Thanks so much for posting this video! It was a big help in getting my C-3 working. One of the commenters mentioned a write-up of notes on the C-3 and I found it to be amazingly detailed. I haven't decided how much of that advice to work through -- I have a C-2 waiting for me to fix next.
I have one of those testers and I spent hours trying to figure out why the eye would almost close, with nothing connected to the test terminals, when I would rotate the switch to the leakage position. I finally determined that the Normal/Leakage switch had something causing a high resistance short between some of the connectors. A Q-tip and alcohol cleared up the problem. It was something I had never seen before but now I know it can happen. As a relative amateur at this, I tend to just replace the old paper caps. I have seen enough of them fail that I really don't want to have to troubleshoot a failing capacitor if I don't have to.
Ok I finally caved in and bought a Heathkit C-3 condenser Checker. I also have 4 other types of Cap testers as well. Nothing will be scale me now. The only reason I bought it was the lure and hypnotic gaze of the EYE tube. As the normal person looks at my bench its the EYE that catches their attention. The C3 is quite a lesson on electronics and E math. Once upon a time instruments like the C3 is all we had. Capacitors were a mysterious world. Testing them was only available with expensive and cumbersome LCR bridges. The bridges let you and others that you were a scientist.
Son of a gun, I came to check out what you had to say about my C-3, and there on your bench are the same Heath VTVM, HP RMS Voltmeter, and SG81 signal generator that are on my bench. Cheers from the State of Maine.
I just finished up restoring my C-3 C tester and it works super. I used a myriad of components to achieve the required precision values , using what I had available. Then I placed an order for exacting components. In sealed off the gap around the 1629 EYE for esthetics.
I just bought a C-3 for restoration and watched your video. I just LOVED the story about your 1000 mark German bank note! This is to me, exactly what makes watching everyone's posts fun and especially interesting. Take care Jim :)
Thats a pretty good device so I am learning. I like the leakage tester theory. I did bread board one like that some years ago. I like heathkit construction. Many of their employees were HAM operators. It was believed they were the best people to hire at the factory and research center. That eye tube is an expensive tube to replace. Tsk tsk Time to recap it James!
Some notes: The first thing I'd have done is install a 3-wire power cord; safety/Earth lead to chassis AND A FUSE. Next, install agency approved or "y" capacitors hot lead to chassis and neutral lead to chassis. Makes us safe and provides RF bypassing for the line power input. Except for the "domino" 200pF mica (do test that one), replace ALL of the caps as a matter of course: this a test instrument, not a table radio.. ;-) That "Dearborn" 2uF capacitor Jim installed is a GEM! A *PERFECT* fit there. That beast is a COMMERCIAL MIL SPEC grade hermetically sealed (glass-to-metal) foil/plastic. That cap is in the bridge when either of the highest TWO capacitance ranges are selected. Those are the ONLY ranges where the "power factor" control has any effect. The bridge operates with AC current, that's why the big honkin' 2uF cap is non-polarized. (don't use "non-polarized electrolytic" caps in the AC bridge! Bad juju...) The 22k resistor string: just the voltage divider for the DC leakage test. Values NOT critical; +/- 20% Tol. will do. . Good to see the gal get some TLC!
After reading the Ken Gordon notes on this and troubleshooting mine after it had worked great after a rebuild, I realized I had fried the main 10k pot like he explained. Letting the leakage knob spring back on big caps without turning control all the way to the left shunts the cap charge through the wire wound resistor. Mine was burnt off the nichrome wire on the left lug. Won’t do that again. Manual says nothing of it either. Ordered two new ones for $20 on EBay. Might be and issue on your too. Mine was dead on before this happened.
