An In-depth look into the timeline of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon hiking the El Pianista trail
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Come with me as I test the times between the photographs of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon hiking the El Pianista trail.
#releaseallthefullsizeimages
At 6:14, the photo of Kris was taken AFTER they came back. The 485 one was taken around 11-12 a.m., the 486 one was taken around 3-4 p.m.
Lisanne carried the backpack on the way up, Kris did it the way down.
The timeline of the photos was changed by someone, to make everyone think they did not come back
@@Anonymous-py1sf can you prove Lisanne carried the backpack up?
The could just have changed going up.
The pictures where tampered with and image 509 was deleted from a computer. Possibly the order of the images was altered and what is more likely is that Froon was carrying the backpack on the way up and Kremer carried the backpack on the way back. In the supposed last creek crossing picture they might have been already on the way back and the pictures of Kremer carrying the backpack at the summit are on their return trip. It makes less sense for them to switch the backpack seconds in between photos. The frequency of photos decreased because they where already on their way back likely. Deleted image 509 was probably inconvenient for the official lost narrative and placed them in another location. Panama needed the case closed fast to avoid a Holloway type of scenario with their tourist sector getting decimated.
Got some evidence for that, or are we just spouting nonsense like the rest?
It is a ponytail not a bun. At the both picture's is only looked like a messi bun because the wind blows the hair away in a different direction. So, from the side it looks like a bun.
really good work and you have proven beyond a doubt that the photos on 1 April are photo shopped, but i wonder if you can prove that one of the photos on the trek on 1st April is real then we would know that is where the problems started, keep digging there's so much light on this case at the moment.
@Jean Keraudy i'll give you ten
why go to the trouble of photoshop? why
i don't think so,saw there is no real proof...
As someone who hikes randomly, but loves taking photos, I take mostly "dead photos". I think it's possible they were just enjoying themselves while walking.
yes, you just snap away, and later when you check the photos, you see a lot that are not very good. Easey with a digitel camera.
Absolutely right. I also can see myself to make such pictures. Its a nice calm river in the nature, with reflections - it captures some mood of the location ! Also backpacker-coach confused the image numbers - thats why he comes to wrong conclusions about the times when the photos were taken. The source: imperfectplan has the right times for the photos, and immediately the timeframes make much more sense. I dont know wether backpacker-coach had a bad source for the fotos, or wether he for purpose said other times to support his narrative ? hm - i hope it was just because of his bad source.
Yeah that was something I found to be such a weird comment. It's like this person backpacks but doesn't see the beauty in those photos. Everything doesn't need a reason.
There are so many inconsistencies, it's almost impossible to believe that they just got lost in the jungle. Of course that was the official story, so the case could be closed and hopefully forgotten as to not hurt the tourism industry. I still believe there's somebody out there who knows something...and hasn't "conveniently" died.
The tour guide didn't even believe that they went past the Mirador into the jungle.
Taxi driver
Lol are you joking? Just think about what you’re saying. Somebody commits a double homicide, over the course of a week, allowing the victims to use their phones at their leisure to call police, even allows the use of a camera. Then after a week decides to kill them, while leaving no evidence. Then, leaves all the valuable objects like cash, and even a camera that contains evidence behind. Why not destroy their phones/camera immediately? Why let them live for several days? Why let them try to call police? It’s absurd to suggest somebody killed them.
@@mjk-th2tm yes yes yes ? or they abducted the girls somebody used their phones to call emergency's, faked the photos to make it look like the girls where on the track photoshop. brought body parts, and the back packs. back later to be found, it would work in a movie. now i am starting to go of the track; you need a time machine to sort this one out. god bless the poor girls
@@mjk-th2tm I absolutely agree with you. There are so much contradictionary elements to the murder-theory, regardless how we twist it to make it ''fit''..
First: if the girls were killed first, no criminal would make 1) such an efford to make emergency calls for many days , even make 100 nightshots in 4 hours (!) in the middle of nowhere, in the rain and cold, photoshopping and deleting certain fotos,... BUT 2) give the investigators the backpack, the phones, the camera back.. and even not taking care about the corpses, just throw them into a river with a well populated area (indios) where everyone can see: cloths (Kris Jeans, Lisannes Shoes) and risking that even full bodys are found...
