this video is Pre- Open source announcement for Deluge (Superbooth, mai 2023). so that's something to consider. all the complaints regarding the Deluge could be addressed at some point..
I somewhat agree, and the community firmware has made some really nice changes. You shouldn't buy something for features it might have down the line though. Though the Deluge is at this point an incredible instrument, that is both wonderful and unique. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Very true. Since basically all my actual music making involves the daw I’ve just found that’s the best place to spend most of my time. Different for everyone of course.
@@JamesonNathanJones If it works, there's no problem. Sometimes people just don't like to use DAWs because they spend all day at their computer. Programming in an IDE, or whatever. And the last thing they want to spend more time at is a computer with mouse and screen. I think that's one big part of the motivation for all the interest in standalone synths, samplers, sequencers and eurorack. I did like the Digitakt, but didn't feel like I absolutely needed it. Love the digitone, but it's a synth, and I'm sure I'd love the Op-Six equally. But I agree, I found the Octatrack just too cumbersome and wilfully non-intuitive. MPC is borderline. Was annoying to learn initially, in some ways, but at least it does become comfortable. Because it's more a bit awkward in some areas, with being really strong in others. Not obtuse like the Octatrack.
I’ve tried the Elektron and MPC environments and preferred MPC but found that both were so complex that I might as well just be using a DAW, so I’ve settled on Ableton as a primary sequencer/arranger/etc.
Never had a Deluge, so I'm taking your word for it, but I completely agree with your view on the Octatrack. It was the first ever Elektron device I had. Sure, after some struggling I could get it to perform some basic things, but I never committed to it as much as the wizards have. Went down the classic route: got frustrated, sold it. But I kept seeing these awesome Elektron jams people have been putting out, so I figured it must be me and the not the machines. So I bought the Model:Samples/Cycles and had lots of fun with them, but quickly noticed some severe shortcomings. So I went for the Digitakt and finally took off: I made music instead of reading manuals. That felt great and I wanted more, so I got the Digitone, the Analog Four and recently the Syntakt. The Elektron workflow has a few shortcomings of its own, but I've reached a point where I can comfortably operate all the Elektron boxes I own and get to some arguably pleasing results relatively quickly. Sure, I can get super nice tones out of various synths, but I'll end up not using them for music because recording them for a track in the pc is an absolute inspiration killer for me because I'll once again be troubleshooting instead of making music. Therefore I agree with your conclusion as well: you may not be the groovebox guy, but I very much am. I'd love to be a DAW guy too just like you, but so far it's simply been too frustrating because every single time I fire up the DAW I have to troubleshoot something. Every time! Life's too short and filled with time consuming and unfortunately often not so meaningful work anyway, so let's both just keep on making music for a while before we seek out new gear ;)
@@ledheavy26 I'd say about 4 out of 5 times. A controller may misbehave, a project may have missing files, a plugin may not work correctly, the sound card may freeze which means I need to close Ableton Live, restart the soundcard and then reopen the project etc. If I had a separate room or even a separate desk/pc combo where I could run nothing but the DAW and leave everything plugged in I might get substantially less issues. I was thinking about going fully into DAW music and sell most if not all the hardware I have, but every time (after a few weeks/months) when I'm willing to give the DAW a new chance I more or less immediately run into errors, which puts me off for another few weeks/months. Wish it were different. When I'll eventually move I'll reorganize my setup and try different DAWs too. I like Ableton Live, but so far neither it nor the NI or Arturia plugins/hardware have worked reliably.
But that really shouldn’t happen EVERY time you open your DAW, if you actually do use your DAW often… I can see maybe thinking that was common when you’re learning your daw, but those problems just won’t happen once you learn how to set things up correctly, or just begin to use it often in general. The digitakt is a great piece of gear to use with Ableton, because it’s quite literally just like plug in and play, and once you set up the overbridge plugin, you just plug it into your computer and open the vst and it works, and you can record all 8 audio tracks out into Ableton at once, and then you can also route the 8 other midi tracks into synths or whatever else in Ableton which is fun. but here’s some solutions if you’re still unsure: missing files won’t happen unless you’re constantly moving files around and deleting them (solution: organize a folder(s) with all of your music making stuff, like drum samples, set your synth or instrument presets to save there, I even set my VST folder to be in my ‘music production’ folder like this: ‘c/user/musicproduction/vst’, or something) VSTs not working- try to make another folder that’s not the one that Ableton defaults to, like I said up there, I set up my vst folder in my music production folder, and it works flawlessly every time. I suppose one problem that’s not exactly obvious at first could be that you’re installing the 32 bit or 64 bit version in your VST3 folder, or something (the current standard for VST on windows is VST3, prior to this, Ableton had designated folders for VST (VST2 I guess?), but it simply referred to them as 64 bit and 32 bit versions. Most companies still offer both 64 bit and VST3 folders and I usually just install both, because they’re almost always very small files and because I already have separate designated folders for both because I have a lot of older plugins that were either free or were just made before VST3 was a thing. But you’re going to want to use VST3 as it’ll work better in general, but I recommend that you just set up both folders and label them accordingly (I should say, I don’t have a 32 bit vst folder because Ableton stopped supporting 32 bit vet plugins around Ableton 10 or 9, which would be fine, but there’s at least one really great plugin that I wish I could still use, it was a tape emulation plugin). Controller and audio interface shouldn’t freeze unless you’re like unplugging them and plugging them back in while Ableton is running, if you plug in and turn on both before turning Ableton on it should basically work without even having to set them up, for me it’s at least always been plug in and play with midi controllers, for audio interfaces, sometimes I have to go to preferences and choose it from the audio devices drop down, but it’s always there and works without an issue every time. I guess I do remember having trouble getting my Audio interface working when I was just starting with Ableton years and years ago, but I also had a cheap, awful interface with an old version of FireWire, and I fixed it by downloading Asio4all, and just setting that up and then choosing ASIO as my driver then my interface as my audio device. If your controller won’t do certain things, sometimes Ableton will have 2 of the 3 options disabled on your midi device. One of them allows you to basically press play and to stop a track using your midi controllers play and stop buttons, but it always lets you at least send midi info like what notes you’re playing or whatever. Learning Ableton will take you so much further than that what you’re capable of with a groove box or any piece of hardware IMO, but I started with Ableton and then bought a model samples then a digitakt, and I love both, but they’re more like fun things to use to come up with little ideas here and there or to use in live shows, to play back both long, minutes long samples and to play back midi and sequenced drum samples or whatever. But yeah, I can’t recommend it enough; hence my too long reply about it )
@@callum6224 First off: thank you for that extensive reply! Secondly though: I ran into these issues and applied just the fixes you have mentioned. Those are things one learns throughout the years. Still, my issues persist. The latest one was with the Arturia Keystep 37: plugged it in (and turned it on), started Ableton. For no reason whatsoever Ableton's browser view on the top left would not open. I could click the dropdown button, nothing would happen. And I could not switch back and forth between arrangement and session view. It was completely bugged out. All my drivers were up to date, just like all the software. And no other program was running in the background and nothing else (like a controller) was plugged in. When I get things like these I'm not even attempting to troubleshoot them anymore because I know they are highly specific. If it were a general problem I could google it. But this? No chance. So what I end up doing on a good day is to reboot my computer and then try again. If it works I might give Ableton a shot until I run into the next problem. If not I call it a day, I neither have the time nor the nerves for this, I'd much rather make music. Yes, Overbridge is great :) The delay on the analog heat made it unusable for me (as a send effect via USB, not the unit itself with its analog inputs/outputs) and for some reason I'm getting loud white noise on the Syntakt, but usually audio and midi get sent over just fine and most importantly in time. Really like it so far. Agreed, a DAW is infinitely more powerful than a groovebox. And while I'm sometimes yearning for more effects than the simple delay and reverb (and chorus sometimes) of the Elektron boxes, I'm still inspired almost every time I switch on an Elektron box. And I honestly like the Elektron sequencer more than Ableton's sequencer. I know the keyboard shortcuts and I know the Max for Live sequencers, but the Elektron sequencer just seems much quicker. Granted, I would struggle hard with certain genres and sounds on the Elektron boxes. They have their soft and hard limits which I always quickly run into, but it's also a fun challenge to overcome them. I think I'll try to sequence some VSTs/samples via the Elektron sequencer, maybe that will work nicely. Perhaps to wrap it up: I'm willing to get into Ableton at some point, but as of right now I'm thankfully finding joy in using hardware and I actually manage to make a track every now and then, so I'll keep this status quo until I move and until I'm able to set up a proper DAW environment. Meaning a dedicated computer and permanently wired controllers/interfaces/etc so that at least a good chunk of these issues should never surface. Glad to hear you have come to like your Ableton Live setup after a couple of years of learning :) I'll get there eventually, but so far I'm content with what I have.
