remote desktop in a vm.
The concept of having an auxiliary/secondary processing unit is something I have been contemplating. If we could set the device to act as a slave processor instead of an individual computer, then you might be able to increase your computational workload.
A GPU is basically a specialized computer designed to process objects on your screen. The key difference here, though, is that now you have a general purpose processor that can be assigned tasks while your primary CPU is occupied.
Say you have a game running. Both the CPUs can share the workload of computing what's happening, relieving stress from your main chip. But then, you suddenly remember that you also need to render your video, or compile that code you have to push out. Not to worry, the main CPU can take over processing the game while the auxiliary CPU starts computing the other job. You experience no throttling, and you can effectively multitask.
And if you have a system like the NUC, you also have additional RAM to pull from instead of having to share from a pool. It isolates the data and keeps the jobs separate to ensure they don't bog each other down. Throw in storage, and now your auxiliary system can operate as a completely isolated system if need be, while also under the direct control of the main board. Its like having a botnet, but without the networking (technically).
Imagine the two systems doing cloud computing internally within the same system, accelerating your overall performance, having redundant systems that you can rely on (monitors tend to have two or more ports, so why not use them?), and even opening a way to have two users safely access the same drive, at the same time? Why wouldn't you want this upgrade?
I wonder if you could get networking working over PCIe. That would enable you to use these to build compute clusters. It would be nice to get more cores for a VM server by just throwing in a couple of these.
Do you have a mesh commander video that helps get Admin Control working, I keep getting Client Control and requires pascode
One thing I didn't see mentioned in this video (I could have missed it so if I did, ignore this) is that single board PCs that you put in expansion slots is not by any means a new concept. It was more common for business / server network use in the 80s and 90s, but there were specific cards that were essentially single-board PCs with older for the sake of basically having support for older DOS applications that required a slower processor like an 8088 or a 486 depending on the use case and the hardware the card was made to work with. Since backwards compatibility is the name of the game in large-scale business computing, I imagine it was super useful having the actual hardware necessary to run some old but specifically necessary programs for certain tasks. DOS emulation and VMs weren't exactly as much of a thing during that period, so it made sense to basically slap a whole other PC into an ISA/PCI slot and use that instead.
I could be misremembering, but I recall seeing a showcase of a card for the Apple II that was basically made for running programs for different 8-bit computers on it.
oh wow, pretty killer as a diy budget compute blade setup tiny hpc high availability
I never knew about these things a few years ago. It's like a modern evolution of those 486 or pentium sbc's that slotted into a pci or Isa backplane.
I have waited *such* a long time for something like this.
This plugged into a Zimaboard based NAS would be a hell of a portable lab 🤔
I picked up the i7 BC are bones version of NUC 9 Extreme a few years ago for £480.
I installed 64GB of RAM and a 1TB Samsung 970 EVO and I run it as a Home Server with Windows Server 2022 Data center.
After I got it the price went back up to £950.
imagine it can be hooked up with a 2 way sli bridge to a second one and alongside with a dedicated gpu to the motherboard pcie slot.
My Minecraft Launchers (Both the MS Store one and the older Installer one) broke a while ago, so I started using 3rd party launchers, and now use Prisim Launcher
Thank you for anaother insight.
Quite interesting PC I must say! Dunno how practical, but yeah, pretty cool! :D
Thanks for the video!
Amiga 2000 with a 286 bridgeboard did this many years ago
My biggest question is _how_ would one go about using this as a streaming PC inside a gaming PC? Like obviously it should be powerful enough to run OBS and stream, by the only hurdle I see is how would you capture video with the NUC? Realistically I guess you could use like a cheap Elgato Camlink dongle and feed an HDMI cable around from your GPU, but that feels a bit clunky.
Reminds me of the "X86 system on a PCI card" that used to be somewhat popular in the PPC Mac days.
Since you're covering most of the pins, think this could work with one of the mining risers and stick it in a x1 slot? That way can use the other x16 slots for "real" cards and have the nuc in a box card too!
You wouldn't need to plug it into any of the motherboard's PCIe slots if you're using a mining adapter. This device is only using the PCIe slot to supply power in this use case. That's why he taped over the data pins in the video.
I used to have a Apple DOS Compatible Card in my Quadra 700. It contains a 486 CPU and related components. :)
That’s pretty cool! I coumd picture it as a built in router/firewall so you could have everything in one machine?
Ooh that seems scary...