I have come to the conclusion that "Electronics" type people to a high percentage are also "CAT" people. We just spent $6000.00 + because of a "Hair Ball" blocking our little girl cat's intestines. In my younger days, I would of spent 25 cents for a 22 cal bullet to end her pain. Just hope we don't have to make that choice again, as being just retired, don't know how we could afford it. Thanks for your videos, enjoy them. Carl
Replace the line cord with a 3 wire grounded plug Jim. Add a X2 and Y2 capacitor in the right places and after replacing the old wax capacitors and checking resistors you are good to go. The 22K and 10K resistors on the voltage divider switch ,if you wish , could be replaced with 1 or 2 watt precision resistors but not critical to do so.👍🏻
That switch's ring of charted 22Kohm resisters all measure at close to 24Kohm each in the manufactured box. It is quite possible that it is not the exact resistance (within limits) of them, but that they are all CLOSE TO EQUAL in that switch so that rotating the switch does not change a given offset from the exact nominal desired value, which was, if needed, compensated for in some other portion of the circuitry at one or more key points. Perhaps the person building the box had no measured 22Kohm resistors but a pile of 24Kohm resisters (as measured) and used them rather than going out and spending money and time to get resisters close to the spec 22Kohm value. Note that 10%-spec resisters of 22Kohm size allow for a 24Kohm value and still be barely within spec. Some designs may have an interesting history of changes made to the original concept, anyway.
Funny, I was working on mine tonight. Not working good either. Worked great after I rebuilt it about a year ago and it was working perfectly, now it's acting up. I was watching your Conar signal tracer video Jim, I think you would love one of the Brymen meters like the BM829s. Let’s you see AC content on a DC signal. These are some of the best meters out there with Fluke features and robustness at a third the price. I’ve bought two of them from TME in Poland and had them at my door in 3 or 4 days. The 829 is going for $159 USD right now. Killer meters, I have the 869s, 525s and the EEVBLOG BM235. All very accurate and every bit as good as my Fluke 189. www.tme.eu/en/details/bm829/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm829s/
I did not know about the German hyper-inflation but Zimbabwe had a very serious hyper-inflation problem which has settled in recent years. I have friends who used to travel to Zimbabwe fairly regularly (maybe 6-7 times a year.) They would routinely carry several trillion dollars with them (Zimbabwe money) which would expire before they returned on the next trip. The inflation was so bad you could go to a restaurant one day, buy a sandwich and pay half-a-million then return to that same place the next day and pay a million for the same sandwich. The highest official inflation Zimbabwe experienced was, get ready: 231,150,888.87%.
I think the truth is that all currencies loose value over time because of the banking system that creates money out of nothing then loans it out with interest. There is nothing stable or sustainable about the world's banking systems. Everyone should learn 'where money comes from'. Google that!
The only useful circuit is the leakage test circuitry. One could build a simple box with external ammeter to accomplish that. All of this testing and in the end you still have to change the part. You certainly waste a lot of time testing. Inreakize it might give one a better understanding of whats going on.
I read Ken's notes. Now I'm thinking I need to do a little more with the tracer. Ken has been through many C-3 tracers so he has gained excellent experience with them and has been kind enough to share his findings on the internet. Thanks for highlighting Ken's notes!
@@JimsRadioShop No problem, Jim. I am just glad I could help. Thats why I'm around for what little I can contribute. Anxiously waiting for more. Thanks Jim.
After reading this Notes on C3 I think I've cooked my main control pot by discharging large caps without turning it full C-clockwise. Never knew that had to be done. Rebuilt it a year ago and was working perfect. Now it will not read cap or resistor values even close. Looks like a wire wound 10k pot will be on order. @@gbowne1
Thanks so much for posting this video! It was a big help in getting my C-3 working. One of the commenters mentioned a write-up of notes on the C-3 and I found it to be amazingly detailed. I haven't decided how much of that advice to work through -- I have a C-2 waiting for me to fix next.
I have one of those testers and I spent hours trying to figure out why the eye would almost close, with nothing connected to the test terminals, when I would rotate the switch to the leakage position. I finally determined that the Normal/Leakage switch had something causing a high resistance short between some of the connectors. A Q-tip and alcohol cleared up the problem. It was something I had never seen before but now I know it can happen. As a relative amateur at this, I tend to just replace the old paper caps. I have seen enough of them fail that I really don't want to have to troubleshoot a failing capacitor if I don't have to.