First part: ''extremely intelligent careful murder'' ... second part : ''just throwing everything into the river, and give them to the police'' .... that just doesnt fit together.
And if we go for the second theory : the girls lived few days, but then got killed , it also doesnt fit: no criminal on this earth would allow to keep their phones and call for emergency. And no killer would risk it, to do it himself ''to set up a lost girls''-theory - because: an emergency call, if it gets trough by coincidence , the autorities get immediately alarmed. Thats just a naive risk, no criminal would ever take. Because the first day there wasnt even a search for the girls going on - but the girls called already at the first day for emergency (if it gets trough, the autorities would be immediately alarmed, that something happend , and wouldnt wait to the next day , wenn Feliziano was alarming the police).
So the killers cant made the calls - no killer would do that. And if the girls made the calls, even worse : no killer would let keep the girls their phones, their camera, etc...
There is also a third murder-theory which is better than the first two , but also cant solve a lot of problems: the third theory goes : the girls were indeed lost in the first 8 days, but then criminals found them, and decided to rape and kill them. This theory fails for the same reasons as the first theory: those criminals would not risk to throw their belongings into a river - carefully so that the phone and camera doesnt get damaged. Hell even the passports of the girls were nicely packed into the backpack (no criminal on this world would make it easier for the police to identify: whom the backpack belonged)... not even for a ''set up lost girls theory'' - because there is no need to pack the passports into the backpack to support the ''lost girls theory'' .. the passport could be just thrown seperately away, and no one would be suspicious when lost girls lose their passports in desperate situations in the jungle somehow.
For criminals there are two ways to handle the belongings of the girls:
First: burn it - delete traces
Second: sell it (whille the Iphone 4 of Kris was 4 years old at that time and wouldnt make a lot of money on the black market, the Samsung S3 of Lisanne was quiet fresh at that time , and would make quiet big money... if criminals are so smart to ''assumingly'' delete picture 509 on the camera with a laptop, without any possibility to recover it by most professional forensics , than they also can wipe the S3 (factory reset) and sell the phone for good money) ... Also, like you already said: they would keep the 83 dollars of money - or at least would let much less in the backpack (because no one knew anyway how much money the girls carried on that hiking) .
So in conclusion: literally every murder-theory just doesnt make sense. Even a ''alien abduction theory by extraterrestrials'' make more sense, than the murder theory (at least it explains that the aliens arent in need of money, or smartphones - and they dont care wether the police finds out the truth or not - because: good luck with catching them 100 lightyears away). I'm joking here - but just want to say: how ridicilous the murder theory is.
There could be a fourth murder theory , which would explain seemingly a lot :
The murderer was a crazy person - meaning: partly he did irrational things , and partly he did very intelligent things (deleting image 509, placing fake emergency calls, putting a big efford into the nightshots etc). That would explain his irrational behavior: to just let the police find the backpack, the smartphones, the cameras, etc - risking to get catched.
The weakness of this theory is: a murderer who is partly brilliant, and partly very careless throwing evidences everywhere, is not just: very likely to get caught very fast ... but he wouldnt stop with that. Mental unstable murderers tend to repeat their actions on other victims ...
Such a criminal is well known in the criminal history for : being caught quiet fast. Even by bad investigators.
So in conclusion: its more than 99,9% that the girls got lost and/or injured, and starved to death, or died from injuries slowly.
The much more important question is (and that where its so hard to find answers) : how did it happened. We know literally nothing what happend after image 508. We only know few phone-data (when it was powered on, which apps were used when, and when they made the emergency calls etc ). And the nightshots. Thats it. Thats so little meaningful information that its quiet impossible to reconstruct what happened to them exactly. We only can roughly say: they starved to death or died from injuries. Thats frustrating, but thats the most reliable conclusion.
In some instances you are assuming that just one of the girls moved to change the positions to take the picture... If both girls moved the time could be enough... Keeping in mind that is difficult to determine the exact place where each girl was at the time of the pictures...
Keep in mind that the women are trying to take quality pictures also. It takes a second or 2 just to steady the camera, and then another second or two to aim. If we incorporate movement - even if both women moved- that still wouldn't explain the time.
