I’ve got a couple of things that I think you should add. The plane that is used to cut the exhaust inlet volute must also bisect the center line of the turbine wheel. The radius is also measured to the center point of that volute cross section which can change depending on the size of the volute.
this is exactly what I thought was the correct place to measure the A/R and I could not find this info ANYWHERE else online! They all state measurement is from the inlet of the turbine which seemed crazy to me because you could have a big taper at the inlet without changing the inside of the exhaust housing and "change the A/R" without changing the function of the turbo. Thank you for explaining this properly and letting me know I wasn't going insane xD
Interesting info! I also initially thought A/R was Air Ratio. Now I know it's Area / Radius. Also impressive info at the end for a good summary of your AR housings smaller advantage.
Thank you so much for not shying away from the nitty gritty!!! There are a TON of videos that give the most basic explanation of what AR is without telling us anything past "less back pressure" instead of how the flow changes or any other specifics. It's like people are afraid to to be informative/technical and it pisses me off! lol Thank goodness for HP academy, and you :P
I like the map width enhancing tongue featcher. Your ramp tongue makes this AR act like a larger AR by changing the tangent angle to the wheel. Nicely done.
Never a let down. You give all the information anyone could need or want even if they didn't realise it at the start. I think I need to get of the blower with Borg to find out the Area and Radius that make up their 70j88 0.92AR C-type turbine housing. Need to find out the change when 1 scroll is "blocked" for low rpm spool. already got mid and high rpm locked down just need to know what the AR would be to simulate its behaviour.
If is a symmetrical design, then its easy - divide the AR by two - if its asymmetrical, then it must be measured, which will require cutting the housing in half.....
@@TurboDirectSA I wasn't sure if it was as simple as AR/2. now I know. It's a symmetrical design C type housing. With the crude implementation of the matchbot, I can get 20psi between 2k-4krpm with a EFR7163 but replace the 63mm turbine with a 70mm. They share the same core so I'm thinking it should work. Just want to pick up sub 2k response without a VGT added too many moving parts. This is on a 4.2L diesel.
@@TurboDirectSA the 70 should work just as well for the range I'm looking. the 4.2L has enough torque under 2000rpm that it doesn't need the turbo like a >3L does and projected to have ~1.4bar by then without a QSV just using a duel scroll. It also allows me a boost range of 0.8-1.4 bar without too much loss either end. its not too big that it cant build boost by 2k and its not too small that it chokes from backpressure allowing efficient power without dumping too much heat into the charge air as well. If I try to run a 63mm 0.8AR (only duel scroll on B1 frame) then I would projected to be at -1 Delta pressure by 3k and -10 by 4K which it not an efficiency loss I like looking at also means more charge air heat, less power. Now all that being said, if I use a QSV on the 70mm it will pick up the sub 2k "lag" enough to where street driving and off-roading shouldn't feel like a slug (like a mazda 2.2L diesels from around 2015). If this all fails its not hard to swap the smaller core or even try the 64mm 0.92. Experimenting for the best package to my requirements is half the fun of what I want but a good starting point with the numbers. I'm not going to go stupid and drop a 9180 on it 🤣
I still recommend your videos all the time! Would love more tech chats. I also still want that one compressor vid your privated back. ;) What's the chance I could get a secret email link? Hahaha.
Unfortunately not the connection and internal structure is just not possible to combine this housing to the IS38 - I would never want to combine these anyway - there is no benefit at all --- for a reliable and powerful result - see here:- store.turbodirect.co.za/index.php/shop/turbochargers/is38-550t-forged-5569-detail and here:- store.turbodirect.co.za/index.php/shop/turbochargers/is38-450t-forged-5568-detail
@@TurboDirectSA awesome thank you for your feedback, reason I ask is because the tdo6sl2 inducer and is20 exhaust exducer are used in the vortex xl but thank you for affirming that before I used 55-60k on buying one .
@@BeAllEndAll-i3e carful of the journal bearing turbochargers using the same diameter shaft (compressor hole diameter) they WILL fail - like the TTE, and others check my other videos on the IS38 turbo failures -- its covered in there.
It's unfortunately not possible to answer this question, it depends on a myriad of things from the engine build, fuel, boost, tuning, hardware and the list goes on. Physical testing on one engine will never yield the same results on another ---
Great video, I was wondering if I could please get some advice on rear housing size for my application. I'm building a 2320cc inline six with twin turbo's on a custom manifold. I have decided on a set of Arashi Gtx2560r Gen1 but can't decide if a .57 or .64 rear housing would be better for good response without too much sacrificing top end. This is a street car primarily. Do you think a smaller .57 housing would be sufficient with good response in twin turbo arrangement or .64? The goal is 500rwhp & 550rwhp on on E85 and rpm limit is 8k. The other turbo option is twin G25-550 with .49 housing but i think its too big of a turbo ina twin application on 2.3ltr engine & too small exhaust housing, and I'll run into surge issues. Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks for the comment - please provide more info on the engine itself. What engine is this? Is it forged? What is the RPM band limit? has the compression ratio been altered? What fuel and boost do you intend running? I would not normally advise on cheap chinese knock off turbos, as they are usually junk - just for the record.
@@TurboDirectSA @TurboDirectSA @TurboDirectSA Thanks for getting back to me, I understand regarding knock of turbos but these have a proven record and are the only ones that offer a gtx2560r in a updated 11 wheel compressor and turbo wheel. A reputable company here in Melbourne Australia, recommend them and use their core. Engine is a Toyota 1ggte stroked out to 2320cc by HKS. It's all forged internals and has 81mm stroke and 78mm bore. Compression is 8:5:1 as factory with HKS metal 78mm headgasket. Fuel will be flex fuel with 98 octane for day to day and E85 for spirited driving. Boost will be around 2 bar. Heads have aftermarket springs with titanium retainers and a 256/264 camshaft combo. Usable RPM should be 4000 to 8000 maybe 8500. Let me know if you need anything else and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.
@@autoprofinish3453 Thanks for the info - let me ask you a question, why do you want two turbos at double the cost and hassle of installation? Is this a show and shine vehicle? If its practical, i would install a single turbo and be done with it - better response, and more outright mass flow (more HP) with less boost. You also have the benefit of a twin scroll turbine housing design.
@@TurboDirectSA it's a show car and the 1G has unique intercooler piping I'd like to retain for aesthetic reasons. They look terrible with a single conversion. If I wanted a single it would be easy, but it must be a twin turbo. I just want to know if. 57 housing would be giving up a lot of top end vs a. 64 and response loss. The turbos size I selected should be sufficient and similar setup are used in GTR 2.6ltr with .64 rear housing. Hence why i wondered if a .57 would yield better response in a 2.3ltr VS .64 without sacrificing too much up top as the engine will need to rev to produce power due to displacement.
@@autoprofinish3453 they are small turbos and there are two of them. The 57s will not create much back pressure on 3cylinders on that small size engine
Very useful video, Chris, thank you! I've never seen before that somebody open turbo housing for better explanation! But the main thing for me that is how to choose right A/R housing for my engine. Is it possible to calculate turbo spooling and power with specific turbo, specific A/R turbo housing and specific engine? Or this is only question of practice and expirience.
Hi buddy - thanks for the comments. It is possible to create a plot map on the compressor showing where the engine will operate with a specific choice of turbocharger and the differences when choosing a different turbine housing - sure.
