Thomas this is to thank you for an informative review which lead to my purchase of the Aperion dual firing air motion ribnon super tweeter: product is as you described it,
After 23 years, in 2023 I bought thin-film AMT ribbon tweeter speaker GoldenEar BRX and I love them so much that I bought a 3rd one as the center speaker for the home teater. source=Apple Music lossless
i fully agree with you. In the past one year, I bought Emotosound beryllium supertweeter, Aperion Ribbon supertweeter, Fortex T90, Fortex T96, Realistic, and added to my Vandersteen Model 2, Usher Compass, Yamaha NS1000M, ESS AMT Monitor, and ESS AMT-1. The top end sparkles. I am 63 and probably my hearing on the high frequencies has deteriorated, so adding super tweeters add more life to the music. I think it is necessary to try different super tweeters to mix and match what is best on your speakers. They all sound different, so it is best to try different brands/models to see what match best with your speakers. Super tweeters are now permanent fixtures on my speakers.
Great insight, thank you for sharing your findings. I ordered a pair of the entry level Aperions only last week . Waiting for them to come in so watching your review has given me solid hope as I have never experianced super tweeters before. Thank you again.
I've had Aperion Super-tweeters for years now. Love 'em! The really help augment soft-dome tweeters on certain speakers. They really help them to shine. Great video; I am really happy to see someone talk about this. :)
Hey, do they need a special position, like being on top of the tweeter for time alignment? I’m guessing yes. I was listening to the samples with bad aka Bluetooth headphones and I can tell there’s a diference. I can’t say what it is, if I’m listening to the room or time alignment problems or just a bad mix. There’s some weird inflections in the girls voice which, until I listen with better gear, I can’t put my finger on…
For me, I just place them on-top of my existing speakers, slightly towed in to match the speakers. They are right above the tweeters on the speakers and I've experienced no issues. Get the best gear that you can and have fun. :) @@renatomorais8136
@@Audiofreak71 I must rewatch it then. I know he mentions positioning regarding what you get with toe-in and out or facing a wall. But I was thinking more of something like this: I have a pair of Lintons on the original stands and no vinyl collection. What would happen with a supertweeter down there, near the floor, maybe pointing up. Does it need to be near the tweeter or is it like a subwoofer? I imagine it's not, given the frequencies and how sound behave in those. But I'm going to rewatch it, this is something I had put out of my mind with my previous speakers and the research I did then, so I was surprised to learn that Thomas had good things to say about this.
It’s a great idea, and the concept has been around for a long time. In the early 1970’s I had a pair of Dynaco A25’s attached to a Pioneer SX-727. I loved that system but it could have used a bit more sparkle on top so at some point I got a pair of Microstatics from Micro/Acoustics Corp. Each was an array of 4 tweeters in a small angled enclosure. It sat on top of the A25’s and I could point it in any direction to tune the sound. Fun! Great video Thomas!
I own the Aperion super tweeter. I combine them with Dynaudio special 40, sub Kef Kc 62....Hegel H300 amp. This combo is a musical experience that exceeds my expectations....
Agree. Super tweeters are amazing. Learned this from a set of vintage RTR Magnum 12 speakers years ago. Have good results with XO's at 20khz (2nd order) and 23khz (1st order) on two sets of DIY speakers. I use pro drivers for the super tweeters for about $60 a pair + $30 for XO parts.
IMHO, you are minimizing the challenges of integrating a super tweeter into an existing system. From what I know, you usually do not want to have it firing forward due to comb filtering effects. Usually, the super tweeter is back firing or upward firing. The dipole super tweeter is interesting, but I do not see how it avoids comb filtering. Integrating a sub is MUCH less problematic. Very often, the bass placement for a sub is not where the speakers are positioned. With a sub, you can move the sub around to the place in the room where it works the best. Personally, I prefer dual subs as this can better address room modes. The other issued mentioned by others is cost. A good super tweeter is costly just as subs can be costly. People should keep in mind that super tweeters mostly operate outside of human hearing range. We experience this range as “airy-ness.” In 2 channel sound, the majority of music does not go below 40hz. So depending on your musical tastes, a sub may not be needed. Finally, before going down this path, I would ask if you are happy with your existing speakers. Maybe what you want is a new pair of speakers that better address your sonic needs as opposed to putting bandaids on speakers that no longer suit your needs.
You are correct, not ease to integrate a super tweeter, IMHO. Need to set the XO high (20khz+, 2nd order or greater XO) to minimize comb filtering at the upper mid range frequencies. There are many other consideration as well, like phase and impedance matching. There is a slight trade off, but when done right, it sounds amazing. Front firing super tweeter sounds much better than angling the tweeter up or back (sounds artificial to my ears).
It's funny that this video came out the day I received my midlevel Aperion Super Tweeters. I'm a super fan of the super tweeter. I tested first with a pair of inexpensive radio shack super tweeters to see if it would make a difference then decided to go with the Aperion. Thomas said the exact thing that I felt, 1st MORE bass! It's crazy how tight my bass sounds. 2nd sweet highs and dreamy air/soundstage. I'm a little sensitive so I point mine a few degrees toward the ceiling. Cannot speak about newer speakers but I think that these would make most vintage speakers that tend to sound a little wooly sound much, much better. I run a pair of Bozak B302As. Thanks Thomas !!!
There´s a difference between Subs and these add-on tweeters: Subs are to extend(!) the lower frequencies many (also high-end) speakers are not capable of reproducing loud enough in the room. Those tweeters add /overlay signal to the already existing tweeter signals to add more "sparkle", "air". etc. If you would extend existing tweeter range, you won´t hear or recognize anything. An EQ would be a better solution as you would not have a second tweeter source that produces phase shifts. Could be a solution for broadbandspeaker systems or similar.
A sub makes sense since the wave lengths are meters long and you can place it anywhere. A super tweeter produces very short wave lengths. It would need to be placed less than an inch from the the speakers tweeter or else you get comb filtering.
The problem with Super tweeters is placements and phase-coherency. Where a subwoofer improves the sounds by placement, a super tweeter does not have this advantage. Moreover, if you have a good pair of speakers, you don't need the super tweeter because the upper frequencies are already taken care off. So I think they have their place, but not to the point where a subwoofer can always bring improvement to the sound.
I do similar setup, to a pair of Klipsch RF3-2, I added a pair of Infinity Qe with its EMT famous tweeter or a pair of Philips MCD700 with its nice ribbon tweeters. It adds sparkle to the Klipsch and its sound stage. It isn't the best match but I can see where the Aperion super tweeter with all the adjustments available comes in on the cheap. Thanks for the review.
I added these to my Wharfedale EVO 4.4, that have a gorgeous mid/high end, but slightly veiled. These were night and day difference! Easy to incorporate with a little work. Good video, but would have liked a bit more detail on the actual tweeters...
Thanks for your review Thomas. I have heard of them but couldn't remember the product name till now. Yay I can't wait to hear them with my Wharfedale Lintons! Happy New Year to you!
I am 62 & can still hear 17 Khrz. I know most can not hear much above that so what I might call it instead of audio hearing I would suggest its etheric feeling, a magnetic infuence entering into the aura field & as such I agree is pleasant & beneficial. I built a pair of speakers years ago & drilled a hole on top for a added Pizo tweeter for Cymbals & high hat sound reproduction. I got many compliments on those Rebuilt Technics cabinets for there sound.
Super tweeter is the last thing most systems need. Especially funny to see one on top of a system with a beryllium tweeter. Also adding a dipole on top of a monopole - another brilliant suggestion.
