Nice video. Good to see another Seek Outside user! I have the 3900 Unaweep pack in Coyote Brown x21 which is the same as the grey x21, with the ultralight frame (saves 3oz and its just lighter aluminum). I got it 4-5 years ago before they started making the Divide and Gila etc. They do not offer this smaller 3900 version of the unaweep, or ultralight frame on the website anymore but they might custom make one for someone interested. I have changed out the solid talon for the new mesh talon and changed all the buckles out and removed some of the extra straps etc. I also have their side pocket and I personally love the size - its xpac great for snacks and camera etc. I also carry their mesh side bottle pocket for bear spray or water. I carry the solid side pocket on one side and the mesh on the other. My pack is around 2lbs 5oz and I can get it down to around 2lbs, if I strip all the extras. I am really happy you talked bluntly about the real world load capacity of the HMG and Zpacks. I don't think many people realize when they buy a pack like the Zpacks and the HMG, that 4-5 days of food and a couple days (or weeks) of big water carries and/or a bear container will kill your spirit because even with a sub 10lb base weight it will put your well over the comfort rating. Even with a couple days of food and normal water will put you right at the limit of comfort. I can say without a doubt the extra 5-6oz on my Unaweep, I can bushwhack, carry any weight and not have to worry about the pack breaking/failing while in the backcountry. It's worth it to me. I can say without a doubt that the Unaweep pack is the best pack I've owned. I am a gear nerd, hoarder and this is literally the only piece of gear that I cannot find something that I would use in its place. It's truly bomb proof and can carry literally anything and it is more comfortable than any pack I've owned. So, even though I own other packs and have tried both of the packs you reviewed I just can't justify using them over my Seek Outside pack - unless it was a day hike or something. Thanks for the reviews, looking forward to watching your tent vids next.
Thanks so much Mikey and thanks for sharing your experience as well. Seek Outside packs certainly have great suspension and I love that Xpac material for a pack! For me, the Windrider is still my pack of choice, but most of my adventures are in the range of 3-6 days, so I'm able to keep the total pack weight under 30 lbs. Happy trails!
Thanks so much for watching! Looks like you've got a great new channel yourself. I wish I had your sewing skills because there is a whole world of patterns for making your own ultralight gear! Backpackinglight.com has a whole sub devoted to the topic and it's a great way to get started without spending tons of $$$. If you ever run low on ideas for videos, you could do one on making a shaped (pyramid) ultralight tarp! I'd definitely tune in. :-)
I was in the market for a new backpack and I remember your video on backpacks. Thanks for your review, and I chose the HMG Junction 3400. You made a lot of great reasons for the 3400 and I think that it’s going to be a great pack for the type of hiking that I do. Thanks again Dan. Looking forward to your next video.
Howdy Dan! excellent reviews...been thinking about picking up a Seek Outside 4800 Unaweep ...i'm using the HMG southwest 4400 and its a nice pack. But i found after a few days with approx 35lbs the waist belts stiff edges rubbed me raw and that would then force me to carry all the weight on my shoulders creating a whole new set of problems. I still use it on day hikes and overniters, but i really need a better suspension system...even though an external frame pack weighs a bit more, with a good suspension system, they actually feel lighter imho...glad i found your channel neighbor...atvb...woods
Thanks so much Woods! Been checking out your channel too and looks like some dandy videos. Maybe I'll run into you next time I'm down in the Beartooths. Happy trails!
You should do a review of the seek outside flight one. You may find it will be a trio of the hmg windrider and the arc blast. Dan you are right on the money with zpack and hmg…I have both packs and have put some serious pct mileage on each one. When I watched your video I thought is this guy channeling my observations. I would be interested in what you think of the flight one. Keep your videos coming. Your approach is easy on the ears informative and flows well with your content and narration…. Randy “Froggy” wallace
Hey Froggy; thanks so very much for the kind words of encouragement, it really means a lot to me! Thanks also for the tip on the SO Flight One -- that looks really appealing. Happy Trails!
