So Innuos has asked me if I would be interested to review the ZENMINI MK3 1TB. That is their entry model that is around $1250 with a built-in DAC. Let me know if there is an interest and I will ask them to send me. If not a lot of people are interested, I will pass on it. I forgot to thank James in this video who reached out to Innuos asking them to send me this unit. Finally if you gave the golden CD for the McIntosh ms300, plz let me know.
I have tried the zen, zenith by itself and with the Phoenix USB reclocker. With every step the sound improves dramatically in my system. Granted I have a very highly resolving system. The improvement in power to the system is what makes the sound better with each upgraded model in the Innuos line. I ended up ordering the Statement that is scheduled to arrive this week.
One thing to note for anyone looking to demo these streamers, make sure to give it at least 250 hours of burn-in. Also switching out the power cord to a quality cable improves the sound further.
Great review Thomas! I owned the Zen MkII and sold it before I moved recently. It was probably the only piece of equipment that I was emotionally attached to. I don't know why, it's a computer. But it did make every DAC I tried it with sound better. PS. I tried the Zen Mini MkII and actually bought the Zen II blind because it bested a Bryston BDP-2 in an A/B test. They are great. And I build my own gaming/editing computers and still bought one.
Thomas , I didn’t hear you comment on the inbuilt streamer in this great product. It’s enabled with Tidal and Qobuz direct service and is Roon ready for subscribers to use effortlessly. Additionally, the USB connection to a DAC is galvanically isolated , and the Ethernet outlet is exceptional. Roger
Thomas, just an update on the ZEN. After about 300 hours of use, the unit opened up, and on AB comparison I cannot notice any difference between the CD and the WAV ripped discs on the Innuos.👍
I bought a used Innuos Zenith recently. I'm blown away by how great it sounds!! I never expected such a large improvement. From my experience, it's worth every penny. --system: Zenith (usb out) > Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE dac > Linear Tube Audio integrated amplifier -- previous streaming setup: Audirvana Software (UPnP out) > IFi Zen Stream (with S-Booster LPS). [BTW, Audirvana really improves the Zen Stream] -- I'm streaming local files and Tidal using the Innuos Sense app. Compared to my previous streaming setup the sound has improved by The music is just "popping" out of thin air. There's more texture, clarity & spaciousness. It's so musical -- not analytical. BTW, the Innuos Sense app is really good. The Innuos "server" will also stream (output) to any UpnP endpoint. Legacy Squeezebox or Sonos renderers too.
Thomas Thanks. Even though 3 years back this was a very important review for me. My conclusion: the digital source is ABSOLUTELY underrated in impact of sound quality. Why comparing DACs if this is not fixed?
Glad to see you looking at servers as I try to determine whether something off the shelf might be better in various ways than something I might try to assemble myself. The whole computer music scene has turned into a rat's nest with a dizzying array of products and an equally dizzying slate of claims. And, OF COURSE, the prices keep getting higher. sigh. So, all attempts at clearing away some of the smoke are appreciated. Just try to hold on to your sanity as you tread this treacherous path. :)
I was content with my Zenmini Mk2 (w/o LPSU), but recently came across a steal of a deal for a used Zenith Mk2. The Zenith definitely wins out with blacker backgrounds, better timing, more powerful and articulate bass, and realistic tone. The user experience also takes a step up if you use it with Roon. I’d imagine the Zenmini w/ LPSU comes close though.
Hi Thomas, I purchased this Innuos unit six months ago. It's beautiful with no issues. I use a LAN connector from my modem to the unit and then USB plugged into my Mcintosh C2600 preamp with a built in dac. I believe it's not wifi compatible meaning you need a LAN connection. It streams and ripps beautifully using a free IPeng 9 remote app for windows. I can't comment on comparisons with cd transports or players but it's simple and flexible system. Thanks for all videos and support. Dave from Montreal
People out there rely on these reviews, they don't always have the opportunity to listen to these components. I'm fortunate that I live in a city with lots of audio stores to at least listen to a few. Take care
Hi Thomas, did you realize you have followers in Egypt ? I took your advise on the Buchardt S400 (amazing) & on the Zenith (not received yet). Have a few recommendations for you as well, that will also shock you, 😀
Thomas & Stereo Dear Thomas, DOGE a small company out of China, I tried the Doge 8 clarity (2019 edition) after 2 weeks, I sold my US made pre’s, that new were at double & triple the price. I tested again with the Doge 7 tube Dac , again a beautiful analog sounding machine. A keeper, will now order the prima donna integrated to taste their amplification.
Thomas & Stereo good is an understatement, I first ordered the Doge 8 Clarity then the Doge 7 Dac, I just ordered yesterday their new Doge 5 integrated.
Two questions: 1) @6:36 "Just take out your cell phone, your tablet, and you can access this unit within 30 seconds, after you press the power button" Are your only options, for interacting with the music player, to use a smart phone or a tablet? Can you use a laptop? I prefer to type using a real keyboard, when I am, for example, entering search criteria or filter criteria, for a song, artist, album, etc. Can you connect your laptop to the Innuos music player, and bring up the same (or similar) interface that would appear on your tablet? 2) @6:47 "...load JRiver (Media Center)" Interesting that you mentioned JRiver... I currently use JRiver's Media Center, to have my laptop feed my DAC, and it sounds very good (or so I thought). In an audio store, I recently heard one of the Innous music players, on a stereo very similar to mine. With the Innous controlling noise and jitter, I became aware of how noisy my laptop is. So now I need to buy one of the Innous music players. But I love the seemingly unending flexibility that I have with JRiver's Media Center, and I do not want to give it up. Can JRiver's Media Center connect to the Innous music player? Can the Innous music player accept the data stream from my laptop, re-clock the digital samples and deliver a bit-perfect and noise free data stream to my DAC? (the audio store knew only the basics of the music player, and they used a smart phone -- so they could not answer my questions) Thank you.
@@ThomasAndStereo "Why not email them (Innuos) to confirm"? I started my efforts with the audio store's personnel. Upon them not being able to answer my questions, they conferenced me in with an Innuos representative. Mark, from Innuos, was basically reading from a script, singing the virtues of the player, but had little more than that by way of the information that I was seeking. He constantly interrupted my questions, and kept answering things that I did not ask. I concluded that was his modus operandi, for trying to hide his lack of knowledge on the subject matter. He knew only the basics that accompany the literature for the product. I respect people that say "I don't know", or "I'll get back to you with an answer", etc. But this guy just kept changing the subject, and it was frustrating. So I pressed him for an answer to the JRiver Media Center compatibility question, and his answer was "No", the player is not designed for that (which was a wrong answer that he just guessed at (but I did not know, yet, that his answer was wrong)). With the above experience, I had little faith at expecting meaningful communication from e-mailing Innuos. So I asked my questions in JRiver's forum, and got no replies (it is not something that that community really deals with), and I also search (via duckduckgo.com) for articles (nothing answered my questions) and I search youtube (and you mentioned what I was looking to have answered). Finally, I decided that I have nothing to lose by e-mailing support@innous.com After a few back and forth e-mail exchanges, Emmanuel Le Quere , Innuos North America Sales Manager, wrote the following: "J River works with the UPnP protocol. The great thing about LMS is that it has been there forever and is free software, so many people are working around it... There are plug-ins available (for free) for UPnP that I personally use. With one, you can use your j-River on your computer as the Graphic Interface and direct the music to the Statement for playback. You can have the best of both worlds." (best of both worlds meaning: be able to use the fantastic JRiver Media Center front end, and delivered to my DAC via the silent, jitter-free transport of the Innuos player). I do not understand what LMS is. But I do understand that he wrote that the Innuos player would work with JRiver's Media Center. In one additional e-mail exchange, I asked him if there would be any loss in fidelity, by not using the Innuos' built-in player. He replied: "No loss in sound quality... they use the UPnP protocol to carry the data but the LMS player to play the music." Again, since I do not know what LMS is (even after I read the wikipedia page), I do not entirely understand his reply. The part I do understand is "No loss in sound quality". That is the long saga that I experienced. Now I will be borrowing the Innuos player from my local audio store, just to make sure that it gets along with my gear (not all quality components are a good match for each other). So it is good that can listen in my own living-room, which eliminates any guess work before plunking down my hard-earned $$. Cheers!
@@ThomasAndStereo I will share my results. But it will be at least a week, because I do not have a shelf to place this additional box. And it needs to be near my DAC, because the only output on the Innuos player is USB, and my USB cable is 2 meters. Yes, longer ones are available. But cables matter (even USB data cables matter). I am not going to buy a longer cable for this test because 1) a longer, inexpensive Walmart-type USB cable will kill the sound quality, 2) a longer quality USB cable is expensive, and 3) it is important to keep USB cables short (no more than 3-meters -- although 5-meters is supposed to be the limit, I will not flirt with the limit of its reliability). So I have to buy a stand for the Innuos box, that will allow me to place it close to my DAC. This is going to delay my efforts to do a listening test. And then there is the issue of a quality power cord. Quality power cords are critical for all digital hardware. I might be able to find one, temporarily, but it is yet another delay. By the way, can you or anyone reading this explain what LMS is? Is it just some background process that I need not worry about? Is it something I have to configure? I am blank on what it is and how it fits in to this whole process. Thank you.