Super tweeters high in the door near the glass in my old honda really improved it's sound. Car speakers are often placed low in the front door so your ears are our of the tweeters dispersion pattern.
I brought 2 pairs of the AMT Dual Firing Super Tweeters for my home theater last week, by far the best upgrade I have ever made. I am in Australia and when the company I brought them from re-stock I will buy a third pair, they are that good.
I have a a pair of Supertweeters that ive used on multiple different pairs of speakers, Ive found them to make even average speakers to sound like much more expensive ones.. They are awesome for people who are becoming tired of their old speakers and want a bit of a lift.
Hi Thomas, happy new year. Interesting those super tweeters. I see it as a blast from the past. This is how it used to go for audiophiles from the 60's, you buy your speaker with full range driver. And then you would save some more money at which point you could buy a super tweeter. It seems we have come a full 360 degrees, or have we done a 180 degrees U turn? Any way, if anything, it can be entertaining and certainly educational to play with a super tweeter. You could do much worse with your upgrade money.
You all got to know that Thomas loves the top end ✨️ And a soundstage thats open and Airy ! Thanks Thomas HiFi is all about having fun and trying new things ! Remember the best tool you can have in your Audiophile tool bag is having an open mind ! The #1 thing i learned from Thomas 5 years ago !!
After 23 years, in 2023 I bought thin-film AMT ribbon tweeter speaker GoldenEar BRX and I love them so much that I bought a 3rd one as the center speaker for the home teater. source=Apple Music lossless
I bought a very nice pair of Aperion ST like the red ones shown here for my Polk LSIM 705s. It helped a lot. I don't think you need to spend several hundred on a pair of ST though. For what they do, a much more affordable pair can get you that much needed 8k + frequency.
Yep, I gave these a serious look about a year or two ago. Looked really tempting. But, I just felt that adding these to my tall multi-driver open baffle line arrays (already dipole) with 13 drivers a side already (1 ribbon tweeter) would somehow sound 'artificial'... And, NO! I do not do tone controls, sorry Mr.Thomas. Nothing unnecessary in the signal chain... But... like the speakers you mentioned, IF the top end of one's speaker is indeed rolled off, yes, then these would indeed be handy. These strike me as something to 'FIX' someone's system. FWIW, on my system the sound sample with the super tweeters to me sounded a bit artificially boosted, the sample without sounded more 'natural' to me. But, like you said, if someone's speakers are a bit dark (or kinc of closed in sounding - as opposed to an open baffle dipole system) then yes, I can see how these would 'help'
Many, if not most, of those early supertweeters were fairly inexpensive piezo jobs that were of dubious quality made just to boost high end.. These are very high quality and perform with soundstage, detail, and clarity, as well as boosting shy high end.
Excellent Thomas...I've had Aperion Audio MKII Planar-Magnetic's on top of my RSL CG5's for a few years...never occurred to me to face them backwards !! Really gave a nice effect. Thank you for the suggestion !!
For years I'm craving for elac Pi supertweters but way to expensive. Very happy with this review . I live in the Netherlands and can order a pair Germany for 999 euro 😊
Interesting topic and thank you Thomas for covering it. In addition to the potential negatives that you covered, I believe another one (i.e., the elephant in the room) could be listening fatigue. Absolutely no one is worried about listening fatigue when adding a subwoofer into their system, but the same can't be said about a bright tweeter let alone a super tweeter. With that said, I can absolutely appreciate all the benefits of adding a pair to my system, and will keep this option in mind. For now, new SS amp monoblocs paired to a high end tube preamplifier is on my wish list.
If set up right, it only adds air and will not give you that high pitch sound resulting in listening fatigue. For me, listening fatigue frequency is way lower than that. Maybe in the 1 to 10khz.
@ThomasAndStereo Thank you Thomas. That is very good to know and will hopefully give your listeners peace of mind to consider these as a viable option for their systems.
Very important to note that the super tweeters must be matched with appropriately sensitive speakers published by Aperion. They may end up too bright in less sensitive systrms.
I use full range drivers with super tweeters for the mids and highs. I have an array of 4 subwoofers distributed asymmetrically . I cross at 50htz. That's my approach. I'm happy.
The plural of driver is: drivers. You can’t use super-tweeters for mids and highs - they are physically unable to reproduce mids. But - using them as you’ve described will work extremely well.
@@n.lyndley.9889 thanks for the grammar notice, it's been corrected. Mids and highs are handled by the full range drivers and supertweeters. The full rangers go from 50htz to 16khtz, then the supertweeters go from 16khtz to 30khtz. I really love it a lot. And it does work very well. I have thought of tri-amping the system, then i go and listen to it the thought disappears.
I've had a pair of Aperion Audio PST Planar Magnetic Flat Ribbon Super Tweeters MKII since April of 2020. I use them to fill in the treble above 10 kHz on my Caintuck Audio Betsy single full range driver Open Baffle speakers which have a dip at about 12 kHz and start rolling off above about 16 kHz. They work great for my application. It took a bit of tweaking to find the right placement and orientation, gain level, and crossover frequency. Getting those parameters wrong made the super tweeters either do nothing audible to me or made the treble harsh. Getting those parameters right produced more extended sweet high frequency response than the Betsy open baffles could produce alone, even with equalization.
As I get older now 74 I start to miss the speech and other high tones on movies and TV and music. So for us oldsters a great tweeter opens up the world like it was in our 20s.
Agree with you on enjoying high frequecies, my current system uses silk dome tweeters and I would consider adding or changing the tweeters if I can properly integrate them.
Not easy to integrate, but well worth it. Need some DIY skills IMO. Match impedance is critical to your main drivers. Attenuation is usually necessary. From my experience, XO points should be high (20khz +). Placement to phase match your tweeter is also important. I have matched metal super tweeters with Scanspeak silk dome tweeters with good results.
Conversely, IME different cabling to Subs are not as easily discernable. But resonance control matters more with subs and less so with ST. @@ThomasAndStereo
Hope those cables were heavy enough :-) It would be nice if the top half (the driver) could swivel so the terminals could stay in the back. We always want more don't we? Can you comment on how the different models compare? Thanks!
In a similar vein, you see hybrid powered flagship speakers where the woofers are powered. In less expensive (non flagship) models, speakers tend to be fully powered or passive. The benefit of this kind of hybrid are clear: you can add power where it is needed to get the most out of your woofers. Why hasn’t this filtered down to more of the less expensive models, at least the larger stand mount speakers or floor standing towers? I just don’t see cost as a viable reason, at least for mid-range (in terms of price) speakers. Decent plate amps are just not that expensive today.
So instead to tweak the sound with an EQ to your liking, you change or add drivers to your liking ? As long the speaker can range between 16hz-20khz I found that for example the Pioneer DEH 50 PRS can tweak any speaker to sound good just with it¨s built in noise calibration
Hi Thomas! EXCELLENT work on the video! I have a pair of the Aperion Audio MKII Aluminum Ribbon Super Tweeters connected to a pair of their Verus III Grand V5B speakers. I have them connected via the top pair of five way binding posts. Set to 0dB 8kHz. They integrate seamlessly with the speakers. From my listening position they sound as if they are part of the speaker. I stream a lot of high resolution Jazz from Qobuz. The super tweeters really open up the top end and add detail. I also get some great vertical extension. I do use a sub to give the give the bottom end a boost. The subwoofer also blends seamlessly into the system. Have a GREAT one! 😎
ideally, a supertweeter shouldnt be noticable except when you turn it off, then the air and improved transient response you get clear across the spectrum and into the lows (which will seem to have extended ). ...hifitommy
Whenever you read Harry Pearson's review between the lines; he "gravitates" toward speakers that go beyond 20,000kh. A prime example is the Murata tweeter from Japan. indeed, there was a paper published in Japan stating the advantages of going ultra-sonic in stage presentation. Thus, this is not just for dogs!