Nice mention on the ULA stuff. Still relevant even among all the great new DCF packs out there. Had my Circuit for years and it still looks new. You can save a few ounces, but there are sacrifices to that. I love a durable pack I can depend on in the backcountry even if it is a few ounces more than DCF. If I regularly had a 10lb base weight, I would go with a smaller, lighter pack but I am closer to 15 most of the time so I have plenty of overhead to carry more water or food if necessary.
Thanks for sharing that! I think the ULA Circuit/CDT is the single piece of gear I most want to try out, but never have, and, since the HMG pack is lighter and already meets my needs, it's tough to go heavier. Still, the ULA packs look like a sweet ride and many, many folks love them!
Great review Dan! Looks like it's been about 16 months since this vid. Do you still prefer the HMG most of the time? I'm currently trying to decide between the Arc Blast and Junction 3400. Seems like there's a lot of supporters and haters of both packs. It makes it hard to decide. I'm leaning to the HMG because durability edge's out weight a little for me i just worry about fitment with no adjustability on the HMG... Thanks keep up the great work!
Hey, thanks! I definitely still prefer the HMG. I hold onto the Arc Blast for occasional attempts to go lighter (like the trip to Turquoise Lake last summer), but generally, the HMG just 'works' better for me, in addition to better weight hauling. Hard to define what I mean by that, but it's things like more robust webbing and buckles, the net/front pocket is better, little details like that which add up over time to less fiddling. Probably just a personal preference issue, as you alluded to. I think the only real 'absolute' is that if you think your TPW will routinely exceed 20 lbs., you're probably not going to be happy with the Zpacks packs.
Nice review! I have the divide but it's a newer version, they updated the things you were unhappy with. Like you said it carries like a dream! But I'm thinking about to get the northrim 3400 for when I'm only hike, and as a daily pack for like weekend trip and so on. What do you think?
Hey Johan! Thanks for the comment and the news about updates to the Divide--that's great to hear. Regarding the Northrim . . . to be honest, I didn't even know they made this version until you asked about it. Looks like it's mainly designed for especially heavy use, such as bushwacking and would likely be more than most people need for general trail use. Unless you plan lots of off-trail travel, I would save the extra $65 (and 3 oz.!) and get the Junction, which has shown no signs of wear for me over apx. 3 years use. I also prefer the net-style front pocket to be able to see and grab what's in there. Also, if you're looking for a pack for shorter trips, 3400 is plenty of volume (I've used it for week-long trips without problems), so you might even consider sizing down to the 2400.
@@ShastaBubba yeh, the divide is a really awesome pack and I'm really happy with it. Love that I can use the straps to attach it to the packraft to! I thought of the 2400 too and the junction. But you know I have 2 kids and I had to carry the most of the gear so the 3400 will fit me well I suppose. But when I'm alone and hiking I go off trail. And my gear gets pretty beaten up. And I had to admit that the woven 375denier dyneema is quite cool😅 but I'm sure the 50denier would last too. The bag doesn't take so much punishment anyway. Must say I love your videos! Its wery informative and it feels very real. You talk about the right stuff and don't bargain or anything. Keep up the good work my friend!
@@JohanGartner Thanks so much Johan, I really appreciate the feedback! Let me know if there are topics you think would be good to cover in the future. I have a plan in mind, but always open to new ideas.
