Why Is the United Methodist Church Splintering?
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- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2023
- Hey Church Family,
Several people in our congregation have recently asked why the United Methodist Church is splintering. To make sure everyone is on the same page, start some discussion, and offer some hope, Pastor Mary addressed this during our service this past Sunday by reading a letter she wrote about it. 
Развлечения
Its not about fitting with who you are it’s about fitting with who God is. Be assured Jesus said let the weeds grow with the amongst them because he will weed out the weeds from the wheat. I didn’t hear one biblical thought from scripture about righteousness but every thing was about self.
@@duncanlemay7446 Uuhhh. The biblical view of the Church is not as an organization, but rather an organism. You know, something living. The identity of the Church is not your, or my "identity". It is the identity of Christ as seen through the pages of scripture. Talking of your identity, or your local church identity sound very self centered and selfish.
Yes, and Satan boasted to Jesus on top of the temple, and said, worship me, and I will give you the wealth of the world, and rulership! But Jesus rebuked Satan, and said that man does not live on physical bread alone, but on every Word of Scripture, and follows it, coming out of the mouth of God.
It’s so sad that the older congregants just sit there, cringing over what is being promoted, and yet are cowed into silence in a church tradition they have embraced all their lives and which they don’t know how to leave.
Paul refers to 90% of the world's humanity as being "blinded" by 'Satan and his demons, lest the glorious gospel of Christ shine unto them, and they believe, repent of their sins, and have peace and joy, and eternal life!
The Bible is clear, we are saved by grace but should we continue in sin so grace may abound, certainly not. Jesus said we need to be born again...comprehend what that means.
Itching ears… we knew it would come but didn’t expect it so quickly.
Yes, sadly, the Antichrist is going rise up in the future, and it will not be a good time to be on the earth! Revelation 6-19.
As a minister ordained in the UMC, my biggest beef is how our leaders, especially the bishops, go blatantly against the book of discipline. The same book they have stated they will follow through ordination. Their "we will do it anyway" attitude is both sad and arrogant. Being a traditionalist in my teaching it saddens me also how the Bible gets thrown aside in this discussion. I have ministered to LGBT individuals, but I will not condone their sin just like I would not condone the sin of an unrepentant thief. Jesus did talk about it in Matt. 19 and Mark 10 when He reaffirmed God's plan of 1 man and 1 woman. It is a shame more pastors fail to see His own words when they read them.
Robert wynn is absolutely right, I agree with his comment 100 percent!
Not only is this sinful disease infected the UMC, it is now spreading within a particular political party, the bible and the constitution and the book of discipline and the rule of law is NOT being followed anymore.
You are wise to reject the immorality this church promotes. Jesus warned about the wolves coming into the sheep, and devouring them. The downfall of Christianity began in Europe, back in the mid-1800's, when Fredrick Niezhe, an atheistic theologian, proposed the false teaching that the Bible is not inerrant, and open to societie's ways, and does not need to be followed 100%. And, all the seminaries, which train future pastors and church leaders, fell to this false teaching, such as Union Seminary in NYC and others in Europe. Now, we have young people all over the world, leaving the church and embracing a godless secular ideology which Satan is luring them, and not to Heaven!
It is never too late. If Americans, Europeans, Australians, and the rest of the world would reject the apostate churches and teachings, and embrace the gospel, revival will break out. Otherwise, judgement is the sad result!
Amen
1Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality... The problem is so called church leadership not believing what the bible states. How can you even be a Christian without believing what the bible says?
"Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God"-Romans 10:17.
Most of my life I have been a member of and active in a beautiful and caring UMC in South Carolina. In that period of time, I have been proud of who we were and are in saving lives for Jesus and helping our community grow in a positive way. We have members of all age groups and a very active youth group. We are a large church with 1800 plus members. Thoughout my life I have been taught that there is a right and wrong way to act. We have certain actions/activitties that fall into right or wrong, good or evil. When certain "progressive" churches have decided they knew best on what was good and bad and they didn't give a hootabout how their actions/decisions might negatively impact other people, other churces. They vigoriously embraced the latest liberal ideas. After all, they had all the answers and all their answers were correct and only way. Sadly, for me and thousands of others, we saw the UMC leave us. We didn't leave the UMC- the UMC left us. Fortunately there are other choices for the people of God. Some have decided to become independent and some have joined the Global Methodist Church. Progressive politics has caused many problems in our country. We see the destruction of our culture in every aspect (crime, homelessness, higher taxes, lower standard of living, less respect for any authority, especially for law enforcement officers). And now the progressive destruction has entered our churces. Many foolish people have gone along with this. It's a go along to get along philosophy run amuck. So this is the sad state of affairs in our world and in the UMC. The cancer has spread but the patient is still alive. There is still hope. Thank you Jesus.
Be careful not to oversimplify with an "us vs. them perspective" when it comes to politics. There have been actions by both conservatives and liberals that have led to the problems you mention with society today. It's not black and white and unfortunately it is in our human instincts to gravitate towards these views (aka the deep rooted psychology of tribalism) but we have to rise above it. The sooner you do that, the sooner you'll see the true and complex actions that have led us here and be better suited to make choices that can help these problems.
Not only does the UMC not obey God’s commands, they don’t even obey their own Book of Discipline. That isn’t a legitimate church.
The leadership of the UMC are much less conservative than the people in the congregations. I have been a United Methodist all my life, but cannot remain. I love many things about Methodism, so I hope my church will go to the Global Methodist Church.
@@ricknelson4721
I’m not an expert on Methodism, so how are the leaders chosen? By the congregants?
Unlike congregationalist churches, the Methodist church is Episcopal in how the church is run. Bishops are chosen by a council of bishops. Each conference has a bishop who are appointed. Bishops conduct the business of the conference including appointing pastors who are usually moved in 4-5 years. Congregants have no say in whom the bishop appoints. The up side is we don't have to search for pastors like Baptists and Presbyterians do. The down side is getting a pastor who is a poor fit. Members have some authority locally, although the trust clause means the UMC owns the property. That was ratified in 1796, and has never been replaced. All that said, I love our sacraments and open table. I believe women can be called by God to be ministers. I have been a Methodist all my life and it hurts me to see Methodists fighting other Methodists but now realize the split is the best solution to the vast differences in progressive and traditional churches.
They already have a membership in decline before they officially split. They embrace any philosophy that seems current and cliche. They're totally irrelevant.
Book of Discipline? There’s only ONE book for the Lord’s church. Any other book is false.
