The audio is bad for the first 3 minutes. I had the wrong microphone selected. 0:00 Intro 2:02 Jordan joins 5:06 The Main Event experience 13:45 The laptop/RTA controversy 28:10 NGC violations, DQ? Lawsuit? 31:44 Dominik Nitsche, Tamayos rail 35:02 The earpiece, Tournaments vs Cash games 42:23 Outro
@@HBSurferH2O It might be an advantage, but it wasn’t prohibited (in written rules provided to players). Compare the 2017 Houston Astros, where there was a clear written order from the MLB, who did everything they could to HIDE the fact they were cheating. I agree it’s a bad look, but so was Ivey’s edge reading at baccarat.
@drbryant23 terrible comparison and him being fed info through his ear bud during play, if proven true, is definitely cheating. Ivey asked them not to change the decks and they agreed. He never touched the cards. Only used an amazing memory to gain an edge. Totally different scenarios bucko
My biggest takeaway from this interview is that Griff is treating it with enormous class, and that’s only going to translate to more vitriol toward Tamayo
If you take out the solver, this has been a thing ever since the November Nine started. Players started hiring coaches and they would constantly go over hands after the fact at the FT. This isn’t new and it’s impossible to stop unless you lock the players in a cage and don’t let them out until the FT is over. You’re trying to say they shouldn’t be able to discuss strategy with people ever? Get real.
@@Kanders190 He’s saying people shouldn’t be able to use solvers between hands, or otherwise. A rule which was explicitly stated during the main event itself.
@@Kanders190I agree with them being able to discuss strategy with other people. Do you think players should be able to use solvers during and in-between hands?
I agree - playing against a top player hu is tough enough - he's good enough on his own - he doesn't need everyone in the world and a solver. But at the end of the day, they're playing for 4m - they'll take every edge to win
The more I think about this, the worse it gets. You had 10,000+ ppl enter, 9,000+ or so who were probably amateurs. One of those amateurs makes it to the final table, and then to heads up! (shouldn't really call it "heads-up"; more like rails-up). And he is met with pros, computers, solvers, ear pieces and lord knows what. This is the one time in the year plain folks like me have an opportunity to live out their dreams, and this is what they run up against. Sad.
Im pretty sure it says no Headphones or ear pieces at final table. Dude broke more than 1 rule. Strip thew title and give him 2nd place money. Griff the CHAMP!
The even was relayed live at most of monitors there as far i know. Anyone with a laptop can see the hands with little delay. Even if its 30 min delay, who see the hand can adjust strategy. The whole Ft was a scam.
The problems with this are (i) it's not in the written rules; so it isn't entirely clear; and (ii) they were using the laptop in front of all the officials, who simply let it go. Their assumption would be that the WSOP would enforce the rules and since they are doing nothing, then it is an edge that is permitted.
They make that same announcement before EVERY tournament at WSOP. It was cheating, and the Floor should have stopped it. WSOP needs to address this, and there should be a penalty for Tamayo, Nietsche, and McKeon.
@@tannerdimick5802"Players at the WSOP will be penalized if they are caught using or referencing a solver during a live hand." They only said tournament area on an intercom but it's not in the official rules. The official rules supercede some woman on an intercom.
Nothing was hidden. It's wrong, but Griff had opportunity to report/complain. And floor had clear vision of the situation. Both parties chose to ignore accept it. If there was ANY attempt to hide, then retroactive penalty is justified, but this was clearly in the open, so no takesies-backsies
i did find this video rather hard to follow because i dont know who any of those guys are, and i dont know their "response", he should have shown that in the video
No, Tomayo would NOT be a good ambassador for the game. He was so obviously angry by Griff's unconventional play, which I loved, and to find out that he was so casual about cheating will forever be attached to his name.
The ear piece is the shadiest part imo. How do we know he wasn't whispering his hand or something too. He was clearly getting some sort of information.
@@TomPrefontaine Agree. It's also the most no-question-it's-against-the-rules part of it. Even the laptop part can sort of be explained away with "it's not helping him DURING a hand so we'll let it go." Not saying that absolves Tamayo and team, it's just defense he can make. But Griff even mentioned the tourney staff's not allowing headphones on the tertiary table earlier, so it flat out should not be on the FT.
Tamatos bracelet will always have an asterisk! Watching Tomayo go to his sweaty solver rail constantly was so cringe to watch live. All of the all ins were: Griff holding his wife's hand and being with his friends vs: Tamayo looking at laptop charts with 5 nerdy poker pros. It literally felt like good vs evil lol. There were also a ton of moments where a hand would conclude and Tamayo would turn around and ask what he should have done, or should do in situations. Just a horrendous look for WSOP!
@@whodidit99 There are other things in the world that matter besides money. Having the respect of a community you are apart of is important, and after this his reputation has taken a huge hit.
Doug Polk: "Were you concerned with the laptop being used to help Tamayo"? Jordan Griff: " I was mainly concerned with playing my game" Internet: "we got you Jordan...."
I saw some videos of earlier games, and clearly shows a lot people using laptops, ipads, and phones to check on the probabilities. If it was a concern, then it should have been brought up with the judges. You cannot bring it up, a day after the game. To some it appears to be sour grapes, to someone who got out played in the final hand. The use of electronic devices, specially phones is hard to control, but definitely no use of any kind of earphones, earbuds, or any listening device can be used by the players during the game. It is unfair to accuse Tamayo of some kind of cheating when there is no proven evidence, but only hunches.
It’s not up to the players to police what’s going on but the WSOP officials. WTF is going on here ? They should give Griff another $4 million, they probably can’t take the money away from Tamayo but something needs to be done. I’d disqualify him from any future WSOP tournaments. He’s got his $10 million.
youre not a real poker player if thats how you feel. poker players are some of the most generous people ever because they know how you feel. im truly sorry if thats your experience. theres good n evil in everyone...
No doubt about it. I feel the same way. Just like Griff was saying, sometimes you're at some great tables, but it's a crapshoot. I've been at tables with some extremely questionable people that I wouldn't ever want to associate with.