Ok I finally caved in and bought a Heathkit C-3 condenser Checker. I also have 4 other types of Cap testers as well. Nothing will be scale me now. The only reason I bought it was the lure and hypnotic gaze of the EYE tube. As the normal person looks at my bench its the EYE that catches their attention. The C3 is quite a lesson on electronics and E math. Once upon a time instruments like the C3 is all we had. Capacitors were a mysterious world. Testing them was only available with expensive and cumbersome LCR bridges. The bridges let you and others that you were a scientist.
Son of a gun, I came to check out what you had to say about my C-3, and there on your bench are the same Heath VTVM, HP RMS Voltmeter, and SG81 signal generator that are on my bench. Cheers from the State of Maine.
I just finished up restoring my C-3 C tester and it works super. I used a myriad of components to achieve the required precision values , using what I had available. Then I placed an order for exacting components. In sealed off the gap around the 1629 EYE for esthetics.
I just bought a C-3 for restoration and watched your video. I just LOVED the story about your 1000 mark German bank note! This is to me, exactly what makes watching everyone's posts fun and especially interesting. Take care Jim :)
It certainly looks like more fun and easier than an AM radio.
Excellent process for changing out the components Jim. I've just bought the exact unit you have. I'll be following your method. :)
Thats a pretty good device so I am learning. I like the leakage tester theory. I did bread board one like that some years ago. I like heathkit construction. Many of their employees were HAM operators. It was believed they were the best people to hire at the factory and research center.
That eye tube is an expensive tube to replace. Tsk tsk Time to recap it James!
Some notes:
The first thing I'd have done is install a 3-wire power cord; safety/Earth lead to chassis AND A FUSE. Next, install agency approved or "y" capacitors hot lead to chassis and neutral lead to chassis. Makes us safe and provides RF bypassing for the line power input.
Except for the "domino" 200pF mica (do test that one), replace ALL of the caps as a matter of course: this a test instrument, not a table radio.. ;-) That "Dearborn" 2uF capacitor Jim installed is a GEM! A *PERFECT* fit there. That beast is a COMMERCIAL MIL SPEC grade hermetically sealed (glass-to-metal) foil/plastic. That cap is in the bridge when either of the highest TWO capacitance ranges are selected. Those are the ONLY ranges where the "power factor" control has any effect.
The bridge operates with AC current, that's why the big honkin' 2uF cap is non-polarized. (don't use "non-polarized electrolytic" caps in the AC bridge! Bad juju...)
The 22k resistor string: just the voltage divider for the DC leakage test. Values NOT critical; +/- 20% Tol. will do.
.
Good to see the gal get some TLC!
After reading the Ken Gordon notes on this and troubleshooting mine after it had worked great after a rebuild, I realized I had fried the main 10k pot like he explained. Letting the leakage knob spring back on big caps without turning control all the way to the left shunts the cap charge through the wire wound resistor. Mine was burnt off the nichrome wire on the left lug. Won’t do that again. Manual says nothing of it either. Ordered two new ones for $20 on EBay. Might be and issue on your too. Mine was dead on before this happened.
The trick with that cap you talked about is to put a service loop in it before you install it to prevent strain and afford replacement lead.
I have come to the conclusion that "Electronics" type people to a high percentage are also "CAT" people. We just spent $6000.00 + because of a "Hair Ball" blocking our little girl cat's intestines. In my younger days, I would of spent 25 cents for a 22 cal bullet to end her pain. Just hope we don't have to make that choice again, as being just retired, don't know how we could afford it. Thanks for your videos, enjoy them. Carl
You sir, are the Bob Ross of electronics! And you have the same demeanor and the same relaxing voice (-: I have to ask, have you heard this before? 😂😂
Replace the line cord with a 3 wire grounded plug Jim. Add a X2 and Y2 capacitor in the right places and after replacing the old wax capacitors and checking resistors you
are good to go. The 22K and 10K resistors on the voltage divider switch ,if you wish , could be replaced with 1 or 2 watt precision resistors but not critical to do so.👍🏻
That switch's ring of charted 22Kohm resisters all measure at close to 24Kohm each in the manufactured box. It is quite possible that it is not the exact resistance (within limits) of them, but that they are all CLOSE TO EQUAL in that switch so that rotating the switch does not change a given offset from the exact nominal desired value, which was, if needed, compensated for in some other portion of the circuitry at one or more key points. Perhaps the person building the box had no measured 22Kohm resistors but a pile of 24Kohm resisters (as measured) and used them rather than going out and spending money and time to get resisters close to the spec 22Kohm value. Note that 10%-spec resisters of 22Kohm size allow for a 24Kohm value and still be barely within spec. Some designs may have an interesting history of changes made to the original concept, anyway.
