I’ve had the 2020 f750gs (with taller screen) for a year and covered over 40000kms fault free on all my rides around Australia and Tasmania. I can’t agree with you more, it’s a great comfortable bike with plenty of punch.
Hi John - I’m looking at this model at the moment. How is it 2 up? My wife and I are looking at some trips around Tassie and NSW so seeking your advice! Cheers - J.D.
There is undoubtedly something about these mid-size adventure bikes that makes you just want to keep going - the comfort, the enjoyment (I think they're more rewarding to ride in the real world than the bigger ones because you're using more of what's available) and their relaxed nature. Hot grips, hand guards, sort out a screen that suits you and off you go...
You are right Mark I took your word and purchased a new BMW f750 GS . I used to have Tiger 800 for 6 years and planning to buy the new Tiger 900 but when I saw your testing of BMW 750 GS you like it. I purchased the BMW 750 GS I noticed this after riding the bike I prefer the handling and engine performance . Everything is perfect on the BWM it is a well developed and researched bike, well done BMW and thanks Mark for yr advise . Abdulaziz from Bahrain 🇧🇭.
Really enjoying your recent deluge of road tests, concise, well structured, relevant and enjoyable. Another addition to my must sees when notification pings👍
@@markpulling12 Actually no snow today in my part of Scotland but bitterly cold and stayed below zero all day so four wheels for commute today also no heated grips
Great review Mark - very informative and factual with no-nonsense reporting throughout. Good to see things like top-gear acceleration tests in there too. Thanks for helping me make my mind up that this is the bike for me. I'm going for the 40th anniversary one - looks great and has a couple of extras. Keep up the good work !
Thanks Sam ,these are great bkes the 750 which is 850 , has more punch than it's 77 hp let's you believe,they do a low suspension version in the 750 All the best mark
Nice review of the f750, wish they would call it r850gs. It’s a lovely looking bike and I think it would do 65+ mpg. They certainly make some fabulous bikes. But like you say Mark what’s with the screen? Roll on summer. Thanks really enjoyable.😀
I’m 5’1” so with the low seat and low suspension that might fit me well. I would like a bike that has me sitting upright without leaning forward much. A nearby dealer has one on the floor with the low seat and suspension so I’m going to look and sit on it on Tuesday. Great review as always!
Hi friend ... Can you do a test drive on the Honda NC750X .. and say what you think for this motorcycle ... And what's better .. The Honda or the BMW...thank you very much
wat about ---- windscreen can be biger??? how is in the city trafic?? temperature go up fast??? how tires in the offroad?? you can make many test drive then giv 5 stars
test drove it and loved the bike, all except the seat, hard, awful. I am considering this and Tiger, and lean to Tiger on comfort. I want to travel 400 miles a day without butt pain. Any suggestions on BMW seat would be appreciated. Your friend in South Carolina
Ride them both back to back ! The triple is a gorgeous engine, but the Tiger is “long in the tooth” and the BMW techno’s years ahead! Both would make a fantastic ownership proposal though.
Brits don't know what snow is. That's a dusting; we got 32" in one fall a few years ago - after a one day clean up the roads were clear in 24 hours. Good review though! Best, Pete.
I was very interested in that nice interesting bike to upgrade my CB500X but now i think i will wait for reviews on my new love at first sight : Moto Guzzi V85TT 2019. I dont understand why BMW make ridiculous windscreen on their GS & why they call it A 750 when its a 850; its a kind of turn off.
Just out of interest, would you prefer this BMW or the Tiger 800 XRT? I can't decide between them at the moment, as they both have their pros and cons. I know the Triumph has more power but that isn't too important to me these days. As for the windscreen, full size versions are available from Wunderlich and Givi. As I read it, BMW chose to fit the small screen as this machine is intended for less experienced riders that can't cope with full size ones! Ah well, whatever, but it would be the first modification I would do if I bought it.