Seems like more shady people in poker than not shady. Literally almost every huge poker player as been apart of a scandle. Negranue poker go. Phil Ivey being sued by casinos. Phil helmuyh that bit coin. And the list goes on
@stevesherm260 are you sure about that? The wsop may not have had written rules about it but Nevada and its gaming commissions rules possibly do eg. NRS 465.075 Use or possession of device, software or hardware to obtain advantage at playing game prohibited. It is unlawful for any person to use, possess with the intent to use or assist another person in using or possessing with the intent to use any computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that: 1. Projects the outcome of the game; 2. Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game; 3. Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or 4. Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game.
This dude is such a positive breath of fresh air to the poker community and I think he was wronged by those other cheaters with the computers and whatnot. Sad, very sad to see this.
Agreed. And it's a damn shame all the poker gods had to do was let 77 beat KT to have a totally deserving, awesome amateur winner with personality instead of a very dull pro who arguably cheated. It also would have prevented this from being the main story. This is truly the worst timeline.
No he is avoiding all the real questions cause he does not want his money taken back. I played and was clearly cheated and am suing for my 10k but in returned
@@slowery43 Don't be offended by this. He's not a dork because he's using a computer, he's a dork because he's trying to have the computer win for him instead of engaging in a fair human contest.
Whether they broke specific rules or not isn't the critically relevant point. Jonathan Tamayo and his buddies broke the law. Specifically, they violated NRS 465.075. And they violated the law to the detriment of Jordan Griff and the other final table players. Jordan should retain legal counsel and sue Jonathan Tamayo and company - he has clear damages here. As should the other final table participants. With his legal counsel, he should also explore suing the casino - they have an affirmative obligation to provide a legal gaming environment. The casino allowed Tamayo and his cadre of punks to openly and brazenly violate the law and did absolutely nothing about it. Clear negligence.
Tamayo clearly broke the rules but I more so blame WSOP for doing a pathetic job enforcing them. I don’t believe anything should be done retroactively, what happened happened and if the floor didn’t make a ruling in real time you can’t alter the result. Ultimately It’s just a terrible look for WSOP, they were essentially asleep at the wheel and failed to uphold an explicit rule. We can argue about whether It made any difference in the result, but I think everyone should agree that all players should be held to the same rules by tournament officials.
What a genuine, stand-up, straight-up guy.....! Considering he has potentially been 'swindled' out of $4 MIL....!!!! RESPECT to him both for his run and not being drawn on the 'scandel' and not throwing shade. Good on you Bro
First: get healthy. You DID look sickly! Second: Griff seems like a pretty good guy and already established a plan for the 6 million. Sounded like he won’t go broke until he mentioned the newborn. They cost MONEY! Third: I think it’s BS allowing computers into the torurnament area. The best remedy would ban cellphones and other electronic devices. It would prevent collusion, use of poker software, etcetera and some dummy watching a movie while everybody waits for him to act. After this WSOP better ban computers. In fact, if they banned all electronic devices, that’d be fine.
Captain Laptop is hurting the future of poker by making it such a turn-off to casuals. I don't blame him, I'd have an army of sweats at my side for a potential $10M, but WSOP really should do something about it.
That ear bud during play is hella suspicious. Then the way they took it out of his ear to pass to someone else to hide it only doubles down . They were feeding him info during play.
Nope ain't happening... But kinda dumb for his team to be blatantly cheating live with many cameras watching. If nobody in wsop didn't anything during play, can't wait til someone win the tournament then claim foul. Can't have a negative freeroll. But the main point here is... If mckeehan and Dom are this opening cheating while millions of eyeball is watching wonder what they do when they're playing online 🤨
@@baosommurr4566 WSOP are adamant that no rule was broken. If you're going to convince anyone that you know better than the floor, you'll have to at least quote the rule. Just because you don't like it doesn't make illegal.
All caps, even. That's some real internet passion right there. Look, if the other players had an issue with it, THEY SHOULD HAVE SPOKEN UP. Going forward, is the WSOP going to allow access to gto solvers? Doubtful. It looked atrocious.
Rooted for Jordan because we have the same name and he’s a non pro. It’s nice to see a regular Joe possibly win the WSOP. Was really annoyed seeing tamayos gang of nerds give him an unfair edge.
The same way Hellmuth never gets penalized despite the various "don't berate other players, don't curse at the table" the entire rule book goes out the window when well known pros are involved. Good for this amateur for still winning 6 million, but recs should be well aware, the casinos won't just look the other way to help their pros part you from money, they'll actively help them.
Jordan seems like such a genuine and good guy, a great ambassador for the game. Something about a guy who’s still showing up to his day job even after all the success he just had, that is not only admirable, but inspiring for a lot of us.
@@Kanders190 I'll cut you some slack and assume you're 14 years old. Any civil litigator who isn't a moron would salivate at the potential this case brings and would take the case on contingency.
Everyone should be implicated, any company affiliated with Dominic, the software company, WSOP, certainly Tamayo, Nevada Gaming. Jordan needs to stop publicly discussing this and consult someone ASAP for proper investigation including the headphone use.
@@martinedwards4522that I’m unsure of. I do know that we were informed he was adding a hoodie to cover up some neck tells he was giving off. Coming from him specifically during break of first day final table when talking with him via txt.
This comment has no context, are you saying it as it was exposed and not hiding it or are you saying it as they’re guilty from the first hand, this is inoccuous comment with no defined context.
I was surprised they even let phones on the table, and allowing a lap top on the rails is ridiculous. Go back to no phones for players and no laptops or help from the audience
Jordan may want to seek some legal advice to actually find out if any rules were violated. Running Sims near to the final table by your rail, the passing of the ear bud, etc. Of course some ethical issues might also come into play here. Definitely changes need to take place here. Poker players always trying to get that edge or +ev. Congratulations on your finish Jordan.
Is it not way more than a scandal? Isn't device cheating in the casino a bunch of felonies? How is this guy not already in prison? Using a device during the hand, is much different than “studying”. Not like this is a basic strategy card in Blackjack for tourists.