You are a church that rejects the words of Moses, the words of Paul, the words of the Didache, Clement of Rome, Justin Martyr, Origen, Ignaseus, and nearly every other church father. Paul even created a new Greek word to express a man, any man SHALL NOT bed another man, any man as he would a woman. Jesus himself stated his Father's order of one man leaving his family and joining with one woman to become one flesh. Scripture is God breathed. Jesus believed it to be his fathers word and Paul emphasizes it. There is no higher source than the word of God.
This is a matter of faith vs. science. The science of psychology indicates that a minority of people are intrinsically homosexual. They did not choose it, they just ARE. Should they have to hide and pretend and enter into mixed (gay/straight) marriages just to be accepted by the Church? I think not. I think honesty is the first step towards salvation.
What should we make of Jesus’ words in Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. 14 How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.”? How broadly & unrestricted should we interpret these words?
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Amen
Are you for the killing of gays? Just as Lev. 20:13 was saying?
From a front row seat:
The United Methodists have been forced out of their church by "bishops" and "pastors" who have no interest in following the UMC's Book of Discipline, or the Gospel of Jesus Christ (except for the portions with which they agree). As to why seminary graduates would choose to be ordained into a denomination and lie when they promise to uphold the tenets of that denomination, even going so far as to rewrite scripture, including Jesus' own words, I will leave up to your own powers of reason. There are already plenty of choices for pastors who want to rewrite the Gospel: Unitarian, Episcopalian, etc. so there wasn't a great need to destroy the United Methodist Church. Being deceitful in tearing apart yet another Body of Christ isn't modeling Christ.
They’ve been sitting right beside you the entire time. Are you asking members to leave because they don’t suit your belief?
@@bohofoto6929 Are you addressing me, or those that have joined the UMC with no intention of honoring the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
@@bohofoto6929 crickets... chirp... chirp...
The book of discipline? Because the Bible isn’t enough? That right there tells me the Methodists have it wrong when they teach out of anything other than the Bible. That’s basically saying that God’s book isn’t good enough and the He needs a little help. Insane.
@@Dockernan1977 lol- you don't understand what the Book of Discipline is. Your comment is a non sequitur.
Yeah, after hearing this woman preacher's talk, I think I'd want to split, too.
I would have stood up and walked out
I wouldn’t have even been there in the first place.
Was a Confirmation Teacher for many years and saw the move away from the Bible, and tradition. Bishops were nothing but figureheads that supported the wokeness happening. Had a senior minister and assoc minister, both married, having an affair and nothing done. Sin is sin.
I saw The BOD being ignored. Donations being shifted between programs. The UMC is not doing God’s work. Pastors just collecting pensions so they can retire to Lake Junaluska. Sad.
I left and renounced my UMC membership. Christians do not need the UMC or any organized religion to find God or experience the love of Christ.
7:26 ..
Reason why the denomination is emptying out across the globe.
Do not be lukewarm - Faith over Fun/Feelings
The thing is, Jesus didn't ordain any woman to the ministry, and he certainly wasn't bound by the conventions of the time. He also said to the woman taken in adultery, "Neither do I condemn you, but go and SIN NO MORE". Homosexualism is not only against nature, it's against God's ordinance, and that's all there is to it.
The only 'Book that should be followed is the Good Book, it's called the Bible" the word of God. Any man that lays down with another man or any woman that lays down with another woman is pure sin and evil, also a marriage is between One man and One woman, period! Yes, as Christians we are to call out sinful ways in the church and to judge inside the church, God will judge the outside, we are to callout sin on the inside. If a pastor is not teaching and following the word of God, they will love their congregation right to hell.
Would Jesus have excluded anyone from worshipping in any denomination or gathering for the purpose of worship?
Jesus would never exclude anyone from worship. Why do you ask this question?
He condemned the sin of homosexuality not the person the act.
@@bob1519 I must have missed that "condemnation" quote from Jesus you allude to. Please cite.
@@bob1519 He told sinners to go and sin no more.
@@A808K Jesus condemned all sin. He offered forgiveness through His grace and His sacrifice on the cross, but he told people to stop sinning.
This woman’s dismissive contempt for the Book of Discipline, in her comments, mannerisms and gestures, drips from her so obviously. It is THE ruling document of her denomination and yet she despises it. SHE should leave.
Why do you care so much about what our small congregation is doing and feel that you should judge us and our pastor? You don't go to our church, you haven't seen what we are doing. So how can you even begin to judge us accurately? You can't. I don't even think you are a real person. You've got no profile picture on your RUclips profile, so I honestly think you are a troll or a bot. If you are a real person, I feel that your view on Christianity is a toxic one that misses the point entirely. In my opinion your comment is an overreaction, what she said and did was honestly quite tame. I don't know what you are exactly trying to accomplish, but you are probably creating evil right now.
Yes, she is another Eve, deceived by the lure of the good taste of the "apple" that God forbade our first parents in the Garden of Eden. That is why most women in ministry, or founders of a Christian cult, rejected the plain teachings of scripture. The role of women is to be keepers of the house, faithful to their children and husband, and excellent soccer moms -I Timothy 5:14. I doubt this "pastor" ever quotes that verse in her sermons!
Through all this speech, did you notice what book was not brought before the congregation? Yes… the Bible. That speaks far more than her words.
And if you don’t see a “Pastor” with a Bible you had better run for the hills!
This is no coincidence. Why would a false teacher and an imposter reference the one book that throws light on her darkness?
They never use the Bible because it exposes their fraud.
The fact that a woman is up there as an ordained leader in this meeting is one reason for the splintering.
Do you really think that GOD does not want women to be ordained leaders in our churches????
Do you really think that JESUS does not want women to be ordained leaders in our churches???
"Splintering" is not a concept for our time when churches are focusing on opening their churches to all peoples, than on closing their doors to certain people.
Persecuting homosexuals and not accepting the validity of women in our congregations are Satan's way of setting people against each other.
No, God does not want women to be ordained leaders in His Church. Next question.
@@keithwilson6060 You are living in the Middle Ages and it is obvious that you are not educated enough to see reality.
You are living in the Middle Ages, circa 1500!
@@duncanlemay7446
What you ignorantly call “backward” is more often than not solid, God-honoring teaching. Too bad you’re so ignorant of the things of God.
It's in the Bible, duh...
I don't understand the issue. The Bible clearly states that man shall not lay with man. Case closed.
You are absolutely right for standing up for Jesus
That's not Jesus. F yhwh. We follow Jesus!
