Sounds of Blade Runner: Making of a Cover #3 (Tears in Rain)
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- For Keyboardists & Fans of Blade Runner Soundtrack
Discussion/demonstration of my attempts to get Classic Vangelis sounds out of Modern Equipment.
CS-80 Blade Runner Brass, Strings, CS-80 style Flute, MiniMoog Bass, etc.
Correction at 20:45. After more experimenting, I now think that the Exponential/Concave Curve I was hearing on the Attack of the Blade Runner Patch is coming from Aftertouch and not the Attack Curve. I think the Attack Curve is Logarithmic/Convex, as is typical on most synthesizers. I currently think setting the Filter Attack curve to Log 40 and the Amp Attack to Log 25 is the closest to the CS-80, but I would love for someone to point me to a more objective report about these curves.
At 18:05, I say that the CS-80 has two complete, single oscillator synthesizers... and that is not correct. It has two complete synthesizers, but they have more than one oscillator, although those oscillators cannot be detuned within the layer. The point I was trying to make was that the CS-80 is unusual because most synthesizers have two or three oscillators which can be detuned, octave adjusted, and volume mixed before going into the filter/s and amplifier. The CS-80 actually has three oscillators in both layers (saw, square/pulse, and sine) and these three can all in fact be activated at the same time (which is unusual), but they cannot be tuned by octave or detuned independently. The sine wave is added after the filters, and its volume can be adjusted separately from the saw/pulse waves. In most analog synthesizers, we tune and detune the two or three oscillators before they go into the filter/s and amp, but with the CS-80, any detuning needs to be done between the two separate internal synthesizers.
For HydraSynth users: I use the Steiner-Parker filter, just a hint of Flanger, and a single saw Oscillator on both layers.
After questions, here are some details about how I record: I record my audio into a version of a DAW called Cubase. I record the video with a FujiFilm X-H1 camera. I then combine the audio and video recordings together in iMovie on a Mac. I use the analog to digital converter in the Yamaha Montage by running my mixer into the Audio In of the Montage, which is connected to Cubase/Mac via usb.
I have tried for years to emulate music by Vangelis, particularly the music from Blade Runner, and have never come anywhere near the level that you have achieved. Your dedication, ability and success at doing just that is so inspiring. If I wore a hat, I would tip my hat to you.
Thanks so much! I rewatched my "Making of End Titles Cover" yesterday, which I made about 15 months ago and noticed that I gradually keep making progress, so keep at it!
Your discussions about how you recreate these sounds and the keyboards you use, makes me appreciate them even more. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your comments! I'm usually a little unsure about releasing videos like this, so I'm very glad when people find them interesting.
Analog has such a rich full sound that you cannot get from today's digital workstations
I spent 1000's of hours tweaking sounds until I got the one that just felt different but in a good way.
Your style of work is amazing my friend.
I will be working on doing some more Vangelis covers very soon but I want to re-create them and add new elements and parts to them.
I enjoy working with the original style just as well but I am always trying to emulate a new style over top of his work.
I find the process of covering such music as Vangelis to be a wonderful journey into synths of all kinds since he was one of the first major composers to complete an entire soundtrack using just synths and samples.
This man could play multible keyboards plus use his foot pedals to gain so many different sounds all working at once...it boggles the mind how someone can do all that in one live session with no mistakes.
That is what makes Vangelis a legend in synth music.
The real admiration I hold for this composer is that he could play an entire composition in one take he was a musical genius or wizard who understood the sound design spectrum and that is what made him so original.
He often spoke about the music industry in a way that he disliked it but it was a love hate relationship he never wanted to be known as a classical composer or pop star but he needed to play the game in order to get the funds to build his dream studio.
He said I love music and sounds but once the music industry gets a hold of my work they think in terms of profits hence I become a product and my musical democracy suffers because of it.
He said I can't play the music I want to play anymore because now I am a multi hit artist or branded product of my success in the movie aspect of it.
I too share the same disdain for today's industry in how they try to mandate what you can sound like.