- says the guy running a router in a VM
Just a heads up, the link for 'T Tech' is missing from the desc. Loving the vid so far :)
Fixed!
aaaah i been drooling over one of those for a loong time buty always so expensive. was so happy when i see you say 150 for it, then i go to see in the link and its 240 + tax + shipping +++ etc :/
10:40 you can pass through an extra nvme as well since there are 2.
true!
I would like to see an army of these installed on a mining rig case since you can just not plug the riser into a host system but still supply power.
now that I see this.. this sparks some ideas for density. fractal design case, mini IT board for TrueNAS, and populate the rest of the slots with these. services for daaaaaayyys
New video! love these videos!
Glad you like them!
Will this function properly in a 4-lane PCIe slot?
You should do a video on mapping a network drive so that Jellyfin can pull files from it. You have to mount the drives in the host OS and that isn't explained anywhere very well.
i feel like something like this could be nice for a print farm. with this as a hub of sorts for multiple printers. though i would want to get a cheaper model maybe in the $60-$100 range.
you didn't have to cut your case btw, just could've used the thunderbolt/type c to hdmi adaptor
so added ram work's with the igpu. but you have to set this to work fine through all the on board ram !!! A.K.A. ram timing's !!!
Three of that seem s to take on Prox cluster. But with no power redundancy.
can you make the intel nuc run graphical processes
quick question as i'm currently upgrading all 6 drives in my truenas scale nas
if i have raidz2, can i swap 2 drives at a time to run resilvering just 3 times (7-8h) instead of waiting 15 full hours (2,5h/drive) to do it one at a time?
i don't have another board/psu with enough sata to do it properly
Not sure... sorry! I would check on the forums
That would risk losing all of your data if anything went wrong in the resilver process because you would have zero redundancy the entire time and ZFS can't fix errors in that situation. I think it is possible, but it's probably not recommended. An old SAS card or a SATA card is pretty cheap these days, can you not fit one into a computer to connect both arrays at once and copy over?
@@5467nick i don't have a psu with 12 sata plugs, or even a case that can hold 12 drives, and i already did it one at a time
@@5467nick i don't have a psu with enough sata plugs for 12 drives nor a case that can hold them all, and i already did it one by one
i don't have a psu with enough sata plugs for 12 drives nor a case that can hold them all, and i already did it one by one
with some capture cards, 3 monitors , 2 of these , a good psu and a good main system this could be very useful for local multiplayer, almost like a console.
oh and 3 minecraft accounts and something like essential mod
can it run in a mobo without a cpu will all the pci pins in contact?
I really really like the Nas idea. I will most likley do this some day.
Is there any way you could keep the NUC alive if the host computer is idle? To me that is a deal breaker
Seems like an ideal unit to use as a dedicated VPN endpoint (or server).
So im dense, do you actually need the PCI slot? My question is, i guess, would the second system work if I had it just "Dangling" inside my system
You need it for power, but there’s nothing happening data-wise
@@HardwareHaven Gotcha!
I've literally been studying this for a decade .........they can make mobos like this
since you're not using the host pcie lanes why not use the other pcie slot which has less lanes or slower. you will end up cutting both bars on the long run... think twice cut once.
personally I would have used a 1x slot or a pcie extender and mounted it to the vertical slot pcie slot in your particular case.
Probably defaults to x8 for both PCIe slots when 2 cards inserted anyway.
@@eric4903 it doesn't work like that for the 1st slot. on atx boards with 3 slots the last 16x will auto switch from 4x or whatever to 2x2x or 1x1x1x1x when other 1x slots are used.
@@eric4903 that's bifurcation and you either need a pcie bifurcation board and set it in bios - if you plan on using multiple pcie cards on the same slot OR use a pcie device that suports bifurcation natively asus hyperx comes to mind from 16x slot to 4x nvme
I want to try this i run dayz servers and have a dedicated computer for each server. With this style i could have all 3 servers running in the same machine.
If you got 2 Nr200p cases like Linus did, you can complete a 1 case, 4 pcs build!
I considered getting one of those little HDMI plug PCs or something just to go 3 deep haha
Good way to add a Tor node to your NAS
It would be much more useful if this card PC can be used as a real PCIe peripheral device to the host computer to accelerate some specific jobs.
That guy Jeff is really good with computer stuff too.
It is a so missed opportunity to allow the NUC to operate in a PCIe-NT bridge mode, or in a device-mode. This way, one could make a pcie-pcie connection with the host.
that is the perfect for my Project Zemie
What I want is a card like this that just acts as a resource card for VMs... I.e my host system is ARM and this thing just sits there untill I want a vm running on X86 cores. or the opposite X86 host with arm cores on pcie. Mixed architecture VM server would be amazing.