I tried the Push2 (Ableton) for a short while till I discovered I was being forced into boxes, either of time signatures I needed always to fight to get away from eighths and sixteenths, or of scales… It was fun for a while. But I sold it, without regrets. I also tried DAWs, but they were too much like my day-job: too “computer-y”, capturing midi, and then tweaking the piano-roll to correct my mistakes. (Didn’t enjoy that much because of the unlimited possibilities.) So now I am happier just playing the keyboards on the synths, and working with the limits of making whole music with just my fingers and only doing modulation that I can physically reach during live play. I think I now need to re-embrace the DAW, with more discipline, and clarity over the limitations I need to apply, to free me for a level of live improvisation over stuff that I could get the DAW to replicate for me, or assist me with. Ultimately the best machine I use to play with, is essentially just a metronome, to keep my pace up.
I do with daws what you do with grooveboxes: I download a trial version, quickly realize that I don’t like the endless complexity of it, don’t touch it for several weeks and then forget the basic things I could do in that daw and then return to my grooveboxes, which I use so regularly I can memorize the functions much better…..
Deluge is getting an lcd, AND you can retrofit your existing deluge by buying just the lcd. Pretty sure we'll be able to name individual sequences. PS. Deluge price is going up a la Rytm.
I tried MPC because of Octatracks learning curve, but after beeing frustrated enough, i am back on the Octatrack, you just have to put the effort in, its rewarding.
My odyssey of 15 years to find the right setup for me: started with a Roland MC 505, loved the workflow but bulky and too many limitations, then NI Maschine, went on to Ableton Push 2, didnt like the use of a DAW, decided to go DAWless, bought a Roland MC 909, resold it, got the new MC 707, classic early buyer, software was not ready and too limited, sold it, got a 1010music blackbox, liked it but for sampling only and finally got a Deluge 2 years ago: Gamechanger for me. DAWless, super easy MIDI controlling of my synths, 6h hours battery (love it for being outdoors), the internal synth and effects are bread and butter but it‘s surprising how good tracks sound that only used internal sounds. Super happy with my Deluge. I played an Octatrack for a few hours and was immediately put off by it‘s illogical workflow
I've watched tons of videos about octatrack, digitakt, deluge and all that modern DAWless stuff, but one thing still concerns me - why these mostly are tutorial and review videos, and no real performances at all? The only groove box that has more performances than reviews is electribe esx.
MPC all day every day for excellent performance pads, easy workflow sampling, sequencing, midi and cv control. 7 inch touch screen on the newer models can't be beat.
yep, there's a reason that even some of the old heads when ask the question what is the best mpc all around, most of them pick one of the modern ones, despite the fact that the mpc60, 3000 and 2000xl have a special place in their hearts. It's not perfect and there are some nasty bugs but all in all, yeah...
I feel Elektron Boxes are really good for certain genres. Techno and house specifically. It's good for that type of sequencing. I know it can do many others like electro, idm, and ambient and some forms of dnb. But I guess it depends on the type of music you make and also if you perform live or not. I think the their boxes are really good for live performances. I think they took inspiration from roland's sp404 system. Because they basically are ableton in a box. Something you can create an album and perform on.
I'm constantly amazed at all the super powers I'm discovering with Octatrack -- simple things that are easy to overlook but that are game changers once you figure them out. For example, I just learned about paste modes. With paste mode set to mix or mix + attenuate, you can copy a sound from another track and paste it in a sample you're working on in any other track and it'll blend it with the sample. Great way to quickly create layered hits without having to resample multiple tracks together. Just copy. paste, bada bing, bada boom! ...
A friend of mine is like that. He's buying, selling, and re-buying gear all the time. I, on the other hand, purchase gear occasionally, and then cling to it as if it were the One Ring.
I use the Octatrack as my main mixer, which means it’s always out, on my desk and hooked up ready to go. That’s largely how I got ‘okay’ with it - regardless of my other gear, it’s the one constant.
That's exactly what I've done. I also had the issue of having to relearn it every time I used it after a break, but now I route everything through my mixer into Octatrack as a final step, and it gets used all the time now.
@06:38 Definitively! It is good to hear that... I also really wanted to like the groove boxes..... maybe not for me 😢 . What I did is to have many MIDI controllers that I use along with Cubase and have a very cool experience creating, almost DAW-less because I don't need to dive into the DAW, almost all parameteres I need, I can controll with physical knobs and keys without even having to look at the DAW.... Cubase is the best one to do that; you take almost any midi controller and in minutes you make it work exactly as you want, forget Mackie controller templetes.... this is ad hoc and super easy.
I share so many of your views on the OctaTrack: suffering daily to get my head around the clumsy sampling features, routing, tracks and such, I eventually spent time on the web finding solutions, rather than making music. And about GRAS, yes, it happens, but why feel bad about it? I may have a more severe form of GRAS: whenever I have gear that I "really" dig, well, I buy a second one. But I never re-bought gear that I previously sold.
Me too! I have a Circuit Tracks and after more than a year, it does not click with me. I am a DAW guy. I have used traditional sequencers…to stream notes into my DAW.
Makes me want to open Pigments in my DAW. I agree, I agree. I bought the ELEKTRON 4 Voice synth...whatever it WAS. A few weeks later, I sold the wretched machine and bought a MODAL 002 (8 voice analog poly. WOW! That felt good!! just remember: Even if you can't be a Groovebox Guy, you can still be Groovy.
I run my synths and parellel guitar pedal chains into a Headrush Looperboard that doubles as a 4 stereo channel mixer...then into an Akai Force connected to Abelton... Works like a charm for everything...
I do a similar thing, with a Boss Loopstation, my three main synths have their own sequencers which are chained and the three tracks on the Looper force you to commit.
Just stumbled on this video dude, we are so similar haha. I've bought the Deluge and Digitakt and Digitone only to realize I just don't really love grooveboxes over and over again. The freedom and fluidity of a daw is just too great. I will say though I've been loving the Polyend Play (just did a video) because of how utterly wild and random it gets; I think you'd have a ton of fun with that!
The current only groove box that I think would capture my fancy is the Polyend Play due to its probablistic features and the ease of having varied length and speed tracks. Obviously, it is massively lacking in the sampling side of things, but I honestly don't mind the idea of just loading it with a curated set of sounds that interest me and going from there. As someone who also thinks less in loops, it seems free form enough to fit what I want from a groove box well.
Spot on, Mr. Jones. There is no best way except the way that works best for you. And whether that's DAWless or inside the box makes no difference. Personally, I've never used one of these groovebox/sampler/sequencer machines - and even when I watch reviews/tutorials of these things (and I've watched loads) I still never feel the need to try one out. I'm so comfortable with my current workflow (Studio One) that I don't see any reason to "fix" what ain't broken! But anyone who feels that DAWless is best for them, I applaud you.
Did you replace them with a different sampler? I had the MPC One. I own the MPC Live II. I hate them both! My favorite sampler is the Circuit Rhythm but it has to many limitations. I like the immediate controls of the Circuit Rhythm and I find I gravitate towards instruments with less menu diving. Any suggestions for a sampler with immediate controls and some cool features?
Yep.. I sympathise with you mate... just sold the octatrack... had to record off a load of sound from projects before letting it go.... found quite a few nice things i should have worked harder at and developed..... but the thing is in a box on its way to new owner... and already i fear suffering GRAS! 🙁
Thanks for the video. I hadn't owned neither of them by I feel like more likely I would bought octatrack than deluge. From what I saw on RUclips people with octatrack making music I like more. I like how @OoraMusic working with that machine.