For your dream speaker you need great base like from a fast and controlled 12'' maybe augmentet by an even faster LEMIM, fast and transparent mids like from an EMIM and a super tweeter like an EMIT - in other words you are in need of an 26 year old Infinity IRS Epsilon :-)... Happy new years everyone!
Damn it Thomas, you called me out directly- S400 mk1 owner. I’ve thought about adding super tweeters in the past as I’d like more top end and air. But at these prices (relative to cost of my speakers) I struggle with the thought that maybe a better investment to just get new/different speakers.
If it's more top end you want and you like your speakers other characteristics, then the upgrade is valid. It will give you effortless treble with finesse. Example: Water splash sounds more realistic, longer decay to high notes, and all. Basically, it's used as a magnifying glass to bring out the fine details of your content without the harshness. Super tweeter owner....
I highly (pun intended) doubt I need this for the Infinity 8 Kappas with dual ribbons. However for the Magnepan LRS I like the idea with the dipole one.
Wouldn't a super tweeter be very redundant for the LRS...? Adding the dipole version to speakers using a dome/horn tweeter would bring that LRS flair of ultra-wide soundstage and detail
Thomas, have you seen a RUclips video by Danny Richi (GR-Research) on the topic of adding supertweeters? Supertweeters sure can change sound of a system. However, it seems like if not used carefully supertweeters may do more harm than good.
I would add one more observation: few speaker OEMs use super tweeters in their designs and I think that is for good reason. If this was such a great upgrade, you would see a super tweeter in far more speakers. For sub woofers, you do not see OEMs offering subs as part of a speaker aside from sub sat systems. HOWEVER, there is a trend in 3-way systems to have the woofer be powered. You are also seeing hybrid systems where the tweeter and mid might be OB, but the woofer sealed or ported and powered. For larger systems in the midrange to upper end price range, I see that as a growing trend.
It's basically just a neodymium ribbon tweeter and many oem's do incorporate them into their designs, usually the flagship units as ribbons are expensive. For those you wouldn't need one of these.
It wasn't uncommon for a flagship loudspeaker to use dual subwoofer or bass arrays like the Infinity IRS. By 2000, nearly every speaker manufacturer offered and recommended a subwoofer to extend the frequency response of their loudspeakers. Even Jim Thiel created a subwoofer for his loudspeakers.
That’s a great idea for speakers that are too warm or rolled off. They may look a little odd sitting on top of your speakers but if it sounds better then who cares. Are there any phase issues with the acoustic Centre’s further apart? Thanks Thomas,and happy new year 🎉🥳
I spent a couple of hours with Max Townshend at his home one evening in 2001, maybe 2002 (picking up my Rock II after some attention) listening to his home system - LP, SACD, DVD-A and CD (on a Rock Reference TT and his customised Pioneer 747 disc player respectively). The Maximum Supertweeters (LoL!) left me perplexed - Max switched them in and out a couple of times and the change in the music really wasn't subtle. I had Max play them back alone, at a volume setting that would have had the police round if the (development) Glastonburys had been in, and from my listening position on the other side of the room I could _just, maybe_ hear something like a pair of earbuds might sound from that distance. One of the A/B's was a jazz ensemble and I really did hear a more realistic stand-up bass, more snap and attack and hence _weight_ to it. Psycho-acoustics.
This is my first time hearing of super tweeters, I may try them out, but not sure I’d be able to hook them up to my newest system, which is very simple, Kef LSX II and a Kube 8B.
Thanks for the promo code for saving$. Cymbals, piano and harmonica sound better on my wharfedale evo 4.4 speakers with the Aperion planar super tweeter!
Save your money. Just get a pair of small speakers and wire them in parallel to your stereo pair (amp permitting). Place the small speakers at your feet pointed towards your ears. In this configuration the sound stage opens up, and the individual components of the sound can be better unpacked including the highs. The small speakers should be around 1/10th the watt rating of the main stereo pair and barely audible when listening. Your hearing works on ~30 millisecond buffer so the sound from both the large and small speakers gets interpreted and resolved together as one. The Haas effect is at play as there is a slight difference in when the sound hits the ear from the small and main speakers. Our ears resolve the direction from the first sound the distance from the second. This configuration is particularly useful when it is not possible to position the main speakers 3 feet from the wall or with less impressive gear. Alternatively get a decent DSP which includes harmonic excitation and stage effects to make the most out of any setup.
just purchased a pair of super tweeters...hope they are good...there are built in crossover but no adjustment knobs...so lets hope they work out for me... REALISTIC SUPER TWEETER PAIR 40-1310A made in Japan any thoughts❓
I hear that this also works on surround sound systems. I have one that uses a set of satellite speakers. Would you recommend a super tweeter for such a setup and if so, how would you connect this? Would you just connect it to the center?
I‘m now 50 years old and sadly only can hear up to 10kHz. Because of that i now prefer more analytic, clear Loudspeakers, like the Monitor Audio Silver 100 that are to hard, bright for the most listeners. I really would like to hear those super Tweeters.
Well its the old problem like with sub units, to get all units (Sub/s and Super Tweeters) working with each other correctly one need to be running with an active crossover, its simply the way it is.
Danny Ritchie did a good video on supertweeters. i Built my own from parts express and have them mounted at a 30 degree angle pointing behind the speakers. it really opens up the sound. pointing them straight up was a bit too much so you should play around with them. pointing them forward is really really hard to get right. I use 3/4 inch tweeters w a second order filter at 4500 hz. total cost was $80. bought a prebuilt x over and its not fabulous quality but for the purpose its fine.
Hey Thomas, Once again, thanks for the brilliant review. as you know, I love my Galion TS120 and My speakers are Totem Signature One with a pair of JL e-110 subs. My gut is to go with the top of the line Aperion DST Dual. That said, you noted that the RST mid level unit performed better with some systems. do you have a line of sight into which unit might work best with my system. Many thanks, Derrick
You want a real wow moment, get a Umik 1 and use REW from room correction. It will also show you if you need a super tweeter, which likely you don't, given that most speakers don't have an issue hitting 20k vs a lot of speakers not being able to hit 20hz on the low end.
I have those because I am voicing a speaker so I use those all the time. The problem is not whether the tweeter can hit 20khz or not, most tweeters can, it depends how they limit the high frequency with the crossover, that is why 2 speakers using the same tweeter, one can sound dark while the other can sound bright.
@ThomasAndStereo Yes, but if you use REW and DSP then that can be corrected and costs less than $100. I use REW with Roon convolution filters and gave me that, holy smokes this sounds amazing. I think speakers that do equalization well at 20Hz to 20,000 HZ is the new way to evaluate speakers, since in room response is so variable from person to person.
@danieljung2810 That is actually how I voice my speakers, we create a specific curve with dsp and then we built the crossover to match that curve. The benefit is you can choose whatever curve, sound you want, the downside is most people will have a hard time implementing it. I was supposed to review a product that does similar to what you said but market as room correction.
Thomas you said in a previous video that you did not like air motion transformer tweeters because they lack the decay of domes… Make up your mind man. 😅
Hello, could you recommend which is appropriate for my Cornwall 4 speakers?? As sensitivity of the CW4 is 102Db??? Please let me know as I really thinking about above ST
Hello, Oliver from Le Studio, the super tweeters are a great add ons for mainly speakers that reach about 92 Dbs above this, you might hear a bit of a difference but maybe not as much as you might like. At 102 Dbs for the cornwalls or 99 Dbs for the Forte, you would not see that much of a difference. The setup chart included in the super tweeter’s instruction manuel goes to 89 Dbs. It worked with the KLH Model 5 even though they are 90.5 Dbs.
