The Finals is Not Balanced, Actually...
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- The Finals is Not Balanced, Actually...
original video:
• THE FINALS Is Well-Bal...
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Nerf ottr, he's too OP, someone from Ospuze should sign him....
Iseul-t comes in last second and snatches him from ospuze😱
OSPUZE?
@@ospuze no fucking way
Anyone else pronounce like ospuzzy?
@@mrlucius57I say it ospuuuuuuuze
14:40 the reason they didnt remove nukes earlier is because they like strategies like that and they think it is cool so they wanted to try and nerf it to make it viable but not op
and? so all my friends quit the game and most other people i know quit under the same circumstances. the nuke spam was so braindead. congratulations on losing half the playerbase i guess?
Then they come out with an amazing counter for nukes with the data reshaper but its too late since nukes are gone now.
@@DNYLNYit’s barely a counter for grenades. How are you going to consistently reshape a gas canister flying at 20 mph?
Nukes coule be easy to counter if they make canisters blow after a few shots. But nope, they like to make their game being more boring and poor creativy.
The "stratigies" in question: A projectile that could insta wipe a whole team by simply throwing a C4 on a barrel, insane "strategy"
When I watched the Rockhound video I was like, OK - sure, the game doesn't feel too bad most of the time. I generally feel like my own bad decision / aim were responsible for my losses. And it can be hard as a player to separate dying to a skill play from dying because of an imbalance.
But you make some good points. I'd like to subscribe to your "balance to the comp elites and the rest will fall in line" newsletter. But I also don't think it's that easy. 2 issues come to mind.
A) Weapons play differently at different skill levels. For instance flamethrower. It is a throw in high (or even mid, where I live) ranked, but it can rack up easy kills in lower skill lobbies. If you balance it until it gets traction in ranked, it will absolutely terrorize lower skill lobbies. People would rage.
B) As you said, high ranked players will take any advantage. So as soon as a new build / weapon is 1% better, the meta will start to flip. So balancing at that tier is like balancing on a pin head.
I think they need to create a new self-balancing game mode, and gather data from it. Every item gets an effectiveness scaler, so if something is a little underused it's +2% aim assist. If it's way underused it's +5% aim assist and +1 damage. Heal beam is everywhere? It barely heals. Mesh shield hits 70% heavy usage rate? Health drops by 30% and 10% slower charge. And so on. These modifiers update in real time based on usage stats. So each player would look at the modifiers and pick based on what they think will give them the best advantage at the time. Then Embark can look at the usage stats and see how they ebb and flow as things get buffed and debuffed. With enough data it should give them a sense of where the gear sort of breaks even relative to other gear. Then they can tune accordingly.
Never heard this particular idea, I like it.
That sounds absolutely INSANE, just insane enough that it might be brilliant.... You might be cooking up a 5 star meal over here
yo self balancing mode would be insane
Its clear the video was targeted at a more casual audience who is prone to complaining about balance regardless of their skill level. Same thing happens in fighting games with tier lists despite the fact that the power of a character is really only limiting at the highest levels of play.
So this is just like that skill curve: below avg player says game is unbalanced, avg player says its balanced, above avg player says its unbalanced.
"complaining about balance regardless of their skill level" applies to all The Finals players. this playerbase has probably the most whiney, childlike crybabies ive ever seen
T.A. should be a permanent game mode. It generated a lot more traffic and is the only reason my friends and I even came back to play the finals again. I like having fast, medium, and slow style game modes.
I believe it will make a permanent return in S3, an embark dev came out on the discord awhile back and said how TA works really well on the season 3 map.
Play it more
With a ranked mode for it too
5 vs 5 is better than 3vs3
@@HervooTrue. Power Shift and Terminal Attack are really fun. Especially when you get those clutch outplays in both game modes.
It took 4 months to remove nukes because it was a unique feature of the game and it was always the case that shooting the canister or hitting it with a grenade would wipe their team instead of them wiping you. I played during the open beta, tried full range nukes out on light and heavy, and ended up rarely using them. During that same time the stun gun completely shut you down and the healing beam, turret, and defibs were stronger than they are today. You had to be schizo no matter what class you were playing so long as your enemies were using more than just their guns, and for the most part I liked it. I would describe it as gloriously unbalanced.
thats the battlefield way i its all unbalanced then its balanced
I would agree. The game wasnt really much more well balanced then but it was much more fun. Now its still unbalanced and getting less fun patch after patch, because yeah I guess they're catering to an audience that dont play the game very well.
@@m.poppins4843exactly my experience, I’m more of a weekend gamer and with the weekly patches i seriously got tired of trying to keep up with this game, I loved when it launched but now it’s a little exhausting
From my own personal experience, switching from light to either medium or heavy. Just makes the game easier. I put in half the effort i would have to put in on light to do well.
same started running heavy and ranked and its actually just the game on easy mode. ive been getting to the final round pretty much every tournament in plat while just shooting back and letting my medium pocket heal me. while on light, i had to become gods chosen player just for 1 pick that was insta defibed anyway which i couldnt contest due to 50% of my hp gone from 3 bullets.