Hello, I was unaware that turbo housings could be changed. I thought that whatever the measurements of a specific turbocharger were, it was more or less a fixed measurement. However if turbocharger housings could be changed. And response rate was more important to me with cheap amazon/ebay twin GT30 or GT35 turbos on a 5.3L LS what can be changed/modified on either the GT30 or GT35 turbochargers?
Turbine housings in specific family ranges are able to be changed - depending on the manufacturer. Garrett GT30 and GT35 housings are physically the same dimensions and interchangeable. Depending on your setup and turbo choice there could/could not be options.
It is important to a reliable and properly functioning setup. Using the incorrect housing AR for an intended purpose or application can shorten the life of the turbo and obviously affect the setup.
Awesome video, I’ve been hunting around for someone to explain where the measurements are taken. I think at 7:52 the radius (in the context of an AR ratio) is not the same because it is measured to the center of the volute.
Thanks Steve for your comment, the AR is larger between two housings which use the same turbine, because of the volute area being larger or smaller. measurement for the calculation of any turbine housing is taken from the same place no matter what housing you trying to calculate the AR of.
There is one thing I never hear anyone mention and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because I have it wrong, but a given A/R ratio on a small turbo would flow less air than the same A/R ratio on a larger turbo, correct? For instance, a .92 A/R on a g25-660 would flow much less than a .92 A/R on a G35-1050 ?
Hi, I’ve got a question for you I have a 21 Infiniti Q60, and I just want to know what brand or who makes the turbos for that car. Thank you for your time and also great great videos for a person that doesn’t know much about a turbo I’m learning a lot. Thank you.
Pardon me I'm watching you on TV and my telephone at the same time I'm talking about the Turbo direct that you're supposed to be coming up with or being able to sell last month or this month I want one of yours
Please do a video on compressor maps and how high altitude affects turbo choice. Also an explanation on how to use tools like garret boost advisor and BW matchbot.
Could too small an A/R cause boost spiking ? 2.5 MZR engine. Gtx3076r, .63 Turbine housing A/R, 38mm tial wastegate, 3 inch straight pipe from the turbo back. Too much pre turbine back pressure and the waste gate can’t keep up ? What would cause it to level out pretty fast and then hold gate pressure and never creep, only spike initially.
Hey Alex, send me more info on the engine used, boost level and compression ratio of the engine. Also what fuel you using? How are you controlling the gate?
Well done . 1data on how much better the exhaust flow is on Gxx-xxx Vs older. I've been reading on many sites the normal appropriate size exhaust housing is way too sloppy loose/ boggy because of the enhanced flow.Eg Mazda Miata installed a .92 because that's what his previous comparable needed to be happy had to change his housing do a .72 to get the quality of response 2 Could you try to give us a way to cross frame size(EG s257 t2 [#2 frame ] AR to s360sxe .70 t3 [#3 frame] With the reacent t2 #2 g25, efr b2,s200, or ,he221 ~200-700bhp chargers are pushing 2x the air of past designs of small t3(#3) hx35 ~160-400bhp , the need to convert from stock #3 system to a higher peak power, faster spooling, lighter mass #2 turbo. Who needs /wants a 900bhp lag master on a 2- 300bhp 800-1200tq making it produce 160bhp and 400tq ( essentially what Cummins did with the first generation Ram by putting a 21cm (cummins version of A/R:)on there 350bhp H1C . Just ordered a g25-550 .72 vband/vband. For my LOW RPM (2000 RPM hp peak) 5.9l diesel . The bosh VE 45 Injection is NOT capable of pushing more than 350-400hp of fuel (currently factory set 160hp, dynoed 173.8whp(~250hp crank) 491tq .) If I can get Will and Todd at Power Driven Diesel to schedule me another dyno session I'll find out what a hx35/10cm 52, 76 mm +QSV (=5cm) drive ratio is .7-1.5. S362sxe67/.80+QSV DR is ..5-1:1
1) The newer G series turbine housings are nothing like the older model families. these are all clean sheet designs, so nothing previously made in the GT or GTX series is a direct comparison. These are not T3 or T4 family housing designs. 2) Impossible to do without having the turbine housings physically in front of you, cross sectioning them and physically measuring the A (Area) value and then measuring the Diameter for the R value and then doing the maths. Each manufacturer uses their own testing on a gas burner and measures all the parameters, pressures, EGT's, Mach air speed, air flow through the turbine, RPM of the turbine etc in order to ensure firstly reliability (the turbine vibrations through blade excitation does not exceed the 4th order - resulting in blade burst, or breakage etc) and then doing the necessary changes to the volute size and designs to finalise the product for market release. HX35 housings are alot larger than you expect, you'll see when you play with them on an engine. Been there and got educated :-)
your videos are very informative, what would be the benefit of lets say for example, putting a bigger a/r turbine housing on a hybrid is38, would egts be less, would flow rates be better.
good info,so how A/R is affected when you change the turbine wheel to a larger one? does this increase o decrease that A/R number? does boring the housing afects the tongue too? thanks
Machining the profile larger in diameter for a larger wheel will not change the AR of the housing at all because the centre to centre distance between the Radius inside the housing volute has not changed in relation to the centre of the volute tract at the tongue. What you need to be careful of is not to machine away the tongue when opening up a housing internally, as this will totally change the housings characteristics.
Hi, That's excellent. Now that you've explained A/R can you do a video on choosing A/R? A video the same as the 4AGE video showing the effect of different turbos but instead showing the effect of different A/R would be great
(Editing the comment to be change its tone a little). I have a couple of questions: First, isn't the radius measured to the centroid of the area? Second, when reducing the area along the volute do you not use constant angular momentum? Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the comment Lucjan, yes you are 100% correct - the Radius is measured from the centre of the turbine exducer position to the centre of the volute shape, which is cut through the tongue (centre line of the housing) Reduction of the volute has everything to do with each housing design, how much it reduces, over distance, or circumference, or if it changes shape or not, is entirely up to the design of the housing. There are no "rules" per se. The housings we design are tried and tested before released into the market and we have our own set of guidelines and design parameters internal to our volute structures.
@@TurboDirectSA thanks for the reply. I once had to do a redesign of a volute for a micro turbo genset, and knew very little about them back then. I found that the original design was too tight about halfway its length. And cfd showed a very large velocity gradient at the tongue. So I redesigned it using the constant angular momentum approach, which helped to mitigate most of that gradient. I wondered what was your approach in optimizing the shape. I appreciate that this might be a trade secret, though. I re-read my comment. I didn't mean it in a hostile way, perhaps I was just a little too tired when typing it.
@@lucjannastalek9978 It is a secret to be honest, and the housing design works 100% together with the turbine ability to "use" the mach speed, volume and pressure of the energy at the tongue, aswell as the turbines ability to drive the compressor on the other side with the shaft power (shaft blade design comes into play) depending on the compressors design, mass etc. This is why we use CFD simulation to marry up all these components and find a result that we are happy with. Then its mapping the compressor to see if any of this affects the surge limit and what the resulting flow capabilities are overall. Its not easy at all, and we have made many mistakes, and continue to make mistakes, but we have resources available to us that povide answers and shed light on the subject, which we use to attempt to solve the issues/problems/challenges and re-run the tests and simulations before making moulds - even once we have made moulds, we find problems, and land up making new moulds with changes.... Its a very expensive exercise and frustrating to say the least, but with every challenge comes experience and we learning daily. We choose to share only some of the info with the channel viewers and are limited to what we willing to share for obvious reasons - the chinese are always watching, stealing and "borrowing" ideas, and designs..... I did not take offence at all buddy - dont stress, i appreciate your comments.