Adding a super tweeter reminds me of the Dali Kores which uses a dome tweeter combined with a ribbon tweeter which makes it a very super detailed and revealing speaker but at around 70K I can never afford it.
You are paying a lot of money for your speakers and then comes someone that says, you need another system for the low end (subwoofer) and for the high end (super tweeter) - hey come on 😉
Well bookshelfs usually have better sound quality then towers they won't have all the phase problems with multiple woofers and also will be able to put the subwoofers in the optimal bass spot the whole super tweeter thing is crazy being that far from the midrange woofer will create massive phase problems you'll have to mesure and move and use alot of dsp to get it corrected
@MasterofPlay7 for the most part most speakers in the under 5k a pair the bookshelfs will usually have better sound quality most companies cheap out at the crossover abd don't fix the phase problems with multiple woofers high end towers will ultimately sound better then the highend bookshelfs
What a wonderful review, very comprehensive and really gives me an idea of what to expect with them. I've been eyeing these for a while, just not sure how best to integrate them with my dipole planar magnetic speakers-entry are also planar but single sided. Top ones are 'Dual AMT', is that dipole or bipole (back driver in phase or out of phase with front driver)? Wonder if you had any experience with the sound changing if you positioned the supertweeters closer or further from the front baffle of the speaker-different phase relationship?
One can argue, it gets you closer to what the artist intended because your speaker might not be good enough to resolve the detail in their saliva to start off with 😀
Cool review. Definitely hear more detail on demo track even though my hearing dies at 11k. I like the crossover to dial it in. I could add that it would be useful to measure distance from ear to tweeter and match to your existing tweeter. I use a laser measure to time align drivers as a starting point then finish by ear.
I was struggling to integrate AMT model with my speakers. Then I reversed polarity - switching black and red speaker cables. It made a huge difference. Aperion AMT tweeters now nicely blend with my main speakers. Siblings are reduced making whole sistem enjoyable for long listening sessions while keeping detail and glare on top. Thomas, can you please explain the effect or if it even wise to do something like that? Thank you for the great video.
I have been voicing speakers for a while and with some design, you are supposed to reverse the polarity of the tweeter. However it is interesting in your case as it sounds like both your tweeter would be wired out of polarity from each other if you did it this way. I don't know enough to answer but perhaps you can ask your question on the forums. Here is an interesting discussion. www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/question-about-tweeter-polarity-2nd-order-crossover.201869/
Omg this looks like exactly what i need for my Q Acoustics Concept 500! I like everything they do, but just missing some air and sparkle at the top. Seems like these Aperions can fix that, but what model should i choose? Room is treated, with absorbers at points of first reflections.
The super tweeter has been around since the 80's that I know of. Why not just replace your normal tweeter. Or maybe a hyper squawker. So we end up with your normal speakers plus a pile of extra boxes.
Hi Mr T. I have questions: How does one know there's no comb filtering in a specific implementation without a measuring system like REW? Shouldn't the tweeters be as close as possible and on the same plane? Can you imagine a Magnepan implementation? This product seems like letting your 4 year old play with matches. I should imagine that a lot of speaker designers are rolling their eyes or spinning in their graves about now😅 🎵🎶🙄🎶🎵
Yeah, I hear you. Love the analogy of a 4-year-old playing with matches. Yes, the tweeter should be as close but, if it does not match well, then you would need to experiment at a different distance. Magnepan? I was too lazy to try.
Highly recommend using REW to see the response. These super tweeters are fast. You would have to set them back a little, so the timing can integrate with your speakers tweeter.
Well when pointing it back important to get alignment there, moving it forwards and backwards on the cabinet, maybe try it at the back edge of the cabinet. have you tried it on its side so it's working in the vertical more than the horizontal would be a better approach being a ribbon
Non-affiliated link and promo code. I don't get anything
Promo code - thomaspromo
lestudioduson.com/magasiner-%2F-shop/ols/categories/super-tweeter
Thomas this is to thank you for an informative review which lead to my purchase of the Aperion dual firing air motion ribnon super tweeter: product is as you described it,
@@chesrider2373 Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and appreciate my effort, hope you have a great time with it.
After 23 years, in 2023 I bought thin-film AMT ribbon tweeter speaker GoldenEar BRX and I love them so much that I bought a 3rd one as the center speaker for the home teater.
source=Apple Music lossless
i fully agree with you. In the past one year, I bought Emotosound beryllium supertweeter, Aperion Ribbon supertweeter, Fortex T90, Fortex T96, Realistic, and added to my Vandersteen Model 2, Usher Compass, Yamaha NS1000M, ESS AMT Monitor, and ESS AMT-1. The top end sparkles. I am 63 and probably my hearing on the high frequencies has deteriorated, so adding super tweeters add more life to the music. I think it is necessary to try different super tweeters to mix and match what is best on your speakers. They all sound different, so it is best to try different brands/models to see what match best with your speakers. Super tweeters are now permanent fixtures on my speakers.
Great insight, thank you for sharing your findings. I ordered a pair of the entry level Aperions only last week . Waiting for them to come in so watching your review has given me solid hope as I have never experianced super tweeters before. Thank you again.
I've had Aperion Super-tweeters for years now. Love 'em! The really help augment soft-dome tweeters on certain speakers. They really help them to shine. Great video; I am really happy to see someone talk about this. :)
Couldn't agree more!
Hey, do they need a special position, like being on top of the tweeter for time alignment? I’m guessing yes. I was listening to the samples with bad aka Bluetooth headphones and I can tell there’s a diference. I can’t say what it is, if I’m listening to the room or time alignment problems or just a bad mix. There’s some weird inflections in the girls voice which, until I listen with better gear, I can’t put my finger on…
@@renatomorais8136You must not have watched the video because Thomas answers that question about the super tweeter positioning.
For me, I just place them on-top of my existing speakers, slightly towed in to match the speakers. They are right above the tweeters on the speakers and I've experienced no issues. Get the best gear that you can and have fun. :) @@renatomorais8136
@@Audiofreak71 I must rewatch it then. I know he mentions positioning regarding what you get with toe-in and out or facing a wall. But I was thinking more of something like this: I have a pair of Lintons on the original stands and no vinyl collection. What would happen with a supertweeter down there, near the floor, maybe pointing up. Does it need to be near the tweeter or is it like a subwoofer? I imagine it's not, given the frequencies and how sound behave in those. But I'm going to rewatch it, this is something I had put out of my mind with my previous speakers and the research I did then, so I was surprised to learn that Thomas had good things to say about this.
It’s a great idea, and the concept has been around for a long time. In the early 1970’s I had a pair of Dynaco A25’s attached to a Pioneer SX-727. I loved that system but it could have used a bit more sparkle on top so at some point I got a pair of Microstatics from Micro/Acoustics Corp. Each was an array of 4 tweeters in a small angled enclosure. It sat on top of the A25’s and I could point it in any direction to tune the sound. Fun!
Great video Thomas!
Thanks for sharing!
I own the Aperion super tweeter. I combine them with Dynaudio special 40, sub Kef Kc 62....Hegel H300 amp. This combo is a musical experience that exceeds my expectations....
Agree. Super tweeters are amazing. Learned this from a set of vintage RTR Magnum 12 speakers years ago. Have good results with XO's at 20khz (2nd order) and 23khz (1st order) on two sets of DIY speakers. I use pro drivers for the super tweeters for about $60 a pair + $30 for XO parts.