Hi I see the xrt starts at £12200 ,and the sport BMW is arround £10 k ,I've always loved the triple triumph engine and that would normally have been what I'd choose but tbh I was so impressed with the low down pull of the BMW 850 and it's smoothness I'd probably by a small margin choose the BMW thanks Mark
@@applecorp Yes, I know the Tiger is a fantastic bike, especially with that triple engine, but if you try the BMW as well, and I don't know if you have, you'll know it's a close call between them. As I said, they both have their pros and cons, but the BMW has a quick shifter, which isn't essential admittedly but is great fun, but it also has cornering ABS, which would have saved me a lot of grief a few years ago, and that is the reason I'm favouring the BMW. Cornering ABS is the deal maker for me at the moment, and the Triumph doesn't offer that option. It's as simple as that. I may never need it, but it will be there if I do. Ride safe and if you buy the Tiger, enjoy it, as I'm sure you will.
@@applecorp I have ridden them both in the USA. I prefer the Tiger 800. Freeway speeds of 80+mph...the Tiger pulls strong and overtakes other traffic much faster than the BMW which is lacking at that speed. But both are beautiful bikes & the nod goes to which one does the necessary things for the rider.
@@markpulling12 The Tiger XRT comes with all the extras in that price. Heated grips and seat, cruise control, a fantastic screen on the new model, adjustable suspension, rider modes etc. The BMW costs something like £11k with the extras, and that's without a touring capable screen or adjustable forks. Add in a new screen and a cartridge kit and you're at the same price as the Tiger XRT.
I ride a Tracer 900 GT and love it, wondering how’s the 750 engine is at highway speeds and acceleration? Can you pull away in a hurry? I’m also disappointed the shaft drive is only in the 1250 GS. Chain maintenance is a pain especially if you rack up a lot of kms quickly
Hi the GS 750 is actually the 850 engine ( I Know strange isn't it ,,) It has 77 hp but has the torque of your tracer so it's very impressive and pull away quickly Cheers mark
How feels the low seat ?? Is enough comf? I will receive mine next week but I’m 1.74cm , but don’t know which one to choose , would be great your thoughts , thx !!
Hi reg ,hard choice because I love the vstrom ,but let's say we're talking about the base BMW at £8000 ,id just go for the f750 because of it's amazing engine and overall nice GS feel after I'd changed that silly small screen though ! All the best mark
I know this review is 2 years old but wanted to make 2 comments. 1, if you are not on a long tour I found the wind screen OK, a little breeze can be welcome. And 2, I found the stock seat horrible and would not take delivery without an aftermarket seat,probably sergeant. Otherwise, really enjoyed the ride.
Hi leon ,ive ridden about 500 miles on this bmw and love it ,it may have only 80ish hp but has amazing torque so it feels alot more,i think a full spec f750 comes in quite alot cheaper than a new tiger xrt,so its better value imo,just get a bigger screen for the bmw as its stupid small,the tiger is amazing to ride but for me id get the bmw to save quite alot of money all the best mark
Hi Nick tough choice as they are both 5 star ⭐ bikes ... id personally go for something like a mint 5 year old BMW and save a fortune...the triumph is amazing but some people don't like the vibes from tbe new engine Cheers mark
I rode the 660, the Tracer, and the F750 is a much better bike. Off-road, on-road, loads of torque, a gorgeous bike with loads of fun to motor around. The 3-year warranty is a fine thing, too
looks great as a second bike ,kind of a ride in all weather machine and keep your other for best ,its a honda so it should be 100% reliable all the best MP
I was a huge fan of the old F650GS F700GS and F850GS ... and so sad to see the Rotax engine get kicked into the long grass by a flipping Chinese Loncin unit ! Oh well... I accept that this bike is an improvement
@@trailblazeratv6306 I’d never buy one ! The Chinese people are ok , but I despise the CCP. I own an R1250GS. If they move production on the boxer to China it will be my last.
Hi colin ...the vstrom is brilliant ..i owned a 14 reg for a while and loved it...however the bmw ...is pricier but at around £10k for the sport model you get a fully loaded bike tft..cruise quickshifter etc...end the engine has loads more pull...id go with the bmw cheers mark
I am tortured. Trying to decide between a tiger 900 and this bike. The bmw comes fully loaded with tech for $13,500 US. A tiger with same is thousands more. But the tiger seems nicer and maybe worth the extra price.