That would make it difficult to materialize the spirit...🙂🌲
Agree!
The Methodist seminary has been infiltrated by lesbians.
The Church of Word Salad. That’s what you have there. Kamala would love it.
I still think you are a troll, why don't you have a profile picture?
"Kamala would love it"??!! Keith, that kinda says it all...
Sounds like the new org is not a new thing but a continuation of what the denomination has always been biblically
Mostly its just blowing up because you have left your first love and are reaping what you have sown in your embracing sin.
Luke 12:57 Jesus said: why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right!
You are taking it out of context. This verse is not a license to do whatever you want.
What gets ignored in this speech is you can't guarantee that your replacement will not over rule portions of scripture that calls certain activities a sin. The jurisdictional conferences are loaded with liberal bishops, many of whom, promote that under this "big tent " slogan, anything goes and no one is allowed to question it, let alone, do any thing about it. Churches adopt the latest cultural fads, regardless of whether or not it contrary the gospel of Christ. The Global Methodist does Church Church does not keep lgbtq people from coming to church anymore than some who are in adulterous relationships. But they do not condone such persons to take a role of spiritual education or leadership. All just that was conveniently ignored.
Every member of the UMC clergy that has commented of this issue totally ignores what the Bible says. Traditional views on the Bible? No it is an accurate view of the Bible.
"A newly formed expression of Methodism" no, you mean the original expression of Methodism.
"Pastor" Mary. There is the first problem
I am assuming, but correct me if I am wrong, you have a problem with our preacher because she is female?
@@duncanlemay7446 1 Timothy 2:11-14 Among others forbid that. I've seen churches with porn addict pastors, prevaricator pastors, prosperity pastors , profanity pastors etc that the Bible forbids. It's one reason that I left the ministry and church. Too many churches just throw out portions of the Bible they don't like and think that it's ok. If you throw out any part just do away with all of it and just make it a social club. Oh wait, many churches have already done that. I believe the Bible and everything in it. It is the inerrant, infallible, eternal word of God and what it says is NOT a suggestion. Sorry if my truth offends you but it's time we start worrying about what offends God, not man. God bless.
Amen, it is a curse to be ruled over by women or children. (Is 3:12)
@@duncanlemay7446 Of course, he may have. What he might not to realize is that on those hours (days?) between the women have discovered that Christ is risen and the Apostles had known about that, the Church was ENTIRELY women made!... But, ok, the liberals are the ones whom don't read the Bible. You know... Meanwhile; congrats on your comment and please, don't feed these trolls!...
@@duncanlemay7446yes, it’s unbiblical
As soon as they brought out a female pastor I would have ran.
Yep. If they’re getting that wrong then just think of how much else they’re getting wrong as well.
Well, Ellen White (Seventh Day Adventism) and Mary Baker Eddy (Scientology) would have seen things similarly to all the lady pastors, too!
But how can you go alone with something that the Bible clearly said was wrong
Interesting the focus of the pastor is on joining the GMC when many churches leaving the UMC are becoming independent and growing churches in congregational numbers. And, while this church may stay UMC and not ‘intangibly’ supporting the transgressions of the UMC, their financial resources will be tangibly supporting those whose beliefs and transgressions they do not condone. Such continued support of radicalized ‘Christianity’ will spell the demise of the denomination and, so too, all those churches who continued to remain under the banner of the UMC.
The UMC has a book of rules. The 2019 General Conference voted to keep those rules in place. Any pastor or congregation that chooses to ignore those rules should leave the denomination, but that is not happening. Because the senior leadership is afraid to confront the difficult societal issues, they have kicked the can down the road so far that congregations that support the Book of Discipline are asking to leave the denomination. In the end these weak leaders will have their way. As more and more traditionalist congregants and congregations leave the UMC, the non-biblical congregations will become the majority and the Book of Discipline will be changed. What will those remaining with the redesigned UMC get out of this? A continued decline of the denomination as is happening to other mainstream denominations, eventually becoming irrelevant.
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I’ve heard it for years from people wanting to justify their sins saying, GOD understands. The truth is, we have to understand GOD, not GOD understanding us!!!! And it’s all written in the Bible!!!!!!
please show true love to the community. making personnel choices as your criteria idolizes yourself over the Creator.
They are splintering because neither side are Methodists? The original Methodists were so named because they had a method of worship. The founding Wesley brothers and their American leaders taught the people to raise their hands and speak in tongues during worship, e. g. they were early Pentecostals 140 years before the generalized outpouring began. How often do either faction's churches do that today? When you reject God, he rejects you.
This like saying, we have people who also worship Zeus, and everybody is included. We support Zeus believers because they dont hurt anybody. Those things in the Bible about idolatry? Nah, we are inclusive. And our feelings are more important so let us keep having fun!
The biggest concerns is the down grading of the person and deity of Jesus Christ following the so called Progressives Christians denying the incarnation the crucifixion the burial and resurrection of Jesus.
At 4:02 Bishops and Clergy who are committed to the teachings and words of Jesus Christ.
Supposed to be. From the Bible. And God fearing men. And there is more.
@@nedraleggett6837 Yes, I am correcting the female pastor's twisting of words here.
Nearly all remaining UMC ministers and bishops lied in their ordination vows before God. As Christians, we must go to scripture and look at church history to tell us what marriage is. For the church to change that covenant and offer God's blessing through a change in His ritual, without scripture is a huge deal. But I have never heard any traditionalist Methodist pastor or congregation single out anyone or exclude anyone from church life. To say otherwise is bearing false witness and is emotional manipulation, "It's not who we are." The clergy and episcopacy continue to flagrantly defy Biblical law and church law (meant to uphold Biblical law in practice), and scoff at those who call them out. John Wesley preached about sanctifying grace that frees us from sin, and organized class meetings to help members walk the walk. How did we lose our way so badly?
When a congregation allows themselves to have their ears tickled and desires preached to them, this is what you get. Oh, that’s in the Bible.
2 Timothy 4:3-4, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth,.
The current focus has been on LGBTQ but the church has been normalizing sin for a while now. Divorce and remarriage were once taboo and was considered adultery since it was in the Bible. Now, it has become the new "norm".
Anything that threatens the promotion or protection of humanity is sin. It's just that simple.