Do you have any information on the turbine housing "flow channel" to the turbine inducer? I see some turbine housing that are nice wide channels, and others that are pratically just slits. Not having much luck finding any technical information about this area.
Can you tall us something about whats the best and most efficient A/R? T3 housings can be 0.63 og 0.82. but how does a T4 A/R0.58 compare on the same turbo / turbinewheel? Does a T4 A/R0.58 flow better than a T3 A/R082? How about spool up it beeing bigger all around but having a smaller A/R? I have heard someting about the angle the exhaust gases hits the turbine wheel inducer. Thanks.
Hi Finn - thank yo for the comment - the T3 and T4 housing families are completely different in the size and AR volute dimensions. The turbine wheel that operates inside them is also different. The T4 housings will spool much later than the T3 housings (using the same size turbine shaft) due to the larger Volute dimensions (volume inside the T4 housing is alot larger) - this T4 housing has less back pressure as a result, and will flow more freely up top of the engines RPM and will make slightly more power - engine dependant. I might have some scrap T4 housings lying around, which i will cross section for you and make a video showing this to give you a better understanding of this.
No it is nothing the same at all, Garrett use one casting for both the 30 and 35 family - which has a great negative effect on spool for the 30 family housing as a result due to the distance between the tongue and inducer blades and a few oter reasons.
Are you referring to the Downpipes? If so yes, but not the shielding alone. We use it to shield the DP's they come cut in specific sizes already which are welded onto the pipes.
Are you referring to the Downpipes? If so yes, but not the shielding alone. We use it to shield the DP's they come cut in specific sizes already which are welded onto the pipes.
Great video, thank you. Recently i removed 0.61 turbine housing from new garrett G30, and i was very dissapointed considering pruchasing price, that there was huge gap(say over 5mm) between tongue and turbine wheel inducer diameter. Probably, garrett try to save a production cost, using castings designed for bigger turbine wheels also on smaller wheels. That must somehow effect function, isnt? How big/small gap is suggested there?
Thanks for the comment - this is why our housings are much better at controlling spool up time and back pressure. There are "tricks" that when paid some attention to, they will yield a favourable result. The larger the gap the less responsive the turbine stage - GENERALLY speaking. There are other aspects that also play a part in this aswell.
@@TurboDirectSA Do you think, its worth a risk, to add here material by tig welding (as housing is "stainless"..) and close the gap somehow, maybe resulting in similar scroll end shape as in your housings. Or weld going to separate later in future, and destroying the turbo? Its very unpleasant feeling using expensive shxxxt product, when trying to make a car better.
Love it I said 300, 400, 500, horsepower volkswagens and Audi's I want to 700, 750 horsepower 3.5 ecoboost With your Turbo direct design and technology
What's the difference between twin scroll and single scroll A/R let's say 0.85 twin scroll vs 0.81 single scroll, is the twins scroll actually a lot smaller or is it factored somehow into the calculation?
Great question - the size/AR/volume of the volute is always calculated in the same manner no matter which style/scroll design. So the AR81 single scroll is smaller physically than the twin scroll AR85. It doesnt matter what the design/scroll of the volute it, the AR relates to the AREA of the volute (at the tongue) divided by the Radius of the turbine blade -
@@Nadimarco90 Which turbo Nicholas? The AR63 usually fits the 30 and 35 family size rotating assemblies. What HP Target do you have in mind? What is the car used for? Track, drag, street, drift etc??
These are casting numbers, the refer to pattern numbers - i have had this question many times - its nothing to do with the housing or its volute size/specifications at all.
What about t3 vs t4 rears when they have the same a/r are they actually the same size? For eg t3 1.01 vs t4 1.01 is it just the flange that's different?
David, no they are different family housings, therefore different sizes internally - even with the same AR number/digit, the physical volume inside the housings are different. E.G T3 AR82 is a smaller housing physically internally (the volume of the volute inside the housings scroll) compared to a T4 AR58 - the digit/number does not relate to overall size when comparing housings from different families.
Thats a very good question, the answer is No not at all -- this is a misconception made very easily by identifying the housing by its AR NUMBER - this is not how its done. The AR64 T28/GT28 turbine housing volute is SMALLER than the T3 (large family turbocharger) AR48. The T3 AR82 turbine housing is smaller than the T4 AR58 housing. The NUMBER relates to the volute area in that family model range, and are not comparable to the other family housings. Ill go into more detail on this in a separate video for you -
@TurboDirect S.A 7:50 same wheel R = same 76mm turbine t2 vs 76mm turbine t3 is not the same 76mm Radius ? (I know this is not how it works) Therefore .75 on both would have the same crossection, or the wheel is not what R is refuring to. Is the arc to the Centerline of the cross-section measured area? ( Centerline of a teardrop is difficult to find[devided housing]) Thank you for putting up the knowledge for the world to learn and being patient enough to answer the world's questions. Dammit Dave Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality
@@daviddroescher even though the diameter of the turbine is the same in the two different housings, the AR will be totally different because the area in the volute (A = area) is larger. Changing any of the A or R values will change the resulting AR value. So in using two different housing "families" (larger A=area values) will result in larger turbine housing AR and lower backpressures and increased lag - provided the internal design, tongue etc are identical.
I have a k24 with a t3 manifold what do you think would be better .48.63 or .82 n what trim 50 54 57 or 60...it's a Garret turbo I just don't know what speciation would be best looking to make at least 800hp
Forget about making 800HP with a T3 AR48 turbine housing. It will be a long stretch to make 800HP with even running the AR63 turbine housing ---- you will need a turbo that is able to provide the high flow ability up top engine RPM - without falling off, or you will battle to make 800HP - the engines VE in this case is in the high engine RPM - so any turbo too small or with too much back pressure (small turbine housings) wont cut it. you will need to have something in the 1000HP capable range so that you don't screw the turbo to its max permanently while making that target HP. I would definitely consider the Airwerks range of turbos, for the best bag for the buck - these are the most bullet proof journal bearing options around currently. The EFR8474 Black Series will work very well on this setup aswell and will make the power with the best all round response for the street should it be used for this purpose. The smallest turbine housing AR on the 8474 is AR83 with T3 inlet flange face.
@@cinndyyramoutarr Ball Bearing is expensive, BUT has its advantages and they are great advantages (we'll get to the DIS-advantages last) Spool is improved, and so is thrust loading "consumption" Price and repairs -- always the biggest DIS-advantages - the Airweks journal bearing turbos are designed specifically for massive boost (just look at the P2C ratio on the compressor maps - MUCH higher than many ball bearing counterparts. In actual fact some of the JB units are able to withstand higher rotational speeds SIZE FOR SIZE -- especially the large frame turbos - more on this for another discussion.
I have a 1.9L 8v stroker engine and im currently contemplating building a sidewinder i have a Owens Development GT5471 turbo...what size tubes would you say my sidewinder be built from...im guessing equal length is best!?
The lower backpressure by changing the turbine housing AR, relates in higher HP numbers - how does this happen. Well the more flow through the turbine (less backpressure) allows the compressor to be driven faster (higher rotational rpm) - simple as that.
Hey I can not calculate the turbine housing. Somewhere there is an error. The body of the GT35 0.82 has a section of 11 cm2, while the radius from the turbine axis to the center of this area is approximately 5.4 cm. We get 11/5.4=2.01. The question is, how is AR = 0.82 calculated??? Thank you very much, your videos are very interesting and informative. Found a table that I don't understand... ((CM x 8) - 7) / 100 = a/r ratio 6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R 7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R 8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R 9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R 10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R 11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R 12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R 14 cm2 = 1.05 A/R 16 cm2 = 1.21 A/R 18 cm2 = 1.37 A/R 21 cm2 = 1.61 A/R I would be grateful for clarification if possible.