hi yes it is here is an example for you www.bmwlouisville.com/New-Inventory-2019-BMW-Motorcycle-Scooter-F-750-GS-Stereo-Metallic-Matte-Premium-BMW-Motorcycles-of-Louisville-6658259?ref=list
Thanks for your nice review, Mark. I really like your videos, but if I may make a comment on them, could you possibly get the wind noise out of the mike? The F750GS is a nice bike, but I have a number of criticisms about it: a) It's too heavy. 227kilos is too much for a bike of this power, regardless of the good torque. You'll feel it when manoeuvering in town or traffic. b) It's too expensive. The price tag with all the extras is so high that it climbs into territory where it is utterly outclassed by its competitors. With no extras, it's still more expensive than a Tracer 700 while weighing some 30 kilos more. c)At this price, BMW could really have included adjustable forks. The Tracer 700 costs less even with a fork cartridge kit from Andreani! I feel BMW has gone one step forward and two steps back with this bike compared to the old F700GS model, which sold very well as a beginners bike.
Thanks for the comment disek ! ive got a new mic now ,so ill experiment with positions for it ref wind noise,yes i was very impressed with the tracer 700 see my review on it all the best mark
@@markpulling12 I suppose the 750gs is more versatile and maybe more premium. Easier to tour with. in terms of everyday use urban environment and commuting? I rode the Street Scrambler for half an hour and felt so tiny...very manageable and turning circle inside the safety lane is doable...I think the Street Scrambler has more character although it's not air cooled. with the vance and hines exhaust all you wanna do is find an excuse to go riding...
@@alpap1980 yes that's it pretty much the BMW is more versatile and feels bigger and I really like the way the engine pulls plus here in the UK it's well priced for the level of spec you get :)
the bmw is heavier but handles its weight better ....the bmw is def the one id go for it has a brilliant engine....very well equiped for the money all the best mark
Hi Gary ,value I'd go versys ,it's very comfy and nice engine ,but out of all you mentioned id go for the BMW ,an all round brilliant bike ,feels alot more powerful than it is , great suspension all the best mark
I’ve had the 2020 f750gs (with taller screen) for a year and covered over 40000kms fault free on all my rides around Australia and Tasmania.
I can’t agree with you more, it’s a great comfortable bike with plenty of punch.
Thanks John great to hear it's going well 😊
Hi John - I’m looking at this model at the moment. How is it 2 up? My wife and I are looking at some trips around Tassie and NSW so seeking your advice! Cheers - J.D.
There is undoubtedly something about these mid-size adventure bikes that makes you just want to keep going - the comfort, the enjoyment (I think they're more rewarding to ride in the real world than the bigger ones because you're using more of what's available) and their relaxed nature. Hot grips, hand guards, sort out a screen that suits you and off you go...
Ordered mine today, the quickshifter and autoblipper is brilliant. The engine sounds unlike any older BMW. BMW got this one SO right!!!
You are right Mark I took your word and purchased a new BMW f750 GS
. I used to have Tiger 800 for 6 years and planning to buy the new Tiger 900 but when I saw your testing of BMW 750 GS you like it. I purchased the BMW 750 GS I noticed this after riding the bike I prefer the handling and engine performance . Everything is perfect on the BWM it is a well developed and researched bike, well done BMW and thanks Mark for yr advise . Abdulaziz from Bahrain 🇧🇭.
Hi abdul thanks yes great choice ...glad you like the bmw :)
👍🙏
I had the tiger 800 and found it very top heavy. The BM is about the same weight but feels lighter
Really enjoying your recent deluge of road tests, concise, well structured, relevant and enjoyable. Another addition to my must sees when notification pings👍
Thanks Graham , great ride today but was cold
@@markpulling12 Actually no snow today in my part of Scotland but bitterly cold and stayed below zero all day so four wheels for commute today also no heated grips
Great review Mark - very informative and factual with no-nonsense reporting throughout. Good to see things like top-gear acceleration tests in there too. Thanks for helping me make my mind up that this is the bike for me. I'm going for the 40th anniversary one - looks great and has a couple of extras. Keep up the good work !
Thanks Johnny ....yes these are brilliant ....they feel alot more powerful than they are due to the 850 cc torque !
Cheers mark
So glad your back again, great review as always
Looks like a great bike, up and down quick shifter too! thanks for the review Mark 👍
Hi Dave I was really impressed how nice it rode ,reminded me of a r1200gs
Thanks for the video. So far, I was thinking it is 750cc; planning to buy 850gs and lower it to 820mm, as I am 5’6”.