Are your running light the same way you’d run heavy or medium? If so that’s why, different classes exist for a reason and you just need to learn the different playstyles
Light is glass cannon, it should have the most OP weapons and gadgets of all classes. so far they've nerfed the shotgun , C4 , stun , invis. if you nerf these you should buff Light's HP in my opnion.
but heavies can still instant swap to rocket launcher and instant fire a rocket with super fast bullet travel... no sound clue, no timing to evade, nothing. It has been my main concern since open beta
This should've gone on ottr reacts. If he wants to help the finals be positive he should've done a fully fleshed out response video and directed people to rockhound vid to gain context
There are two kinds of Finals players: exploiters and non exploiters. People who complain about things like the sword probably are being destroyed by the emote cancel exploit that makes it preform well, but people who say buff heavy have been coasting free wins and kills for so long they cant walk without their crutches against competant players. The real issues were things like nukes/recon senses/triple rpg and things that require less thought and hands free for easy advantages - my 2cents
Only issue with the emote cancel is that it can easily be macro-ed and that's a little bit frustrating when it's possible to remove the skill so easily
@buzzzthatbeebuzzin6523 yeah well lots of competitive shooters have issues with macros, only thing they can do is to minimize the effect it has on gameplay and adjust other issues they can fix yk
@@Maximusls2400 you havent played against kids who can 280 you in 2 dashes before you can 150 them I can tell
@@seanhoncho4348 its a sword, just dont let them get close. skill issue
@@seanhoncho4348Yeah was literally just about to say this played today got about 4 shots out of my fcar before dying. Vanish bomb into dash there's nothing you can do before dying basically
20:20 There's one flaw in your logic: what happens at the top level is NOT representative of the game
I believe the game should be balanced top down cause why should you suffer for being good at the game
You're supposed to learn the game. The game shouldn't be designed to fit you.
@haku4841 who do you think suffers more, a top player or a casual player? cause I guarantee you the casual will suffer more and just stop playing then when the casuals stop playing the game will die off.
Bro idk why its like this for every FPS community. "Casual only" players just dont get this for some reason: Believe it or not, top level balance, means low level is balanced too.
Top level players test the meta, and use the strongest items and team comps to have the best chances of winning. They find what is unbalanced.
Casual players just use what they want, and when they start seeing what those top level players are using from RUclips and twitch, they start using them.
Casual players aren't testing the meta, so they're not finding what's imbalanced. Idk how you could think balancing around casual play would result in a balanced game.
Is siege balanced? Yeah? Well it's balanced around esports.
Is CS2 balanced? Yeah? Well it's balanced around ranked.
Is CoD balanced? No? Because it's balanced around public Casual lobbies.
@@Jett_Wave so you're saying what happens at the top level is not representative of the game?
I'd say that because the TTK spread is so wide, both across weapons and classes, that it has the appearance of being unbalanced to people coming from other tighter games. People aren't used to having to pick their engagements so carefully.
My friend picking light and using smokes with thermal
As a Heavy main since launch, this game is nowhere close to being balanced yet lmao.
Edit: You can tell this is a passion project by a relatively small dev team. They have A LOT to figure out. I think theyre on the right track for what its worth
Light's issue is that light is only really good as a pick class and a lot of the gadgets used to get picks were kinda gimmicky. At least the glitch grenade is good util, everything else is a bit weak against good players.
that thumbnail is hilarious 😂
Its even funnier cause a glitch grenade or glitch barrel just completely shuts all of that down lol
15:49 I agree that nukes were terrible for the game but I don't think that embark trying to balance them before giving up on them completely should be used as an example of embark not knowing what they are doing. They liked the idea, tried to make it work, then eventually realized that it wouldn't work. Same with the recon sense thing.
Embark have a problem. They have to balance the game for casual and for high elo.
Light got destroyed because of its over abundance in casual and the same will probably happen to the heavy when S3 drops.
Also, there's nothing wrong with being a heavy main😂😂. Not having one is a detriment to the team.
thats what apex legends failed at
Yeah fr Embark are far too underrated i hope they do extremely well with their new game, arc raiders.
Though The finals is still doing incredibly well
It was going to be like a 6+ player coop about shooting robots but they recently change the genre to extraction shooter. Lots of ppl that were on board with the original concept were bummed out but here’s to hoping it’s actually good.
no finals is doing not well its the complete opposite even nexon the money behind them said they are hard underperforming player wise
Underperforming in terms of sales/revenue, not with the quality of their product inherently. Many are good in terms of quality but may not do as well in sales. Hi-fi rush as an easy example of this.
@@gabrielwilliams8827 also in the playerbase
@@shusakudake they are corporate what do you expect nothing is enough for them they just want more money money money
In my experience, the issue is the ease of building a squad and only having one ranked mode. It gives some an advantage because unless you manage to build a team you're likely losing.
Ottr taking notes from my comment before making this video✏️✏️✏️
Just goes to show the community doesn't know Jack squat about gaming balance, hence why every single game has terrible balancing throughout. They need to hire common sense people to play the game and see what needs balanced. The real answer is, Nerf Heavy, Buff Light, Leave Medium alone. Heavy shouldnt kill with ease being a 350 health tank, that's a support role so nerf all there one shot capabilities on light. Light needs a complete buff to make them even throughout rank, clearly games dieing rapidly and they are never picked in top tier lobbies. Medium is simply the entry level role, but also the support .
