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I made the painful decision to pay $150+ for a knife once. It took a lot of self reassurance to make the decision. Once I did that I suddenly was totally cool with buying several multiple hundred dollar knives within a span of 2 months. Knife collecting is a slippery slope.
I have a few cheap clones, and bought them as a way to know if I like the knife, the blade profile, weight, etc when carrying it every day. In a few cases, I'm so glad I didn't get the real thing. But in the other cases, the clones actually convinced me to get the real thing. I also use the clones to practice my freehand sharpening skills, and to also identify and address knife issues. For example, I've learned to adjust detents and cut ramps, crown spines, add or extend jimping, reprofile blade shapes, fix centering, recountour scales, evaluate mods to see if I like them (like Spyderco skinny mods), practice Ti anodizing, G10 dying, forced patina-ing, etc. Whether your hobby is working on mechanical watches, woodworking, goldsmithing, or welding, it's ALWAYS recommended to start and learn on scrap/broken/cheaper items. Then, as your skills improve, moving into more expensive stuff.
3 good reasons to get a clone. 1. To try a knife out to see if you like the handle shape/size and blade shape/size before dropping hundreds or maybe even thousands on the real thing. As an example the clone of the Grimsmo Norsemen. 2. The real knife is discontinued and thus is only really available on the secondary market at insane price gouging rates such as the Benchmade Anthem. 3. If the knife is illegal to carry in your area and thus not really justifying spending high dollar amounts for something you can't actually carry. For example a clone of the microtech bounty hunter and many other autos or any number of balisongs for that matter.
Or because some greedy Americans charge $500 for a knife they made for $200. Like the fat headed man that says we're we're colluding with the Enemy if we buy Chinese knives. I can't remember his name but he makes those boat anchors that are like 3 inches long and a half inch thick, the dumbest looking knives and he charges $500 for them ugly bastards.
It isn't bad to discuss clones and counterfeit knives. I think it is good to educate people they exist and have been part of several discussions pointing out the little differences to help people see their potential purchase is a counterfeit. Knowing they are very good and what to look for can help preserve the integrity of our community.
Stealing someone's intellectual property isn't something that is a free market principle. It's objectively theft. The people that do it gamble that they can get away with it because they're located in a different country from the maker. You're 100% right.
Exactly. Free market and open market aren't equivalent terms. An open market is free from taxes and licensing requirements. It has historically been tried and has been disastrous and even led to wars. There is only so much that can be done within the context of 'knife', so there will be similar elements, but it's clear when something is a direct copy.
The grocery store argument is a snob with money argument. You want, and can afford your brand name. I can afford store brands. Is it the same .. No. But it's similar, and affordable. And will actually be used, not kept in a high dollar collection for attention.
I once handled what felt like a very high quality Sebenza clone at a mall kiosk. The guy tried to tell me it was just as good and made from the same materials, but then couldn’t tell me the actual materials. While it did feel great in my hand, I couldn’t help but think “if a knock off feels like this, imagine a real CRK”. Totally put the Sebenza on my radar where it wasn’t before. I eventually I got a 31 and it stemmed for that clone lol.
I work at a major pocket knife manufacturer, and the top sources of counterfeits that customers send to us are as follows: 1. Amazon 2. Gun shows 3. Ebay 4. Ali Express. Amazon sells more counterfeits than gun shows, Ali Epress, and Ebay combined.
I bought a feww clones when I 1st started collecting knives. Gave away most of them for quality higher end knives ultimately. Appreciate the perspective.
Same. I ordered a Combat Troodon clone from Alibaba to try it out and see if I like the premise. I loved it. And a month later I loved the real Combat Troodon even more. If I had not bought that clone, I would have never bought dozens of authentic knives from Microtech, custom Borkas, Hinderer, Winterblade Co, G&G Hawk, Guardian Tactical, Shirogorov, and more. I spent about $20 to later spend $30k, and I would have never bought a single authentic Microtech if I had not first tried it out.
I would imagine people buy clones because they're cheaper. But I feel they do it more because they are sick and tired of them not being available and selling out immediately. And pick them up until the real thing is available.
Well, this assumes that the people wanting these knives are either collectors or just folks that enjoy the occasional high-end knife. Why would they buy the fake just because the real one is hard to get? Wouldn't they want the real deal? I'm sure they would rather get a real one. I would. I want the real knife, and I would wait patiently if it means I have to. For example, there are dozens of clones of the BRS Replicant, but I wanted a real one. I got lucky when I bought one back in 2018 when BHQ randomly had a small batch in stock. I waited for 8 months. It was worth it! Some of the Replicant clones (lol puns) are decent from what I've heard, but they don't compare to the real thing. Obviously.
You can buy clones in the Philippines for $5 to $10 but the blades are just surgical steel don't hold an edge if used. Time to put the junk in a drawer and buy a real knife from amazon.
I love knives, but I have lost interest in high dollar knives. After a certain point, I felt like I was wasting money. It is fun to get something new that does not break the bank. The days, I never go over $200 when I am flush, and I am very happy with knives in the $50-$100 range. The other thing I have lost interest in is the latest super steel because I will never wear my knives from use at the rate I use them. If I can get a super steel at great price, cool, D2, 14c28n, or 154cm are fine by me. I am happy for the people with Shirogorovs and other super expensive knives. I can admire your possessions at a distance.😊
And for those of us also into watches, the clone and counterfeit situation is much worse. MC is absolutely correct about how the clones and counterfeits never truly scratch the itch the way the real ones do.
Dude, I got scammed buying a "really nice" seiko! Got it, the band is trash, the guts are unmarked garbage, everything about it is trash! Still makes me mad lol!
Apparently in a certain country there are laws strictly forbidding the import of knives. Citizens there have, or at least had, no option to ever enjoy an original. The court system there defends against international copyrights by just deciding the exact clones look nothing like the original. Top Gear w/ the three Muppets did a episode on it, showing the original BMW cars next to a 1:1 clones that the court had zero problem with. There also exists an attitude that cloning is 'flattery' that the original designer should be 'proud of.' These individuals believed that the original designers "deserve to be cloned" unless they are willing to sue every company that makes them. Unless their are willing to defend their copyright, "the copyright is completely meaningless."
For me, willingly buying a clone to “fill that gap” is just lying to yourself. Inevitably, there will always be that little reminder in your head that what you have in front of you is not the real thing. It’s more admirable to buy authentic because it shows self-control and discipline. Collecting is not and should not be about feeding urges. Acknowledging that that knife, or any other item for that matter, is outside of your price range is so much better than thinking and pretending that a clone is any fraction of the real thing. Some may disagree, and so be it. Honestly, this way of thinking has helped me to save money, take pride and appreciate what I have, and, altogether, just be honest and real with myself.
Great video, I totally agree with you I would never buy a clone it's not the same as the original and it hurts the knife community I've unsubscribed from channels for reviewing clones . Thanks for the video
I knowingly bought a 20$clone of an Osborn. My reason is I got a bugout, and felt it was mediocre at best, and wasn't a fan of the axis lock. I thought it might be the size of the bugout because it was small for my hands. Then got the 20$ Osborne, way better, but still don't like the axis lock. Love the blade shape, but not a fan of the lock. Then I got the demko Ad20. 5.....now I await a chance of the Ad20 slim. Spend 20 to confirm I don't like the axis lock.
if they sell them as genuine Sebenzas or Shiros - i agree. other than that i think that someone who can't afford a real Bugout buys a very good Lemifshe 535 for 20 bucks doesn't cause any harm to Benchmade but maybe even sparks the interest for the real thing. as you stated correctly the quality of the clones is surprisingly good.
if you know its a fake and resonable priced its ok. Clones got me into knives and some knife models you dont know if you'd like, for example CRKT Ritual if you like the clone you'd like the better quality original. Also a clone you can use and abuse untill it brakes whitout caring. A 1000$ knife will never be used a 100$ clone will be used. The ONLY thing wrong whit a clone is selling it whit the price of an original
I've spent over $3k on single knives before. Never had any interest in firearms. They're just less valuable to me. Neither is universally more valuable. It's just preference.
Similar to what you said, clones don’t scratch the itch. You will ALWAYS have the thought of the real thing in the back of your mind. Support the real thing. You’ll appreciate and enjoy it infinitely more.