Music is the language everyone understands no matter where you come from it moves us all in the same way and speaks to us in a pattern of musical progressions and melodies structured with sounds that make us feel something when we listen to them.
Your work ethic reminds me so much of him and that is a huge compliment to you my fellow composer.
lastly remember there is only one rule in music and that rule is that there are no rules....as long as it sounds right you have it.
Well done on this cover thank you for sharing your work with us my friend look forward to your future Vangelis covers cheers.
Thank you very much indeed for your comments! "Analog has such a rich full sound that you cannot get from today's digital workstations" This has also been my experience with workstations; I do sometimes think the Hydrasynth may be getting close to the richness of analog, although I haven't spent as much time with it yet. "...it boggles the mind how someone can do all that in one live session with no mistakes." Indeed! Although, he recorded so much more than he ever released, and so I suspect that he made mistakes along the way too. He also did a great deal of overdubbing, which sometimes we forget. I read a "Sound on Sound" article this week that interviews a few of his engineers, and they describe him improvising melodies and leads and then doing a lot of overdubbing, especially with strings. I think he was able to do more complete work, with less overdubs, later, as MIDI technologies allowed him to do so. "Your work ethic reminds me so much of him and that is a huge compliment to you my fellow composer." It certainly is; thank you so very much! The big difference is that I am spending a lot of time trying to get close to his brilliance, while he was on another level, rather quickly creating that brilliance. Thank you very much, and I look forward to more great work from you too. www.soundonsound.com/people/vangelis-recording-nemo-studios
Спасибо за великолепный комментарий, выводы относительно значения Музыки, как, языка понимания между людьми.
Спасибо за ваши Коментарии.
Vangelis actually liked to use the presets in the '80 and would tweek from there. Im 67 so I remember how much time was needed to get the 'right' sound. Oh my, then the midi nightmares! I enjoy your efforts and you are a masterfull olayer.
Thanks! Dialing in the sounds can be very time consuming and rather frustrating, but it makes all the difference and is frequently one of the most satisfying parts of the process. For the last four months, I have been trying to dial in the elusive lead patch for Blade Runner Blues and am finally getting really happy with it. I don't think I've ever spent so much time on another patch, but I find the results satisfying. Yes; here is a great example of how Vangelis used presets: ruclips.net/video/oDR3hEackYY/видео.html
Pppfff! I'm speechless! Amazing reproduction! The cs-80 sounds are out of this world! Always loved them in Vangelis's music.
Thanks so much! Getting these sounds from other gear is a work in progress, but it's gratifying when they get close. I've always loved his sounds too, especially from around that time period.
Indeed; the sounds that Vangelis got out of the CS-80 are other worldly! Glorious.
Oh boy, such a dedication to get to the original sounds. Incredible job once more! For me personal: you can add additional "boring" stuff in your next video ;-) I wouldn't mind 🙂
Thanks so much! As this was uploading, I was having second thoughts about it, so I'm glad you liked it. It's hard to know what to include without losing the audience.
@@TaurusTarkus You'll never loose me on this :-)
@@TaurusTarkus pls upload all ur videos about Vangelis's music
@@unknow9339 I continue to try to learn and make improvements and will try to share more at some point.
This is awesome.
Thanks! These are fun videos to make, and it means a lot that you enjoy them. (The music videos are fun too, but they're a lot more work!)
Just love hearing those sounds played live,o followed Vangelis from the beginning of the 80s so his sound is in my soul,you have recreated those sounds perfectly
Thanks so much for the encouragement! It helps during the days when I feel like I'm not getting anywhere.
Love this song! Great job - you nailed it!
Many thanks for your comments!
Полифоническое множество наложений, сочетаний звуков по силе вибрации, амплитуде, частотам, длительности - это новая физика композиции и новый космос для восприятия человеческим слуховым анализатором. Это очень интересная область исследований
Интересно, как Вангелис разработал такой сложный звук, выстраивая звуковые слои. Я думаю, что, возможно, это был лучший звук, чем тот, который он смог получить позже с помощью MIDI.