I think we need to remember that the women were trying to take quality pics.
Very disappointed by your video... It just tells everyone you have no clue on investigating photography: the camera has a 20x zoom capability and assuming that they didn't use it was wrong from the get go. Specially when we know they are hicking and it is easier to use the camera zoom than to move. Also to study digital photography you have access to the meta data of each picture that gives you the exact focal lens for each picture. Another point that really made me wonder why you think you have any authority to analyze these pictures is when you assumed that clouds in pictures go from right to left or vise versa. The clouds I see in these pictures are going towards the camera and it seems that the sky is opening and not the opposite. Hence seeing more sun later on.
VICE VERSA
Podrias poner subtitulos en español? Seguimos este caso desde Argentina. Gracias! Muy buenas tus investigaciones
Si y desde uruguay
Aca tb de Argentina...sigo este caso desde hace una semana que me entere y me da pesadillas...me niego a creer que con tanta tecnologia no se pueda resolver este caso...pero en parte es por el encubriemiento y la corrpucion de Panama...
@@ciudadanosdelcosmos I found this case almost a year ago and I keep going back too. Hope it gets solved but I guess all of us understand that it's impossible at this point
I'm from Ukraine btw
@@TayTayT Hi, sorry for my english. mi resume: The hike:
We dont know if they went to the Pianista trail(maybe just at the start and return becouse Lisa was hill and bad whit her asma, and maybe that pics on Pianista are with photoshop.),but yes they went to lino trail...
Theories
-A)It was planned from the beginning(with intent to organ-harvesting), starting with the Spanish School... people have died in connection to this case: ,Jorge Rivera Miranda,Osman Valenzuela, Jorge Murgas, , taxi driver Leonardo Gonzales. who´sleader is Henry Elizar Gonzales, son of tour guide Feliciano Gonzales(F). Henry Elizar Gonzales(alive), Edwin Aguirre( dead or alive?)...
Girls went to Caldera hot Spring (or Rio Chiriqui Nuevo?),(taxi driver carried them ) and swiming with Murgas and Osman ,(photo taken by Aguirre or Henry?) ,the girls had the feelings that thay guys were starting had sexual intentions, the girls went and they being chased,,they where capture,possible than KK in the middle of the fight has hitted with something in the head and died that same day...the other guys maybe where debatting what to do with Lisa,,maybe she escape, and later captured by night and die april 4 of agony...
B)KK rejected Feliciano(F) tour,,,it was a mix of revenge and crazynees ,and not all wanted the same destiny for this girls.
The girls where forced to go to the north becouse the where chased,,,they turned back and agressors catched them, maybe Lisa have an accident and fall ,and F son (Henry G) and this gang captured the girls , separated them ,one carried near a cave or waterfall or maybe near the F coffe farm.They tortured ,raped and killed them....
Hola , mas abajo puse mis dos teorias de lo que pudo haber pasado en ingles. saludos!
What are you talking about with the hair??? Her hair is the same in every picture just a different angle. Her hair was short and it was a low ponytail so you wouldn’t see it from the front. So the wind blew in one pic and the hair moved. There’s no conspiracy behind her dang hair! I also don’t find it strange if she did change her hair. That’s not odd at all. I also change my hair multiple times. Just a little bit ago I was cleaning my house my hair was down, I pulled it up into a ponytail, then I was rinsing the shower and my hair got wet as I sprayed so I pulled it into a high bun, I bent down and scrubbed and my bun fell loose…this all happened within a span of maybe 5 minutes. So what!
Note that photo 486 is changed position, Kris's shadow is the reverse of the way out, that photo is one of the last when she brings the backpack, they returned
This is a great video!!! I have been fascinated with this mystery and it is nice to see things from a different angle. Really good!!
@BackpackerCoach, have you shared your work with authorities, like the FBI? Also, are the photos off timeline, etc.due to the detectives reviewing them and then reassembling? The one point someone made that is 'huge' is that if they were able to do anything with their devices at all, why not leave messages to their loved ones? Thanks so much.