Since we are all sinners, needing to be saved and cleansed in Christ and by the Holy Spirit, we all have a place in Christ's Church, regardless of what our sins are. This includes people who are homosexual and no one should feel that this cannot be the case. But quite another thing is when a particular congregation/denomination claims and seeks to bless sin(and I mean, for example, by blessing homosexual marriage) instead of helping with the healing. For as Saint Paul makes clear in his letter to the Romans, homosexuality is the result of sin that has entered us, corrupting the likeness of God in us, as are other things that are rooted in our way of being, being this likeness what all of us are called to recover by the Grace of God and the redemptive work of our Lord. And even when God takes us in his Mercy just as we are and we are made just in his eyes through Christ, the apostle clearly tells us that we should not use that freedom to continue sinning or, in other words, to justify or even bless sin. I am not saying with this that a person should be forced to stop being what they are or abandon their orientation, just as none of us can completely abandon other characteristics of ours, but the truth must be told with all its syllables and like everyone else, be aware of the reality and why we need Christ and his Church. From the love and mercy that we ourselves have received but never abandoning the Truth and being united in it, not surrendering to the spirit of time; seeking that people find inclusion in Christ and his redemptive work, and not that his Church and its faithful being inclusive in sin. May God have mercy on us and guide us.
Laodicea
Women in leadership is unbiblical. This was the beginning of the end for Methodism.
How often have we seen a road race on television or in person, and one of the runners collapses from exhaustion a short distance before the finish line? Some runners just keep running past the compromised runner and complete their races. However, some runners give up their chance to log in a record time by stopping to help a fellow runner that fell and could not possibly continue the race. Often the runner or runners that stopped to help will carry the exhausted runner to the finish line so that the runner can be included among those that finished the race. It is an excellent example of charity on the part of the helpful runners.
Imagine for a few moments that the road race is a type of metaphor for a church community. We are all running a race to the finish line, the Kingdom of God. I can’t help but believe that most of us if not all, would stop to help our fellow traveler that fell down and help to carry the person over the finish line. I think this is where we all need to grow as a church community with respect to inclusion versus exclusion.
Does our Christianity oblige us to say to our neighbors that they are not welcome to run in this race with us because our neighbors are gay, transgender, addicted, had an abortion, etc.? Or does our faith compel us to help our neighbors reach the finish line regardless of all those negative attitudes that caused them to feel excluded from our church?
In the Bible, we see that Simon of Cyrene was compelled to help Jesus carry His cross to the finish line. Little did Simon know that by helping this suffering condemned man, he was doing his small part for the salvation of all humankind. Although Simon was compelled to help Jesus, he acted and thus did his part to help. We can do our part by choosing to include and not exclude those that have historically been shamed and shunned by the church. May we learn to understand that we are all running in the same race, and by helping our fellow runners, we welcome all to our faith community without judgment. We are doing our part like Simon.
Christopher, I absolutely loved your statement!
Being a gay man who is religious and who never acted out my sexual nature, I want all churches to accept me as I am.
I rejected my actual sexuality and jumped into an 18 year marriage (4 children), but it was destined to end and it did.
Gay is an identity not an act.
Like heterosexuals, there is diversity in the gay community and it is not fair to lump them into the same basket.
Unfortunately, the gay community rebelled against its absolute abhorrence in the general American culture by "shoving gayness in people's faces" and this was wrong!
I think it all gets down to "What would Jesus think!"
What would Jesus think about the general non-acceptance of people who are gay?
I personally know that He would hate this just as He hated the Pharisees who thought ceremony was more important than people.
I was born gay and anyone who says it is a choice was not "born gay."
Christopher, this WOULD have been an apt metaphor for the first 200 years of Methodist church history. However, the UMC has left your metaphor behind due to the fact that they no longer recognize sin, and the need for repentance from that sin. They have instead " given themselves over" to their sin. As did Lot's wife, they continue to look back on, and desire, that from which they were told to flee. Sad, but true.
@@west8190 Dwelling on sin is not something Jesus did when on Earth!
For God's sake, get your mind out of the Middle Ages.
People are more important than bible verses!
@@leoinsf, people's actions are the problem. The thought exhibited by your statement is one of the primary causes for the split in today's church. You have fallen into thinking that your sin is more important than God's word. Else, you would repent. Jesus gave His life to save you from that sin, and yet, it appears that you repent not. I pray that I repent. I pray for you that you repent.
@@west8190 Jesus came to Earth to be "a living, breathing symbol of God's love for His sons and daughters," not to save us from sin!
Jesus was all about His brothers and sisters and the love they must have for one another, not theology or sin.
Yes, I was born gay but am not sinful as you presume about all gay people!
When one calls other people sinners, one lacks the humility and charity of "the people of God!"
I am a religious person and so I am not in need of repentance as you so insultingly surmise!
You use the whole "Jesus gave His life to save you from sin" as an "ego-thing."
By calling others sinners, you imply that you are not!
Get your head out of the bible and start seeing God in people.
Get your head out of the repentance thing and start seeing the potential for charity of the people of God!
Bible basic instructions before leaving earth😊
Seem forward leading like she was telling the people what they think and feel not asking them
Those leaving the UMC. are the only ones desponsible for the. Publicity . MyUMC vhurch is thruving Most are not leaving tbe Traditoonal UMC are waiting for hopefully no change in tve next 2024 Juridictional Conference.
I think all people should be able to go to a church but the church should help them see the light .
And not reject the light.
The prayers should ask for guidance. "Lord, what is your Will?" Was this discussed with the Congregation ? No... probably not. The book of Discipline is not the North Star. The Bible is. "Thou shalt add nor take away from his Word."
The woman pastor didn't open her Bible, why? because she didn't bring it, that's why also many others Methodist churches and members are going out because they generally speaking, don't read the Bible, I am leaving very soon also with the Global Methodist Church.
No, they don't believe Christ was born of a virgin, that He died to save us from our sin, and rose again on the third day. They do believe in abortion, doctor assisted suicide, sexual immorality, and all the societal ills pluaging us. My godly grandparents left the Methodist Church back in the 1920's when it drifted away from belief in the innerancy of Scripture. I am sure John Wesley, the Founder, would be horrified to see his once strong Christian church drift into such apostasy and immorality! I Timothy 4:1
Hey Johnny White, I appreciate your response but am a bit confused as to why you think that a church has to be all one way or the other. I agree that there needs to be a vision to unify a church and to set goals by. And as our Pastor stated in this video our church is defined by our commitment to mission, music, youth, and bringing scripture to life in the 21st century. I think that one of the strongest assets here at Sylva FUMC is the diversity of people who come to our worship service. There are not many churches where both traditional and praise music can live in the same service. Our church is a rare exception and I find it amazing that it works week in week out! We’re definitely not all the same mindset, but there’s a beauty to that because we learn to compromise and be aware of each other’s views. Hopefully what unifies us all in the end is a love of God above all else! Peace be with you.