This video shows the true arrogance of ottr, as much as I hate to say it. OC is 100% correct, but because ottr is a pro player he refuses to accept that it could possibly be a skill issue.
💀 nice copium
@@J0ttaD wow, completely destroyed me with that, my days of commenting are over now; how will I ever recover from such a vicious attack 😭
yeah im starting to see that
How would that make him arrogant? He’s saying the game isn’t perfect. If the game was perfect I’m pretty sure it’d have more players
@@dakotamann7900 2 words destroyed this sad man
IMO the triangle (rock paper scissors) should be, heavy beats light, light beats medium, medium beats heavy. Heavy’s have the smallest damage in the game, but can tank long enough to kill a light. Lights have fast enough dps for medium, and medium have enough health to sustain and kill heavy’s. but currently heavy’s just beat everything (in a straight 1v1 with aimbot).
RPGs are the new nukes, I wish they were more for utility and not just extra damage. Give it a rocket jump, deal extra building destruction / turret killers.
A lot of balance also relies on skill in this game. Revolver is a perfect example, got an aimbot? It’s busted, no hands? It’s dawgg
Same with the sword.
The trouble is when low skill = high damage / win output. Aka HHM + Healbeam x2 rpg
Something that’s low skill should deal little damage, something that deals high damage should require higher skill.
But that’s IMO from a plat revolver main :)
Heavy’s don’t beat every everything I split my time between heavy and light I’m better with light but place top of the leaderboard every game with both I beat heavy’s in 1v1s all the time you just need to get better
@@kneedragcaptain teemo on duty!
I’m sorry ottr, I love and respect you as a content creator, but you said nukes way too many times brother. I’m sorry they left you that amount of scaring to make your entire point based around that idea, but they aren’t in the game anymore. There really is no reason to even talk about them. if they didn’t reign as long as they did, you probably would’ve brought up a point about the second longest/biggest issue there was in the game. I really do believe that the devs do know where they are going with it and what they are doing, but all you care about is the top level of it. You realize you did the throwing knife to diamond right?
The point of mentioning was to counter the idea that "the devs know what they're doing". The state of the game is much better now that nukes are gone. The problem is it took them 4 months to finally take them out of the game. So ottr is right.
@@crypix In a broad stance, yes, but if you consider that the devs were already trying to deal with it during those 4 months, he's wrong. He's trying to portray that the didn't care, when in fact, they did! They just didn't want to remove it entirely so they could keep the game mechanic.
@Andrewstown THIS RIGHT HERE the devil did totally care, they were just trying to keep a "fun" feature in the game some way.
7:50 LOOK AT HIS AIM, AINT NO WAY THIS BRO IS TELLNG US WE ARE THE ISSUE LMAO
that just proves his point more
I mean the guy is right to extent of skill matters if u can reach the “im a god stage” but I do agree with the light needs to be brought back into some high level gameplay instead of having MMH and HHM. Personally I don’t know ho they could do that but my top idea would be faster health regen bc when I used to play light I would find myself waiting for so long to heal and not being able to fight back.
That’s not a bad idea, in fact that’s an amazing idea! You should be able to see more full health lights during fights. Props to you good sir!
How can the heavy be adjusted without messing with any of the gadget/specialisation balance. Health down to 325, 315 Or even 300? I feel like heavy has enough gadgets to help their survivability. The charge i feel is a bit too strong at 130 damage maybe lowering that? It’s fun to delete people with it but idk if it’s a good balance.
I just want them to add 1 more melee option for medium and heavy. Like a longsword and a greatsword. they might not be good but they would be fun
This game has some of the most fun gadgets and physics Ive ever seen. Why there isnt a casual party mode that takes the most fun gadgets and and physics to 10 is beyond me. I would love to see morraco with way more cranes and everyone is playing grapple sword that would be insanely fun and isnt serious
from every controversy and argument in this community i have seen i can confidently conclude the issues with the game are from the playerbase, not the game
Okay i have a problem, and Apex legends can be a great example of this. When Devs cater to the pro high level players who consist of no more than TEN percent of the player base, youre truly making the game for a minority instead of the majority. High elo pleayers play so mucb difderntly than casual players, theres a reason why you can play any class casually but only play double heavies and medium. We gotta stop drooling over these pro/ high elo players because most of the player base will never be able to put the same amount of time in as them and be as good. No offense to otter, but we need a true majority voice from each level of skill in the playerbase.
facts my brother, spit you shit indeed
I feel like it goes the other way too, where casual players don’t really care about balance as much as the sweats so you’d be appealing to more people with the changes
I see lights in diamond lobbies
Diamond rank doesn't really hold any weight . I've played against people that have no business being a " diamond" player, if you compare it to other games. At the same time I play against top 100 leader board people very often. And if you are a light you might as well give up. A light against very skilled players is like going into a war with a butter knife. Dash is easy to track. You can hear and see invis a mile away. Along as you have half decent aim for 1/4 of a second lights are a non issue. And most of the time even when they stun from behind I win those fights 98% of the time. Not a big enough gap in ttk to be viable per the health pool.