I ask you if you can't afford the real thing what's wrong with buying a clone which is a lot cheaper than the original knife what's wrong with it okay it's a free country you can do whatever you want to do you can buy whatever you want to buy okay and who are you to tell anybody what to do and what not to do think about that
About a year ago I found a Medford Praetorian on a local auction site going for $300. That exact model was going for $750 here in Canada at the time. I messaged the seller and asked about it and he would never say it was or wasn’t an actual Medford. Kept saying he got it as a gift and didn’t know. I found another knife reviewers video on spotting clones and he looked at Praetorians specifically. I compared his tips to the photos and it saved me $300. I contacted the seller again and the ad disappeared. Help is out there if you aren’t sure what you are looking at is the real thing.
Completely respect your opinion, glad you went over the difference between counterfeit and Clone... counterfeit = zero tolerance. But with clones I am way more relaxed.
You can thank the counterfeit market and makers for ALL the advancements in OEM knife production in China . Without that initial demand and capital the majority of OEMs in china simply wouldn’t exist today .
You can thank the original designers for creating the market AND the fuel for the fire first. The demand isn't the work of the counterfeit market. That particular market is the RESULT of the demand. A leech needs a host.
@@calebader6695 you assume WAY too much with this comment. They are capitalizing on demand and the unaware/careless general nature of their buying community. It is nowhere near as innocent as you're suggesting. I've seen every corner of the madness and deception it creates on the secondary market. Clones breed absolutely filthy behavior in the community and are in no way redeemable. I will not change my mind.
Totally agree and I think this thought can be applied to almost anything you buy. Case in point I recently bought an actual apc ups eplacement battery and paid about $90. I found many of the exact same model in various sights of the apc brand but half the price. Most comments were; I think was not an apc. The same stickers but not the same battery. Ultimately if the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. I know, this is very different than knives but as I said clones are all over the place. I like to save money but sometimes you get what you pay for.
I understand and agree. To play devils advocate, it is also about knowing how hard you use your knives, and your budget. If you really don't put them to hard use, I'd trust it. It is slimy, but I just can't pay for a real strider or hinderer or CRK. There are a thousand things I need more than an expensive knife. I morally want to buy the real things, but my tastes can't justify spending money on something with basically no real world return other than "ooo shiny new knife". My current job and budget just won't allow me to have a multiple thousand dollar collection, does that mean I can't experience a fraction of the satisfaction for a clone that is more plausible to my budget? I have a $40 d2 emerson karambit clone, its not super polished, but I've been using it for years and saved over 200 bucks. It being not real, makes me actually use the knife harder and to me that's almost more enjoyable. I wouldn't buy a clone for more than 100 though. That being said, my next knife will most likely be a manix 2 or xl. After settling into the community and learning my tastes, I'm setting a hard $200 per grail budget unless I get a big boy job. I'm just not much into the swap community either, I buy knives to keep and use.
I personally wouldn't touch any clone because it might take my finger if the lock fails, or the steel is pot steel trash - but if the original manufacturers are going to overcharge by a ridiculous amount, they can suck it up. People who knowingly buy clones aren't going to buy an original under any circumstance anyway, so nothing is lost. And you, who gets sent all these top dollar knives in the mail every day for nothing has no leg to stand on. You are only looking out for your own interests and keeping that river of knives flowing into your mailbox.
Imho, I don’t care if it’s a counterfeit, clone or original, all that matters is which one is the best. There are some clones that are better than the known brand.
Pesonally i own 2 clones (most of my knives are ether böker plus collabs or customs nothing high end tough) the 2 i own is 1,a serge panchenko bean (it has a blade serge never made and is low quality) and a Reeve mnandi (its literally gastation level) now my reasoning : Bought then years ago because 1, i did not have enough money and 2, before buying a real one i wanna see if i actually do like it ( the mnandi actually is something that i ended up not likeing because of the handle shape) tldr i feel like its a good way to test if you really do like that custom knife before dropping a grand lol
I've bought two clones second hand a Bugout, and a Crooked River. I didn't know until I received them in the mail. Now I'm out of my money, so I stopped buying second hand. I only use Blade HQ, or a reputable dealer.
I agree with Every single thing you say here! I bought the zt 0562 ti...then I bought an xm-18...and the zt has never been in my pocket! You just can't compare the two!
@Metal_Complex, thank you. There is a difference between mimicking someone , and passing their intellectual property off as your own work. This issue affects hundreds of industries, and costs manufacturers billions of dollars in lost sales and legal fees. Counterfeiters hurt people with innovative ideas, and the best way to protect people like Brian Winters is to "save up and keep it real". Thanks for raising the awareness on this issue.
I must say as someone who has been into knives for maybe the last 6 months or so, when I first started, I was certainly tempted and I will admit I bought a fake spiderco off Amazon and soon returned it and ordered the og one and have been taking your stance ever since I saw an older video of your talking about this topic as well.
I have bought one counterfeit knife over the years I have been collecting knives. I halfway knew it was but bought it anyway. It was at a shop at a flea market and I thought either I will get the deal of a lifetime, or it is a fake. It was only $25.00 so I took a chance! Alas, it was a fake! I am glad you point out the definition of a clone. A lot of people call knives and multitools that are NOT clones, clones. A clone is an exact copy. I have many knives and multitools that people called clones and they are not. You can tell which tool they were inspired by however! I have no problem with these. People always blame the Chinese for doing this, but American companies did the same thing. Take the iconic Buck 110. I have many American made knives that are heavily inspired by that knife that were made here in the USA by Case, Schrade, Bear and Son, Parker, and a few others. You can easily tell what they are trying to imitate, but they are not clones!
A lot of these arguments can also be applied to waiting for the exact version of a knife you want. Sometimes it does help to buy the less expensive one to find out what you really like, but if you get to a point where you know you would like the full Ti better than the g10 version, wait and get the full Ti. Otherwise, in the long run, you will probably end up with both.
Hey MC thx great video that can stir up a good discussion about knife community. I do have a question though during a the video you mentioned Cobra tech and Raven Crest and you won't talk about them . Why is that?
I bought a ZT888, but also bought a clone of the ZT888; the real one is in the case, the clone is for EDC. I’d rather the clone get fucked up in daily use. It’s held up for about a decade now. That’s the only clone I own and have owned. If I were to buy a clone again, I’d only do it if I also bought the original. Just my 2 cents
Eventually you'll cave and get something real. When you do, the realization of all the money you spent on the clones will ring in your head along with the sound of my voice - "I told you" ✌️
@@metal_complex haha I have also definitely done that 🤣. I love knives and have spent thousands. In large part thanks to you! Love your content man. Thank you! Also, now I feel guilty. Didn't think I'd get a reply from the man himself!
I'm a big fan of clones. The quality is getting better all the time. Full price name brand knives are too expensive to use, so they sit in my collection while my clones serve the functional tasks in my edc.
Good for you MC. Clones are the physical embodiment of dastardly deeds. Now that you pulled the curtain down you’ve become Clone enemy #1. A disturber of the peace. A rabble rouser. The Clone Wars have begun…queue the music.
The only way I would buy a rep is if it's better or equal quality to the original at a lower cost. I don't think that will happen with knives. It has happened with Jordan sneakers though.
I do hate clones, although I'd love if bigger brands would do what Spyderco does with their Byrd knives and make cheaper material versions of the bigger knives so people can buy cheaper versions of the better ones without spending $200+
I lost a gifted customized Buck pocket knife; so I researched and bought a Kizer as a replacement. Now I own 3 Kizer’s, a Civivi, and more.. .I’ll always support and buy originals
Instant gratification is defined as the the temptation, and resulting tendency, to forego a future benefit in order to obtain a less rewarding but more immediate benefit. Some people just can’t be bothered putting in the work or effort to obtain the real thing.
I'm okay with clones and sometimes even counterfeits so long as the buyer knows it's not the real thing. Bought a counterfeit microtech for myself knowing it was a counterfeit mainly because I just want a cheap knife to abuse at work because I like how it looks and feels and I'm not buying a microtech to abuse at work. I just look at it as a cool looking gas station knife. If I break it I don't care.