@@ShastaBubba looking forward to se your next movie! I don't know, packing list for both cold an warm weather? And how your clothing system works and what you use for clothing? How you treat gear in the field if it gets wet? And some pictures from back in the days would be nice to see! As a reference to today's lighter loads! And I wish to see a video dedicated to packrafting gear and packlst. And for me I always measure in grams so I loved to her grams too👍 thank you! Best regards
really enjoyed your perspective on the packs (& indeed the whole series) it's a nice reality check for gram weenies (of which i used to be).. maybe this series should be compulsory viewing for /r/Ultralighters hehe.. great job & keep them coming ATB btw do you cut off your toothbrush handles :)
Hey, thanks so much! It's great and encouraging to hear that feedback. Funny you should mention reddit -- I did try posting these videos on /r/Ultralight and they were removed. Twice. I protested and was told they violated the 'self-promotion' rule. Later I figured out that the mod who removed my posts makes his own backpacking videos. Hmmmm. I've had better luck on other subs, especially the r/CampingGear and r/WildernessBackpack, who have allowed all my posts. And no, I don't cut off TB handles (carry a small, travel size brush instead), but I do trim the edges of maps; just so they fit in a gallon zip-lock, not so much for weight savings. :-)
Dan, do you still have a very positive opinion of the Seek Outside Divide pack? I am considering it as an alternative to an HMH Southwest 4400? Is the extra weight and money worth the features and benefits ?
I do still like and use the Divide pack, mainly for packrafting when I'm carrying and extra 20 lbs., but also used it in the spring because it's a better tool for carrying snow shoes (and the extra cold-weather gear). The suspension is beefier, so handles heavier loads better than HMG packs. Seek Outside is now making a couple new packs (Gila and Flight) that are worth considering (haven't seen them myself), and they are all in the same price range with the HMG 4400.
Dan, how do you feel the seek outside offerings compare to the Elemental Horizons Kalais or Aquilo? I’m looking for a light pack that can still handle the rare heavy load(35lbs or so) and these both seem to be contenders. Most the time I’m traveling much much lighter(closer to 12-15lbs) so a pack just above ultralight that can still handle heavy loads is what id love to find
Hank, unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the EH packs, so can't make a comparison. I will share that I just returned from a 7-day hike with my HMG Windrider 3400 and BPW was 33.5 at the start (due to all the food) and it handled just fine. I honestly think even the Seek Outside Divide would be almost overkill for what you're describing, considering your primary use is carrying much less weight and then you'd have way too much pack for what you're doing most of the time.
Correct! My pack was the 2014 model and "Indigo and Gray" color, which is no longer an option; although, they are offering the Arc Blast in four colors now.
I have researched them, but never actually held one. I view them as a reasonable, inexpensive way to get started with ultralight; however, the design and materials just don't work for me. For the same weight and price, I personally would lean more toward the ULA Circuit and Ohm for greater durability and functional design. As far as comparison to these packs, IMHO, you can't get a better all-around pack than the HMG Windrider/Junction.
When I go packrafting (only time I use the Divide pack), my TPW is usually around 40-44 lbs. (18-20kg) and that carries well. The Seek Outside website claims the Divide can carry comfortably up to 100 lbs! I doubt there is such a thing as comfortably carrying that much weight!
I dont see any reason to pull that strap so hard. I have the Arc Haul just pull it till it's snug. Maybe if I was RUNNING but I don't run with 30# on my back.
Hey, thanks for that. Curious what makes you say dcf is horrible for packs and tents? Some folks worry about long-term abrasion damage, but my packs and tent have both received heavy use for about 7 years now with no problems.
@@ShastaBubba . The break down rate of the material is 10× faster than other main stream materials. That's why pack manufacturers that are making packs with DCF only have a limited warranty. While others that use different materials have longer warranties or lifelong warranties. I have dcf packs and others. The non dcf have lasted far much longer.
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice video. Good to see another Seek Outside user!
I have the 3900 Unaweep pack in Coyote Brown x21 which is the same as the grey x21, with the ultralight frame (saves 3oz and its just lighter aluminum). I got it 4-5 years ago before they started making the Divide and Gila etc. They do not offer this smaller 3900 version of the unaweep, or ultralight frame on the website anymore but they might custom make one for someone interested. I have changed out the solid talon for the new mesh talon and changed all the buckles out and removed some of the extra straps etc. I also have their side pocket and I personally love the size - its xpac great for snacks and camera etc. I also carry their mesh side bottle pocket for bear spray or water. I carry the solid side pocket on one side and the mesh on the other. My pack is around 2lbs 5oz and I can get it down to around 2lbs, if I strip all the extras.