To add. Most lights get carried in rank. Unless you are a God. But even then. Like ottr said. Put money on it and no one will run the light
The Finals need to sort their microphone issue. It never works. Fix that first and then go after balancing
You said a lot of good stuff and hit a lot of good points. I for one saw the other guy’s video first and was vibing with it because I could tell, like you said, it was targeting sweats and quitters who will always blame the equipment instead of thinking, “oh maybe there’s room for self improvement.” I also adore the finals and always have such a good time with it. It’s a fun game and I hope people remember that that’s what it is, a game, and game’s are meant to be fun at the end of the day, and this particular game has only been hilariously fun from the open beta to today (for me). As far as balancing goes, I would agree that the finals is *well* balanced but it is definitely not *perfectly* balanced. As the game gets perfected little by little over time I’m going to be sitting back and enjoying it still and it’s not getting any complaints from me just yet. Maybe I’m also a little bit biased coming from some other PvP experiences that makes the finals balancing look like that one knife teetering on Thanos’s finger
who's trying to nerf throwing knives the legit take more skill than anything else in the game outside of straight melee. They also still lose collision randomly during games so you won't even be able to do damage or break windows a lot of the time
If there are more french fry shorts, I'm definitely watching till the end
With some nuance on the takes of the video, I ultimately agree with RockHoundBlack.
Embark knows what they're doing, let them look at their data, let them cook.
Look at the beretta and tell me embark knows what their doing. Look at nukes and tell me they knew what they were doing. Look at mhh spam in top ranked and tell me they knew what they were doing
@@MrNamenamenamename why does the internet these days ignore nuance?
Yes I can confidently say they know what they’re doing.
Does that mean that I believe they’re perfect? Or even imply it? No.
For example, I’m an artist if I see an experienced fellow artist mess up proportions, I know they will adjust them. Likewise, when Embark launched or pushed updates that skews the meta in a certain way, I know they’ll fix it.
“Nukes” was always part of their vision, sadly for them it didn’t turn out how they’d hope, and fixed them.
Also, we do not know the objective data they see. We don’t know how complaints compare to what their data shows. We don’t know what challenges they face when analyzing the validity of that data (i.e., there’s people who stick to only one play style, what does that mean for the overall balance? What is the ideal balance? Do equally viable weapons mean that this shows in game data as equal use accross the board? Not necessarily, since people will be biased towards more familiar weapons like and use niche weapons sparingly, at least in theory, cause we dont know. Does prevalence of a strategy show imbalance? Possibly, but there are times where people are so stubborn about playing a “meta” that they forget the counters in place for them to begin with)
AGAIN. There is nuance to all the above.
Let’s not pretend like they’re incompetent. You can’t even fathom what it takes.
@julio1148 thank you for having common sense! You're awesome.
Lights only piss me off when I see a sniper at this point
Medium is easily healbeam
Heavy’s have too many shields too much health and also have a remove you from the living realm button with charge
Yeah, sure, light may not be the most meta class right now and may not be suited for top ranked play, but you know what, i still play it for fun. It's fun to jump into power shift and try to go for crazy flanks with throwing knifes or pull off a good triple with the lh1 on the platform. If i feel like getting sweaty in ranked, I'll go with fcar+heal because that's most value. Not every aspect of the game has to be super valuable, some shit can be just fine to have fun with
So you shouldn't be able to use light in ranked just cause? Light shouldn't be dominant but not completely out of the equation.
@@KraanFanFanFanFan the wrong small buff to light, could mean a huge buff to light in casuals. sure, casuals dont matter but dont be surprised if the game has less than 500 concurrent players
@@KraanFanFanFanFan bro, play whatever you like. if i play cs2 and take m249, i dont complain that ak's and m4's are shredding me.
14:05 THE DEVS WANTED NUKES IN THE GAME! I MISS NUKES DESPITE THE FACT I KILLED MYSELF MORE TIMES THAN THE ENEMY SIMPLY BECAUSE ITS FUN AND WACKY
Ah yes the casual below average player experience
8:20, a really good example was literally that clip. He dumped half his mag and missed, yet still got the kill. Maybe the opponent was just worse but who knows.
Sniper missed 50% of his shots. Playing sniper in close range. Not seeking any cover against an LMG. These are the mistakes done by the light player resulting his death. Really good example of poor play.
I believe that to make The Finals more balanced, specific character abilities need to be adjusted. Assuming the goal is to achieve a high rate of HML team compositions, from my experience is that Light classes in Diamond often get eliminated in the first knockout round. This seems to be because the other two classes have more team-focused loadouts.
I'm curious to see the impact of shifting some abilities around. For example, Lights could take on a supportive role with a healing beam, which is crucial for a strong team composition. Mediums could be equipped with the dome shield, and Heavies could receive either the APS or Glitch Grenade. While these changes could have negative effects, the idea is to diversify and provide more options for these classes and see the possible outcomes.