I got a infidel fixed that was very close and it shook my confidence. I nearly stopped collecting. I got a refund but cloning damages all the people that play by the rules as you stated in the video. In some ways the go for your end item is absolutely valid even in the context of legit manufactures as well. I agree wholeheartedly with that and saving towards it will save a person tons of money and time in the long run. Great tkg episode.
I’ve made clone knives for myself. I have been commissioned for a few. The reason being, I can provide custom materials and any blade shape grind and edge in any steel. I don’t advertise. I have made some great things though and I will do more. I’ve made knives from my own designs as well. It’s just a preference thing. I have many legit knives and I’ve spent a ton and will continue to, but I do like the fact I can customize the designs of others.
I have a couple clones and some real blades. Got a couple clones not realizing they were clones - just liked the design. I have a bunch of Spydercos (I live 40 mine from their Golden HQ and hit the clearance sales), and clones as well, for beaters. I understand the whole intellectual property POV, but sometimes my wallet rules (for something I will abuse and won't take care of). Enjoy your posts.
I was new to knife collecting and bought a bugout on ebay. Did research on it before the seller even shipped it and could tell from the pics that it wasnt right. Sent pics to benchmade who confirmed it wasnt right. Thankfully the seller was a good person and didnt realize he was selling a clone and refunded my money and pulled the listing.
Quite happy that you discussed this... as I was informed by another RUclipsr that there are SOG multitools and a select few of their knives on Aliexpress at outrageously low prices. I wrote SOG but didn't get a response. Are they cutting SOG's distribution out or are they clones?
When they recreate Pineapple Express in This is the End using toys, that’s what buying a clone is like. No substitution for the real thing. Great video MC.
I just don't trust people enough to buy secondary market and I only buy from reputable knife companies. I don't sell either. If I bought it, I bought it for a reason. If I no longer own a knife is only when I gift one away.
I bought an ef225. A total clone. At the time I had no idea. Do I want a real Strider? Oh yes. But i do like my clone. So to your point. Yes I was fooled. However I have no regrets. To me I don't give a s*** what you make if you put a D2 blade on it it shouldn't be getting any more than $200
I’ve been a long standing Benchmade fan but I’ve recently decided to start buying clones. I’m sick and tired of these knife companies blatantly scalping prices and making it impossible for the people who would actually use their products. Yes it’s scummy but so is what they’re doing. I also don’t need diamond infused vibranium because I actually use what I buy. D2 will easily get more sharp than I need, and good clone companies nowadays are starting to use m390 for a few more bones. Eat my ass Benchmade at least microtech offers military discounts. I’ll spend $200 on a knife I’ll never have to replace but y’all are smoking crack with prices like the crooked River, shootout, etc.
I’d like to order myself a very specific Microtech from an authorized dealer but I live in NY. I have a Protech/Strider SNG operator but I had to get it second hand. I guess I can understand both sides of the argument. I love knives. All different kinds. I can see why someone would be inclined to buy clones.
The only clone I have is a fake microtech bounty hunter. The real one is 700$ and you pay an extra 300 dollars just to have a fancy paint job. I just wanted it for the look. It was 30$ and better quality than expected.
Saved for a while with money being tight. Really like the Benchmade bailout. Went to a knife show and got a "deal"because the action wasn't 100% perfect. I sent it in to have it corrected and it got confiscated by Benchmade. Out my knife and the money. Time to save again if I can to get another. Learned my lesson.
I own some clones and counterfeits. First, there are different grades of counterfeits--some good and some horrible. You need to know who you're buying from, just like "real" knives. Same with "clones". I own a Vespa that is a clone of a $2,400.00 Microtech and it is an excellent knife, which comes with extra springs, screws, the tool to open the knife, a silk cloth and bag. I say it's a clone because it says Vespa on it and not Microtech, but it sure looks like the $2400 Microtech, or Marifone Custom. It is illegal to produce a counterfeit and our government tries to not let them in the Country, but of course they can't catch them all. Kinda sucks because they still make it on to Ebay as a "real" knife, which is against Ebay policy. Edit-I paid $160.00 for the clone. I'm 100% sure the Microtech is better. but $2240 better?? Not too sure about that.
$1000 knife compared to a 40 dollar clone that is useable . I think the clown is the guy paying 1000 for a knife that does nothing more than cut and NEVER ACTUALLY CUT ANYTHING , you think like a high end collector the only value you have for your collection is other die hard Knife collectors who will buy them if no one cared your 1000 knife is worth nothing but a paperweight in plastic just like any collectible out there , it's all good i get it but the collectors of expensive knives are a bit much, just you saying you will aggressively over pay to get real things is a moronic statement and only empowers companies that overcharge for no reason but to feed your ego. its getting to a point where the quality isn't that much different but the price tags are up there only for the purpose of having a high price tag .its very similar to designer clothes you can pay big bucks from a label on quality clothes that are really outsourced and made in china or just get the non labeled cloth that are essentially the same for reasonable prices . overpricing to seem more valuable is a marketing strategy to appeal to bigger wallets and to seem exclusive. there are plenty of more people that just want a cool knife or a cheap user. some of these knife companies for example Protech is a cheap knife company in disguise as a quality knife company overcharging for a 154CM knife that is easily cloned with the same materials and design. why spend 300 when you can buy it for 40. their prices should be lower for what they offer in such a basic design.
How do you feel about Ganzos? They don't advertise as anything of a Ganzo knife. Back around 2016, before the axis look patent opened up, I bought a ganzo with a Spiderco style blade, Rat 1 body, and a crossbar lock in 440c. I feel like that is a valid knife, sleezy to wholesale copy, but valid. It took 3 different elements from 3 different knives and made a n ew one. Granted, the quality was that of a 20 dollar knife, but they only charged 20.
Respectfully some of these clones are made in the same factory or from the parts of that factory. So to say the quality isn't anywhere close is far from accurate
Was in the knife shop and handled the Chris Reeves Sebenza 31. The matte finish on the titanium was underwhelming. The action of the legendary pivot system and bank vault lockup are largely exaggerated. I was very unimpressed. There is no scenario that exists where a knife is worth $500+. An HK P2000 will cost you $750. The engineering and machining to make a great firearm is on a whole other level than making blades. The market sets the price and the market says you are paying too much if you are paying more than $300 on any single knife. Power to you if you like spending your money on titanium folders. It's a tool and it cuts things. Many, many knives will get that job done just fine. You do not need a Hinderer, both literally and figuratively. Thanks for the work you do with these videos. They are informative. Clones are bad in every industry. Clones should not be supported.
They have made a couple shiro clones with the logo and they were damn near impossible to identify unless it's in hand, and you can look through it. The f95t was a very good clone. The action is amazing. I would say it's on par with a 200-300$ knife... it's not the same. Been arguing with people. I showed my real shiro, explained you can't get the same edge alone on a clone. The blade alone is not as good. However.... shiro f95t is not worth the prices. Shiro is priced far higher than they're quality reaches over other small batch midtechs.
Only clone i have is F95. Not with logo, openly clone. Surely not as good as original but better than any Benchmade I've ever handled. Still bugs me bit to carry it though..
@Ouvert yep. I had a couple shiro clones. I played with them too. Really I got them to beat the shit out of. I would never take my shiro to work and get it covered in powder metal, oil, grease, rust prevention oils etc. Recently I seen a cool knife and picked it up, was showing it off thought it was cool... here someone tells me I got a clone of a Pena x lannys clip. It upset me a bit. So now I'm tracking down a ti jigged lannys clip.
I'm all for companies turning a 180. It's healthy and should be encouraged. Better for the community. The problem is we don't know who is still doing the "dirty work"
First off great video on a touchy topic I am in the same boat as you I do not like clones never have never will competitions fine in business, but not when you’re falsely representing your product is something you know it’s not!!! I honestly feel like the Microtech OTF is the most clones knife out there considering how many companies there are did so strictly make budget Microtech OTF look-alikes which is gray area since they have different brand on them and completely different logo if one, so it’s ok. But support the company that was the original designer of the design u like!
I'm going to be real honest here, and the following isn'texactly right but im coming with full honesty. If I like your knife, but I don't like you, your business practices, or the company's litigious nature, I'm not opposed to buying a clone of their knife. That is the very specific and only instance where I will buy a clone. To very purposefully not support that maker. Granted, I have not actually bought a clone, but there is one or two very specific knives from 2 very specific makers that i've shopped around for their clone. In that case I hold both parties (original and clone maker) slimy as hell and I don't mind buying exactly the design I want for less money. Is this actually right? (ethically?) No, and it's pretty petty also, but in such a specific case it's just as petty as the original maker.