Such nonsense- the beauty is to align one’s self with the Word of God and to die to self and our old ways. The 21st century has no special revolution to cause the church to change in doctrine- to be pleasers of men is cautioned against. We are to see sin for what it is and repent from it.
Compromising Gods Word in order to fill pews and the UMCs bank accounts is a dangerous path. It is a path of the Apostate church.
A lot of people like to quote Jesus . Do a quick read of Jesus’s brother Jude’s writing, or paul for that matter
There are a lot of small churches that have both traditional and "praise" music in the same service (typically the only service). As for "one way or the other" if you are part of a particular denomination then you should follow the rules of that denomination. Someone entering a Methodist church wouldn't expect to find Catholic mass being conducted on Sunday morning.
So because you can have unity in the diversity of the styles of music you play you think that justifies all being in unity over not calling out those of the congregation who openly live in and promote sin? That's not unity. That's compromise.
Here is what the Bible says you should do with members of your congregation who choose to live a lifestyle contrary to Scripture:
1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is intolerable even among pagans: A man has his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have been stricken with grief and have removed from your fellowship the man who did this? 3 Although I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit, and I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.
6 Your boasting is not good.
It says to put them out of your fellowship, not "boast" about it.
When it comes to SIN, yes, a church needs to be "all one way or the other."
Attention she said a a more traditional position, sorry, not true, it is a scriptural, in other words, do we believe the Bible or no, she refers to living acrotures a conteodoction to Biblical authority, so dad do we believe the Bible or wokness
I think it is well within the scope of Christianity to interpret the bible, aka make it "live". It is what we have been doing for at least a thousand years. Every translation that we read as modern language speakers is in fact an interpretation and some are based on the overall ideas of what is conveyed in a passage while others try to stick to word for word accuracy of the original sources. To make things more interesting there are often several ancient sources for a particular scripture that say slightly different things. A place to look and see these differences is in the New Revised Standard Version of the bible. So when you say that a more traditional viewpoint is the only one true to scripture, I have misgivings about that. First, there is a lot of new and well researched scholarship on the bible that draws conclusions contradictory to some traditional positions, but has scriptural, historical, and contextual evidence to back it up. Second, in order to make Christianity work in the 21st century we have to realize that our world has some differences to the one the bible was written in and as such we need interpretation and the Holy Spirit to bridge the gap. So with this in mind, I think there is biblical authority to interpretations of the bible that are less than traditional.
@@duncanlemay7446 This, exactly!...
@@duncanlemay7446
No where is scripture ambiguous about homosexuality, much less condone it. Sorry, but you have to do a lot of perverted logical twisting to made scripture say otherwise.
Or we could just be taking into account historical context and modern biblical scholarship that provides a clearer picture of what the original Greek text of the bible actually said. There's plenty of great research out there done by people smarter than me that provide logical arguments as to why homosexuality is rather ambiguous concept in the scriptures of Paul and the Old Testament. This is why I have this view.
@@duncanlemay7446 Again: Absolutely true! Congrats to your very kind words. People don't understand the whole environment on which the Bible was written to attend their times challenges... Let us to pick St. Paul for an instance. A man whom was jailed multiple times on foreign lands, and being subject to sodomy as a punishment to be spreading a new philosophy highly seen as bad by the dictators of the land, like was the use of the time. Would him back homosexual acts as they were? I hope not!... What he has eventually experienced is now a crime like it should be and that was most likely the context on which it was written... Sadly some of the most powerful religious leaders of today, while perfectly understanding it, are in a position where they fear the consequences of adopting it, hence the current state of the art of the Church. I have some hope though!...
Have a wonderful day! Oh: And don't feed those trolls, please. They wont listen anyway!...
Those leaving the UMC are the ones responsible for all the publicity. ,but most congregations are. Not going anywhere My family church congregation is thriving.,and have no plans to change, and not leaving the church to the destructive moves by those not compatible with Christian Teachings.
I wish those advocates of UMC, like this pastor, would not speak falsely about GMC to make their case. The UMC and GMC BOD are similar on the subject of homosexuality are similar. The difference is GMC churches and bishops abide by that while UMC leaders do whatever they wish. We had homosexual members when we were UMC and we have them now as GMC and they are welcome. What GMC doesn’t have is Bishops for life who can do whatever without consequences (until they reach judgement by God).
Segoraduhin nyo lang na matotolongan yung manga nagtratrabaho sa panginoon sa pamahalaan sa agreement ng ilio lema chabachani na kanyang templo adress asian summet law intl temple law pls help amen
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
“9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the
kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Leviticus 20:13
But then came God’s love which covered sin….Jesus…. Jesus brought grace, forgiveness, mercy…..and by Faith in God’s Son….people are saved because they receive the righteousness of Christ and God accepts them! Jesus! The Way back Home, the truth beyond all writings and the life which is eternal! Praise my Lord Jesus! God loves me!
A church is formed upon the Word of God and His Truth. A church is not about where the Word of God comes alive (according to how you have applied it over the years). It's about an absolute Truth that never changes. Take absolute Truth away and all you have is everyone else's interpretation and feelings - good luck finding any Biblical unity in that. As a pastor of many years I too do care what my flock THINKS is true. I do care what people and societies BELIEVE to be true. BUT I care far far MORE what the Bible SAYS to be true. And The Truth will always correct and offend many. Those that live in any sinful lifestyle will absolutely know, by the Word of God, that it is wrong... that it is a sin. And they will know it because it was presented clearly and it is preached solidly from the pulpit with love. I will not skip it, dodge it, cover it up or hide it. If it is in God's Word it will be preached, taught, wrestled with and hopefully applied. It's a sad thing to see what was once such a solid church denomination continuing to split over things such as this. But sadly this has to be done because Truth of God is paramount. God's Truth is worth it and this is just God continuing to refine His church through generations and generations of sinful thinking and corruption. Everyone who reads this post know this... you are responsible for what you believe to be true. You. Be VERY careful what you believe... because you are going to believe it! Remain humble, and search the Scriptures for what is true. Remain teachable, so you are reachable for God's glory not your own.
This is a prime example of the devil dividing the church
Romans 1
I didn't agree with the Pastor. Church isn't about who we are it's is about Jesus and his word. I think that all churches are going through this. We need prayer as a people of faith.