Great reviews! I have decided to avoid these seq/sample boxes in general for exactly the reasons you pointed out… Attempting to wrap my head around these is daunting. I made an attempt at the octatrack and decided that “Control-Alt Shift” removed all creative inspiration from my mind… Sticking with my feeble workstation hardware sequencer or Pro Tools.
Isla S2400 changed my game. The Mpc I use with hardware synths for more future/bass music these days, or to run with the AkaiS900 for that MPC60-ish sound. I dig the S2400 on its own all day though. Shits fly asf. I'm a sampler nut though...
I had the exact same thing with thé Octatrack and two week gaps that made me forget how the routing needs to be set up. I did write it down at some point which helped a bit. Then I just bought the EZbot template and use it like that. This also gives alle the other cool effects.
Great video. I still love my Octatrack. One thing I would say about Grooveboxes is you are not stuck with 16-32-64 step patterns. I think making grooves that don't use those conventional times are quite interesting and opens up your mind a bit. But just a thought....Kind regards
Intersting video with good points to ponder. I think the most interesting point is the last one - I think I'm in a similar place where the kind of musical structures that the Deluge thrives in are not the kind of music I make. I also find the DAW much more free and easy to work with. I can quickly make a track on the Deluge but it always goes towards a similar conventional musical structure. And I don't have the kind of happy accidents that surprise me that I have in the DAW.
editing is hilarious on this one. Not really interested in either box but I liked learning the differences. I like the screen on the elektron boxes 1000x more than boxes without screens - trying to figure out what you did on a project two weeks ago on even something as simple as a circuit is painful.
I've mostly used DAWs and string and keyboard instruments (with a drum machine) over the years, but recently got a couple of samplers to challenge myself with something new. My technique with a new bit of gear is to try and write and record a song on it straight away... that way I have to learn some basics to get from idea to end product, plus it gives me a feel for how I like the piece of gear. At the very least it stops my hands automatically going to the same old positions on guitar/bass/keyboard. Then I mess about... if its a bass driven, would it be a better piano piece? Is there a part that might loop well or resample for something entirely new and so on... All the gear does really is facilitate me ripping songs apart and Frankensteining them in ways I may not otherwise think of.
Since the Deluge's firmware is open source it just keeps getting better and better! But you have to take for what it is: a groovebox. Jamming with a groovebox and producing music on a DAW are simply two very different things.
Open source is good and bad. Good if you want to tweak something and can code. But if you leave it to the community end up with a device with way too much clutter because people add loads of features and the UI is largely fixed.
I was trying to make the connection, but couldn't. Same voice inflection and demeanor. You hit the nail on the head. If only he enjoyed Angelina Jolie as well. Really enjoy both or your channels so keep the videos coming please.
This was a good honest talk about these devices, thanks for sharing! There are no rules what comes to making music and people are different, some device works for you and it might not work for some other person, that's just how it is. People need to find out what works for them.
Man that old octatrack looks sweet! I didn't even know anything like that existed 10 years ago or I would have been pining for it haha. I spend most of my time in my DAW too, but when I have time to step away from it and do something just for fun, it's straight to groovebox, guitar, or keys 🎶
I'm a pretty big Deluge user, and most of my channel is based around it. That said, I do have my own grips with it, and lately I've been working on a template for Ableton that basically turns it into the Deluge on startup. Because until the Deluge support easy stem exporting or audio over USB, it mostly stays in the box (which is frustrating). Still, I'd LOVE to get my hands on an Octatrack some day. It looks like a lot of fun!
I had a lot of fun with the Deluge. But it was the same for me - just a couple features that would frustrate me. I’m just realizing that I forgot to mention how nice it was to have an extra set of outputs on the OT. Unfortunately that’s not something Synthstrom can change in a firmware update. :/ It’s still a very fun box though.
@@JamesonNathanJones Yeah I have to agree, a couple of extra ports would make it so much more usable. Hopefully a Deluge 2.0 is released some day, but I doubt it will be anytime soon. Still, it's a lot more capable than other grooveboxes, so it has that going for it I guess!
I have both of them; not sure we need to compare them, for me they fit into different situations: usually using the deluge to sketch ideas quickly or just grabbing it to glue various gear i threw earlier on the table for jamming (yeah, cv connectivity is a killing feature). OT gives you amazing random happy accidents but requires more time to set up unless you are a wizard like Ezbot..
Not sure we NEED to do anything really 😂 They do cover some common ground, but yes of course they’re quite different as well. Wouldn’t be much point if they were the same.
The Deluge is the last piece of gear I would ever sell. Its the perfect desert island device. I wish the pad labels were backlit and the UX was less cluttered but its an incredible instrument. I too have GRAS and have bought and sold most of my gear 3x times but the Deluge has been a constant through all of that.
@@escarabajo_o gear re-acquisition syndrome. You sell gear because you have too much of it but then regret selling it so buy it again; rinse and repeat.
Enjoying this video so far! I really want to hear more about any tool in terms of whether or not it was worthwhile or useful as a sketcher, or a song, developer, or a polished production tool. That is in music composers’ terms of real outcomes, and worthwhile use. BTW, I’m also enjoying your composition course. Have you tried the Oxi one?
I suffer from the same syndrome lol. I have bought and sold at least 50k worth of gear over the past 5 years. And some items I’ve bought 3 times only to turn around and sell it again. I’m currently on my 2nd Deluge. That’s all I have now other than Ableton and my many plug-ins I’ve bought.
I'm the same. DAW over grooveboxes. All my best music, and 90% of the stuff I've made for TV, websites etc was written in the box with a few external synths.
To be honest I feel exactly the same after buying both polyend devices tracker and play. They have great functionalities but learning on those really kill my workflow.... Best to do is getting instrument instead....
I'm in the same boat. I tried the tracker when I started getting into hardware synths and it was collecting dust. A DAW is more flexible for me, but that's only me. People shall use whatever the hell they want. Just using it because "ew computers DAWless 4evar" is a bit of a silly argument / trend. I can see the draw but I have yet to encounter someone that's going beyond "just because" for doing that. More power to them. All is good, just make noises and be happy. Excellent video and I think it is helpful for a lot of people
Daws can suck you in too and take all the inspirarion away. If you want to create just play more and button less, it is possible to do that with Daws but i find that a multitrack recorder does it quite well and tracks can be exported to a daw and finessed to your liking.
@@trouaconti7812 sure, it's a workflow thing. But it ends up on a DAW eventually for editing and refinement / mixing. My gripe is more with the bunch that pump out a stereo file from their mixer just because a computer is not allowed in any part of producing music and telling me I'm doing it wrong because there's just one true way. I just don't get it, but that's my problem not theirs ;D In the end everything goes, everyone can do what they want.
First, I loved the soundtrack in this video! Do you produce similar music? I should definitely listen to it, that's right up alley! Anyway, I too find grooveboxes to be quite curious beasts - on the one hand, they really look attractive and inspiring and some of them have nice crisp monochrome OLED screens and clicky buttons (yum), and I would really love to come home from work, power up an OT or a DT, put on my headphones and click and twist away my evening - but on the other hand, as I begin researching (i.e. binge watching YT videos), I quickly realise they all seem really hard to do any sound design on and to really mangle and destroy samples - the process I like the most in my music making.
I really like the Squarp Hermod aside from its tiny screen and menu diving. The Hapax seems to be an improvement in those areas, though I’ve never used one.
Hilarious! And great breakdown of how you see these machines as well. I have to admit, when I saw the Deluge today, I was like WHAAA...what is that thing?? I want one, right now. HA> This, just after recently acquiring an Analog Four and a Drum Brute Impact! In my mind I thought, "that thing looks like it can do what both of these machines try to do together! Brilliant!" Which is probably is. But I'm also glad I watched your video because it reminded me that the newest(to you) brightest looking piece of gear is STILL just another piece of gear and another learning curve and SOME limitation of some sort, you will find out eventually. SO, yeah, thanks for that and also making me laugh.