IMHO, you are minimizing the challenges of integrating a super tweeter into an existing system. From what I know, you usually do not want to have it firing forward due to comb filtering effects. Usually, the super tweeter is back firing or upward firing. The dipole super tweeter is interesting, but I do not see how it avoids comb filtering.
Integrating a sub is MUCH less problematic. Very often, the bass placement for a sub is not where the speakers are positioned. With a sub, you can move the sub around to the place in the room where it works the best. Personally, I prefer dual subs as this can better address room modes.
The other issued mentioned by others is cost. A good super tweeter is costly just as subs can be costly. People should keep in mind that super tweeters mostly operate outside of human hearing range. We experience this range as “airy-ness.” In 2 channel sound, the majority of music does not go below 40hz. So depending on your musical tastes, a sub may not be needed. Finally, before going down this path, I would ask if you are happy with your existing speakers. Maybe what you want is a new pair of speakers that better address your sonic needs as opposed to putting bandaids on speakers that no longer suit your needs.
Good valid points, I think investing in a sub first makes more sense and a Super tweeter down the road if budget permits.
You are correct, not ease to integrate a super tweeter, IMHO. Need to set the XO high (20khz+, 2nd order or greater XO) to minimize comb filtering at the upper mid range frequencies. There are many other consideration as well, like phase and impedance matching. There is a slight trade off, but when done right, it sounds amazing. Front firing super tweeter sounds much better than angling the tweeter up or back (sounds artificial to my ears).
It's funny that this video came out the day I received my midlevel Aperion Super Tweeters. I'm a super fan of the super tweeter. I tested first with a pair of inexpensive radio shack super tweeters to see if it would make a difference then decided to go with the Aperion. Thomas said the exact thing that I felt, 1st MORE bass! It's crazy how tight my bass sounds. 2nd sweet highs and dreamy air/soundstage. I'm a little sensitive so I point mine a few degrees toward the ceiling. Cannot speak about newer speakers but I think that these would make most vintage speakers that tend to sound a little wooly sound much, much better. I run a pair of Bozak B302As. Thanks Thomas !!!
There´s a difference between Subs and these add-on tweeters: Subs are to extend(!) the lower frequencies many (also high-end) speakers are not capable of reproducing loud enough in the room. Those tweeters add /overlay signal to the already existing tweeter signals to add more "sparkle", "air". etc. If you would extend existing tweeter range, you won´t hear or recognize anything. An EQ would be a better solution as you would not have a second tweeter source that produces phase shifts. Could be a solution for broadbandspeaker systems or similar.
There's no point. He's just trying to make a buck.
A sub makes sense since the wave lengths are meters long and you can place it anywhere. A super tweeter produces very short wave lengths. It would need to be placed less than an inch from the the speakers tweeter or else you get comb filtering.
The problem with Super tweeters is placements and phase-coherency.
Where a subwoofer improves the sounds by placement, a super tweeter does not have this advantage. Moreover, if you have a good pair of speakers, you don't need the super tweeter because the upper frequencies are already taken care off. So I think they have their place, but not to the point where a subwoofer can always bring improvement to the sound.
Yup agree, so that is why I mentioned it might not work for some people no matter what you do.
@@ThomasAndStereo In fact it might not work for the most of people. Due to the law of physics (sound wave interference).
That does not even get into the comb filtering effects of multiple tweeters.
I do similar setup, to a pair of Klipsch RF3-2, I added a pair of Infinity Qe with its EMT famous tweeter or a pair of Philips MCD700 with its nice ribbon tweeters. It adds sparkle to the Klipsch and its sound stage.
It isn't the best match but I can see where the Aperion super tweeter with all the adjustments available comes in on the cheap. Thanks for the review.
This reminds me of when RadioShack was selling a super tweeter back in the 80s and 90s
I added these to my Wharfedale EVO 4.4, that have a gorgeous mid/high end, but slightly veiled. These were night and day difference! Easy to incorporate with a little work. Good video, but would have liked a bit more detail on the actual tweeters...
Thanks for sharing!
How long did you live with bad sound before these super tweeters?
Thanks for your review Thomas. I have heard of them but couldn't remember the product name till now. Yay I can't wait to hear them with my Wharfedale Lintons! Happy New Year to you!
Happy new year🎉
How did you get on pairing with Lintons? Did they make much difference and what setting worked best? Cheers
I have a pair on order. Looking forward to hearing them!
I am 62 & can still hear 17 Khrz. I know most can not hear much above that so what I might call it instead of audio hearing I would suggest its etheric feeling, a magnetic infuence entering into the aura field & as such I agree is pleasant & beneficial. I built a pair of speakers years ago & drilled a hole on top for a added Pizo tweeter for Cymbals & high hat sound reproduction. I got many compliments on those Rebuilt Technics cabinets for there sound.
Super tweeter is the last thing most systems need.
Especially funny to see one on top of a system with a beryllium tweeter.
Also adding a dipole on top of a monopole - another brilliant suggestion.
Super tweeters high in the door near the glass in my old honda really improved it's sound.
Car speakers are often placed low in the front door so your ears are our of the tweeters dispersion pattern.
I brought 2 pairs of the AMT Dual Firing Super Tweeters for my home theater last week, by far the best upgrade I have ever made.
I am in Australia and when the company I brought them from re-stock I will buy a third pair, they are that good.
Congrats!
I love the high end like many love the low sound of a subwoofer. Can't wait to get this. Thank you for another great video.
I have a a pair of Supertweeters that ive used on multiple different pairs of speakers, Ive found them to make even average speakers to sound like much more expensive ones.. They are awesome for people who are becoming tired of their old speakers and want a bit of a lift.
Hi Thomas, happy new year. Interesting those super tweeters. I see it as a blast from the past. This is how it used to go for audiophiles from the 60's, you buy your speaker with full range driver. And then you would save some more money at which point you could buy a super tweeter. It seems we have come a full 360 degrees, or have we done a 180 degrees U turn? Any way, if anything, it can be entertaining and certainly educational to play with a super tweeter. You could do much worse with your upgrade money.
Haha, just like fashion, it comes back. Happy new year.
You all got to know that Thomas loves the top end ✨️
And a soundstage thats open and Airy !
Thanks Thomas HiFi is all about having fun and trying new things !
Remember the best tool you can have in your Audiophile tool bag is having an open mind !
The #1 thing i learned from Thomas 5 years ago !!
You bet!
After 23 years, in 2023 I bought thin-film AMT ribbon tweeter speaker GoldenEar BRX and I love them so much that I bought a 3rd one as the center speaker for the home teater.
source=Apple Music lossless
I bought a very nice pair of Aperion ST like the red ones shown here for my Polk LSIM 705s. It helped a lot. I don't think you need to spend several hundred on a pair of ST though. For what they do, a much more affordable pair can get you that much needed 8k + frequency.
Yeah, I did not AB test them so I don't know how different they are but the entry level one should be good enough.
They sit securely on top of the 705's? didn't know if the curved top would be an issue
@@kaneda7katsuragi You can buy one of these platform specifically made for situation like this. www.aperionaudio.com/products/super-tweeter-stand
@kaneda7katsuragi lol they manage to stay up there. It hasn't really been an issue, but it would be if someone bumped into them. You have the 705s?
@ThomasAndStereo cool to know but mine have lived on top of my 705s for years and no issues. To pay $90 for that would be hard to justify
I just upgraded my Processor and went with Monoblocks. Next Christmas these are in my upgrade list!! ❤
Nice!