@@ThomasAndStereo I listened to the Innuos player, and was very impressed (for the most part). It handily sounded better than my laptop (with JRiver's Media Center) feeding my DAC. Everything was quieter and more focused, and it allowed me to hear more into the music. But as good as the improvement was (and it was significant), it was not all positive. The bass became a problem. Although it was more focused, etc, it now sounded disconnected from the rest of the stereo. There appeared to be an emphasis on the mid-bass, which I believe is responsible for the issue. The audio store's owner suggested that I replace my pre-amp and power-amp's after-market power cords with the stock power cords, and use after-market power cords only for the DAC and the Innuos player. Unfortunately, after I replaced all of my power cords, I gave my stock power cords to the store (they were always misplacing power cords for some reason). I am going to the audio store, today. They are loaning me stock power cords, and I will repeat my listening session. By the way, I had a heck of a time getting my laptop to connect to the Innuos player. It turned out that my laptop was using a range of IP addresses that were not routable to the Innuos' IP address. Once I determined that that might be the issue, I knew how to fix that, and I was able to connect. But I still had a problem, because the Innuos support person told me to direct my web browser to the Innuos' IP address at port 9000. For example: 192.168.0.2:9000 That worked, but it was only for setting up the Innuos player. After yet another delay, due to e-mail being the only option to communicate with Innuos support, it turns out that you leave off the port number to access the part of the player that plays the music. For example: 192.168.0.2 The Innuos support person e-mailed me to wait until I purchase the player, and only then will he instruct me on how to get JRiver's Media Center to feed the Innuos box. I replied back that he needs to help me get this working on the loaner Innuos player, because that is why it was loaned to me. I will not spend thousands and cross my fingers that it will be to my liking. I am running out of time, because the store wants their Innuos box back today or tomorrow. If I cannot lick the problem with the bass, then this will be no sale. I cannot have a stereo where some frequency, some item, some anything, stands out. That item becomes a source of irritation. By the way, I suspect that most people use their smart-phone or tablet to control these players. Such a set-up requires you only to install an app, and you are good to go. I prefer to use my laptop, and it seems that Innuos is not especially adept at having clear instructions for this type of set-up.
Thomas...I am going back to digital after a hiatus of 10 years and concentrated on analog. Even though I work in the IT field...I gave tons of questions and the cheaper Innous intrigued me. I live in the Montreal area. Get in touch with me...would like to ask you questions about music server..thanks
Hi Thomas, I recently listened to the mini mk3 with external power supply ibtwo different setting at two different dealers. Through it's internal dac it's sound stage was phenomenal, but the tone was not up to the naim competition I listened to as well. Logical, since the naim streamer is twice the price. Then at another dealer I heard the mini mk3 with psu and the zen mk2. There the zen did have that touch of high end you mentioned, but the mini didn't. I bought the zen. At half the price from a mk3, this mk2 demo was too tempting for me. For people who react that other solutions work just as well: listen to Thomas and try in your system. The quality of rips is simpele to hear and enjoy. Compared to the rip on computer, listen through usb drive setup I used previously, the zen mk2 is my ticket to the listening experience you described. Great. Will I save up for a mk3 or a zenith? With the feelgood factor the zen brings me, that will not happen soon. So should you test the mini? Yes, since I feel that the better quality rips put It above similarly priced competition. But test a zen mk3 at the same time, please. Because for someone who already owns a dac, the €500 extra is very well spent.
Just a follow up to my earlier comment. With all the things you look at I'm curious why networks switches have not received your attention? Seems to me noise in the system is something worth eliminating and network switches are worthy of attention. I've spent time looking into all this and and given the cost which ain't much to buy a better network switch the cost benefit clearly seems to be there.
Love your reviews, but with all respect, do you expect differences between the Krell CD transport and the TEAC in the Innuos Zenith mk3? Perhaps there is an old TEAC in the Krell.
I did not AB test it myself but for my friend, he felt there was a a consistent difference. Meaning he was able to pinpoint to me where the difference shows up. I personally think those differences are so small that people need to really go into deep meditation to hear the difference. I doubt many people will pass a double blind test when comparing. Having said that, some people that I have met have a hearing of a bat and they will be able to but most people I doubt will.
I bought a Zen MK3 already in 2019 and I did not have to buy a third-party software just to access it. Yes for indetail meta data management you want to use a third-party software if you use it as a UPnP server, so one uses the streamer player software for playback. You can also use it as a Roon core server, which you did not mention. I am pleased with this unit now after trying two other music servers before. I hope that one day you review Linn audio equipment.
I feel guilty for your „heart“: because you are correct, if you are feeding directly a DAC you would need a player software unless you would use streaming DAC with its own app. This was my only critique for the ZEN music servers that they do not come with fully fetched software for all purposes like Playback and advanced library management.
Thomas & Stereo same here but it’s not as difficult as it seems. Looked really really daunting and off putting at first - I’m nota computer geek and don’t want to be one - but in fact is not. It’s all done on your phone...
Curious of how this would compare to the i5 Sonic Transporter. Even though the i5 does not have cd ripping capability, but be interesting to compare the sound quality.
Hi Thomas, I sold my Denon AVC X6500H to move to completely music oriented system. I am eyeing on the Innous Zen MKIII but will it be sufficient alone for my need. I am having a pair of KEF Q950 floor standing speakers. The question is, can the Zen MKIII connect to the speakers directly? If not what else am I supposed to include to make the system complete? Sorry, if this is an absurd question, I am so new to all this and sometimes do get lost in the many equipment available. My source of music will be online and CDs. Thanks so much and looking forward to hearing from you. Cheers
No you cannot connect this to your speaker. Think of this as a cd player but instead it uses a harddrive to store music. What you are looking for is an integrated amp.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you so much for your reply. Could you please suggest a few models which I could look into? While using the AVR earlier I could notice the KEFs are power-hungry. Cheers
I always wondered if I’m truly losing quality when ripping cds from an external optical reader to my laptop vs one of those expensive dedicated rippers....... but I guess I shouldn’t worry too much according to the video
@@ThomasAndStereo my friend ripped with an Highend machine (Xo-one) and with a pioneer bluray toploader (external computer drive). He compared both rippings and came to the result that this 100€/$ pioneer make a awsome job. Ripping isn't like ripping
I have the software for the MS300 - MS750. Will allow you to swap internal hard drives, install new software and read/write music. If I recall its the CD has ALL the software and manuals/repair schematicsfor ALL McIntosh products 1949 through 2008 I believe. Been a while since I last used it. It may be the Golden CD.
@@ThomasAndStereo yes sir... I left the disc at my 2nd home with my home theater system. I'll email later this week. I believe the entire disc has close to 600mb on it. We can talk via email in case you want the entire disc will all the contents. I got the disc from an employee and became very popular on the forums. lol
I have a SMS Ultra Neo in my house running Roon, and it out performs every PC/Mac that I have ever used. I think music server and file transport will be the future of audiophile community. The SMS that I have is pretty much equal to any $4000 CD player in the market, and it allows me to do everything that a CD player cannot do. EX: Airplay, Roon, Spotify, Tidal, Chrome-cast ... Needless to say, I am putting my CD player on Audigon for sale
@@ThomasAndStereo Thrilling!!! I am still yet to listen to Gershman Avant Garde and Graham Acustics LS5/5. I think that's my top end. They are very similarly priced, and they both seem to have tone sound as goal, sounding as lifelike as possible, rather than as detailed as possible. Looking forward to your impressions!! I know there is a good representative of Graham acoustics over in Montreal. It would be interesting if you could eventually consider checking the Graham acoustics. It's comparable to Rogers :)
@@ThomasAndStereo no not software but that helped too. Lol. I was asking about how it sounds just as a streamer, you know all the galvanic isolation and being a quiet network streamer. Thanks man !
Thomas, Innous has a similar unit, $2600 between the most expensive one and the bargain level one. According to other respected reviewers like yourself it's much closer performance wise to the unit in this review for a lot less. No dac but I prefer the Yggy2 anyway. Stay safe.
Mac doesn’t require drivers........, as it’s set up with standard usb protocol. It’s Windows which needs to have drivers loaded from the DAC or servers sites.
Did you ever think about comparing the Innuos to the melco? The zenith is about the same price as a melco n1a 2ex+ their CD player. Many dealers have told me that even rips are better when done with the melco. Not so with the innuos.