Awesome video! Very interesting!
Thanks so much! I hope you find the other three interesting as well.
Sublime 👌
Thanks so much!
VERY impressive. Wow
Thanks very much!
Thank you for the tips, I'm looking forward to trying to reproduce that sound on my hydrasynth
In addition to what's in the video, I'll add that I use the Steiner-Parker filter, I added just a hint of Flanger, and I'm using a single Oscillator on both layers.
Genio , bestia , maquina , idolo , figura , crack ,
Grazie
I was waiting for the boring part to start, but it never did... 😉
Loved the video!
Thanks for making it through the whole thing! It's hard to know what to include without losing the audience.
bro u genius
Many thanks, but Vangelis was the genius.
@@TaurusTarkus Agree
Hi! Yay! Another ‘Making of’ video from Taurus Tarkus! Love and appreciate your work … Still saving for my Rev2 16 keyboard; almost there … 😏 Thanks again for these; both helpful and inspiring! 🙏🏼 Good to hear your daughter is doing well in Sth Korea … What an adventure! Be well! 😎👍🏼
Your Hydra patch is sounding great, too, btw! Was already lusting after one of those: 6 octaves of poly-AT, a 4 octave ribbon and 16 voices of that synth engine … 🤤 This video did nothing to ‘help’ that, lol
Thanks so much! It probably didn't help your efforts to get a Rev2 that they seem to have gotten more expensive over the last few years. Keyboards have always been so expensive. I try to remind myself that, like computers, they are in fact much cheaper than they used to be. Throughout most of my life, I've been saving to buy another instrument. Yes; Megan is really enjoying her time in Korea and recently had a great trip to Thailand.
Yesssss! Great 👍👏
Thanks!
The vibes!! Awesomee!
Many thanks!
Hi, it seems that we share the same 'obsession' for Vangelis and the sound of this synths. I have just covered the Bounty End Titles and...Tears in Rain. I am very impressed with your sound..and the fact that you play mostly live! Kudos. I am the lucky owner of some of the original stuff that Vangelis used...including the Yamaha CS80 (paid a very reasonable amount for it). BTW: stacking strings is the ultimate solution for getting the lush Vangelis sound. Which reverb do you use - that also sounds fantastic.
Hello Jose! Many thanks. We do indeed share the same obsession! We also started buying synthesizers around the same time, although you wisely have kept more of the vintage instruments. I got your message last night during a layover/delayed flight from Japan (which looks quite a lot like Blade Runner). While there, I was able to spend some time with a CS-80 at Innovation Road: the Yamaha Corporation Museum in Hamamatsu. I have only played one a few times prior. This morning I've been checking out and subscribing to your channel. Thanks for the tip about layering strings: I agree that this is probably what Vangelis did in order to get his string sounds at Nemo Studio. (I use Valhalla Vintage Reverb.) I notice that you use Omisphere: I have decided to get it because of the Vangelis set and especially the Blade Runner Blues patch. This is a sound I've been working to get closer to. Do you have any advice for how to get this patch? I believe it was on the CS-80, and sometimes I think it may have been the Flute preset blended with something else? I look forward to your next video. Regards.
Those synths sound amazing! You should do some songs of the Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack. One of my favorite is Joi, opening track 2049, Sea Wall
Thanks! And thanks for the suggestions; I will check those out. I'm not as familiar with 2049. I need to watch it again.
Equipamento fantástico o seu😊
Muito obrigado!
sou um brasileiro apaixonado por vangelis. cara, vc e demais. falei com minha esposa sobre o quanto vc ivestiu em equipamentos para ser um cover de vangelis parabens. nos, no brasil, e muito dificil em razao do custo dos equipamentos.
My sister-law is from Brazil, although I have never been. I started saving all my birthday and Christmas money for synthesizers when I was in junior high school - 40 years ago, but I have been lucky with instruments too. Many players are selling all their hardware keyboards and using the software instruments, which are much cheaper (GX-80). Like computers, synthesizers have never been cheaper than they are now. It's a great time to be a keyboard player.