Yep, I gave these a serious look about a year or two ago. Looked really tempting. But, I just felt that adding these to my tall multi-driver open baffle line arrays (already dipole) with 13 drivers a side already (1 ribbon tweeter) would somehow sound 'artificial'... And, NO! I do not do tone controls, sorry Mr.Thomas. Nothing unnecessary in the signal chain... But... like the speakers you mentioned, IF the top end of one's speaker is indeed rolled off, yes, then these would indeed be handy. These strike me as something to 'FIX' someone's system. FWIW, on my system the sound sample with the super tweeters to me sounded a bit artificially boosted, the sample without sounded more 'natural' to me. But, like you said, if someone's speakers are a bit dark (or kinc of closed in sounding - as opposed to an open baffle dipole system) then yes, I can see how these would 'help'
I remember super tweeters being popular back in the 90's and early 2000's. I wonder why they fell off in popularity.
Maybe these days almost all speakers have tweeters that can go pretty high in kHz.
I wasn't aware of this. I thought just the Uber expensive speakers came with ST. @@ThomasAndStereo
Super tweeters were popular in 70s. I have one pair from that era, sounded beautiful.
And you noticed that at some point you could only hear frequencies up to 12kHz.
Many, if not most, of those early supertweeters were fairly inexpensive piezo jobs that were of dubious quality made just to boost high end.. These are very high quality and perform with soundstage, detail, and clarity, as well as boosting shy high end.
Excellent Thomas...I've had Aperion Audio MKII Planar-Magnetic's on top of my RSL CG5's for a few years...never occurred to me to face them backwards !! Really gave a nice effect. Thank you for the suggestion !!
Awesome!
For years I'm craving for elac Pi supertweters but way to expensive.
Very happy with this review . I live in the Netherlands and can order a pair Germany for 999 euro 😊
Interesting topic and thank you Thomas for covering it.
In addition to the potential negatives that you covered, I believe another one (i.e., the elephant in the room) could be listening fatigue.
Absolutely no one is worried about listening fatigue when adding a subwoofer into their system, but the same can't be said about a bright tweeter let alone a super tweeter.
With that said, I can absolutely appreciate all the benefits of adding a pair to my system, and will keep this option in mind.
For now, new SS amp monoblocs paired to a high end tube preamplifier is on my wish list.
If set up right, it only adds air and will not give you that high pitch sound resulting in listening fatigue. For me, listening fatigue frequency is way lower than that. Maybe in the 1 to 10khz.
@ThomasAndStereo Thank you Thomas. That is very good to know and will hopefully give your listeners peace of mind to consider these as a viable option for their systems.
@@ThomasAndStereo Agreed, listening fatigue for me is in the upper midrange and lower treble region.
Very important to note that the super tweeters must be matched with appropriately sensitive speakers published by Aperion. They may end up too bright in less sensitive systrms.
yeah those sounds above 20kHz you must be very careful otherwise you will hear too much of it.
My Speakers are 89% efficient (see question to Thomas for more detail of my system).
In your opinion do they seem like a potencial mach.
Wow, this is new! Thanks for the great information!
I use full range drivers with super tweeters for the mids and highs. I have an array of 4 subwoofers distributed asymmetrically . I cross at 50htz. That's my approach. I'm happy.
Good stuff!
The plural of driver is: drivers.
You can’t use super-tweeters for mids and highs - they are physically unable to reproduce mids.
But - using them as you’ve described will work extremely well.
@@n.lyndley.9889 thanks for the grammar notice, it's been corrected. Mids and highs are handled by the full range drivers and supertweeters. The full rangers go from 50htz to 16khtz, then the supertweeters go from 16khtz to 30khtz. I really love it a lot.
And it does work very well. I have thought of tri-amping the system, then i go and listen to it the thought disappears.
I've had a pair of Aperion Audio PST Planar Magnetic Flat Ribbon Super Tweeters MKII since April of 2020. I use them to fill in the treble above 10 kHz on my Caintuck Audio Betsy single full range driver Open Baffle speakers which have a dip at about 12 kHz and start rolling off above about 16 kHz.
They work great for my application. It took a bit of tweaking to find the right placement and orientation, gain level, and crossover frequency. Getting those parameters wrong made the super tweeters either do nothing audible to me or made the treble harsh. Getting those parameters right produced more extended sweet high frequency response than the Betsy open baffles could produce alone, even with equalization.
Congrats on getting it to integrate well.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you for your video on the Aperion super tweeters.
As I get older now 74 I start to miss the speech and other high tones on movies and TV and music. So for us oldsters a great tweeter opens up the world like it was in our 20s.
I've always used external JBL 077 crystal slot tweeters as super tweeters. These aperion supers tweeters have peaked my interest.
Always wanted to try the Aperion super tweeters in my system. Thanx for the review.
Agree with you on enjoying high frequecies, my current system uses silk dome tweeters and I would consider adding or changing the tweeters if I can properly integrate them.
Not easy to integrate, but well worth it. Need some DIY skills IMO. Match impedance is critical to your main drivers. Attenuation is usually necessary. From my experience, XO points should be high (20khz +). Placement to phase match your tweeter is also important. I have matched metal super tweeters with Scanspeak silk dome tweeters with good results.
Great video. Two things I like to add. Cabling to ST matters. Experiment with ST placement matters also.
Cables!!! You are brave to mention that 😀
Conversely, IME different cabling to Subs are not as easily discernable. But resonance control matters more with subs and less so with ST. @@ThomasAndStereo
Hope those cables were heavy enough :-) It would be nice if the top half (the driver) could swivel so the terminals could stay in the back. We always want more don't we? Can you comment on how the different models compare? Thanks!
In a similar vein, you see hybrid powered flagship speakers where the woofers are powered. In less expensive (non flagship) models, speakers tend to be fully powered or passive. The benefit of this kind of hybrid are clear: you can add power where it is needed to get the most out of your woofers. Why hasn’t this filtered down to more of the less expensive models, at least the larger stand mount speakers or floor standing towers? I just don’t see cost as a viable reason, at least for mid-range (in terms of price) speakers. Decent plate amps are just not that expensive today.
So instead to tweak the sound with an EQ to your liking, you change or add drivers to your liking ? As long the speaker can range between 16hz-20khz I found that for example the Pioneer DEH 50 PRS can tweak any speaker to sound good just with it¨s built in noise calibration
In my system, the benefits can only be heard to listeners in the sweet spot. Makes my rig sounds great on both Mozart string quartets and death metal.
It made a difference
Hi Thomas! EXCELLENT work on the video! I have a pair of the Aperion Audio MKII Aluminum Ribbon Super Tweeters connected to a pair of their Verus III Grand V5B speakers. I have them connected via the top pair of five way binding posts. Set to 0dB 8kHz. They integrate seamlessly with the speakers. From my listening position they sound as if they are part of the speaker. I stream a lot of high resolution Jazz from Qobuz. The super tweeters really open up the top end and add detail. I also get some great vertical extension. I do use a sub to give the give the bottom end a boost. The subwoofer also blends seamlessly into the system. Have a GREAT one! 😎
ideally, a supertweeter shouldnt be noticable except when you turn it off, then the air and improved transient response you get clear across the spectrum and into the lows (which will seem to have extended ).
...hifitommy
Whenever you read Harry Pearson's review between the lines; he "gravitates" toward speakers that go beyond 20,000kh. A prime example is the Murata tweeter from Japan. indeed, there was a paper published in Japan stating the advantages of going ultra-sonic in stage presentation. Thus, this is not just for dogs!