I fell into the clone area when I first started, and I have over 100+ Benchmade, Microtech, ZT, Chris Reeve, and Hinderer clones. I 100% regret every single one and now I only buy authentics and never support the IP theft of clones. Using exact models and company logos on products is just wrong, and I learned that the hard way. I will say, clones are unfortunately getting better, and harder to tell that they are clones/fakes. Sometimes I have to hold it and flip it myself to tell.
Hey MC this video was awesome let the haters hate I watch your channel so I can see the knife out of my price range an I did buy a qsp penguin after I see the video you had about that knife an I love it use it every day an your right it a great knife thank for your information about knifes
I almost pulled the trigger on a Zero Tolerance 0562 on ebay...then i noticed it didnt even have the ZT stamping on the blade..it looked so good but i had to turn it down..gotta have the real thing!
The best thing about buying left handed models offered by legitimate knife companies is that I know that are 100% legit. Why? Because the Chinese never clone lefty knives. You can buy or sell a lefty model and be assured it is the real deal. Finally, a knife advantage for lefties! 😉
The way I see it: 1. Buy the original: Congratulations. You get the right stuff and you can afford it. 2. Buy a collaboration, ZT or the CRKT Mah-Hawk: No problem at all. Legit and really good for a lower budget. 3. Buy a copy, a knife that looks very much like another one but without the logo and with variations in design (different thumb hole etc.): Not illegal, but morally questionable. 4. Buy a counterfeit: Problematic and illegal (if you try to sell one here in Germany, you will be prosecuted).
I would be very surprised if there wasn’t some connection between some of the factories making original Chinese designs and those making Chinese counterfeits. Like it would be very strange if there were two completely separate parallel industries for legit Chinese knives and Chinese clones/counterfeits. I’m sure there must be some crossover right? Who knows tho I bought a Ganzo Delica clone because I couldn’t see what was so good about an FRN backlock to pay Spyderco’s price for it. Once I got the Ganzo it gave me some insight into the design and I knew I had to get the real thing! I got it and I love it. Can sorta be a try before you buy sorta thing. The clone is definitely never gonna scratch the same itch as the real thing tho
About the axis lock situation, wasn't Hogue making basic one to one clones of Benchmade's Ritter varients of the griptilian? Or did they get special permission to remake that knife? I've always wondered.
I will never forget about 4 years ago I got a MT Stitch from my father-in-law and man was I over the moon. About 2 weeks later a buddy of mine went and bought a clone from somewhere and it was darn close to a real Stitch and I argued with him for about 45mins about how I feel that just makes me feel dirty is the only way I was able to describe it to him. So I took mine and my buddies and rushed out into the yard and asked my wife which one was the real one thinking that she could easily pick out the real thing since it feels different. Yup, you guessed it she picked the close saying that it just "feels" more like a quality knife. I died inside that day.
I picked up some clones when I first started getting into knives. At the time, I thought of it as "try it before you buy it", but it was severely misguided. I've since bought authentic knives for the clones I had, and used the clones to practice sharpening on before throwing them away. I made a mistake in the beginning, but will never buy another clone. There's respect and pride collecting authentic knives. I scored a Yeager M KnifeJoy exclusive last year, and it's one of my top Grail knives. The clone wars are over in my house.
You should have a good think about things, mate. Chinese companies only have to follow Chinese laws. Copyright laws are different in different countries. Many OEMs actually have the right to produce a percentage of the output for themselves and/or after a certain established period of time. The knives sold on AliExpress are sold as clones/copies. They don't hide that fact. The con industry exist in every facet of life art, watches, jewellery, computers. Human greed is what it is and people get taken for a ride. If Americans abuse the cheap labour in underdeveloped countries just to boost profits, they deserve everything they get. That being said most my knives are original but I don't have a "holier than thou" attitude towards other people's behaviour.
I would argue this all day. I have bought real and clones, some easy to tell the difference some are real good fakes. And I know the steel is not the same as the real thing or the handle material is not the same or the fot amd finish isn't The most expensive knife I own is $350, and that was a stretch for me for something that gets used and, at the end of the day, is a tool. I feel as long as people are not trying to sell them off as the real things to people that don't know any better, I say go for it.
Before I knew about fakes I bought a cheap "benchmade" from Ebay and tried to sell it. One of the potential buyers messaged me and said "I know it's fake but I still want it, will you take $70 for it?" Needless to say I took it down and returned it and reported the seller.
I posted a tiktok wondering if Cloners specifically go out of there way to clone Medfords, as they're clearly at war with him. but then i even stumbled across listings for knock off EMPEDC Nymbles. 1.) the pics were clearly terrible mockups wherein the lockbar relief was present but the lockbar itself wasn't actually cut out. Im still bemused by who'm they're targeting with these knock offs. Funnily enough though, the Medford clones were all like 10$ or 20$ and the Nymbles were listed at 86$ 🤔 i own three Nymbles so it grabbed my attention. EDIT; I'm coming from the vape industry wherein cloning was a literally DANGEROUS problem back in the day, so I'm in no way shape, or form accepting of any excuses.
2:03 what the hell was that? Well I buy name-brand and I buy clones, it's my money I'll spend it wherever the hell I want! I'm not going to spend $700 from Medford! Lol and on my channel I shall both I show clone sometimes and I show the real thing and I've also showed them in comparison, but I'll buy what I want to buy!
I look at it like this: A genuine Casio is more impressive to people who understand horology than a fake Rolex. And there are many genuine watches that have a lot of the design language of the Rolex which do something original which are interesting, affordable and a viable alternative you can afford. Knives are very similar. You can be an absolute knife snob and never spend more than 30 USD on a knife. It's about understanding WHY it's good.
In my country is alegal to carry a foldind knife but if a officer check you and you got one on you, you get 300€ at minimum and the knife disappear. Another reasoy I buy clones is because I love some designs but I can't afford to lose a 250€+300€, instead I bought a clone for 25€ and I they take from me I don't go broke (im actually broke so 🗿)
There is nothing wrong with someone saying: "I like this knife, and I can make one just like it or better." Having said that, I wouldn't approve a counterfeit.
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"if you're paying $250 for a knife, it's not going to be your last knife." Truth!
I made the painful decision to pay $150+ for a knife once. It took a lot of self reassurance to make the decision. Once I did that I suddenly was totally cool with buying several multiple hundred dollar knives within a span of 2 months. Knife collecting is a slippery slope.
I can attest to this as well…. One knife at 275 and now I’m looking in the 400 range.
I told myself I would never pay $425 for a Hinderer and then I literally proceeded to buy 40 over the course of 10 years 🥲
@@metal_complex ❤
@@metal_complex if I didn’t look up to that so much I’d tell you to hit up a 12 step meeting somewhere hahaha
I have a few cheap clones, and bought them as a way to know if I like the knife, the blade profile, weight, etc when carrying it every day. In a few cases, I'm so glad I didn't get the real thing. But in the other cases, the clones actually convinced me to get the real thing.
I also use the clones to practice my freehand sharpening skills, and to also identify and address knife issues. For example, I've learned to adjust detents and cut ramps, crown spines, add or extend jimping, reprofile blade shapes, fix centering, recountour scales, evaluate mods to see if I like them (like Spyderco skinny mods), practice Ti anodizing, G10 dying, forced patina-ing, etc.
Whether your hobby is working on mechanical watches, woodworking, goldsmithing, or welding, it's ALWAYS recommended to start and learn on scrap/broken/cheaper items. Then, as your skills improve, moving into more expensive stuff.
3 good reasons to get a clone.
1. To try a knife out to see if you like the handle shape/size and blade shape/size before dropping hundreds or maybe even thousands on the real thing. As an example the clone of the Grimsmo Norsemen.
2. The real knife is discontinued and thus is only really available on the secondary market at insane price gouging rates such as the Benchmade Anthem.
3. If the knife is illegal to carry in your area and thus not really justifying spending high dollar amounts for something you can't actually carry. For example a clone of the microtech bounty hunter and many other autos or any number of balisongs for that matter.