Thanks Sam ,these are great bkes the 750 which is 850 , has more punch than it's 77 hp let's you believe,they do a low suspension version in the 750 All the best mark
Nice review of the f750, wish they would call it r850gs. It’s a lovely looking bike and I think it would do 65+ mpg. They certainly make some fabulous bikes. But like you say Mark what’s with the screen? Roll on summer. Thanks really enjoyable.😀
Thanks Stuart I really copped it with the weather today ,bike said 57mpg when I got back but I could have easily got more all the best mp
The screen is awesome, I have one with 1500k. on it, screen is perfect
Nice bike, but like the tiger 800, very top heavy which is felt when moving around the garage etc
hi Marc ~ excellent video review, insights (never heard length of swing-arm affects feeling of stability) Thanks
No worries glad you enjoyed the vid all the best MP
I’m 5’1” so with the low seat and low suspension that might fit me well. I would like a bike that has me sitting upright without leaning forward much. A nearby dealer has one on the floor with the low seat and suspension so I’m going to look and sit on it on Tuesday. Great review as always!
Thanks Brian yes I think this would fit you ... great engine on these
Regards mark
Mark good review as usual! Come the summer that small screen may come into its own, no buffeting and helmet in clean air.
Yes good point John , can't wait for summer warm roads now !!
Keep up with the real world motorcycles, sports bikes in last 20 have been done to death.
@@markpulling12 What year is this particular bike in the review?
@@albertsanchez8007 hi it's 2020
Hi friend ... Can you do a test drive on the Honda NC750X .. and say what you think for this motorcycle ... And what's better .. The Honda or the BMW...thank you very much
wat about ---- windscreen can be biger??? how is in the city trafic?? temperature go up fast??? how tires in the offroad?? you can make many test drive then giv 5 stars
test drove it and loved the bike, all except the seat, hard, awful. I am considering this and Tiger, and lean to Tiger on comfort. I want to travel 400 miles a day without butt pain. Any suggestions on BMW seat would be appreciated.
Your friend in South Carolina
Would be interested to know how the more expensive F750GS compares to the 2019 Tiger 800 xr versions ?
Ride them both back to back ! The triple is a gorgeous engine, but the Tiger is “long in the tooth” and the BMW techno’s years ahead! Both would make a fantastic ownership proposal though.
Brits don't know what snow is. That's a dusting; we got 32" in one fall a few years ago - after a one day clean up the roads were clear in 24 hours. Good review though! Best, Pete.
Great review mark, as always! Just one small notice! Please speak a bit slower for us not English people, thanks in advance
Thanks for the feedback Harris ...will do .. :)
I was very interested in that nice interesting bike to upgrade my CB500X but now i think i will wait for reviews on my new love at first sight : Moto Guzzi V85TT 2019. I dont understand why BMW make ridiculous windscreen on their GS & why they call it A 750 when its a 850; its a kind of turn off.
Just ride the bike, see if it works for you.
It’s been de-tuned for more torque ( off the line speed) but it could be tuned again to access that complete 94 HP I’m sure
Thank you very much for the excellent review! Well done!
Thanks kenneth....yes these are great bikes :)
Regards mark
Hi Marc, nice video, thanks.
Hi frank ,thanks all the best MP
Great Bike and Great review :)
Just out of interest, would you prefer this BMW or the Tiger 800 XRT? I can't decide between them at the moment, as they both have their pros and cons. I know the Triumph has more power but that isn't too important to me these days.
As for the windscreen, full size versions are available from Wunderlich and Givi. As I read it, BMW chose to fit the small screen as this machine is intended for less experienced riders that can't cope with full size ones! Ah well, whatever, but it would be the first modification I would do if I bought it.
Hi I see the xrt starts at £12200 ,and the sport BMW is arround £10 k ,I've always loved the triple triumph engine and that would normally have been what I'd choose but tbh I was so impressed with the low down pull of the BMW 850 and it's smoothness I'd probably by a small margin choose the BMW thanks Mark
@@markpulling12 Thanks for the reply. I am favouring the BMW but it is close, I agree.
@@applecorp Yes, I know the Tiger is a fantastic bike, especially with that triple engine, but if you try the BMW as well, and I don't know if you have, you'll know it's a close call between them.
As I said, they both have their pros and cons, but the BMW has a quick shifter, which isn't essential admittedly but is great fun, but it also has cornering ABS, which would have saved me a lot of grief a few years ago, and that is the reason I'm favouring the BMW.