Exactly
No, because this is a waste of time
The issues of being 'far away from the camera' in the selfies is so dumb. The short girl was holding the camera in the first one, the tall girl with long arms has it in the second. This person also clearly doesn't understand the excitement of two girls this age. If you're taking a fun selfie, the angle you want is top down because it's flattering and they're in a fun moment. Also they could be running over to exchange the backpack/camera because, again, they're having a good time. The issue with the clouds makes no sense also. It's windy af clearly. The clouds could be doing anything. The weather changes so rapidly there that any comments about the weather are ridiculous, and what's the point? A cloud can cover the sun and then move, too. This is on par with the videos saying the photos are photoshopped, as if for any reason anyone would put that much effort in to a cover up when it's completely unnecessary to do so. All the police needed to do was say the theory that they did and no one can argue with them. They don't need to convince anyone. I agree that maybe the photos got messed with, like their order or something, but for what reason? It doesn't matter one way or another. Her hair is in a pony tail BTW. The whole time.
This video I found very interesting 😃
Interesting video, but I don't agree with your comments about ponytails/buns and clouds. It's all in the angle explains the ponytail (it's on the other side of Lisanne's head in some photos). Clouds change, especially cumulus clouds, which are what's pictured.
I think photos 484 and 485 are pretty conclusive- one is a pony tail and one is a bun.
Man, if you think the photos were tampered with or the meta-date changed. Then you have to confront the fact that photos were taken on phones too. And to fake them is much more difficult than separately on the SD card. Photo IMG_0482 also no photoshop. There is an original photograph in a resolution of 4000x3000. The reflection of the camera is clearly visible there. Another proof that the name of the output file is IMG_0482, means what is done on camera. Smartphones have a different name for the generated file.
You are way to obsessed with this case.😊
AWESOME VIDEO🔥🔥🔥🔥 they probably agreed to cross that monkey bridge TOGETHER, which means they fell together breaking Lisanne's metatarsal and a skull fracture for Kris. I have watched falls from Monkey bridges, they happen very, very fast as the ropes spread apart. Perfect way to break a metatarsal bone falling horizontally on a rock. This theory explains why Lisanne could not simply go back uphill the way they came to get help for Kris. Tons of pics taken from bridge, red bags attached to sticks, reflective pringles can, paper makers laid out. Once Kris died, Lisanne's only option was to limp further down into the deep dark jungle. One bad decision compounded to disaster, so sad.
didn't they phone emergencies before they got to the monkey bridge. ?
that's what i think why one or both could not go back along the way they came for help. they both must of been hurt.
@@george5590 yes probably called 1st when they got lost before dark, there are 3 monkey bridges they had to cross after that, pictures with S.O.S. papers, pinkvbags, pringles reflector were taken with monkey bridge in background. That's the one they fell off. Both countries official findings were that they fell off that bridge. There is no other conclusion that fits the actual facts.😀
one would think they would be blood, found no blood on the bag on the phones. After going through this for years ?i thought it was an accident, i am not Shure now. police should of talked to some of the farmers., the backpack. with the phones in it , returned to the river side, was it staged.we need a time machine., poor girl's god bless them, if there is a god?
@@grand372 While there is a possibility for the monkey-bridge incident, i disagree with you: that the monkey bridge is visible in the nightshot. Yes i know the one particular photo of which a lot of people say ''there is a straight line in it'' .. i see that line too , but i have a quiet good resolution foto of it , and the line isnt ''that straight'' as you wanna think - it also misses many monkey-bridge-features.
So i am quiet sure: the foto doesnt show a monkey bridge. None of the nightshot-fotos shows it. BUT that doesnt dismisses your theory. Its actually still a strong theory, which explains quiet a lot:
1) it explains why the girls didnt managed to make more distance in 11 days, than only few miles (even in terms of jungle, thats not a lot)
2) it explains the SOS-sign (people are making SOS signs when they plan to stay at one spot).
3) It can explain the broken pelvis-bone of Kris
4) It can explain why they didnt bumped into indios or other people (to be at one place the whole time, reduces the probability to bump into other people)
5) i makes it at least plausible: why both girls were found in the river, and all their belongings also (everything downstream the river).