Or because some greedy Americans charge $500 for a knife they made for $200. Like the fat headed man that says we're we're colluding with the Enemy if we buy Chinese knives. I can't remember his name but he makes those boat anchors that are like 3 inches long and a half inch thick, the dumbest looking knives and he charges $500 for them ugly bastards.
It isn't bad to discuss clones and counterfeit knives. I think it is good to educate people they exist and have been part of several discussions pointing out the little differences to help people see their potential purchase is a counterfeit. Knowing they are very good and what to look for can help preserve the integrity of our community.
Agreed
Stealing someone's intellectual property isn't something that is a free market principle. It's objectively theft. The people that do it gamble that they can get away with it because they're located in a different country from the maker. You're 100% right.
Exactly. Free market and open market aren't equivalent terms. An open market is free from taxes and licensing requirements. It has historically been tried and has been disastrous and even led to wars. There is only so much that can be done within the context of 'knife', so there will be similar elements, but it's clear when something is a direct copy.
Well said you two very well said. Hopefully your year is off to a cracking start and it continues that way 👍
Boooooooo Caleb. Enjoy your clones.
The grocery store argument is a snob with money argument. You want, and can afford your brand name. I can afford store brands. Is it the same .. No. But it's similar, and affordable. And will actually be used, not kept in a high dollar collection for attention.
Be disciplined and save money instead of wasting double the cost of the original on multiple clones.
Trash argument. Dismissed.
@@metal_complex - easy to dismiss when you have a grocery store argument.
@@thomas3crows487 oof. Bud you have all the time in the world for a rebuttal. Give it another go.
@@metal_complex - there's no need when it's a grocery store argument.
I'll take the W
I once handled what felt like a very high quality Sebenza clone at a mall kiosk. The guy tried to tell me it was just as good and made from the same materials, but then couldn’t tell me the actual materials.
While it did feel great in my hand, I couldn’t help but think “if a knock off feels like this, imagine a real CRK”. Totally put the Sebenza on my radar where it wasn’t before. I eventually I got a 31 and it stemmed for that clone lol.
Was the quality that much better?
I'd imagine the clone would be 90% of the real deal
Some clones are even better than the real thing.
I work at a major pocket knife manufacturer, and the top sources of counterfeits that customers send to us are as follows: 1. Amazon 2. Gun shows 3. Ebay 4. Ali Express. Amazon sells more counterfeits than gun shows, Ali Epress, and Ebay combined.
I haven’t bought a knife on Amazon in years but thanks for that information 👍
I bought a feww clones when I 1st started collecting knives. Gave away most of them for quality higher end knives ultimately. Appreciate the perspective.
Same. I ordered a Combat Troodon clone from Alibaba to try it out and see if I like the premise. I loved it. And a month later I loved the real Combat Troodon even more. If I had not bought that clone, I would have never bought dozens of authentic knives from Microtech, custom Borkas, Hinderer, Winterblade Co, G&G Hawk, Guardian Tactical, Shirogorov, and more. I spent about $20 to later spend $30k, and I would have never bought a single authentic Microtech if I had not first tried it out.
@@southernbenz2098 Absolutely! 100%
I'm new to the knife market . Your advice is well recieved. Thanks for setting me straight on my futre knife purchases.
I would imagine people buy clones because they're cheaper. But I feel they do it more because they are sick and tired of them not being available and selling out immediately. And pick them up until the real thing is available.
Well, this assumes that the people wanting these knives are either collectors or just folks that enjoy the occasional high-end knife.
Why would they buy the fake just because the real one is hard to get? Wouldn't they want the real deal? I'm sure they would rather get a real one.
I would. I want the real knife, and I would wait patiently if it means I have to. For example, there are dozens of clones of the BRS Replicant, but I wanted a real one.
I got lucky when I bought one back in 2018 when BHQ randomly had a small batch in stock. I waited for 8 months. It was worth it!
Some of the Replicant clones (lol puns) are decent from what I've heard, but they don't compare to the real thing. Obviously.
Instant gratification is a disease
You can buy clones in the Philippines for $5 to $10 but the blades are just surgical steel don't hold an edge if used. Time to put the junk in a drawer and buy a real knife from amazon.
@@f4t4lity0r4 yup
I love knives, but I have lost interest in high dollar knives. After a certain point, I felt like I was wasting money. It is fun to get something new that does not break the bank. The days, I never go over $200 when I am flush, and I am very happy with knives in the $50-$100 range. The other thing I have lost interest in is the latest super steel because I will never wear my knives from use at the rate I use them. If I can get a super steel at great price, cool, D2, 14c28n, or 154cm are fine by me.
I am happy for the people with Shirogorovs and other super expensive knives. I can admire your possessions at a distance.😊
And for those of us also into watches, the clone and counterfeit situation is much worse. MC is absolutely correct about how the clones and counterfeits never truly scratch the itch the way the real ones do.
Oh so very true
Dude, I got scammed buying a "really nice" seiko! Got it, the band is trash, the guts are unmarked garbage, everything about it is trash! Still makes me mad lol!
The sad things is that some of the watch fakes are so good that it really does make buying used a minefield.
Apparently in a certain country there are laws strictly forbidding the import of knives. Citizens there have, or at least had, no option to ever enjoy an original. The court system there defends against international copyrights by just deciding the exact clones look nothing like the original. Top Gear w/ the three Muppets did a episode on it, showing the original BMW cars next to a 1:1 clones that the court had zero problem with.
There also exists an attitude that cloning is 'flattery' that the original designer should be 'proud of.' These individuals believed that the original designers "deserve to be cloned" unless they are willing to sue every company that makes them. Unless their are willing to defend their copyright, "the copyright is completely meaningless."
Yuck. That's outrageous
For me, willingly buying a clone to “fill that gap” is just lying to yourself. Inevitably, there will always be that little reminder in your head that what you have in front of you is not the real thing. It’s more admirable to buy authentic because it shows self-control and discipline. Collecting is not and should not be about feeding urges. Acknowledging that that knife, or any other item for that matter, is outside of your price range is so much better than thinking and pretending that a clone is any fraction of the real thing. Some may disagree, and so be it. Honestly, this way of thinking has helped me to save money, take pride and appreciate what I have, and, altogether, just be honest and real with myself.
Great video, I totally agree with you I would never buy a clone it's not the same as the original and it hurts the knife community I've unsubscribed from channels for reviewing clones . Thanks for the video
I knowingly bought a 20$clone of an Osborn. My reason is I got a bugout, and felt it was mediocre at best, and wasn't a fan of the axis lock. I thought it might be the size of the bugout because it was small for my hands. Then got the 20$ Osborne, way better, but still don't like the axis lock. Love the blade shape, but not a fan of the lock.
Then I got the demko Ad20. 5.....now I await a chance of the Ad20 slim. Spend 20 to confirm I don't like the axis lock.
I’ve dealt with the clone situation in the watch world a lot, I personally haven’t come across the knife clones. Thanks for the heads up!
if they sell them as genuine Sebenzas or Shiros - i agree. other than that i think that someone who can't afford a real Bugout buys a very good Lemifshe 535 for 20 bucks doesn't cause any harm to Benchmade but maybe even sparks the interest for the real thing. as you stated correctly the quality of the clones is surprisingly good.
A youtuber that has integrity!! Subscribed
if you know its a fake and resonable priced its ok. Clones got me into knives and some knife models you dont know if you'd like, for example CRKT Ritual if you like the clone you'd like the better quality original. Also a clone you can use and abuse untill it brakes whitout caring. A 1000$ knife will never be used a 100$ clone will be used. The ONLY thing wrong whit a clone is selling it whit the price of an original
Agree to disagree
Between buying a 300 knife or a firearm I'm definitely buying the firearm
I've spent over $3k on single knives before. Never had any interest in firearms. They're just less valuable to me. Neither is universally more valuable. It's just preference.
Similar to what you said, clones don’t scratch the itch. You will ALWAYS have the thought of the real thing in the back of your mind. Support the real thing. You’ll appreciate and enjoy it infinitely more.