I have wanted an Octatrack for years but never had the kind of money to justify being acquitted to a mental home. Yet, it still calls to me as if it is destined to be in my life. Could it be the one? is the Octatrack the one piece of gear I will never feel I need to sell for something else?
The _GRAS_ 🤣 I never had an Elektron device but after trying a bunch of other grooveboxes I can say my best friend is the Deluge. This said, composing music on a grid based instrument always make me feel I’m making “music by number” which horrifies me. The ultimate trick I found is to pair it to a ambient dedicated modular synth.
@@JamesonNathanJones same here - only groove box that's of interest to me because it looks to be less rigidly grid-oriented than other ones. I also love the probablistic things it can do.
Great vid ! im always trying to relearn the deluge if i let it sit a while , my memory is crap so id probably be really frustrated with an octatrak but it least it has a readable screen , i hate the deluge screen file diving setup. my deluge actually freezes up quite often even with only a couple tracks and when i tried to post that on their forum Rohan wouldn’t post it as he seems to be doing some weird screening of user posts lately , so that kinda irks me bit and makes me strongly consider just selling it. synthstrom customer service is really good other than the sudden not allowing of legit non offensive forum posts , which is a little too controlling and weird for my liking. i always loved the octatrack vids but doubt i can afford one , or have the patience to learn , so i guess ill just stick with daws. i guess it is personal taste really.
It would be nice if you also start talking about the audio converters in these machines, most of the stuff in the 80s,90s and 2000s had pretty decent converters, today there are so many manufacturers of different products that I believe the quality is not the same, it is not bad, it is just too polished, when you start using multiple sounds from any of these units the sound suffers. There are very a few sampler workstations that really have the power and the punch of Emu,Akai, Roland, Ensoniq from back in the day. These newer units try to do too much at once, it should be easy to bring DAW technology into hardware but no one can really do it, as of now.
Gear re-acquistion syndrome... LOL!! There's just not one machine yet that does it all and well. That really is the problem... no one has addressed that there needs to be a single machine that does everything. Deluge is about to be open source so it could well be better because the community will be involved in building it. Hardware is the only limitation unless they decide it's time for a refresh then develop a new one. How long will they develop on the first unit? Will it split into another group for the new build?
Haven’t tried the Blackbox but did have the eurorack module (Bitbox) for awhile. Mine was a bit buggy, but it was early on though and I think they’ve improved it since.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that suffers from GRAS. I just bought another Deluge and Syntakt after owning them before. Now I want to sell them again. Such a struggle
That’s tuff… How are you making music then ? I ve been owning recently an analog four, digitone, deluge, mpc one. The deluge is the one that gave me much pleasure but was never tight synced to my tr8s and was unable to be played in outdoor venues with day light. Swing is also (as in most of actuals sequencers) a shame. You could try to grab yourself a guitar. Even if I suffer from not accomplishing tracks as I use to, and hope I’ll get back there at some point, that’s where I get the best pleasure and musical moments since a while. Still having great times with my beloved tr8s. Cheers
@@tonteconcept2044 I used to play guitar back in the 90s and picked it back up again awhile back, but now I use Ableton and the several plugins that I’ve acquired over the years. I do love the Syntakt so I am back to jamming on that machine more. Once I can sit again (had surgery) I’ll be able to work with the Syntakt and Deluge together to see if I like that combo. I’ve owned the TR8S multiple times and it is fun, but I just found myself going back to my laptop and Elektron boxes. The MC707 was a fun box to own as well. I hope you find all joy you can out there in the music world! Gea
I’ve had two deluges and an Octatrack. Sold both of my deluges for many reasons but ultimately I just didn’t find it “special.” It doesn’t have the X factor that the Octatrack or other devices have. The quality of effects and the engines are pretty bad imo and it lacks any character. It does a lot but it doesn’t do all those things well. A by definition jack of all trades.
I sold the deluge for the same reasons. If you want one piece of hardware to do everything it's a great groove box. My separate pieces of hardware does a much better job.
Deluge sound is superior to the old Octatrack 44.1 CD sound @ any day... it's obvious. ...unless you like that CD sound and not hi-quality polished audio..., that being said : Octatrack has its signature sound while Deluge is more like: it sounds as good as your samples are and how your ears operate.
@@odalv7278 the deluges output is 44.1 as well and 44.1 is still the standard for music… Regardless, spec sheets don’t matter when the reverb algorithm isn’t good, the delay and reverb hardly have any parameters, the distortion and sample/ bit crushers sound mediocre. Chorus, Flanger, and Phaser are also in mono as well as the unison. If I wanted pristine audio quality I’d just use my computer to record. Other wise samplers like the SP-1200 sound a lot better than the deluge despite what a spec sheet might indicate.
#Elektron #a4mk2 I've got my A4 MK2 just to be able to sketch my ideas while obtaining a great sound. Not every place here os safe to leave a PC block or a heavy laptop + some monitor. One complaint... (not one, ok) it's not liteweight and it has some stupid limitations which aren't based on it's hardware limits. Seems just like a "great" marketing idea which ruins Elektron's reputation in eyes of customers. Other than that it's a great thing and i hope to play on some gigs using it!
The octatrack doesn’t even have a fretboard style isomorphic keyboard, sure you can use the standard piano style keys (yuck), but that’s only one octave. Just for that the deluge is miles ahead
very well done and entertaining.............nicely put together....................I've been addicted to my Deluge for quite a few years now.......totally agree with a lot of your observations.......So many annoying things about the Deluge (far beyond what you've mentioned), yet I've found it's perfect for my 'ambient' workflow........(still use other gear for other things)......................feel free to stop by my channel.........................Can't wait to check out more of your, well produced content.....
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this video is Pre- Open source announcement for Deluge (Superbooth, mai 2023). so that's something to consider. all the complaints regarding the Deluge could be addressed at some point..
I somewhat agree, and the community firmware has made some really nice changes. You shouldn't buy something for features it might have down the line though.
Though the Deluge is at this point an incredible instrument, that is both wonderful and unique. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
My approach is pick one and get good at it. Then you'll start making music and stop re-learning new machines every time imo
Very true. Since basically all my actual music making involves the daw I’ve just found that’s the best place to spend most of my time. Different for everyone of course.
@@JamesonNathanJones yes ! Totally true. I'm not bashing other pieces of gear especially if you just wanna jam or even for inspiration!
@@JamesonNathanJones If it works, there's no problem. Sometimes people just don't like to use DAWs because they spend all day at their computer. Programming in an IDE, or whatever. And the last thing they want to spend more time at is a computer with mouse and screen. I think that's one big part of the motivation for all the interest in standalone synths, samplers, sequencers and eurorack. I did like the Digitakt, but didn't feel like I absolutely needed it. Love the digitone, but it's a synth, and I'm sure I'd love the Op-Six equally. But I agree, I found the Octatrack just too cumbersome and wilfully non-intuitive. MPC is borderline. Was annoying to learn initially, in some ways, but at least it does become comfortable. Because it's more a bit awkward in some areas, with being really strong in others. Not obtuse like the Octatrack.
I’ve tried the Elektron and MPC environments and preferred MPC but found that both were so complex that I might as well just be using a DAW, so I’ve settled on Ableton as a primary sequencer/arranger/etc.
Never had a Deluge, so I'm taking your word for it, but I completely agree with your view on the Octatrack. It was the first ever Elektron device I had. Sure, after some struggling I could get it to perform some basic things, but I never committed to it as much as the wizards have. Went down the classic route: got frustrated, sold it.
But I kept seeing these awesome Elektron jams people have been putting out, so I figured it must be me and the not the machines. So I bought the Model:Samples/Cycles and had lots of fun with them, but quickly noticed some severe shortcomings.
So I went for the Digitakt and finally took off: I made music instead of reading manuals. That felt great and I wanted more, so I got the Digitone, the Analog Four and recently the Syntakt. The Elektron workflow has a few shortcomings of its own, but I've reached a point where I can comfortably operate all the Elektron boxes I own and get to some arguably pleasing results relatively quickly.
Sure, I can get super nice tones out of various synths, but I'll end up not using them for music because recording them for a track in the pc is an absolute inspiration killer for me because I'll once again be troubleshooting instead of making music.