I am really happy you talked bluntly about the real world load capacity of the HMG and Zpacks. I don't think many people realize when they buy a pack like the Zpacks and the HMG, that 4-5 days of food and a couple days (or weeks) of big water carries and/or a bear container will kill your spirit because even with a sub 10lb base weight it will put your well over the comfort rating. Even with a couple days of food and normal water will put you right at the limit of comfort. I can say without a doubt the extra 5-6oz on my Unaweep, I can bushwhack, carry any weight and not have to worry about the pack breaking/failing while in the backcountry. It's worth it to me.
I can say without a doubt that the Unaweep pack is the best pack I've owned. I am a gear nerd, hoarder and this is literally the only piece of gear that I cannot find something that I would use in its place. It's truly bomb proof and can carry literally anything and it is more comfortable than any pack I've owned. So, even though I own other packs and have tried both of the packs you reviewed I just can't justify using them over my Seek Outside pack - unless it was a day hike or something.
Thanks for the reviews, looking forward to watching your tent vids next.
Thanks so much Mikey and thanks for sharing your experience as well. Seek Outside packs certainly have great suspension and I love that Xpac material for a pack! For me, the Windrider is still my pack of choice, but most of my adventures are in the range of 3-6 days, so I'm able to keep the total pack weight under 30 lbs. Happy trails!
Great honest and thorough review. Thank you.
You're welcome and thanks for the comment!
I love those Rocky Mountains. I know you're in Montana but it looks like my neck of the woods in Wyoming. I'll have to make the trip up to "the Bob".
By all means! Although there's certainly tons of great country to explore in WY!!!
Excellent commentary and walk through - thoroughly pleasant viewing experience!
Thanks so much Erik, glad you enjoyed it!
Oh, I'm on the other side of the Rockies! 🇨🇦
So beautiful.
I am looking into ultralight hiking - thanks for the review
Thanks so much for watching! Looks like you've got a great new channel yourself. I wish I had your sewing skills because there is a whole world of patterns for making your own ultralight gear! Backpackinglight.com has a whole sub devoted to the topic and it's a great way to get started without spending tons of $$$. If you ever run low on ideas for videos, you could do one on making a shaped (pyramid) ultralight tarp! I'd definitely tune in. :-)
I was in the market for a new backpack and I remember your video on backpacks. Thanks for your review, and I chose the HMG Junction 3400. You made a lot of great reasons for the 3400 and I think that it’s going to be a great pack for the type of hiking that I do. Thanks again Dan. Looking forward to your next video.
Let me know how that works out for you! It makes me very happy to know this was useful. Happy trails!
Nice series of videos. Would be interested in a video where you discuss food storage, safety tips and your experiences hiking in grizzly country.
Thanks and I appreciate the suggestion. Great idea!
Howdy Dan! excellent reviews...been thinking about picking up a Seek Outside 4800 Unaweep ...i'm using the HMG southwest 4400 and its a nice pack.
But i found after a few days with approx 35lbs the waist belts stiff edges rubbed me raw and that would then force me to carry all the weight on my shoulders creating a whole new set of problems.
I still use it on day hikes and overniters, but i really need a better suspension system...even though an external frame pack weighs a bit more, with a good suspension system, they actually feel lighter imho...glad i found your channel neighbor...atvb...woods
Thanks so much Woods! Been checking out your channel too and looks like some dandy videos. Maybe I'll run into you next time I'm down in the Beartooths. Happy trails!
great video series, i appreciate the perspective, advise, videos are just right length!
Thanks so much for the feedback! I really appreciate it.
You should do a review of the seek outside flight one. You may find it will be a trio of the hmg windrider and the arc blast. Dan you are right on the money with zpack and hmg…I have both packs and have put some serious pct mileage on each one. When I watched your video I thought is this guy channeling my observations. I would be interested in what you think of the flight one. Keep your videos coming. Your approach is easy on the ears informative and flows well with your content and narration…. Randy “Froggy” wallace
Hey Froggy; thanks so very much for the kind words of encouragement, it really means a lot to me! Thanks also for the tip on the SO Flight One -- that looks really appealing. Happy Trails!