It is so heartbreaking to see the cruel and self serving way the leftist liberal conferences are treating churches that do NOT want to follow the liberal's love of the LGBTQ community. God NEVER said Adam and Steve or Alice and Eve! He calls this perverted lifestyle an abomination. He hated it so much He wiped Sodom and Gomorrah off the face of the planet for being so perverted. I left the UMC because of the leftist leanings the church was beginning to take on.
This is all part of the bolshevik plan, to undermine Christianity.
You have to follow the Bible and marriage is between a man and a woman. Teach truth the right way or no way
Women priests is a problem, too.
Have church committees come to the realization that young people wouldn't darken the doors of our Middle Ages churches: circa 1500 (like the United Methodist Church and the Catholic Church)?
In my own family (6 brothers and sisters) absolutely none of our young people become church members (Catholic Church) once they move out the family home.
Science modernizes! Medicine modernizes!
Christianity doesn't need to modernize???
The reality is that once our middle and old age church members die off, there will be no one to take their place and Christianity will die out!
I can understand why you might think larger denominational churches might all be gone in 50 to 70 years. But here in Western North Carolina I am seeing some pretty vibrant UMC churches in action. A lot of what is currently making them vibrant is the inclusion of after-school programs for kids, heavy involvement in mission work, the inclusion of traditional and modern worship music, and shifts in thinking that are in line with modern civil liberties. So in my experience, there are churches in our congregation that are modernizing Christianity per say. Whether or not this will continue to make the non-traditionalist UMC vibrant for 50 to 70 more years I do not know. But I hope it will, because we need to have as many churches as we can that show god’s love extends to the LGBT community and provide meaningful mission work to the community. Have a blessed day.
@@duncanlemay7446 Dearest Duncan, I appreciate your kind response!
Little did you know that I am an inactive gay person and your kind words re. outreach to the LGBT community were appreciated.
I absolutely hate to say what I said, but there is a reality going on here: our young people are not joining churches. (Period!)
I am an 86 year old gay person who attempted to marry a woman (4 children) and the marriage worked for 18 years.
The reality is that gay people are born the way they are and churches need to welcome gay marriage and honor the rights of the gay people of the world.
Toleration of gay people which is what churches seem to think is adequate is very unChristlike!
What would He think!
@@leoinsf Our Catholic Church has an abundance of children attending the Mass I go to, so there are young families going to church; they even added a Mass on Sunday. Not all churches are dying.
@@donnam1257 I am not talking about "children."
I am talking about "young people" who finally move out of their Catholic homes to live on their own.
They are not choosing to practice their family religion (Catholicism) once they move out!
Unlike their parents, they are not worried or too frightened to "common sense" about their religious beliefs.
It is so easy to turn over religious details to the priests of the Catholic Church and sit in a pew.
Unlike their parents, they choose to think on their own!
No, not all churches are dying! ...... Yet!!!
@@leoinsf Sadly, so true. Worse here in Europe, perhaps!... For some kids, Confirmation day with the Bishop means... Liberation day from Church!... They don't come anymore. A few would to come in the following weeks, then they start to disperse... In most Parishes there is a huge gap from the kids and the youngest ones coming from themselves as an adult. I'm on my late 40's and I'm usually among the youngest of my Parish after the Catechism! And now the Bishops are doing Chrism at 15 or 16, in some cases even lower that age... A few years ago we would have kids till they were 18... Now it is even less... Lord have mercy!... Of course Christianity won't die tomorrow. There will always be a need for some Churches, and the inclusive ones will perhaps to be the ones more resilient in the long run... But religion will be such a "niche market" in the west for sure. I pray that our "Synod on Synodality" would open some doors on our Catholic Church. They have no error margin to fail this time like they failed in the 60's to 90's... Now; or modernize, or die. If they decide to die they'll to die, but it will be a long and painful process. Ok, forgive me the out of topic, but this seems to be a good conversation place!... Have a nice day!...
Are you for truth or what please tell us you have to follow the Bible . I admit I have sin but the Bible is the whole truth.
I’m an Episcopalian but I have high respect for the UMC for the live and compassion you have, just like we have in the Episcopal Church, that we don’t discriminate against anyone. We are all children of God in all of our iterations. Jesus didn’t discriminate against anyone, isn’t He who we should be following?
If you follow Jesus then you must follow His word. You’re trying to follow your own heart and what you think is right according to the world today. Jesus never said follow me in whatever way you feel right about. Never once did He say that so why are you trying to act like He did?
Either you follow Him 100% and not just in the ways you like but also in the ways that might be uncomfortable for you. There’s no middle ground brother. Compassion is great but it alone will not bring you to Heaven.
The term “God’s child” is reserved for those IN Christ. One is either a child of God or a child of wrath. Jesus led people to the Truth. That is, to repentance. Episcopal church has gone full blown apostate.
It makes me sick. Taking God's word and trusting like Satan does to suit your beliefs. May God gave mercy you for desecration his word.
You know somewhere else everyone belongs with no discrimination? HELL
It can't happen to us . The Bible should be the first thing all church's follow and this proves your not following the Bible
I think all people should be welcome in the church . Homosexuals as well. They need Jesus also . I do believe that God made man for a woman . So as far as homosexual weddings or homosexual preachers in the church that is an abomination to God . God word says so ..
Whoa!!!!
You were a Christian until "So far as homosexual weddings or homosexual preachers . . . that is an abomination to God."
After that statement you became a Pharisee and we all know what Jesus thought of Pharisees!
@@leoinsf if you claim to be a follower of Jesus and truly saved you will not want to sin . You will want to obey Jesus. Jesus said if you love me you will obey my commandments . A homosexual wedding is a sin to God and is not a real wedding to God . If we truly love God we will obey him and not do it our way but His way . No where in the Bible did Jesus say homosexual lifestyle was accepted by Him . God created a man and a women to marry and to replenish the earth with children . When the animals got on the boat before God flooded the earth the animals were male and female of the same animals etc.. God also set with sinners of every kind but he encourage them to be saved and stop their sin . If you are really saved you will not sin against God s commandments .
But that’s not what is happening. High level leaders in the American UMC are affirming homosexuality and cross-dressing as NOT sins. It’s the opposite of what should be taught by a church.
@@keithwilson6060 That's right!
Sin seems to be the province of the Christian Church
at a time when science is opening frontiers that show that things like homosexuality are a reality for those born that way.