Cornering ABS is the deal maker for me at the moment, and the Triumph doesn't offer that option.
It's as simple as that. I may never need it, but it will be there if I do.
Ride safe and if you buy the Tiger, enjoy it, as I'm sure you will.
@@applecorp I have ridden them both in the USA. I prefer the Tiger 800. Freeway speeds of 80+mph...the Tiger pulls strong and overtakes other traffic much faster than the BMW which is lacking at that speed. But both are beautiful bikes & the nod goes to which one does the necessary things for the rider.
@@markpulling12 The Tiger XRT comes with all the extras in that price. Heated grips and seat, cruise control, a fantastic screen on the new model, adjustable suspension, rider modes etc. The BMW costs something like £11k with the extras, and that's without a touring capable screen or adjustable forks. Add in a new screen and a cartridge kit and you're at the same price as the Tiger XRT.
Ace review!!! You are keeping a good pace with the videos, thanks.
Have you thought about trying the gsx s750 and the z900?
Hi ,ill try and add those to the list ,im sure the gsx is available at least to demo at my local dealer ,all the best MP
I ride a Tracer 900 GT and love it, wondering how’s the 750 engine is at highway speeds and acceleration? Can you pull away in a hurry? I’m also disappointed the shaft drive is only in the 1250 GS. Chain maintenance is a pain especially if you rack up a lot of kms quickly
Hi the GS 750 is actually the 850 engine ( I Know strange isn't it ,,)
It has 77 hp but has the torque of your tracer so it's very impressive and pull away quickly
Cheers mark
Nice review.
Adventure touring bike with a screen off an Mt07 what are BMW thinking.
I know frank ,big slap on wrist for bmw ,everybody is noting this problem
I live in Portugal- small screens are better in warm climes !
How feels the low seat ?? Is enough comf? I will receive mine next week but I’m 1.74cm , but don’t know which one to choose , would be great your thoughts , thx !!
Hi ive ridden the low seat version quite alot recently and it feels fine to me :) all the best mark
mark pulling thanks dude, greetings from Mexico !
hi mark,love my sport bike but age is creeping up.which one? v strom 650 or bmw 750,your cash. thanks
Hi reg ,hard choice because I love the vstrom ,but let's say we're talking about the base BMW at £8000 ,id just go for the f750 because of it's amazing engine and overall nice GS feel after I'd changed that silly small screen though ! All the best mark
Really like this bike, was thinking Tiger 800 but then I saw the screen on the BMW. Oh dear... A naked tourer?
Haha yes what were BMW thinking ?!!
Personally I have ridden these quite a bit and I think they are fantastic all the best mark
I know this review is 2 years old but wanted to make 2 comments. 1, if you are not on a long tour I found the wind screen OK, a little breeze can be welcome. And 2, I found the stock seat horrible and would not take delivery without an aftermarket seat,probably sergeant. Otherwise, really enjoyed the ride.
Thanks for the comment george ...yes I enjoy the 750 GS...they are currently £8699 for the base model which is good value
Regards mark
I'm 6'2 do you think this would be a comfortable ride ?
I really can decide between this and the Triumph tiger 800 XRT/XCA. What are your thoughts?
Hi leon ,ive ridden about 500 miles on this bmw and love it ,it may have only 80ish hp but has amazing torque so it feels alot more,i think a full spec f750 comes in quite alot cheaper than a new tiger xrt,so its better value imo,just get a bigger screen for the bmw as its stupid small,the tiger is amazing to ride but for me id get the bmw to save quite alot of money all the best mark
@@markpulling12 thank you.
Given the choice mark - this or a tiger 900 GT PRO?
Hi Nick tough choice as they are both 5 star ⭐ bikes ... id personally go for something like a mint 5 year old BMW and save a fortune...the triumph is amazing but some people don't like the vibes from tbe new engine
Cheers mark
I rode the 660, the Tracer, and the F750 is a much better bike. Off-road, on-road, loads of torque, a gorgeous bike with loads of fun to motor around. The 3-year warranty is a fine thing, too
I'm thinking of buying a second bike a Honda crf250l, what do you think of it?
looks great as a second bike ,kind of a ride in all weather machine and keep your other for best ,its a honda so it should be 100% reliable all the best MP
I was a huge fan of the old F650GS F700GS and F850GS ... and so sad to see the Rotax engine get kicked into the long grass by a flipping Chinese Loncin unit !