Therefore I agree with your conclusion as well: you may not be the groovebox guy, but I very much am. I'd love to be a DAW guy too just like you, but so far it's simply been too frustrating because every single time I fire up the DAW I have to troubleshoot something. Every time! Life's too short and filled with time consuming and unfortunately often not so meaningful work anyway, so let's both just keep on making music for a while before we seek out new gear ;)
Do you really have to troubleshoot something every time you open your daw?
@@ledheavy26 I'd say about 4 out of 5 times. A controller may misbehave, a project may have missing files, a plugin may not work correctly, the sound card may freeze which means I need to close Ableton Live, restart the soundcard and then reopen the project etc.
If I had a separate room or even a separate desk/pc combo where I could run nothing but the DAW and leave everything plugged in I might get substantially less issues.
I was thinking about going fully into DAW music and sell most if not all the hardware I have, but every time (after a few weeks/months) when I'm willing to give the DAW a new chance I more or less immediately run into errors, which puts me off for another few weeks/months. Wish it were different. When I'll eventually move I'll reorganize my setup and try different DAWs too. I like Ableton Live, but so far neither it nor the NI or Arturia plugins/hardware have worked reliably.
But that really shouldn’t happen EVERY time you open your DAW, if you actually do use your DAW often… I can see maybe thinking that was common when you’re learning your daw, but those problems just won’t happen once you learn how to set things up correctly, or just begin to use it often in general. The digitakt is a great piece of gear to use with Ableton, because it’s quite literally just like plug in and play, and once you set up the overbridge plugin, you just plug it into your computer and open the vst and it works, and you can record all 8 audio tracks out into Ableton at once, and then you can also route the 8 other midi tracks into synths or whatever else in Ableton which is fun. but here’s some solutions if you’re still unsure:
missing files won’t happen unless you’re constantly moving files around and deleting them (solution: organize a folder(s) with all of your music making stuff, like drum samples, set your synth or instrument presets to save there, I even set my VST folder to be in my ‘music production’ folder like this: ‘c/user/musicproduction/vst’, or something)
VSTs not working- try to make another folder that’s not the one that Ableton defaults to, like I said up there, I set up my vst folder in my music production folder, and it works flawlessly every time. I suppose one problem that’s not exactly obvious at first could be that you’re installing the 32 bit or 64 bit version in your VST3 folder, or something (the current standard for VST on windows is VST3, prior to this, Ableton had designated folders for VST (VST2 I guess?), but it simply referred to them as 64 bit and 32 bit versions. Most companies still offer both 64 bit and VST3 folders and I usually just install both, because they’re almost always very small files and because I already have separate designated folders for both because I have a lot of older plugins that were either free or were just made before VST3 was a thing. But you’re going to want to use VST3 as it’ll work better in general, but I recommend that you just set up both folders and label them accordingly (I should say, I don’t have a 32 bit vst folder because Ableton stopped supporting 32 bit vet plugins around Ableton 10 or 9, which would be fine, but there’s at least one really great plugin that I wish I could still use, it was a tape emulation plugin).
Controller and audio interface shouldn’t freeze unless you’re like unplugging them and plugging them back in while Ableton is running, if you plug in and turn on both before turning Ableton on it should basically work without even having to set them up, for me it’s at least always been plug in and play with midi controllers, for audio interfaces, sometimes I have to go to preferences and choose it from the audio devices drop down, but it’s always there and works without an issue every time. I guess I do remember having trouble getting my Audio interface working when I was just starting with Ableton years and years ago, but I also had a cheap, awful interface with an old version of FireWire, and I fixed it by downloading Asio4all, and just setting that up and then choosing ASIO as my driver then my interface as my audio device. If your controller won’t do certain things, sometimes Ableton will have 2 of the 3 options disabled on your midi device. One of them allows you to basically press play and to stop a track using your midi controllers play and stop buttons, but it always lets you at least send midi info like what notes you’re playing or whatever.
Learning Ableton will take you so much further than that what you’re capable of with a groove box or any piece of hardware IMO, but I started with Ableton and then bought a model samples then a digitakt, and I love both, but they’re more like fun things to use to come up with little ideas here and there or to use in live shows, to play back both long, minutes long samples and to play back midi and sequenced drum samples or whatever. But yeah, I can’t recommend it enough; hence my too long reply about it )
@@callum6224 First off: thank you for that extensive reply!
Secondly though: I ran into these issues and applied just the fixes you have mentioned. Those are things one learns throughout the years.
Still, my issues persist. The latest one was with the Arturia Keystep 37: plugged it in (and turned it on), started Ableton. For no reason whatsoever Ableton's browser view on the top left would not open. I could click the dropdown button, nothing would happen. And I could not switch back and forth between arrangement and session view. It was completely bugged out. All my drivers were up to date, just like all the software. And no other program was running in the background and nothing else (like a controller) was plugged in. When I get things like these I'm not even attempting to troubleshoot them anymore because I know they are highly specific. If it were a general problem I could google it. But this? No chance.
So what I end up doing on a good day is to reboot my computer and then try again. If it works I might give Ableton a shot until I run into the next problem. If not I call it a day, I neither have the time nor the nerves for this, I'd much rather make music.
Yes, Overbridge is great :) The delay on the analog heat made it unusable for me (as a send effect via USB, not the unit itself with its analog inputs/outputs) and for some reason I'm getting loud white noise on the Syntakt, but usually audio and midi get sent over just fine and most importantly in time. Really like it so far.
Agreed, a DAW is infinitely more powerful than a groovebox. And while I'm sometimes yearning for more effects than the simple delay and reverb (and chorus sometimes) of the Elektron boxes, I'm still inspired almost every time I switch on an Elektron box. And I honestly like the Elektron sequencer more than Ableton's sequencer. I know the keyboard shortcuts and I know the Max for Live sequencers, but the Elektron sequencer just seems much quicker. Granted, I would struggle hard with certain genres and sounds on the Elektron boxes. They have their soft and hard limits which I always quickly run into, but it's also a fun challenge to overcome them.
I think I'll try to sequence some VSTs/samples via the Elektron sequencer, maybe that will work nicely.
Perhaps to wrap it up: I'm willing to get into Ableton at some point, but as of right now I'm thankfully finding joy in using hardware and I actually manage to make a track every now and then, so I'll keep this status quo until I move and until I'm able to set up a proper DAW environment. Meaning a dedicated computer and permanently wired controllers/interfaces/etc so that at least a good chunk of these issues should never surface.
Glad to hear you have come to like your Ableton Live setup after a couple of years of learning :) I'll get there eventually, but so far I'm content with what I have.
Have you tried different daws ? Ableton isn't exactly user friendly.
I tried the Push2 (Ableton) for a short while till I discovered I was being forced into boxes, either of time signatures I needed always to fight to get away from eighths and sixteenths, or of scales… It was fun for a while. But I sold it, without regrets. I also tried DAWs, but they were too much like my day-job: too “computer-y”, capturing midi, and then tweaking the piano-roll to correct my mistakes. (Didn’t enjoy that much because of the unlimited possibilities.) So now I am happier just playing the keyboards on the synths, and working with the limits of making whole music with just my fingers and only doing modulation that I can physically reach during live play. I think I now need to re-embrace the DAW, with more discipline, and clarity over the limitations I need to apply, to free me for a level of live improvisation over stuff that I could get the DAW to replicate for me, or assist me with. Ultimately the best machine I use to play with, is essentially just a metronome, to keep my pace up.
I do with daws what you do with grooveboxes: I download a trial version, quickly realize that I don’t like the endless complexity of it, don’t touch it for several weeks and then forget the basic things I could do in that daw and then return to my grooveboxes, which I use so regularly I can memorize the functions much better…..
Deluge is getting an lcd, AND you can retrofit your existing deluge by buying just the lcd. Pretty sure we'll be able to name individual sequences. PS. Deluge price is going up a la Rytm.
I tried MPC because of Octatracks learning curve, but after beeing frustrated enough, i am back on the Octatrack, you just have to put the effort in, its rewarding.