You will not be able to calculate anything without cutting open the housing and taking an actual measurement - im not sure where you got the figure from, but unless they are actual measurements taken off of a cast housing which is dissected across the tongue, you will be in the dark. Secondly how did you measure the volume of the shape in the Garrett housing? TIP - 3D scan the shape and convert this to a 2D drawing, and let the drawing package measure the volume for you. If you don't have a 3D scanner, use a material with a known density and cut it into a shape that ALMOST fits into the volute opening where you have cross sectioned the housing (it must not fit inside the hole, otherwise its too small) and then use a burette with a liquid to measure the volume of the part, and use that for the calculation.
@@TurboDirectSA Thank you very much for your answer. I tried to navigate visually, to the place where the tongue is located. I also looked at the data of the cases that are sold on ebay and AR and area are indicated there in cm2. I'm trying to model in the program and I get a visually smaller section with AR 0.82 than I see on the finished case. I take the distance from the axis of rotation of the shaft to the center of mass of the area. If everything is as you say, then I'm on the right track, thank you for shedding light on this area.
@@DenisDorokhin Pleasure - sorry pal, no measurement = incorrect calculation. Its that simple. Cut the housing and measure it. If you know its an AR82 why you measuring it?
@@TurboDirectSA Still, I have a problem... Take a GT35 with a diameter of 68mm, the radius is 3.4cm, let's simplify, and imagine a circular inlet with a radius of 1.3cm, then A/R = 3.14*1.3*1.3/(3.4+1.3) = 5.3/4.7 = 1.27! But before my eyes I keep the GT35 case with AR 0.82 and there is clearly more area and less AR. Tell me where am I wrong? 5.3cm2 is very little to enter the turbine, right? I try to design my body... a hobby. Thank you for your answers.
@@DenisDorokhin Cut the housing - not possible the way you doing it. imagining is not accurate. Cut the housing open and measure the volume. Without this you will never come right.
I'm looking and I looked for this 700 horse I asked 3800 excuse me IS38 700 All I see are 304 105 100 horse volkswagens an Audi's do you make these for a 3.5 Ford ecoboost Or something that schools and works like they do
@@johnhoward6551 Not bolt on for the Ecoboost motors no -- we dont even get these in S.A, so for me to design something, it would require a vehicle/engine to work on physically to work around the geography available under the hood.
Proudly south Africa I definitely going to buy a turbo from this company because the knock off turbos is really a waste of time the only problem is that most of people don't know this company.
Thanks for the comments, much appreciated. Im surprised that you dont know who TurboDirect S.A is- we are the largest turbocharger business in South Africa for years. We hold all the OEM turbo brand agencies directly and have done so for more than a decade and a half. :-)
@@TurboDirectSA hi thanks you guys are not involved in the drag racing like being a sponsor of some kind as you know south Africans like horsepower and legal drag racing we have a few cars please contact me
@@user2917 The TurboDirect S.A sponsored twin turbo mustang is the only door drag car in Africa that has run a 6sec 1/4mile - driven by Gavin Wilkins. Almost all the top cars and bikes run products form TurboDirect S.A. Sakkie Van Jaarsveldt still holds the fastest 1000m sprint of 389.5km/h -- stands today for street legal bike. Theo Cahill ran 8.7Sec 1.4 mile at 297kmh done at ODI - full street legal bike Sakkie Van Jaarsveldt texas mile 1600m sprint from standing start - 409.6km/h - still stands!!
@@V8Lenny yeah that is correct it from the centre of the wheel to the centre of the area in the voute. you can see it in the diagram from the garret catalogue 7.23 in the video. However it possible that diameter of the wheel might happen to be the same as the radius from the centre of the wheel to the centre of the area in the volute.
Thats correct - the video title is "Turbine housing AR explained"- its got nothing to do with engine performance, its strictly related to housing AR only. If you have a question relating to a specific engine specification, and you can provide the complete engine spec outline, i would be more than happy to shed some light on your project for you.
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Thank you so much, I've been looking at so many sources trying to understand A/R in practice and this made it click for me. 10/10
Thanks for the feedback - glad you found a reliable source.
Outstanding. I'm 2 years late to the party but the advise is still pure GOLD.
I’ve got a couple of things that I think you should add. The plane that is used to cut the exhaust inlet volute must also bisect the center line of the turbine wheel. The radius is also measured to the center point of that volute cross section which can change depending on the size of the volute.
Thanks - as explained.
i wish there was a love button, very informative. keep it up
Thank you - i'm glad you are benefiting from these videos!
this is exactly what I thought was the correct place to measure the A/R and I could not find this info ANYWHERE else online! They all state measurement is from the inlet of the turbine which seemed crazy to me because you could have a big taper at the inlet without changing the inside of the exhaust housing and "change the A/R" without changing the function of the turbo. Thank you for explaining this properly and letting me know I wasn't going insane xD
Interesting info! I also initially thought A/R was Air Ratio. Now I know it's Area / Radius. Also impressive info at the end for a good summary of your AR housings smaller advantage.
Thanks for the compliment, glad you enjoyed the content.
Thank you so much for not shying away from the nitty gritty!!! There are a TON of videos that give the most basic explanation of what AR is without telling us anything past "less back pressure" instead of how the flow changes or any other specifics.
It's like people are afraid to to be informative/technical and it pisses me off! lol Thank goodness for HP academy, and you :P
Pleasure sir - glad you enjoyed it.
I like the map width enhancing tongue featcher. Your ramp tongue makes this AR act like a larger AR by changing the tangent angle to the wheel. Nicely done.
Much appreciated - videos coming soon with tests between our housings and other market available units.
looks like imbalance pressure on the turbine wheel
@@TurboAcki I wonder if that can cause a compressor stall in certain conditions, what those conditions might be, I don't know.
Never a let down. You give all the information anyone could need or want even if they didn't realise it at the start.
I think I need to get of the blower with Borg to find out the Area and Radius that make up their 70j88 0.92AR C-type turbine housing. Need to find out the change when 1 scroll is "blocked" for low rpm spool. already got mid and high rpm locked down just need to know what the AR would be to simulate its behaviour.
If is a symmetrical design, then its easy - divide the AR by two - if its asymmetrical, then it must be measured, which will require cutting the housing in half.....
@@TurboDirectSA I wasn't sure if it was as simple as AR/2. now I know. It's a symmetrical design C type housing.
With the crude implementation of the matchbot, I can get 20psi between 2k-4krpm with a EFR7163 but replace the 63mm turbine with a 70mm. They share the same core so I'm thinking it should work. Just want to pick up sub 2k response without a VGT added too many moving parts. This is on a 4.2L diesel.
@@liamcooper6721 Increasing the turbine size will reduce response - especially on a low revving Diesel application - stick to the 7163.
@@TurboDirectSA the 70 should work just as well for the range I'm looking. the 4.2L has enough torque under 2000rpm that it doesn't need the turbo like a >3L does and projected to have ~1.4bar by then without a QSV just using a duel scroll. It also allows me a boost range of 0.8-1.4 bar without too much loss either end. its not too big that it cant build boost by 2k and its not too small that it chokes from backpressure allowing efficient power without dumping too much heat into the charge air as well.
If I try to run a 63mm 0.8AR (only duel scroll on B1 frame) then I would projected to be at -1 Delta pressure by 3k and -10 by 4K which it not an efficiency loss I like looking at also means more charge air heat, less power.