Well, I have a new favorite poker player for sure. Griff is seemingly a legitimately good dude. If he can somehow turn this into a poker career he's gonna go very far.
Griff actually played amazing… had some really aggressive lines and looked like he knew what he was doing…his image also helped him and his lines appeared outside the box…i like his term of “street poker” ..he would have been a Chris moneymaker-type of ambassador as he was a recreational player like moneymaker was when he won…
Technology has ruined the game in so many ways that it outweighs any of the good it has produced. What a different comradery and vibe the game used to have before cell phones. Fast forward to today with gto, solvers, charts, sims, etc. - It's killed a lot of what I used to love about the game. I know this sounds crazy, but people used to socialize A LOT at the tables, cash OR tourney - I desperately miss that - and now, people all have earbuds, hoodies, shades, and the glow of a fkn cellphone on their faces.
Really a win - win for griff to pursue legal action , whose poker community behind you, a free roll for more money and a positive change for the poker community
Great interview, I really wish Jordan could have been the face of the main event champion. Excited for tomorrow Doug, maybe Dnegs and Keating can put together a legal team and press the issue further. Win or lose it will be good for the game to stand up to this.
I had no idea who Jordan Griff was, I’m sure not many people would. But wow, am I impressed by how he is handling being mixed up in this massive controversy. As I didn’t buy the FT, the last I saw he had a 4:1 chip advantage. Then the images of the laptop screen started popping up. Well done to Griff and I’m sure this will not be his last successful endeavor, on the felt or off. I have been saying most rules violations involve a player calling the floor. And had it been another pro heads up, they likely would have asked for a ruling at some point. I think my position, made in comments of other videos on the topic, could be a touch unfair. Either way, huge congrats to Griff. I loved the analysis regarding the overbet jam. We’ve all been there, thinking could I even get away if another scare card comes off? Hold the betting advantage and perhaps realize some fold equity in the process. The difference is, he was able to be that introspective in the midst of what was likely the biggest financial decision of his life. Super impressive, and well well done!
Not doing a live stream and instead opting for a delayed release would solve a big portion of this. It's a shame that PokerGo now has the production rights rather than ESPN.
What is the delay from live to the stream. Now Im curious about that airpod. His buddy had the stream up. So if it's mostly live he would have had what each hang was. I assumed it was the guys on the rail had the airpod in listening to the stream. They had to feel they weren't cheating. How could you and be so blatenly obvious if you knew you were cheating
The coolest WSOP main event final table scene ever: Stu Ungar with the round shades winning in 1997. The absolute lamest scene ever: The guy who won this year with his dork friend on his laptop.
Respect for this guy. Didn’t try to take the win away from the winner. Instead clarified that ear piece was Joe’s and photo could be from a different day. He didn’t just grab the opportunity but is happy with his 2nd place win. WSOP needs to make decisions but this was a great interview.
What a bunch of BS!!! The laptop was bad but the earpiece was way over the top RTA! WSOP needs to address this immediately. Anything else is just an embarrassment!
Using a computer to win doesn't make you a good poker player it'll make you money if that's your only goal then ok but don't consider yourself an elite player. Same as in the professional fishing tournaments they use 20,000 dollar live scopes to find fish and then target them. That approach wins money but doesn't make them good fisherman. Take away the electronics and see how they do.
Why would Tamayo blatantly break all these rules? Right out in the open. WOW..This guy deserves to get disqualified for the entire tournament. Take all his money. Shit like this makes me and a lot of others not want to play poker
Either this is a human endeavour or it isn’t. Players sit down and use their wits moment to moment. If it’s not that, then f@ck it. I guess all the players can just write a program with an algorithm to send in to the tournament organizers that makes all the decision for them, and computers can run the the whole thing with all hands on TV screens. The tournament could be finished in a few hours, and no one one would even have to be there. Checks in the mail to the winners. The end.
I think for a final table, if a team uses solvers it's a huge advantage to them. They can conceivably build profiles of every player on that table with how they bet, how they deviate from gto etc. They then can show the player playing who can adjust his plays to each person based on this. Then once it gets closer, they can focus on the one person your player will be up against.
If it didn't give an edge then they wouldn't do it. Having someone else use a solver for you should be treated exactly the same as using the solver yourself.
Thats why i dont play much live tournaments bc you get such low volume even if your edge is massive i could play 20+ tournaments online in the same amount of time
Great interview Doug! Jordan comes across as a great rounded individual. More power to him and I hope he enjoys fatherhood and gets his deserved bracelet, either by default or in future ventures, looking forward to the Dnegs/Keating interview
Problem with new players in cash is they start at $1-2. But here in the Dallas area $1-2 runs more like $2-5,5-10 at times and they get "shell shocked" no one folds for a raise, even a large one.
Was in Dallas last week for the first time. Played the wildest $1-2 I've ever played. When one guy jammed $300 into a $26 pot preflop and got called. I kindly said have a nice day and left.
Best Doug-Quote in this video: "he decided to ..I'm gonna just go as far into the sand as I can" -😆😆😆 / And thank you for addressing PokerGo's scandalous paywall for the WSOP Main Event.
How can poker be considered a mind game if you can use solvers, even between hands? What a shame! If we simple open Equilab while PS client is running (not necessarily playing), we get a warning imediatly. That was terrible for poker!
Wonderful love this conversation, so many great points! We feel for Jordans situation, and Polk you set this up well and kept us entertained while addressing a serious topic! All the best to both of you! Ken
Demand what answers lol? God the entitlement is real. Nobody is denying what he did, what “answers” can he give to appease the mob of recs and casuals screaming for him to forfeit the win? The issue is if it broke the rules which is borderline at best since this is a relatively new issue and the WSOP didn’t have a clear rule on it.
@@Kanders190 They literally ruled that “No use of solvers are allowed at the table or in the tournament area, under threat of DQ” Wtf are you talking about?
For the record: This is not a tournament poker thing. I am a half-time professional online poker player (and half-time supermarket worker) and I don't think that tournament players are as evil as Griff points them out to be. With that being said: Tamayo and Nitsche should be punished, the rules should be enforced more strictly and I wish Griff would have won the HU once my favourite Niklas Astedt went out in third place. That was a very good interview. All the best to both of you!