6) it gives a very strong explaination: why Lisanne made her emergency call more than 10 minutes later ! When Kris was the first who felt off the monkeybridge (or nearby!), Lisanne was maybe trying to reach her - get to her ..her first priority was: to help Kris, not to make the emergency call.. when she got to her, she also made her emergency call. Kris didnt needed to wait .. after she (Kris) fell of the monkey bridge (or nearby), she knew she was in a bad situation, and she called the emergency , while Lisanne was trying to reach her.
So in my opinion they didnt crossed the monkey bridge at the same time, as you suggest, because than probably they would call for emergency at the same time (as they did in the later days !). So there must been a reason why the emergency calls differ by more than 10 minutes on the first day.
And because the jeans of Kris was found more south (upstream) of the second cable bridge , i kind of think that the accident happened at the first first cable bridge (possible nearby). The smaller river of the 1st cable bridge leads to the bigger river with the 2nd cablebridge where the jeans was found (the most upstream belonging of the girls).
Now: i say ''nearby the 1st cable bridge for two reasons'' ...
1st reason: indios are quiet often crossing those bridges... espescially in a timeframe of 10 days ! They would have spotted the girls within 10 days for sure. But no one did.
2nd reason: for me its absolutely possible that the girls didnt dare to cross the river on the monkeybridge itself, so they searched a more ''save'' area, where Kris slipped and had that accident. 10 minutes later Lisanne reached the point where Kris was, and also made the emergency call.
Great work. Assuming the photos at the summit are facing the same way, how is it that at 1:56 it is all dense thick cloud, and in 5 seconds, it's blue sky? This case is so bizarre, but for the police to say it an accident can only be to protect the tourist industry. The main thing to me that proves something sinister happened, is the face that apparently these girls stayed alive for so many days from when they went on this hike, and were apparently still using the camera and phones, surely at one point they would have made a video to their family members, its as simple as that I'm afraid. If they got injured or lost and was out of food and water, that's what they would of done, a make shift video saying there goodbyes incase they didn't make it.
And we know out of all the pictures that was taken, there was only one deleted, of which no one has been able to access, the apparent last one. How is it, that every single selfie photo taken on the digital camera, was absolutely perfect? No way!!!!! If I was using a digital camera and taking selfies, I would take a fair few each time and go through and delete them when hooked it up to a laptop.
@Stephen Ray, yes! Even that one fact brings down the accident theory. If they were able to take weird nighttime photos, make calls that didn't connect, then they would have done that. Odd that the 'perps' did think to make an emergency call to Holland..
@@denisewhitaker5116 is there any latest news on this case? Or new documentaries someone has done? Do you know? Still can't believe nothing has come from this
@Stephen Ray, I will let you know as I go. Many sites have covered this case, but to no more of a conclusion. On this thread, I ask the coach if he has been in contact with the FBI or some authority regarding some of these observations. I wonder what is going on behind the scenes as something is keeping this case in the public sphere.
could somebody ells? of been using the phones? to frow the investigation of the track so to speak ?
I love your work and I think you are really on to something. But at #08:30 you are comparing a screenshot taken directly from a widescreen TV-show named "BNN" to a screenshot taken directly from the camera.
Keep up the good work though :D
That doesn't matter. The images are the same width. And I don't think it's a screen shot. More like a down loaded image. If it was a screen shot it wouldn't have had an image number.
@@BackpackerCoach I am no Christoper Nolan expert when it comes to size differences on a television screen, it's hard for me to explain through YT. But I do disagree on this one. Anyway keep it up, I really enjoy these video's from you 😀👍🏻
@@BackpackerCoach Hi,,good videos!! sorry for my english...the IMG 508 if we asume that is modified..do you think that that gilrs where there in that mountain,,its strange becouse camera shows that they were 19:54pm but there is sun ..and first emergency calls were 16:39 and 16:51 pm... thanks
The weather changes and clouds move very fast out there. I watch nomadic movement vlog. The wind and rain come in so fast around the mountains in boquete.
I had a thory what they where washed down by a rapid stream of water coming from the mountain while thy where swimming at the river
What I really don’t understand is why they were using swimsuit if they were not thinking of going to the beach. Maybe they were thinking of going to Bocas del Toro through one of the paths or having a bath in a waterfall inside the forest. Don’t really know.