Now all that being said, if I use a QSV on the 70mm it will pick up the sub 2k "lag" enough to where street driving and off-roading shouldn't feel like a slug (like a mazda 2.2L diesels from around 2015).
If this all fails its not hard to swap the smaller core or even try the 64mm 0.92.
Experimenting for the best package to my requirements is half the fun of what I want but a good starting point with the numbers. I'm not going to go stupid and drop a 9180 on it 🤣
You are a good teacher bro👍
@@ArinzePaul-qw7hq thank you!
I still recommend your videos all the time! Would love more tech chats. I also still want that one compressor vid your privated back. ;) What's the chance I could get a secret email link? Hahaha.
Lemme know what info you need - happy to help
Hi Chris, just a quick question, would a tdo6sl2 Chra be compatible with an is20 housing? Both intake housing and exhaust housing.
Unfortunately not the connection and internal structure is just not possible to combine this housing to the IS38 - I would never want to combine these anyway - there is no benefit at all --- for a reliable and powerful result - see here:-
store.turbodirect.co.za/index.php/shop/turbochargers/is38-550t-forged-5569-detail
and here:-
store.turbodirect.co.za/index.php/shop/turbochargers/is38-450t-forged-5568-detail
@@TurboDirectSA awesome thank you for your feedback, reason I ask is because the tdo6sl2 inducer and is20 exhaust exducer are used in the vortex xl but thank you for affirming that before I used 55-60k on buying one .
@@BeAllEndAll-i3e carful of the journal bearing turbochargers using the same diameter shaft (compressor hole diameter) they WILL fail - like the TTE, and others check my other videos on the IS38 turbo failures -- its covered in there.
Brilliant description!! Exactly what I needed to know
Happy to help
The real question is, "How much of a change/ difference" is 1 size larger A/R for a given turbo equal to? 300
It's unfortunately not possible to answer this question, it depends on a myriad of things from the engine build, fuel, boost, tuning, hardware and the list goes on. Physical testing on one engine will never yield the same results on another ---
Great video, I was wondering if I could please get some advice on rear housing size for my application.
I'm building a 2320cc inline six with twin turbo's on a custom manifold.
I have decided on a set of Arashi Gtx2560r Gen1 but can't decide if a .57 or .64 rear housing would be better for good response without too much sacrificing top end. This is a street car primarily.
Do you think a smaller .57 housing would be sufficient with good response in twin turbo arrangement or .64?
The goal is 500rwhp & 550rwhp on on E85 and rpm limit is 8k.
The other turbo option is twin G25-550 with .49 housing but i think its too big of a turbo ina twin application on 2.3ltr engine & too small exhaust housing, and I'll run into surge issues.
Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks for the comment - please provide more info on the engine itself. What engine is this? Is it forged? What is the RPM band limit? has the compression ratio been altered? What fuel and boost do you intend running? I would not normally advise on cheap chinese knock off turbos, as they are usually junk - just for the record.
@@TurboDirectSA @TurboDirectSA @TurboDirectSA Thanks for getting back to me, I understand regarding knock of turbos but these have a proven record and are the only ones that offer a gtx2560r in a updated 11 wheel compressor and turbo wheel. A reputable company here in Melbourne Australia, recommend them and use their core.
Engine is a Toyota 1ggte stroked out to 2320cc by HKS. It's all forged internals and has 81mm stroke and 78mm bore.
Compression is 8:5:1 as factory with HKS metal 78mm headgasket.
Fuel will be flex fuel with 98 octane for day to day and E85 for spirited driving.
Boost will be around 2 bar.
Heads have aftermarket springs with titanium retainers and a 256/264 camshaft combo. Usable RPM should be 4000 to 8000 maybe 8500.
Let me know if you need anything else and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.
@@autoprofinish3453 Thanks for the info - let me ask you a question, why do you want two turbos at double the cost and hassle of installation? Is this a show and shine vehicle? If its practical, i would install a single turbo and be done with it - better response, and more outright mass flow (more HP) with less boost. You also have the benefit of a twin scroll turbine housing design.
@@TurboDirectSA it's a show car and the 1G has unique intercooler piping I'd like to retain for aesthetic reasons. They look terrible with a single conversion. If I wanted a single it would be easy, but it must be a twin turbo.
I just want to know if. 57 housing would be giving up a lot of top end vs a. 64 and response loss.
The turbos size I selected should be sufficient and similar setup are used in GTR 2.6ltr with .64 rear housing. Hence why i wondered if a .57 would yield better response in a 2.3ltr VS .64 without sacrificing too much up top as the engine will need to rev to produce power due to displacement.
@@autoprofinish3453 they are small turbos and there are two of them. The 57s will not create much back pressure on 3cylinders on that small size engine
Awesome video! Thanks much as always.
Thanks for the compliment
Very useful video, Chris, thank you! I've never seen before that somebody open turbo housing for better explanation!
But the main thing for me that is how to choose right A/R housing for my engine. Is it possible to calculate turbo spooling and power with specific turbo, specific A/R turbo housing and specific engine? Or this is only question of practice and expirience.
Hi buddy - thanks for the comments. It is possible to create a plot map on the compressor showing where the engine will operate with a specific choice of turbocharger and the differences when choosing a different turbine housing - sure.
Could you do one on the effects of both the inducer and exducer on the compressor wheel and how they effect the compressor map?(air flow) .
Hello, I was unaware that turbo housings could be changed. I thought that whatever the measurements of a specific turbocharger were, it was more or less a fixed measurement. However if turbocharger housings could be changed. And response rate was more important to me with cheap amazon/ebay twin GT30 or GT35 turbos on a 5.3L LS what can be changed/modified on either the GT30 or GT35 turbochargers?
Turbine housings in specific family ranges are able to be changed - depending on the manufacturer. Garrett GT30 and GT35 housings are physically the same dimensions and interchangeable. Depending on your setup and turbo choice there could/could not be options.
Бузныг, дзабах радзырдтай турбинайа хабартта!👌
Nice, the right ex housing can make or break a setup which I've learnt the hard way lol
It is important to a reliable and properly functioning setup. Using the incorrect housing AR for an intended purpose or application can shorten the life of the turbo and obviously affect the setup.
@@sakkiebotha2416 In my case I wouldn't have had a failure, but gained heaps of mid range without losing any top end
Awesome video, I’ve been hunting around for someone to explain where the measurements are taken. I think at 7:52 the radius (in the context of an AR ratio) is not the same because it is measured to the center of the volute.
Thanks Steve for your comment, the AR is larger between two housings which use the same turbine, because of the volute area being larger or smaller. measurement for the calculation of any turbine housing is taken from the same place no matter what housing you trying to calculate the AR of.
excellent knowledge, wow for a fellow south african!
There is one thing I never hear anyone mention and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because I have it wrong, but a given A/R ratio on a small turbo would flow less air than the same A/R ratio on a larger turbo, correct? For instance, a .92 A/R on a g25-660 would flow much less than a .92 A/R on a G35-1050 ?
This is correct due to the higher flowing turbine - nothing to do with the A/R of the housing.
Very easy to listen to, very informative video. Thank you.
Please do a video on over boosting and oil contamination each and how this could happen?
Sure ill do this for you. It will come next week in a new video series on failures.
Hi, I’ve got a question for you I have a 21 Infiniti Q60, and I just want to know what brand or who makes the turbos for that car. Thank you for your time and also great great videos for a person that doesn’t know much about a turbo I’m learning a lot. Thank you.