The audio is bad for the first 3 minutes. I had the wrong microphone selected.
0:00 Intro
2:02 Jordan joins
5:06 The Main Event experience
13:45 The laptop/RTA controversy
28:10 NGC violations, DQ? Lawsuit?
31:44 Dominik Nitsche, Tamayos rail
35:02 The earpiece, Tournaments vs Cash games
42:23 Outro
lol I was just gonna comment that if u need audio guy I got u.
It happens. Thanks for the content!
That’s not GTO…
wow doug first day on the job eh
😂@@yissssss
What Tamayo (a pro) did to win against a recreational player is pretty pathetic. This is a bad look for the game and the WSOP.
Yeah stinks of not been able to use own mind to play
couldn't agree more
@@HBSurferH2O It might be an advantage, but it wasn’t prohibited (in written rules provided to players). Compare the 2017 Houston Astros, where there was a clear written order from the MLB, who did everything they could to HIDE the fact they were cheating. I agree it’s a bad look, but so was Ivey’s edge reading at baccarat.
@drbryant23 terrible comparison and him being fed info through his ear bud during play, if proven true, is definitely cheating.
Ivey asked them not to change the decks and they agreed. He never touched the cards. Only used an amazing memory to gain an edge.
Totally different scenarios bucko
Tomayo Tomato same thing
My biggest takeaway from this interview is that Griff is treating it with enormous class, and that’s only going to translate to more vitriol toward Tamayo
No
I suppose its easier to take when he's got a consolation prize of 6million
@@nicekevincope
@@lukeeasty I mean, we are talking about a 4 million usd payjump so yk...grain of salt
It’s called heads up. Not me VS you, a former world champ, a team of number crunchers, the internet, the stream, the hand history and a solver.
If you take out the solver, this has been a thing ever since the November Nine started. Players started hiring coaches and they would constantly go over hands after the fact at the FT. This isn’t new and it’s impossible to stop unless you lock the players in a cage and don’t let them out until the FT is over. You’re trying to say they shouldn’t be able to discuss strategy with people ever? Get real.
@@Kanders190 He’s saying people shouldn’t be able to use solvers between hands, or otherwise. A rule which was explicitly stated during the main event itself.
@@Kanders190I agree with them being able to discuss strategy with other people. Do you think players should be able to use solvers during and in-between hands?
I agree - playing against a top player hu is tough enough - he's good enough on his own - he doesn't need everyone in the world and a solver.
But at the end of the day, they're playing for 4m - they'll take every edge to win
i dont think many people have problems with coaches. given the situation, this wasn't just coaching.
The more I think about this, the worse it gets. You had 10,000+ ppl enter, 9,000+ or so who were probably amateurs. One of those amateurs makes it to the final table, and then to heads up! (shouldn't really call it "heads-up"; more like rails-up). And he is met with pros, computers, solvers, ear pieces and lord knows what. This is the one time in the year plain folks like me have an opportunity to live out their dreams, and this is what they run up against. Sad.
It’s pretty pathetic he needed all this to beat an amateur!
Im pretty sure it says no Headphones or ear pieces at final table. Dude broke more than 1 rule. Strip thew title and give him 2nd place money. Griff the CHAMP!
@@GH100GH💯
@@patsheridan extremely annoying!!! Wrong grounds 4 DISQUALIFICATION
Think Rock IV, Rocky training vs Drago training.
They did break the rules. They literally had MonkerSolver on the rail and Tamayo LOOKED AT IT.
It's a scandal.
The even was relayed live at most of monitors there as far i know. Anyone with a laptop can see the hands with little delay. Even if its 30 min delay, who see the hand can adjust strategy.
The whole Ft was a scam.
The laptop was completely inappropriate.
The problems with this are (i) it's not in the written rules; so it isn't entirely clear; and (ii) they were using the laptop in front of all the officials, who simply let it go. Their assumption would be that the WSOP would enforce the rules and since they are doing nothing, then it is an edge that is permitted.
@@drbryant23agree
He even touched the screen at one point which amounts to pysically using a solver yourself IMHO.
They make that same announcement before EVERY tournament at WSOP. It was cheating, and the Floor should have stopped it. WSOP needs to address this, and there should be a penalty for Tamayo, Nietsche, and McKeon.
Well the rule is you can’t use it during hands
@terencepointer7038 the other part that you're purposefully leaving out was "or in the tournament area"
@@tannerdimick5802"Players at the WSOP will be penalized if they are caught using or referencing a solver during a live hand."
They only said tournament area on an intercom but it's not in the official rules. The official rules supercede some woman on an intercom.
Nothing was hidden.
It's wrong, but Griff had opportunity to report/complain.
And floor had clear vision of the situation.
Both parties chose to ignore accept it.
If there was ANY attempt to hide, then retroactive penalty is justified, but this was clearly in the open, so no takesies-backsies
i did find this video rather hard to follow because i dont know who any of those guys are, and i dont know their "response", he should have shown that in the video
No, Tomayo would NOT be a good ambassador for the game. He was so obviously angry by Griff's unconventional play, which I loved, and to find out that he was so casual about cheating will forever be attached to his name.
The 2024 Main Event winners banner should be a shot of that laptop and the white earbud.
The ear piece is the shadiest part imo. How do we know he wasn't whispering his hand or something too. He was clearly getting some sort of information.
We can all agree on that much.
That would be a winner's banner like an epic art painting👍
@@TomPrefontaine Agree. It's also the most no-question-it's-against-the-rules part of it. Even the laptop part can sort of be explained away with "it's not helping him DURING a hand so we'll let it go." Not saying that absolves Tamayo and team, it's just defense he can make. But Griff even mentioned the tourney staff's not allowing headphones on the tertiary table earlier, so it flat out should not be on the FT.
Предлагаю в его портрет , плевать!!!