I ask you if you can't afford the real thing what's wrong with buying a clone which is a lot cheaper than the original knife what's wrong with it okay it's a free country you can do whatever you want to do you can buy whatever you want to buy okay and who are you to tell anybody what to do and what not to do think about that
About a year ago I found a Medford Praetorian on a local auction site going for $300. That exact model was going for $750 here in Canada at the time. I messaged the seller and asked about it and he would never say it was or wasn’t an actual Medford. Kept saying he got it as a gift and didn’t know. I found another knife reviewers video on spotting clones and he looked at Praetorians specifically. I compared his tips to the photos and it saved me $300. I contacted the seller again and the ad disappeared. Help is out there if you aren’t sure what you are looking at is the real thing.
Completely respect your opinion, glad you went over the difference between counterfeit and Clone... counterfeit = zero tolerance. But with clones I am way more relaxed.
You can thank the counterfeit market and makers for ALL the advancements in OEM knife production in China . Without that initial demand and capital the majority of OEMs in china simply wouldn’t exist today .
You can thank the original designers for creating the market AND the fuel for the fire first. The demand isn't the work of the counterfeit market. That particular market is the RESULT of the demand. A leech needs a host.
@@calebader6695 you assume WAY too much with this comment. They are capitalizing on demand and the unaware/careless general nature of their buying community. It is nowhere near as innocent as you're suggesting. I've seen every corner of the madness and deception it creates on the secondary market.
Clones breed absolutely filthy behavior in the community and are in no way redeemable. I will not change my mind.
Totally agree and I think this thought can be applied to almost anything you buy. Case in point I recently bought an actual apc ups eplacement battery and paid about $90. I found many of the exact same model in various sights of the apc brand but half the price. Most comments were; I think was not an apc. The same stickers but not the same battery. Ultimately if the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. I know, this is very different than knives but as I said clones are all over the place. I like to save money but sometimes you get what you pay for.
I can't stop thinking about that Yojimbo 2 in Cru wear that's coming out soon. I think I'm going to get one if I can.
I understand and agree. To play devils advocate, it is also about knowing how hard you use your knives, and your budget. If you really don't put them to hard use, I'd trust it. It is slimy, but I just can't pay for a real strider or hinderer or CRK. There are a thousand things I need more than an expensive knife. I morally want to buy the real things, but my tastes can't justify spending money on something with basically no real world return other than "ooo shiny new knife". My current job and budget just won't allow me to have a multiple thousand dollar collection, does that mean I can't experience a fraction of the satisfaction for a clone that is more plausible to my budget? I have a $40 d2 emerson karambit clone, its not super polished, but I've been using it for years and saved over 200 bucks. It being not real, makes me actually use the knife harder and to me that's almost more enjoyable. I wouldn't buy a clone for more than 100 though. That being said, my next knife will most likely be a manix 2 or xl. After settling into the community and learning my tastes, I'm setting a hard $200 per grail budget unless I get a big boy job. I'm just not much into the swap community either, I buy knives to keep and use.
I personally wouldn't touch any clone because it might take my finger if the lock fails, or the steel is pot steel trash - but if the original manufacturers are going to overcharge by a ridiculous amount, they can suck it up. People who knowingly buy clones aren't going to buy an original under any circumstance anyway, so nothing is lost.
And you, who gets sent all these top dollar knives in the mail every day for nothing has no leg to stand on. You are only looking out for your own interests and keeping that river of knives flowing into your mailbox.
Imho, I don’t care if it’s a counterfeit, clone or original, all that matters is which one is the best. There are some clones that are better than the known brand.
Pesonally i own 2 clones (most of my knives are ether böker plus collabs or customs nothing high end tough) the 2 i own is 1,a serge panchenko bean (it has a blade serge never made and is low quality) and a Reeve mnandi (its literally gastation level) now my reasoning :
Bought then years ago because 1, i did not have enough money and 2, before buying a real one i wanna see if i actually do like it ( the mnandi actually is something that i ended up not likeing because of the handle shape) tldr i feel like its a good way to test if you really do like that custom knife before dropping a grand lol
I've bought two clones second hand a Bugout, and a Crooked River. I didn't know until I received them in the mail. Now I'm out of my money, so I stopped buying second hand. I only use Blade HQ, or a reputable dealer.
I agree with Every single thing you say here! I bought the zt 0562 ti...then I bought an xm-18...and the zt has never been in my pocket! You just can't compare the two!
@Metal_Complex, thank you. There is a difference between mimicking someone , and passing their intellectual property off as your own work. This issue affects hundreds of industries, and costs manufacturers billions of dollars in lost sales and legal fees. Counterfeiters hurt people with innovative ideas, and the best way to protect people like Brian Winters is to "save up and keep it real". Thanks for raising the awareness on this issue.
I must say as someone who has been into knives for maybe the last 6 months or so, when I first started, I was certainly tempted and I will admit I bought a fake spiderco off Amazon and soon returned it and ordered the og one and have been taking your stance ever since I saw an older video of your talking about this topic as well.
I've got OG knives as well as clones. High quality clones for the win!
I have bought one counterfeit knife over the years I have been collecting knives. I halfway knew it was but bought it anyway. It was at a shop at a flea market and I thought either I will get the deal of a lifetime, or it is a fake. It was only $25.00 so I took a chance! Alas, it was a fake! I am glad you point out the definition of a clone. A lot of people call knives and multitools that are NOT clones, clones. A clone is an exact copy. I have many knives and multitools that people called clones and they are not. You can tell which tool they were inspired by however! I have no problem with these. People always blame the Chinese for doing this, but American companies did the same thing. Take the iconic Buck 110. I have many American made knives that are heavily inspired by that knife that were made here in the USA by Case, Schrade, Bear and Son, Parker, and a few others. You can easily tell what they are trying to imitate, but they are not clones!
One scenario were I can see a good use for a clone is being a beater or user of your grail knife you won't get the joy out of it but it looks real ish
A lot of these arguments can also be applied to waiting for the exact version of a knife you want. Sometimes it does help to buy the less expensive one to find out what you really like, but if you get to a point where you know you would like the full Ti better than the g10 version, wait and get the full Ti. Otherwise, in the long run, you will probably end up with both.
Hey MC thx great video that can stir up a good discussion about knife community. I do have a question though during a the video you mentioned Cobra tech and Raven Crest and you won't talk about them . Why is that?
I bought a ZT888, but also bought a clone of the ZT888; the real one is in the case, the clone is for EDC. I’d rather the clone get fucked up in daily use. It’s held up for about a decade now. That’s the only clone I own and have owned. If I were to buy a clone again, I’d only do it if I also bought the original. Just my 2 cents
Yeah...so, I love my clones. The real versions are often so overpriced that I can justify it in a blink. Edit - but now I feel guilty 🤣
Eventually you'll cave and get something real. When you do, the realization of all the money you spent on the clones will ring in your head along with the sound of my voice - "I told you"
✌️
@@metal_complex haha I have also definitely done that 🤣. I love knives and have spent thousands. In large part thanks to you! Love your content man. Thank you! Also, now I feel guilty. Didn't think I'd get a reply from the man himself!
Do what makes you happy. But don’t screw other people over in the process.
I'm a big fan of clones. The quality is getting better all the time. Full price name brand knives are too expensive to use, so they sit in my collection while my clones serve the functional tasks in my edc.
Good for you MC. Clones are the physical embodiment of dastardly deeds.
Now that you pulled the curtain down you’ve become Clone enemy #1. A disturber of the peace. A rabble rouser.
The Clone Wars have begun…queue the music.
The only way I would buy a rep is if it's better or equal quality to the original at a lower cost. I don't think that will happen with knives. It has happened with Jordan sneakers though.
I do hate clones, although I'd love if bigger brands would do what Spyderco does with their Byrd knives and make cheaper material versions of the bigger knives so people can buy cheaper versions of the better ones without spending $200+
I lost a gifted customized Buck pocket knife; so I researched and bought a Kizer as a replacement. Now I own 3 Kizer’s, a Civivi, and more.. .I’ll always support and buy originals
Instant gratification is defined as the the temptation, and resulting tendency, to forego a future benefit in order to obtain a less rewarding but more immediate benefit. Some people just can’t be bothered putting in the work or effort to obtain the real thing.
I'm okay with clones and sometimes even counterfeits so long as the buyer knows it's not the real thing. Bought a counterfeit microtech for myself knowing it was a counterfeit mainly because I just want a cheap knife to abuse at work because I like how it looks and feels and I'm not buying a microtech to abuse at work. I just look at it as a cool looking gas station knife. If I break it I don't care.