There was no swimsutes.😮
Coach, the picture that raises the biggest red flag with me is the two pictures of Lisanne at the Summit that are 6 seconds apart. I go back and forth between highly implausible or impossible. Just because something is not probable doesn't mean it didn't happen. But obviously something that is not possible didn't happen.
Do you think Lisanne and Kris could change directions, pick a good picture angle, take the time to take the photo (which I think they would take time to do this because they probably intended to put these pictures online), and do you think there would be such a contrast in the sky in 6 seconds?
First thing to mention is the camera did not have any way to get the photos off the camera, IE wifi.
so the only photos that would be going on line would be from their phones, not the camera.
As for the sky. I like to look at it this way. Lets say the clouds moved in like they show. OK. Then why are the other pictures after the top still sunny? So like you said the photos on top are highly implausible but not impossible. But that makes the other photos after the top not possible in my mind.
To BackpackerCoach, yours is a brilliant approach to analysing what is certainly the definite result of foul play in the disappearance of Kris and Lisanne. Since the trail they took was relatively easy, we can rule out their getting lost, with the alternative being foul play. Further, with the disappearance also of photo No. 509, we can conclude that the memory card was expertly edited. Further still, the discrepancies in the photos which you bring attention to, might only be explained with an EXIF Metadata editor being employed and used but merely to confuse, rather than to purposefully create a believable alternate Timeline. Unfortunately our combined information does not solve the mystery. What it does is to point to a possible individual, a computer forensic expert who altered the memory card to throw off investigators. One should try to track down such an expert who may have been in close proximity to the evidence to determine who directed the subterfuge. I believe this could be a lead in an otherwise hopeless case.
@Anthony Smith, yes, all of this can and should be brought to expert's attention. The coach has done amazing work that should be reviewed by the FBI or another top agency, etc.
5:07 The hair is not what you should look at. See how there were only 4 seconds of difference from each photo. It is 99% impossible that you can walk away, pose for the photo in 4 seconds.
Edit: you talked about that here: 6:16
Am guessing the time posted is related to the time it got processed not the actual time it got taken.
bigger picture, brighter colours, more data, more time to be processed.
ruclips.net/video/0gwhH0Gv-TE/видео.html в этом видео ,в этом походе можно сравнить верно или не верно время
your distance caclulations can't be right,if you don't know how much they zoomed out or in before the shot,or am i wrong?
One has to assume that they did not zoom in to take any of the photos. It is an assumption.
They came back from the trail. Lissan carries the backpack there, Chris carrier it back.
I see that the timing is completely odd and seems impossible
There is a case in Texas that you might be interested in - Jason Landry.
so what is the point, what? what are we to believe? photo shop? so you mean somebody went to a lot of trouble to change the photos and why., i do not think the Villigers would be into photo shop. i m lost here. can somebody enlighten me? pls?
have you looked at the prince? Andrew photo and the girl,? was that photodhop
Interesting analysis ,at 2.47 they are pictures of a stream nothing unusual,people take lots of pictures of uninteresting things esp.young women.
Nice video. But I totally disagree with you on Lisannes hair. It is not a bun. It is pony tails in all the 3 first pictures you talk about.
I notice you also have a question marks in the space of some of the photos. I thought there was only one photo missing? I'm obviously missing some things here.
They only release some of the photos. Being the case it closed. I don't see why they don't release the rest of the photos. but for what ever reason they haven't
Favor Subtítulos en Español, gracias.
Hair made up in a bun? She could have had a bit of hair hanging down on her left side. I don't think she altered her hair in between photos.
The metadata should tell the device, date, and time the photos are taken with. If the metadata is intact, then there must be something wrong with the internal time clock (I agree with Backpacker Coach's analysis, especially most people don't use the zoom function with a smartphone). But if the metadata shows no device name, then the photos must have been taken out from somewhere, edited, and arranged before putting back to the phone or the phone's micro sd card - (the timestamps on the photos are the time which they were being transferred).