You should probably try the Melco/DELA music servers. Awesome sounding server/streamers. Very musical, sometimes I just forget that I am listening to a digital file.
Glad you did the review on the Innous. I was considering the entry level with LPSU. But first I am thinking of starting with the Bluesound to see if I will enjoy streaming from Tidal etc. Some of me wants to just spin LPs and CDs/SACDs and maybe internet radio. I'll play around for 3 months to 6 months with BlueSound and If I like, I'll jump up to the Innous. I think the SSD would be better than the HDD don't you? Is the hard drive quiet? Thanks.
Thomas & Stereo I have the Allo Digione Signature, great little streamer with Volumio, but it was a pain to set up if you aren’t that technical. Once setup, it has been fine
@@ThomasAndStereo I as well have just recently bought the Allo USBridge Signature with the linear power-supply called Shanti, all together just below 500,-€, Running moOde software as OS and it was not difficult to set it up to just play/stream from my NAS and Tidal. It only has quality USB out, no wifi, no SPDIF, and is as stripped down as much as possible for a small computer to reduce noise. I'm using the free APP mconnect on my iPhone to control the stream from my NAS and Tidal. I can as well stream from my MacBook with Audirvana to the device without any additional setup, only to select the device in Audirvana. Would love to see a comparison to the costly units.
I am using a 2011 Mac Mini (cost me $300 CAD used) with Audirvana and it sounds good. Also I heard that mechanical drives sound better than SSD, I am not sure if that is true.
@@ThomasAndStereo I am pretty sure the MK3 sound better than the Mini. I have done AB test with Cambridge CXN V2, the Mini is more transparent, CXN has better dynamic but I prefer the Mini.
That's interesting to hear that this is comparable (within 5%) to a CD transport. So where does that leave us if considering the Taiko Audio Extreme music server (24K euros for the base model). This surely then is daylight robbery if this machine at a fraction of the price is CD transport quality. Sound surely doesn't get better than this?
Hi Thomas! Thank you for the thoughts on the Zenith MK3. You spoke about it not working with every DAC because of ... I can't remember what you said. How would I be able to tell if the Zenith will work with a DAC or not? Thank you!
This needs a streamer? What is the difference between a streamer and a server? How happy are you with your Lumin? I am planning on getting a Lumin as well (transport only). Thanks for the video.
This stuff is so confusing. And there are different types of streamers. I still don't understand the difference between a network player and a network bridge, and of course you can use either to stream music. I'm ready to give up lol
A streamer is a dac that will get music from the internet or from a music server.Not all streamer have a built in drive to house the music so it must get it from somewhere. I can explain better when I make the video on the Lumin streamer.
Thomas & Stereo some streamers don't have a built in DAC though, such as SoTM sms 200 ultra. I have a server which serves as Roon core, a streamer that serves as Roon end point, and a DAC. All three separate.
Personally I just built a passively cooled HTPC with a SSD (Streacom FC-8A Chassis) which I built myself for a bit under a grand, and use my main desktop as my bulk storage from another room so I can't hear the hard drive when I stream music. For a DAC I am using a MiniDSP DDRC-24 with Dirac Live Processing via USB audio, and I can't see myself ever needing anything more. If there is noise there, I can't hear it. You can barely hear a tiny bit of hiss with your ears right up against the tweeters. I don't have much experience with high end DACs, and I honestly don't care to because it feels like the true money pit of return on your dollar in audio to me.
Not trying to sound smart, but this device appears to be a pretty standard computer with LPS, deadening and body tweaks? I would love to blind test this vs my RPI. Devices like this are just optimised PCs. An interesting video would be you and your friends in a blind test, changing streamer sources! See if you can pick the source.
@@ThomasAndStereo I love Roon. Changed the way I listen to music, its introduced me to so many new artists I never would have listened to. Nothing comes close to the user experience period. I use Ropieee XL on a RPI4 and Roon server on a windows PC, i7. Doesn't break a sweat doing DSD and convolution filters. I am actually looking to build active speakers (2 way 15inch Compression) using Roon for crossover duties. I sold my Pioneer n70a, Cambridge CXN v2 (which I don't rate) in favour of the RPI4 sound quality into my RME ADI2 Fs. I asked because I haven't heard you mention Roon compatibility on any of the streamers etc you test. IMO, you'll never use native control apps again.
Next try a DDC or Reclocker like Mutec MC-3+ USB, or GD Audio DI-20HE. Innuos only output USB, so try these DDC Aes output in to your DAC. If your DAC is good, you will love the sound. IMO the Gustard is a little under-spec for your system.
Thank you Thomas for taking some time to review this unit. Zenith MK3 w/ Exogal ION power DAC combo and Roon has provided that final top 10% of performance I was searching for in my digital system. For those continuing to listen “old school” style this is not for you, to the rest choosing to use today’s available technology this is currently a pinnacle of performance if your wallet can take the hit and you want some of the best equipment available. Of course there are other choices/combos out there too that will provide this level of performance, unfortunately there are currently no “giant killers” that i auditioned, that will do it for “cheap”, SQ is subjective, YMMV, IMO, etc. Happy listening to all.
Amp designers should know the math to be able to voice those Large Hundred thousand dollars systems into more space s/cost savings designs.(Not Class D Hypex designs etc)
Is it possible these expensive vendors have some hidden DSP that creates the difference you hear? IMO, the "optimisation" they listed sounds gimmicky as s##$$
I think gear with good power supply makes a difference. If you look at higher end gear, that is one thing they have in common. Is it DSP, I don't have the technical knowledge to even start guessing.
Hi Thomas Great video . I wish you would’ve included comparison with LUMIN streaming quality. After upgrading to LUMIN u1 mini .. I understands streamers are equally important as CD player or Turntable. If we are into streaming and Roon is the way to go for best experience. LUMIN U1 mini way better than my audiolab 6000CDT Transport and nice 2i.
I thought I did. I have so many questions everyday that I don't remember which one. I remember telling you the problem with Titan, check out Focal and b&w. RUclips does not always notify me all the messages
So what do you think if I go with the Kanta 3, I have two parasound a21+ but only thing these speakers are no bi-amping so I would have to mono block them, solidstate. at 1000watts and they only take 300watts, what to do as I have all this power, it looks like i wasted money. would these give me sonic sounds or that does not matter. Please respond as i am about to spend more money on the focals.
I understand your opinions but for those that know a thing or two about pc`s, we can tell that the unit is not worth the price, even though it might sound better than what you have. I would like you to try this to test against other servers. Get a mini pc (cheap one), buy an SSD if it doesn`t come with one. As for the tweaks, remove the wifi/bluetooth card, do this yourself or ask for someone to de-solder the usb ports that you don`t use, de-solder the integrated audio ports and chip, and after you`re done with that you can install a dedicated OS like Daphile,Volumio etc. All of this shouldn`t cost more than 100$, maybe more if you want to add a usb cleaner and a linear power supply.
Sure I understand all that. In fact I used to own a computer store and repair computers. As I said, this is a solution for certain people. If you meet as many audiophiles and heard as many system as I have, you will find everyone looks for different solutions. We all understand the whole idea about any gear is to minimize noise and for sure you can achieve a lot of amazing stuff by doing what you said. The SOTM server I have here is also another solution at an incredible price.
I do understand that the Zenith sounds very good as it should do because it`s been tweaked properly, but for me the hardware inside does not justify the price, just like many other products on the market, although someone else might have a different opinion. They`re using a Supermicro motherboard and not one built by them , that mobo can be purchased by anyone else.
@@Spwrey I actually asked them about the motherboard cause another youtube brought that up which he later made another video to apologize for assuming that. No, no one can buy that motherboard, it even has a customized bios. Hardware alone never justifies the price and this is true if you look at everything in the industry. Look at a $1000 speaker, probably $100 in parts? But to bring something to market and the cost of doing business is something that needs to be factor in. Also, there are many things to consider, for example, the look of a product. The ease of use and so forth.
Indeed there are many things to factor in, but even though the server sounds really good, you can still get maybe 90%-95% of that just by doing the tweaks yourself at a much lower price. Although there are a lot of people that don`t bother with that, they just want to buy the device, plug it in and play music, and for them a server like the Zenith is perfect.
Bo Bo, if someone is running a very revealing system (aka hi-end) then the quality or price of the components that make up a product is a mute point. They are seeking the 'best' sound quality for them. I run such a system and can assure anyone that the Zenith is a serious piece of kit. If you can find/build a computer based system that equals it, then start doing so as it will sell very well. In the meantime, I will enjoy the streaming and server capabilities of the Zenith.
@@midorihibiki what level might that be on a scale of 1-10 ? worth 4x the cost - I think not (for me)- ... Rolls Royce is on another level vs a Corvette - - the Corvette will out perform all day long, --and be right there with any other car 5 times + the cost... what's the point?