My odyssey of 15 years to find the right setup for me: started with a Roland MC 505, loved the workflow but bulky and too many limitations, then NI Maschine, went on to Ableton Push 2, didnt like the use of a DAW, decided to go DAWless, bought a Roland MC 909, resold it, got the new MC 707, classic early buyer, software was not ready and too limited, sold it, got a 1010music blackbox, liked it but for sampling only and finally got a Deluge 2 years ago: Gamechanger for me. DAWless, super easy MIDI controlling of my synths, 6h hours battery (love it for being outdoors), the internal synth and effects are bread and butter but it‘s surprising how good tracks sound that only used internal sounds.
Super happy with my Deluge. I played an Octatrack for a few hours and was immediately put off by it‘s illogical workflow
What does your music sound like after goofing around with so many different tools?
I've watched tons of videos about octatrack, digitakt, deluge and all that modern DAWless stuff, but one thing still concerns me - why these mostly are tutorial and review videos, and no real performances at all? The only groove box that has more performances than reviews is electribe esx.
One big difference which makes me choose the Deluge is that it is open source. The community has made many features that we have asked for
This is a great selling point, and as a software developer, it makes me seriously consider it.
MPC all day every day for excellent performance pads, easy workflow sampling, sequencing, midi and cv control. 7 inch touch screen on the newer models can't be beat.
yep, there's a reason that even some of the old heads when ask the question what is the best mpc all around, most of them pick one of the modern ones, despite the fact that the mpc60, 3000 and 2000xl have a special place in their hearts. It's not perfect and there are some nasty bugs but all in all, yeah...
I feel Elektron Boxes are really good for certain genres. Techno and house specifically. It's good for that type of sequencing. I know it can do many others like electro, idm, and ambient and some forms of dnb. But I guess it depends on the type of music you make and also if you perform live or not. I think the their boxes are really good for live performances. I think they took inspiration from roland's sp404 system. Because they basically are ableton in a box. Something you can create an album and perform on.
I'm constantly amazed at all the super powers I'm discovering with Octatrack -- simple things that are easy to overlook but that are game changers once you figure them out. For example, I just learned about paste modes. With paste mode set to mix or mix + attenuate, you can copy a sound from another track and paste it in a sample you're working on in any other track and it'll blend it with the sample. Great way to quickly create layered hits without having to resample multiple tracks together. Just copy. paste, bada bing, bada boom! ...
A friend of mine is like that. He's buying, selling, and re-buying gear all the time. I, on the other hand, purchase gear occasionally, and then cling to it as if it were the One Ring.
I use the Octatrack as my main mixer, which means it’s always out, on my desk and hooked up ready to go. That’s largely how I got ‘okay’ with it - regardless of my other gear, it’s the one constant.
That's exactly what I've done. I also had the issue of having to relearn it every time I used it after a break, but now I route everything through my mixer into Octatrack as a final step, and it gets used all the time now.
@06:38 Definitively! It is good to hear that... I also really wanted to like the groove boxes..... maybe not for me 😢 . What I did is to have many MIDI controllers that I use along with Cubase and have a very cool experience creating, almost DAW-less because I don't need to dive into the DAW, almost all parameteres I need, I can controll with physical knobs and keys without even having to look at the DAW.... Cubase is the best one to do that; you take almost any midi controller and in minutes you make it work exactly as you want, forget Mackie controller templetes.... this is ad hoc and super easy.
this is some jack stratton level editing and i'm here for it
that spooky eerie jam under your voice during the cons was lowkey hilarious. made it feel like you are reviewing the gear in a horror movie
I share so many of your views on the OctaTrack: suffering daily to get my head around the clumsy sampling features, routing, tracks and such, I eventually spent time on the web finding solutions, rather than making music. And about GRAS, yes, it happens, but why feel bad about it? I may have a more severe form of GRAS: whenever I have gear that I "really" dig, well, I buy a second one. But I never re-bought gear that I previously sold.
Me too! I have a Circuit Tracks and after more than a year, it does not click with me. I am a DAW guy. I have used traditional sequencers…to stream notes into my DAW.
Makes me want to open Pigments in my DAW. I agree, I agree. I bought the ELEKTRON 4 Voice synth...whatever it WAS. A few weeks later, I sold the wretched machine and bought a MODAL 002 (8 voice analog poly. WOW! That felt good!! just remember: Even if you can't be a Groovebox Guy, you can still be Groovy.
I run my synths and parellel guitar pedal chains into a Headrush Looperboard that doubles as a 4 stereo channel mixer...then into an Akai Force connected to Abelton... Works like a charm for everything...
I do a similar thing, with a Boss Loopstation, my three main synths have their own sequencers which are chained and the three tracks on the Looper force you to commit.
Just stumbled on this video dude, we are so similar haha. I've bought the Deluge and Digitakt and Digitone only to realize I just don't really love grooveboxes over and over again. The freedom and fluidity of a daw is just too great. I will say though I've been loving the Polyend Play (just did a video) because of how utterly wild and random it gets; I think you'd have a ton of fun with that!
Haha I must admit I’ve been eyeing the Play since they announced it. 😅 I’ll be sure to check out your video on it!
The current only groove box that I think would capture my fancy is the Polyend Play due to its probablistic features and the ease of having varied length and speed tracks. Obviously, it is massively lacking in the sampling side of things, but I honestly don't mind the idea of just loading it with a curated set of sounds that interest me and going from there.
As someone who also thinks less in loops, it seems free form enough to fit what I want from a groove box well.
Spot on, Mr. Jones. There is no best way except the way that works best for you. And whether that's DAWless or inside the box makes no difference. Personally, I've never used one of these groovebox/sampler/sequencer machines - and even when I watch reviews/tutorials of these things (and I've watched loads) I still never feel the need to try one out. I'm so comfortable with my current workflow (Studio One) that I don't see any reason to "fix" what ain't broken! But anyone who feels that DAWless is best for them, I applaud you.
Did you replace them with a different sampler? I had the MPC One. I own the MPC Live II. I hate them both! My favorite sampler is the Circuit Rhythm but it has to many limitations. I like the immediate controls of the Circuit Rhythm and I find I gravitate towards instruments with less menu diving. Any suggestions for a sampler with immediate controls and some cool features?
It all makes perfect sense. I wonder if you'll be able to resist buying the Polyend Play or Polyend Play+ They sure look fun
Yep.. I sympathise with you mate... just sold the octatrack... had to record off a load of sound from projects before letting it go.... found quite a few nice things i should have worked harder at and developed..... but the thing is in a box on its way to new owner... and already i fear suffering GRAS! 🙁
Thanks for the video. I hadn't owned neither of them by I feel like more likely I would bought octatrack than deluge. From what I saw on RUclips people with octatrack making music I like more. I like how @OoraMusic working with that machine.
hilarious editing and relatable messages, thanks for creating this🤘good luck with your GRAS
Great reviews!
I have decided to avoid these seq/sample boxes in general for exactly the reasons you pointed out…
Attempting to wrap my head around these is daunting. I made an attempt at the octatrack and decided that “Control-Alt Shift” removed all creative inspiration from my mind… Sticking with my feeble workstation hardware sequencer or Pro Tools.
I’m just here for the comic relief and brilliant editing. 🙌🏻
Haha much appreciated my friend 🥹
Isla S2400 changed my game. The Mpc I use with hardware synths for more future/bass music these days, or to run with the AkaiS900 for that MPC60-ish sound. I dig the S2400 on its own all day though. Shits fly asf. I'm a sampler nut though...
I had the exact same thing with thé Octatrack and two week gaps that made me forget how the routing needs to be set up. I did write it down at some point which helped a bit.
Then I just bought the EZbot template and use it like that. This also gives alle the other cool effects.
I suffered from grass...now I smoke grass and suffer from ableton only
Great video. I still love my Octatrack. One thing I would say about Grooveboxes is you are not stuck with 16-32-64 step patterns. I think making grooves that don't use those conventional times are quite interesting and opens up your mind a bit. But just a thought....Kind regards
Intersting video with good points to ponder.