Tamatos bracelet will always have an asterisk! Watching Tomayo go to his sweaty solver rail constantly was so cringe to watch live. All of the all ins were: Griff holding his wife's hand and being with his friends vs: Tamayo looking at laptop charts with 5 nerdy poker pros. It literally felt like good vs evil lol. There were also a ton of moments where a hand would conclude and Tamayo would turn around and ask what he should have done, or should do in situations. Just a horrendous look for WSOP!
He won $10M. What does it matter?
@@whodidit99 There are other things in the world that matter besides money. Having the respect of a community you are apart of is important, and after this his reputation has taken a huge hit.
Doug Polk: "Were you concerned with the laptop being used to help Tamayo"?
Jordan Griff: " I was mainly concerned with playing my game"
Internet: "we got you Jordan...."
Great. Already so sick of this nonsense.
I saw some videos of earlier games, and clearly shows a lot people using laptops, ipads, and phones to check on the probabilities. If it was a concern, then it should have been brought up with the judges. You cannot bring it up, a day after the game. To some it appears to be sour grapes, to someone who got out played in the final hand. The use of electronic devices, specially phones is hard to control, but definitely no use of any kind of earphones, earbuds, or any listening device can be used by the players during the game. It is unfair to accuse Tamayo of some kind of cheating when there is no proven evidence, but only hunches.
@@7amboy7blatantly cheated. Disqualify him and the other laptop phone solver cheating Andy's permanently
Withhold his winnings too
It’s not up to the players to police what’s going on but the WSOP officials. WTF is going on here ? They should give Griff another $4 million, they probably can’t take the money away from Tamayo but something needs to be done. I’d disqualify him from any future WSOP tournaments. He’s got his $10 million.
I really like playing poker, but most of the poker world is SO scummy.
youre not a real poker player if thats how you feel. poker players are some of the most generous people ever because they know how you feel. im truly sorry if thats your experience. theres good n evil in everyone...
No doubt about it. I feel the same way. Just like Griff was saying, sometimes you're at some great tables, but it's a crapshoot. I've been at tables with some extremely questionable people that I wouldn't ever want to associate with.
Seems like more shady people in poker than not shady. Literally almost every huge poker player as been apart of a scandle. Negranue poker go. Phil Ivey being sued by casinos. Phil helmuyh that bit coin. And the list goes on
A lot of degenerates in poker.
Facts poker players scum
Wsop dropped the ball on this. It’s a bad look. Period.
Agree 100%
Agreed
Drop nothing homie nothing illegal done
@@stevesherm260dude stay in school. do your homework.. and say Hi to your mother for me
@stevesherm260 are you sure about that? The wsop may not have had written rules about it but Nevada and its gaming commissions rules possibly do eg. NRS 465.075 Use or possession of device, software or hardware to obtain advantage at playing game prohibited. It is unlawful for any person to use, possess with the intent to use or assist another person in using or possessing with the intent to use any computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that:
1. Projects the outcome of the game;
2. Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game;
3. Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game.
Doug's read on the Nevada Gaming rules is crystal clear, no solvers, period...
This dude is such a positive breath of fresh air to the poker community and I think he was wronged by those other cheaters with the computers and whatnot. Sad, very sad to see this.
Agreed.
And it's a damn shame all the poker gods had to do was let 77 beat KT to have a totally deserving, awesome amateur winner with personality instead of a very dull pro who arguably cheated. It also would have prevented this from being the main story. This is truly the worst timeline.
No he is avoiding all the real questions cause he does not want his money taken back. I played and was clearly cheated and am suing for my 10k but in returned
He needs to be disqualified…period….
best line ever long ago by Norm on Joe M. was '...looks like he combed his hair with buttered toast...'
😂 he also said when Joe was 24 (2015) he's build like he's 34😂
The picture of that dork hunched over the laptop pisses me off
good for you, nobody cares this is not about you
@@slowery43lots feel the same way 👍🏼
@@slowery43tamayo?
@@slowery43 Don't be offended by this. He's not a dork because he's using a computer, he's a dork because he's trying to have the computer win for him instead of engaging in a fair human contest.
Jordan is such a smart, classy, level-headed, and well spoken person. Tamayo should be DQ'd and Jordan should be named champion.
Classy and level-headed, agreed. Seems like a great guy to have as an ambassador for the game.
I agree with. Also it is actually a fraud... so it could be very bad for them, like 4-5 year sentance...
Agree or disagree, the WSOP needs to step in and make a ruling to avoid something like this in the future.
They didnt see the screen. Now they know
How about the POLICE. If he cheated with a device that is a MASSIVE FELONY
@@DevinArnone yes.
@@oliverjordan695how did they not? And, if that is true, now they know and can act accordingly. Forfeit his win and give it to second place.
They won’t do a damb thing because they want to keep the money coming in on all side. Only if there feet are put to the fire will they do something.
Whether they broke specific rules or not isn't the critically relevant point. Jonathan Tamayo and his buddies broke the law. Specifically, they violated NRS 465.075. And they violated the law to the detriment of Jordan Griff and the other final table players. Jordan should retain legal counsel and sue Jonathan Tamayo and company - he has clear damages here. As should the other final table participants. With his legal counsel, he should also explore suing the casino - they have an affirmative obligation to provide a legal gaming environment. The casino allowed Tamayo and his cadre of punks to openly and brazenly violate the law and did absolutely nothing about it. Clear negligence.
Y E S, 💯. BEST COMMENT, PERIOD.
The third place guy should definitely get a lawyer. Sue these ah's into the ground
I agree. The final players would win in a court of law.
How I see it also and would be surprised if not one of those players let's fly with a lawsuit. They have a solid case.
"Use or possession of device, software or hardware to obtain advantage at playing game prohibited."
Tamayo clearly broke the rules but I more so blame WSOP for doing a pathetic job enforcing them. I don’t believe anything should be done retroactively, what happened happened and if the floor didn’t make a ruling in real time you can’t alter the result. Ultimately It’s just a terrible look for WSOP, they were essentially asleep at the wheel and failed to uphold an explicit rule. We can argue about whether It made any difference in the result, but I think everyone should agree that all players should be held to the same rules by tournament officials.
Except he clearly didn't break the rules. You and everyone else need to cut this shit out.