@@Audiojunkabus You can search John Darko who has many music servers and streamers. He did a sound comparison of many budget to high end gears. I do not have Bluesound and Innous server so can not say but Innous Zenith MK 3 servers definitely win Bluesound in term of sound quality. Hope that could help you. Moreover in audiophile the more you spend money to buy better/high end gears does not mean you get the better performance to ratio money. So if you're happy with your gears then you can stop. However if you want more then you need to be rich or save more money, sometimes spend thousands, double, triple or even more but just get 5-10-15-20% better results.
In the audio world, there is no limit. Most expensive DAC I heard was $100k, different people shop at different level, now I just need to win that damm lottery.
I could tell you how to convert the hard drive into an ssd, but you have to be committed to some serious nerd play. Youre gonna need a whole other computer with disk inputs to spare. One for the hard drive from the MS600 And another one for the SSD you wish to use. And youre going to have to look into a piece of software called MiniTool. If you can figure that much out the rest is pretty self explanatory.
@@ThomasAndStereo hmm. what exactly is it asking you to do? you should be able to mark that drive as active or something. I'm surprised minitool doesnt detect the ms600 drive by itself.
BTW, X26 has a terrible USB input design, I believe the Innuos will improve the sound performance. Get a U16, it will dramatically eliminate the Innuos' influence.
@@ThomasAndStereo U16 the whole device is for feeding nice I2S signal to DAC, it's not perfect but much better than the USB interface in X26. It should be integrated into X26, but obviously, the designer decided to cut the cost.
Thomas take a look at OCD HIFI Guy’s review of this unit. He cans it. Second take a look at alternatives. Simpler servers and compare quality for audio. Another minefield in Hi-Fi... take care.
@@JingoLoBa57 I don't live in the States so I don't know about if they can sue but if that is the case, wouldn't it be easier just to take down the original video? Also I noticed he never even heard the unit so...
you said " every time you dealing computer , you lose fidelity ". of cause, because your network sucks. any gear you attached RJ45 you lost 40% FIDELITY, regardless you have million dollar setup. you need good switch + CAT wire. no switching PS on modem/router .. etc...
I have to say you must have a terrible DAC. This product will improve the sound more noticeable when you connect it to a low price DAC which is designed 2-3 years ago.
Innuos again? One of the most controversial & overpriced items in the HiFi industry. The one exception is the pricing of the two Roon Nucleus music servers. [ See RUclips Video: "Debunking the music server, streamer, end point, bridge, renderer etc Part #1"] I still recommend building an Intel NUC Roon ROCK music server for the DYI people or buying a Small Green Computer [SONICTRANSPORTER I5] music server. The entry level ZEN MINI MK3 1TB is also a better buy.
@ Bryon B. Roon Nucleus music servers are just Nuc systems. Roon buy them and modified them and install Roon Rock on them. They admit it on their website and I think they're overpriced too if you compare them to Innuos music server but whatever they do sound good that's the matter. If you could make your own computers sound good as them then you can sell as high as they do.
So they basically failed. I buy 3k plus box that does not work flawless with mid to hi end DACs? Nobody cares it is basically a pc. It is a player for all intents and purposes, and this player requires drivers, does not send word clock, compatibility is meh at best... it is a fail. They need to output optic, AES and I2S with, a dedicated word clock included, and proper software
"one of the best music server" This is gramatically wrong! The correct way to say it is: "ONE OF THE BEST MUSIC SERVERS" Explanation: what you mean to say is one of the MANY. The way you say it is "one of the one" please don't forget to add "s" to the many items you are referring to. You have one of the pair of earS I trust most among RUclips audio reviewers
So Innuos has asked me if I would be interested to review the ZENMINI MK3 1TB. That is their entry model that is around $1250 with a built-in DAC. Let me know if there is an interest and I will ask them to send me. If not a lot of people are interested, I will pass on it. I forgot to thank James in this video who reached out to Innuos asking them to send me this unit. Finally if you gave the golden CD for the McIntosh ms300, plz let me know.
I was just looking yesterday at this! So the answer is yes! :)
Yes, please.
YES and YES
I have tried the zen, zenith by itself and with the Phoenix USB reclocker. With every step the sound improves dramatically in my system. Granted I have a very highly resolving system. The improvement in power to the system is what makes the sound better with each upgraded model in the Innuos line. I ended up ordering the Statement that is scheduled to arrive this week.
One thing to note for anyone looking to demo these streamers, make sure to give it at least 250 hours of burn-in. Also switching out the power cord to a quality cable improves the sound further.
Great review Thomas! I owned the Zen MkII and sold it before I moved recently. It was probably the only piece of equipment that I was emotionally attached to. I don't know why, it's a computer. But it did make every DAC I tried it with sound better. PS. I tried the Zen Mini MkII and actually bought the Zen II blind because it bested a Bryston BDP-2 in an A/B test. They are great. And I build my own gaming/editing computers and still bought one.
Thanks Adrian, it seems many people who have tried it really like it.
Thomas ,
I didn’t hear you comment on the inbuilt streamer in this great product. It’s enabled with Tidal and Qobuz direct service and is Roon ready for subscribers to use effortlessly. Additionally, the USB connection to a DAC is galvanically isolated , and the Ethernet outlet is exceptional.
Roger
Thanks for the info!
Thomas you have created such a great community and offer such great content - great job!
Thomas, just an update on the ZEN. After about 300 hours of use, the unit opened up, and on AB comparison I cannot notice any difference between the CD and the WAV ripped discs on the Innuos.👍
Nice, thanks for letting me know😀
I bought a used Innuos Zenith recently. I'm blown away by how great it sounds!! I never expected such a large improvement. From my experience, it's worth every penny.
--system: Zenith (usb out) > Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE dac > Linear Tube Audio integrated amplifier
-- previous streaming setup: Audirvana Software (UPnP out) > IFi Zen Stream (with S-Booster LPS). [BTW, Audirvana really improves the Zen Stream]
-- I'm streaming local files and Tidal using the Innuos Sense app.
Compared to my previous streaming setup the sound has improved by
The music is just "popping" out of thin air. There's more texture, clarity & spaciousness.
It's so musical -- not analytical.
BTW, the Innuos Sense app is really good.
The Innuos "server" will also stream (output) to any UpnP endpoint. Legacy Squeezebox or Sonos renderers too.
Thomas Thanks. Even though 3 years back this was a very important review for me.
My conclusion: the digital source is ABSOLUTELY underrated in impact of sound quality. Why comparing DACs if this is not fixed?
Glad to see you looking at servers as I try to determine whether something off the shelf might be better in various ways than something I might try to assemble myself. The whole computer music scene has turned into a rat's nest with a dizzying array of products and an equally dizzying slate of claims. And, OF COURSE, the prices keep getting higher. sigh. So, all attempts at clearing away some of the smoke are appreciated. Just try to hold on to your sanity as you tread this treacherous path. :)
I love your videos. So well thought out and narrated.
I was content with my Zenmini Mk2 (w/o LPSU), but recently came across a steal of a deal for a used Zenith Mk2.
The Zenith definitely wins out with blacker backgrounds, better timing, more powerful and articulate bass, and realistic tone. The user experience also takes a step up if you use it with Roon.
I’d imagine the Zenmini w/ LPSU comes close though.
Awesome, thanks for sharing your experience.
Hi Thomas, I purchased this Innuos unit six months ago. It's beautiful with no issues. I use a LAN connector from my modem to the unit and then USB plugged into my Mcintosh C2600 preamp with a built in dac. I believe it's not wifi compatible meaning you need a LAN connection. It streams and ripps beautifully using a free IPeng 9 remote app for windows. I can't comment on comparisons with cd transports or players but it's simple and flexible system. Thanks for all videos and support. Dave from Montreal
Thanks Dave for the comment. Glad you are enjoying it.
People out there rely on these reviews, they don't always have the opportunity to listen to these components. I'm fortunate that I live in a city with lots of audio stores to at least listen to a few. Take care
Hey Thomas, I I'm still waiting for your review of entry level innous streamer dec.
Hi Thomas, did you realize you have followers in Egypt ? I took your advise on the Buchardt S400 (amazing) & on the Zenith (not received yet). Have a few recommendations for you as well, that will also shock you, 😀
Nice, what recommendations?
Thomas & Stereo Dear Thomas, DOGE a small company out of China, I tried the Doge 8 clarity (2019 edition) after 2 weeks, I sold my US made pre’s, that new were at double & triple the price. I tested again with the Doge 7 tube Dac , again a beautiful analog sounding machine. A keeper, will now order the prima donna integrated to taste their amplification.
Nice, they did reach out to me. YOu said the Doge clarity is good?