No you are wrong about it (but thats not your fault) . Backpackercoach has a very bad source for the fotos ... even the numbers of his fotos are confused - but also the times. Imperfectplan has the correct times and the correct numbers of the photos sorted. I dont know why backpackercoach have such faulty data. It leads to wrong conclusions.
no reason to take the picture, you seem like a photographic judge. when you go through your photos when you have been traveling you come across a few photos you are not happy with, easy to do with a digital camera, snap away.
Anyone who doesnt think these photos are photoshopped is blind.... these pictures all look so bad and just off.
Sub títulos en español. Por favor
Thank for trying to explain the photos but it doesn’t make sense
thank you for this video and your investigation. I saw your video about the eyewitnesses and remembered, there was an elderly woman with a pink hat who said that this day, she saw the girls passes by her house the weather was bad/cloudy. So she wondered about their clothes. But she couldn't speak english and the girls couldn't speak spanisch so she said nothing to the girls. Do you remember? I remembered that when I saw the sunny pictures from the top of the mountain.
I think it is very interesting that the old lady said it was cold and cloudy as well as seeing them @ 4 pm.
@@BackpackerCoach She lied
I think there are too many misinformation on both the stated timings and image numbers. Some expert has to locate these places, analyze the sunshine and derive the time. Maybe then we will be onto something. For me, it looks like the public information they released is delebaretly vague, unclear, and manipulative.
But in terms of the bun isn't the wind just blowing it along her left side
I think the photos are photo-shopped.
The one that is supposed to be 10 seconds later of Kris with the backpack looks like later in the day just from the light the light has began to darken and get more of an orange tone. I think the one of Kris is on the way out and the entire set of pictures have been messed with and rearranged. It would be awesome for a real forensic camera tech to get their hands on the original memory card.
How does the image on the bridge not have a number? Is that odd?
Chalk that up to one more thing that is off about this case.
Hi, you saw the minute 16:53 ??? it is a gun shadow between both girls ? btw, excellent work
It's the shadow of the girls arm. So obvious.
Buen análisis, eso le falto a los investigadores holandeses, ¿pero quien manipulo las fotos ? ¿Los investigadores panameños o los asesinos?
My opinión is that you think this based on you and not being truly objective. Why you said that there is no reason to take a picture when maybe they like the surroundings and nature? I do not see anything strange there.
Ofc that is possible. Some pics do look very off though. And then the pic with a big white dot..
Hi, I think yours is a very interesting approach that should be followed up with more professional experiments. Your "tests" definitely need approvement when you experiment the timeline between the pics, for instance you don't take into account how much faster 2 young women would move in that kind of a situation and also that they BOTH move towards each other or away of each other at the same time in order to change position to take nice pics of each other. They'd probably be running, giggling, jumping not taking slow steps, saying "ready?" All that could cut your test times to half or less. Imo it's the same with the exchange of the backback, that could be done within 1 or 2 seconds easily, I've tried that. And it makes sense, too, because they would both want pics of themselves that show them as "serious" backpackers on a trail. I am not so sure about the bun/pony tail theory either, it is very windy on that stretch to the actual jungle trail, very windy! To me it looks as if the pony tail may be blown up by the wind against her head. Also playing around with a pony tail, sticking the hair up, letting it down over and over, then open it up to let it fall loose and take it back up... that's another thing young girls do all the time, esp. when it is windy and even more so when taking pictures or selfies. Next the overcast skies to the left and the blue skies to the right seem quite "normal" to me, near the mountains, as well as the fact that the high sun over them was still shining, the sky right above them not overcast at that time, so there was sun and shadows in the next pictures. But that would have to be tested at the trail in similar sun conditions, same time of day and year etc... I had seen the other video where you try to prove that all the pics are photo shopped and I was intrigued at first, but looking at those pics from other sources over and over, the details in them just don't support that theory. And honestly, no matter how sinister a story one can possibly theorize, there is no scenario for that to be logic, either. If they met foul play I doubt that the criminal(s) involved were tec wizzards and geniuses going through that kind of trouble to prove... what? Nor were the photos helpful for a national "cover up", they were not needed to come to the official conclusion, the camera and phones could have been gone and the official outcome would still be the same, maybe even with less public doubts. Because the pictures (and where they stopped) left more quetions than answers. Nevertheless thanks a bunch for your efforts, I found your videos very interesting and inspiring to think and investigate further, I do look more sceptical at the time stamps on some of these pictures now, too. Looks like either on camera or on smart phone or both... they may not be as correct and exact as we would all hope and expect of our devices. I wondered could the continental devide going right through the trail mess with the time stamps of the devices?