Nice mention on the ULA stuff. Still relevant even among all the great new DCF packs out there. Had my Circuit for years and it still looks new. You can save a few ounces, but there are sacrifices to that. I love a durable pack I can depend on in the backcountry even if it is a few ounces more than DCF. If I regularly had a 10lb base weight, I would go with a smaller, lighter pack but I am closer to 15 most of the time so I have plenty of overhead to carry more water or food if necessary.
Thanks for sharing that! I think the ULA Circuit/CDT is the single piece of gear I most want to try out, but never have, and, since the HMG pack is lighter and already meets my needs, it's tough to go heavier. Still, the ULA packs look like a sweet ride and many, many folks love them!
Well considered reviews. Nicely done. Thanks.
Thank You!
Great review Dan! Looks like it's been about 16 months since this vid. Do you still prefer the HMG most of the time? I'm currently trying to decide between the Arc Blast and Junction 3400. Seems like there's a lot of supporters and haters of both packs. It makes it hard to decide. I'm leaning to the HMG because durability edge's out weight a little for me i just worry about fitment with no adjustability on the HMG... Thanks keep up the great work!
Hey, thanks! I definitely still prefer the HMG. I hold onto the Arc Blast for occasional attempts to go lighter (like the trip to Turquoise Lake last summer), but generally, the HMG just 'works' better for me, in addition to better weight hauling. Hard to define what I mean by that, but it's things like more robust webbing and buckles, the net/front pocket is better, little details like that which add up over time to less fiddling. Probably just a personal preference issue, as you alluded to. I think the only real 'absolute' is that if you think your TPW will routinely exceed 20 lbs., you're probably not going to be happy with the Zpacks packs.
Nice review! I have the divide but it's a newer version, they updated the things you were unhappy with. Like you said it carries like a dream! But I'm thinking about to get the northrim 3400 for when I'm only hike, and as a daily pack for like weekend trip and so on. What do you think?
Hey Johan! Thanks for the comment and the news about updates to the Divide--that's great to hear. Regarding the Northrim . . . to be honest, I didn't even know they made this version until you asked about it. Looks like it's mainly designed for especially heavy use, such as bushwacking and would likely be more than most people need for general trail use. Unless you plan lots of off-trail travel, I would save the extra $65 (and 3 oz.!) and get the Junction, which has shown no signs of wear for me over apx. 3 years use. I also prefer the net-style front pocket to be able to see and grab what's in there. Also, if you're looking for a pack for shorter trips, 3400 is plenty of volume (I've used it for week-long trips without problems), so you might even consider sizing down to the 2400.
@@ShastaBubba yeh, the divide is a really awesome pack and I'm really happy with it. Love that I can use the straps to attach it to the packraft to!
I thought of the 2400 too and the junction. But you know I have 2 kids and I had to carry the most of the gear so the 3400 will fit me well I suppose. But when I'm alone and hiking I go off trail. And my gear gets pretty beaten up. And I had to admit that the woven 375denier dyneema is quite cool😅 but I'm sure the 50denier would last too. The bag doesn't take so much punishment anyway. Must say I love your videos! Its wery informative and it feels very real. You talk about the right stuff and don't bargain or anything. Keep up the good work my friend!
@@JohanGartner Thanks so much Johan, I really appreciate the feedback! Let me know if there are topics you think would be good to cover in the future. I have a plan in mind, but always open to new ideas.
@@ShastaBubba looking forward to se your next movie!
I don't know, packing list for both cold an warm weather? And how your clothing system works and what you use for clothing? How you treat gear in the field if it gets wet? And some pictures from back in the days would be nice to see! As a reference to today's lighter loads! And I wish to see a video dedicated to packrafting gear and packlst.