I was born into a Catholic family and never learned to accept my own reality as a gay man.
Marriage for 18 years and 4 children was the only avenue open to me and, of course, it ended!
Why do you make the statement:
" High level leaders in American UMC are affirming homosexuality and cross-dressing as NOT sins?"
Only people like you live in a "sin universe."
Jesus certainly did not live in a "sin universe."
You are not part of Jesus' universe!
Please know there are gay people (like me) who have never had a gay relationship in their life.
To accuse me of "sin" when you know nothing about me, my life and my attitudes.
You show a total lack of Christian charity toward me and my community!
Jesus would not approve!
The only one qualified to be a pastor in a church is one above reproach in every way. The Bible books of Timothy, Titus, Ephesians 4, etc; explain the requirements for a pastor/elder. They cannot be a man who desires to be rich. (Titus 1:7, 1 Timothy 3:4-5) They can only be men, not women, and men of sexual purity, the husband of one wife. Their children have to be Christians and not rebellious. Pastors are to be equipping the saints for the work of service, teaching the Bible from cover to cover with no additions or subtractions and no teachings of men. God teaches in Jeremiah that many men ran to be pastors, but they were not called of God and they taught false doctrines as many do today in the name of the styling churches. These false pastors in Jeremiah's day taught the wealth and prosperity false gospel. Jeremiah is completely applicable to today.
The false pastors of today include John Piper and the likes, they being of the reformed/Calvin churches who teach the false teachings of Calvin and Augustine-the father of the Catholic church who was an idolator, praying to the false Mary of idolatry. They are anti-semites, removing the Jews from the Scriptural picture. However, one day all the Jews will be saved as the Bible teaches and the Messiah of the Bible will rule the world from Jerusalem, and people will grab the garment of a Jew and ask to worship God with them.
Stephen is an example of what a pastor and deacon should represent. He taught through the Bible. He provided a walk through the Bible before he was stoned to death. He was a man of character, being above reproach. The arriving 144,000 male, virgin Jews of the tribulation period will never compromise the Word of God. They represent the heart of true pastors who will die for the faith. They will not take the mark of satan and his talking idol. (Revelation chapter 13)
Many false teachers, including Franklin Graham, walk as one with idolators. They walk with idolatrous Catholics as if Christians are one with them. God commands come out and be separate and this includes separation from idol worshippers. (Please study 2 Corinthians chapter 6, etc.) God declares, idolators will be cast into the lake of fire.
God judges the churches as we read in the first three chapters of Revelation and this addresses idolatry as well. Please study these chapters and the book of Jude. Plus, 2 Peter chapters 2-3. Learn your Bibles from cover to cover so you are never led astray by the ways of sinful men who claim to be pastors or evangelists. This is the day of the worldly/styling false church as God predicted would arrive.
Married women are to wear the head-covering in church, have long hair (1 Corinthians chapter 11), dress modestly so men look on them as sisters in all purity. (1 Timothy 2, and 5:2) And they must be silent in the churches (1 Corinthians 13:34)
Of course all people should be welcome but it’s totally unnecessary & wrong to celebrate or encourage lgbtq sexual desires.
This is a Christian Church who knows how to do it right.
Just make your own religion. This isn’t following Christ and The Word of God.
She’s said a bunch of nothing.
Part of the reason stands as a pastor. The Bible states a women is unqualified to be a pastor or to preach but you went against gods word and allowed it anyway. So now you are doing it again with homosexuality allowing it in after god said it was and abomination. Get the sin out of the camp. Take gods word for what is says not what you want it to say.
She never actually stated what the conference actually voted in! Such a farce! Get out now!
If you look at the date this video was posted in the description, you'll see that it was made over a year before the General Conference made the decision to strike the anti LGBT language from the book of discipline. If you are going to make comments on this video, I ask that you please make them with more thorough thoughtfulness than this...
I’m a British Methodist. I just came across this and think the minister spoke powerfully and with love for all her congregants. I’m quite shocked by these comments.
There is plenty in the Bible you could shift to justify a position if you want to. But…I’m not too keen on keeping slaves or banging babies heads on rock!! We all have our views but let’s be kind, honest and not terrified by othering people. So, What would Jesus do? Do. Thats the key word. Where’s God in the world. Right now. Jesus would not leave Christians who love him to be condemned in the margins. I live in a very small English village and two Christian men are marrying in our Methodist chapel as they want to thank God for love shared with us. Praise the Lord!
Please don’t call me woke! Being valued and included in love with Christ is more important. God Bless.
Suzanne,, what would Jesus do, He would command us that if we love Him, we keep His commandments of the Old Testament, and the New Testament, that we repent of our sins, and trust in His shed blood on Calvary, and believe the Bible. I encourage you to read the Word from cover to cover, and believe it. I doubt you have done that!
That’s very unkind and without knowledge of what I have done and feel.
Indeed I have read…. And my view is based on love - I hope - and forgiveness. God Bless
@@suzannegunton3119you value should be what God teaches and what Jesus demands. What you think or feel is irrelevant in the sense of what God demand from us. Whatever teaching against what the Bible teaches is not from God but from the other side. The church is not a social club to scratch each other's back and feel good.
Close Bible study, human reason, experience and tradition - that’s the Methodist quadrilateral. And it’s all held together in love for your fellow human being. I live by this. Please let’s be loving people of God and less angry.
All it would take is to look very carefully at the original Hebrew and Greek of the scriptures regarding what the Word of God ACTUALLY says about homosexuality. One example Gen 19 it says "All the men of Sodom...where are the men?" The Hebrew for "men" is enowsh which has been translated as "people" in dozens of places. There is not one reason why Gen 19 can't be translated "All the people of Sodom...where are the people?" There is many more scriptures like that which needs very careful study.
אִישׁ
masculine noun
H582 (or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant); a man as an individual or a male person; often used as an adjunct to a more definite term
You as a pastor stated that some of you are of a traditional mind and some of you aren't of a traditional mind. Which present a serious problem.
The Word Of God explicitly states:
James 1:8 (KJV).
08. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Which interprets as:
08. A double minded (church congregation) is unstable in all (their) ways.
So you need to stop fooling yourself and your congregation. A pastor and a congregation who are "unstable in all their ways" are not capable of providing families and community what they need. And if you can't provide what the community needs then you have no purpose within the said community.