For your dream speaker you need great base like from a fast and controlled 12'' maybe augmentet by an even faster LEMIM, fast and transparent mids like from an EMIM and a super tweeter like an EMIT - in other words you are in need of an 26 year old Infinity IRS Epsilon :-)...
Happy new years everyone!
Damn it Thomas, you called me out directly- S400 mk1 owner. I’ve thought about adding super tweeters in the past as I’d like more top end and air. But at these prices (relative to cost of my speakers) I struggle with the thought that maybe a better investment to just get new/different speakers.
Yeah, probably better to just upgrade the whole speaker.
If it's more top end you want and you like your speakers other characteristics, then the upgrade is valid. It will give you effortless treble with finesse. Example: Water splash sounds more realistic, longer decay to high notes, and all. Basically, it's used as a magnifying glass to bring out the fine details of your content without the harshness. Super tweeter owner....
I highly (pun intended) doubt I need this for the Infinity 8 Kappas with dual ribbons. However for the Magnepan LRS I like the idea with the dipole one.
Wouldn't a super tweeter be very redundant for the LRS...? Adding the dipole version to speakers using a dome/horn tweeter would bring that LRS flair of ultra-wide soundstage and detail
Thomas, have you seen a RUclips video by Danny Richi (GR-Research) on the topic of adding supertweeters? Supertweeters sure can change sound of a system. However, it seems like if not used carefully supertweeters may do more harm than good.
I would add one more observation: few speaker OEMs use super tweeters in their designs and I think that is for good reason. If this was such a great upgrade, you would see a super tweeter in far more speakers.
For sub woofers, you do not see OEMs offering subs as part of a speaker aside from sub sat systems. HOWEVER, there is a trend in 3-way systems to have the woofer be powered. You are also seeing hybrid systems where the tweeter and mid might be OB, but the woofer sealed or ported and powered. For larger systems in the midrange to upper end price range, I see that as a growing trend.
Good point, something to consider.
It's basically just a neodymium ribbon tweeter and many oem's do incorporate them into their designs, usually the flagship units as ribbons are expensive. For those you wouldn't need one of these.
@@TheTruthKiwi I agree with you.
It wasn't uncommon for a flagship loudspeaker to use dual subwoofer or bass arrays like the Infinity IRS. By 2000, nearly every speaker manufacturer offered and recommended a subwoofer to extend the frequency response of their loudspeakers. Even Jim Thiel created a subwoofer for his loudspeakers.
That’s a great idea for speakers that are too warm or rolled off. They may look a little odd sitting on top of your speakers but if it sounds better then who cares. Are there any phase issues with the acoustic Centre’s further apart? Thanks Thomas,and happy new year 🎉🥳
I spent a couple of hours with Max Townshend at his home one evening in 2001, maybe 2002 (picking up my Rock II after some attention) listening to his home system - LP, SACD, DVD-A and CD (on a Rock Reference TT and his customised Pioneer 747 disc player respectively). The Maximum Supertweeters (LoL!) left me perplexed - Max switched them in and out a couple of times and the change in the music really wasn't subtle. I had Max play them back alone, at a volume setting that would have had the police round if the (development) Glastonburys had been in, and from my listening position on the other side of the room I could _just, maybe_ hear something like a pair of earbuds might sound from that distance. One of the A/B's was a jazz ensemble and I really did hear a more realistic stand-up bass, more snap and attack and hence _weight_ to it. Psycho-acoustics.
This is my first time hearing of super tweeters, I may try them out, but not sure I’d be able to hook them up to my newest system, which is very simple, Kef LSX II and a Kube 8B.
I don't think you need is for that speaker.
Thanks for the promo code for saving$. Cymbals, piano and harmonica sound better on my wharfedale evo 4.4 speakers with the Aperion planar super tweeter!
Enjoy!
Save your money. Just get a pair of small speakers and wire them in parallel to your stereo pair (amp permitting). Place the small speakers at your feet pointed towards your ears. In this configuration the sound stage opens up, and the individual components of the sound can be better unpacked including the highs. The small speakers should be around 1/10th the watt rating of the main stereo pair and barely audible when listening. Your hearing works on ~30 millisecond buffer so the sound from both the large and small speakers gets interpreted and resolved together as one. The Haas effect is at play as there is a slight difference in when the sound hits the ear from the small and main speakers. Our ears resolve the direction from the first sound the distance from the second. This configuration is particularly useful when it is not possible to position the main speakers 3 feet from the wall or with less impressive gear. Alternatively get a decent DSP which includes harmonic excitation and stage effects to make the most out of any setup.
just purchased a pair of super tweeters...hope they are good...there are built in crossover but no adjustment knobs...so lets hope they work out for me...
REALISTIC SUPER TWEETER PAIR 40-1310A made in Japan
any thoughts❓
I hear that this also works on surround sound systems. I have one that uses a set of satellite speakers. Would you recommend a super tweeter for such a setup and if so, how would you connect this? Would you just connect it to the center?
Thanks thomas , Happy new year🎉🎉
Happy new year!
I just love super tweeters, especially when I'm using 44.1kHz digital material and just because microphones rarely pick up anything over 20kHz.
I‘m now 50 years old and sadly only can hear up to 10kHz. Because of that i now prefer more analytic, clear Loudspeakers, like the Monitor Audio Silver 100 that are to hard, bright for the most listeners. I really would like to hear those super Tweeters.
For me, the general idea has been; if I need more high frequency (tweeting ….) in my hifi system ==> get better speakers 🧐🧐
Well its the old problem like with sub units, to get all units (Sub/s and Super Tweeters) working with each other correctly one need to be running with an active crossover, its simply the way it is.
This is the experiment I am working on
Danny Ritchie did a good video on supertweeters. i Built my own from parts express and have them mounted at a 30 degree angle pointing behind the speakers. it really opens up the sound. pointing them straight up was a bit too much so you should play around with them. pointing them forward is really really hard to get right. I use 3/4 inch tweeters w a second order filter at 4500 hz. total cost was $80. bought a prebuilt x over and its not fabulous quality but for the purpose its fine.
Nice, thanks for sharing.Affordable and it works.
GR Research / Danny Richie: Tech Talk 4: Adding a Super Tweeter
ruclips.net/video/razZspj7S0o/видео.html
Can you share this with us ? Feeling a little broke after Xmas 😅
@@gdwlaw5549 parts express. take your pick. dont need to build a box for them. get creative.
I'd be interested in attending your get together. Looking forward to it.
Air Motion Transformers are awesome!
In the process of my own diy speakers using Mundorf AMT19 tweeters.
They are SO GOOD!
Hey Thomas, Once again, thanks for the brilliant review. as you know, I love my Galion TS120 and My speakers are Totem Signature One with a pair of JL e-110 subs. My gut is to go with the top of the line Aperion DST Dual. That said, you noted that the RST mid level unit performed better with some systems. do you have a line of sight into which unit might work best with my system. Many thanks, Derrick
You want a real wow moment, get a Umik 1 and use REW from room correction. It will also show you if you need a super tweeter, which likely you don't, given that most speakers don't have an issue hitting 20k vs a lot of speakers not being able to hit 20hz on the low end.
I have those because I am voicing a speaker so I use those all the time. The problem is not whether the tweeter can hit 20khz or not, most tweeters can, it depends how they limit the high frequency with the crossover, that is why 2 speakers using the same tweeter, one can sound dark while the other can sound bright.
@ThomasAndStereo Yes, but if you use REW and DSP then that can be corrected and costs less than $100. I use REW with Roon convolution filters and gave me that, holy smokes this sounds amazing. I think speakers that do equalization well at 20Hz to 20,000 HZ is the new way to evaluate speakers, since in room response is so variable from person to person.