Nice brass patch for the Hydra!
Many Thanks! They are the reason I bought the HydraSynth!
@@TaurusTarkus I also recently bought one, would love to steal your patch ;)
realy enjoyed the covers, and now this video, great work!
@@Hypnofunk I sometimes think about putting together some patches to sell, especially on the Prophet Rev2. I use the Steiner-Parker filter, and I added just a hint of Flanger. I wish you the best with it. I'm still trying to get my head around some things with the HydraSynth. There's only so much time in a day.
@@Hypnofunk Thanks! Remember that there are two earlier "Making of" videos like this one.
I just recently discovered your videos and have subscribed. Your videos are awesome! I too, am a great fan of Vangelis. I was wondering how you record yourself. I am just a hobbyist but I would like to video myself at some point, mainly to catch mistakes, but also to maybe share with a few friends. I have tried it with the video camera on an iPhone and an iPad, but the mic records at quite a low volume unless I really crank up the sound as I’m playing. I am very much a newby at this kind of thing, so any pointers you could share would be greatly appreciated. Keep putting out your great videos
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. Unfortunately, the technologies needed to make a good audio recording are not the same as those needed to make a good video recording, and so making a video that looks and sounds good is more difficult than what I used to think. I record my audio into a version of a DAW called Cubase, which is included for free when you purchase things like a Yamaha Montage or even a handheld recorder like a Zoom H1n. I record the video with a digital camera (in my case a FujiFilm X-H1). I then combine the audio and video recordings together in iMovie on a Mac. You could use a different DAW, different camera, including an iPhone, and different "movie" software. But I don't think you can get good results without taking the time to combine the two. When we see a video of a film being made, and they clap the two pieces of wood together as a marker, they are going to use that crack of a sound to combine the great audio from the mics with the poor audio from the cameras. Additionally, in order to get a good digital audio recording from an analog instrument or a traditional mic, we need to use an analog to digital converter. The Yamaha Montage has its own converter: it has Audio In jacks, which can then be converted to a digital signal and sent via USB to the DAW for recording. Many people start with a Focusrite Scarlett Analog to Digital converter; I bought one but found that my Montage worked better for my purposes. I run everything that goes into my mixer into the Audio In of the Montage, which is connected to Cubase. Like most musicians, I'd prefer to play and let the video and audio recording to someone else. I always found DAWs and cameras intimidating and a pain to learn... but now I wish I had put in the effort to learn more about these technologies many years ago. The benefits are really worth the aggravation.
@@TaurusTarkus thank you so much for your reply. I probably have what I need between my Mac computer and my iPhone. I just need to learn how to use it all and how to sync the audio and video together. Thanks again and I look forward to watching more of your videos.
@@timmartin56 I find DAWs a little challenging to learn. I just try to remember that I can't learn it all in one day, and gradually you make progress.
@@TaurusTarkus I actually won a copy of Ableton Live 9 in an online draw a few years back. I have dabbled with it a bit but I find it quite overwhelming. I need to find the time to watch some instructional videos and learn my way around it.
@@timmartin56 I still find DAWs pretty overwhelming. I decided to initially just focus on using it like a traditional audio tape machine, and then gradually learned more and more.
great video!! two questions please: 1. Vangelis used a lot of volume pedals, specially on strings, haven't you tried to use them? and 2. Wonderful reverb! which reverb do you use? greetings from Chile
Thanks! I use Valhalla Vintage Verb, which may be my only plug-in. I believe that it is based on a Lexicon 224, which is what Vangelis used. I have things to learn about how to program it, and perhaps I had a little too much on for this video? I'm going to try to attach a picture so that you can see what my pedals look like. The ones on the far left are for guitar, there's a Leslie Preamp/switch, then a volume and sustain for the Prophets, then two volume pedals for the Yamaha, a sustain pedal for the Yamaha and another for the HydraSynth, a volume for the HydraSynth, and then a switch that I sometimes use with Yamaha. You may be interested to watch my video of Inferno, which (other than a brief overdub toward the beginning) I recorded live on just the Yamaha. I start on just piano and then one volume pedal brings in/out Strings, Woodwinds (e.g. Bassoon), and Timpani, while the other volume pedal controls the volume of Orchestra Brass. I liked the effect so much that I give the viewer a brief cutaway so that you can see it in real time. I posted a picture here:
www.youtube.com/@TaurusTarkus/community
@@TaurusTarkus thank you your interesting answer and photo
Does your setup let you do a B3 style Lesli?