Amen
This church is done
Your church is not of God, Satan has entered your church and smiles, seated in the last pew, you let in homosexuality and through the word of God from the window and mock gods house, god will not be mocked, you will answer
Wow, I am surprised to see so many negative comments here. Pastor Mary, THANK YOU for your leadership. I very much appreciate everything you are saying here.
You need to read the bible KJV or older, and pray for understanding.
KJV and older translations can be a source of knowledge, but they can also be subject to inaccuracies. The translators of KJV took liberties with the wording of their translation and they state so in their opening preface. KJV and older translation are like other bible translations, some of it is inherently interpretation because we have lost the exact meaning of some of the original Greek/Hebrew words or the source material used for translating a passage is slightly differently than other possible source material. I am puzzled why you think that older English translations are more spiritually acceptable than modern ones. Each have their strengths and weaknesses. We have more scholarly knowledge, resources, and early biblical source material to draw on now than we did at the time of older translations. Wouldn't this greater abundance of resources mean that modern translations are more accurate? Not only that, but even the text of the popular KJV translation has changed over the years. According to Rick Norris' book on this there are over 2000 word changes in the KJV from its original form in 1611 to the post 1900 version and of those changes he states that "136 changes were of substance". Even more puzzling, we don't know what people made those changes according to the scholarship of Frederick Scrivener & David Norton.
So interesting, Johnny White, and misleading, that you would pick one single verse, OUT OF CONTEXT, to support your contention that differences of opinion make our church "unstable". The context of James 1:8 has to do with a person's faith in God, who God is, and God's willingness to hear and answer our prayers. It has nothing to do with belief about right or wrong when it comes to homosexuality!! If one is TRULY trying to live out the gospel and reflect the love of God, as shown through the example of Jesus, it seems to me that God is MUCH more concerned with being compassionate than God is with being "right". As Micah 6:8 states: But what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, love kindness and walk humbly with your God". This says NOTHING about sexuality, nor about being "right"(eous). In the end, and according to Jesus' own example, people need to be welcomed and included and to feel that they belong and then, between each person and God, they can work out their own salvation. The church's job is to offer invitation and love - not judgement. I am glad that Sylva FUMC has decided to stay the course as a member of our inclusive denomination!
Rejecting the Word of God is not "walking humbly with God" it is the exact opposite. It is hatred and rebellion against God and one's neighbor.
@@SimplyReformed Matt 19:23-26 says it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God - There are way more passages that focus on money and the evils of money - and yet not very many churches focus on those scriptures. . .
She is forgetting the Biblical stance on a church’s foundation!
A caring and courageous pastor. Her comments are the start of sincere Christian conversations. There is so much more to the Holy Bible than what one group or another wants to quote. Prayering for this congregation.😊
She only invites the dialogue so she can “encourage you in prayer” as the UMC continues down the path of woke.
So sorry but God states very clearly in scripture…male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 ~ If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Jude 1:7 ~ Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Romans 1:26-28 ~ For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
P. S. What type of Bible are you reading? Or are you ignoring Gods Truth? His judgements are coming stronger around the world. Pastors who preaching false info have a deeper hell. That’s strong but it’s God’s Truth.
We can not continue to sin since we have Christ.
One more thing…living in sin God does not hear your prayers until you truly repent from your sin and live a Holy Life.
Gods Word us very clear. Don’t know what Bible the church is using.
Gods Truth must be obeyed.
I think actions speak louder than words (and some of the commenters here have a lot of words but I doubt fruitful action). Sylva First UMC is known for being a force for God's love and goodness in their community and that's truly what matters. And Rev. Mary Brown is a far better preacher and leader than some of the male pastors I have met and known in my life. I hope and pray that someday Christians everywhere will actually live by the words of Jesus, rather than judging one another on their gender, whether they said the right words or followed the rules to the letter and start bearing fruit. Jesus said, “If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples” (John 15:7-8, NIV)
Barby, you are right about the lady pastors being more moral and upstanding than a lot of male pastors. But we need to stick to Scripture, and not water it down to fit societal norms! Paul says in Titus and I Timothy that women are not to have the spiritual teaching over men in the church. If we reject the Bible, we reject Christ, and we will not enter Heaven!
First, pastors, elders and deacons, those who lead the church and preach the word (teaching bishop), are only to be male. The downfall of any church is if it allows women this role. The reason Paul forbade women to teach men is that their role is to be housewives and mothers, and to keep silent in the church, asking their husbands questions at home. Of course, women can lead the choir, play the instruments, teach women's and childrens groups, etc. but are forbidden to have the teaching authority over men. This is very clear in I Timothy and Titus. When a church become apostate, as has the UMC, Episcopal, PCA, ELC, etc it abandons Biblical doctrine in favor of a watered down message that the "itching ears" Paul refers to, then apostasy sets in and God's spirit abandons the church, not wanting to follow "sound" biblical doctrine, as churches are commanded to do, especially with sexual ethics and marriage.
The people splintering off will never be happy. These people always live each looking for issues to be aggrieved. Next up abortion? Immigration? Role of women in not just church but society?
Let's stick to Biblcal truths and salvation soley in Christ, and "be not conformed to this world, and its teachings, not after Christ, but after the philosophy and vain teachings of this world"-Colossians 2:8 & 9.
Most of the congregations splintering will receive God's rewards for their faithfulness. It is about following Christ, not about what makes me feel a certain way. The UMC will become a social club and irrelevant. God will not support them and they will be nothing.
Church is not for celebrating people, as a Pastor, where are you leading your flock..... We love people, gay or straight, all are sinners, but we are not to accept and embrace all earthly sins. Being gay is not a sin, living it out is. Calling someone traditionalist, is like calling women cis women.....Just call them what they are, instead of these make up words. They are just Christians and Women. lets pray this church to get back on the narrow way....narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.....🙏🙏🙏
Only if you repent of your sins lady.
What does the Bible say about homosexuality? That is your guidebook for all of your life’s decisions.
As a former lay leader attending Houston conference. All I saw was old elderly broken down people bitching about modern life. No joy in their hearts. I tell my staff don't bring me problems bring me solutions. Old people talking about how great America was in the 50s. Dear Lord!!!
This comment section is disgusting and hypocritical. I am appalled at how cruel some folks are acting here. From discrimination against Mary as a female pastor, to just the blatant homophobia. Just deplorable hypocrisy. Shame on all of you.
The comments here reflect Truth. As ordained by God and His word. Christ never defined “love” as not hurting someone’s feelings. He led people to the Truth. He talked repentance. By the way, Christ backed up the prophets of old.
Women can not be preist, this is heresy