@danieljung2810 That is actually how I voice my speakers, we create a specific curve with dsp and then we built the crossover to match that curve. The benefit is you can choose whatever curve, sound you want, the downside is most people will have a hard time implementing it. I was supposed to review a product that does similar to what you said but market as room correction.
I have a feeling as the new trend direction of these speaker driver will be break down into modules instead of a combo meal.
Interesting recommendation. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thomas you said in a previous video that you did not like air motion transformer tweeters because they lack the decay of domes… Make up your mind man. 😅
I don't and still don't, but there are exceptions. Maybe those are cheap AMT?
Hello, could you recommend which is appropriate for my Cornwall 4 speakers?? As sensitivity of the CW4 is 102Db???
Please let me know as I really thinking about above ST
wondering the same thing for my Forte IVs
Yeah, I don't know and am as curious as you are.
Hello, Oliver from Le Studio, the super tweeters are a great add ons for mainly speakers that reach about 92 Dbs above this, you might hear a bit of a difference but maybe not as much as you might like. At 102 Dbs for the cornwalls or 99 Dbs for the Forte, you would not see that much of a difference. The setup chart included in the super tweeter’s instruction manuel goes to 89 Dbs. It worked with the KLH Model 5 even though they are 90.5 Dbs.
ruclips.net/video/wQMgLGLsDro/видео.html@@ThomasAndStereo
Adding a super tweeter reminds me of the Dali Kores which uses a dome tweeter combined with a ribbon tweeter which makes it a very super detailed and revealing speaker but at around 70K I can never afford it.
I see you have the Aperion Audio V8T tower in this video, please review that!!! Way more interesting than then super tweeter
You are paying a lot of money for your speakers and then comes someone that says, you need another system for the low end (subwoofer) and for the high end (super tweeter) - hey come on 😉
Your rig will look like the Beverly hillbillies in no time. 😅
Well bookshelfs usually have better sound quality then towers they won't have all the phase problems with multiple woofers and also will be able to put the subwoofers in the optimal bass spot the whole super tweeter thing is crazy being that far from the midrange woofer will create massive phase problems you'll have to mesure and move and use alot of dsp to get it corrected
@@bumkrilla5339not really, bookshelf doesn't have the scale of towers, the airiness of towers is hard to beat
@MasterofPlay7 for the most part most speakers in the under 5k a pair the bookshelfs will usually have better sound quality most companies cheap out at the crossover abd don't fix the phase problems with multiple woofers high end towers will ultimately sound better then the highend bookshelfs
@@bumkrilla5339 it's like what you are looking for, bookshelf simply cannot do the scale and openness of towers
Super tweeters were very popular when disco was around, ts,ts,ts…. Not so j h now.
I have electrostatic ML and adding a super tweet is a must 👌🏻
Beston RT002A-Dipolar Ribbon Tweeter
How long did you live with bad sound before These super tweeters?
@@TriAmpHiFi condescending tone much?
@@TriAmpHiFi go kick rocks, hifi troll.
@@EnpuerKT
ME condescending? You're telling US what WE should be doing! Why? Because YOU know better? Pffft... a fool.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpHiFi what a total and complete Karen. Take some Vertigone for that vertigo in your cloaca.
My horn speakers have supertweeters as an optional extra. They sound super special because of them ❤
What a wonderful review, very comprehensive and really gives me an idea of what to expect with them. I've been eyeing these for a while, just not sure how best to integrate them with my dipole planar magnetic speakers-entry are also planar but single sided. Top ones are 'Dual AMT', is that dipole or bipole (back driver in phase or out of phase with front driver)? Wonder if you had any experience with the sound changing if you positioned the supertweeters closer or further from the front baffle of the speaker-different phase relationship?
Makes me want to get these and a pair of Lintons
Lol this looks like great fun and is definitely not how the artist intended for you to hear their music... 😅👏👏
One can argue, it gets you closer to what the artist intended because your speaker might not be good enough to resolve the detail in their saliva to start off with 😀
Decca used to make a REAL ribbon tweeter. Went good with the old Quads.
Cool review. Definitely hear more detail on demo track even though my hearing dies at 11k.
I like the crossover to dial it in. I could add that it would be useful to measure distance from ear to tweeter and match to your existing tweeter. I use a laser measure to time align drivers as a starting point then finish by ear.
Yes, I have a laser measuring gun too, it really helps. Yeah, it is very obvious in the sound demo.
Great video, I’ve been thinking about trying them for awhile now. What about blowing them from not being able to handle power.
I was struggling to integrate AMT model with my speakers. Then I reversed polarity - switching black and red speaker cables. It made a huge difference. Aperion AMT tweeters now nicely blend with my main speakers. Siblings are reduced making whole sistem enjoyable for long listening sessions while keeping detail and glare on top. Thomas, can you please explain the effect or if it even wise to do something like that? Thank you for the great video.
I have been voicing speakers for a while and with some design, you are supposed to reverse the polarity of the tweeter. However it is interesting in your case as it sounds like both your tweeter would be wired out of polarity from each other if you did it this way. I don't know enough to answer but perhaps you can ask your question on the forums. Here is an interesting discussion. www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/question-about-tweeter-polarity-2nd-order-crossover.201869/
Omg this looks like exactly what i need for my Q Acoustics Concept 500! I like everything they do, but just missing some air and sparkle at the top. Seems like these Aperions can fix that, but what model should i choose? Room is treated, with absorbers at points of first reflections.
Hmmm I should have tried it since I have both at my home.
I’m always looking for an excuse to buy something to add on to my system. 57 years old…can I hear the difference in high frequencies?
You will but the only way to know for sure is give it a try.
The super tweeter has been around since the 80's that I know of.
Why not just replace your normal tweeter. Or maybe a hyper squawker.
So we end up with your normal speakers plus a pile of extra boxes.
Happy New Year!! =) I'd travel to Montreal for a audio weekend =)
Happy new year!
Hi Mr T.
I have questions:
How does one know there's no comb filtering in a specific implementation without a measuring system like REW?
Shouldn't the tweeters be as close as possible and on the same plane?
Can you imagine a Magnepan implementation?
This product seems like letting your 4 year old play with matches. I should imagine that a lot of speaker designers are rolling their eyes or spinning in their graves about now😅
🎵🎶🙄🎶🎵
Yeah, I hear you. Love the analogy of a 4-year-old playing with matches. Yes, the tweeter should be as close but, if it does not match well, then you would need to experiment at a different distance. Magnepan? I was too lazy to try.
Highly recommend using REW to see the response. These super tweeters are fast. You would have to set them back a little, so the timing can integrate with your speakers tweeter.
@@ThomasAndStereo
IDK
My 62 year old hearing drops off at 14k.
My dog gets upset at 20k test tones. Poor Miles!
Adding subs and supers is basically giving people the “smiley face” EQ in a mechanical fashion.
I have a pair there very handy with some speakers
If I had to pick a two-way, I’d stick with a super woofer and a sub tweeter!
Fantastic - thank you. And better sequel - The Godfather 2
Glad you enjoyed it
Well when pointing it back important to get alignment there, moving it forwards and backwards on the cabinet, maybe try it at the back edge of the cabinet. have you tried it on its side so it's working in the vertical more than the horizontal would be a better approach being a ribbon
Yeah, if you use it that way, you need to adjust the output so it blends better. Pros and cons to doing that way.
Happy New Year Thomas. 🎉 Can bring Focal Utopia headphones is anyone wants to listen if you make a get together.
It sounds to me like when you turn on the loudness knob on a Denon amp.