@@agoo7581looking at the solver is not breaking the rules?
😂😂😂😂
@@agoo7581 Stop embarrassing yourself.
@@agoo7581 what part of “you can’t use solvers in the tournament area” is so difficult for you to understand?
Jordan may have legal action against WSOP.
What a genuine, stand-up, straight-up guy.....!
Considering he has potentially been 'swindled' out of $4 MIL....!!!!
RESPECT to him both for his run and not being drawn on the 'scandel' and not throwing shade.
Good on you Bro
Maybe he wasn't interested in table talk because he was to busy listening to his camp thru his earbud.
Absolutely. Well noticed
That's correct to focus on ear bud keeps you from hearing table talk .
He even answered them at one point it looked like he was talking to himself.Did anybody else not see this....
Jordan is a true gentleman.
With serious bulk purchasing ability.
He was cheated and colluded against, he should sue Caesar’s/WSOP
After the wire officially clears, he could spend a few tens of thousands and sue for the rest. Worth a shot.
such an ignorant but sadly all too common post
Seems like a genuine good dude, I'm happy for him and wish him the best!
i get the impression he grew up in house games which is pretty admirable to get to that stage. and he looks much healthier than the FT 🤙🙏🫶 GG Griff
Dude didn't wear a hoodie on stream UNTIL he puts his hood up has a ear bud in and has a computer behind him. You can deduce that
Holy shit, 💯
Yea he was getting live coached essentially ghosting with 3 other pros IMO not just between hands w a solver..
Joe McKeehan's face tilts me. Seeing him and the nerd virgins on solvers and sims on the rail infuriated me.
It's McKeehen
Lol
Yeah the picture of that dork hunched over the laptop pisses me off
He has such a punchable face
Yeah, but he is a good dresser. He presents himself in a disgraceful manner, even for poker players. So awful.
First: get healthy. You DID look sickly!
Second: Griff seems like a pretty good guy and already established a plan for the 6 million. Sounded like he won’t go broke until he mentioned the newborn. They cost MONEY!
Third: I think it’s BS allowing computers into the torurnament area. The best remedy would ban cellphones and other electronic devices. It would prevent collusion, use of poker software, etcetera and some dummy watching a movie while everybody waits for him to act.
After this WSOP better ban computers. In fact, if they banned all electronic devices, that’d be fine.
final few tables should definitely be sequestered from the rail with no electronics allowed.
Who looked sickly ?
Not really 6 millions. Taxes will eat a good chunk of the money 😏
if they look sickly, i look sicker
@@wangzwangz9173
Talking about Doug I think. Indeed he hasn't looked that healthy lately
Captain Laptop is hurting the future of poker by making it such a turn-off to casuals. I don't blame him, I'd have an army of sweats at my side for a potential $10M, but WSOP really should do something about it.
That ear bud during play is hella suspicious. Then the way they took it out of his ear to pass to someone else to hide it only doubles down .
They were feeding him info during play.
Exactly 👍. And this might be criminal defraud
Yup. Proof of cheating
Tamayo is not playing in the proper spirit of the game. Thumbs down to his entire team as well.
STRIP TAMAYO OF WIN! THIS IS CLEARCUT AGAINST THE RULES!
What rule? WSOP are saying it was kosher.
Nope ain't happening... But kinda dumb for his team to be blatantly cheating live with many cameras watching. If nobody in wsop didn't anything during play, can't wait til someone win the tournament then claim foul. Can't have a negative freeroll.
But the main point here is... If mckeehan and Dom are this opening cheating while millions of eyeball is watching wonder what they do when they're playing online 🤨
@@baosommurr4566that part 😇😬
@@baosommurr4566 WSOP are adamant that no rule was broken. If you're going to convince anyone that you know better than the floor, you'll have to at least quote the rule. Just because you don't like it doesn't make illegal.
All caps, even. That's some real internet passion right there. Look, if the other players had an issue with it, THEY SHOULD HAVE SPOKEN UP.
Going forward, is the WSOP going to allow access to gto solvers? Doubtful. It looked atrocious.
Bad look for poker .. 3 dorks on the rail with a solver on final table
Great interview !
Even pro tennis has no coaching in game. These guys are lames
Who cares dude was gonna win regardless he was better player homie
@@stevesherm260stupid reasoning..
@@oliverjordan695 called fax homie lap top didn’t help him win get woke son
@@stevesherm260 its called cheating sherm it ruins the integrity of the game. Now Get Back To Your Room, Your Mother And I Are Busy...
3:27 for audio fix
I almost didn't watch the video until I saw this comment
Hero.
Same. W comment @@jesterbob828
lol bro got a mic for hundreds of bux & selects the laptop mic for a stream
I've heard of recording video on a potato.. but never heard of recording audio on one 😂🥔
Rooted for Jordan because we have the same name and he’s a non pro. It’s nice to see a regular Joe possibly win the WSOP. Was really annoyed seeing tamayos gang of nerds give him an unfair edge.
The same way Hellmuth never gets penalized despite the various "don't berate other players, don't curse at the table" the entire rule book goes out the window when well known pros are involved. Good for this amateur for still winning 6 million, but recs should be well aware, the casinos won't just look the other way to help their pros part you from money, they'll actively help them.
Thats entertaining for normies when this used to appear on ESPN. This travesty is just nerd shit.
Yep.
This. Don’t even need any other comment
That's much different than felony cheating with a device. tf?
Its not even close to the same
Jordan seems like such a genuine and good guy, a great ambassador for the game. Something about a guy who’s still showing up to his day job even after all the success he just had, that is not only admirable, but inspiring for a lot of us.
next final table will just be 9 laptops at the table and people callin in the actions
Or you could come up with an original comment 😮
Griff should get a lawyer
If Mike Postle's case got thrown out for blatant cheating, do you think a court will give a rat's you know what about a solver?
So he can blow a solid chunk of his winnings on legal fees for a case he can’t win? Sound advice.
@@Kanders190 can find a lawyer who takes the case and only get paid if they win.