I got a infidel fixed that was very close and it shook my confidence. I nearly stopped collecting. I got a refund but cloning damages all the people that play by the rules as you stated in the video. In some ways the go for your end item is absolutely valid even in the context of legit manufactures as well. I agree wholeheartedly with that and saving towards it will save a person tons of money and time in the long run. Great tkg episode.
I’ve made clone knives for myself. I have been commissioned for a few. The reason being, I can provide custom materials and any blade shape grind and edge in any steel. I don’t advertise. I have made some great things though and I will do more. I’ve made knives from my own designs as well. It’s just a preference thing. I have many legit knives and I’ve spent a ton and will continue to, but I do like the fact I can customize the designs of others.
I have a couple clones and some real blades. Got a couple clones not realizing they were clones - just liked the design.
I have a bunch of Spydercos (I live 40 mine from their Golden HQ and hit the clearance sales), and clones as well, for beaters.
I understand the whole intellectual property POV, but sometimes my wallet rules (for something I will abuse and won't take care of).
Enjoy your posts.
I was new to knife collecting and bought a bugout on ebay. Did research on it before the seller even shipped it and could tell from the pics that it wasnt right. Sent pics to benchmade who confirmed it wasnt right. Thankfully the seller was a good person and didnt realize he was selling a clone and refunded my money and pulled the listing.
Quite happy that you discussed this... as I was informed by another RUclipsr that there are SOG multitools and a select few of their knives on Aliexpress at outrageously low prices. I wrote SOG but didn't get a response. Are they cutting SOG's distribution out or are they clones?
Maybe I missed it, but what is the name of the knife on the left with the blue accented perimeter?
Rockstead Higo II
@@jdisdetermined ahh so that is the famous Rockstead. Thank you!
When they recreate Pineapple Express in This is the End using toys, that’s what buying a clone is like. No substitution for the real thing. Great video MC.
I just don't trust people enough to buy secondary market and I only buy from reputable knife companies. I don't sell either. If I bought it, I bought it for a reason. If I no longer own a knife is only when I gift one away.
MC is part of the Knife Industrial Complex (KIC)
I bought an ef225. A total clone. At the time I had no idea. Do I want a real Strider? Oh yes. But i do like my clone. So to your point. Yes I was fooled. However I have no regrets. To me I don't give a s*** what you make if you put a D2 blade on it it shouldn't be getting any more than $200
I’ve been a long standing Benchmade fan but I’ve recently decided to start buying clones. I’m sick and tired of these knife companies blatantly scalping prices and making it impossible for the people who would actually use their products. Yes it’s scummy but so is what they’re doing.
I also don’t need diamond infused vibranium because I actually use what I buy. D2 will easily get more sharp than I need, and good clone companies nowadays are starting to use m390 for a few more bones. Eat my ass Benchmade at least microtech offers military discounts.
I’ll spend $200 on a knife I’ll never have to replace but y’all are smoking crack with prices like the crooked River, shootout, etc.
Its a great discussion and should be brought up. Appreciate you doing that.
I’d like to order myself a very specific Microtech from an authorized dealer but I live in NY. I have a Protech/Strider SNG operator but I had to get it second hand. I guess I can understand both sides of the argument. I love knives. All different kinds. I can see why someone would be inclined to buy clones.
The only clone I have is a fake microtech bounty hunter. The real one is 700$ and you pay an extra 300 dollars just to have a fancy paint job. I just wanted it for the look. It was 30$ and better quality than expected.
Saved for a while with money being tight. Really like the Benchmade bailout. Went to a knife show and got a "deal"because the action wasn't 100% perfect. I sent it in to have it corrected and it got confiscated by Benchmade. Out my knife and the money. Time to save again if I can to get another. Learned my lesson.
I own some clones and counterfeits. First, there are different grades of counterfeits--some good and some horrible. You need to know who you're buying from, just like "real" knives. Same with "clones". I own a Vespa that is a clone of a $2,400.00 Microtech and it is an excellent knife, which comes with extra springs, screws, the tool to open the knife, a silk cloth and bag. I say it's a clone because it says Vespa on it and not Microtech, but it sure looks like the $2400 Microtech, or Marifone Custom. It is illegal to produce a counterfeit and our government tries to not let them in the Country, but of course they can't catch them all. Kinda sucks because they still make it on to Ebay as a "real" knife, which is against Ebay policy. Edit-I paid $160.00 for the clone. I'm 100% sure the Microtech is better. but $2240 better?? Not too sure about that.
$1000 knife compared to a 40 dollar clone that is useable . I think the clown is the guy paying 1000 for a knife that does nothing more than cut and NEVER ACTUALLY CUT ANYTHING , you think like a high end collector the only value you have for your collection is other die hard Knife collectors who will buy them if no one cared your 1000 knife is worth nothing but a paperweight in plastic just like any collectible out there , it's all good i get it but the collectors of expensive knives are a bit much, just you saying you will aggressively over pay to get real things is a moronic statement and only empowers companies that overcharge for no reason but to feed your ego. its getting to a point where the quality isn't that much different but the price tags are up there only for the purpose of having a high price tag .its very similar to designer clothes you can pay big bucks from a label on quality clothes that are really outsourced and made in china or just get the non labeled cloth that are essentially the same for reasonable prices . overpricing to seem more valuable is a marketing strategy to appeal to bigger wallets and to seem exclusive. there are plenty of more people that just want a cool knife or a cheap user. some of these knife companies for example Protech is a cheap knife company in disguise as a quality knife company overcharging for a 154CM knife that is easily cloned with the same materials and design. why spend 300 when you can buy it for 40. their prices should be lower for what they offer in such a basic design.
How do you feel about Ganzos? They don't advertise as anything of a Ganzo knife. Back around 2016, before the axis look patent opened up, I bought a ganzo with a Spiderco style blade, Rat 1 body, and a crossbar lock in 440c. I feel like that is a valid knife, sleezy to wholesale copy, but valid. It took 3 different elements from 3 different knives and made a n ew one. Granted, the quality was that of a 20 dollar knife, but they only charged 20.
Respectfully some of these clones are made in the same factory or from the parts of that factory. So to say the quality isn't anywhere close is far from accurate
You didnt watch the whole vid did you? Lol.
Minimum effort will save you from looking silly.
Was in the knife shop and handled the Chris Reeves Sebenza 31. The matte finish on the titanium was underwhelming. The action of the legendary pivot system and bank vault lockup are largely exaggerated. I was very unimpressed. There is no scenario that exists where a knife is worth $500+. An HK P2000 will cost you $750. The engineering and machining to make a great firearm is on a whole other level than making blades. The market sets the price and the market says you are paying too much if you are paying more than $300 on any single knife. Power to you if you like spending your money on titanium folders. It's a tool and it cuts things. Many, many knives will get that job done just fine. You do not need a Hinderer, both literally and figuratively. Thanks for the work you do with these videos. They are informative. Clones are bad in every industry. Clones should not be supported.
They have made a couple shiro clones with the logo and they were damn near impossible to identify unless it's in hand, and you can look through it. The f95t was a very good clone. The action is amazing. I would say it's on par with a 200-300$ knife... it's not the same. Been arguing with people. I showed my real shiro, explained you can't get the same edge alone on a clone. The blade alone is not as good.
However.... shiro f95t is not worth the prices. Shiro is priced far higher than they're quality reaches over other small batch midtechs.
Only clone i have is F95. Not with logo, openly clone. Surely not as good as original but better than any Benchmade I've ever handled. Still bugs me bit to carry it though..
@Ouvert yep. I had a couple shiro clones. I played with them too. Really I got them to beat the shit out of. I would never take my shiro to work and get it covered in powder metal, oil, grease, rust prevention oils etc. Recently I seen a cool knife and picked it up, was showing it off thought it was cool... here someone tells me I got a clone of a Pena x lannys clip. It upset me a bit. So now I'm tracking down a ti jigged lannys clip.
From what ive read kevin john the clone maker was the original oem that did work for CKF for the first few knives. Go figure. Now its reate supposedly
I'm all for companies turning a 180. It's healthy and should be encouraged. Better for the community.