I try so hard to make the light a support. Sniper, tracking dart, glitch, motion sensor... but you have no presence in the close encounters and the sniper take 3+ hits for a kill in the event an enemy steps into your view.
Me and my friends run heavy, medium, light and we have a good amount of success with it. For reference the light player is mid-diamond. The heavy and medium(me) are high plat. Normally we play medium heavy stick together, while our light tries to pick someone who's by themselves off or attack flanks. Or he'll pop in and out of a fight. Playing a light you have to play a different game basically to be successful but when you do the light class can be pretty strong. I do think it's getting nerfed a bit too much and I think us mediums need to be toned down a bit.
I agree with the gist of what you're saying but not the specific recommendations. A light would insta die trying to heal in Ranked for example (staying alive as Medium is already rough). The goal of encouraging more HML has a sub-component to it - not adjusting the core combat capabilities too heavily, as casual gameplay is almost purely combat so will be thrown massively out of whack.
I think making Light a must pick because of super strong team recon and movement utility is the best way to approach this: buff gateway range, buff invis bomb duration of effect, buff glitch duration, give grapple at least one more charge, buff tracking dart in some way (either duration of effect, extra dart in the clip, slow ticking poison damage that prevents heal beam working, etc). These types of changes would leave casual play relatively unaffected but hopefully tilt the risk/reward of playing Light at mid to high ELO further in favour of the class. Being able to tracking dart a whole team so they can't heal and are detected, gateway a vault or team across map, glitch a HHM stack, invis your team for a push, etc are the Lights bread and butter and are already super good; they just need to become better such that an extra Heavy or an extra heal beam is no longer worth while because you lose out on too much utility.
One other idea for Light would be some type of self revive gadget or spec: the playstyle basically requires you to play in unrevivable positions, which can be ultra punishing if you get picked off in Ranked, whereas a heavy that dies on the frontline will just be instantly revived by his Medium, or vice versa the heavy will carry the medium away and slow res.
While I do believe that the combat would be flipped, I think the whole reason why Light isn't meta is due to positioning. I think the risk is far greater than the reward, since you still require to stray away from the team to play picks.
Therefore generally when the Light teammate dies away from the pack, you are immediately put at a disadvantage since you have to consider your teammate's death location. Hence, this kind of off land-ish proposal. It's to encourage teammates to stay and work together with the heavy emphasis on character positioning.
However, you're probably right that the casual player base would be taken out of the loop if something this dramatic were to happen.
It would be interesting to choose between being the healer or being the flanker, since they're both powerful roles.
Can we talk about how the french fry video was just a normal recipe for french fries? You always double-cook them and let them cool in between cookings.
oh wait did he triple fry? that might be something he got there.
That thumbnail is dangerous
I have ONE thing to say "glitch granade" and literally sit and watch as they panic as they now have to actually do the 1v1 using BULLETS...
I have 500 hours in this game. SBMM is completely broken - in any mode tryharders play against me, they destroy me in 0.3 seconds at any distance. I've had days where I've had 15 losses in a row. The better you play - the bigger tryharders it gives you. As a result, I can't do anything at all right now.....
Starting to wonder if I'm the only light who uses glitch grenades at this point.
Shields ain't a problem with em.
Wow pro
I've been playing light throughout my whole experience in the finals but ever since season 2 came I just started playing heavy instead, since I literally win more games when I use heavy because of the deadass loadouts you can make out of it, whenever I play light I just get wrecked by the bullshit rpg one shotting my ass, getting easily grazed by grenade launchers and getting c4ed every time I steal cashouts, so far the only thing that makes my light play good is because of the glitch grenade, and glitch grenade alone, the stun gun was great but it was the recent victim of the nerf, playing light basically means throwing the game
413 ad breaks?? Really??
f they want to balance heavy's against lights.. heavy/mids need slower health regeneration or lights need faster. because u have to do soo much more as a light to kill most builds. heavy's and mids stay close together since their builds compliments each other whilst ights tend to get picked off solo
Ya... lights encourage you to run out solo, yet is guaranteed to lose a 1v1
I play heavy a lot and get left behind a lot, then I get picked off by either a full team or someone who is tank hunting. That part is not fun.
They need to buff light and medium to be in line with heavy. Don’t nerf heavy, buff light and medium. This game has turned into nerfville with the TTK of the division. Nothing feels powerful or good to use anymore.
The whole purpose of lights is movement. You're fast so you need to run circles around the enemy and you need to hit your shots, melee, etc. If you can't win your 1v1s then get good scrub
@@MrMars-sb3yq the problem is heavies stacking, not getting left behind from slow move speed
It feels awful to play light sometimes, but it might just be me
Lol, whenever I get annoying challenges to do I do them with flame heavy. It's broken in most skirmishes. xD
By the way buddy as somebody who got to plat 2 as light EVERYTHING IN THE GAME IS MEANT TO KILL LIGHTS STOP IT
my Hottake, Take Defibrillator from Medium and rocket from Heavy and Give Light Defibrillator and Rocket
i mean, thats all Ultillity that make him more playbel
bruh i main light and get like a 2 k/d ratio. that sounds like a mad skill issue
I don't know, what are you talking about? I'm talking about other players who should play light class more especially in ranked, and not about who has more skills or not
I use to main dagger at the start of season 1 lol. I sucked at it. Sometime i would, however, backstab 3 people in quick succession. I realized that balance was not to be trusted with every player when i heard a sword user teamate tell me that dagger needed a nerf. Really bruh. I even tried nuking as a light. It was terrible. But it was possible. I think the nuke nerf should not have applied to breach charge of all things.