Thomas & Stereo good is an understatement, I first ordered the Doge 8 Clarity then the Doge 7 Dac, I just ordered yesterday their new Doge 5 integrated.
You got Lumin T2 finally. Great!
How do you compare between LUMIN and Innuos? I am deciding between the two but I mainly need a streamer transport only
Two questions:
1)
@6:36 "Just take out your cell phone, your tablet, and you can access this unit within 30 seconds, after you press the power button"
Are your only options, for interacting with the music player, to use a smart phone or a tablet?
Can you use a laptop?
I prefer to type using a real keyboard, when I am, for example, entering search criteria or filter criteria, for a song, artist, album, etc.
Can you connect your laptop to the Innuos music player, and bring up the same (or similar) interface that would appear on your tablet?
2)
@6:47 "...load JRiver (Media Center)"
Interesting that you mentioned JRiver...
I currently use JRiver's Media Center, to have my laptop feed my DAC, and it sounds very good (or so I thought).
In an audio store, I recently heard one of the Innous music players, on a stereo very similar to mine. With the Innous controlling noise and jitter, I became aware of how noisy my laptop is. So now I need to buy one of the Innous music players.
But I love the seemingly unending flexibility that I have with JRiver's Media Center, and I do not want to give it up.
Can JRiver's Media Center connect to the Innous music player? Can the Innous music player accept the data stream from my laptop, re-clock the digital samples and deliver a bit-perfect and noise free data stream to my DAC?
(the audio store knew only the basics of the music player, and they used a smart phone -- so they could not answer my questions)
Thank you.
Why not email them to confirm. Yes you can access it with your computer. Jriver I don't remember but they are quite responsive.
@@ThomasAndStereo "Why not email them (Innuos) to confirm"?
I started my efforts with the audio store's personnel. Upon them not being able to answer my questions, they conferenced me in with an Innuos representative.
Mark, from Innuos, was basically reading from a script, singing the virtues of the player, but had little more than that by way of the information that I was seeking. He constantly interrupted my questions, and kept answering things that I did not ask.
I concluded that was his modus operandi, for trying to hide his lack of knowledge on the subject matter. He knew only the basics that accompany the literature for the product.
I respect people that say "I don't know", or "I'll get back to you with an answer", etc. But this guy just kept changing the subject, and it was frustrating. So I pressed him for an answer to the JRiver Media Center compatibility question, and his answer was "No", the player is not designed for that (which was a wrong answer that he just guessed at (but I did not know, yet, that his answer was wrong)).
With the above experience, I had little faith at expecting meaningful communication from e-mailing Innuos.
So I asked my questions in JRiver's forum, and got no replies (it is not something that that community really deals with), and I also search (via duckduckgo.com) for articles (nothing answered my questions) and I search youtube (and you mentioned what I was looking to have answered).
Finally, I decided that I have nothing to lose by e-mailing support@innous.com
After a few back and forth e-mail exchanges, Emmanuel Le Quere
, Innuos North America Sales Manager, wrote the following:
"J River works with the UPnP protocol. The great thing about LMS is that it has been there forever and is free software, so many people are working around it... There are plug-ins available (for free) for UPnP that I personally use. With one, you can use your j-River on your computer as the Graphic Interface and direct the music to the Statement for playback. You can have the best of both worlds." (best of both worlds meaning: be able to use the fantastic JRiver Media Center front end, and delivered to my DAC via the silent, jitter-free transport of the Innuos player).
I do not understand what LMS is. But I do understand that he wrote that the Innuos player would work with JRiver's Media Center.
In one additional e-mail exchange, I asked him if there would be any loss in fidelity, by not using the Innuos' built-in player. He replied:
"No loss in sound quality... they use the UPnP protocol to carry the data but the LMS player to play the music."
Again, since I do not know what LMS is (even after I read the wikipedia page), I do not entirely understand his reply. The part I do understand is "No loss in sound quality".
That is the long saga that I experienced. Now I will be borrowing the Innuos player from my local audio store, just to make sure that it gets along with my gear (not all quality components are a good match for each other). So it is good that can listen in my own living-room, which eliminates any guess work before plunking down my hard-earned $$.
Cheers!
@@NoEgg4u Thanks for sharing and let us know your result. This will help others too.
@@ThomasAndStereo I will share my results. But it will be at least a week, because I do not have a shelf to place this additional box. And it needs to be near my DAC, because the only output on the Innuos player is USB, and my USB cable is 2 meters. Yes, longer ones are available. But cables matter (even USB data cables matter).
I am not going to buy a longer cable for this test because 1) a longer, inexpensive Walmart-type USB cable will kill the sound quality, 2) a longer quality USB cable is expensive, and 3) it is important to keep USB cables short (no more than 3-meters -- although 5-meters is supposed to be the limit, I will not flirt with the limit of its reliability).
So I have to buy a stand for the Innuos box, that will allow me to place it close to my DAC. This is going to delay my efforts to do a listening test.
And then there is the issue of a quality power cord. Quality power cords are critical for all digital hardware. I might be able to find one, temporarily, but it is yet another delay.
By the way, can you or anyone reading this explain what LMS is?
Is it just some background process that I need not worry about?
Is it something I have to configure?
I am blank on what it is and how it fits in to this whole process.
Thank you.
@@ThomasAndStereo I listened to the Innuos player, and was very impressed (for the most part). It handily sounded better than my laptop (with JRiver's Media Center) feeding my DAC. Everything was quieter and more focused, and it allowed me to hear more into the music. But as good as the improvement was (and it was significant), it was not all positive.
The bass became a problem. Although it was more focused, etc, it now sounded disconnected from the rest of the stereo. There appeared to be an emphasis on the mid-bass, which I believe is responsible for the issue.
The audio store's owner suggested that I replace my pre-amp and power-amp's after-market power cords with the stock power cords, and use after-market power cords only for the DAC and the Innuos player. Unfortunately, after I replaced all of my power cords, I gave my stock power cords to the store (they were always misplacing power cords for some reason).
I am going to the audio store, today. They are loaning me stock power cords, and I will repeat my listening session.
By the way, I had a heck of a time getting my laptop to connect to the Innuos player. It turned out that my laptop was using a range of IP addresses that were not routable to the Innuos' IP address. Once I determined that that might be the issue, I knew how to fix that, and I was able to connect.
But I still had a problem, because the Innuos support person told me to direct my web browser to the Innuos' IP address at port 9000. For example:
192.168.0.2:9000
That worked, but it was only for setting up the Innuos player. After yet another delay, due to e-mail being the only option to communicate with Innuos support, it turns out that you leave off the port number to access the part of the player that plays the music. For example:
192.168.0.2
The Innuos support person e-mailed me to wait until I purchase the player, and only then will he instruct me on how to get JRiver's Media Center to feed the Innuos box.
I replied back that he needs to help me get this working on the loaner Innuos player, because that is why it was loaned to me. I will not spend thousands and cross my fingers that it will be to my liking.
I am running out of time, because the store wants their Innuos box back today or tomorrow.
If I cannot lick the problem with the bass, then this will be no sale. I cannot have a stereo where some frequency, some item, some anything, stands out. That item becomes a source of irritation.
By the way, I suspect that most people use their smart-phone or tablet to control these players. Such a set-up requires you only to install an app, and you are good to go. I prefer to use my laptop, and it seems that Innuos is not especially adept at having clear instructions for this type of set-up.
Thomas...I am going back to digital after a hiatus of 10 years and concentrated on analog. Even though I work in the IT field...I gave tons of questions and the cheaper Innous intrigued me. I live in the Montreal area. Get in touch with me...would like to ask you questions about music server..thanks
Have you ever looked at Netwerk switches? I recently bought the English eight switch end it seems OK. makes me feel good.
No, Mr. Jazz yes and he was very surprised.
Great to see the LUMIN T2 on the Amp - looks superb!
Hi Thomas,
I recently listened to the mini mk3 with external power supply ibtwo different setting at two different dealers. Through it's internal dac it's sound stage was phenomenal, but the tone was not up to the naim competition I listened to as well. Logical, since the naim streamer is twice the price. Then at another dealer I heard the mini mk3 with psu and the zen mk2. There the zen did have that touch of high end you mentioned, but the mini didn't. I bought the zen. At half the price from a mk3, this mk2 demo was too tempting for me. For people who react that other solutions work just as well: listen to Thomas and try in your system. The quality of rips is simpele to hear and enjoy. Compared to the rip on computer, listen through usb drive setup I used previously, the zen mk2 is my ticket to the listening experience you described. Great. Will I save up for a mk3 or a zenith? With the feelgood factor the zen brings me, that will not happen soon. So should you test the mini? Yes, since I feel that the better quality rips put It above similarly priced competition. But test a zen mk3 at the same time, please. Because for someone who already owns a dac, the €500 extra is very well spent.