My Leslie is labeled 122 but it has a 147 amp, making it essentially a 147. With a Preamp pedal, I can then send 1/4" signal into it. I hardwired a box into the Hammond so that I can run a 1/4" jack out of it. All that allows me to add effects, between the organ and the Leslie, which a traditional connection between a Hammond and Leslie doesn't allow. I can also run other signals to the Leslie but generally do not, despite really liking what Richard Wright did (e.g. Meddle). As you can see, my Leslie is kind of buried in there and doesn't have any mics hardwired. So when I want to record it, it's kind of a pain. You can best see it with mics in my video of Hoedown. (One of my next videos will be Foreplay/Long Time by Boston, and you will see and hear it in that one too. I'm waiting for my friend to finish the singing.)
Great sound engineering. Would it be possible that you make the hydra-synth patch downloadable somewhere?
I'm not completely happy with them yet, and I sometimes think about putting together some patches to sell (especially on the Prophet Rev2). Although I would need to learn more about how to hook the HydraSynth up with a computer, etc. In addition to what's in the video, I'll add that I use the Steiner-Parker filter, I added just a hint of Flanger, and I'm using a single Oscillator on both layers.
@@TaurusTarkus That is really interesting. I think you have just about nailed all the sounds. All of your videos are great and it must feel very liberating and empowering to be able to trigger the moog bass sound, rhodes sound, strings and brass "live". I don't have a hydrasound (yet!). With the brass sound, I am just wondering why it makes a difference to have both oscillators on different layers, rather than on the same patch? Is it because the envelope settings are different? Also, my best recreations of this sound have been using two sawtooth oscillators. Do you use 2 sawtooths on the Hydrasynth? Thanks for creating the video!
@@mikeycraig3684 Thanks for the kind words! I think a lot of what we like in a sound like this brass sound is the phasing of the two oscillators against each other. We get a lot of that on a MiniMoog, and we don't get a lot of it on more "digital sounding" instruments. We get some this phasing when we start to detune two oscillators, and we can get a richer sound by having more differences between the two sounds. (Yes, two sawtooth waveforms for this sound.) While the Brass 1 and Brass 2 sounds of a CS-80 sound similar, they are pretty different. On the GX-80, most of the Envelope settings for both the filter and the amp are different, as is the Resonance, there's a sine wave on one, the touch response is different... and all those differences give us a more complex sound. We can do similar complexities on any synthesizer that has layers. If you don't yet have the GX-80, you may want to get it before getting a HydraSynth. The GX-80 is not as easy to work with, but it is inexpensive and may give better CS-80 sounds than the HydraSynth. (I say "may" because I'm still experimenting.)
@@TaurusTarkus that is s good idea. I will try the Cherry Audio VST and take a look at how the 2 brass patches differ and how they interact. In general, there seems to be a brilliance/brightness to the hydrasynth sound, similar to the CS80. I’ve tried other analog synths (moog, DSI, korg, roland, behringer) but even with the filter fully open, they all seem to be missing that satisfying brilliance to the sound that i hear on your 2 layer recreation on the hydrasynth. In addition to the detuned phasing, there is a sense of body or fullness. There seems to be perhaps some harmonics generated that give that intense brightness, almost like a built-in exciter. You are right, the hydrasynth preset is not quite right, there seems to be some sort of aliasing or artefacts when the 2 oscillators follow the exact same filter/amp envelopes. I will explore the Cherry Audio VST and report back 😊