And for me I always measure in grams so I loved to her grams too👍 thank you! Best regards
@@JohanGartner Wow, these are great ideas, thanks! You've just doubled my to-do list. ;-) Awesome.
really enjoyed your perspective on the packs (& indeed the whole series) it's a nice reality check for gram weenies (of which i used to be).. maybe this series should be compulsory viewing for /r/Ultralighters hehe.. great job & keep them coming ATB
btw do you cut off your toothbrush handles :)
Hey, thanks so much! It's great and encouraging to hear that feedback. Funny you should mention reddit -- I did try posting these videos on /r/Ultralight and they were removed. Twice. I protested and was told they violated the 'self-promotion' rule. Later I figured out that the mod who removed my posts makes his own backpacking videos. Hmmmm. I've had better luck on other subs, especially the r/CampingGear and r/WildernessBackpack, who have allowed all my posts. And no, I don't cut off TB handles (carry a small, travel size brush instead), but I do trim the edges of maps; just so they fit in a gallon zip-lock, not so much for weight savings. :-)
Dan, do you still have a very positive opinion of the Seek Outside Divide pack? I am considering it as an alternative to an HMH Southwest 4400? Is the extra weight and money worth the features and benefits ?
I do still like and use the Divide pack, mainly for packrafting when I'm carrying and extra 20 lbs., but also used it in the spring because it's a better tool for carrying snow shoes (and the extra cold-weather gear). The suspension is beefier, so handles heavier loads better than HMG packs. Seek Outside is now making a couple new packs (Gila and Flight) that are worth considering (haven't seen them myself), and they are all in the same price range with the HMG 4400.
Dan, how do you feel the seek outside offerings compare to the Elemental Horizons Kalais or Aquilo? I’m looking for a light pack that can still handle the rare heavy load(35lbs or so) and these both seem to be contenders. Most the time I’m traveling much much lighter(closer to 12-15lbs) so a pack just above ultralight that can still handle heavy loads is what id love to find
Hank, unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the EH packs, so can't make a comparison. I will share that I just returned from a 7-day hike with my HMG Windrider 3400 and BPW was 33.5 at the start (due to all the food) and it handled just fine. I honestly think even the Seek Outside Divide would be almost overkill for what you're describing, considering your primary use is carrying much less weight and then you'd have way too much pack for what you're doing most of the time.
the Arc blast color is quite different compared to the homepage maybe they have more color option?
Correct! My pack was the 2014 model and "Indigo and Gray" color, which is no longer an option; although, they are offering the Arc Blast in four colors now.
Have you considered the GG line of packs and if so how would you compare them to these three packs? Thanks.
I have researched them, but never actually held one. I view them as a reasonable, inexpensive way to get started with ultralight; however, the design and materials just don't work for me. For the same weight and price, I personally would lean more toward the ULA Circuit and Ohm for greater durability and functional design. As far as comparison to these packs, IMHO, you can't get a better all-around pack than the HMG Windrider/Junction.
Hi Dan,
For Divide pack carry load weight comfort how many lb? Would you prefer back system off the pack.
When I go packrafting (only time I use the Divide pack), my TPW is usually around 40-44 lbs. (18-20kg) and that carries well. The Seek Outside website claims the Divide can carry comfortably up to 100 lbs! I doubt there is such a thing as comfortably carrying that much weight!
I dont see any reason to pull that strap so hard. I have the Arc Haul just pull it till it's snug. Maybe if I was RUNNING but I don't run with 30# on my back.
My pack may have had a faulty part, since I really wasn't pulling hard when it broke. Thanks for your comment!
The most remote area in the lower 48 is southwestern corner of Yellowstone...
Dcf is a horrible material to make a pack or a tent from
Hey, thanks for that. Curious what makes you say dcf is horrible for packs and tents? Some folks worry about long-term abrasion damage, but my packs and tent have both received heavy use for about 7 years now with no problems.
@@ShastaBubba . The break down rate of the material is 10× faster than other main stream materials. That's why pack manufacturers that are making packs with DCF only have a limited warranty. While others that use different materials have longer warranties or lifelong warranties.
I have dcf packs and others. The non dcf have lasted far much longer.
@@mattheishman170 Very interesting; thanks for sharing that!