Congrats on your purchase, yeah let me check out the Innuos mini.
Just a follow up to my earlier comment. With all the things you look at I'm curious why networks switches have not received your attention? Seems to me noise in the system is something worth eliminating and network switches are worthy of attention. I've spent time looking into all this and and given the cost which ain't much to buy a better network switch the cost benefit clearly seems to be there.
I try to focus on things that make a big difference and also look at things that don't get people throwing pitchfork at me.
I wonder what kind of servers does Spotify/Tidal/Amazon/Qobuz use?
Hi Thomas. I was referring to the $2600 ZEN Mk3 in my previous post. Thanks.
Love your reviews, but with all respect, do you expect differences between the Krell CD transport and the TEAC in the Innuos Zenith mk3? Perhaps there is an old TEAC in the Krell.
I did not AB test it myself but for my friend, he felt there was a a consistent difference. Meaning he was able to pinpoint to me where the difference shows up.
I personally think those differences are so small that people need to really go into deep meditation to hear the difference. I doubt many people will pass a double blind test when comparing. Having said that, some people that I have met have a hearing of a bat and they will be able to but most people I doubt will.
I bought a Zen MK3 already in 2019 and I did not have to buy a third-party software just to access it. Yes for indetail meta data management you want to use a third-party software if you use it as a UPnP server, so one uses the streamer player software for playback. You can also use it as a Roon core server, which you did not mention. I am pleased with this unit now after trying two other music servers before.
I hope that one day you review Linn audio equipment.
I feel guilty for your „heart“: because you are correct, if you are feeding directly a DAC you would need a player software unless you would use streaming DAC with its own app.
This was my only critique for the ZEN music servers that they do not come with fully fetched software for all purposes like Playback and advanced library management.
Great job Thomas. I would love to get my hands on a Ms 300.
How would this compare to Naim ND5 Xs2? Thanks
Is the Gershman Grande Avant-Garde up for review next? Pls post a few demo clips, thks
In the next few videos.
I use the Zen MK3. I recently added an ISO REGEN to the equation. Seems a significant improvement. Have you tried this?
No. Interesting.
Do you plan to try Allo Digi One or Pi2 AES streamers?
Not in the plans
Thomas & Stereo this might be of interest: www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/dummies-guide-to-pi2aes-throw-away-your-pc-or-laptop.8878/
@@topkho Yeah, I was looking at those at one point, I finally gave up on it as I was too lazy to figure out everything.
Thomas & Stereo same here but it’s not as difficult as it seems. Looked really really daunting and off putting at first - I’m nota computer geek and don’t want to be one - but in fact is not. It’s all done on your phone...
I am sure I can as I am really comfortable with computers, just lazy!
I have been in Telecommunications since 1982! Now after having a streamer I would love to have one thst rips as well. Something to think about
Well, they do have an entry level one.
Curious of how this would compare to the i5 Sonic Transporter. Even though the i5 does not have cd ripping capability, but be interesting to compare the sound quality.
since you are on this topic ..... you have any thoughts or ever tried testing Aurender w20 streamer/player?
Only if they send me.
Hi Thomas, I sold my Denon AVC X6500H to move to completely music oriented system. I am eyeing on the Innous Zen MKIII but will it be sufficient alone for my need. I am having a pair of KEF Q950 floor standing speakers. The question is, can the Zen MKIII connect to the speakers directly? If not what else am I supposed to include to make the system complete? Sorry, if this is an absurd question, I am so new to all this and sometimes do get lost in the many equipment available. My source of music will be online and CDs. Thanks so much and looking forward to hearing from you. Cheers
No you cannot connect this to your speaker. Think of this as a cd player but instead it uses a harddrive to store music. What you are looking for is an integrated amp.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you so much for your reply. Could you please suggest a few models which I could look into? While using the AVR earlier I could notice the KEFs are power-hungry. Cheers
Depends on your budget
@@ThomasAndStereo roughly USD 1,800/-. Thank you so much for helping me.
I like the way the Focal tweeter sounds.
I always wondered if I’m truly losing quality when ripping cds from an external optical reader to my laptop vs one of those expensive dedicated rippers....... but I guess I shouldn’t worry too much according to the video
Ripping should not be a problem. You are preserving the exact copy of the data on the cd.
@@ThomasAndStereo my friend ripped with an Highend machine (Xo-one) and with a pioneer bluray toploader (external computer drive). He compared both rippings and came to the result that this 100€/$ pioneer make a awsome job. Ripping isn't like ripping
I have the software for the MS300 - MS750. Will allow you to swap internal hard drives, install new software and read/write music. If I recall its the CD has ALL the software and manuals/repair schematicsfor ALL McIntosh products 1949 through 2008 I believe. Been a while since I last used it. It may be the Golden CD.
Nooooooooooooooooooooo.. I just sold it and shipped it out this morning. I was trying to clone the harddrive the day before :(
@@ThomasAndStereo oh no. Sorry... I can send you the disc for future reference. It definitely works...
If you can! My other friend has one that is dead. Can you email me at turbotan@gmail.com?
@@ThomasAndStereo yes sir... I left the disc at my 2nd home with my home theater system. I'll email later this week. I believe the entire disc has close to 600mb on it. We can talk via email in case you want the entire disc will all the contents. I got the disc from an employee and became very popular on the forums. lol
I have a SMS Ultra Neo in my house running Roon, and it out performs every PC/Mac that I have ever used. I think music server and file transport will be the future of audiophile community. The SMS that I have is pretty much equal to any $4000 CD player in the market, and it allows me to do everything that a CD player cannot do. EX: Airplay, Roon, Spotify, Tidal, Chrome-cast ... Needless to say, I am putting my CD player on Audigon for sale
I have a SMS200, I need to give it a try, it is just sitting there.
Are those Gershamn Acoustics speakers?? Will you review them soon!?
Yes and I will be next or very soon.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thrilling!!! I am still yet to listen to Gershman Avant Garde and Graham Acustics LS5/5. I think that's my top end. They are very similarly priced, and they both seem to have tone sound as goal, sounding as lifelike as possible, rather than as detailed as possible.
Looking forward to your impressions!! I know there is a good representative of Graham acoustics over in Montreal. It would be interesting if you could eventually consider checking the Graham acoustics. It's comparable to Rogers :)
@@BastianUllr Yeah,these speakers are really something. It will be a very interesting video as I have lots to talk about. Graham...hopefully one day.
Thomas another great video thanks much, how do you compare this one to bluesound node 2i thanks again
Node 2i is a streamer and this is a music server so can't compare.
Thomas & Stereo but it can also stream from Tidal etc.
Thomas. From just a streamer point of view is the blue sound node as good ?
Not the internal DAc. Thanks !
If you are asking for software, the Bluesound has pretty good software while this one does not. This one wins in terms of sound quality.
@@ThomasAndStereo no not software but that helped too. Lol. I was asking about how it sounds just as a streamer, you know all the galvanic isolation and being a quiet network streamer.
Thanks man !
You friend who has the jeff rowland power amplifiers, what kind of speakers he has??
Raidho D3
i don't need a DAC or CD ripper, just a transport. how would this compare to a iFi Zen Stream or Lumin Mini as a transport?
Sorry, I have not listen to those 2 yet.
Hi Thomas
Do you use room labs in your steup
Thank
Gordon
No I don't. Thanks.
An SSD with vibration treatment?
Thomas, Innous has a similar unit, $2600 between the most expensive one and the bargain level one. According to other respected reviewers like yourself it's much closer performance wise to the unit in this review for a lot less. No dac but I prefer the Yggy2 anyway. Stay safe.
I see, I personally would like to review the basic one myself.
@@ThomasAndStereo It great that all Innuos devices can be used both as RoonCore and Roon Endpoint integrated with Tidal, makes everything easy to use!
Mac doesn’t require drivers........, as it’s set up with standard usb protocol. It’s Windows which needs to have drivers loaded from the DAC or servers sites.
Yes, but some DAC will need MAC drivers. For example, my exasound E28.
Did you ever think about comparing the Innuos to the melco? The zenith is about the same price as a melco n1a 2ex+ their CD player. Many dealers have told me that even rips are better when done with the melco. Not so with the innuos.
Not really unless Melco reach out to me.
How about a guide for building your own music server?
Are you able to download high res audio files to the built in drive?
I don't have it anymore but I remember you can import but check with them to be sure.
You should probably try the Melco/DELA music servers. Awesome sounding server/streamers. Very musical, sometimes I just forget that I am listening to a digital file.
Wow, they won a lot of recommendation too.
Which model? do you have detail?
Thomas, if same album, play by CD, rip to innuos server or buy from HDtrack. Which one is sound better?
Oh I would need to AB test it to really answer you. Cause if they have the song in 24/96 native, then it might be better?