You really should check the two resistors at the 1629. If out of tolerance, they can cause the eye not to open fully or overlap when closed.
But the eye works as it is.
Funny, I was working on mine tonight. Not working good either. Worked great after I rebuilt it about a year ago and it was working perfectly, now it's acting up. I was watching your Conar signal tracer video Jim, I think you would love one of the Brymen meters like the BM829s. Let’s you see AC content on a DC signal. These are some of the best meters out there with Fluke features and robustness at a third the price. I’ve bought two of them from TME in Poland and had them at my door in 3 or 4 days. The 829 is going for $159 USD right now. Killer meters, I have the 869s, 525s and the EEVBLOG BM235. All very accurate and every bit as good as my Fluke 189. www.tme.eu/en/details/bm829/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm829s/
That unit has a power transformer and is isolated. The cap going to chassis is for RF ground.
what is make & model # of smaller newer cap tester ?
My entire bench is on a huge isolation SOLA transformer for my safety. I have a separate test setup with an isolated Variac.
I did not know about the German hyper-inflation but Zimbabwe had a very serious hyper-inflation problem which has settled in recent years.
I have friends who used to travel to Zimbabwe fairly regularly (maybe 6-7 times a year.) They would routinely carry several trillion dollars with them (Zimbabwe money) which would expire before they returned on the next trip. The inflation was so bad you could go to a restaurant one day, buy a sandwich and pay half-a-million then return to that same place the next day and pay a million for the same sandwich.
The highest official inflation Zimbabwe experienced was, get ready: 231,150,888.87%.
I think the truth is that all currencies loose value over time because of the banking system that creates money out of nothing then loans it out with interest. There is nothing stable or sustainable about the world's banking systems. Everyone should learn 'where money comes from'. Google that!
Very good
The 2i uf cap is a calibration reference part.
Yeah, no kidding. A "NanoFarad Obsession" with whoever designs these capacitor testers.
Me thinks you’ve got metal munching mice.
If a cap leaks at 300 why would one think it wont leak at 400 or 600. A leaky cap is a leaky cap is a leaky cap. Si senior?
I hope that we don't forget to solder them in or they will come lose.
Imaginary testing? Is that a new technique?
I guess I should look at mine.
Isolation transformers all around,
The only useful circuit is the leakage test circuitry. One could build a simple box with external ammeter to accomplish that. All of this testing and in the end you still have to change the part. You certainly waste a lot of time testing. Inreakize it might give one a better understanding of whats going on.
also google "Notes on the Heathkit C-3 by. Kenneth G. Gordon W 7EKB"
Thanks! Will do.
I read Ken's notes. Now I'm thinking I need to do a little more with the tracer. Ken has been through many C-3 tracers so he has gained excellent experience with them and has been kind enough to share his findings on the internet. Thanks for highlighting Ken's notes!
@@JimsRadioShop No problem, Jim. I am just glad I could help. Thats why I'm around for what little I can contribute. Anxiously waiting for more. Thanks Jim.
After reading this Notes on C3 I think I've cooked my main control pot by discharging large caps without turning it full C-clockwise. Never knew that had to be done. Rebuilt it a year ago and was working perfect. Now it will not read cap or resistor values even close. Looks like a wire wound 10k pot will be on order. @@gbowne1
Its more like you have leaky power filters to me.
Boa tarde a todos, eu também tenho um e tenho interesse em vender .
There is no real reason to discharge a cap. Just carefully take it off and toss it to the tech at the opposite bench and yells heads up.
There is no question about the caps. Change them now! You should not even be using it like that.
At
That white cap is a very cheap Japanese cap.
These C testers certainly are overpriced. Its insane! Who are the fools buying them. Is there some status in owning one?