Garrett - part# 883938-5002S
Pardon me I'm watching you on TV and my telephone at the same time I'm talking about the Turbo direct that you're supposed to be coming up with or being able to sell last month or this month I want one of yours
Machining starts next week on the new bath of turbine housing castings, and we will begin with the compressor housings soon afterwards.
Please do a video on compressor maps and how high altitude affects turbo choice. Also an explanation on how to use tools like garret boost advisor and BW matchbot.
Thank you for the suggestion - Ill put this on the list.
Great vid! Can you guys make a video about twin scroll vs regular turbine housing with the same ar.?
Great idea - will do
@@TurboDirectSA can’t wait set my notification on for you guys! 👍🏼
Earned my sub...thank you...looking forward to checking out what you have.
Thank you Joshua
Could too small an A/R cause boost spiking ? 2.5 MZR engine. Gtx3076r, .63 Turbine housing A/R, 38mm tial wastegate, 3 inch straight pipe from the turbo back. Too much pre turbine back pressure and the waste gate can’t keep up ? What would cause it to level out pretty fast and then hold gate pressure and never creep, only spike initially.
Hey Alex, send me more info on the engine used, boost level and compression ratio of the engine. Also what fuel you using? How are you controlling the gate?
Well done .
1data on how much better the exhaust flow is on Gxx-xxx Vs older. I've been reading on many sites the normal appropriate size exhaust housing is way too sloppy loose/ boggy because of the enhanced flow.Eg Mazda Miata installed a .92 because that's what his previous comparable needed to be happy had to change his housing do a .72 to get the quality of response
2 Could you try to give us a way to cross frame size(EG s257 t2 [#2 frame ] AR to s360sxe .70 t3 [#3 frame]
With the reacent t2 #2 g25, efr b2,s200, or ,he221 ~200-700bhp chargers are pushing 2x the air of past designs of small t3(#3) hx35 ~160-400bhp , the need to convert from stock #3 system to a higher peak power, faster spooling, lighter mass #2 turbo. Who needs /wants a 900bhp lag master on a 2- 300bhp 800-1200tq making it produce 160bhp and 400tq ( essentially what Cummins did with the first generation Ram by putting a 21cm (cummins version of A/R:)on there 350bhp H1C .
Just ordered a g25-550 .72 vband/vband. For my LOW RPM (2000 RPM hp peak) 5.9l diesel .
The bosh VE 45 Injection is NOT capable of pushing more than 350-400hp of fuel (currently factory set 160hp, dynoed 173.8whp(~250hp crank) 491tq .)
If I can get Will and Todd at Power Driven Diesel to schedule me another dyno session I'll find out what a hx35/10cm 52, 76 mm +QSV (=5cm) drive ratio is .7-1.5.
S362sxe67/.80+QSV DR is ..5-1:1
1) The newer G series turbine housings are nothing like the older model families. these are all clean sheet designs, so nothing previously made in the GT or GTX series is a direct comparison. These are not T3 or T4 family housing designs.
2) Impossible to do without having the turbine housings physically in front of you, cross sectioning them and physically measuring the A (Area) value and then measuring the Diameter for the R value and then doing the maths. Each manufacturer uses their own testing on a gas burner and measures all the parameters, pressures, EGT's, Mach air speed, air flow through the turbine, RPM of the turbine etc in order to ensure firstly reliability (the turbine vibrations through blade excitation does not exceed the 4th order - resulting in blade burst, or breakage etc) and then doing the necessary changes to the volute size and designs to finalise the product for market release.
HX35 housings are alot larger than you expect, you'll see when you play with them on an engine. Been there and got educated :-)
I need more explanations done by a South African accent. Also excellent video
your videos are very informative, what would be the benefit of lets say for example, putting a bigger a/r turbine housing on a hybrid is38, would egts be less, would flow rates be better.
This is exactly what we did with the IS38-700 and the IS38-600 -- see here:- ruclips.net/video/N_sNwMPGNkM/видео.html
good info,so how A/R is affected when you change the turbine wheel to a larger one? does this increase o decrease that A/R number? does boring the housing afects the tongue too? thanks
Machining the profile larger in diameter for a larger wheel will not change the AR of the housing at all because the centre to centre distance between the Radius inside the housing volute has not changed in relation to the centre of the volute tract at the tongue. What you need to be careful of is not to machine away the tongue when opening up a housing internally, as this will totally change the housings characteristics.
so informative!! thx
Thank you Carl.
Hi, That's excellent. Now that you've explained A/R can you do a video on choosing A/R? A video the same as the 4AGE video showing the effect of different turbos but instead showing the effect of different A/R would be great
Im planning on doing this together with a physical turbo change on my dyno to show the calculations and results in a real world example.
This video is going to be great!
great job explaining. thank you
(Editing the comment to be change its tone a little).
I have a couple of questions:
First, isn't the radius measured to the centroid of the area?
Second, when reducing the area along the volute do you not use constant angular momentum?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the comment Lucjan, yes you are 100% correct - the Radius is measured from the centre of the turbine exducer position to the centre of the volute shape, which is cut through the tongue (centre line of the housing)
Reduction of the volute has everything to do with each housing design, how much it reduces, over distance, or circumference, or if it changes shape or not, is entirely up to the design of the housing. There are no "rules" per se. The housings we design are tried and tested before released into the market and we have our own set of guidelines and design parameters internal to our volute structures.
@@TurboDirectSA thanks for the reply.
I once had to do a redesign of a volute for a micro turbo genset, and knew very little about them back then. I found that the original design was too tight about halfway its length. And cfd showed a very large velocity gradient at the tongue.
So I redesigned it using the constant angular momentum approach, which helped to mitigate most of that gradient. I wondered what was your approach in optimizing the shape. I appreciate that this might be a trade secret, though.
I re-read my comment. I didn't mean it in a hostile way, perhaps I was just a little too tired when typing it.
@@lucjannastalek9978 It is a secret to be honest, and the housing design works 100% together with the turbine ability to "use" the mach speed, volume and pressure of the energy at the tongue, aswell as the turbines ability to drive the compressor on the other side with the shaft power (shaft blade design comes into play) depending on the compressors design, mass etc. This is why we use CFD simulation to marry up all these components and find a result that we are happy with. Then its mapping the compressor to see if any of this affects the surge limit and what the resulting flow capabilities are overall. Its not easy at all, and we have made many mistakes, and continue to make mistakes, but we have resources available to us that povide answers and shed light on the subject, which we use to attempt to solve the issues/problems/challenges and re-run the tests and simulations before making moulds - even once we have made moulds, we find problems, and land up making new moulds with changes.... Its a very expensive exercise and frustrating to say the least, but with every challenge comes experience and we learning daily.
We choose to share only some of the info with the channel viewers and are limited to what we willing to share for obvious reasons - the chinese are always watching, stealing and "borrowing" ideas, and designs.....
I did not take offence at all buddy - dont stress, i appreciate your comments.
Do you have any information on the turbine housing "flow channel" to the turbine inducer?
I see some turbine housing that are nice wide channels, and others that are pratically just slits. Not having much luck finding any technical information about this area.
Unfortunately nothing we willing to share. Apologies.
@@TurboDirectSA I can respect that! Tells me I may be on the right track to what I am thinking on my project. Thanks.
Can you tall us something about whats the best and most efficient A/R?
T3 housings can be 0.63 og 0.82. but how does a T4 A/R0.58 compare on the same turbo / turbinewheel? Does a T4 A/R0.58 flow better than a T3 A/R082? How about spool up it beeing bigger all around but having a smaller A/R? I have heard someting about the angle the exhaust gases hits the turbine wheel inducer. Thanks.