Dumbo
@@Kanders190 I'll cut you some slack and assume you're 14 years old. Any civil litigator who isn't a moron would salivate at the potential this case brings and would take the case on contingency.
Everyone should be implicated, any company affiliated with Dominic, the software company, WSOP, certainly Tamayo, Nevada Gaming.
Jordan needs to stop publicly discussing this and consult someone ASAP for proper investigation including the headphone use.
Nah
The laptop was there on the first hand of the Final Table.
@@depalma13 was he wearing the hoodie hiding the earpiece?
@@martinedwards4522that I’m unsure of. I do know that we were informed he was adding a hoodie to cover up some neck tells he was giving off. Coming from him specifically during break of first day final table when talking with him via txt.
This comment has no context, are you saying it as it was exposed and not hiding it or are you saying it as they’re guilty from the first hand, this is inoccuous comment with no defined context.
@@hoopslaa5235 It was on the rail ready to go from the very first hand of the final table.
@@depalma13 uh duh! No chit it was there, but your comment has no context! Are you saying it negatively or positively guy?
Dude where is the hair gel and tank tops !!???
I think something up with his health, seems like
Jordan Griff could become the best ambassador in poker history.
No
I was surprised they even let phones on the table, and allowing a lap top on the rails is ridiculous. Go back to no phones for players and no laptops or help from the audience
Thanks Doug and Jordan. Great discussion!
Winning by any means comes with a price, it's a debt paid over time. Having integrity and honor pays dividends for life.
Those guys will forever be looked down on and never trusted
He should honestly sue. Failure by the WSOP. It violates Nevada gaming law and WSOP policy.
The first rule of poker is…..
One player per hand.
How hard is that to understand
That was old school now it's all Mony and rules to break
Jordan may want to seek some legal advice to actually find out if any rules were violated. Running Sims near to the final table by your rail, the passing of the ear bud, etc.
Of course some ethical issues might also come into play here.
Definitely changes need to take place here. Poker players always trying to get that edge or +ev. Congratulations on your finish Jordan.
He would definitely be smart to contact a lawyer, the EV on it is huge.
Lmao tourney over homie nothing can be done
I don’t know the guy but based on this interview he doesn’t seem like the type to sue anyone
@@stevesherm260I guess you are the expert homie on this subject matter.
@@TLJ13homie
When can we expect the Tamayo interview??
Tomorrow. Heh.
Who cares homie
@@stevesherm260 you wouldn’t want to hear what he has to say?
@@jimmyjimmyggfulyou need a whole interview just for him to say he didn’t do anything wrong?
@@waterboy417Quit tryna be different, ofc ppl would tune in to see what he says
Is it not way more than a scandal? Isn't device cheating in the casino a bunch of felonies? How is this guy not already in prison? Using a device during the hand, is much different than “studying”. Not like this is a basic strategy card in Blackjack for tourists.
lmao
It is basically, realistically he should face some serious repercussions
Exactly... It is actually a fraud. Planned and done. To get 10 mln.
Well, I have a new favorite poker player for sure. Griff is seemingly a legitimately good dude. If he can somehow turn this into a poker career he's gonna go very far.
He won’t
Griff actually played amazing… had some really aggressive lines and looked like he knew what he was doing…his image also helped him and his lines appeared outside the box…i like his term of “street poker” ..he would have been a Chris moneymaker-type of ambassador as he was a recreational player like moneymaker was when he won…
Yup played great. We were watching a full-blown pro, regardless of the status they pegged him on before the tournament.
Technology has ruined the game in so many ways that it outweighs any of the good it has produced. What a different comradery and vibe the game used to have before cell phones. Fast forward to today with gto, solvers, charts, sims, etc. - It's killed a lot of what I used to love about the game.
I know this sounds crazy, but people used to socialize A LOT at the tables, cash OR tourney - I desperately miss that - and now, people all have earbuds, hoodies, shades, and the glow of a fkn cellphone on their faces.
For sure they have ruined poker...
Really a win - win for griff to pursue legal action , whose poker community behind you, a free roll for more money and a positive change for the poker community
Next year heads up is gonna be two laptops sitting across from each other making plays and the game lasts forever
If he had an earbud he probably got ranges as they were playing and that has to be against the rules. Anyway that can't be proven...
He needs to contact a good lawyer for some legal advice. He may have a claim for the $4 Million difference between 1st and 2nd place.
Great interview, I really wish Jordan could have been the face of the main event champion. Excited for tomorrow Doug, maybe Dnegs and Keating can put together a legal team and press the issue further. Win or lose it will be good for the game to stand up to this.
I had no idea who Jordan Griff was, I’m sure not many people would. But wow, am I impressed by how he is handling being mixed up in this massive controversy. As I didn’t buy the FT, the last I saw he had a 4:1 chip advantage. Then the images of the laptop screen started popping up. Well done to Griff and I’m sure this will not be his last successful endeavor, on the felt or off.
I have been saying most rules violations involve a player calling the floor. And had it been another pro heads up, they likely would have asked for a ruling at some point. I think my position, made in comments of other videos on the topic, could be a touch unfair. Either way, huge congrats to Griff. I loved the analysis regarding the overbet jam. We’ve all been there, thinking could I even get away if another scare card comes off? Hold the betting advantage and perhaps realize some fold equity in the process. The difference is, he was able to be that introspective in the midst of what was likely the biggest financial decision of his life. Super impressive, and well well done!
This guy is cool. Poker needs more dudes like this!! It’s a shame his 7s did not hold up as he played really well
Strip that kid of the title. Enough is enough. This game is being ruined. Just have computers play at this point.
Nah
@@nicekevin nah
Not doing a live stream and instead opting for a delayed release would solve a big portion of this. It's a shame that PokerGo now has the production rights rather than ESPN.
What is the delay from live to the stream.
Now Im curious about that airpod. His buddy had the stream up. So if it's mostly live he would have had what each hang was. I assumed it was the guys on the rail had the airpod in listening to the stream.
They had to feel they weren't cheating. How could you and be so blatenly obvious if you knew you were cheating
I was rooting for Griff, he seems chill af
The coolest WSOP main event final table scene ever: Stu Ungar with the round shades winning in 1997. The absolute lamest scene ever: The guy who won this year with his dork friend on his laptop.