Thomas & Stereo I would like to say the answer is HDtracks, you can AB test if you won’t believe
I do have songs I bought from hdtrack and the cd / SACD too. Maybe I will do an ab test one day
Look at the Auralic Aries/Altair with the new rip option. You will be amazed.
Would love to and wish they would reach out to me.
How does the lumin compare to innuos?
Glad you did the review on the Innous. I was considering the entry level with LPSU. But first I am thinking of starting with the Bluesound to see if I will enjoy streaming from Tidal etc. Some of me wants to just spin LPs and CDs/SACDs and maybe internet radio. I'll play around for 3 months to 6 months with BlueSound and If I like, I'll jump up to the Innous. I think the SSD would be better than the HDD don't you? Is the hard drive quiet? Thanks.
Harddrive is quiet as it is SSD.
Have one, to die for.
You really need to try a raspberry pi with the Allo hat digital out, its quite good.
I was looking into one actually. It seems complicated.
I'm using the Allo usbridge signature player and I have to say it's a lot of quality for the money 💰
@@ThomasAndStereo it's really easy feel to reach out if you need any help
Thomas & Stereo I have the Allo Digione Signature, great little streamer with Volumio, but it was a pain to set up if you aren’t that technical. Once setup, it has been fine
@@ThomasAndStereo I as well have just recently bought the Allo USBridge Signature with the linear power-supply called Shanti, all together just below 500,-€, Running moOde software as OS and it was not difficult to set it up to just play/stream from my NAS and Tidal. It only has quality USB out, no wifi, no SPDIF, and is as stripped down as much as possible for a small computer to reduce noise. I'm using the free APP mconnect on my iPhone to control the stream from my NAS and Tidal. I can as well stream from my MacBook with Audirvana to the device without any additional setup, only to select the device in Audirvana. Would love to see a comparison to the costly units.
What do you think of high end headphones/earphones ?
Or are you speaker only person?
Only into speakers.
1TB for 4 grand 😂😂😂😂 sounds like robbery to me.
But one of the most optimized 1 tb ssd on the planet for music!
I am using a 2011 Mac Mini (cost me $300 CAD used) with Audirvana and it sounds good. Also I heard that mechanical drives sound better than SSD, I am not sure if that is true.
@@dannyng5427 Only way to know is AB test it! Yeah Mac are pretty sought after for music server.
@@ThomasAndStereo I am pretty sure the MK3 sound better than the Mini. I have done AB test with Cambridge CXN V2, the Mini is more transparent, CXN has better dynamic but I prefer the Mini.
It provides a better digital signal
Especially if you are streaming
Wish this unit had built in Chromecast.
That's interesting to hear that this is comparable (within 5%) to a CD transport. So where does that leave us if considering the Taiko Audio Extreme music server (24K euros for the base model). This surely then is daylight robbery if this machine at a fraction of the price is CD transport quality. Sound surely doesn't get better than this?
Well, even Innuos has a higher end model themselves.
@@ThomasAndStereo so what does that say unless Mr Cantor's Krell isn't up to the task! ; )
Hi Thomas! Thank you for the thoughts on the Zenith MK3. You spoke about it not working with every DAC because of ... I can't remember what you said. How would I be able to tell if the Zenith will work with a DAC or not? Thank you!
If your DAC does not need mac computer drivers, then it will work. Just go to manufacturer website for your DAC, if no mac driver ,then you are good.
This needs a streamer? What is the difference between a streamer and a server? How happy are you with your Lumin? I am planning on getting a Lumin as well (transport only). Thanks for the video.
This stuff is so confusing. And there are different types of streamers. I still don't understand the difference between a network player and a network bridge, and of course you can use either to stream music. I'm ready to give up lol
Khalid Akkad - you cannot give up! Thomas will explain it to us. I am confused too.
A streamer is a dac that will get music from the internet or from a music server.Not all streamer have a built in drive to house the music so it must get it from somewhere. I can explain better when I make the video on the Lumin streamer.
Thomas & Stereo - thank you!
Thomas & Stereo some streamers don't have a built in DAC though, such as SoTM sms 200 ultra. I have a server which serves as Roon core, a streamer that serves as Roon end point, and a DAC. All three separate.
Personally I just built a passively cooled HTPC with a SSD (Streacom FC-8A Chassis) which I built myself for a bit under a grand, and use my main desktop as my bulk storage from another room so I can't hear the hard drive when I stream music. For a DAC I am using a MiniDSP DDRC-24 with Dirac Live Processing via USB audio, and I can't see myself ever needing anything more. If there is noise there, I can't hear it. You can barely hear a tiny bit of hiss with your ears right up against the tweeters. I don't have much experience with high end DACs, and I honestly don't care to because it feels like the true money pit of return on your dollar in audio to me.
Not trying to sound smart, but this device appears to be a pretty standard computer with LPS, deadening and body tweaks?
I would love to blind test this vs my RPI.
Devices like this are just optimised PCs. An interesting video would be you and your friends in a blind test, changing streamer sources! See if you can pick the source.
Nah! I will be tramatized for life if I failed the blind test 🤣
I still dont get what does this do? Its like playback device or something? Can you use it with games or movies?
No, only music. Just think of it as a computer that only house music.
Hi Thomas.
I’m curious have you tired Roon?
I am actually reviewing roon right now.
@@ThomasAndStereo I love Roon. Changed the way I listen to music, its introduced me to so many new artists I never would have listened to. Nothing comes close to the user experience period. I use Ropieee XL on a RPI4 and Roon server on a windows PC, i7. Doesn't break a sweat doing DSD and convolution filters. I am actually looking to build active speakers (2 way 15inch Compression) using Roon for crossover duties. I sold my Pioneer n70a, Cambridge CXN v2 (which I don't rate) in favour of the RPI4 sound quality into my RME ADI2 Fs. I asked because I haven't heard you mention Roon compatibility on any of the streamers etc you test. IMO, you'll never use native control apps again.
4k? no way. it rhymes :)
I have the Zen, not zenith, Mk II and I love it thanks for the review
Nice I have to give it a try the Zen.
How does this compare to a nucleus?
Sorry, no idea.
Another very nice review...s
Next try a DDC or Reclocker like Mutec MC-3+ USB, or GD Audio DI-20HE. Innuos only output USB, so try these DDC Aes output in to your DAC. If your DAC is good, you will love the sound. IMO the Gustard is a little under-spec for your system.
Yes I agree for the Gustard so when I use the Lumin Streamer, there is a big difference.
Thank you Thomas for taking some time to review this unit. Zenith MK3 w/ Exogal ION power DAC combo and Roon has provided that final top 10% of performance I was searching for in my digital system. For those continuing to listen “old school” style this is not for you, to the rest choosing to use today’s available technology this is currently a pinnacle of performance if your wallet can take the hit and you want some of the best equipment available. Of course there are other choices/combos out there too that will provide this level of performance, unfortunately there are currently no “giant killers” that i auditioned, that will do it for “cheap”, SQ is subjective, YMMV, IMO, etc. Happy listening to all.
Thanks Nick for sharing you experience 😉
Does it play SACD?
I don't think so. Check specs on their website.
Well, I've been terminated. I bought the cheaper one, my wife wants to know where Thomas lives! She would like to pay him a visit.
Haha...it was nice knowing you.
Go for it
I dont know what it is but i also perfur cd and sacd. The new mofi cars heartbeat city is incredible lol
Maybe when you play thru your cdplayer, it sounds better than your current DAC with your computer?
@@ThomasAndStereo very true my dac isnt very good currently debating a audiobyte black dragon then buy anouther mit zcord2
@@dgreenly1 That looks like a really serious DAC. What is your current cdplayer?
@@ThomasAndStereo its nothing to great my friend sold me his dvp-s9000es and it sounds great to my ears
Did the Innuos sound better than the Lumin?
Lumin is a streamer so not the same.
@@markm5769 Yes but you will need a DAC. The Lumin, on the other hand need a drive as it cannot house music.
Amp designers should know the math to be able to voice those Large Hundred thousand dollars systems into more space s/cost savings designs.(Not Class D Hypex designs etc)
👍
Is it possible these expensive vendors have some hidden DSP that creates the difference you hear? IMO, the "optimisation" they listed sounds gimmicky as s##$$
I think gear with good power supply makes a difference. If you look at higher end gear, that is one thing they have in common. Is it DSP, I don't have the technical knowledge to even start guessing.
Hi Thomas Great video . I wish you would’ve included comparison with LUMIN streaming quality. After upgrading to LUMIN u1 mini .. I understands streamers are equally important as CD player or Turntable. If we are into streaming and Roon is the way to go for best experience. LUMIN U1 mini way better than my audiolab 6000CDT Transport and nice 2i.
I probably will touch on it a bit more when I talk about the Lumin streamer.
@Thomas & Stereo; thank you.