Hi Finn - thank yo for the comment - the T3 and T4 housing families are completely different in the size and AR volute dimensions. The turbine wheel that operates inside them is also different. The T4 housings will spool much later than the T3 housings (using the same size turbine shaft) due to the larger Volute dimensions (volume inside the T4 housing is alot larger) - this T4 housing has less back pressure as a result, and will flow more freely up top of the engines RPM and will make slightly more power - engine dependant. I might have some scrap T4 housings lying around, which i will cross section for you and make a video showing this to give you a better understanding of this.
Thanks...great video
Sir, i just had a doubt how do you know what size of turbo to use or if your engine is compatible with the turbo of your choosing?
Check the channel - there are some videos on this topic.
Do you make stainless twin scroll turbine housings for SX-E BW turbos?
Not at this time no - we are concentrating on our own designs for now
Is Garrett GTX3071R GEN II .61 vband turbine housing same as yours?
No it is nothing the same at all, Garrett use one casting for both the 30 and 35 family - which has a great negative effect on spool for the 30 family housing as a result due to the distance between the tongue and inducer blades and a few oter reasons.
@@TurboDirectSA where I can order your housing?
@@tuksee please shoot an email to info@turbodirect.co.za attention Chris
Chris do you guys stock those heat shields behind you?
Are you referring to the Downpipes? If so yes, but not the shielding alone. We use it to shield the DP's they come cut in specific sizes already which are welded onto the pipes.
Are you referring to the Downpipes? If so yes, but not the shielding alone. We use it to shield the DP's they come cut in specific sizes already which are welded onto the pipes.
Great video, thank you. Recently i removed 0.61 turbine housing from new garrett G30, and i was very dissapointed considering pruchasing price, that there was huge gap(say over 5mm) between tongue and turbine wheel inducer diameter. Probably, garrett try to save a production cost, using castings designed for bigger turbine wheels also on smaller wheels. That must somehow effect function, isnt? How big/small gap is suggested there?
Thanks for the comment - this is why our housings are much better at controlling spool up time and back pressure. There are "tricks" that when paid some attention to, they will yield a favourable result. The larger the gap the less responsive the turbine stage - GENERALLY speaking. There are other aspects that also play a part in this aswell.
@@TurboDirectSA Do you think, its worth a risk, to add here material by tig welding (as housing is "stainless"..) and close the gap somehow, maybe resulting in similar scroll end shape as in your housings. Or weld going to separate later in future, and destroying the turbo? Its very unpleasant feeling using expensive shxxxt product, when trying to make a car better.
@@MotortunePhoB This wont be possible - i tried this once and made a hash pf the housing, had to abandon the housing after that.
Love it I said 300, 400, 500, horsepower volkswagens and Audi's I want to 700, 750 horsepower 3.5 ecoboost With your Turbo direct design and technology
Thank you
What's the difference between twin scroll and single scroll A/R let's say 0.85 twin scroll vs 0.81 single scroll, is the twins scroll actually a lot smaller or is it factored somehow into the calculation?
Great question - the size/AR/volume of the volute is always calculated in the same manner no matter which style/scroll design. So the AR81 single scroll is smaller physically than the twin scroll AR85. It doesnt matter what the design/scroll of the volute it, the AR relates to the AREA of the volute (at the tongue) divided by the Radius of the turbine blade -
Love this!
Thank you sir!
What housing would make for a better top end t4.58 or t3.63
What rotating assembly will be operating inside ?
@@TurboDirectSA ball bearing
@@TurboDirectSA this is for lsvtec fully built about 1.85 liters
@@Nadimarco90 Which turbo Nicholas? The AR63 usually fits the 30 and 35 family size rotating assemblies. What HP Target do you have in mind?
What is the car used for? Track, drag, street, drift etc??
@@TurboDirectSA it’s for a drag car 6266 750 hp ish maybe more
What does for example M53 on compressor housing mean? Cannot find out what the M number means. Thanks for reply.
These are casting numbers, the refer to pattern numbers - i have had this question many times - its nothing to do with the housing or its volute size/specifications at all.
@@TurboDirectSA thanks
@@vratislavrusz9284 Pleasure sir
What about t3 vs t4 rears when they have the same a/r are they actually the same size? For eg t3 1.01 vs t4 1.01 is it just the flange that's different?
David, no they are different family housings, therefore different sizes internally - even with the same AR number/digit, the physical volume inside the housings are different. E.G T3 AR82 is a smaller housing physically internally (the volume of the volute inside the housings scroll) compared to a T4 AR58 - the digit/number does not relate to overall size when comparing housings from different families.
@TurboDirectSA can we change a t4 housing to a t3 or need different shaft? Pte 6262 t4 .68ar to a t3 .63 ar?
Hi please explain if I'm using a A/R 58 housing on a single scroll turbo and I want to upgrade to dual scroll what size A/R should I look at.
Mobeen please give me more information about this setup, what motor, what turbo, etc
so the volute size of a t4 ar.68 and t3.63 would be similar? both using the same radius turbine wheel
Thats a very good question, the answer is No not at all -- this is a misconception made very easily by identifying the housing by its AR NUMBER - this is not how its done. The AR64 T28/GT28 turbine housing volute is SMALLER than the T3 (large family turbocharger) AR48. The T3 AR82 turbine housing is smaller than the T4 AR58 housing. The NUMBER relates to the volute area in that family model range, and are not comparable to the other family housings. Ill go into more detail on this in a separate video for you -
@TurboDirect S.A 7:50 same wheel R = same
76mm turbine t2 vs 76mm turbine t3 is not the same 76mm Radius ?
(I know this is not how it works) Therefore .75 on both would have the same crossection, or the wheel is not what R is refuring to.
Is the arc to the Centerline of the cross-section measured area? ( Centerline of a teardrop is difficult to find[devided housing])
Thank you for putting up the knowledge for the world to learn and being patient enough to answer the world's questions.
Dammit Dave
Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality
@@daviddroescher even though the diameter of the turbine is the same in the two different housings, the AR will be totally different because the area in the volute (A = area) is larger. Changing any of the A or R values will change the resulting AR value. So in using two different housing "families" (larger A=area values) will result in larger turbine housing AR and lower backpressures and increased lag - provided the internal design, tongue etc are identical.
I have a k24 with a t3 manifold what do you think would be better .48.63 or .82 n what trim 50 54 57 or 60...it's a Garret turbo I just don't know what speciation would be best looking to make at least 800hp
Forget about making 800HP with a T3 AR48 turbine housing. It will be a long stretch to make 800HP with even running the AR63 turbine housing ---- you will need a turbo that is able to provide the high flow ability up top engine RPM - without falling off, or you will battle to make 800HP - the engines VE in this case is in the high engine RPM - so any turbo too small or with too much back pressure (small turbine housings) wont cut it. you will need to have something in the 1000HP capable range so that you don't screw the turbo to its max permanently while making that target HP. I would definitely consider the Airwerks range of turbos, for the best bag for the buck - these are the most bullet proof journal bearing options around currently.
The EFR8474 Black Series will work very well on this setup aswell and will make the power with the best all round response for the street should it be used for this purpose. The smallest turbine housing AR on the 8474 is AR83 with T3 inlet flange face.
Definitely looking into it now...would It it make more sense to get a ball bearing upgrade if it's available???
The manifold I'm running is a external wastegate I see that the turbo recommend is a internal waste gate ..