Oh well... I accept that this bike is an improvement
How are they holding up ? Chinese motor ?
@@trailblazeratv6306 I’d never buy one ! The Chinese people are ok , but I despise the CCP.
I own an R1250GS. If they move production on the boxer to China it will be my last.
That small exhaust looks like the Suzuki vstrom exhaust..puny!
Just subscribed 😀👌
Nice review Mark. How does this compare to the V Strom 650?
Hi colin ...the vstrom is brilliant ..i owned a 14 reg for a while and loved it...however the bmw ...is pricier but at around £10k for the sport model you get a fully loaded bike tft..cruise quickshifter etc...end the engine has loads more pull...id go with the bmw cheers mark
Thanks Mark.
Is this bike still buyable for road trips in 2020 when compared with tiger xrx?
Oh yes it's just as good as the tiger xrx in my opinion also consider the new 900xr All the best mark
I am tortured. Trying to decide between a tiger 900 and this bike. The bmw comes fully loaded with tech for $13,500 US. A tiger with same is thousands more. But the tiger seems nicer and maybe worth the extra price.
Is this available in the USA? How much does it cost in US dollars?
hi yes it is here is an example for you
www.bmwlouisville.com/New-Inventory-2019-BMW-Motorcycle-Scooter-F-750-GS-Stereo-Metallic-Matte-Premium-BMW-Motorcycles-of-Louisville-6658259?ref=list
Thanks for your nice review, Mark. I really like your videos, but if I may make a comment on them, could you possibly get the wind noise out of the mike? The F750GS is a nice bike, but I have a number of criticisms about it: a) It's too heavy. 227kilos is too much for a bike of this power, regardless of the good torque. You'll feel it when manoeuvering in town or traffic. b) It's too expensive. The price tag with all the extras is so high that it climbs into territory where it is utterly outclassed by its competitors. With no extras, it's still more expensive than a Tracer 700 while weighing some 30 kilos more. c)At this price, BMW could really have included adjustable forks. The Tracer 700 costs less even with a fork cartridge kit from Andreani! I feel BMW has gone one step forward and two steps back with this bike compared to the old F700GS model, which sold very well as a beginners bike.
Thanks for the comment disek ! ive got a new mic now ,so ill experiment with positions for it ref wind noise,yes i was very impressed with the tracer 700 see my review on it all the best mark
This things weights like 500 pounds how is it midweight
F750gs or Triumph Street Scrambler?
Tricky choice as they are both great.but different styles of bikes ...but I'd get the BMW 750 GS :)
@@markpulling12 I suppose the 750gs is more versatile and maybe more premium. Easier to tour with. in terms of everyday use urban environment and commuting? I rode the Street Scrambler for half an hour and felt so tiny...very manageable and turning circle inside the safety lane is doable...I think the Street Scrambler has more character although it's not air cooled. with the vance and hines exhaust all you wanna do is find an excuse to go riding...
@@alpap1980 yes that's it pretty much the BMW is more versatile and feels bigger and I really like the way the engine pulls plus here in the UK it's well priced for the level of spec you get :)
BMW F750GS 👍😎
Nice windscreen
versys 650 hvala
weight management and maneuverability compared to the Tenere 700?
the bmw is heavier but handles its weight better ....the bmw is def the one id go for it has a brilliant engine....very well equiped for the money all the best mark
@@markpulling12 thank you. Must book a test ride.
Looks a very comfortable sit in bike rather than sit on bike........nice!
HELP! This bike £9200, or Crossrunner £9000, or Versys 650 £7000, or Tracer 700 GT £7200 (all prices approx) thoughts anyone???
Hi Gary ,value I'd go versys ,it's very comfy and nice engine ,but out of all you mentioned id go for the BMW ,an all round brilliant bike ,feels alot more powerful than it is , great suspension all the best mark
@@markpulling12 Hey thanks Mark. I must admit, I'm in love with the GS. Appreciate your input, watch all your videos. cheers.
@@markpulling12 Bought it today :)
@@GJS-live brilliant you're going to love it ,I have ridden one quite a lot lately , great choice 👍
@@markpulling12 why no shaft drive bikes in this CC class ? i find it annoying keep doing chain maintenance