Also I do not 100% agree with the video. But, some people in this community are ridiculous.
Nice vid ottr keep grinding 🔥
Lots of these problems are just the ego's of players. Which you kinda go over, which is nice.
People can stop the tanks and the bunkers and all the other stuff. As an individual, based on their sheer technical skill and reflexes, no. As a team with the right tactics, yes.
Jfc. There are different types of skill and I’m bored with the individualist pro players thinking they’re better than everyone or that all games should cater to their main character syndrome.
Why did Ottr come into this ready to argue with every little point the dude made? Only to have to be like, “oh, ok.” three seconds later. That’s an indication that you’re not regulated.
Honestly I just want inevitable backfill losses to stop counting against my w/l ratio and I'd like the bug fixed that prevents me from my gun and healing beam from working at all.
I mean, it just doesn't make sense heavy having weapons with relatively low TTK when the heavy has the highest TTK.
That thumbnail lol
1 glitch grenade or barrel and all that would be gone lol
I love how you went on a little side quest with French fries mid video
Love how so many of these are skills issues lol but passed that the game feel fine like im having no issues but this is coming from a person who played since beta
12:47 MY BROTHER IN CHIRST YOU ARE THE SOLE TARGET AUDIENCE. Pro players/streamers are the number one hisghest complaining demographic, not to mention they actually have a platform for their voice to be heard.
Ngl you pretending that The Finals is not in fact one of the most tightly balanced sandboxes in FPS at 8:00 made me wanna stop watching instantly. Yea it has some issues here and there but overall its fantastic and pretending otherwise borders on delusional.
I say this as a Light main. Of course the power differential between Light and Heavy exists but I can still get to diamond solo queueing as a Light main on console and I'm just ok mechanically. Most of my skill comes from solid gamesense.
Compared to most modern FPS I've played, I'd kill for the games to feel as balanced as The Finals does and its only gonna get better.
The truth is that for most players the game is really well balanced. Outside of comp/high elo you can run pretty much anything and see success if you're a solid player with solid teamplay. Maybe you won't reach the final round of ranked every single time, maybe once you're in that 3v3 your more off meta playstyle/loadout won't succeed nearly as well. But you can definitely qualify 1-2 rounds and at least feel competitive so long as you're playing solid.
That's more than can be said for most games that don't opt for equal starts!
Fwiw I think his Battlefield comparison was gross. Of course the person in the turret decimating the other team with no counterplay for 5+ minutes will feel good about it and pretending that a guy forcibly having to spawn in with anti-tank rounds and spend 1-2 minutes traversing the outskirts of the map to kill him is NOT a fuckin equivilant exchange by any reasonable definition. I get his point but man that's a fucked comparison.
"You can't say the devs know the game they want to make better cause they took a while to remoce nukes"
Yeah fuck this video dawg that is an aggressively stupid thing to say that ignores so much idek where to start.
so and im here and just say the devs dont know how to read the data what now
Newer player, and not a good one either, but i love your take on Balance over Rock-Paper-Scissors "Balance." Different approaches should just work, not be exact counters, with exact counters everything gets stale once the optimum is figured out, ala like what happened with Overwatch, such is not truly balanced at all if anything just more repetitive and predictable. Both as a player and viewer what keeps FPS fun is surprises and seeing different approaches actually work, not simply figuring out the playbook and playing as close to perfect what the playbook says.
Exactly, the numbers game is a pain and you can't always use it as a fallback when things go wrong, especially for as long as overwatch has been doing it.
bro no offense ottr... you enjoy this game by winning... you're a high elo player. This is the issue with modern gaming. Back when gaming wasn't controlled by shareholders it was about having fun playing the game... I can't take your opinions seriously when you critique a casual player for playing heavy and trying to have fun, Someones opinion isn't based on their skill level or intellect in playing a harder class. Your disses about rockhound only playing heavy and dying as a light show the huge divide in playerbase, you have to respect the playstyles of others without wanting to change the game only to your liking.
Very sensible
@skoodaddle I agree
I think the best way to “balance” the game is to keep separate servers open for plat+ ranked players in casual matches. There’s no reason a casual player hard capped at silver or below should be in a CASUAL match with a sweat who plays 25/8. It makes the game unplayable. Idc if I don’t win or don’t do well, but when there’s a light with 30 Elims and 1 death when the average for the rest of the lobby is 8-8, there’s a major problem. Not even skill based, maybe just goes off average weekly playtime.
Would take the final beta with a buff to light weapon damage and nukes over the current balancing.
I play Bank It almost exclusively but I completely agree, you should balance around the intended competitive experience. Cash Out balance will trickle down to other game modes, it may not be perfect for them but I think that's you're best chance of achieving balance in a game like this.