What a man. So humble, enjoying his time. Staying positive and keep the smile up. Shoutout Jordan, you well deserved this prize!
What a classy guy, level headed n logical, no wonder he went this far
Respect for this guy. Didn’t try to take the win away from the winner. Instead clarified that ear piece was Joe’s and photo could be from a different day. He didn’t just grab the opportunity but is happy with his 2nd place win. WSOP needs to make decisions but this was a great interview.
What a bunch of BS!!! The laptop was bad but the earpiece was way over the top RTA! WSOP needs to address this immediately. Anything else is just an embarrassment!
thank you Cpt Obvious
@@slowery43 You’re welcome!
Pls interview tamayo about this issue just to hear his side also.😅
No publicity for the rat
He'll have to check his computer for the answers.
Good interview. Griff is a likeable guy.
Is he?
WSOP at one time was the greatest, what happened, who's running this.? They keep digging their own grave, and every time they dig it deeper....😢
Announcing the "no RTA rules" then not enforcing said rules is highly unprofessional & diminishes the WSOP brand for sure.
Using a computer to win doesn't make you a good poker player it'll make you money if that's your only goal then ok but don't consider yourself an elite player. Same as in the professional fishing tournaments they use 20,000 dollar live scopes to find fish and then target them. That approach wins money but doesn't make them good fisherman. Take away the electronics and see how they do.
Why would Tamayo blatantly break all these rules? Right out in the open. WOW..This guy deserves to get disqualified for the entire tournament. Take all his money. Shit like this makes me and a lot of others not want to play poker
Refreshing to see someone so chill and humble after winning 6M!
Why? 6 million is a LOT to you?
Nice attempted flex
Either this is a human endeavour or it isn’t. Players sit down and use their wits moment to moment. If it’s not that, then f@ck it.
I guess all the players can just write a program with an algorithm to send in to the tournament organizers that makes all the decision for them, and computers can run the the whole thing with all hands on TV screens.
The tournament could be finished in a few hours, and no one one would even have to be there. Checks in the mail to the winners. The end.
This right here 👆🏼
Nah
I think for a final table, if a team uses solvers it's a huge advantage to them. They can conceivably build profiles of every player on that table with how they bet, how they deviate from gto etc. They then can show the player playing who can adjust his plays to each person based on this. Then once it gets closer, they can focus on the one person your player will be up against.
What a well spoken nice guy!
If it didn't give an edge then they wouldn't do it. Having someone else use a solver for you should be treated exactly the same as using the solver yourself.
The tanking every choice from day 5 on destroyed watchability. Anything I did watch was at 1.5x speed. It was as slow as like 10 hands an hour.
It's why I can't hardly play poker anymore, infuriating
Thats why i dont play much live tournaments bc you get such low volume even if your edge is massive i could play 20+ tournaments online in the same amount of time
Great interview Doug! Jordan comes across as a great rounded individual. More power to him and I hope he enjoys fatherhood and gets his deserved bracelet, either by default or in future ventures, looking forward to the Dnegs/Keating interview
It's a terrible look for poker, but the fault is WSOPs. This should be clearly against the rules but isn't.
it is it just wasnt enforced smh
It is against the rules. TD failed.
It’s not that bad
Is
Move the featured and final tables out of the Thunder Dome and move it into a sequestered room and get rid of “rails”, like they do at the Lodge
Jack was too busy worrying about Will Kassoufs speech play.
Love it!!! Jack acting like he's Will's dad at every tourney
So after every chess move, i can run to consult Stockfish?? What a disgrace for poker!!
Congratulations Jordan Griff. 🎉🎉
Seems like a genuinely good dude. GG man
Problem with new players in cash is they start at $1-2. But here in the Dallas area $1-2 runs more like $2-5,5-10 at times and they get "shell shocked" no one folds for a raise, even a large one.
Was in Dallas last week for the first time. Played the wildest $1-2 I've ever played. When one guy jammed $300 into a $26 pot preflop and got called. I kindly said have a nice day and left.
@@depalma13huh? that's a great game to be in!
@@fkscopes Not for beginners.
@@dfwvtxman good for nit nut peddling but bad for practice yeah
Is that the problem
Best Doug-Quote in this video: "he decided to ..I'm gonna just go as far into the sand as I can" -😆😆😆 / And thank you for addressing PokerGo's scandalous paywall for the WSOP Main Event.
How can poker be considered a mind game if you can use solvers, even between hands? What a shame! If we simple open Equilab while PS client is running (not necessarily playing), we get a warning imediatly. That was terrible for poker!
Wonderful love this conversation, so many great points! We feel for Jordans situation, and Polk you set this up well and kept us entertained while addressing a serious topic! All the best to both of you!
Ken
Tamayo should answer this . We are players . We are demanding the answers
Demand what answers lol? God the entitlement is real. Nobody is denying what he did, what “answers” can he give to appease the mob of recs and casuals screaming for him to forfeit the win? The issue is if it broke the rules which is borderline at best since this is a relatively new issue and the WSOP didn’t have a clear rule on it.
@@Kanders190 They literally ruled that “No use of solvers are allowed at the table or in the tournament area, under threat of DQ”
Wtf are you talking about?
Lmao😅😅😅we r demanding, we r players😅😅😅
Good lord get over youself Princess this is not about you or your feigned being offended
@@slowery43 what is all about then , explain if you would . Looks like you advocating his actions
For the record: This is not a tournament poker thing. I am a half-time professional online poker player (and half-time supermarket worker) and I don't think that tournament players are as evil as Griff points them out to be.
With that being said: Tamayo and Nitsche should be punished, the rules should be enforced more strictly and I wish Griff would have won the HU once my favourite Niklas Astedt went out in third place.
That was a very good interview. All the best to both of you!
Wow Griff is pure class 🤙
Brilliant Interview. Massive respect for Griff.
Griff is my 2024 main event winner.
This confirms it to me, Tamayo is a fuckin cheat!! DQ him 100%