I will be doing a comparison of first official photos and the official photos from the imperfect plan. Stay tuned.
I get the problems with the pictures and some do seem photoshopped. But you would definitely hate my pictures. I have lots of pictures like the ones you said "are dead and no point for them" I would take that picture seems like a cool little shade area to wade in the water to me.
Me too, that's the one thing I disagree with. Especially on a trip like this, I'd take plenty of random pointless pictures as reference points or just for a nice snap of the scene.
you just snap away with a digital camera. you do not have to pay for them to be developed, just snap away.,
All pictures were photoshopped … I looked carefully. The pic of Lisanne with gang member behind her (beach), shown him with 3 dots behind him. Think: Lisanne’s ankle was marked with 3 dots. This represents photoshop.
5:50 just windy
So, you mean, they weren't hiking this trail, they weren't there at all. Their photos are a hoax(((
That is one theory. But I think they did hike a part of the trail. But not all the way to the top. If they hiked all the way to the top and beyond. they would have had the same feel as the first photos on the trail. with photos of one or both of them along the trail.
Thank you for doing this. I’ve always wondered about the degree of the view at the top of the pianista trial. Since it was the continental divide, could you look toward the Atlantic and then do a 180 and look toward the Pacific. Maybe the cloudy pictures were taken facing the cloud forest and the sunny pictures were the opposite direction.
Having been there myself: from El Mirador, you can look east or south east only. The two oceans are not visible from El Mirador. As confirmation, you can get the GPS coordinates for the top and you can look up part of the trail on Google Earth; and "turn it around" in 3D. Basically from the top, you are looking at an neighborhood called Palo Alto.
Its not a ponytail, its a bum but the ends are not tucked in so it looks like its different but its not
Image 479 almost looks like someone is in the middle of the river in the distance, but it could be a rock too!
yes is a rock...if u look carefully you will notice it s a rock
However I believe 1 error i spotted is that probability wise they would be more likely to walk toward eachother, it would be weird human behaviorif 1 person a whould remain stationary. Your test with the backpack is pretty robotic, for 1 you'd most likely take the backpack off Wile walking. So in the scenario of walking towards each other it would cut the time by half including putting the back pack on and off would also cut the time by possibly over half.
The boys were aroused and had a party with these 2 girls.
3:07 they were eating a snack maybe
A snack 11 minutes into the hike?
Why weren't the "sniffer" dogs able to find the women?
Because they were not there.
You lost me at the bun/pony tail bit.. occams razor says its wind and nothing more. Which is exactly what it is. To think it is anything other than that is insane
people take random photos of things they think look pretty in the moment but the resulting image looks very poor and does not relate what the scene looked like in real life. i think you should focus your effort on the ONLY photo that attempts to tell a story - the diagram on the rock with the twig, pebble, red material and foil. imo the twig represents the monkey bridge and the riverbed. the red material represents where each girl was seriously injured. most likely Kris fell from the monkey bridge and Lisanne hurt herself badly scrambling down the rocky embankment to help Kris. the foil represents the locations of the girls at the time the photo was taken. and the pebble is an attempt to describe the location of the bolder upon which the diagram was placed. imo this was done by Lisanne who was most likely borderline delirious in the moment. a guy i knew many years ago got drunk with a friend and wrecked his car late at night on a remote road. the car flipped on its side into a ditch. instead of leaving a written message, the two incoherent men drew pictures of themselves on a piece of paper and left the drawing in the car, imagining it would clearly identify to everyone who owned the car. people sometimes can't write or type under duress, but they can still make an image. we can speculate the girls hiked down the backside of the mountain in order to avoid someone they were afraid of, etc. but the only KNOWN danger in their path was the potentially deadly monkey bridge. how many people have died throughout history on monkey bridges? we may never know but the answer is mostly likely A LOT