MS300 sounds interesting IF that hard-drive is replaced by SSD ...
are you gonna answer my ?
I thought I did. I have so many questions everyday that I don't remember which one. I remember telling you the problem with Titan, check out Focal and b&w. RUclips does not always notify me all the messages
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank You
So what do you think if I go with the Kanta 3, I have two parasound a21+ but only thing these speakers are no bi-amping so I would have to mono block them, solidstate. at 1000watts and they only take 300watts, what to do as I have all this power, it looks like i wasted money. would these give me sonic sounds or that does not matter. Please respond as i am about to spend more money on the focals.
I understand your opinions but for those that know a thing or two about pc`s, we can tell that the unit is not worth the price, even though it might sound better than what you have.
I would like you to try this to test against other servers. Get a mini pc (cheap one), buy an SSD if it doesn`t come with one. As for the tweaks, remove the wifi/bluetooth card, do this yourself or ask for someone to de-solder the usb ports that you don`t use, de-solder the integrated audio ports and chip, and after you`re done with that you can install a dedicated OS like Daphile,Volumio etc. All of this shouldn`t cost more than 100$, maybe more if you want to add a usb cleaner and a linear power supply.
Sure I understand all that. In fact I used to own a computer store and repair computers. As I said, this is a solution for certain people. If you meet as many audiophiles and heard as many system as I have, you will find everyone looks for different solutions. We all understand the whole idea about any gear is to minimize noise and for sure you can achieve a lot of amazing stuff by doing what you said. The SOTM server I have here is also another solution at an incredible price.
I do understand that the Zenith sounds very good as it should do because it`s been tweaked properly, but for me the hardware inside does not justify the price, just like many other products on the market, although someone else might have a different opinion.
They`re using a Supermicro motherboard and not one built by them , that mobo can be purchased by anyone else.
@@Spwrey I actually asked them about the motherboard cause another youtube brought that up which he later made another video to apologize for assuming that. No, no one can buy that motherboard, it even has a customized bios. Hardware alone never justifies the price and this is true if you look at everything in the industry. Look at a $1000 speaker, probably $100 in parts? But to bring something to market and the cost of doing business is something that needs to be factor in. Also, there are many things to consider, for example, the look of a product. The ease of use and so forth.
Indeed there are many things to factor in, but even though the server sounds really good, you can still get maybe 90%-95% of that just by doing the tweaks yourself at a much lower price. Although there are a lot of people that don`t bother with that, they just want to buy the device, plug it in and play music, and for them a server like the Zenith is perfect.
Bo Bo, if someone is running a very revealing system (aka hi-end) then the quality or price of the components that make up a product is a mute point. They are seeking the 'best' sound quality for them. I run such a system and can assure anyone that the Zenith is a serious piece of kit. If you can find/build a computer based system that equals it, then start doing so as it will sell very well. In the meantime, I will enjoy the streaming and server capabilities of the Zenith.
The new AURALiC 2.1 aries bridge will stream in a superior way to this innuous zenith 3,
No idea, I never AB tested it. If you did, what are the differences that you heard?
take the $$ and get a NAS Drive + Bluesound & then use the leftover cash go on a vacation.
I had the bluesound node 2i before and great little streamer but for a different market.
This Innuos Zenith MK 3 music server is on another level from Bluesound.
@@midorihibiki what level might that be on a scale of 1-10 ? worth 4x the cost - I think not (for me)- ... Rolls Royce is on another level vs a Corvette - - the Corvette will out perform all day long, --and be right there with any other car 5 times + the cost... what's the point?
@@Audiojunkabus You can search John Darko who has many music servers and streamers. He did a sound comparison of many budget to high end gears. I do not have Bluesound and Innous server so can not say but Innous Zenith MK 3 servers definitely win Bluesound in term of sound quality. Hope that could help you. Moreover in audiophile the more you spend money to buy better/high end gears does not mean you get the better performance to ratio money. So if you're happy with your gears then you can stop. However if you want more then you need to be rich or save more money, sometimes spend thousands, double, triple or even more but just get 5-10-15-20% better results.
5k a streamer? unless you have 10k DAC plus a 2k digital cable, now days 15k DAC should have build in streamer. For me, it is no no.
In the audio world, there is no limit. Most expensive DAC I heard was $100k, different people shop at different level, now I just need to win that damm lottery.
@@ThomasAndStereo so true, poverty limits our imagination 😂
I could tell you how to convert the hard drive into an ssd, but you have to be committed to some serious nerd play. Youre gonna need a whole other computer with disk inputs to spare. One for the hard drive from the MS600 And another one for the SSD you wish to use. And youre going to have to look into a piece of software called MiniTool. If you can figure that much out the rest is pretty self explanatory.
Thanks for the tip, let me check out MiniTool.
Problem is windows cannot see the drive unless I 'do something to it' with disk manager and I don't want to risk changing anything on that harddrive.
@@ThomasAndStereo hmm. what exactly is it asking you to do? you should be able to mark that drive as active or something. I'm surprised minitool doesnt detect the ms600 drive by itself.
Uncle Thomas tell me a story please 🤖
Bed time story, my videos will put you to sleep
Interesting that you say ‘what I say here should apply to the cheaper model’! er… hmm….wh…
BTW, X26 has a terrible USB input design, I believe the Innuos will improve the sound performance. Get a U16, it will dramatically eliminate the Innuos' influence.
That is what I have read and I was wondering why people say that.
@@ThomasAndStereo U16 the whole device is for feeding nice I2S signal to DAC, it's not perfect but much better than the USB interface in X26. It should be integrated into X26, but obviously, the designer decided to cut the cost.
Thomas take a look at OCD HIFI Guy’s review of this unit. He cans it. Second take a look at alternatives. Simpler servers and compare quality for audio. Another minefield in Hi-Fi... take care.
I see but I think he then made a video and reversed his position. ruclips.net/video/M9L7XFz1h-s/видео.html
Thomas & Stereo pulled his direction fast. Wondering if he was warned of legal action. Lots of contrition. Anyway, make your views it’s popular sport.
@@JingoLoBa57 I don't live in the States so I don't know about if they can sue but if that is the case, wouldn't it be easier just to take down the original video? Also I noticed he never even heard the unit so...
Thomas & Stereo lets not speculate here...🙊
That high frequency ring is very annoying
you said " every time you dealing computer , you lose fidelity ". of cause, because your network sucks. any gear you attached RJ45 you lost 40% FIDELITY, regardless you have million dollar setup. you need good switch + CAT wire. no switching PS on modem/router .. etc...
I have to say you must have a terrible DAC. This product will improve the sound more noticeable when you connect it to a low price DAC which is designed 2-3 years ago.
I had a few, Ares2, Musical Paradise, Topping D90, SMSL 400 and the list goes on but I decided to use the Gustard.
@@ThomasAndStereoDid you try D90 with Innuos? I heard D90 has very well designed USB input, so I doubt Innuos can improve anything noticeable.
Innuos again? One of the most controversial & overpriced items in the HiFi industry. The one exception is the pricing of the two Roon Nucleus music servers. [ See RUclips Video: "Debunking the music server, streamer, end point, bridge, renderer etc Part #1"] I still recommend building an Intel NUC Roon ROCK music server for the DYI people or buying a Small Green Computer [SONICTRANSPORTER I5] music server. The entry level ZEN MINI MK3 1TB is also a better buy.
Yeah, they have offered me to review the Zen Mini.
@ Bryon B. Roon Nucleus music servers are just Nuc systems. Roon buy them and modified them and install Roon Rock on them. They admit it on their website and I think they're overpriced too if you compare them to Innuos music server but whatever they do sound good that's the matter. If you could make your own computers sound good as them then you can sell as high as they do.
So they basically failed. I buy 3k plus box that does not work flawless with mid to hi end DACs? Nobody cares it is basically a pc. It is a player for all intents and purposes, and this player requires drivers, does not send word clock, compatibility is meh at best... it is a fail. They need to output optic, AES and I2S with, a dedicated word clock included, and proper software
Network player with CD reader? Facepalm. Just get a dcs bridge, audiobyte, wavelight or aries g2 and leave this CD trash behind.
Well some songs we love are not available for streaming. Especially a lot of the chinese songs I listen to.
@@ThomasAndStereo Rip your entire collection then toss the CDs or sell w/e. Good to go.
"one of the best music server"
This is gramatically wrong!
The correct way to say it is:
"ONE OF THE BEST MUSIC SERVERS"
Explanation: what you mean to say is one of the MANY.
The way you say it is "one of the one" please don't forget to add "s" to the many items you are referring to.
You have one of the pair of earS I trust most among RUclips audio reviewers
Thanks and please also do help me correct in the future, I will correct it shortly. Appreciate it.
@@ThomasAndStereo I am gratified to see the correction! Needless to say it also applies to conversations.