The ADHD French fry break 😭🤣
Streamers, youtubers, comp grinders isn't the target audience in Rocks vid I believe
It's the casual players who have like an hour to play a week or the weekend warriors.
When we talk about such thing as balance its so fucking important to remember about skill = reward and counterability. Everyone knows sword + good skill = nice weapon. BUT, as soon as we have such thing as flamethrower and SA1216 we have to understand that sword is 85% of time is gettin demolished vs this thing. And SA is btw still meta gun on high elo so.... Sure sword vs meds is so fucking cool, but we have to remember current counters. Go further. SHIELD. 0 chance to kill flamethrower, so fucking 0. This such a niche weapon can hold ok vs most of the guns + medium skill but when it comes against at least 1 flamethrower u cooked. And u cant change a weapon midgame in competitive. I dont think that such a niche and skill required weapon gives not that much output and even get 100% countered by a single heavy gun. If we take 1v1 ofc. Logically, this doesnt seem balanced right now. We have quiet balanced "casual" guns meta, but all these niche stuff is like out of place just cuz it weak fr like beretta or heavily countered by other stuff like shield vs flamethrower. I just hope this thing will come into its place, but for now i cant say The Finals is BALANCED. Its much more than "playable" ofc, but still not perfect and devs have much to think about. Game and devs are so great i just want them to find the right way that just works fine. Fuck those rage commenters.
And yeah this guy in the comment saying -> "creativity is definitely more rewarded in this game"
DUDE WE HAVE OUR SETUPS LOCKED IN RANKED. What creativity do i have? What creativity do we see in high elo? OHOHHO DOUBLE MED PLUS sa12 :))
me and my friends do complain about locked guns and gadgets cuz we have so much creativity in dota2 doing different crazy stuff but i absolutely dont feel same in the finals. I just have 1 setup for each special that works the best. I cant swap it midround. I use shield i see 1 heavy each team, ok, i see 3 flamethrowers and i suck cocks. Just an example. I cant find ENOUGH creativity in this game for now even tho its still fun. ( u have kinda said the same later in the vid)
idk im not telling im smart and never commented my vision or thoughts to devs(but i think id better do it) but so many people rly miss logic and cause-effect relation vision it gets me fill bad :(
I feel like saying that the people who LITERALLY MADE THE GAME. Don’t know what they are doing is a rediculous statement. Just because a creation has an unintentional detail in it doesn’t mean that the person who created it had no plan. Plans can fail even when you think they will succeed.
29:13 bro is so cooked lol
one glitch grenade...
Nah but nukes are goofy and fun I do miss them
This game is FAR from balanced, but I'm not sure that's not what the developer wants.
It’s not that far, they have the balance tight, but are trying to fix up the loose ends. This game isn’t even a year old yet btw.
The way I see it, every kill should be earned.
I understand it that a game is balanced, when all weapons are able to function at their best in their optimal situations.
I understand it that it is also balanced when the gadgets provided all provide different benefits that are all equal in terms of viability.
To say the stun gun is OP is to suggest the kill isnt deserved, because it provides a greater yield then other gadgets.
The issue with that, is the stun gun is a one use, long cooldown, short duration stun. The only targets that can be reliably hit in succession is the heavy, of which has the most health and defensive options.
The point ottr made of the C4 nukes being unfair, is hitting the nail on the head.
Although it was inventive and showed creativity the Embark team was aiming for in the Finals, it doesnt take priority over the effort required to kill.
The ease of use, combined with certain elimination when used competently, makes for warfare that is decided by whoever throws first.
As of now, I think the game sits in a good position, as all weapons are effective in there preferred conditions.
Spear, newely added works best in close quarters and serves a more geurilla warfare weapon that kills in only a few hits.
The bow, hard to use in close quarters, but is excellent in open air with far reach.
Even the new specialization the winche claw, has a long cooldown, works best with close range weapons meaning you must sacrifice your ability to compete in in more open evironments, but in exchange you are able to secure and confirm kills.
Like the original video thats being reacted to states, its up to you to take a weapong and learn it to maximise it potential.
If there was a weapon that worked well in all situations, then it would be the apex, because all it would require to become unstoppable is a player who understands their situation.
This isnt to suggest all require the same effort, Lights will always have the burden to perform more due to less health, and Mediums will have the pressure of being shark chum for the Lights.
The fact of the matter is in the world of warfare, where the Finals takes all these unique weapons and puts them all on the same battlefiled, it will be up to the players to find what works best for them, and how to make it work the best they can in all situations.
There is only so much balancing can do within reason.
Nothing in life is completely balanced so trying to make the finals “perfect” is only going to ruin the game.
Additionally some of these players setups are completely wrong hence why they complain. For the life of me like why are you an inexperienced light using a sword on moving platforms?
While we all play the same game, we're essentially playing different 'games' with various balances. If I am all about one mode, I'm missing out on another. Once you're a pro, you just never be a noob again. And if you factor in things like changes in the player base? The balance has to adapt accordingly, making it flexible, essentially. Hence, endless unsolvable contradictions between the players.