I think the most interesting point is the last one - I think I'm in a similar place where the kind of musical structures that the Deluge thrives in are not the kind of music I make. I also find the DAW much more free and easy to work with. I can quickly make a track on the Deluge but it always goes towards a similar conventional musical structure. And I don't have the kind of happy accidents that surprise me that I have in the DAW.
editing is hilarious on this one. Not really interested in either box but I liked learning the differences. I like the screen on the elektron boxes 1000x more than boxes without screens - trying to figure out what you did on a project two weeks ago on even something as simple as a circuit is painful.
I've mostly used DAWs and string and keyboard instruments (with a drum machine) over the years, but recently got a couple of samplers to challenge myself with something new. My technique with a new bit of gear is to try and write and record a song on it straight away... that way I have to learn some basics to get from idea to end product, plus it gives me a feel for how I like the piece of gear. At the very least it stops my hands automatically going to the same old positions on guitar/bass/keyboard. Then I mess about... if its a bass driven, would it be a better piano piece? Is there a part that might loop well or resample for something entirely new and so on... All the gear does really is facilitate me ripping songs apart and Frankensteining them in ways I may not otherwise think of.
Since the Deluge's firmware is open source it just keeps getting better and better! But you have to take for what it is: a groovebox. Jamming with a groovebox and producing music on a DAW are simply two very different things.
Open source is good and bad. Good if you want to tweak something and can code. But if you leave it to the community end up with a device with way too much clutter because people add loads of features and the UI is largely fixed.
octatrack ftw! it’s an entire universe.
That it is!
You are the Billy Bob Thornton of hardware, I dig it.
Haha I’ll take it. Mad respect to you my man. Learned a lot of what I forgot about the OT from you 😅
@@JamesonNathanJones Thanks 🙏 that video was great. Looking forward to more from you
I was trying to make the connection, but couldn't. Same voice inflection and demeanor. You hit the nail on the head. If only he enjoyed Angelina Jolie as well. Really enjoy both or your channels so keep the videos coming please.
This was a good honest talk about these devices, thanks for sharing! There are no rules what comes to making music and people are different, some device works for you and it might not work for some other person, that's just how it is. People need to find out what works for them.
Man that old octatrack looks sweet! I didn't even know anything like that existed 10 years ago or I would have been pining for it haha. I spend most of my time in my DAW too, but when I have time to step away from it and do something just for fun, it's straight to groovebox, guitar, or keys 🎶
I'm a pretty big Deluge user, and most of my channel is based around it. That said, I do have my own grips with it, and lately I've been working on a template for Ableton that basically turns it into the Deluge on startup. Because until the Deluge support easy stem exporting or audio over USB, it mostly stays in the box (which is frustrating). Still, I'd LOVE to get my hands on an Octatrack some day. It looks like a lot of fun!
I had a lot of fun with the Deluge. But it was the same for me - just a couple features that would frustrate me. I’m just realizing that I forgot to mention how nice it was to have an extra set of outputs on the OT. Unfortunately that’s not something Synthstrom can change in a firmware update. :/ It’s still a very fun box though.
@@JamesonNathanJones Yeah I have to agree, a couple of extra ports would make it so much more usable. Hopefully a Deluge 2.0 is released some day, but I doubt it will be anytime soon. Still, it's a lot more capable than other grooveboxes, so it has that going for it I guess!
I have both of them; not sure we need to compare them, for me they fit into different situations: usually using the deluge to sketch ideas quickly or just grabbing it to glue various gear i threw earlier on the table for jamming (yeah, cv connectivity is a killing feature). OT gives you amazing random happy accidents but requires more time to set up unless you are a wizard like Ezbot..
Not sure we NEED to do anything really 😂
They do cover some common ground, but yes of course they’re quite different as well. Wouldn’t be much point if they were the same.
The Deluge is the last piece of gear I would ever sell. Its the perfect desert island device. I wish the pad labels were backlit and the UX was less cluttered but its an incredible instrument. I too have GRAS and have bought and sold most of my gear 3x times but the Deluge has been a constant through all of that.
What does “R” stand for in GRAS? Is it one of the GAS types?
@@escarabajo_o gear re-acquisition syndrome. You sell gear because you have too much of it but then regret selling it so buy it again; rinse and repeat.
@@Geekraver Ah, didn't know the exact name of my condition. I had Octatrack three times. I had Machinedrum two times and thinking of buying it again.
Love your videos, you save me a tonne of money. 👍
Enjoying this video so far! I really want to hear more about any tool in terms of whether or not it was worthwhile or useful as a sketcher, or a song, developer, or a polished production tool. That is in music composers’ terms of real outcomes, and worthwhile use. BTW, I’m also enjoying your composition course.
Have you tried the Oxi one?
I came from akai s1000 and Ensoniq eps. To me octatrack became second nature. Yes there are quirks but once you know them you’re golden.
I suffer from the same syndrome lol. I have bought and sold at least 50k worth of gear over the past 5 years. And some items I’ve bought 3 times only to turn around and sell it again. I’m currently on my 2nd Deluge. That’s all I have now other than Ableton and my many plug-ins I’ve bought.
I'm the same. DAW over grooveboxes. All my best music, and 90% of the stuff I've made for TV, websites etc was written in the box with a few external synths.
Software is work, hardware is fun.
@@gctechs totally 100% disagree with that black and white opinion 👌
Maschine+ had all answers for me! It’s so good …… with my acute GRAS , it only took the second buy to keep it :)
Jameson I have Ableton 12 Max - I should be able to do anything that the Deluge or Qctatrack can do, correct?
To be honest I feel exactly the same after buying both polyend devices tracker and play.
They have great functionalities but learning on those really kill my workflow....
Best to do is getting instrument instead....
Have had the OT waiting to be used for over a year. The biggest thing I learned about selling gear is to not do it.
I just went multitrack recording route with a bunch of instruments, mike, and a midipal for casual arpeggios
All about finding what works best for you 👍
I'm in the same boat. I tried the tracker when I started getting into hardware synths and it was collecting dust. A DAW is more flexible for me, but that's only me. People shall use whatever the hell they want.
Just using it because "ew computers DAWless 4evar" is a bit of a silly argument / trend. I can see the draw but I have yet to encounter someone that's going beyond "just because" for doing that.
More power to them. All is good, just make noises and be happy.
Excellent video and I think it is helpful for a lot of people
Daws can suck you in too and take all the inspirarion away. If you want to create just play more and button less, it is possible to do that with Daws but i find that a multitrack recorder does it quite well and tracks can be exported to a daw and finessed to your liking.
@@trouaconti7812 sure, it's a workflow thing. But it ends up on a DAW eventually for editing and refinement / mixing. My gripe is more with the bunch that pump out a stereo file from their mixer just because a computer is not allowed in any part of producing music and telling me I'm doing it wrong because there's just one true way. I just don't get it, but that's my problem not theirs ;D
In the end everything goes, everyone can do what they want.
I'm still a multitrack nerd. Perfect fit for me, no shade to the work flow of others.
First, I loved the soundtrack in this video! Do you produce similar music? I should definitely listen to it, that's right up alley!
Anyway, I too find grooveboxes to be quite curious beasts - on the one hand, they really look attractive and inspiring and some of them have nice crisp monochrome OLED screens and clicky buttons (yum), and I would really love to come home from work, power up an OT or a DT, put on my headphones and click and twist away my evening - but on the other hand, as I begin researching (i.e. binge watching YT videos), I quickly realise they all seem really hard to do any sound design on and to really mangle and destroy samples - the process I like the most in my music making.
Very impressive vlog. Great work.
The third and fourth hands made me question the mushrooms I had on my pizza.
Good content. The video. Not the pizza.
Pizza is always good content 😁
Thanks for your overview
Squarp Hapex (as sequencer) with 1010 Music BlackBox (as sampler)
i thought the answer will be "i realized my phone can do a better job" :P
What about just a dedicated sequencer, like a Squarp Hapax? I'm considering a Deluge or a Hapax. However, Mr. Jones, your words way heavy on me.
I really like the Squarp Hermod aside from its tiny screen and menu diving. The Hapax seems to be an improvement in those areas, though I’ve never used one.