The manifold I'm running is a external wastegate I see that the turbo recommend is a internal waste gate ..
@@cinndyyramoutarr Ball Bearing is expensive, BUT has its advantages and they are great advantages (we'll get to the DIS-advantages last) Spool is improved, and so is thrust loading "consumption"
Price and repairs -- always the biggest DIS-advantages - the Airweks journal bearing turbos are designed specifically for massive boost (just look at the P2C ratio on the compressor maps - MUCH higher than many ball bearing counterparts. In actual fact some of the JB units are able to withstand higher rotational speeds SIZE FOR SIZE -- especially the large frame turbos - more on this for another discussion.
I have a 1.9L 8v stroker engine and im currently contemplating building a sidewinder i have a Owens Development GT5471 turbo...what size tubes would you say my sidewinder be built from...im guessing equal length is best!?
We use the 1.3/4" schedule 40 (3mm wall thickness) stainless tubing.
TurboDirect S.A thank you 😊
@@cetGT3 Pleasure
How does a different A/R ratio change the compressor map?
The lower backpressure by changing the turbine housing AR, relates in higher HP numbers - how does this happen. Well the more flow through the turbine (less backpressure) allows the compressor to be driven faster (higher rotational rpm) - simple as that.
Hey
I can not calculate the turbine housing.
Somewhere there is an error. The body of the GT35 0.82 has a section of 11 cm2, while the radius from the turbine axis to the center of this area is approximately 5.4 cm. We get 11/5.4=2.01. The question is, how is AR = 0.82 calculated??? Thank you very much, your videos are very interesting and informative.
Found a table that I don't understand...
((CM x 8) - 7) / 100 = a/r ratio
6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R
9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R
14 cm2 = 1.05 A/R
16 cm2 = 1.21 A/R
18 cm2 = 1.37 A/R
21 cm2 = 1.61 A/R
I would be grateful for clarification if possible.
You will not be able to calculate anything without cutting open the housing and taking an actual measurement - im not sure where you got the figure from, but unless they are actual measurements taken off of a cast housing which is dissected across the tongue, you will be in the dark. Secondly how did you measure the volume of the shape in the Garrett housing?
TIP - 3D scan the shape and convert this to a 2D drawing, and let the drawing package measure the volume for you. If you don't have a 3D scanner, use a material with a known density and cut it into a shape that ALMOST fits into the volute opening where you have cross sectioned the housing (it must not fit inside the hole, otherwise its too small) and then use a burette with a liquid to measure the volume of the part, and use that for the calculation.
@@TurboDirectSA Thank you very much for your answer. I tried to navigate visually, to the place where the tongue is located. I also looked at the data of the cases that are sold on ebay and AR and area are indicated there in cm2. I'm trying to model in the program and I get a visually smaller section with AR 0.82 than I see on the finished case. I take the distance from the axis of rotation of the shaft to the center of mass of the area. If everything is as you say, then I'm on the right track, thank you for shedding light on this area.
@@DenisDorokhin Pleasure - sorry pal, no measurement = incorrect calculation. Its that simple. Cut the housing and measure it. If you know its an AR82 why you measuring it?
@@TurboDirectSA Still, I have a problem... Take a GT35 with a diameter of 68mm, the radius is 3.4cm, let's simplify, and imagine a circular inlet with a radius of 1.3cm, then A/R = 3.14*1.3*1.3/(3.4+1.3) = 5.3/4.7 = 1.27! But before my eyes I keep the GT35 case with AR 0.82 and there is clearly more area and less AR. Tell me where am I wrong? 5.3cm2 is very little to enter the turbine, right? I try to design my body... a hobby. Thank you for your answers.
@@DenisDorokhin Cut the housing - not possible the way you doing it. imagining is not accurate. Cut the housing open and measure the volume. Without this you will never come right.
How would this differ from cm² ??
Its simply the calculation result is in CM2 instead of inches. The method used to calculate the AR remains the same. Area over Radius.
I'm looking and I looked for this 700 horse I asked 3800 excuse me IS38 700 All I see are 304 105 100 horse volkswagens an Audi's do you make these for a 3.5 Ford ecoboost Or something that schools and works like they do
No bolt on options for the ecoboost from my stable as yet -- perhaps something to come in the future.
@@TurboDirectSA I'm projecting having this project complete by Spring End of March maybe even into mid April I don't suppose you'll be ready just yet?
@@johnhoward6551 Not bolt on for the Ecoboost motors no -- we dont even get these in S.A, so for me to design something, it would require a vehicle/engine to work on physically to work around the geography available under the hood.
@@TurboDirectSA In my mind you would certainly be the man for the job Thank you for all the information and your work
@@johnhoward6551 Thanks pal!
Subbed
Be careful you used cubic in/cm when Area should be square in/cm.
You are correct indeed - apologies, mistake there.
Proudly south Africa I definitely going to buy a turbo from this company because the knock off turbos is really a waste of time the only problem is that most of people don't know this company.
Thanks for the comments, much appreciated. Im surprised that you dont know who TurboDirect S.A is- we are the largest turbocharger business in South Africa for years. We hold all the OEM turbo brand agencies directly and have done so for more than a decade and a half. :-)
@@TurboDirectSA hi thanks you guys are not involved in the drag racing like being a sponsor of some kind as you know south Africans like horsepower and legal drag racing we have a few cars please contact me
@@user2917 The TurboDirect S.A sponsored twin turbo mustang is the only door drag car in Africa that has run a 6sec 1/4mile - driven by Gavin Wilkins. Almost all the top cars and bikes run products form TurboDirect S.A.
Sakkie Van Jaarsveldt still holds the fastest 1000m sprint of 389.5km/h -- stands today for street legal bike.
Theo Cahill ran 8.7Sec 1.4 mile at 297kmh done at ODI - full street legal bike
Sakkie Van Jaarsveldt texas mile 1600m sprint from standing start - 409.6km/h - still stands!!
@@TurboDirectSA thanks for the info those are very good
OK I'm sold when can I have my pair of 750 horsepower turbos for my 3.5 Eco boost
Next week we should have stock on hand of the new castings, and machining completed in a week thereafter. Then you ready to rock.
Mitsubishi follows a similar design i believe. Please take it as a compliment.
Thank you for the compliment
Three clindor engion bor 104 strok115 .2931 cc with intercooler 75 hp engion a /r Rico ya terbo charger no holset
Are you requesting a holset turbo for this engine?
Engion rated rpm 2300
Eveco engion tractor
R is not the radius of the wheel.. It even says it in that catalog.
It clearly states Radius in the catalogue - ruclips.net/video/NUet-QO6DSQ/видео.html
Radius from shaft to center point of area.
@@V8Lenny yeah that is correct it from the centre of the wheel to the centre of the area in the voute. you can see it in the diagram from the garret catalogue 7.23 in the video. However it possible that diameter of the wheel might happen to be the same as the radius from the centre of the wheel to the centre of the area in the volute.
you still do very nice videos, and i like the way you explain stuff and are not afraid to tell the full story.
@@davidwallis4567 Thank you - we will always share all the facts.
all i hear is A/R A/R he does not explain what it actually means vs. engine performance etc.
Thats correct - the video title is "Turbine housing AR explained"- its got nothing to do with engine performance, its strictly related to housing AR only. If you have a question relating to a specific engine specification, and you can provide the complete engine spec outline, i would be more than happy to shed some light on your project for you.
Great demonstration. Radius however is half a diameter. From the shaft to the center of the volute at the tongue. Principle still applicable however.
I did think the drawing referenced was showing this.