While devs' balance adjustments aim to cover all parts of the game as a whole, no individual player can fully grasp the entire picture, regardless of their skill level or playtime.
Moreover, the impact of balance on game enjoyment is often exaggerated among casual players, and the way it's discussed can distort perceptions of what games should and can be.
eg ottr judges balance from his view, casuals from theirs. ottrs opinion isn't more valuable for game balance. Even if he play x1000 better, if he can't see it from a noob's view, he don't get whole balance. And he cant, cause he isnt noob. And not dev. Only the devs know their goal. All this balance talk without understanding is just annoying empty chatter. Enjoy the game. Yes, it's pretty balanced.
When you mentioned we’re all playing our own “game” I gave a nod, I main the revolver. And that weapon is either mega busted or terrible depending on my aim 😂 I complain about heavy’s because I can’t 1v1 them, and it’s hard getting through their shields. While a cl-40 user or akm user would likely melt heavy’s + their shields. Def makes it REALLY hard to balance. And me saying nerf heavy’s, and heavy’s saying nerf medium (cl-40 / akm) to each their own aren’t wrong per se. We all have our own frustrations, and it’s not a simple fix
But nerf heavy’s >:)
7:56 dawg that was my reaction too 😭😭😭
Man nukes were so broken, the entire game revolved around nukes, there was not a single game where less than 50% of the lobby had a nuke in their hand at any given time. And I remember giving constructive criticism on how to nerf nukes and later suggested to remove them entirely very early in season 0 and I got so many clown emoji reactions. Fucking tiktok brains.
The video and premise that guy had was good, just took too long to get there
the finals at the jump for being a free to play game was well balanced as time goes on and more content gets added they would have to rework the balance more to make it equal again, the finials is a pretty well balance game SO FAR! it does need to improve slightly , now yes alot of people that are cryin it need alot of balance fixing is just bad at the game and thats okay thats THE FUN PART (i guess) is getting better and better and learning and improving to be better than the better players is amazing feeling. im also a rocket league player so i know pain anyways lol
btw the de materializer should of been a LIGHT thing that would balanced it more and let them sneak up on tanks to drain them quickly and plus it would make more players go to light to use it to steal cash outs
sorry commenting while watching but rock paper scissors you dont know what your enemy is going to throw either just like you dont know what guns they have you can see their classes in the start and change to counter them
oh btw people left cause of the cheater and hackers like i did and now were coming back cause they are learning about anti cheat but we coming back slowly as we learn there is less cheaters now
in Ranked, all teams should be forced to consist of each class Medium/Light/Heavy every time! you choose your class beforehand.
I low key agree with this
@@johnsmith12421 thanks man, like casually you don’t have to, but when playing ranked this should be the case, imo. Then there are no excuses, if u suck u suck. People wouldn’t mind waiting a bit longer for matchmaking as long as it’s all nicely balanced.
All the snipers I've lost to would disagree with Light's being deleted. Though I don't play ranked so most of these opinions are probably based on ranked gameplay. To which I'll say that people will always take the bigger health pools because light dies the fastest and people just take the easiest route. I don't think Light is weak, but I only play them for the throwing knives and the dagger, but if I wanna use guns I play Medium because I have some nice AR options and the Model 1887 I love so much. I don't play heavy because I hate moving slow.
Bring back the finals 1.0. ill run back.
This video made me scared... WHY DID YOU TALK ABOUT NUKES (Idk how to add crying emoji)
APS was my defense against nukes 👍🏽
I joined a game where mfs took the cash out into the elevator two aps an walls an sheld an dead ass jus was able to keep it there without ever taking it out to put it in a cash out
Talking about guns and gadgets balance in a game where solo random players are in the same ranked game against 3-stack teams is just ridiculous to me. Who cares if Fcar is 22 or 25 damage when you play with 2 randoms with no mic against a 3-stack who plays this game together every day? Fcar can be 50 damage, and you will still lose 9 out of 10 games against well-coordinated 3-stack teams
I am at low level and i see only lights and mediums rarely heavies. I like playing vs heavies way more than lights, heavies are slow and have big hitbox and no range idk how you can find it annoying. And lights hard counter heavies, what am i supposed to do when i play with hammer and the light has dash. Dash most annoying ability in the game along with turret
At the end of the day everything comes down to where is embark headed with The Finals, if they do want to make it a comp game, u're right they need to balance everything around ranked mode, but with the current state of the game (current players n stuff) if they find out that casuals actually enjoy that sort of unbalanced easy to play gameplay, and people start coming to it after that, they're not gonna prioritize ranked balance.
Thank god i just finally got diamond as a solo que sword player. My day is ruined
Nerf RPG 's damage to players severely , increase his destruction, and give 2 ammo counts to it😊
Nothing is OP if everyone has access to it
Well I've def reach my AlT F4 mode recently. Took me way too long to reach diamond and I got burnt cuz I couldnt take the bs this game was throwing at me anymore. Between ranked game making no sense for various reasons, and the performances issues I've been having the whole season... couldnt take it anymore.
its the headshots and individual impact on teamfights. guns alone do not help individiual impact on soloq