Hilarious! And great breakdown of how you see these machines as well. I have to admit, when I saw the Deluge today, I was like WHAAA...what is that thing?? I want one, right now. HA> This, just after recently acquiring an Analog Four and a Drum Brute Impact! In my mind I thought, "that thing looks like it can do what both of these machines try to do together! Brilliant!" Which is probably is. But I'm also glad I watched your video because it reminded me that the newest(to you) brightest looking piece of gear is STILL just another piece of gear and another learning curve and SOME limitation of some sort, you will find out eventually. SO, yeah, thanks for that and also making me laugh.
I have wanted an Octatrack for years but never had the kind of money to justify being acquitted to a mental home. Yet, it still calls to me as if it is destined to be in my life. Could it be the one? is the Octatrack the one piece of gear I will never feel I need to sell for something else?
The _GRAS_ 🤣
I never had an Elektron device but after trying a bunch of other grooveboxes I can say my best friend is the Deluge. This said, composing music on a grid based instrument always make me feel I’m making “music by number” which horrifies me. The ultimate trick I found is to pair it to a ambient dedicated modular synth.
Could you recommend an affordable ambient dedicated modular synth?
lmaooo love the edits. Octatrack for the win. and yes I have not bought it for the reasons you mentioned. just no time, and laziness
Try Drambo on the Ipad.
Wondering if you'd be happy with the Poleyd Play and/or the Tracker.
I’ve definitely had my eye on the Play since it came out 👀 Sounds great from what I’ve heard of it!
@@JamesonNathanJones same here - only groove box that's of interest to me because it looks to be less rigidly grid-oriented than other ones. I also love the probablistic things it can do.
Great vid ! im always trying to relearn the deluge if i let it sit a while , my memory is crap so id probably be really frustrated with an octatrak but it least it has a readable screen , i hate the deluge screen file diving setup. my deluge actually freezes up quite often even with only a couple tracks and when i tried to post that on their forum Rohan wouldn’t post it as he seems to be doing some weird screening of user posts lately , so that kinda irks me bit and makes me strongly consider just selling it. synthstrom customer service is really good other than the sudden not allowing of legit non offensive forum posts , which is a little too controlling and weird for my liking. i always loved the octatrack vids but doubt i can afford one , or have the patience to learn , so i guess ill just stick with daws. i guess it is personal taste really.
It would be nice if you also start talking about the audio converters in these machines, most of the stuff in the 80s,90s and 2000s had pretty decent converters, today there are so many manufacturers of different products that I believe the quality is not the same, it is not bad, it is just too polished, when you start using multiple sounds from any of these units the sound suffers. There are very a few sampler workstations that really have the power and the punch of Emu,Akai, Roland, Ensoniq from back in the day. These newer units try to do too much at once, it should be easy to bring DAW technology into hardware but no one can really do it, as of now.
i prefer daw too, even if i'm always tempted by groovrbox...
Sad you sold the octatrack because I’m sure you would have made some great videos
Great video!
Gear re-acquistion syndrome... LOL!! There's just not one machine yet that does it all and well. That really is the problem... no one has addressed that there needs to be a single machine that does everything. Deluge is about to be open source so it could well be better because the community will be involved in building it. Hardware is the only limitation unless they decide it's time for a refresh then develop a new one. How long will they develop on the first unit? Will it split into another group for the new build?
Ot has its flaws. But it is so so good.. keeps delivering.. took me many hours to learn tho
Have you tried the 1010music BlackBox, I swear by it as a sampler, maybe if you try that one you won't feel the urge to sell it
Haven’t tried the Blackbox but did have the eurorack module (Bitbox) for awhile. Mine was a bit buggy, but it was early on though and I think they’ve improved it since.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that suffers from GRAS. I just bought another Deluge and Syntakt after owning them before. Now I want to sell them again. Such a struggle
That’s tuff… How are you making music then ? I ve been owning recently an analog four, digitone, deluge, mpc one. The deluge is the one that gave me much pleasure but was never tight synced to my tr8s and was unable to be played in outdoor venues with day light. Swing is also (as in most of actuals sequencers) a shame.
You could try to grab yourself a guitar.
Even if I suffer from not accomplishing tracks as I use to, and hope I’ll get back there at some point, that’s where I get the best pleasure and musical moments since a while.
Still having great times with my beloved tr8s.
Cheers
@@tonteconcept2044 I used to play guitar back in the 90s and picked it back up again awhile back, but now I use Ableton and the several plugins that I’ve acquired over the years.
I do love the Syntakt so I am back to jamming on that machine more.
Once I can sit again (had surgery) I’ll be able to work with the Syntakt and Deluge together to see if I like that combo.
I’ve owned the TR8S multiple times and it is fun, but I just found myself going back to my laptop and Elektron boxes. The MC707 was a fun box to own as well.
I hope you find all joy you can out there in the music world!
Gea
@@JustinUrban1 I think Syntakt and Deluge might go along well. I hope Deluge will sync tight.
I wish you the best for your recovery. I send you energy from that part of the world. Thank you for your kind words, I am enjoying with music.
Suggestion: product purchase links....
I've had the octa 2 years. It still hasn't made it into any of my projects. Daws are too convenient and flexible. Thinking of selling the OT
😘 Danke mate
what do you think on the Hapax Squarp?
Seems really cool, but it’s purely a sequencer - no sampling capabilities.
Polyend Play is amazing
Oxi One seems more flexible for this purpose
I’ve had two deluges and an Octatrack. Sold both of my deluges for many reasons but ultimately I just didn’t find it “special.” It doesn’t have the X factor that the Octatrack or other devices have. The quality of effects and the engines are pretty bad imo and it lacks any character. It does a lot but it doesn’t do all those things well. A by definition jack of all trades.
I sold the deluge for the same reasons. If you want one piece of hardware to do everything it's a great groove box. My separate pieces of hardware does a much better job.
Deluge sound is superior to the old Octatrack 44.1 CD sound @ any day... it's obvious. ...unless you like that CD sound and not hi-quality polished audio..., that being said : Octatrack has its signature sound while Deluge is more like: it sounds as good as your samples are and how your ears operate.
@@odalv7278 the deluges output is 44.1 as well and 44.1 is still the standard for music…
Regardless, spec sheets don’t matter when the reverb algorithm isn’t good, the delay and reverb hardly have any parameters, the distortion and sample/ bit crushers sound mediocre. Chorus, Flanger, and Phaser are also in mono as well as the unison.
If I wanted pristine audio quality I’d just use my computer to record. Other wise samplers like the SP-1200 sound a lot better than the deluge despite what a spec sheet might indicate.
nobody talks about the maschine anymore
I would have just put them on the shelf.
lol why is the music for this video so ominous?
Reconozco que odio los efectos del octatrack, son muy anticuados sin embargo, es una máquina muy divertida e inspiracional. Gracias por el vídeo
do you use any other sampler now?
Subscribed.
What's with the horror movie music in the background? Lol
#Elektron #a4mk2
I've got my A4 MK2 just to be able to sketch my ideas while obtaining a great sound. Not every place here os safe to leave a PC block or a heavy laptop + some monitor.
One complaint... (not one, ok) it's not liteweight and it has some stupid limitations which aren't based on it's hardware limits. Seems just like a "great" marketing idea which ruins Elektron's reputation in eyes of customers.
Other than that it's a great thing and i hope to play on some gigs using it!
The octatrack doesn’t even have a fretboard style isomorphic keyboard, sure you can use the standard piano style keys (yuck), but that’s only one octave. Just for that the deluge is miles ahead
For good!
very well done and entertaining.............nicely put together....................I've been addicted to my Deluge for quite a few years now.......totally agree with a lot of your observations.......So many annoying things about the Deluge (far beyond what you've mentioned), yet I've found it's perfect for my 'ambient' workflow........(still use other gear for other things)......................feel free to stop by my channel.........................Can't wait to check out more of your, well produced content.....
Yeah. This dude played 1 note for 10 minutes, and I listened to all 10 minutes of it!
dRambo made me finally sell my OT, which I thought might never happen.
i like that crossfader, but the tedious way of everything on OT is pushing it out of my world too...