The problem is we don't know who is still doing the "dirty work"
The Kershaw Leek got into collecting. When I got the Launch 13, that's when it started to become a problem.
First off great video on a touchy topic I am in the same boat as you I do not like clones never have never will competitions fine in business, but not when you’re falsely representing your product is something you know it’s not!!! I honestly feel like the Microtech OTF is the most clones knife out there considering how many companies there are did so strictly make budget Microtech OTF look-alikes which is gray area since they have different brand on them and completely different logo if one, so it’s ok. But support the company that was the original designer of the design u like!
Btw what’s that ZT? Looks like Hinderer Eklipse rather than XM-18?
The real deal costs money. Quality has a price
What is the knife on the top row in the middle? It's so purrtie
I'm going to be real honest here, and the following isn'texactly right but im coming with full honesty. If I like your knife, but I don't like you, your business practices, or the company's litigious nature, I'm not opposed to buying a clone of their knife. That is the very specific and only instance where I will buy a clone. To very purposefully not support that maker.
Granted, I have not actually bought a clone, but there is one or two very specific knives from 2 very specific makers that i've shopped around for their clone.
In that case I hold both parties (original and clone maker) slimy as hell and I don't mind buying exactly the design I want for less money. Is this actually right? (ethically?) No, and it's pretty petty also, but in such a specific case it's just as petty as the original maker.
I fell into the clone area when I first started, and I have over 100+ Benchmade, Microtech, ZT, Chris Reeve, and Hinderer clones.
I 100% regret every single one and now I only buy authentics and never support the IP theft of clones.
Using exact models and company logos on products is just wrong, and I learned that the hard way.
I will say, clones are unfortunately getting better, and harder to tell that they are clones/fakes.
Sometimes I have to hold it and flip it myself to tell.
@@calebader6695 I understand what you mean. It's theft in my mind, even if it legally isn't.
I bought a pair of Kershaw Launch clones for $15 each when i first started. One was trash the other was really great... i regret both 🤷
@@TristateEDC YO it's the GOAT! I had a blast in your live stream tonight
Ohio!!!
Hey MC this video was awesome let the haters hate I watch your channel so I can see the knife out of my price range an I did buy a qsp penguin after I see the video you had about that knife an I love it use it every day an your right it a great knife thank for your information about knifes
I almost pulled the trigger on a Zero Tolerance 0562 on ebay...then i noticed it didnt even have the ZT stamping on the blade..it looked so good but i had to turn it down..gotta have the real thing!
The best thing about buying left handed models offered by legitimate knife companies is that I know that are 100% legit. Why? Because the Chinese never clone lefty knives. You can buy or sell a lefty model and be assured it is the real deal. Finally, a knife advantage for lefties! 😉
The way I see it:
1. Buy the original: Congratulations. You get the right stuff and you can afford it.
2. Buy a collaboration, ZT or the CRKT Mah-Hawk: No problem at all. Legit and really good for a lower budget.
3. Buy a copy, a knife that looks very much like another one but without the logo and with variations in design (different thumb hole etc.): Not illegal, but morally questionable.
4. Buy a counterfeit: Problematic and illegal (if you try to sell one here in Germany, you will be prosecuted).
I would be very surprised if there wasn’t some connection between some of the factories making original Chinese designs and those making Chinese counterfeits. Like it would be very strange if there were two completely separate parallel industries for legit Chinese knives and Chinese clones/counterfeits. I’m sure there must be some crossover right?
Who knows tho
I bought a Ganzo Delica clone because I couldn’t see what was so good about an FRN backlock to pay Spyderco’s price for it. Once I got the Ganzo it gave me some insight into the design and I knew I had to get the real thing! I got it and I love it. Can sorta be a try before you buy sorta thing.
The clone is definitely never gonna scratch the same itch as the real thing tho
About the axis lock situation, wasn't Hogue making basic one to one clones of Benchmade's Ritter varients of the griptilian? Or did they get special permission to remake that knife? I've always wondered.
Ritter originally worked with Benchmade and then went to Hogue when his contract ended with Benchmade.
I will never forget about 4 years ago I got a MT Stitch from my father-in-law and man was I over the moon. About 2 weeks later a buddy of mine went and bought a clone from somewhere and it was darn close to a real Stitch and I argued with him for about 45mins about how I feel that just makes me feel dirty is the only way I was able to describe it to him. So I took mine and my buddies and rushed out into the yard and asked my wife which one was the real one thinking that she could easily pick out the real thing since it feels different. Yup, you guessed it she picked the close saying that it just "feels" more like a quality knife. I died inside that day.
I picked up some clones when I first started getting into knives. At the time, I thought of it as "try it before you buy it", but it was severely misguided. I've since bought authentic knives for the clones I had, and used the clones to practice sharpening on before throwing them away. I made a mistake in the beginning, but will never buy another clone. There's respect and pride collecting authentic knives. I scored a Yeager M KnifeJoy exclusive last year, and it's one of my top Grail knives. The clone wars are over in my house.
Oh. Btw. Kevin John started cloning the socom delta, and now he's making knives for ckf
You should have a good think about things, mate. Chinese companies only have to follow Chinese laws. Copyright laws are different in different countries. Many OEMs actually have the right to produce a percentage of the output for themselves and/or after a certain established period of time.
The knives sold on AliExpress are sold as clones/copies. They don't hide that fact.
The con industry exist in every facet of life art, watches, jewellery, computers. Human greed is what it is and people get taken for a ride.
If Americans abuse the cheap labour in underdeveloped countries just to boost profits, they deserve everything they get.
That being said most my knives are original but I don't have a "holier than thou" attitude towards other people's behaviour.
Na sorry. I'm completely against this. Not changing my mind. No offense meant, but you will absolutely gain no ground with me.
Have a nice day.
@@nameless-yd6ko yep. Cool story bro. My retorts are all included in the video. Have a nice day
I would argue this all day. I have bought real and clones, some easy to tell the difference some are real good fakes. And I know the steel is not the same as the real thing or the handle material is not the same or the fot amd finish isn't The most expensive knife I own is $350, and that was a stretch for me for something that gets used and, at the end of the day, is a tool. I feel as long as people are not trying to sell them off as the real things to people that don't know any better, I say go for it.
Before I knew about fakes I bought a cheap "benchmade" from Ebay and tried to sell it. One of the potential buyers messaged me and said "I know it's fake but I still want it, will you take $70 for it?"
Needless to say I took it down and returned it and reported the seller.
I posted a tiktok wondering if Cloners specifically go out of there way to clone Medfords, as they're clearly at war with him.
but then i even stumbled across listings for knock off EMPEDC Nymbles. 1.) the pics were clearly terrible mockups wherein the lockbar relief was present but the lockbar itself wasn't actually cut out.
Im still bemused by who'm they're targeting with these knock offs.
Funnily enough though, the Medford clones were all like 10$ or 20$ and the Nymbles were listed at 86$ 🤔
i own three Nymbles so it grabbed my attention.
EDIT; I'm coming from the vape industry wherein cloning was a literally DANGEROUS problem back in the day, so I'm in no way
shape, or form accepting of any excuses.
Every tome there's a hobby that involves stuff, cheap factories are going to make counterfeits of the stuff. It's always the same story.
2:03 what the hell was that? Well I buy name-brand and I buy clones, it's my money I'll spend it wherever the hell I want! I'm not going to spend $700 from Medford! Lol and on my channel I shall both I show clone sometimes and I show the real thing and I've also showed them in comparison, but I'll buy what I want to buy!
I look at it like this: A genuine Casio is more impressive to people who understand horology than a fake Rolex. And there are many genuine watches that have a lot of the design language of the Rolex which do something original which are interesting, affordable and a viable alternative you can afford.
Knives are very similar. You can be an absolute knife snob and never spend more than 30 USD on a knife. It's about understanding WHY it's good.
In my country is alegal to carry a foldind knife but if a officer check you and you got one on you, you get 300€ at minimum and the knife disappear. Another reasoy I buy clones is because I love some designs but I can't afford to lose a 250€+300€, instead I bought a clone for 25€ and I they take from me I don't go broke (im actually broke so 🗿)
There is nothing wrong with someone saying: "I like this knife, and I can make one just like it or better." Having said that, I wouldn't approve a counterfeit.
thank u sir